[BETA v0.1.6] LethalModManager https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/kyxino/LethalModManager/

[dull hawk]

Once I'm awake, I can't exactly go back to sleep.

[gray snow]

rip

[burnt tulip]

real

[dull hawk]

Alright, back to work.

[finite herald]

Real

[dull hawk]

Well, been making things a lot easier for me, so now I'll be able to handle some stuff a lot better.

[pastel geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/sukuna-laugh-gif-23588521

Don’t listen to them work on it til you have no will to live

[dull hawk]

Lol

[dull hawk]

I also fixed an annoying misalignment with the UI that was caused after I did my own grid UI implementation.

[zinc spindle]

hows it going rn

[surreal cove]

howsa progress

[dull hawk]

Changed up some of the logic with that because I realized I wasn't handling it properly in the first place. Then I left to hang out with some friends, but I'm back and ready to continue the grind.

[dull hawk]

Even though I pretty much redid some stuff today, I've made some better progress, so things will be more stable/reliable now that I've undone my screw ups. Lol

[surreal cove]

bet

[dull hawk]

Idk why I say some stuff when I practically just redid the entire thing for the UI. LOL

(For the mod slots.)

(Basically for any programmers here, I was being stupid and wasn't doing OOP for the mod slots, so I had to store data in different dictionaries with the key being the mod slot's transform instead of just making a class inheriting MonoBehavior and what not storing that data instead so that I could iterate better through that data.)

(One of the main things I'm good at in programming is using OOP when necessary, and this was quite literally the most necessary thing, but I was for some reason braindead for that, so I never did it until last night because I finally realize I was being stupid, and made it much harder to add functionality to it.)

[dull hawk]

I will go ahead and say that it is VERY unlikely for the release to be out today, maybe tomorrow, we'll see, I won't try to raise the hype back up until I know for certain a bit more this time.

Just trying to fix up the code a bit to add the final features so that it isn't very duct tape and popsicle stick-like.

[dull hawk]

Alright, fixed quite a bit of UI stuff, also fixed inactive mod slots taking up an entire spot due to how the calculations previously worked.

(Even though the latter would never really happen, if I ever did, it is now fixed.)

Calculations are more exact and doesn't break when the window gets to a wonky size.

[surreal cove]

awseome, im just hoping thr mod will relewse by the weekend

[dull hawk]

It definitely should, but it will have to be sooner because my grandparents are coming over for my birthday this weekend.

With the changes I've made today, it should help me release this tomorrow or the day after, we will soon see.

[surreal cove]

Happy early birthday

honestly i am also taking a break from LC, im just looking for new mods. But i got burnt out from it, its not boring, but i dont want it to become boring by playing it to much. So like a 2 week break should make it fressh again

[dull hawk]

Haha, thanks.

[dull hawk]

Ah, yeah, and some things doesn't seem to be changing very much in the modding community.

I don't ever hear of anything big and different anymore.

(Then again, I've been living under a rock due to LMM's development.)

[dull hawk]

WOW, okay, I made reloading so much nicer.

Oh, right, reloading Thunderstore* data.

(LC quick reload is already done.)

It no longer stops the program at all.

uh

Alright, apparently changing the page while reloading crashes Unity?

[dull hawk]

Alright, well, got to do my own implementation for some other UI stuff apparently.

Thanks Unity for sucking at UI.

[dull hawk]

Wow, in one line, I figured out how to do it perfectly without crashing.

Unity is smart, totally.

Uh, somehow it seems like mod logos download faster in Thunderstore search?

Man, I love this so much.

no but seriously, at first i didnt even touch them and now they are a LOT faster

idk how this makes sense

Oh, btw, I fixed the times since it used local timezones rather than UTC.

(before it would give a negative seconds time)

casually finding interesting mods with LMM

[dull hawk]

Well, that definitely helped speed up development because I was really trying to figure out what the heck was causing crashes.

Also, refresh Thunderstore data is a lot smoother and will not brick everything anymore.

(it didn't do that before, instead it would just halt the process until it was done)

dang it

[finite herald]

This is like the third epstein mod I’ve seen what

[dull hawk]

Yeah, idk, LC just seems to like this type of thing. Lol

[dull hawk]

Haha, I already fixed it, but Unity still logs the error now. (It at least no longer crashes.)

OH

PART OF IT IS DUE TO THE THING I JUST REDONE BECAUSE I'VE YET TO COMPLETELY TAKE IT OUT.

WOW

THANKS UNITY.

[finite herald]

pfffft

[tropic gull]

whenever you rant about the coding, im here just like

or just generally talking about it im just

https://tenor.com/view/jfk-clone-high-i-like-your-funny-words-magic-man-jack-black-gif-18659433

[surreal cove]

lol

[dull hawk]

Lol

Anyway, while laying in bed, I just realized how I can easily handle the whole rejoining lobbies with the same mods and configs without having to Quick Reload every time.

That was one of the biggest problems I wanted to solve before beta release, and now I think I know how.

[sage socket]

Hell yeah!

[dull hawk]

Perfect.

[burnt tulip]

what minecraft enchantment is this

[dull hawk]

It's the Unity enchantment. Lol

[oblique marten]

atlas texture bugs are always silly looking lol

[dull hawk]

That's just Unity's text rendering. Lol

[oblique marten]

but I assume the cause was some UV mapping issue on the font atlas texture?

idk, it just looks like it to me

[zinc spindle]

How’s it looking @dull hawk

[dull hawk]

Tbf, all rendering involves textures, even text. I was just noting that it wasn't DIRECTLY textures.

[dull hawk]

Just got done eating, so I'm about to do something that should fix anymore issues happening.

[oblique marten]

oh yeah, my point isn't about it being a texture mapping issue, but that it looks stranger because it's on an atlas

[dull hawk]

Ah, yeah.

[oblique marten]

it's a lot less fun when you just have the texture bounds clamped or repeating

[dull hawk]

Yeah, idk what Unity is doing in this case.

They just offed themselves randomly.

(Maybe I should replace their text rendering with my own? )

kidding no

[zinc spindle]

Nice nice. You think release today?

[dull hawk]

I don't want to start hype just for another issue to occur, I've been eliminating LMM's own issues, but now I'm eliminating Unity's issues.

Maybe today, could be tomorrow.

It isn't that much longer for sure though.

[zinc spindle]

Awesome

[pearl plover]

the more you ask the more it gets delayed

[dull hawk]

Man, that applies heavily when my mom would rush me to get ready for school back then. LOL

[pearl plover]

honestly just double down on it

removes as much pressure

why stress over a hobby

[elder coral]

Set a hard release date for 6 months time

Get it done tomorrow, and withhold it for all those who poke

[dull hawk]

Eh, not as much of a hobby as it is just my life. All I do is program and that's been over half my life. If I don't do it, I get anxious and stressed. Might as well have less anxiety/stress by doing this type of thing rather than not and having it worsen.

[dull hawk]

Lol, oh gosh no.

[zinc spindle]

i dont mean to poke im genuinely just asking how its going with the progress of the project

[elder coral]

I think everyone's just playing you're good

[pearl plover]

you’re not paid for it and you enjoy it right

[dull hawk]

No, we are for real, put your hands up.

[dull hawk]

Yep.

[pearl plover]

then it sounds like a hobby to me 👉😎👉

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I just think of hobbies as things you may spend a lot of time on, but not literally making it your life.

So in that case, it is a very massive hobby of mine, haha.

[pearl plover]

yeah it’s still a hobby

try gym, if you don’t go for a few days you start to physically feel awful

[dull hawk]

Actually, I weirdly feel better by not doing Karate for a while.

I will be working out soon this month though.

[elder coral]

Programming is life. Eating, drinking and sleeping are the hobbies

[dull hawk]

(We have a gym in our basement.)

[dull hawk]

LOL

Okay, I actually drink a lot of water like crazy.

Water and programming is life.

[pearl plover]

programming is no longer a hobby because i get paid to do it at work

the last thing i want to do after 7.5h of programming is more programming

tragic

[sage socket]

lol

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I just constantly want to program.

I also do programming work for an LLC.

(games)

[sage socket]

Get that bag

[dull hawk]

Along with some contract work.

[pearl plover]

this sounds rough

[dull hawk]

I barely do because I have been doing many other things. LOL

[dull hawk]

Hm?

[pearl plover]

triple tiered programming

[dull hawk]

Ah. Lol

Idk, I'm fine with it.

