[Deprecated] Advanced Company

[arctic sonnet]

9 - custom - maps

moons... youknowwhatimean

[lost python]

ok but

is it a LLL moon/map

[barren rover]

Out of mine, any of them on LLL seem to have this problem

[lost python]

if it is then yeah that's why 👀

[arctic sonnet]

i guess I could check my other 8 moons real-quick

but it probably is just an LLL thing

[lost python]

yeah it's a LLL thing

[barren rover]

Just click uninstall in r2 on LLL and see what pops up in the warning as a reliant mod

check those ones

[arctic sonnet]

Or I just click "associated"

Yeh - LLL controls all the interiors, and it controls that 1 custom moon

[barren rover]

Is that what that button does 😭

[arctic sonnet]

click it lol

nothing bad will happen

other than

https://tenor.com/view/knowledge-tai-lopez-lamborghini-gif-19251888

so let me get this straight

4 of my custom moons needed LE. We obviously nuke LE for LEC and it's fine.

Moons are moving towards LLL and moving away from LE

LLL bugs with advanced company and its control of prices

(But does seem to function with scrap/value multipliers)

[barren rover]

I think i like LEC more right now just because of this bug 😭

[arctic sonnet]

so the maps transitioning from LE to LLL

function

but when they fully transfer - will fuck up?

[lost python]

The only bug I know of LLL is moon price. Otherwise, it's chill

[arctic sonnet]

yeh

[lost python]

Yes

[arctic sonnet]

great 😒

[lost python]

I experienced this with Auralis and Ganimedes

[arctic sonnet]

Auralis didn't have this issue with me tho

Auralis doesn't need LLL

[lost python]

Are you sure 👀

[arctic sonnet]

yeh

That's one of my 8 custom moons working

[lost python]

It's LLL since 0.3.0

unless you haven't updated it then yeah it's fine

same with Ganimedes

[arctic sonnet]

oh ffs-...

it has an update

[lost python]

lmao

[arctic sonnet]

don't tell me that update

[lost python]

yes

[arctic sonnet]

shoves it into LLL

[lost python]

it is what you think it is

[arctic sonnet]

😭

[lost python]

that's why i don't update it yet

[arctic sonnet]

Please tell me it has a fucking config

for prices

[lost python]

no it doesn't

[arctic sonnet]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[lost python]

the only LLL moons that have moon price config are secret labs and atlas abyss

[arctic sonnet]

Starlancer - I swear to god

your map's length is atrociously large

let me customize the hecking price >:x

[lost python]

Well there is this at least 👀

#1194042915840872548 message

(message link to what mod author said about my report)

[arctic sonnet]

Why make it impossible to change prices (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

outside of LLL - did they intend any other method of changing price?

cause I don't think LLL can even do that

It's just a loader, not an editor :<

[lost python]

They were thinking of having a config for moon price change

[arctic sonnet]

why they no do that before ; -;

They took the car keys away

and we're awaiting the manufacturer to install a key slot

what do the other 8 moons have that let AC play kind

[barren rover]

LEC

[arctic sonnet]

;-;

you're telling me the moons function because we have duct tape on them

[barren rover]

LLL doesnt seem to have the crazy support that AC does, so it might be another few days before we get a fix

[lost python]

they're LethalExpansion moons

[arctic sonnet]

if the default moons can be edited so easily, what did all the map devs do to not let their moon prices as easily accessible?

you'd think to just copy what works

[lost python]

It's probably deeper than we think so I don't really have a need to pin it down to them

I still remember the older times of LC modding lmao

[barren rover]

Loaded from the start of the game, vs loaded whenever, idk but i guess

[arctic sonnet]

I wanna think of an excuse ., .'

but I suppose I don't know how hectic the loading of mods is

[barren rover]

I think LLL just has a really agressive way of enforcing the prices

[arctic sonnet]

but the question is - why? ., .

should ensure everything is flexible and editable

[barren rover]

idk i dont make lethal company mods yet

[arctic sonnet]

yet

The server slowly converts people into modders

[barren rover]

I do find it annoying it doesnt have a config where u can just outright disable the price feature

[lost python]

I make some asset replacements and even that kills me. Albeit, I am a total noob and all I can do rn is asset replacements lol

[arctic sonnet]

Hey, you're still a great asset to the company

[lost python]

a great asset to my friend group

[eternal ivy]

No reason, because that statement is bullshit.

[lost python]

they have no need to spend literal hours of coping in troubleshooting

[arctic sonnet]

then how do we edit the auralis moon price o -o

[eternal ivy]

Ask the dev to add config.

[arctic sonnet]

why does it need the dev's permission of a config to modify a price <-<'...

it's a moon

[barren rover]

Every moon shouldnt need its own config to change the price.

[eternal ivy]

It's not about permission. They need to make it configurable.

[barren rover]

Something will inevitably be inconsistent or go wrong if every moon author has to implement the price in their own config

[eternal ivy]

It's not going to magically show up. The system AC has is not that simple either. Potatoe just bothered to implement it.

[arctic sonnet]

I really need an explanation as to how these moons function. We have the blueprint of 8 default moons and their prices (as well as the code of how that works). Why are the default moons just bare open, but the custom moons need custom code to touch it through a moon loader? . ,.'

[eternal ivy]

Because the game itself is not really that moddable.

[lost python]

Yeah the game was made without modding in mind iirc

or so I heard anyway

[arctic sonnet]

games really should learn the world of modding is potential >,>

that's what screwed over hardspace imo

open the world to modding and the game could live ages later

[barren rover]

We need zeekerss to make a proper modding API

[arctic sonnet]

darn hardspace shipbreaker... so much bloody potential. Wasted.

[eternal ivy]

It's a solo dev game, who's young and unexperienced. Plus making game moddable is extra work and needs to be planned from the very beginning.

[arctic sonnet]

all games that garner multiplayer, no anti-cheat, sandbox/roguelite/roguelike-elements - should be thinking of modding off the get go o -o

[barren rover]

Which is why we dont have that rn

[arctic sonnet]

specifically, needs no anti-cheat

[barren rover]

(and theres easily a few million in revenue generated)

[arctic sonnet]

that's depending on if they obviously sell into that

could open the world fully to modding but if your game hits no limelight it's dead in the water

Minecraft hit such a stupid goldilocks zone... ridiculously fortunate. Wasn't mod-focused from the start, and had to change it a bit - but then became mod focused (early enough in development).

I remember the stupidity of when mods were breaking out... had to take like 30 minutes puttin' shit together if you weren't putting a pack in. Only to find out bloody items didn't load like they do now

which I hope zeek's takes a page out of their book

in terms of item loading

[barren rover]

I still dont get why updating minecraft fundamentally breaks everymod, even if they are dependent on like forge

[arctic sonnet]

true

I mean, I could question why the update bricks something like optifine for a god damn 2-3 month period 😅

it's a bloody shader

a lighting engine

[barren rover]

Optifine i understand, it doesnt rely on some API like forge

[arctic sonnet]

they're adding blocks. the light of grass is gonna emit a shadow the same on that block, like it does on the rest

but I guess what do I know as to how they designed it? Maybe it's custom per block/item they've added so they gotta take a day or two just for a new leaf block

but it wouldn't explain how I could shove modded items and they'd cast a shadow, having custom shapes for weapons/devices... 🤷‍♂️

[arctic sonnet]

Now that I think about it, texture packs and resource packs still function up a version

[barren rover]

Minecraft has support for texture packs by default, all the textures are just stored in a big image file, or they used to be along time ago

[arctic sonnet]

If they work between versions, that means what calls upon their textures stays consistent. Why does a mod like treecapitator (any tree-felling mod) brick between an old version to a new one?... It's the same tree . ,.

[barren rover]

No it just means the format the textures are in stays consistent

[arctic sonnet]

but when an update hits, the tree somehow changes?

