Korina’s Jailor Rework

[next ravine]

Attack: None
Defense: None

Abilities:
Daytime: Jail: Pick some to jail at night.

At night, if you jailed someone, they are immune to all kills tonight. Jailed players will be roleblocked tonight as well.

Players can target someone in jail.
The jailor can anonymously talk to the jailee.

[nova granite]

Oh god, here we go again

Your funeral

[tiny swift]

oh not another

[gritty moss]

ah yes, no exing

[next ravine]

Executing is literally what makes jailor so oppressive

[gritty moss]

its the whole fucking point of jailor

high risk high reward tpow

this is literally just TP jailor

[nova granite]

The whole point is to gather information and claims?

[gritty moss]

and exe evils

[next ravine]

This is called Jailkeeper

[gritty moss]

OH MY GOD HE EVEN FUCKING RENAMED IT

[nova granite]

You have vigis for that

[next ravine]

Which can be played as TP, but mainly is a roleblocker

[severe ruin]

Jailor isn't being changed
Didn't Curtis already say

[nocturne lichen]

hm

[zealous orbit]

Jailor is literally an overbuffed version of Jailkeeper, whose purpose definitely wasn’t killing

So nah

[next ravine]

They

[gritty moss]

seriously?

[zealous orbit]

Anyway fuck it sure why not

[severe ruin]

I don't care what happens with Jailor

at all

[next ravine]

If you’re gonna get transphobic fuck off pls and ty <3

[severe ruin]

I don't care if Jailor can or can't exe, some people do, Marshal being the main tpow isn't that bad

[nova granite]

Marshal is the risk and reward tpow

[dry flint]

I dont hate this, it would be an interesting experiment. I think it would be neat to have 1 execution, but im also not an amazing balancer.

[nova granite]

There

[next ravine]

Tbh this is so people quit talking about reworking jailor

Idk why the image is there

[zealous orbit]

Having seen jailkeepers run in rolemadness before
They balance out as… very strong anyway

So

Its still fine as a TPow

[zealous orbit]

(Non-unique jailkeeper with 3 of them able to spawn was a good idea)

🙃

[dapper oxide]

this is way better than fucker's rework or hyper's rework ngl

but this is fine

[next ravine]

I could be sold on 1 exe

[dapper oxide]

still prefer vanilla jailor

[dry flint]

Imo the night chat keeps it in tpow category

[winged gate]

Yeah sure

[severe ruin]

I would like 1 Exe
But yea, vanilla Jailor + vanilla Marsh don't fit together

[zealous orbit]

Actually why am I saying this
Literally none spawned all like 5 times that setup got ran

I think a neutral fakeclaimed it once and that was it

Anyway

[winged gate]

I still think I like mine a little more

But this is good

[dapper oxide]

of course you do

[next ravine]

Literally the only reason jailor is op is exes

Remove them and the role is surprisingly balanced IMO

[zealous orbit]

Well it’s OP because the kit is insanely self synergistic

[severe ruin]

Yeah, I'm down for 1 Exe

[nocturne lichen]

2

2 exes

[severe ruin]

I wouldn't mind no exes but I'd prefer 1 because of power creep

[next ravine]

No

Two is too many

[winged gate]

2 exes but remove the protection and make the roleblock conditional

[dry flint]

Question, does this block visits(like current jailor) or just grant powerful defense?

[winged gate]

I think it starspawn bounces all attackers

Without providing defense

[next ravine]

Just defense

[dry flint]

Ok

[nova granite]

If we all band together, we can reduce the powercreep

[dry flint]

Yea i like this

[winged gate]

This is a whole hell of a lot more balanced than current jailor

[nocturne lichen]

i dont like the lack of exes and the protection

but sure

[winged gate]

But if Curtis and Tuba aren’t even for a small jailor nerf no way in hell this is being added

[next ravine]

Jailor’s exes is what makes it so strong

[severe ruin]

Jailor being TS and TP in one is fine, it's a tpow

[winged gate]

Cannot wait for the “jailor is fine” crowd to find this and swoop down

[next ravine]

It’s a pipedream but I can point at this whenever anyone suggests jaulor nerfs

[buoyant ledge]

Removing the TK and some of the TP part of it?
Sure

[nova granite]

We've done it in the past, we've gotten roles in out of peer pressure

[severe ruin]

like what

[nova granite]

Handler I think?

[winged gate]

Get this to a hundred upvotes

[zealous orbit]

That’s how teams got in i think

[nova granite]

And beguiler

[bold kernel]

is this still tpow?

[next ravine]

Yes

[winged gate]

Yeah

[severe ruin]

Yes

[nova granite]

THE FUCK YOU MEAN?

[winged gate]

Well if this wasn’t TPow I’d be voting very differently

[buoyant ledge]

Same

[severe ruin]

^^

[bold kernel]

well that makes my decision easier

[next ravine]

It just removes TK power from jailor

And allows people to still check jailed ppl

[buoyant ledge]

Its still easily self confirmed so its TPow
Deputy is just TPow hiding in the TK subalignment*

[severe ruin]

REVERT THE POWER CREEP

[nova granite]

We together can revert the power creep

[winged gate]

Dep is still weaker than vigi

But everyone refuses to see that

[buoyant ledge]

mfw a small enough Jailor nerf is mega downvoted
But ripping apart one of Jailor’s main abilities is upvoted lol

[nova granite]

can someone make a uncle same poster about reverting the powercreep

[next ravine]

I know what people like about jailor

[zealous orbit]

I thought they liked the killing

[severe ruin]

we want MAJOR nerfs not minor nerfs

[zealous orbit]

Lmao

[buoyant ledge]

Minor nerfs have a better chance at getting in 🤷
But ye this getting in would be awesome

[next ravine]

Yeah but TK

[zealous orbit]

Then again people like veteran for some reason so I think im just dissonant from average salem user’s opinions

[frail lance]

Yeah idk.

[zealous orbit]

(This of course means they’re all wrong because im the only one who can be right)

[buoyant ledge]

^^

Ditto

[zealous orbit]

NIHILISM

[severe ruin]

we got 10 upvotes

[frail lance]

Thank God SOME Jailor change is agreed on.