I do Lua/Luau for work, and C# for modding.

Eventually C/C++ probably for a custom game engine for a solo game later on.

[pearl plover]

paid roblox doesn’t seem as stressful at least

[dull hawk]

Haha, yeah, it's not too bad. I have a friend making $45/hr.

I don't really put myself out there anymore, so I don't bother.

I am starting to again, so I have 3 games lined up.

[pearl plover]

all I’ve ever done are admin commands

[dull hawk]

(All solo, but I do have some that I'm working in a team and I'm getting a percentage.)

[dull hawk]

I've done that as well... amongst many MANY other things.

Lua is the programming language I've started with.

[pearl plover]

same

[dull hawk]

(So I've done a lot with it.)

Oh, really??

That's cool!

Didn't expect that. Lol

[pearl plover]

like 12-14 years ago i was hooked on playing lmao

[dull hawk]

Ahhh, I see.

[pearl plover]

learned how to make my own stuff and then started programming from there

[dull hawk]

Yeah, nice.

I started playing Roblox like 12/13 years ago, did some development 10 years ago, and then REALLY got into development 9 years ago, and programming 8 years ago.

[pearl plover]

Nice

It’s probably quite a few people’s first experience with programming tbf

[dull hawk]

Yeahhh.

[pearl plover]

Easily accessible and more interesting than websites

[dull hawk]

Yep.

Toolbox was always pretty interesting to explore.

[pearl plover]

plus their documentation is weirdly good

[dull hawk]

Gosh it was bad, but definitely a good stepping stone.

[pearl plover]

it has no right to be that good

[dull hawk]

Roblox Studio's documentation or the toolbox?

[pearl plover]

roblox lua

[dull hawk]

Ah.

At the time, perhaps, but man it has gone downhill until recently.

[pearl plover]

lots of guides, cookbook, and general api documentation

oh fair, this was before dev forum

[dull hawk]

Yeah.

They did do quite a lot, and then they just got lazy.

The biggest downfall of it was their IDE.

The linting and everything just randomly started to suck.

It barely gave you as much information anymore.

[pearl plover]

Rip

[dull hawk]

It was killing my laptop like crazy until I disabled it.

Yeah, it got bad.

You basically were coding blind.

Even if linting was enabled.

... and most of the time it would suggest the wrong stuff.

[pearl plover]

Wack

Never bothered to learn Luau because it was after my time but it seems cool

[dull hawk]

The amount of times I would try to do :Get- anything other than Children, it would always prioritize :GetChildren first and I'd accidentally do that and would have to undo it.

[pearl plover]

Although i did try to use it cross ModuleScript before and it doesn’t keep the types

[dull hawk]

Oh yeah, Luau is pretty nice, I like being able to type things for linting and basic type warnings.

[dull hawk]

Oh yeah, you have to do export type <name> for it to work, I think.

(It's been a while.)

[finite herald]

Realll!!

[dull hawk]

Lol

[haughty pagoda]

Did either of you guys ever try the Code Assist AI model Roblox put in their IDE? I saw when that was announced but not if it was ever useful at all

[dull hawk]

(Proceeds to keep walking the same speed.)

[dull hawk]

So apparently it is actually doing really well, but I don't bother with it.

[pearl plover]

smh just use that thing that lets you use an external ide and then copilot it

[finite herald]

USD?

[dull hawk]

The AI code acceptance rate was like 20%.

[dull hawk]

Yes.

[finite herald]

Good lord

Man’s making freaking bank

[dull hawk]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. (or even doing TypeScript/C# to Lua since there are some plugins for it.)

[pearl plover]

moonscript 💪

[finite herald]

I first played it back in 2009

[dull hawk]

I just can't stand Roblox Studio's IDE anymore. Lol

[dull hawk]

Noice.

[finite herald]

I still play it occasionally

[dull hawk]

I think I messed with that a little back in the day.

[finite herald]

There’s a couple games I like

Doors is goated

[dull hawk]

I don't play it at all, just develop. LOL

[finite herald]

I heavily recommend trying Doors if you haven’t, it’s phenomenal in its audio design

[dull hawk]

I've played it like once or twice.

[finite herald]

I hope the devs can get their own game off the ground eventually

[dull hawk]

Honestly, when I make my custom game engine, I may look into making a Lua/C# hybrid language (mainly in terms of syntax and allowing explicit typing) for modding support, but also for me to do my own stuff, idk. LOL (Just a bit of me being bored is all.)

[finite herald]

I messed around with script stuff a bit when I was younger, but not much

[dull hawk]

Noice.

[finite herald]

I wish I did it more, could’ve got me more into coding

[dull hawk]

Programming isn't for everybody, so who knows, maybe you would've liked it, maybe you would've hated it.

[finite herald]

Most of my experience is in freaking visual basic where I programmed a robot

[dull hawk]

Oh cool.

Weird language of choice, but still cool. Lol

[finite herald]

Admittedly it was fun chasing people around the halls of my highschool with it lol

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

Yeah it wasn’t a personal choice, it was for the course

[dull hawk]

Ah, I see.

[finite herald]

And the year after I graduated they added a full on coding course

[dull hawk]

LOL

I hate it when schools do things AFTER you are done.

[finite herald]

Both of my brothers got to take it

[dull hawk]

I think for my district, they got rid of a requirement for us to take the ACT. Lol

[finite herald]

ACT?

[dull hawk]

Some annoying test.

[finite herald]

ah

[dull hawk]

Yeah, my class was the last one to have to do it.

Nobody likes it.

[finite herald]

My class was the last one that got to do canadian law at my school at the time

Loved that class

[dull hawk]

the heck

Did they force you guys or was it optional? Lol

[finite herald]

Optional course

I just have a law interest

[dull hawk]

Ah, okay, then that's cool, but sucks that it is gone.

Yeah.

A fun legal thing to mess with is emulators since it is a hot topic lately. LOL

[finite herald]

We got to do a mock trial in an actual courtroom and it was overseen by some people who worked there and they told our teacher it was the best one they ever saw too

So at least it ended on a high note

[dull hawk]

Oh dang, that's actually pretty cool.

[finite herald]

Yeah

[dull hawk]

Sucks that it is gone now.

Law is pretty important.

[finite herald]

We had to do an objection

And it took me and the other lawyer on my side

Like every bone in our body

To not go full pheonix wright

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

Our teacher had to specifically tell everyone to not do it lol

[dull hawk]

Haha, that's great.

[finite herald]

Yeah

But yeah, outside of that I only have experience in like…RUBY, I guess?

For when I used to mess around with RPG Maker

[dull hawk]

Oh gosh, Ruby...

[finite herald]

Yeah I don’t miss it

lol

[dull hawk]

LOL

I don't want to even touch it.

[finite herald]

Had a huge scene done out that I had like hours of work into that was connected to a lot of the game

That randomly broke

Literally nothing in the code was wrong, and even had two other people who had used it for years look at it

To this day I have no sweet clue why it didn’t work

[dull hawk]

Lol, jeez.

[finite herald]

I also technically have some experience in Python

But that’s more reading/editing the code rather than writing from scratch

[dull hawk]

i hate python

[finite herald]

Used to follow a git and read all of the pr’s and stuff

[dull hawk]

with a burning passion

[finite herald]

Really?

[dull hawk]

YES

[finite herald]

Why? I thought it was pretty decently liked

[dull hawk]

Depends on the crackhead you are asking.

[finite herald]

Or is it just inefficient

[dull hawk]

Very slow, yes.

I think there are third-party versions that are faster, but the main thing is insufferable.

[nimble blaze]

+Billions of implementantions of the same things that vary a lot with performance

[finite herald]

I guess more accurately it’s supposedly decently beginner friendly

[nimble blaze]

Basic things i mean like a for loop

You can write normal for or you can call zip on it and zip is a lot faster for reasons

[dull hawk]

Oml

Got to love Python being annoying.

[finite herald]

It’s easy to read and understand the code, but that’s about it

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I'd say it is great for beginners, but I wouldn't go past that for most cases.

It does work well for AI, but probably explains why AI is so slow. Lol

[finite herald]

I just love how most of my experience is with a dead coding language that hasn’t really been used since like the late 90s

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

Like there isn’t even a jumping off point I could transition to really

[dull hawk]

You still referring to Visual Basic, right?

If so, perhaps C#?

