tc-updates

[chrome sun]

I just simmed outlaw T19p at 296k dps, up from the 275k dps from earlier commits today

@outer rapids - thank you for helping debug

this should be resolved.

[outer rapids]

Nice. Glad it was caught and fixed pretty quickly.

[strong iris]

is there a nightly around with todays changes implemented?

[kindred fiber]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2kuaW1nZmxpcC5jb20vMWF6ZWt5LmpwZyJ9.lZPCKuENzaEiVTJYhDmHXjnXv6o <--- where do you that dog?

[torpid wraith]

class hall followers quest

[tulip otter]

so best ally race for sub is night elf if I am reading correctly?

[manic pulsar]

@tulip otter That's not the place to ask that 😃 #228879234540503040 #228878985210101760

[faint torrent]

Yo are the current sims wrong? Or did we get shafted?

[limber halo]

they're definitely right and this is definitely the place to look for this answer. #228879234540503040 (ps i'm lying about both of those things)

[outer rapids]

The bug was just fixed give them some time to update it. Takes awhile to sim that many classes/specs

[twilit gyro]

what was the bug?

[chrome sun]

simcraft "automatically" intuits the properties of spells and things through clientside spell data

blizzard's hotfix LOOKED like it patched the effect of several of the outlaw relics to zero to the client

so simcraft was reading the cache file and seeing "oh, hey, the game thinks these relics have a zero multiplier"

when in practice the actual game is working as intended

but simcraft wasn't seeing that

so we temporarily issued a manual revert to the spell property lookup

that's what the commit I linked earlier does: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/a9dc4795fe20801c6da86dd178dd8da1eb668864 - see the values changing back to non-zero

[upper wave]

Hey guys, I'm trying to make my own personalized character sheet with my own stat weights - would anybody be able to tell me how much energy regen 1 stat of haste makes?

also, brb

[chrome sun]

energy regen is a function of haste, main gauche, combat potency, etc

[upper wave]

Yeah, what I need is the value that 1 haste would have on how quickly energy regenerates

basically what I'm trying to do is make my own calculator so that I can run my own gear checks

but figure that I need to know how that functions so I can calculate in relic effects (talking subtelty here)

[sharp heath]

If your plan is to invent your own Shadowcraft, it's going to require a lot of math to derive that answer

[upper wave]

no not trying to do that lol

not that indepth anyways

[sharp heath]

Essentially you're looking for taking Shadowcraft (once the bugs are hammered out) and running it twice with varying amounts of haste and seeing the difference in energy generated

would need to dump that data yourself since it's not in the default output

Or do the same thing with SimC and a whole lot of iterations

[rain lance]

That is also exactly what ShC does for stat weights, add 1 haste and divide the dps increase by the dps increase on 1 AP

you can however work out energy regen as a function of haste and mastery pretty easily

[upper wave]

How do I go about doing that?

[rain lance]

energy regen is 3 components, direct haste regen, cp regen and mg_cp regen

[upper wave]

Sorry, I'm new to this, and figure doing the math my self is the best way for me to understand the mechanics

[rain lance]

direct haste regen is easy, 12 * (1 + haste %) per second

for cp regen you find the OH swing speed 2.6/(product of all all attack speed sources) and multiply by the effective energy per swing (2.6/1.4 * 3)

[pseudo grove]

don't forget some effect like energetic stabbing or the leggy boots

it makes the things complex 😄

[rain lance]

for mg_cp regen, you take the swing speed you computed before and then compute the mg_cp regen per swing as mastery_% * 3 and multiply that by the swing speed

this will give you all the direct energy sources

if you want to then add in things like energy refunds or consider mastery regen on abilities then you'll basically need to reinvent ShC

[upper wave]

yeah no thanks haha

ALl I really wanted to do was to make a calculator with my own personal stat weights, so I could uh.. put in more / less stats and see how it effected said weights

then became curious about how energy regeneration worked

[rain lance]

that is what ShC does (or will do once I get it fully fixed up)

deriving stat weight changes from gear changes is a really complex problem

for computing energy regen you may find this useful: https://github.com/Fierydemise/ShadowCraft-Engine/blob/legion/shadowcraft/calcs/rogue/Aldriana/__init__.py#L1545

[upper wave]

awesome,. thanks

again, just a project to understand how it all works

more so I can look at gear and have a good understanding of whether it's useful or not, rather than having to go in and sim everything

thanks for the help 😄

[rain lance]

again that is basically what ShC does, if you want to help out with that let me know

[queen swift]

When exactly does the agonizing poison build surpass the exsang build?

[rain lance]

I'm not sure if there is a generalizable threshold, you might be able to do some kind of reforge plot for exsang and poison and plot them on the same chart to check

[queen swift]

Hmm, im just trying to figure at what point I should change my stat prio

because if I remember mastery overtakes crit once AP starts doing more dps

[grave ember]

So Looking at warcraft logs sthere is a sub rogue that toped every outlaw ass rogue on nythendra heroic..

so is it confirmed that sub is > then outlaw?

or is this not the place to ask?

[pseudo grove]

it's not the place

but TL;DR, it's not surprising 😃

[torn flume]

sub feels awkward with 6 combo points

with 5 i feel like ss x2 finisher ssx2 was smooth

[plush relic]

is the simc on download page update for the bugfix?

or do you need to get a nightly build

[acoustic lake]

you should always be using a nightly build if you want to have the most up to date sims

the one on the download page is not an updated build

[potent narwhal]

does gouge fit in rotation?

feeling like with dirty tricks, the free combo point will be useful

[open lantern]

have to be in front of target tho

[potent narwhal]

yah I guess I need to get gooder at that too

hrm

[open lantern]

all pretty useless talents, prey on the weak doesnt even include between the eyes

gouge is nice for interrupt on stunnable mobs

[rain lance]

hey folks this discussion is probably better suited for a different channel

[chrome sun]

gouge does indeed fit into the rotation; feel free to move it to general 😃

[open lantern]

when simming vigor vs dp as sub, it actually changes my stat rankings, vers is top with vigor and haste(for some reason) with dp

starting to think vigor is the way to go, maybe not tho 5 cps just feels bad now*

can get 4 shadow strikes on each shadowdance with vigor more reliably

[torn flume]

for sub is the general consensus 2x ss finish 2x ss

because if the first 2 put you at 4 combo points you can't wait for shadow techniques

so do you just cast a 4 cp finisher

[acoustic lake]

Perhaps make sure you have a combo point before you use dance, then you won't run into that issue

[pseudo grove]

that's normal @open lantern

it depends ur haste rating, ur energetic stabbing rank, ur leggy bot, etc....

same issue than at lvl 100

[brisk saddle]

i always read leggy boot? what the hell is that? legs and bots or?

[pseudo grove]

yes

it's legendary boot

I just like saying that

[brisk saddle]

k 😄

[open lantern]

oh lawl, i always call them legos D:

[ember wigeon]

[3:27 AM] dylan: sub feels awkward with 6 combo points
[3:27 AM] dylan: with 5 i feel like ss x2 finisher ssx2 was smooth
@torn flume exactly, I'm missing so many potential shadowstrike because of energy starvation with DS when I SSx3

like: no ShT proc, SSx3 no energy left to finish.. pooling .. finisher, can't 4th ss

I hate this

[acoustic lake]

I mean

I already said how you can avoid this very easily

just adjust your playstyle

[ember wigeon]

like you start shD with 1 cp?

[acoustic lake]

yes

then you'll never run into the issue of not being able to finish on the 3rd gcd

[ember wigeon]

yeah, it was my first night with DS + premed

I still have a lot to learn 😃

thanks for the tips

[naive shale]

that makes a ton of sense

just trying sub myself and i felt the same way with energy and cp. Will dance with 1cp now

[small island]

has anyone tried using another APL for assassination poison build, keep Elaborate Planning up with envenom, so spam envenom as much as possible to proc Bag of Tricks?

[manic pulsar]

Ilvl - relic equivalence sheet updated

[dense pumice]

what are sin stat priorties now?

