Cull Factory: Stops rendering faraway rooms

[fair oyster]

I can't understand what's the reason

I understand that the assembly is massive, 170 mods

But this was not the case before, as if something was being ignored

[austere stirrup]

👀

this was way easier than I expected

didn't even have to do any cross products myself

[austere stirrup]

it's wooorking

it does cull lights quite aggressively but I think that may be fixable by attaching bounds to the lights in the dungeon based on their range

(video is with it updating culling only when I press E to demo it)

[lament mason]

I could imagine if the enemies just standing in front of you but you won't notice it till you get close 😭 unless they exclude enemies from this

I never tried it enough

[austere stirrup]

nah, enemies aren't included (yet)

it's possible they could be culled too, but the benefit would probably be negligible (except maybe with some scary mods)

[inland plover]

I might be wrong but when using Control Company I never had my monster/other players get culled, even when exiting the culling area

Yeah what Zaggy said

Eh, I feel like having them be culled could lead to some unfavorable/unfair scenarios

[austere stirrup]

culling them would be purely visual, as it is for the dungeon itself

[inland plover]

Like turning your back to a coil head that's being culled and getting your head discombobulated a second later

Kinda a skill issue, but still

[austere stirrup]

and if I'm correct, it wouldn't result in the enemy being invisible on your screen, unless the update rate is very low

[inland plover]

As long as audio isn't culled then it should be fine (still can be unfair at times, but was less unfair for most situations)

[austere stirrup]

audio would still be there

it's just the models that stop rendering

not sure what would be unfair

[inland plover]

^^^

[austere stirrup]

I didn't understand that sentence tbh

[lament mason]

I don't know the context to this video, but is it you modified the config that it will render even less, or this is the default?

[inland plover]

Idk about you but if I died because a coil-head that wasn't rendering snapped my neck I'm logging off

For 5 minutes before getting back on

[austere stirrup]

it's a proof of concept of portal occlusion culling, which means that only what is visible through the doors/room boundaries is rendered, in simple terms

[inland plover]

Unless someone has hearing problems, then not a skill issue ofc

[austere stirrup]

but it wouldn't not be rendering

if its bounding box is in the view frustum, it renders

[inland plover]

Oh you mean view based culling?

[austere stirrup]

yep

occlusion culling

[inland plover]

I thought u meant nearby culling lol that's my bad

(didn't watch the video cuz mobile data sucks)

[austere stirrup]

ah gotcha

to be fair, I didn't say what it was representing

[inland plover]

Fair, fair

Would love view based culling tbh

[austere stirrup]

before and after portal occlusion culling:

(check the top left)

battery consumption unrelated

(forgot to mention, that's on Titan, so worst case planet interior obviously)

[craggy dove]

niiiiiiice

that's a hefty gain

[valid sinew]

ooooh, that's nice

[remote gorge]

Would it be possible to create an API for adding quick LODs so the culling isn't that obvious?

[fair oyster]

WHAT THE FUCK

I WANT TO TEST THIS!

[austere stirrup]

do you mean in the mod as it exists now?

[austere stirrup]

it's definitely not ready for prime time yet, if you stand in the right spot in the mansion the whole world pops out of existence lol

[remote gorge]

No in general. I would want to try to do this, but I'm fresh at modding in C# and C++ and I'd want to make a mod complimenting this one

[fair oyster]

Well it's commonplace

Can I somehow make a config so that for generating a mansion there is a different setting that is more stable?

And the setting in the config file was ignored

As a temporary solution

[remote gorge]

But I don't know if there is a way to make the engine draw LODs since I thin that culling overrides them

[austere stirrup]

I just tossed this together from my little testing mod to make a proof of concept, so there are no stable options

[austere stirrup]

no there are distance based LODs, the player models use them

I don't think anything else does though

[remote gorge]

Hmmm, so I'd have to get into algorithmically decreasing the amount of polygons on many models then

[fair oyster]

This is a good decision

[austere stirrup]

oh yeah, if you want to do it automatically

[fair oyster]

Because it seems to me that Unity doesn't want to limit textures

[austere stirrup]

but I mean, the models are pretty low poly already, I think there's a lot lower hanging fruit than that

[fair oyster]

And it loads them with reserve, even if the player doesn’t see them

Although, maybe I just don't understand it

And I always think about the bad

[ripe crane]

Dont think thats a thing

[austere stirrup]

I mean it is a thing, but an incredibly difficult (or if you want to get a plugin, expensive probably) thing

[ripe crane]

The offscreen monsters probably aren’t even that big of a toll on performance tbh

[fair oyster]

I agree

[austere stirrup]

yeah I doubt it

their AI is much worse for performance than their models could possibly be

[fair oyster]

Now I'm more interested in how much different mods interact with each other that load FPS so much

[austere stirrup]

otherwise I wouldn't have to make a mod that fixes lag spikes lol

[remote gorge]

But I also kinda think about decreasing the load on the CPU since most of the time I'm cpu bound anyway. But I don't know what's there that could be optimized

[ripe crane]

The #1 first step to optimisation is figuring out what you need to optimise

[austere stirrup]

^

I think they're getting close to having an easy way to get it running in Unity editor so that it can be profiled easily

and effectively

I've tried profiling it before and my results were.... nearly meaningless from what I could tell

although maybe I fucked it up

[remote gorge]

Hmmm

[austere stirrup]

uh oh

[fair oyster]

infuriates

[austere stirrup]

oh I see, there's rooms that connect with no doors, makes sense

[fair oyster]

Can you imagine what will happen if suddenly a game patch comes out with performance and everything changing?

All mods will fall

Our work will be down the drain

And I’ll go into the corner to cry, because everything will have to be tested again

To make the mod build work

[austere stirrup]

eh

we'll see

I'm just having fun hacking on a cool game

[valid sinew]

wouldn't be easier to profile with something like nvidia nsight?

[fair oyster]

What it is? 0_0

[valid sinew]

https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-graphics

[fair oyster]

It looks big, but I don't understand much...

[valid sinew]

you can basically recreate every gpu draw call in order

[austere stirrup]

that profiles the GPU, which isn't really the bottleneck here

except on very large maps like Titan

it's definitely useful though

might be worth a look either way I suppose, but I just decided to hack something together for fun :-)

[valid sinew]

i did not notice you were talking about cpu usage 🫣

[ripe crane]

no

In editor gives us more

[austere stirrup]

looks like lights are gonna be a little tricky though

this isn't supposed to be lit up, not sure why the lights are there with the culling enabled

[fair oyster]

I have some strange behavior with my RAM. This is always stable, with heavy loads of 3-4 GB. Then in the same situations 6-7 GB

Probably the 170 mod assembly is to blame xD

I'm trying to understand, the birds are outside, are they somehow straining the system?

They don't have their own AI, do they?

The fewer monsters, the better the console and the game feel

The fog effect is simply killing the game; nothing will help on maps with such weather. Neither disabling HD or enabling CullFactory for minimal rendering

[fair oyster]

On the Aquatis map
The premises are darker than usual...
https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/sfDesat/Aquatis/

Or maybe it's because I turned it on

And this
https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Bobbie/FixRPCLag/

[dusky condor]

(This mod isnt needed as you can do the same stuff in the bepinex config)

[fair oyster]

Yes, I know, but why not take a ready-made option)

Spooky :3

It seems like the fixes are turning off the lighting in CullFactory, or it just seems to me xD

[dusky condor]

If you have the diversity mod there is a truedarkness config (if you have that)

[fair oyster]

It's disabled)

I'm waiting for updates from him

It's like the old version of CullFactory when the lighting was automatically turned off

But at the moment I have the latest version and default settings

For some reason, some of my monsters have stopped knocking down doors...

Like Thumper or Jester

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/itsmeowdev/DoorFix
At first I thought it was because of him

Or due to some other mods

Or maybe because of CullFactory...

No, it's some kind of nonsense

[fair oyster]

I don’t know, please recommend a config so that this doesn’t happen. Or do I need to wait for an update? @glass juniper @alpine berry

[alpine berry]

Looks like either player you spectating is "out of bounds"
Or marked as not being inside the facility
Everything should work fine with default config otherwise

[fair oyster]

Every other time, depending on your luck

[austere stirrup]

portal culling is working with zero artifacts that I can see 👀

no more light pop-in and it still culls in .15ms

[trail tundra]

Are there any known compatibility issues with this mod and others?

[dusky condor]

I’ve had no issues aside from some custom areas being invisible right at after entering, but its fixed by moving forward a little, and isn’t much of a compatibility issue

[fair oyster]

BodyCam + Minimap on the ship

[austere stirrup]

minimap is a rough one, it circumvents the vanilla radar map rendering so everything kinda breaks

once I get my occlusion culling ported over it should probably be fine

[cerulean gate]

Is lc office fixed yet?

