Dark Lancer

[minor salmon]

they are no problem with 4

they have to fix second spé RB

[vast tangle]

So guys i'm new with this class. DPS is kinda strong right ?

[fresh imp]

Idk if it doesn't crit = time waste charging demonic focus waste

[drifting dock]

it should be around rank 4 in dps

among all classes

[minor salmon]

keep play summoner or sin

[vast tangle]

I'm sin :p But i'm kinda disapointing, and was playing lancer on reroll so

[minor salmon]

This classe is litteraly just an dps classe , outside = 0 utility

play BM

HM Block more utility

[drifting dock]

light bd/wind kfm > shadow wl > lancer

[minor salmon]

yeah play BD for dps + utility

you need book for stun , you need book for double KD but increased cd by twice

[tribal iris]

yea the class is pure dps

doesnt even have any cc outside of kd if u dont spec it

[minor salmon]

they have little smooth problem in fight

[tribal iris]

and 2 iframes only

[minor salmon]

maybe take counter for apply corrosive on boss

if you can counter

[tribal iris]

kinda pointless?

is erosion an issue, dont u have it perma up

with x and z

[minor salmon]

if you crit and if you want go melee

you can later tank VT if you have enought crit

[drifting dock]

it's 100% up, it's not an issue

[minor salmon]

if you crit

[drifting dock]

no

it's always up

crit has nothing to do with it

[minor salmon]

you dont understand

[vast tangle]

Is erosion share between all lancer ?

[minor salmon]

you dont know what vt is ?

it's litteraly ASURA Dual boss fire and frost

[tiny finch]

Taking counter is mostly for lmb build and for tanking specifically and its only for the insta boost on lmb

[tribal iris]

u mean to tank vt

[tiny finch]

Corrosion application is useless

[tribal iris]

on red side

[minor salmon]

up your damage

[tiny finch]

Z and X apply corrosion regardless if you crit

[ornate fox]

i think the iframe on 1 can be rly nice

[tiny finch]

The crit part on Z is the extra demonic energy regen

[minor salmon]

If you play LMB you dont want to go melee

mean X is useless

[tiny finch]

No it's not

Even on lmb build you still use X

[minor salmon]

with 16metter range

😂

X gave 5 metter you have to go melee

[vast tangle]

Erosion for all lancer guys ? On WB for example ?

[minor salmon]

or play at 5 metter

[tiny finch]

4+LMB build is the one where X is not needed

[minor salmon]

some issue probleme

[drifting dock]

lmb can't be played without X lol

4 can ignore it

[tiny finch]

That build is pure ranged

[drifting dock]

with perfect timing

[tiny finch]

Lmb is not pure ranged

You still have to be with 5m for X

[drifting dock]

yes

[minor salmon]

i dont with counter

[vast tangle]

What do you mean :p ?

[tiny finch]

Still have to actually counter something

It's unreliable

[tribal iris]

yes corrsion is for everyone

u would have perma corossion on wb

[vast tangle]

And the "grab" on CC boss with F skill, damage bonus is for everyone ? Or only lancer ?

[drifting dock]

only lancer

[tiny finch]

Only yourself

[tribal iris]

focus for all, cd for urself

[vast tangle]

Arf

[minor salmon]

i try party with lancer yesterday wp even with using the right build (E X 4 4 W LB )

some time the corrosive get out

even when the timer is 10sec +

[tiny finch]

Always play like you're the only lancer there

Just more reliable

[minor salmon]

i play like it bunny

[tiny finch]

Dont trust anybody

[minor salmon]

i just wanted try some try

[vast tangle]

XD, oki :p

[tiny finch]

Not talking to you hyrkan

Talking to zarpa

[minor salmon]

sometimes i charged my 4 when corrosive is at 5sec +

before i finish charged it = disasper before i use my 4 but i have plenty the time

even when is 10sec +

300 k damage lost at my gear x 2 if crit

[vast tangle]

And the skill 4 with long CD, is it a mandatory skill to play ?

[drifting dock]

most people don't play it atm

[minor salmon]

if you can play 4 4 . reduce 30sec from E mean need only few LB for making rotation

[drifting dock]

most people play LMB only

[vast tangle]

Which one does the more DPS ? LMB +4 or only LMB ?

[drifting dock]

depends

[minor salmon]

depends on entire fight i suppose

[drifting dock]

perfect secnario every 4 crits and low stacks, 4 lmb does more

[minor salmon]

since we dont have cc immune

[drifting dock]

but high stacks not 100% crit rate on 4s, lmb does more

[minor salmon]

i did 300 k dps on dummy with perfect rotation

i did 250k with only lb

[drifting dock]

lmb build should do more on dummy

due to rate

[minor salmon]

i speak with my gear

[drifting dock]

no matter the gear, if stacks are the same

though it's very close

few %

[minor salmon]

perfecct rotation is E X 4 4(dual crit) W(Z) LB >>> 300 k

E X or W(Z) LB Spam = 250k

im lv 59 .

if you are lv 75 . you can add litteraly double my damage or triple

[ornate fox]

almost its hard to mess up lmb build whereas messing up 4 build is very rough

[drifting dock]

yeah on lmb you can fail and not much changes

you fail on 4 and it's over

[minor salmon]

LB and 4 is litteraly based on crit cause both effect

if like me on WB Today miss every crit the LB effect doesnt apply = lost a lot of dps

[ornate fox]

yeah it still suffers, but with 4 its all or nothing if it crits or not

[minor salmon]

no crit is big lost

[drifting dock]

if you don't crit a 4, you lose the dmg from not critting, 2nd 4 hit, 15 seconds of cooldown, all demonic energy

if you don't crit a lmb, E comes back slower

[minor salmon]

yeah like today try to use 4 blue form + tab but dont help enought no crit

[tribal iris]

well it has built in crit, so most of the time u are gonna crit

[devout compass]

any guiders for fresh sbers

[tribal iris]

unlike lb build where there is high chance of failing if u fail to crit

[minor salmon]