[manic pulsar]

Spamming Envenom is pretty useless

As it is a RPPM mechanic

[zealous compass]

@manic pulsar I must be utterly terrible at searching, but in what thread is it pinned?

[zinc river]

#rules-and-guides

[zealous compass]

@zinc river can't see the one with relic equivalence sheet?

[manic pulsar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vw2J-dIBAhXiJXW2Da4mLe0r1e9cVvEBXdpC7NRNu7A/edit?usp=drive_web

[zealous compass]

Thank you @manic pulsar. Sorry if I was terrible at searching!

[elfin remnant]

If i dont have AR, should i reroll shark? or no?

[fathom bramble]

yes

[plush relic]

are the relic values already updated with todays changes? not sure who maintains the sheet would be nice to have some "Last update:" thingy in there somewhere

[verbal valley]

Outlaw relics went from 60 to 40

so it looks updated

[indigo elm]

Ty Skasch

[plush relic]

ah looks updated idd must have happened in the last few hours 'cause earlier today it still showed 60 (or i opened some cached version... anyways)... thanks

[manic pulsar]

I did it two hours ago

[plush relic]

ah ic, thanks 😃

[white trail]

@manic pulsar how catlike reflexes has a ilvl tied?

[untold raptor]

is the simcraft on http://www.simulationcraft.org/download.html up to date with latest hotfixes?

[sacred verge]

Yes, i believe so.

It was different two days ago

That's a complete single target fight vs. a dummy

[manic pulsar]

@white trail RNG

it is theoretically 0, but the DPS error brings it slightly above 0

[white trail]

okay

[fathom bramble]

you have a chance to dodge the boss melee when you're last alive, to kill it, hence dps increase 😉

[azure saddle]

my outlaw is siming exactly the same on the new simc download, are we sure it's updated?

[untold laurel]

does nightblade snapshot from percentual damage increases?

[ember wigeon]

depends

[acoustic lake]

9 times out of 10 its dynamic

[ember wigeon]

nightstalker snapshots

mos is dynamic

[untold laurel]

yeah so you want to use it in stealth with mos or na?

[acoustic lake]

doesn't matter

[untold laurel]

alright

[fathom bramble]

yes nightstalker snapshots

[untold laurel]

are there any other important things regarding nightstalker that I'm missing? refreshing it with pandemic is fine when you didn't snapshot right?

[ember wigeon]

don't play nightstalker

[torn flume]

Do you treat finality nightblade the same as an exsanguinated rupture

As in not refreshing it early

[fathom bramble]

yes

[ember wigeon]

you need a weakaura to track that ?

there's no default indication in game right?

[tawny crown]

and do you want to do something like a 2cp nightblade so you get finality and then a 6cp one?

[pseudo grove]

I made an handler for the finality in my addon, it's a bit boring to do but it can be exported as WA

[strong surge]

Finality gets modifier based on cp spent

so no

[torn flume]

Curious as to why energetic stabbing relic when from 48 to 30

[tawny crown]

oh really?

didnt know that

[ember wigeon]

finality is shared between NB and evi or are they separated?

[torn flume]

Seperate

[ember wigeon]

I should start looking into that

[strong surge]

actually

[untold laurel]

why dont we open with evisc then to get finality and then nightblade with finality up

[strong surge]

maybe you want to exactly 6 cp nightblade before the finality one

id

idk

[fathom bramble]

>=5 no exceptions

[strong surge]

ok

[ember wigeon]

it average 5.3 on my sim

so more likely 5 than 6 on top of that

[torn flume]

Any guesses as to why the trait for energetic stabbing dropped so much in value

[undone oxide]

: do you start using BtE on cd with Greenskin's W.W? or not worth it

[ember wigeon]

the other 2 gained some value, may explain

[torn flume]

The other 2 dropped as well

[ember wigeon]

it's all relative

I believe

[strong surge]

Wdps got more value

probably

[gritty inlet]

how many ilvl will i "decrease" as assa for rupture buff? oder do i just take the highest ilvl i can get?

or do i'^^

[torn flume]

What

[strong surge]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vw2J-dIBAhXiJXW2Da4mLe0r1e9cVvEBXdpC7NRNu7A/edit?usp=drive_web

[torn flume]

Scroll up a bit

Nvm

[strong surge]

yeah

[torn flume]

Scroll up 1

[strong surge]

its in #rules-and-guides probably

[torn flume]

I need to try going into. Dance with 1 cp

So you arrest awkwardly left at 4 with no poetic

Poetic

Proc

Fuck my phone

[ember wigeon]

yeah

it's shouldn't be too bad

pool to max, backstab, mos, should be full energy again

[torn flume]

If you pool to long you will get a proc

And it will be wasted

[ember wigeon]

well if you proc you have 6CP

if not 5

[torn flume]

Hopefully it procs before the backstab

But then you'll energy Casio

Cap

[ember wigeon]

thanks god I went top way, so I don't have to deal with 2 CP shT

[untold laurel]

Just use symbols if u get close to capping and cant help it

[torn flume]

Can't use symbols outside of stealth

[icy mango]

For sub, would it be worth to use a 5cp nightblade, then refresh it with a 5-6 cp nightblade for the extra damage with the pandemic affect?

I would do sims myself on it but I'm not good at manipulating the apl

[torn flume]

You would do that even without finality

The thing that changes would be not overwriting a finality nightblade

[icy mango]

I should be more specific. When you've got finality and you immediately reapply nightblade asap

so you apply a 5-6cp nightblade, build to 5-6cp, then nightblade again with the finality buff

[ember wigeon]

damn finality should show somehow ingame

it's bad you have to track it

[torn flume]

I doubt ut

You are wasting 5 combo points

For 20ish percent on a nightblade

[icy mango]

That makes sense.

[fathom bramble]

you have buffs for finality

once again you finish at >=5 CPs as Sub

[torn flume]

He wasn't asking that

I don't think

[fathom bramble]

you don't insta overwrite NB

cos you then use 10+ CPs for 1 NB

which is a loss obviously

[torn flume]

Riff how do you handle being at weird combo points while dance

[fathom bramble]

define weird

[flat imp]

Sim myself as outlaw and haste came as first stat. Any clue about that? Should we go into kind haste softcap?

[torn flume]

Ss x2 would put you at 4

[fathom bramble]

you go into ShD with 1

[torn flume]

Do either finish with 4 or

Ss again and hope you don't get a proc

[fathom bramble]

proc?

[torn flume]

Shadow tech

[fathom bramble]

you play as if ShT doesn't exist

it's useless to worry about

[torn flume]

So during dance without proc would you ssx3 finisher ss

[ember wigeon]

no you enter dance at 1 cp

I replied to you this morning about that :p

I mean I complained too, then kiwi pointed it

[torn flume]

Then there's either energy capping or cp capping

I guess you can just bs even if st procs

[ember wigeon]

I haven't playtested it so I can't answer that

but it should mitigate ss x3 which is the root of all evil

[hybrid leaf]

hmm, simming my char in subspec with master of shadows in a patchwork fight i get 294k, simming it with DfA i geht 292k...just 2k difference?

[acoustic lake]

cp capping from shadow techniques is not something you can play around

[torn flume]

Dfa is good at 3 plus

[acoustic lake]

better to enter dance with 1 cp at the risk of losing an ST proc than risking not getting an ST proc and having to SS 3x in a row

If you play correctly you shouldn't run into energy capping issues

[torn flume]

Say st procs to give you that 1 cp

Do you still backstab

Without an energy dump you may cap

[acoustic lake]

how much energy are you on

[tawny crown]

you said something about gouge earlier kiwi, how does that work?

[acoustic lake]

did I? I don't think I did, but essentially, for outlaw you can take dirty tricks and use gouge for free to get a combo point

doesn't work on boss targets though

[tawny crown]

maybe it wasnt you then lol, but thanks 😛

[torn flume]

Shadow tech is a million time s worse than hat

Playstyle wise

[old jungle]

I asked this in simple-questions but didn't see a response. Does ST have some sort of waste protection when it procs at 6CP's?

