Cull Factory: Stops rendering faraway rooms

[austere stirrup]

right

what I'm thinking of would ideally be client-side

that looks to be synced

for what I'm thinking of to be client-sided, it would essentially just have to cull renderers and lights for items based on proximity to similar items, though, so I guess it can't really prevent item updates

[old bison]

maybe just stop rendering the scrap on the ship with a hotkey?

[austere stirrup]

nah, I'd rather it be automatic

why make people press a button when the game can do it itself?

also, having items be invisible temporarily is ugly

[old bison]

sounds complex but very cool if it can work just like mc as you say

[austere stirrup]

unfortunately I think it would be tricky to really emulate Minecraft's item grouping

I could do that, but then it would only really work in vanilla and mods that don't touch items

so I think it would just have to be a culling option, so I suppose it could fit into this mod after all

[old bison]

would be nice to also display the quantity of the item in the stack and the total value

[austere stirrup]

but the main pain point is a bunch of dynamic lights, like the lamps, so that would probably help a ton

I think my strategy would just be to allow configuring a number of stacked items to display before they're culled

[old bison]

there's that mod that stops light from scrap producing shadows

[austere stirrup]

that's also ugly :^)

[old bison]

yeah

[austere stirrup]

the lamps' shadows look cool

if you don't tank your fps with a couple lamps, there's no reason for fps to tank with hundreds

unless you really like stacking shadow maps

[old bison]

ik you say you want it to function like vanilla but mods like shipmaid can move scrap in the ship to be exactly stacked on top of eachother, maybe that kind of mechanic could be used to group the scrap close to eachother into one pile and then stop rendering all but one

[valid sinew]

you could mass-disable mesh rendering of items on ship

I was actually meaning to create something akin to that

[austere stirrup]

there's no need to move the items if they stop rendering

it just needs to have a certain radius to merge them within

or to cull them within, I should say

[old bison]

but will it show all off their scan nodes and values?

[austere stirrup]

it should

scan nodes are separate

we're talking purely rendering changes

[old bison]

but also then if you try pick it up, you'll go for the one that's visible

and then one of the invisible ones will appear

[austere stirrup]

that's one of the specific reasons I would only make it affect renderers and lights

[old bison]

and it'll be in a slightly different position

[austere stirrup]

true

it can perhaps be an option to move them together, but really I don't see that as a problem

[old bison]

for small items all scattered around it would be quite annoying to quickly pick them up

[austere stirrup]

if it's set up to show two or three of the same item, then it won't be super visible, and a similar thing happens in Minecraft if we use that analogue

[valid sinew]

every GrabbableObject has EnableItemMeshes method

to quickly disable rendering

[austere stirrup]

does that affect lights?

[valid sinew]

I will test it right now

[austere stirrup]

but if that's calling GetComponentsInChildren then that's not viable

[old bison]

and if you were trying to sell an exact amount to meet quota wouldn't you need to keep moving the scrap away from the pile until you find the one with the right value you want to sell

[austere stirrup]

we have to cache the components or it will be prohibitively slow

[austere stirrup]

I mean, you kinda have to do that in vanilla already

[old bison]

sure but you can see em at least

[austere stirrup]

at least if you're stacking the items close enough to where they would be culled

you can see where the scan nodes are relative to each other even if they're culled

it's essentially the same thing in my eyes

[old bison]

wouldnt you still need to walk a bit to drop it far enough to not stack

[austere stirrup]

I think you're thinking of the radius being way larger than I am

the radius I'm thinking of would be like .1 meters max

[old bison]

right

[austere stirrup]

you could probably turn around and drop it and it wouldn't stack

[old bison]

fair

since its an issue in vanilla we could really do with an improvement to the node system and being able to pick up the right item you want in a pile

[austere stirrup]

obviously with that setting it would only really help with organized ships but I feel like that's generally what you'd see with long runs

[austere stirrup]

not sure how to solve that without breaking mod compatibility

could make a looting UI similar to Fallout 4 and break every mod that tries to check for an item on the floor lol

[old bison]

im surprised no one has made a mod to stack the node UIs on top of eachother so they dont overlap and have a way of scrolling through the list and selecting the one you want to pick up

[austere stirrup]

hmm, true, I suppose it could activate a UI upon scanning

[old bison]

just names and values

maybe some buttons to sort

[austere stirrup]

but the only nice UX I can think of is scrolling to select, and that seems like it could be annoying given that the game uses scroll for selecting items in the hotbar

and also prone to conflicts

[old bison]

by grouping same items or sorting by price or smth

[austere stirrup]

perhaps it could be on a separate button from scan, but buttons is not a great plan

[old bison]

yeah or maybe disable scrolling through hotbar when scrolling through the UI but idk if that would work well

or two buttons on keyboard to go up or down the list

[valid sinew]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Dreamweave/CompanyBuildingEnhancements/ does that already when selling

[austere stirrup]

right, but then if you accidentally scan multiple while you're in a bad situation and have to select a weapon?

[old bison]

yeah in the terminal right

[old bison]

i figure it would only allow use of the UI while aiming at the scrap

[valid sinew]

this would be so hard to pull off without conflicts

[old bison]

if it's an entirely independent UI i don't see it needing to conflict

[austere stirrup]

yeah for sure

[valid sinew]

but when hovering over items?

controls would mess up completely 😦

[old bison]

why

just a check if the player is looking at scrap

[valid sinew]

what if you wanted to change current slot when looking at an item to get it to different slot?

[old bison]

lmao

true

[austere stirrup]

my feeling on the subject is that it's probably something that would need to be implemented in vanilla first so that everyone is forced to adapt to it

mod compatibility is incredibly difficult when you're not messing with something that other mods are likely to mess with lol

difficult as in time consuming really

[old bison]

yeah

[valid sinew]

you would need to turn them off somehow

yet another layer of abstraction

[austere stirrup]

yeah, I kinda figured I'd have to take care of that

definitely something where I'll have to brainstorm the most efficient method

it might honestly not even be viable, since mods can spawn items whenever they want

it's not really reasonable to scan for items throughout the whole scene ever

[valid sinew]

you want to do something like this? https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/get-it-together-drops

[austere stirrup]

hmm, not really

that could be a separate option though

what I'm thinking of would just track items in the scene, run through them and pool ones that are within a certain radius and keep only an arbitrary subset of them visible

[valid sinew]

ooh, okay

what i thought was just grouping same items in the same spot and letting you pick them up one-by-one from lowest value

[austere stirrup]

thing is, for portal occlusion culling, I'll already have to start tracking every item entering and leaving the facility to be able to determine which ones have lights attached that cast shadows so that I can occlude those shadows when the player is separated from the item by a wall

[valid sinew]

cause i could get that system working fairly easy

[austere stirrup]

which would prevent flashlights shining through walls

[valid sinew]

right

that would be great

[austere stirrup]

oh you think that wouldn't be too difficult? I thought about that but I couldn't imagine a grouping system that wouldn't cause mods to be unable to find individual items correctly

maybe you thought of something I didn't

or maybe you weren't thinking of setting any items inactive/hidden

[valid sinew]

i mean - I was thinking about doing that on the ship (based on previous convo here), cause i've got the base system working already

akin to shipmaid

but I haven't thought of that in dungeon context

[austere stirrup]

to be fair, it's not nearly as important in the dungeon

you'd have to have a mod get pretty crazy for that to be an issue

[valid sinew]

true

[austere stirrup]

but I would have to imagine that on the ship it's possibly more likely that a mod might care about an item on the floor

I would assume that setting items inactive would cause them not to be counted in the ship value for example

[valid sinew]

so this would work kinda like https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/GiGaGon/ScrapMerging/ - every item would be still separate (so no conflicts there), but only one would be visible and interactable (with lowest value) and they would all be stacked in the same spot, so they wouldn't jump from place to place on interaction

[valid sinew]

yeah, there could be some problems with that

[austere stirrup]

if it's just disabling the renderer, light and grabbableobject component and not the scannode, perhaps that would work

not sure

for lights, though, I would personally prefer to try to emulate there being multiple lights by adjusting the intensity, but I wonder if that would scale in a very predictable way

[valid sinew]

i would need to test this more extensively (and build that system in the first place) - turning off items & disabling lamps/apparatice wouldn't be too difficult, but my project has hit dead end a long time ago 🥲

[valid sinew]

yeah

[austere stirrup]

then once it's all working it turns out that I've been working on the item culling and we both release at the same time and cause all items to disappear on the ship :^)

[valid sinew]

that would be an oopsie

[austere stirrup]

not sure if/when I would start trying to experiment with it though, I have some other fairly sizeable features I want to look into

like that dynamic light occluder stuff

[valid sinew]

yeah, this is very much outside of this mod's scope

i'm gonna think about doing that tho

[austere stirrup]

yeah, if I put it in CullFactory it'll be purely visual

maybe you'll beat me to it

save me the trouble lol

[valid sinew]

i'm not making any promises 💀

[austere stirrup]

with persistence anything is possible

dew it

[valid sinew]

moreover what i'm doing in my project is such horseshit it's not gonna be usable anyway lmao

[valid sinew]

ok 😓

[austere stirrup]

hey, even if it's a proof of concept it might prove the concept

[valid sinew]

that's right

[austere stirrup]

I wasn't sure if I would be able to get portal occlusion culling working, now here we are

[valid sinew]

only doing something moves anything forward

[austere stirrup]

[old bison]

i think some mods check for grabbableobject

when looking for items to do whatever their mod does

[austere stirrup]

I think that should be fine? unless they expect the grabbableobject to actually do something over time when they call a function

disabled components are still accessible

[fair oyster]

How much will this improve productivity?