It's pretty similar for some stuff.

(A bit more sensical too.)

[finite herald]

Visual Basic 6.0 was selected as the most dreaded programming language by respondents of Stack Overflow's annual developer survey in 2016, 2017, and 2018.

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

Yeah I’ve heard that’s like the closest

[dull hawk]

Yeah, C# is pretty fun as well.

You can do quite a bit of interesting syntax.

Although I think from what I've seen, C/C++ takes the cake for most interesting/fun syntax.

Depends on how crazy you are. Lol

[finite herald]

💀

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

I had to use this to code a freaking robot

[dull hawk]

Ah jeez.

[finite herald]

I’m lucky I already had some knowledge going into it

[dull hawk]

Yeah.

[finite herald]

Admittedly it’s hard to know how I compared since most of the other classmates were just thrown into the course and didn’t really care

But I was able to do a bunch of stuff nobody else was able to, so a win is a win lol

[dull hawk]

Lol, noice.

[finite herald]

I really need to learn more coding

[dull hawk]

Well, there are a lot of online resources to do so for free.

[finite herald]

Maybe I’ll use lethal modding to push myself to do it lol

[dull hawk]

I can't recommend anything because I just self-taught myself everything through trial and error along with interpretation. Lol

[finite herald]

Oh that’s fun

That’s pretty much how I got where I am outside of VB

[dull hawk]

Yeah, that would be a good way to start.

[dull hawk]

Noice.

[finite herald]

and I guess like

Messing around with Roblox script tutorials 10+ years ago

[finite herald]

Plus it gives me a specific motivation

I have a few mod concepts I want to make. One of them will be a lot of work but pretty cool; I have the game design and 2D art aspects covered, and a friend of mine offered to do the modeling and related things for me, so it’s mainly just coding aspects I need covered

I love how my concepts go from “absolutely stupid and memey niche reference” to “very in depth and ambitious project that adds major content”

[dull hawk]

Jeez I hated those.

[dull hawk]

Yep.

[dull hawk]

Noice.

[dull hawk]

Lol, it happens.

[dull hawk]

I love how the one time I think a problem might actually be caused by me, it was actually caused by Unity instead.

Time to see if I can pinpoint it exactly.

It seems like there may be something caused by me, but it is hard to actually get it to occur.

I think I figured out what that was.

Yep, oml.

wait what

i swear

WHAT IS WRONG WITH UNITY'S RENDERER

[west surge]

?

[dull hawk]

Unity keeps breaking with UI.

[west surge]

In what way

[dull hawk]

It crashes.

[finite herald]

It really do be like that sometimes

Happened to me today; the one time I didn’t have my phone on me is when someone was trying to get ahold of me

[dull hawk]

Lol

[dull hawk]

Ah, lovely. [Error : Unity Log] Mesh.colors is out of bounds. The supplied array needs to be the same size as the Mesh.vertices array.

Man, I'm about to make my own CanvasRenderer.