[ember wigeon]

I don't think there is

[acoustic lake]

there is none

[old jungle]

Great, thanks for the response

[torn flume]

Nerfs to specs should be accompanied with a refund of ap

[ember wigeon]

and what about legendaries?

[plush relic]

is it right to use SS on >= 2 targets?

[fathom bramble]

=3

in Shadow Dance

=2 outside of Shadow Dance

[burnt jacinth]

I would love deeper start if we had 120 energy still

Playing with 100 energy is not as smooth as I would like

[stark lion]

hey guys.. cant decide.. 840 fatebringer vs 885 black powder.. in know black powder is shit.. but 13 ilvl on weapon? :X

[acoustic lake]

Check that spreadsheet I just pinned, should make the decision easier

[plush relic]

ty @fathom bramble

[limber halo]

is that post nerf?

[stark frost]

hey, so sims say that using elaborate planning is better to go for, but i find myself constantly at 5 cp and useing mutilate at 5 cp to get a 6cp rupture feels really bad and hemmorage makes the rotation feel cleaner and more versatile. should i try to stick it out with planning or go hemmorage?

[stark lion]

thanks kiwi

[pulsar quail]

@fathom bramble so at 2 targets you SS for cp generation but you still shadows trike in shadow dance? While keeping Nightblade up on both?

[fathom bramble]

No ShD >=2 targets, ShD >=3 targets

[torn flume]

What about with leg boots or akari soul

[fathom bramble]

changes with boots I think

[pulsar quail]

Yea so you don't use ss in shd

But you still dance and strike?

[fathom bramble]

ugh

[random ember]

anyone got sims for relics?(assa)

[fathom bramble]

do people just ignore what I say

I basically just effing said how you use Shuriken Storm

-_-

[random ember]

Like how much is rupture damage better than crit?

[acoustic lake]

I just pinned the relic spreadsheet 20 minutes ago, please check the pins before asking questions

[fathom bramble]

should pin the bloody Shuriken Storm rules

people ask every 1 minute

[split dragon]

hey guys, where can I go to find some information on trinket rankings?

[acoustic lake]

well I can just delete those questions and people will get the general idea riff. Apparently people wanted EJ style moderation on this channel from the poll

You can find trinket sims at https://simc.skasch.com/

Check the upload dates, sims since the 25th of sep i believe will have the updated hotfixes

[pulsar quail]

I got what you were saying about storm I was just asking an additional question

[split dragon]

Thanks

[plush relic]

are there rules on when to save CotDB if AR is coming up soon, and vice versa?

e.g. 6 seconds to align cds otherwise you lose dps

[late gyro]

anyone have a list of pre-bis rinkets for sub please

[acoustic lake]

I literally answered this question maybe 4 comments above this

Please read the resources given before asking for everything to be handed to you

[late gyro]

i dont have this discord open 24/7

i popped in to ask a simple question

sorry

thanks for link anyway

[plush relic]

i dont see a lot of CD aligning in the APL which is why i was asking

usually it can change dps a lot

[hard stone]

@OTTERAY#6629

[muted field]

Asking for simc professionals to make sure I'm not losing my mind. I'm seeing SnD only 3% behind MfD now in my sims on patchwerk, and even or slightly ahead on hectic add cleave, with a very even stat weighting for scaling - will SnD outscale MfD and RtB for AoE eventually?

[unreal badge]

is there anyway to disable the pot of old war in simc?

[molten turret]

remove it from the APL

[spice pasture]

Are there any new sims out for the relics? Should I use an 840 runthrough or a 850 finisher energy cost?

[pseudo grove]

850

[faint nebula]

Ran sims to check which T1 talent is best. I've been hearing Ghostly ~= Swordmaster > Quickdraw, but my sims came out with Ghostly far, far below Swordmaster and Quickdraw (between which SM came out ahead by around 100 dps)

What gives?

Is it because of how my gear interacts with the talents?

[faint onyx]

Anyone have any thoughts on Assassination tier 1 talents? Is hemorrhage better than elaborate planning nowadays? Icy-veins says EP is slightly better, but they don't seem to update very often. Anyone have sims comparing them?

[faint nebula]

Also, ran the same sim between DfA and MfD, and it came out with DfA just above MfD

Am I simming poorly?

[rancid vortex]

prob depends on your stats/relics

[crisp totem]

@faint onyx I've presonally been using EP lately. I can't comment on which one is Statisticly better, but EP is much nicer to play with IMO.

It helps a lot for Aoeing in Mythics, and rupturing all targets (when hemoing felt like a waste of time).

[pulsar quail]

just ran my sub sim and it's telling me that haste is insanely high on my scale factors, doesn't seem right to me

[vast bobcat]

that just means for your current set of stats, you need more haste than you currently have

it doesnt mean haste is always your best stat

[pulsar quail]

gotcha, ty for the clarification

[red tiger]

hey im currently playing assassination and im wondering what is the best build to be going for at higher ilvls (857 atm)

[outer rapids]

#228879234540503040 might be better place

[balmy bison]

If I want to make comparisons between trinkets, based on my scale factors. Do I dump the id's in manually, or is there a script that can be used?

[manic bramble]

I just dump the IDs in manually by getting them off of wowhead, I don't know if there's a better way

if I wanted to compare relics what would be the fairest way to do it? No relics in other slots and just change one relic or is that too unrealistice?

[plush relic]

well are you changing all 3 slots at once

[balmy bison]

You want the flat value of one relic?

[manic bramble]

Nah just changing one slot

[plush relic]

take the better one of the 2 options then

keep the other 2 what you have

[manic bramble]

I may just set the other relics to like ghostly shell

or something to make sure it's not traits interfering with it

[bitter sonnet]

Guys for assassination, isn't it better and easier to use Master poison over Elaborate planning if you have Agonizing poison?

[balmy bison]

That's a better question for #228879234540503040 or #off-topic but the simple albeit reductive answer is no to better, maybe to easier.

[bitter sonnet]

but it gives 20% dmg increase over just 15% for 5 sec

I mean i guess only for single target cuz it relys on high agonizing poison stack.

[balmy bison]

Master poisoner doesn't increase the damage damage gained from Agonizing, only your mastery does that.

[bitter sonnet]

its text is that effect of the non-damaging effect by 20% so wouldn't it be logical to think that instead of 40%+2-%?

[balmy bison]

It would yes, but Elaborate has been simmed to be 18k higher dps than Master Poisoner on ST.

[bitter sonnet]

only thing I can think of is that Elaborate planning increases is (1.00(base)+0.40(agon))*1.15

as opposed to Master poisoner just increaseing base dmg by 1.60

so elaborate planning increases dmg by 1.61 when it is active. but you have to keep on refreshing it (which is not difficult but still something to work on) as opposed to 1.60 of master poisoner

really? hmmmm why would that be.....

See i thought this was why it wasn't really a "simple questions" kindda question

cuz mathmematically, master poisoner seem to be better (if not just as good) on single target. but it sims worse?

[balmy bison]

No I get why you ask, but I haven't looked into it, so I can't answer fully.

[shrewd pasture]

Does the EP sim use DP or AP?

[bitter sonnet]

I guess Elaborate planning is nicer if you are switching targets and cannot keep max stack on multiple target. beacuse EP buff is a self buff not a target debuff

[chrome sun]

it looks like a commit to ArtifactPower.adb broke the fixes we made for outlaw's relic again 😦

@pseudo grove - does the commit 860851 break the fix from a9dc47 ?

agixx looks like he pulled in the (messed up) blizzard client data: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/860651bfd26200e5f56a3fc5550ec39d5b88e9af

specifically, I think I need to functionally re-add the contents of this commit again: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/a9dc4795fe20801c6da86dd178dd8da1eb668864

[pseudo grove]

ask navv in our chan

can't check atm

(in raid)

[chrome sun]

no worries; i'm going to cherrypick that commit and fixup

[chrome sun]

okay, outlaw is (re)-fixed

[plush relic]

one thing i was a bit confused on, to get fixed builds you have to get them from github?

im not sure how often they release

[chrome sun]

the most-up-to-the-minute version of the code lives on simcraft

i think collision does a nightly release cut from whatever commit is the last commit as of midnight in some timezone

[plush relic]

and thats the main download link?