[old bison]

yeah as long as they can find it its probably ok

[austere stirrup]

the item culling? it'll help with framerates in late game

[old bison]

dont think they need to use it, just look for it to know what kind of item it is

[austere stirrup]

right

[fair oyster]

Sounds good

[austere stirrup]

if that's true of the vast majority of mods, then compatibility may not be a huge problem

[fair oyster]

The hardest thing is to make it client friendly

[old bison]

can you cull scrap when not looking at it

[austere stirrup]

unity does that for us, except for lamps because they have lights and cast shadows

[old bison]

cool

[austere stirrup]

if by looking at it you mean have it visible on the screen though, that's a whole other beast

[old bison]

what other kind of looking at it is there

[austere stirrup]

culling items is on my brain's roadmap for CullFactory, but that will only do something inside the facility

[old bison]

oh you mean like looking in its direction through a wall

[austere stirrup]

Unity does frustum culling by default, meaning that if an object is within the field of vision, whether visible or occluded by a wall, it will be rendered

[old bison]

yeah alright

[austere stirrup]

if such an object casts light with shadows, though, all bets are off for what will be culled

[old bison]

so if im in the facility and look up im rendering all scrap in the ship

[austere stirrup]

quite likely, yeah

[old bison]

bruh

[valid sinew]

lmao

[odd shell]

Theyre working on portal culling tho

Si? :P

[austere stirrup]

who is working on portal culling?

portal occlusion culling is already in the mod that this thread is about

[odd shell]

Maker of this mod!

[valid sinew]

i think i'm gonna cook something in regards to this

[old bison]

i thought cullfactory only effects the rooms and not items

[austere stirrup]

at the moment, that's true

but it should be possible to cull items as long as I can track which ones are in the facility

[old bison]

cull by distance?

[austere stirrup]

no, by visibility

the portals can be used for dynamic culling as well as for determining visibility of static tiles

[valid sinew]

?

[old bison]

is that for items too

thought just for players and mobs

[valid sinew]

this is GrabbableObject property

[old bison]

ah

[austere stirrup]

not good enough, then I have to Object.FindObjectsByType<GrabbableObject>() every frame

[valid sinew]

this is pain

[austere stirrup]

that will explode the framerate

we already kind of track items entering and leaving the facility due to how depth culling was implemented before, so we're partway there, the only issue is if mods spawn items after the level is generated

[old bison]

but you'd never need to render an item at the distance between the facility and the ship anyway so couldnt that be an easy way to avoid rendering ship scrap while inside

[austere stirrup]

or if they teleport an item in/out

[valid sinew]

would not caring about mob's spawned items be a good enough solution?

since the vast majority is generated before landing

[austere stirrup]

oh mob spawned items should be easy enough to handle in a fairly decent way I would think

[old bison]

items opened out of giftboxes?

[austere stirrup]

sigh

why you gotta ruin my dreams

[old bison]

lmao

[odd shell]

If mods spawn in scrap after the game loads, does that scrap end up not being visible for everyone?

Or just not get culled?

[austere stirrup]

no, no items are culled currently

this is all theoretical

[odd shell]

Understood

[austere stirrup]

technically, I could probably track what items are where just by running a transpiler over every class in the entire game, but that would kill startup times

[odd shell]

Do enemies even spawn scrap? Or are we talking about stuff like enemies killed scrap (with the loot bodies mod or whatever it’s called)?

[austere stirrup]

Nutcrackers and their shotguns are the only vanilla one I believe

but I know there are mods that do it too

tricky part is checking for the items after they're spawned and not before, that timing could vary from mod to mod

[glass juniper]

a brute-force way is to hook into the postfix of Object.Instantiate and do type checking there but yeh

[austere stirrup]

since GrabbableObject is networked, the hook can be in the networked spawn method

but that only takes care of items when they're spawned, any mod can set isInFactory whenever they want

so it would have to be a spawn hook and a transpiler across every class which I'm not willing to do

although that does create more work for me if I don't

[glass juniper]

hm I wonder if it's possible to write a single transpiler and tell harmony to apply the patch to all classes

[austere stirrup]

well, I think you have to do it by getting every class from every assembly and calling the patch on each of them

but it's very slow

iirc, AC does that, which is why it takes forever to start up (time to get crucified for bringing that up)

[glass juniper]

ah, advancedcompany?

[austere stirrup]

yeah

I understand why they do it though, it's kind of the most performant way to allow everything in the game to be customized

[glass juniper]

oh damn i did not know that

[austere stirrup]

also technically I could just not track what's in the facility and instead track every item in the world and run culling on ones that have isInFactory == true, but I worry that that would be very slow in late game with hundreds or thousands of items in the ship

perhaps that could be mitigated by moving things between lists for inside and outside based on that flag, that way the branch predictor can actually do its job

[valid sinew]

wouldn't culling ship items based on distance from the ship be more effective?

so if you're further than X meters you just cull everything?

[austere stirrup]

that would be a solution for when you leave the ship, sure

but I wouldn't really consider that a good solution, since that doesn't solve the issue of framerates while inside the ship

what I'd really like to do is cull the entire surface while the player is inside the facility, but that's a separate thing from the issue of tens of stacked items causing bad fps

[valid sinew]

ooh, that would be far more effective, yeah

but I imagine it's difficult

[austere stirrup]

there's a few ways I can see myself implementing that, but yeah, if the scene hierarchy doesn't lend itself to that it might be quite tricky

what would be really cool is to make a portal for the ship door as well

that way I can run through everything inside the ship and cull it when it's out of view

in practice, though, that may not matter too much

especially if I implement item group culling

[valid sinew]

i was meaning to ask - does portal culling work with ship screen now?

cause using depth culling made the screen black

[austere stirrup]

both should work as of 1.7.2

[valid sinew]

you're the goat

[austere stirrup]

also, 1.8.0 dropped just a bit ago with fixes for custom interiors

although scoopy beat me to it so now I have to remove those interiors from the whitelist in the next update lol

[silver escarp]

is portal good to use now @austere stirrup

[austere stirrup]

yes

[silver escarp]

ty

[last venture]

Bunker interior doesn't seem to be playing perfectly nice with CullFactory

On PortalOcclusionCulling

The spots where things bug out seem to be pretty specific, and only momentary, but when they do it's kinda jarring

[silver escarp]

what ver of more interiors?

@last venture

[last venture]

Latest, v2.2.0

CullFactory v0.8.0

[austere stirrup]

could you send a video of the spots where that's happening?

[last venture]

I'd have to go back to that moon but I can try, Windows screen recording isn't great for 4k monitors

[austere stirrup]

also, if you can find where CullFactory says which interior is loading, you could try adding that to the list of interiors to use the fallback portals in and see if that helps

gotcha

the easiest way for me to investigate these things is to get a seed and moon for me to go to with your code

[austere stirrup]

note that the setting does apply immediately in-game, no need to restart

[last venture]

Just adjusted with LethalConfig, will try Bunker Interior again

If it still has issues will try to record but no promises

Also, on an unrelated note, putting Boombas outside the facility is a mistake

They are shockingly fast

Having to reduce the filesize rq but got a recording for ya

That should show the problem pretty extensively

This was with Fallback Portals

So I think it's an issue of the portals being too big

It functioned basically identically without fallback portals so I don't think those did much in this scenario

It's almost always on corners of vision where I presume the game thinks they're out of view

Except that one spot I showed

Not sure what's up with that, perhaps the portal is too wide?

