#tc-updates | Ravenholdt | Page 8

strong surge Oct 31, 2016, 6:19 PM

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sorry for flood

marble cosmos Oct 31, 2016, 6:24 PM

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simC gives me roughly 20k less

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on both build.. Ep/eX OR ep/AP

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Also, i could be just bad and get wrong numbers from wowhead

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Anyone got a decent string for 3MA relic?

silver jungle Oct 31, 2016, 6:47 PM

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main_hand=the_kingslayers,id=128870,bonus_id=741,gem_id=142310/137543/136718/0,relic_id=0/1517:1727/1517:1727

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try that, I have like 15 sims open tho, so I might have picked the wrong one

modern stream Oct 31, 2016, 11:08 PM

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I assume people that are familiar with APLs know the specifics, which is why I ask here, is it true that in the assassination artifact that the FoK trait actually increases agonizing poison's damage and thus is better than the master alchemist trait?

silent zinc Nov 1, 2016, 7:26 AM

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So.. What's going on with the newest SimC build? Multiple reports of EP/AP having a significant dps drop after updating the sim, weird stat weights, etc?

uneven crag Nov 1, 2016, 9:09 AM

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There is definitely something fishy about the EP/AP APL. I sim 386K, but yesterday I did 427K on Nythendra.

stuck sapphire Nov 1, 2016, 9:44 AM

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well you can change the apl if you want also remember that crit is a main stat for sin, what in a real time enviroment often results in higher dps then the arithmetical middle of 10.000 simulations

wild leaf Nov 1, 2016, 9:58 AM

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what is apl ?

stuck sapphire Nov 1, 2016, 10:05 AM

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action priority list, it determinates when a ability is used

rigid flicker Nov 1, 2016, 10:28 AM

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guys,im kinda new with SIMC stuffs, i got question about this:

actions.cds+=/goremaws_bite,if=!buff.shadow_dance.up&((combo_points.deficit>=4-(time<10)*2&energy.deficit>50+talent.vigor.enabled*25-(time>=10)*15)|target.time_to_die<8)

how can SIMC perform arithmetic on boolean stuffs? o.o

i mean for example this part:

4-(time<10)*2

if time<10 is true then it return true right? so what simc do with it?
4-true*2
whats result? 😄

keen epoch Nov 1, 2016, 10:32 AM

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true = 1; false = 0

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4-1*2 = 2

rigid flicker Nov 1, 2016, 10:35 AM

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oh now i get it 😃

river nymph Nov 1, 2016, 11:57 AM

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@manic pulsar hi you mentioned earlier that it's a dps to loss to pandemic the first rupture. It's seems counter intuitive though if i vanish and get the bonus damage on a pandemic rupture

manic pulsar Nov 1, 2016, 12:18 PM

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Yeah, but on the other hand you dump combo points and energy into a low-efficiency Rupture first

marble cosmos Nov 1, 2016, 12:26 PM

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So garrote->mut->vanish->arcane torrent rup?

novel sentinel Nov 1, 2016, 12:26 PM

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For opener?

river nymph Nov 1, 2016, 12:39 PM

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@manic pulsar so you are saying the first rupture should be a 6 point rupture and then vanish rupture is used once the first full rupture is in pandemic range?

wicked lark Nov 1, 2016, 12:56 PM

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most likely he's reffering to using the first 6 cp for vanish rupture, so no pandemic rupture

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can't imagine such a big delay on vanish

novel sentinel Nov 1, 2016, 12:58 PM

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You should start fights with a 3-5 CP rupture

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then go for a 6 cp vanish rupture

wicked lark Nov 1, 2016, 1:10 PM

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thats what most people are doing, just read what skasch wrote 😉

autumn lava Nov 1, 2016, 1:15 PM

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think wisdom is now you should have your first rupture be 6pt and vanish it

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don't bother pandemic

rain lance Nov 1, 2016, 1:46 PM

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Just to make sure everyone is clear on the rules regarding opener discussions (useless as they are), show numbers. Saying "I do X" isn't useful, show us numbers, napkin math, simc, or similar or your comment will be deleted.

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mortal wing Nov 1, 2016, 1:51 PM

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So do we have any real answers about the wierd sims since update yet?

marble cosmos Nov 1, 2016, 2:09 PM

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^plz

modern stream Nov 1, 2016, 2:21 PM

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Will the commands on this server be updated soon, most things seem outdated, relic spreadsheet, trinket sims etc. Im getting a bit jealous of ret paladin sims where everything is up to date even kara trinkets :D

stuck sapphire Nov 1, 2016, 3:10 PM

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some inside on Ring of Collapsing Futures. 1. the damage ability does not scale, its 43k (roundet) for every itemlvl. 2. the ability has 40 m range 3. using the ring every 30 secounds (when the 15 secound debuff expire) equals ~1,4k dps increese (save option) however it seems to be more beneficial to stack 2 times makes the dps gain ~1,9k. the ability can crit crit damage is 2x base damage. 4. the 5 minute cooldown resets when leaving the dream on xavius 5. the chance to trigger the cooldown seems to be ~5-10% (low sample size (~50 times with buff)).

grizzled grotto Nov 1, 2016, 4:45 PM

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Cloak can also remove the debuff, if you want to use it and don't have any incoming dmg you need cloak for

brittle umbra Nov 1, 2016, 6:51 PM

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Hm the speed scaling "fix" is really weird. The one with Thraxi's.

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Simming with Hit&Run adds 5k dps to Run Through. So that's 333 dps per 1% speed. And what, 33 dps per speed rating?

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Atm the RunSpeed scale factor shows 0,3 to 0.7 something. Not sure what that means.

chrome sun Nov 1, 2016, 6:56 PM

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When in doubt, dive into the code. I'm not 100% sure if Navv has fixed what needed fixing.

plush relic Nov 1, 2016, 6:57 PM

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speed rating with it is broken atm yeah

brittle umbra Nov 1, 2016, 6:57 PM

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He closed the issue tho.

chrome sun Nov 1, 2016, 6:57 PM

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Specifically, see the comments here:

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/430115cd293c73cc4e998e42f4b74ef4526503c5

GitHub

[Rogue] Enable run speed scaling if Thraxi's Tricksy Treads are ...

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

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I've been pretty occupied at $realJob, so I haven't been paying as much attention as I should to the rogue module, but I think that there are still things to be done. Happy to be corrected by someone who implemented the needful, though.

winged lily Nov 1, 2016, 6:58 PM

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wait, what'd they do to the boots?

brittle umbra Nov 1, 2016, 7:00 PM

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Yeah. Hmm. So it also needs to be tweaked in another part?

chrome sun Nov 1, 2016, 7:00 PM

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@brittle umbra - I believe so - the reference to the nebulous "DR formula" on speed was what I saw.

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@winged lily - some people were interested in seeing stat weights for run-speed, with the Thraxis legendary. It needed to be explicitly enabled on the rogue module, but even after doing that, I think there's some other work to be done.

winged lily Nov 1, 2016, 7:01 PM

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ahh, i see

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thanks

brittle umbra Nov 1, 2016, 7:13 PM

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But wasn't speed orginally used to make you cross "distances" faster in certain fight styles and thus increasing dps? Within the sim i mean.

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But we have never had this before where speed acts like a pure dps booster like a secondary stat.

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So wouldn't entirely new code need to be written? Or does it work regardless maybe.

latent wraith Nov 2, 2016, 12:56 AM

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does avoidance stack multiplicatevly or additively with feint?

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so if i have 10% avoidance and feint, does it reduce my aoe damage by 60% or 55%?

chrome sun Nov 2, 2016, 1:10 AM

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great question. i'm not sure.

silent zinc Nov 2, 2016, 4:56 AM

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Can anyone here knowledgeable with SimC explain why the 710-02 update drastically changed my stat weights and EP/AP dps?

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I just want to understand if AP was "fixed" in the simulation, or if there is an error somewhere? It's now showing Exsang as a ~10-11k dps increase -- As well as shifting my stat weights entirely when simmed as EP/AP (Mast > Crit > Versa 710-01) vs (Versa > Mast > Crit 710-02).

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 8:24 AM

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@silent zinc Do you have insignia or not ?

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Send to me your reports 😃

silver jungle Nov 2, 2016, 9:05 AM

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I just sent a couple, not huge disparity in stat weights like Laurix was experiencing. But slightly different. Assassination seems to be simming quite a bit higher than in game testing would indicate also.

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:07 AM

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don't do 10k iterations

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you got 0.39 error

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so your results

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8.77, 8.90, 8.96

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can be anything else within a 0.39 range

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same for the other one with 9.04 9.18 9.19

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Mastery ~= Vers ~= Crit

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Vers ~= Crit ~= Mastery

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it's even said in the "Ranking" thing

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use target_error 0.05% at least

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always check the error and your results

silver jungle Nov 2, 2016, 9:11 AM

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I'll change the amt of interations and resim, thanks.

hidden crow Nov 2, 2016, 9:21 AM

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does anyone know why my single target sims have me using fan of knives? just switched to sin. i do not have legendary cloak that buffs fan of knives

severe ridge Nov 2, 2016, 9:41 AM

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insignia is simming twice as good to what i get ingame

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:41 AM

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yes

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I'm fixing it, I was away the past days

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its dmg are computed post mitigation

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but there might be something sneaky there

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for the moment I'll let it like this

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📎 PostFix.png

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should be better now 😃

proper hinge Nov 2, 2016, 9:54 AM

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aight so im not sure what the story is with simcraft, its clearly telling me to dump all my haste in favor of vers/mastery, BUT last i heard i should have roughly 15% haste on my sub rogue. Should just keep haste over what simc tells me or what?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:54 AM

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/4a236c70a0c022174c73d974c5d4fb09392c27c8 @severe ridge 😃

GitHub

[Rogue] Insignia Dmg fix · simulationcraft/simc@4a236c7

Take the dmg post mitigation and pre crit, like it seems to behave in game.

severe ridge Nov 2, 2016, 9:55 AM

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thank you aethys

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:55 AM

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@hidden crow may you give me your report pls ? (the html file)

foggy hull Nov 2, 2016, 9:55 AM

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Do you guys know if using envenom on any cp to keep max uptime on EP is worth it at any point or always 5/6cp?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:56 AM

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@proper hinge it depends on your current rating, try plotting to better see the things. It also depends on ur artifact / relics / gear (especially leggy boots), without report I can't really help and tell if it's a bug or not 😃

proper hinge Nov 2, 2016, 9:58 AM

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whats plotting?