[barren rover]

The code that the mod relies on to know if a tree is created, if a block is part of a tree, etc.. changes.

[smoky gorge]

a funny thing about official modding apis is they usually end up more limited than unofficial ones, because forcefully breaking open the game to change stuff often lets you do more than the game letting you change stuff from inside of it - most of the time only external modding tools can let you modify every single part of the games code

for minecraft mojang did wanna make an official modding api for a while, but eventually decided "they have forge, it can do more than our api ever could" and just decided to help the modding community by making it easier to decompile their game

but the downside of unofficial modding tools is since they rely on directly ripping into the game's code to change stuff, if the game's code changes even slightly stuff gets broken easily

[arctic sonnet]

I really wanna know how certain things brick. Like, I'm assuming the tree-felling mod goes "Does axe have [enchantment]? Is [Block] a Log? Is there more then one [Same Block] above? Do [Chain Reaction of destroying same logs, following a path of checking blocks 1 block away in any direction for similar logs]"

so like, they could change wording, change comments, change physics, etc

but it's still checking for "is [block] a log?" - the block name should stay the same

so why does anything they change inside that [block] matter if they're just checking for "Is this [Jungle_Log]?"

[barren rover]

If its a treefeller mod thats just checking for adjacent blocks of the same type like veinminer, Its probably simpler than that. It probably just waits for forge to hand it a block break call for a log, than checks for adjacent logs, notes positions, and breaks them.

Which if its only relying on forge for this, idk how it manages to break everyupdate

[arctic sonnet]

I guess we should be looking at forge then

forge is the thing that probably bricks the hardest out of the rest

[barren rover]

is forge fundamentally changing how its calls work every-update, should just be recompile and reupload with new forge version
(in many cases it probably is)

no other game with a modding community seems to have same issue

[arctic sonnet]

yeah- i was about to say

there were mods for this game, that didn't brick after 47 dropped no?

[smoky gorge]

it primarily breaks every update because forge breaks every update, because i assume forge hooks into a lot of internal functions that might change and shift around a tiny bit or sometimes a lot each update

[arctic sonnet]

how can this game's code shift - and some mods seem unafflicted, yet they did just shove the code around a bit and added stuff o -o

[barren rover]

yea, but the information forge hands to mods that rely on it should stay consistent

[arctic sonnet]

Can you believe they update the game with a useless armadillo - and that's why you can't enjoy thaumcraft for a month or two?

😅

[barren rover]

If mojang is gonna burn so much time rewriting every antiquated thing in the game they need to just rewrite the game in its entireity with something that isnt java code from the 2000's

[arctic sonnet]

they probably have the resources to just move it over to something else, huh?

it is technically microsoft now

I think they're a tech company

right? :p

[barren rover]

They already did, bedrock is in C something

[arctic sonnet]

Bedrock also has the ridiculous wither

they can keep that

[barren rover]

Atleast its not gamefreak, complaining about how much pokemon they have to add to a game (they have one hundred billion dollars)

[arctic sonnet]

yeah - they can simply complain about palworld taking their money 🤣 ...

[barren rover]

Imagine having a 100 billion dollar IP, and not being able to innovate really at all for like a decade straight, and then releasing a buggy mess with only half of the content it should have

[arctic sonnet]

Is the cost of it seriously 100 billion atm? (In terms of IP worth)

[barren rover]

sorry, 88 billion

[arctic sonnet]

Huh

that's a lot of dosh

[topaz remnant]

its like a chain reaction if something is updated. for your example, lets say you break a jungle log and you wanna call forge to get the info for [Jungle_Log]."
Instead of getting info from a bunch of different files of minecraft, having something like a table with the logs info and info for other logs in 1 file would be more efficient. Lets say jungle log is 3, and acacia log is 2. If the new minecraft update adds a log called [made up log], and its placed at 2, the table is shifted up by 1.
If you now call for forge to find the info for jungle log, and it searches for 3 in the table, it will instead give you the info for acacia log. If your mod has checks to make sure the thing you broke is the info you're given, suddenly your mod freaks the hell out because you suddenly have info for an acacia log, and if you don't have checks suddenly your falling tree is replaced with acacia logs and possibly missing textures.
Gross oversimplification, but in general with modding api's even the tiniest changes within an update could easily lead to chain reactions where nothing works anymore and you slam your head against a desk for 3 hours cause they decided to add a function called doNothing to the ai you're calling from

[arctic sonnet]

Sorry @barren rover - you were off by a measly 15-ish billion tops. -u -

It's only over 85 billion dollars.

[arctic sonnet]

That's what bricked it out before

when I was talking about how modding was in the past, that screwed up mods cause they did number everything

which is what lethal company suffers rn

not loading items as fledged names

[solid pivot]

Minecraft is using name ids by now tho :3

minecraft:jungle_log

[barren rover]

and treefeller still takes a week to update everytime

[arctic sonnet]

I was trying to find the name of dirt XD

It's something like that. minecraft:dirt

[solid pivot]

Bedrock was their moddable version attempt

[arctic sonnet]

so even if the game updates in 50 more blocks, shouldn't the mod just be checking for the same name

[solid pivot]

:3

[arctic sonnet]

even if the internals of the block change dramatically

[solid pivot]

They added content packs and stuff and I think they are able to do some awesome stuff with it

[arctic sonnet]

the mod doesn't care for anything other than "is this block "Minecraft:[log name]"?

[solid pivot]

Still Java is superior

[arctic sonnet]

what if they just shifted it to something better

is there a better engine for sandboxing?

[barren rover]

Minecraft is the engine

lol

[arctic sonnet]

(I say "Engine" like Java is an engine)

[barren rover]

Bedrock did that

its generally more performant and stable i think

[solid pivot]

And offers tools to create new content/mods

Some maps are insane in Bedrock

[barren rover]

It even has raytracing baked in 😭

[arctic sonnet]

😭

[solid pivot]

Still, most users prefer Java

[barren rover]

Notch used Java and said "i wanna write an entire game in this language"

[solid pivot]

Bedrock was basically a rewrite of Minecraft

[arctic sonnet]

but they rewrote it too late then huh?

[solid pivot]

There were too many mods already, yea

People didnt want to switch

[arctic sonnet]

Hell I don't wanna switch to bedrock 😅

[barren rover]

A lot of people also just dont like the for-profit modding scene of bedrock

[solid pivot]

Modding community was way too big for a change like that

[arctic sonnet]

oh yeah - with those maps

[solid pivot]

yea...

[arctic sonnet]

i've seen a youtuber play through a map or two

don't get me wrong, beautiful

[solid pivot]

Symptom of being owned by Microsoft 🤷‍♂️

[arctic sonnet]

but like... yeah..

So when Update 47 dropped

I didn't recall if Bepin updated

did it update?

[barren rover]

@solid pivot Did you see the issue with LethalLevelLoader prices? Is this something AC can fix or does LLL have to do something

[solid pivot]

Bepin does nothing more than offering a way to overwrite methods and patch them

It doesnt give you access to any game info :D

Its not comparable to something like Forge

[solid pivot]

The LLL dev already said that they might fix that already

[arctic sonnet]

mm..

[barren rover]

But you're so much faster

[arctic sonnet]

also - am I just gonna call it now (probably not the first to call it)

CalculatePolygonPath will be the damn herobrine of this game

never gone

=- =

[eternal mauve]

LOL

[arctic sonnet]

I bet you I'll see that damn error 2 years from now

if i live to that day and can mod in enemies/maps/etc still to that day*

obviously if I perish that bet is impossible -u-'

we'll probably have like 100+ custom moons, 20+ interiors

the most advanced lag-fixing mods out there

and somewhere, deep buried in all that mess

[solid pivot]

In 2 years my game is probably in early access already

:3

[barren rover]

And those 100+ moons will have 30 each that rely on various moon libraries, and then a few will have their own unique way of doing it that completely break the game

[arctic sonnet]

lol

come on

we're early

we can all agree on something while the fire's just starting

[barren rover]

i dont think lethal company has a long life tbh

[solid pivot]

same

[arctic sonnet]

think it'll go the way of pubg in terms of player spike?

