Assuming the tooltips are correct, which is always a dangerous assumption
#tc-updates
rain lance
brazen jay
And again, all these tooltips match my math in the pastebin
And in game testing with envenom, rupture and garrote ticks
rain lance
ok, I haven't had a chance to go through it yet
I've got assorted meetings for the next couple hours then I'll take a crack at this if you'll be around
formal canyon
@rain lance is there a way to make the artifact relics reflect the correct iLvl?
vestal echo
Could it be that energy refund from energetic stabbing happens more regularly if you have akaari's soul?
rain lance
@formal canyon in shadowcraft? we're working on that right now
formal canyon
@rain lance yes
plush relic
the energy refund does not come from akarari's soul, if that's what you're asking
i've tested that, her soul rips dont return energy
left basin
I'm looking for some rogues (all specs) that have the plaguehive trinket, and a log with it.
I'm trying to figure out exactly what can proc it.
proven nymph
My guess would be Pistol Shot and Cacconball Barrage for Outlaw, Nightblade for Subtlety. I'll see if I can get a normal one to test it out.
zinc oriole
Late but weaponmaster can proc energetic stabbing
wicked lark
@rain lance could u give an update here if there is anything new about the master poisoner topic?
rain lance
@brazen jay ok let me make sure I follow this, so using line 68, 10340 mastery comes out to 1.314 mastery multiplier, but I don't see how to get the 8.8% value for a single stack of AP using the ((mast/2)+0.09)*1.2 formula you gave 2 days ago
rain lance
oh hey I was using the wrong mastery coeff
@brazen jay where is that magic 4 coefficient in the formula coming from?
(sorry if I'm being slow on this)
rain lance
so (1.75+0.09)1.24=8.832 per stack
so its multiplicative with base ap value
god thats weird
brazen jay
Is that a discord formatting error or did I use 1.24 as a multiplier somewhere?
brazen jay
Yes
rain lance
gotta put a space in
brazen jay
With my 150% mastery
rain lance
right
Alright thanks for all your work and I'll get this updated in ShC, navv will get it in SimC
brazen jay
Cool
rain lance
such a dumb mechanic
brazen jay
I mean
Surge is a bit weird aswell
Dont know how it is modeled, but with my findings it is just another multiplier to ago poisons strength for the duration of the surge buff.
And the modifier is 1% per combo point per stack of agonizing poison.
brazen jay
Capping at 5 combos if you are running DS
So 5CP finisher would be another 1.25 modifier
The stronger ago is applied after you apply ago after the finisher
And lasts until you refresh ago when surge has fallen off
So there is a tiny room for minmaxing a stronger ago poison for a few seconds
spring juniper
Pooling after Surge falls off might be an idea if you can't refresh Surge immediately. But yea. that's all the math right there. Good to see it being implemented! Was fun calculating!
brazen jay
One final note on surge and agonizing poison. You get both benefits. The 10% poison damage increase and the stronger agonizing poison.
And the poison damage increase works off combo points the same way. 2% combo point and caps at 10% even if you are playing DS and use a 6 CP finisher
balmy pine
are the legendary bracers working in the execute phase with the ago poison ?
brazen jay
Havent got my hands on the bracers so cant say
balmy pine
me too, but would be nice to know. 40% more ago poison effeckt in execute seems to be the way to go with this leg
glacial quiver
So it's more beneficial to use 5 caps rather than 6 cp envenoms ?
I saw snap shotting poison ticks ... 😩
brazen jay
on the bright side, sin has some actual in depth minmaxing :p
glacial quiver
Do certain levels of mastery start to give DR or is it just a flat gain of poison damage ?
brazen jay
Which part
glacial quiver
Because I keep seeing people bouncing from one % mastery to another saying this is most optimal when in reality I have no idea what's good
The non ago part
brazen jay
You mean just general mastery level for playing ap builds?
rain lance
People want a hard threshold but that is very hard to compute in a general sense
brazen jay
Yeah, and if you ask me you just pick the piece of gear that you get from raid. And people tend to forget the genral rule of math; the more you get one stat the worse the next point usually becomes.
Sin does however seem to have a lot of multiplicative modifiers and double dipping
glacial quiver
I think one of the more unique masteries, not a rogue forgive me , is MM hunter( which is valued higher than agility). Why I ask is because it just a pure increase to damage similar to MM. That being said it seems like it will behave the same way in that it's just that good of a mastery in a vacuum that it will continue to hold the same values
rain lance
this is starting to move out of TC discussion and into more feelycraft
brazen jay
And we can actually get more numbers after the changes to simc
glacial quiver
Ah well that in lie the answer then .. just wait and see
From all this discussion sin seems to have become a much more complicated spec than previously thought.. I'm going to try it some stuff tonight with poisoned knives I didn't get to last night because power issues
Should I test with MP and EP on the poisoned knives stuff ?
And at 5 cp ?
brazen jay
http://pastebin.com/w2jDmUdD
All the math for AP and surge interactions
stuck sapphire
anyone feel like he want to test old war with t18 2p sub?
opal spade
Sounds like you might
stuck sapphire
ill do it in 7.1 if noone did it till then
stuck sapphire
to see if the 30% damage increese also applys to the potion
plush relic
it will
damage increases work with old war
when i start raiding with sub ill let you know
ill use my t18M set for prepull
crisp basin
white trail
Outlaw with legendary bracers. Have any tried to see if it's DPS increase to BtE into blunderbuss even without SIW buff?
I assume it's a rare case and only ST since BtE doesn't work with BF and cannot proc Greed
but still
plush relic
check the apl
theres a line in there, its only worth using with shark and even then its a marginal increase
proud quartz
if anyone else sims sub with weaponmaster, are they getting goremaws bite as their second top damage as well?
feel like thats not correct
proud quartz
i know theres a bug ingame
plush relic
yes, goremaw has a bugged interaction with WM, stacks multiplicatively somehow, does a ton of dmg
rain lance
@proud quartz I think SimC may be implementing the Goremaw's bite WM bug
When to implement bugs in SimC isn't really any kind of policy but at this point Blizzard knows about and isn't fixing it so it went in
proud quartz
so its just giving it the same chance as in-game to proc wm, and if it does proc, parses crazy high?
stuck sapphire
thanks xaryen
proud quartz
because thats insanely rng
rain lance
I think so but @pseudo grove would be the one to ask
pseudo grove
yes
I still don't have found the exact formula
but I got an approx so
I'm currently updating subtlety T19h 😄
proud quartz
are all sub/wm sims assuming its on a ppm ?
rain lance
WM is just a flat 6% IIRC
proud quartz
thats making sims unreliable though. i just randomly simmed substantially higher
with the same gear
pseudo grove
what do u mean ?