I think with Card crit % can help a lot lancer

[ornate fox]

maybe im just bad but also chance of it getting interrupted / boss jumping etc

[drifting dock]

you miss 1 crit on 4 and that boss is now worse than lmb build

[minor salmon]

no dont worry we have nothing except the counter

only book block give immunity etc

and SS

[tribal iris]

well u dont really need more

if u are tanking it becomes harder most just yeti though

[minor salmon]

we have A but dont remember how to use it lol

[tribal iris]

its just Q like any other Q

[minor salmon]

yeah like BM

dash / a

[tiny finch]

First Q is normal 180 then you get a backstep on 2nd cast

We have 2 backsteps

[tribal iris]

wish the 2 had a low cd

[tiny finch]

I wish it stunned without a book

[tribal iris]

coming from bm with 3 dashes, feels bad

[tiny finch]

Why TF do we only have 1 cc without needing a book

[tribal iris]

the fm treatment

DL is just FM + WL

no iframes and no CC

but u get grab instead

[tiny finch]

At least fm has party skills

[tribal iris]

grab is better than whatever thing fm gives

[tiny finch]

4s grab that doesn't have any benefit to the party other than immobilizing the boss for 4s

Peak party skill

[tribal iris]

10% focus recovery is default

immobilizing and focus is mostly enough

[tiny finch]

There is no focus recovery at base

That's at blue

[tribal iris]

oh

gg

well

its something

[tiny finch]

[tribal iris]

but we have ultimate

[tiny finch]

10s of 5% increase dmg on a 15min cd

🗿

[devout compass]

So where do I get a skill build

oh u have one

[tiny finch]

In your mom

GOTTEN

[tribal iris]

pins

[devout compass]

is this optimizini?

[vast tangle]

If i hit twice with 4, i will reduce CD of E twice too ?

[ornate fox]

yes

[vast tangle]

Ok, so look like i should focus 48 LMB asap to see how "fun" is the class <<

[tiny finch]

90% of the gameplay is just hold down lmb

That's why it's called lmb build

4+lmb isn't much better

[drifting dock]

does anyone have parse counts, 1 min will do, for LMB+4 build?

dummy to be optimal

I'm getting 34,6 ap dmg per second on LMB build and 31,23 ap dmg per second on LMB+4 build, from parse calculations

but I only did a few lmb+4 dps tests before going full LMB, so I'd like to see another sheet to be sure

[mystic herald]

Anyone else notice ONLY while is msp if you tab after using 4 to enter demonic mode, I would blast like maybe 3 hits and then it will automatically swap me back to normal stance

and I would have to press tab again, hella annoying

[tribal iris]

ok pretty much ran the numbers for all the rotations possible for
50% CR ~ with 90% CR on 4.

4/LMB always came out ahead in terms of numbers. consistently 20-25% higher. At very high stacks it became 30% + due to diminishing numbers of single stacking.

but yes if u have 70-80% CR, lmb build will come out ahead cause of having a consistent 16sec rotation.

[tribal iris]

quite interesting that u can use ur RMB without losing boost cast on lmb

so whatever crit stack it provides could technically be perma kept without losing it

[tribal iris]

its a 5sec buff from rmb stacking

with 30 gm on rmb, u can pretty much maintain 60-65% crit rate on ur lmb only build and almost have perma E uptime by weaving in a rmb when ur buff is about to expire.

[tribal iris]

theoretically even in end game , a 65% crit rate should make your rotation have almost perma E.
RB E X Z LB x6 RB LB x8 RB LB x8 RB LB x6 repeat ( you will have additional 3 demonic if u rolled bad crit rng to make up for bad crit rng but u can press E as soon as its up.)
This should be 15-20% more DPS than basic lmb spam build simply by virtue of having waay higher up time of E buff and more crit rate by default.

[cold hinge]

Does DL have party utility?

[fresh imp]

Wow skyrus the man we all needed

So wouldn't that work with 4 too, rmb +4 for more crit if I got u right

Rmb E X Z 4

[jolly shell]

A pin, some party dps enhance but not a party protection if you mean that

[tiny finch]

pin doesn't increase party dps unless you count the focus recovery which is at blue book

[cold hinge]

Pin like, Destro/BD?...

[tiny finch]

no

it's sh1t pin

all it does is immobilize the boss for 4-6s depending on the book you have for it

[cold hinge]

I actually like the utility skills in this game, like Destro/Sin saving allies, not that it comes up often

[tiny finch]

and it's never worth taking it

[minor salmon]

i re cursed

[jolly shell]

all good had to 100% mine

[dull birch]

The badge multiplier has to be wrong, I don't believe that 1140% damage is only 60k more damage, I think it only applies to level 0, do you think it's a bug? I base it on the destroyer badge that gives me 920% on the x and practically doubles my damage

[young vector]

Its +11.4ap

Not multiply the skill dmg by 11

[tribal iris]

nop, 4 requires 5 sec to charge ur RMB buff will dissapear

[dull birch]

then destro badge work different ?

[fresh imp]

Rip thought this could solve the highroll double cast issue

[tribal iris]

nop that wont be viable since there is too mayn gm points investment for it to be sth like 48 48 30

its either lb/rb or lb/4

[tribal iris]

any WB rankings

[dull birch]

top 1 is lean

[polar elm]

then its settled lmb + 4 is better than lmb only kek

[dull birch]

yes is better 4

and lb when 4 is in cd

[drifting dock]

highest dps we have as a comparison to our whales is from NA, and he's full lmb

think he was doing 877k in the SS I saw

would be nice to see a fully whaled out lmb+4

to see the potential

[tribal iris]

877k? that looks like dummy dps

[drifting dock]

on WB

wasn't a dps SS, it was someone else's SS with dps from wb

and calculated the % difference

[tribal iris]

877k doesnt even seem possible

[drifting dock]

this guy

[tribal iris]

ok now it seems possible

[drifting dock]

indeed

[tribal iris]

he probably has all the crit cards to do 70% cr on this wb

enough to consistently be in E

[drifting dock]

ye

2x master hong is required to properly play LMB

all I'm missing from both sets is master hong...

smh

[tribal iris]

no sh it

[drifting dock]

well should get from events sooner or later

so that's not as big of a gate

[tribal iris]

although in BT

hong starts being a must have

and not an optional

cause wihtout hongs , u will have 40% CR

to be above the CR curve, u will need mortal enemies , rahu set and juvia one

[drifting dock]

I'm a good 10k soulpower from even thinking about BT, not to mention levels

so I've got time

[tiny finch]

domob does like 1.2m dps

give or take

[drifting dock]

on dummy?