[barren rover]

PUBG is still very popular outside of america

[arctic sonnet]

hm

fall guys then?

[barren rover]

Its just a small indie game, and its popular because its fun rather than its story, its game-play loop kind of relies on the unknown and surprising players, while will inevitably dwindle over time

[solid pivot]

mods gave the game a lot of longevity already

But also this might die at some point

[arctic sonnet]

I'm 100% expecting content creators to die down fast already. Hell, maybe in the next month or two

[barren rover]

yea, without mods that "unknown" fuel that keeps the games fire lit wouldve gone out

[topaz remnant]

nah you know how people still watch like GTA V and gmod funny moments? thats kinda what it feels like to me, cause the entire reason people play/watch it is to be funny with friends

[arctic sonnet]

that fucking control company dropped, and every damn recommended new vid of lethal to me by anyone creating content on it

"I freaked my friends out being [monster]"

[barren rover]

GTA V and gmod are sandbox games though, and very readily moddable ones at that

[arctic sonnet]

"I controled the creatures!" -u-

[barren rover]

Gmod at this point is more of a game engine than a standalone title

[arctic sonnet]

eh, but one game did shit over and over around mods - the other had a thousand RP servers

[barren rover]

lethal company has some restriction for how far mods can go, so eventually the well will run dry

[arctic sonnet]

some of that restriction is just between other modders touching things

[solid pivot]

I mean, if someone is willing to invest the time to rewrite the game like Forge does for MC

...

Which is the reason Forge takes time to support new game versions btw

[barren rover]

No its more a theseus ship thing, lethal company has a game-play loop thats very structured, and if you mess with it too much and add so much, you might as well just make an entirely new game with a more flexible structure

[solid pivot]

They basically rewrite huge portions of the game

[arctic sonnet]

ooooooooh- in that regard

I mean

DRG has a gameplay loop that is unchanging. You modify how long it can go, rates of enemies, statistics on guns

[barren rover]

Ig i can see lethal company in the future just having SO MUCH CONTENT that is compatible with eachother, that it can become like a game where it has a simple loop, but all the content gives it some learning curve and and alot more to understand

[arctic sonnet]

it's still damn good even to this day o- o

[solid pivot]

Which is the reason many prefer Fabric btw

as its more lightweight

[arctic sonnet]

a consistent loop can sometimes never run dry

Also

Fabric is insanely fast

[solid pivot]

Forge is older and their ways kept the same to be consistent

[arctic sonnet]

but a lot of mods I like aren't on it >~>

[solid pivot]

Back then you had to rewrite a lot of MC

So they still do it basically to make conversion to new MC versions easier and stay consistent

[barren rover]

Fabric mods also manage to function between updates

[arctic sonnet]

one thing that shocked the living shit out of me is how fast a 120ish modpack loaded with Fabric

[solid pivot]

Fabric came later and had the oppurtunity to do it differently

[arctic sonnet]

it's - STUPID fast

like night and day difference

[barren rover]

its surprising that such a big project like minecraft can exist for so long, and yet theres still modders who improve the performance of the game

[solid pivot]

The MC devs did change a lot about modability in their source code

Refactored code etc.

[arctic sonnet]

if a damn stupid issue happened in a forge pack and you crashed, you literally had to wait a minute or two to get back in and hope it doesn't happen again

in fabric - if you brick. Back in in like 30 seconds

[solid pivot]

But MC went about it very professionally. With an issue tracker and stuff so modders can give feedback of stuff they need changed and so on

Small bugs in the code nobody would recognize

LC doesnt have that level of professionality

[arctic sonnet]

it's all the smal things that count

[solid pivot]

Like at all

There is no team, there is no issue tracker

[barren rover]

One million professional playtesters for free

[arctic sonnet]

well I mean... not havin' a team probably is an issue

hell, I keep wanting (and doing) to tell you to chill the hell out potatoe lol

you can't do everything immediately

[solid pivot]

I mean, some modders are probably willing to join the team and they have huge knowledge of the codebase already.

I could help LC a lot, but I am already employed :)

Zeekeers has the luck of modders being there

So they can pick

[barren rover]

So they can add content way faster than he can on his own

[arctic sonnet]

but that goes against vision

[solid pivot]

Could just hire a modder to refactor the game :D

To make it more mod friendly

Integrating LLL into the game itself for example

Or ACs config system

[arctic sonnet]

the second you let others come in - it goes against your vision of what you want the game to be, so they have to add someone in for the sole purpose of making it more mod friendly and not adding any content visibly/aesthetically.

Who would be the person ye shove in to put in (what may very well be) a permanent addition here or there for modders to use?

[topaz remnant]

idk if zeekeers is willing to do that tho, considering hes never really made a game that went this big that people really wanna mod

[solid pivot]

My prediction is

[topaz remnant]

you need multiple people to shove in, if you hire a single person to rewrite it simply gives them too much power

[solid pivot]

there will be around 3-4 game updates and the game leaves EA

and thats it

tbh

Everything above that is bonus

[arctic sonnet]

Like - you can't be hired Potatoe, but somebody needs to put in a system to load custom moons

who to do it?

[solid pivot]

I am pretty sure some other modders are unemployed rn

[arctic sonnet]

but who'd put the perfect system?

[solid pivot]

Thats up to zeekers to find out :D

[arctic sonnet]

-w -

[solid pivot]

But like I said: From what I can see from the outside

It seems like Zeekeers just want to do some stuff with the game and then probably will end the project from their side :D

It doesnt seem like becoming professional is something in their mind

Which is fair, they dont have to

[barren rover]

Surely they have millions of dollars from this

[arctic sonnet]

if they end it with no future, you know damn well this concept isn't dying entirely

[solid pivot]

I am creating a game with the same base concept :)

[arctic sonnet]

It has shoved a stake into the gaming industry somewhere - and it will perpetuate

[solid pivot]

Building from the ground up with modability in mind

[arctic sonnet]

Maybe not as strong as battle royale

[barren rover]

I hope it gains the same traction LC did

[arctic sonnet]

but it's there.

[solid pivot]

I think LCs formula is perfect for a moddable game

So many ways to add content for modders :)

[ancient sand]

Or even 1, he is millionaire now, he can start another project, or just live the life at easy mode hahaha

[solid pivot]

And my game wont be perfect either but I will make my source available and ask modders for feedback :)

Stuff they need etc.

[topaz remnant]

pretty sure zeekerss wants to do this for a while thats why he has a patreon set up and updates it pretty frequently

[ancient sand]

The issue with this type of games it's that they goes to the top and latter nobody play more, but it have toons of potential

[arctic sonnet]

Zeek's still has a window to shift mod capabilities into focus as well as new content/things. The window isn't small either

[barren rover]

I dont think a paid game that is wildly succesful needs a patreon tbh

[arctic sonnet]

They got like what... easily 4-5 months to keep breathing life into it?

[solid pivot]

lol, they set up patreon after the game came out?

That sounds greedy tbh :D

[ancient sand]

If he adds workshop support will be awesome, like 7 days to die wants to add

[arctic sonnet]

maybe it was up before

you think a steam integration with workshop is smarter than r2? .o .

[ancient sand]

It was before, started as Kickstarter project right?