proud quartz
6% on an ability that isnt used all that often can have a big disparity yea? it might not happen all night, it might happen multiple times in a fight
if simc randomly has it happen once or twice, youll do a lot more damage
so i guess the answer is to just run the sim again if it does happen
or maybe im misunderstanding how it handles it
acoustic lake
with 10k iterations you'd see goremaw's 40k times. my head isn't maths right now but that shouldnt' be causing massive variations
between different sets of 10k
proud quartz
i guess thats true. it just makes the ending number a little inflated
acoustic lake
I get his point though, 6buffs in simc caused a right skewed distribution and somewhat shifted the average higher than what a player would perceive as normal in game
same sort of issue with goremaw's
proud quartz
i guess my point is that realistically, GMB is never near my top damaging abilities
and i run wM
so when i say that it makes sims unreliable, i mean that if i didnt know better, id wonder what i was doing wrong, comparing the sim to the logs
stuck sapphire
if we want we could exclude extrema from the calculation
proud quartz
and its a bit different than rtb6, as it changes damage distribution by a lot
pseudo grove
check my logs
I have several WM GB proc
so I assume it's not that rare
in normal & hero
proud quartz
hmm
pseudo grove
not many mythic logs are public
proud quartz
maybe im just unlucky
pseudo grove
maybe ^^
acoustic lake
maths would say you've got roughly 22% chance of seeing it on your average 5 minute long fight, assuming its a 6% flat and not 6% per strike
pseudo grove
6% flat per target hit per abilities casted
acoustic lake
well goremaw's has mainhand/offhand damage, that doesn't affect it at all?
stuck sapphire
so how many abilities do we averagely cast during a 5 minute fight?
acoustic lake
that would be rather hard I test I guess
proud quartz
what would that be under on wcl? weaponmaster damage or gmb damage?
pseudo grove
if u see 500k+ per cast it's a wm proc
I almost killed mine on Cenarius yesterday
proc during thorns
-<
when I parsed logs
it happened often on the logs that are ranked high (obviously)
proud quartz
my average gmb on all these fights is around 180-190
happen twice for you in that fight?
rain lance
this is moving out of TC discussion
hallow pivot
For assa, should I pickup Elaborate Planning for 3 cp envenoms with maximum upkeep or stick with master poisoner? SHC gives me more dps with master poisoneer but youtube guides talk about the EP build
quick oasis
hey fiery, when do you expect to update ShC with all the AP math you and weak have been discussing?
rain lance
soon, just testing some things and I'll try to deploy it on the server
and hopefully not break anything because I'm new at deploying builds
quick oasis
is the tooltip for surge of toxins incorrect? i've heard some people say the % bonus is based on amount of CPs spent. have you guys tested this?
rain lance
yes it is, 1% per cp per stack for AP, 2% per cp for not-AP
brazen jay
For the strength of ago. And for the poison damage increase just 2% per cp for ago aswell
rain lance
oh good @brazen jay while you are here I have more questions about your pastebin
brazen jay
Sure
rain lance
can you explain exactly what the multipliers for 74-76 are
lines 74-76 that is
actually just 76
brazen jay
Line 71 envenom hit is exatcly 44.570...% stronger than line 70 envenom with 0 stacks of agony
Basically just to see that the tooltip isnt lying
rain lance
you've got that nice clean 25% on line 76
but I don't see how that is reflected in the damage
brazen jay
A line 71 envenom is with normal 5 stack ago
And line 72 is with surge empowered ago
And it is exactly 25% stronger
With all different abilities and different mastery levels
rain lance
no it isn't, it is 7.7% stronger, that is what lines 75 has
brazen jay
My bad. Ment the ago% gets empowered by the 25%
And yes
Obviously when you already have a multiplier you multiply it doesnt get the whole 25%
rain lance
ok so the formula without surge is: 4 * (mast/2 + poison_knives + master_alch) * master_poisoner * stacks
where does surge come into that
brazen jay
Just * 1.25 after that
Assuming it is a 5 cp finisher on 5 stacks
Or you can also break that down
rain lance
then how come the damage from envenom is only 7.7% higher?
rain lance
or the garotte tick at 89
brazen jay
So just added to the mastery + traits multiplier
rain lance
so 4 * (mast/2 + poison_knives + master_alch + surge_cps) * master_poisoner * stacks
brazen jay
Sorry Im bad at explaining this. But the 25% modifier is from the change of ago poisons %.
44% ago gets multiplied by 1.25 and becomes 55%.
I usually do these in my head so slow to put them into a formula
rain lance
so it is: surge multiplier * [4 * (mast/2 + poison_knives + master_alch) * master_poisoner * stacks]
brazen jay
I always calculated these in this order:
(Mastery / 2 + your traits modifiers ) * 4 * 1.2 from MP * ago poison stacks * surge modifier
Yes
That should give you the 55% agonizing with the line 51 mastery level
brazen jay
Phew
brazen jay
ye
Thats the same with any of the talents on the row
And again, Ap also gets this. So ap gains purely extra value out of surge for some reason
fringe kettle
how does that work for exsang
brazen jay
What does
fringe kettle
disregard, i put meaning in that that wasn't there
er, no ... 2% per CP
up to 5
you said something about that being true for any talents in that row, i don't see how that makes sense
brazen jay
The poison damage increase is for all talents. As the tooltip says
fringe kettle
oh you're just saying ap gains 2 bonuses?
brazen jay
Yes, AP gains additional power from the trait
fringe kettle
is that like EP in that after 5s that damage gets cut off, or you have 5s to get a more powerful rup in
5s of "additional damage" doesn't make sense in the same way it would for any other poison
brazen jay
Your agonizing poisons % gets stronger during the 5 second window of surge. But again I think this is not the channel to ask these questions. Rather poke thru discord or ask in either general channel
brazen jay
To my knowledge, Surge of Toxins should be figured out properly now. And to be updated in simulation models
quick flicker
spring juniper
As it has already been stated, Surge is 5% bonus per combo point.
Capping at 5 CP for 25%
pseudo grove
hmm
Adjust surge of toxins so that the benefit is 2% per combo point spent
instead of fixed 10%, and implement halved effectiveness on agonizing
poison.
from navv commit
I didn't really followed the Assn thing so
ivory moon
Question, maybe someone here can help me with a clear answer. Aside from "sim it". I'm sitting at 7k mastery, 7k crit, 4k versa, and 3k Haste. I can exchange around 1.5k mastery für an equal amount of crit. Is it more wise to stay bleed assassination? Or is that a nice point to go and try poison build?
rain lance
The correct answer is sim it, any other answer has a reasonable probability of being wrong
hybrid leaf
imo, can only be answered with "sim it" 😦
rain lance
now if you are ok with reasonable probability of being wrong, stay bleed build but this is purely a guess
hybrid leaf
tbh, quite easy, since simc import sums up your stats ...just manipulae them
pseudo grove
make a copy
one is bleed
second is poison
then make a copy of this setup
and change the gear_rating at the end
(uncomment them to override the gear)
and voilà
there is no "clear" breakpoint
ivory moon
is the SimYOC from Stjern's google doc still the right link to follow?
rain lance
Yes
ivory moon
Okay, thanks anyway
I just really hate simming, I have a hard time interpreting sims correctly.
hybrid leaf
!trinkets
azure sirenBOT
Trinket Sims: Sin- http://i.imgur.com/pt4Vb8R.png,Sub- http://i.imgur.com/skA6G8g.png, Otl- http://i.imgur.com/5tRJQ7K.png These trinket simulations, are under the assumption, that all trinkets have the same ilvl (860 ilvl).
amber drift
ty
flat rain
so with these AP changes coming into effect I'm not sure how it will effect the spec. At first I thought it would be an increase in DPS but after looking at the math I'm not sure anymore. If I understand it correctly, before it was a flat 10% and now it's 2% per combo point. So with 6CP you would get 12% which is an increase. But if you are doing 4CP envenoms to keep EP up than it would only be 8%?