[trail tundra]

Nice. I don’t use either in my mod pack so this mod will be very helpful :)

[upbeat trail]

second the bodycam stuff is made compatible i'm nabbing it instantly, my whole group has weak computers

[austere stirrup]

to my knowledge body cams should work as is, do they not?

well, they should work as well as being in the facility in person I suppose

I think that occlusion culling per-camera should make things a lot more consistent as far as mod support in general

with regard to custom interiors and mods that add more cameras

[glass juniper]

at the moment cullfactory does a pass on every camera to identify what rooms are visible to that camera, and the results are aggregated to form a list of all the rooms that should be rendered that frame
then we go through all the rooms and turn their renderers and lights on and off accordingly

as for why the monitor doesn't work right now, it's probably that the player's transform is different from their cameras' transform
I've pushed an update to github a day ago and it probably fixes it

I'll do some testing and upload it on thunderstore

I also discussed with zaggy1024 about deprecating the current testing methods and using portal occlusion culling in the future, so everyone using cullfactory will automatically be able to get a better experience after an update

[austere stirrup]

I think the first update with portal occlusion culling will stillhave a few issues to be aware of, the main one being that dynamic lights aren't taken into account, so if a room that a flashlight or lamp is in gets culled, it will shine straight through the wall

should be fixable, but that may be at the cost of some performance, it remains to be seen

(I gotta resist the urge to try to fix that now because I will definitely end up delaying the release lol)

[glass juniper]

yeah, that issue is present with the current version as well so we can always fix that on a later version

I'll also do some testing with my friends so we can gather more statistics on what performance gains we can get on lower end devices

[austere stirrup]

do you want to test with my WIP?

it seems fairly stable at the moment, but obviously may still be risky since I've only been able to test it a bit before having to make changes

[glass juniper]

ah gotcha

do you have a fork or a repo on github? that way I'll be able to suggest changes if i stumble into issues

(also learn a thing or two ofc)

[austere stirrup]

not currently, since I've been tossing it together in my project that I just use to make proofs of concept

I could just send you the source though :-)

[glass juniper]

i see i see

would love to test it out 👍

[austere stirrup]

oh wait lemme clean out the build dir first

had all the referenced assemblies crammed in there lol

this has the source and you can pull the build from bin/Release

very sparsely commented so far, but hopefully legible

the KeepPreviousFrustums option is currently ineffective, it just does that by default currently (and probably will when I merge it into CullFactory)

ShowFrustum activates when you press E and there's no way to remove the quads from the world without UnityExplorer so be careful with that one outside testing

[glass juniper]

that's the most amount of 3d maths i've seen in a long while 😭
love it

[austere stirrup]

could've been way worse tbh lol

I discovered that Unity has helpers for everything I needed to do thankfully

[glass juniper]

yeah, can't imagine working with quaternions without them

[austere stirrup]

I thought I was gonna be doing normalizations of cross products of cross products

[glass juniper]

hm.. we could probably work on some sort of virtualization if we want to go a bit further with optimizations

so instead of making actual gameobjects for portals we use a struct that encapsulates the dimensions of it instead

[austere stirrup]

oh yeah, that was just for convenience to visualize them for debugging

[glass juniper]

ah i see

[austere stirrup]

I think that would mainly be a memory footprint optimization though

unless we can make it use an array lookup instead of a hashtable

then that might be pretty good

[glass juniper]

yeah

[austere stirrup]

doesn't seem like there's any sort of unique ID for doors, though, so I'm not sure that's possible

[glass juniper]

there is Object.GetHashCode which could be helpful

[austere stirrup]

hashcodes can have collisions though, so we're back to square one

it would have to be sequential IDs

[glass juniper]

it's less likely in lethal company where we have only a few doors (rough guess, less than 1024)

ah yeah, GetHashCode uses reflection by default

even microsoft suggests overriding it

[austere stirrup]

right, but hashcodes are designed to distribute evenly, so we would need a ridiculously big array

wait why reflection? why isn't it reference equality?

does it need reflection to do reference equality checks?

[glass juniper]

ah sorry mb reflection is only for value types
it does something else for reference types

[austere stirrup]

ohh ok

that's good

I was worried we were tanking a big performance hit just for using defaulted hash codes

[austere stirrup]

oh, I forgot to mention, that current version is still hardcoded to the local player, so spectating and the radar map probably doesn't work at all

[glass juniper]

that's alr
I'll make some changes to it and make a branch 👍

[austere stirrup]

oh that's gonna be tricky with no repo just yet

I guess in that case we'll have to use my current version as a base if I make any changes before you're done

[remote crystal]

lookin forward to havin radar fixed. was really problematic today. 🙏

[fair oyster]

I have a question

QtheConqueror-LoggingApi-1.0.1
What is he doing? (link does not work)

Is it needed for developers?

[austere stirrup]

if it has API in the name, it usually is

@glass juniper it looks like maybe on the mansion interior there are some lights that are being enabled every frame so they shine through walls, have you encountered this?

in the factory interior it seemed like it didn't override me setting them disabled, but I'm not sure if this is a bug in my code or something is fighting me

[glass juniper]

hmm yeah i've definitely seen lights shining through mansion walls

[austere stirrup]

it might not matter though in the end

I think I need to refactor how I cull stuff a bit

I've gotta move things to the camera callbacks, and since maps need the whole map to render, I'll have to hide everything except certain tiles for perspective cameras

[glass juniper]

did some branch cutting on GetTileAtPosition

[austere stirrup]

whereas currently I avoid that work and only change what needs changing to maintain the player perspective

hmm

I had that array of tiles specifically to avoid all of those field reads

and the overhead of a ReadOnlyCollection interface

reformatting to use continue is good though

also is it a style choice to make const variables use member naming convention?

or did you change the declaration?

and are you integrating the code into CullFactory, or do you want me to do that?

would be good to get it in a branch so we don't end up in merge conflict city

[glass juniper]

ah yeah, i'm integrating it into cullfactory rn

[austere stirrup]

ahh ok

[glass juniper]

my coding conventions are basically the same as the default in rider so

it might look a bit weird

[austere stirrup]

hmm I guess I'll have to see

I'm fine with adapting

might be a little getting used to though

I'll try to hold off on rewriting the culling implementation until you finish that then

(it will be difficult though, I hate bugs lol)

[glass juniper]

yeaah i'll try to finish as soon as i can

i'll probably fix some if i run into one though

[austere stirrup]

let me know if you will, I can hopefully tell you if it's going to be invalidated by some refactor

for now I'll save this seed where I'm noticing lighting artifacts so we can repro later

I think it might be good to put a simple option to override map seed from LethalConfig, there's a mod to do it but the UI conflicts with a lot that I use for testing

plus if it's saved in config we can easily iterate without having to set up the seed every time

one thing I'm very suspicious about is whether TestPlanesAABB actually checks all the planes I pass it, because I'm seeing a lot of situations where the camera frustum is occluding a whole portal visible through another door and it doesn't cull it

I think I'll try writing that in C# and see if I get better results, because I think it should be working

or actually, even better, I can run through all the frustums in the stack

[glass juniper]

no way?

[austere stirrup]

hm?

[glass juniper]

oh i'm just excited about fitting all the frustum info in the stack, that might've came out a bit wrong sorry

[austere stirrup]

by stack I mean the array of frustums in CallForEachLineOfSight

I can just run through it up to the current position in the stack and test them individually, so we don't lose any planes

downside is perhaps more overhead calling through to C++, but I think it may be worth it to cull more

hopefully

we can test it with an option

[glass juniper]

ah gotcha

i haven't looked through the entire code yet, but an optimization method is to store all the planes used inside a cache, and for each step we can reuse the same planes with an index

much like how triangles are specified on meshes

[austere stirrup]

yeah, we should be able to reuse the planes arrays for sure now

[glass juniper]

i suspect its perf gains will be pretty small though, but that's on the shelf just in case

[austere stirrup]

it is memory allocation, it may be something decent

[austere stirrup]

huh, that bug I saw earlier with light going through the wall seems to not be happening anymore unless I turn off culling, I wonder if I had the setting backwards lol

sleep deprivation moment perhaps

turning off culling is definitely bugged out though, there are portions of the map missing when I switch that

[glass juniper]

hmm

https://github.com/2394425147/LC_CullFactory/tree/feat/portal-culling

in the meantime i'll just make a branch here

[austere stirrup]

is it building and running yet?

oh jeez, the formatter lines up field assignments, that's gonna be a pain in VS probably

wuh oh

haven't messed with the formatter there

[glass juniper]

ah, that's my personal coding style so i'd be glad to use a more compatible alternative

[austere stirrup]

ah, gotcha

normally I just format my code myself, so I don't usually bother with that

I don't feel like it improves readability for me, but that's just my opinion man

so up to you really, I could try to figure out if VS can do that

I can grab this branch and start adding my changes on top of it if you feel it's ready

wait, did you mean to commit Assembly-CSharp? is it stripped?