[solid pivot]

yea, it was before. OK

[ancient sand]

I don't know to be honest, buy will increase mod visibility

[barren rover]

Port lethal company to source engine 😭

[arctic sonnet]

Would steam even agree to allow a game like this to workshop?.. There are so many god damn mods/modpacks 🤣

Steam be like "Our servers are good, no thx"

[solid pivot]

xDDDD

[barren rover]

Someone should add all the halflife assets as a custom scrap pack

[solid pivot]

Zeekeers discovering normal maps

🤣

[barren rover]

I love his use of lidar scanned models

[topaz remnant]

nah bro has had it set up for a long while, like same time the upturned came out

[arctic sonnet]

ngl - and I said this after someone made a fan trailer of the game

the game would scare me so much fucking more - if the textures/looks were more detailed

make the sound better, textures better, and that bracken is gonna make me shit myself

[faint oxide]

Don't we already have a mod for this and this

[barren rover]

Remake it with doom style like that warhammer shooter does

[arctic sonnet]

yeah but I don't use mods to up the textures/sounds

if the base-game did it, I'd be forced to do so 😅

[faint oxide]

Not even lethal resonance?

[arctic sonnet]

nope

don't even know what that does

[faint oxide]

All i will say it will make u shit yourself playing the game

[eternal mauve]

hey whats your thoughts on lethal resonance right now!

hehe :P

[eternal mauve]

mebe

[arctic sonnet]

. - .

this is a very smol-downloaded mod

[eternal mauve]

personally im having a bit of difficulty getting into using it often because of a couple things that always irk me

[arctic sonnet]

wasn't even in the top results, I had to search it x3

[eternal mauve]

especially the doors sounds

[barren rover]

Im afraid to install cause i feel like it will break so much stuff

[arctic sonnet]

same

[ember jungle]

meow

[eternal mauve]

the doors sound SO off to me and it hurts a lil bit :P Pixel said hes planning on changing it though! its just taking a while since its so important

[arctic sonnet]

i mean

it

updated

<50 minutes ago

[faint oxide]

Cause it's new first it was abysal studio then it got absorbed into lethal re

[eternal mauve]

it only breaks sounds, as of right now though it doesn't break anything

[ember jungle]

🐱👍

[arctic sonnet]

lol

coil boy is NOT anyone's favorite

[wide zealot]

You know I wonder if LC_API will finally get a replacement since it's no longer being maintained by anyone, I definitely wouldn't mind lol

[arctic sonnet]

if anything, that bastard is the most hated inside

[barren rover]

How big is it, cus im already pushing 2gb

[arctic sonnet]

55 MB

[barren rover]

not bad

[wide zealot]

Cus otherwise whenever v50 drops it's gonna be dead anyways

[eternal mauve]

yeah its super efficient

[arctic sonnet]

"Giants sound less "crunchy""

what

[faint oxide]

I was playing with it since it was 350mb

[arctic sonnet]

"crunchy"???

[barren rover]

I have 200mb of tiktok videos for the tv 😭

[faint oxide]

It improved alot now

[arctic sonnet]

Potatoe just gonna need to create the all-required LC_API, so that every pack must have AC >:3

[ember jungle]

if you're struggling with coilheads and have AdvancedCompany installed i would suggest going into the monster options and upping the coil-head's power to 3 (and setting the bunker spider to 2 to make up for it), then install KeysLockDoors

[arctic sonnet]

It's only logical.

oh I'm one step ahead of u

I got a mod for lockin' doors just for that bastard

[solid pivot]

Not my aim tbh

[arctic sonnet]

gives use to those useless hallways with a random door

[solid pivot]

I want to be the least invasive so mods dont need to use AC

[barren rover]

If ur struggling with coilheads, lure them into a room with a door, close it on the coilhead

They cant open doors 😭

[arctic sonnet]

they open it eventually

they're bad at it

[ember jungle]

it takes them about 10 seconds to open an unlocked door

[barren rover]

No i think they just respawn somewhere else

[arctic sonnet]

but they do wander-open it eventually

[barren rover]

They always seem to come from some random direction later

[arctic sonnet]

they're fast a f

have you witnessed their wander speed

[arctic sonnet]

it's faster than like - a thumper

[wide zealot]

So btw Potatoe your page says FlashlightFix is included but I still found it's needed, I got the vanilla game bugs with flashlights without it lol

[solid pivot]

I am just glad that I have a nice way in my game for "beating" weeping angels

:>

[barren rover]

Is it secret

[arctic sonnet]

maybe light will affect his

lol

[solid pivot]

My internal wiki is filling up :D

[ember jungle]

no just luck them in

just install KeysLockDoors what else are you gonna use all those keys for

[barren rover]

U should make them unkillable and implement blinking instead

[solid pivot]

My facilities will be way more diverse :3

[arctic sonnet]

is everyone going to gloss over the fact that the damn entry for the coilheads still talk about light affecting them?

[solid pivot]

With elevators and stuff

[ember jungle]

You can't kill coil-heads

[solid pivot]

Air ducts you can crawl in yourself etc.

[arctic sonnet]

Amdy- what mods are you playing with

[wide zealot]

Coil heads are so annoying tbh

[arctic sonnet]

^

[solid pivot]

You will have ways to evade my weeping angels :3

And make them aimless again

[arctic sonnet]

-w-

[solid pivot]

I still think its a huge game design sin to have them work like they do rn

Where you have to sacrifice 1 player basically

Or if you are solo there is no way to really handle them

Better leave 🤣

Just a run ender

I am talking Vanilla

[arctic sonnet]

Are we going to look over this? https://imgur.com/x6Xw1MO

[wide zealot]

Yeah and Insym gripes constantly about how it makes no sense that they use 1 power

[barren rover]

Can u blind them with a flashlight in your game

[solid pivot]

Mods add ways to handle them

Dunno yet, dunno how my weeping angels will look like at all :P

I dont want to copy monster designs

[barren rover]

018d4018-a539-3a17-8e2c-d063e104ad86

[arctic sonnet]

Make it crawl on ceilings or walls

;p

[solid pivot]

haha

[arctic sonnet]

if it has a pair of eyes

[barren rover]

Make it a bug, bugs are cool

[solid pivot]

But as you can enter air ducts etc. there will be enemies in there too

[arctic sonnet]

you have to look down a hall - and just deal with these little eyes in the corner of your vision

in the darkness of some ceiling

knowing if you look away - that bastard is zoomin'

[ember jungle]

Can you make the spiders able to crawl into the ducts

[solid pivot]

haha, maybe, who knows 👀

First step soon is to model a "modular" ship

And then the player model

[ember jungle]

A duct spider would be pretty threatening if you try to go through the route it's guarding

[barren rover]

Way too forgiving without all the configs though

[arctic sonnet]

Potatoe - I honestly cannot believe you have this much on your plate. .-.

[ember jungle]

territorial monster + choke point

[barren rover]

Hes just the GOAT at development

[solid pivot]

I mean, to fight a weeping angel it can be enough to enter an air duct and stay there for a 20s and leave again

[arctic sonnet]

he's literally going to crack the plate

[wide zealot]

I want the in-game models to have the higher res design you see on the AC cosmetics screen

[solid pivot]

It will take some time, its not like my game is gonna coming out in 2 months or anything

[barren rover]

What stage is ur game in

[solid pivot]

Planning

As I invest nearly all my free time in AC

[arctic sonnet]

yus c:

[solid pivot]

Going away from my GDD and building an internal wiki rn

So I can have some friends work on it too

[meager cradle]

Glad mods adds some way for counterplay against some of the enemies considering the domino effect regarding difficulty when something like a Coil is present

[arctic sonnet]

coilheads are poorly powered

[barren rover]

I made coils spawn twice as often where i could lol

[arctic sonnet]

their power level should've been 3 from the get go

I could toy with a bracken and ghost girl easier than a singular coil head

[solid pivot]

Oh and stuff like spawn rarities and hp in my game is all float based :3

I hate the fact that enemies have 3 HP as int

[wide zealot]

Their power level is 1 by default so wouldn't 2 make more sense?

[solid pivot]

You cant do 50% damage increase because you do 1HP damage

[barren rover]

huh??