Or thick

idk

[austere stirrup]

it being too wide should in theory make it render, not sure what's up with that if it was using the fallback

I'll look into it

[last venture]

Ty! It's nothing really gamebreaking, and I can certainly just disable it / switch to DepthCulling when in this interior

But I figured you'd wanna know

[austere stirrup]

hmm, looks like changing the fallback list at runtime broke

if you add BunkerFlow to the fallback list and restart, it should work

we should be able to release an update tonight that resolves that issue and also makes BunkerFlow use the fallback by default

[oak plover]

All these ideas about further optimising the game are great (with the scrap and such)

[austere stirrup]

thanks for letting me know, yeah! I got some fixes into the repo now, so once fumiko is able to release an update that stuff should be resolved

Scoopys Variety Mod's interiors will be removed from the fallback list to coincide with the update that fixed the portal sizes on their end, and SewerFlow will now be in the fallback list instead

the fallback list will be hard-coded with optional overrides, though, since it's difficult to migrate options properly

[craggy dove]

i recently played on the bunker and did not experience this issue, unless it was something that was introduced in 0.7.2+

[austere stirrup]

it's not, if it became an issue it's because of bunker updating

but I don't believe that happened, I think it's just only especially visible when you encounter hallways that are a bit misaligned like in the video

or any situation that makes you face a hallway from any angle but dead on really

[last venture]

SewerFlow is also Scoopy's

[austere stirrup]

ope

I meant BunkerFlow

[last venture]

Ahhh

Valid lmao

[austere stirrup]

too many flows

[last venture]

It also doesn't help that I have a 4k monitor

If something is at the edge of FOV, I'm seeing it

[austere stirrup]

lol I suppose so

[short flame]

Hey

Would yall say this mod is stable enough to use with custom interiors, radar boosters, and body cams?

[craggy dove]

custom interiors yes

depends on the interior though, some may be less stable than others

[austere stirrup]

radar boosters and body cams, yes, absolutely

and yeah, custom interiors have been spotty

I'm hoping 1.8.1 will finally make things consistent

[craggy dove]

fwiw i just played on custom interiors for about an hour and a half and didn't notice any issues

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1205741904881516595 and https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1206390977674354738

[austere stirrup]

oh, I didn't realize Dantor's was released, but I know its author saw me mention the door socket sizes before, so that makes sense

glad to know they're both working fine!

I did check PoolRooms and it seems like the door sockets are appropriately sized there too

[rapid carbon]

CullFactory [0.8.0] threw two non-fatal errors at the end of dungeon generation for a sewer (scoopy [1.2.0]); wandered around the level without any apparent issue, but dropping it here (PortalOcclusionCulling w/ SewerFlow on fallback list)

[austere stirrup]

oh yeah, I encountered that as well

it should be fixed in the next version, once we get that out

when that happens, it just means that the lighting influence won't be accounted for, so you might see some light pop-in

actually, it means the culling won't work, I lied

it doesn't create the list of all tiles when that fails

good that it doesn't cause error spam though

[plucky fulcrum]

i noticed when using this like a week ago with the spectate enemies mod the mod kinda becomes useless as you cant spectate enemies properly anymore has this been fixed ?

[glass juniper]

should be up in hot minute 👍

[glass juniper]

we've been updating the mod a lot in the past week so chances are it should be fixed

[austere stirrup]

yeah, hard to say how likely it's been fixed without knowing which version you were on, but it's worth checking again, and if you find that it still doesn't work please let us know

[regal ore]

hello what's the recommended values for
• Use fallback portals for interiors =
• Skip fallback portals for interiors =
if i have the ff mods:

[austere stirrup]

the defaults in 1.8.1 should be good for that list

I haven't tested the mental hospital yet, but I believe Dantor specifically made sure the doorways are compatible with portal occlusion culling

[fair oyster]

Are these interiors the only ones with problems in CullFactor when drawing and displaying?

[austere stirrup]

the only one with known issues is MoreInteriors, but the necessary workaround should be enabled by default

if you don't change from the default settings, it should just work ™️

that is the hope at least

[rapid carbon]

trying to update from 0.8.0 to 0.8.1 and it's expecting some specific folder structure now?

[Error  : Unity Log] DirectoryNotFoundException: Could not find a part of the path "D:\Game Launchers\Steam\steamapps\common\Lethal Company\BepInEx\plugins\fumiko-CullFactory\version".
Stack trace:
System.IO.FileStream..ctor (System.String path, System.IO.FileMode mode, System.IO.FileAccess access, System.IO.FileShare share, System.Int32 bufferSize, System.Boolean anonymous, System.IO.FileOptions options) (at <787acc3c9a4c471ba7d971300105af24>:0)
System.IO.FileStream..ctor (System.String path, System.IO.FileMode mode, System.IO.FileAccess access, System.IO.FileShare share) (at <787acc3c9a4c471ba7d971300105af24>:0)
(wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) System.IO.FileStream..ctor(string,System.IO.FileMode,System.IO.FileAccess,System.IO.FileShare)
System.IO.File.Open (System.String path, System.IO.FileMode mode, System.IO.FileAccess access, System.IO.FileShare share) (at <787acc3c9a4c471ba7d971300105af24>:0)
CullFactory.Config.MigrateSettings () (at D:/Projects/CSharp/BepInEx/LethalCompany/CullFactory/CullFactory/Config.cs:160)
CullFactory.Config.Initialize (BepInEx.Configuration.ConfigFile configFile) (at D:/Projects/CSharp/BepInEx/LethalCompany/CullFactory/CullFactory/Config.cs:137)
CullFactory.Plugin.Awake () (at D:/Projects/CSharp/BepInEx/LethalCompany/CullFactory/CullFactory/Plugin.cs:20)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
BepInEx.Bootstrap.Chainloader:Start()
UnityEngine.Rendering.HighDefinition.HDRenderPipelineAsset:OnEnable()```

is the expected location documented anywhere?

[austere stirrup]

uh oh

do you have the mod manually installed or something?

[rapid carbon]

yeah I maintain it all manually

[austere stirrup]

gotcha

[rapid carbon]

I can see what folder it's looking for, but unclear if it's a specific file or all files

figured it was easiest to just ask

[austere stirrup]

the version is a filename

but... that really shouldn't be a thing, I'll look into a better way to get the assembly path

this was kinda a last minute thing

[rapid carbon]

understandable

going to keep using 0.8.0, let me know if you need anything or want a check on my end later

good luck

[austere stirrup]

@glass juniper fyi, I'll let you take care of this, probably want to use either the currently-executing assembly location or just pull the config directory instead

[oak plover]

I'm guessing this is not an issue if you use a mod manager?

[rapid carbon]

i'd have no way to know, so i'm not sure why you're pinging me 🙃

[austere stirrup]

it shouldn't be

[oak plover]

It was more to respond to the issue in general rather than to ask you

[rapid carbon]

gotcha, please stop pinging me for threaded convos I can't help with, in any event 🥰

[silver escarp]

mr popular

[oak plover]

roger

[spring pawn]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/sfDesat/ViewExtension/ I assume this is like directly antithetical to this mod

[austere stirrup]

eh, not really

CullFactory has its own far plane override that you can use as an alternative to that, but you can also leave that disabled and use both

increasing the render distance inside the facility shouldn't really matter that much unless there's a lot of dynamic stuff that isn't currently culled

[glass juniper]

yep, i've just pushed an update to fix this, should be up on thunderstore in a minute

[fair oyster]

@austere stirrup I'm going crazy

I check the compatibility of most mods by disabling and enabling others

FPS jumps constantly from 250-150

I'm trying to understand why this could be

[austere stirrup]

couldn't tell you

I have that happen too, with very few mods

[fair oyster]

That's it

I had 30 mods now

I'm gradually adding

But then it’s like after 40-50 modo

Console turns on low performance mode

And it starts working only at 100-140 fps

[austere stirrup]

if you're gradually adding them, don't you have a narrow set of mods to check for issues?

[fair oyster]

but only client mods that change the HUD

[fair oyster]

I have them

I've already written down a list of things that could cause instability.

But the problem is different

World generation is different, seeds are different

And maybe that's the problem

In some places vanilla generates something successfully, in others it doesn’t.