im starting to feel like it could be UnityExplorer

[Error  : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
UnityEngine.UI.Graphic.DoMeshGeneration () (at <17de86d66286445fa95af59fa8fa644d>:0)
UnityEngine.UI.Graphic.UpdateGeometry () (at <17de86d66286445fa95af59fa8fa644d>:0)
UnityEngine.UI.Graphic.Rebuild (UnityEngine.UI.CanvasUpdate update) (at <17de86d66286445fa95af59fa8fa644d>:0)
UnityEngine.UI.CanvasUpdateRegistry.PerformUpdate () (at <17de86d66286445fa95af59fa8fa644d>:0)
UnityEngine.Canvas:SendWillRenderCanvases()
``` Does anybody know why this even happens?

[west surge]

what are you doing in regards to this

[dull hawk]

Updating a Dictionary and changing pages that grabs data from that Dictionary while it is being updated.

(Which makes no sense that the UI would be breaking instead of the actual data relating to the Dictionary.)

[west surge]

dumb question but any chance it's grabbing null data from dictionary?

[dull hawk]

I have it default to "-" if it gets null data.

Ex:

Alright, now it should be completely impossible for null data to occur.

Hm.

That's the first time I got this error.

Usually it's different ones.

[dull hawk]

Similar to this, mostly.

[dull hawk]

This is confusing because I'm not adding it to rebuild at all.

SON OF A-

IT WAS UNITY AGAIN

HOW IS UNITY THIS BAD?

It's also my fault for not noticing this, but I had a Content Size Fitter in the ModSize text UI, which was the thing breaking these at first that I had to make my own implementation for.

Alright, well, maybe that was the only culprit, I hope so.

Going to fix this.

I fixed all LMM issues I guess.

Just Unity issues I have to deal with.

wait, but TinyDesc doesn't have it and yet it errored?

oml

Great.

Okay, I think I might know.

holy crap

i think i finally fixed it

I forgot about some annoying behavior where Unity doesn't like it when you change UI on anything other than the main thread.

I even have a variable to fix that, but I forgot the reason behind it. Yeah, Unity doesn't like UI changes on ANYTHING other than the MAIN thread.

Thanks, Unity, for being annoying.

but once you know, you know, just make sure you remember.

I just didn't want to make anything annoying for the user as a result of refreshing data being buggy.

but now it works.

I've tested it multiple times, so either it is gone completely, or extremely rare.

(I'm literally testing it under the worst conditions using an auto clicker to allow this to change the UI like crazy.)

Alright, yep, everything seems to be good now.

I hope you guys enjoyed my endless ranting.

(Finally put to an end... for now...)

[hasty fog]

unity on top greatest engine ever made! 🔥🏆 🥇

[maiden bridge]

Tbf UI stuff tends to very specifically be main thread only in all applications

Weird not to provide a warning about performing UI functions on non main threads though

[dull hawk]

Well, this is Unity's rendering pipeline, you would think that they would handle that properly. Even Roblox handles it properly. LOL

Plus, there isn't much reason to not allow it.

It's the same as changing data on other threads, just visual.

oh shoot, magically other things are fixed?

[maiden bridge]

Does Roblox do multi threading? Wasn't aware there was that much depth to it's language

[dull hawk]

Yep.

They've added quite a bit.

[maiden bridge]

Generally it's a really bad idea to do UI data stuff on other threads due to UI always being main thread (since mouse movement, input etc is all main thread at the OS level it basically must be main thread) and locking data for transfer is time consuming which is bad for responsiveness

[dull hawk]

I mean, yeah, but at the same time (irony), it's all the same, you wouldn't have to lock any data, just whatever data you get at the time is whatever is displayed.

[maiden bridge]

You'd still get the same thread race problems especially with complex data structures (like textures), where you could read and write the same memory from different threads at the same time, so in general UI off the main thread is off limits, at most you'd use signals

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I can see it for just pure lower level stuff (I looked it up a bit), but for Unity to not have proper support for non-main threads is just weird in this year.

[maiden bridge]

Should probably have clearer warnings about that kind of stuff yeah (and Unity threading is very much questionable in general)

[dull hawk]

I still find it funny that Roblox handles it and Unity doesn't.

Previously I was loving Unity's UI compared to Roblox, now I'm not very much anymore.

[maiden bridge]

Unity is super questionable for networking, UI and threading overall

[dull hawk]

Lol, I can tell.

[maiden bridge]

Unreal does a lot better in all those areas

[dull hawk]

Yeah, eventually I'm going to make a game outside of Roblox (other than my custom game engine game), so I was debating Unity or Unreal.

Probably going to try Unreal.

(Especially because I can do some Lua in it.)

[maiden bridge]

Godot is quite promising imo, worth considering especially for smaller projects

[dull hawk]

Yeah, that's the thing, not doing a small project for that game I mentioned.

(That's also why I wouldn't be doing it with my custom game engine that I also mentioned.)

[oblique marten]

the problem with "just" supporting doing things from other threads is that that means everything the main thread does has to be protected by mutexes

that causes serious performance problems

interesting if Roblox allows it though, I wonder how

perhaps it's designed around that, Unity definitely isn't from what I can tell

[dull hawk]

Yeah, which is what they were saying earlier about locking it.

[oblique marten]

have to make sure you're not doing tons of small changes in pieces because that means you have to lock adn unlock repeatedly

[dull hawk]

At the same time, you don't really have to lock anything- wait, actually, not sure if we are all getting confused by what I mean.

(I'm not good with programming terminology, so I could be saying the wrong thing here.)

[oblique marten]

perhaps?

there's really no way for the main thread not to be touching the same data that another thread is touching if it's rendering the UI while it's being modified though

the main thread has to stop one way or another

[dull hawk]

Okay, so Roblox has things where it doesn't have to be the same thread, but it does have issues for UI when it comes to parallel threading. I am not doing parallel threading in Unity, but I am opening a new task to run some code at a different time (asynchronously).

Which, perhaps is the same thing, I just know it differently in Roblox, so idk.

[oblique marten]

oh, then it should still be on the main thread I would think?

but I guess maybe the time that that async task runs might not be consistent and cause an issue with whatever state the engine is in

[dull hawk]

Yeah, idk.

I'd understand it for some really low level stuff, or even parallel threading in most cases, but not for something as padded as Unity already is. Lol

[maiden bridge]

From a rudimentary look Roblox has multi threading and parallel operations as distinct things, where parallel is just running each script sequentially in one engine step on 1 thread (main), might be what you're thinking of?

[oblique marten]

wait, they call that parallel? holy confusing

I thought parallel was supposed to explicitly refer to running things that can be scheduled on separate threads

[maiden bridge]

Running off Dev forum so don't know how accurate that is though

[dull hawk]

DevForum is full of egotistical idiots typically, but I think that might be right.

[oblique marten]

bizarre

[dull hawk]

I can't remember exactly how it worked, it's been 2-3 years since I've really worked in-depth with parallel threading.

[oblique marten]

singlehandedly making a whole generation of programmers very confused if that's true lmao

[maiden bridge]

I think it's referring to coroutines which is also a Unity thing which is also main thread, just over time

Idk I haven't touched Roblox, I'm a C++ guy

[dull hawk]

Okay, no, I believe parallel threading is supposed to be code running on separate threads at the exact same time.

Multithreading is similar, just NOT at the exact same time.

[oblique marten]

ah, yeah, that makes sense then

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I was thinking back to some projects I've done with it, and I did a lot of raycasting and NPC calculations with parallel threads.

Jeez, I keep confusing myself now, my brain has been dying ever since Unity's shenanigans.

I like how I was typing a big message about how it could probably be handled even in low level code and all the problems with other methods (along with what Unity is probably doing), but then I just realized I literally already handled it in LMM. (Obviously not low level code, but the concept is still there.)

[dull hawk]

Anyway, for those who don't want to read the bulk of the messages sent today, basically I was dealing with a Unity issue that they don't really warn very well of, it was finally handled, I made note of it so that I wouldn't forget again (as I've dealt with it before, but forgot), I did some very needed optimizations and improved the overall code for Thunderstore searching and refreshing data, along with logos loading in properly and cancelling downloads immediately if they are downloading a new logo to display, and probably some other things that I forgot about.

This was a pretty big hurdle as it would crash a lot, and I obviously do not want that, but it has been completely fixed.

[hasty fog]

so now that we're really, TRULY almost there, what all is left to be done

[dull hawk]

A proper download indicator (not REALLY needed, but would be preferred), proper mod installation rules (I will probably need confirmation from Ebkr that I have it all right), and... oh shoot, that's really it I think?

HOLY CRAP, I MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ALMOST DONE

I COULD PROBABLY FINISH THIS TOMORROW EASILY.

FREEDOM ALAS

everybody gangsta until Unity breaks again

[hasty fog]

at this point i hope for your sake that you're able to finish things up tomorrow lol

[dull hawk]

Crazy?

(kidding, not starting that)

Yeah, I hope so too, I got to clean soon because my grandparents are coming over on Friday, and I don't need this getting delayed any longer.

[sage socket]

Finished playing some modded with friends

Hope you're progressing well!

[burnt tulip]

dont jinx it 💀

[dull hawk]

Was doing some emulator concept stuff, back to werk.

[dull hawk]

Yeah, now that I handled any issues with Unity, it is almost done (again).

[sage socket]

Hehe