[solid pivot]

CAnt do 1.5

Lootbug has 3HP

as int

[arctic sonnet]

oooooh

and not float

[solid pivot]

You cant hit it so its left 1.5HP

[arctic sonnet]

so you either have to do 1, or 2

[solid pivot]

Only whole numbers

[arctic sonnet]

can't do in between

[barren rover]

So does the shovel do exactly 1 damage

[solid pivot]

And how the whole item buying is handled...

ask any mod dev here

ANY

its horrible

Dunno what Zeekeers was on when coding that

[arctic sonnet]

but you want it?

[barren rover]

Explain it

[solid pivot]

Must have been some really intense and good stuff

[arctic sonnet]

XD

[solid pivot]

Must have been some amazing mushrooms 🤣

[arctic sonnet]

how horrid could an item buying system be?

just

[solid pivot]

Its the worst I have EVER seen

Like EVER EVER

[arctic sonnet]

[currency] [buy x] [currency - x cost] [add to delivery list] no?

[solid pivot]

The whole save system is the same

It saves items by their position in an array

The buy system buys items by their index in an array

[barren rover]

dictionary with {"item_name": price}, subtract item_prices['item_name'] from some total, call some delivery(item) as a result lol

[solid pivot]

The node has a value "index in that other list"

If you remove any item everything is getting shuffled

[arctic sonnet]

^

That's what I was talking about like 2 hours earlier

hence the Minecraft talk

[solid pivot]

I dont see why this was done. Its not something in Update where optimization would make sense

[arctic sonnet]

Minecraft has their items logged as NAMES

so you could rid, add, etc - any amount of mods

[barren rover]

no way 😭

[arctic sonnet]

and that :Ultra_Pickaxe: will stay the same

[solid pivot]

You never need to optimize single call stuff as long as its not taking like a very long time xD

This is micro optimization

[barren rover]

so its like two lists of items and prices, and its all based on them having the same index?

[solid pivot]

To make it run 0.0002ns faster

[meager cradle]

The scrap thing explains why some stuff got shuffled around when I added Ganimedes to the pack when ImmersiveScrap already existed

[solid pivot]

Totally unnecessary

[arctic sonnet]

Yes

[solid pivot]

Dictionaries are hella fast

[arctic sonnet]

if you add or remove any mod that has items

your item list shifts

I've had tools shift into other tools

[solid pivot]

They use more RAM. But with dictionaries holding 20 items its hardly a problem

[arctic sonnet]

I had a damn item shift into a medkit - but it looked like a diving helmet

[solid pivot]

Its the differene between 1MB and 1.01MB

[barren rover]

Is the item numerical ID just the index that price and name share in 2 lists? 😭

[solid pivot]

Ah

Sale percentages, aye?

They are an array too

An array of the same length as the buyable items

[arctic sonnet]

can you give me an excuse as to why discounts seem more bullshit the more items there are?

[solid pivot]

And the index of the discounted item is used in there too

so if item Flashlight is at index 4 the percentage for that item is at index 4 in that array

[barren rover]

How is the index translated to an item name? There must be some dictionary like thing somewhere

[solid pivot]

If you want to look up what percentage the flashlight has and dont have the information of its place

you have to first look up its position in the one array

No

No dictionary

[barren rover]

Search name array for item name, get index

[solid pivot]

The numbers are only referenced in terminal nodes

[barren rover]

i see

[eternal mauve]

oh my gosh... potatoe your mod lets you spawn inside enemies outside....
thnk u so much

[solid pivot]

So there is a terminal keyword buy

With compatible nouns

And there is a result object which has "buyItem" index

[arctic sonnet]

so "Buy Pro"

[solid pivot]

Referencing the position in the list

Its horrible

@eternal mauve I dont think this works tbh

It just lists all enemies found rn

But increasing the rarity shouldnt work

But I dont know 🤷‍♂️

Havent tested it

[barren rover]

Once on a programming assignment i was making a little interface with a y/n prompt, All i did was check if the input includes 'y' at all and called it a day 😭

[solid pivot]

Maybe use StartsWith instead

Contains could lead to nay beying considered yes

And in C# always use StartsWith("y", StringComparer.OrdinalIgnoreCase)

Its way faster

[wide zealot]

I'd love a replacement for Coroner tbh, it has a habit of desyncing notes lol

[barren rover]

I think im gonna send a chatGPT request and ask it to return y or n depending on what it thinks the prompt implies 😭

[solid pivot]

btw

Always use dictionaries with it too :3

new Dictionary<string, int>(StringComparer.OrdinalIgnoreCase);

If no case is needed

this boosts the performance of string key dictionaries a lot

I mean

Dictionaries ARE faster for stuff like indexing stuff

IndexOf is very slow

its O = n

[eternal mauve]

moons that spawn indoor enemies outside are correctly showcased in AC - i think you got everything right
Ex: infernis spawns spiders outside, and through your configs you can see spiders spawn OUTSIDE with a set weight
kind of insane that you have this level of compat

[solid pivot]

Getting dictionary items is O(1)

O(1) < O(n)

[barren rover]

id imagine youd have to have some counter keeping track of the current index of whatever item is being evaluated, whereas on a dictionary youd just have to return whatever value when the match is found, less logic inbetween checking keys

[solid pivot]

Dictionaries use Hashtables making them hella fast

At the cost of RAM

[barren rover]

Modern computer have so much RAM

[solid pivot]

You can imagine it as buckets

Every string has a representation as int, a hash code

There can be conflicts in hash codes but they will lead to strings being put in the same bucket

[eternal mauve]

whats o?

[solid pivot]

Complexitiy of an algorithm

O(n) = Worst case its running over all items once

O(1) = It only needs to do one thing

basically

One operation

So if a list has 200 elements

In worst case an O(n) algorithm will have to do 200 checks

O(1) only one

O(n²) will have to do 40000 checks

But yea, stuff is put into buckets by their hashcode so they can instantly be found

[barren rover]

How the hell do you end up with O(n^2)? for every element in a list, check ever element of the list again??

[solid pivot]

"test" is 2921831283 for example and if you ask the system to give you back the item with the key "test"

it generates the hashcode 2921831283 and instantly finds it

for (var i = 0; i < n; i++)
for (var j = 0; j < n; j++)

Thats n²

two strings might have the same hashcode

if "test1" and "test2" create hashcode 1000 both

it will be a list of 2 elements so it has to compare both items

[eternal mauve]

hashcode is related to something in a... uh, hashmap?

[solid pivot]

But you can ignore that impact :)

Hashcodes are a representation of any object by a number

Important for a hashcode is that the same input always lead to the same output

[barren rover]

Whats the significance of the number without having to have some other structure to tell the system what memory adress the number would point to

[solid pivot]

The better your hashcode generation is, the less conflicts will happen

[barren rover]

Or does it just speed up comparisons

[solid pivot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsfRsGFHuv4

hashes are divided by modulo operation :)

So if you have a hashcodes 1000 % 10 it will be put into bucket 0

you can define the buckets you have in a hashtable

have to look up how many C# uses by default :3

public static readonly int[] primes = {
3, 7, 11, 17, 23, 29, 37, 47, 59, 71, 89, 107, 131, 163, 197, 239, 293, 353, 431, 521, 631, 761, 919,
1103, 1327, 1597, 1931, 2333, 2801, 3371, 4049, 4861, 5839, 7013, 8419, 10103, 12143, 14591,
17519, 21023, 25229, 30293, 36353, 43627, 52361, 62851, 75431, 90523, 108631, 130363, 156437,
187751, 225307, 270371, 324449, 389357, 467237, 560689, 672827, 807403, 968897, 1162687, 1395263,
1674319, 2009191, 2411033, 2893249, 3471899, 4166287, 4999559, 5999471, 7199369};

I think it uses prime numbers :)

So if you add 200 elements it will use 239 buckets and so on

[barren rover]

ok so it takes some number representation, uses modulo to bring down to some value between 0 and modulo, and then that is used to find what it associates with on an array?

