Seer

[mellow lotus]

If seer checks a townie against someone with detection immunity, they now see Friends.

Notes

• Detection immunity against seer activates if the other player appears as town. If they are enchanted for example, then you won't show as town either. (this way you still show friends with enchanted townies)

If seer’s info is less reliable it would be good imo, I don’t think it would need massive nerfs after that

[keen whale]

Seer should have a 75% chance to misfire and give incorrect results

[mellow lotus]

SO REAL

We give seer a red herring like botc fortune teller 👍

[keen whale]

As a Blood in the Clocktower expert, I wholeheartedly agree 🙏

[mellow lotus]

😊

[keen whale]

love how the suggestion is called "Seer" and not "Seer rework" or "Seer Nerf"

Gives it an ominous feel

[mellow lotus]

s e e r

[slender trellis]

Me when I appear as friends with the apoc

(i'm coven)

[analog thorn]

welcome back ToUR oracle

[keen whale]

IIRC Town of Us also had a Seer that has a customizable misfire rate

(Obviously it could straight up just be off)

[analog thorn]

no, seer is guaranteed to work in ToUR

oracle has a customizable misfire rate

[keen whale]

OH. Gotcha.

[analog thorn]

it says it right here in the settings

[keen whale]

Never played ToU I've only seen gameplay of it

[analog thorn]

default is 80%

[analog thorn]

never played with it because it sounds cancerous

[keen whale]

100%

[analog thorn]

tbf ToUR seer is also lame as shit

it's sheriff but busted

since you have the ability to check multiple people per round

[little urchin]

why not just rework it

[keen whale]

Yeah

[mellow lotus]

I think it doesn’t need to be reworked necessarily? Plus most reworks I’ve seen are just “make it slower” which is both lame and doesn’t fix anything about the role itself

It still has the same fundamental issues just slower

[little urchin]

a big part of the issue is how fast it is though

[mellow lotus]

Not necessarily

[little urchin]

with the day 2 1f1s

[mellow lotus]

Seer gets non precise information

It’s not like sheriff where, if it worked like current seer it would just find every evil and confirm every townie

[keen whale]

Thought "make it slower" was a neat nerf until I had to play as Seer

[mellow lotus]

But sheriff has inaccuracies and is not reliable

[mellow lotus]

Yeahh, it’s lame in practice

[keen whale]

It fucking sucked so bad

[mellow lotus]

Plus

My ideology for TIs

They should be able to at least get some info N1

Town needs something to play off early game

There’s not enough time to scum read before the first executions

Scum reading comes later on

Slow seer sucks for that reason

[keen whale]

Political ideology of TIs 🕵️

[mellow lotus]

But it’s still oppressive

[icy dove]

Good buff for nks, as their usually very screwed if they get seered.

At least with factional evils they usually get the other person lynched first.

[feral nova]

What are your opinions on Spy

[mellow lotus]

It’s hard to say exactly but from what I have played with it, you can get very good info and confirm people as not evil

[elfin sleet]

its hard for n1 info with spy though

[mellow lotus]

I see what’s coming here

Yeah that

And to that I say if you play spy right you can get N1 info. Also, the lack of evil visits is sometimes information

Slow seer cannot get information N1, same for coroner, they both suck

Even though spy does not fit what I want from TI 100% it’s also definitely not removed from how I’d like to see these roles designed

[mellow ibex]

@mellow lotus

[azure maple]

what

[little urchin]

one time the seer claim died N1 and spy found enemies by bugging seer so I have high opinions of it

[faint pine]

I SAW TYHAT

WHOEVER JUST SILENTLY UPVOTED

RN

I SAW THAT

[elder plank]

The problem I see with the Seer is explicitly the information it receives.

Slowing it down makes the role boring. Restricting its targets even further makes it more wonky.

If you want a realistic Seer rework, the friends/enemies thing has to go.

[mellow lotus]

Tbf I have never seen value from that before so it’s awesome that you got some lmfaooooo

[mellow lotus]

100% agree. Framing is the only way seer can get wrong info at all really, its info is too good

And slowing it down doesn’t address the core issue you just have a slow and boring but still strong role

[keen whale]

truth

(turn seer into detective )

[slender trellis]

One random player will throw a false positive to seer ez fix

[little urchin]

Guys hear me out

Seer is reduced to 3 uses

[slender trellis]

[little urchin]

[neon perch]

seer checks to players and learns if at least one of them is the bookie, one random townie will appear as the bookie to that seer

[slender trellis]

BOTC moment probably

[mellow lotus]

botc fortune teller red herring no wayu

[slender trellis]

Illu still just makes you appear as "Town" to Seer right

[mellow lotus]

yuh probably

[slender trellis]

An Illusionist and a book holder walk into a bar
The Seer checks the illusioned book holder with an apoc, what happens

[mellow lotus]

Detection immunity would not proc if the other townie is enchanted

[slender trellis]

Huh

[mellow lotus]

That wasnt answering your question sorry

That was just in general

[mellow lotus]

Probably enemies since Illu makes them always appear coven right?

uhh

No nevermind

Because the book holder shows as town Bers shows as town too

Only if bers tho

Other apoc don't have detection immunity anymore

[neon perch]

no

still wish bers would

[mellow lotus]

bers would wha

[mellow lotus]

I'm actually not sure. Should two detection immune roles of diff alignments:

a. Show as friends (if a detection immune role dies that means the other one can still be evil)
b. they show enemies (one of them will die but it makes the other look confirmed)

[slender trellis]

Would be weird to have you appear as friends with all coven except for 1

[mellow lotus]

No matter what change gets chosen all coven appear friends with each other

Unless you have illu and they check the illu'd player against coven who is not detection immune

I just mean in terms of like, checking bookholder against an Arsonist

[slender trellis]

Okay I'll reword it

Would be weird to have Arso appear as friends with all coven except for 1

[mellow lotus]

uh

arso would appear friends with just book holder in a, or enemies with all coven in b

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding again lool

[slender trellis]

Arso has detection immunity right, so wouldn't they appear as friends with all coven?