[chrome sun]

the nightly release, yes

[plush relic]

ok

[chrome sun]

but the MOST up to date version

is from compiling yourself

[plush relic]

do you know if the release had the bug or was it a commit that broke it

[chrome sun]

what does the nightly build sim for Outlaw_T19P ?

if it's 278k instead of 294k, then it's bugged

i don't ever use the nightlies, just the latest stuff, so I can't easily verify if the bug made it in or not

[plush relic]

ah

i guess i could just compile this version

[chrome sun]

here's my script

$ less update_simc.sh

cd simc/
git checkout -- profiles/
git pull
cd engine/
make clean
make -j DEBUG=1 optimized
echo "Latest simcraft updated."
cd /home/ubuntu/simc/
./generate_profiles.sh```

blows away current auto-generated profiles, updates to latest build, cleans up engine files, compiles in parallel, and regenerates profiels

can leave off DEBUG=1

might also want to specify a total number of make threads with make -j 4 or make -j 8 or whatever

raw -j will spin up a number of threads equal to the number of dependencies, which is a lot, and will eat a huge amount of memory - i'm running this on a super beefy aws instance, so i never worry about the compile footprint, but you might want to constrain that

[plush relic]

thanks!

[chrome sun]

👍

[strong surge]

latest version of sim is kinda odd

I change neck for one with clearly better stats

and dps gets lower

Or maybe I got too much mastery as posion sin, idk if its possible

[torpid wraith]

latest version doesnt count my 2 RT relics

[earnest fractal]

I ran several sims around the Ursoc trinket Bloodthirsty Instinct, all of them result in a ~60% uptime, while on WLC 30% seems avarage. Any thoughts ?

[shut epoch]

is assassination currently beating outlaw single target in emerald nightmare?

[split dragon]

is anyone willing to work with me and help me figgure out where im going wrong? outlaw rogue

[chrome sun]

@earnest fractal - known bug

will be fixed soon

[manic bramble]

@split dragon #off-topic or #228879234540503040 would be better for those questions

[high rapids]

anyone know an easy way to sim 6FF if I don't have one

wondering how much of a dps increase it is over my current trinks

[sand nova]

Wowhead should have the item ids

[real crag]

So, according to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2079309-Simulating-Relics, we're back to rolling for any 2

[manic bramble]

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_list.any.6&((!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)|!rtb_list.any.5))

Do the parhenthesis seem off to anyone else?

ohh maybe I'm just misunderstanding it

[real crag]

I'll take a look in my ide

[manic bramble]

they're not incorrect

I thought I understood what rtb_list.any was doing

but maybe I don't

[real crag]

I might check the code because I thought rtb_list.any.6 was referring to TB

like an index

BUT, later in the code it refers to buffs directly.

i mean later in the APL

[manic bramble]

That's what I assumed

but I can't find any references to rtb_list other than the APLs

[real crag]

i think i have the source code checked out somewhere

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/88eaa2d52ad3bc7be32e0d4abe05eec4c66a0df5/engine/class_modules/sc_rogue.cpp

[manic bramble]

yeah that's what I'm looking at now

[real crag]

yeah, assumption is correct

[manic bramble]

cool

[real crag]

const std::array<const buff_t*, 6> rtb_buffs = { {
buffs.broadsides,
buffs.buried_treasure,
buffs.grand_melee,
buffs.jolly_roger,
buffs.shark_infested_waters,
buffs.true_bearing
} };

[manic bramble]

any seems like a strange keyword to use

to get the full list

I get what it's doing now

it's retreiving any 6 buffs

[inland dust]

anyone know whats up with the message at the top? is that normal?

Player Xelyr has 'use_item' action with no custom buff or action setup.

[manic bramble]

check your cooldowns

you have a use_item call attached to your cooldowns

but no item to actually use

usually a trinket

[inland dust]

what should i do? look for a setting somewhere to disable?

[real crag]

Its in your APL

[inland dust]

i don't have on use trinkets

[real crag]

Don't worry about it

[manic bramble]

the APL you are using thinks you do

[real crag]

Its not affecting your sim

[manic bramble]

It won't break anything

by having it there

[real crag]

its trying to use something that isn't there

[manic bramble]

actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket1

[inland dust]

oh ok so i can just ignore it then

[manic bramble]

you're gonna have that line

or something like it

removing it will get rid of the warning

[plush grotto]

Looking for some help with my rogue if anyone has a minute.

[manic bramble]

it's just confused because it thinks there's a trinket to use but there isn't

[inland dust]

for convenience, its better to leave it though, correct?

[manic bramble]

@plush grotto #228878985210101760 is probably a better place for that

I mean, you can leave it and it will be fine

it's not hurting you

[real crag]

Just leave it, you won't need to change the APL if you get on use trinkets

I replaced that line btw with:

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!buff.true_bearing.up&((!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)|!buff.shark_infested_waters.up))

for readability - I might be missing some nuance but sims the same.

[manic bramble]

Okay cool

Urgh, outlaw is so annoying to sim

because I wanna do more repetitions

[real crag]

Interestingly, removing the bit about shark infested waters doens't affect the sim either

[manic bramble]

Meaning just keep any buff during buffs?

how many reps are you doing

cos it can be kinda sketch at low reps

I was running relic ilvl stuff with 10k

[real crag]

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_list.any.6)

hmm thats a fair point, i'm only running 10k

[manic bramble]

and I was getting that an 865 weapon was simming higher than an 866 weapon

10k is fine for quick and dirty stuff

but I feel like 25k+ should be run if possible

[real crag]

doing 25k now

[zealous compass]

I'm looking at making a webpage where you can sim your char

If the need is there I'll try to host it

[real crag]

you mean AMR?

😛

[zealous compass]

No, just a server running simcraft where you let my server with 32 xeons do the compute

Havent fully optimized it yet, swapped from vmware to hyper-v, but at the moment I do 100k iterations faster on it than 10k iterations om my pc

[manic bramble]

Damn, awesome

[real crag]

Kalam, how did you copy your other action lines?

my simc keeps crashing, don't know why

[manic bramble]

Mines like super wordy

[real crag]

actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_list.any.6&((!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)|!rtb_list.any.5))

copy=any_2 actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1)
copy=TB_rule actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=1&!rtb_list.any.6)

[manic bramble]

Like I just copied the entire APL each time

[real crag]

ahhh

yeah not sure if copy works with actions

well it does, but not for me

[manic bramble]

Lol

copy wasn't working for me

so I just did it manually

[real crag]

fair enough

i'll just queue 3 sims, too much effort

[manic bramble]

Lol

[real crag]

...and then forget which is which

[manic bramble]

I'm simming some shit to check if it's wrth waiting for cooldowns on shark

[real crag]

So, I simmed those 3 lines

[manic bramble]

but I'm only doing 10k reps because I'm about to do a dungeon

[real crag]

which were standard APL

[manic bramble]

what'd you get?