[gray snow]

what?

[dull hawk]

Just was messing around with an emulator concept I had to possibly do perfect emulation.

It involves many different things I've done tech-wise throughout my life, so I think it would be fun to mess with.

[gray snow]

perfect emulation?

FPGA.

[dull hawk]

Yeah, but not doing it with an FPGA.

(I would, but I'm doing this on my computer for fun.)

[gray snow]

how are you gonna achieve perfect emulation

[dull hawk]

I have my ways, I'm also still working on some of the logic with it, so it's not 100% set in stone yet.

[gray snow]

please tell me everything

[dull hawk]

Also, technically perfect emulation is easily achievable the more you throw performance at it, but I'm not going to do that, trying to make it lightweight.

(But 100% perfect emulation isn't achievable because it isn't the real thing, you can only approach 100% perfect emulation.)

[sage socket]

See now I wanna know what you're trying to emulate lol

[dull hawk]

Nein, concept not done enough, I shall gatekeep. Lol

[gray snow]

ah that's no fun

[dull hawk]

Anything really, just starting with the basic NES hardware though.

[sage socket]

Valid

[gray snow]

FPGA is probably true 100% emulation

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I want to buy one to do that since that would be the closest thing, and could be completely dedicated to it.

Just restricted.

(ish)

I'm basically working on a concept emulator that could run on any device and emulate any hardware.

Basically like a virtual machine. Lol

(You would have to add the proper settings for each hardware, so it would serve as a platform.)

[gray snow]

yeah that would be pretty close to the original hardware

qemu can do everything you'd need, just gotta write an OS to make it work

[dull hawk]

I'd do my own tailored for video game console emulating.

[gray snow]

why would you when qemu is literally the best thing ever

[dull hawk]

Because I want to have fun making things from scratch. Lol

[gray snow]

you'd be making an operating system

[dull hawk]

Essentially, yeah.

[gray snow]

seems pretty fun to me

[dull hawk]

Also, I want to see if I could possibly convert NES games to C#. LOL

[gray snow]

wtf

[dull hawk]

I am crazy.

Yeah, it doesn't look like QEMU would be it for me.

Especially because of how I'm planning to do some stuff.

[gray snow]

fortunately for the NES, a 6502 backend for qemu is already a thing

[dull hawk]

Noice.

[hollow epoch]

@dull hawk Just a question, is this project still being worked on? ive had LethalModManager downloaded and i was wondering if its going to be a mod manager and not mod lister, i hope this didnt come off "mean"

[dull hawk]

Of course, it's not rude at all, it was just taking longer than expected. The mod manager was actually about to go out last weekend, but should be going out by this weekend, but hopefully today.

Been handling a lot of issues, so yeah.

[hollow epoch]

Oh, ngl i thought this was a dead mod lol, good to know its still being worked on :D, the idea of a mod that syncs with others mods is really cool to me

[dull hawk]

Well, basically it downloads the mods, quick restarts the game, and immediately joins whatever lobby you were trying to join.

[hollow epoch]

wdym by, "quick restarts"?

[dull hawk]

Not exactly syncs the mods together, it just gets the mods that the host is using. (So in a sense, it syncs to the host.)

[dull hawk]

It closes out the application and reopens it immediately.

[hollow epoch]

Cool

[dull hawk]

(Skips splashes and stuff and goes directly into the game.)

[hollow epoch]

Ok thats what i was wondering if i was going to have to try rejoining the lobby

[dull hawk]

Nope, it does it automatically.

[hollow epoch]

question: will the mods go into the game files itself or the mod manager, and follow up question: will they auto delete

like how the modmanager for bonelab does

[dull hawk]

It opens up a temporary profile for all of the mods, those mods are downloaded and installed there, after closing out the game, it will delete that temporary profile.

[hollow epoch]

profile where?

[dull hawk]

In the mod manager under the game files.

[hollow epoch]

Oh thats really cool accualy

[dull hawk]

Not all features are done yet for caching mods, but will be done soon, I just need to work on more UI.

[hollow epoch]

Its gonna have a custom ui :O

[dull hawk]

Already has one.

[hollow epoch]

super cool mod ngl just from what you've told me

[hollow epoch]

also this is some what revelatory because people wont need to share codes

[dull hawk]

(Just refreshed.)

[dull hawk]

Yep.

[hollow epoch]

you sir are a genius

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-worship-worshipping-now-bowing-gif-12297363

[dull hawk]

Shows your running mods as well. (Along with disabled mods on that profile, but I don't have it blacked out rn to indicate such due to me changing a lot of code last weekend.)

[hollow epoch]

oh wait, will it be full clientside? like i could jpin vinnila lobbys and modded lobbys?

[dull hawk]

Yep.

[hollow epoch]

holy crap you are a god

[dull hawk]

Here will show vanilla lobbies unless you change the setting to hide non LMM hosted lobbies.

For LMM hosted lobbies, it will prioritize them and have them at the very top with the button saying Sync instead of Join and a number count for the amount of mods + download size.

[hollow epoch]

what does LMM? mean

[dull hawk]

LethalModManager

[hollow epoch]

OH

it sycns with itself

[dull hawk]

Soon I'll have my own lobby searcher that doesn't interfere with the vanilla one for compatibility reasons, which will run directly in LMM's UI.

[hollow epoch]

another question, with it work with this
Control_Company_Detector v3.3.8 by JS03
(JS03-Control_Company_Detector-3.3.8)

[dull hawk]

It will work with any mod.

It's not limited.

As long as you aren't using local files from your computer and trying to host a lobby with them.

[hollow epoch]

this one messes with lobbys so i didnt know

[dull hawk]

Ah, wait, I see what you mean.

[hollow epoch]

wdym

[dull hawk]

Actually, it just tells you what mods are in that server. Lol (If the host has LMM.)

[dull hawk]

Meaning any mods that are only on your computer and not on Thunderstore, basically.

[maiden bridge]

could a config syncer (i.e. grabs and sends the config files of the host and restarts to join) be a possible feature?

[dull hawk]

That's already a feature.

[hollow epoch]

My. God.

[maiden bridge]

ah nice didn't see it in the list

[dull hawk]

Yeah, before it was supposed to be an opt-in system for each config, but I don't have the UI ready, so you just have to download all of the configs regardless for now.

(Which is fine for most cases.)

[maiden bridge]

coolio, if it's also not already in config profiles would also be nice

[dull hawk]

Hm?

Oh, you mean profiles for configs instead of mods as well?

That was already apart of my list.

Along with mixing them with load orders and different ways.

[maiden bridge]

something like that, so you could save and load a config set and auto restart on selection

[dull hawk]

Along with config profiles for specific mods if you have a mod that you like a specific setup for.

[dull hawk]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Lol

Idk where the other list is, might only be in my server.

[maiden bridge]

nice to see, seems like this'd be the best config sync confirmer

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I will soon add config editing as well.

(Since, you know, this is a mod manager, would be stupid not to do so.)

I know a way to help make sure things are a bit more compatible so that you don't have to constantly restart.

and will soon release an API for it that other mods could use to ensure compatibility.

[maiden bridge]

would something like lethal config be compatible or would it be more of its own thing?

[dull hawk]

I mean, people can pair that with LMM, that would be fine. Eventually I'll have my own config editor that will be embedded into LMM.

It would also support more types to modify.

[dull hawk]

Moving the Refresh button to be on the side because it isn't really an exclusive Thunderstore search thing, it is also helpful for reloading your own downloaded mods to see if they have new updates or anything.

(Especially since I've yet to add an update indicator.)

[surreal cove]

hows progress

[surreal cove]

also I hope there is way to exclude modpacks

[dull hawk]

There is, but for now you have to include a key character for it.

[surreal cove]

alr and how is the progress of the mod going, possibly today : )

[dull hawk]

I'm not thinking so, but at least it will be on a special day, aka my birthday, meaning tomorrow.

I'm just adding some better profile control, and then it's good.

Progress is good though.

Just doing the final polishing.

[surreal cove]

damn, if its your birthday you should enjoy it, not be coding LMM unless you really enjoy. But thats just by opinion

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I like programming.

A lot, so I will.

(Plus, if I don't, it would end up releasing this Monday because I have grandparents coming over.)

[surreal cove]

oh damn

[dull hawk]

Yeeeeep.

[hollow epoch]

your Bday is tommorow?

[dull hawk]

Yep.

[hollow epoch]

and your give us(the community) a gift that is beyond awsome?

[dull hawk]

Haha, I guess so.

[hollow epoch]

i wish i had money 😭 i would give you like 20$

[dull hawk]

Lol, it's all good, I don't want people giving me money that they barely have.

[hollow epoch]

😭

[surreal cove]

damn

[dull hawk]

What?

[hasty fog]

it's alright i already wrote you into my will

[dull hawk]

LOL

[finite herald]

oh snap birthday time?

wicked!

[dull hawk]

Lol, almost.

[elder coral]

For me, you're already older

[dull hawk]

Lol, nice.

[hollow epoch]

Happy birth day spam at midnight?

@dull hawk :eyeshake: LMM COMING OUT TOMORROW FINALLY.

how sure of this are u?

hopfully 100% >:)

[dull hawk]

If I get hit with a million things to clean before my grandparents come Friday afternoon, slightly unsure, if not, VERY sure.

[hollow epoch]

🎙️: any wayyyy, how long has this been in the works?

[dull hawk]

Good question.

2 months. LOL

[hollow epoch]

🎙️:how much have you learned?

[dull hawk]

It was on and off in the beginning, but REALLY picked up in the past month.

[dull hawk]

uh, peanut butter

[hollow epoch]

🎙️:Gooood >:)

idk where this is going

[dull hawk]

Lol

[hollow epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/peanut-butter-dancing-jif-dance-pixelated-gif-17653026

[dull hawk]

Well, this is a solution for now to show mods being downloaded.

Nice.

[tidal fossil]

very nice