[glass juniper]

i put it through bepinex publicizer so things like nameof(RoundManager.waitForMainEntranceTeleportToSpawn) is possible

[austere stirrup]

gotcha

sounds good

let's see if I can get this building on my end

[glass juniper]

np

i'm trying to remove the old code atm so things should break here or there

[austere stirrup]

as long as you're not still adding code from my source dump it's fine, I can rebase and get my commits building

could we add a nuget.config for the bepinex repo?

or is it accepted practice to put that somewhere global?

also I wonder if we should trim down the number of assemblies we're pulling in, including everything from _Data/Managed seems excessive

if we don't do that we can have a .gitignore'd folder for assemblies that we copy from the game folder so that we don't have different paths on different machines trying to push to the project file

[glass juniper]

ah yeah for sure

i haven't been too deep in package management myself so i make dumb stuff sometimes

[austere stirrup]

all good

my projects aren't contributor-friendly yet either, I don't even have them on the .NET SDK

lemme see if I can cut this down and make them relative paths

also I'm wondering, do you know how to rebase? I tend to prefer rebasing over merge commits if we can do that

makes the history look a lot less ugly on GitHub

hmm, looks like publicizer doesn't didn't strip out method contents, I wonder if it's safe to have that in repo

[glass juniper]

ah yeah, although i perfer merging since you can use pull request merging and have automated release notes

[austere stirrup]

pull requests can rebase as well

automated release notes though?

why wouldn't it be possible with rebased branches too?

although I haven't used that feature

[glass juniper]

come to think of it i haven't tried rebasing on an actual repo before yeah

[austere stirrup]

I think there's a setting to change the default action for pull requests

when it's set up to rebase and pull, the pull requests will be marked on the commits still

imo it's very clean

if you want a good example, SerenityOS is the project I contributed to

@glass juniper do you think you could amend your commit to that branch and remove Assembly-CSharp? I'm thinking we should have contributors copy the assemblies from Managed and then have AssemblyPublicizer publicize the copied assembly in the csproj

not sure about the legality of keeping the game's code there, and stripping the meat of the assembly makes it harder to work with because we don't get the disassembly for free

[glass juniper]

ah, for sure

[lethal barn]

does this increase fps on low performance computers?

[fair oyster]

I have a question. when should I wait for the next CullFactor update?

[austere stirrup]

are you asking when it'll be done? that's not really a question I can answer for you lol

it's done when it's done

it's new territory adapting this for another repository's style and everything

[dusky condor]

try it and find out

[fair oyster]

I look forward to it

[lethal barn]

well i have a good computer

[dusky condor]

it should

[oak plover]

whats a good way to run this mod? default config settings are a good balance?

[glass juniper]

Just uploaded a new version! This includes the portal occlusion culling (implemented by @austere stirrup), which cuts down the number of rooms rendered to only what's visible, so there should be some more performance improvements
https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/fumiko/CullFactory/

(it should be 0.7.0 so in a minute when it updates actually)

[orchid jetty]

is the radar rendering fixed too?

i thought i recall seeing something about that

[fair oyster]

Is there any other information?

[glass juniper]

yeah the radar rendering should be fixed

[orchid jetty]

ah, nice

congrats to you and zaggy

for maintaining probably the best mod on thunderstore at this point

[austere stirrup]

for a little extra information: Portal occlusion culling should be an improvement in performance especially in very large interiors, but I'd like to hear what people's experiences are on those and smaller moons. The idea is for this mode of culling to be the zero compromises mode that can still gain you performance, so you shouldn't notice any holes in the world, or static lights popping in and out

one very tough benchmark that portal occlusion culling excels in is the interiors from https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1196943144009351258

Office has extremely large interiors a lot of shadow-casting spot lights, so culling those helps to gain a lot of performance back, as well has stopping the dreaded shadow budget exceeded spam

[jade vapor]

uhh....

[austere stirrup]

is this with portal occlusion culling?

[alpine berry]

Portal culling doesn't seem render around monitor target(Radar booster)..

But aside from that portal culling works really good

[jade vapor]

yes

[alpine berry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/727894270161322055.webp?size=32&name=Okayimacry&quality=lossless

[austere stirrup]

could you both send profile codes that I can look at?

[jade vapor]

i'm not using R2mod e.e manual

[austere stirrup]

hmm, hold on a sec

might've been some missing commits in the build that got uploaded

[fair oyster]

I just tested it on a large generation, it looks amazing

I can’t say for sure about monitors, but I think it’s a small price to pay for getting a large number of FPS

Great job

[glad condor]

portal occlusion working weird if you stand in the doorway of castle dungeon

https://i.imgur.com/QAdl5Bk.png

only when you stand exactly in the doorway

https://i.imgur.com/sieAEB2.png

but okay if you step out of doorway

[austere stirrup]

ah interesting, might be something funky about the tile bounds there

I'll take a look later

that's an interior I haven't tested with it, so let me know if you see any artifacts like light pop-in

or door frames may pop too

[glad condor]

sure

[glass juniper]

i forgor to pull in some of the commits 💀

should be fixed in 0.7.1 though

[austere stirrup]

might be worth testing again on this version, but I'm curious what interior you're in that did that

[jade vapor]

i using MoreInteriors

[trail vault]

question, what difference does portal culling do from the normal technique?

and will openbodycams be fixed?

[glass juniper]

portal culling culls more unnecessary rooms than depth-based culling, so basically more performance usually

openbodycams compatibility should work out of the box in the latest version

[trail vault]

i love you op

[austere stirrup]

yeah, portal occlusion culling will apply to any camera in the game, so the body cam itself will be culled as will your camera

[trail vault]

i love u all

i wish i can contribute but im not skilled

[austere stirrup]

also, portal occlusion culling has the potential to run slower than depth based culling depending on the depth setting, but in general it should be able to perform better when not looking down long hallways or through several doors at once

which essentially comes down to the fact that portal occlusion culling should never cull anything that is visible to the camera

[trail vault]

so basically depth culling just culled anything that was far away no exceptions cameras included, and portal culling is basically the same but more efficient and fixes cameras am i right?

[austere stirrup]

well, it's possible for depth culling to apply correctly to all cameras as well, but culling anything far away yes

essentially the interior is divided up into rooms, some of which are obvious through the visible doorways, and depth culling counts out a number of those in your surroundings to allow to be visible

portal occlusion culling instead checks what is visible through those doorways, until nothing is and then it stops

[trail vault]

well i dont want to get too deep in the technicality so ill just thank u all for the hard work

[austere stirrup]

fair enough and thank you

[jade vapor]

this is happend Scoopy. same like Hardy

v0.7.1 btw

[rich sky]

what event mod is that?

[jade vapor]

HullBreaker Company. i custom event made self

[rich sky]

ty

[cerulean gate]

why did it become unplayable with custom interiors with the recent update

[winter light]

I'm also experiencing issues with custom interiors on the latest version

[austere stirrup]

if you're having issues, you can switch it back to depth culling until the issues are resolved, but could you explain more about the issues you're seeing?

[silver escarp]

what is the difference between these?

[austere stirrup]

the first one only activates when the player is inside the interior

[still pond]

Interiors freaking out basically I;d say if anyone had same issue as me. Blocks not loading that directly in front of player, even after adjusting culling distance - created square patches around interiors etc BUT only noticed this is custom interiors.

[austere stirrup]

hmm, I'll need to know which interiors specifically, it can change from one to the other

I found no issues with LC_Office for example

it's possible that they're not setting the doorway sizes accurately for DunGen, which will make portal occlusion culling utterly useless

[still pond]

MoreInteriors, Scarlet & Scoopy (both Sewer & Dungeon)

[austere stirrup]

all interiors in MoreInteriors? or is it just one?

I'll test those in a bit, have to patch something for OpenBodyCams quick

[still pond]

MoreInteriors only got one Interior atm still Ithink

[austere stirrup]

gotcha ty

[still pond]

on TS anyway 😛

[austere stirrup]

ts?