[nova granite]

I think people are attached to the killing aspects of jailor because it was a TK role in tos1

[next ravine]

This is how I’d run jailor in a forum game too LOL

[frail lance]

Exactly.

[severe ruin]

not the same game

[frail lance]

Like we have a literal role bucket for this kind of role.

Try to separate your bias lol.

[untold spire]

I don't even like vanilla Jailor because of how it's just

🧍‍♀️

[nova granite]

Btw sidenote, I can't believe we've power tripped so hard that protections need to do another thing or it's bad

[zealous orbit]

I mean I personally have run very fucking strange guaranteed power roles but they’ve basically all been more interesting than jailor

[weary sluice]

oh boy here we go again

[zealous orbit]

Even… if I think I burned the kitchen on a few

[severe ruin]

On the subject of TPow, I will stand by BToS2 Pros being good

It's insta confirm

[buoyant ledge]

Vanilla Jailor be like
🧍‍♀️ 💀
🧍‍♀️ 💀
🧍‍♀️ 💀

[winged gate]

How has this gotten NO DOWNVOTES

[nova granite]

It's impressive

[severe ruin]

because it's GOOD

[winged gate]

You would be wrong

[severe ruin]

That's an opinion

[winged gate]

Because there are so many things that can autoconfirm

[next ravine]

Bc I fixed jailor

[winged gate]

That have value

Pros is not one of them

[bold kernel]

oop

[nova granite]

I have beef now

[winged gate]

Laugh at the fool

[nova granite]

With who?

[weary sluice]

the way i only downvoted it cause he said there was none

[bold kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/duck-hunt-smash-laugh-gif-14326537

[severe ruin]

downvote based on opinion of the rework

I beg

[nova granite]

That's hilarious, I no longer have beef with you

[buoyant ledge]

Upvote AND Downvote
If youre Downvoting for the memes

[frail lance]

That's Hyper for you xd

[untold spire]

I meant the mafia one where it's just basically this rework

[bold kernel]

let's keep laughing anyway for the memz

https://tenor.com/view/smash-bro-king-dedede-laugh-gif-21062593

[zealous orbit]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tol1879/images/9/93/Fool-card-zh.min.png/revision/latest?cb=20181213061652

[weary sluice]

nuh uh

[severe ruin]

11 upvotes yay

[nova granite]

Troll box my beloved

[zealous orbit]

Never got to make good use of it as Fool because investigatives were just magnetically attracted to me I stg

[nova granite]

Lmao

[zealous orbit]

And fool can self frame

You know what that means

Anyway yeah dis rework should also make random spawning jailor not fucking awful which should be the main goal

[untold spire]

Anyway I'm indifferent on this rework

[severe ruin]

another legit downvote

[next ravine]

@north condor Explain

[untold spire]

Bye skinnies

[north condor]

So basically, if this gets implemented, jailor is basically moved to TI

[nova granite]

Yes?

[severe ruin]

nah it can rb

[next ravine]

Jailor is not TI

[nova granite]

Because it doesn't need killing

[buoyant ledge]

Its TI/TS/TP

[winged gate]

@weary sluice you can remove your fake downvote now

[weary sluice]

marshal's just cooler jailor anyway

[weary sluice]

true

[north condor]

Jailors whole thing

Is executing

[untold spire]

No it's not

[next ravine]

If we consider this TI, then tav is TI

[untold spire]

Anyway

[nova granite]

No it's not

[winged gate]

The chat box

[weary sluice]

tavern keeper is town investigative because it is investigatingf if the target is a serial killer

[winged gate]

Jailor is TI/TP/TS/TK

[buoyant ledge]

Marshal
And Deputy
Two basically TPows that can kill
Jailor is fine without killing

[nova granite]

TRUE

[winged gate]

Now it’s just TI/TP/TS

[buoyant ledge]

Extra Kills specifically

[zealous orbit]

Also if pros gets buffed to sorta match base game

[severe ruin]

So a reasonable TPow

[winged gate]

We’ve officially brought jailor down to monarch’s level, now let’s do the same with marshal

[zealous orbit]

Its another killing tpow

[nova granite]

You mean pros?

[zealous orbit]

And i think it will?

[buoyant ledge]

Pros BToS2 doesnt add kills

Marshal does

[north condor]

This rework may as well turn jailor into a confirmed vigilante slot

[nova granite]

Fair enough

[severe ruin]

it will once there's a reasonable nerf to vanilla pros

[winged gate]

Vanilla pros is just better marshal

[severe ruin]

Well Vigi is its own problem

[nova granite]

I think they are planning on using base game pros with some tweakd

[weak light]

I wanna add mafia.gg jailer

Fr

[nova granite]

And then overhauling deputy

[buoyant ledge]

Vigi is SO easy to make so much better

[next ravine]

Two bullets no hangman ez

[buoyant ledge]

+bullet penalty

Ye

[weak light]

Tp and tk is already op

Lol

[weak light]

Wrong you can die

❌

[winged gate]

We don’t balance around bad players

[north condor]

My issue with this is, this powersurges other tpow making this a competitive slot machine

(Aka pros and marshal)

[severe ruin]

im so confused by this message

[winged gate]

This does not powersurge other TPow what

[next ravine]

Marshal is a bad role that needs reworking anyways

[severe ruin]

can someone explain what this means

[weary sluice]

jailor prob still good

[next ravine]

Pros is ok as-is

[weak light]

Add mafia.gg jailer gg ez

[zealous orbit]

Prosecutor moment

[frail lance]

Marshal is..... Yikes.

[weary sluice]

idk what you'd really rework marshal into unless u just career ended its identity

cause it is just pros

[severe ruin]

I think Marshal is just gonna be the lead townie

[north condor]

Marshal needs to be removed until some of the counter methods are implemented

[next ravine]

Judge exists

SS exists

[winged gate]

Which one, the zero utility modded or the broken vanilla?

