oh thats a good point actually
#Summoner
slow jasper
crit rate boost should be the factor that sunflower build need the most
even Im playing hornet, I dont think it will be relevant with hornet build if you already had leg hornet
except crit rate boost is for everyone in the party and not just yourself
I could be imagine too much
solemn oar
5% crit for party is insanely huge
zinc vault
yep, people might reach 50% crit-rate in your party 
solemn oar
sf summoners arent gonna wanna be stacking 5 poison again for hammer
zinc vault
i wonder when they'll introduce soul in neo
that'd solve most of the focus / crit-rate issues
and nc would be happy too cause they add 1 more p2w item
solemn oar
im sure wel get a new gear slot at some point
needs to always be a chase item of some kind
outer hamlet
crit is a party buff ?
zinc vault
seems like it
outer hamlet
hornest 18.25->25.75
hammer gm alwaise been weird on yast
wow
hornest +44%no honey,+61% with honey
SF+13%, SSF+4%
+165xAP on both for badge hornest and +60for SF
considering you throw 2sf for 1lmb rmb it's +330xAP vs +120xAP
dusty yarrow
Badge
- Rose 85% -> 250%
- Bee 340% -> 1800%
- Hornet 85% -> 250%
- Sunflower 110% -> 170%
Rose
- Chain 1.50 -> 2.25
- Photosynthesis 1.85 -> 2.70
- Venomous 1.90 -> 2.70
Bee 18.25 -> 25.75
Hornet 7.60 / 1.20 -> 10.95 / 3.30
Sunflower 6.15 / 7.40 -> 7 / 7.70
gusty kiln
Yay crit buff on hammer after I put hammers on
outer hamlet
crit buff is better for SF but this buff feels so weak
we just need to know how 48 works again
does it do 1->2->3->4->5+5%cr->1
or 1->2->3->4->5+5%cr->5 (let me hope)
or 1->2->3->4+5%cr->0 like it is now
dusty yarrow
this buff on bee is amazing
outer hamlet
the bonk is the crazyest
slow jasper
wow
oh wow
x2 damge
so the hammer deal more damge when using with rumblebee instead of sunflower now
slow jasper
rose chain still has lower damge
hmm, thought it would scale the same as the rest
so, any new infor about the crit buff?
snow valley
So how is now hornest compared to sf?
slow jasper
hornet got buffed quite hard ngl
purple hornet from 6.10x to 9,30x
alongs with speed hammer
it now deals double the damge when using along with rumblebee
snow valley
I still don't like idea of using cat to dps. Especially when boss moves a lot.
slow jasper
I still don't like idea of using cat to dps. Especially when boss moves a lot.
You can mix with clawnado
the cat goes instantly to the target
I tried it, but it costs 3 focuses
without leggies, focus lost is an issue
dusty yarrow
purple hornet from 6.10x to 9,30x
check the badge %
slow jasper
check the badge %
holy that's huge
snow valley
I hope sf price will drop now. Because some people will jump to buy hornet now.
dusty yarrow
I hope sf price will drop now. Because some people will jump to buy hornet now.
I don't believe it.
snow valley
It was less than 3k dg yesterday in EU. I'll wait a bit more and see how it changes.
slow jasper
It was less than 3k dg yesterday in EU. I'll wait a bit more and see how it chan...
I sold it for 3k7 in TW yesterday
1k currently in KR
solemn oar
I mean given that hornets big thing was just having easy access to defense shred, with sunflower now being able to spec it as well with leg books being way more accessible
it makes sense for them to make some drastic buffs to hornet to put its dps more in line with sunflower
i still want some cheap leg hornets before all yall start buyingem out though, so hold off please 
digital depot
is rerollin to leg hornet worth 
solemn oar
might be cheaper and just as effective
digital depot
i hit the book today
solemn oar
rumble will forever be capped at 40% def shred though
so unless they buff rumble its never gonna be bis for raid unless you have other 50 shred smns in party
gonna be between hornet and sunflower imo
i think you should sell me your hornet for cheap and stay sunflower 
digital depot
xd
solemn oar
its likely gonna just come down to playstyle preferences
also until we know 100% if the 5% crit is raid wide or not
if it is, hornet will have a much easier time upkeeping that.
dusty yarrow
rumble will forever be capped at 40% def shred though
The big boom of the bee is the bleeding.
But for the raid, the chances of having someone with that are high
solemn oar
yeah, on b1/4 its probably fine, but when it comes to 2/3 youre gonna wanna have good shred across the different bosses
but yeah the bleed is crazy strong
i really wish theyd make bleed a bit more accessible across classes
dusty yarrow
The only thing I have to test now is Petal vs. Hive, especially with that huge buff to honey
dusty yarrow
I know, but hive is 4s
solemn oar
it gets extended a lot from 30gm
dusty yarrow
and I'm using dran/tumble/dng
solemn oar
hive gives some party focus, and hornets can still benefit a lot from focus regen
once you hit leg hornet/queen bee
you end up needing a lot more
youre only 30gm rn right?
dusty yarrow
today yes
solemn oar
yeah, blue petals might end up being roughly equal give or take, but even than honey is big now. once you hit 48 youll want hive
and dng just feels awful to use. on dummy i can maintain 100% uptime with just drain/hive on honey
with yeti i need tumble to fill in some gaps but can still basically get 100%
dusty yarrow
and dng just feels awful to use. on dummy i can maintain 100% uptime with just d...
The numbers don't add up for that.
solemn oar
30 gm hornet extends 0.5s per crit
dusty yarrow
yep
solemn oar
i also have lower ping than you 
dusty yarrow
Ping doesn't matter much in this build.
CD is fixed
Ping is more for instant skills.
like beam vs ice rain
solemn oar
whats your hornets/s on avg?
dusty yarrow
We can test this in a fairer way
1min of lmb
Since I don't have leg, I depend on critical hits.