[still pond]

It's no problem, you're welcome 😄

Also good stuff with OBC, working so flawlessly :3

[still pond]

ThunderStore*

[austere stirrup]

ah right

[austere stirrup]

for the bunker interior, I think I'm going to need to see examples of these issues, I just loaded it up and I'm not seeing anything going wrong so far

or at least not obviously so

[austere stirrup]

looks like I can reproduce an issue on Scarlet Devil Mansion though

[austere stirrup]

well, I see the issue with Scarlet

that white square is supposed to cover the whole doorway

just notified the dev of Scarlet, should be fixed in the next version of that interior

it may not necessarily resolve all issues, since I did notice something odd going on even if I crouched in the doors, but I'll have to take another look when that patch is out

[rancid barn]

Just jumping in to ask if anyone's tested SCP and if there's any problems like SDM

[austere stirrup]

I haven't heard anything about that yet, which mod adds that so I can add it to my testing list?

I know there's a couple or more SCP mods and one adds an exterior and one adds an interior, but I don't know the names

[winter folio]

SCPFoundationDungeon I believe

[austere stirrup]

nice, thanks

[austere stirrup]

Scoopy's is also affected by the incorrect doorway sizes, just posted in their thread about it

hopefully they can patch that so culling will work in the castle and sewer interiors

[austere stirrup]

looks like SCPFoundationDungeon has good doorway sizes and I couldn't see any artifacts @rancid barn

[rancid barn]

Coolio, good thing I did that by default

[austere stirrup]

oh, is it your mod? cool

@last venture in reply to #1195583267546595389 message, is that with CullFactory 1.7.1? I've been testing with LC_Office a lot and I've noticed zero issues with it running portal occlusion culling

any issues I've seen with custom interiors so far has been due to not setting the door sizes correctly, but LC_Office did have those set

[last venture]

In my defense

I have not actually tried CullFactory yet!

Just what I've heard from other individuals

[dusky condor]

It works very well for me

[last venture]

I heard that it caused apparatus issues to pop up again or something

But idk

[dusky condor]

Never had an issue with office

[last venture]

Good to know

Will likely give it a shot after LLL is a tad more stable and ScarletDevilMansion updates for compat

adds it to my future list

Also @austere stirrup should probably get the top message pinned

[rancid barn]

Also is there any plan for how this is gonna handle stuff like Hadal?

[austere stirrup]

seems doubtful, it only changes the visibility of objects, so unless the issue was something being invisible it shouldn't be an issue

[austere stirrup]

it's not my thread!

I'm just contributing the portal occlusion culling feature and related stuff to the mod

[austere stirrup]

what does it do? I haven't heard of it

[rancid barn]

Not out yet, but it's a dungeon with an underwater theme and glass corridors letting you see other rooms around you

[austere stirrup]

oh I see

hmm

[rancid barn]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1191943294612156436

[austere stirrup]

I guess the plan would be to add a blacklist that includes that by default

unfortunately, I think all you can rely on for that is frustum culling, so if it has problems with density causing low framerates it might just be that way

looks very cool though!

[rancid barn]

Maybe collaborating with Batby when he's back to add a flag to a dungeon saying whether to use culling or not might be worth doing

Would mean adding LLL as a dependency though if you care about that

[austere stirrup]

ah right, that could be nice

it can be a soft dependency

I haven't even looked at LLL code at all though, not sure what that would entail

I also probably need to look into the Backrooms mod, I'm guessing it doesn't work correctly with either culling method at the moment if it uses DunGen

[rancid barn]

For LLL dungeons it should be as simple as adding a flag to the extended dungeon flow, then using one of the callbacks on flow selection

[glass juniper]

i can't seem to find the pin button yesterday when you posted either but I'll try adding it to the readme so more people can read about it there hopefully

[austere stirrup]

I think maybe the mods have to do it

don't know if that's changed, but I believe that was the case in the past

just sayin it's your choice what gets pinned in here

[rancid barn]

Yeah only mods can pin stuff including in threads

[glass juniper]

ah i see

[old bison]

Might have been already reported but rooms also stop rendering when standing in doorways on scoopy's sewer interior

[austere stirrup]

it was mentioned yeah

they're aware of the issue and should be able to fix it, perhaps and hopefully in their next update

[formal spruce]

I have a vague memory of this mod having issues with LC_Office, was that fixed?

[austere stirrup]

should work perfectly with portal occlusion culling, not sure about depth culling

I wouldn't have expected either to have issues

[formal spruce]

alright

what about scalet's mansion?

[austere stirrup]

currently has issues with portal culling, but the dev is aware of the issue and the solution to it

should work fine with depth culling afaik

but unfortunately you'll have to use LethalConfig to switch it in-game if you want to use portal occlusion culling with other interiors

no restart needed though

[formal spruce]

alright

[tulip skiff]

control company support?

[craggy dove]

they put out an update earlier to fix it

[austere stirrup]

oh did they? nice

I had been checking but I hadn't seen it

[craggy dove]

i mean i havent tested it myself. but i saw on thunderstore that there was a new update and the changelog mentioned cullfactory

[austere stirrup]

yeah, I guess it got released not long after I had checked it last

I'm sure it should resolve any issues, but I'll have to test it later

[silver escarp]

@austere stirrup so im using depth culling and had the issues of entering the sewer interior and there just wasn’t anything I could see the whole map underground. and also the door was white

[glass juniper]

the bounding box in the entrance room doesn't cover all grounds so that happens sometimes

walk forward a bit and you should be fine

I'll try to fix this in the update though

[sturdy spear]

oh i did the doorway size fix a few hours ago. i knocked immeditealy last night so forgot to mention :)

[silver escarp]

shit I meant to @ you and not zaggy but atleast you saw it lol

sorry zaggy

[austere stirrup]

all good

if we just make depth culling use the same method of finding the tile that the player is in, it should work fine

[glass juniper]

yep

just need to test for the closest tile when the player isn't in one

[silver escarp]

so what’s more stable rn? Depth or portal

[glass juniper]

depends on if the interiors have proper doors set up, but usually you should stick with portal

use depth if you experience issues, basically

[austere stirrup]

curious, it looks like the sewer entrance culls out even with portal occlusion culling

I wonder if some other room is colliding with the entrance consistently or something

[glass juniper]

interesting 🤔

[austere stirrup]

gonna work on visualizing the tile bounds tomorrow to allow diagnosing issues like this more easily, but I didn't realize how close the camera has to be to the bounding box

I think the new tile selection method fixes the culling near the door, but if you go to the right it doesn't think you're inside for either of them, so I think that room's bounds are just way off

will investigate more tomorrow

[fair oyster]

What takes up the most RAM from a mod build? Cosmetics for MoreCompany? Custom moons and loot? Skinwalkers?

[cerulean gate]

custom moons most likely

[dim citrus]

So this mod edits the main camera's far plane correct?

[fair oyster]

and the different loot?

[cerulean gate]

Idk. I used to use LECore with a lot of custom moons before and the game used a lot of ram. Now I don’t use LE but use a lot of mods and the game still doesn’t use anywhere close to what it used to use. But i never used a mod that specifically only adds scrap.

[fair oyster]

I have a lot of different loot from LE, there are beautiful moons, I sometimes want to go with them. but the question is, does it have a strong effect on productivity and only on RAM?

[cerulean gate]

Didn’t understand

[austere stirrup]

it does by default, I'm thinking that it might be worth changing that as it doesn't usually matter for the amount of objects rendered with occlusion culling

[dim citrus]

Just trying to think how to get that to not affect what i'm doing

[austere stirrup]

how does it affect seamless dungeon exactly?

can't you duplicate camera parameters to your inside perspective?

[dim citrus]

I copy the values of the main camera's details, IE far plane and what not, cache that and use it for projection matrix calculations

[austere stirrup]

ah, does it not get changed soon enough?

[dim citrus]

I believe that changes the projection matrix, and the more important thing if the player is inside the factory it would cause the outside to get cut off at what the far plane is set to

[austere stirrup]

ahh true

[dim citrus]

I try not to update my cache often because inverse of a 4x4 is computationally expensive if i do it often

[austere stirrup]

yeah having different far planes inside and out for your mod is tricky

gotcha

[dim citrus]

I do want to support this because, man it would raise performance alot for using extra cameras

[austere stirrup]

out of curiosity, I've been wondering why it can't just transform a camera and let the unity engine take care of things? do you have to skew the near plane to avoid clipping?

yeah

it's tricky because it does really on getting the frustum from a camera

[dim citrus]

Yeah so if there is a dungeon hallway right behind the startroom it looks really weird and bad

[austere stirrup]

ah right

hmm

[dim citrus]

I can probably just update the cache when the player teleports

Because that's what this is doing right? updating values when that happens

[austere stirrup]

do you set the perspective matrix on the camera in such a way that the culling will be aware of it?

