Lethal Level Loader [Custom Content Loading API]

[zenith flax]

No

[little maple]

or at least has it removed the parts it stole

[slim wind]

no

[little maple]

huh

what

but its against the eula of thunderstore isnt it?

[slim wind]

the copy-pasted stuff has been copy-pasted to different mod

[little maple]

bruh

[zenith flax]

it is not

[fleet badger]

i think u have conflict with other mods

[slim wind]

so right now there's 2 instead of 1

[zenith flax]

by default the thunderstore only cares about legal infringement, it has no code of conduct

[little maple]

damn

[zenith flax]

because lethallevelloader is an open source community api.. i had a pretty lenient license

[little maple]

wow that's pathetic

from advanced company

[slim wind]

and it's ongoing for 2 weeks now 😟

[fleet badger]

i saw its new update that it said had removed the fork of LLL

[zenith flax]

it had moved the fork of LLL

[slim wind]

sorry to break it to you, no

[little maple]

the audacity of copying it anyways was already a bad move but saying they removed it while just moving it is pathetic

[slim wind]

Removed LLL fork from AdvancedCompany and added it to its own mod so you can decide to use different level loaders.

the word removed is doing such heavy lifting there lmao

[little maple]

wait

[fleet badger]

oic, thats pretty bad move, stole things from others and use words to pretend they already remove those things

[little maple]

what was this one mod with the watermark on the title screen and its creator going nuts about another mod removing that

was that ac?

or another mod I am not sure

[zenith flax]

Ko-Fi link attached to AdvancedLevelLoader btw 😄

[zenith flax]

No that's what initially sparked this situation

[little maple]

jesus christ

[slim wind]

on thunderstore it's attached to a team (so it wasn't added to that specifically), but it's still ballsy to do that

[little maple]

common human sense seems to be rare nowadays

sorry you have to experience that

[fleet badger]

hi, I have tried to adjusted the weight of dungeon in each map, i want to make the vanilla mansion in some maps 0 but then i check the simulate it doesnt change at all. Is this a bug?

[eager zephyr]

I don't understand what TS is supposed to do. He forked version that was MIT. Isn't that "fair game", even if morally wrong in this case?

[zenith flax]

Pretty much every notable online platform doesn't abide by strictly objective rules

He harassed and threatened other developers then exploited the good nature of an open source community

TS is supposed to prevent this from happening

Unless they want every mod developer to have some super protective and bad faith license

[fleet badger]

The simulate of asteroid, the mansion still has 12.9%

[eager zephyr]

So this is purely about the person then? If anyone else did the fork like that it would've not been a problem?

[strange edge]

i've noticed that vanilla interiors (facility and mansion) can't have their rarities lowered from whatever the map has as default, only raised

idk if there's a way to get around it, I tried practically everything and couldnt get it to work

[fleet badger]

oic, thanks for the explanation

[strange edge]

np! I personally had to inflate all of my structure spawn numbers so that mansion at its default wouldnt be very common

[eager zephyr]

I get your frustration and fully support you taking care of yourself first and foremost. But this combined with LE being in a weird spot with Holo trying to find a successor is a very difficult situation for any level creator.

[zenith flax]

Yes this is about someone who harassed me, suggested they were going to take legal action against me and then took my entire work with my active dissaproval, stamped his own name on it and is fine having his donation link attached to it

[fleet badger]

can u share ur number? i want to take reference from ur setting🙏🏻

[zenith flax]

Then any level creator should reach out to the Thunderstore staff if they care that much

I don't know what else to say

[strange edge]

so an example I have is that in my modpack, I wanted Dine to use facility and other interiors more often instead of Mansion, so basic Mansion on Dine has a weight rarity of 300, so I just inflated all of the other values up, which makes this objectively kind of funny weight value for facility

[fleet badger]

ic, thank you so much! i thought maybe 500 is enough until i saw ur config lol

[strange edge]

I use an excel spreadsheet to effectively just simulate the interiors rarities, and this is my Dine one, so you can see how much of an impact it has

usually I have interiors that arent relevant to the map on a 1 spawn weight so that they have a VERY slim chance of appearing, but I had to even inflate those so they had a chance

like this is march lmao

[fleet badger]

wow, so professional

[fleet badger]

how do u set the formula on probability? i dunt really understand the relationship of the numbers to the probability as the default is 300

[zenith flax]

theres no reason 300 is default

it just is

[strange edge]

ikr

its a weirdly arbitrary number

also I agree heavily with Batby in the sense of like, it's kind of up to the community to foster an environment for all mod creators to feel accepted in, if Batby had their entire work practically ripped from them, and us as a community just expect them to just trudge on like nothing happened, its not really fair on Batby, we need to make it known that the kind of thing Potato did was really shitty and get on Thunderstore's ass about it

or at least that's my two cents on the matter

its gonna suck for moon creators if the tools we're using suddenly disappear, but we either need to support the devs of those tools so they can work on them effectively or suffer and wait till someone else picks up the mantle, and I sure as hell would rather support someone xD

[eager zephyr]

So I guess we all just have to scream at TS staff to ban Potatoe then. 🤷

[strange edge]

honestly banning him is probably not the solution, but at least getting AdvancedLevelLoader pulled would be a solid step imo

[reef perch]

Is there any "how to start" tutorial available to create a moon 🥹

[strange edge]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1210653206225363018

[reef perch]

Thanks a bunch!

[zenith flax]

If by we you mean established authors and scream you mean reach out with a civil opinion if you think strongly about it**

[fleet badger]

sorry just want to ask, why dunt u just type 0 so that dungeons wont appear on that moon?

[eager zephyr]

Haven't you been doing this already all this time?

[zenith flax]

Yes?

[strange edge]

oh thats mostly because I do want a very small chance of them appearing xD

in the same way you can technically get Mansion to spawn on Experimentation in vanilla

it's just an INCREDIBLY small chance

[zenith flax]

I agree, but if a code of conduct/community guidelines was established earlier though he would have been banned for the blatant harassment and threats though

[strange edge]

yeah thats true

[eager zephyr]

Does it work?

[slim wind]

but now, he updated his mod after guidelines have been established, so it's all fair game

[zenith flax]

Take a guess

[eager zephyr]

Yeah.

[zenith flax]

Only under the assumption he’s seen those rules

Unfortunately this situation really only exists because the rules he’s breaking are written in his own blood

I guess it’s my blood in that metaphor idk it’s hot

[eager zephyr]

Isn't another issue the fact that all this went down here, which is not really a "direct representation" of TS?

[zenith flax]

No

[slim wind]

well, he's banned from there for his [redacted], but this discord is clearly linked on every Thunderstore's page navbar, so it's not hidden

[zenith flax]

Doesn’t really matter, based on what the staff have said their not going to punish him for rules that didn’t exist at the time and the logical extension of that is you can’t punish someone for rules they can’t access

However they want to communicate that is above my paygrade

[slim wind]

they can't access because of their own actions, so for TS there should be no difference in that regard: they either say "he's not there, so those rules don't apply to him" or "we need to unban him so he can see the rules" - I don't see either happening

[zenith flax]

Or they can be directly warned or sent them

Or it is hosted on the Thunderstore, which really should have a code of conduct in the first place

[slim wind]

😕 we'll see how it goes

[old pebble]

How do we report to the Thunderstore staff

[eager zephyr]

https://pages.thunderstore.io/p/contact-us

[old pebble]

I'm tired of hearing about this guy and his blatant disrespect, i wouldn't trust a single mod coming from him, he's such a loose cannon that I wouldn't be surprised if he started uploading Trojans to TS

[remote quail]

that's honestly just weird

like the only reason i would see LLL being bundled into AC would be bc it lowers the mod count

or it makes the mod more customizable

which like eh i guess??

but now the fact that it's just an entire different mod

like, why not just install LLL???

it's not like it's incompatible

nor that they added any other features to it that LLL doesn't have

sooooooooo what's the point?

[old pebble]

I'm really peeved, my stuff relies on LLL I have stake in this too, as do many others here

@zenith flax you're incredibly talented and you made something that has made the mod scene in this game better. Thanks to LLL I've gotten out of a burnout for personal projects that I had for over a year.

You're also incredibly helpful and patient towards newcomers and you've been very nice and friendly. I always feel like I can ask for help from you without judgement.

The community is worse off without you, because then we'd be stuck with he who shall not be named.

[wild wing]

he did have a Application.quit() in his code when he checked for a watermark remover in his mod, guess that was a lil taste

[old pebble]

3 million+ downloads and having your work featured in almost every modding video is nothing to sneeze at and definitely something to be proud of and is totally portfolio worthy. I ask from the bottom of my heart that you keep your head held high and stick with us for a little while longer

[lament nebula]

afaik will be incompatible as of the next LLL update

[remote quail]

how?