[mellow lotus]

Noe

Detection immunity only shows friends if you're compared against town

Other coven don't have detection immunity anyway only book holder does

So even if arso showed as town permenantely, it'd still be enemies to other coven

[slender trellis]

Oh

Well I misinderstood the post then ig 😐

[mellow lotus]

Oh!

Oopsuy

[broken crest]

Ehhh doesn't really work here

[mellow lotus]

Yeah it was a joke dw lol

Without a storyteller to put the red herring intentionally it'd just be very annoying

[slender trellis]

We add a storyteller, problem solvef

[mellow lotus]

Of course !!

[slender trellis]

or feed the game state to ChatGPT

[azure maple]

can’t wait for chatgpt to accidentally reveal people’s roles

[slender trellis]

The easiest way to make it not reveal roles is by not giving it that information when it is sending stuff to everyone (but it can know when deciding on stuff in secret)

But I was moreso saying that AI decides who is red herring

[elfin sleet]

basically a storyteller

[azure maple]

idk I don’t play botc lol

[mellow lotus]

I am doubtful that an AI storyteller would ever work

[elfin sleet]

well they're very prone to human error

~~ like the time they pinged me in someones personal thread almost leaking their role~~

[mellow lotus]

My first DM with temp was temp telling me Eddy's role because I was disguising as Eddy on the clocktower server at the time

[slender trellis]

Identity theft is not a joke! Millions of Eddy's suffer from it every day!

[elfin sleet]

i mean probably

not millions though

[azure maple]

that’s actually really funny

[main geyser]

I uh
Know a game with an AI storyteller

Lmao

The game isn’t good but not because its run by an AI

[little urchin]

can someone introduce me properly to BOTC

[mellow lotus]

Oh really?

[mellow lotus]

How so? Just like places to learn how it works or actual games

[little urchin]

i dont know BOTC at all except that theres a seer counterpart?

and that spirits can vote

and also its sillhouettes look cool

[mellow lotus]

Botc has similarities with tos but a lot is different about it

[little urchin]

it can be played over discord so it should be similar to TOD

TOS*

[mellow lotus]

Biggest difference is that it’s a physical game run by a storyteller rather than an online game

But yeah it can be ran over discord

[little urchin]

Huh-

i thought playing on discord was just a side thing and that its an online game

[mellow lotus]

Nope !

They do have an official website where you can play games with tools that make it easier to play but

The game itself is physical

Its intended to be played in person but works fine online

[little urchin]

darn well playing over discord is cool

[mellow lotus]

Also overall botc is exceptionally designed for all styles of play, both casual and competitive which is why everyone who plays it loves it usually

[slender trellis]

And for my next role action, I shall swap Nuggy's seat to the red couch

[little urchin]

i thought from sillhouettes being shown that it was an online game

[mellow lotus]

Matron 😡

[mellow lotus]

What silhouettes do you mean btw?

You might be confusing it with another game

[little urchin]

well i dont fucking know myself

[mellow lotus]

What do the silhouettes look like

[mellow lotus]

Oh uh

Those are fanmade loool

[slender trellis]

Those look custom

[mellow lotus]

They do look very cool tbf

[little urchin]

ik but i thought they were inspired from BOTC sillhouettes bc of what temp said

[mellow lotus]

Sort of but not entirely

BOTC doesn’t have characters like that

One sec

[slender trellis]

Every role icon has like the same overlay

[mellow lotus]

Botc has role icons that look like this

They used the same sort of painty effects in their characters there

[little urchin]

ATHEIST???

[mellow lotus]

Oh yes

Atheist is

[elfin sleet]

its something

[mellow lotus]

Absolutely wild

Atheist is amazing

[elfin sleet]

all evils will be ran by AI iirc

and the "evils"

become town

[mellow lotus]

NO

NOT AI LOL

[elfin sleet]

or the storyteller

[mellow lotus]

Yes

[little urchin]

fucking hell was BOTC first made in 1800 like how chess was invented in 1300

[elfin sleet]

if the town votes its atheist they win

[mellow lotus]

Botc is very recent

[elfin sleet]

if they guess wrong they lose

[little urchin]

town jester but good

?!?!?!

[mellow lotus]

No uh

Lag spikes didn’t explain it well sorry lag

[slender trellis]

Fuck you

Votes the game host

[elfin sleet]

I have no idea what im talking about tbf

i havent tried BOTC yet

[mellow lotus]

Basically in an atheist game there are no evils

The game host pretends there are though, and they are allowed to break any rules they want to fake it being an evil game

When the Atheist is in play, all townies need to vote to kill the Game Host

If the atheist is real everyone wins

But if the atheist is not real and there are actually evils in the game, good loses and evils win

[little urchin]

is the atheist a player?

[mellow lotus]

Basically the game itself becomes evil and everyone has to kill it LOL

[slender trellis]

Yes

[mellow lotus]

The atheist is a player hes

Yes

[elfin sleet]

doesnt one player learn they are the athiest

[mellow lotus]

Then existing means there are no evils and the storyteller breaks rules

[mellow lotus]

No

The atheist knows they are the atheist

[little urchin]

atheist is a role and not an attachment like TT or ego yes?

[mellow lotus]

To be fair the atheist can also be drunk and just think they’re the atheist but there are actual evils

[mellow lotus]

Correct

It’s a role

Not a modifier

[tired grail]

Honestly, after everything, even if they are still powerful, Seer is honestly my LEAST FAVORITE TI.

[little urchin]

what does the atheist even do for its abilities

[slender trellis]

How difficult is it to vote tje game host

[little urchin]

is being town jester enough?

[slender trellis]

It knows all evils

[little urchin]

what evils?

[slender trellis]

Exactly

[tired grail]

For multiple reasons, like being uber-targeted, being locked out of doing jack shit in the late game, seeming sus for just doing your job if one of them dies, etc etc.