[real crag]

any 2 buffs

and any 2 buffs OR TB

[crimson sparrow]

How's poison bomb after buff? For both st and aoe

[real crag]

2 buffs > other 2 being equal

309.7k for any 2 buffs, 307k for default APL and any 2 buffs OR TB

thats 25k rotations

moral of the story, fuck outlaw

[manic bramble]

lol

[real crag]

oh, i ran 50k iterations

didn't notice

Also, funnily enough, DFA sims better than MFD on patchwork

[manic bramble]

That's not too surprising

[real crag]

Yeah, no MFD refresh

[manic bramble]

I wonder if it takes into account DFA locking you out

[real crag]

it does change the stat weights significantly on my char, pushes haste to the bottom

or near bottom

[manic bramble]

https://puu.sh/rryQi/2ad0d00994.png

So that's a kinda shitty image

[real crag]

Moral of the story, don't overthink outlaw

That hurts my heart

[manic bramble]

but there's Prioritize 2, prioritize 2, tb, and shark

which is the normal one

and hten I have independent

[real crag]

They're all within a margin of error

[manic bramble]

which is prioritize 2, TB or Shark if either AR or CotDB is up

but the interesing one is the 2nd one

which is waiting up to 15s on a shark buff

for cooldowns

It's only 10k reps like I said though

so there may be something to this

I need a better Naming Convention though :/

[real crag]

since you have the nice layout...

want to throw in a simple: actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<1)

which simply states to reroll if its down - thats a bit shit because it waits for it to finish

rather than clipping it

Actually I just did it, significant dps loss

This is all probably for nothing anyway, there's probably some element we're not factoring in. Because as far as I can tell, this was true in the old build of Simc prenerf

[zealous compass]

Using the latest nightly build, simming with sub (With way to much haste gear, since I wear almost full Swordsinger ;'() this are my stat weights

As I understood it, haste should be rather useless for sub, with mastery being very far ahead. Have I done something very wrong with my simulations, or is there something I am missing that makes haste relevant?

[upper wave]

Haste us relevant to a point, re: energy regeneration. But from any discussion ive had, passive increase as you progress should be enough.
looking at top Sub parses, people top performers are definitely stacking mastery and vers.

[manic bramble]

@real crag that's just keeping any buff?

[real crag]

Yeah b

Yeah*

[olive mauve]

For Sin.... what talents are used for poison build.

[manic pulsar]

2110111

#228879234540503040 #off-topic-moderated

[olive mauve]

Sorry about that wrong channel

[manic bramble]

@real crag, I'm gonna run some of the APL shit with 50k iterations over night to actually get a good idea

I'll let you know tomorrow what we get

[twin moth]

What is the optimal haste for sub? I"m at 9% and I keep getting stuck

Before I was able to strike 5 times during a dance..

10%? 15%?

[untold laurel]

@manic pulsar I'm not sure if this is the right place, also a bit anecdotal

[manic pulsar]

#off-topic-moderated #228879234540503040

[untold laurel]

Do you think the sim undervalues Nature's Call?

I see the rogue in exorsus use it, but it sims incredibly low as far as I've seen so far

[manic pulsar]

Maybe

I don't know much about trinket implementations unfortunately 😔

[twin moth]

Does anyone know how do trait points translate to %? What would 100 haste give me in %?

[acoustic lake]

@twin moth until you get the lego boots thats going to be an issue. Theres no way to get 100% chance to 2ss 1fin 2ss without em

you'd need like, 50% haste

without a proc of es

[ember wigeon]

when you consider the fact you can loot those boots anytime between now and never

[acoustic lake]

I believe every day

[stuck sapphire]

you can go virgor but thats a major dps loss

[twin moth]

When I followed the bug on SC and boosted haste, I got 5SS in a single dance..

I did go Vigor.. Almost every site I read recommends it..

And checking on the dummy confirmed it..

Though I'm never able to sustain my damage anyway..

The legendary boots are looted? I thought they're dropped.

[stuck sapphire]

well you dont need mutch haste to get 4 ss + 1 finisher during dance

[twin moth]

How do I know how much do I need?

With Vigor, I calculated around 20% haste

[stuck sapphire]

this is theorycrafting, you may consider discussing it in general chat

[twin moth]

That's a lot

[ember wigeon]

you can't reach that level of haste

raisonably

[acoustic lake]

i mean

theres nothing stopping you

if its a dps increase over other stats

[twin moth]

How do the points translate to %?

I have no way to tell - SC is bugged haste wise.. And I can't afford all that gold for enchants

[tough goblet]

@acoustic lake Hey kiwi. Do you know the Ourlaw relic trait Priority or value after the nerfs? I know Skasch said she's busy with other stuff for now

[acoustic lake]

Its pinned to this channel

[ember wigeon]

2160 = 6.65%

[tough goblet]

I'm new to disord

where to I see that

[stuck sapphire]

klick the pin icon

[ember wigeon]

so I guess 325 rating = 1%

[twin moth]

It says 2798 + 8.61% = 9% on my char

Actually makes sense with your calculation 😃

[ember wigeon]

325 * 8.61 = 2798

[twin moth]

Yup

[ember wigeon]

haste is important but if you manage to loot some ES relic it devalues

[tough goblet]

found it Thx guys

[twin moth]

So to get to 20% I need around 3500 :0

ES?

Ho

[ember wigeon]

energetic stabbing

[stuck sapphire]

no

[twin moth]

Energetic 😃

[ember wigeon]

I don't have any (fuck me) and this is my scale factors:

Këk Agi=10.98(0.21) AP=10.35(0.21) Crit=6.17(0.21) Haste=6.86(0.21) Mastery=7.04(0.21) Vers=6.82(0.21) Wdps=9.38(0.71) WOHdps=0.52(0.70)

[stuck sapphire]

3.526 = 10.85%

so thats not near 20%

[ember wigeon]

20% = 7500

[twin moth]

I mean additional 3500

To what I have now

[stuck sapphire]

if you go virgor you dont need that high haste tbh 7-10% are more then enough

[twin moth]

Hmm.. I forgot that I have 150 energy..

[stuck sapphire]

you have a highere energy regeneration aswell

[crisp basin]

@acoustic lake you sure about needing lots of haste for that?

my calculations show 3300 rating withoout accounting for lag and discregarding energetic stabbing

I dug up my sub spreadsheet recently

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZNKwxgeTLkr6sytQNai2Q1FhIxF9PQTi8VcLODDh3n0/edit#gid=0

[acoustic lake]

whats the math on that exactly

[ember wigeon]

M] Xaryen: my calculations show 3300 rating withoout accounting for lag and discregarding energetic stabbing

C3P0?

[twin moth]

For 5 SS per dance?

[crisp basin]

for 4SS + 1 fin

5 SS with DS is like so not doable

would need about 30k haste rating from a brief look

[twin moth]

Yeah.. need a lot of haste..

Eviscerate is 35 energy.. pretty close to SS

[crisp basin]

eviscerate generates 5 energy because of RS

[stuck sapphire]

nightblade generates 15

[crisp basin]

yes, but you dance too frequently to be able to refresh NB during every dance

[stuck sapphire]

well the only way to secure 4ss + 1 finisher atm is the boots or virgor talent

[ember wigeon]

or Bloodlust

[fathom bramble]

or lucky ES procs

[stuck sapphire]

well you dont have luck the entire fight nor bloodlust

[twin moth]

Where does it say that nightblade generates 40 energy?

[ember wigeon]

Relentless strikes

[stuck sapphire]

every finisher with 5 cp generates 40 energy, nightblades costs 25 so it generates 15

[ember wigeon]

also DS is 20% chance to get 40energy

[crisp basin]

per CP*

.