[tiny finch]

yeah

[drifting dock]

yeah, I'd imagine lancer shines the most on dummy

especially with high crit cards with lmb build

[tribal iris]

like slasher bm in moonwater

god of dummy

[jolly shell]

is spear a sitting duck turret spamming lmb?

can u move at all?

[tribal iris]

u can move on lmb

not on 4

[limber vessel]

How lang can you Spam 4 outside of e until you are out of demonic Energy?

[tiny finch]

you can't spam 4

[limber vessel]

LMB sry

[tiny finch]

you charge it up to stg 4

depends on how much demonic energy you have

it costs 1 demonic energy

so

not hard to figure out

[limber vessel]

Do you get out of e with demonic Energy left though

[tribal iris]

u can almost perma spam it , it jst depends on crit rng on whether u are spamming it wiht E up

yes

4 gives 6

Z gives 4 if crit

rmb gives 1 every 2 hit ( 2 every 2 hit with V up )

[tiny finch]

*base 4 not demon 4 btw

[limber vessel]

So If you havent Crit enough after about 16 s you have to RMB. Assuming Not playing 48 GM 4

[tiny finch]

yes if crit with Z

it's all about the crits

do you get enough crits with lmb to reduce E cd enough and if not then gotta pray Z crits so you can stay in demon stance

otherwise you have to use 4 and tab back into demon

[limber vessel]

Doesnt 4 also need 8 demonic energy

[tiny finch]

10

and that's demon 4

i was talking about base 4

[minor salmon]

big big big whale

[tiny finch]

lmb build doesn't touch demon 4

[minor salmon]

I HAVE one master hong

i need second one and jinsoyun

[young vector]

Thunder Strike wasnt level adjusted tbf

[drifting dock]

ya the dps comparisons were done against our top players on thunderstrike

pre adjustment

[delicate slate]

so in general is better to go for more gm on lmb or in 4?

[agile badger]

any gameplay of class with books/build?

[minor salmon]

how much roll stats cost in divine equipement ?

[tribal iris]

if u are going lmb 4 build , u stack LMB till it reaches the cap of less % per GM

[delicate slate]

i got 9 leggies and dont know how to spread them

[tribal iris]

48/48 lb/4 > 96/48 lb/4 > 96/96 > 150/96

[delicate slate]

alright so i should go for equal with the extra on lb i guess?

[tribal iris]

yups

[delicate slate]

thanks mate you're awsome

[fresh imp]

WE WON les go

[tribal iris]

until some giga whales starts spamming lmb

[lean ermine]

LMB only gamers 💯

[polar elm]

Comparison is the thief of joy my friends

[tribal iris]

as long as its comparable enough , its all good

they can never enjoy the satisfaction of poking for 2m dmg

[subtle wind]

would this be a viable build as well? Idea is LMB spam with RMB for crit chance and one 4 for normal (6 demonic energy)
https://yast.vercel.app/?subView="TraitView"&p="NEOEU210126"&class="SpearMaster"&spec=0&neoSkills="H4sIAG9ddmkAA2vaEpyak5pckpoSnJ2Zk5OUn5_tmVI8vXGRZ8pZlvkQ6jGEWgehVkKoJRDqJITatxGs3TexuCS1qDK4JLEktXEbihDYlsz8vOKmZUamBgZGBi1L3YtSU_MYljjllKYyLAsoLSrISWVY4p6fk8IFVmKBTwkjADZsYb-5AAAA"

[drifting dock]

rmb is useless

these are all the books you need for LMB spam

[tribal iris]

nuh uh rmb build is good

[drifting dock]

those 4 purples and however many lmb you got

[tribal iris]

people jst havent tried it

[drifting dock]

[tribal iris]

it has perfect rotation

for end game

with perma E

[drifting dock]

for endgame, lmb itself has a perfect rotation with perma E

lol

rotation is : hold lmb with whale rate

[tribal iris]

u dont need to be a whale to do csa

43% cr aint gonna get u perma E

its gonna be scuffed rotation with too much lmbs being outside E duration

[drifting dock]

just need a tad under 60% and life is a dream

[tribal iris]

its nowhere near 60

[drifting dock]

what is

[tribal iris]

crit rate

[drifting dock]

of whom

[tribal iris]

of u

or whoever

[drifting dock]

lol

[tribal iris]

is not ubber whale

[drifting dock]

if I get 43, missing 13% from cards, and 6k rate, 7 levels compared to a maxed lancer

pretty sure 58 is at least achievable, which is enough

[tribal iris]

its not?

i get 45% on my BM on CSA

and BM has stone slash buff

[drifting dock]

oh, so that KR player just edited his dps meter results I guess

[tribal iris]

i have 15k cr

[drifting dock]

makes sense

[tribal iris]

no that KR player

is a whale

with card sets

[drifting dock]

????

[drifting dock]

what am I referring to here

if not card sets

and whales

[tribal iris]

im not talking about whales

[drifting dock]

who would plan their endgame build on some casual stats

[tribal iris]

im talking about doing end game dungeons

idk cause u are not a whale?

u can run csa without being ubber end game

but if i cant have proper rotation for it

whats the point

[drifting dock]

yes, the horrible rotation of having to use 4 tab and then E

the horror

how will we ever get through this ordeal

[tribal iris]

its not about 4 tab E

its about that rotation doing less dps

than rmb rotation

[drifting dock]

I'd love to see you showcase it

[tribal iris]

ur rotation is gonna be always

RB Z E X Z LB x6 RB LB x8 RB LB x8 RB LB x6 repeat

[drifting dock]

well, you can just showcase once you reroll, if the dps is indeed higher

otherwise it's just theorycrafting

I'm all for finding the optimal dps rota, but just wouldn't recommend a theoretical build for anyone asking

if no one has tested it out

[tribal iris]

easy enough to test the rotation even without having the setup

all u need is count for 1 rotation

[drifting dock]

in a perfect world indeed

but too many classes just can't produce their supposed ap/s values for some reason

so I'm skeptical until it's shown in real examples

did you calculate what the ap/s value is for that rmb rota?