[solid pivot]

Yes :D

There are many different ways to handle Hashtables and I am sure there are many custom dictionaries on GitHub

nested buckets for example for very big dictionaries

[barren rover]

And if theres no number representation provided with the string? is the string just hashed with its value in binary?

[solid pivot]

The string is actually hashed by its binary representation :P I think its basically a XOR over all chars

Or smth like that

I can look up the hashcode function of string

OK, its a bit more complicated

        public override int GetHashCode() {

#if FEATURE_RANDOMIZED_STRING_HASHING
            if(HashHelpers.s_UseRandomizedStringHashing)
            {
                return InternalMarvin32HashString(this, this.Length, 0);
            }
#endif // FEATURE_RANDOMIZED_STRING_HASHING

            unsafe {
                fixed (char *src = this) {
                    Contract.Assert(src[this.Length] == '\0', "src[this.Length] == '\\0'");
                    Contract.Assert( ((int)src)%4 == 0, "Managed string should start at 4 bytes boundary");

#if WIN32
                    int hash1 = (5381<<16) + 5381;
#else
                    int hash1 = 5381;
#endif
                    int hash2 = hash1;

#if WIN32
                    // 32 bit machines.
                    int* pint = (int *)src;
                    int len = this.Length;
                    while (len > 2)
                    {
                        hash1 = ((hash1 << 5) + hash1 + (hash1 >> 27)) ^ pint[0];
                        hash2 = ((hash2 << 5) + hash2 + (hash2 >> 27)) ^ pint[1];
                        pint += 2;
                        len  -= 4;
                    }

                    if (len > 0)
                    {
                        hash1 = ((hash1 << 5) + hash1 + (hash1 >> 27)) ^ pint[0];
                    }
#else
                    int     c;
                    char *s = src;
                    while ((c = s[0]) != 0) {
                        hash1 = ((hash1 << 5) + hash1) ^ c;
                        c = s[1];
                        if (c == 0)
                            break;
                        hash2 = ((hash2 << 5) + hash2) ^ c;
                        s += 2;
                    }
#endif
#if DEBUG
                    // We want to ensure we can change our hash function daily.
                    // This is perfectly fine as long as you don't persist the
                    // value from GetHashCode to disk or count on String A 
                    // hashing before string B.  Those are bugs in your code.
                    hash1 ^= ThisAssembly.DailyBuildNumber;
#endif
                    return hash1 + (hash2 * 1566083941);
                }
            }
        }

https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource/blob/master/mscorlib/system/string.cs

You can see the .NET source code for yourself

A note tho: GetHashCode() doesnt guarantee the same hashes anytime you restart the application.

So for network synching stuff its recommended to use your own stable GetHashCode

I mean its the best way to handle item buying over network btw

as Hashcodes are just an int

But you must have a fallback for collisions

Which is the problem using them in networking

I guess this was the reason indexes were used in the first place btw

For buying items

But buying items isnt something you do every frame xD

And the impact of having the string "proflashlight" vs 7 isnt that big of a deal

And if you think it is, just add an ID to the items

Which the game does

but totally ignores them everywhere

xD

And dont give users the ability to set the ID

make the lobby sync the IDs and names at handshake

[barren rover]

i.e. Dont hash the item bought and sent that to client, send the name or id of the item to clients to hash locally?

[solid pivot]

Like a protocol message

"Hey client, my pro flashlight is ID 7"

"So if I tell you I bought ID 7, we mean Pro Flashlight, mkay?"

And client is like "Roger that. ID 7 = Pro flashlight"

[arctic sonnet]

does any of this

[solid pivot]

That way mods can just add items and the host/client negotiate the IDs

[arctic sonnet]

excuse why discounts seem to be rarer

the more you add

[solid pivot]

Dunno if they are rarer

There is a limited amount of discounts available per round I think

So having 50 items and only 2 discounts isnt much

Oh yea

They are rarer when you deactivate objects

As deactivated objects can still get a discount

But yea, I can at least tell you that my game wont make the same mistakes

There will be a solid protocol negotiation at handshake

[arctic sonnet]

Narrator: "There was no, solid protocol negotiation at launch"

[barren rover]

Biggest game ive ever made was snake in a console window 🙏

[solid pivot]

:P

🤣

When $STEAMROOT is ""....

rm -rf /

🤣

[barren rover]

Remove all directories

[solid pivot]

Remove everything

/ in linux is the root

Basically in windows the explorer window when showing your volumes

So its a remove all from there

Remove all hard drives xD

And all network drives too 🤣

[arctic sonnet]

jesus ._.

[barren rover]

incredible

[arctic sonnet]

how did they even allow that to patch?

[solid pivot]

everything is mounted to root in linux

If you do stuff like that code you always have to use some failsafe

:3

rm -rf is scary

[faint oxide]

Do u see the #scary

[solid pivot]

Scarier than a coilhead

[faint oxide]

They know it's scary but they had failsafes but that user was just unlucky

[arctic sonnet]

what was unlucky about the user

[barren rover]

Theres a safer way to do it that probably avoids the whole "/" all together

[solid pivot]

at least steams doesnt require root permissions

so it wont delete your OS X)

Oh, the video also states the "scary" thing

funny how lingo is the same among all programmers x)

[barren rover]

@faint oxide Do you live in alaska?

[solid pivot]

rm -rf is scary

[faint oxide]

Tldr he tried to swap steam dir and do something like shortcut to it but when he launched steam it didn't register the new dir and crashed then he launched it again it invoked the rm rf and tried to install again

[faint oxide]

Wait why

[barren rover]

Because ur name says [Ak]

[solid pivot]

But it shows how stuff can fail :)

[barren rover]

😭

[solid pivot]

In unexpected ways

[arctic sonnet]

that's the whole reason QA exists

[solid pivot]

Very good example of how seemingly fine code can fail in certain situations

[faint oxide]

Nah i live in egypt and the ak is my initials

[arctic sonnet]

no matter how flawless you think you make something

throw 1000 people at it

somebody'll find an issue

[barren rover]

We got the same initials

[arctic sonnet]

we just need to find 45 more of you, so we can get the aptly named AK47

[barren rover]

Initials: AK State: AK

https://pastebin.com/YmSi1aJf
What would u rate my snake game out of 10

[solid pivot]

Did you use ChatGPT? 🤔

[barren rover]

no

😭

[solid pivot]

:'D

its okay, I guess :D

There are many ways to do snake

But this part is weird

    if (length<=100 && width<=100) {
        char choice;
        //Clear screen, display game settings, and ask user if they would like to change now
        clear();
        printf("Game size is %dx%d, game area is %d\n", width, length, width*length);
        printf("Framerate set to %0.2f, screen will update every %0.2fs\n", speed, 1/speed);
        printf("USE THE WASD KEYS TO CONTROL SNAKE\n");
    //But it works fine, idek why i print this..
        printf("DO NOT HOLD KEYS DOWN, ONLY PRESS KEYS\n");
        printf("Press \"Y\" if you wish to edit these settings\nOr press enter to start game");
        //capture users decision
        fflush(stdin);
        scanf("%c", &choice);
        //Check for y
        if (choice != 'y') {
            //set the delay struct correctly
            delay.tv_sec= (int)(1/speed);
            delay.tv_nsec= (long)((1000000000)*((1/speed)-delay.tv_sec));
            //Center the head (or close to center)
            snake[head].x = (int)(width/2);
            snake[head].y = (int)(length/2);
            status = 1;
            break;
            }
            //This will return control to outside of the "game-start" loop
        } else {
        //If width and length are wrong tell the user and restart loop after 
        clear();
        printf("Invalid width and/or length\n Press enter to continue...");
        scanf("%c");
        }
    }