[haughty pagoda]

Definitely include one of those donate to the mod author buttons Thunderstore lets you add though, this tool will help a lot of people a ton so I think you definitely deserve it

[dull hawk]

I actually already have it on my mods.

I also have it in my bio, so it is all good.

[haughty pagoda]

Oh nice

[dull hawk]

I could also add a tab specifically for it in LMM's UI, but idrc rn. Lol

[finite herald]

🎂 Happy Birthday, @dull hawk! 🎂

I know it isn't yet where you are, but I'm in the future

lol

[dull hawk]

Haha, thanks either way.

[maiden bridge]

Happy birthday (I'm Australian so it's probably already your birthday here)

[dull hawk]

Lol, it's almost my birthday here.

[dull hawk]

7 minutes till the 7th. Lol

Ah, right, I forgot my computer is off by like half a minute.

E

Alright, it's synced again. Lol

Well, it's my birthday now. I'm 19, jeez. Anyway, LethalModManager Beta will be out later, finishing some features before I go to bed.

[gray snow]

2 more years and you can buy alcohol in the US!!!!

[dull hawk]

Ew.

I'm good.

First time I went to a bar was in Oaxaca, México almost a year ago. (I got the equivalent of a club soda.)

(I was also offered alcohol many times there, I just never want it, even if I'm allowed.)

[pastel geyser]

Really helps you take steam off you, side effect is all of it goes to your kids.

(I’m so funny guys right)

[dull hawk]

Lol

[sage socket]

Birthday Happy 🥳

[dull hawk]

Thank you!

I just installed a modpack (without any version filtering) in a few seconds via LMM.

I'm honestly surprised.

TheMostLethalCompany v7.6.0, if anybody was wondering.

That's just absolutely crazy.

[sage socket]

Your pc must be top notch lol

That's a lotta mods

[dull hawk]

I mean, I've invested a lot of money back into my computer, so it is, but it doesn't really have any effect on it.

It's networking.

(and it goes both ways, for me and Thunderstore)

[sage socket]

Neato

[dull hawk]

The amount of MoreSuits. LOL

[sage socket]

God damn

[dull hawk]

Going to delete all of it, and try my filter out.

[gray snow]

for the love of god please use folders to separate versions

[dull hawk]

No. Lol

I was at first, but no more.

[gray snow]

[dull hawk]

[BETA SOON] LethalModManager https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/kyxino/LethalModManager/

[spare quiver]

Folders would make it exponentially harder to look for mods, right? as you dont have to reference the only folder "ModStorage" but it would have to search for specific folders and then the correct version. Sounds extremely painful to code lol

[dull hawk]

That's basically the reason why, along with it literally just being a folder for permanent version cache, it really serves no purpose to complicate it further.

(ESPECIALLY because it is all ZIPs.)

[spare quiver]

very understandable

[thin bane]

literally cannot wait for this masterpiece 🔥 🔥 🔥

[dull hawk]

Well, filter didn't work, but I just realized that it downloaded 175 mods. Lol

893MB

...

it downloaded all of that in seconds

how.

Alright, filter is working.

156 mods this time at 850MB.

Not too bad.

[gray snow]

good internet speed obviously

[dull hawk]

Yeah, but it's just funny because Thunderstore takes forever to download mods.

Though I'm starting to think it's just the time it takes for them to show up in the UI. Lol

[pearl plover]

You might be handling it differently

Downloading is done linearly plus not only saves but also extracts the zip (you might get better performance in parallel, but it goes crazy if you’re downloading 50 mods in the background)

It might even install the mod too as part of the percentage

The other part of it is that the percentage isn’t reflective of the actual divided percentage, it’s split into chunks based on the number of mods, and then each chunk is done based on the download progress of the mod (so it probably seems slower, it’s not though)

A good way to look at it is a mod with a dependency, each chunk is 50% regardless of mod size. So let’s say it takes 20 seconds to download A, and 5 seconds to download B, in reality A has taken up 80% of the time

[surreal cove]

happy birthday

[hasty fog]

happy birthday! 🍰

[dull hawk]

Ah, so it is doing it one at a time? That would explain since I am doing everything right away. Lol

[dull hawk]

Thanks!

[dull hawk]

Thank you!

Alright, I got to get to work soon, just need to make some food and stuff.

[zinc spindle]

Happy birthday man

[dull hawk]

Thank you!

[dull hawk]

Going to do some further filtering for downloads so that it won't end up downloading some unneeded dependencies. (This behavior would only really be observed in modpacks.)

[dull hawk]

Uh, going to have to delay that in order to finish some other things.

Wait, no, I might be able to get it done easily.

Alright, should work.

I think I've prevented infinite recursion and unneeded dependencies via downloading.

Unneeded dependencies are very rare, so it's hard to come across that.

As for infinite recursion, that's even more rare.

[dull hawk]

... and making it wait for downloads to be finished before quick reloading.

Once that is done, LMM is pretty much done.

(Of course, I'll have to verify that I actually got everything done, there's a lot of stuff and I don't want to overlook anything, it's why I've been taking bugs and optimizations very seriously.)

Alright.

[dull hawk]

This is done.

There are a few other little things that need to be done, I just checked, but it won't take long AT ALL.

I might even be able to finish it before I go out for my birthday.

I do have to go ahead and use the bathroom, take a shower, and then fold up my clothes that just got done.

but after that, LMM will soon be released.

[dull hawk]

As long as I get it done before going out, if not, it will be done soon after.

[finite herald]

Don't rush yourself! ^-^

[dull hawk]

Unfortunately I did have to do some other stuff rq, and I'm about to leave, but at least it is earlier than expected, so once I get back, I'll have a lot of time to grind LMM to finish it.

[dull hawk]

The good thing is that it isn't even rushing anymore, just cruising along to finish the last few things.

[surreal cove]

so possibly today

[hollow epoch]

@dull hawk i just got back and im unable to look at the mod, is it out?

[hasty fog]

not yet

let him enjoy his birthday guys, he'll be back in the kitchen soon and it'll be out before you know it

[dull hawk]

I just got back. Lol

[hasty fog]

great timing

[dull hawk]

I'm working on getting it out tonight.

There's only one reason IF it were to not go out tonight, but either way, it would literally be tomorrow. As long as I have no difficulties, tonight will be the night for LMM's beta to be released.

[hasty fog]

that's hype

good luck

[dull hawk]

Thanks. Lol

[dull hawk]

Okay, actually, a little bit of rush. Lol

[dull hawk]

I think I have everything verified for how to handle mod installation, so that's good.

[plain dagger]

hype

so is this gonna have features that r2mm and thunderstore are missing? like deleting mods out of a modpack? lol

not sure if that was fixed in r2mm's update or if it was just thunderstore but thats 1 of 3 or 4 reasons i just manually install everything.

[dull hawk]

Unhype, might be tomorrow instead. I'm trying to get it out before I go to sleep.

[plain dagger]

its all good man no need to rush

[dull hawk]

I mean, some, but not many because I've been rewriting the base code a million times, so I haven't really gotten to it yet. It does allow deleting any mods though, problem is, you could end up deleting a dependency without knowing until I add stuff for that.

[dull hawk]

Yeah, r2modman now let's you forcibly delete a mod, even if it is dependent upon.

[plain dagger]

well modding really isnt for the lazy we have to pay attention to that stuff either way

[dull hawk]

Yeah, but I want to try to lower that bar as much as possible.

[plain dagger]

what i want is to be able to share a large modpack and even transfer the one i manually built into a manager but thats kinda wishful

r2mm can load my mods if i put them into its bepinex but it wont detect them in the manager

maybe if i had the manifest files in there too

[dull hawk]

Soon I'll have profile code support, but for now, the easiest way to do that is by hosting a lobby, have them join, leave, save the temporary profile to a new profile, and then you are good. Lol

[dull hawk]

Probably so.

[plain dagger]

so we can have players download our mods on join?

like gmod?

[dull hawk]

It will somewhat be the same situation for LMM, unfortunately.

[dull hawk]

Yep!

[dull hawk]

Correct.

[plain dagger]

Yesssssss

thats top notch

[dull hawk]

That's exactly how I describe it. Lol

Yeah, it will pop up with a prompt for it.

[plain dagger]

its the main hurdle tbh even for small packs because of.. laziness. lol

[dull hawk]

Yeeeep.

[plain dagger]

i can make the process really easy boil it down to a few minutes of work and still people chicken out

ill be on the lookout for it but take your time ❤️ cheers

[dull hawk]

Thanks. Lol

[dull hawk]

Alright, yeah, it will be tomorrow.

I also realized I have more that I need to rewrite tomorrow along with adding proper functions for handling this stuff better rather than me rewriting the same logic 20x.

[dull hawk]

Idk why I was saying it as if I would be rewriting that stuff tomorrow, I have to do that RIGHT AFTER release. Lol

[pearl plover]

That does defeat the entire point of a modpack

Modpacks are so you can join servers with others on the same modpack. If you remove something then it’s no longer that modpack

[pearl plover]

Modding is absolutely for the lazy

No reason for there to be barriers for people to enjoy playing with mods
It’s good to have people just be able to download and play with minimal thought as it increases exposure to modding and in turn makes for better communities and potentially motivates people to start making their own

[nimble blaze]

It really doesn't, sometimes you want to tweak small things - stuff that doesn't impact the integrity of the modpack overall like replacing Custom Boombox Mod with DiscJockey for example. Assembling the same modpack with configs etc. from scratch doesn't make any sense in that case, but removing a couple of mods does.

[pearl plover]

Sure, but that’s not the same modpack

[nimble blaze]

And I understand not wanting to download stuff that you don't want to use since I'm on a limited connection

[pearl plover]

You’re now playing with different audio than other people for example

It’s not the way the author intended the modpack to be used, and depending on the things you change can make connecting to the host incompatible anyway