[tribal iris]

yes

[drifting dock]

how much is it

[tribal iris]

on a 50% cr boss , it has 179 AP/s including the crit dmg bonuss inside and outside E

the regular LMB rotation is 150 AP/S

[drifting dock]

?

[tribal iris]

its with 96 GM vs 124 GM

[drifting dock]

Ah lol

Calculate it without any gm bonuses

Otherwise it’s meaningless as a comparison

[tribal iris]

gm bonuses is needed

cause u will have 2 less books

[drifting dock]

Well, all other class ap/s values have been calculated with the base values

So this tells us nothing

[tribal iris]

well i dont think pure ap/s means anything

cause crit dmg bonuses cannot be added to it

[drifting dock]

It gives a good idea of what to expect, when the bonuses within the same class can be factored in afterwards

[tribal iris]

personally dont think so

light BD will look like shi t vs a wind BDs ap/s

[drifting dock]

Works for most classes at least

As long as we know what buffs and uptime the builds have, it’s easier to estimate with base values alone

[tribal iris]

i mean i alr have the excel sheet for uptimes for all builds

its messy af

[drifting dock]

is that average 46,98 ap rota for lmb+4?

I fail to read this sheet

doesn't seem like a base ap number

[tribal iris]

no thats for 4/LMB build

[drifting dock]

is there a difference between lmb 4 and 4 lmb build

am I missing something

[tribal iris]

no

i misread ur sentence

was mid run

[drifting dock]

that's a wildly high ap/s value

does it include something other than base

[tribal iris]

base and badges only

LMB has

50.5 ap/s

[drifting dock]

ah badges

[tribal iris]

on high cr fights

[drifting dock]

my values were pure counts as ap/s values

from a dummy parse

34,6 for lmb and 31,2 for lmb+4

the lmb+4 rota was with only 1 X at start, then only LMB/E/4 for the rest of the rota

[tribal iris]

yea that seems about right, ull prolly lose more ap/s on real world dummy parse. since lmb dummy parse has no moving parts other than LMB and E

and X Z

BM has what 33 AP/S across all buiild on perfect rotation

DL is just insane

[drifting dock]

Yeah it’s definitely above bm

Just below bd/kfm/wl

Though for wls for some reason most never get close to the theoretical ap values

[tribal iris]

still yet to see a wl that does dmg after 10sec

[drifting dock]

aside from souryuuha, it's silent on that front

and that giga na whale who posted his parse in disc

but his gear was so above and beyond anyone else that it's hard to comment on

[young vector]

I think with warlock you need those crit% cards to really maximize

Whereas bd and kfm already having super strong crit buffs by themselves

[drifting dock]

warlock does have some nice flat rate bonuses though

also shadow has no rotation reliance based on rate, so that helps

iirc ice benefits far more from rate

[young vector]

It does generate more shadow orbs when critting

[drifting dock]

what I mean by rotation reliance, is failing to do a perfect rotation without crits

[young vector]

They're great, but there's still a ton of room to take advantage of extra crit%

Especially with their high base crit dmg%

[drifting dock]

yeah more crit is always nice

though ice sitting on 24% flat bonus already is pretty wild

[young vector]

Idk more dragon helix casts sure sounds closer to perfect 😅

[drifting dock]

you can think of it like LMB build on lancer

no crit = no E = rotation gone

same with lmb 4, no crit on 4, rotation gone

[young vector]

Yeah its a ton, though I do think shadow has taken over despite of that now

[drifting dock]

meanwhile shadow just chills with a bit less dmg

[young vector]

But not really easy to compare because the whale shadow WLs have a lot more gear than their competitors on Ice

[drifting dock]

warlocks have been a mystery for a long time

if it wasn't for sour, everyone would think shadow does no dps compared to ice

meanwhile ice should theoretically do more dps

but idk what the issue is as I haven't played it

[tribal iris]

dawncrest shoulda had lv 76 dummies

[drifting dock]

a man can dream

would love to test real dps

[young vector]

I think thats what they call worldbosses nowadays

Besides the new one

[drifting dock]

new one is so bad for me at lvl 70

rate finds a new low

[tribal iris]

new one has diff lvl?

thought they are all same lvl

[drifting dock]

I thought so as well

but I get 6% less rate on new one

compared to all the others

[young vector]

I dont know

I was mainly referring to the rest being a lot more afk-dps friendly

I guess the silverfrost one can be annoying too

[tribal iris]

eh isnt new one afk friendly

nothing does cc

[young vector]

Excuse me

[tribal iris]

only his kick purple and puddle explosions cc

[young vector]

theres a bunch more

like the inner/outer aoe

[tribal iris]

that didnt cc

was jst dmg

[young vector]

its a red aoe

[tribal iris]

yea

but only dmg

no cc

[drifting dock]

outer ccs

[tribal iris]

oh

cant relate

im melee

[drifting dock]

flings you up into the air

[tribal iris]

for melee its afk fight

[minor salmon]

15nd

[tribal iris]

thunderstrike had 55% CR

was it a one offb ug?

[ornate fox]

i had 43% crit rate so idk

[tribal iris]

wb might be lv 70 or 71

[tribal iris]

wat level and stats

[drifting dock]

I had 41% rate

at start it was bugged

was giving me 60% rate for 30 seconds

then it fell off

[tribal iris]

kiss is still top 2 damn

[ornate fox]

im iseo rossi

[tribal iris]

why did they have to put the 10 coins at end of bp

huh

kiss doesnt have X on, lmb only

what is piercer btw?