[lament nebula]

License change from Batby

So legally Potatoe couldn’t use it unless he also changed his license

[remote quail]

oh no i mean LLL isn't incompatible with AC

[lament nebula]

Yes

[remote quail]

not that the stupid ALL isn't

[lament nebula]

LLL will be aa of its next update

LLL is changing its license

And with the license change it will be incompatible with AC

Due to legal reasons

[remote quail]

?

wait

okay so people just

can't use LLL and AC together

because the license changed?

[lament nebula]

As of the next update, unless AC also changed its license (which it has no plans to as Potatoe plans to use some of his networking code in it in a future game of his), AC will legally be unable to touch LLL while the game is running

That’s why the fork was made

So people could still use LLL with AC

Potatoe has said multiple times since he originally released it that if this wasn’t the case/if Batby made them compatible again, he would completely take his fork down if requested

[remote quail]

ah so

LLL and AC wouldn't conflict with each other

but neither could interact with anything that they offer each other

[lament nebula]

Yes, and those changes are completely from LLLs side

[remote quail]

alright i see

thanks

[lament nebula]

So Potatoe forked a version that had the old license so they could be compatible

[lament nebula]

np! happy to help

[young acorn]

for some reason, i have a variety of issues with my moon that only happen when in the actual game and not testing in the editor.
1: only locusts will spawn. not circuit bees or manticoils
2: locusts are invisible and don't move
3: nothing spawns inside
4: eyeless dogs do spawn but stay still and don't do anything even when sprinting around and touching them

[calm eagle]

have you baked your navmesh?

[young acorn]

i've made sure to

i suspect it's maybe an issue with having a bunch of spawnable outside objects, which i think massively increased the loading time

[calm eagle]

for 4, that indicates that it's completely lacking its AI, do you have any error logs for it?

[young acorn]

i don't see any but maybe i'm missing something, here's the full log output

[calm eagle]

oh, and for your outside nodes, they're tagged OutsideAINode (I think that's the tag, you just don't want the one that's specifically "AINode")?

[young acorn]

they're all tagged that, yeah

[calm eagle]

can I see your selectable level spawn lists?

I think I know the issue, but I need to verify

[young acorn]

not sure what this is

[calm eagle]

in your Selectable Level asset you made where you assigned enemy spawn weights

[young acorn]

this should be it i think?

[calm eagle]

Can you screenshot the spawn lists instead?

[young acorn]

sure

[calm eagle]

Yep, that's the issue. If you want to use an enemy in more than one spawn list, you'll have to duplicate its EnemyType asset. I recommend keeping the duplicates in a folder with your mod, labeled something like "SierraEnemyCopies" or w/e you want to name it.
Every instance of an enemy type in your spawn lists needs to be unique due to the way LLL loads assets from lethalbundles

If you end up making another moon in the same project, all of the assets referenced in its Selectable Level will also need to be unique: map objects (both the outside random spawns and the turret/mine list), enemies, planet prefab, etc.

[young acorn]

i sure do love spaghetti code. do you have a tutorial for how to do this?

[calm eagle]

From memory:
EnemyType assets can be found in Assets/LethalCompany/Game/ScriptableObjects
Copy all of the EnemyType assets, paste them into a new folder in your mod folder. Label it "SierraEnemyCopies"
Any place in your Sierra Selectable Level file where you want to use an enemy type a second time, take it from SierraEnemyCopies, not the LC/Game folders

[young acorn]

if i had two moons and one used an enemy, would i have to make a copy folder if i wanted to use that enemy on another moon?

[calm eagle]

Correct

[young acorn]

[calm eagle]

Every instance has to be unique

[gaunt coyote]

Okay now I'm confused as what to use in my modpack, theres original LLL, patched LLL, redacted LLL... but all the moons/interiors have original LLL referenced as a dependancy

[slim wind]

you install normal LLL, disable it (and only it), install LLLFixed

and you're done

ignore modman screaming at you during this and you'll be good

[gaunt coyote]

Aight, I'll have to find a way to disable original for users who download the pack fresh

This is how I have it for sharing codes, but will need a workaround

[rich aurora]

I believe if you do disable a mod then you share the file/code associated with the profile, the said disabled mod will still show up for the other users too as disabled

[gaunt coyote]

Ya for sure, but that doesn't help people who download the pack from thunderstore, requires additional instructions

[rich aurora]

I've never uploaded a modpack to Thunderstore so wouldn't know :s

[young acorn]

what happens if a moon uses the same enemy twice but already has copies

[calm eagle]

Make another copy \o/
Solace has two copies of Spore Lizard assets

[young acorn]

where do i put the copy of the copy

[calm eagle]

It's really your choice, for your own organization, but my recommendation is inside of "SierraEnemyCopies" just make a folder called "Outside" and stick the copy there

[young acorn]

if i reach five moons it's gonna be a nightmare setting spawns because there's gonna be so many copies of the same thing

[calm eagle]

That's why proper folder naming is important 🤭

[young acorn]

proper folder names don't matter if there's 10 sandworms and to check the folders i have to click on every single one of them

[kindred bramble]

Isn't the whole point of owning a service, being able to say "as owner we have the rights to change how we do things at any time" so make a rule change and nail him to the damn wall already. I am surprised that this issue was not resolved by now.

[young acorn]

also, what happens if i place an [enemy].asset in my map instead of in the spawn list?

[lament nebula]

The issue is that these rules didn’t exist at the time the behaviour occurred

[young acorn]

wait a second i can customize these enemy asset files

[lament nebula]

He’s been banned from the server

[kindred bramble]

It does not matter. Like it really does not.

[young acorn]

i can customize enemies per-moon, nothing good will come from this

[lament nebula]

That’s for Thunderstore staff to decide, which they already have.

The rules of a discord server don’t dictate rules of an entire platform

[slim wind]

they are the de facto LC site section rules

[lament nebula]

He hasn’t broken the rules for Thunderstore stuff though

Batby even admitted as such himself

[kindred bramble]

It is going to cause the community more damage to let this go on. Pick either Potatopet or @zenith flax. Support one, nuke the other, set a standard to go forward on. We just need to do Something and move on with this. This is rediculous. It is not right to anyone to keep up this farce. DO SOMETHING.

[slim wind]

not when uploading his LLL fork for the first time (cause rules didn't exist back then), but he has broken them now, by uploading a mod after the rules went public

[lament nebula]

Choosing “sides” as a grown adult is childish. The world isn’t black and white.

[slim wind]

although i understand the sentiment, it's not that simple 😕

[kindred bramble]

Look as a company you choose who gets to operate on your platform.

[lament nebula]

And they chose to allow Potatoe on TS

[kindred bramble]

Thunderstore allowing this to happen means they defacto support these actions. They are allowing them to happen.

[lament nebula]

afaik the only “rule” he’s breaking is the suggestion to not upload a fork without permission

[slim wind]

well, that's the issue: did he break any rules by uploading his fork for the first time? no - no action can be taken, no grounds

right now it's different

[kindred bramble]

Yeah there are ways arround everything.

[lament nebula]

I gotta go get ready for work but I’ll return later

[kindred bramble]

Take care have a good day at work!

[lament nebula]

Thanks! You have a good day as well.

[little maple]

wtf

but did they ever say why they must keep the logo?

like it's not essential for the game to run so I don't really get why this remove-the-logo stuff created such drama

[slim wind]

"i'm personally offended by that"

[young acorn]

whenever i try to build my moon after adding the enemy copies causes this to pop up. try again does nothing, cancel makes it not build, force quit crashes unity

@calm eagle do you know anything about this?

[vagrant sundial]

this error happens when 2 of the same type assets share the same name. So 2 textures named "tree" for example

[calm eagle]

this is correct

[young acorn]

but i don't know anything that has the same name

[calm eagle]

putting a prefab will just have it present when it the level is loaded, it's what I do with the two spore lizards on Solace

[jagged arch]

Open up the asset bundle browser and look at the assets included to see what names are the same

[calm eagle]

I've also been cautioned against using modified vanilla enemytype files in the past, but idk if that's still the case or not

actually, have you already modified some? bc that might be what's causing the issue there

[young acorn]

will it spawn where i put the prefab?

[calm eagle]

yes

[young acorn]

haven't touched them, but i think i have them with the same name as the vanilla enemytypes

[calm eagle]

oh I have a new idea

try marking just the Extended Level and scene for bundling

[young acorn]

do i unmark something for bundling by setting the assetbundle to none on it?