The else is at the wrong place

[barren rover]

yea i was just looking at it

[solid pivot]

    if (length<=100 && width<=100) {
        char choice;
        //Clear screen, display game settings, and ask user if they would like to change now
        clear();
        printf("Game size is %dx%d, game area is %d\n", width, length, width*length);
        printf("Framerate set to %0.2f, screen will update every %0.2fs\n", speed, 1/speed);
        printf("USE THE WASD KEYS TO CONTROL SNAKE\n");
    //But it works fine, idek why i print this..
        printf("DO NOT HOLD KEYS DOWN, ONLY PRESS KEYS\n");
        printf("Press \"Y\" if you wish to edit these settings\nOr press enter to start game");
        //capture users decision
        fflush(stdin);
        scanf("%c", &choice);
        //Check for y
        if (choice != 'y') {
            //set the delay struct correctly
            delay.tv_sec= (int)(1/speed);
            delay.tv_nsec= (long)((1000000000)*((1/speed)-delay.tv_sec));
            //Center the head (or close to center)
            snake[head].x = (int)(width/2);
            snake[head].y = (int)(length/2);
            status = 1;
            break;
            }
            //This will return control to outside of the "game-start" loop
        }
    }
else {
        //If width and length are wrong tell the user and restart loop after 
        clear();
        printf("Invalid width and/or length\n Press enter to continue...");
        scanf("%c");
        }

And you need to close the while afterwards

so the loop restarts

[barren rover]

"Check for y" "if choice != "y""

[solid pivot]

Thats why I asked if it was ChatGPT

typical errors ChatGPT does

I mean, ChatGPT is very stoopid

People think its so intelligent only showing their level of intelligence

https://tenor.com/view/peepo-dance-pepe-cool-gif-15777418

ChatGPT is an elaborated auto completion tool :3

[barren rover]

Ill give it some repetitive thing to do, like "take this and remove all new lines" and it still somehow includes the newlines

[solid pivot]

But yea, its fascinating how capable it is of course

But far away from being intelligent

[barren rover]

I hate how it always assumes ur right

[solid pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/idiocracy-dumb-gif-22939957

Thats ChatGPT

[barren rover]

😭

[solid pivot]

But yea, ChatGPT is capable of replacing some jobs already

As some jobs just dont require that much intelligence to begin with :<

[barren rover]

chatgpt would push the circle all the way through with the blue block instead of trying to put it in the circle hole

[solid pivot]

I mean, AI will inevitably lead to a more social world. At least it has the potential to do so

[barren rover]

"Ok, ill seperate every other line instead!"

[solid pivot]

But there are many questions unanswered for. If AI is able to automate food production, what happens in case of an overpopulation the earth simply cant feed?

Will be fun times ahead

I mean, I love the basic idea of communism but it always fails at the human nature. Giving people free access to bare necessities like food and water is a noble goal.

But this might also lead to doom

🤷‍♂️

Guess we have to f around to find out :D

Cant stop the f'ing around rn

They are f'ing around a lot

[barren rover]

Online communist often think theyll be the communist artist and not the communist coal miner

[arctic sonnet]

I have a meme for this, but I can't find it ;-;

[solid pivot]

Hope the find out phase wont be that horrible

@barren rover yea....

They think they will become artists and leaders :3

In reality they either end in gulag or in the coal mines

[barren rover]

Like work still has to get done, You just dont get to decide exactly what that work will do, or how the fruits of that work will be rewarded

[solid pivot]

But when we have AI for such stuff communism is a real option

For the first time in humanitys history

I mean, capitalism is by no means a perfect system

[eternal ivy]

Except there is. You just get them to the door at an angle and exit.

[solid pivot]

Nobody claims so either

Yes but when you enter again they will hunt you down again

So its a run ender

Better leave. Offense can spawn coilhead the moment you land

[barren rover]

Perfect system is impossible

[solid pivot]

Of course it is. Capitalism so far is the most successful system we had and its leading to less poverty overall

Humans today are living way better lives than 100 years ago

[gritty roost]

"Just get better bro" - some dude

[eternal ivy]

They wander off when you exit and take a lot of time to open doors.

I think the main issue is their power level being 1.

[solid pivot]

I am really looking forward to what AI will lead us

[gritty roost]

I have noticed that if you close a door and walk a bit away the coil heads will generally just forget you and go away

Which is good imo, more mobs (like the giant) should lose interest in you and roam more often

[barren rover]

Its a hard step to make, It kind of has to happen simultaneously with giving the now unemployed new benefits

[solid pivot]

Yea. The change in work required will be hard

Unemployment rates will skyrocket at some point

[barren rover]

Hopefully we make it far enough as a species to see the fruits of AI, theres a worrying amount of people who still believe in a flat earth 😭

[solid pivot]

xDDD

[gritty roost]

Company so advanced we're already talking about AI controlling us

[arctic sonnet]

tis the same when farming machines were created

it did take out like 90% of agricultural jobs

that was a sizeable chunk... still is

[eternal ivy]

Remind me, can you change power level of entities in AC?

[solid pivot]

Yes

[barren rover]

Yea but all that still requires some level of human ingenuity, AI aims to replicate how a human thinks, thinking is our only valuable asset

[arctic sonnet]

granted, positions opened up for techs to repair the farming equipment, manufacture the new stuff, science around the crops itself, etc

[solid pivot]

Yea, people will find new jobs I guess

But its a paradigm change

[arctic sonnet]

but do you think the farmer that got fired because they created the tractor - has motivation to be a bioengineer? ., .

[solid pivot]

And a big one

[barren rover]

Tool for a life form vs another "life form"

[solid pivot]

And with it comes a lot of dangers I feel like we dont really care for rn tbh :D

[arctic sonnet]

Tis one thing that people gotta realize. Yes when something takes over for jobs (like AI or machinery) - other jobs open. But the people who lost their jobs most likely don't have the qualifications for the doors that opened

[solid pivot]

The excitement is too huge. We'll see where this ends

I mean, AIs could be killed soon anyway

If courts decide they werent allowed to learn from other artists pictures etc. to learn painting

[barren rover]

But at a point AI is able to perform those jobs too. Just as humans are able to self-replicate to perform jobs that require humans

[solid pivot]

And that its a copyright infringment to do so

But my assumption is that courts wont decide that way

[arctic sonnet]

AI's rate of learning is extremely fast in comparison

[solid pivot]

As copyright states that transformative stuff is allowed

And AI is basically doing exactly that

[arctic sonnet]

yeh

I feel pity for those in the art world when it comes to simple digital things. AI could probably make emotes for twitch for me if I wanted it .- .

but then again, there are all those bloody bots..

[solid pivot]

AI already is doing that

[arctic sonnet]

"Look at my portfolio"

[solid pivot]

I can tell you that many game studios use AI nowadays for concept art too

I will use it for concept art as well

🤷‍♂️

Its cheaper

[barren rover]

I kinda do, but at the end of the day art isnt a commodity, it doesnt have any inherent value besides the personality of the person who created it

[arctic sonnet]

it can give them a great advantage to figure out how something should be drawn

they have all the puzzle pieces but just don't know how to market it in an image

AI can fill it in

give em a blueprint

[solid pivot]

A person can still make a more customized concept art but I am just doing my indie game

Dont need that level of communication with a real person to create a perfect concept art

A 90% good concept art is enough for me

[arctic sonnet]

yeh . ,.

[solid pivot]

And AI is capable of that

[barren rover]

it is inevitable that AI art WILL replace the human artist for basically everything where art is needed as a necessity

[arctic sonnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/285892492522684416/1199714915825483967/bN6XFeUPrvlx10KT.mp4?ex=65c38c95&is=65b11795&hm=d215fc1b803ad42945e70369dc7515a1e5a886fa985a07e50751aee651c15d38&

[solid pivot]

xD

[solid pivot]

Exactly. Art wont die tho. It will become more pure

Art for the sake of being art

And not to make capital :D

[barren rover]

Art will do what its always done, the artist will be more important than the art they produce.