When you have time, we can test this.
solemn oar
yeah i have leg hornet so im getting a lot more
like queen bee gives the guaranteed crit as well, so im getting way more consistent extensions on honey
did a few dummies just now, i get like 2-4s downtime depending on some crit rng
so youre right in that its not true 100%
my original point is basically just that hive is still crazy strong to use, you just need a few more things to properly benefit from it
dusty yarrow
This queen bee deals the same damage, but with a guaranteed critical hit, right?
solemn oar
its also guaranteed insta cast
the crit is nice cause it procs the crit for your next hornet to always be insta
(it bugs out sometimes i found when i was running 48/18 before i got my leg hornet)
slow jasper
yeah, it does bug sometimes when u stand too far like the next hornet cast is about to happen but the previous cast still on the fly so the game struggles calculating whether the next hornet should be instant or not
solemn oar
should just be melee distance anyway
drop hive swarm on melees, be in range to hit counters and make it easier to sit in cat q or tumble into aoes for honey
drain is 5m too 
slow jasper
solemn oar
smn was never made to be a ranged class
picking up icicles in yeti is a dps loss for us ๐
dusty yarrow
It's sad to have to give up so many things to get 48/18 gm
using only purple skills
solemn oar
it is yeah, but imo until you get leg
48/18 is bis
its harder to play though
like youll want to drop your dng/drain/hive
a fun thing is you get to have default pink petals ๐ฎ
focus becomes a major issue, but the dps gain from the 18gm going from 30 + qb is worth it
you need to hit every counter, and youll probably want to swap back to cat curl instead of tumble
dusty yarrow
I've always had Tumble, but I've never used it.
After I started using it on the Yeti, I'm unlikely to remove it from the build now.
solemn oar
tumble is crazy strong because of the honey and its iframe is op, but you can really only use it if you have other sources of focus regen
its really nice on yeti
altar too
dusty yarrow
I'm thinking of removing the pin and the cure to put in 48gm, but when pug there's always one that misses and forces you to use the cure
solemn oar
i tried playing with it, but purple cat pin for self focus regen on 48/18 felt really good
i ended up just doing what i said above, and had to suffer a bit. an extra focus mantra helps too
besties is too good to get rid of
itd be cool if everyone could just play perfect always and we didnt need it
dusty yarrow
Since I stopped playing for a few months and only recently came back, it's best to stick to support and leave the damage to the others.
proud field
Since I stopped playing for a few months and only recently came back, it's best ...
And then you'll always have to wait for players.
solemn oar
yeah. if you wanted to go even harder on the support side, you could push for 30 hammer
there are a lot of blips where shred drops
20s uptime ends up being a pretty nice boost over the standard
dusty yarrow
It's best to stick with 30/18 until get the leg
dusty yarrow
Who knows, maybe in the future we'll have to use 48/48 with that critical buff.
solemn oar
i mean we didnt need 48 hammer at all before the new buff
we will now for sure though
i was sitting happy with my 2 leg hammers 
now i need another
dusty yarrow
i think im the most geared hornet on NA(?)
I don't remember anyone with more
solemn oar
chom got a leg hornet the other day. shes the only other person i know that even has a leg hornet at all
need the hornet buffs 
dusty yarrow
Oh, and passing on the feedback...
rose chain is op for aoe setup
solemn oar
i wanted to try using it for msp
but i was lazy and never bothered
i just kill my chunks 1 at a time
dusty yarrow
I tested it today along with Petal on the PvP map
I didn't expect the result
it's very good
solemn oar
honestly thatd be good
queen bee really could use a buff
give it aoe. some extra damage, and make it 0 focus
dusty yarrow
0 focus its a dream
lament skiff
bombard hornet
dusty yarrow
like that
lament skiff
Does hornet even have aoe
dusty yarrow
I really wanted to see the results of today's buffs, it's a shame the " i " doesn't do live streams anymore.
dusty yarrow
Sadly, every Tuesday when there were changes I would go see her
lament skiff
wait why is that sad
slow jasper
yeah, she was suffered in somekind of disease that in result of bloodloss
digital depot
What would be rotation / books needed for hornet 
slow jasper
RB/LB spam
poison 5 stacks then let the cat bonk
use honey buff skills when you are out of honey like drain, dng and hive swarm
slow jasper
slow jasper
we do what we must
๐ญ
In the upcoming patch like KR just now, it buffed the hornet AP scaling a lot
hornet players might have a bright future
slow jasper
Wish I have leg hornet tho
slow jasper
im assumin def down hammer & poison rosethorn
yeah, basically just like that. If you use honey buff then you can use drain/doom and gloom and hive swarm take turn to keep the honey buff always on
LB + RB spamming, when target has 5 poison stacks then have the cat bonk
honey buff is really poping off with some recently sum buff patches
dusty yarrow
poison 5 stacks then let the cat bonk
slow jasper
๐ญ
sterile cloud
Why so many sums running tumble roll all of a sudden?
slow jasper
Why so many sums running tumble roll all of a sudden?
Yeti and queen lair
they have many red aoes
sterile cloud
ahhh makes sense
slow jasper
especially queen lair boss constantly makes the 270 pizza aoe and inside/outside aoe
snow valley
I'm trying DnB for now, need that focus recovery on Q.
digital depot
why do i feel so slow as hornet player
digital depot
im puttin out like half of what i did in comparison to sf
slow jasper
im puttin out like half of what i did in comparison to sf
that's the hornet build, inclined towards as a support build
I mean recently, the output damage isnt that bad compares to couple of months before
digital depot
solemn oar
Were you running defence hammer on sf before @digital depot
digital depot
For a bit yes
solemn oar
well think about it this way. When I ran 18gm hammer on hornets I would add anywhere from 10-22k~ dps to each of the people that are in party (variance isbased on their gear ofc). I do around 85-90k dps on yeti, so if we add just say 15k per other person in that yeti im effectively doing about 160k+ dps in that party.
30 gm hammer makes that amount go up another chunk due to the extra uptime
even if youre doing like 40k dps in a yeti as hornet, your hammer and easy access to it will likely be more than youll be doing as sunflower- unless youre a giga whale and buy 3 leg hammers and have some leg sunflower to make up for some lost gm by slotting in said hammers
thats my gear for doing 85-90k+ yeti dps as reference as well
proud field
You'd probably do on Yeti 120-130k dps on sunflower with those stats. ( just by having sunflowers instead of hornets)
solemn oar
well i certainly wouldnt be able to afford 2 leg sf + 2 hammers
proud field
Just 1 leg sf, rest purple, you'd do that dmg.
solemn oar
probably yeah. but if i do 1 leg sf and no hammers than im doing less dps than i would be on hornets. if i drop 4 books to spec 18gm hammer, than i lose a bunch of personal dps, and i'm lucky if i'm breaking 100-110k + i'm not even getting 30 gm for 20s uptime with that. hornet is way more economical with how gatekeepy sunflower books are
not everyone can casually drop 1k on the game
and hornet buffs with class balance update are insane
and all the dps ranges were talking are napkin math anyway
proud field
Well, I did not say you would have to drop hammers.