[calm eagle]

yes

[young acorn]

also, is there any way i can set a moon to always have dustclouds when it doesn't have another weather?

[slim wind]

easily

[calm eagle]

just replace mild weather with dust clouds (though do dust clouds actually do anything?)

[young acorn]

i can replace mild weather?

[slim wind]

selectableLevel.currentWeather = LevelWeatherType.DustClouds

if you want to replace None make an if before that

[calm eagle]

in the selectable level asset you can choose what weather types a moon has

[young acorn]

is that not just for random weathers?

[calm eagle]

mild = no weather, so it's still technically a random weather effect

[slim wind]

real talk: can a moon have no clear weather?

[calm eagle]

I believe so

[slim wind]

cause my mod works on an assumption that this case is impossible

[slim wind]

fuck

frankly i don't care

[young acorn]

i have it set to have two random weathers (rainy and eclipsed) but it's still been clear when i've tested it

[slim wind]

vanilla weather calculation is a joke

[calm eagle]

hm
well I'm certainly no expert on the weather system lol

[slim wind]

so it seems like there's no way to avoid clear weather (unless you're planning to do some weathersystem shenanigans yourself)

[young acorn]

do i use override weather/current weather?

[slim wind]

you can override, but only for one type

so either Rainy or Eclipsed

[young acorn]

so override overrides all weather?

[calm eagle]

try replacing "current weather" with something, I think that might determine the starting weather? And then land/take-off a few times and see if clear weather pops up

[slim wind]

override skips weather selection as a whole

[calm eagle]

also, make sure your testing environment has as few mods as possible. My testing environment includes the max sounds fix, more starting credits, infinite sprint, and dancetools

[slim wind]

also: remove WeatherTweaks for your testings

cause i'm doing stuff with slightly different assumptions than vanilla

[young acorn]

mine just has hookgen, bepinex, lethallib, LLL, freecammer, viewextension, starlanceraifix (:D), dancetools and aeioucompany (i plan to test with a friend and i use text chat)

[young acorn]

dancetools has a setcredits command, you don't need more starting credits

[calm eagle]

it's more convenient tbh

I don't have to type setcredits every time I load in

[young acorn]

🦩

[calm eagle]

look, I've done a lot of testing, I've shaved off as much time as possible lol

[young acorn]

while it builds and i see if it's still broken, how do i make the enemies into prefabs? currently they're .assets and don't seem to be able to be placed

IT WORKS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[slim wind]

let's goooooooooo

[lament nebula]

So long story short I had to call in sick.

[slim wind]

there's always more important company

[calm eagle]

Assets/LethalCompany/Game/Prefabs/EnemyType

[young acorn]

will these break if i don't make copies of them

[calm eagle]

nope, you can put as many as you want from there, it's scene data at that point

[sage cradle]

is there any solutions to dungeon desyncs yet?

we have matching profiles in r2modman, but some players has different dungeons, completely desynced from others

even this fix doesn't help anymore https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Refract/LethalLevelLoaderFixed/

still happens from time to time

[royal yacht]

you can delete the config before starting the game everytime for every client aka every person

thats the only other fix ik

[sage cradle]

this is really sad and game-breaking

[young acorn]

how do i add ambience to my moon? it is a bit odd being completely silent

[weary apex]

wait

[young acorn]

alright then what

[weary apex]

create Ambience

[young acorn]

is there any triggers i have to add to get this to play or

[weary apex]

Yes, there is

[young acorn]

this is very helpful thank you

[weary apex]

These purple triggers are responsible for the wind

[young acorn]

there is no EnemyType prefab folder, just EnemyAI

[calm eagle]

yea that

[young acorn]

oh

[young acorn]

for some reason my terrain is shiny when it's supposed to be sand

[sage cradle]

is there any known previous version without this interior desync bug?

it's driving me crazy tbh

[slim wind]

some mod must've amplified the error rate dramatically

cause the code's still from LLL's latest major release

[sage cradle]

yeah, it might be true, but i'm only using custom dungeons, not even moons

maybe it's time to decimate them one by one each day and see if it helps

[zenith flax]

thanks everyone for the support while I was asleep 💖

[zenith flax]

I thought so too but I think it’s just because so many new moons and dungeons have released since 1.1.0

it increases the chance of it occuring

[slim wind]

suffering from success basically

[zenith flax]

https://tenor.com/view/dj-khaled-wind-blowing-dj-khaled-dj-khaled-in-car-gif-2411084198352515994

tldr LLL slides and falls on its face under the assumption two identical modpacks would load files async in the same order

So the actual level and dungeon arrays can be unsynced

[sage cradle]

sometimes it gets even weirder for desynced people, for example they have wrong dungeon but doors from host dungeon

[zenith flax]

the fuck

[slim wind]

OH GOD YES!!!

[zenith flax]

ok no that’s someone else then

[slim wind]

the fuck i've seen yesterday

[zenith flax]

I’m free from that one I think

[slim wind]

this

[sage cradle]

yep, i've never seen it myself cause i'm always hosting, but my friends told me that they see "wrong doors"

when they was desynced

[slim wind]

that screenshot came back in my nightmares

[sage cradle]

actually

[slim wind]

what if everything was slightly wrong?

[sage cradle]

here

it seems that they saved screenshot

[slim wind]

bruuuuuuh

[sage cradle]

i can even see part of correct dungeon over the wrong one

dark stone with door is correct one

from scoopy's interiors

and hospital is wrong one

and floating vent, yeah

[lament nebula]

GOOD LORD THE DESYNCS

That’s freaking wild

I’ve never had anything like that

[slim wind]

this is the future's preview 👀

[lament nebula]

Admittedly I also almost always host

[topaz prism]

wtf

[sage cradle]

it's always good on host

[lament nebula]

I have the speedy internet and stronk pc

[sage cradle]

it's other players that suffer

[lament nebula]

But even when I don’t host I’ve never gotten that

God the last two are terrifying lol

Adds to the spook

[sage cradle]

so, yeah, i'm not even sure how it's possible for the game to load two different dungeons at once and mix them up

[topaz prism]

I find interesting that it spawned the hospital room except for the networked prefabs

[sage cradle]

hmm

maybe networked prefabs are the only things that correctly synced with the host?

[topaz prism]

Looks like it. Difficult to see in the screenshot but I'm feeling it spawned the Hospital dungeon but with the Scoopy's networked prefabs. That vent and door is from scoopy's and the room is from my mod, but my mod is missing the networked door at the reception

[sage cradle]

scoopy was the correct one at the moment

on host

[zenith flax]

OH

Hm

[sage cradle]

but few other players suddenly got hospital

[zenith flax]

I might know why this is then

[topaz prism]

Glad to help x)

[slim wind]

let's gooo 🔥🔥

[zenith flax]

Maybe…?

It would be stupid if i was right

Llllfixed should fix it

[sage cradle]

nah, using lllfixed but still got desyncs today

[slim wind]

me too

[zenith flax]

Well im out of options

[slim wind]

For me the desync happened only for all people who joined the lobby in orbit (late) - we had 2 people reconnect because of issues, they joined, we started and they had the exact same set of wrong interior+prefabs

[sage cradle]

yes, today 2 latejoined friends got the desync

until i rehosted

[zenith flax]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-blink-big-eyes-short-gif-gif-27595067

[sage cradle]

not sure if it's always the case, but late joining increase probability of that happening for sure

[slim wind]

so it's connected to the initial lobby sync? (if such thing exists)

[zenith flax]

It kind of exists

Ohhh

Hm

Might have an idea but idk

[unique geode]

LLLFixed should fix this, as far as I'm aware the only interior that desyncs when using it is Office but that is on Office's end

[sage cradle]

unfortunately, it's not

got desyncs today, and not on the office map

[unique geode]

I've not had any interior desyncs personally 😦

[sage cradle]

we played fine until 2 friends latejoined, then it was instantly desynced for them when we landed

also, do you mean office causes desyncs even if it's not loaded?

or only if it's current dungeon

[unique geode]

I think when it's the current interior but we did have some desyncs with people being unable to pick up stuff sometimes after I tried adding it to my pack

so I got rid of it

[sage cradle]

interesting

maybe i'll try playing without office tomorrow and see if something changes

[unique geode]

That could have been a weird conflict with LateCompany though cus I swapped from LobbyControl to LateCompany yesterday to avoid the unknown name issue cus I did a big 200 follower stream and I wanted to not deal with that XD

Idk for sure however

[sage cradle]

i'm using lobbycontrol right now, not latecompany

still got desyncs

[unique geode]

Yeah LobbyControl is better, and fixes mostly vanilla desync issues

So anything that happens from mods will happen from mods

[sage cradle]

but unfortunately it doesn't fix "player in the wall" bug

[unique geode]

Idek how [Redacted] fixed that one

[sage cradle]

when two players join roughly at the same time - one of them will end up in the ship wall

[unique geode]

Yeah

[lament nebula]

Yeah idk how Voldemort did it either

[unique geode]

LOL

[lament nebula]

lmao

[unique geode]

TwoRadarMaps is essential if you don't want radar names to become desynced btw

[sage cradle]

i think that evil wizard was using some sort of queue for processing joining players

[unique geode]

That will fix that issue no matter what late join mod you use

Cus that bug is vanilla, idek how Zaggy fixed it

[lament nebula]

Am I just really lucky that nobody ever has desync issues when I play (outside of people installing my pack wrong)

I swear it seems like everyone has them and I’m just here like

[unique geode]

I mean what late join mod are you using?