[ornate fox]

piercer is the base 4 i think

[tribal iris]

classic translation error

i hope not too many whales swap soon

top 10 is nice to have

[minor salmon]

A lot atm does

[devout compass]

Anyone got gameplay for this?

Didnt seem too fun

[drifting dock]

@devout compass

now that i've played LMB only for a while, I'll give lmb+4 a proper shot again, so I have good data to compare

pray for me

[drifting dock]

I want to kill myself

did mookwan

failed every single 4 while tanking

[mystic herald]

Holy is this eu? ur top 1 is only 0.69%?

in NA our #1 hits like 2% +

[drifting dock]

your bosses take longer

and none of our whales rolled to lancer yet

[mystic herald]

how is ours longer?

[drifting dock]

don't ask me

you kill it slower is what I mean, so everyone has more %

at least that's how it was for previous WBs

idk if that's the case with this one

[mystic herald]

all of our mega whales already swapped

everyone top 5 and above are at 33k+ sf

this is our rank one with 2%+ dmg

[drifting dock]

all mega whales here stayed on their classes so far

[mystic herald]

didn't get todays wb ss but this was ytd

[drifting dock]

whats your dps there

[mystic herald]

i do 560k+

[drifting dock]

on that run?

[mystic herald]

yes

[drifting dock]

you're telling me rank 1 is doing 1.5m?

[mystic herald]

Thats why I ask'd you why you thought we're slow

lmao

[drifting dock]

well our bosses do take less time on average

been like that for a long time

but that aside

[mystic herald]

im no where near whale status but lancer its just crazy dps

[drifting dock]

ah nvm

90% rate

that's a boosted thunder

[mystic herald]

yea idk the kill diff between our severs so

[drifting dock]

still 1.5m on boosted would make it the top dps class, if I'm not wrong

[mystic herald]

by a landslide

[drifting dock]

haven't seen over 1m on thunder before

[tribal iris]

Oh u guys had the bugged thunderstrike

[mystic herald]

the wat

wat bug

[tribal iris]

New map thunderstrike spawns as lv 50

[drifting dock]

the crit rate bug

[tribal iris]

Instead of 71

[mystic herald]

i can link another boss but its similar

[drifting dock]

another boss would be nice

if you got dps

with normal rate

[mystic herald]

this

this one our top is 1.8-1.9%

im kinda the same

[tribal iris]

Wat was dps

[drifting dock]

got dps for this?

[tribal iris]

That meter , minato with them lips

[mystic herald]

haha

btw can yall check out the lancer bug thing i posted under bug reports

i swear to god it keeps happening

only in lunar

[tribal iris]

Its slower than ours for sure.

[mystic herald]

https://discord.com/channels/1164688788086345830/1464766458453299250

[tribal iris]

At 250k dps i dont even reach 0.4

[mystic herald]

yall got more whales

[tribal iris]

That would be 0.54 if i had 369k dps

[mystic herald]

i guess

or more players

[tribal iris]

2nd one

[mystic herald]

honestly i think it's players, na is kinda dying

[tribal iris]

Yea

U guys have bigger whales

[mystic herald]

we did get a lot of returning players

but they got some massive catchup to do

[half bridge]

whitch one of the badge we need for lancer ??

no need thank you

[drifting dock]

I'm done

do not do it

anyone considering lmb+4

jesus christ

[still jackal]

[drifting dock]

LMB rate in nexus was 49%

darkpiercer rate 80%

nice 50% rate

and if the first one does not crit

it's over

also tanking is next to impossible on active bosses

who cc a lot

if you're not the strongest in your party, and you love to gamble, it's fun

[fading bolt]

I think 50% rate is a buff of your current rate, like u have 50% rate in this boss, it should be 50+25

If u get 80 it is even better than what was suposed to get

[drifting dock]

Well, it results in the same unfortunate outcome of being a complete gamble

As the build relies on the first hit of 4 critting

And that would mean that it could never reach 100% rate in latest content, so using it would be rough

[tiny finch]

Added rotation videos for both LMB and LMB+4 Build (rip my nonexistent gold)

[tribal iris]

dont think the entire 50% is like that, because numbers dont make sense like that.
either it has diminishing stacking like sword said or its a mix where 20% is flat and 30% is a multiplier but 30% goes before 20% cause its definitely possible to have 100% if u have 70% cr.

[sudden kiln]

@drifting dock So u think full lmb is better ?

[minor salmon]

i dont think lmb is better

All depends on crit based

[tiny finch]

lmb is more reliable and consistent

[minor salmon]

Yeah if you crit in WB i didnt crit with LMB but i crit with 4 . i dont know why

(maybe the 30% boost)

[tiny finch]

lmb+4 needs that 4 to crit for a 2nd cast otherwise you're fked

[minor salmon]

make it more dps and ranking

[tiny finch]

but theoretically

lmb+4 is supposed to be the higher dmg build

it just

[minor salmon]

i speak for lv 59 (i m ) 7 K Crit / 5K dc

[tiny finch]

isn't that in practicality

[minor salmon]

i didnt crit in wb

except with 4

mean i dont have the LB Reduce time 2.5 sec at gm 48

Low level lancer with lancer even with gm 48 is botten , after gm 48 is realy high for me it's better than destroyer at my level

[tiny finch]

im outdpsing ppl who way outgear me

[minor salmon]

same

[tiny finch]

it's so stupid lmao

[minor salmon]

i try on asura yesterday

I beat a KFM(24k sf / lv 75 + ) on Asura with 30k DPS, although he didn't attack during fire or ice domains.

The class is so situational depending on the fight, I think for example even trying several times on ssg and exile which has a lot of area animation it is very hard to stay 4 seconds on the 4 key, so the best remains the LB key in this situation.

[tiny finch]

mhm

if you have multiple leggys, getting 48 on 4 and then rest on lmb is perfectly fine

however i can't, in good faith, reccomend that to the avg player

[minor salmon]

I haven't tried Up and Down, Yeti, etc. yet. But depending on the fight, 4 LB or only LB depends on the difficulty of being able to charge for 4 seconds.