[austere stirrup]

I'm not sure actually, but it must

it's in GitHub, I haven't looked at that code though

[dim citrus]

The only values i change of the camera of 20, 21, 22 and ,23 of the projection matrix which is the near clipping plane

        public static void SetObliqueProjectionMatrix(this Camera camera, ref Vector4 clipPlane, Matrix4x4 sourceProjection, ref Matrix4x4 inverseProjection)
        {
            //credit tsunderella if you use this :p it was a pain in the ass

            float sX = Mathf.Sign(clipPlane.x);
            float sY = Mathf.Sign(clipPlane.y);
            float qX = inverseProjection.m00 * sX + inverseProjection.m01 * sY + inverseProjection.m02 + inverseProjection.m03;
            float qY = inverseProjection.m10 * sX + inverseProjection.m11 * sY + inverseProjection.m12 + inverseProjection.m13;
            float qZ = inverseProjection.m20 * sX + inverseProjection.m21 * sY + inverseProjection.m22 + inverseProjection.m23;
            float qW = inverseProjection.m30 * sX + inverseProjection.m31 * sY + inverseProjection.m32 + inverseProjection.m33;
            float cMult =
            (2.0f *
            (sourceProjection.m30 * qX + sourceProjection.m31 * qY + sourceProjection.m32 * qZ + sourceProjection.m33 * qW)) /
             (clipPlane.x * qX + clipPlane.y * qY + clipPlane.z * qZ + clipPlane.w * qW);

            sourceProjection.m20 = clipPlane.x * cMult - sourceProjection.m30;
            sourceProjection.m21 = clipPlane.y * cMult - sourceProjection.m31;
            sourceProjection.m22 = clipPlane.z * cMult - sourceProjection.m32;
            sourceProjection.m23 = clipPlane.w * cMult - sourceProjection.m33;

            camera.projectionMatrix = sourceProjection;
        }```

[austere stirrup]

oh I see and you do assign it to the camera

I wasn't sure if that was possible

[dim citrus]

the main camera isn't changed though

[austere stirrup]

right yeah

CullFactory works per camera for occlusion culling though so that should work

[dim citrus]

I'll test it out see what comes up im still doing a bit of a rewrite just wanted to see what i should take into consideration for this to work in specific

[austere stirrup]

I should look into the far plane situation though, I don't know if it makes a bright void visible

[dim citrus]

I've messed with the far plane it, creates the unity gray background i think

[austere stirrup]

OpenBodyCams can see a light outside the world when it's on too close a far plane, but that's down to like 25

[dim citrus]

Could use the above code, think you would only need to do it once

having it in the player

[austere stirrup]

I think it may not affect performance much with occlusion culling since most of the time you can see the farthest visible point

[austere stirrup]

wait, what would that do for me?

this is for the near plane I thought

[dim citrus]

Sorry my mind skips places, was kind of unrelated, but i know you put it on the player didn't know if you had any issues with seeing the players insides or anything

Actually nvm that's uneeded

[austere stirrup]

oh nah, I switch the models' visibility to change perspective

any models that are visible are due to bugs though that does happen occasionally somehow

anyway, yeah, I'm very interested in getting this working with seamless dungeon so let me know what you might need

hopefully occlusion culling will also keep the door from rendering when facing towards it from far enough

although since it gets culled in beginCameraRendering, I'm not sure if isVisible updates before LateUpdate

[dim citrus]

my current "optimization" is bad its the generic testplanesaabb method for camera

does this just turn off meshrenders? when occlusion happens

[austere stirrup]

it specifically uses forceRenderingOff to avoid affecting the enabled flag which is more likely to be used

[austere stirrup]

I think that's fine, that's what I use for culling as well

since I run that over multiple frustums in an array, though, it might be worth writing my own to avoid the native call overhead

assuming it's bad enough

obviously testing the frustum won't allow occlusion culling to turn it off though, so it might be worth investigating the order of operations and seeing if checking the renderers visibility causes the door texture to flicker when you look at it quickly

[dim citrus]

If this is the case i can probably just do something simple like this if that plugin is loaded
if (currentRenderer.forceRenderingOff)
portal.OnBecameInvisible();
else
portal.OnBecameVisible();

[dim citrus]

I was just meaning it doesn't check if the object is actually visible it's only checking if its in the frustrum so if it so happens 3 fire exits generate and you look in there general direction your performance would tank for seamless

[austere stirrup]

right yeah

it can stop rendering if doors are closed though right? maybe they should close on their own after a certain time

[dim citrus]

I think calculatingaabb isn't too performance intensive atleast it doesn't come up in my profiler as being an issue

[austere stirrup]

yeah, for me it wasn't even registering as a sample I don't think

[dim citrus]

I have all that stuff configurable

            "doorContainer": "SteelDoor\\s\\(\\d+\\)",
            "alwaysRender": true,
            "closeAfter": -1,
            "regex": true,```

[austere stirrup]

but I'm not sure how much I trust profiler yet

ah nice

wait, does the game not keep references to the fire exits?

[dim citrus]

Kind of

[austere stirrup]

huh okay

[dim citrus]

Like theres alot of inconsistencies in how things are placed searching by names in a 1unit radius from a teleporter is kind of the best solution i've found for always getting them on any map

Inside or out

[austere stirrup]

ah, I suppose the door model just has some interactable component that references the teleporter that actually tells where the player ends up?

[dim citrus]

Nah they are completely seperate prefabs

[austere stirrup]

oh wow

that seems strange but maybe there's a reason for that

[dim citrus]

Actually the entrance teleporter doesn't even spawn in till almost before landing

[austere stirrup]

weird

[dim citrus]

I believe it's for networking reasons it seems he waits till all clients are ready

[austere stirrup]

is it another SpawnSyncedObject thing? or separate?

[dim citrus]

Yeah it's a syncedobject

[austere stirrup]

almost forgot to mention, but I believe forceRenderingOff affects isVisible, so it should be okay to just check that if you aren't already

worth checking if it works though

[austere stirrup]

I see yeah I had to hook into that in RoundManager to track the doors and lights spawning

kinda annoying they don't get attached to their parent in the tile

[dim citrus]

I tried to use isvisible but that doesn't work really, because it fires if any camera can see said object and i think the ship cameras where making that fire even when the ship was like no where near

[austere stirrup]

huh I thought their far planes would stop that

it could also be shadow casting though

oh wait and also the ship cameras (without mods at least) disable explicitly when you're outside the ship

so it must've been the main camera

[dim citrus]

That's very possible

I just disabled it quickly and didn't look into it because i was getting 20 fps from rendering the game 5 times lol

[austere stirrup]

I think isVisible plus the explicit frustum visibility check should be sufficient

lmao fair

[dim citrus]

OH ALSO THE EDITOR CAMERA FIRES THAT CALL

[austere stirrup]

oh that makes sense

[dim citrus]

I completely forgot that was making me really mad

[austere stirrup]

I'm sure your inside cameras were also making things visible too

assuming they were on at the start

[dim citrus]

Yeah, i am adding 4 extra cameras and im sure there frustrums would overlap

[austere stirrup]

things can be in frustum from the surface occasionally

yeah

so yeah basically I think the combination should take care of it

oh shit wait

occlusion culling might not work for visibility checks because it doesn't necessarily keep visibility set for the camera you're interested in

I'll have to see if just doing culling in LateUpdate collecting all visible tiles for all cameras is better

because otherwise you might have isVisible set to false because some camera other than the main camera rendered last and culled everything

[dim citrus]

Hmm all i really need to do is disable my camera if the player can't see the mesh, doesn't need to be in lateupdate. The camera object itself does all the major calculations

There is some inverse position calculations for objects near a portal but that's not super intensive

[austere stirrup]

the rendering is also quite expensive I believe

so I would assume setting visibility before your LateUpdate would be best

[dim citrus]

Ohh i see, i was actually doing it in a fixed update :p

I'm sure it would flicker if someone turned really fast

[austere stirrup]

you were doing the camera render there?

[dim citrus]

Nono

Disabling or enabling rendering stuff

[austere stirrup]

ah I see

[dim citrus]

using System.Collections;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using UnityEngine;
namespace SeamlessDungeon
{
    public class PortalMesh : MonoBehaviour
    {
        Portal portal;
        MeshRenderer portalRenderer;
        Renderer currentRenderer;
        void Start()
        {
            portal = GetComponentInParent<Portal>();
            portalRenderer = GetComponent<MeshRenderer>();
            currentRenderer = GetComponent<Renderer>();

        }
        void FixedUpdate()
        {
            if (portal.TrackedCamera != null)
                if (portal.TrackedCamera.VisibleFromCamera(portalRenderer))
                    portal.OnBecameVisible();
                else
                    portal.OnBecameInvisible();


        }

    }
}

[austere stirrup]

yeah I would assume that could cause flickering

[dim citrus]

I tried to get it to flicker but i didn't see any i'm running at 144hz and i'm assuming fixed is running at 30 tps?