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lul

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 10:02 AM

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the other tab after scaling

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/StatsScaling

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

proper hinge Nov 2, 2016, 10:18 AM

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ok so i finished siming the plot

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a bunch of numbers ey

spare belfry Nov 2, 2016, 11:16 AM

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aethys do u need info about karazhan trinket?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 12:29 PM

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what I need is more time than infos 😛

lofty shadow Nov 2, 2016, 12:30 PM

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Guys I get very different values whether I use the /simc addon or the armory import to get my character info into simulation craft... Which one should I trust more?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 12:30 PM

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@lofty shadow probably due to artifact data, use simc addon to export

lofty shadow Nov 2, 2016, 12:30 PM

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So the addon is more trustworthy?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 12:31 PM

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@marble garnet not the place to ask, try in #228878985210101760 or elsewhere

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the addon export correctly the artifact data yes @lofty shadow

lofty shadow Nov 2, 2016, 12:31 PM

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alright thank you 😃

stiff mortar Nov 2, 2016, 1:43 PM

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Does Shadowmeld allow you to get the nightsalker buff from a rupture? IE: could i shadowmeld and then hit rupture for the bonus dmg?

marble cosmos Nov 2, 2016, 1:45 PM

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@pseudo grove

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can we trust 3 MA relic simC for now? dont want to loose 2 880rupture ones 😦 ty

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 1:46 PM

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no

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APL wasn't updated and Skasch said he'll look at

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if nothing changes, I'll end to take a look

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and no @stiff mortar ^^

stiff mortar Nov 2, 2016, 1:47 PM

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ty

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 1:49 PM

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sneak peek rogue profiles in Nighthold gear :)
there is a shit ton of mastery everywhere and the bonuses are really good as Subtlety

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📎 wbsub.png

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I tried to itemize as much as I could Exsg & Otl

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but wasn't easy since there is basically Mastery everywhere

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or Haste

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later isn't bad for Otl but for Exsg it's a bit meh

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nighthold profiles are located here :

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/legion-dev/profiles/Tier19M_NH

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

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all bonuses should be handled, I still have to double check them

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also, I'll have to update the APL (especially Subtlety)

plush relic Nov 2, 2016, 1:50 PM

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is that with mythic nighthold gear or 875 w/ tierset?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 1:51 PM

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if you have any idea, feel free to send 😃

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mythic nighthold (900), not the 885 one

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not sure if we'll do T19H for Nighthold, probably

muted field Nov 2, 2016, 1:53 PM

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@pseudo grove Is the sub variance really that large? In your sneak peek, it looks almost as large as Outlaw's.... what's the cause of that?

marble cosmos Nov 2, 2016, 1:53 PM

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@pseudo grove about interations that u said, whats best option? and target error?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 1:57 PM

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it's not as high as you could think @muted field

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📎 variance.png

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and it's mostly due to weaponmaster gb bug

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because of the low number of iterations

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@marble cosmos I prefer using target_error, 0.1% is fast

muted field Nov 2, 2016, 1:58 PM

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Ahhhh..... weaponmaster makes a lot of sense as well, thanks.

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 1:58 PM

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you can take 0.3%

white trail Nov 2, 2016, 2:12 PM

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@pseudo grove Nighthold is without legendary, correct?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 2:15 PM

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everything is without legendary

frosty ruin Nov 2, 2016, 2:17 PM

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can you do a quick sim with your outlaw NH profile with SnD & Nightblooming Frond trinket?

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 2:18 PM

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Please don't ask people to sim things for you, the code is on github and you can sim yourself if you are curious about a specific result

frosty ruin Nov 2, 2016, 2:19 PM

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currently at work, will do later

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 2:19 PM

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Yeah I get that people can't always sim this minute and thats why they ask but sim requests tend to clog up this channel which I'd like to avoid

latent wraith Nov 2, 2016, 2:40 PM

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since nobody seems to have an answer for the avoidance question i'm going to find someone to test it with and post results here

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 2:41 PM

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I suspect multiplicative because historically that is how things work but I haven't tested recently

latent wraith Nov 2, 2016, 2:42 PM

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tbh it would seem too strong but on fights like ursoc i feel like i only get a third of the aoe damage when i feint (with 13.5% avoidance)

wild quiver Nov 2, 2016, 3:19 PM

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If i have legendary boots for ass, is 3 vendetaa relics that much stronger, then the 3 880 rupture crit ones i have?

plush relic Nov 2, 2016, 3:21 PM

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Even with 2 with LEg boots my vendetta/kingsbane are almost always up at the same time.

wild quiver Nov 2, 2016, 3:23 PM

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have you noticed it being a big dps increase Rable? i only got a 860 and 840 ones

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 3:25 PM

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this is more of a "feelycraft" discussion and not really appropriate for this channel

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the answer to questions about is X>Y is to use the tools developed for this purpose

plush relic Nov 2, 2016, 3:27 PM

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Last night was my first run with 2 MA relics and it was noticeable. also ^ what Fiery said

old summit Nov 2, 2016, 3:38 PM

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May I ask what's causing sub to scale so much better than the other specs (apart from Blizzard's apparent love for splashing mastery on everything)?

strong surge Nov 2, 2016, 3:46 PM

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As far as I can see trinkets are not implemented yet, so the results are far from final

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Cd trinket affects shadowblades and that is pretty weak cd

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How is deeper stratagem so strong even with 4 set bonus, tried to use anticipation and its much weaker even so cp loss is much less

icy mango Nov 2, 2016, 4:19 PM

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Ds is strong because of the 10% finisher damage on top of the extra % provided by the finality trait.

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So having a 6cp finality proced nb for an extra 10 seconds allows you to get much more eviscerates which also benefit from finality

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 4:22 PM

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hence sneak peek @strong surge

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but expect sub be strong 😄

brazen comet Nov 2, 2016, 4:26 PM

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Sub will be strong, Outlaw will be close, happy days.

small mountain Nov 2, 2016, 4:41 PM

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Assassination will also scale very well

elfin remnant Nov 2, 2016, 4:48 PM

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its 1 legendary or 2? what legendary do you use for sub?

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im already siming myself for 479K

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 5:06 PM

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0 legendary

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900 nighthold gear

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and the trinkets effect aren't in

fresh veldt Nov 2, 2016, 5:08 PM

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for assissination, MP scales better with mastery right?

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would it over take EP in NH gear?

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 5:08 PM

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we can't say

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yet

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I'm still wondering things

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like I would like to have more feedback on the Assa APL

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and I have to tests things on the Sub one

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and there might be some worth things to do in Outlaw aswell

royal sonnet Nov 2, 2016, 6:00 PM

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Hey Aethys, I've noticed that on AoE situations (like high m+ packs), a small change to the sub APL leads to a small DPS increase : "actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance
" instead of "actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance,if=combo_points<=1"

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I did not run a lot of tests, but this is true for 6ennemies/100s/patchwerk with the T19H gear

civic umbra Nov 2, 2016, 6:23 PM

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Hey everyone. I just got my legendary wrists for my outlaw rogue. I had a couple questions. I simmed ghostly strike vs quickdraw, and simcraft kept giving me a very slight (1%) edge with ghostly strike.. I checked the APL and it seems like pistol shot damage and blunderbuss damage was very low.

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 6:23 PM

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ty @royal sonnet will take a look at later

civic umbra Nov 2, 2016, 6:23 PM

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I'm 883 equipped with 41.1% crit

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but im not sure crit matters that much

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 6:23 PM

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@civic umbra be sure to use latest version

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http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

civic umbra Nov 2, 2016, 6:24 PM

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I play on a mac, is the 10/4/16 the latest release on a mac?

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nvm found a 10/30, sorry

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@pseudo grove thank you! That worked much better haha. It's clear that quickdraw is a dps increase now, by about 4%

pale parrot Nov 2, 2016, 6:59 PM

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is the simcraft program working for rogues? I ask because it says I sim higher with exan, but I def do more damage with AP, i tested it multiple times on a raid dummy, moreover it told me i was simming at 631k as sub, when my sub daggers are level 0 lol

potent comet Nov 2, 2016, 7:00 PM

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how old is your simcraft?

pale parrot Nov 2, 2016, 7:03 PM

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i have the lastest nightly build

zinc oriole Nov 2, 2016, 7:04 PM

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Where can I find enchant ids?

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All I see on wowhead is the Id for the firmukas

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Formulas

deep turtle Nov 2, 2016, 7:05 PM

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does someone know, if simcraft is counting the nightbane chestbuff for the trinkets?`

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 7:10 PM

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not yet @deep turtle

deep turtle Nov 2, 2016, 7:14 PM

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okay

icy mango Nov 2, 2016, 7:14 PM

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@zinc oriole you can just type (without quotes): "enchant_id=200matery" or whatever Stat you want

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 7:30 PM

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Do someone have Toe Knee's Promise ?

wheat forum Nov 2, 2016, 7:54 PM

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i have one

deep turtle Nov 2, 2016, 7:57 PM

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holy crap

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simcraft says, the 860 crit trinket from kara is 1.4k dps ahead of 880 ursoc trinket

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without counting the 30% buff from the nightbane chest?!

zinc oriole Nov 2, 2016, 8:04 PM

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@icy mango thanks

daring spoke Nov 2, 2016, 8:13 PM

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@pseudo grove You da best

calm root Nov 2, 2016, 9:05 PM

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Alright guys I have a question for all of you. I am trying to compile a spreadsheet that shows how each DPS spec gets stronger with their artifact

With the new artifact system, there is a lot of gating behind AP and AK in order to fill out the artifact but how important is it...?
Some classes are pretty strong without their artifacts filled out completely while others need 25+ traits in order to achieve a majority of the 'power' that is held within the artifact.
Does anyone have compiled data on how many point in each specs artifact will give them the best bang for their buck? (Hope this makes sense)

For example: On the feral druid guide, it mentions that once you reach 19 points you have unlocked 85ish percent of the power that is available in the artifact. This is without the +X% damage increase at the end

P.S. Please @ me because I will be trying to compile this for every class and may not be looking at this channel 😃 Thank you all in advance!!

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:06 PM

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oh this is a cool project and something I've definitely been wondering about

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:06 PM

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i mean

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i wouldnt' call it hard data necessarily

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:07 PM

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@calm root what would you like from us? Just artifact paths or actual sim results?

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:07 PM

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but

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23/24 in assassination and 24 in sub are pretty large markers

brazen comet Nov 2, 2016, 9:08 PM

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I would start with Stjern's and Riff's guides

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That's just something that came as an obvious.