[weak light]

2 times night lynch

Done reworked for you

[next ravine]

Modded

[north condor]

Not guaranteed

[buoyant ledge]

I almost suggested this one for the fun of it

[untold spire]

My issue with Jailkeeper is that the protective/roleblocking just don't go together
I know it's meant to be where you can change playstyles but either way one is gonna be in your way no matter which you choose

[winged gate]

The modded one is zero utility

[untold spire]

And that annoys me

[next ravine]

It’s ok

[weak light]

Its meant to not br super op af

[weary sluice]

me when i get hung in the middle of the night

[winged gate]

My jailor rework removes the protection all together and makes jailor purely offensive/info gathering

[next ravine]

I’d like it more if it was a desperado, (kills someone, but if hits town pros dies instead)

[zealous orbit]

DESPERADO

[weak light]

Desperado moment

[zealous orbit]

I love desperado

[weary sluice]

desperado wut a reference to risk of rain 2

[weak light]

Me omw to hit the mayor

[winged gate]

It’s either:

1. Confirmation for the sake of confirmation
2. A worse majority stealer than mayor

[untold spire]

Yeah I know that but like

[weak light]

Mayor is a can of worms

[north condor]

How would this interact with doom/rit

[weak light]

Die

[next ravine]

Can still die to rit/doom

[bold kernel]

what's a desperado

[winged gate]

Shrug

[bold kernel]

you acted like it's an old friend and i've never heard of it before

[weak light]

Most unstop kills through jail

[zealous orbit]

Check a player. If they’re town, you die. If they’re not, they die.

[next ravine]

#1205214709691846758 message

[winged gate]

Gambler but ???

[frail lance]

Wow. Sounds lovely.

[weak light]

For evils

Basically

[bold kernel]

alright

[zealous orbit]

It’s funny as shit actually

[frail lance]

I'm just kidding lol.

[winged gate]

Wait it’s evil

What

[zealous orbit]

No desperados are always town

[winged gate]

Is that a joke role or

[next ravine]

Same as normal pros tt, doesn’t die

[weak light]

Its gambler but checks for evils

[winged gate]

I don’t know the game it’s from so maybe it’s balanced in that context

[next ravine]

Forum mafia roles

[weak light]

Untrusted

[frail lance]

"Desperado on 8 tn. WAIT NO NO N-"

[weak light]

Troll

[next ravine]

It’s always town

[winged gate]

Oh it’s untrusted

So it’s shit

[zealous orbit]

Hyper no desperados are town

[weak light]

No

[winged gate]

Gotcha

[weak light]

Its not untrusted

Or that i can remember

[bold kernel]

desperado sounds VERY simple

[next ravine]

Forum mafia communities have ran it for years

[winged gate]

Wait what is it from then

[next ravine]

It’s very reliable

Forum mafia

[weak light]

Normal mafia

[winged gate]

Oh

[weak light]

Forum

[next ravine]

I can link you ms’s role on it

[winged gate]

I don’t touch forum mafia

[weary sluice]

forum mafia jumpscare

[winged gate]

Because I’m worse at scumreading than being kind

[buoyant ledge]

You know what we should start suggesting?
Roles with dual alignments that arent TPow
(Aka Trickster and Trapper/BG/Crus)

Just place them in stone frfrfr

[next ravine]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Desperado_(Role)

[weak light]

Me when suspect mind

[bold kernel]

what if vigi was just turned into desperado (real) (not fake)

[next ravine]

Nah it should be pros who does

[buoyant ledge]

Suspect Mind one-shot ye

[next ravine]

Pros is just better as being depserado

[zealous orbit]

If pros becomes desperado you can keep the cutscene too

[next ravine]

Yeah

[weak light]

Forum mafia is truly a experience

[next ravine]

It also confirms a townie on its way out if wrong

Instead of just losing two townies

[weak light]

Suspect mind if they shoot scum they regain the shot

If not they die with tgeir target

Basically infinite deputy

[buoyant ledge]

Its close enough

[weak light]

Suspect mind chad

[next ravine]

Fuck it I’ll make that a suggestion too (laterh

[weak light]

The virgin desperado

[zealous orbit]

Okay fuck it im suggesting desperado prosecutor

[next ravine]

I wanna do it since I had the idea

[weak light]

Do a colab

[buoyant ledge]

Make all TPows Mayor + Able to be defended level fr

[zealous orbit]

Fair enuff

You do it

You might be slowmoded though

[weak light]

True....

[next ravine]

Lemme check

[weak light]

The virgin illusionist vs the chad fixer

[zealous orbit]

f i x e r

[untold spire]

I'd rather have something else that works better with one of them than just be clashing

[buoyant ledge]

I havent heard of Fixer in months wow

Agh

[weak light]

If you want ppl to complain buff jailor lmao

[weak light]

I love fixer

Its so silly

[untold spire]

I meant on original Jailkeeper

[weak light]

Eh fair

[short sapphire]

never cook again…

[weak light]

Tbf i like the jailer where you can jail only if there was no exe

[next ravine]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1205224803020312606

[untold spire]

Who

[short sapphire]

the suggestion

[severe ruin]

why doess it have 11 upvotes then

hmm

oh it's really good

[short sapphire]

this turns jailor from a tpow to a tp… no thanks…

[severe ruin]

wym it can rb and talk

tp does not rb

[north condor]

Theres a lot of fundamental issues about tpow, entirely crippling them isnt the solution im sure

[frail lance]

How TF is this crippling?

[north condor]

If jailor/vig/vet remain the only way for town to kill at night, its fine

And trick

[frail lance]

Nah. Jailor already does literally everything else.

[untold spire]

Well no

[north condor]

Remove jailors only way to force info out

Remove the whole “power” aspect

[frail lance]

Don't let it also give 3 extra kills.

[north condor]

Jailors kills could be like 2 max

Same with vig

[frail lance]

Nah there's no point.

Either don't change it or completely get rid of it.

[short sapphire]

This suggestion would make jailor the only TPow that cannot get someone killed by their own discretion

[north condor]

Monarch:

[frail lance]

Mayor can't do that either.

[zealous orbit]

Monarch and Mayor:

[frail lance]

OR Marshal.

[short sapphire]

oh true...

[dry flint]

Everyone but pros:

[north condor]

Mayors and marshal’s influence can get people hung

[frail lance]

CAN.

Being the keyword.

[short sapphire]

I'd only say monarch tho, mayor and marshal have extra votes to themselves

[frail lance]

Marshal gets 1 more. Coven push mislynches with Marshal all of the time.

That doesn't count.

[dry flint]

If youre jailed the person you are talking to is hard confirmed. Id say thats reason enough to talk.