[lament nebula]

AC

[unique geode]

Ah [Redacted]

Yeah that one never gave me desyncs either but I refuse to use it now.

[sage cradle]

nah, i have tenfold many issues with redacted even before all that stuff

[lament nebula]

I guess there was a reason it was advertised as the most stable lobby mod

[sage cradle]

now i totally refuse to use it

[unique geode]

Dev is a pos and I want nothing to do with it

[lament nebula]

Whatever that reason is, is a mystery

[slim wind]

oooh, that's interesting

[lament nebula]

eh, I just wanna play viddy with my frens

[unique geode]

Well you'll also like to know then that [Redacted] reduces game performance cus of it's bloat

[lament nebula]

Oh I’m good I have a good PC

[unique geode]

I do too

[lament nebula]

It’s why I always host

[unique geode]

and I still noticed it after I got rid of it

[sage cradle]

i have 5800x3d and 3070

more than enough

and my fps was pretty low with redacted, and stable 120 without it

so it's a no-no for me

[unique geode]

I have a 12900k and a 3060 😆

[lament nebula]

Ryzen 7 5700G, 32GB DDR4 RAM, and an RTX 3070

[unique geode]

32gb of DDR4 ram as well

[slim wind]

and I'm poor 🙃

[lament nebula]

For video editing, I assume?

[lament nebula]

I got mine for school stuff

[sage cradle]

also, i'm not ready to use mods from unstable people, because who knows what kind of code will be there next time

[unique geode]

I wish I knew how to do video editing

😦

[unique geode]

Yep

[lament nebula]

There’s like to reason to have this much ram unless specialized

[sage cradle]

i don't want to decompile each update and check what's changed

[lament nebula]

You can just look at the git

[slim wind]

Remember how IntroTweaks got pulled completely? Fun times

[unique geode]

It was for future proofing, cus 32gb is starting to become the standard

[sage cradle]

ah, it's closed source

so no git

[unique geode]

especially for streaming and stuff

[slim wind]

it's not updated very much

[lament nebula]

The git? I was looking at it like yesterday

[lament nebula]

Ahh

[slim wind]

https://github.com/FluffyFishGames/AdvancedCompany

[lament nebula]

Ahhh. Yeah if you stream it can make sense

[slim wind]

i have some news for ya

[lament nebula]

So it’s up to date for this update

14 hours ago

[sage cradle]

then something changed since then

[slim wind]

there has been many AC (and LLL updates) and there's not an equivalent in commits

[lament nebula]

It’s always been source available

[slim wind]

since the return

only

[lament nebula]

No, it’s always been

[sage cradle]

nope

[slim wind]

Decompiled source =/= source available

[lament nebula]

I forget the name of the thing but there was a tool you used for viewing the source

[unique geode]

You're pretty daft if you believe that js, not to be rude.

[slim wind]

don't try to spin bullshit to me 😟

[unique geode]

It has not always been source available, for the longest time AC never had a github at all

[slim wind]

you can decompile LC - does it make it source-available?

no

[lament nebula]

AC has had a git since January tf you on about /lh

[zenith flax]

(Also keep in mind it had to move to open source to continue forking any future version of LLL)

[lament nebula]

Its license isn’t compatible with LLL regardless

[unique geode]

Not like he's gonna get anywhere with it, noone in their right mind is gonna use his shitty fork

[lament nebula]

I’ve used it and have had no issues

No desync issues for anyone I play with either

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Not saying they don’t exist

Just saying in the hours I’ve played I haven’t ran into ‘em

Could just be lucky

[lament nebula]

Potatoe always said it was source-available even before the drama, so I apologize if I was misinformed /gen

[unique geode]

Why would you believe anything Potatoe says?

[primal dome]

i mean he said a lot of things, doesnt make anything he says accurate lol

[lament nebula]

Because this was like months ago it was said

[unique geode]

Always fact check things, just cus he said it didn't make it true

[lament nebula]

I tend to do so, which is why I apologized for not doing so.

[primal dome]

i always took anything he said with a large degree of salt personally

[zenith flax]

Advanced Company was source available in the same sense Lethal Company was source available, via decompilation

[unique geode]

Same

[zenith flax]

you can't not make a mod that's source available via decompilation

[lament nebula]

Ahh, that you for explaining it.

[slim wind]

no worries, didn't mean to get so heated here - that's just an important distinction - he's had a repo for a long time, but without the source code 🥲

[lament nebula]

Yeah I knew of the repo and was under the impression it had the source for a while now

[sage cradle]

repo was only for bug reports afaik

[lament nebula]

I didn’t look too into the repo bc I just didn’t need to do as much research on mod stuff before it became open

But I knew it existed

[young acorn]

the audio does play! but it plays in specifically my right ear and also inside

[lament nebula]

Visited it a couple of times but my memory is really poor

[unique geode]

Yeah he started using it for bug reports and would simply refuse bug reports in the Discord. Legit his attitude with that was also annoying

"Has it been reported on github? I won't fix it unless it is"

[lament nebula]

Admittedly it’s wayyyyy easier to take bug reports on a git

[unique geode]

Was his attitude

[lament nebula]

Worked for a company that took them on discord and it was a nightmare

lol

[sage cradle]

as if he was fixing something before creating that repo, lol

[primal dome]

it was more of a tone problem imo, i get bugs in a few places and i kindly ask to have it posted as an issue, its just how you come off as

[sage cradle]

"it's ok on my end, it's all your mods to blame, kthxbye"

[lament nebula]

Exactly!

[unique geode]

Yeah

He was just rude about it tone wise

and would be a smart ass

[lament nebula]

I’ve talked to him a bit and he seems to have some tone issues

Wouldn’t be surprised if he has some kind of language processing problems like I do

[unique geode]

Nah he just has a personality problem, we saw the full extent of that

[lament nebula]

I’ve chatted with him about it and he’s def improved with making sarcasm more clear and such

[primal dome]

its certainly possible but unfortunately actions tend to speak louder

[unique geode]

and that's not me being mean or anything

His actions spoke for themselves

[primal dome]

yeah

[lament nebula]

Oh he’s improved a lot with it since then

[primal dome]

yet still doing actions which are not great to put it lightly

[unique geode]

Just cus you chat to him in dm's doesn't mean he's improved

[lament nebula]

I’m in his server and chat occasionally (mainly in it for AC update info), and he started explicitly marking sarcasm

[lament nebula]

I don’t think I’ve ever dm’d him

Several people in his server have language processing issues and so he improved his communication

[primal dome]

well thats certainly a good change, but that doesnt aquit him from his actions, but ill digress

[lament nebula]

It absolutely doesn’t

He’d act rude and childish

Incredibly immaturely

I couldn’t tell if he was serious or not with almost any message when he was in this server

Now he makes sure to mark almost every time he’s sarcastic, and sometimes even doubles down to make sure it’s clear

you definitely wouldn’t think it going off of his behaviour here

it’s wild

It doesn’t undo anything he did

Obviously

But he’s made an attempt to improve

[unique geode]

Idc if the man improves admitting when he's being sarcastic, doesn't justify anything he did or how he treated other mod devs

[lament nebula]

It doesn’t

Like I already said

He’s even admitted he acted immaturely and childish, and I’ve told it to him directly as well.

Because he did

He acted like a manchild throwing a tantrum

And I make sure to speak my mind and criticize things that deserve to be in his server

Because frankly idc if I’m banned from it

And he tends to agree with my criticisms

[young acorn]

for some reason, my moon has extremely rough loading times even when leaving. it puts a "waiting for crew" without the tinted background on my screen for a while as the game nearly crashes, afterwards the game resumes but stays on waiting for crew as it only then starts to load for everyone else. when leaving, the game does the same thing, just without the "waiting for crew".

[lament nebula]

That’s really odd

Especially since it’s also when leaving

[young acorn]

do you have any idea of what could be causing it?

