#tc-updates | Ravenholdt | Page 7

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 5:40 AM

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Same gear diferent results..

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 5:45 AM

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This doesn't alone prove an issue, notice the the dps range reported by SimC is +/-50K this means that a 459K result is mostly consistent with a 407K median value. Now it is possible you did something that the current APL isn't doing, it is also possible you just got lucky. Digging into what exactly is different between these two results could help us localize the issue

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 5:47 AM

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ok thx

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 5:51 AM

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Do you mind uploading the simc result page and linking the parse

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might help us

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 5:52 AM

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fXLMW4RV26q9C7PG#

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 5:57 AM

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upload the html page

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 5:57 AM

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one sec

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 5:57 AM

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Actually one quick thing, did you change the fight length? If you didn't, change the encounter length to 220 seconds and rerun

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 5:58 AM

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ok

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 5:58 AM

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and then upload that result

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 6:00 AM

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📎 results_html.html

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 6:00 AM

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Fight Length: 176 - 264

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put 220 without vary

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 6:00 AM

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ops

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📎 results_html.html

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didnt change much

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:03 AM

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damage breakdowns are pretty close by %

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poison bomb is the biggest outlier and that is in the positive direction

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 6:03 AM

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yes

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also it's not the same food

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but wouldn't change much

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it's clearly in the dps range

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:04 AM

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yeah, my hunch is just good luck on top of very good play

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but I really should sleep and you can probably be more rigorous digging into the DPET for each ability

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 6:05 AM

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ok sry i dont know much about how simc works.. 😉 thx for the help anyways.

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:05 AM

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another possible source of error is that dumb trinket

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 6:05 AM

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also, on SimC the latest seconds are always a bit lower than normal (see the dps graph) so for me it looks fine

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:05 AM

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there were 3 deaths in the raid which inflates trinket uptime

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 6:06 AM

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oh, yes ^^

acoustic compass Oct 24, 2016, 6:06 AM

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Memento?

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:06 AM

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Yeah, it auto-procs when someone in your group dies

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there is slightly higher elaborte planning and envenom uptime which is probably where I'd start looking for APL differences

ocean remnant Oct 24, 2016, 6:54 AM

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so simming my sin mind you I'm only 842 equipped talented exsanguinate, priority is Agi > Crit > Vers > Haste > Mastery does that make sense.

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:08 AM

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EP, AP, SoD, MoS, Vers, Shadow %Dmg

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did I forgot something for Insignia ?

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Vendetta is not working on

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hmm, Shadow Fangs I assume aswell

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http://www.wowhead.com/spell=221856/shadow-fangs

Wowhead

Shadow Fangs

Increases Physical and Shadow damage by 4%.

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(but already taken in account)

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May someone with Insignia test something for me ?
Hit a dummy with shadowstrike/backstab, go to your CP cap (6/8/5), and continues to use the builders.
Does insignia procs when you're CP capped ?

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:41 AM

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It does not @pseudo grove

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:42 AM

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interesting

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that explains why sometimes I see it in logs and why sometimes I don't see it

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another bug

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:42 AM

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however for assassination it does

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:42 AM

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does for assa but not for sub ?

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oO

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more interesting !

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:43 AM

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also works for outlaw, so only sub is bugged

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:43 AM

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wish blizzard would give me every legs 😄 or at least put them on the PTR

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may you try with backstab only

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then with shadowstrike only ?

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@small mountain

plain magnet Oct 24, 2016, 8:46 AM

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I just ran some test against dummy playing subt and it procced properly at 6 CP

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backstab 100%

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:47 AM

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its only backstab not proccing it, SS does

plain magnet Oct 24, 2016, 8:47 AM

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well it did proc for me with backstab

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:47 AM

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😒

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try backstab from front

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then backstab from behind

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maybe related to the from behind bonuses

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nothing surprised my anymore nowadays with Blizzard

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:48 AM

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wait now both are working wtf

plain magnet Oct 24, 2016, 8:48 AM

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I believe it was from front (dummy from the mage tower)

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 8:49 AM

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its working from front and back now 😄 both bs and ss

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no idea what changed

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 8:50 AM

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maybe it was some parry

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so it's another thing

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probably positioning

severe ridge Oct 24, 2016, 9:28 AM

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if you are more then 15y from boss center it won't hit, which you can be on nythendra for example

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 9:31 AM

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oh, so it does ignore the "hitbox" of the boss and take the raw distance

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interesting

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might explain the thing since I was looking at Ursoc & Nythendra logs ^^

small mountain Oct 24, 2016, 9:40 AM

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hm thats very good to know, ill be extra close to nythendra now

plush relic Oct 24, 2016, 10:32 AM

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Also sadly sstorm and fok dont trigger it

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 10:34 AM

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yes already known

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nor GB

woeful pendant Oct 24, 2016, 10:38 AM

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is it a cone

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or a line

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how wide is the cone

plush relic Oct 24, 2016, 10:38 AM

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And it has a strange synergy with the last Brh boss. It skyrockets to place 2 atleast in details.

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And does damage beyond shadowstrike dmg

gilded citrus Oct 24, 2016, 10:48 AM

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Is surge of toxing with AP build depending on how many cp you use the finisher with? I see mixed numbers in the % increase on the tooltip

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 11:22 AM

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it is because it benefits from pmultiplier and tmultiplier @plush relic

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I think I figured everything from this ring

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It does benefits from most player multiplier (currently, I'm sure for Shadow Fangs, MoS, SoD, EP, Versa) aswell as target multiplier (Agonizing Poison, ...)

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it takes in account POST-mitigation dmg

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(and not PRE like we thought for weeks, but its' because multiplier works on it that's why)

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it does have a 15y range and seems to ignore unit hitbox

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 11:53 AM

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Can someone with Insignia can test something for me on PTR ?

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Assassination Kingsbane will generate 1 CP after 7.1, would like to know if it procs Insignia or not

severe ridge Oct 24, 2016, 12:18 PM

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does not procc insignia

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 12:27 PM

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❤

gilded citrus Oct 24, 2016, 12:48 PM

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also another question while I am at it. Is it better to refresh rupter and always get a 34secs + rupture to exsanguinate? even if you waste some rupture time?
Or is it better to not waste rupture time and just go for whatever uptime there still is left even it its close to none?

rapid sparrow Oct 24, 2016, 12:57 PM

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So stupid that only mutilate procs insignia..

north frost Oct 24, 2016, 1:15 PM

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Anyone know: can Memento of Angerboda sim be trusted? It always returns equal amount of procs/uptime % for all 3 buff types (Mastery/Haste/Crit), does that mean it assumes the perfect average? But in real situations, especially on 5-6 min. fights that's usually not the case (you'll often RNG more of the Crit/Mastery as an example)

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 1:18 PM

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Memento has a hidden "feature" where it auto-procs when someone in your raid dies, this means that the uptimes seen may be higher than SimC computes but it is impossible to sim that in a generalizable way

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 1:20 PM

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Also, the odds are the same but RNG make it that on one pull you can have one 3 times and the other one only 1time for example. When you run a sim it's a lot of iterations, not only 1. (You can easily see it on crit)

north frost Oct 24, 2016, 1:43 PM

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@pseudo grove I've ran 5x 5min sims with max iterations available selected in the options and it always tells me that Crit/Mastery and Haste proced an even amount of times (equal amount of 7.5% uptime on each type of buff), however, in a real 5 min encounter, I feel it will never proc all 3 types equally like that (you could get only Crit procs throughout a 5 min encounter)

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Unless I'm not fully understanding you, it seems like it just sims an average with the set uptime

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 1:45 PM

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Right, so think of it like this which buff you get is a coin flip (yeah there are 3 buffs but just go with coin flip for simplicity), over a single encounter you could get a run of heads and have higher uptime from one buff, however if you do 50K coin flips you expect it to be basically even

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 1:50 PM

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do the reverse @north frost

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run 1 iteration and check the buffs/crit

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you'll see what we mean

north frost Oct 24, 2016, 1:50 PM

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ahh, I understand now

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I'm actually an idiot, I didn't fully understand iteration number for what it is, I knew it just increases the accuracy of the sim, but since I'm a moron I somehow totally ignored the fact that it just runs the sim multiple times then gives you an average, so obviously running 250k sims then averaging you'll get even results

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😄

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 1:52 PM

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^^

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tbh, I recommend target_error

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it will avoid useless sims time when you don't need it (because the spec is not very rng) and will increases the number of iteration when you need it (let's say outlaw)

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it's capped to 1 million tho

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(by default)

outer rapids Oct 24, 2016, 2:58 PM

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lol Aethys "playing" sublime text

stuck sapphire Oct 24, 2016, 3:17 PM

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well aethys has alot of his dev tools in status text^^

stuck sapphire Oct 24, 2016, 5:16 PM

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btw. do we know anything(proc rates/etc) from karazan trinkets?

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 5:42 PM

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not that much

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we'll see

outer rapids Oct 24, 2016, 6:18 PM

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Im really curious about the bleed + venomous wounds. I kind of expect it not to interact but it would be nice

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 6:40 PM

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This isn't really TC

arctic raft Oct 24, 2016, 7:15 PM

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did some1 test if it is worth to use symbols of death on cooldown for extra ambush crits during sd with legendary boots?

placid cypress Oct 24, 2016, 8:01 PM

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I've run sim on my character (Outlaw) 3 times in a row with out changing anything and received wildly different stat weights. is that due to RNG or are there other factors?

hexed stone Oct 24, 2016, 8:02 PM

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put on target_error

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 8:02 PM

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how many iterations/target error?

placid cypress Oct 24, 2016, 8:02 PM

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1000 its and 0.05%

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 8:04 PM

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at 1000 iterations different results isn't that unexpected, try putting the iteration count at 10K or 25K

hexed stone Oct 24, 2016, 8:04 PM

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1000 iterations will give you different stat weights for any class yeah

placid cypress Oct 24, 2016, 8:04 PM

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dat cpu load....is that recommended for every sim?