[ember wigeon]

yeah but I mean in addition to the 100%

[crisp basin]

oh with DS, sure

[hybrid leaf]

does someone have the infallible tracking charm string for lvl110 simc? i'd create it myself, but i am at work 😃

[ember wigeon]

if you get shT proc of course

[twin moth]

Maybe I should do some probabilistic optimization with combo points and energy

[ember wigeon]

without vigor it's really less enjoyable

also refreshing SoD is almost a guaranted missed ss

[stuck sapphire]

unless you are lucky

[ember wigeon]

I'm not that good enough to time SoD refresh with luck

[crisp basin]

if you dance at 3 CPs then you should be capable of 3SS+SoD provided you have at least some haste

[fathom bramble]

you should stick to dancing at <=1 tho

[crisp basin]

if you need to refresh SoD, the point of starting at 3 would be compensating for the missing SS

so you do SS+SoD, finisher, 2xSS

and its essentially same as the 2xSS fin 2xSS

[ember wigeon]

but you lose one gcd in shD

[crisp basin]

elaborate on that please

when doing 3SS+SoD youre limited by energy not time

[old jungle]

I like to refresh SoD around finisher energy. If You get a +80 you can SSx2 Fin SoD SSx2., if not then just SoD SS after the finisher

[ember wigeon]

so the whole idea is how many ss you can fit in a dance, if you fit only 3 you lose 1

with vigor you can always fit 4 even when refreshing sod

[crisp basin]

oh thought by losing one you meant ending up with 2SS+SoD, yeah then, 4SS+SoD isnt doable with DS

@acoustic lake if you find anything wrong in dance energy doc lemme know, but 4SS+finisher should be 100% secured with 3300

[acoustic lake]

I'll look it after raid

[crisp basin]

whether its desireable to got for that haste rating is an entirely different matter ofc

[hybrid leaf]

so, askmrrobot sim tells me "Mark of the claw" is better than "mark of the hidden satyr"... SIMC tells me it's the other way around... whom to trust here? 😃

[fathom bramble]

simc

[hybrid leaf]

thx riff

[twin moth]

I keep learning new things - apparently Goremaw gives 30 energy..

:0

[fathom bramble]

over time

not instantly

[ember wigeon]

yeah

pretty negligeable

over the course of the fight tbh

[acoustic lake]

oh

ohh

I forgot about that ability when I was doing prog earlier

[fathom bramble]

goremaw's?

[acoustic lake]

yeah

[fathom bramble]

like never pressed it?

[ember wigeon]

I put in where shadowstrike is when out of stealth and forget about it

it's 3 cp at least 😃

it should have synergise with shD or stealth and it would be a good opener

[twin moth]

Compared to the crazy DK ability, it's pretty lame.. But that's not for here..

[acoustic lake]

it wasn't even on my bars riff zz

[fathom bramble]

wow

you're a disgrace to subclub

you put the cr in subclub

😦

[acoustic lake]

mhm I should probably not have this general conversation in tc least I must delete my own comments 😛

But yes

[ember wigeon]

don't worry

[acoustic lake]

I will do better next time sorry to disgrace subclub

[ember wigeon]

everyone knows #tc-updates is in reality #subclub

[stuck sapphire]

can confirm i got 3.5k haste on the gear and you can fit 4ss+finisher in dance so 3.3k should be right

[twin moth]

Cool!

3.5k is around 10% haste, right?

[ember wigeon]

yes

[twin moth]

So I just need a little boost.. I was troubled by not being able to do it anymore

[stuck sapphire]

3.526 = 10.85% haste for me

[rich abyss]

Anybody here knows what specific stat weights to use for Assassination? I've seen different things on different sites and heard different things through word of mouth. Consensus seems to be crit >= vers and that haste and mastery are useless... but it would be really helpful if somebody had good weights i could use.

[plush relic]

"Math, models, simulations. This is not a place for questions about stat priorities. "

but to answer your question it varies

simming your character is the best way

my character has really high haste scaling because of my gear combination, for example

[rich abyss]

I am clearly blind

sorry

[plush relic]

https://goo.gl/YACUkz

[rich abyss]

thanks for the help.

[acoustic lake]

@crisp basin can you explain this spreadsheet real quick

sleep deprived

[crisp basin]

err doing Mythic 10 now

[acoustic lake]

np

I mean my reasoning was starting with 100 energy, ss - 40, + 10 from base regen, you're on 70, - 40 + 10, 40, +5 from eviscerate, + 10 from regen, 55, -40 + 10, 25. Now you're 15 energy short for that last SS with 1 second left (assuming no lag at all) on subterfuge. Sure if you could exactly use ss at 0.0 seconds remaining you'd make up another 10 in that last second so you'd only need enough haste to give you 5 energy over 5 seconds, which roughly what you've calculated here I think

Its just not feasible in game

my haste amount earlier was off by a few factors, I was thinking you needed to make up 25 energy in 5 seconds for some reason

[plush relic]

@pseudo grove @acoustic lake I was told you guys know a lot about the game. After the ranking of the world first race, we figured we should change the guild name. It was originaly "Not Serenity" but now they're shit. Can you theorycraft us a guild name?

[acoustic lake]

Not russian seems like a good one

[fathom bramble]

<doping scandal>

[acoustic lake]

I actually have 3.4k haste in game xaryen and theres no way I can get the combo without a proc

maybe around 15% you'd have enough to get around lag

[pseudo grove]

<Not Aethys> is fine

but that's a subject rather long to TC, sorry can't do it here :/

[fathom bramble]

I have 3.3k in game

[rigid pasture]

Not the channel for that

#228879234540503040

[torpid owl]

Oh sorry

[tough goblet]

Does anyone know if Relic iLevel equivelance on T19P pertain to T19Heroic?

[acoustic lake]

Can you do 2x 1x 2x in game then @fathom bramble

without es procs

[fathom bramble]

prob not

[acoustic lake]

oh well

just dream of lego boots and not worry about it ever again I guess

[fathom bramble]

I don't play enough to get a legendary

[ember wigeon]

I got a legendary and I don't play that much

but it's shit

[fathom bramble]

I mean literally I log in

do like 4 WQ and log out now

[high rapids]

Any sub rogues got a minute to look at my damage logs from last night and let me know if there's anywhere I could improve?

[rain lance]

This isn't the right channel, that question would be better in #off-topic or #228878985210101760

[high rapids]

ty fiery

[crisp basin]

@acoustic lake yeah looks like its lag ingame, managed to get it consistently with green daggers once I got around 5.6k haste rating

yeah playing around with the spreadsheet it looks very lag sensitive, almost every 100ms meaning 1000 rating

[stuck sapphire]

@stray oxide i can do 2x 1x 2x with 3.5k haste

@acoustic lake *

ill try to get as near to 3.3k later, my latenz is ~50-80 ms, ill report you later/tomorrow

[crisp basin]

is that with green daggers?

ie without energetic stabbing

[torn flume]

Do leg boots reduce the value of ES relics

[fathom bramble]

no

[ruby forge]

how good is Gnawed Thumb Ring (+5% magic dmg) for sub? It has great stats but is shadow dmg magic?

[rain lance]

better question for #off-topic or #228878985210101760

[ruby forge]

Well that is more of a question of how much dps boost is that 5% magic dmg and does it work for melee specs.

[torn flume]

Sim it

[fathom bramble]

it's not a big boost

[digital sluice]

Do its final outlaw fixes?

In simcraft

[torn flume]

Use the nightly builds

[pulsar quail]

What's the best use of sprint with thraxis boots? Obviously on pull right before your first RT but after that are you using it on cd? Outside of AR/CotD I've been using it at 5-6cps when I have mfd available to hopefully fit 3-4 RTs in that window

[unique carbon]

I'd use it similar to other CDs, anything with TB or SIW

But not entirely sure

Also try and work it with vanish off CD

For extra guaranteed crit plus cp

They hzve the same CD too iirc

[versed marten]

I sometimes use nitrous boost as in-fight potion If I have to avoid mechanic or get to boss fast. Is it more viable to use nitro with thraxi boots?

[west sigil]

As sub, after using all my shadow dances on pull, should I keep using them as I get them off cd or should I recharge them until just before I cap at 3 and keep it like that until my shadow blades is off cd?

[deft hatch]

@west sigil What does the APL do in simcraft?

@west sigil https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/legion-dev/profiles/Tier19M/Rogue_Subtlety_T19M.simc

[hard flax]

anyone able to help me with simcraft ? getting an error and not sure why

[soft mortar]

hey all, while running assassin does anyone know a good resource for your secondary stats and how much you should try to get? like versa crit mastery haste? Thanks

[scenic bay]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/15614963/latest Can someone lkook at this i feel like i do rlly low dmg compared to other outlaws

[soft mortar]

Ryan, a big issue with outlaw right now is a severe lack of consistency

[scenic bay]

Like is it worth it to switch?