But I was also thinking that if you took MP over EP you wouldn't have to worry about EP uptime and could use higher combo point finishers
i see the commits , but it looks like the nightly hasn't been published with those hotfixes so I can't test yet
spring juniper
It's a cap at 5CP effect
flat rain
so it can't get higher than 10%
spring juniper
I'm personally doing 5+ Envenoms with MP build to keep Surge going
According to tests, no
flat rain
but the other multiplier changes ? it looks like that could increase the damage
i guess i just need to wait until the simc build is updated
spring juniper
What other multiplier changes?
Ahout the AP scaling in general and scalings for MP?
formal canyon
do we know when simc will be updated for that? im consistently higher dps with mp on dummy tests but not on simc
spring juniper
According to the testing done, there's a lot of multiplicative scalings and a few double dips on MP and Ago scalings in general.
Poison Bomb and Kingsbane both double dip on MP scalings, their dmg being increased by 30% from the talent, and a further extra by the talents increase to AP
pseudo grove
Overall, Assassination sim has been lowered
fringe kettle
are tooltip variations on the truth this large par for the course?
spring juniper
Huh?
fringe kettle
specifically in regards to surge
it's practically outright lying about what's happening, i'm wondering where else this happens and if it's a fluke or a regular occurance
flat rain
it happens sometimes
torn flume
@pseudo grove what do you mean by sin sims being lowered
Dps wise a lower number
Or its being updated
azure sirenBOT
Skasch Sims: https://simc.skasch.com/
brazen jay
But why is surge value for poison damage increase only half of non ago?
They are the same
torn flume
I know i saw yours on the faq
But not his
How much was sin decreased by, idk where to look on mobile so don't have access to simc
pseudo grove
Not that much
chrome sun
pseudo grove
But a bit
chrome sun
That's the commit, if you were curious
pseudo grove
Ty @chrome sun I'm mobile hard to link it :D
chrome sun
commit message from navv:
poison knives apply additively as a multiplier, and master poisoner
and surge of toxins apply multiplicatively to the base agonizing
poison multiplier.
- Adjust surge of toxins so that the benefit is 2% per combo point spent
instead of fixed 10%, and implement halved effectiveness on agonizing
poison.
- Also implement an in game bug(?) feature(?) unicorn(?), where deeper
stratagem apparently does not apply to surge of toxins, and the
maximum benefit from finishers you can gain is set to 10%.```I haven't verified it, but navv is generally pretty thorough.
brazen jay
" instead of fixed 10%, and implement halved effectiveness on agonizing"
Comes from where? It works exactly as it does for both ap and nonap
torn flume
Ty
chrome sun
Redirect questions to the implementor 😃 I didn't implement.
I'll take a look and try to parse out the changes.
torn flume
These changes are in the latest release of simc? Including the new mp formula
Or a work in progress
Or a work in progress
Sry that was a weird error/duplicate
flat rain
it dosnt look like the nightly has the changes implemented yet
spring juniper
Nope, checked it, no change yet
quick oasis
i see the changes in the commits section, do i need to use a nightly build to sim with the changes?
oh ok
shrewd temple
this line in the sub apl confuses me actions.finish+=/nightblade,target_if=max:target.time_to_die,if=target.time_to_die>8&((refreshable&(!finality|buff.finality_nightblade.up))|remains<tick_time)
does refreshable mean in pandemic range? and if so, doesn't remains<tick_time mean more or less the same thing?
actually I suppose it's in pandemic range so long as its duration is short enough but it can still have multiple ticks left, sorry I'm somewhat out of it lol
although I take !finality as meaning if you have a finality NB up then it won't refresh, but then you also wouldn't have the finality buff up since you already used it on the current NB, so aren't those redundant then? or am I misinterpreting something?
shrewd temple
that would make sense as well lol, ty
covert flame
remains < tick_time is less than 2 seconds
or whatever each nightblade tick is. refreshable is pandemic time or 5ish seconds
manic bramble
It pretty much makes it wait til it's on it's last tick to refresh nightblade if it has finality up
the !finality|buff.finality_nightblade.up check is strange because they should always be opposites
manic bramble
ahh yeah I guess that does make sense
covert flame
once you've applied nb to a target, can weakauras or whatever tell if you tab away and then tab back that it was a finality buffed nb?
manic bramble
yeah they should be able to
covert flame
like is it possible to actually apply that logic in practice?
hmm. mine does not differentiate. i will have to look into that
covert flame
mine just shows stacking bars of nb running down with the name of the target it's on
but i can't tell which of those nb were buffed
manic bramble
I gues mine doesn't
pseudo grove
u're right
devout axle
Is it possible that SimC is overvaluing Weaponmaster? It's showing it as a -huge- dps increase over MoS for me.
It also doesn't seem to show up as its own damage event in SimC, like it does in logs
pseudo grove
it doesn't on logs aswell
and weaponmaster isn't only about dmg
and what makes it huge is the GB bug aswell
brazen jay
Weaponmaster does have its own spell ID in logs when it procs off NB
austere bramble
how long do you think its gonna be before blizz notices GB bugged
pseudo grove
anyway it's a server side script
so they can fix it at any time
obscure for us
but since they know their server code, it's easy for them to track it down
well, more easy than for us at least
devout axle
GB bug? Whazzat? Sorry if this isn't the place to ask
pearl valve
Question.. So as SIN i have 100% mastery and 30% crit. Then i go to SimC, scale and go to Pawn and it tells me to use other items, letting me with 69%mastery and 35% crit. Simc says its better. Shouold i listen?
manic bramble
probably a question for #off-topic or #228879234540503040 not really theorycrafting related
pearl valve
Ok! My bad
manic bramble
So a ton of people have been asking at what point it's better to run AP over Exsang so I'm trying to run some sims to figure it out. What do you guys think is the best way to handle it?