[short sapphire]

yeah never said it was bulletproof but at least they have SOME type of way to shift the game

this jailor change makes it a glorified TP/TS

[north condor]

Just lie about not being jailed and push for mislynch

[zealous orbit]

what

[dry flint]

Any sane town would wait a night for somebody else to be jailed

[frail lance]

What? So you want it to literally fill every single bucket?

[zealous orbit]

who's trusting you over the jailor

[frail lance]

This person xd

[short sapphire]

Worse at being a TP because the jailed person is roleblocked, worse at being a TS because the roleblocked person cannot die

[dry flint]

And also, once the jailor is hung you're outed evil. So good luck surviving that.

[short sapphire]

Bodyguard and Tavern are literally better

[severe ruin]

Nah Tavern isn't better

[frail lance]

Not even close.

Do you know what a super roleblock is?

If you don't then I have nothing to tell you.

[north condor]

Most often, you dont need to super role block

[short sapphire]

on god...

[north condor]

On the rare occasion you go against pois/witch

[untold spire]

A lot of times you do

[short sapphire]

The roles that have roleblock immunity are usually the ones that are passive as well

[weak light]

Bold of you to assume the playerbase

[frail lance]

Yeah this is just... Not true lol.

[dry flint]

Thats a good point lmao

[frail lance]

Super role blocks are better in literally every way.

AND you don't protect your target you deny any visits.

[weak light]

The amount of jailors ive made deputy shoot

🤡

[frail lance]

You can block Apocalypse visits bro.

Don't tell me BG is better xd

[short sapphire]

Not with this change

This suggestion makes it so non-attacks still go through

[zealous orbit]

me stuffing the Mayor into jail (evil cannot touch them)

[severe ruin]

You have Jailed Pest.

[weak light]

Bg is op

[frail lance]

And that too.

[frail lance]

Oh yeah fr fr. BG is broken ig now.

[dry flint]

Non attackers still can visit with this rework

[zealous orbit]

i mean

whats a witch gonna do

[nocturne lichen]

it dies for being good

[dry flint]

good point i suppose

[short sapphire]

voodoo:

[weak light]

That does not mean its not op

[zealous orbit]

voodoo master being dummy OP moment

[short sapphire]

Actually poisoner can just poison the jailee

[weak light]

Just make the silence vote not appear

Dkne

[short sapphire]

Not an attack and it happens the next night

ez...

[nocturne lichen]

it means its unfun and also its not op for protecting

[zealous orbit]

i hate to break it to you but all other mechanics consider poison an attack

[nocturne lichen]

it can only stop direct attacks

poison is an attack

[untold spire]

Most of them don't do anything to a player that can't die

[nocturne lichen]

also is stupid

[weak light]

Unfun ≠ not op

Lol

[nocturne lichen]

i was making 2 different points

[weak light]

One of them is really not a good one

Lol

[short sapphire]

Jailor aint even overpowered I have no idea why this was suggested

[next ravine]

?????

[severe ruin]

There it is

[weak light]

While not being able to chain protect (which any tp should noy be able to), taking a 1f1 is damning for evil in all levels lol

[dry flint]

Yes it absolutely is compared to other tpows

[nocturne lichen]

yes...

im sorry your point is that evils can die to bg?

[short sapphire]

Has jailor carried town games? Sure, but most TPows are meant to carry the town

[frail lance]

Some people I convinced look at these posts while they are high.

[next ravine]

Tell me what’s not OP about:

• Having three kills
• Anon chat with someone
• Super RB them
• Prevent all other players from hitting them
• Saving them from dying thatnjight

[weak light]

Thats not op

[nocturne lichen]

yeah but they are nowhere as good as jailor

[weak light]

:smug:

[nocturne lichen]

also mayor just dies

[frail lance]

Having 3 kills you can't protect against btw.

[north condor]

Conjurer popping out the second you try to lead the town

If you say “im jailor”

[nocturne lichen]

...

[zealous orbit]

anyone can lead the town

[north condor]

Oh also rit

[severe ruin]

'JAILOR IS NOT OP JUST KILL THEM'

HAHAHAH

[weak light]

Also im def not wrong

[frail lance]

Skill issue.

[short sapphire]

Nahhh no way one person is isolated for one night thats crazy...

[nocturne lichen]

seer is not op just kill them

[buoyant ledge]

Help ive corrupted main chat into mafia.gg

[zealous orbit]

oh god it happened

[nocturne lichen]

thats the argument

[weak light]

Ga :smug:

[nocturne lichen]

again

[severe ruin]

seer is not op just kill them!

[frail lance]

Like all you are saying are skill issues @north condor I'm going to be honest.

[nocturne lichen]

shit role

[buoyant ledge]

Somebody turn it back to BToS2

[nocturne lichen]

also doesnt exist

[frail lance]

Don't reveal xd

[weak light]

Best role ever fym

[north condor]

Bro acts like ive done it before

[untold spire]

You can lead silently, that's how I play Jailor

[weak light]

Ive lead done as coroner

Lol

[frail lance]

Then why suggest it as a counterpoint?

[north condor]

i claim coroner and let seer lead

[weak light]

Me omw to get you dep shot

[north condor]

Its a preventative measure

[frail lance]

I.... Ok.

[north condor]

So jailor doesnt repeat jailor meta in tos1

[severe ruin]

'Jailor is NOT OP just kill them'
'Seer is NOT OP just kill them'
'Marsh is NOT OP just kill them'

[frail lance]

Yeah fr.

[short sapphire]

on god

[next ravine]

If your argumejt against a role nerf is “it can die” you have no argument

[short sapphire]

jailor already has some counterplay

[severe ruin]

Ah yes, 1 role

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1168233589016637500.webp?size=48&name=Starspawn~1&quality=lossless

[short sapphire]

multiple roles...

[frail lance]

2 roles - SOME Counterpoint.

Lol

[north condor]

Again, whats your argument for removing jailor’s attack

[next ravine]

Removing exes does this

[next ravine]

Giving jailor three kills is too many and too OP

[north condor]

So change it to 2

[nocturne lichen]

could reduce it to 2

[next ravine]

Still too many IMO

[nocturne lichen]

and remove the protection bit

[frail lance]

Eh.

[severe ruin]

Nah this is perfect imo

[frail lance]

That's a nothing change by itself.