You'd do that dps and more cause you'd also hammer.
I understand being on Hornet from the beginning is just easier and is not going to cost (now) that much.
solemn oar
current na price of a leg sunflower
proud field
However, I started as Sunflower from day 1, and even though I used the 1x purple hammer once in Moonwater, I transitioned into just dps sunflower cause it was a hassle to dps and hammer seeing how sunflower/hammer is.
proud field
current na price of a leg sunflower
That's just someone trying to make like 400 bucks. No need to buy it.
Get a "cheap" leg skill, and reroll it slowly till you get your desired skill.
(assuming you take into account the fragments you might or might not get)
dusty yarrow
thats my gear for doing 85-90k+ yeti dps as reference as well
baby dolphin
solemn oar
leg sunflower is consistently 40-50k in na
i rerolled plenty to get my current leg books
purple sunflowers are also 3k each in na still.
proud field
leg sunflower is consistently 40-50k in na
Probably just 1 skill, getting pushed in F5, cause no one wants to buy it. (at that price it's just not fisable)
proud field
purple sunflowers are also 3k each in na still.
That would have been ok a month ago, now it feels overpriced since we have "access" to leg skills.
proud field
welcome to the na market
That's pretty much the same on EU.
solemn oar
whats trash leg books selling for on eu?
proud field
whats trash leg books selling for on eu?
Lowest I see right now.
Like a weeks ago, they were even 15k.
dusty yarrow
15??? lol
proud field
They just test the waters, if it bites it bites.
solemn oar
i wish we could get 15k trash leg
19k is the realistic lowest i see in NA
sure theres been a few lower here and there
proud field
Close to 200 bucks is not realistic at all. ๐
solemn oar
well thats what im saying, hornet costs hundreds less to build, and is still just as effective if not more unless youre paying an exceptionally high amount of money
proud field
well thats what im saying, hornet costs hundreds less to build, and is still jus...
You'd have to invest more into Hornet, to catch to sunflower in dps.
(I'm not saying it's not ok to just be "support", but then you have to always ask for help)
And yes, as soon as we enter the realm of legendaries then the meta changes and there is more flexibility somewhat.
solemn oar
the personal dps of a sunflower that isnt running hammer isn't even relevant tbh
hammer dps is doing practically equivalent to my actual personal dps
summoners who run pure sf are honestly just being lazy and sandbagging party
proud field
summoners who run pure sf are honestly just being lazy and sandbagging party
Agree to disagree.
If it would be up to me, I'd play 1x leg sunflower + rest purple, with 3 leg hammers, 1 lb poison, 1 besties, 1 overflow, 1 drain, 1 hive. ( of course things can change if you'd go 30 stacks on besties leg or 48)
elder wyvern
Rumblebee op. Party dps insane
5 bleed, 5 poison, 40% hammer 100% uptime. ๐
If sunflower or hornet cant do proper defense reduction, it is not meaingful to put more hammer. Once 48 gs easy though. There are so many sums who cant even do 50% def reduction uptime. I would recommend to put more dps for those players ๐
proud field
As awesome as you may think rumblebees is, you rely on your cat for DPS. Once she gets cc'd, or pushed in China, no damuge for you. And let's not forget the higher chance of not having defense on it so it's a higher risk of dying. (Unless cheer up will keep her alive every time)
It's probably good in certain situations, but do we all have sets with leg skills laying around to swap for the best case scenario?
dusty yarrow
for a party, the Hornet is very easy to maintain 50% hammer and has a heal if needed.
Not to mention that it's the cheapest skill.
Depending on the group's composition, the bee's bleed is very welcome.
But the biggest problem is the price of the skills and the need for 2 legs for the build to "work"
But if it existed and had that problem, I would prefer to play with bee
by playstyle
dusty yarrow
But the biggest problem is the price of the skills and the need for 2 legs for t...
Not to mention the "cheer up!" 48gm, which greatly benefits the cat.
@elder wyvern Do you have any video or clip of Ganzi farming Lunar or PVP maps? I'm very curious to see the AoE of this build.
elder wyvern
Since we spam altar, no need to farm lunar
elder wyvern
Nah, keep on selling belts
solemn oar
have we gotten any confirmation on the 5% crit being self or party yet?
for the upcoming changes
dusty yarrow
have we gotten any confirmation on the 5% crit being self or party yet?
nothing yet
gusty kiln
I didn't use hammer as a sunflower until I had x3 leggy. Miss me with that 5 stack. When you only need 1 poison that's when it's easy mode
solemn oar
yeah 48 hammer makes it super easy for sf
il be interested to see what sf smns do if the 5% is actually party wide- as it will need 5 poison stacks
gusty kiln
It sucks that our only leggy poison book shares the same button as our hammer. Why leggy vine whip, why can't we have leggy DnR or Prickly instead
solemn oar
i hope we get some more leg skills soon. i wanna see leg lmb and heat ray
gusty kiln
Make leggy lmb have all the effects of the 3 purples! Photo, poison, focus on crit, aoe
solemn oar
itd be cool if it was just 1 full combo lmb, but realistically what theyd probably do is just add more damage and make it so butterfly swarm doesnt need to crit for the focus, just have it be 100%
and just have that x3
:/
solemn oar
tbh giving lmb bleed would be pretty dope
removes some usefulness from rumble though
we really just need a few more classes with bleed though
dusty yarrow
tbh giving lmb bleed would be pretty dope
lmb bleed is op
solemn oar
and not have the few that can do it, gimp themslves by running it
slow jasper
<@143175986316443648> Do you have any video or clip of Ganzi farming Lunar or PV...