[lament nebula]

I have no clue for the leaving

For joining it might be a DunGen issue

iirc I experienced a similar problem with SDM when it was new

[young acorn]

all i have for dungeon flows is facility and mansion

with a size mult of 1.3

[lament nebula]

Yeah I have no clue then

Do you have a lot of stuff going on in your moon?

[young acorn]

there's a decently large amount of props but basically no scripts or anything like that to be found

[lament nebula]

It could be the props maybe?

idk

I haven’t developed anything for LLL yet so my knowledge only goes so far unfortunately

[young acorn]

i swear i've seen maps with just as many props plus scripts that run infinitely better though

[nimble umbra]

@young acorn what are your mods installed?

[young acorn]

hookgenpatcher
bepinexpack
lethallib
lll
viewextension
starlanceraifix
lcmaxsoundsfix
freecammer
aeioucompany
dancetools
the moon mod

[nimble umbra]

Alright, how does your moon looks rn?

Does it have a lot of objects or something

Also what is the dungeon size

[young acorn]

yeah it has plenty. dungeon size is 1.3

24-ish objects outside

[nimble umbra]

🤔

And your game loads very long while generating dungeon or leaving planet?

[young acorn]

both, yeah

[young acorn]

scratch that there's maybe 60-80 objects including objects inside objects

[nimble umbra]

Oh well, that explains everything

And I assume that you haven't baked occlusion yet

[young acorn]

not sure how to bake occlusion. about the object count, i'm not too sure what to do about it because most of the complaints i've got about the moon are the outside being empty

[lament nebula]

Yeah if you didn’t that’s why

Yeah that’s probably why

Didn’t even think to ask bc I assumed you did

My b

[nimble umbra]

So basically
Occlusion culling makes static objects cull whenever players camera isn't facing them
You should have and object on the map called Occlusion Area

Make sure to put it and scale enough to cover your entire playarea where players are most likely to be

[young acorn]

i am not to be overestimated

found occlusionareas, it's extremely small because i never changed it from using vow as a template

[slim wind]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-maybe-next-time-you-will-estimate-me-gif-16945264

[nimble umbra]

Next, you need to select all your props and meshes that are basically static objects and tick Static box at the right up in the inspector

Next go to

Window > Rendering > Occlusion Culling

This will add another tab right next to the inspector with occlusion culling properties

From there, select bake tab and I'll recommend setting 3 next values as

10, 0.5, 100

This is how I set it out

Finally click bake and wait for it to finish

After that you can just build your map again and the culling should work

Remember that you need to bake occlusion sometimes when you make drastic changes to the environment as well as baking navmesh for environment itself

There is a lot to do in order to optimize your map

And achieve the best performance

But I recommend doing debuging and optimizing as the last thing

[young acorn]

i'm just looking for reasonable performance atleast

[nimble umbra]

From now on, occlusion should help you with testing

[young acorn]

i've been doing debugging as i go as i've been testing with friends for their opinions

[nimble umbra]

Also, check if props models you are using also have their LOD variant

If so, then its recommended to add LOD thing to your props

[young acorn]

i've made sure all the lod-able props have their lod variant or just use their lod variant alone

[nimble umbra]

👍

Then all you need is occlusion culling

Atm

[young acorn]

the amount of time spent loading has decreased tenfold, thank you so much!

[nimble umbra]

👌

[lament nebula]

Yeah baking does massive lifting

[hoary monolith]

So if I'm reading https://github.com/IAmBatby/LethalLevelLoader/blob/main/LethalLevelLoader/Tools/ContentRestorer.cs#L28 correctly, I just have to put an ItemGroup with a .name property matching the name of the base games ItemGroup and that type of scrap will spawn on a RandomScrapSpawn? So I don't need to set the .itemSpawnTypeName in the inspector?

[kindred bramble]

Get well soon!

[lament nebula]

Thanks!

[hexed mesa]

To add more fuel to the fire, I did have a moment when testing SDM with my friend that the dungeon loaded correctly for us both, but we had two different doors that were locked differently for both for us

It could be my code's fault ngl. But it has happened

[young acorn]

is there any way to get the sun to render behind everything else?

[wispy aurora]

hi guys

i have a problem my friend and i does not sync dungeons

mine was a mansion and his was a factory

i think there is a problem

[young acorn]

development of sierra is going well

[jagged arch]

https://tenor.com/view/aladdin-disney-sand-genie-its-everywhere-gif-15651963

[calm eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-like-sand-anakin-gif-11329322205351760612

[lament nebula]

"I like sand. It's soft and smooth and pleasing and it gets nowhere."

[young acorn]

gwagwagwa :(

[brisk carbon]

hello! this is kind of an odd question but i was hoping to use lethallevelloader in an otherwise vanilla game because to my knowledge it is the most end user-accessible way of altering the rarities of vanilla tilesets in game without just flatly enabling/disabling, and i wanted to use it in this capacity for public lobbies (where people would know about it, of course)

but lethallevelloader in itself requires all clients to have it, to my understanding--is a host-only version of this function possible within lethal company or would it always have to be shared between all clients?

[spice ingot]

trust anyone who says it but its very important that everyone has it less you end up with one person in the facility and another in the haunted mansion

[brisk carbon]

awwww, that's such a shame

i guess the factory will remain a rare treat

[spice ingot]

from what ive read and seen first hand the slightest dsync or mismatch is like opening pandoras box for this game

little exaggeration but you get my point

so yeah everyone would need the mod/modlist

[brisk carbon]

i was hoping level selection might be an entirely host-sided process but unfortunately sounds not haha

thank you!

[spice ingot]

well, i dunno much bout the way vanilla handles stuff cause i havent touched it in ever i just know what LLL does so for all i know it could be but it probably isnt

[young acorn]

it seems enabling content configuration on LE moons disables all their custom scrap

[cunning pivot]

I would be curious to check log for the host and the client, i actually added a lot of logs in the LLLFixed mod, to help with that when poeple still have desync, i'm pretty sure the reason will be pretty blatant inside that

[old pebble]

This looks like it fits well with the Vanilla maps. Very nice!

[eager zephyr]

So, are we back?

[spice ingot]

🎉

[slim wind]

AC is gone 👀

holy

[fallow fern]

ALL is also gone

and all forks / reuploads of any of Potatoe's projects apparently

[spice ingot]

we did it gamers

shame for those who used ac for what it offered on its own

[idle ravine]

I don't think it's really constructive to demean people for using a mod they enjoy, but I guess this has been a long time coming (awaiting either a statement or whatnot)

[spice ingot]

i mean shame in a respectful way

like a "silence for our fallen brothers" sentiment.

[eager zephyr]

They didn't say "shame on those who used it".

[spice ingot]

but, yeah no they got what was coming

[eager zephyr]

Different meaning.

[spice ingot]

^

[idle ravine]

Ah mb, classic text tone issues

[spice ingot]

completely valid dw

i wasnt a fan of AC but i mean i could see its appeal with what original features it had

[slim wind]

I'm gonna cry over my beloved helmet lamp 😓

oh well

we win these

[spice ingot]

reserved flashlights

[eager zephyr]

Not the same.

[slim wind]

they are lower on the body 😓😓😓

and stupid bottles make ugly shadows

[spice ingot]

to each their own i suppose

[idle ravine]

Dunno if I 100% agree with the removal but it definitely eases my tensions

(also dunno if this is necessarily the right channel to discuss this, if any)

[slim wind]

legal threats in the changelogs are an interesting choice

[spice ingot]

^

[sage cradle]

well, we had zero desyncs today even with latejoin, but i replaced lobbycontrol with shiplobby, so i suspect it might be that

if it happens i'll save the logs

[slim wind]

https://web.archive.org/web/20240226085733/https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/PotatoePet/AdvancedCompany/

goodbye, fallen king 🫡

[eager zephyr]

Sheeesh

[spice ingot]

not to be rude or anything but if he was a king i feel like he'd be king george

[calm eagle]

future StarlancerUpgrades

[slim wind]

if you do this you better attach donation link

[calm eagle]

I already have donation links on my stuff

[slim wind]

you're gonna hear from me soon

[calm eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-sparrow-gif-22521430

[nimble umbra]

This looks actually terrifying

Like
Do people actually bullied him after he left?