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 8:04 PM

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or put it in target error mode

placid cypress Oct 24, 2016, 8:05 PM

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pretty sure its 1000. im not at home. im just using the default amount

rain lance Oct 24, 2016, 8:05 PM

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basically yes, especially with outlaw because it has crazy rng behavior

placid cypress Oct 24, 2016, 8:05 PM

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i thought so. just confirming

hexed stone Oct 24, 2016, 8:05 PM

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But yeah for outlaw I use 25k

astral wave Oct 24, 2016, 9:31 PM

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Has there been any information regarding Potion of Prolonged Power (the new potion in 7.1) ?

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Am very curious to know if this can beat Old War

white delta Oct 24, 2016, 9:41 PM

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^

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yeah i would def like to know that...

modern stream Oct 24, 2016, 9:43 PM

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Im sorry if this is wrong channel, have we had sims comparing old war to the new stat pots ?

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Oh, sorry Pip

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I didnt read

stuck sapphire Oct 24, 2016, 10:08 PM

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are 7.1 changes in latest nightly build?

arctic raft Oct 24, 2016, 10:09 PM

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Outlaw
Saber Slash damage increased by 10%.
Pistol Shot damage increased by 10%.
Ghostly Strike damage increased by 10%.
Blunderbuss damage increased by 10%.

pseudo grove Oct 24, 2016, 10:09 PM

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oO

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not yet fuu

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will be grabbed tonight or I'll add it tomorrow morning

stuck sapphire Oct 24, 2016, 10:16 PM

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thanks

lost lantern Oct 24, 2016, 11:31 PM

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@arctic raft is that ghostly strike allows you to do 10% more damage, or just the hit of ghostly strike?

brazen tartan Oct 24, 2016, 11:31 PM

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probably just the hit

strong surge Oct 24, 2016, 11:31 PM

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10% more damage bonus would be retarded

digital viper Oct 24, 2016, 11:49 PM

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why does both nightly, and last official version of simcraft want sin rogues with ap+ep to stack LOTS of versatility? im close to 10% vers and it wants me to stack even more!! Its like agi>vers>mast>crit>haste atm - I am not using exsang (bleed)

keen mason Oct 25, 2016, 2:49 AM

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Depends on your stats

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 5:46 AM

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gonna add it from school (during the morning) and update the spreadsheet

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will make a before/after like always 😃

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 7:49 AM

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Pre 7.1 : http://simc.aethys.eu/Outlaw_Before.html
Post 7.1 : http://simc.aethys.eu/Outlaw_After.html

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@everyone Outlaw sims posted & pinned here. Don't discuss about the changes in this channel.

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And if you're building your own SimC, changes are pushed.

ember wigeon Oct 25, 2016, 8:04 AM

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hey what's the CL option to not prepot,flask, food ?

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 8:07 AM

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remove them from the APL

ember wigeon Oct 25, 2016, 8:10 AM

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isn't there an option?

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I'm batch simming multiple specs

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and fetch changes every morning

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editing the APL would take me too much of my time

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 8:18 AM

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ur guild members ? or stacked ranking ?

ember wigeon Oct 25, 2016, 8:25 AM

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yes my guild members

grizzled kite Oct 25, 2016, 8:28 AM

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Are there any new sims on trinkets, have their BIS change?

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 8:29 AM

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All my sims are updating atm, results this afternoon or tonight.Anyway the trinkets changes were mostly for casters.

grizzled kite Oct 25, 2016, 8:29 AM

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Thanks Aethys you are the best 😄

tardy kindle Oct 25, 2016, 8:39 AM

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Even the Nature's Call one? I guess it's still garbage 😦

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Nature’s Call cone attack damage increased by 40%.

crystal flax Oct 25, 2016, 12:04 PM

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@tardy kindle Ye the nature call buff is really weak

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angerboda still better i guess

tardy kindle Oct 25, 2016, 12:10 PM

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Okay thanks @crystal flax

arctic raft Oct 25, 2016, 1:27 PM

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hmm, simc710-01 shows 500k+ dps in combat with 880 ilvl and 1 legendary is it legit?

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100k iterations

outer rapids Oct 25, 2016, 1:34 PM

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sinxx look at pinned

marble cosmos Oct 25, 2016, 2:10 PM

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any chance of DL new build for simC? or rotation only

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@pseudo grove

hybrid leaf Oct 25, 2016, 2:11 PM

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@pseudo grove i guess Sub 19M Sims + 1 Leg are with Satyr-boots, right? I scrolled up a lil but couldn't find former post

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 2:15 PM

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by default y

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if you want more details, check spreadsheet

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but it doesn't include outlaw buffs yet

hybrid leaf Oct 25, 2016, 2:20 PM

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thx

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was just wondering, because sub 19m is really pacing up at the ilvl...but is strongly influenced by these boots i guess 😃 thx

plush relic Oct 25, 2016, 2:36 PM

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how is the gear for t19M profile, etc, chosen?

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it seems suboptimal, a lot of crit mastery for outlaw which isnt that good

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52% mastery and 42% crit, which isnt near the outlaw 4d plot ratio you had up @pseudo grove

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 2:43 PM

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I know

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We had a discussion with Sinxx

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my main issue is that

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T19M rules aren't clear

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but it -might be possible-

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that outlaw outdps sub w/ boots

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I'm redoing them

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making a T19M profile for EN/ToV/M10

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and T19M_NH with Nighthold gear

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including set bonuses

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I'll remove T19P from the spreadsheet at some point aswell

azure saddle Oct 25, 2016, 2:46 PM

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Do we have any info for sub and the stat pot? I'm guessing it's 100% better for prepot, but during the fight?

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 2:49 PM

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@azure saddle not yet, I mean I have to modify some others things before going into that

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also fight length has to be taken in consideration 😄

outer rapids Oct 25, 2016, 3:05 PM

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Isnt it an easy calculations agi_stat_weight250060*2 = damage done over 2 mins and look at that vs Old war damage done

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oh silly discord formatting: agi_stat_weight x 2500 x 60 x 2 = damage done over 2 mins

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 3:07 PM

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use ` or ```

outer rapids Oct 25, 2016, 3:08 PM

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test`test

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hmm idk what I was expecting lol

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 3:27 PM

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just to tease

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/200896243222839296/240492004985798658/Screen_Shot_2016-10-25_at_17.09.00.png

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with proper gear, Outlaw might pulls ahead 😃

keen epoch Oct 25, 2016, 3:28 PM

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proper rolls you mean

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 3:28 PM

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this spec balance discussion should go in #off-topic or #228878985210101760

white trail Oct 25, 2016, 3:32 PM

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@pseudo grove what legendaries are used in those profiles?

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 4:22 PM

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boots sub, bracers outlaw

tardy kindle Oct 25, 2016, 4:23 PM

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What happened to Outlaw to make it jump so high?

marble cosmos Oct 25, 2016, 4:25 PM

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RT dmg 50% increase

strong surge Oct 25, 2016, 4:25 PM

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I guess buff helped as well as different legendary with improved conitions for BtE usage

sly drift Oct 25, 2016, 4:30 PM

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[2:12 PM] Gravity: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=142159/bloodstained-handkerchief
Wowhead
Bloodstained Handkerchief
This epic trinket of item level 855 goes in the "Trinket" slot.
[2:12 PM] Gravity: With Karazhan coming up
[2:12 PM] Gravity: This trinket is coming out
[2:12 PM] Gravity: Do we buff this "bleed"?

Wowhead

Bloodstained Handkerchief

This epic trinket of item level 855 goes in the "Trinket" slot.

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I brought this up earlier

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And someone said theorycrafting was the place

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So the question is does it generate sin's energy

icy mango Oct 25, 2016, 4:35 PM

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We don't know yet. We'll have to test it when we get in game.

distant gate Oct 25, 2016, 5:14 PM

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Bracers for OTL are simming better than the Boots?

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 5:14 PM

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Still working it out.

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Looking like Outlaw's recent buffs might start to have it outpacing sub.

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 5:16 PM

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spec balance discussions should go in #off-topic or #228878985210101760

marble cosmos Oct 25, 2016, 6:10 PM

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@pseudo grove Any simC version with today changes, or something like that

tough goblet Oct 25, 2016, 7:15 PM

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@pseudo grove In your sims, what artifact traits are being used? It a full weapon assumed?

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:16 PM

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mythic profiles have all 34 points

carmine remnant Oct 25, 2016, 7:18 PM

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Yo Fiery, would you suggest keeping loot spec set to sub for the boots now or just keep it at law?

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:21 PM

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Not really a question for this channel but depends on your comfort level with each spec

carmine remnant Oct 25, 2016, 7:23 PM

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@rain lance Do we know where the hase numbers need to be for Outlaw atm? Stat weights not withstanding

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:24 PM

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That question doesn't make any sense, stat weights are how you should reason about stat valuation

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There isn't, at least as far as I know, a generalizable haste target for outlaw, if there is a non-generalizable one that would be communicated by stat weights

carmine remnant Oct 25, 2016, 7:25 PM

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Ah. kk

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that's what I was asking

unique forge Oct 25, 2016, 7:46 PM

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hello people. do not know if this is the right place but do we know the necessary mastery in order for MP to pull ahead of EP for AP build?

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any answer at all would be greatly appreciated

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people in general and g-m have no clue

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(i mean they told me they dont know 😛 )

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if this is not the right place please feel free to advice me where i should redirect this

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:48 PM

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Thats because there isn't one, there is no generalizable breakpoint, the only way to know is to sim yourself

unique forge Oct 25, 2016, 7:48 PM

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so we know for sure that sims work for SoT?

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(with AP ofc)

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:49 PM

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SoT?

unique forge Oct 25, 2016, 7:49 PM

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Surge of Toxins

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btw if you dont know for sure say exactly that 😃 dont tell me if its valid or not if ure 100% sure thanks 😃

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cause frankly my sim numbers are off in comparison to raid doll 5 min pulls

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 7:50 PM

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I believe SimC properly supports surge of toxins but I'm not 100% sure

unique forge Oct 25, 2016, 7:52 PM

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ok then. thank you

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:38 PM

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If i use Thraxi's boots is there a way to get stat weight for the speed stat?

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 8:39 PM

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I've been waiting for this question

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:39 PM

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I tried simming with speed scaling but i get nothing

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 8:39 PM

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the answer is I don't think so

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sorry

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I'll check with the simc folks

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:40 PM

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it would make gearing very interesting

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i would appreciate it

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:41 PM

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speed scaling!