[short sapphire]

Vigilante:
Prosecutor:

[nocturne lichen]

ofc

[gritty moss]

jailors thing is "night killing tpow" though

[north condor]

The worst i’d hit jailor is allowing pm or some shit to heal jailed

[gritty moss]

you cant just take that away

[north condor]

And 2 attacks

[severe ruin]

Allow me to introduce, Marshal rework!

[dry flint]

vigi and pros dont super RB the target or protect them

[frail lance]

We want to nerf Vigi too. Why is this your argument?

[next ravine]

Explain how you’d rebalance jailor then

[zealous orbit]

Vigilante has too many
Prosecutor doesn’t add KPN to the town at all

[gritty moss]

what does marsh have to do with this

[short sapphire]

WHAT

are you HIGH

[frail lance]

YEAH

[gritty moss]

no more protection

and less executes

[short sapphire]

I want whatever you're on

[severe ruin]

marsh at night + anon votes
simple nerf imo

[untold spire]

It doesn't need them, Jailor already does several other things

[frail lance]

ARE YOU

[short sapphire]

No WAY you want the town equivalent to mafioso nerfed

[frail lance]

Because you have said insane things for the last 30 mins xd

[north condor]

I believe the intention when adding jailor, was it would be able to execute people at their discretion

[dry flint]

Respectfully, no

[untold spire]

...girl

[severe ruin]

This just says why it's a bad thing

[untold spire]

They are in no way comparable except the Investigator result from the first game

[zealous orbit]

Town Mafioso real

[frail lance]

I don't understand man.

[severe ruin]

I don't do good reworks dw

[untold spire]

Please have a good day

[untold spire]

Overhauls exist babe

[next ravine]

People already agree on a nerf: two bullets, no hangman, lose all on misfire

[dry flint]

Fair enough i guess

[frail lance]

Do you say Vigilante is Town CK too?

[short sapphire]

thats a buff WHAT

[severe ruin]

Town CK, my favourite role

[frail lance]

Fr fr

[untold spire]

I'd prefer more than this but I'm fine with it

[next ravine]

That’s for vigi

[frail lance]

It's a buff for people who suck at the role lmao.

[untold spire]

This tells me you're bad at the game

[short sapphire]

Literally a buff, I'd take 2 bullets any day if I could still vote with town

[north condor]

Remove all of vigs shots, its too oppressive when played right - probably someone in this thread

[untold spire]

I know

[severe ruin]

the Townie role my favourite

[short sapphire]

Just punishes town less for making mistakes

[north condor]

Make it emotional support instead

[zealous orbit]

Your punishment is killing a townie
Das pretty bad

[untold spire]

^

[severe ruin]

I mean...
If you shoot a town, it still heavily hurts you

You given Coven +1 kill

Well done

[untold spire]

Overall it's a nerf, the punishment is still there but you lose a bullet overall

[short sapphire]

Nah, make it so the vigi also dies...

[frail lance]

NO

Again you ask me if I'm high...

And you say stuff like this.

Like XD

[short sapphire]

bro I was JOKING

gosh

[untold spire]

Death guilt is exactly one of the reasons as to why games are happening too fast

[severe ruin]

Do I believe that? no

seems like the thing you would say

[short sapphire]

but the small cost of one bullet so you cant get hung for making a mistake is more of a buff then a nerf

[proper isle]

@short sapphire has leveled up! (6 ➜ 7)

[short sapphire]

😊

[frail lance]

This is one of those communities where that would unironically be suggested.

We know this.

[severe ruin]

I don't think you realise how important losing 1 Townie in CTT+ is

[short sapphire]

Yeah I know how important it is

[north condor]

Or anything to be fair

[short sapphire]

but saying you're nerfing vigi to then basically give it a rework that benefits it more is pretty wild

[severe ruin]

Ye, we want to make all TPOWs equal

[short sapphire]

Mistakes for town are inevitable and less reprocussions makes it all the more better

[north condor]

The way we do this is moving monarch to ts cause theres no saving it from tpow (joke)

[severe ruin]

You know how powerful talking at night is...
And now you can 1) RB someone
And 2) Protect someone

Jailor with this rework is still very powerful

[short sapphire]

Boooooo

[next ravine]

It’s a nerf. Your punishment for misfiring is you become vanilla

[short sapphire]

The previous punishment was DEATH

I dont wanna hear it

this is a buff!

[north condor]

Killing is also an intended feature, thats why jailor loses jailing apon killing townies

[next ravine]

Yeah and death was too extreme

[short sapphire]

So how is this a nerf exactly?

oh boohoo i lost one bullet

in exchange for having less reprocussions

[severe ruin]

1 kill on an evil is very powerful

[next ravine]

It stops town from auto losing after one misfire

[short sapphire]

yeah and those changes benefit town more then the evils

[next ravine]

Oops wrong reply

[north condor]

Cant we keep vigilante to a dedicated thread

[short sapphire]

So its a BUFF\

how is this a NERF

[severe ruin]

-1 bullet????

[next ravine]

??????

-1 bullet???????

[short sapphire]

-1 bullet is NOTHING compared to less reprocussions

[weak light]

Desperado gaming

[north condor]

Theres obviously some miscommunication here, im so lost i need dora’s map here

[next ravine]

People hate desperado

[frail lance]

The talk of someone who isn't good at Vigilante xd

[weak light]

Suspect mind is clearly superior

[short sapphire]

Nahhh you're viewing things based on how you play

ever seen those town members who shoot the wrong guy?

[frail lance]

In AA sure.

[next ravine]

They lose the game for town

[short sapphire]

This change makes it so instead of -2 town members, its -1

[frail lance]

People know better here xd

Hangman is stupid.

[short sapphire]

And this makes it better for all sides

including the non vigis

[next ravine]

Yes so town doesn’t autolose

[severe ruin]

People in AA insta lose the game
People in JR do not shoot town

[frail lance]

^

[short sapphire]

Yeah I didnt say this was bad GOOBER

GOOBER!!!!

[frail lance]

Nah don't be hypocritical goober.

[next ravine]

Cursed be ye, woe upon ye. Curse of Cursed Soul upon ye crops

[short sapphire]

where did I say the vigi changes were bad my guy

these jailor changes are ass, but what about the vigi changes

[north condor]

Ok what has this conversation moved to

[severe ruin]

someone arguing about this change

[frail lance]

You are arguing about them in a way that makes it seem like you don't like them.