need the pvp clip as well
gusty kiln
Screw it leggy scratch. Applies 5 bleed stacks that continuously refresh for 30 seconds
slow jasper
i dont think this build can pvp.and somehow a little bit defendless
solemn oar
at the bare minimum we should get purple skills of everything. wheres purple hive swarm, and purple overflow shroud
slow jasper
only aoe pve
When the game make the players do their farming in somekind of map that enable pvp mode. I will think of using hornet or sunflower
gusty kiln
rumble doesn't seem that bad in pvp? It goes right through the spinny spins and keeps people in combat for ages. Can run projectile shield and purple stealth too
elder wyvern
5 stack bleed is insane
outer hamlet
with dual dragon buff there will be more ppl who bleed
slow jasper
WL can also do a full time bleed on the target
elder wyvern
Yeah good
solemn oar
I thought wl bleed wasnt 5 stacks 100%?
lament skiff
anyone need a yellow def down hammer > _ >
lament skiff
The patch notes insist hammer is supposed to refresh poison lol
lament skiff
one of the new hammer effects is broken
dusty yarrow
slow jasper
solemn oar
WTB Leg hornet NA ๐
solemn oar
Il never play sf in neo
Unless they release changes to sf making it play similar to how it did in live around the vt era with thornstrike spam
dusty yarrow
All 3 of us
If I tell you, you won't believe me.
solemn oar
Off hand i think i can count 4 hornet smns in na
solemn oar
You me chom and theres one named bonkbonkbonk i believe
dusty yarrow
One of them was Chom
solemn oar
After the buffs hornets gonna go crazy
dusty yarrow
He was using the cat taunt to skip the throw
solemn oar
Yeah taunt for yeti grab is neat tech, but id rather just be using tumble
dusty yarrow
me too
solemn oar
Its probably the bis thing to run right now though
Im just greedy
Tanks lose a lot of dps getting grabbed
Its def worth overall
dusty yarrow
This would be useful for speedrunning, but since that's not available in this game, it doesn't matter.
dusty yarrow
maybeee if u have all leg skills and some slot open
solemn oar
Well a grab is like 10ish seconds of downtime on your highest dps person
Idr how many grabs you have in a pull but it ends up being a lot of downtime on dps
solemn oar
Yea. Regardless im not speccing taunt
Tumble is too fun and looks too goofy to not use
dusty yarrow
Tumble is too fun and looks too goofy to not use
especially if you don't have HMB in the group
solemn oar
I honestly cant even remember the last time i did a yeti without hmb
But yeah no hmb would be awful
slow jasper
solemn oar
I so rarely play with fms
slow jasper
when rumblebee
solemn oar
I dont like sheathe though. Time spent frozen is time spent not shootin hornets
Even sheathe for 1 hit, will prob still be -1 hornet
dusty yarrow
The big problem is remembering to use stealth, depending on the group's composition
solemn oar
I run with a very static setup of how our iframes are used, so im like hyper conditioned to use the exact same iframe every single time
Im used to the exact aoes in which i can tumble for now for optimal honey
dusty yarrow
In that case, you can even watch something on the other monitor
gusty kiln
Unless they release changes to sf making it play similar to how it did in live a...
Yeah we need this badly. That autumn wind effect was so good
lament skiff
WTS on EU:
Legendary Def Down Hammer, current offer: 20k- Legendary Hornet, no offers
slow jasper
slow jasper
But why are they so close in price lol
oh yeah
discord struggled on saving the image into the clipboard somehow
slow jasper
might be some whale was quitting
dusty yarrow
@elder wyvern why use venomous rose instead of photosyntesis rose on ganzi?
since it would make the overflow easier
and she doesn't need poison, because of bee
elder wyvern
Doesnt matter any. Just dmg
zero benefit of neither poison/photo.
Why do we need overflow?
outer hamlet
focus regen 1/s
elder wyvern
oh is it?
Maybe we can try XD
what is the trigger skills for overflow? only counter i guess
Just do your best decision and build ๐
spam LMB anyway so ๐
dusty yarrow
what is the trigger skills for overflow? only counter i guess
yep
veno rose is 1 stack of photo if crit
elder wyvern
Wow
elder wyvern
Yeah depends on gear
dusty yarrow
Today there is little difference in damage between the two
but after kr patch, will be the same.
crisp pike
selling NA
bleak wadi
He was using the cat taunt to skip the throw
jaja i only spec cat taunt when 1) my tank wants it or 2) i have 1-2 other summoners in the party
paper cave
how much is this worth ?
zinc vault
it's not sf so probably the same as any trash book
paper cave
lol really!! think that was the best healing skill on the game
also if i equip that skill my SF wont change ?
proud field
also if i equip that skill my SF wont change ?
You're talking about Supreme Force?
paper cave
ya
proud field
The above comment was about Sunflower.
paper cave
The above comment was about Sunflower.
ah isee thx i think it was bout my besties lol
proud field
also if i equip that skill my SF wont change ?
And yes, you will gain supreme force with newer and better skills equipped.
paper cave
what would u do ? sell that besties for some purple sunflowers or keep it ?
idk how much will increase the sf
proud field
what would u do ? sell that besties for some purple sunflowers or keep it ?
I would keep it, but it also matters where you are with your sunflower/hornet/rumblebees stacks.
You could salvage it, get 4/5 frags, reroll it hope for a main skill.
(if you get 3 frags, you'd need 1 more to reroll it)
proud field
idk how much will increase the sf
I don't know, not by much. My guess is like 100 max. You could test it, but when you take it off the item it will cost you 20 gold.
lament skiff
#BestiesGang
outer hamlet
you goin true timestream for the focus regen ?
gusty kiln
Thatโs the last thing I would go for. Whales will need time stones for their soul core soon enough, wb prices gonna stay high for awhile
For the cost of making a true time from scratch you could get like 10 leggy flowers
outer hamlet
vine looks like a worst version of speed hammer 2 focus insead of 1 dont reset on non crit and 0.8gcd instead of 0.7 no def down ...
honestly think you are better runing 3 more SF
tawdry orbit
How many people play on the server approximately?