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hmm

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i believe it's implemented

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the question is "is it implemented right"

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:43 PM

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I get nothing atleast when i try it. hmm

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:46 PM

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then it's probably broken 😃

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let's see

unique carbon Oct 25, 2016, 8:50 PM

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If anything it does spend time calculating it

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That could still mean nothing but it might mean something... :p

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:52 PM

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my conjecture after digging is that it's probably broken

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:52 PM

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ruh roh

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:52 PM

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i don't have enough time to dig further, but i'll take more of a look if i get a chance tonight

brittle umbra Oct 25, 2016, 8:53 PM

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it's a pretty irrelevant stat outside thraxi's boots so i can understand if it's broken

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:53 PM

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well, it's pretty relevant there 😃

unique carbon Oct 25, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Speaking of something being implemented or not yet... Potions of prolonged power are in and working right? I'm getting results I'd expect out of them, just wanna be sure and can't find anything obvious from the change lists

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:54 PM

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and we shouldn't leave it broken - i'll try to see what happens

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i think PoPP are in.

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minor dps loss for most specs, iirc

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but that's roughly to be expected

unique carbon Oct 25, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Compared to War/Grace you mean right?

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Yeah, definitely

chrome sun Oct 25, 2016, 8:54 PM

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correct

rapid sparrow Oct 25, 2016, 9:07 PM

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I've done some initial testing on using Kingsbane with vanish and it seems that the +50% dmg increase from nightstalker is only applied to the initial dmg and not the dot. Granted dmg values for the dot vary but I'm not seeing a high enough dmg variance to make me think nightstalker is applying to the dot.

rain lance Oct 25, 2016, 9:08 PM

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That is correct

rapid sparrow Oct 25, 2016, 9:08 PM

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Cool

pallid ridge Oct 25, 2016, 10:19 PM

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not sure if this has been said yet, but it appears that kingsbane gives 3 cp if both intial hits of kingsbane crit

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gives 2 cp if 1 crit 1 hit

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gives 1 cp if both initial hits DONT crit

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 10:24 PM

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do u have a log of it please ?

pallid ridge Oct 25, 2016, 10:25 PM

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no i do not sorry, this is just from seeing CP gains purely from kingsbane on target dummy - maybe another kind person will be able to test and log it

pseudo grove Oct 25, 2016, 10:27 PM

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would be awesome

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because I have to check the spells

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even a combatlog.txt is fine

pallid ridge Oct 25, 2016, 10:29 PM

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ok

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doing 1 now

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@pseudo grove (kingsbane purely for cp generation and evenom for cp dump)

📎 WoWCombatLog.txt

ebon maple Oct 26, 2016, 1:52 AM

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Are trinket sims up to date?

pallid halo Oct 26, 2016, 2:27 AM

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I'm posting here for visibility. Is anyone having an issue with shadowmeld not allowing them to enter stealth immediately?

alpine patrol Oct 26, 2016, 3:10 AM

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Patchwork or something else

dim pendant Oct 26, 2016, 3:57 AM

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@pseudo grove hi mate, question about your 4d plots. Are the percentages it displays the percentage displayed on your characters info pane? Or are the percentages representative of the percentage of total secondary stats?

wild quiver Oct 26, 2016, 4:23 AM

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yeah i just got an eye of command, same item level as my angerboda , wondering which to use (posions assasion / outlaw)

unreal badge Oct 26, 2016, 4:26 AM

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seems pretty sick

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 5:11 AM

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Does the Goremaw's bite % seems correct to to you guys?

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http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 6:02 AM

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Ho, I read it incorrectly.. the upper graph is per execution time.

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No sure why it's useful to show

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 6:46 AM

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it is

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 6:56 AM

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@pseudo grove what is the current simc strategy for greenskins? Use BtE when siw up?

cold dust Oct 26, 2016, 7:04 AM

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!help

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 7:12 AM

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no @white trail

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use it on CD as long as you don't have the buff already

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oO, didn't see they buffed it

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from 300% to 400%

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it does explain the thing aswell

grizzled kite Oct 26, 2016, 7:16 AM

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@pseudo grove Have you by any chance finish trinket testing :)?

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 7:16 AM

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How could I test them ?

grizzled kite Oct 26, 2016, 7:20 AM

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I ment simulation, sorry, I thought it is possible to do it

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 7:20 AM

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PS : This channel is meant for researches around the rogue, if you have question about rotations, stats weight, etc... not directly related to any simulator or theories please go to #228879234540503040 or #228878985210101760 .
About 7.1 stuff (Karazhan / ToV), as of today, we know nothing of the items.
If you have one of them, just do a 30mins-1hr dummy test with your AA only along with a /simc export to help us adding them correctly into SimC

#

warm rose Oct 26, 2016, 9:34 AM

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apologies if this is the wrong channel, but it appears as if fishbrul special isnt affected by damage modifiers anymore. its jsut a base 16990 damage whereas prior to 7.1 its damage was affected by versatility as well as EP / vendetta (at some points its damage would go above 23k for me). has anyone else noticed this? and is it still the best food?

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 10:03 AM

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it shouldn't have before @warm rose

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I remember Collision enabled wrongly but it was shown that it wasn't benefiting from any modifier

warm rose Oct 26, 2016, 10:14 AM

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all righty, thanks

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 12:28 PM

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Could it be that 850 bloodthirst sims higher than 865 horn of valor?

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Weird

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 12:29 PM

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spec ?

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 12:30 PM

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Sub

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I also checked on the dummy, but 7.1 buggs and crushes

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 12:31 PM

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I improved the on use like 1 or 2 weeks ago

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but

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if you don't have many haste, it's possible

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send the report with both trinkets compared pls

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 12:31 PM

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I have around 10%

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Im at work currently..

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If I post here l8er it's ok?

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Maybe Ill do 6 min on dummies with each

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The difference I'm getting is 2k in favor of the bloodthirst

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 12:39 PM

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I'm confused, are you talking about sims or logs ?

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twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 1:08 PM

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Sims

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 1:12 PM

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was there a hidden buff for legendary ring or it is just a bug?

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 1:13 PM

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what bug ? @arctic raft

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@twin moth we'll see with the reports

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 1:13 PM

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more dmg from crits

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 1:15 PM

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what do you mean ? do you have any logs ?

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 1:17 PM

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not yet, but it is doing kinda more % dmg overall for me in sub

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it should be around 7-8

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but now i am getting like 12+

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gonna test it in mythic ursoc today

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 1:18 PM

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just it the dummy

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do /combatlog

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and upload it somewhere

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 1:18 PM

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i am in mythic+ atm

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maybe later before raid

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 1:18 PM

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(I mean, on warcraftlog)

twin moth Oct 26, 2016, 1:22 PM

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How do I copy the report to here? Or can I u/l it somewhere?

severe ridge Oct 26, 2016, 1:32 PM

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insignia does not have 5% critt now

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 1:41 PM

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yes

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seems it's no longer base crit but normal crit

brazen jay Oct 26, 2016, 1:56 PM

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Can confirm. Insignia crits according to own crit again

small mountain Oct 26, 2016, 2:04 PM

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what does that mean? did it have a separate crit chance before?

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 2:04 PM

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before it was base crit chance, ie 5%

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now it takes in account player crit chance

small mountain Oct 26, 2016, 2:04 PM

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well if that is true then it should be best assassination legendary now

brazen jay Oct 26, 2016, 2:08 PM

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Outlaw with the insignia and wrists. Could be really sexy

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 2:12 PM

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@pseudo grove so effectively insignia double dips into crit?

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 2:12 PM

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it was before but with base crit

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now it does with player crit yes

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I would need to see if it still benefits from every multiplier

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because they might have fixed crit

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but removed this part

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although, I think it's not the case

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just make a test with SoD

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just 2 shadostrike

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then another 2 shadowstrike w/o SoD

brazen jay Oct 26, 2016, 2:15 PM

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Ill test sin passives real quick

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 2:16 PM

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I would also retest ever builder there is

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They might have fixed some of them

brazen jay Oct 26, 2016, 2:18 PM

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Sin still benefits from all the passives it did. EP ap hidden vers

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 2:19 PM

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good idea @white trail

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if someone can do it, lmk 😃

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 2:20 PM

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I can but not now

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:09 PM

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insignia doesn't seem to have changed proc pattern. FoK, poisoned knife, shuriken toss and shuriken storm still doesn't proc insignia, whereas saberslash (including extra procs), ghostly strike, pistol shot, hemo, mut, backstab, gloom blade and shadow strike does.

ember wigeon Oct 26, 2016, 3:26 PM

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and goremaw?

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 3:37 PM

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Does anyone actually have a log they can post showing ravenholdt's crit chance scaled with player crit? Because from every log I've seen of EN tonight, its still 5%~

old jungle Oct 26, 2016, 3:43 PM

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Was definitely still 5% all night for me

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:52 PM

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@willow pasture check goremaw and Kingsbane, please

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:52 PM

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on it

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:53 PM

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And just for lulz autos that trigger shadow techniques. Although I don't think it's even intended

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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don't have techniques, went the other way

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kingsbane no, goremaw no, ambush yes

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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Techniques is not a trait

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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oh, wait

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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Trait is extra cp

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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yes, so just hit ? and watch for ?