This is the first guess

[austere stirrup]

you can use the seed override in CullFactory to remove that variable

[fair oyster]

By the way, he doesn't help much

The problem here is much deeper

BepInEx-BepInExPack-5.4.2100
ShaosilGaming-GeneralImprovement-1.1.9
Rune580-LethalCompany_InputUtils-0.6.3
PotatoePet-AdvancedCompany-1.1.1
Zaggy1024-OpenBodyCams-1.1.5
Owen3H-IntroTweaks-1.4.5
Evaisa-HookGenPatcher-0.0.5
Evaisa-LethalLib-0.14.2
Rolevote-The_Fiend-1.0.4
x753-Mimics-2.4.0
AmesBoys-ImmortalSnail-0.6.1
NomnomAB-RollingGiant-2.5.1
jaspercreations-Scopophobia-1.1.1
Ccode_lang-SirenHead-0.2.1
SolidStone-ShockwaveDroneEnemy-0.2.1
x753-Peepers-0.9.6
Mikusch-SkullEnemy-1.0.4
rileyzzz-Skibidi_Toilet-1.0.2
Rdos-LethalGym-1.0.1
VersusWorks-Dynamo_Flashlight-0.1.2
Jordo-NeedyCats-1.1.1
Taker-CannabisCompany-1.0.3
AinaVT-YippeeScrap-1.0.7
Pinta-PintoBoy-1.0.4
ModusInteractive-Lethal_Trading_Cards-1.0.3
SillySquad-AmogusScrap-1.1.0
Theronguard-Emergency_Dice-1.1.13
Scintesto-Scavenger_Plushie-1.0.6
Scintesto-Monster_Plushies-1.0.4
Zaggy1024-PathfindingLagFix-1.2.1
DOkge-InventoryFixPlugin-0.0.1
SillySquad-BetterTotalScrap-1.1.0
Sv_Matt-HideModList-1.0.1
Hamunii-JetpackFallFix-2.0.1
NutNutty-SellTracker-1.2.1
AlexCodesGames-AdditionalContentFramework-1.0.3
AlexCodesGames-AdditionalSuits-2.0.0
BatTeam-LethalFashion-1.0.6
tinyhoot-ShipLoot-1.0.0
EliteMasterEric-Coroner-1.6.0
NotAtomicBomb-TerminalApi-1.5.1
fivetoofive-DetailedScan-1.2.2
kRYstall9-FastSwitchPlayerViewInRadar-1.3.2
Ozone-Runtime_Netcode_Patcher-0.2.5
Sligili-More_Emotes-1.3.3
TwinDimensionalProductions-CoilHeadStare-1.0.6
Hamunii-JetpackWarning-2.2.0
akechii-DiscountAlert-2.3.0
mrov-LethalRichPresence-0.5.8
willis81808-LethalSettings-1.4.0
willis81808-HackPad-1.1.3
Evaisa-LethalThings-0.9.4
malco-Lategame_Upgrades-3.1.1
ButteryStancakes-AccurateStaminaDisplay-2.0.0
Dev1A3-RecentlyPlayedWith-1.0.3

[austere stirrup]

get it to run poorly, then keep that save backed up and set the seed override to the problematic seed and test mods

jeez

[fair oyster]

So far I have added these mods

Disabling them

Slightly improved performance

But there's nothing like that about them...

It's just items and HUD

[austere stirrup]

anything can cause problems

it's code, if it's written poorly the game runs poorly

[fair oyster]

But the console doesn't show this

And it bothers me

[austere stirrup]

doesn't have to

errors aren't the only way performance degrades

[fair oyster]

The worst thing is that I can't see it

It’s just that as soon as my game runs at 100-140 fps, then for my friends who have weak PCs, the game will automatically output a maximum of 40-60

with drawdowns

[austere stirrup]

you really just have to remove variables to try to reproduce the problem

[fair oyster]

Yes, I would also like to know which ones exactly

[austere stirrup]

find maps and seeds where it happens and see if you can get it to happen again

but I can't help you more than that advice

[fair oyster]

What is the name of the seed mod?

To constantly load the same

And check

I forgot the name

[austere stirrup]

it's built into CullFactory now

check the config

[fair oyster]

Oh great feature

[austere stirrup]

but whatever you do, make sure to empty that config option out when you're done testing, it WILL break things

[fair oyster]

Well, with cullfactor enabled I got +20-30 fps

Still, yes, these mods themselves are heavy

From 250 fps to 200-220 they underestimate

[fair oyster]

With cullfactor enabled

on the same seed

[austere stirrup]

sounds like it's time to report the issue to those mod authors 👍

[fair oyster]

Yes they rarely update them

the mods are too big, maybe they are working on something else

On Eva, I think it always supports its own library

[austere stirrup]

the only way to find out is to ask

a profiler should hopefully be able to tell them what the issue is

[fair oyster]

so many open topics

But Late_GAme works, it responds

I'll try to write there

I wrote, I'll wait for an answer...

But somehow it seems to me that they will simply ignore me

20-30 fps eats up, it's a trifle

But in good large assemblies

This has a big impact on weak PCs.

I want everything to work stably

CullFactor is a temporary saver, but people don't know much about it. We have to constantly advise, attract more testers for it

[austere stirrup]

if it works for people, word will get out, I'm not worried about making outreach

it had a rocky start, but I think it's in a state now that anyone can recommend it, at least until we break more things lol

[fair oyster]

As soon as CullFactory came out, I immediately realized that it was the future

Woke up, drank tea, went to test it

And I was in awe

[austere stirrup]

a real fan would've skipped tea

[fair oyster]

I'm cold in Russia :с

[austere stirrup]

just kidding lol

[willow garden]

Hey since you fellas play with CullFactory and I've not been up to date with development, does it and lc_office/custom interiors play nice now? 👀

[austere stirrup]

LC_Office has played nice for quite a while now

the rest, as of the last few days, yes

until someone comes out with a new interior that breaks lol

all the new ones the last few days that I'm aware of work though

[willow garden]

Brilliant, I've been wanting to add it to my pack since it launched, it's like better spray paint all over again 😅

[fair oyster]

@austere stirrup

By the way, I found the problem

Why sometimes the character was not displayed on the monitor

This is the culprit

Other players are clearly visible, but you can’t notice yourself, it doesn’t seem to be such a problem

[austere stirrup]

yeah, it doesn't surprise me

anything that implements a way to see yourself could mess with that

[fair oyster]

haphaphwhpwhap

Oh my god, I found a mod

Which just kills FPS

Without it 240
With him 150-190
On the same seed :3

Although it just adds HUD mapping for paint and TZP

Nothing special

[austere stirrup]

oh ouch

[fair oyster]

Already wrote xD

I remember when I saw this mod - I immediately started testing it and checking it

I haven't talked to Piggy for a long time, I've already made so many mods, I'm just shocked

[austere stirrup]

unity makes it very easy to make poorly performing code

this is interesting and all but this thread isn't a general performance-troubleshooting/song-sharing thread

gotta keep it at least somewhat on topic

[fair oyster]

Got it, I just got carried away

Cleaning up the trash

👉 👈

[fair oyster]

Is there any recommended config for this? @austere stirrup

[austere stirrup]

use defaults, they're there for if you have issues

[fair oyster]

OK

[alpine ibex]

does the mod description mean the player camera or bodycams from mods like headcams?

[fair oyster]

You can change it in the config

Head or Body

[alpine ibex]

no i mean like, this stops rendering faraway rooms in the players pov, right? not just through cams?

[fair oyster]

@austere stirrup we need you

My translator doesn't understand well xD

[alpine ibex]

cuz the wording's a little confusing for me on the description (it refers to cameras rather than povs or views)

[glass juniper]

yeah it also culls in the players' pov

we use "cameras" since that's the way that monitors/radars and the players see things, so that all the cameras that we can find all get the benefit

[alpine ibex]

ah that's awesome then, thanks!

will def help w 5 second long freezes

[glass juniper]

np!

cullfactory only stops rooms from rendering so if the 5 second long freezes aren't frequent, chances are there might be a mod or two causing that to happen, so that might require testing so you can disable the cause of the problem

if it's at the start of the landing then it might be the interior getting generated, which usually takes a bit to load and that can freeze the game for a while

[willow garden]

Just to help give some advice here, sticking LC onto an SSD really helps with performance, Skinwalkers used to give massive stuttering on a HDD but moving the game location to an SSD made it playable. Hoping this helps!

[alpine ibex]

sick sick! im not the one who freezes so i'll tell my buddy about this

[alpine ibex]

yeah they're decently frequent

it happens everywhere for him; inside, outside, at the company, ship, etc

[willow garden]

Quick question if you don't mind, are you using Skinwalkers in your current pack? 👀

[alpine ibex]

we used to, but i took it out cuz we weren't getting any cool interactions out of it

currently we're using a semi-substitute in mirage (it does a lot more than just copy voices but yeah)

but i only have it set so masked characters mimic voices

also coil heads

[willow garden]

Yeah I was going to mention Mirage as it supersedes skinwalkers in both performance and quality, i'm trying to think what else could cause the massive lag spikes though. definitely a better IO speed could help, does your friend clean his hard drive? Like is his C: drive >10% free space?

[alpine ibex]

i don't know tbh, i could ask him though

[fair oyster]

On version 3.0.0 Skinwalkers works in RAM, if I'm not mistaken

[alpine ibex]

if you want i can send you the pack we're using currently if you wanna look into it

[fair oyster]

But there is no information from them

I'm waiting for a better version of Skinwalkers

[willow garden]

It does, however it also brings a mysterious crashing issue, I was troubleshooting with Rug but he said it wasn't worth the time

Use mirage, it's skinwalkers 2.0

[fair oyster]

mirage...

Is this similar to Skinwalkers?

He is better?

[willow garden]

Yep, think Skinwalkers but works better and has more features, very configurable

Here's the thread so this poor thread doesn't get flooded 😅 https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1200695291972685926

[hoary light]

Does this help performance outside the dungeon too? Been looking for performance mods since VR has been rough to use

[regal ore]

hello @fair oyster, do you have a list of the mods that you found out reduces fps relevantly?