I was considering just hardcoding the values for crit mastery
and then just decrease crit and increase mastery
and see at what point it switched over to AP being higher damage?
or maybe it's better to just run it with a base amount of crit/mastery/vers and then increase mastery and find out the point at which it overtakes
small mountain
even at relatively low mastery, like 80%, AP is already simming better for me
flat rain
12k dps loss from the AP changes
gilded rover
did someone already tested how the legendary wrist influences agonizing poison?
pale thunder
What is the ap change?
acoustic compass
@gilded rover I have the same question. Just droped em.
gilded rover
i feel like doing less dps with ap instead of exsanguinate now
formal canyon
what has changed?
jolly grotto
Regardless they're still the best for sin
manic pulsar
@flat rain @pale thunder I think VeryRare is referring to a recent fix in simc of the AP formula
manic pulsar
That does not belong to this thread. Though in-depth, your question is still relative to your specific gear, with many parameters not available in your few lines. This question belongs to #228879234540503040
glossy grail
Does anybody got the enchant_id for flat mastery on neck?
glossy grail
Ty @manic bramble
manic bramble
np
sterile widget
what changed in the APLs to lose 10k+ dps?
tacit moss
torn flume
is anyone else getting a simcraft error when trying to sim
Unable to open output file 'C:/Users/Dylan/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EXa0.930/simc-703-04-win64\simc_report.txt'
plain magnet
How do I delay the usage of a use: to use it during shadowblade please ? Can't find the answer on the tutorial (Gnawed Thumb Ring). Simc uses it a t=0
pseudo grove
Put buff.shadow_blades.up in the on use line @plain magnet
plain magnet
2K7 gain yee
pseudo grove
I do have some more infos for the Goremaw's Bite bug
it looks like, both parts (MH and OH) can trigger weaponmaster
but only one is "registered" (the first that occurs), if both proc it, the second is ignored because there is some sort of GCD on it
that's why you can see number from 1M to 4M
because OH dmg is basically MH/2
so let's say a 1M dmg with ur OH non crit and 4M dmg with ur MH crit 😃
about the multiplier, I need fill more logs in my spreadsheet to have a better guess, atm with ~30 logs I got a number around 14 but it's a rough guess, I may have missed some things and I didn't parsed enough samples
I'm adding it into simc right now
if you have any thoughts/infos on this, do not hesitate to share so we can found the exact "bug"
I'll need to tweak a bit the APL around that tho
since it rises a lot GB priority
it's 0.5% dps increased but if you get lucky procs (it's like RTB 6) you can be unbeatable
pseudo grove
y
rich wharf
when I try to sim timewarped dungeons they appear at 675 ilv on the results :/ I can't seem to find the right bonus_id
the on use 4000 agi seems really strong
small mountain
Is it normal/expectable that there are swings of around 5 seconds in vendetta cast interval, in simcraft testing 30k iterations? I am testing vendetta relics+ boots
pseudo grove
it's a known bug for @manic pulsar
small mountain
oh, so making this kind of testing not reliable? its kinda of a big deal swapping 3 relics 😄
pseudo grove
IIRC, it's like +0 or +3
+1 & +2 are not well handled
but @manic pulsar will be able to answer you more accurately than me 😄
manic pulsar
The main problem is Vendetta sync-ing
I did not manage to find a general rule to decide if one should delay a given CD to sync it with the others
hybrid leaf
hi, does greed proc chance vary by amount of CPs used for RTrough? I was wondering if it worth spamming RTrough at 1-3 CP to get more greed procs... did one of you guys sim it?
pseudo grove
it's flat
it might be worth @hybrid leaf yes
when you have a lot of energy
I didn't tested
feel free to 😃
hybrid leaf
ok, i will try to work on an apl when i get back from work 😃
thx
i had the idea last nite, while i was in m+ BRH and thought "hmm...greed proc in large grps..."
pearl locust
Who's in charge of the Outlaw APL?
hybrid leaf
every1 is allowed to work on an APL 😉
pseudo grove
both Skasch and Me updated it at some point
but tbh, I'm more concerned about other project than mincmaxing the APL atm
sorry 😒
but if you get the tweak, I can test them if it's rather quick
and even on a large scale thanks to our one of our project ^^(ie on a lot of situations)
@here I updated my spreadsheet this morning btw 😄
worldly crest
I am concerned why is Cannobal Barrage considered better than KS for aoe sittuations? This topic,i do belive,was not disscused much,cause people are either concentrated on their st damage,or moved colmpletly from outlaw
pseudo grove
I assume most ppl moved over Assn or Sub
worldly crest
Thats a pity,in-game feelingcraft it is,than
manic pulsar
In general, Alacrity is still better than the two alternative for AoE damage
high dagger
http://www.wowhead.com/item=28034/hourglass-of-the-unraveller is bugged in simc
simc reports it only granting 12 AP (Proc)
It's a 4K ap proc
do I need to override the timewalking trinkets?
added ilevel=820 to the trinket solved it
crisp basin
sounds like it could be the issue with the SimC addon then
or whatever you used for importing
rain lance
I know Tamen mentioned the timewalking context from the API is still returning 660 ilvl stuff not 820, not entirely sure how simc import works but that could be part of the issue
unborn zephyr
I dont know if its been brought up or even sim´d but I just wanted to bring this up
claims to give us (alchemists) 2500 agi for a whole min, on a 1min cd
is it better than potion of the old war?
just want to be sure
the 2500 agility wasn´t confirmed by myself its something I read. It said it gave a primary stat increase (str,agi,int,dex,stam)
small mountain
how can I change the simc output file txt location? its defaulting to my desktop and saying it cant
small mountain
not the addon (I realise this is kinda offtopic), the program itself is giving me Simulation setup error:
Unable to open output file 'C:/Users/Ragnar/Desktop/simc-703-04-win64-16c9839/simc-703-04-win64\simc_report.txt'
and even extracting to other folders it wants to go there
rain lance
oh I don't know windows, you might try the simc irc channel
small mountain
ok fixed by adding output=log.txt to the import, weird error
rain lance
ah ok
small mountain
sorry for offtopic
finite rune
Doing just quick sims with an override for agility (I just did an average over time), it seems that old war is still going to come out ahead by a bit. But these pots will definatley be a boost for less than making old wars, but honestly, with 7.1 making old war pots will be fairly cheaper to make now too, about double these but no where near as bad as now.
white solstice
I havent found any solid information about how Blurred time actually works. Is it as bad as it looks?
icy mango
@white solstice tl;dr yes
ebon maple
I need a hand with some SimC stuff, tried to generate a plot for my Outlaw rogue and the graph generated for secondaries is.... weird.
ebon maple
shouldn't it be a little more linear?
maybe I am just used to seeing magesims
or maybe I am reading it wrong... cause according to that if I gain master I lose DPS at certain points
same thing goes for the other stats
hexed stone
You could try running more iterations, but this is for outlaw rogue yes?
Outlaw rouge has a lot of variance in it
ebon maple
yeah, I get that they are supposed to be dynamic
plush relic
thats usually what stat plots look like actually
you just dont see it because gear jumps to the end point
so it looks linear to you
but it isnt
ebon maple
than I have managed to confuse myself, but I think I understand what you are saying
plush relic
how you read it is
draw a vertical line through a certain point on the graph
where they end up on it, thats the best scaling stat weights in order at that point
to simplify it you could look at graphs of 1-2 stat wieghts rather than all of them
ebon maple
ok so, I should look at X = Zero than and see which stats take me up the most?
plush relic
it makes sense they jump around because as ssoon as you get more of one the others become more valuable
etc
x = 0 is your current gear
ebon maple
right
ebon maple
I'll try that
still learning this more indepth simcraft stuff, mind if I ask what that does?
sterile widget
should I be trusting 703-03 or 703-04 right now
tiny jolt
I'm having doubts with simulationcraft's custom stat weights. Especially for Sin.