[austere stirrup]

not sure really

and yeah it might be very difficult to see

visibility check is incredibly cheap though I think

[dim citrus]

Yeah i might swap it to update/lateupdate as long as it doesn't impact performance :p

[austere stirrup]

yee

I'll look into performance differences when I move to LateUpdate as well

if it's not great I might try some hybrid but really the only difference would probably be in the ship

[austere stirrup]

this sewers situation is tricky, the entrance bounds don't cover the door properly but it's actually intentional afaict

bounds to my left are the entrance, which is a tall prefab that includes the tunnel below, right one is a normal tunnel

problem is, if I raise the radius around the player that it checks for tiles, it may consider the player to be inside the right tile depending on how far away the entrance is

but also, I think this is kind of an issue on the sewer interior side, because I did have one seed where there was a room clipping into this side of the entrance and got me trapped

that happens because the bounds don't actually encompass the playable area, so a room is able to spawn inside the entrance room

if they're aware of that, the fix for that will probably also resolve the culling issue, but in the meantime maybe I'll just have to bump up the radius pretty high

[austere stirrup]

@dim citrus actually, I just took a look at how we're setting the far plane, and it actually only activates that if depth culling is used

so I would really just not worry about the far plane for now

depth culling currently won't be compatible with your mod anyway

since it doesn't take into account all active cameras in the world

ah wait just kidding, that's only the surface far plane

gonna have to rework this so that it's consistent

[cerulean gate]

does anyone have a workaround config for custom interiors?

[austere stirrup]

what I would do is use portal occlusion culling until I see an artifact, then use LethalConfig to either turn off culling or switch to depth culling

the culling mode can change at runtime

unfortunately, a proper fix will just take time for the developers of the interiors

[glass juniper]

fixedupdate runs at the game's physics update timestep so it's in the physics settings (iirc it's 0.02 seconds in-game time / runs at 50fps by default)

[cerulean gate]

do i need to change cull distance too? if i remember correctly, before i had to put it at 100 or smth because sometimes the whole room disappears

[cerulean gate]

also, do i write "depthculling" here?

[austere stirrup]

I would leave that as-is and use an in-game config editor to change it when you have issues

portal occlusion culling should give you the best experience on interiors that it works with

[austere stirrup]

that shouldn't cause whole rooms to disappear as far as I know, it should only slice off the view at that distance

with portal occlusion culling, bumping up the far plane distance isn't a bad idea

I'll add a list of known incompatibilities to the readme in the next update

(with the caveat that they may become outdated soon)

[austere stirrup]

next version will have a "fix" for the sewer entrance room and also allow depth culling to work consistently in the same tiles that portal occlusion culling works in

[craggy dove]

is there any way to blacklist certain dungeon flows from using occlusion culling? for example scoopy's interiors

[austere stirrup]

not currently, perhaps I should add that

I'm a little concerned that if I do, people will forget to test removing those blacklists when the interiors update, but I understand it's a bit of a hassle to modify the config even in-game

[craggy dove]

ideally it won't be necessary soon but just in the meantime it could be nice to have instead of manually toggling it off

[austere stirrup]

right

[craggy dove]

yeah i get that

[austere stirrup]

it's unfortunate that it couldn't work immediately out of the box with some of these interiors, but I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet and do that, we can hope that people will test it out without the blacklist later

I'll have to look into how I can check which modded interior is being loaded

[austere stirrup]

actually, come to think of it, there's an alternative where I just make it occlusion cull based on the tile bounds instead of the doorway bounds

[vestal vale]

gonna give this a try, see how well it works with modded interiors

[austere stirrup]

there are known issues with default settings for CullFactory in Scoopy's interiors and the Scarlet Devil Mansion (partially fixed but some things still visibly pop in and out)

[vestal vale]

eh popping in and out idm, never use scarlet mansion since its kinda....well very fps intensive lmao

[austere stirrup]

for Scoopy's, it's unfortunately quite problematic on the sewer interior

[vestal vale]

hmmm, ill haveta see how bad it is, since ik the start of that interior as a lot of props just surrounding it

[austere stirrup]

the issue is with the walls of the sewer disappearing as well as the props

depth culling should work fine though once you leave the entrance room

the entrance room has an issue that can cause it to disappear until you move to the left

[vestal vale]

lmfao, specifically to the left

[austere stirrup]

yep lol

[vestal vale]

cant move right, straight or back

[austere stirrup]

the bounding box for that room is shifted to the left

[vestal vale]

just L E F T

will check to see how bad the whole walls noclipping away lol. what bout his other interior? any issues on that end

[austere stirrup]

it's not as bad but still not good

if you want to see a visualization of what I'm talking about check out this message #1189848033110798346 message

basically if those white rectangles don't overlap on your screen, the next tile will be invisible including walls

[vestal vale]

ah, i couldnt helpt but chuckle at the floating void boxes imma be honest

is the issue on scoopys end or this mods end? im assuming scoopys since the interior is completely different from most (especially sewer)

[austere stirrup]

it's all fixes that scoopy needs to make yeah

those rectangles come from things that their interior defines

[austere stirrup]

as well as these ones

[vestal vale]

has scoopy said anythin bout fixin it? or making it at least compatible

[austere stirrup]

not yet unfortunately

as far as I'm aware anyway

[vestal vale]

now im curious, what bout moreinteriors?

[austere stirrup]

that one seemed to be perfectly fine from my testing

as was LC_Office

Scarlet is very close to working correctly as well, and it should work as expected with depth culling currently

[vestal vale]

so far this mod is helpin a lot with fps so fair play on that end

[austere stirrup]

glad to hear it! which mode have you used to test mostly and on which maps?

[vestal vale]

so far experimental, im runnin a pretty heavy modpack

lots of ai, custom moons custom interiors etc

[austere stirrup]

gotcha, hmm

experimentation always ran perfectly without culling for me given how small it is, but maybe with your pack it's less smooth

[vestal vale]

gonna try asteroid 13, since that has a big boost in spawning enemies, to see if the fps drops a lot

[austere stirrup]

since AI is a CPU load it's probably going to still drop it quite a lot

it might gain you back a little though

[vestal vale]

experimentation is a anigma for me lmao, it can work fine one second, then the next completely murders the frames

[austere stirrup]

could be due to enemy spawns, I often find my framerate changing drastically based on that

[vestal vale]

well most enemy spawns arent that big of an issue, only ones that spike my fps is rollinggiant and demogorgan

[austere stirrup]

oh interesting

[vestal vale]

even then, rolling does it for a lil bit then goes back to normal

[austere stirrup]

rolling kinda emulates the coilhead right?

[vestal vale]

sorta

each moon it can switch ais

(if u set it up in config)

[austere stirrup]

oh I see

[vestal vale]

so it can be semi coilhead, reverse coilhead (moves when u look), randomly moves, fuckin non stop chases

[austere stirrup]

it's possible that some targeting pathfinding is running too long, that's an issue in the base game without PathfindingLagFix

[vestal vale]

ye i got lagfix lmao, bracken outside without it kills my frames

[austere stirrup]

yep lol that was one of the things I tested in particular

but each fix is targeted at a specific AI, I might be able to generalize it but it would take a huge amount of work

I've got some utility functions that might enable me to do it now though

[vestal vale]

got mansion on asteroid, so far its runnin smooth

god this moon fuckin scares me lmao

[austere stirrup]

vanilla interiors should have no issues except with dynamic lights

[vestal vale]

never tried dynamic lights

[austere stirrup]

you might see your friends' flashlights through walls occasionally

by dynamic lights I just mean ones that aren't fixed in the world

[vestal vale]

ah

[austere stirrup]

lamps, flashlights, etc

[vestal vale]

what the fuck, nah fuck this moon, i aint testin on it, works enough as is LMFAO

[austere stirrup]

since they're dynamic it'll take a bit more work to calculate their influence and cull them, perhaps with a little performance hit

lol if you're doing testing you should get LethalDevMode (if you don't have AC), makes it a lot easier

[vestal vale]

its not that, the moon has a lot of unique sounds outside, like coilheads running around you

and istg i saw a shadow of a coilhead behind me

[austere stirrup]

I see

[vestal vale]

i turn around, and nothings there

[austere stirrup]

I get used to stuff like that running around with invulnerability

[vestal vale]

lmao

[austere stirrup]

only annoying thing is when a bracken snaps your neck you get locked in the animation, I have to use UnityExplorer to delete them from existence

[vestal vale]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-gauntlet-snap-finger-snap-gif-12502580

i just use diversity, since the bracken doesnt kill you first time it grabs you lmao

annoying havin to run through that obstacle course each time tho

[austere stirrup]

interesting, I only knew about the one that makes it grab you alive and take you to its favorite spot

[vestal vale]

thats snatchin bracken, they work really well together

[austere stirrup]

huh, I would've expected that to conflict with what you're describing

cool

[vestal vale]

diversity adds a lot of stuff that makes the game feel more alive

[austere stirrup]

I might take a look at that then, wouldn't hurt to change things up a bit

[vestal vale]

their next update plans to make a new enemy i believe

so far its been running well

actually helped with the icebound moon

since that one stutters a fair bit

setting the sewers to guarantee spawn, see how bad it is

[spring pawn]

Anyone had flickering / popping with dungeon and sewer interiors while using this / know of settings to resolve that?