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:08 PM

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well kinda, assn is probably over 95% of the benefit at 24, sub keeps scaling up to 33

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:08 PM

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Riff's guide for sub artifact progression.
Stjern's for outlaw/sin

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yeah, was just gonna say that, @rain lance

brazen comet Nov 2, 2016, 9:09 PM

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But with Riff's guide, there's 3 ways to go

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:09 PM

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and the traits it gets from 24-30 are big ones

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:09 PM

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sub gets even better after 24, where assassination kinda stops after that~

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i just meant that Akaari's was a big one

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like, real big

calm root Nov 2, 2016, 9:09 PM

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@rain lance More along the lines of if you were to get to this point in your artifact tree then you have a majority of the power that is contained within the artifact

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For example the mages have said that for frost you need to get this golden dragon

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:10 PM

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yeah I can generate some results for you

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:10 PM

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outlaw's pretty low.
like, 20 before anything after that isn't a massive deal

calm root Nov 2, 2016, 9:10 PM

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like Arcane only needs 11 points while frost needs 23

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:11 PM

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definitely be a nice addition for people, @calm root

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:11 PM

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I'm interested in this because I think this is a very underdiscussed balance point

calm root Nov 2, 2016, 9:12 PM

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Getting mixed responses from all the different discords 😃

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Who might be the person to talk to regarding this? (Who was responsible for optimal artifact pathing) 😃

chrome sun Nov 2, 2016, 9:16 PM

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The AMR people did some good work here.

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Might contact Zoopercat.

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w.r.t. DPS value per-point; greedy paths through artifact progression

winged lily Nov 2, 2016, 9:17 PM

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^

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:17 PM

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I'm setting up a quick sim and I'll have some results for in a couple hours

calm root Nov 2, 2016, 9:18 PM

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No worries. Feel free to contact me directly if you have more information 😃

pseudo grove Nov 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

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Feel free to ask me if you need something 😛

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can do whatever you want to see with CombinX

minor anvil Nov 2, 2016, 9:40 PM

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@rain lance what gear are you using for each trait level? Just a stat skeleton (i.e. X amount of each secondary and y agility) or the current simc defaults?

rain lance Nov 2, 2016, 9:45 PM

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I'm using the T19H profiles and removing relics so we can just see the impact of trait progression

mossy grotto Nov 2, 2016, 9:49 PM

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Anyone with trinket sims that include the karazhan trinkets?

zinc oriole Nov 2, 2016, 11:17 PM

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Does it make a difference if you use normalized stat weights or not in your pawn string?

manic bramble Nov 3, 2016, 12:31 AM

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I don't think it does but I tend not to

stiff star Nov 3, 2016, 1:02 AM

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is there any math between old war and prolonged power?

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:03 AM

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sim it, for example except on short fight prolonged power is better for me 😃

stiff star Nov 3, 2016, 1:03 AM

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how do i changed my pot? sorry im a noob

dire fern Nov 3, 2016, 1:13 AM

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would this be the channel to ask why some of my sims are looking the way they are?

rain lance Nov 3, 2016, 1:17 AM

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most of the time yes

next wave Nov 3, 2016, 3:58 AM

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@pseudo grove looking at your updated Sims. I'm still confused why people keep referring to sin as "better". it seems that they are all pretty close, and if anything sub is out performing them both at higher levels.

#

are you currently collecting gear for more simming of sub?

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:04 AM

#

Posted this in simple questions but got no answer. Figured there's more knowledgable people here anyway

#

865 appendages is doing 2% more overall dmg than my 835 fan, did something change?
it's reliable too
just did five 5 minute sessions with each trinket at the training dummy and my appendages has beaten my fan every time

#

i'm still currently testing it as i type this, and appendages seems to be much more reliable

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:05 AM

#

It's expected that it does more, its a difference of 1123 primary stat vs 986 mastery.

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:07 AM

#

Are you saying it's expected that the appendages is supposed to do more? Or it's expected for the fan to do more?

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:07 AM

#

It's expected for appendages to do more

#

because the raw stats on the fan blow the appendages out of the water.

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:08 AM

#

You're confusing me. You're saying it's expected for appendages to do more but fan blows it out of the water because of the agility

#

Wasn't there a rebalancing of trinkets in 7.1?

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:09 AM

#

I don't understand how you could find this confusing.

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:09 AM

#

"It's expected for appendages to do more dps, but fan blows it out of the water because of raw stats"

#

it conflicts itself

#

if fan blows it out of the water then how is appendages expected to do more

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:09 AM

#

The damage done by appendages will always be more because its more of the budget. 1100 primary +fan damage > 986 mastery + appendage damage

#

You gotta combine em

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:10 AM

#

i think i see what you're saying now

#

so the raw stats alone on fan makes the appendages proc negligible?

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:11 AM

#

Yep

#

Appendage wasn't touched in the rebalancing

#

it's not really THAT much of a difference between the two.

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:11 AM

#

hmmm

#

i wonder if the difference is enough to keep fan on, if i put on appendages my ilvl goes up by 3

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:12 AM

#

that's just a number.

#

Always go for the best dps

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:13 AM

#

so fan is more dps even though it contributes less to overall damage percentage?

#

that's wild

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:13 AM

#

Not really when you consider our secondaries don't touch our primary stats in terms of value

#

What spec you are matters as well

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:14 AM

#

i'm sub, so the mastery is nice from appendages but 1.1k agi definitely outweighs it

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:14 AM

#

best to sim with both to be certain

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:14 AM

#

i have, fan is only 900dmg increase

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:14 AM

#

yeah that sounds about right

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:15 AM

#

so like at that point is it even worth dropping ilvl for that minimal damage gain

crisp holly Nov 3, 2016, 4:15 AM

#

always in my opinion

#

I see no reason why ilvl should matter so much to you.

graceful sun Nov 3, 2016, 4:15 AM

#

true

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alright thx for conversating with me, i appreciate it

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 8:06 AM

#

@next wave Asn isn't bad atm, it's fine, the thing is it's useless to dive this spec while you can invest on Sub

#

well, it's my opinion, sub is slightly behind unless NH/Boots/Lucky TF

#

and appendages was hotfixed 2 times during 7.0

#

making it good

austere dove Nov 3, 2016, 8:07 AM

#

Hey guys, what do we think is Relic Ilvl better than Traits? i have a 870 Relic with energetic stabbing vs a 855 relic with 5% nigthblade damage?

#

now shadowcraft shows me its like a huge dps loss to change is that correct?

elfin remnant Nov 3, 2016, 8:08 AM

#

@pseudo grove

#

weapon master and goremaw still bugged

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hFmyqHnaT3KvVYjk#type=damage-done&fight=6&source=6&translate=true
my yesterday log

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 8:12 AM

#

yes I know, it's on simc for a while

#

and I didn't removed it since it's not fixed yet 😄

solar aurora Nov 3, 2016, 10:15 AM

#

hey all, what are the stat percentages for Arogue?

rigid jetty Nov 3, 2016, 10:21 AM

#

@solar aurora you should ask that questions in general or general-moderated.. i think there you will find some help

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 10:32 AM

#

📎 MasterAssassin.png

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Master Assassin issue should be fixed in next update

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aswell as small dps increase 😃

#

this one emphazise more the issue 😃

#

📎 MasterAssassinComplete.png

stuck sapphire Nov 3, 2016, 10:50 AM

#

about your argument earlyer, sub seem to have less benefit on most boss fights then assasination (for EN). shouldnt you consider the boss design the big factor for what spec is considered the best?(sry for offtopic)

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 10:57 AM

#

yes that is true @stuck sapphire

#

but that mostly because sub is in fact behind assassination until you got ur artifact complete and/or you got the op leg and/or you're well geared

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 11:30 AM

#

@pseudo grove Regarding your earlier post. What was the issue with MA relic?

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 12:16 PM

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@pseudo grove when can we use this update? rly need to simC the 3MA to know if switching my 885relics or not 😃

#

and tysm for the work

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 12:27 PM

#

I need to fix a bit the Exsg rotation

#

probably this afternoon

#

the issue @tough goblet was mostly if you had MA relics but no MA traits

#

after 3+ traits, it was mostly fine

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 12:32 PM

#

@pseudo grove and by the parses u did, how many ilvl will worth to drop relic for 3 MA? +/-

#

ppl were saying 30ish.. u have any concern?

tardy dirge Nov 3, 2016, 12:33 PM

#

@pseudo grove SIMC keeps putting my best stat at Vers when Im Sin running EP/AP. It sims highest even with my mastery way down to like 72% and crit down to like 39% and 11.82% vers vs keeping my master over 100% and crit at like 45%. I am worried that simc is wrong since I always thought we need to keep mastery/crit much higher for EP/AP

#

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Supersparks/advanced

World of Warcraft

Supersparks @ Bleeding Hollow - Community - World of Warcraft

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 12:34 PM

#

can't say @marble cosmos this is more "feelycrafting" ^^
The only right answer I see is sim to figure it 😃

#

u're Exsg on the armory

#

just link me the report you think is wrong

tardy dirge Nov 3, 2016, 12:35 PM

#

sorry i changed to that to try it

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 12:35 PM

#

and I'll look even if I don't think there is a bug

#

versa is a good stat.

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 12:35 PM

#

yeah :p
Im waiting with the 3MA on bag for this answear lol... tysm will wait this push so

tardy dirge Nov 3, 2016, 12:35 PM

#

how do i link a simc report

#

exang sims lower than ep/ap for me

#

i thought maybe I should run exang since i had so much vers wearing this gear

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 12:36 PM

#

host the html, either on the internet or pm me it

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 12:58 PM

#

props to @arctic raft

#

found a funny bug 😄

#

📎 Screen_Shot_2016-11-03_at_13.57.43.png

#

he was wondering why outlaw was so high 😄

small mountain Nov 3, 2016, 1:02 PM

#

sub boots bis outlaw, confirmed

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:03 PM

#

the bug is sneaky

#

but navv found it (similar thing happened somehow for DK)

#

will be fixed soon

#

can someone test Insignia with Hemo & Kingsbane please ?

small mountain Nov 3, 2016, 1:14 PM

#

test what

wicked lark Nov 3, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

thanks god, rip outlaw 😮

small mountain Nov 3, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

i can after rumble wq

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

ty @small mountain

#

this bug was only if you were weraing ssw as outlaw, I never did that on my tests tho @wicked lark 😃

small mountain Nov 3, 2016, 1:16 PM

#

I wish assassin boots would reduce AR cd as outlaw tbh

wicked lark Nov 3, 2016, 1:17 PM

#

oh ok @pseudo grove

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:18 PM

#

hemo/kingsbane was tested, works on hemo, doesn't on kingsbane (was a double check)

#

ty for ur tests

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 1:37 PM

#

@pseudo grove just did the testing with new version... stills trange man..