[deft hatch]

#off-topic #228878985210101760 #228879234540503040

[soft mortar]

ryan hop to simple questions

[dry hull]

No one answering this in other channels: Nelf racial, shadowmeld - does it effect rupture/garrote dmg via Nightstalker talent?

[fathom bramble]

no

[dry hull]

ty

but i can smeld + SoD/SStrike for sub?

[fathom bramble]

Shadowstrike yes, Cheap Shot yes, Symbols of Death no

[dry hull]

k thx, riff

[rain gust]

Is simcraft calculating correctly when using The dreadlord's deceit? It seems to spam it much more then what appears intended on a patchwerk fight. It's the second highest damaging ability

[acoustic lake]

can you pm me the gear you're using so I can check that

[rain gust]

want the simcraft copy paste?

[acoustic lake]

yes please

Shuriken storm is only 4.1% of your damage and its casting it once per minute on my sim, which is what it should do

You're probably looking at the damage per execute chart

which shows how much damage that ability does each time you use it, obviously with the cloak shuriken storm is going to be high on that chart, but you're only using it once a minute

[rain gust]

I feel bad and i should feel bad

Thanks anyway and sorry for wasting your time

[pastel carbon]

is simcraft up to date on the website?

[manic pulsar]

#off-topic-moderated #228879234540503040

[pastel carbon]

still it could have taken less time to answer a simple question

[soft mortar]

in the assassin spec, if you decide to go with agonizing poison as your 90 tier instead of exsanguinate, would this change your stat priority to increase the value of mastery?

[clear raft]

what amount of versatility should I be looking for in my OL spec?

right now im at
49% Mastery, 29% Critical Strike, 14% Haste, 8% Versatility and can do 160k dps

[austere bramble]

this doesnt belong in theorycraft channel

[clear raft]

okay then where should it go if we're not theorycrafting the stats

[austere bramble]

simple questions

because the correct answer is to sim your own toon

for personal stat weights

[strong ice]

Is spontaneous appendages simming correctly? My 850 SA is simming less than 840 spiked counterweight for sin but my stat weights have mastery>haste

And SA gives static mastery where as counterweight gives static haste

Or is the sa proc just major dog shit

[pseudo grove]

it has been hotfixed recently on simc @strong ice

should be better now

(tl;dr is this trinket ignore armor)

[strong ice]

Cheers aethys I'll try sim it again tonight then test in game

[midnight shale]

for some reason TB isnt reducing my CD on CoTD

anyone else experiencing this

[gleaming badger]

that's the norm

[chrome radish]

did it ever?

[gleaming badger]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=193359/true-bearing

[manic pulsar]

Did they change it?

It hasn't up to now for me

[midnight shale]

coulda swore it did haha im dumb as hell then

[gleaming badger]

no, it never has and it likely never will

[hybrid leaf]

never reduced CD od CoTD

would be insane if TB would do that..

you'd spam CoTD the whole time during TB uptime 😃

[gleaming badger]

yeah wouldn't that make TB hands down the best buff

at that point you could reroll to fish for TB specifically

and come out on top

[chrome radish]

it would be amazing

[acoustic lake]

Well that was the beta playstyle when true bearing was 3 second reduction and blurred time was the best golden

I think the current iteration is more fun long term 😛

[gaunt scroll]

It would be broken as balls

[jade talon]

there is no statweight yet is there?

[wicked lark]

there will never be if u don't sim urself - it all depends on ur gear --> https://goo.gl/YACUkz

[unique ore]

Sorry for this question, but i simmed my rogue for the First Time yesterday and got the stat weights. What do they tell me? Is that just the stats which im having with my gear? Like 7,01 mastery, 6,79 vers

I dont understand it that much :/

[summer finch]

1 mastery grants you 7.01 dps, 1 vers grants you 6.79 right now

if you get another item these values might change

well not exactly the dps, but that are your stat weights

[unique ore]

I understand, that makes sense now 😃

[grand orbit]

you can get the addon pawn and put the stat weights in there

it'll tell you on the items then whats good

thats what most ppl do

[unique ore]

Im having pawn already

But the stats Are showing like: 0,51 mastery or 0,69 vers

And agi is 1

[summer finch]

thats the relative distribution to agility. agility is the base with 1, and 1 mastery is worth 0.51 agility

[unique ore]

The Guide telling me to import the stat weights into pawn. But The Numbers Are totally different, which i already told. Im feeling kinda hopeless in this. Having 0 experience^^

[summer finch]

agility is 1, master 0.51, etc

pawn just multiplies thes values with the amount on the item and the result is a number

you can compare that number between items

[unique ore]

Simc telling u, that u get 1 dps from 7,01 vers. But pawn telling u that 0,51 mastery is 1 dps or equal to 1 agility?

Ahhh. It multiplies

[summer finch]

ok wait.

your item has 2k agility, 750 vers, 400 mastery

cause you simed yourself you know your stat weights. agility is always 1, cause its the base. the sims tell you now that vers ist lik 0.69

that means 1 point of versatility is 69% worth of 1 point agility

pawn takes these stat weights and calculates the final score for one item

so: 2000x1 + 750x0,69 + 400x0.51

[unique ore]

But like u said, Simc telling me im getting 7,01 dps each vers. But pawn just saying, how strong each stat is

[summer finch]

the bigger numbers you also get with simming yourself (7.01, 6.54 etc) are absolute and telling you how much dps you gain from a single point of stat.

[unique ore]

The Guide tells me to put The simc into pawn. Does it even make sense?

[summer finch]

you could use them too..

[unique ore]

Im just confused of all these different stat weights u getting

[summer finch]

they are the same, one absolute, the other relative to agility

[unique ore]

Okay

[summer finch]

cant exlpain it better sorry ^^

[unique ore]

Thanks for letting me know, i was lost in The World of Theorycraft haha

[summer finch]

when #226375547381350400 is ready (less buggy) you can compare there

[unique ore]

Simc > ask mr robot > shadowcraft? All things showing diff numbers. Completely diff numbers

[summer finch]

i dont know what profiles askmrrobot is using

but shadowcraft is for comparing items, you can ignore the dps number by itself

[unique ore]

So u switching armor pieces and sim After each swap, just for The stat weights?

[stuck sapphire]

back to the haste discussion: sub 3.278 haste and only slightly not beeing able to fit 2ss,finisher, 2ss , so 3.3k should be right 😃

[acoustic lake]

I think you overestimate how much of a difference 22 more haste is going to make for you

[stuck sapphire]

nah it was maybe the lag but i wasnt able to 100% of the time 2ss-finisher -2ss

[hybrid leaf]

you could simc your char with manipulated haste values to see at which points 3ss fit in 😉

[stuck sapphire]

the question was if 3.3k are enough to maintain it ingame

so in this case simc or papercrafting dont rly work

[plush relic]

you play with vigor?

[stuck sapphire]

no without virgor

[ivory prawn]

Egg shell or 1024 AGI + 830 critt trinket for assa rogue?

Like, the critt must outweigh the haste procc on egg shell right?

[stuck sapphire]

well we are in theoriecrafting, you should just sim it 😃

[ivory prawn]

How do you sim trinkets? (scrub)

[stuck sapphire]

you dont understand how simulation work.

[ivory prawn]

I know the basics but not how to sim like, diffrent items 😛

[acoustic lake]

the easiest way is to download the simc addon

you type /simc in game to get the required gearset to sim, just swap your trinkets around in game and get them from the addon

[old stag]

How can I manually change traits in simcraft? I'm assuming I have to change this "artifact=43:0:0:0:0:323:3:325:1:328:3:330:3:332:1:346:1:347:1:1276:1" line, but the numbers aren't the actual trait IDs

[crisp basin]

either use wowhead artifact calculator and then use the export button or use the wowdb calculator and just copy the URL

[fathom bramble]

it's "Link" on wowhead.com

[crisp basin]

also simc stuff should be #228878985210101760 or #228879234540503040 unless its something closely related to the rogue APLs or models

[old stag]

@crisp basin ah cheers and sorry, I saw a bunch of non-technical posts and assumed it was the appropriate channel

[stuck sapphire]

i was woundering if somone did the math for t18 2 pieces pre bull ?