[mellow lotus]

The atheist doesn’t want to be killed

They want to kill the game host

[little urchin]

Cant evils just take hold of voting the game host and- oh yeah spirits can vote too

[mellow lotus]

Also atheist is probably the worst first role to learn about LOL

[little urchin]

SO THATS WHAT SPIRITS IS FOR

[mellow lotus]

Atheist is the most complicated role inthe entire game

YES

No evil majority in BOTC

[little urchin]

its the MOST complicated?

[mellow lotus]

Town has control until the very end

[mellow lotus]

By far yes

[little urchin]

im going to have a breeze

[slender trellis]

If evil gets maj and dead doesn't have enough votes, do evils just vote the storyteller to end the game?

[mellow lotus]

Well I don't think you understood atheist but

Yes LOL

[little urchin]

tell me another town role

[mellow lotus]

If there's an atheist on script yes

[tired grail]

Regardless, I think Seer's already been nerfed enough to be a specialist role, we don't need to make it MORE unreliable as well.

[mellow lotus]

But you can't vote storyteller if there's no atheist

[slender trellis]

Ah

[slender trellis]

Steward spawns knowing 1 good player

[mellow lotus]

General
Every night, the storyteller tells you if Good, Evil, or Neither teams are winning

[little urchin]

Dang

[main geyser]

Yah its called Airlock
Um
It has empath but immortal and it cant speak

[little urchin]

are evils all in one faction?

[mellow lotus]

Yes

[slender trellis]

Yes

[mellow lotus]

There is only good and evil

No neutrals no other factions

[little urchin]

BOOOOORING!

[mellow lotus]

You'd think that but

BOTC makes TOS look boring sometimes

LOL

[elfin sleet]

what makes it funny is negative utility townies

[little urchin]

im going to take a wild guess

do evils not know eachother

[mellow lotus]

No they do

[little urchin]

FUCK

[mellow lotus]

Well

Unless the town role Poppy Grower spawns

[elfin sleet]

poppygrower?

yeah

[mellow lotus]

Then evils don't know each other until it dies

[little urchin]

LOL

[slender trellis]

When you think you are the demon but you aren't

[little urchin]

why poppy grower though?

[mellow lotus]

LUNATIC LOL

Lunatic is a town role that thinks it's the Demon

[elfin sleet]

does the lunatic receive fake minions?

[mellow lotus]

Yes

[little urchin]

holy fuck i can feel the blood on the clocktower coming inside of me with each discovery

[mellow lotus]

It can be shown real minions ofc but

Yanno

Whatever you want

[icy dove]

That game seems like it's an absolute fever dream.

[mellow lotus]

BOTC has so many insane roles

[main geyser]

Drugs

[mellow lotus]

It certainly is

When I say it makes tos look boring I mean it

Tos has like 2% of the concepts that are in botc

[little urchin]

is there a requisite for me to join in a campaign or whatever the fuck they're called?

[icy dove]

I believe it now.

[slender trellis]

The requisite is pressing an invite link ig

[mellow lotus]

If you want to join a game they are hosted in many places

I will admit though it's not easy like tos to get a game

[little urchin]

its like object camps yah!

[mellow lotus]

Sure LOL

[main geyser]

What

Actually no im not gonna question it

[little urchin]

Dont you wanna battle to earn a prize?

also

learning the basics of BOTC has made me realize the potential of good roles passively debuffing evil ones

SPEAKING OF EVILS ROLES HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE EVEN FAKECLAIM-

[main geyser]

Its a lot easier to fakeclaim in botc than tos

[mellow lotus]

At the start of the game, the Demon learns three not-in-play town roles

[slender trellis]

Demon gets a few free roles that 100% don't exist (hmmm familiar), minions need to get lucky ig

[main geyser]

[mellow lotus]

Also every role is fake claimable in botc yeah

Not a single one is impossible to fake

[slender trellis]

TOS with no confirmable roles when

[mellow lotus]

There are some abilities that are confirmable, but, every role that has those it's difficult to activate

Banshee confirms itself but only if it gets killed

[main geyser]

I mean im a setup designer i could do it
But youd have to change so much about the game

[mellow lotus]

Professor can only be faked by Shabaloth but, it's easy to just wait a day and prove you aren't Shabaloth

[slender trellis]

That one role that confirms itself by killing the demon

[mellow lotus]

Slayer

Ends the game so

I think that doesn't count LOL

[little urchin]

if demon dies, evils lose?

[mellow lotus]

Yes

[main geyser]

Yes

[mellow lotus]

It's to compensate for the fact that good has so little info compared to tos

You don't learn anything about anyone that died

[icy dove]

So the demon is the evil VIP lol.

[mellow lotus]

You don't know if you were roleblocked (called poison in botc) you don't know if you were protected

[mellow lotus]

Yuh that's kind of stolen from botc LOL

[slender trellis]

Was there a difference between poison and being drunk or smth

[mellow lotus]

No difference at all

Drunk just comes from townies and Poison comes from evils

[little urchin]

If BOTC has Evil Pariahs it would definitely be 100% peak

[mellow lotus]

It doesn't have any lone wolf sort roles

[main geyser]

You don’t really need a lost wolf role in botc

[mellow lotus]

Would be super cool if there was some tbf

But there's no reason for it yeah

You can homebrew it though

It's super easy to invent new roles for botc

[main geyser]

Lost wolf is actually really annoying to design lmao

[mellow lotus]

Because there's nothing to code, you just run it

Don't need mods to add your own content to the game

Just need friends to play it

[slender trellis]

Damn

[little urchin]

..How many people per BOTC game? 15?