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:54 PM

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Watch for autos to proc insignia or not that proced cp

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:55 PM

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got to 6cp, no procs

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 3:59 PM

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Okay thanks

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:59 PM

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@acoustic lake http://imgur.com/a/QvqgO

Imgur

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.

brazen jay Oct 26, 2016, 3:59 PM

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http://i.imgur.com/zprzkv6.png
Not exactly a log

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But not 5% for sure

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 3:59 PM

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full atunement to kara including run, skada dump I know. But should be enough data

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 4:00 PM

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Well then I would ask the question as to why its taking players crit for some people, yet all these logs I see in EN tonight still have 5% crit

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Obviously this isn't as cut and dry as it should be

willow pasture Oct 26, 2016, 4:01 PM

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I can link logs after raid tonight

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 4:01 PM

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/T37aFdV6kCBxqvzA#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=20

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heres one I just found

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but lots of parses after patch that don't have this much crit

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Honestly, if this is an intentional change, and this ring still double dips for assassination as weaks said before, this legendary would be off the charts

crystal flax Oct 26, 2016, 4:05 PM

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@acoustic lake It was doing 14.4 % of my damage on dragon fight

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and it crit

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doing more damage than my mut lol

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 4:06 PM

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@acoustic lake why only for Assa?

tawny zinc Oct 26, 2016, 4:06 PM

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@acoustic lake Lol those are my logs, tonight I was wondering what was going on with my dps, I didnt remember seeing any assassination buffs

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 4:06 PM

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More in combat multipliers lorentz, and its base percent is 30% vs 15% for the other specs

white trail Oct 26, 2016, 4:07 PM

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Yeah I know about percentage of damage but that affects crit chance not

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 4:07 PM

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Its more that the ring was already ridiculous for assass vs the other two specs, now its stronger for all 3 of them naturally

tawny zinc Oct 26, 2016, 4:08 PM

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@acoustic lake Ring was 2nd BiS for assassination as I recall before change, now is far ahead, it was contributing to so much of my dps

acoustic lake Oct 26, 2016, 4:08 PM

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If their intention was to make people mad everytime they didn't get the ring/sub boots/outlaw bracers then they are doing a really good job

ember wigeon Oct 26, 2016, 4:16 PM

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indeed

old jungle Oct 26, 2016, 5:26 PM

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It's a really small change but I'd like to add a line to customize the APL slightly: I'd like to cast Shadow Strike in the rare circumstances that I end up with 5CP and 1 GCD available in Shadow Dance if I have the ring equipped.

chrome sun Oct 26, 2016, 5:30 PM

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@old jungle -you can file an issue on github and I'll take care of it, or a pull request adding the line directly and I'll merge.

old jungle Oct 26, 2016, 5:30 PM

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thanks Deimos, will do

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 5:35 PM

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@acoustic lake might be part of the htofix, we'll se tonight

distant gate Oct 26, 2016, 8:27 PM

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My question was regarding whether or not the trinket is implemented correctly

rain lance Oct 26, 2016, 8:35 PM

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Sorry, I may have gotten a little delete happy, as far as I know the trinkets have been updated

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 8:42 PM

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where i could submit simc bug

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regarding tb+bte combo?

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it works a bit wrong

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in simc

rain lance Oct 26, 2016, 8:43 PM

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

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you can submit issues on github

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 8:44 PM

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3037

GitHub

Outlaw bug: True Bearing + Between the Eyes · Issue #3037 · simu...

In current (and all previous) version in outlaw spec., with buff True Bearing Simc thinks BtE self-reduce CD on cast. In game it is only visual: 1) Sometimes BtE don't self-reduce CD (best variant,...

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nvm a friend of mine already did it

chrome sun Oct 26, 2016, 9:17 PM

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@arctic raft - I'm the dev on that issue - mind elaborating a bit on what the correct behavior is?

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With true bearing up, casting BTE should use up combo points, then reduce the CD on BTE; the issue is that it non-deterministically does this in-game?

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 9:18 PM

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it simply shouldnt reset itself

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yes

chrome sun Oct 26, 2016, 9:19 PM

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A five/six point BTE should take off 10-12 seconds. Does it not do that 100% of the time in game, then?

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 9:19 PM

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it never does it

chrome sun Oct 26, 2016, 9:20 PM

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True bearing explicitly calls out BTE as an affected spell; is this a blizzard bug then?

rain lance Oct 26, 2016, 9:20 PM

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Likely, its been reported to them

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I bugged cele about it earlier in the week

chrome sun Oct 26, 2016, 9:20 PM

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I'm disinclined to make simcraft changes for a bug that will probably be resolved shortly; but I suppose we can try a hotfix.

arctic raft Oct 26, 2016, 9:23 PM

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it never resetted itself tbh

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not even on alpha

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so i guess this is intended

pseudo grove Oct 26, 2016, 9:55 PM

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@chrome sun just do it with a FIXME, date and build

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I do check them almost at each patch

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if it's solved I'll enable it again

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or I can do it if u prefer

gleaming oasis Oct 26, 2016, 11:03 PM

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same, did kingsbane generating 1 cp result in extra insig procs now?

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because goremaw's bite sure doesn't proc it

wispy rivet Oct 27, 2016, 1:01 AM

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Not quite sure where to discuss this but do you guys think that the Eye of Command, the trinket from the last boss of Khara will sim better than a flat stat crit trinket specially for sin because it gives the same amount of agi and a bit more crit than a stat stick while stacking up to full in like 3 seconds?

midnight vector Oct 27, 2016, 1:13 AM

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hey someone can help me ? i have problems with simc eye of cammand (kara endboss trinket)

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 7:32 AM

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How Insignia works ? Well, it's 30% of CP generator dmg for Assa and 15% for Outlaw and Sub. The proc double dip on everything (player crit, player modifiers, target modifiers) and it doesn't proc from every builders (for example, it's only Mutilate as Assassination).
Please, if you want to share your feels about how OP it is, do it in another channel.
Deleting 100posts is not fun at all.
No more discussion about it in the channel unless you bring something new.
Check the previous pin for rules and 7.1 trinkets.
If you want an example how you can help us implementing correctly trinket on SimC, check this issue : https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3036 😃

GitHub

Ursoc's Rending Paw pooling damage when refreshed and snapshotti...

Starting in 7.1, the proc started pooling the dot damage when refreshed(like how corrupted blood of zakazj works) instead of just refreshing the base damage. It also snapshots all stats when applie...

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silent zinc Oct 27, 2016, 8:15 AM

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Good evening!

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Are the kara trinkets simming correctly in SimC?

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I just got an "Eye of Command" (865) today, loaded it into the sim and came out at a significant loss vs my Hunger of the Pack (840)

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Was about a ~7k dps loss

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 8:24 AM

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No @silent zinc, not implemented.

celest hill Oct 27, 2016, 8:30 AM

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Are you sure Aethys? My Eye of Command was a significant dps boost compared to my other trinket and it correctly showed the uptime of the buff and it also lowered my crit values correctly in the stat scaling.

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With "correctly" I mean that I thought it made sense that crit is worth a bit less after I gained like 5% because of that trinket

silent zinc Oct 27, 2016, 8:32 AM

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Well, I just tried my "Bloodstained Handkerchief" and the bleed isn't showing up under damage sources or any sort of proc at all.

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And the crit buff from Eye of Command isn't showing up anywhere on the sim results for me either. Where are you seeing uptime on the buff?

celest hill Oct 27, 2016, 8:36 AM

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It was in my buffs section with an uptime of like 99.4%. I simmed it yesterday and used the latest simc version.

silent zinc Oct 27, 2016, 8:37 AM

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Yeah, I'm using verison 703-03

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Which is up to date I believe

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It's not showing up under buffs... Weird.

celest hill Oct 27, 2016, 8:37 AM

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703-03 is very old

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701 is the latest version

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Click on the link of the first sentence "New build every.." and get the latest installer. Don't want to spam this chat though, continue this in simple questions.

silent zinc Oct 27, 2016, 8:40 AM

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kk going there now

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 8:44 AM

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@celest hill I should have said, partially implemented, the reset thing isn't in.

celest hill Oct 27, 2016, 8:44 AM

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Got it, thanks.

heady forum Oct 27, 2016, 9:39 AM

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Anyone got some information regarding the new Karazhan trinket, Bloodstained Handkerchief? Potentially insane for assasination rogues

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 9:41 AM

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From what I heard, it doesn't interact with assassination things. Not confirmed tho.

white trail Oct 27, 2016, 9:58 AM

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People reported here it interacts neither with exsang nor with venomous wounds

dense swift Oct 27, 2016, 11:15 AM

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@acoustic lake if you're still looking for crits on insignia https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4t2pbTRrmzy31C6J#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=25

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Interestingly, it has mischance as well, didn't know this.

grizzled kite Oct 27, 2016, 11:24 AM

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Where can I download simcraft 7.1 though?

dense swift Oct 27, 2016, 11:27 AM

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@grizzled kite http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

grizzled kite Oct 27, 2016, 12:22 PM

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What is changed from 7.0.3 to 7.1 build on simcraft, if I simmed on 7.0.3 will there be big change for assa?

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 12:36 PM

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@grizzled kite A lot of things. Rogues receives daily updates or so 😄

austere harbor Oct 27, 2016, 1:06 PM

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simc 7.1 have to load the exe or the other?

acoustic lake Oct 27, 2016, 1:27 PM

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@dense swift It doesn't miss, it hits a lurking terror which are immune to damage

dense swift Oct 27, 2016, 1:28 PM

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ah okey

upbeat bear Oct 27, 2016, 1:43 PM

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is the breath attack damage from natures call not calculated in the latest simc? i can see the 3 buff gains, and i can see some information about the damage breath, but it is not actually showing up as a damage source in the sim

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that is, Cleansed Drake's Breath damage proc

bitter moss Oct 27, 2016, 2:49 PM

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Have you guys considered if kingsbane will trigger insignia now they changed it to a cp builder?

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 2:49 PM

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It has been already stated that it doesn't work on

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at least, was the case yesterday.

bitter moss Oct 27, 2016, 2:51 PM

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Roger. My bad for not reading the pinned post.

torpid magnet Oct 27, 2016, 6:37 PM

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is it possible that spontaneous appendages is undervalued in sims? it's giving me more than 5% of my dmg. happy to provide tests if needed

vale portal Oct 27, 2016, 8:08 PM

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anyone know of the simc error when trying to launch? "The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-|1-1-0.dll is missing froom your computer"

silver dock Oct 27, 2016, 8:38 PM

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sounds like you're just missing a part of the program

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reinstall it and you should be fine

vale portal Oct 27, 2016, 8:42 PM

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ive tried 5 times

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=\

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and done google searches out the ars

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so I wish I could sim but I cant load it on my computer and ive tried google searching, but whens the best time to switch from Exang to AP?

dim pendant Oct 27, 2016, 9:08 PM

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Are you trying to use the mac version instead of the pc version or vice versa?

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Maybe using the 32bit instead of 64bit?

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Have you tried installing a different simc build to see if that works?