[vestal vale]

its a bug that needs to be fixed on scoopys end

@austere stirrup you werent kidding when you said its bad lmfao

[austere stirrup]

working on a hack that will fix it until scoopy can update the interiors to support culling properly, but that update will probably take a bit to go out

using depth culling should allow you to have some form of performance improvement while avoiding the disappearing tiles, but it's certainly not ideal

LethalConfig allows you to switch modes at runtime

[vestal vale]

how do you set up the depth culling? at least till its fixed

not entirely sure how the config works lmfao

@austere stirrup i got no fuckin clue how the config works imma be honest LMAO.

[austere stirrup]

it's one of the options for culling types

it can be changed in-game as well

[vestal vale]

do i just dype "depthculling"

oh, well shit i didnt know that LMAO

[austere stirrup]

specifically "DepthCulling"

next update will change the description to specifically refer to the option values since I know some config editors don't have the enum values to look at

although I might be able to give it a selection if I add more information to the config field actually

[vestal vale]

so were gonna have to use that culling type until either scoopy fixes the interiors, or until you somehow find a work around

[austere stirrup]

I'm working on a workaround right now actually, but it'll be a couple days before it goes out

[vestal vale]

ight, imma keep a close eye on the forum so i dont miss the changelogs for the work around lmao

cuz knowing my ass id miss it

[river tundra]

That sounds terrifying

[vestal vale]

Wesleys moons aint no joke lmao

[valid spoke]

Does this work with solosbodycam?

[spice jackal]

idk probably

but you should use openbodycams instead

[valid spoke]

k thanks

[last venture]

So just so I understand: DepthCulling isn't gonna give as much performance gain as PortalOcclusionCulling, but will work better on some modded interiors for the time being until they receive updates or CullFactory receives workarounds?

[glad condor]

yes

[last venture]

Kk

[austere stirrup]

the performance for one more or the other does vary a little, but for interiors that aren't really small, portal occlusion culling should do better, yeah

[dark elm]

Can the mod make it so that the monitor still shows the farther rooms?

[austere stirrup]

not sure what you mean

is there a monitor that's not showing what it should be?

[last venture]

Mostly asking cuz I have basically every modded interior, so if DepthCulling works then I'll just keep it on that for now, some performance gain is better than none

[austere stirrup]

yeah, that sounds fine, if you keep an eye out here I should have something coming next update to allow you to configure a compatibility mode for specific interiors that have issues with portal sizes

[dark elm]

Like you’ll be on a side that has a exit room that’s on the other side of the wall, but it’s been culled due to being more than the rooms number till culling, and the monitor person won’t know if its connected to your room or if it needs you to go all the way around.

[silver escarp]

Okay so this thing happens all the time in the normal facility dungeon where from a far looking through a door the area has no stairs but they appear when you get closer. The thing is im nit even really that far and its still disappearing. What setting in the config affects that?

[austere stirrup]

oh, you should try 1.7.2, I'm not sure why that would be happening since 1.7.1 is supposed to check for radar map cameras, but the new one should just make everything on the map visible

I'm assuming you're referring to the map

[last venture]

Just tried it out on newest version I believe, DepthCulling caused Sewer to completely vanish

[silver escarp]

If you walk around for a little and scan with right click it fixed for me

[last venture]

Not for me

Now even regular interiors are vanishing

odd

[austere stirrup]

huh..

[last venture]

Probably a mod conflict

I can try sending a log

[austere stirrup]

config would be more useful most likely, but perhaps there's an error, lemme look

[last venture]

Only difference is it's currently none but it was DepthCulling

Changed via LethalConfig

[austere stirrup]

could you switch the "show culling logs" to true and try again?

it might be a conflict, though, so it might be worth sending your profile code

[last venture]

Will do, though fair warning my profile code is beeeg

[austere stirrup]

oh don't worry I noticed lol

[last venture]

Can you enable culling logs in-game or do you have to restart?

[austere stirrup]

it should work in-game

[silver escarp]

Wait you don’t have to restart when changing culling type and stuff

[austere stirrup]

yeah, almost all the options change at runtime

[silver escarp]

I wish every mod was like that

[austere stirrup]

I should probably make a soft dependency to LethalConfig to make it visible which ones need a restart but it's not really a priority atm

[last venture]

I also may try uninstalling Callisto before continuing

Cuz this moon buggy

[austere stirrup]

sure if you think it might be that

[last venture]

Even though the bug happened on March too

[austere stirrup]

was that the moon you went to?

ah

[last venture]

It first happened on Callisto and then continued after that

[austere stirrup]

hmm, I would've hoped/expected it to resolve any issues when you leave and go to a vanilla moon for sure, but it might be worth checking

[last venture]

I'll retest later

I've got a feeling it might be related to the sewer interior as well

Cuz its also got weather desyncs rn

[austere stirrup]

hmm, sewer interior was what I was testing the depth culling changes on, it should be okay

[last venture]

With newest LLL?

[austere stirrup]

1.1.4, looks like it's up to date

[last venture]

Gotcha

Apparently non-hosts also have an "always flooded" bug with the sewer interior

[austere stirrup]

I assume that's unrelated to CullFactory

[last venture]

Alright, friends went to sleep, gonna launch a fresh game and test

Yeah it is

Gonna land with DepthCulling set and try a moon with a modded interior, then one with sewer, then Callisto if it doesn't break

[austere stirrup]

sounds good

logging on?

although it doesn't really print all that much at the moment

[last venture]

Yep, logging turned on

[austere stirrup]

I'll be back in a while, if you can't narrow it down feel free to send a code

[last venture]

Nope, wasn't able to reproduce

Still uninstalling Callisto cuz it has a couple other bugs

018d96f0-488e-d08c-4afc-1ea427200fb0

There's code if you wanna mess around

If you don't want to download 110 mods, don't worry about it, could have been a one-off

😛

[austere stirrup]

curious, lemme know if you see it again

[vestal vale]

@austere stirrup any word from scoopy bout the issues?

[austere stirrup]

I haven't heard anything, no

if anything happens on that front it'll probably be in scoopy's mod thread here

[austere stirrup]

compatibility hack is almost ready though

it won't result in as much performance as is possible with proper information, but it'll still do something and also not cause missing tiles

[fair oyster]

@austere stirrup Hi, I noticed improvements, it's much better :3

But now, because of my build, I suffer from the behavior of RAM, sometimes there is a lot of it, sometimes there is not enough

It's as if the game doesn't understand what to store in it and what not

After Titan I load into Exp. And the Fps is as much as on titanium when fully loaded and other crap 😂

[austere stirrup]

if it's a RAM issue there's not much one mod can do most likely

if you can narrow it down to one or a few culprits that would be the only way to fix it

as far as I know, that shouldn't be a CullFactory issue

[fair oyster]

I think the problem is in LE and LLL

They mess up my memory in some strange way

• mods for custom loot and moons

[cerulean gate]

depth culling is looking worse than portal occlusion culling on scoopy's sewers 💀

[austere stirrup]

how so?

[cerulean gate]

maybe i should've exited the facility and entered again but forgot to do that but here i'll send screenshots

it don't think it happens always tho

this was this depth culling

this with portal occlusion

it was the same when i went down the ladder

[cerulean gate]

sometimes depth culling looks fine in the whole dungeon and sometimes this happens

[austere stirrup]

if that's in the starting room, it wouldn't surprise me if you notice issues there

[cerulean gate]

.

the whole dungeon was like that

[austere stirrup]

is there any angle where you can actually see the room? without knowing where you are and what the seed is there's not much I can do

the seed should show up on the log, but generation also depends on the map

if it only happens in a particular room though, it's possible it's just another messed up bounding box

[cerulean gate]

idk i didn't do much testing and i closed the game 😅

[austere stirrup]

well that's kinda unfortunate

[cerulean gate]

i can send the log but hopefully no mod deletes important logs

the moon was vow and dungeon was sewers

[austere stirrup]

👍 I'll take a look later

hopefully I can find the spot

how far in were you when you encountered this?