[spice ingot]

i think the "bullies" is just nunchuck updating the logo removal thing

[slim wind]

it's all documented, I'll try to grab some links for you later

[spice ingot]

this seems very overreacting

[slim wind]

this was the first removal tho, 2 weeks ago

[nimble umbra]

Oh

I thought it's from now

But the mod is gone anyway

[vagrant sundial]

I don't know if anyone is in his discord server, but they are going apeshit. Threatening actual legal and calling mama lama and the entire TS staff emotionally unstable. They are genuinely in a bubble

[slim wind]

🙃

lmao

[vagrant sundial]

its wild

[spice ingot]

whats the term im looking for

echo chamber

[spice ingot]

if there were disappointed i would be more sympathetic but calling people unstable bitches is crazy

[gaunt hinge]

the hell

[wild wing]

Is there a thread or any infos why it went down?

[idle ravine]

(probably best not to talk about potatoes behaviour or the AC stuff here regardless of what's going on)

[spice ingot]

true fair

lets focus on positives

LLL IS GONNA BE BACK IN BUSINESS WOOOO

[slim wind]

(hopefully)

[nimble umbra]

Despite this whole drama I do actually enjoyed AC a lot with my friends and I'm sorry for the author, that all of this happened.
Too bad I can't code, because I would love to remake this mod, removing some of the unnecessary features

[nimble umbra]

Honestly
V50 seems to be on the horizon, so it's maybe a good time for bat to take a longer brake and wait until V50 comes out

New update might actually change a lot in code, so modders might have to adapt to it

[spice ingot]

fair

[merry marsh]

Honestly depending on how much content is in v50 I could see myself just staying on the older version for mods. So many good Interiors are being worked on right now, modded's just got more content imo

[spice ingot]

still though with ac gone batsy will probably get back eventually

[fallow fern]

🙏

[merry marsh]

I do really hope so, I'm excited for what's to come if it keeps getting updates

[vagrant sundial]

stop holding out hope. Some have been truely convinced for weeks the update will come out the next day

[fallow fern]

On the one hand I don't think v50 is imminent

but on the other zeekers did tweet a teaser image

which is either

• development is going well, here's a cool thing you'll get later
  or
• the update is close

I don't know which of the two I'd say it is but interesting to know about

[idle ravine]

Unless there's some major sweeping changes to the moon/dungeon infrastructure (which probably not but we can dream) I imagine updating to v50 will be pretty smooth

[fair dome]

imma guess v50 coming next month

[nimble umbra]

Same

[vagrant sundial]

is this the company room? with jeb under the floor

[nimble umbra]

Whatever it is, its not probably connected with the update tbh

[merry marsh]

kinda looks like a mansion interior imo

[nimble umbra]

Just a concept art

[nimble umbra]

I really hope for some vertical dungeon changes

[wild wing]

Imagine hes making a dungeon on the company building lol

With the thing downstairs somehow

[idle ravine]

Vertical dungeons would be cool, dunno how well DunGen handles it though

[wild wing]

Putting 2 reactors inside activates it and something special opens up in the company building

[merry marsh]

I'm hoping for parts that come exclusive with each interior being what you need

[idle ravine]

Gotta get back on Hadal dev, been a bit burnt out recently but I'm feeling pretty confident in it now

[lament nebula]

For the record this straight up isn’t true, and I have no clue why you’re saying this.

Unless messages were deleted or something

[vagrant sundial]

my bad i quoted it wrong (This is referring to mama lama): I refuse to believe that shit, there is no way someone that emotionally unstable has full rights to dictate based on feeling and not TOS

[lament nebula]

A single person said that and nobody even acknowledged them, because it was rude and uncalled for.

[nimble umbra]

Its not so hard to do
The only reason you're teleported back to entry when going too low is because of outofbounds trigger below dungeon
Zeekers could fix if really easly by generating this trigger with the dungeon itself and seting its position to a specific offset from the lowest point of the dungeon tile

[brisk schooner]

They are in the Thunderstore server demanding my removal as well as like half the staff here (not a thunderstore issue). Mythic will be online to handle it sometime in the next 12 hours and then that will be it. I don't want anymore of this discussed here, becasue there isn't anything else to say

[vagrant sundial]

ok 👍

[brisk schooner]

Thank

[lament nebula]

I’m not even in the thunderstore server, i haven’t done a thing…

[nimble umbra]

Well
Seeing how unstable potato is only makes me feel sorry for him.
I was this unstable myself and currently I'm going on the therapy and taking meds for almost 2 years now, because i have depression

[mystic violet]

We will all die sooner or later, let's just enjoy life and keep modding 🙏🏼

[fading wyvern]

i feel like this isnt the thread to be discussing this anyway

[mystic violet]

Yee

[fading wyvern]

batby deserves to chill

[fallow fern]

Yeah

also tragic this became the de facto thread for this, I get moderators not wanting an AC thread again but I'd much rather just discuss the hopeful future of LLL now

[loud pond]

yea we have LLLFix for any bugs for now

batby has done alot of work on LLL and needs a break

[rich aurora]

Ye, esp an extended break with all the stuff going on too :s

[brisk schooner]

I may reopen the what happened thread

[chrome notch]

i don't mind a break as long as LLLFixed exists, but i hope this hasn't soured him from LC modding completely

[slim wind]

only time will tell

[chrome notch]

yeah

[lament nebula]

Making a new one might not be a bad idea

Potatoe has his response plus both of Batby’s in a channel in his discord for people to easily access so I could post those in it

[zenith flax]

https://tenor.com/view/the-bear-tv-show-jeremy-allen-white-chef-carmy-gif-27412526

Just woke up.

Will elaborate more later but I’m off today and tomorrow regardless, after that though we’ll get the train leaving the station again

[fallow fern]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-woooo-yeah-baby-gif-24480925

[zenith flax]

No promises but I might go and port everyones remaining LE moons to remove the need for improved LE compatibility

[spice ingot]

YOOOOO

[lament nebula]

At least something positive can come out of losing AC as a whole

[unique geode]

AC was never a positive thing after it's return

Glad it's gone for good

[lament nebula]

Unfortunate that any of that stuff had to happen to begin with

[unique geode]

Good riddance

It won't be missed, the mod was severely toxic and maintained by a severely unstable person

[spice ingot]

lets focus more positively rn

[lament nebula]

Please stop trying to get a word in almost every time anyone on this server mentions AC.

[spice ingot]

we've had our discussion on ac's closing thats over now

we're thinking about the future

[lament nebula]

Exactly, it’s unnecessary to be negative rn

[unique geode]

I'm not, I'm just saying with it gone a lot of positive will come ^^

[spice ingot]

okay and i agree but stop.

[unique geode]

The past couple weeks have been a lot of negativity

[lament nebula]

We can agree on that

It sucks

[spice ingot]

anyways on a positive note AQUATIS COULD FINALLY UPDATE SOON WOOOOO

[lament nebula]

Had enough drama when I was following the fnf mod community

[fallow fern]

Exactly what I was thinking

Honestly my most anticipated port

[unique geode]

I'm excited about the LE moons being able to have LLL support

[spice ingot]

and also wesley's moons but like ive been mainly waiting for aquatis

cause his updates already ready it was just LLL that needed to be ready

[lament nebula]

I swear like the only mod community I’ve ever followed without drama was the DDLC modding community

That one was like comically wholesome and positive

[spice ingot]

lets not talk about drama anymore

[unique geode]

That's exactly why I was happy about AC being gone, it's return stirred up a lot of negativity and I'm glad the drama is over

[loud pond]

the only modding community ive followed with no drama was the last train outta wormtown modding community (the modding community literally consists of 2 people me and my friend)

[spice ingot]

like im not a mod so obviously you dont have to listen but i think it'd be best for everyone to just zip it for now that its over.

[lament nebula]

Admittedly it was years ago, but it was one of the most inviting online communities I’ve ever seen

[loud pond]

instead lets talk about infernis!!11!!

[spice ingot]

TRUE

INFERNIS LLL SUPPORT

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YA LOVE TO SEE IT YA LOVE TO SEE IT

[brisk schooner]

I will be posting an official statement in a new thread open to feedback within the hour, please refrain from discussion until then, okay?

[spice ingot]

🫡

[brisk schooner]

I'm finalizing the wording and getting all the staff to sign off on it that I can since its a statement from all of us

[spice ingot]

discussion about the thing or discussion in general here

i assume the first but just to be sure

[brisk schooner]

oh, just about the thing, yea

[spice ingot]

kk

WOOOOO INFERNIS COMPATIBILITY

[fallow fern]

pleas wesley 🙏

I'm positive 95% of people using LECore for moons would drop it immediately if wesley switched

[loud pond]

LECore has been the more popular choice for new makers

as it was more documented

audio knight made a tutorial recently for LLL

iirc

[spice ingot]

we need more documentation for LLL then so we can leave LEcore behind

[fallow fern]

I think documentation was the last thing in the works before the thing so that will probably be coming first or close to it

[brisk schooner]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1217286517249277962

[spare bear]

Is there a common denominator why my LLL config file duplicates entries every time I load the game or do I just gotta uninstall moons/interiors 'till it stops bugging out

[spice ingot]

current fix is to download LLLfixed

it'll most likely be patched with the next LLL update though so it's only temporary

[spare bear]

LLLfixed overrides LLL so I don't have to disable it right?