[tiny finch]

who doesn't have multiple leggy skills

[minor salmon]

Maybe yeah

i dont play on CN / KR serv for looking about top gear classe since they love Min MAX

[tiny finch]

ya i always look at the avg person

[minor salmon]

I m not whale , i m little fish i have 2 leg book i cant spend 200 € on 2 random leggy book or select atm

[tiny finch]

im planning on getting the hajoon selector and 100g leggy box

[minor salmon]

i already did the hajoon

[tiny finch]

however idk if it's confirmed yet if the paid class change is 1/account or 2/account since i alrdy used the free

if it is 2/account then great i get 2 selectors

otherwise i gotta either feel lucky or deal with 1 selector

[minor salmon]

if you have wrong book you paid 225 gold per gold book you want transfer

[tiny finch]

i alrdy have gold lmb

[minor salmon]

you have 3 more / 4 more day

[tiny finch]

i got it from stream book

and since im not lvl 60 i can't use certs and by the time i'm able to swipe the timer for swapping books will be long gone

it's got like 2 days left on it

i swapped over like day 1 of patch

which fked me over a bitr

[minor salmon]

Anyway i dont want everyone switch for lancer

since lack of utility

[tiny finch]

fr

all we got is dmg

[minor salmon]

i already seem BD switch to lancer

yeah

but you need utility in dungeon / raid

[tiny finch]

our only "party" skill is dogwater

[minor salmon]

you cant go 6 lancer

i need leg card like ikasun

or jinsoyun card set

[clear hamlet]

what would be the recommended build if all I'll be doing is just MSP?

does 4 reset if it crits a mob that I'm not targeting?

[tiny finch]

full lmb

no reason to touch 4 in msp

[drifting dock]

It’s 1 to 1 the pve rotation basically

Just e debuff spam lmb, if E drops before the cooldown is over, 4 tab lmb spam

[clear hamlet]

tyty

[clear hamlet]

my first mob kill with Lancer

ffss

[sudden kiln]

I am at 3 leggies and like 8.5k crit 6k cdmg

[minor salmon]

WTF on lvl 50 ?

Il farmed 5hours yesterday

I get only epic chest on lv 60+

[clear hamlet]

it was a 60 mob

[tribal iris]

eh saying that is kinda wrong, both builds suffer from not critting.
Since 4 has a built in crit boost. Its still going to come out on top on low crit fights.
The only thing that makes lmb/4 build worse is the ease of execution in fights. Getting CCed during 4 charge up is going to be most of ur DPS loss than missing a crit 15-20% of the time. cause the 80% of the time you crit makes up for it.

[tribal iris]

everything has the same rate

its just 0.025% drop from mob, so its just rare af

got 2 yesterday in 5hrs. pretty lucky

[drifting dock]

I just can not wait

for you to actually see what it's like to use 4 in endgame content

it can't be described in words

[tribal iris]

i think yeti is pretty sh it for it

but csa/new dungeon BT are all super easy to DPS as long as u have a tank

[drifting dock]

if you are not tanking yeti is still fine, but not critting on 4 is so bad it's wild

yeah the entire build depends on you being weaker than your team, which is kind of annoying

but the main issue is the rate

both suffer from rate

but it's not even in the same universe

the difference in sufferage

E drops so hard on non crit, that even 4 tab lmb spam is not enough

you have to Z V rmb spam + 4 tab for full demonic and you might make it

[tribal iris]

yes if Z crits and 4 is up , ull get it back

if Z dont crit and 4 is up , u need R LMB with V

if both are down, u need 6 RMB

[drifting dock]

and lord have mercy is 4 is cancelled

when you see that 55 sec cd and all your demonic is gone

never want to tank on that build again

which is sad, because other than those glaring issues

it's so fun to play

make the entire charge cc immune and make 4 do 2 hits regardless of crit

and I'll play it

[tribal iris]

well

if u know u are gonna be cced

jst dont use 4?

[drifting dock]

Great idea

[tribal iris]

like u dont need to use 4 right away

[drifting dock]

Like I said before, it’s your gold, you’ll see what everyone who tried it here in high content means and why they swapped

Things happen

And it makes you suicidal

[tribal iris]

if im playing it, ill be playing 4 build only

[drifting dock]

If you can freely dps without the risk of ever getting aggro, then you only worry about the crit

Can’t get cced then

But even then it’s rough, as your entire run is ruined dps wise from 1 non crit

At least it’s a dopamine rush

[still jackal]

[minor salmon]

Bsod game

[tribal iris]

after seeing wtd fms and destro last patch, burst builds jst seems insanely good in some situations

[drifting dock]

no need to worry, the entire class is a burst build

[tribal iris]

eh single hit bursts just hits different

[vast tangle]

Sword is trustable

I saw him in dungeon yesterday, i was shock

Damage are insane

[drifting dock]

If only my gear was up to date

[minor salmon]

YES Zarpa lancer have good damage

better than FM / WL

less utility maybe

[drifting dock]

well, not better than WL, but fm for sure

[minor salmon]

fm have anti damage zone

i dont know for WL my bad

oh yeah wl have immunity for X second if remember live

tanking asura vt with it

people Need HMB

[frigid nest]

anyone know why when im hold 4,and then release after 4 orb,sometime it cancel

[tribal iris]

im yet to see any lancer in my dungeon runs though

[minor salmon]

except if i get PL i cant Up & Down lol

[minor salmon]

anyone have good spot for msp lv 60 farm ?