[cerulean gate]

i entered the facility, switched back and forth between culling types, went down the stairs and ran a little bit down the sewers, switched back and forth between culling types, stepped on teleporter trap and it teleported me somewhere deep into the sewers, switched back and forth between culling types. depth culling was like that always

[austere stirrup]

wait, you mean to say that none of the rooms were ever visible with depth culling?

[glass juniper]

if you walk further in you should see the rooms just fine

but yes all the rooms should be invisible when you enter since depth culling can't find any tiles that you're in

this should be fixed in the next update

[uneven tiger]

Me and my friends were facing the flooded weather desync and every time it was the sewer interior

018d9964-747d-46e1-7033-0657df82c3b5

this is our modlist

also i dont think its cull factory, we dont have it

[last venture]

Yeah I wasn't blaming CullFactory

[uneven tiger]

I also was just searching for stuff and wanted to make sure i wasnt blaming cull, basically i disabled the sewer tileset in the config and going to hope that fixes allt he issues

[silver escarp]

Okay so this thing happens all the time in the normal facility dungeon where from a far looking through a door the area has no stairs but they appear when you get closer. The thing is im nit even really that far and its still disappearing. What setting in the config affects that?

[vestal vale]

@austere stirrup found a pretty big bug

mansion interior doesnt work with depth culling

with depth culling

without

[austere stirrup]

is that the main entrance?

[vestal vale]

yep

[austere stirrup]

ah ok

curious, hold on, lemme see if i can repro

fumiko said he found an issue with depth culling before, but I'm not sure what it was, could be related

do you happen to have a seed for that map?

[vestal vale]

if it helps in anyway, i was on the icebound moon from generic moons

[austere stirrup]

oh

hmm

might need logs and a code then

looks like rend is fine for me

[vestal vale]

the logs (i think, never done this before lmao)

018d9a07-aaf2-14db-5d95-c84cf31c3b69 the code (thunderstore)

[austere stirrup]

ah damn, no mention of the seed in the logs

I'll see if it just happens if I go to that map

I gotta add a non-optional log message that prints the seed with CullFactory installed

[vestal vale]

sorry i couldnt be much help

mansion worked fine on acidir from wesleys moons i believe? so it might just be an icebound thing

[austere stirrup]

hmm, I might have reproduced the error, but I'm not sure if it's the same one

I had exception spam that doesn't show up in your logs

I'll have to look into it in a bit though, todo list is growing

[cerulean gate]

yes

it only happened that time

it appears sometimes depth culling doesn't work randomly

[austere stirrup]

could be related to theaddictivegamer's issue too then

interesting

[austere stirrup]

just checked this, it's a vanilla issue

the stairs have a LOD group that causes them not to render if they're more than a certain distance away

[austere stirrup]

it looks like HDLethalCompany removes that LOD group if you care to use that

you can disable the resolution change

[austere stirrup]

@vestal vale found the issue, it would only happen after going inside one interior with depth culling on and then going to another moon after

should have a fix in the next version

[vestal vale]

Gotcha. So for now dont switch depth versions for different interiors?,

[austere stirrup]

worth noting that the next version will also have the compatibility hack for occlusion culling, with a default to use the dumb mode on Scoopy's, so it shouldn't be necessary to switch to depth

[austere stirrup]

nono, the issue is just if you've been to a moon once with depth culling on and then go to another and have depth culling on at all, it'll error spam

well actually, I think it should only happen if you quit out while inside an interior with depth culling on

[vestal vale]

gotcha, still strange he completely blanks ur question in his forum lmao

[austere stirrup]

yeah not sure why, but it's fine

it'll work now

just performance won't be as good as it could be

[vestal vale]

as long as it boosts performance, im happy lol

[silver escarp]

So have to get rid of HD lethal completely or just disable res change

[austere stirrup]

I was saying you would want to have HDLethalCompany if you don't want to see the stairways disappearing

do you have it already and they still disappear?

[silver escarp]

Yes

[austere stirrup]

I think it should at least a little, the conservative portals are still going to restrict the frustums decently

[austere stirrup]

okay that's odd

if you can get a recording from start of game to that happening I can look at it

that way I can see the seed of the interior and try to reproduce

[silver escarp]

alr I’ll do that rn

[vestal vale]

i use hdcompany, havent noticed any big issues, tried it without it too

[austere stirrup]

oh wait

@silver escarp it only removes the LOD group at the lowest LOD setting in the HDLethalCompany config, so yeah, it would happen with default settings

[silver escarp]

so LOD has to be on 2 instead of 1

[austere stirrup]

yeah, but that will lower your framerate a tiny bit potentially

[silver escarp]

you would think you woukld only get this issue with LOD 0 not LOD 1

since default is LOD 1 which is vanilla

[austere stirrup]

@vestal vale in case you want to test it out, this should fix the invisible tiles on depth culling, otherwise this will go out in the next update which might be tonight sometime

that also includes the portal size fallback for Scoopy's interiors

[austere stirrup]

HDLethalCompany disables the LODGroup specifically because lowering the LOD scaling means that the stairs visibly pop out of existence at a closer range

[vestal vale]

thank ye, will try and set it up since it needs to manually be set up. and if i have free time lmfao

[austere stirrup]

so when that value is 0, it happens quite close and visibly

on 2 it should usually not be very visible

[austere stirrup]

yeah, no worries if not, I'm fairly confident that was the issue you encountered

[vestal vale]

will try to set it up, doin it manually is a pain in my ass lol,

[austere stirrup]

do you know about the import local mod option in Settings -> Profile?

it shouldn't be difficult to do that way

and if you don't want to mess up your mod list's order, you can enter the author's name (fumiko in this case) and it'll just replace the existing one in your list

[vestal vale]

hmm could try it, if i dont have free time, ill test out the update when its out on thunderstore, and report back, since you said it might come out tonight sometime lmao

[austere stirrup]

[vestal vale]

next update just completely makes the entire game invisible LMAO

[austere stirrup]

I hope not lol

if you hit me with that after it goes out you'll genuinely jumpscare me

[vestal vale]

lol, i just send a screenshot of the ship being unloaded

[oak plover]

Ooooh can you elaborate on this a bit more? I use HDLethalCompany for a res bump to 720p, does it cause pop in or things disappearing? I use CullFactory with portal occlusion culling also

[austere stirrup]

no, it won't cause anything new vs vanilla

when the LOD setting in HDLethalCompany is set to 0, it modifies the LOD of the two-story stairs prefab in the factory interior to prevent it from popping in at a distance

[oak plover]

Oh I don't change the LOD setting actually, I leave it vanilla, thanks I forgot about that setting and thought it was just related to the resolution

[austere stirrup]

yeah, I wouldn't really bother changing it either, I don't think it's likely to yield much of a performance improvement

unless you have an interior with an absolutely ridiculous amount of spawned items perhaps

perhaps outdoors it'll help with reducing the frame drops from late-run item counts on the ship, but I think that requires more drastic measures

I'm thinking of making a mod that merges similar items Minecraft-style, but that would be very tricky to achieve

[oak plover]

You've given me something to test with LOD actually, I notice with any mod that adjusts the level of zoom with the terminal map camera, things like the stairs on the interior disappear, I assume its when the zoom level reaches a certain height, the silo just to the left when leaving the ship on Experimentation does the same and is an easy spot to test, wonder if a higher LOD fixes that

I noticed you've got a zoom feature in your two radar maps mod, could test with that too

[austere stirrup]

huh, I think I've always seen the stairs be invisible on the map actually

unless I've got a default zoom higher than vanilla, which is possible

maybe I forgor to reset it

preview of my upcoming changes:

Added

• A compatibility mode for interiors that have incorrect portal sizes

Fixed

• Scoopys Variety Mod's interiors would appear invisible at certain distances or angles with portal occlusion culling, this is fixed by using the compatibility mode mentioned above by default
• Shadows would flicker on Scarlet Devil Mansion with portal occlusion culling
• Using depth culling could cause error spam that would leave the interior entirely invisible

not sure if fumiko has some more cooking, but hopefully these should resolve all the issues I've heard about so far (except if I forgot some)

[last venture]

[old bison]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/GiGaGon/ScrapMerging/ like this?

[austere stirrup]

perhaps, that mod's description isn't very...descriptive lol

it's not really clear on what it actually does, so I'm not sure if it would help with performance at all

[old bison]

I think it turns multiple of the same item into one with the value added up

[austere stirrup]

hmm, if there's no way to split them up again, then that's not what I was thinking of

I want it to not affect gameplay at all if possible

[old bison]

There's this mod too

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Ozone/Cabinet_Item_Storage/

place scrap items into the cabinet and can take them out later