With very good Ep/AP stats EX still pulling ahead
not even 3MA relic can beat EX

#

ANd dummy parses go different

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:39 PM

#

because EX is strnog

#

the current APL is really optimized

#

I'm not sure a player can play that well tbh

#

that's why the next one will probably show a dps decrease as exsg but will be way more "human proof"

plush relic Nov 3, 2016, 1:41 PM

#

wouldnt you want to keep the most optimized apl though even if its hard to reach those numbers, and work on optimizing others?

#

and i definitly think the ap sim is off and its not the apl issue of lining up vendetta with kingsbane, i simmed a 3 minute fight with 0 variance and then looked at logs and was doing ~40k higher dps than the sim

#

and i dont have 3 vendetta relics so i wasnt lining anything up

#

and no sin based legendaries

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:44 PM

#

it's the same debate as the warrior one

#

what's the aim to show something that is almost impossible in game ?

#

they have this debate

plush relic Nov 3, 2016, 1:45 PM

#

i guess for people to try and mimic the apl as best they can

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:45 PM

#

for the Arms spec

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 1:45 PM

#

i rly dont get wthy AP is much worst

#

even with good stats

#

:p

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:46 PM

#

if you're sure something is wrong on the AP APL

#

just tell me what it does wrong

plush relic Nov 3, 2016, 1:46 PM

#

i can take a look and compare with the parse

#

i mean im not the best sin player by any means but there's probably something off there if there was that significant a difference

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:47 PM

#

maybe

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 1:47 PM

#

nah.. im not even close to sure... just cant understand why

#

new version is ok for kara trinkets?

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:47 PM

#

it depends

marble cosmos Nov 3, 2016, 1:48 PM

#

hmm

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 1:49 PM

#

currently

#

Exsg is 2% behind

#

and AP is 0.5% ahead

#

I'm talking about New One vs Current Default

#

I prefer going from there and fixing the APL based on suggestion

#

aswell as documenting it

#

else it's a pain to improve/debug

tardy dirge Nov 3, 2016, 2:11 PM

#

SIMC is more accurate than the SIMDPS on Wow Progress? the two don't seem to agree

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 2:13 PM

#

lol

plush relic Nov 3, 2016, 2:13 PM

#

havent heard that one before

rain lance Nov 3, 2016, 2:13 PM

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wowprogress's simdps thing a total mess, they do super low iteration sims on gear snapshots will tend to be highly noisy and basically useless

tardy dirge Nov 3, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

ok thanks for confirming, I was leaning towards trusting SIMC

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

also 450s fight length

#

etc... etc...

#

and most of the time, build are outdated because things changes a lot

uncut magnet Nov 3, 2016, 2:30 PM

#

I bet I'm not the first one to ask but why is Simc giving me so high value on versatility all of the sudden as AP

#

is the latest build simming just fine or is there something wrong with it

#

I guess thats my real question

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

it's fine as long as you know what you're doing

uncut magnet Nov 3, 2016, 2:51 PM

#

allright then my stats are weirdly close to each other

summer anchor Nov 3, 2016, 4:04 PM

#

Is there a way I can apply a poison debuff to all targets as a static debuff? Trying to sim FoK vs mutilate at 2 targets and Venomous Wounds seem to be throwing it off since I don't know how to make the sim cycle deadly poison onto the off-target.

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 4:05 PM

#

mutilate,cycle_targets=1,if=...

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 4:08 PM

#

@pseudo grove @rain lance Just some info for the Theorycrafters: Bloodstained Hankchief - Is modified by Elaborate Planning and Agonizing Poison. Is not Modified by Hemorrhage, Nightstalker or Exanguinate.

rain lance Nov 3, 2016, 4:08 PM

#

perfect, danke

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 4:09 PM

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ty, do you have logs about it ? 😃

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 4:10 PM

#

I can make one. sure. How would you like me to structure it?

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 4:10 PM

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as you want

#

as long as we can see the modifier effect

#

😄

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 4:10 PM

#

Would you prefer Test dummy or boss.

#

ok

#

I'll just test dummy it

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 4:10 PM

#

dummy is enough

summer anchor Nov 3, 2016, 4:14 PM

#

actions.build_ex+=/mutilate,cycle_targets=1,if=combo_points.deficit>=1&cooldown.garrote.remains>2&!debuff.deadly_poison.up

Reference to unknown buff/debuff deadly_poison by player Hbit

How do I check if deadly poison is up?

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 4:17 PM

#

dot.deadly_poison_dot

#

I assume

#

would have to double check it tho

next wave Nov 3, 2016, 4:57 PM

#

@pseudo grove ty for your input on the Sims. I'm 300k ap away from 3rd outlaw dragon, and was looking into sub to dump points next as I have some hot hot legfos (bubble necklace and cyphurs super secret ring). I'm do some more research on sub and see how it pans out in a few weeks.

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

new Asn APL is out

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

o.o

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

if you could try it and tell me what looks wrong for you

#

would be nice especially for Exsg 😃

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

👌

raven ginkgo Nov 3, 2016, 5:09 PM

#

Hi, I have a question, in sin rogue, the AP level up damage of the poison only, or the poison and bleeding? Because when i put my mouse over the stack of AP, it's said that it's increase only the damage of poison, and a friend tell me that increase damage of bleeding AND poison, but I've don't see difference on boss

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:36 PM

#

the poison ups your dmg on all abilities

kindred hawk Nov 3, 2016, 5:38 PM

#

How do you know when you should from 3x +Rupture DMG to 3x Vendetta CD relics?

#

How much ilvl loss is acceptable?

arctic raft Nov 3, 2016, 5:44 PM

#

is there any way to test nighthold trinkets ?

#

or they are not yet on ptr?

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:45 PM

#

@kindred hawk there isn't really hard data on this yet (people are working on it, though).

i can tell you that i went from 865, 855 rupture dmg & 845 Malch to 3x vendetta (845-855) and saw about a 20-30k hike in dps.

kindred hawk Nov 3, 2016, 5:52 PM

#

I have 865, 860, and 870 (Mast. Alch) and have 865 Ven, 855 Ven, and 850 Ven, thoughts?

#

Also do you delay using Exsang (if Bleed) and KB with Vendetta?

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:53 PM

#

switch to 3x

#

and, yes, you pop everything together with 3x

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 5:53 PM

#

@pseudo grove @rain lance Bloodstained Handkerchief testing. Put it all in a doc for you. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OwXV8rt7QQUBZ5rBjQugsmLYjP_qyuK7_fdcgCJKJsI/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Report

Bloodstained Handkerchief Mechanics Asassination: (I had Memento of Angerboda on) Modified by: Agonizing poison, master poisoner and mastery buffs. Also modified by Elaborate planning. It seems to also use the casters crit percentage. Ignores: Nightstalker, Hemo and Vendetta. Also cannot sn...

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 5:53 PM

#

ty @tough goblet

tough goblet Nov 3, 2016, 5:53 PM

#

have fun with that guys.

winged lily Nov 3, 2016, 5:54 PM

#

just posted it in general too 😮

dim mountain Nov 3, 2016, 6:12 PM

#

@pseudo grove Regarding the new assa APL, especially with 3 vendetta relics and exsanguinate, it seems to me that the APL isn't trying to use vendetta every 60sec or so. Is it intended?

#

@pseudo grove Here is the html file : http://www.filedropper.com/tesssst_1

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 7:54 PM

#

Vendetta 5.5 60.17sec

#

looks like 60s interval

torn flume Nov 3, 2016, 7:57 PM

#

Aethys does the sin apl with cape start with fok from stealth

#

A crit with cape and nightstalker hits hard

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 7:59 PM

#

hmm, not sure

#

but ty will look at it

torn flume Nov 3, 2016, 8:00 PM

#

Garrote may still be better

#

But fok garrote mut rupture vendetta may utilize more of the energy regeneration from vendetta

dim mountain Nov 3, 2016, 8:05 PM

#

@pseudo grove yeah for AP/Vendetta relics it works as I expected it to work, but not for the Exsanguinate/Vendetta

#

Vendetta 3.8 88.74sec

strong surge Nov 3, 2016, 8:39 PM

#

@pseudo grove Did a few 5 min runs and actually almost no differnce between my dps and what simcraft says, maybe I can do 1-2k more but its not what I expected. I guess I should have used logs instead of damage meter to check that in the first place. My apologies.

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 8:57 PM

#

@dim mountain because it's better to sync with exsg no ?

dim mountain Nov 3, 2016, 9:05 PM

#

I don't know, I would have expected 3 Vendetta relics to sync very well with vanish, and thus delaying exsang/kingsbane for 30sec for each vanish

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 9:25 PM

#

don't think exsang delay is worth at all

#

not for a +30%

#

because you loose too much exsang use

#

those relics aren't good for exsg

#

that's it :/

pseudo grove Nov 3, 2016, 11:10 PM

#

did another couple of small updates to the Assassination APL

#

mostly for Exsg

#

continue to send me feedback 😛

bright sparrow Nov 3, 2016, 11:58 PM

#

Is there a reason that the sub APL doesn't cycle nightblade on multi target by default?

chrome sun Nov 4, 2016, 1:37 AM

#

it probably should; that's an oversight

#

no, it does

#

target_if=max:target.time_to_die

real crag Nov 4, 2016, 1:38 AM

#

So, this may be a more mechanics question than theorycraft but... anyone have a decent grasp of agonising poisons interaction with Poison Knives?

#

I'm trying to calculate its benefit in my opener, however, just looked at a log where I did do in my opener to fill a CP gap and, well, could be completely unrelated, but garrote did a touch less per tick afterwards

shrewd pecan Nov 4, 2016, 6:28 AM

#

anyone know if questing comes up in combatlogs?

#

advanced combat logs maybe?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 6:32 AM

#

target_if= does cycle + you can give a condition. (here to find the unit with the higher TTD)

glacial whale Nov 4, 2016, 7:29 AM

#

Did something change with one of the recent nightly builds? my exsang sims ~12 ish k lower than it did before, and nothing changed with my settings/gear

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 7:49 AM

#

yes

#

Exsg APL is less smart

#

if you have any suggestion, feel free to send it to me 😃 or report it on simc issues

#

also latest nightly doesn't have all tweaks I did yesterday night

#

they're small though

#

Anyway, no way it'll end again in a 70 lines APL. For multiples reasons including the fact that no human can do that well and even if you plug it in on WA or any addon like Ovale/Hekili/EasyRaid, it won't work like on SimC most of the time (mostly because disconnect and the fact that you may delay X or Y)

glacial whale Nov 4, 2016, 7:55 AM

#

Thanks for the answer!