I haven't been here for a long time, I wonder how my cats are doing ๐
proud field
Plenty where you'd have players almost every hour of the day.
dusty yarrow
ofc they will use yellow book to record
They released Skill Awakened today
So they weren't going to use purple skill to record a video, right?
dusty yarrow
They released Skill Awakened today
*only for bm
slow jasper
yup, only BM
lament skiff
Those videos arent loading for me
dusty yarrow
Those videos arent loading for me
normal here
lament skiff
Oh i can see them, its just slow
dusty yarrow
ncsoft kr server ZzZz..
lament skiff
buffering? in the year 2025th of our lord
slow jasper
๐ญ
slow jasper
"LuisinhO" EU
show f3
crisp stag
show f3
Search LuisinhO in game. Btw almost sold everything
got 1 leg hammer if someone wants it
slow jasper
Search LuisinhO in game. Btw almost sold everything
๐ฅ I cant. I play TW. I just want to see your f3 before another Hong Sokyun's pupil go to dust
crisp stag
WTS EU PMO
dusty yarrow
slow jasper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcx5x4Ai-W8
even highend sum struggles with focus
silverfrost badge sucks as h
lament skiff
Too many hammers going off, I can't tell what's going on
dusty yarrow
Too many hammers going off, I can't tell what's going on
2 using speed increase and 1 def red
lament skiff
The pov is from def hammer I think since its got the 8s cd
dusty yarrow
yep
lament skiff
I see veno thorn so I doubt the 48gm saves a book
slow jasper
2 using speed increase and 1 def red
If the speed hammer is the only sum in the party
will they still pin ?
dusty yarrow
If the speed hammer is the only sum in the party
If you have 3 cats, 2 need to bonk all the time and 1 only every 20 seconds, which cat pin?
slow jasper
๐ญ that's no brainer case
assume that if the speed hammer is the only sum
Cuz many of other classes may think and even blaming for not pinning just by playing speed hammer
solemn oar
with the massive buffs to rumble, hammer dps wont be as relevant. so doing a pin as a rumble smn wont be as much of a loss as it is for us rn
but it is stil an annoying dps loss regardless.
slow jasper
yup, loosing 50% of.dps just for your team can breath and free spam with no focus drop worry
The recent KR patch also buff speed hammer if I remember corrently
speed hammer deal 3.5xAP on designated target instead of 0.5xAP
huge
hornet go to bin now
solemn oar
hornets getting insane buffs too though
Badge:
Hornet: 85% -> 250%
Rose: 85% -> 250%
Base:
base hornet: 7.6x -> 10.95x
Honey: 1.2x -> 3.3x
rosethorn effects rumble too though ofc
slow jasper
interesting
solemn oar
if anything it feels like sunflower is whats getting shafted
SF
badge: 110% -> 170% (no real benefit from the huge rosethorn buff)
Base ratios:
SF: 6.15x -> 7x
SSF: 7.4x -> 7.7x
slow jasper
It already strong so fair
outer hamlet
anybody with def hammer blue/prpl/leg18/30/48 and smothering paw can tell me if it eats the 5poison stack after the pin ?
(it dont on leg12)
zinc vault
if you have 4 or more posion stacks on the boss 48 stacks hammer removes them all
lament skiff
I have noticed that sometimes smothering's poison stacks don't get consumed
lament skiff
It's usually someone else pinning and I was hammering
I will assume it's a "feature"
paper cave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcx5x4Ai-W8
Naryu Sanctum ? ]
proud field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcx5x4Ai-W8
Why is the summoner, "clicking" right click and not keeping it down?
dusty yarrow
Why is the summoner, "clicking" right click and not keeping it down?
macro
cat have a bug sometimes
proud field
But you can make a macro that keeps the button down, like you would do a mouse click.
proud field
The only reason I see the right click being actually clicked like that is cause you have to left click also to apply poison.
Having right button down makes it difficult lrft mouse clicking.
Other than it makes no difference just more keyboard input.
proud field
and some skills are not executed
Do you somehow have the skill tree of that summoner?
dusty yarrow
Other than it makes no difference just more keyboard input.
That's what they told me
use a macro or release the right mouse button
dusty yarrow
Do you somehow have the skill tree of that summoner?
nope
but is only 3 hammer leg, besties, prickly, rose poison and rest sf
there's not much of a secret
proud field
So q is out, 4 is out, 3 is out.
proud field
So defense and extra focus on cat will no longer be needed then.
dusty yarrow
So defense and extra focus on cat will no longer be needed then.
We don't use that anymore these days
u can skip or use roll
proud field
Having q will make the cat not die.
outer hamlet
kr summ no longer use honey and focus recovery pin
but rosethorn+ pirkly is troll imo
some took out besties too
proud field
I thought these are BiS.
At least I'd also strive for that.
I'd sacrifice perhaps a sunflower for 1 more Besties to have 48 instead of 30.
zinc vault
I'd sacrifice perhaps a sunflower for 1 more Besties to have 48 instead of 30.
even 30 is overkill and gonna drop 1 in raids for other skills
it's only for msp farming
proud field
well you dont need honey if you have wb weapon focus regen
Wb weapon is not something everybody will get and it's expensive to upgrade let alone buy. I see Besties as more of a benefit for the party and yourself in tough situations. 48 stacks are something that makes you not die at all.
proud field
i mean at that point it's a skill issue
For who?
zinc vault
for anyone who needs that to stay alive ๐
proud field
It wouldn't be a need, just an extra "iframe".
zinc vault
there is barely any situation where you need an extra iframe tho
i've seen people using that in naga but i think that's trolling too
also we're talking about a 16k gem skill for convenience here
proud field
also we're talking about a 16k gem skill for convenience here
Oh don't get me wrong, the build is not meant to be bought like that. Priority is of course one by one.
I just meant it as a BiS, for me, and what I'd use it for.
slow jasper
hmm, no team pass 3rd boss still?
dusty yarrow
Not that I saw
solemn oar
They defintely want bt to be some longterm progression content
Kinda crazy that b3 is still not downed yet though
snow valley
Kinda crazy that b3 is still not downed yet though
Well, it seems players "arenโt meant to clear new dungeons immediately". ๐คทโโ๏ธ
#๐ฌ๏ธฑneo-chat message
solemn oar
Its certainly an interesting approach to game design, il say that at least.
outer hamlet
looks like he swaped in pirkly but yeh true temestream focus regen is cheating, no need for anything
zinc vault
probably only did that for the extra dmg in order to kill the miniboss
i wonder if they'll be able to kill 3rd boss in may or something
they were stuck for so long in corridors there is no way they're anywhere close to having enough dps for boss3
zinc vault
even with boss mechs it shouldn't be close tho
lament skiff
Well, it seems players "arenโt meant to clear new dungeons immediately". ๐คทโโ๏ธ
...