[arctic sonnet]

everything needs to make capital if you wanna live

tis what we built

I say "we" - but it's the millions before we've existed

[solid pivot]

There will always be the art community and art collectors

[barren rover]

There will always be a market for things that are "hand-made"

Especially in a world with AI where it will become harder to come by

[solid pivot]

But yea, I guess there wont be as many artists

[arctic sonnet]

I can imagine an AI creating a necklace

or a bracelet

lol

[solid pivot]

Or better: Artists will adapt. Big studios using AI are still using artists for detail work

They basically create a base image and artists work on that

Its faster that way

[arctic sonnet]

first it's "Made in the USA" As the big thing here. Now it'll just be "Made by human"

[solid pivot]

And you have the best of both worlds

[barren rover]

Artists can focus more on ideas than mechanical skill

[arctic sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/artbasel-con-banana-gif-15785664

[solid pivot]

xD

Its the message!

You just dont understand art 🤷‍♂️

[arctic sonnet]

i can't believe that shit happened

[solid pivot]

🤣

[arctic sonnet]

like

[solid pivot]

Duct tape a banana to a wall

become rich

[arctic sonnet]

I believe people fall for an NFT scam for the 5th time, before I believe this story

[solid pivot]

Square Enix still wants to invest in dead NFTs

Ubisoft too

[arctic sonnet]

they're obviously smart

[solid pivot]

NFTs are long dead

[ornate zealot]

That happens all the time. It’s fine. Either tell the host to kick you, or restart the game. In either scenario, you just need to rejoin the lobby.

[arctic sonnet]

christ almighty pedro

[ornate zealot]

Yeah i got here like 6 hours late i know

[arctic sonnet]

I clicked that message and went back in time XD

[ornate zealot]

i just woke up

[ornate zealot]

I’m 90% sure that it isn’t a specific mod that even causes it. It just happens when joining a lobby sometimes.

[solid pivot]

Pedros time machine 🤷‍♂️

[arctic sonnet]

is it weird that idgaf about NFTs or people buying em - just how dumb people can be buying into one from known dead-ends?

[marble zealot]

i was the host

[solid pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-treehouse-of-horror-homer-simpson-time-travel-screaming-gif-20445907

[arctic sonnet]

Like - have em, fine. But why the hell are you buyin' em from someone who's a known scammer, or a company that has no good intentions? o- o

(if a company ever had good intentions to begin with-)

[marble zealot]

and it caused weird stuff like 0/0 quota was very odd

[solid pivot]

NFTs are a scam anyway. People claiming you buy an "image". You buy a URL in the blockchain leading to an image which can be removed at any time.

[arctic sonnet]

This is the nameless bug isn't it

[solid pivot]

Putting binary of an image into the blockchain would be way more expensive

Its a short URL and the person hosting that image at that location can just remove that image at any time

You have 0 control and own nothing

[arctic sonnet]

NFTs literally is just the steam marketplace - not on steam. Branded as if you own it due to a code that has to fit in some chain - but it doesn't

[solid pivot]

But a worthless URL in the blockchain

[arctic sonnet]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[solid pivot]

Same thing when Ubisoft starts their NFT items stuff

as soon as they decide to cancel the game

All your NFTs are basically becoming worthless

NFTs only make money for one person

The person creating them

And scamming others because of the lack of regulations

[arctic sonnet]

I see a lot of digital currencies trying to make it since bitcoin became big

has there been a "bitcoin" of nfts?

[solid pivot]

Dunno tbh. I see NFTs as a scam from the get go. No practical use

It was an attempt to give the blockchain some practical use which wasnt a great idea to begin with

[arctic sonnet]

There has to be something that caught on for it to spread like this

[solid pivot]

Bitcoin and all other crypto coins have a major flaw

Their blockchain offer no pratical real world value use

[arctic sonnet]

it's like Minecraft with the royale, then PubG hit it big, then fortnite, etc

[solid pivot]

Besides buying drugs from the darknet

[arctic sonnet]

something had to start it

[solid pivot]

Thats their sole reason for existence tbh

And why it has value

[arctic sonnet]

bitcoin was the starter?

[solid pivot]

Yea

And all those darknet marketplaces make it worth anything

[arctic sonnet]

a blockchain but for something that isn't just "currency"

[solid pivot]

as you could buy illegal porn, weapons and drugs with it without being traceable back to you

[arctic sonnet]

makes sense o- o

[solid pivot]

You hid the paper trail money usually leaves

Thats why bitcoin became valueable in the first place

Then speculants came :P

[arctic sonnet]

Ye ever wonder if the guy that bought that pizza for 10000 bitcoin (was it 10,000?) ever hated himself for the purchase

[solid pivot]

And now its basically a less regulated stock exchange :'D

And people use it to circumvent regulations to do shady stuff

[arctic sonnet]

which, oddly enough, gives it more value

to be used

[solid pivot]

Remove regulations from the stock exchange and youll see the value of companys go skyrocket

xD

Regulations are there to make the market somewhat fair

[arctic sonnet]

'fair'

[solid pivot]

Preventing insider trades etc.

Market manipulation

[arctic sonnet]

when 95%+ of americans own <1% of the stocks -w-'

[solid pivot]

Stuff like that still happens but its illegal

Most go unnotices probably

[arctic sonnet]

or was it 0.1%

[solid pivot]

But the worst manipulations will lead to convictions

[arctic sonnet]

hold up, fact checkin'-

[solid pivot]

Overall the difference between rich and poor is horrible

[arctic sonnet]

The bottom 50% of Americans own <0.5% of stocks.

[solid pivot]

But poor people today live a way better life than 100 years ago. So overall "richness" is rising

[arctic sonnet]

whilst "The 1%" own over 50%

[solid pivot]

Problem is that more and more people are hitting the ground level of wealth

So they are basically only carried with the overall wealth

They become wealthier overall but no individual wealth whatsoever

[arctic sonnet]

I hate but don't disagree with the term "carried" 😅

tis sad -w -

[solid pivot]

It is

[arctic sonnet]

oh- I have a gif reaction to that

[solid pivot]

And its a major flaw in capitalism

[arctic sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/offended-agree-gif-18718132

[solid pivot]

More and more people will find themself here in the wealth spectrum

But overall that bar is moving in that direction

The poor from 100 years ago isnt the poor from today

This is one of the advantages of capitalism. The pressure to innovate and by that making all people wealthier overall

But at the same time splitting the divide between poor and rich is the flaw that comes with it

🤷‍♂️

[arctic sonnet]

And the bar moving that way only urges prices to go up because others are trying to compete to move to the right

so those stuck in the back - more or less are stuck in the back

[solid pivot]

And a person born in 2000 dont care what poor meant in 1900

They feel poor in 2020

Feeling poor didnt really change as its always relative

There will always be stuff only accessible by rich people

[arctic sonnet]

I think I'd argue I'm not poor the day I'm content with everything. I could win the lottery but if I don't find a passion 'n love - I'd still be pretty damn poor.

Money can buy a lot of distractions though 😒

[solid pivot]

True

Fun distractions, yea

You can cope and distract till end of life very good

I mean, look at Notch

He became rich but unhappy

[arctic sonnet]

Indeed

Honestly- if the game was still his passion

[solid pivot]

He was happier when he had his game and I think if you ask him today he would go back and dont sell

[arctic sonnet]

he should've just stuck it

I sort of ask myself "Why sell" when I see shit on shark tank

[solid pivot]

Living in California as a rich person is basically the definition of having only superficial relationships

[arctic sonnet]

Some upcoming company goes up "Yeah, we made 100k first year, this year we made 2.5 million"

[solid pivot]

People hanging around with you because you are rich

[arctic sonnet]

Me: "Why the fuck are you selling?"

[arctic sonnet]

New York in some places is like that too.

[solid pivot]

Not very fulfilling tbh

If I were as rich as Notch I would build me a home somewhere in the countryside :D

Or buy an island

[arctic sonnet]

lol