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 7:55 AM

#

and if you really want that, well, maintain it 😛

mighty plaza Nov 4, 2016, 10:28 AM

#

Aethys, do you recommand to pop every single cooldown (vendetta, exh, kingsbane etc...) when off CD even when using vendetta? is this what the APL is doing right now?

fervent locust Nov 4, 2016, 10:29 AM

#

@pseudo grove why is outlaw ahead of sub on Mythic gear Sims? Is it that good on ST after buffs?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 10:30 AM

#

without legs yes

#

even with it's tied

#

but outlaw will not be that good in the upcoming tier unless you got TF because of mastery

#

so much mastery everywhere in nighthold

fervent locust Nov 4, 2016, 10:30 AM

#

If?

#

Tf

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 10:30 AM

#

titanforged

fervent locust Nov 4, 2016, 10:31 AM

#

Alright thank you!

orchid thorn Nov 4, 2016, 11:19 AM

#

Does anyone have 7.1 trinket priority list for assass?

tough inlet Nov 4, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

Got some dope trinket from moroes

#

Seems to be good for assassin but didnt test yet

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 12:12 PM

#

the more modifier you have, the more is effect is good

#

basically

#

except if it no longer works with modifier 😄

shrewd pasture Nov 4, 2016, 12:35 PM

#

Has testing been done for the on use Kara ring? Got one last night

stuck sapphire Nov 4, 2016, 12:39 PM

#

its implemented i think but the dps increese are marginal, i am not sure if the extra effort is worth

shrewd pasture Nov 4, 2016, 12:43 PM

#

Ah, already implemented. K thanks.

tough goblet Nov 4, 2016, 1:06 PM

#

@pseudo grove Touching on what you said earlier about mastery and Outlaw. Are you saying that you need high mastery gear for outlaw to be good?

#

@pseudo grove in NH I mean.

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:09 PM

#

no

#

what I meant was we only have choice between mastery/crit and sometimes haste in NH

#

# gear_ilvl=901.44
# gear_agility=20831
# gear_stamina=30283
# gear_crit_rating=6598
# gear_haste_rating=4777
# gear_mastery_rating=7477
# gear_versatility_rating=788
# gear_armor=2377
# set_bonus=tier19_2pc=1
# set_bonus=tier19_4pc=1```

#

this is the summary of Outlaw

#

and I tried to take everything else than mastery (except for the set, I took 6pc so we can probably lift a bit there)

#

that's the main issue of Outlaw in NH currently

#

spec is fine, itemization is somewhat bad 😉

tough goblet Nov 4, 2016, 1:12 PM

#

I completely agree tho, thats the problem with outlaw this tier as well. Verse/crit is seriously hard to get, thats why we have tons of more people playing Poison Assass instead of bleed. And it seems in NH with mastery gear so prevelent and crit/verse so hard to get. it will be the same

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:13 PM

#

Yes, that's my point 😃

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:14 PM

#

@pseudo grove, any news sims regarding nh?

tough goblet Nov 4, 2016, 1:14 PM

#

@pseudo grove Just judging by your spreadsheet. As much as the bleed spec looks 1%-2% more dps than AP. the dps difference is actually nullified by the readyness of master/crit gear.

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:14 PM

#

i'd love to see them!

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

I could run some, but I have to make the trinket that reduces CDs

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

well wowhead says it is 3 rppm

#

so u can assume that at least by now

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:15 PM

#

most of the code is ready, it's just that I'm busy with another project atm 😛

cyan kelp Nov 4, 2016, 1:18 PM

#

EasyRaid? 😎

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:19 PM

#

^^

#

and yes it's 3rppm @arctic raft

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:20 PM

#

i guess it is best for muti

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:21 PM

#

do not underestime shadow blades (even if during shd will be almost useless with T19 until we figure a good way to handle it) 😃

#

and the good thing as sin, besides AP, is in theory it let you sync Exsg & Vendetta

#

still need to be "discovered" tho

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:21 PM

#

yes. that's why i think it is good

sullen comet Nov 4, 2016, 1:22 PM

#

Wait is the proc rate affected by haste?

#

Guess we dont know for sure

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:23 PM

#

probably

#

but until NH is out, it's guesses

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:23 PM

#

btw 2 questions regarding sub

#

is it possible to estimate how much of a dps increase in % is a shadow blades usage (i.e. run simc with 100% uptime of it)?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:24 PM

#

you can by overriding the cooldown

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:24 PM

#

and so should i use shadow blades on pull when i have bl/potions etc to just get a flat dps increase

#

or should i save it when i have <2 sd charges, so that i get more value from bonus cp?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:25 PM

#

atm, using it directly has been a dps increase

#

but with the upcoming changes, I can't say for sure

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:26 PM

#

because in real world scenario, tbh i feel really starved on sd stacks if i use blades on pull

#

like after 2-3 mins of fight i have to do like 2x6 cp finishers and then use sd

craggy ivy Nov 4, 2016, 1:28 PM

#

Has anyone simmed the Kara trinkets? I'm just curious how they stack up against the trinket 865 trinket list

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:29 PM

#

@arctic raft your idea might be good

#

I'm still playing around, but delaying Shadow Blades until <=1.5 or even <=0.5 charges

#

seems to not be that bad

#

0.4% gain 😛

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 1:30 PM

#

😃

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 1:30 PM

#

still have to tweak it and add TTD condition

warped stag Nov 4, 2016, 1:39 PM

#

has there been any theorycrafting on 2 vs 3 MA relics when you have the legendary boots?

wicked lark Nov 4, 2016, 1:40 PM

#

I don't see why u wouldn't want a 3rd ma relic with boots? u won't have 100% vendetta even with 3 and boots, right?

warped stag Nov 4, 2016, 1:42 PM

#

ye makes sense

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:07 PM

#

interesting @arctic raft delaying Shadow Blades is worth only if you don't have T19 😄

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 2:08 PM

#

do u seem t19 set with alacrity?

#

sim*

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:08 PM

#

no, premed

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 2:08 PM

#

dont u get 2 cp by default from shs?

#

so if u add premed, u gonna get 3+3 cp+ potential to overcap them next gcd

#

when u use finisher

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:09 PM

#

1cp. 2 with talent

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:09 PM

#

yes ik

#

hence the interesting

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 2:09 PM

#

altho +20% haste is weak for sub

#

at least with boots, since u dont need that extra energy regen

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:09 PM

#

oh 2 with t19

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 2:12 PM

#

do u still sim t19 with MoS?

#

master of shadows*

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:13 PM

#

yes

#

it's without boots

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

@pseudo grove what's the changes in 710-02 from 710-01 that makes my dps as sub from 430k to 419k?

arctic raft Nov 4, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

ah okay

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 2:39 PM

#

Thank you @pseudo grove for the new APL 😃

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:40 PM

#

@frozen brook link report

#

insignia ? 😃

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:40 PM

#

yeah

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:40 PM

#

@full girder Exsg still need some tweeaks

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:40 PM

#

i have them

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:40 PM

#

so it's because of insignia

#

previously it was dmg pre-mitigation while it's really post-mitigation

frozen brook Nov 4, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

👍 thanks

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

New apl seems to envenom at 3-6 CPs and rupture at 6 cp. Sometimes 5 cp rupture before 6 cp rupture for exsanguiante. I'm wondering how can I change the apl to use envenom at 4-6 cp and rupture at 5-6 cp. Just curious about how it affects dps.

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

@full girder if you have idea to improve, go ahead, I'm a bit exhausted about it 😄

tough goblet Nov 4, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

@pseudo grove Aeth, how did you model AP's interaction with Zoldyck bracers in your spreadsheet? Does it only interect with bleeds?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:41 PM

#

for envenom, it's the latest part

#

change it from 3 to 4

#

@tough goblet currently it works on poison, kingsbane, bleeds

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 2:43 PM

#

oh I found it

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:43 PM

#

keep me up @full girder if you find some gain as Exsg 😃

#

@arctic raft after intese testing, overall it's a loss

#

it's a gain on a 300s fight

#

but when it changes, it's a loss to delay Shadow Blades

little ice Nov 4, 2016, 2:48 PM

#

@pseudo grove would you be able to give a quick description to how youve got the sin wrists interacting with AP at the moment on simcraft please?

tough goblet Nov 4, 2016, 2:48 PM

#

@pseudo grove but with testing, it has no affect on Agonizing. So for AP build, it can only affect kingsbane and bleeds. Correct? or am I wrong about this?

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:49 PM

#

not me who implemented it @little ice 😃 but I wish Blizzard would let the Beta open or let Legs on PTR so I could double check it

#

until then, it's only guess

#

@tough goblet then it needs to be fixed in the module 😃

#

if you show me logs with/without I can fix it

#

Value: 40
Server-side script
Effect #2    Apply Aura: Dummy
Value: 30
Server-side script```

#

those are the effect of the bracers

#

as you can see, it's dark for us since it's something server side

#

so at first we guess, then we implement based on logs

#

and at any moment, blizzard can "stealth" hotfix it 😃

#

that's why your feedback is so important, I can't check everything from the module everyday 😉

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 2:57 PM

#

@pseudo grove 4+cp envenom versus 3+cp difference between dps is almost nothing. APL does silly things though, like at 5cp it uses mutilate to cast 6 cp rupture without exsanguinate. Also it doesn't let exsanguinated rupture fall of completely but refreshes it in pandemic range. I never read any clarification on this though. Should ensanguinated rupture let fall off completely? I know vanish+rupture should with nightstalker

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 2:59 PM

#

yes I'm not surprised on the 5cp mutilate, I'm not sure if it's a good choice or not (also it wait a bit when rupture is about to be in pandemic) resulting in energy or cp overflow (atm cp overflow since it will mutilate even at 6cp)

#

about the rupture refreshed during rupture exsanguinate

#

I think it's because you don't have all the changes

#

someone reported me yesterday, I've fixed it

#

hmm, maybe I didn't pushed it, can't check it atm

#

but yeah, this issue will be gone (rupture refreshed while exsanguinated)

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 3:01 PM

#

I downloaded new nightly under hour ago

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 3:01 PM

#

yes but

#

I checked and it's not in commit history

#

probably forgot to push 😄

#

it's on my another PC

#

anyway the idea is to refresh it (ideally) on the latest tick

#

practically, when exsanguinated you can do it when it's under 2s

#

the under is important, not at 2.03s, after so < 2

#

else you miss another tick

#

I think I've put 1.5

full girder Nov 4, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

ok thanks for the info 😃

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 3:04 PM

#

in my TODO, I have to check the deceit opener (fok as first gcd) and rupture @ 5cp

marble cosmos Nov 4, 2016, 3:30 PM

#

Any ideai why simC keep giving VERS> other stats for AGO build, as u can literraly have 0? 😦

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 3:35 PM

#

because Vers is a good stat

#

it's not a bug

#

the less you have, the more it will "ask you"

warm nova Nov 4, 2016, 3:39 PM

#

FoK opener won't benefit from the first vendetta though so sceptical about that

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 3:42 PM

#

but nightstalker

warm nova Nov 4, 2016, 3:44 PM

#

Yeah but garotte will benefit from both nightstalker and vendetta while FoK only from the former

#

Idk though

muted field Nov 4, 2016, 3:45 PM

#

I tested FoK opener on dummy, and wjhile it math'd out to more damage than garrote for the opener, the energy for the opener led to some slowness in getting the 6point rupture up if you got unlucky with your 2xmut and didn't get 6 after vendetta.

warm nova Nov 4, 2016, 3:45 PM

#

FoK opener on multiple mobs with the lego is bae though

muted field Nov 4, 2016, 3:46 PM

#

Feelycraft led m to believe more crit would make it better, but so far I have stuck with Garrote opener, and FoK after vendetta.