Geez, what's the point of creating content nobody uses? Literally burning money
lament skiff
What's going on
dusty yarrow
as skills aoe appearing behind the target
I logged back in and it went back to normal, I'll test it again
If this continues, I will open a ticket.
dusty yarrow
briar and petal
slow jasper
๐ฅ
wait, just curious but
how does rumblebee build pass Naksun? Like wont he beat the shiet out of the cat?
dusty yarrow
how does rumblebee build pass Naksun? Like wont he beat the shiet out of the cat...
slow jasper
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1LMJaUGKVyo
๐ฅ this is so whale, Im curious about the unwhale rumblebee
solemn oar
Non whale rumble doesnt exist sadly
You really need a handful of leg books for it to actually be good dps
slow jasper
You really need a handful of leg books for it to actually be good dps
I see some still play 48 hammers with no leggy
gotta ask them maybe
proud field
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1LMJaUGKVyo
So the cat is not cc'able at all. That sounds normal.
slow jasper
it still can be punched to death
proud field
If she can not be cc'd, she won't die since Cheer Up will keep her alive.
merry prairie
WTS everything on me "Tatze" ( eu )
merry prairie
happens
had a good time
slow jasper
ya got new game? or bored?
merry prairie
bored + drama so waiting for aion 2
merry prairie
but its fine i had my fun๐ only sad that i miss f20
slow jasper
f20 ?
merry prairie
this dude
slow jasper
oh Yunsang
merry prairie
yep๐
solemn oar
I see some still play 48 hammers with no leggy
I mean the only true requirement is 30 gm speed hammer for cat protection. You can play it without whaling, doesnt mean itl be any good though 
slow jasper
I mean the only true requirement is 30 gm speed hammer for cat protection. You c...
๐ญ it's terrible, said the bonking sum in TW
Most just go junghado instead
without leg cheerup, Naksun gotta beat the cat to ded
merry prairie
if any summoner on eu needs it good luck
slow jasper
if any summoner on eu needs it good luck <:zwergGIGGLE:1445946561610911784>
ship them to TW quick
I will
๐ญ
merry prairie
lament skiff
I was about to complain about this
Has anyone seen if they fixed the 5% crit chance thing yet
slow jasper
I was about to complain about this
where is this come from? current patch note or upcoming?
outer hamlet
What does the second one means ?
I cant find a kr summoner who stream more than once every 2 weeks
lament skiff
Oh that was just part of the crop. I havenโt noticed anything about the tooltips
rigid delta
I was about to complain about this
This was super annoying for pvp
Same with your cat standing out of Q when you true friend
dusty yarrow
@torn tundra
slow jasper
๐ค
solemn oar
๐ค
torn tundra
WTB > NA
snow valley
https://youtu.be/Jl3SebeJ5nM
I was doing yeti with sum that did stealth on small aoe slams, it wasn't fun. ๐ซ
slow jasper
slow jasper
I was doing yeti with sum that did stealth on small aoe slams, it wasn't fun. ๐ซ
which one? can ya tell me that small aoe in the video?
snow valley
which one? can ya tell me that small aoe in the video?
In example - 3:00 is small slam, (you can just ss out of this, cooldown will expire before next small slam). 3:14 is big slam, even if you stealth every big slam, you will be good with cd.
Ofc it only works in perfect run where tank shares heat with party, every icicle was picked, and you have bd/bm (and they don't freeze).
Otherwise:
slow jasper
Ofc it only works in perfect run where tank shares heat with party, every icicle...
Is there a convention in this where the tanker was a range class or melee? Does people have to run toward tank to get the heat or the tank go around people and share altogether?
proud field
Ofc it only works in perfect run where tank shares heat with party, every icicle...
Tank doesn't have to share anything. You as a sum can ss back when he gets thrown get the heat then come back to the boss and get 3 stacks. However the heat alone will let you stealth so the party will be Gucci.
proud field
Is there a convention in this where the tanker was a range class or melee? Does ...
A tank on Yeti just has to go back to the boss when he/she gets thrown.
So that the boss jumps on the tank in the same position not further away from middle.
slow jasper
A tank on Yeti just has to go back to the boss when he/she gets thrown.
Let say if the one get grabbed is a range tank and doesnt have dash to dash back to the old position
proud field
Just run forward.
As a sum you press 1, switch places with the cat. As a BM you dash forward, bd the same, FM moves forward with that iframe dash. Sin teleports directly at the boss and so on.
Maybe I'll make a little gameplay video if there's non on what to do as a summoner in Yeti. (Or at least what I'm doing that works for me)
solemn oar
As a sum you press 1, switch places with the cat. As a BM you dash forward, bd t...
Ya basically this. Its actually a very easy tank on smn cause of tag team.
People should still be going to hug tank for fire buff though.
proud field
They should hug the boss, cause regardless where the tank is, the boss will follow the tank.
I mentioned ssing towards the tank when he gets thrown after the grab, cause as a sum you can protect the party. Otherwise you risk getting no heat and being frozen.
Doesn't matter to much cause the hits won't hurt if you're around 250k hp.
Even 200k hp is enough to survive if you are getting damaged from 100%.
slow jasper
As a sum you press 1, switch places with the cat. As a BM you dash forward, bd t...
how about WL
proud field
how about WL
I believe WL has way more mobility than a summoner. But if after the throw, the WL has nothing, you can turn the character, be towards the boss and SS into the boss.
Keep in mind that the boss will still jump on the WL.
Depending where you are in the mechanic, you want to get out of the purple pool, or cc the boss and pin with a sum.
And if you have no iframes, as a WL you can use the thrall to reset your cooldowns.
zinc vault
Warlocks have their thrall swap dont they?
proud field
Not sure if they can swap without the WL being cc'd, like we can as a Sum.
paper cave
WTB Purple [Sunflower] NA DM
rigid delta
at least it was on live
you need to spec it on neo
on live summoners cat swap can be spec'd like thrall swap
vernal sky
We can swap with thrall after the throw, but thatโs assuming thrall is up. Unlike cats, thrall is just sb fodder so not always up
Mobility is the same, but Thrall E gives movement spd for abit. Nobody runs TD so not true, we donโt rly get cd reduction on iframes outside of purple book C. 45s on bubble skill without book for 1 hit and ss.
The swap is a default skill. No need to spec
dusty yarrow
We can swap with thrall after the throw, but thatโs assuming thrall is up. Unlik...
thrall?
proud field
Mobility is the same, but Thrall E gives movement spd for abit. Nobody runs TD s...