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@vale portal

vale portal Oct 27, 2016, 9:10 PM

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yes

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ive tried them all

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I have a 64 bit system but ive tried the 32

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I was going to look if simc had forums that might be able to help

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google says its something to do with a windows service pack tha tI dont have, but I cant download it

dim pendant Oct 27, 2016, 9:12 PM

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Yeah that's really strange mate :(

chrome sun Oct 27, 2016, 9:59 PM

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although i empathize with the difficulty, this isn't the place to be debugging - feel free to drop into the Simcraft IRC channel for more info

pseudo grove Oct 27, 2016, 10:32 PM

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mint jolt Oct 27, 2016, 11:08 PM

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anyone currently having issues calculating relics in simcraft or still working fine? i was able to sim possible improvements in the past but now it's simply not including the edited relic as geared 😦

potent scaffold Oct 28, 2016, 12:27 AM

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anyone know how to properly sim for movement speed with http://www.wowhead.com/item=137031/thraxis-tricksy-treads equiped

Wowhead

Thraxi's Tricksy Treads

This legendary leather armor of item level 895 goes in the "Feet" slot. It is looted.

pearl valve Oct 28, 2016, 12:41 AM

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I know may not be the right channel, but seriusly no one can give me a good answer to it. Not in forums, not in general/simple. So... I'm in the point where idk if going for AP or stay with EX. Changing my gear I can get Crit:40% haste:10% mastery:70% Versa:5% | Going for AP i can get Crit: 36% Haste: 12% Mastery: 99% Versa: 3%.
I've been trying on dummys and get better results with AP (25k more). BUT, on Simc there's a big difference as it says EXA is 25k MORE dps. I really don't know if it's better to ignore simc sometimes, or is it always right.

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Want to add: Without pots and food, agains a dummy a make 280k, when simc says 273k (elite)

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And sim adds hero/pot/food

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 12:53 AM

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SimC isn't always right but it is probably better than random dummy testing. There are a number of reasons your dps on dummy tests could diverge from SimC on a dummy test especially with a less forgivng spec like bleed assn

#

It seems quite plausible you aren't playing bleed assn optimally and it might be beneficial to link some logs of you playing bleed assn. However that log analysis should go in #off-topic or #228878985210101760

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Lots of people have asked, I'm not sure anyone has actually tested

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at least if they have they haven't talked about it, please test and report back

pearl valve Oct 28, 2016, 12:56 AM

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Right, next week i'll have logs to share. Anyways, why do you think the reason may be not playing it optimally? I'm going higher on dps than simc

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 12:57 AM

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How wwould I go about testing this? I've never done theorycrafting

small mountain Oct 28, 2016, 12:59 AM

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look at AP buff with and without bracers

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write down numbers, report 😛

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 12:59 AM

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that assumes tooltips are correct which isn't always true

small mountain Oct 28, 2016, 12:59 AM

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on a under 30% target of course

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 1:00 AM

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go find a mob that you can get to 5 stacks without killing and just swing at him for a while

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with the bracers on

#

I think shrine from MoP may also have an execute range dummy

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would would also make it easy

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just get some logs of 5 stacks above and below 30% and report back

small mountain Oct 28, 2016, 1:01 AM

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sometimes in rogue class hall the dummies are super low on hp because of ppl hitting it a lot

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garrison dummies are also easy to get low now

chrome sun Oct 28, 2016, 1:10 AM

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argent tournament dummies are perma-1hp

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always in execute range

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 2:10 AM

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@chrome sun where can i find these dummies

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just go to the argent tournament grounds

chrome sun Oct 28, 2016, 2:19 AM

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Yeah.

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 2:34 AM

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so should I just auto attack these dummies and then log it wwith and without the brancers?

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bracers*

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 2:42 AM

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basically yes worms

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 2:46 AM

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im having an issure

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when i upload the logs it only shows up to 18secs

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 2:47 AM

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odd

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 2:47 AM

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/combatlog

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right?

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then upload it

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 2:51 AM

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yeah

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delete your current log and see if that helps

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 2:52 AM

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about to raid

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ill upload more tonight

rain lance Oct 28, 2016, 2:52 AM

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ok

broken crystal Oct 28, 2016, 3:49 AM

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You guys are awesome, thanks for keeping this community afloat!

chrome sun Oct 28, 2016, 3:52 AM

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❤

small mountain Oct 28, 2016, 8:50 AM

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@quasi valley so dude did you test that or? shouldnt take more than 30 seconds to do it

brittle umbra Oct 28, 2016, 9:58 AM

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Is there any news about simming for speed weights?

slow trench Oct 28, 2016, 10:04 AM

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its Ring of Collapsing futures modeled correctly in simc?

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 10:05 AM

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@brittle umbra need to be fixed in simc core, can't do it atm

brittle umbra Oct 28, 2016, 10:08 AM

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alright, i was just curious. I will be a happy man if someone manages to fix it 😊

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 10:08 AM

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open an issue

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

brittle umbra Oct 28, 2016, 10:14 AM

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good idea

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:01 PM

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What's new to sin AP in the latest nightly build compared to the latest official simc build (Oct 04)?

I sim slightly under 20K less in the nightly build.

kindred gyro Oct 28, 2016, 12:03 PM

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What's the new simc build?

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

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http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

#

710-01

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Oct 289

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*28

kindred gyro Oct 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

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What's different

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

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No idea.

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 12:05 PM

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A lot has changed.

#

It's not the place to ask for talents, about simc build itself, there has been multiples fixes for all specs (and items). Basically, it increases the accuracy in regards to the game itself 😃

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:07 PM

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EP sims about 10K higher for me (2.3%)

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SimC is using Seed-Battered food for EPAP

kindred gyro Oct 28, 2016, 12:07 PM

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Ok good to know. Thanks.

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:09 PM

#

So I can trust the nightly build in favour of the latest official build?

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 12:10 PM

#

Nightly builds are the most (or close to) recent builds, so yes.

#

Also 7.1 changed a lot of things about how spells are handled, most of the things should be fixed but we may have missed some ^^

uneven crag Oct 28, 2016, 12:10 PM

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Thank you. Now I just need to figure out how to change which food to eat pre-pull.

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 12:11 PM

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If you find something odds, report it and we'll look into. A good habbit is to open an issue on the simc github 😃

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

it's in the APL

#

actions.precombat

potent pumice Oct 28, 2016, 12:18 PM

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After I got legendary sin bracers yesterday my bleed sin has skyrocketed ahead of my AP sim. Are they useless for AP? Or are the sims just wrong?

limber portal Oct 28, 2016, 1:53 PM

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is the new trinket off the last boss in kara able to be simmed? i have 703-03

#

or do i need to download one of the more recent nightly builds of simc?

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 1:55 PM

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nightly

limber portal Oct 28, 2016, 1:55 PM

#

thanks

regal falcon Oct 28, 2016, 1:56 PM

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i just simmed a rogue with it and it does work

#

anyone tell me the dps increase if i were to get 3x ma

#

i have 1 and got 2 rupture crit

proud quartz Oct 28, 2016, 2:00 PM

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best bet is to sim it 😃

#

but discussions for that should probably go in #off-topic or #228878985210101760

finite rune Oct 28, 2016, 3:43 PM

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So Aethys, your spreadsheet shows Exsang running higher than EP/AP etc. But simming those out seems the opposite, I'm sure you've been asked this tons already but where is the gap there?

#

actualyl NM, i'm guessing the legendary used on the sim.

pseudo grove Oct 28, 2016, 4:10 PM

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there are no more using legendary by default

#

it might simply be the gearset

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both are close tbh

finite rune Oct 28, 2016, 4:19 PM

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yeah, was kind of confused cause on dummy MP/EP+AP seems to always beat Esang, but exsang so much more situational and like you said in the video today it's alot nice when switching targets so you don't have to stack AP.

silver dock Oct 28, 2016, 5:50 PM

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hey does anyone know if MP is bugged with sims because i feel like it's not putting as high a priority on mastery for my stat weights as it should be

wintry flume Oct 28, 2016, 6:46 PM

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not sure if anyones talked about it yet but triple vendetta cd reduction reliics combined with the boots and possibly nighthold trinket.

#

could possibly be permanent vendetta

chrome sun Oct 28, 2016, 6:53 PM

#

Are you talking about Convergence of Fates?

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 7:05 PM

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im haveing an issue with combatlog again

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i do /cobatlog and start to record what im doing to the target dummy and when i upload it nothing happens

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3 times in a row

hexed stone Oct 28, 2016, 7:08 PM

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if I recall correctly combatlog only writes once a certain amount of data has been collected

#

so if you're doing /combatlog and hitting the dummy for 3 minutes that's most likely nowhere near enough data

quasi valley Oct 28, 2016, 7:09 PM

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im still new to this cobat logging stuff

modern stream Oct 28, 2016, 8:18 PM

#

Apologies if this is asked 17 times a day, but is the new Eye of Command trinket in simulationcraft yet?

wintry flume Oct 28, 2016, 8:30 PM

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yes the cooldown reduction trinket

#

im curious if trying to obtain a near constant uptime of vendetta is worth sacrificing other relics

thick heath Oct 28, 2016, 8:41 PM

#

Wunju - Yesterday at 5:59 PM
look at AP buff with and without bracers
write down numbers, report 😛

#

whats to report? it doesnt increase AP, i got them

hard lion Oct 28, 2016, 8:58 PM

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yeah i would love to see Eye of command in the simcraft :y

tidal juniper Oct 28, 2016, 9:18 PM

#

can someone link me the simcraft string with assassination weapon with 3 master assassin relics 845-850

modern stream Oct 28, 2016, 9:23 PM

#

According to the relic spreadsheet the master alchemist trait isnt correct in simulation craft, is that still true?

blissful kindle Oct 28, 2016, 9:48 PM

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!trinkets

dusky pecan Oct 28, 2016, 10:01 PM

#

Ring of collapsing futures is not simmed correctly, isnt it?

#

It shows no additional dmg source

#

so on use effect is not simmed?

potent pumice Oct 28, 2016, 10:44 PM

#

SnD sims only about 4% lower than MfD for me now, can that be right or is there something wrong with the sims atm?

tawny zinc Oct 28, 2016, 10:56 PM

#

Is there a new simcraft profile, an up to date one?

vernal bloom Oct 28, 2016, 11:10 PM

#

Hey guys, quick question does Blurred time affect CotDB now?