[spice ingot]

im not the person ask for that ive not messed around further than basic configuration changed

[merry marsh]

Yup!

[spice ingot]

dont wanna mess up your pack so, i dunno

[spare bear]

Good to know, thanks

[fair dome]

including monster spawn percentage of a moon in the simulate command would be a nice addition

[tall kindle]

It would probably get too cluttered, but something like simulate interior or simulate outside or simulate inside or simulate daytime would probably be good filters

[fair dome]

separate commands would work too yea

[merry marsh]

'simulate [moon] enemies' with two columns, one with inside and one with outside enemy spawn chances

Since with some modded enemies they spawn both inside and outside. Also StarlancerAIFix being a thing on some maps

[fleet badger]

is there a way i can only change the route price without affecting the creature spawn weight? because Ive already tune the weight in their config, i dun wanna mess up their settings

[low rapids]

My entrance has stopped working

[calm eagle]

Well yea, there's a brick wall behind it
sorry I can't be of actual help

[jagged arch]

this aint Platform 9 3/4

[spare pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-clapping-lets-go-lets-goo-happy-gif-18524017

just saw that LLL will get back on tracks soon

[dim lily]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-of-wall-street-lets-goo-gif-11742735383203550293

[spare pecan]

hope batby's doing good, better or anything positive now ✌️

it's been tense for a while

also hoping the best for 🥔 though

[leaden citrus]

I think you are missing an EntranceTeleport script.

[leaden citrus]

Because you were getting the "Main entrance position could not be found. Returning origin." error in your console.

RoundManager.cs -> FindMainEntrancePosition();

Is that the missing script you had?

[granite sundial]

oh how i wish upon a star that levels wouldn't get stuck on the loading seed screen when trying to land 😭🙏

[granite sundial]

or that i knew enough to help fix it 😭

[iron quiver]

What moons are causing this? I haven’t had that issue in forever

[royal yacht]

can you check the logs and send them here?

[granite sundial]

ya the next time it happens i will we were in the middle of streaming so i couldn't attend to it at that moment

[jolly cargo]

One possible reason could be the interior not loading correctly

did you modify the interior size clamps?

[tired solar]

@zenith flax Are you aware if enemies registered with LethalLib aren't added to LLL moons because LethalLib registers enemies before LLL?

This seems to be the case, as right now I'm fixing LethalLib's enemy registration code and also tried adding my enemy to a LLL moon.

LethalLib registers enemies as a postfix on StartOfRound.Awake. When I make it register enemies as a postfix on RoundManager.Start, my enemy does get added to LLL moons. What do you think would be the best solution here? Should LethalLib just delay the adding of enemies like I just did?

Afaik LethalLib enemies do get added to LE moons though.

[zenith flax]

yeah I’ll have to look into this

Need Eva to respond to a DM aswell

[tired solar]

So I guess I can just ignore this issue for now?

[zenith flax]

tba on it yeah

[jolly cargo]

maybe that can explain the config inconsistencies?

I've seen it with the bracken tho

unless lethallib + diversity would change how it is registered...

def seen the shy guy and rolling giant spawning regardless of spawn table

[dim lily]

shy guy uses it's own spawning mechanics

idk about rolling giant tho

[old pebble]

yeah I get shy guys spawning on my moon

[jolly cargo]

On purpose?

[old pebble]

nah they just kinda

do

so they for sure work with LLL moons

[spice ingot]

i cannot wait for all the moons and enemies and everything that could be causing me these inconsistent to recreate errors to be ported to LLL so the possibility of them happening diminishes

~~cause i love landing on a moon just for it to be stuck in the seed screen for some unknown reason ~~

not tryna get some help just generally stating

[fossil token]

I might be going nuts or there's a error I haven't noticed being relevant but I can't use the simulate command. Was using it a couple of days ago. Any ideas? Conflicts?
Nevermind don't even know what changed apart from I uninstalled SchoolMoon (good mod but not immersive) but it's working now.

[humble comet]

i experience this last time, it happened when u quit to main menu and load the save without restarting the game

[merry marsh]

One feature that I think could be really nice(especially now that there are multiples of the same interior), would be some way to have a group of interiors be able to be selected for a moon and then a second selection within that group would be made for the interior. For example, you could have a group called 'pools' that contains both pool interiors. Then if 'pools' is selected for the interior, there is a second weighted selection for which pool interior is chosen. If implemented this way, you could have a greater overall chance of getting a "type" or I guess genre of interior vs having multiple individual chances. Basically nesting the interior selection process

[zenith flax]

thats what tags are kinda for

in theory

[merry marsh]

I guess, but that relies on the map makers setting the same tags. Maybe some way for us to set custom tags?

I just assume that this will be somewhat annoying if there are 3 or more of the same interior type in the future

[zenith flax]

user tagging is probably not the vibe to be honest

what's the usecase for example?

[merry marsh]

I want to group together interiors that are the same theme. PoolRooms and LiminalPools, and the two school interiors.

[zenith flax]

yeah the proper way to proceed with those examples is to bother the devs, unfortunately

i say unfortunately but it is intended

[merry marsh]

But it's just gonna get worse with time, more people are just gonna make duplicates

[zenith flax]

and the people should tag them..

[merry marsh]

Wait interiors have a tag list? I only thought moons did?

[zenith flax]

ohhh i see what your asking for now

apologies

i'd have to think about how to approach something like that

(dungeons will have tags very soon though)

[nimble umbra]

What's new in upcoming update?

[merry marsh]

A tag list for interiors could work though, I think grouping would just be nicer on the users end since it wouldn't have to rely as much on the interior mods makers cooperating

[zenith flax]

god i dont know

i gotta figure thato ut

all the stuff ive mentioned before all wont be in the same update

[zenith flax]

dungeons will need tags anyway

now that we'll be doing ExtendedItem and ExtendedEnemyAI

[merry marsh]

I didn't even think about all the other features that could make use of the tag system. I'm sure it will come in handy. Celestial Tint using the moon tag system is a good example of a smart use of the moon tags

[zenith flax]

tags are the future of cross-compatability

[nimble umbra]

Then whats ready for now?

[zenith flax]

thats something i need to evaluate

first update is likely just going to be reimplementation of LLLFixed's changes and the terminal event bug

second update is probably cleaned up stuff i was working on beforehand

then i gotta spend time helping port wesley and generic moons and maybe get an early version of item and enemy up so people can start moving from lethallib

[merry marsh]

When the game selects the Facility interior, how does the game determine if it uses Level1Flow or Level1FlowLarge? I'm talking in a scenario where both facility interiors have a weight of 100 and there's also a weight of 100 for the haunted mansion. The simulate command shows that it's a 50/50 for facility/haunted mansion. Not a 2/3 and 1/3 chance like you'd think

[zenith flax]

if its titan it uses level1flowlarge

if its not titan it doesnt

i think

[zenith flax]

overall unfortunately im very behind on where i wanted LLL to be due to the lost two and half-ish weeks. some stuff i mentioned i was going to do is abit further along in the pipeline

[merry marsh]

I was gonna say it looks kinda like my suggestion. If the game picks facility then it rolls a second weighted selection between the two of them. But I don't know if it works like that or not

[zenith flax]

nah thats just vanilla jank

theres no sauce on that to make it happen

[merry marsh]

Makes sense. So titan is just a hard coded exception then? I think EchoReach was the map where I saw both facility flows being used

[lament nebula]

That’s probably the best course of action tbh

Also will help give you a baseline for the current users

And gives people the heads up to move from LLLFixed

[fleet badger]

i want to go to gloom and i got this, do i set anything wrong?

[fleet badger]

my game just bugged and it automatically didnt run LLL to start the game, and all the things get normal, i think thats a bug of LLL

[merry marsh]

Any chance for a fix for Celest and Celestria getting interior values mixed up?

[grave sluice]

Hi, i'm looking to find a way to use custom scripts in my maps, is there a tutorial of how to do it ?

Cause i made a simple script, built my .lethalbundle launch LC, went on my map, but my scripts seams not enable

like i made a simple one to rotate an item but nothing happen

[chrome notch]

what's up with lethallib? just lack of maintenance/interest from the author?

[tired solar]

While the main author of LethalLib isn't really working on it much currently, there are people who are contributing to it such as me right now, writing some null checks.