[mellow lotus]

LUL

[mellow lotus]

7-15 anywhere inbetween

[main geyser]

Tos moment

[mellow lotus]

technically you can have as few as 5 but that's a teensy game

7 is the minimum to have a decent game really

[main geyser]

Like actually tos’s UI is antithetical to how ive grown as a designer 😭

[slender trellis]

Just run TOS on Discord (this is a thing)

[mellow lotus]

fr ;A;

[little urchin]

do yall know bloxston mystery

[mellow lotus]

Just play botc instead

I have heard of it but uh

Not heard much good about it tbf LOL

[main geyser]

I’m a filthy forum mafia player
That’s where you see the truly amazing setups

[little urchin]

i tried to make an object camp around it but then my account got banned from discord

[slender trellis]

What's that

[little urchin]

Pretty well made TOS-inspired roblox game

[main geyser]

Well made is a stretch

But

[little urchin]

but during the night evils and townies have to actually do shit

like juggernaut and mafioso have to duke it out

[slender trellis]

I meant "object camp"

[little urchin]

look at you

[mellow lotus]

Like Battle for Dream island uh

It's just

[little urchin]

pathetic

[mellow lotus]

Total Drama Island / Survivor but with Objects as all the characters

[slender trellis]

Oh

[icy dove]

Ahhh

[mellow lotus]

It's an incredibly hyper niche but also very big community

[little urchin]

thank god Nuggy's here to back me up about object camps

[mellow lotus]

I was obsessed with them like 5 years ago LOL

[little urchin]

II 15 Released.

[mellow lotus]

Wow

[tired grail]

Can this just be renamed to a BOTC discussion thread?

[mellow lotus]

Uhhh

This is far from botc atp LOL

[icy dove]

This one thread has given me 3 different things to look into.

[little urchin]

i changed the topic

we could make an #off-topic thread to discuss BOTC?

[mellow lotus]

Also sorry I didn't respond before denver but I was talking about my autistic interest which is botc

[slender trellis]

Staying on topic in a Town of Salem server? Impossible

[mellow lotus]

Can do but I mean, I'm not bothered about people discussing stuff here

[little urchin]

So

blood

clocktower

I HUNGER FOR A GAME.

[icy dove]

I mean, how many look through suggestions anyways?

[little urchin]

Nuggy is the only mod

[slender trellis]

Just pin the important messages ez

[little urchin]

Tuba and Curtis usually never read suggestions

[mellow lotus]

A decent amount of people

Tuba does read suggestions but

[full axle]

me

[slender trellis]

Tuba sometimes comments on stuff

[mellow lotus]

Tuba lurks he doesn't comment LOL

[full axle]

I (used to) look through

[mellow lotus]

He will find this convo at some point

[slender trellis]

What if he's lurking right now...

[full axle]

real

[little urchin]

imagine tuba knows about object shows

[mellow lotus]

I'm sure he does

I'm sure he loves them secretly

[icy dove]

I certainly would if my phone wasn't on 3%, but maybe tomorrow.

[main geyser]

Tuba waits for the perfect moment to insert

[slender trellis]

Tuba when no one has said common Curtis L in the last 5 microseconds

[mellow lotus]

LOL

twinsies no way !

[slender trellis]

Yippee

I'm gonna save the gif now

[full axle]

Common Curtis L

[little urchin]

also @mellow lotus

Is BOTC even balanced?

Or does BOTC simply not require balance?

[mellow lotus]

BOTC is balanced for the most part

[full axle]

BOTC is more balanced then this

mess

[mellow lotus]

Also the thing with botc

Basically instead of rolelists it has scripts
Which are a list of the possible roles that can spawn
Any roles not on the role list basically don't exist for the purposes of that game

[full axle]

.

that

[mellow lotus]

So unlike tos you aren't balancing around 100 million roles

[full axle]

yeah

[mellow lotus]

You only need to consider the ones on script

Way easier

[little urchin]

Isnt that just reverse banning

[mellow lotus]

Yes basically

It's a whitelist instead of a blacklist

[little urchin]

Why though?

[full axle]

and it works way better

[little urchin]

Wont it be too easy to know what evils are in play?

[mellow lotus]

Because botc has over 100 roles

[full axle]

bc botc has way too much diverse roles

so

[mellow lotus]

That depends on the script

[full axle]

erm

you kinda need

a whitelist

[elfin sleet]

botc would be impossible to balance if every role could be present

[full axle]

yeah

[mellow lotus]

Some scripts have all loud evils, some scripts have all quiet evils

[full axle]

not all evils have to be in play

is the point

[mellow lotus]

Also it isn't like tos where anything on the list is a guaranteed spawn yeah

One second

[full axle]

post TB

[little urchin]

wait so

[main geyser]

Not really itd just be evil sided

[full axle]

Atheist

[main geyser]

ST choosing setup carries

[little urchin]

the host themselves directly decide what roles people are

[main geyser]

no

[full axle]

not really unless gardener

[main geyser]

they choose what roles are in play

[full axle]

yeah

[mellow lotus]

So this is a script

[main geyser]

you grabbed BMR first

okay

[mellow lotus]

It's all I hjad

I DIDNT HAVE TB LOL

[full axle]

I'd have done TB lmao

[mellow lotus]

Anyway what's important is that

Only 1 demon will spawn

1-4 minions will spawn

etc

You don't know which of those roles are in play though

[full axle]

this

is TB

[mellow lotus]

There's TB

But ugly

[main geyser]

aint no way you just grabbed old TB

[full axle]

lmao

[main geyser]

[full axle]

first search result

[mellow lotus]

There's no new TB on google searches

Only ugly ones

I grabbed BMR because I remade it using the script tool

Look I searched up trouble brewing and it came up with this (THIS IS NOT TROUBLE BREWING)

[full axle]

REAL

[main geyser]

hmmmmyes

[full axle]

LEECH

LMFAO

[mellow lotus]

I have 0 idea what the context of this script is but it's there

[main geyser]

the real TB on expert mode

[little urchin]

oh my gan

gambler is insane

[mellow lotus]

Looooool

[full axle]

well

[main geyser]

i like how they kept specifically librarian and poisoner

[little urchin]

GOSSIP IS FUCKING INASNE

WHAT THE FUCK

[forest hill]

atheist

[mellow lotus]

LOL

[full axle]

the thing here is

[main geyser]

gossip does not choose who dies

[full axle]

Poison

is a very powerful mechanic

[main geyser]

gossip will kill off their own team if they dont lie

[mellow lotus]

Gossip is a cool role

You can get powerful info but, at a cost

And also figuring out when your ability worked is part of the puzzle

No cause of death announcements or anything so, you have to figure out if the extra death was because of you or not

[full axle]

puzzle you said?

jk

[full axle]

.