[short sapphire]

TLDR
Jailor changes are ass, just reduce the amount of executes they can do 👎

Proposed vigi changes overall buff the role rather then nerf it -1 bullet makes less of an impact compared to less hangman reprocussions throughout multiple games. 👍

[next ravine]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1205233717111562342

[winged gate]

I’m sick so I saw messages from this Maximino guy and thought it was shape given how similar their pfps are at first glance

[short sapphire]

😊

[winged gate]

I was like “holy fuck shape is giving his 2 cents???”

[weak light]

https://tenor.com/view/who-let-bro-cook-who-who-let-bro-cook-dont-let-him-cook-again-gif-13506486571730006439

[winged gate]

But no it’s just another jailor apologist

[frail lance]

Yeah.

But you know we hear all opinions here.

[short sapphire]

Just give jailor the hangman mechanic real

[north condor]

Terrible way to balance shit

[short sapphire]

😭

[winged gate]

You burn down the kitchen more than the devs

[frail lance]

Yeah we know that at least.

[short sapphire]

guys

cmon

you know i was joking

[frail lance]

Hangman literally is the dumbest mechanic.

[short sapphire]

right???

[north condor]

Fake and false

[frail lance]

...

[winged gate]

Jailor apologist

[north condor]

Hangman needs to be removed, its the most ass way to balance shit

[winged gate]

Based take

[weak light]

Me when vanilla mafia has this

[short sapphire]

Nah deputy deserves the hangman

[weak light]

Fym

[winged gate]

Dep is weaker than vigi already

[north condor]

Dep is vig for nk

[weak light]

Ugly pls cook

I cant support hearing this

[winged gate]

Ugly agrees with this

[weak light]

:(

[short sapphire]

reading...

[winged gate]

You’re so funny…

[weak light]

https://tenor.com/view/pon-gif-15097379091171620462

[short sapphire]

STOP!!!!

[north condor]

Im going to cook up an anti hangman suggestion later when i get home

[dry flint]

True 👍

Brings jailor in line with other tpows

[untold spire]

Or just don't fucking shoot a green bitch

[weak light]

Make hangman be old ret

[short sapphire]

but how will i carry evil games as tt jailor

[untold spire]

Deceive people like the game was meant to be

[short sapphire]

no!!!!!

[winged gate]

By having a lack of a skill issue

[short sapphire]

you can't do this to me 😭

[untold spire]

Yes I can

[weak light]

https://tenor.com/view/hat-kid-a-hat-in-time-not-smug-dance-gamergameygame1955-skill-is-ssue-gif-2640881766873341713

[winged gate]

Can’t wait for these people to find this thread

(ignoring the two that have already)

[frail lance]

Eh. This idea has way more support behind it.

[north condor]

What post is that

[frail lance]

So I'm not worried.

The other Jailor post.

[winged gate]

My jailor rework

[weak light]

Im downcoting

Bc

Its you

[next ravine]

@dapper oxide Give your opinion on this jailor rework

[weak light]

Curbis normally has L takes

[gritty moss]

so hes going to like this post?

[next ravine]

I’d hope so!

[gritty moss]

...thats not something you want

[short sapphire]

W takes

[winged gate]

Can’t wait for this to get locked and ignored

[nova granite]

I can't believe we've powercrept so far where killing a townie isn't a suitable punishment

[frail lance]

You really trying to Jinx us aren't you?

[next ravine]

Yea it is lol

[short sapphire]

honestly if jailor isnt harming the game then i dont see whats wrong with keeping it as is...

[next ravine]

If someone who usually says no to Jailor reworks says yes to mine that means its good

[next ravine]

It can solo carry

[short sapphire]

no it cant lol

[nocturne lichen]

something no other tpow can do

[nova granite]

Honestly I might make a powercreep discussion thread, it overlaps with all of the other threads but it needs to be discussed

[wraith rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-gta-sa-cj-gta-again-gif-20425950

[next ravine]

Yes it can wtf are you smoking

[short sapphire]

Solo carry the incoming basic attack

[nova granite]

Oh great the jailor defenders have found the post

[next ravine]

The ability to kill 3 evils without any repercussions is wild

The only scum you can’t kill are transformed apoc

And even then you KNOW THEY’RE APOC

BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T DIE

[short sapphire]

are we forgetting that this is a deception game

bro is acting like you know who everyone is

[north condor]

Listen, tos2 is professional slot machines at this rate

[next ravine]

It’s called reading the game

[weak light]

Can we nerd react and move on

[next ravine]

I’d recommend trying it, it helps a lot in finding scum

[frail lance]

Nah they can't read. Didn't you know? It's a fake concept.

[frail lance]

Fair.

[short sapphire]

:(

[winged gate]

Scumreading:

[zealous orbit]

Thinking back to an argument in tol server where someone unironically argued this

[next ravine]

Cursed be them, woe upon them. Curse of Cursed Souls upon them.

[winged gate]

Not having a skill issue:

[short sapphire]

Well ACTUALLY, scumreading is not always a fullproof strategy

[nova granite]

I like how people keep forgetting this is meant to be a social deduction game

[next ravine]

Ok and that justifies jailor how?

LOL

[gritty moss]

wrong chat-

[weak light]

This def deserves nerd react

LMAO

[short sapphire]

on god

[next ravine]

Nah that’s the right chat

[nova granite]

That was directed to you fucker

[short sapphire]

if jailor had reveal then i'd probably say its overpowered

[weak light]

Tf 😭

[next ravine]

@wraith rapids Why downvote?

[weak light]

Thats where you cross the line

[short sapphire]

the flaws of jailor come with the flaws of the town as a whole... uninformed...

[winged gate]

jailor apologist

[weak light]

Upvoting bc i like to nerd react

[nova granite]

My dude, it's almost impossible to fake claim jailor and get away with it

[next ravine]

Oh ik but I wanna hear why

[frail lance]

Because acting like you can't just reveal during the day.

[weak light]

Just be better

[wraith rapids]

i feel like jailor still needs 1 exe atleast

[winged gate]

“Jailor is balanced”
refuses to elaborate

[frail lance]

You really don't.