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 12:14 AM

#

hey, did anyone make sims for outlaw rogues with pistol shot build/pistol shot legendaries? i'd imagine they are very different from regular outlaw sims

#

i think i saw fiery demise was looking into it after the CP generator buffs

#

didn't see any sims for it yet though

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 12:28 AM

#

check my spreadsheet

stiff dew Oct 29, 2016, 12:30 AM

#

anyone try opening with kingsbane with nightstalker? worth it?

prisma sail Oct 29, 2016, 1:32 AM

#

http://i.imgur.com/gASXWBx.png how does this work with agonising poison team? is it better to go exang with it or nah?

acoustic compass Oct 29, 2016, 1:41 AM

#

Ap doesnt scale with the bracers, but i still do better with AP.

prisma sail Oct 29, 2016, 1:48 AM

#

fair thanks for that, ill test it out

#

feelsgoodman that i probs got the best legendary now the ring has been nerf'd

summer umbra Oct 29, 2016, 2:21 AM

#

idk if this fits into theorycrafting but is there anyway to avoid the obnoxious double saberslash during dreadblades

white trail Oct 29, 2016, 2:21 AM

#

Move that discussion to #off-topic or #228878985210101760 @fervent oar

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 3:08 AM

#

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but can someone tell me how i can simulate relics? I just got the legendary boots for sub and im 90% sure what relics i want to get has changed a lot

thorny patrol Oct 29, 2016, 3:10 AM

#

last page of the sim yourself guide the bot just posted in #228879234540503040 covers doing relics

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 3:11 AM

#

thanks a lot will check it out

soft salmon Oct 29, 2016, 3:12 AM

#

one of my guild mates said that blizz nerfed, or changed something with sub over the last few days. that true?

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 3:15 AM

#

i haven't seen any sub changed outside of PvP where they nerfed every rogue spec

bright sparrow Oct 29, 2016, 4:25 AM

#

Actively play sub, have not noticed any changes

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 4:29 AM

#

Another question. anyone knows how [Spontaneous Appendages] does outside of simulations? got an 880 version of it and wondering if it's better than Memento of Angerboda 860

#

And simulations show Spontaneus as a waste of a trinket spot while the ingame seems to differ some

bright sparrow Oct 29, 2016, 4:30 AM

#

Probably not. Appendages is good for classes that have important procs (stormbringer for enh) but my sims essentially agree with ingame testing

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 4:30 AM

#

okay thanks. ill keep it in my bank then. Sad that most raid trinkets seem to not be worth for sub

dusky pecan Oct 29, 2016, 6:20 AM

#

Ring of collapsing futures is not simmed correctly, isnt it? I don't get any new damage sources shown when simed

velvet coral Oct 29, 2016, 6:23 AM

#

then its not added to the new simulationcraft yet

#

they are still working on adding all things in 7.1

#

just to make sure, are you using version 710-01?

plush relic Oct 29, 2016, 6:35 AM

#

At all the bracer questions: they aint worthless with agonizing. Agonizing dmg buff makes rupture hit really hard. And it gets further Buffed with the bracers. The synergy isnt just as obvious as with exs

sand nova Oct 29, 2016, 8:01 AM

#

hey aethys, i might be missing something but the source for the outlaw ST legendary sims doesnt correspond to what's shown on the spreadsheet

#

http://simc.aethys.eu/rog_otl_t19m_1t_legendaries.html

#

^ those sims show greenskins as being significantly lower in proportion to the other legendaries than what the spreadsheet displays

#

were they not updated?

small mountain Oct 29, 2016, 9:27 AM

#

guys this isnt a fucking #228879234540503040 section

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 11:16 AM

#

source isn't updated @sand nova

#

that is my bad but I can't atm, anyway, they seems to have hotfixed insignia and maybe more, so I'll have to update it again

woven ruin Oct 29, 2016, 11:41 AM

#

lol wunju

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 11:42 AM

#

Tooltip of Insignia of Ravencrest has been updated to 35% for assass, 20% for sub. Initial testing suggest that it no longer double dips into modifiers, as it doesn't scale up with versatility (checked with and without vers gear) and symbols of death. Furthermore, it seems as if it no longer double dips in crit, but rolls it's crit independantly of the attack that causes the insignia to proc. Thus the insignia portion does a percentage of the non crit dmg of the attack, and then rolls it's own crit chance.

#

More testing needs be done, and if I can do anything let me know

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 11:48 AM

#

Just do logs and I'll analyze them :)
And yes, what you said is also what I've seen from logs except the crit part one.

plush relic Oct 29, 2016, 11:55 AM

#

@willow pasture so overall the insignia of ravencrest got nerfed/fixed and does now significantly less dmg than b4 7.1 ?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 11:58 AM

#

for assassination it's huge. Not sure it's that bad for sub and might even be a buff to outlaw

plush relic Oct 29, 2016, 12:01 PM

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it was insane on assa just 3 days ago where i got it, 2nd in dmg on almost every boss, now its behind mutilate 2hand dmg 😭

#

Hey are there any new Trinkets of Karazhan which are rly strong or do they don't matter?

#

eye of command from the last boss

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 12:30 PM

#

@plush relic quick overview would said that's it almost makes no changes for sub, is a buff in outlaw except maybe with gs, is a nerf for assa AP

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 3:13 PM

#

Tested mutilate and insignia with every permutation of vendetta, AP and EP

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AtKG9MCfcaNgHb6J/#type=auras&source=1

#

Ignore the sub 1minute fights

#

fights are in order:
Nothing
Vendetta
AP
Vendetta+AP
EP
EP+AP
EP+Vendetta
EP+Vendetta+AP

#

Note that it appears vendetta has no effect at all on the insignia dmg

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 3:52 PM

#

it didn't have any effect before

#

because vendetta is flagged for some spells only

#

ty for the log anyway 😃

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 3:53 PM

#

np, ask if there's anything more I can do

#

insignia does aproximate 30.915% of the attacks that caused it in all the fights that doesn't involve vendetta

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 3:54 PM

#


00:00:35.389    Légs Mutilate Off-Hand Dungeoneer's Training Dummy *62486*

00:00:35.412    Légs Insignia of Ravenholdt Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 14298

00:00:35.412    Légs Insignia of Ravenholdt Dungeoneer's Training Dummy *14860*```

#

interesting, looks like it ignore the crit portion of the mutilate

#

would need to see more to be sure

#

on what exactly happens there

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 3:54 PM

#

yes, as I mentioned in my initial testing, it appears to roll it's seperate crit chance, and only off of base dmg of the mutlate

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 3:55 PM

#


00:00:36.396    Légs Mutilate Off-Hand Dungeoneer's Training Dummy *61843*

00:00:36.415    Légs Insignia of Ravenholdt Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 17874

00:00:36.415    Légs Insignia of Ravenholdt Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 7353```

#

yes, that seems to be right 😃

#

that was really my only concern

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 3:56 PM

#

well, then there's the thing about it doing less than the stated 35% in my testing. So something else is going on, unless you know why that's the case

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 3:59 PM

#

yes

#

it's more around 20-25% than 35% ^^

#

it might be the dmg without modifier

#

like ignoring the agonizing bonus from the mutilate dmg

#

and ep

#

things like that

#

seems dumb but who knows

#

after fucked up the "buff", they fucked up the nerf

#

since it now takes the dmg without taking in consideration the crit

#

I wouldn't be surprised if they fucked up that

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:01 PM

#

It's doing the same ratio of mutilate to insignia dmg for all permutations not including vendetta

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:01 PM

#

by applying the wrong flag

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:01 PM

#

so it's definately including agonizing and ep, just not double dipping

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:02 PM

#

ok, was an idea

#

didn't checked the entire logs, only a quick look

#

speed scaling on simc is fixed btw 😃

#

hmm

#

is 23% the dmg ?

#

because they might have fucked the assa buff to the insignia

#

ie, instead of doing 0.2 + 0.15

#

0.2 + (0.2*0.15)

#

^^

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:04 PM

#

I got it to 30.915

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:05 PM

#

would have to put everything in a spreadsheet to see

summer finch Oct 29, 2016, 4:06 PM

#

you think insignia is now misbehaving?

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:09 PM

#

0.309152583
0.309156346
0.309178934```

#

well, wondering

#

will look at spell data

#

besides the up from 15% to 20% and the fact it doesn't benefit from modifier, I don't see much there

#

I asked Collission if there are new ones or not

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:19 PM

#

Just did a quick check with sub. I got the same results as with assass, doing roughly 88.3% of the tooltip dmg
17.666% instead of 20% as sub, 30.915% instead of 35% as assass

#

So atleast it's consistent in being inaccurate

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:24 PM

#

hmm

#

thanks

#

❤

#

may you try

#

to change your gear

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:27 PM

#

I did

#

no effect

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:27 PM

#

ok

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:27 PM

#

I just changed dummy thogh

#

and that had effect

#

really strange one

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:27 PM

#

well

#

might be armor thing

#

but as shadow dmg, weird

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:28 PM

#

as level of dummy increased, insignia portion increased

#

110 dummy 20.2%

#

112 dummy 20.6%

#

raider dummy 20.8%

#

as sub

#

only quick tests, so no logs sorry

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:29 PM

#

by portion, what do u mean ?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:29 PM

#

if you want I can run a few, just state how you want them and I will conduct

#

shadow strike to insignia, insignia did the mentioned percentage of the shadow strike dmg

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:31 PM

#

20.2% looks like 20% for me

#

while 30.9% doesn't looks like 35% for me

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:31 PM

#

and 17.666 doesn't look like 20

#

my logs were run on the 103 dummy in garrison

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:32 PM

#

oh

#

no

#

not that 😢

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:32 PM

#

that was bad ?

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:32 PM

#

Collision told me

#

that the garrison dummies has some issues

#

and it's a 103 one

#

may you try in the one in sw/orgri ?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:32 PM

#

sure

#

shorter runs though :p

#

10 instance of attacks enough ?