[fair oyster]

LG and LT do not reduce performance too much, but there is something in it...
I’m not sure about the API, I thought it was simple, but it’s not true

[regal ore]

thanks!

[odd shell]

What in lethal Things reduces fps?

[fair oyster]

I don't know

The code itself

Or is he just interacting with something?

With generation - when it creates teleport traps

many options

[odd shell]

Maybe at the start of the game it could make some lag yeah

[fair oyster]

I said it's a little heavy

But it is not exactly

[fair oyster]

And I don’t check at the beginning

And on one seed for 5 minutes

That's why things like this

[odd shell]

loading into the seed for 5 minutes?

Kinda weird

[fair oyster]

No

I load quickly

I run around the map and inside the complex

Checking some things

And I keep an eye on the load

It is hard to explain

[alpine ibex]

TME seems to reduce frames when i go on 3rd person but otherwise it works quite well

but yeah..idk abt what's going on with lethalthings but it causes an immense amount of fps drops inside the ship and in some exteriors

[cerulean gate]

is this caused by this mod?

[fair oyster]

I don't even look at myself from the outside

Still dropping FPS

[cerulean gate]

not a big deal but just reporting

[odd shell]

Maybe something to do with scrap optimisation? (Unoptimised scrap could cause fps drops in ship (ESPECIALLY when combined with a helmet cameras mod), and if you noticed lower fps on certain moons that might be because the scrap spawned when you landed)

Check to see if the lag still happens without some of the scrap

.
Personally, I think cookie fumo ended up lagging my game a lot, but I’m really not sure atm

[alpine ibex]

no yeah i ended up removing lethal things a while ago :P

we were mostly using it for boomba and the decorations since we didn't like the new things you could buy off the ship store

[odd shell]

Shame, I like boombas and teleporter traps

[alpine ibex]

yeahh i miss those

[odd shell]

I really do think it’s the scrap to be honest. I’m not sure what else it could be

I’m gonna try once I get home

[alpine ibex]

for me it was the scrap + the item shop stuff

cuz i remember when i disabled those on the config the fps went up a ton

[odd shell]

Ok that’s EXTREMELY good to know

Thank you so much

[drifting axle]

does anyone know if CullFactory works with Office yet?

[alpine ibex]

no problem goat

still got a bunch of fps lag at the company without the items in the shop btw, still don't know what that was about

[river tundra]

afaik it does now

[drifting axle]

Nice

[austere stirrup]

I haven't heard anyone mention issues on it since 0.7.0 released

or probably 0.7.1 actually, I think 0.7.0 was broken

[spring pawn]

Does surface distance culling require a restart to take effect? I'm trying to mess with the values with LethalConfig with a very large open moon exterior and it doesn't seem to change anything 🤔

[austere stirrup]

currently it's set up in such a way that it only updates when you enter/leave the facility

should be easy to make it update upon the setting changing, though

[river tundra]

How’s CullFactory with Dantor’s Mental Hospital and PoolRooms?

[austere stirrup]

good, if my testing was any indication

[river tundra]

Sweet

[austere stirrup]

performance on Dantor's won't be stellar, since the portals are quite large, but it'll work and it should cull plenty still

[river tundra]

Also does cullfactory remove the lag caused by rendering the backrooms mod if it’s being used

[austere stirrup]

probably not

backrooms use their own way of generating the halls, so CullFactory does nothing to it

[river tundra]

Phooey, wasn’t sure if it worked on direction or sight

Ohhh

[austere stirrup]

perhaps someday they'll switch to LLL and make it generate using DunGen though, then it'll work

[river tundra]

If the mod isn’t abandoned

afaik it is

[austere stirrup]

ah yeah could be

maybe someone will make an alternative then

[spring pawn]

worked perfectly with entering / leaving, thanks!

[austere stirrup]

is it open source? I think it wasn't last I looked

[river tundra]

Mod hasn’t been updated in two and a half months and the creator hasn’t posted here in a month

Uhh I’ll check

The source is available but nothing stating it’s open source

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Backrooms/Backrooms/

[austere stirrup]

oh yeah, the "Source" tab on Thunderstore is a decompilation

anyways, I'm guessing that if Backrooms causes lag, it's probably doing something wrong other than just putting geometry in the world

so one would hope that if it's abandoned someone will remake it

[river tundra]

I’ve heard it’s a source of lag

[austere stirrup]

looking through the code, I don't see anything too suspicious, but I'm sure a profiler would give a better idea of the issue

really every modder should set up deep profiling and check if their mod is causing issues, but even I'm bad about that lol

I gotta do a pass on all of my mods soon

usually bad framerates are a CPU-side issue

[austere stirrup]

just pushed a commit to make that work, it should be in whatever the next update may be

[spring pawn]

swank, thanks!

[sturdy spear]

off topic question but how do you set a deep profile? google keeps recommending to me use unity's tools but that doesn't seem possible for an already existing .exe

[austere stirrup]

it is possible actually, hold on

https://github.com/dnSpy/dnSpy/wiki/Debugging-Unity-Games#turning-a-release-build-into-a-debug-build

it takes a bit of setup, but it works

you'll have to launch the game with the -deepprofiling flag, then connect to it from the Unity editor

[sturdy spear]

huh, sounds relatively easy

thanks

[austere stirrup]

(note that it's not 32-bit, you'll want the x64 binaries)

it also doesn't require an asset-ripped Unity project, as far as I know, you just have to open the profiler however you can

so an empty project probably works

[sturdy spear]

got it chief thanks

[austere stirrup]

yeah, hope it helps you out!

[glass juniper]

just released an update that fixes changing far plane distances in-game 👍

[stable mountain]

Heyo! I have been directed here to let you know of a possible bug/compatibility issue with MoreInteriors. 😄

[glass juniper]

ah gotcha

for the time being you can add the dungeon generator for that interior into the fallback list in the config of cullfactory

you can check the plugin logs in the terminal for more info

[pliant sundial]

Oh that's cool

Thanks for letting me know about fallback list.

[stable mountain]

Heey my theory was correct! WOOT! It was the distance, cull factory does stop rendering faraway rooms. 😛

Neeto.

[drifting axle]

Seems like there's an issue with Castle from Scoopy's Variety Mod as well

This was tested with the latest version of EQM

On my testing I'm actually not able to find the error with just EQM, so I'll ask if they had other mods on

[austere stirrup]

while you're here, I had meant to reach out, but there's a specific fix that allows you to avoid needing to be on that fallback list, the door socket sizes need to be set up to encompass the possible visibility into the neighboring tiles if that makes sense

although I'm curious, is that interior in the video the bunker interior? that was supposed to be on the list already

I wonder if I made some oversight in the fallback portal size calculation

that room and the section that it's culling looks very odd to me though

[pliant sundial]

Is that a thing I didn't know?
We have ours set up so they are 5x5 wide doorways cause of the how wide they are
Will take a look

[austere stirrup]

well, it's a specific requirement of CullFactory, although currently it's not entirely efficient with how some of the modded interiors have been designed

I'm hoping that Batby can give us a method to get the size of a doorway attached to each tile type so that I can take the minimum of the doorways on either side of a connection, then we will have the most efficient possible portal occlusion culling hopefully

[austere stirrup]

what does this mean? that you were using depth culling with too low a range?

[stable mountain]

No my statement has caused confusion. Other then the change you have reccomended. My config is set to default settings.

[austere stirrup]

and I assume you're on the latest version of CullFactory? the issue may actually still be present if so

unless something was wrong with our default list

if you happen to have your log saved from the session where that happened, I could say for sure, actually

[stable mountain]

sadly I do not but I will keep playing to try and recreate the issue.

[austere stirrup]

@pliant sundial the thing I wonder is whether that doorway's center point is perhaps offset from the actual horizontal center of that side of the tile bounds, that would cause the calculation of the fallback portal bounds to be incorrect

[stable mountain]

I went through probably 6-8 rooms in a line and then hit this boundary where the visuals were culled. I was very far from the front door.

It also happened in the middle of the stairway room.

[pliant sundial]

yes for the stairs it is since it is like an L shape

[austere stirrup]

this is basically what I mean visually

ideally, that doorway should be perfectly aligned to the brown line at the center of the edge of the tile bounds

[austere stirrup]

the green rectangles are the doors?

[pliant sundial]

yes

[austere stirrup]

hmmmm

[pliant sundial]

the stairs is only tile set up this way

[austere stirrup]

so they would have been around here?

that shouldn't be an issue because I would expect that to consider the camera to be inside the tile and just render it always

actually, I guess it's on the right side instead, but it should still be considered inside

[pliant sundial]

so the area that is blocked is a blocker that dungen can remove or add in depending on if it connects it is called a scene blocker

the library tile in the mansion does it like this too but not as extended out

[austere stirrup]

which part is blocked? can you point it out?

do you mean the doorways?