[mellow lotus]

Or maybe the demon failed to kill, but your ability killed, so it makes your statement look false when it was actually true

BOTC has much more to figure out overall

But it's not fast as TOS so you have time to do that

[full axle]

just send them over to TCC

[mellow lotus]

LOL SHUSH

[little urchin]

does evil team have 1KPN?

[full axle]

:)

[full axle]

mostly yes

[main geyser]

usually

[mellow lotus]

Depends on the demon

[full axle]

yeah

[main geyser]

BMR is an exception

[full axle]

mostly yes

[full axle]

⬆️

[main geyser]

also other funny demons

like leviathan (:

[full axle]

Legion

[mellow lotus]

Shabaloth kills two players every night, but one of them might come back to life the following day

Leviathan doesn't kill at all, but evil wins on Day 5, or they win early if two townies are lynched

[little urchin]

DEATH BUT EVEN MORE OP?

[main geyser]

no not really

[full axle]

everyone knows levi is in play

if it is

[mellow lotus]

Well it's death that starts on day 1 but you have 5 days to find them

[full axle]

yeah

[mellow lotus]

But yeah you only get one wrong execution, assuming you kill a townie

[full axle]

the best thing about BotC
||There's no Pirate||

[mellow lotus]

Vigormortis is funny, it kills every night but if it kills a teammate they keep their ability from beyond the grave

So you don't know if deaths are good players necessarily

Which is important when dead players still get to talk and vote

[mellow lotus]

Psychopath:

[full axle]

TRUE

[forest hill]

psychopath

[mellow lotus]

Psycho is diff tho ik ik lool

[full axle]

Running a S&V game rn
It's d1 and they have not nomiated for literally the entire day
day ends in 30 min
f*cking goodness

[main geyser]

sadly i dont think psycho beats town 3-target nicki minaj themed rock paper scissors vigi (no I will not elaborate)

[mellow lotus]

WHAT

[full axle]

they are doing the vortox check the hard way

💀

fr

[mellow lotus]

LOL

big rip

[main geyser]

nice

[full axle]

they are lucky it's not vortox

smh

[mellow lotus]

happened to us once

We had a hard vortox check but it wasn't vortox luckily

[little urchin]

wait like

dead players can just freely talk after dying?

[mellow lotus]

I know that because I was Fang Gu and then I jumped to Tuba the next day :)

[mellow lotus]

Mhm!

They lose their ability but

They can still talk

And nobody learns anything about them like in tos

They just know they're a dead player

[little urchin]

adds a new meaning to conjurer being able to perma-roleblock tpows 💀

also

[full axle]

they just die
you don't know their role

[little urchin]

isnt this just "select 2 targets, one will die and the other will be drunk for the night."

[full axle]

so the town just
fills up with dead players trying to manipulate good to execute someone they want

[mellow lotus]

No

[full axle]

it's might

[full axle]

come back

it has a maybe clause

[little urchin]

50/50 coin flip ongh

[mellow lotus]

regurgitated meaning coming back to life in this instance

No uh

[main geyser]

it is not a coinflip

[mellow lotus]

The storyteller decides if someone comes back to life, mainly as a way to stop evils ending the game too fast
They will usually only revive once per game

[main geyser]

you'll see at best 2 resses, most likely 1

I have gone without rezzing

[main geyser]

(the shab missed a ton of their kills)

[mellow lotus]

Storyteller can do what they want ofc they can revive every day, or never, but usually if they want a fair game they revive one kill per game

From shabaloth

[little urchin]

have storytellers chose based on a 50 50 flip if theyre unsure

[main geyser]

they won via F3 Mastermind!

but

[mellow lotus]

Tbh if the ST is unsure they should usually not revive I'd say, that's a big game decision

[main geyser]

game was slower than I expected a 9p shab game to go

[mellow lotus]

Keep in mind that reviving someone means the game will go on longer

[little urchin]

...If they chose to not revive.. wouldnt that mean evils got 3PKN?

[mellow lotus]

No

[slender trellis]

2 kpn?

[mellow lotus]

Shabaloth gets 2 kills every night

But one of those two kills might come back to life tomorrow

[slender trellis]

Is that balanced if the ST never revives

[mellow lotus]

If nobody is revived it's still 2 kills

[little urchin]

i mean

[main geyser]

depends on how well the shab is doing

[mellow lotus]

Depends on how many kills shab gets

[little urchin]

i dont understand the evil killing systems

[main geyser]

(note I actually dont like shab that much lol)

[mellow lotus]

Like tos, you choose someone and they die

[slender trellis]

Demon go stabby

[mellow lotus]

Shabaloth is the only one who revives people it killed by the way

[main geyser]

but they dont add more killing demons so i have to homebrew them myself 🥲

[mellow lotus]

Other demons do not do this

Shabaloth is a funky demon

[little urchin]

THERE ARE DEMON CLASSICIFICATIONS?

[mellow lotus]

Imp is the simplest demon

[full axle]

yeah

[slender trellis]

Shabaloth

Classification: Funky

[full axle]

about right

REAL

[mellow lotus]

Demon is basically a sub-alignment
There can only be one demon
If the demon dies, good wins

[little urchin]

whats the * at the end of "each night" i keep seeing?

[mellow lotus]

That means except night 1

[slender trellis]

Not n1

[main geyser]

asterisk means you dont act n1

[mellow lotus]

Unlike tos evils do not kill N1

No N1 dying yay!