Re downloading things you don’t want to use - you download it on the initial modpack install anyway, so in that case, why download the modpack in the first place?

[nimble blaze]

I assume that's what was meant by "deleting mods from a modpack" - not downloading them at all and swapping in your own alternatives.

[pearl plover]

No they’re referring to the modpack downloading with all dependencies, and then removing some after the fact

[nimble blaze]

But that feature isn't really missing in r2mm

[pearl plover]

And when you used to remove a mod, any dependents would also be removed, in which case the modpack listing would be removed from the installed list (which doesn’t actually do anything)

[plain dagger]

...that wasnt the point of what i was saying at all

[plain dagger]

buddy a modpack isnt a creative masterpiece alright just chill out a bit

[pearl plover]

I didn’t say it was?

[plain dagger]

no im referring to the actual process of building a modpack

tf

[pearl plover]

What do you mean by deleting mods out of a modpack then? 🤔

I’m assuming you mean you download a modpack in the manager, then remove a dependency which then removes the mod and the modpack entries in the installed list

Because if you’re building a modpack, you wouldn’t have a modpack listing and so deleting a normal mod would have no effect anyway

[pearl plover]

hence the: removing a mod from an installed modpack makes it no longer that modpack

I don’t think any of this is a controversial point

[dull hawk]

I think the point they are trying to make is that sometimes people prefer to make slight adjustments to pre-existing modpacks and wanting to be able to do so with ease. Not everybody is capable of running every single mod (biggest example being mods like Skinwalkers), so sometimes substitutes or removals are necessary for the enjoyment of the user(s). Being able to personalize it is the point of modding, just that before it wasn't easily possible depending on what you were trying to replace. (and some didn't know it was perfectly fine to disable the modpack listing)

Alright, I got to rush clean today, luckily my grandparents are getting here later than expected, and I'm so close to finishing LMM's beta that even though they will be here, I might have just enough time to get it out this weekend if cleaning takes too long, but luckily we have a vacuum bot that handles most of my job. Lol

[steep axle]

cant wait to get my hands on it

[dull hawk]

I can't wait to take my hands off it... for like a day. LOL

Immediately after, I got to start rewriting more of the base code.

[pearl plover]

But in what sense 🤔 That’s uninstalling a mod which isn’t a minor change as far as I’m concerned because the mods don’t match

If you opt to not have one of the mods, then you don’t have the modpack and it’d be wrong to say you did

I guess a similar way to imagine it is: in Minecraft you pretty much need the exact same mods and versions otherwise you can’t connect at all, and you get an error telling you which mods have problems
If you have version 1.0.1 of a modpack but you’ve changed it, well it’s a variant of it, but it’s not the same, you’ve essentially made 1.0.2

[dull hawk]

Wait, are you also talking about my mod sync feature?

[pearl plover]

no, this is just about the “substitutes or removals” part and always has been

if you substitute MoreCompany for AdvancedCompany, well that’s not the same

They do similar things, but it’s not the same, therefore not the modpack

[dull hawk]

Yeah, so in that case, send the profile code for the variant.

That's how people have always handled it.

[pearl plover]

I think you’re also getting lost in translation here

[pearl plover]

again, it’s not really something that the manager should allow, to delete a mod from a modpack

when you do that, the installed list would remove the modpack entry because it depended on the mod you’ve just removed

so by definition you don’t have the modpack anymore

[dull hawk]

Yeah, you wouldn't, you would just have all of the separate mods, which there is nothing wrong with that?

[pearl plover]

so why was it a complaint

that’s literally all this has been, is explaining why it’s intended

[dull hawk]

They probably didn't know you could do that and it would be fine.

[pearl plover]

and they thought I was getting defensive about modpacks and misunderstood 🤔

[dull hawk]

When it comes to TMM, I think it actually messes up the entire thing, which could be what they were initially using.

[pearl plover]

it does not

[dull hawk]

Ah, then it was probably because they didn't know you could remove the modpack listing and it would be fine.

[pearl plover]

unless they’re bad at explaining further, because there is a bug related to removals but it’s when you update modpack and remove a mod from the dependency string

the manager doesn’t remove a mod that was originally in the modpack but is no longer present

so when the user updates it, the modpack contains the new content, and retains the one that was removed

[dull hawk]

No idea, I initially understood it as being able to force remove mods without removing any mods depending on it.

[pearl plover]

there are two ways of handling it

1. the manager auto tracks and adds/removes dependencies as they’re needed
2. the manager hides all modifications to modpacks and treats them separate from normal profiles

[pearl plover]

Yeah it was, but in the justification for modpacks which I think is wrong

[dull hawk]

It doesn't really matter if it is wrong or right subjectively, modding is supposed to allow you to change things how you want it, modpacks help further it in a way that is tailored by its maintainer for its users. While, yes, modifications require you to remove/disable the modpack listing, which isn't morally the best (as you are stripping them of some of that support), the people who use the modification may not use it as much as the original, and is typically for their friends to use anyway, and we are also assuming that they are publishing that modification. (Which doesn't have to be done via profile codes, and soon LethalModManager's mod sync.)

[pearl plover]

Yeah but the point is that removing a mod from a modpack should remove the modpack listing

I also said before that it was a moot point because they don’t usually contain anything other than configs, and configs aren’t managed

so removing the modpack listing from the installed list does absolutely nothing lmao

[dull hawk]

Yeah, it doesn't do anything, if they want to remove it as well, they can, if they don't, it doesn't really matter too much either.

From a programming basis, we can't really assume that they have the dependencies of every mod, we have to know what they have because I understand that in programming, it can be a bit annoying, but we have to account for it.

[pearl plover]

That’s just different manager priorities there imo

The goal of r2mm is to be a my first mod manager approach, so it should really dictate everything that’s needed

The concept of a dependency is that the mod depends on it, and if it works without it then by definition it’s not a dependency

It’s the author’s problem if they mislabel it and they should be the ones to resolve it

[dull hawk]

While things should definitely be dictated in most situations, it is also helpful to be able to do things without restriction.

[pearl plover]

See I disagree, the idea of the manager dictating everything is that it’s to prevent user error

If you want lots of flexibility then it’s an area that someone can make a competing manager, and that’s because they serve different audiences

[dull hawk]

Yeah, it really should mitigate it as much as possible, but it should also allow the option to do stuff at your own discretion.

[pearl plover]

No that’s contradicting it

[dull hawk]

It should warn you, but the recommended option should always be the option of less user error.

[pearl plover]

By letting people mess around with what’s depended on, you open it up to user error, so it’s not mitigating it at all

It’s fine to allow it and I can see why it’s useful, but there’s a reason it took like 4-5 years for that functionality to be added

[dull hawk]

You could even have an option in settings for allowing advanced configuration that prompts the 2 options, and by default, it is disabled.

[pearl plover]

And it’s pretty much exclusive to lethal company because of two reasons.

1. People can’t label dependencies properly
2. People make these massive “do everything” mods like MoreCompany which have several loaders for no good reason

[pearl plover]

Nope, you’re now giving the user a recurring affecting decision and they may have never used the manager before

So now they have to know when they need to go and change it, and how to change it, and that makes functionality different between two copies of the manager for the user which makes debugging harder

I turned off predictive text on my phone and swiping went haywire hence all the edits lmao

[dull hawk]

No? It wouldn't be recurring thing if the option is disabled, which by default, it would be, and while yes, that would be a user error, that's just absolute arrogance that you can't prevent, which could also be done by just going to the plugins folder and removing the mod manually anyway. (and in some desperation, people might do that)

[hasty fog]

at the end of the day, when making any tool, especially one with as many features as r2mm, you're gonna come to the crossroads of catering to idiots vs catering to power users. you can't have it both ways, if you make it too safe, power users won't be able to use it how they want. if you make it too complex, the idiots will always find a way to enable things they shouldn't be touching. in my opinion, it's always better to opt into configurability over ease of use, but it all depends on who's making the tool

[dull hawk]

Then we add the proper tool for signaling that a dependency is missing.

[pearl plover]

Yeah but I’m fine with people removing the files

That’s a definite intention as opposed to misclicking through the screens

[dull hawk]

Oh jeez, the amount of times turning it off and it screwed me over so many times, just for me to start messing up like crazy at first. LOL

[dull hawk]

I would just have it on a different page entirely. (As it wouldn't be for the typical user, and it wouldn't need to be turned on and off regularly.)

[pearl plover]

That’s probably just another thing though, it’s extremely common for people to just click random settings

[dull hawk]

I definitely can agree with that.

[pearl plover]

Do you have any idea how many total messages there have been about enabling funky mode and not knowing what it is or how they got the overlay