@stable mountain just found the tile in question, and I don't seem able to reproduce the issue, was your CullFactory up to date?

the patch notes don't mention it, but you need to be on 1.8.1 or newer or you will have issues on Bunker

[pliant sundial]

was just decribing how the Generation work

is all

[austere stirrup]

ah, so the blocker you're talking about is a wall attached at the doorway

[pliant sundial]

i also have my own LODs for each tile and they adjust automatic for the distance after generation

[austere stirrup]

yeah, that fits my idea of how it works

[pliant sundial]

ye

[austere stirrup]

since the video was taken while inside the tile rather than standing outside one of the doorways like I thought it might be, I'm unsure what the issue might have been

[stable mountain]

yes it was

[austere stirrup]

really what I need is a map seed to look at the exact generation that caused this

it'll appear in the logs if it happens again

[stable mountain]

let me see if I have it

[pliant sundial]

issue i can think of is the difference in how mine is culled with LODs and Cull factory with the Occulion culling camera plane distance

[austere stirrup]

yeah, I do wonder if it's your LOD setup

really, I would honestly not have the tiles pop out of existence based on LOD, that seems like it would be prone to issues given that the tiles are so large

[pliant sundial]

ye i have adjusted it so it works for most distance plus the dark inside hides missing tile renders

[austere stirrup]

yeah

[stable mountain]

I do not have the seed. But I do have more video.

[pliant sundial]

also doors you can't always see thur the other side since doors spawn in

[austere stirrup]

if the LOD is determined by the distance to the center of the tile, though, it might be a bit screwy

how are you determining what LOD scaling to use?

I assume it's not using visibility checks

[pliant sundial]

i adjust manually

[austere stirrup]

oh I thought you said you were setting it dynamically based on the size of the interior or something

[pliant sundial]

i am doing test before uploading to make sure the size is correct

also it is per tile not overall

so each tile is set distance after generation

so the same hallway can still be rendered in on view an culled in another view

[austere stirrup]

per tile is what I expected based on what I saw when you demonstrated it in-editor

[stable mountain]

I dont know if this will help. This is me entering the door

[austere stirrup]

definitely doesn't hurt to have that context, but unfortunately it doesn't help me repro :(

[pliant sundial]

ok looks like i need to adjust stairs view maybe

since the center point is at the bottom of the stairs

where the culling is targeting

[stable mountain]

0.8.3

[austere stirrup]

I assume that the LOD group doesn't cull based on the view frustum but rather only distance?

[pliant sundial]

yes

[austere stirrup]

hmm

unless the value changes at runtime I wouldn't think that would be the issue

I should be seeing the same issue if the LOD distance is constant

[pliant sundial]

ye i will test

[stable mountain]

I have increased my video reecording length so I should be able to catch the seed next time. How do I make sure I get the log you need. Do I have a time limit before the log is deleted/can it overwrite itself? How many logs are saved?

[pliant sundial]

log is override each time game is launched and closed

[austere stirrup]

this will get you the last entry, though discord may not let you post it so you would have to upload it somewhere

the log file is in your profile folder, so if you go to Locations -> Browse profile folder -> BepInEx, there'll be a file called LogOutput.log that is the log for the last launch of the game

[pliant sundial]

@stable mountain Ok I might have been wrong about camera view and LOD

The LOD is based off the position of camera
not the directions of it
So while in tile it should render

So tested without cull factory it seems to work fine.
but with cull factory I need to test maybe it is like edge of camera need to see where it is culling the stair tile to test with in game stuff

[austere stirrup]

CullFactory doesn't cull based off the tile at all by default, it's based on what is visible through doorways

here's a simplified explanation of what it does:

1. Find the tile the player is in, make it visible
2. For every door in view of the camera:
3. Make the tile the door leads to visible
4. Check if any doorways are visible to the camera through previous doors
5. Make the tile those doorways lead to visible
6. Recurse to step 4

[pliant sundial]

The cull factory is based off camera what is directly in view

While LOD is based off where camera position is closet to the LOD group

[austere stirrup]

essentially, yeah

but the weird thing here is, since the camera was within the stair tile, it should have been caught in step 1

I don't know why it would have been culled

unless the bounds of the stair tile are incorrect, but your editor screenshot seemed to show those bounds and they looked correct

[pliant sundial]

Ye that is what I am wondering too

[austere stirrup]

if we can get a seed where this happens, I can attempt to reproduce it and figure out why it was doing that

[last venture]

To add to this, this seems new, as I have video of me wandering around the Bunker and that room extensively and never saw that

[austere stirrup]

it didn't happen for me either

I still kinda wonder if it was something weird with the LOD group

[last venture]

Zaggy may remember that from my bug report video showing the odd doorway clipping

This room was fine

[pliant sundial]

Yeah I could check no worries I am sure i can narrow down issue 👍

[austere stirrup]

I hope so, good luck

intermittent issues like this are a pain

[pliant sundial]

Lucky it is not game breaking lol just rendering

If it is problem can just have the people temporarily put bunker on the exclusion list for cull factory config override and work on fix

It will still be good performance with out cull factory occlusion since LOD still there

Had people report better frames with just that

[austere stirrup]

it's already in the list internally, that's the thing

[pliant sundial]

But would be cool if we can get lethal to have 120 fps

Oh I didn't know that

Thanks for letting me know

[austere stirrup]

point is that it doesn't solve this issue

yeah

[pliant sundial]

Yeah for sure

[austere stirrup]

it's a very odd issue though, I have no idea what could cause it other than messed up tile bounds

[pliant sundial]

Yeah me neither

[austere stirrup]

that kind of thing used to happen on the entry point for Sewer

[pliant sundial]

Oh Scoopy had that issue

[austere stirrup]

still can technically, but you have to try harder to get it to happen

the entry room's bounds don't actually block off the whole room, so you can have a room clip into it and get yourself trapped if you walk the wrong way

and there's no way to tell that it's happened before it does so you can just get screwed over

[pliant sundial]

Oh weird

[vestal vale]

@austere stirrup how be the upcomin update to fix the disappearing interiors lmao, been a while since ive been here

[austere stirrup]

well, from my testing it's all working fine, there's just the recent issue that SourceShard mentioned above

as of 1.8.1 it should have all been good

unless new interiors dropped

which if they do, please feel free to ping me and link them

the ones I've tested are:

• Scoopys (Castle, Sewer)
• Scarlet Devil Mansion
• MoreInteriors (Bunker)
• SCPFoundationDungeon
• Dantor's Mental Hospital
• Minecraft Stronghold
• PoolRooms
  All worked, though my testing was brief

[last venture]

Mhm, I can confirm similar experiences for all but Dantor's and Stronghold, which I haven't tested

[drifting axle]

have multiple people had issues with the latest Bunker and CullFactory, or is it just one person?

[austere stirrup]

as far as I know, one person in one particular spot in one particular seed

it remains to be seen how common that issue actually is, and whether it's an issue with CullFactory even

[drifting axle]

ah, gotcha

[pliant sundial]

Yeah I haven't been able to recreate culling issue with problem either

[vestal vale]

could try it with ooblterra

since i THINK that also has an interior?

[austere stirrup]

oh interesting

I've heard mention of that but I thought it was just a moon

[vestal vale]

i believe you needa download it with github, not sure since im just waitin for the 1.0 release

[austere stirrup]

I see

[vestal vale]

dont quote me on it lol

[austere stirrup]

I'll see if I can look into that later

[fair oyster]

I have a question @austere stirrup

Mod for BackRooms

I noticed that CullFactory doesn't hide him at all, he sits and hangs out

Doesn't it give any load?

[austere stirrup]

probably, but there's not much I can do about that

how were you able to tell that it's not culled?

I hope nothing was visibly popping

[fair oyster]

I just used a bug with the reactor

And when I fell down

I saw that the room was constantly rendered

And is waiting for me

Although it was very high

Old screenshot

But about the same, only I was x2 higher

I just installed a patch on this mod and now you can only get there with critical damage, there’s a small chance, but it’s there

And somehow disable the rendering of these rooms - to increase performance, it would be good

Players love this mod, but the background load is not very...

[austere stirrup]

honestly, I'm not really inclined to add a feature that prevents it from rendering in the background

the mod isn't maintained afaik, and it should really be redesigned to use DunGen imo

once it does use DunGen, the culling will work automatically, at least once I make sure CullFactory knows how to handle multiple dungeon flows at once

as it is, there's no reasonable way to set up proper occlusion culling for the Backrooms area

my opinion is that in its current state, the Backrooms mod should handle culling the renderers and lights itself, since it alone really knows whether a player is inside there

[fair oyster]

I agree with this

But at the moment there are no analogues of this mod...