[full axle]

luckly

yeah

[main geyser]

this is because night 1 happens first

(and there's a day 1 vote. god bless)

[slender trellis]

Proceeds to hang the demon day 1

[forest hill]

[mellow lotus]

Technically can happen

[full axle]

in tos2 n1 might as well happen first
other than "TPLOPSYSPYINVEST[whateverelse] ON ME"

[mellow lotus]

Well not technically, it does happen but

It's rare

[slender trellis]

I have played 2 games of BOTC and they ended on D1 and D2

[mellow lotus]

Usually the ST balances it so the Demon lives to final 3

[mellow lotus]

what the fuck

I have only had a game end that early like 2 times LOL

[full axle]

by first botc game ended d1

[main geyser]

my first games of botc were uh

[little urchin]

wait so

[mellow lotus]

And yes I was the demon in one of them

[main geyser]

1. Unspeakable
2. BMR

[full axle]

i was choir and demon didn't claim a bluff
got into a 1f1

and got chopped

💀

[main geyser]

was courtier in bmr and didnt fire until n5 lmao

[mellow lotus]

Did demon kill the king n1?????

[full axle]

no

the demon didn't claim a bluff

[mellow lotus]

Oh

[full axle]

and got into a 1f1

[mellow lotus]

Well that's just silly

[full axle]

then refused to back down

💀

[little urchin]

"Game start -> Day 1 we get a random hang lmao -> Night 1" onwards?

[mellow lotus]

They literally had bluffs handed to them on a silver platter

[mellow lotus]

It's not a random hang

[main geyser]

btw my first ever game

[full axle]

no
Night 1 then Day 1

[mellow lotus]

This isn't tos where days are like 15 seconds long

[full axle]

yeah

[main geyser]

had a buffed Poppy Grower in it

[mellow lotus]

You have at least 5 minutes usually

[main geyser]

the demon didnt have bluffs

[mellow lotus]

Sometimes longer

[slender trellis]

Multiday weeeee

[mellow lotus]

So you have tons of time to discuss info and scumread

[main geyser]

also they were a jankass demon that didnt kill normally

[mellow lotus]

Go off in private chats with people, discuss strategies, get claims, find info etc

Random Lynching doesn't happen typically

[little urchin]

oh wait

[mellow lotus]

Also because BOTC has a ton of town roles that start knowing information

So you often have stuff to go off of D1

[little urchin]

"BOTC roles have a lot less info than TOS"

[slender trellis]

Daily routine: Get a molten brain because someone makes the most complex strats and you think they are fake

[main geyser]

yeah
they start with info and get no more

[mellow lotus]

Mhm

[little urchin]

what about dupe roles?

[main geyser]

by default there's no duplicates

[slender trellis]

Everything is unique

[full axle]

.

[mellow lotus]

Every role is unique, this is why the demon learns 3 fake claims

[little urchin]

what does BOTC amnesiac do exactly

[slender trellis]

Meanwhile that one BTOS2 modifier

[mellow lotus]

oh uh

[mellow lotus]

literally anything

[main geyser]

they have an unknown ability that the storyteller makes up on the spot

[little urchin]

HE CAN DO ANYTHING???

[mellow lotus]

The storyteller gives the amnesiac any ability they want

[full axle]

love how this turned into another botc session
idk how this turned into this
wasn't this post abt seer

[mellow lotus]

Yes ANYHTHING LOL

[little urchin]

AMNESIAC IS JESTER CONFIRMED

[mellow lotus]

You can technically do that if you really wanted LOL

[mellow lotus]

wdym noooo there is no proof this was about seer

[little urchin]

So balance matters but not with the amnesiac?

[elfin sleet]

the title

the op message

[main geyser]

it still matters

[slender trellis]

Someone imported BOTC amne into a multiday TOS2-style game and turned it into pros with 3 prosses, no cd, no guilt

[full axle]

we were talking abt seam
ah yes

💀

[mellow lotus]

This is what I mean when I say tos covers about 2% of the concepts in BOTC

[mellow lotus]

exactly !

[full axle]

perfect

[little urchin]

can ST change amne's wincon?

[full axle]

yes

[mellow lotus]

Uh

If they wanted to yes

[full axle]

but

let's not

[mellow lotus]

The amnesiac wouldn't know

Unless their ability stated they learn that

[forest hill]

tomfoolery

[full axle]

there's 2 wincons period in the game (other than like 20 others)
but there's only 2 factions, isn't that nice?

no draws either

[slender trellis]

Amne ability: You secretly are the demon 🤫

[mellow lotus]

Technically though yes with amnesiac you can change their win condition it's just

[full axle]

REAL

[mellow lotus]

Not a great idea LOL

The amne's ability could be "You win if you are executed, and lose otherwise. You learn this information"

[full axle]

yeah

[little urchin]

And people enjoy being the amnesiac?

[mellow lotus]

It can be fun

You can have any ability

[full axle]

sometimes

[elfin sleet]

make amne surv

[mellow lotus]

REAL

[forest hill]

amne ability: you are atheist but dont know it

[mellow lotus]

Storytellers tend to give Amnesiacs stronger abilities than regular townies, since they don't know what the info they are recieving actually does until they guess their ability

[little urchin]

EVILS GAIN MAJORITY SOMEHOW, VOTE FOR HOST AND FUCKING LOSE THE GAME

[slender trellis]

Amne ability: You may select a dead player and become their role

[elfin sleet]

cannibal sorta

[full axle]

I had an apprentice amne ability once

"Each night, choose a player. Learn the direct opposite of their alignment."