It prioritises Mastery so heavily and crit so little it doesn't make a lot of sense
At least in my own tests I've found that picking and choosing my own gear seems to outperform the suggested stats. I've noticed most of the highest DPS rogues also run extremely high crit and much lower mastery than suggested
Here's a couple links as an example
He doesn't even run AP
oblique lake
Anyone there?
tiny jolt
Doesn't look like it
idle hull
@tiny jolt there are two builds for assassination with 2 different stat priorities
bleed and poison
poison heavily favors mastery
and for bleeds mastery is like 3rd
the guy you linked is running exsanguinate which means hes going for bleed build where mastery isnt as important
sterile widget
simcraft import isn't getting my secondary stats quite right, should I replace those values with the ingame ones for a more accurate result?
idle hull
u can use the simulationcraft ingame addon
and when u type /simc it gives u something u can paste into simc
for accurate profile
tiny jolt
@idle hull I'm aware of the 2 builds for assassination however there's been a lot of chatter of AP being better. I'm sceptical as sims can produce some pretty drastic differences compared to hitting that target dummy yourself and analysing it yourself
I think there's a lot of false information flying around and I'm not confident that simulationcraft is giving accurate stat weights as a suggestion
That's the point I was making
Simulationcraft will obviously produce better results when using its own stat weights as it tries to fill the gaps based on own algorithms.
If you look at what I linked above. That rogue has 1% versatility using exsanguinate and he is one of the top 10 rogues
Typically people would suggest Crit > Vers
And even if we entertain the idea that he typically runs AP instead of Exsang, he runs far less than recommended by simulationcraft
Nibren is Rank #2. Here's rank warcraft logs #3 rogue running AP and even he stacks far more crit than you'd ever see suggested
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/senjin/Pinch/simple
pseudo grove
pls, stop misconception
he's crit/mastery
and that is the optimal Asn setup
it's old, new are still running but it didn't changed dramatically
you might be using simulationcraft wrongly
also, leg and trinket might changes a lot this kind of thing
you cannot feelycraft stats, sorry.
tiny jolt
He's Crit > Mastery when going AP. Simulationcraft suggests Mastery > Crit
...
You also just confirmed exactly what I was 'feelycrafting'
small island
They got crit>mastery as it allows them to change to exanguinate anytime depending on the fight/mythic+
That's pinch's reasoning
tiny jolt
I see. That's good to know
small island
But you are right, simcraft isnt accurate for poison build atm, im still trying to let the simc guys know whats wrong
tiny jolt
I was following blindly and found my damage was getting no better. It wasn't until I started properly analysing my own gear I saw that there was something up
I hadn't seen that plot Aethys gave until now which is interesting. I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it
lethal lantern
!relics
azure sirenBOT
You can use this guide to answer most relic questions: https://goo.gl/gclS22
molten hawk
!trinkets
azure sirenBOT
Trinket Sims: Sin- http://i.imgur.com/pt4Vb8R.png,Sub- http://i.imgur.com/skA6G8g.png, Otl- http://i.imgur.com/5tRJQ7K.png These trinket simulations, are under the assumption, that all trinkets have the same ilvl (860 ilvl).
pseudo grove
That's normal @tiny jolt it's not very public atm, I'm building more user friendly tools
How do you do to know what stats to change on SimC ? Culprit might be there
everything need to be taken in account
silent zinc
So basically if you want to be able to swap to Exsang without gimping yourself too hard you want a balance of Crit and Mastery instead of just Mastery >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crit as suggested by my sim'd stat weights for a pure AP build, correct?
pseudo grove
may you show the source for "as suggested by me sim'd stat weights for a pure AP build" ?
@silent zinc
silent zinc
Well, I'm not sure how much this may discredit my statement, but they were statweights from shadowcraft.
You still want them?
I've only used Shadowcraft/AMR, been on a very long hiatus and didn't use SimC before, but learning it this week when I have some time.
silent zinc
tbh shadowcraft has to be wonky right now anyways
it was showing me mastery was slightly more valueable than agi and that hemo and mp were a dps improvement over ep
dapper heath
@silent zinc with the sim or stat weights?
silent zinc
with the whole sim
I posted about it in #226375547381350400
I'm just getting very odd resutls
@pseudo grove I looked at the plotting thing linked earlier, so what is being suggested for a EP/AP or MP/AP build?
Like according to SimC?
pseudo grove
talents=2110111 @silent zinc
silent zinc
ye I got that and I know that the weights change based upon your gear, but is that plotting showing crit > mastery in general?
or just at certain gear levels?
pseudo grove
it varies a bit
but you got the heat point
it's valid until nighthold
maybe ToV, not sure what kind of gear it is
silent zinc
oh okay I see
well at least I think it's a bit awk to read (first time seeing one of these)
is the heat point (green dot) 40% crit 45% mast, 15% versa?
sorry to be noobish, just trying to learn ^^
either way I know I definitely need mroe crit and honestly I haven't seen anyone with as much mastery as me yet and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing :S
37% Crit, 150% Mastery (10.4k), 4% Haste, 4% Versa
pseudo grove
it's the best point, but do not think it's the best one
I mean, it is in this example but it's not always true
you just have to think about the trend
and yes this kind of plot is kinda new
props to @manic pulsar for the idea and the script
silent zinc
if you don't mind me asking, have you found any new information on the whole MP > EP after a certain mastery threshold?
I don't trust AMR/Shadowcraft with that at all, and as I said I'm going to be learning SimC this week.
pseudo grove
I'm not that much involved into Assassination, sorry 😒
silent zinc
Ah okay.
You been playing Outlaw/Sub mainly?
Or I guess researching is I better word
pseudo grove
I played Outlaw until nerf (and was planning to play Subtlety for NH), now I only play Subtlety since the buff
silent zinc
Nice, nice.
pseudo grove
anyway, about your question ur best bet is to wait another guy 😃
silent zinc
Yeah, no problem.
The whole Sin thing is temporary anyways. I ended up re-rolling off rogue first week of legion because I couldn't stand Outlaw.
Just getting my 24 into sin and playing it until my gear is caught up.