And I'm very upset

[austere stirrup]

well, I think you may have a better chance of getting what you want by asking the person making the patch for the Backrooms mod

[pliant sundial]

We were working on our own version of backrooms but stopped since we saw someone else was making one we still have the project files
Could be a thing to add for additional flow for More Interiors

And have its own config

It was in addition to the bunker as a side one

[fair oyster]

Do you plan to improve further?

I would test this project

[pliant sundial]

I will ask my friend who is the one that made the tile set but finishing up other maintenance tile set

[river tundra]

👀

[stable mountain]

With everything up to date I had the issue happen again. I will post video, seed and mod list if it helps. I do not have log though unfortunately.

Unable to post now will post later.

[austere stirrup]

those three definitely should help (I hope)

[inland mortar]

pitching in, i tested Sewer, Bunker, Castle and SCP Foundation in my pack and experienced no issue across 3 seeds each

Sewer was on March/Vow, Bunker on Assurance/Offense, Castle on E Gypt/Atlas Abyss, SCP Foundation on Titan

[fair oyster]

Is there any information from Dantors_Mental_Hospital and CullFactor?

It’s just that Dantors_Mental_Hospital itself is not optimized

Either CullFactor does not understand what needs to be rendered and what to hide...

[spice jackal]

works fine for me

[fair oyster]

Dantors_Mental_Hospital?

[spice jackal]

yes

[fair oyster]

How many mods are in your build?

[spice jackal]

145

[craggy dove]

hospital is unoptimized atm, someone already told you that in the other thread

[fair oyster]

yes I remember

I just always want to think that the reason is something else...

[fair oyster]

163 :3

[spice jackal]

:3

[fair oyster]

And this is without costumes, sounds and cosmetics

[spice jackal]

oh boy!

[fair oyster]

All mods are not based on mechanics, that’s why I’m checking...

[austere stirrup]

even if it did, it can only do so much

there is an improvement to make in the portals to get it to be more efficient, but that requires an LLL API that doesn't exist yet

but even when that's available, I only expect that to help by a little

it's always possible to make it render enough that it drops the frame rate

[fair oyster]

I think I already talked about this.
The more the assembly consumes RAM (for example, installing most of the popular moons from LLL and LE), the FPS drops significantly. What could be the reason? @austere stirrup (Just interested in your guesses)

[austere stirrup]

could be any number of things

and I honestly don't know too much about the behavior of RAM under pressure

[fair oyster]

Well, I have 2 assemblies, one with popular moons - the other not

And the difference is such that minus 1/4 of the total FPS

[austere stirrup]

it could just be loaded assets that are perhaps unrelated to the framerate drop, or it could be that things are allocating large pieces of data in the code that they depend on and causing a lot of cache eviction

I would tend to doubt that it's related to RAM usage by the game

[fair oyster]

Most likely it's

[austere stirrup]

I don't know if anyone's done it already, but if not, I guess I should probably write a guide to set up profiling in the Unity editor...

fumiko also has used dotTrace, but that's non-free unfortunately

I'm betting that a lot of mods that cause performance problems have pretty easy solutions that a profiler would point straight to

[fair oyster]

This would be useful to everyone who does

It's a pity that little is known about this...

[stable mountain]

Had a lockup while landing on Kast. All players froze and had to relaunch.
Edit: Save was also corrupted.

[stable mountain]

018dcdd3-0189-f0fd-89b4-9db48ffad9a5

[fair oyster]

What does CullFactor have to do with it? 😯

[stable mountain]

I have no idea other then the error log showed it did

[stable mountain]

I would love to know the solution if you find out.

[austere stirrup]

there's a solution I or fumiko can hopefully put together soon that will at least prevent this from causing the screen freeze

or two, actually

the likely cause is that some mod deleted an object attached to the interior generation

ideally no mods would do that, they should really deactivate objects instead, but there's really no reasonable way to prevent it

[austere stirrup]

@glass juniper the (three actually) solutions we could try are:

• Just brute force null check every renderer and light in the interior to prevent errors, but we'll need to profile this to see if it impacts performance significantly. If it does, perhaps we could use a transpiler to make this optional at runtime with no perf impact.
• Move portal occlusion culling into LateUpdate(), taking a union of all cameras' visibility. This also needs profiling, may be faster than the current approach tbh. It would prevent errors in the culling from causing the camera freeze, so that the game doesn't have to be forcibly exited, but obviously it would still error spam and cull incorrectly.
• Add a diagnostic mode similar to the feature I added in OpenBodyCams to optionally track object destruction and check if those objects or their children are within the tiles. This would be useful for determining the mod conflict.

Pinging you here in case you can beat me to this, since I'm in the middle of a few other things that I don't see myself finishing too soon

[hollow timber]

I would like to report an issue even tho I'm not sure if there's a way to fix it because of how the mod works, but I noticed that the turret's laser can be seen through walls when using CullFactory.

It is especially visible with the mod: "TurretAlwaysLaser" (https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/tolstj/TurretAlwaysLaser/)

Would there be some kind of workaround or way to have the laser blocked by walls even if they're not rendered to the client somehow?

[austere stirrup]

for the moment, the only "solution" is to change the culling mode

I'm busy with another big performance project at the moment, so I don't have time to write the code we need to track all the dynamic lights inside the facility, but if I do, I believe the turrets' lasers should be covered by that

basically, at the moment, portal occlusion culling only knows of static lights in the scene, so it can only make walls visible that are supposed to block those static lights. however, since that doesn't include dynamic lights like flashlights and the lamp item, when those are in adjacent culled rooms, the walls that would block them are culled and they shine through the one-sided mesh of your current tile

[hollow timber]

Ah I see, that makes sense...

But I think my other issue was that when I changed the culling mode, the cams from the "OpenBodyCams" mod weren't working properly since it wasn't rendering the walls from someone else's POV.

Unless this has been fixed somehow I would be trading the "dynamic light" issue with the "BodyCams' " one 🫤

[austere stirrup]

unless you were on version 1.8.1+, I would expect that not to be the case with portal occlusion culling

and I believe depth culling also in that version, but I'm not entirely sure

[hollow timber]

Got it, I'll give it a try right now then to check!

[hollow timber]

Just to be sure, you mean to say that I have to replace this .cfg setting from the default "PortalOcclusionCulling" by "DepthCulling"?

[austere stirrup]

yep

note that you may be able to see the culling happen visibly with that setting, but with a reasonable tile depth it shouldn't let lights shine through and might not be visibly popping

[hollow timber]

Got it, thanks! I'll give it a few playtests right away then!

[craggy dove]

another big performance project? 😳

[austere stirrup]

an update for PathfindingLagFix

currently in the process of determining its viability so not sure if it's going to actually be released

[craggy dove]

neat, hope that goes well for you

[austere stirrup]

it's intended to allow the heavy pathfinding calculations that the AI do at regular intervals not to affect the frame rate as much, but currently I still seem to be causing a 1ms hit per frame while those are running

ideally it would have close to no effect on the frame rate, but

it's tricky, I gotta profile and find out what's affecting it the most, it's a very time consuming process

also unsure if it's stable in the version of unity that zeekers used

we shall see

[stable mountain]

Is there a way for you to log an easy to understand warning when a mod does this? It would help greatly for testing and for targeting problems related to stability. I would be extremely grateful!

[austere stirrup]

yeah, we can add an option for that like in OpenBodyCams if we don't find the other options to be viable based on their effect on performance

that will be an opt-in thing, though, because the only way (that I know of) to track that is to check for that every single time something in the game is destroyed, and the dungeons can contain a lot of objects we would have to check against

it could cause inconsistent frame times to do that

[stable mountain]

Hmm what I meant more so is that even if you create a fix for the problem, this may be a problem in the future with other mods. So if you created a fix and also a warning system it would help diagnose other issues that may arise.

[austere stirrup]

right

if whatever we choose isn't a blanket fix that will definitely be a priority

but again, it can't be on by default unfortunately

[stable mountain]

Hey that is all good. That is what test settings are for.
Thank you again for your assistance. I wish you error free testing on pathfinding fix. 😄

[austere stirrup]

lol thanks, I'm sure it won't be unfortunately

multithreading is a fun thing and manual memory management makes it even more fun

the good thing is that I'm very persistent

[stable mountain]

This is the only way I succeed.