[mellow lotus]

wait

LOL

[little urchin]

LOL

[mellow lotus]

I just realised so

[full axle]

they didn't figure it out in time

they kept sniping evil too

💀

[mellow lotus]

They click on someone and learn "Evil!"
THEY ARE EVIL KILL THEM
(they are good but the amne learned evil)

[full axle]

yeah lmao

[mellow lotus]

THAT is evil

[full axle]

they learned evil once

[forest hill]

tomfoolery

[full axle]

and good 3 times

[elfin sleet]

surely they didn’t think it would have drawback

[full axle]

they lost

[mellow lotus]

LOL

[full axle]

💀

[mellow lotus]

HOLY SHIT

[full axle]

it was funny af

[mellow lotus]

Yeah it's a bit uh

Fell for it hook line and sinker

[full axle]

✅

[mellow lotus]

That your ability would just be OP sheriff

[forest hill]

🎣

[full axle]

they facepalmed when i told them

[mellow lotus]

LOL

[full axle]

the demon knew what it was too

[little urchin]

Hear me out: Amnesiac dies on day 5 due to their dementia worsening

[full axle]

bc they got sniped with it n1 💀

[mellow lotus]

LOL

Me when the amnesiac is just a shit outsider

OH YEAH

This is a good role

[slender trellis]

"Hmmm I feel like killing the Tinker tonight"

• ST

[mellow lotus]

I remember when funk was tinker and nobody was executing so I just killed funk

?funk

[full axle]

I honestly love Amne tho ngl

[elfin sleet]

drunk tinker expecting to die at any moment would be hilarious

[mellow lotus]

LOL

[full axle]

true...

[mellow lotus]

Me when the tinker claim is not dying HMM

That can be a legit way to help evils tho if they are suffering

[full axle]

I made a Mario think they were barber once

[mellow lotus]

Just do not kill the tinker

[full axle]

the player was bald

[slender trellis]

That's the part where the demon kills their teammate fr

[full axle]

💀

[mellow lotus]

BRUH

LMFAO

Oh yeah I was "marionette" once
(There is an infamous game where demon made me think I was marionette the entire game and I fucked it so bad for good)

[forest hill]

[mellow lotus]

I am gullible okay this is my big weakness in SDGs

[little urchin]

HEAR ME OUT

[elfin sleet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1199488317499125770/1232004167065665647/togif.gif

[slender trellis]

You should look at the ceiling irl

[full axle]

made recluse register as recluse to UT and RK
i forgor recluse had "even if dead" statement to it
But that actually put a hard sus on the UT and RK
and evil won

[mellow lotus]

what the fuck LMFAO

[slender trellis]

LOL

[full axle]

it was funny af

[mellow lotus]

based

Sometimes recluse just not registering as evil at all is sus

I wasted my slayer shot on a recluse claim rip

[full axle]

LOL

oof

LMFAO

[mellow lotus]

Tbf the info that game was so stacked that if that worked then good would've landslide won

But that made it look so so sus

[full axle]

the Savant

just nommed

[mellow lotus]

Because Librarian had learned recluse

[full axle]

the mutant

and the mutant got put on blok

[slender trellis]

Does amne ever get "you start knowing" abilities that they don't know the meaning of

[mellow lotus]

They can

[full axle]

...and the mutant nomed the savant back
Reason: "Why would you wanna exe me?"

[mellow lotus]

"You start knowing nothing"

[full axle]

💀

VORTOX IS ON THE F*CKING SCRIPT

[mellow lotus]

LUL

Vortox in tos would be horrible

Imagine

Idle town loses D1 LOL

[slender trellis]

You start knowing how many demons are in play (you just learnt 0)

[mellow lotus]

LUL

[full axle]

facts

[full axle]

I've done "YSK the demon player. One good player is "mad" that you're evil or both might die."

when the amne died that actually ended the madness and put the person mad in 1f1 with like 3 diff people who claimed to be harpy mad (harpy was also in play)

[mellow lotus]

Oh shoot

WOW LOL

[slender trellis]

lmao

[mellow lotus]

That's actually cool

[full axle]

I have interesting amne ideas

trust me

[mellow lotus]

That's cool though tbf

Unique amne ideas are best

As long as they have smart design

As evil I had to face an amne ability that was "You learn a chemical that has the same first letter as your target's role"
I was a fucking minion called "Yokai"

[full axle]

LOL

actually

[mellow lotus]

That was a grand time LOL

[full axle]

charades as an amne ability would be funny af

[mellow lotus]

LUL

true !

Oh my god yes actually

In person that'd be so great

[full axle]

the ST acts out the target's character

🧌

[mellow lotus]

LOL

[slender trellis]

Do STs ever give Amne an existing ability?

[mellow lotus]

They can do

But that's boring

[little urchin]

Inventor - The inventor creates a role idea. If the ST approves, a random town member's role is replaced by whatever the Inventor suggested. they can keep inventing roles as long as ST approves, but will give up from inventing if their invention was denied.

[full axle]

oh i forgot i don't have nitro

lmao

[slender trellis]

Yeah so question is: do they ever do it

[full axle]

I think there's a role that literally does this

named Inventor

[little urchin]

Nice

[mellow lotus]

Oh that would be really fun, only potential issue is though it might be insta confirm

[full axle]

it's homebrew

[little urchin]

LOL?

[full axle]

tho

[mellow lotus]

I haven't heard of it

[full axle]

yeah hold up

[mellow lotus]

It's not an official role tho

[slender trellis]

Insta confirm? In an SDG?

[mellow lotus]

I wonder

Where those roles could be found

If there's a particular game with a lot of them

Surely not

[slender trellis]

Guess we'll have to keep looking

[full axle]

found it
it was from TBA i think
Inventor (TF)
"Once per game, during the day, visit the Storyteller to create your ability: you learn a condition. Once met, you gain it."

[mellow lotus]

Ahh right

Well cool ideas either way

[little urchin]

Hmmm.. the invention is tranferred to ANY non-demon player?

[full axle]

I also had a TF role

Imaginary Friend
which actually was simliar af to that

which is funny

[mellow lotus]

Main thing is that someone will learn they have this ability, then they instantly know the inventor claim is real. Very strong in a game like this

But tbf

Demon can very easily fake it with their minions

[full axle]

this

Imaginary Friend
“Each day, you may privately visit the Storyteller to tell them an ability; once per game, if the Storyteller agrees, a Friend gains that ability that night, and learns this.”