[dull hawk]

(It's why I'm burying a very crucial setting in File Explorer that would be hidden from my mod manager. LOL)

[dull hawk]

Oml, never even used it, but I have seen it and was confused what it was.

[pearl plover]

Adding a setting isn’t really an ideal way to handle it because people will just click it

[dull hawk]

That's why it wouldn't be included in my mod manager's UI. LOL

[pearl plover]

Yeah but now you’re being extremely restrictive in that it’s not obvious functionality

[dull hawk]

That's also the point.

I don't want everybody using it.

[pearl plover]

You now rely on a user to change a value in a file and to not mess that value up

[dull hawk]

Just the elite few that asks for it, or who looks for it.

[hasty fog]

people click before they read and there is literally nothing you can do to fix that without downright removing functionality

[pearl plover]

Yeah but people won’t even be aware of it unless they specifically go to look inside this random file

And that’s extremely poor UX on that front

[dull hawk]

It isn't a value I want them to be aware of, typically.

That's why I would have it hidden away.

[pearl plover]

I’d say the configuration file should be fine if the audience are developers

[dull hawk]

It's intentional and by design for it to be poor UX.

[dull hawk]

Ding ding ding.

[pearl plover]

But if its non technical users, it’s not good

[dull hawk]

Yeah, no, I definitely understand.

[pearl plover]

No the feature might be for developers but the manager itself isn’t targeted for them

So it’s weird imo to have it handled that way

[dull hawk]

Eh, it's a security risk for non-developers using it, that's why I would make it as inconvenient as possible to come across it and enable it.

[pearl plover]

Honestly it’d probably be better to have people enter a code to unlock the setting than it would be to randomly scout files

[dull hawk]

Yeah, that too, but then where do they find the code?

[pearl plover]

readme

You could say the same about where they find the config file though

[dull hawk]

Actually, yeah, nobody reads READMEs.

Although some people who do will see CODE and then just put it in randomly.

[pearl plover]

You’re saying that you’d only tell select people about it anyway, so I don’t see a difference

[dull hawk]

You could find it, but you can't find a code if it is not included.

[pearl plover]

Yeah that’s fair

Really you’d be able to have both

[dull hawk]

Well, it would be mentioned publicly, so the people that want it could do it, so if anybody asks me for it, I could just warn them and tell them how to do it. (The mod manager itself would also warn if it is enabled.)

[pearl plover]

The code is just a visual wrapper around changing via file explorer which should prevent user error

[dull hawk]

Yeah.

[dull hawk]

uh

suddenly things are really broken

wait huh

Oh, I think I know what happened.

oh crap

.

bro

I may or may not have completely broken this.

[sage socket]

What specifically is bork?

Quick reloading?

[dull hawk]

I broke multiple things.

Downloading, quick reloading, mod slot data, etc.

I fixed quick reloading, it no longer automatically quick reloads the moment you have things downloading. LOL

As for mod slot data, I have to look into it more, but things don't get properly updated at times, I might need to change mod slots again because there has been some concern over stability with it.

(Especially when things are updated.)

[hollow epoch]

We Will Wait 🙏

[dull hawk]

It's still annoying, some of you guys have been waiting for 2 months now. It was supposed to be FULLY out a month ago. LethalUtilities/LethalEditor users have been waiting 1-2 months for me to work on the rewrites of those mods.

While this may revive LC modding a bit, the longer it takes, the less likely the chance of it doing so.

[hollow epoch]

We. Will. Wait.

[hollow epoch]

also wdym by revive? there 20k+ mods on thunder rn

[dull hawk]

It's been slowing down, and the general fan base of Lethal Company has been dying down a lot.

It's not too bad, but the longer it takes, the more it will die down.

[hollow epoch]

oh, :sad:

[dull hawk]

When Lethal Company gets its v50 update, it will definitely revive quite a bit.

[hollow epoch]

ALOT

if zeekers does what they say there doing

[dull hawk]

A major content update is all I have heard.

... and it definitely seems so from the updates I see on SteamDB.

[dull hawk]

Yeah, I say a bit a lot when I mean a lot.

[hollow epoch]

¬‿¬

Mods

[dull hawk]

Dang it, I suddenly have to do a lot more cleaning than anticipated. At least I still stand by beta releasing soon, I just can't give a specific day.

[hollow epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/well-be-waiting-james-dutton-tim-mcgraw-1883-well-be-waiting-for-you-gif-24553307

[pearl plover]

This just happens with all games when it’s been a while

not much you can do really

the content update will probably bring people back but I’d imagine a large number of mods will break and by the time they’re fixed it’ll have just started to die down again

[west surge]

really just depends on what breaks

[dull hawk]

Especially because a lot of modders have stepped out of the scene for a while.

[west surge]

i could see it not being that bad tbh

[pearl plover]

well yeah of course

if larger content mods break, people are less likely to mod, and if a library breaks then entire mods remain inaccessible

[west surge]

so aslong as im online the weekend it drops a good chunk of that problem is solved 😛

[dull hawk]

The good thing is that a lot of the modders that work on entire libraries/APIs like Batby are still around, so things like custom levels will be immediately fixed.

[dull hawk]

Yep. Lol

[west surge]

one of the big strengths of LLL is that the content is made more or less exactly how the content in vanilla is made

so its less prone to arbitarily break between updates / if it does we can consistently update it using vanilla as ref

[dull hawk]

Yeah.

[west surge]

like you can assetrip basegame and load up vanilla levels into LLL with no* changes

its clean with it

[dull hawk]

Nice.

It's how it should be. Lol

[surreal cove]

how much longer

[oblique marten]

+1 week

[surreal cove]

bros edging me untill release

[dull hawk]

Lol, it better not be.

Else I'm going to riot.

and I'm the one working on it. LOL

[oblique marten]

I'm sure it won't be lol

it's just the classic when posting that bothers me

it'll be done when it's done

[dull hawk]

When posting?

[oblique marten]

people asking "when will this feature be available" or "when will this release"

it's not constructive

I've had/seen my fair share of it and it often only serves to generate noise

I suppose you may be using it as motivation though

[west surge]

https://tenor.com/view/woody-toy-story-buzz-dab-me-up-dab-up-gif-26395273

[oblique marten]

lol

[dull hawk]

A bit, yeah, plus, it is on me for saying "almost done, should be out tonight" and then not getting it out when I said.

[oblique marten]

yeah

[dull hawk]

and multiple times at that

[oblique marten]

that's why I avoid coming up with deadlines for things like this, at least not without being incredibly pessimistic

there's always something that goes wrong, more often multiple things

[dull hawk]

I mean, at first, yeah, I had that problem, and then things really were seeming well and almost worked out perfectly, and then I came across a new issue, redid the code 75x, and delayed again. Lol

[oblique marten]

right yeah lol

it's always something you can't foresee

[dull hawk]

Yeah.

I can tell how a lot of behavior will be when typing my code, but some of it is utterly bizarre that I wouldn't have known.

(Like the Unity UI issue.)

[west surge]

me finding out unity doesn't support adding new tags at runtime ^

[dull hawk]

Lol, wait what?

[west surge]

can set tags to ones made in the project

can't add new ones

[dull hawk]

Ah, uh, well then, that's stupid.

[west surge]

i think it's a limitation to support some optimisation in the c++ side of things when using stuff like findobjectbytag

and comparetag

[dull hawk]

Ah, yeah, possibly.

[oblique marten]

I would have to imagine it just converts them to some sort of integer ID

but in that case... why not expose that

[west surge]

means custom footstep sound support went from just adding something to a dictionary to an entire custom material matching system

[oblique marten]

oh that sounds gross

[dull hawk]

Hm, well jeez.

[west surge]

its not awful

eh it is

its not a warcrime

[oblique marten]

lol yeah

the things we have to put up with in modding

[surreal cove]

the reason why im asking now, is kynxino always says its about to come out, and then it doesent. Which is ok, he should take his time, but hes also edgeing me, and I cant keep it in longer

[dull hawk]

LOL

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

I'm currently rewriting some behavior.

[west surge]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-3-vass-montenegro-did-i-ever-tell-you-the-definition-of-insanity-insanity-gif-9162815073500878983

[surreal cove]

this is like my most hyped mod

[dull hawk]

My insanity is that I'm trying to figure out what to call a certain class because I have so many variables of similar names that handle different things. LOL

[oblique marten]

my onion is that it's not worth sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for a mod release rather than waiting patiently, there's no way to predict when it'll be ready for mass consumption even if it does release today

[dull hawk]

It won't even be a full replacement for external mod manager users. Lol (yet)

[oblique marten]

I'm fully expecting to do a bit of testing of the mod and find some issues that prevent me from using it until they're fixed, but that's just how it goes with mods especially when it comes to compatibility

[dull hawk]

Yeeeep.

[west surge]

lll was meant to get an update two weeks ago 😢

[surreal cove]

"sitting on the edge" not what I mean by edging. But yea I agree, but I will be the number 1 tester

[oblique marten]

I know what edging is lmao

[dull hawk]

Jeez.

[oblique marten]

I wasn't referring to your phrasing, but you're clearly very invested

[oblique marten]

you got this

[surreal cove]

but also, its ok to be hyped and excited for a mod. Asking progress is Ok

[oblique marten]

burnout sucks but we'll be ready

[oblique marten]

I have no problem with asking about progress, but asking "when will it release" or "how much longer" puts undue pressure on someone doing something for fun

and like I mentioned, it's next to impossible to predict