Then preparing for Sub
pseudo grove
tbh, I don't see the point doing so since Sub & Asn are tied with same gear (well, the equality start with a minimum of Artifact ranks, Asn is slightly better before), it's better to all in Subtlety directly. Anyway that's just my opinion and Assassination is not garbage 😄
for AoE, it depends on the scenario
small island
who is our sin guy btw?
pseudo grove
related to simc, @manic pulsar
manic pulsar
?
pseudo grove
he knows way more thing than me on Assassination 😄
small island
skash is MP for simc properly updated yet? It seems MP does not affect kingsbane dot and poison bomb, affecting stat values atm
manic pulsar
I don't know
dreamy fjord
Hey guys, at the risk of having this question deleted, I may have a potential change to the assass opener
Wouldn't it be better to open with mut - rupture - garrote?
instead of garrote - rupture - mut?
with the mut opener we'll get an extra 2 secs on our pandemic rupture
meaning an extra tick
pseudo grove
why not trying it ? 😛
dreamy fjord
I have been trying it out, seems to be exactly the same, but i cant figure out how this wouldnt be better
mind you i was testing it on the dummies
modern stream
Why does Aethys' sim say assass is still the worst even though the wclogs currently says outlaw is the worst and people are starting to complain about the nerfs that went into it? http://www.aethys.eu/wow/simc/discord_rog_all_t19x_1t_default_combined.html
If this is the wrong chat ill delete it right away
rare summit
!trinkets
azure sirenBOT
Trinket Sims: Sin- http://i.imgur.com/pt4Vb8R.png,Sub- http://i.imgur.com/skA6G8g.png, Otl- http://i.imgur.com/5tRJQ7K.png These trinket simulations, are under the assumption, that all trinkets have the same ilvl (860 ilvl).
pseudo grove
probably because you don't know how to read it @modern stream
and you don't know the differences between T19P, T19H, T19M.
I recommend you to read the FAQ on my Thread on MMO-C
T19M includes legendary, and sub legendary is OP af
modern stream
I didn't mean to offend you, I use your stuff for everything, apologies
pseudo grove
it's the TL;DR
and Assassination T19M uses Insignia
instead of Bracers
with bracers it's ahead of outlaw
check the spreadsheet
instead of just the report
I'll change the legendary for Assassination in my next update
I use myself the spreadsheet for default profiles ^^
modern stream
Alright, thanks, I was just a little confused why on the spreadsheet assass was lowest consistently besides the 3t one but I assume ye thats the no legendary shit
Thanks, and sorry again
pseudo grove
😛
true mason
anyone know if http://www.wowhead.com/item=142159&bonus=1517:3452 will be effected by Sin effects?
coarse ginkgo
true mason
wonder if it would at least do venomous wounds proc?
little pelican
@manic pulsar the sim does 2 6CP ruptures shortly after each other between exsangs so it can pandemic the rupture for the next exsang, is this actually a DPS gain over just using 1 rupture into exsanging a non-pandemiced rupture?
I mean we lose like 800k of envenom dmg + deadly poison dmg from envenom uptime because of those 12 CPs that are used extra.
fickle vortex
Hello! I'm looking to sim my gear but i want to change one of the relics in the sim, Can someone help me how to put it in?
@little pelican In opener? I wonder if its just because it crits and the points wasted is just extra damage in the crit, not expected?
formal lichen
Do any of the theorycrafters know if the sub tier 18 2pc works still and how it can be included in sims potentially?
I noticed @acoustic lake using it in one of his Ursoc kills
formal lichen
I guess WCL haven't took notice of its benefit in logs then
acoustic lake
What do you mean
formal lichen
well they have writing at the bottom stating rankings with tricks that are likely to be hotixed in the future will be a different color
acoustic lake
Oh that
well yeah Iguess this would qualify if blizzard decides to make the buff drop off when you take the gear off.
Which is what happens with trinket procs
well, certain trinket procs
formal lichen
done any napkin math to ensure it's a net dps gain?
acoustic lake
Not really, it just amuses me. Because I have the cloak I imagine the 30% increased damage I get on a 30 stack shuriken storm makes it worth it for me at the least
formal lichen
ah alright
little pelican
@fickle vortex no, it does it every single time between exsangs.
acoustic lake
Just based on some quick math from a nythendra pull the 30% damage buff should be contributing about ~1.4mil damage. More damage than im likely to get from a single vanish usage.
Without the cloak it might not be worth it for sure, but yeah, I haven't bothered to sim it because im not sure its possible
fickle vortex
@little pelican that sounds odd, Tell me what results you come up with 😄
formal lichen
alright thanks anyway
fickle vortex
Can somebody help me Sim Another relic into my weapon than the one i have currently? how do i do
acoustic lake
You read the guide posted in #rules-and-guides instead of clogging up this channel
acoustic lake
Haven't you been trying to put the goremaw's bug in for awhile now 😛
pseudo grove
it's in
but it's not something from WoD 😛
and I did it because ... Blizzard don't want to fix it :/
formal lichen
yeah I understand, no worries - thanks
flat rain
what are these sin APL tweaks that were just committed?
pale thunder
What is the goremaws bug?
torn flume
Kiwi have you tried the cape for assass yet
Is it worth to fok at ashy point in the st rotation with it
Any
boreal plume
rocky owl
Is there a way to sim a set of items in simc? or does each piece need to be swapped out manually?
formal canyon
@pseudo grove is this true? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1894494-Legion-Subtlety-discussion?p=42853165&viewfull=1#post42853165
summer shale
!trinkets
azure sirenBOT
Trinket Sims: Sin- http://i.imgur.com/pt4Vb8R.png,Sub- http://i.imgur.com/skA6G8g.png, Otl- http://i.imgur.com/5tRJQ7K.png These trinket simulations, are under the assumption, that all trinkets have the same ilvl (860 ilvl).
formal canyon
@pseudo grove which part is right/wrong? im curious because i feel like sub is simming way higher for me than real world numbers compared to mut
pseudo grove
2 and 3
pseudo grove
yes it takes wrongly in account the player multiplier
I thought navv fixed it
but I'm doing it
anyway, imo it's a Blizz bug 😄
(despite being a pet, it should be okay to take in account player buffs)
pseudo grove
did u tested versa ?
crisp basin
yeah
that one works
also orc racial works
numbers here http://pastebin.com/LJjkAPX8
(and it doesnt work on it in simc)
plush relic
does 715 legendary ring still work in simc?
apparently some parses with it are really high in game
formal canyon
ok thanks @pseudo grove ! i should keep checking github commits to see when it's live?
pseudo grove
soonTM
acoustic lake
It should still work @plush relic, however I heard 715 rings were already hotfixed
pseudo grove
@formal canyon https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/8bfcc1c6ba3ec75c6eb38767f4247cda05fec967
formal canyon
@pseudo grove thanks!
edgy walrus
Can anyone tell if master assassin relics are bugged or not used properly in simc? because i see dps gain simming it vs gushing wound ones, even in exsang build, but in the 'rogue relics' sheet thats being linked all the day here it is rated as the worst one
scarlet harness
azure sirenBOT
You can use this guide to answer most relic questions: https://goo.gl/gclS22
high rapids
Anyone know if the latest simc is bugged or something?
it's acting as if my charcater has the legendary back equipped
I'm using the latest nightly build
edgy walrus
so the @fair owl spreadsheet that jeeves just linked is false and Master Assassin trait relics are working properly, right?
rain lance
I think it may be out of date, not sure when it was last updated
fair owl
On the 10th
rain lance
did you sim those with poison or bleed build?