[weak light]

I like shooting jailors

[nova granite]

N4 you are just fucked

[weak light]

Ive made deputies shoot jailors

Its simply a skill matter

[nova granite]

Fair enough

[weak light]

Mind you i wqs evil LMAO

[short sapphire]

this

[nova granite]

I meant faking jailor in a no jailor game

[next ravine]

Ok that’s fair, I could see and agree with that. I think zero exes is more skilled

[wraith rapids]

"If you dont like something leave a downvote and leave"
Me : Leaves a downvote and leaves
Hyper : "JaIlOr DeFendeEr"

[weak light]

Thats easy just be better

[winged gate]

I never said “leave a downvote and leave”

[dapper oxide]

its better than fucker and hyper but i still like jailor the way it is im willing to test this out

[nova granite]

Honestly you might be onto something

[winged gate]

I think it’s assholey to downvote without explaining your reasoning

[north condor]

They were pinging me after i said one thing, downvoted it and left

[weak light]

Curbis has a W opinion for once?

Omg

[north condor]

Now my entire train ride home is explaining how jailor needs exes

[short sapphire]

hush... you cannot have your way with them... just silently leave...

[winged gate]

I still think offensive jailor is better than supportive jailor

[frail lance]

Yeah everything in this game is a skill issue, and if 3 Town Power exist in your role list then that means you suck. (Real)

[winged gate]

But this is fine

[next ravine]

Tbf I’m pinging everyone who does bc I’m curious the why

[weak light]

Tbf i dont like most of fuck3rs rewoek bc they threqd way too much into existing roles but thats another thing for another day

[short sapphire]

Forcing jailor to play a certain way is kinda ass imo

But hey THATS JUST ME

[frail lance]

It is.

Just you xd

[weak light]

Isnt that what a role is supposed to do tho

Like

[zealous orbit]

Me who gets pinged constantly in here for unrelated reworks i havent seen before said ping

[weak light]

You dont play like a vigilante when you are cleric

[nova granite]

Buddy, you explain why a thing sucks, so we can have a proper discussion

[next ravine]

He did

[frail lance]

Nah WHO NEEDS Role 🪣???

[next ravine]

Said jailor should have one exe

[fickle depot]

🍿

[zealous orbit]

I shoot the confirmed town to make sure coven doesn’t kill them
Why don’t you

[winged gate]

Hi new person please upvote

[nova granite]

Honest to god

[weak light]

Homestuck pfp?

[frail lance]

Mood.

OMG I want food now.

[short sapphire]

Jailor needs minimal changes I will DIE on this hill

[weak light]

Ok

https://tenor.com/view/your-house-is-no-longer-safe-hat-in-time-a-hat-in-time-hat-kid-gif-24219932

[next ravine]

Die then

[winged gate]

Maybe you’d prefer #1204476955030724679

[frail lance]

Welp. Have fun being stuck on the hill ig.

[nova granite]

Ok, how is jailor balanced

[winged gate]

Less extreme

[weak light]

Shameless promo

Disgusting

[frail lance]

XD

[short sapphire]

Is jailor overpowered...

[frail lance]

Tsk tsk

[nova granite]

It is

[winged gate]

Since when have I ever felt anything close to shame

[short sapphire]

aint no way...

[weak light]

We should all ditch tos and play TiS

[wraith rapids]

🍿

[nova granite]

Now, give me a proper response

[weak light]

Easier fr fr

[frail lance]

Fair point.

[nova granite]

Tell me how jailor is balanced

[winged gate]

Ditch tos and play BOTC

[nova granite]

In 5 or more sentences

[weak light]

Among us

[frail lance]

Wrong ping lol.

[weak light]

Is better

[nova granite]

Or your opinion is invalid

[winged gate]

Than BOTC?

Actual troll

[frail lance]

Meant to say fair point to this.

[weak light]

• mom said so

[zealous orbit]

Hyper now is not the time to plug clocktower i dont think

💀

[weak light]

^

[wraith rapids]

tf is BTOC

err

[weak light]

Please dont

[wraith rapids]

BOTC

[winged gate]

Gocj somehow is trolling while simultaneously having good takes

[weak light]

Dont

[next ravine]

Blood on the Clocktower

[frail lance]

Something that isn't ToS.

[winged gate]

Clocktower!

Time to plug

[weak light]

Do not the clocktower

[zealous orbit]

Literally no tact from you

[wraith rapids]

huh

[weak light]

Do not

Like gen do not

[winged gate]

Blood on the Clocktower

[short sapphire]

Jailor still requires the town to actually catch the evils
Arguably needs the most support to play it effectively
TIs gotta whisper info to them, TPs gotta be on them 24/7, and this is all without saying that jailor can just... be killed n1...

[winged gate]

Best SDG

[weak light]

Hyper

[frail lance]

Dw about it. If you want to learn more just go to the off topics channel.

[weak light]

Do not

[winged gate]

#1204095744500310126

[next ravine]

Scumreading

[weak light]

Hyper

[next ravine]

Learn to scumread

[weak light]

Dont

[zealous orbit]

Hyper

I stg

[next ravine]

Look at dead scum

[weak light]

I dont want -100 iq players

[next ravine]

Who voted it?

[weak light]

😭

[next ravine]

Who didn’t vote it?

[short sapphire]

If bros counter argument is gonna be scumreading then I don't know what else to say

[next ravine]

Was there an inno? Grab them

[wraith rapids]

how did this discussion go from jailor balance to another game entirely

[short sapphire]

"I'm right and you're wrong" ass mentality

[weak light]

Theres * in this

Tho

[next ravine]

BECAUSE A GOOD PLAYER AS JAILOR IS OPPRESSIVE

[frail lance]

Truth.

[weak light]

TRUE

[next ravine]

GOOD PLAYERS CAN SCUMREAD

[zealous orbit]

Well actually jailor ignores half of the scumreading angle because you don’t have to convince the rest of the town on your reads lmao

[north condor]

This is what 3 braincells do to people

[winged gate]

An average player as jailor is oppressive

[frail lance]

And people that aren't in AA are assumed to be good.

[winged gate]

A below average player as jailor is oppressive

[weak light]

True...

[frail lance]

That's how balancing works lol.