[ripe crane]

wym by this

[austere stirrup]

oh I just meant the PathfindingLagFix v2 thing

(I'll reply to your DM and explain stuff about it in a bit, it'll take a while to type I think)

[ripe crane]

oh in that message specifically i was curious what you meant by tracking all the dynamicl ights inside the facility

[austere stirrup]

oh, that, I see

well, I need to be able to determine where all the lights are in the interior that aren't part of the interior itself

might be very tricky to get that working, though, it's already been a bit of a pain to do stuff like that in OpenBodyCams and it'll be less visible when something goes wrong in the culling

obviously I could just find all Light components in the scene, but that would be disgustingly slow

fumiko used to have a couple patches that tracked what items were inside to determine where radar boosters are, I would need something similar

I could potentially make it automatic by injecting into every class in the game and checking when fields are set saying that something is inside or outside the facility, but I'm not a huge fan of that idea since it's probably not terribly fast to run a transpiler over so much code

might be the best option for compat though unfortunately

[ripe crane]

Honestly a FindObjectsOfType<Light> before and after dungeon generation isn’t as big of a sin as you might think but if you wanna be super massive big brain you might actually be able to patch Light’s OnEnable class right before dungeon generate, have it add itself to a list via a singleton then unpatch afterwards (or just build in a bool check for the entire game ig its probably not that much of an added hit

[austere stirrup]

oh we're already doing GetComponentsInChildren<Light> for tile contents

I'm taking about items you can bring into and out of the interior

if you mean doing that to catch all the lights that could enter, that would be the place to start yeah

but I still have to track things that are bought or otherwise spawned in unforseen ways by mods

[ripe crane]

oh for that i guess we’d go back to implementing that like couple dozen patches to make the inside/outside y position check more dynamic then just compare y pos on any light component gameobjects?

wait no

Bigger brain

[austere stirrup]

hmm? I'm not referring to an issue with lll

y check shouldn't be necessary in CullFactory since other mods ought to set the flags correctly or other things won't work right

[ripe crane]

You could totally get away with a on trigger enter box around the entire dungeon with no collisons valid except for all light components

[austere stirrup]

oh that's an idea

that certainly sounds nicer than an all-encompassing patch

I haven't messed with collision much at all but I would imagine I can just scale a cube around the union of all tiles' AABBs and then change some things with the collider?

or are those not even colliders, I actually don't know

[ripe crane]

more or less yeah

[stable mountain]

I love reading this and having only a coloring book level of understanding. Big brain people using big words.

[dusky condor]

currently dies with lc_office (only cullfactory and lc_office used (with dependencies))

~~ill also @glass juniper ~~

[odd shell]

yeah, were trying to figure this out, erm, is there a way to keep cull factory from working on certain interiors?

actually dont answer that, i havent tried everything yet :P

[dusky condor]

checking if it does the same to poolrooms

[glass juniper]

currently cullfactory assumes all lights and doors in a room will always persist and doesn't get destroyed so if that does happen it throws errors

[dusky condor]

you are unable to enter

[odd shell]

that shouldnt happen upon just walking into the interior though, no?

[dusky condor]

as expected it works

it seems to be an issue with 1.1.17 of office

since it worked fine today with .16

[austere stirrup]

hmm, interesting

I wonder what changed

[dusky condor]

seemingly just this

[austere stirrup]

yeah, nothing there immediately stands out to me as a reason for something in the dungeon to be destroyed

I can't look into it for a while though

we probably should have a blacklist for interiors that shouldn't activate culling though

we'll need it for Hadal

[odd shell]

that would be useful! Tho why would hadal cause issues?

[austere stirrup]

because you can see through the walls

there's nothing to cull

[odd shell]

oh wow :P that sounds awesome, and yeah i see

direction-based culling isn't something this mod can do yet though, right?

[austere stirrup]

what does direction-based culling mean?

you mean camera frustum culling?

[odd shell]

As in culling everything off-screen, sorry, dont know terminology too well

[vast hedge]

only stuff in your view

[austere stirrup]

Unity does that automatically

[vast hedge]

yeah that's the proper term

[odd shell]

this sounds closer to what I meant yes

[dusky condor]

here is a video if its any help

[austere stirrup]

Unity does frustum culling automatically better than any mod script could

[dusky condor]

(with just cull factory and office)

[odd shell]

wooow I see, that's pretty useful

So this mod tries to cull the stuff behind walls that are front of you

[austere stirrup]

portal occlusion culling does, yes

[austere stirrup]

yeah, that looks about like what I would expect unfortunately

I might be able to sneak a look at it tomorrow morning but probably won't be able to fix it

maybe I can shoot Piggy a message about whatever's causing it though

although obviously fumiko could beat me to it too

[odd shell]

#1196943144009351258 message

looks like this might be the reason

#1196943144009351258 message

[austere stirrup]

you mean the fix for that caused the issue?

it's possible

[glass juniper]

a hacky fix i can do right now is to exclude tiles from culling operations once we find a null reference during visibility checks

[austere stirrup]

should be fine to just add a null check for each renderer tbh, but we may want to print a warning once so that people can be aware it's happening and have an avenue to remove the check later if it turns out to be a perf bottleneck

[glass juniper]

yeah, that's probably a use case for the whitelist too

null checks are skipped if a dungeon generator is considered safe

but we'll visit that later, i'll see if i can get the null check working first

[sturdy spear]

@austere stirrup someone said earlier that cullfactory assumes all lights and doors in a room don't get destroyed. Does that mean the door script shouldn't be destroyed or not even the door model can be destroyed?

[austere stirrup]

script as in a component? as long as it's not a Renderer or Light being destroyed it's fine

I would tend to think that things that are being destroyed should be deactivated instead, but I don't know if there may be reasons for using Destroy() instead

[sturdy spear]

Ahh so if I just deactivate the renderer gameobject, nothing will break with CF?

[austere stirrup]

yeah, that should be the least problematic

Renderer.enabled is no biggie either, but Light.enabled will get screwed with by CullFactory (vanilla just uses SetActive() for those)

by using those fields I'm hoping to avoid having to save/restore states

doing that in OpenBodyCams was a bit of a pain

[sturdy spear]

Understandable understandable. For what i will be doing, I probably would have destroyed the renderer

Now, I will just not

[austere stirrup]

sounds good

I wish it wasn't tricky to make it Just Work ™️ but it's (presumably, I haven't measured this yet) faster if we assume nothing will change

null checks might be cheap enough for it not to matter though, we'll have to see

it's another call through to native in a hot loop though so I'm wondering

[sturdy spear]

Worst case, give me a public function to remove renderers from whatever collection you are storing them in

Not necessary at all yet though

[austere stirrup]

so you forsee it being an issue disabling instead of destroying? although an API like that doesn't sound terrible, it would probably have to iterate over every renderer in every tile in our cache when you call it which could be kinda slow

[sturdy spear]

Oh I will be disabling them not destroying then. Sorry for the confusion

[austere stirrup]

each tile can have renderers from another tile referenced in it so there's not an easy way to know what collections a renderer willb e in

right, but you said you would like an API

I'm not opposed to it, but abuse of such an API could cause some pretty ugly frame times

[sturdy spear]

Oh if it's too much work then it's not necessary. It was the worst case. However, I would call it once so I don't see it causing frame drops

[austere stirrup]

right, that's why I wouldn't be too opposed

at least given that people would have to create a soft dependency to do that I'm sure it wouldn't be common

not sure if it's worth the effort without a good reason though

[sturdy spear]

Well you already argued the obvious fact that disabling the gameobject is much easier for everyone involved so ya, its probably not worth the effort now

But it looks like my mod won't break with yours. That's what I wanted to make sure of 👍

[austere stirrup]

yeah, sounds good

hoping that can remain the case for other custom interiors but it does feel a little fragile at the moment

the camera callbacks are useful but also a footgun since they can freeze the game visually

[glass juniper]

just tested on the latest lcoffice version with null checks in place, it does work

i'll go ahead and test out the performance difference before and after this change now

[glass juniper]

With null checks: 251.8254ms / 10000 camera renders
Without null checks: 247.6951ms / 10000 camera renders
Difference: -1.67%

Setup:

• Moon: Titan
• Seed: 1
• Dungeon: LCOffice (v1.0.16)
• Office Length Override: 20
• Benchmark taken while standing still after entering through the exit

Uploaded! It should be available for clients very soon
https://thunderstore.io/package/download/fumiko/CullFactory/0.8.4/

[toxic oxide]

i love it when the dungeon doesn't render so i can see where the apparatus is (latest Office on 0.8.4)

[toxic oxide]

from testing, which interiors should go where?

[austere stirrup]

nice, glad it wasn't too bad a hit

[austere stirrup]

oh, does the apparatus room have issues too? the only place I saw issues was in the upper floor door

it does render when you enter it though right?

oh wait I misread I think

if you saw through the upper floor door that's a known issue with LC_Office

[toxic oxide]

not the upper floor door

took a fire exit to a lower floor

[austere stirrup]

oh interesting

[toxic oxide]

could see through the walls when moving out the room of the fire exit

and found the apparatus thanks to that

[austere stirrup]

I'll have a look later but if you want to (hopefully) ensure that it's working fine you can see the dungeon flow name in the logs when it's being generated and add that to the "use" list

should be Office[something]Flow I believe