[mellow lotus]

It's like a stronger version of Nightwatchman

[full axle]

the kicker here is that all demons misregister as friends

so you might just
buff the demon instead

[mellow lotus]

Also also you can let it be anyone the ST chooses, they won't give it the Demon unless there's some caveat

Like there's a second demon or smth LOL

Which is technically possible

[full axle]

POV Recluse registers as demon to SW

🔥

[little urchin]

ngl i like how much power the ST has over the game

[mellow lotus]

LUL

Yeah ST has a ton of influence

[full axle]

✅

[mellow lotus]

It's so much more fun to be a botc Storyteller than any other game host because many abilities directly involve your judgement

The most important thing as ST though is that you're playing to make an exciting game for all your players, not for yourself

[full axle]

Dungeon Master

🔥

[little urchin]

like you could troll the town like "Amnesiac Apprentice", CREATE ENTIRE ROLES JUST FOR YOUR GAME

[mellow lotus]

Tbf I meant like, in the SDG scape

[full axle]

true...

[mellow lotus]

Also the Poison mechanic

[little urchin]

i'd rather be BOTC storyteller than dungeon master

[mellow lotus]

Poison is botc's version of roleblock but it's silent

The fun part about that is

If your target would learn information while they are poisoned

You can tell them anything

[full axle]

I nominate this person

Reason: DM more fun

💀

[full axle]

.

I got trolled once

[mellow lotus]

This is a fun town role

You learn advice on how to win once you ask your question

But if you are poisoned

The ST can give you advice that actually hurts town

[little urchin]

What roles cause poison anyway?

[full axle]

I was puzzle drunk FT
and the ST fed me true info for half the game

[slender trellis]

Imagine hosting a dnd campaign but then you just start playing BOTC

[full axle]

it f*cked me up

puzzle guessed me too

lmao

[mellow lotus]

Lots of roles, most obvious one is Poisoner though

They poison someone every night

[little urchin]

Darn thats kinda unexpected

[elfin sleet]

[mellow lotus]

No Dashii is a demon who perma-poisons its starting neighbours

[elfin sleet]

[mellow lotus]

Lleech chooses a player as their "host", the host is perma poisoned but the Lleech is invincible while they live and can't even by lynched
(If the host dies they die too though)

[full axle]

there's

[mellow lotus]

Also another thing of note in this game

[full axle]

also

[elfin sleet]

can slayer shoot the host?

[full axle]

Drunk

Drinking is Poisoning

just

[mellow lotus]

Yes because of a Jinx

[full axle]

flavored differantly

[mellow lotus]

Which is basically a rule on how two roles interact

The Jinx states the Slayer can shoot the lleech host to win

[full axle]

yep

abt right

[mellow lotus]

tos has to have anything with specific interactions listed in attributes but

Jinxes are easier

there we go

[little urchin]

Why is it called Lleech

[mellow lotus]

It's a demon

They all have made up names

And in their infinite wisdom

They added one extra L to Leech

[little urchin]

LlOL

[mellow lotus]

LLMFAO

that's brilliant

[mellow lotus]

Also another fun thing about this game anyone who "can't die" will survive being lynched

[little urchin]

ok ima cook up another unbalanced role idea

[mellow lotus]

or executed

lynches are called executions

:)

[little urchin]

Peasant - 3 Random players, regardless of alignment is part of your coup and informed.
On day 4, you may choose to start a Revolution, executing everyone who is not part of your coup.

[neon perch]

i once accidentally duped roles

[mellow lotus]

Tea Lady is cool it's like a TP TS TI hybrid

[mellow lotus]

What alignment is this

[little urchin]

Town because its town

[mellow lotus]

Uh that's broken as town lol

But it might be an interesting demon?

It'd be shit tos baker tho tbf loool

[little urchin]

even more shit since spirits have voting power

[elfin sleet]

duped unique roles?

[mellow lotus]

This demon is funny because

Its ability is incredibly literal

[elfin sleet]

proposed doom rework moment

[mellow lotus]

If you choose to live, you live. As in, even if dead, you come back to life.

Al Had would only choose dead minions to revive with that tho ususally ofc

Unless they have some insane fake world they're cooking up to baffle everyone

Evil plots work so well in this game it's brilliant

[little urchin]

Doomsayer - Once per game, choose someone. If they were attacked, they cannot die for the rest of the game. if they were not attacked, you die.

[mellow lotus]

So it's

Reverse... BG?

You die if your target lives, but live if they were attacked

[little urchin]

yes

[mellow lotus]

brilliant

100/10 design

[elfin sleet]

real

[little urchin]

but er if a townie cannot die, wont evils have their game thrown out of the window

[mellow lotus]

Also something of note here, abilities stop working when you die unless it's stated they work beyond the grave so they would be unable to die until you die

[elfin sleet]

lynching ig

[mellow lotus]

No

If someone cannot die they can't be lynched

[elfin sleet]

alt wincons technically

[mellow lotus]

gotta go for that EVIL TWIN WIN

[little urchin]

is "cant die" the only type of defense in BOTC?

[mellow lotus]

This is a minion

[mellow lotus]

Sorta yeah. There's variations, "Safe from the demon" protects you from ALL demon abilities, but minions can kill you still

Also a couple roles only make you unable to die for the night like innkeeper

[little urchin]

Grave digger (Minion) - Ghosts are silenced when the grave digger is alive, but ghosts can still communicate with eachother.

feels too weak, is it?

[mellow lotus]

Hmm

No I think that's strong actually

It would ofc confirm when it dies but

That's okay

Being confirmed minion is a big downside tho tbf

[little urchin]

huh?

[mellow lotus]

So, when the Grave Digger is killed, all ghosts will be able to talk to the living again

Because dead players have no ability

That confirms the player who died as a Grave Digger

Which is good for the good team

[little urchin]

OHHH

also it can anti-synergize with shabaloth