It's not cd reductions, it's a reset of cd's that a WL can have which is amazing. We that play sum do not have that. 
outer hamlet
WL dont have it either cuz it's bad like cut your dps by a third bad
if a WL is tanking just ss on them after the pull+throw or better be at the lending spot because it's only important to get heat from the tank at 90% and you can im-frame this prpl aoe/pull
for 75 and other phase you can just avoid prpl jump and walk back underneath the boss to get heat
meanwhile the tanking WL can just tab and ss the prpl aoe
vernal sky
Yea we donโt run time distortion over SB, which is the reset u are talking about
We have another skill that can reduce CD a little on resettable skills but itโs not rly core to build. If running full leggys prob never used
proud field
Well if it's bad in PvE it's surely great in PvP. ( I think that's where my thoughts went to, the pvp aspect of the CD reset )
slow jasper
elder wyvern
Hmm need 1 SUM for my raid ๐
slow jasper
slow jasper
Hmm need 1 SUM for my raid ๐
holy
whales gather = strong
I thought you counted yourself as a sum, why need more
1 ultra BM 1 Sum 10 Wtd/execute
dusty yarrow
260 cr uwu
slow jasper
gentle moat
do you really trust the patch notes tho
lament skiff
Upgrades to every class they said
Oh the new portrait stuff means recollecting everything!
shut scarab
At least they took less time to "buff" wind summ than live version lol
lament skiff
Well the good news is that def hammer is unchanged
The bad news is the tooltip is wrong
slow jasper
slow jasper
None of the class buffs were put in the game
copy paste moments
solemn oar
WTB Leg hornet NA
slow jasper
WTB Leg hornet NA <a:beeBlob:942715724194009159>
ya go to SF?
solemn oar
I'll never play sunflower 
Id reroll to rumble or wait for a rr voucher to another class before going sunflower
proud field
That rr voucher will change your summoner also, not just the skills, and you'll have to do it twice.
solemn oar
Hornet ,rumble or new spear class are the only things il consider
torn tundra
WTB > PM ME
slow jasper
maiden flint
do i want to hate myself?
spamming cat for poison and hammer
maybe can take out dng and use venomous for refresh
maiden flint
also what does hammer do in kr now, poison stack base effect?
lament skiff
We'll find out in January ๐
slow jasper
long last bug, who know what does it do now
slow jasper
do i want to hate myself?
you still use dng? Is it still bug that when you use F to pick the stuff and it automatically use?
maiden flint
yeah i hate it
but was going for the honey dmg on hornet
i'll never know, cuz just swapped books, the kr hornet buff seems big
my 48gm purple hornet was doing like 72k dummy, expect it to be 96-100k after buff
40gm leggy flower doing like 110k, and should get +20% on same patch
bees
slow jasper
slow jasper
any currently still playing rumblebee? mind make a quick video on the rotation on dummy in today patch?
proud field
Why would you want to play rumblebees? It has less DPS, hornet is better than it and sunflower is much better than both. You'd cripple your gameplay.
lament skiff
I think someone rocks sunflower and speed hammer in eu
slow jasper
Why would you want to play rumblebees? It has less DPS, hornet is better than it...
nah, it's my friend who is playing it
proud field
I think someone rocks sunflower and speed hammer in eu
They do, and somehow it's BiS.
slow jasper
altho with 48gm rumblebee, he seems to only can recast it when crit hit at maximum 1 recast only
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QbpMluLLBS0
but in this video she can instant cast many time as long as the previous cast is crit. My friend only maximum 1 then back to the 9s CD
proud field
Unless proven otherwise.
proud field
altho with 48gm rumblebee, he seems to only can recast it when crit hit at maxim...
Maybe I'm inexperienced when it comes to rumblebees, I just don't see it doing DMG even if you're using speed hammers.
The only way to make a good comparison is to have a proper build with leg skills but even then I'm afraid Hornet and then Sunflower will come on top of Rumblebees.
solemn oar
Rumble will still always have bleed over other specs
If there is no other in party, rumble is bis because of how high hp regen is in neo
And its not even a question
proud field
As to why a leg comparison has to be made. As it stands, as a summoner player I don't see the Appeal.
zinc vault
I think someone rocks sunflower and speed hammer in eu
it's corona but i wouldnt call that playable anywhere else other than wb where focus isnt an issue
i'm pretty sure you must have the wb weapon focus regen + at least 13% crit-rate from portrait sets + high crit stats to call it a functioning build for any boss over lvl 70
proud field
it's corona but i wouldnt call that playable anywhere else other than wb where f...
The way I see it, it's playable everywhere. But I can't confirm it outside of Yeti, yet.
Because if the way I am now, dps is not an issue, I can only imagine the cat bonking speedy gonzales, which adds fuel to the fire.
zinc vault
most people have a 35-45% crit-rate on higher lvl bosses which means you run out of focus using only sunflower now add the extra focus cost on top of it and it turns into misery
proud field
Hm .. not saying you're not right. Maybe that is difficult without a WB wep.
zinc vault
i mean it's "playable" in that regard that if you dont mind spamming lmb it's "fine"
proud field
i mean it's "playable" in that regard that if you dont mind spamming lmb it's "f...
Ew no.
outer hamlet
altho with 48gm rumblebee, he seems to only can recast it when crit hit at maxim...
its the bee GM48 that reduce cd by 1s on hammer hit
slow jasper
its the bee GM48 that reduce cd by 1s on hammer hit
I know, but in the video. She instant casts like a lot
pay attention to her RB button
But for my friend, he can only perform one and just only one extra instant cast
outer hamlet
yeh that's wierd
she got a lot of instant cast
as is if the dot crit you get a free cast
but she dont send a lot of 'first' bee as u can see with the 0.5s cast is not often there
slow jasper
as is if the dot crit you get a free cast
I was thinking the same thing like as long as you can have the rumblebee on-hit crit, you can instantly recast again. But yeah currently it's not
outer hamlet
i got a legi bound hammer and bee with the hajong ๐ might ba able to test it if i get an other bound bee on my last try
slow jasper
cool, cat can go to work finally
Is it funny that maybe im the only one thinking this could be a nerf but we didnt know because no one was playing it since the patch like right after the summoner's gm effect release patch in KR
lament skiff
There's no way to know given how unreliable the documentation is
outer hamlet
i see 5 cast and hear 18 bee beeing thrown
slow jasper
There's no way to know given how unreliable the documentation is
yeah let just dont write anything NCS has changed ingame in the upcoming patch note and write those that hasnt included
slow jasper
i see 5 cast and hear 18 bee beeing thrown
my friend's bee spamming rhythm is a lot like this
only one extra instant cast then go to CD
outer hamlet
this looks more like what text says
outer hamlet
the sound of bee is diferent betwin the 2 vids tho
and the 2 uploads are 3 days apart
oh btw did any of you figured a way to get the perma def down + 5% crit buff + 5pousin stack on a sunflo build ?