#

So I'm curious as to how it sims

#

I should say I FoK after 6 point rupte and KB

pseudo grove Nov 4, 2016, 3:47 PM

#

hence the "check" 😛 have to test both

#

I fixed a couple of things already

#

especially on 2 targets

muted field Nov 4, 2016, 3:50 PM

#

I was doing FoK, Garrote, Rupture, Vendetta, 2xMut, Vanish, Rupture, KB as I recall.

frigid forge Nov 4, 2016, 9:13 PM

#

If i have a question about item ID's for relics so that i can sim them where should i ask?

rain haven Nov 4, 2016, 11:20 PM

#

Is it worth dropping a 865 shadow relic with rupture dmg for a 840 relic with vendetta cause this 840 will make it so i have 3 vendetta relics now'

#

?

#

hello

potent comet Nov 4, 2016, 11:57 PM

#

#228879234540503040

lethal oasis Nov 5, 2016, 12:01 AM

#

I've checked the APL and it's still showing to reroll with Greenskin's and Shark buff alone, is this correct? I figured with Greenskin's being so much better now, Shark is just as good to keep as True Bearing.

#

Only with the legendary though.

frigid forge Nov 5, 2016, 12:43 AM

#

Is there a consensus about when ep/ap > ep/ex?

#

and are the current simulation models correctly modeling ep/ap?

#

accuretly that is

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 11:11 AM

#

@Orckefeller#1827 What's ur simc version ?

#

@frigid forge Exsg can be a little better (like 1% better) but overall it should be okay

#

still have to check a legendary as Assassination

#

if someone got it, would like to see its interaction (ie, logs) with AP 😃

lament abyss Nov 5, 2016, 11:13 AM

#

which legendary?

agile flare Nov 5, 2016, 12:46 PM

#

Why is hunger of the pack so good for assassination? How is it different than a crit+agi stat stick? See it simming so high up every time.

small mountain Nov 5, 2016, 12:47 PM

#

@pseudo grove what legendary do you need tested

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 12:51 PM

#

Zoldyck Family Training Shackles

lament abyss Nov 5, 2016, 12:56 PM

#

I have them.

real night Nov 5, 2016, 12:57 PM

#

guys, maybe I am not on the right page but I am 870ilvl with 40% crit and 110% mastery and yet my Exsang Sim on simcraft sims 15k higher than my EP/AP sim does. I thought the sweet spot to switch was 40% crit and 110% mastery though. Are sims kind of not working properly or should I really stay exsang build ?

lament abyss Nov 5, 2016, 12:57 PM

#

Is your simc updated?

real night Nov 5, 2016, 12:57 PM

#

yep

#

from yesterday

#

and I am simming on 100000 iterations

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 1:00 PM

#

there is no "sweet spot" @real night, at least not clearly defined as you may think

#

it depends on a lot of things

real night Nov 5, 2016, 1:01 PM

#

well I guess it depends on trinkets and over all stat ofc but still 15k is a lot.

#

I was talking to the nº1 rogue on my realm yesterday and he was somehow baffled by my sims result

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 1:01 PM

#

it also depends on your "skill" to play each spec, Exsg is in my mind a bit harder to play perfectly than AP, so while SimC may show you Exsg is ahead, you might do better dps as AP than Exsg.

real night Nov 5, 2016, 1:02 PM

#

well exsang build isn't that hard to play xD

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 1:02 PM

#

not exactly what I said 😛

real night Nov 5, 2016, 1:02 PM

#

true xD

#

also, on Simcraft, do you know if the sim use cd as soon as they are available or will it hold it if necessary ?

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 1:03 PM

#

it depends

#

you can see how it does by looking at the sample sequence table

silver dirge Nov 5, 2016, 1:03 PM

#

Someone here who can have a look at my logs? I feel like im performing far too bad for my ilvl

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 1:03 PM

#

it's what the actor did on the 2nd iteration

#

(or 1st if you only have 1 iteration ... but besides debugging it's not very useful)

real night Nov 5, 2016, 1:04 PM

#

I run 100000 iterations for a more accurate result usually xD

#

alright thx a lot for your time and answers xD

bitter quiver Nov 5, 2016, 4:00 PM

#

Anyone know how Bloodstained Handkerchief is simming? not had a chance to give it a go

frail jetty Nov 5, 2016, 4:10 PM

#

Has Ring of Collapsing Futures been added to simc?

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 4:14 PM

#

yes

#

for both

frail jetty Nov 5, 2016, 4:29 PM

#

I'm not seeing it under damage done

#

assuming 710-01 is the latest

pseudo grove Nov 5, 2016, 4:31 PM

#

no it is not

#

try a nightly

frail jetty Nov 5, 2016, 4:31 PM

#

710-01 isn't the latest?

stuck sapphire Nov 5, 2016, 4:44 PM

#

no

icy mango Nov 5, 2016, 9:02 PM

#

@frail jetty look for collapse damage

oblique lake Nov 5, 2016, 11:03 PM

#

Can simc scaling be trusted for AP?

fervent locust Nov 6, 2016, 1:15 AM

#

What Pot is the strongest for Sub? Old war or Prolonged? Is there a way i can sim that?

icy mango Nov 6, 2016, 1:26 AM

#

You can sim it by modifying the apl

#

Also, old war is stronger by a small margin on single target, and pp is stronger by a larger margin on multiple targets/aoe

#

Also that's a better question for #228879234540503040

fervent locust Nov 6, 2016, 1:29 AM

#

Thanks alot @icy mango

daring spoke Nov 6, 2016, 4:23 AM

#

@pseudo grove Do you have a rough idea on what ilvl wirth vend is

#

ilvl triple vendetta relics are worth*

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 10:49 AM

#

@daring spoke ?

spark root Nov 6, 2016, 10:53 AM

#

how many relic ilvls can I drop

#

for 3x vendetta relics

nimble gale Nov 6, 2016, 10:56 AM

#

So I'm trying to figure out just what the difference is between me and this other guy. Same fight durations and ilvl but he's doing 110k more dps.

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/KLDkWwh4QtyfXabF/3aqWkLdbywRc6DgB#source=14,18&type=damage-done

#

Could anyone help

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 11:20 AM

#

@spark root Can't give you the answer from my hat sorry, try to sim it 😃

spark root Nov 6, 2016, 11:49 AM

#

how much of overkill is 3x fatebringer relics?

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 11:51 AM

#

it doesn't make sense

#

I mean, your question

#

there is no "overkill", outlaw rely a lot on energy

cyan kelp Nov 6, 2016, 11:52 AM

#

@nimble gale look at "buffs" he got several crit roll from alch trinket and he used 2 potions dont see 1 used by you

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 11:52 AM

#

so the more you have (because abilities costs less) the more it is

tall magnet Nov 6, 2016, 1:07 PM

#

hello guys got a quick question about Agonizing poison lot of people saying it is enought atm without Master poisoner to cap youur mastery around 8000 8500 and i still dont know why can someone explain it please? 😃

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 1:26 PM

#

new Assassination APL is gonna pulls ahead of Skasch/Old one for AP build and almost get on the same level for Exsg (it's still a bit ahead, I have to improve it a little more)

#

feel free to continue to suggest me changes for both builds

#

(after the update ofc)

tall magnet Nov 6, 2016, 1:27 PM

#

APL means?

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 1:28 PM

#

Action Priority List

#

about the changes, I'll include them only if they aren't "too complex"

#

by complex I means, doable "easily" by people and not rely on tight timer

#

(like the tick_time is quite unrealistic for 99% of wow playerbase because planning a 5-6cp finisher for a 1s time window is quite hard because of gear level/skill required)

tall magnet Nov 6, 2016, 1:32 PM

#

thanks for the answer 😄

real night Nov 6, 2016, 2:33 PM

#

Hey guys, do you know how often the Alchemist trinket procs ?

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 2:35 PM

#

@real night http://www.wowhead.com/spell=188026/infernal-alchemist-stone

Wowhead

Infernal Alchemist Stone

When you heal or deal damage you have a chance to increase your Strength, Agility, or Intellect by 3126 for 15 sec. Your highest stat is always chosen.

#

Approximately 1 procs per minute

random cargo Nov 6, 2016, 2:36 PM

#

Guys I think my sims are fucked

real night Nov 6, 2016, 2:36 PM

#

alright thx a lot.... You should have shouted at me. I could have done that reseach if I had thought of it xD

random cargo Nov 6, 2016, 2:36 PM

#

my 855 dominion deck seims higher than my 865 bti with exsang

#

sims*

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 3:19 PM

#

here we go

#

new apl is out

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/ae84cff48980e5216e4ddfae7e507c8b72df3a63

GitHub

[Rogue] Assassination APL Episode 2 · simulationcraft/simc@ae84c...

Also added T19 bleed to bleeds expression.