[zealous orbit]

No this is hyper having no tact
Literally thats it

[short sapphire]

Then go nerf vigi then 😒

(oh wait)

[next ravine]

You are trolling

[winged gate]

We want to

Trust me

[next ravine]

Gtfo here

The door

See yourself to it now

[weak light]

I just dont want hyper promoting bc i dont want -10 iq players joining :(

[next ravine]

You are banned from the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse

[winged gate]

Tact? What’s that?

[frail lance]

I mean that's plenty of people in these posts.

[short sapphire]

for being too much of a GAMER

[nova granite]

1. Every town role needs to catch evils
2. Most TIs publicly say their info regardless
3. Most TPow roles need tp on them 24/7

[weak light]

Why does that hurt

[frail lance]

Because it should.

[next ravine]

Woe upon ye, curses upon ye bloodline; curse of Cursed Soul upon ye crops in this famine

[weak light]

Lets continue nerd reacting them and moving on from thsi

[winged gate]

@vernal sundial check this one out

[wraith rapids]

trying to have an actual argument about jailor feels nigh impossible lmao

[short sapphire]

Just saying you need roles like Jailor and vigi to exist so the town doesnt get overrun by evils...

[wraith rapids]

🍿

[nova granite]

Typically you don't have it be a 9v6?

[vernal sundial]

I HAD TO RUNAFUCKING MARSTHON

TO FIND THAT

[nova granite]

Lmao

[vernal sundial]

YALL NEED TO CALM DOWN HOLY GUACAMOLE

[frail lance]

Here's some 💦 for you.

[next ravine]

Thank you!

[zealous orbit]

Just debate in good faith instead of plugging random ass shit, calling people’s opinions invalid, attacking people’s characters, and so on so forth

[short sapphire]

anything for you 😊

[nova granite]

I have code for a bot that will auto pin the top message in a forum thread

[zealous orbit]

This always happens with jailor threads because holy fucking shit

[vernal sundial]

So does this remove Jailor’s executions altogether ?

[frail lance]

That's really how polarizing Jailor is. Feels bad.

[next ravine]

@vernal sundial Since you’re here what’s your take on my rework?

Yeah

[frail lance]

Yes.

[vernal sundial]

Hrm

[short sapphire]

Yes....

[next ravine]

Removes exes + lets people hit them in jail still

[short sapphire]

(its ass)

[next ravine]

Can’t die in jail but TI can still check jailees

[dapper oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/yummers-the-boys-homelander-gif-26204488

[vernal sundial]

That’s interesting

[frail lance]

You said your point; stop trying to convince others.

[short sapphire]

Alright fine I WON'T...

[frail lance]

Like let people find their own opinion about it. Unlike Hyper have some tact.

[short sapphire]

i'll just be here... raging...

[next ravine]

@wraith rapids said one execute as an alternative as well.

[weak light]

Is holy guacamole good

[winged gate]

Have no tact

[zealous orbit]

Just stop going “Jailor is broken everyone who says otherwise is wrong” or “Jailor is fine and everyone who wants to rework it doesn’t know how balance works” and fucking explain

I can’t believe I have to be the reasonable one

[dapper oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-gif-26435093

[frail lance]

Ig this is how we are painting Hyper now lmao.

[short sapphire]

Legit just tone down jailor's execute and it'd be fine

[winged gate]

I’ve explained why jailor is shit so many times to deaf ears

[nova granite]

I thought I was being reasonable?

[wraith rapids]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/893950174467084388/1055424518987972700/UnsignedDivorcePapers.gif

[short sapphire]

-1 execute? Sure. -2? Go ahead!!

[weak light]

Amelia trying to be reasonable

[nocturne lichen]

i did explain why its broken

[short sapphire]

Just dont be a GOOBER and remove the whole ability

[weak light]

Fr

[nocturne lichen]

multiple times

[winged gate]

So have I

At this point it’s just not worth it

[nocturne lichen]

yeah nobody cares why jailors broken

[winged gate]

Because they refuse to change their minds

[nocturne lichen]

they care too much about their nostalgia

[frail lance]

I'm one of the only people here who says Jailor is strong and HASN'T posted their own rework. So I think I'm being very reasonable here.

[wraith rapids]

The pot calls the kettle black

[winged gate]

I’ve yet to see a single good point for jailor being balanced so

[nocturne lichen]

we literally explain why jailor is broken

[weak light]

I dont even think ive said any argument in all this time

Lol

[next ravine]

Good interesting or bad interesting?

[weak light]

Can it be neutral

[short sapphire]

ong...

[frail lance]

Probably the interesting interesting.

[weak light]

Lets make jailor a neutral

How bad could it possible be

[nocturne lichen]

ok would be cool ngl

[next ravine]

Well, that’d imply there’s no thoughts on my proposal

[nocturne lichen]

imagine np jailor without executes

[nova granite]

I uh, may or may not have a jailor nk

[zealous orbit]

I’m trying not to point any fingers, because I think there’s offenders on both sides of the debate. Don’t take it to heart

[weak light]

Your jailor nk is ass

.

[short sapphire]

Jailor NK sounds funny

[nova granite]

It's funny though

[short sapphire]

if this was a Jailor NK suggestion i'd +1 it...

[winged gate]

NK jailor was one of my first TOS ideas
TL;DR it was shit just like all my other early ideas

[weak light]

Nuh uh

[frail lance]

Funny and stupid AF.

Both

[weak light]

Specially when host fucks it up

[zealous orbit]

I am, in fact, genuinely just tired of every single jailor debate escalating to shit and locked threads

[weak light]

True

I just dont care atp lol

[frail lance]

So true.

[nocturne lichen]

it always just devolves to insults

and toxicity

[nova granite]

Honestly, what if we just deleted jailor?

[nocturne lichen]

even worse reaction

[short sapphire]

jailor apologist

[wraith rapids]

i wonder why

[zealous orbit]

Public outcry

[nocturne lichen]

gee i do wonder why

[winged gate]

I’d be for this

Ngl

I’d be for deleting TPow

[wraith rapids]

both sides refuse to ehar each other out and it devolves into madness

[winged gate]

“Town leader” my ass

[frail lance]

You know that's not happening though.

[nocturne lichen]

nah

[wraith rapids]

'course you would