[oblique pumice]

Oi friends. Quick question here. Which Assassination build is performing better now? The Agonizing Poison one or the one with Hemo?

[rain lance]

This is a better question for #228879234540503040 #off-topic or #228878985210101760, that said none of them will likely be able to give you a definite answer because it is gear dependent, your best bet is to sim yourself, check out skasch's guide in #rules-and-guides

[stuck sapphire]

from my first calculation it seems to be a benefit to use t18 2p pre bull.

[torn flume]

What was t18 2p again

It's been too long

[stuck sapphire]

5 cp + 10 secounds +30% dmg

when using vanish

[crisp basin]

have you tested if the buff sticks after unequipping the set?

[stuck sapphire]

yes it sticks

[torn flume]

Does that affect old war damage

Since they clone you

[stuck sapphire]

thats a briliant question

i havent tested it

[torn flume]

I deleted my old set pieces though

And i don't have item restore

It being monthly sucks

[rain lance]

Lets keep the conversation in this channel to working out whether the set bonus is worth using

[torn flume]

The only downside would be losing a vanish for the first 2 minutes right

[crisp basin]

well then simplified math, you lose vanish usage, therefore 3 SS casts, your first 10 seconds should have around 7 SS casts lets say, each gaining 7*1.3 for a total of 9.1 so you're 0.9 SS short, thats disregarding finishers and 5 CP

sounds like a pretty decent chance

to be worth doing

[torn flume]

And can you snapshot a finality buffed nightblade pandemic with the set bonus

[rain lance]

Another good question, I suspect no but worth testing

[crisp basin]

only thing that should be snapshottable is the stealth buffs so NS and for assn NS and subterfuge

[stuck sapphire]

my calculation was about the 30% buff and the benefit of it, that sayed i did not take procs/pots/etc into account but it seemed to be still worth

i can be wrong also ^^

[torn flume]

How long does a 5 cp nb last

[stuck sapphire]

you may want 6cp and start with ss to dont waste energy

16 secounds

for 5 cp

[torn flume]

How far behind is mfd compared to mos st

[stuck sapphire]

if you have enough targets mfd > mos

[torn flume]

Vanish-rupture-ss-ss- evisc (reg)-ss-ss-nightblade(pandemic)- ss-ss evisc(pandemic) sounds good but that seems like to many globals in 10 seconds

[stuck sapphire]

you know that this tier bonus is limited to sub?

[torn flume]

O im stupid i thought sub had mfd for a second didnt unclude that anyway lol

But maybe drop 1 ss at the end and hope it gets filed with shadow techniques

Or you get procs earlier and not need an ss there

[civic vector]

So, I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this. I am new to the channel. I am severely having issues performing in raid and instances. I believe that I am doing everything right. But my logs are sub par. Is this the right place to ask for help?

[torn flume]

How does that opener sound

[rain lance]

Roscoe, opener discussions and log analysis is better suited for #off-topic or #228878985210101760

[civic vector]

Thank you

[torn flume]

My opener was if the t18 bonus worked

[rain lance]

Dylan, you'd need to sim it to be sure, none of us can intuit the answer

[stuck sapphire]

kinda true

[torn flume]

O i thought you were simming it not just calculating. My bad fuu

[indigo elm]

Thought earlier Tiers bonus could not be use since legion when you reach 110

Like, Archi trinket

[stuck sapphire]

i did just raw math on how mutch energy i had and how many damage i get when i use certain abilities within this phase agains what damage i lose for it

well you could use panda tier bonuses with wod so i wasnt sure, i was told otherwise but it seems to work (buff is aplyed + 5 cp) tested on boss dummy and in the raid instance itself

[crisp basin]

you cant use old tier sets anymore

[indigo elm]

Yeah I knew the tricks with the T15 (overpower SnD)

[crisp basin]

but old consits of pre-HFC

[indigo elm]

So T17 do not work but T18 will ?

realise I sold my T18

[stuck sapphire]

you can get 2pices extremely quick if its comfirmed to be worth

[crisp basin]

Not suprising but looks like akaari doesnt benefit from the 2set

now to find someone whose willing to test the potions

also neither NB or finality: NB seem to be snapshotting Deathly Shadows

[stuck sapphire]

hmm intressting

[chrome sun]

(secretly glad i kept my HFC tier)

[white trail]

not sure it's the proper place to ask but what that last commit by @navv means? https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/0327b4a02ac993d0eb4f1859e96e7f6348f79c3d

[dark bronze]

How do I change the artifact traits I have in simcraft? I see the numbers in simcraft that are determining them but I have no reference as to which refers to what trait

[crisp basin]

@white trail MoS had 100% uptime in SimC

ends up being about 1.5% dps loss, and makes it equal with weapon master by the looks of it

[white trail]

@crisp basin thanks

[strong surge]

I'm siming 10k lower with agonizing poison, I guess something was fixed past 2 days?

[chrome sun]

@rain lance - how does shadowcraft model shadowy techniques (combo point chance on autoattack) ? what's the proc rate / is there an ICD?

[rain lance]

it procs per melee attack with a distribution of 0,0,0, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 for each swing after a proc

[chrome sun]

thinking about APL things with sub APL re: waiting for ST procs

[rain lance]

sorry, 0,0, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3

[chrome sun]

noted; cool.

[rain lance]

first 2 can't proc, next 3 are uniform

[chrome sun]

perfect.

oh, wow, that's actually pretty useful

[rain lance]

and you are guranteed to get a proc within 5

[chrome sun]

the old "let HAT fill in your points" thing

if you track the swing timer and "swings since last proc"

[rain lance]

potentially yes, I was thinking about this last night a bit

[chrome sun]

does simc expose a swing timer conditional expression anywhere?

you could see if the swing timer will land before the GCD is up

i don't remember seeing one in the wiki but maybe it exists

[rain lance]

yeah I don't know

[crisp basin]

I think last time we were considering this it ended up crashing on the fact that autos can miss, didnt it?

[chrome sun]

they certainly can

hmmm

I seem to be getting two combopoints from ST sometimes

oh

fortune's bite

duh.

two minute autoattack log on a raider's training dummy in stormwind:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tKvDXYJfkgQFdc2G/#type=summary&source=1&view=events&boss=0

[vast bobcat]

is it 0,0,1/3,1/3,1/3 or 0,0,1/3,2/3,3/3?

[chrome sun]

one is the pdf, the other is the cdf

[rain lance]

yeah

[white trail]

on top of that ShT can proc 2 if you picked artifact trait

can't recall what it's called

[vast bobcat]

Fortune's Bite

[fathom bramble]

Fortune's Shite

[chrome sun]

that first log is from the back; here's a log from the front

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dCjTKBwbpYkr39yz/#type=summary&source=3&view=events

unless i'm crazy, it looks like missed autoattacks can still proc shadow techniques?

00:00:06.465 Synecdoche swings at Raider's Training Dummy

00:00:06.465 Synecdoche Melee Raider's Training Dummy Miss

00:00:06.465 Synecdoche gains 1 Combo Points from Synecdoche's Shadow Techniques

so in theory you could have a weak aura that keeps track of swings mod 5

[rain lance]

hmm, proccing on misses would be new

I have in my notes it just ignores misses

[chrome sun]

take a look at the log? i can re-test

[rain lance]

yeah I'm just pulling it up

[chrome sun]

ohh nope

i'm wrong

no i'm wrong

[rain lance]

ok good

[chrome sun]

the log is tracking both hands independently

at least one of them has to hit

everything in that timeslice:

00:00:06.465    Synecdoche Melee Raider's Training Dummy 10816

00:00:06.465    Synecdoche swings at Raider's Training Dummy

00:00:06.465    Synecdoche Melee Raider's Training Dummy Miss

00:00:06.465    Synecdoche gains 1 Combo Points from Synecdoche's Shadow Techniques ```