[polar elm]

Time to login to the game and miss every 4 on bosses

its still a fun class tbh

I like switching from ranged to melee and back to range again

[minor salmon]

I love it too but hard for utility ^^

[polar elm]

I feel sorry for the whale lancers who actually have to tank

I tried carrying a few low levels and alt yesterday on Nexus, I kept getting knocked around like a sack of potatos while tanking

[lean ermine]

I tank all the time using full LMB build

[polar elm]

yeah im using

4 LMB

[lean ermine]

I think on queens im averaging around 300k

[polar elm]

Needless to say, not a single 4 has hit its target that night lol

then again, its a skill issue cuz im a scrub

[lean ermine]

Haha yeah the main reason I didn’t do 4 build is the standing still and me having to tank as well

[tribal iris]

4 could use qol of being either able to move or being cc immune

[lean ermine]

Lmb only + blocking purple book is goated

Tanked BT last night as well

[polar elm]

CC imunity, shorter charging time, being able to move, or at the veeeeeery least some way to garantee the crit to make it high risk high reward. lots of ways to make it work

[polar elm]

I still have faith in 4 :c

[drifting dock]

cc immunity and guaranteed 2nd hit on hit at 48gm instead of on crit

and I'm all in

[polar elm]

4 will get buffed eventually

I just hope it happens before gunner release since ill be rerolling again anyways lul

[tribal iris]

gunner

ew

[polar elm]

me few braincells

me like pewpew

[tribal iris]

was gunner b4 or after sf in live

[polar elm]

no risk high reward type shy

gunner since release

love of my life

[polar elm]

after

[drifting dock]

meanwhile I enjoyed maining light archer the most

eos 10 years before that ever releases

[polar elm]

Thank god theyre skipping SF

[drifting dock]

[polar elm]

or at least I hope they do

most boring class imo

[tribal iris]

??

SF is the best class

[minor salmon]

give me best msp spot for lancer 😂

[tribal iris]

Neo SF can go so hard if hybrid build is actually viable

[minor salmon]

i hope soulfighter or gunner being out soon

[polar elm]

ew

[young vector]

Dont be a hater 😔

[polar elm]

Well since the the gunner bug appeared in TW

im assuming gunner will be next, not sf

[young vector]

It means literally nothing

[minor salmon]

if they out gunner i will play Shadow directly

[polar elm]

https://tenor.com/view/hl2-hl3-half-life-3-hopium-hope-gif-7246120153840726923

Dont rain on my hopes

[clear hamlet]

the only reason why gunner appeared is because its a copy-paste feature from Live

[drifting dock]

one of the first quests in neo featured a warden weapon

no sign of a warden yet

[polar elm]

https://tenor.com/view/lg6ykhd9-smadhing-table-gif-14563240760786650988

[drifting dock]

would be a fun wildcard though

[minor salmon]

I switch WL to Gunner because Broken Burst

and broken in pvp

[tribal iris]

gunner mains in live were worse than fm mains in neo

[clear hamlet]

any post-awakening class will probably require some extra dev time apart from actually just porting them over into NEO's book system

[minor salmon]

idk i stop after 3nd raid (TT)

[polar elm]

we getting gunner then EoS

[minor salmon]

gunner have a lot of legendary book in neo xD

[fresh imp]

What will we play if EOS

Guys in the lmb build is it safe to completely ditch 4 hongmoon hm points?

I've friend who want to play lmb build and I've seen a high gear player without any stacks on 4 so

[drifting dock]

my dps distribution in lmb build is 99% LMB

think it's safe to ditch everything

[fresh imp]

Thanks !

is not me tho, i refuse to play lmb build lol need some gambling with 4 and a mood breaker with it

[polar elm]

Real Life

[minor salmon]

nobody give his msp spot ? lol i dont farm a lot of gold i think , i can do better

[drifting dock]

there's no special spot

it's the same as it always was

all classes farm the main spots if they are free

[minor salmon]

i dont know the main spot ^^

[drifting dock]

that I can't help with, no idea how to explain it

just go to the 60 area, take 5 camps, and rotate those

only choose camps with minimum 2 big thick mobs per camp

with those requirements, and 5 camps, you should find the main rota

[minor salmon]

5 camp i dont know wow to find it

[young vector]

Left side of the map under the windstride point

And topright of the map

Dont remember the names of the zones

[minor salmon]

ok

[tribal iris]

why would u do that

[fresh imp]

I can do it I just don't like it :c

[tribal iris]

well u can remove points from Darkstrike

but u should have points in farstrike

[fresh imp]

No not me speaking for a friend idk Y B for exp has no points on 4

I mean hm stacks

[tribal iris]

gm

or hm

[fresh imp]

Ah gm

Bruh my neurons do be dying these days wtf

I forgetti

[tribal iris]

wait he doesnt even run farstrike book?

i think u need atleast 1 farstrike book for the demonic focus

actually i think Y B is just waiting

he has 7 leggy books left to convert

[fresh imp]

Ah then that would change it yeah

Dosent leggy lmb + 48 gm Reset E tho if Z crits

I'm 42 gm in it purple and pretty close to resetting it

[tribal iris]

it depends on the crit rate on the dungeon

if u have 50% CR , u will need both Z crit and farstrike

if u have less u need more than that

if u have more , u are good with eitehr

[acoustic ginkgo]

Whata the point of having the skill legendary multiple times over?

[delicate slate]

Lean cooking?

[tribal iris]

thats my recipe lets goo

[young vector]

Grandmaster points increase skill damage

That is why you see neo skill builds involve as little skills as possible

[acoustic ginkgo]

Ohh gotcha ty

[vast nova]

wl

[drifting dock]

I hope it works, if crit issues were even somewhat resolved, would be wild

[fresh imp]

Thanks

[drifting dock]

[minor salmon]

they all switch to LMB 😂

[tribal iris]

pls post new ranking

lean is using the rmb recipe

[minor salmon]

i dont why rmb maybe for V RB

maybe crit rate buff is long cd idk

i dont have money for these try

[drifting dock]

I'm about to cry myself to sleep

I had 28% rate on this boss

for 70% of the fight

wtf is this

I ended at 35%, after hitting a low of 22% and climbing

same bug as thunder strike but other way around

there it was 90% then dropped down

[minor salmon]

yeah

[tribal iris]

ponyo is

4 LMB

these rankings kinda all over the place

kiss does insane dmg for his SF, but his stat is kinda high

for his SF to

[drifting dock]

it's all crit rate with this class

and idk if this is a bug with the class or the boss

[tribal iris]

its jst bad rng

[drifting dock]

but it's all over the place on world bosses

did you see my dps be half of what it was like 80% of the fight

then came back at the end

[tribal iris]

yea u were like 130-150k

[drifting dock]

yeah insane, was 22% rate at lowest

then it slowly went up to 35% at the end

meanwhile it's 42-45% on meganura all fight

[tribal iris]

there is also chance some peeps eating cc i guess

most people dont have experience fighting these bosses with actual rotation

[minor salmon]

kiss have this

Lean dont have any % crit if i remember well

[tribal iris]

ah

yea that thing is a bigger diff

[rigid fiber]

silly question :3 : whats the LMB build rotation

[tribal iris]

Its in the video in the pins

Use 4/rmb V as needed if E ran out

[rigid fiber]

aight thx

[acoustic ginkgo]

Is that a flat rate bonus?