because they behave differently with relics
rain lance
I'd bet that is based on bleed, master assassin does appear to be better with poison and if you have multiple of them
not entirely sure how to communicate that on the sheet, @edgy walrus your own sims are almost always better than a static ranking
edgy walrus
well thanks for answering, was just thinking there may be some bug or something i don't know on that thing that causes such difference
pseudo grove
@high rapids https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/57a958298abd3f7f2a97a3f2080f7d44dcb568d1 fixed
ahahah
I just added it
and there were none before
😄
silent zinc
So the artifact trait poisoned knives -- It says it buffs AP by 6%, but does that have anything to do with using FoK (since right before that it states using FoK DP deals 12% more instantly, etc)?
rain lance
no, it just gives a flay buff to AP
pseudo grove
well deimos, I didn't even pay attention that braces were missing
XD
and since it's valid for 1 statement
rain lance
this is why you should always use braces
flat rain
hey guys this isn't really a place for general gear questions, or asking because your question was unanswered in another channel. also @unique forge please use more than 1 word per line. the intent is to keep this channel as a valuable resource for players to look back upon and not clog it up with questions that can be anwsered by simming yourself
dim pendant
I believe one of the mods said to avoid using the last two nightly builds as a bug was introduced
unreal turret
Has anyone worked out if getting parried on a low CP envemon is a potential dps increase, as it's still applying surge?
blissful kayak
is memento of angerboda correctly implemented in simcraft? I mean to remember that it was bugged and showed less DPS than intended, sry if this is the wrong channel
strong surge
Memento uptime in simcraft is too low to my experience
it's alwais shows 7,5% each buff for me in sims, while I usually have 12%+
rain lance
IIRC memento has a "feature" where it will proc more often after someone in your group dies
so in a raid setting it may have higher uptime, especially on progression
but I don't remember the details
strong surge
oh, good to know
tame sluice
Was wondering why it always procced full when someone ninjapulled. Do we know if it requires people just die or stay dead? ^^
rain lance
Its an RPPM trinket with 1.5 RPPM so you'd expect it to proc on the pull, the effect is when someone dies it triggers an instant proc
plush relic
@rain lance you mentioned you had a syntax config for simc in sublime?
rain lance
its very simple because I'm not quite sure the best way to do syntax highlighting for APLs but that is what I have so far
pull requests are welcome
sharp heath
Are there other items with completely undocumented mechanics like that Memento death thing? I just looked through logs and was surprised to see that does appear to be true but is not even hinted at on the item itself
rain lance
Probably, although I have no idea what they are
chrome sun
Who discovered that mechanic, Fiery? That's pretty nuts.
rain lance
Pawkets
chrome sun
I think the Sub APL could use some improvement with respect to CP thresholding during shadow blades
i'll take a look, but as far as I know we have no conditions on whether or not shadow blades is up
dim mountain
<@&226424944148480000> hi ! I downloaded latest SimC build (710-01) and while simming my Subtletly spec, I noticed that Eviscerate does roughly 23M DPET. Pretty sure something is off right there :x
crisp basin
would be useful if you could post html result of the sim in case its not easy to reproduce
dim mountain
Sure thing : http://www.filedropper.com/bug_4 should work
crisp basin
sounds like its some issue with adding the spell ranking from 7.1
dim mountain
I didn't notice any similar bugs with Assa spec, havent tried Outlaw yet
crisp basin
probably similar issue as above
dim mountain
ok, all good then 😃
oblique lake
Whats is your advice for now? How different is the new build to the 2nd last itteration?
pseudo grove
😛
in fact
it might be a buff
depending on how they compute it
like, it is AP Coef * 1.5
or
AP Coef 1 + 0.5
will have to test on PTR
they might failed the implemention of that 😄
it's in my TODO list anyway
acoustic lake
- 1.5 would be the intention surely
pseudo grove
I assume so
but we'll see
since the GB WM bug, I'm careful with how they compute the coefficient ^^
pseudo grove
@dim mountain I fixed the issue (gonna commit it in the next hour), the next nightly should have the fix in 😃
dim mountain
@pseudo grove thanks a lot !
wild bluff
Does anyone know how to do the math to find the rate of change of a dagger's min/max weapon damage in respect to it's item level for a rogue with 23K agility?
outer rapids
So simc for MP is broke right? Ive always simmed about 20-30k lower when I choose AP+MP even with 110-120% mastery and 39-36% crit. I believe that there is some interaction with poison bomb that SimC isnt capturing. If you look at the % damage of poison bomb in SimC its about 5.8% and in logs its around 7.8% of damage done. When testing on target dummy for me my sim says 5.8% damage done and nearly all of the runs Ive done on the target dummy puts it at above 7.5% ST of course.
cyan kelp
Pls! Dont ask if its 'broken' it isnt broken at all. Maybe its value is too low or its only calculated wrong... These kind of questions are misleading
pseudo grove
@outer rapids I fixed it yesterday.
plush relic
Hey dudes, quick question about the impact of Sub Rogues first gold point
Mostly just curious if it changes the rotation at all?
Prior to that point, the top dps rotation is maintaining self buff, maintain DoT and dump into evisc while managing Shadow Dance
Just got my first gold on this char and wanted to know if it changes anything from that.
zinc oriole
No
The only rotational difference with Finality
Is that you let Finality:NB fall off. Pandemic only when you have the buff
latent imp
does anyone know which values I have to manually edit in simcraft to sim different relics?
within the "main_hand=" line
i get that gem_id=xxx/yyy/zzz are the relics
but i'm lost on the bonus id stuff
latent imp
so how do I get the bonus ids?
acoustic lake
wowhead
white trail
go to wowhead
acoustic lake
like you would for any piece of gear
or if you like to do things manually, you can check https://home.skasch.com/bonus_ids.txt
latent imp
hm it only shows me one id though
white trail
if it's only base relic without any bonuses then it could be just 1 id
you can change state of the item on wowhead as well
white trail
and it would give you different link
acoustic lake
yes, you can set it to 0
white trail
yes, set to 0
latent imp
great i'll try thanks
acoustic lake
thing is, when you use the simc addon in game
A lot of the bonus ids you get back are for building tooltips
things like putting titanforged in the tooltip or whatever, they use bonus ids for that
So a lot of the time you only really need one bonus id to get what you want in simc
latent imp
ah..
makes sense, thanks 😃
would be really cool to see which relics were used in the sim results gear tab though
or am I just blind
latent imp
yeah you are right it shows which traits were used
but no way to make sure i didn't fuck up the bonus id and used a 895 relic by mistake
but that's fine I guess
old jungle
Not sure if this question isn't simple enough: Does weaponmaster affect Insignia of Ravenholdt damage?
latent imp
this overrride would use BtE everytime it's up when the bracers are equipped, regardless of SiW "actions.finish=between_the_eyes,if=equipped.greenskins_waterlogged_wristcuffs" right?
or do I have to override the whole APL?
doesn't seem to work like this, what would I have to do to make simcraft use BtE whenever it's up even without SiW
acoustic lake
@old jungle the weaponmastered generator procs ravenholdt as well, yes
Insignia seems inconsistent with shadowstrike from logs im looking at though
Sometimes it doesn't proc
latent imp
could I just paste the whole "profile" section from the results into the overrides tab and delete "&buff.shark_infested_waters.up" ?
acoustic lake
Just import a default spec profile and change your gear and header parts to your simc addon outputs
then just change the apl there, makes more sense
latent imp
ok but it seems to work the way i described
just did it, my BtE count went from 7.6 to 28.4
and my dps went from 390800 to 411000
SeemsGood
maybe someone who actually knows simcraft should double check and edit the APL?