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/4b69d8fac171f1893d9f742d9310c850f3428b2a/profiles/Tier19M/Rogue_Assassination_T19M.simc

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

if you want to see what it looks like inside a profile

rich wharf Nov 6, 2016, 3:45 PM

#

Shadow satyr's walk is simming 140k dps higher than 850 boots in assassin spec, I guess the legendary effect is incorrectly applied

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 3:47 PM

#

yes it's a known bug

#

same for outlaw

#

in fact, simc core does create itself an effect

#

because on client data it's not specified that it's shadowstrike only

#

so by default it enables on everything

#

instead of nothing

#

navv told me he'll fix it in the core

#

because it does affects aswell some others classes

#

like some dk legendaries are applied to every classes

#

and some things like that messed

#

so I didn't enforce it in the rogue module until the fix is out

rich wharf Nov 6, 2016, 3:50 PM

#

doesn't if feel like a full time job always working on simc, fixing bugs, adding changes ... ?

arctic raft Nov 6, 2016, 3:51 PM

#

@pseudo grove, any news about NH sims?)

frozen brook Nov 6, 2016, 3:54 PM

#

@pseudo grove not sure if this is the place to ask and couldnt find them but i wonder what's the best option to choose in simc to correctly sim our dps? in basic option that is. the fight length, vary length % etc

rocky raven Nov 6, 2016, 3:56 PM

#

@frozen brook I've personally been using "light movement" option for now but for "fight length" you should check your guilds personal logs

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 3:56 PM

#

@rich wharf more like a student passion, but if you want to pay me feel free to 😛

#

@arctic raft what do you mean by new ?

#

I added T19 Assa "supports" in the APL tho

arctic raft Nov 6, 2016, 3:57 PM

#

sims with legendaries and sets

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 3:57 PM

#

@frozen brook sometimes I put 225 as fight_length and 85% of vary, so it's seemed across a big range

#

not really but results will be somewhat close to what you already saw @arctic raft

#

until Blizzard do some changes 😄

frozen brook Nov 6, 2016, 3:58 PM

#

i just want the 'correct' one so that i can get an accurate pawn strings

rocky raven Nov 6, 2016, 4:04 PM

#

@pseudo grove Does your guild kill most bosses in that time? o.0

#

225 I mean

#

Or am I missing something

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 4:31 PM

#

do 225-225*0.85

#

and 225+225*0.85

#

and you get a big range 😃

strong surge Nov 6, 2016, 5:19 PM

#

Has nighthold trinkets been implemented in sims?

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:47 PM

#

I made a post on MMO champ about how I am really simming WAY higher with Vers over Mastery. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2106625-Assassination-EP-AP-Versatility-gt-Mastery

Hey guys, I posted this as a comment to another thread, but I think it deserves some conversation.

This is about EP/AP build specifically

Simc is going against what everyone is saying is the current meta. I do have the 3 vendetta relics and here are my stat weights from biggest to lowest:

Agility=13.56, Versatility=11.16, CritRating=10.44, MasteryRating=10.03, HasteRating=5.79

#

Is there already documentation on versatility vs mastery for current sin?

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 5:50 PM

#

man

#

you got 4% versa

#

that's normal

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:51 PM

#

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/us/tichondrius/lockea

#

Also, why is that normal?

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 5:51 PM

#

See it as multiplier factor and you'll figure it yourself =)```

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:52 PM

#

Then why do high parsing rogues like Pinch only stack Mastery and Crit? Like purely

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 5:52 PM

#

do 0.8x0.2, then now do 0.9x0.2 and then 0.8x0.3

#

and find which one got the highest results

#

that's exactly the same thing

#

it's just extremely simplified so you get the idea 😛

#

being a "high parsing guy" doesn't means you're 100% optimal, logs are just reflect of a mix of skill/raid comp/raid strategy/raid skill

#

and RNG of course

#

it's not pure skill

#

optimization does matter a bit

#

but overall, the difference isn't that high

#

most ppl put too much emphasize on secondary stats while they should train on dummies/dungeons/raids instead

#

they would get more dps than optimizing a bit their gear 😉

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:54 PM

#

I see

#

Btw, I enjoyed your FInal Boss interview!

#

was very helpful

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 5:57 PM

#

😃 sorry for my bad english tho 😛

#

I feel like I should make a blog or whatever to explain those concepts

#

they aren't hard to understand but I feel like most people are looking at the wrong thing to upgrade their dps

#

and this kind of consideration is my mind "theorycrafting" aswell

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:58 PM

#

Well its surprising seeing people on top not optomized, and I sometimes feel like I am in the wrong even though what I am reading is obviously telling me otherwise 😛

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 5:59 PM

#

understanding how secondary stats interact between each others is pure theorycrafting, understanding that is not the only key to improve ours performance is more hybrid but as important as understanding those stats things

plain sedge Nov 6, 2016, 5:59 PM

#

Do you have a guide written up on how the stats interact with each other?

#

I am parsing in the 95s atm and theorycrafting has always been interesting to me. However I don't know how to dwelve deeper into it

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 6:00 PM

#

I've writed in some place of this Discord and MMO-C forums but nothing formal yet, have others things to do/fix before

thick heath Nov 6, 2016, 10:21 PM

#

@pseudo grove Don't think MP/AP is simming properly with Zodyack bracers, I've ran a ton of sims it shows my max crit hit on Poison Bomb being 405851. Real fights it is 526k with just flask and food. Rupture and Kingsbane damage seems proper on Bracer sims, but Poison Bomb is def wrong unless I'm missing something.

#

Simulation Iteration Average
Direct Results Count Pct Mean Min Max Mean Min Max Actual Amount Total Amount Overkill %
hit 18.27 56.90% 187079.21 128439 202925 187070.64 0 202925 3417181 3417181 0.00
crit 13.84 43.10% 374250.85 256879 405851 374282.06 323764 405851 5179145 5179145 0.00

#

00:03:28.736 Geehbee Poison Bomb Il'gynoth 526350

00:03:28.807 Geehbee Melee Il'gynoth 12647

00:03:29.234 Geehbee Poison Bomb Il'gynoth 526350

00:03:29.518 Geehbee Rupture Il'gynoth Tick 198100

elfin remnant Nov 6, 2016, 10:42 PM

#

emm

#

my antivirus found worm in simulationcraft.exe

#

latest vesion

#

PDM:Worm:Win32:BSS:ScreenLock

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 11:22 PM

#

@thick heath it's clearly possible, on the other hand it's implemented to work with AP but I heard it doesn't work with

#

since you got bracers

#

may you do tests for me and send me your logs ?

#

so I can implement it correctly

thick heath Nov 6, 2016, 11:32 PM

#

ya ill do a bunch of logs when im on later tonight

pseudo grove Nov 6, 2016, 11:33 PM

#

ty then 😃

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dummy logs are enough

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as long as I can see the interaction

frosty glade Nov 7, 2016, 5:58 AM

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anyone know why insignia would be doing like 12% of someones damage?

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RjJ2xDqzQAbBH3Vk#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=17

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trying to parse out why this guy has so much damage from his insignia

acoustic lake Nov 7, 2016, 6:01 AM

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old log, its been hotfixed since, ignore it

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 6:45 AM

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😃

glacial whale Nov 7, 2016, 7:04 AM

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Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, assuming the sample sequence table means what I think it does, the exsang opener on simc seems a little broken

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It's saying it vanish> ruptures, and then immediately overwrites that rupture and then exsang/kingsbane

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 7:55 AM

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weird

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do u have a link for the report ?

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oh that's the case on the one from the website aswell

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ty for report

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hmm that's with old APL

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was less occuring on new but could still, I've fixed it 😃

glacial whale Nov 7, 2016, 8:29 AM

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Oh sorry I just got back

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Sorry I couldn't be more help!

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 8:34 AM

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it's fine got it 😛

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 9:34 AM

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do someone got a flat stat trinket from wq ?

small mountain Nov 7, 2016, 9:35 AM

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I have a haste one, disenchanted the rest

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 9:37 AM

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got it someone pmed me

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thanks anyway 😛

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was wondering the bonus id for ToV trinket

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I think it'll be the same as the one from WQ and Nightbane

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ie 60x

small mountain Nov 7, 2016, 9:38 AM

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yeah a crit or mastery stat stick with like 900 ilvl will be so nice

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 9:38 AM

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bonus_id={ 604 }, stats={ 100% Haste [0.6667] }
bonus_id={ 605 }, stats={ 100% Mastery [0.6667] }
bonus_id={ 606 }, stats={ 100% Crit [0.6667] }
bonus_id={ 607 }, stats={ 100% Vers [0.6667] }```

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those should be the right bonus_id

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ratio is 0.6667

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 5:52 PM

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gutripper better than demon kiss without nighthold set

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for AoE

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wondering how it changes with nh set

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and gutripper = demon kiss on st

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interesting

strong surge Nov 7, 2016, 5:54 PM

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depends on your crit tho, right?

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I have so much crit right now even when I optimize gear for sub, like 42%, I imagine gutripper is not that good in this case

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 5:56 PM

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well, in fact it is

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because there is no diminishing return on the addition

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and that's the ability we spam and do the more dmg (besides nightblade)

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especially during AoE

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in ST it's close

winged lily Nov 7, 2016, 5:57 PM

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this is interesting.

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kinda makes me wanna test sub in my assassination gear now

boreal plume Nov 7, 2016, 6:10 PM

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Don't I've tried

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Its just sad

heavy vortex Nov 7, 2016, 6:30 PM

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lol

thick heath Nov 7, 2016, 6:34 PM

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@pseudo grove I made around a 5 minute log of attacking a target dummy at 1% to keep Zodyck bracers activated... using MP/AP, and only using 6 point envenom finishers so poison bomb damage/surge buff should be consistant, where do you want this file?

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 7:02 PM

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upload to wcl

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it's fine

thick heath Nov 7, 2016, 7:44 PM

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hmm, got a bit of an issue, I was using the dummies in warspear as they got 10mil HP so i can get them below 30% quick so bracers come into play... the problem is warcraft logs stops showing my damage on them for some reason once they hit and stay at 1% hp... like they died. I checked the raw log file and it still of course shows all the casts being done etc, anyhow I'll link a few I think might help.

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NacthpJgMXbdDyrW/#type=damage-done&source=4

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here's a regular log using MP/AP against a dummy that stays at 100%

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hNdbVpLCZyj17Wfc/#type=damage-done&source=10

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Heres a log of a warspear dummy... got a poison bomb proc when it was around 30% so it actually shows the buffed bomb damage with bracers

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rKqCDkWB3TnGj4PM#type=damage-done&source=11&fight=14

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and hes just a normal Illygenoth log, got a few procs when heart was under 30%, no potion max hit 526 crit again

zenith berry Nov 7, 2016, 7:57 PM

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heyhey, not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but are there any sims for stormsinger fulmination charge for assassination? its listed nowhere i can find, probably cause its listed as a ranged only trinket, but it 100% works on rogues and im assuming the mastery procc is pretty solid for sin

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 8:28 PM

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I heard combat is now also quite fond of mastery, is that true?