And the bonus effect is like doing 3 instances of 1360 of damage?

[minor salmon]

idk . maybe Sword know

[drifting dock]

if you mean onrush, it has a % chance to trigger, then when it does, the next 3 hits will be guaranteed critical hits and deal additional damage

and flat rate bonus is flat at first

but it diminishes like everything else

no idea when and at what rate, but it does

[young vector]

At 100 - crit% from your crit stat (depends on boss ofc)

[tribal iris]

if all the crit sources are stacking with each other then its always diminishing stacking

even the 1st one wont be 5%

[young vector]

Only when it causes you to go above 100%

(Which is technically anytime onrush procs too I guess)

[tribal iris]

hm?

why would it substract when its over 100

[young vector]

Let's say you have 50% normally and a +1000% crit buff with a non-100% uptime

Your "average" would be above 100%

But your actual crit rate would be lower than 100%

[tribal iris]

dont think this relates to what hes saying

the card sets supposedly give flat rates but they dont additively stack with each other

since card sets are 100% uptime. it should always reflect a +5%

[young vector]

Depends on your class

[young vector]

Would have to see prove of that

Seems easier to test if someone has multiple crit dmg% cards though

[tribal iris]

it really do make sense from the calcs people are getting.
and that parse for lancer from chinese guy

a 58% crit on lmb probably means he has 15-16% crit rate % sets.

which would put his base crit around 42-43 , with 4's crit stacking with crit % sets and its own crit % boosts . it would add another 47.xx putting it just above 90% but not 100%.

1 - [1 - (1 - crit rate % ) × (1 - crit rate %)]

prolly uses some generic diminishing stacking formula like this

although it mostly doesnt matter for small numbers like 10-15%

[young vector]

What sort of difference are we actually talking about on those parses

And couldnt it have just been down to mantra procs

[tribal iris]

91% on 4 and 58% on lmb

mantra procs and onrush procs should eventually even out in long fights

[young vector]

hmm thats definetly an unexpected difference

Would be interesting to hear if light BDs are experiencing the same

(I wouldnt be surprised if the issue is actually with the skills crit buff though)

[quaint spire]

Still trying to figure out which build I should go for with 5 or 6 leg books.

Any pointers?

[quaint spire]

Ended up going the 4 build,

[pallid gulch]

I'm possibly thinking 30 gm rmb + rest lmb build, had enough of RNG big hits from execute destro days, not fun playing gamba with DPS especially in higher end dungeons/raids etc. For me I always prefer to build consistency over burst.

[tribal iris]

more people beleiving in rmb build

[drifting dock]

still waiting for someone to post some results smh

focus seems like it would be an issue

[polar elm]

sooooo lean just swapped to LMB + RMB build

is 4 officially dedge ?

[tribal iris]

there is no focus issue

cause 4 RMB + X costs 10 focus

Z recovers 11

if u have atleast 1 focus mantra u are above the total focus regen per rotation

[drifting dock]

That’s a wild dps drop though

Having to stance switch and back

[tribal iris]

u dont have to do anything?

u jst Z at end of rotation when u are out of demonics for lmb

[drifting dock]

What

You won’t be out ever

[tribal iris]

what

[drifting dock]

With rmb

That’s the entire benefit along with rate

[tribal iris]

u will be

wdym

[drifting dock]

lol what

[tribal iris]

if only recovers 1 demonic every 2 hits

[drifting dock]

Every hit

With the mystic badge

[tribal iris]

every 2 hit

mystic needs V

V has cd

[drifting dock]

Nope

Not the highest one

Or even the sf one

Neither needs v

[tribal iris]

oh SF one

but it still isnt infinite demonic

u dont wanna RMB

other than to refresh buff

[drifting dock]

You only need a total of 4 demonic energy usually with low rate to compensate, that come from the 4 tab combo after E

Rmb would give enough to make it through the drought

Low rate being like 45

The dps loss is quite steep if you force the end of E

As in let it run out to lose stance for focus

So the build would potentially benefit very low rate players only

[tribal iris]

yea the vast majority of players.
giga whales should jst go lmb only

since their crit % cards can sustain perma lmb

45% - 48% is what a normal geared player would have if they attempted CSA/BT/Den

[limber vessel]

1 Leg 4 worth for the 6 demonic Energy in Basic stance? 2 RMB Rest LMB

[ornate fox]

Im using 1 leg 4 still and all rest in lmb

Personally ive found alternating between 4>tab and z/v/rmbs enough to get back into e after bad crit rng

Probably not optimal dps but easy

[compact smelt]

what is 48gm?

[drifting dock]

if you got leggies for days sure

6 is always better than 4 for safety

[quaint spire]

With 6 leggies book, would the LMB RMB spec be doable, and how should I distribute my books across LMB RMB and 4?

I went the 4 charge build and Im lowkey worried its gonna be too annoying to hit in a real scenario (havent ran anything yet)

[tribal iris]

for lmb rmb u only need 2 RMB leggy

rest in lmb

[quaint spire]

I see. And how does the build play exactly? The charge build had a 12 secs ish cycle that was straightforward, is this build similar?

im asking a lot because i have to commit like 650 gold to end up switching if I decide to

[tiny finch]

spam lmb and use rmb only to upkeep crit buff

rest is the same as usual

[quaint spire]

U can usually reset's E cooldown before running out of demonic energy without ever pressing 4 I assume?