I either made a mistake or it seems to be a huge damage loss to not use BtE on cooldown if you have Greenskin's bracers
outer rapids
There is a way to check that you didnt accidently use an 895. Go to the gear section of your results and look at the +ilvls
latent imp
that's my point Kazkek, relics are not listed there
outer rapids
They are listed there as +ilvls and in the trait section you will see 3+1
So you know you have the correct ilvl of the relic and the correct trait
thats all relics are really: ilvl + trait
latent imp
oh right,
, relics: { +43 ilevels, +43 ilevels, +40 ilevels }
thanks
who is maintaining the outlaw APL?
latent imp
@pseudo grove got a sec?
pseudo grove
yes
I see ur thing
may you open the issue on Github so I can have a trace please ?
I can't fix it right now
latent imp
yes, I will
pseudo grove
or you can try to pull request it if you feel you can edit the module ^^
latent imp
not really no
pseudo grove
but the issue is enough
latent imp
i can just open an ticket
pseudo grove
yes it's perfect, thanks
latent imp
thanks
old jungle
Ok so the insignia damage itself can't proc weaponmaster, only when the ability procs it does Insignia get 2.
But it does benefit individually from stats like versatility?
and if it does, does Mastery of Subtlety affect the insignia damage individually as well?
latent imp
created the issue on github (#3016)
pseudo grove
ty @latent imp
yes @old jungle
it's something kiwifruit just told me
we're investigating it
I mean, he's
and I'm listening since I'm a bit busy atm
SoD aswell
old jungle
That's super interesting
acoustic lake
True I should check master of sub as well
This would be a lot easier if blizzard would just give me the ring mhm
old jungle
I just did some basic training dummy hits without SoD and with the MoS. It definitely does affect it as well
acoustic lake
Do you have any trinkets with versatility procs available
a pvp trinket on use vers or anything like that?
old jungle
Not at the moment. If I can get something, what would you want me to try
acoustic lake
I just need to see insignia damage before and after the on use
brazen jay
Insignia benefits from a lot of multipliers
My insignia is almost 70% with my assassination
acoustic lake
Yep
Just trying to investigate to see whats what really 😛
Logs make it difficult, the uptime on elaborate planning makes windows hard to find
And im not overly famaliar with assassination so im not sure of all the multipliers
brazen jay
Sin hidden passive, EP, AP, vers
acoustic lake
do you have any logs to demonstrate? Easier to make these scenarios for me to verify than for me to trawl thru logs looking for the right points in time 😛
curious if gnawed thumb ring would affect insignia as well, no doubt it would just for fun
brazen jay
Dont have any logs just for insignia testing. But just what I gathered when I hit a dummy for a moment
pseudo grove
btw, atm on simc only the sin hidden passive is taken in account
nor vers, nor EP, nor AP, nor MoS, nor SoD
I'm just waiting "a final list" and the podcast end to make it in 😃
strong surge
Turns out ring is pretty good
brazen jay
Ring gets insane double dip value for AP sin
acoustic lake
Pretty bugged maybe 😛
strong surge
btw, how do I add a line to use pistol shot when wrists buff is about to fall?
pseudo grove
rogues are so bugged 😒
strong surge
deleted shark requirement for wrists got +7k, tried to use 3rd talent in first tier with it +12k
wtf
error is set to 0.05%
acoustic lake
Do you have black powder traits in your artifact?
strong surge
nope
graceful bough
What's sins hidden passive btw ? 😅
high raft
nothing i guest
white trail
Assassins Resolve
pseudo grove
it's the thing that makes it 30% instead of 15%
dark yoke
Aethys have you done any experimentation with mutilate, haste, and rppm trinkets or traits?
pseudo grove
?
rapid sparrow
Ring is pretty good on sin, I have it and on ST, it is about 8% of my dmg
dark yoke
I was under the assumption that haste increased the uptime of rppm trinkets
torpid pine
how do the new potions compare to old war?
proper hinge
yo guys whats the story with master of subtlety and weaponmaster
weaponmaster sims higher but at what cost
pseudo grove
that is right @dark yoke
dark yoke
No matter how much haste I give myself in simc the uptime on memento stays the same
It's 7.5% per buff at 0% 20% and 50% haste
While the bag of tricks proc rate goes up the expected amount
dark yoke
I want to test this in game but I do not know how large o a sample I would need
Yes I gathered that
dense swift
@pseudo grove my spriests are talking about changes in trinkets
Heard anything?
[Bough of Corruption] now that it seems like they've made it work with dot ticks/flay/sear (and it already worked with ssphere) that drastically improves the windows when bough might be good
oh also, as bough does shadow damage it works with shadowform+voidform+twist of fate
I don't have a twisting winds myself to check, but the other shadow priest in our guild does and he says they increased the proc chance of it
- Maybe some other that affect us have been as well?
On PTR
oblique lake
Is there an override that would include using T18 2piece pre-pull?
little pelican
how does this make sense:
http://i.imgur.com/WS3O97X.png
+
http://i.imgur.com/es1aHb1.png
manic pulsar
I guess you have the boots + 2 vendetta relics?
manic pulsar
Bleed build?
little pelican
ago
little pelican
np, it just makes sense that i would be higher to me, since RPS=25, which means it should cut some 20s off the CD at least
right?
little pelican
that would be 50% uptime, right
manic pulsar
Exactly
little pelican
ye idk, im gonna double check my log
manic pulsar
I'll look into it, it's probably my fault for not correctly writing the APL for every possible vendetta CD possibility
little pelican
ye, I have 49 and 48% uptime on these kills
thank you
idk if it holds for kingsbane
its possible
small mountain
I reported this yesterday and my posts just got deleted...
if you input 3 vendetta relics the vendetta cast interval doesnt go down properly
queen marsh
hey, has mastery value been fixed with agonizing posion?
dim pendant
@pseudo grove I saw last night you putting up a dispersion graph for outlaw stats roughly 12 hours ago. Were the percentages in that graph a percentage of total stat ratings?
At least I think it was you because I can't see the post anymore
onyx flare
Does Spiked counterweight simulate correctly? i have an 840 one, and traded it for a Agi/crit Stat stick and my dps went up by 5k
agi/crit is 835 ilvl
this is also for Subtley
pseudo grove
@queen marsh yes
@dim pendant it's on my repo, not yet in simc http://simc.aethys.eu/ and to generate it, it's a bit tricky atm
@onyx flare it should, it might be related to ur stats need. I don't think it's simming wrongly
dim pendant
Trying to figure out how to interpret the percentages on the plot so we can reverse engineer to see what stat sweet spot we should aim for lol