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Outlaw*

glacial whale Nov 7, 2016, 8:29 PM

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No, I'll pm you an answer though

bright sparrow Nov 7, 2016, 8:36 PM

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@zenith berry you can sim the trinket. I have a high ilvl one (870 I think) and it was weaker than 865 BtI and 875 memento for sub, with mastery summing as my highest stat. The proc is very rare

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:07 PM

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why is Bloodstained Hankercheif simming higher than Alchemist stone? both 855.... surely alch wins?

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:07 PM

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Can't the bleed stack?

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And remember, it doesn't run out

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:07 PM

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true

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but nearly 5k agility?

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on the alch proc

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:08 PM

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Does it activate Venomous Wounds?

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:09 PM

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no idea

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wil lit say this in the sim

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also you cant stack it

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:10 PM

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I don't know if Sim works with Venom. Wounds activating from the handkerchief too. The tooltip kinda suggests it

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it's a bleed, and it's from you, so it may very well do so

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:11 PM

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well its simming 1.5k dps higher than Alch

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whats the proc rate like on alch stone, and whats the CD

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:11 PM

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1.5k is not much

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:14 PM

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what would you go for?

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:15 PM

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That's a difficult question. it depends a lot on how Fortuna feels for oyu. If the procc from the stone happens when you are about to run out because Nythendra felt like Rot-ing you, it's wasted

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The handkerchief is steady supply, the stone is burst

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:15 PM

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Yeah...

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difficult one

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ill give it a few tries

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see how i get on

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thanks man

ivory moon Nov 7, 2016, 9:16 PM

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You may also have to consider that the stone can be upgraded further in the future

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and that there may be a better one in 7.2 or so

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I cna't whine, I have 6FF and Ursoc trinket

cyan totem Nov 7, 2016, 9:20 PM

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XD

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 9:54 PM

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Example (my gear): 28450 * [1:6] * 0.98130 * 1.5 * [1.04:1.24] * 1.04 * [1.05:1.15] * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.0723 * 1.771

6CP w/o Finality nor LegionBlade nor MoS : 595 492dmg (tooltip shows 654 978)```

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What did I forgot ?

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ok, was Deeper Stratagem 😃

bright sparrow Nov 7, 2016, 10:08 PM

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Why does my 5-target aoe dps sim fall off significantly at the end (sub)? I have patchwerk 300 sec 5 targets http://puu.sh/s9Yiy/513085ddad.png

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using latest nightly simc but have had this result for a long time

bitter quiver Nov 7, 2016, 10:13 PM

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Does anyone know why my bloodstained handkerchief seems to be simming higher dps than my apendages?

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only a 10 ilvl diff

pseudo grove Nov 7, 2016, 10:15 PM

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@bright sparrow That's always the case on SimC Report Graphs

crisp basin Nov 7, 2016, 10:42 PM

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probably as the target actors start dying it slowly devolves into 4 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1 target fight

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suppose that could be helped a bit by using fixed_time=1

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:01 AM

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@bright sparrow, @crisp basin - not quite

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if you have it set to 300seconds with some variance

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not all the samples last more than 300 seconds

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that chart is sort of aggregating all of the runs

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so a lot of the runs won't make it to 300+ seconds

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:01 AM

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I thought about that and tried with 0 variance, this is what I got: http://puu.sh/sa5is/f6b0c5095a.png

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:02 AM

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and they have their DPS value set to zero for that

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weird. that sure looks like the fight went to ~260seconds

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:02 AM

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http://puu.sh/sa5mI/7451f0e7b8.png

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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did u used fixed_time=1 ?

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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yeah, not doubting you! might be a bug or a strange visual representation

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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I just set that in the profile aethys?

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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there are also a few different "health models" in use that disregard the length

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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yes

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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yeah, fixed_time might be responsible

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:03 AM

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at the top it's fine

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it's a global token

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:05 AM

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yep, that fixed it

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small artifact at the end but the chart is much more as expected - is that just visual or does it affect the sim in any other ways?

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:06 AM

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visual artifact

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for timestamps where those sims weren't going (because the target was dead, or because someone had set a nonzero variance and that sim was running for less time) we have to fill the plot out somehow, so it's represented as zero-padded data

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and when you average all the runs, the zero-padded ones look like they draw the plot down

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but when it's reporting real statistics, it doesn't zero-pad that stuff

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the average DPS over all iterations is the average of the "average DPS per iteration", where the thing in quotes is normalized by Real Simulation length

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:08 AM

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fixed_time=1 is important when you sims multiple actors at the same time

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(likely what we do :D)

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:08 AM

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yeah, especially for classes with execute mechanics

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i.e. shadow priests, warriors, etc

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:10 AM

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so fixed_time means that the enemies can't die before the sim is over? sorry if dumb question, not super clear

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:11 AM

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Fixed Time: The combat length is purely based on the configured time-based combat length parameters. Enemy health percentage is uniformly distributed over the combat length.

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note: this is not the default

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Options

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:11 AM

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but it's the default for exec classes

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:11 AM

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Which rogue is not.

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:11 AM

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and it has been discussed to put it as default

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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But Aethys is correct.

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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for every1

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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I would argue that it's better than using the estimator.

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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will probably kick in when the single_actor_batch stuff will be done

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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FixedTime is easier to reason about, imo

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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😉

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:12 AM

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😉

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yep

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:13 AM

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Appreciate the help and clarification!

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 12:13 AM

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Definitely! This is a great use of this channel, too - thanks for the good questions and data.

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 12:40 AM

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Also, I've asked about this before but now i'm not on my phone and have real data

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I think the sub multi-target APL is currently broken, not cycling nightblade targets

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Here's 5-target with default apl and with cycle_targets=1 in place of target_ifmax:target.time_to_die

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http://scforums.minthe.net/results.html

latent wraith Nov 8, 2016, 1:39 AM

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anybody know how much %speed the speed from gear translates to? i couldn't find anything about it

civic perch Nov 8, 2016, 3:33 AM

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It's hidden by default but you can use addons like monkeyspeed to show it. I don't remember the exact translation anymore sadly.

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 3:59 AM

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@bright sparrow - that's really interesting

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it does seem broken.

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 4:02 AM

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I think it just uses max time to die and always targets the boss/highest hp target

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would also explain the ridiculous priority target damage i've been seeing on sims

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 4:04 AM

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oh. wow.

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look at the sample sequence table

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the (current, inferior) logic nightblades enemy 3, enemy 4, enemy 5, enemy 2, and then never recasts it on them

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at time=1, 5, 13, 31

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the alternate you posted is much better; it keeps nightblade up on the others

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that's a giant bug; whoa

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 4:06 AM

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Don't know if the one I posted is optimal, all i did was switch to cycle targets

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 4:06 AM

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my conjecture is taht there's something fishy in the target switching on target-if

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unfortunately, i am off to go deadlift + squat tonight and cannot investigate; but this is an interesting core engine bug that someone should take a look at - maybe @pseudo grove later?

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 5:44 AM

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Yes @bright sparrow it has been broken recently

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Same happened for Assa, I figured it when I reworked the APL

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I will change it tho.

bright sparrow Nov 8, 2016, 5:46 AM

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Thank you

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 5:49 AM

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If you have any suggestion about any rogue APL does not hesitate !

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Assa was heavy WIP until recently and didn't looked at others unless I saw issue using my addon

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 6:26 AM

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@chrome sun I already reported it to navv

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Some days ago

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 7:19 AM

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nicely done.

river nymph Nov 8, 2016, 10:05 AM

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Wanted to know if poisoned knife is viable to increase kingsbane dmg?

novel flint Nov 8, 2016, 10:10 AM

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Anyone use fok on single target with legendary cape?

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@chrome sun lifts 💪🏼

brazen jay Nov 8, 2016, 10:14 AM

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Has any of you guys done math on master poisoner and elaborate. Cause with my napkin math you would seem to require something in the multiple hundreds of mastery % for mp to pull ahead.

brazen jay Nov 8, 2016, 10:41 AM

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Also, are gushing wounds trait perks additive or multiplicative with sins different damage modifiers? If any of the greens know

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 10:49 AM

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multiplicative

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by default everything is multiplicative unless some specials things

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example : the passive that gives assassination 35% dmg on insignia instead of 20%, it's a +15%

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ie additive

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all others are by default multiplicative from each others

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Yesterday I posted the Eviscerate formula (Subtlety), you can see it well that every multipliers are multiplicative :

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AP * CP * EviscR1_APCoef * EviscR2_M * F:Evisc_M * ShadowFangs_M * LegionBlade_M * MoS_M * DS_M * SoD_M * Versa_M * Mastery_M

brazen jay Nov 8, 2016, 10:52 AM

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So gushing wound traits keep their value going onwards with the expansion compared to poisoned knives and alchemist traits. Interesting

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 10:54 AM

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that's also the kind of thing that makes secondary stats value growth

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I mean, the more you have of one, the more it will increases the values of others

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that's particularly true when they are dmg modifier

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ex, versa & mastery

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but that can be modeled that way for haste & crit aswell

strong surge Nov 8, 2016, 11:17 AM

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And what about traits that add crit chance to your abilities like serrated Edge and gutripper, are they additive to your crit?

pseudo grove Nov 8, 2016, 11:21 AM

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since it adds, it's additive 😛

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gutripper is additive for sure

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since serrated edge is an assa equivalent

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I would assume it's additive aswell since that's the default behavior

strong surge Nov 8, 2016, 11:22 AM

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thats what i though, I just know that crit buff in court is multiplicative, thats why I asked

gray fulcrum Nov 8, 2016, 11:31 AM

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spawn_of_serpentrix could not spawn a pet, increase the count

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How to fix this?

grizzled kite Nov 8, 2016, 2:49 PM

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Question, I am exchanging 880 Versa for 880 Mastery on necklace, Crit stays same, and even though Mastery has highest value atm, its DPS drop of around 1k on AP/EP build

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am I doing something wrong?

little ice Nov 8, 2016, 3:07 PM

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If I'm calculating numbers for old war pot vs prolonged power is it a case of getting my weighting and then doing (weighting x 2500) x 60 to work out the dps increase?

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Then comparing that to the set damage an oldwar

marble cosmos Nov 8, 2016, 3:58 PM

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@pseudo grove simC is delaying kingsbane to sync with vendetta for 3MA relics or not?

chrome sun Nov 8, 2016, 5:33 PM

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it is if and only if you see "sync_cooldowns"

uneven crag Nov 8, 2016, 5:33 PM

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@marble cosmos It did for Exsang, but not for AP.