But yeah, @zenith flax I would also like to hear the reason for why to implement another API for adding enemies/items? Is it just for better integration with LLL?

[sage cradle]

hey @zenith flax i'm glad to hear that you're working on LLL again, i hope you will sort out possible reasons why interior desync happens when players latejoin

unfortunately even lllfixed fork doesn't help with that

[zenith flax]

ill try 😅

[zenith flax]

@chrome notch

ok so in regards to that, yes Evaisa has been slowly moving away from Lethal Company modding. LethalLevelLoader was originally a fork to LethalLib that I split off because I wanted to control what I released without pushing potentially unstable changes to LethalLib directly. Theres a ton of pros and cons to having all major content loading be done in a single mod but particularly while the community is so new and unstanderdized, it makes a lot of sense for it to be done this way for overall consistency in how content is loaded and processed, Especially when gamebreaking updates like v50 are on the horizon.

I'm not like, looking to dive right into replicating the features LethalLib offers right now in comparison to say Lethal Expansion because LethalLib is abit more stable and I have a lot less active reasons to do so. People have already started running into the walls of items and enemies being processed in one mod and levels being processed in another so having all these systems be integrated together can offer a lot of pathways to new and exciting mods

It's less of a merging LethalLib into LethalLevelLoader and more of an official plan to transition the community into using LLL for these kind of things rather than LL, with the grace of Eva to do so 🙏

[fair dome]

maybe have a thing for the LLL to remove levels or interiors that arent loaded or duplicates from the config? i heard someone saying that causes issues sometimes. anecdotally…

[zenith flax]

In particular to @tired solar since your also a collaborator on it now, I have the full intent to help out where I can to keep LethalLib from being deprecated due to fundemental conflicts with other mods and breakage due to upcoming game updates while their are still mods using it and have no issue if you kinda want to take the reigns on pushing changes to it

[eager zephyr]

#1193461151636398080 message

[zenith flax]

Also as a less offical statement, I do wanna put out the vibe that I am still somewhat cooked from a mix of the previous situation and a little seasonable burnout? so it might take slightly longer than expected to get back on the horse so-to-speak and I do really apologize for that. Just wanna communicate this because I know in theory it should be easy to knock out a bunch of small little changes and fixes but that's something that I find a bit more challenging for myself compared to other devs and I'm working on that. This is still my first publicly released software project and getting used to the post-release workflow pipeline and whatnot 😅

I probably have a couple hundred tasks lined up which is a lil' intimidating for such a huge userbase aha. Can't imagine how Zeekerss feels

Also doesn't help that I'm not the biggest fan of the lack of version control thunderstore wise + default automatic updates for users. Makes it a lot scarier to push out an update that has an issue

[tired solar]

This is so true 😭

[merry marsh]

My thunderstore updates aren't automatic by default

[zenith flax]

oh frl? maybe im mistaken 🤔

[tired solar]

the issue is that there are no "beta" versions, so the latest version is what people will update to when they update, and that version might have bugs

[zenith flax]

yee that too

[forest mountain]

They aren't automatic by default, but there is a popup whenever you have any updates available, and most people will just press the "Update All" button thinking they'll just be getting the best version

[zenith flax]

or if i push out a accidently gamebreaking update i cant change like the recomended version

you might be like "dont release broken updates then" meanwhile my ass is finding out intro tweak mods skip an entire scene

not a dunk but things just happen

[tired solar]

lol, reminds me of that one LethalLib update that broke registering network objects

[forest mountain]

It's hard to bugfix without a slew of bugtesters :(

[zenith flax]

and that the pipeline to doing beta testing is like

non existant

[zenith flax]

^

[merry marsh]

Yeah I'm probably a outlier in that I check update logs before I update

[tired solar]

even if the change was minimal, there can still be bugs though

god, I so wish thunderstore had a beta thing, I'm really scared about publishing my null check changes for LethalLib that should fix bugs, but yeah dunno, it could instead break everything 💀

[zenith flax]

you legit pushed that hasflag to contains check pr and someone was crying that lethallib broke everything 😭

(it didnt)

[tired solar]

yeah, I am very scared about pushing anything now 😭

cus also, when Visual Error made a simple change to add enemies to the debug tools list, those changes also broke network prefabs 😭 😭 😭

[sage cradle]

Maybe it worth it to create separate upload with beta changes and call it like "experimental", so who want to test - will test, and others still use stable version

That's the only workaround I can think of

[fleet badger]

Hi everyone, I have another bug when using LLL to change moons' config. I'm trying to land on moon Fission-C and stuck on loading random seed.

hope the next update of LLL can fix those bug

[fleet badger]

and also a bug, when i try to close the game and restart a room, the price of moon goes back to normal

[slim wind]

and then many people use only that, because "it has more features" 🙂

[eager zephyr]

I mean, LLLF is kind of like that right now.

[zenith flax]

why are you posting this here

[eager zephyr]

Known issue with Immersive Visor.

[fleet badger]

oh sor i thought im in lethal quantity

[sage cradle]

Perhaps, but they can't complain about broken releases then, as they've chosen to participate in beta testing

So you can upload anything you want to experimental version and not worry about something being broken

[slim wind]

yeah, it's fully opt-in and the warning is upfront

[bleak musk]

If I could how can I remove custom levels in Lethal Level Loader? There are 5 Atlas Abyss' after I downloaded another moon.

[fleet badger]

personally suggest to use Lethal Quantities to do this. Current version of LLL config has a bug that when u quit to main menu and restart the game, the LLL config become not running and all ur settings will gone

[bleak musk]

Thank you for the suggestion but does lethal quantities allow you to configure what enemies are outside and inside the facility.

[fleet badger]

of course yes, and u can change anything individually, thats what LLL cannot do, in LLL if u want to only change the route price, u have to change also the creature weight and scraps, u cant make them spawn default

[zenith flax]

u have to change also the creature weight and scraps, u cant make them spawn default
🤔

Trying to figure out if yall would before more frequent but less refined updates or the opposite

[zenith flax]

well

switch is finally fixed LMAO

by these three lines

            if (__instance.currentNode != TerminalManager.moonsKeyword.specialKeywordResult)
                return (true);
            else

[zenith flax]

@slim wind initial extendedweather implementation might be in next update just because i cbf to remove stuff

we can talk about stuff before it goes live

[unique geode]

How close is this update? ;o Sounds like you're close to pushing it :3

[zenith flax]

no etas

[unique geode]

👍

[zenith flax]

im curious what devs and users feel about these numbers

need vibe checks on how accurate these are

[humble comet]

what those numbers are for even

[zenith flax]

difficulty calculation

slightly better? hard for things like march vs rend because i have no way to reference the actual level design aspects including the fog and such

@brittle gull @fading wyvern @weary apex @vagrant sundial sorry to bother yall but id love to know where you guys want your levels to be difficulty wise compared to the vanilla maps

[tall kindle]

Assurance is probably like 3700 and Offense closer to 5000, maybe even 5000 or more lol

Offense being allowed to spawn coilheads is criminal

[zenith flax]

oh sorry, should clarify

the actual numbers dont matter

what matters in the numbers in relation to the other numbers

if that makes sense

[tall kindle]

yeah that was the assumption i was going under, considering Assurance is a speedrunners go-to and offense is... well pretty annoying inside enemies, although im not sure why your starting point was 2700 😂

[zenith flax]

this is calculated

i didnt start anywhere 😭

[tall kindle]

oooh okay i kinda assumed you were going off ear lmao

[zenith flax]

no its literally all super cursed calculations

[tall kindle]

im assuming you gave each inside enemy + their spawn weight a different number depending on whatever math you thought was gucci

swtuff like that

[zenith flax]

thats involved yes

[vagrant sundial]

Orion is pretty good if it's not taking terrain into account. I think a fair number for Orion would be more like 12000-14000 (edit)? Celest i'd say 6000-7000. There are a lot of enemies outside, but you can hide from them in the woods. That is the idea at least.

Do you take into account the distance to the main entrance?

[zenith flax]

i literally cant take into account anything relating to the scene

[vagrant sundial]

ok thats fair

[tall kindle]

cant you just add a bias factor

:p

i call it bias, but more like an outside factor to things you literally cant calculate and have to estimate

[vagrant sundial]

a multiplier in the extendedlevel

[tall kindle]

mayhaps

[weary apex]

I didn't even know Orion was that complicated

Ahah

[zenith flax]

i think i will probably have a environment difficulty rating from 1-10 and hardcode vanilla ones like i do leveltags

wanna know how close i can get without that tho

[tall kindle]

maybe you could use the distance from ship landings to the entrance if you can get that

[zenith flax]

.

[tall kindle]

rip

really not a lot you can do then