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:33 PM

#

yes

#

just 10 Shadowstrike is enough

#

we don't care about modifier, they doesn't work after all 😄

#

or at least, it seems

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:38 PM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F6VdTxjBzhQnCYfM/#type=damage-done&source=1

#

shadow strike no symbols, raider dummy, more tests will show up as I live log it

#

fair enough, then I'll conclude here

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:41 PM

#

seems to be 20% for the first 3 I saw

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:41 PM

#

slightly above

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:41 PM

#

yes

#

what's ur versa ?

#

can't find it on logs

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:42 PM

#

2724/6.81%

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:43 PM

#

how many % is the artifact obnus ?

#

4% ?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:43 PM

#

yes

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:43 PM

#

the first trait

#

we got our winner

#

😃

#

0.208

#

with the artifact trait

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:44 PM

#

hopefully

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:44 PM

#

I think it is that

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:44 PM

#

well, when I hit 110 dummy in training hall, as I mentioned I got 20.2% and 20.6 when I hit the 112

#

so to me it seems more likely to be target level related somehow

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:45 PM

#

maybe

#

how does it changes for assa / outlaw ?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:45 PM

#

sec

#

same 20.87 as outlaw

#

36.53 as assass

#

so assass seems different

#

4% vs 3%

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:50 PM

#

wait what ?

#

it was 30.9% before

#

oh, on the other dummy

#

hmm

#

I think it takes a different amoun of base dmg

#

that would explain the difference between all the dummies

#

since they don't have the same mitigation

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 4:52 PM

#

It sounds very reasonable

#

if you want I can try to find some willing targets for amor testing, to see if it has any effect

#

or does pvp implicate more issues ? not really aware of how the pvp modifiers relate

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:54 PM

#

since it doesn't benefits from modifier, it shouldn't much

#

you can try

#

we'll see

#

take someone

#

do a test with X armor

#

then the same with another amount of armor

#

but it might be related to level and not armor

#

I'm not expert there, maybe @rain lance could explain us how the dmg are exactly calculated 😃

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 4:56 PM

#

armor multipliers?

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:56 PM

#

armor and level

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 4:57 PM

#

Armor mitigation on a target is computed from 2 values, attacker K and target armor

#

https://github.com/Fierydemise/ShadowCraft-Engine/blob/legion/shadowcraft/objects/class_data.py#L40

GitHub

Fierydemise/ShadowCraft-Engine

ShadowCraft-Engine - Calculations backend for ShadowCraft, a WoW theorycraft project.

#

the tables are there

upbeat bear Oct 29, 2016, 4:58 PM

#

do you know if simcrafters need a log for natures call damage proc btw? ive noticed its not showing up as a damage source in the sims, but it has a damage proc

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 4:58 PM

#

armor mitigation is k/(k+armor)

#

for an npc you look up armor in the base armor table, for a player you take their armor value

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 4:59 PM

#

shadow damage isn't affected by armor at all though is it

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:59 PM

#

@upbeat bear open an issue and put your log in as proof, someone will take care of it https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

yes @latent wraith

upbeat bear Oct 29, 2016, 4:59 PM

#

alright ty

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 4:59 PM

#

but that is weird that changing dummy changes the ratio

#

isn't there some sort of modifier for lvl difference ?

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:01 PM

#

below 100 I believe

#

basically only use 110+ dummies to test

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:01 PM

#

the ring did proportionally more damage on higher level dummies though

#

that's the reason for the confusion right?

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 5:02 PM

#

yes

#

so on a boss "it would" deal a bit more dmg

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:02 PM

#

armor seems to have an impact

#

tried on a paladin, same gear, just changed between holy and ret

#

23% shadow strike dmg as insiniga for holy, 20,72% for ret

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:03 PM

#

maybe it is using pre-mitigation damage

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:03 PM

#

thats what i just wanted to say

#

maybe the ring calculates damage with an expected armor value

#

if the armor value is higher than expected the proportion of the ring damage is bigger

visual abyss Oct 29, 2016, 5:04 PM

#

does the hankerchief proc venom rush?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

5578 armor in holy (43.01% mitigation)
4291 armor in ret (36.73% mitigation)

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:06 PM

#

is there some base armor for level 110 mobs?

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:08 PM

#

3144

#

ok lets do this, how much damage did mutilate do on the holy and ret with those armor values

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

shadow strike on ret: 91500 and 92036, insignia 18961 and 19072

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:12 PM

#

you dealt ~13% more physical damage to the ret due to lower armor and the ring dealt 11% more damage to the holy than to the ret

#

seems reasonable to assume that its working with expected armor values?

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

what do you mean by expected armor values? Seems very possible it is just using pre-mitigation damage

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:13 PM

#

shadow strike on holy: 76453 and crit 120345, insignia 17588 and crit 27686

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:14 PM

#

pre any mitigation? then it would deal way more than 20% of the CP generator wouldnt it

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:14 PM

#

well that we have to figure out, but pre-armor mitigation is absolutely a mechanic blizzard uses

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:14 PM

#

i mean when he tested it on the dummies it dealt 20.2% to the 110 and 20.8% to the raid boss

#

those values would be way higher if it was pre-armor mitigation

#

Legs - Heute um 18:28 Uhr
as level of dummy increased, insignia portion increased
110 dummy 20.2%
112 dummy 20.6%
raider dummy 20.8%

#

^thats why i think it could work with expected armor values

#

so the ring would calculate the damage pre any mitigation but would consider an expected armor value

#

and not actually take into account the armor value of the target

#

and that expected armor value might be the level110 base armor

#

i actually dont know much about how damage is applied in wow so just ignore me if what i say is very unlikely

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:18 PM

#

based on those pvp values it looks like pre-armor mitigation

#

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rk7p-Q_Wl39gD6SrfRabEJn3baYDjvvMCj-ntiNRA8I/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Insig Computation PvP

Sheet1 armor, ssk1, ssk2, insig1, insig2, mitigation, mult, ssk1pre, ssk2pre, insig1%, insig2% holy, 5578, 76453, 120345, 17588, 27686, 0. 5698642813, 1. 754803789, 134160. 0141, 211181. 862, 0. 1310971836, 0. 1311002741 ret, 4291, 91500, 92036, 18961, 19072, 0. 6326513141, 1. 580649526, 1446...

#

the insig% lines come in very close to the same at 13.1% using pre-armor damage

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:23 PM

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for the pvp values i agree

#

however how can the insignia possibly only deal 20.8% damage on the raider dummy if its entirely pre armor mitigation

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:23 PM

#

if you want me to run more tests, just clarify which and how and I'll upload a log

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:24 PM

#

super simple, lets repeat taht dummy test, just give me 2 ssks on a 110 dummy, 2 on 112, 2 on 113 (Raid)

#

don't need a full log, just write out the values

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:24 PM

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ok

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 5:26 PM

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wait a second while testing i just noticed the insignia damage completly ignores if the CP multiplier is critting now?

#

did they change that yesterday or was that a thing for long?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:27 PM

#

110 dummy: shadow strike 131668 and 143414, insignia crit 53302 and crit 58058

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112 dummy: shadow strike 141068 and 127714, insignia crit 58300 and 26391

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Raider dummy: shadow strike 141742 and 127347, insignia 29590 and crit 53168

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:31 PM

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ok this isn't a full solution buts its closer

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@pseudo grove clearly the ring is using pre-armor damage

#

and looks like indepentant crit rolls

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:34 PM

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yes, even my previous log is bad for damage values it atleast somewhat confirmed indiviual crit rolls, and that they are consistant with player crit

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:35 PM

#

next question is why we aren't seeing exactly 15% from pre-armor

#

legs, how many points in ssk damage traits do you have

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:36 PM

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3

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:38 PM

#

what T15 talent were you using?

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:38 PM

#

wm

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no mos

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:38 PM

#

ok

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 5:39 PM

#

but it's a fair point, since I have 15% to both shadow strike and saber slash from traits, and that could be why they had a insignia ratio than my muts, relatively speaking

#

had a higher*

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 5:40 PM

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yeah, not entirely sure but we have more information now than we did before

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 5:50 PM

#

yes

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I have to afk, seems interesting, will see when I'll be back

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 6:02 PM

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wait @rain lance why were you talking about 15% btw

#

the ring was buffed to 20%

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 6:02 PM

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yeah my bad, still can't get it to 20% by taking out modifiers

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 6:02 PM

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ah aight

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 6:03 PM

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I'll be available if you want me to collect more data

latent wraith Oct 29, 2016, 6:04 PM

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also fierydemise i read on your twitter that you are a believer in the bracer+ring pistol shot outlaw build

#

any chance you could do some sims comparing that to assassin on ST

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i'm convinced they are competitive

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 6:04 PM

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that discussion should go in a different channel, but I haven't done much in the way of stack sims

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 6:07 PM

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I'm about to do a brh +7. Want me to log it ?

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 6:07 PM

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go for it

vestal echo Oct 29, 2016, 6:15 PM

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Could it be that the March of the Legion set-bonus is not implemented?