i am thinking pirkly +lmb but pirkly beeing 24s cd kinda f it up
slow jasper
and the 2 uploads are 3 days apart
the first clip is in 20/8 which is on Tuesday before the weekly maintenance, 23/8 is Saturday
๐ญ
slow jasper
oh btw did any of you figured a way to get the perma def down + 5% crit buff + 5...
I would use doom and root
only 18s CD
outer hamlet
20/8 is yeti release and BD buff nothing aabout bee
sand panther
counter 4 helps with 1 cd reset
outer hamlet
I would use doom and root
nah f this skill i use it to prock the hammer gm12 right now but it share gcd with sinflo and cast is a pain
slow jasper
outer hamlet
counter to reset 1 is too unreliable
slow jasper
I think DnR is best choice for now. Still has quicker animation than Doom and gloom
outer hamlet
Dnr is
F,C(5stack+def-) -> lmb reset ->C(5%cr,def-),F(5stack) -> lmb reset
pirkly is
1,C(5stack+def-) -> lmb reset ->C(5%cr,def-) !no poison untill 1,C
slow jasper
funny that summoner is the only class doesnt have crit boost or crit damge boost
outer hamlet
and on both u still wait for poison to stack up
and still rely heavily on crit happening to have focus /cd reset
snow valley
Lunge then?
proud field
Who's using poison to dps?
Unless for hammers?
Speed hammers require no poison as far as I know. Def red does.
slow jasper
I think in the upcoming path which is already in KR by now. Speed hammer and sunflower wont be as good as rumblebee and speed hammer
beside the rumblebee big AP scaling changed like hornet
speed hammer also will do from 0.5x AP -> 3.5x AP on designated target
zinc vault
lunge is not useable all the time since you need stun (at least for bt)
proud field
I think in the upcoming path which is already in KR by now. Speed hammer and sun...
I would take sunflower/speed hammer every time over rumble/speed hammer.
proud field
lunge is not useable all the time since you need stun (at least for bt)
We might need daze for future dungeons.
solemn oar
WTB Leg hornet NA ๐
outer hamlet
12k for trash is not good in tw ?
slow jasper
12k for trash is not good in tw ?
people is greedy even with trash
proud field
I'd take that trash and add 50k dps on top of sunflowers. 
slow jasper
would work if ya spare focus tho
In KR, each speed hammer hit deals around 200k per critical hit
proud field
In EU it does 50-70k.
slow jasper
In KR, each speed hammer hit deals around 200k per critical hit
would up to 400k if it go along with rumblebee
twice the damge
proud field
Ew no.
If that's the DPS in EU too, then every summoner would want to play rumblebees.
slow jasper
If that's the DPS in EU too, then every summoner would want to play rumblebees.
it's because of latest balance patch in KR
5.0x AP default and + 5.0x AP on designated target
means while super sunflower leg is 7.7x ap
proud field
If I somehow get my hands on a awake wb wep, and the leg skills I'd like, uff the wreckage I'd do.
slow jasper
novel forum
WTB EU need 1
slow jasper
I really thought that purple LB will recover one extra focus when critical
but it's only work with this, not the default one
proud field
Have you guys noticed that without either of these, the cat will get pushed more often? (example: a 3x yellow spin, the summoner will block the third spin with his 4, but the cat while on Q, will get thrown if non of the below is used as a skill book)
So then, that 25 debuff resistance is the key for the cat not getting thrown from even yellow attacks. Scratch that, that's not it.
Nothing changes to the cat, in terms of stats if either of those skill books are used, just the way she does not get thrown if one of them is used.
lament skiff
Q kind-of sort-of gives some kind of cc resist
proud field
Q kind-of sort-of gives some kind of cc resist
A skill book from the above, or just any Q book?
lament skiff
While under Q
proud field
While under Q
No.
The cat will get thrown if attacked while on Q, no book used. (yellow attack)
lament skiff
Yes, because plain Q doesn't have resist
proud field
That's great, that's implied. Where does it mention it?
lament skiff
Vendored
slow jasper
anyone show f3 and current dummy dps?
zinc vault
of which spec?
slow jasper
of which spec?
any
101k on dummy
hoping for 150k in the upcoming balance patch
hornet AP scaling buff is crazy
zinc vault
270k on dummy
zinc vault
many people dont know this, but this mask gives you a hidden 100% dmg increase
come join the horse mask side
that practice room must be next to the class changes
lament skiff
LMAO
proud field
The patch notes said there's a new practice room in mushin
I think they meant the other guy next to Naksun.
lament skiff
O
lament skiff
<:kry:1129092724491034654> anyone show f3 and current dummy dps?
269
lament skiff
Vine whip no bueno
maiden flint
say less
slow jasper
Vine whip no bueno
any chance changing this to def down hammer in the future?
proud field
any chance changing this to def down hammer in the future?
You will, but 27 of those changing frags.
slow jasper
proud field
27 to change from bound random, to bound whatever you pick.
(same class skill of course)
lament skiff
My hammers are in another castle
proud field
I think the end result would be to have speed hammers instead of def hammers.
lament skiff
Must crit
maiden flint
must cope on whatever last line means
lament skiff
It shows up on every one so doubt its refreshing
it wont be the last time I'm bamboozled by def hammer
proud field
Well 48 stacks needs 1 stack of poison, so adding poison is possible if that is the translation. Cause then you'd not need to left click, thus having a skill slot free.
slow jasper
who knows
most buggiest skill in the whole game that takes many months to fix (still not fix I believe)
lament skiff
Nobody seems to know what it's supposed to do
I pity the developer working on it
With the most random acceptance criteria
lament skiff
Someone's bullying the horse head summoner?