#

its the one that does fire damage to demons

rain lance Oct 29, 2016, 6:16 PM

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In SimC? @pseudo grove

vestal echo Oct 29, 2016, 6:16 PM

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yeah

ebon maple Oct 29, 2016, 6:50 PM

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so, I am legit terrible with simcraft, howevr is there anything I can do to help with the trinket sims list (if anyone is even working on that)

willow pasture Oct 29, 2016, 6:56 PM

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zrb9NMdTj814YnWP/#phase=4&type=summary

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 8:15 PM

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@vestal echo I don't think it is

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didn't checked

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but since the ilvl is really low, not sure one bothered implemented it for potential titanforged

vestal echo Oct 29, 2016, 8:42 PM

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@pseudo grove Just wondered if it would be a dps increase for xavius despite the ilvl and stats

grand cypress Oct 29, 2016, 10:48 PM

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any news when simc will be updated for khara trinkets? i have eye of command 860 and its showing 9k dps lower than a 855 vers stat stick which is impossible

pseudo grove Oct 29, 2016, 11:19 PM

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@grand cypress Open an issue with report (or profile at least) 😃 https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

plush relic Oct 30, 2016, 1:46 AM

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Is there any way to test if roll the bones is truly random? I've been using it to run m+ and I think blizzard has actually heightened the chance for 2+ buffs

icy mango Oct 30, 2016, 1:50 AM

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Go in game and reroll your buffs for a while and write down the results

plush relic Oct 30, 2016, 1:52 AM

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Hello all, I have a prob with simcraft! 😃

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My simcraft say i should have 280-410K dps, for 328k~. So when i look the sequence table.. i have this:

#

stealth, potion_of_the_old_war
Pre symbols_of_death Fluffy_Pillow 100.0/100: 100% energy | 0.0/6: 0% combo_points stealth, symbols_of_death, death, potion_of_the_old_war
0:00.000 shadowstrike Fluffy_Pillow 100.0/100: 100% energy | 0.0/6: 0% combo_points stealth, symbols_of_death, death, potion_of_the_old_war
0:01.005 nightblade Fluffy_Pillow 87.2/100: 87% energy | 5.0/6: 83% combo_points bloodlust, stealth, subterfuge, symbols_of_death, potion_of_the_old_war
0:02.010 shadowstrike Fluffy_Pillow 100.0/100: 100% energy | 0.0/6: 0% combo_points bloodlust, stealth, subterfuge, symbols_of_death, finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war
0:03.015 shadow_blades Fluffy_Pillow 74.9/100: 75% energy | 2.0/6: 33% combo_points bloodlust, symbols_of_death, finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war

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0:03.015 shadow_dance Fluffy_Pillow 74.9/100: 75% energy | 2.0/6: 33% combo_points bloodlust, symbols_of_death, shadow_blades, finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war
0:03.015 shadowstrike Fluffy_Pillow 100.0/100: 100% energy | 2.0/6: 33% combo_points bloodlust, shadow_dance, symbols_of_death, shadow_blades, finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war
0:04.019 eviscerate Fluffy_Pillow 89.9/100: 90% energy | 6.0/6: 100% combo_points bloodlust, shadow_dance, symbols_of_death, shadow_blades, finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war
0:05.024 shadowstrike Fluffy_Pillow 100.0/100: 100% energy | 0.0/6: 0% combo_points bloodlust, shadow_dance, symbols_of_death, shadow_blades, finality_eviscerate(6), finality_nightblade(5), potion_of_the_old_war

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This is a totaly fucked pull. Impossible to get 5 cp ( finality_nightblade(5)) with only 1 sec fight and just one Shadowstricke

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And the fight is like this all along the fight..

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so.. someone know why the table sequence give that sort of .. shit?

pseudo grove Oct 30, 2016, 3:09 AM

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what are you talking about ?

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you cast nightblade at 1s

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so you get the finality buff for the next one after that

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were u using weaponmaster ?

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and premed

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looks like a shadowstrike proc along with shadow techniques

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hence the 5 cp

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@plush relic

marble cosmos Oct 30, 2016, 3:14 AM

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@pseudo grove SimC updated for trinkets/last changes?

pseudo grove Oct 30, 2016, 3:17 AM

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it depends

marble cosmos Oct 30, 2016, 3:47 AM

#

?

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depends on?

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@pseudo grove

formal tartan Oct 30, 2016, 3:59 AM

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Any math on Bloodstained Hankerchief from Moroes?

pseudo grove Oct 30, 2016, 4:14 AM

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rogues changes are all in, gear changes it depends

marble cosmos Oct 30, 2016, 4:29 AM

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need to downlod again?

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for rogue changes?

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@pseudo grove :p

silver jungle Oct 30, 2016, 9:47 AM

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@pseudo grove Any changes with the beta 7.1 to AP? Simming ~4% lower with much different stat weights

silver jungle Oct 30, 2016, 10:46 AM

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@manic pulsar any changes with agonizing poison in Simcraft 7.1 that you know of that would cause a DPS loss and significant stat weight changes?

pseudo grove Oct 30, 2016, 11:23 AM

#

Please, don't spam here things not related to tc, don't want to spend my afternoon deleting messages, ty.

#

And if you're interested in rogue changes, check this :

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commits/legion-dev/engine/class_modules/sc_rogue.cpp

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

it sums up every changes in the rogue module

#

most of the time, navv and me explain what we do ^^

pseudo grove Oct 30, 2016, 12:18 PM

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about the haste thing and sub, do remember that the APL is playing really well and depending on your latency, you might need a bit more.

thick heath Oct 30, 2016, 4:10 PM

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On the Spreadsheet, any chance just for the simmed mean parse with top talents, of stat distribution that was used to achieve it... aka 35 crit 100 master 6 verse 10 haste, or whatever it would be. Would be cool to see.

restive tulip Oct 30, 2016, 10:30 PM

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Has the Ring of Collapsing Future's on use been worked into Simcraft yet??

plush relic Oct 30, 2016, 11:59 PM

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Ok so I dont understand blurred time, since the time reduction on the CD is returned at the end of AD it doesnt do anything

#

AR*

rain lance Oct 31, 2016, 1:46 AM

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@plush relic It restores based on percentage, so it does something but not a ton. Consider AR has 180 second CD, now with BT during AR it's cd goes to 108 seconds (60% of normal), now for those 15 seconds time passes as normal, so when cd ends there are 93 seconds left on the CD. 93/108=86.11% so when you restore to 180 seconds the cd returns to 86.11% of the 180 second CD or 155 seconds. Without BT after AR ends the CD would be 165 seconds so it sames you 10 seconds

plush relic Oct 31, 2016, 1:47 AM

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I see, thx, i noticed it on average takes about 2.25 sec off Artifact CD

rain lance Oct 31, 2016, 1:48 AM

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Where it can be very strong is if you have TB up during AR, that way you can effectively "snapshot" that CDR on a lower duration when it is much more impactful. In theory you might be able to save AR for TB and fish aggressively but in practice we can't make that work

plush relic Oct 31, 2016, 1:48 AM

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Exactly what i was just testing 😃 But will end up being unsuable for most mythic progression as you tend to save cds anyway

#

BUt thx a lot for the explanantion

#

Appreciate it!

oblique lake Oct 31, 2016, 2:10 AM

#

Does insignia affect shadow strikes position in the APL with respect to the target count when shadow strike is switched for shuriken storm?

willow pasture Oct 31, 2016, 3:19 AM

#

am I correct to asume that weaponmaster cannot trigger for eviscerate ?

#

it seems to be modelled as if it can in simc, though I have been unable to find such an event in any of my logs.

rain lance Oct 31, 2016, 3:26 AM

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the "weaponmaster" damage source in logs is just rupture ticks, everything else appears as a normal cast

willow pasture Oct 31, 2016, 3:28 AM

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My point is, the number of eviscerate instances never exceeds the number of eviscerate casts, which is the case for shadow strike and backstab. I took the extra instances as weaponmaster procs, yet they do not appear for eviscerate

#

so was just wondering whether it happened to be the case that it could not happen.

rain lance Oct 31, 2016, 3:31 AM

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looks like WM evis appear is logs as normal casts but it does proc it

#

look at 1:12 in this log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/12WqXHL9jdtnaPkY#fight=21&type=damage-done&source=29&ability=196819&view=events

#

00:01:12.467    Stabem Eviscerate Nythendra *924032*```

willow pasture Oct 31, 2016, 3:32 AM

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thanks

uneven crag Oct 31, 2016, 10:00 AM

#

The opener in simc seems wrong. It's not doing a first rupture to get pandemic on the nightstalked rupture.

And it's not delaying Kingsbane to sync it with Vendetta with 3xMA relics.

#

That's with AP spec. For Exsang spec, it delaysa.

#

And even takes benefit of pandemic for first rupture in the opener (exsang)

#

Might be a reason why people are seeing EP EX specs doing about the same DPS as EP AP specs.

marble cosmos Oct 31, 2016, 3:24 PM

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Used to play EP/AP ages, this simC put my Ep/EX way ahead :/

#

Also i got 3MA relics, and simC shows its a 20k dps loss

#

Looking for a fix, or someone to confirm if that is wrong

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:03 PM

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@uneven crag Actually

#

That's because it's a DPS loss to pandemic the first Rupture

winged lily Oct 31, 2016, 5:04 PM

#

so

#

825, 845 and 855 vendetta relics

#

can i put 'em in yet? puh-leeeeeez?

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:05 PM

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3 of a kind is a winner

winged lily Oct 31, 2016, 5:05 PM

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even with an 825?

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

You can sim it for an accurate answer, but my feeling would be a yes

winged lily Oct 31, 2016, 5:05 PM

#

mmk

#

running 2x rupture dmg and 1x poison dmg atm

#

thought maybe i needed to wait for an 840 to round the trio out.

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:07 PM

#

That's a question for #228879234540503040 though

plush relic Oct 31, 2016, 5:27 PM

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With AP the first rupture should be applief without pandemic

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:33 PM

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Exactly: build to 6CP (+ KB/Vendetta) > vanish > Rupture

plush relic Oct 31, 2016, 5:41 PM

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i thought you wanted to use KB after envenom?

sand nova Oct 31, 2016, 5:42 PM

#

skasch, dps loss with the inital pandemic aside, is it possible to modify the apl with 3x ma relics to delay kingsbane for vendetta?

plush relic Oct 31, 2016, 5:42 PM

#

i usually go garotte mut mut vanish rupture vendetta mut mut envenom kingsbane

sand nova Oct 31, 2016, 5:42 PM

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continuing from prolonged power's question

elfin jackal Oct 31, 2016, 5:47 PM

#

@manic pulsar does poisen knives give the same benefit to AP damage as master alchemist?

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 5:49 PM

#

@sand nova I think I tested it already but I will double check

sand nova Oct 31, 2016, 5:50 PM

#

oki doki ty

marble cosmos Oct 31, 2016, 6:12 PM

#

@manic pulsar

#

simC is simming OK with 3 MA relic?

#

cuz its sims rly low for me, i got 860 855 840

#

loose dps for EX or AP builds

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 6:16 PM

#

Should be ok, but might fancy some improvements yet ^^

merry radish Oct 31, 2016, 6:17 PM

#

I know this isn't the appropriate place to ask, but discussion is currently relevant, how much higher is the triple MA simming

#

Roughly

manic pulsar Oct 31, 2016, 6:18 PM

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Depends.

merry radish Oct 31, 2016, 6:19 PM

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Should have expected that, haha

strong surge Oct 31, 2016, 6:19 PM

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We should add command for triple MA relics question