Name order: 'First-last' or 'last-first'?

[weak tiger]

Hi everyone 👋
My name is 'Kim Hyungjun'.

..no, wait. It's actually 'Hyungjun Kim'.

Self-introduction can be awkward at times, especially if you're a Korean native like myself who's trying to introduce himself in English, and this is very much related to today's topic. It's the dilemma of deciding the correct "name order" for inZOI.

You may be wondering why this is even a dilemma. Here's some context: In many East Asian countries, like Korea, people traditionally use the 'last-first' name format, so I would be referred to as Kim Hyungjun. Conversely, in many other parts of the world, the 'first-last' name order is customary, making me Hyungjun Kim.

Initially, I applied the 'last-first' name order for the Korea-inspired Dowon and 'first-last' order for the America-inspired Bliss Bay. This approach seemed okay at first, but I overlooked the possibility of Americans living in the Korean Dowon and also Koreans residing in the American Bliss Bay.

To address these complexities, we've revised our approach by shifting our focus from the general preferences of each city to each specific player. This ensures that each player will see names in a format that feels most natural and familiar to them.

Therefore, the name order for every character in inZOI is determined by the player's 'language settings'. For instance, if you set your game language to 'English', the names of your created Zois and every NPC will appear in the 'first-last' order. If you set it to an East Asian language like 'Korean', the names will be switched to the 'last-first' order. Essentially, you, as the player, decide how the names will be presented to you.

What do you think of our solution?
Let me know in the comments!

[thin shell]

Hi kjun

I think it would be good if our characters could also have nicknames (within the family, a couple, a group of friends), pseudonyms (on the internet), artist names...etc.

Nicknames also linked to hierarchy in the family would be great too

[verbal shadow]

i love the idea of the first-last name changing based on language it’s a perfect solution! thank you for considering all types of players when making inzoi we really appreciate it!!

[junior nymph]

I think basing the last name first name order on language settings is a great idea. Thank you for taking into consideration the global fanbase of the game as always!

[weak oriole]

I do like the idea of it being specific to the region. Where Blissbay first-last and Dowon was last-first.
It could be that when you migrate to another city it changes. So it could showcase different culture customs when you travel or move to live in another city. When you move to another country you should assimilate to the culture.

I am ready for the topic of different cultures. Different cultures provide a more rich, complex and fun world to explore and learn.

Either way I don't mind.

[errant drum]

So if I play in English, I have no way of seeing the names in the Korean-inspired city in the order as they are usually shown in Korea? I only get this option if I change the entire game language? I think that's sad. I would have liked to have chosen how it was shown to me, and I also find the option with the city preference much better.
I think it's part of the immersion that the order of names is different depending on which part of the (fictional) world you are in.

[thin shell]

Hi Kjun, I think it would be nice if the characters had a nationality (or even a dual nationality) so that we could determine by default if the name is before the first name depending on the nationality. Then, it would be nice if the default settings could be modifiable. Thus, a player can modify the settings for a character.

I would even add that it would be nice if the Zois had a place (a city) of birth. The place of birth could be modifiable with a cheat code or in the settings for example.

[weak oriole]

Definitely, I agree!
I wanted this in one of my wishlists. I believe it was in the disasters wishlist.
https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1248403462534987946

My idea: when a disaster hits a city and it forces some ZOIS to move to another city, they can be properly identified as which city/country they came from. So when you develop a relationship with a ZOI you know their backstory(they migrated from Dowon because of a disaster crisis).

You can introduce yourself as being from a certain country/city in the game. Experience culture shock from different culture customs.

[young coyote]

I like your solution. It's actually what I was thinking of while reading your post and before reaching your proposed solution 😁
However, personally I wouldn't mind either way.

[junior nymph]

Oh this is a great idea too!

[slow flax]

Hmm, I think that it would be cool if we could change this setting without changing the entire language. But I don't mind it, it is actually very cool the way it is right now.

[hazy rover]

I actually think it would be better if we had the option like a switch in settings to change the name format to allow that creative freedom. If I make a zoi in the South Korean theme city and want it to feel Korean, it feel more immersive to be able to have the last name first format.

[verbal shadow]

if it’s possible it would be cool to have it be based on each zoi. so if i’m playing in bliss bay in english i could still make a korean zoi that has the korean naming format, but the rest of bliss bay has the american naming format. so each world defaults to its name format but you can individually change it for certain zois for storytelling purposes. sorry if this doesn’t make sense i just woke up 😅

[thin shell]

A format for each nationality and a nationality for the Zois would be cool

[novel ice]

The work and creativity of your Inzoi team is to be congratulated!! Everything you did for Inzoi Early Access is already half of The Sims 4 done!!
Please bring this game into early access later this year (Until December 2024). Please don't start postponing this masterpiece...

[iron basin]

What if naming order is set in the character creator?
It makes more sense for zoi to use naming order how they would in their own culture.
Changing order based on which city they are in would be a cool idea but probably more complicated to code.

I also recall hearing some East Asian countries emphasize wanting to keep the typical naming order for those countries even in other languages

[verbal shadow]

being able to set your name preferences in the character creator would be a perfect solution!

[untold hemlock]

I feel like picking what nationality your zoi is during character creation is the best way! Keep each nationality unique! and distinctive! to motivate others in playing in different cities!

Edit:
While also giving them the freedom to do what they want!

[hasty lake]

I think it would be perfect with three options.
Option A : Based on language setting (default) / B : First-Last / C : Last-First

[iron basin]

I think different cultures and even religions would probably help make Zoi act more like they would irl.
A lot of people would probably object to religions being present, but I'm pretty sure there's a church in the American based city already.

This is really The Sims' major pitfall. Sims generally act similar even in Neighbourhoods based on completely different areas of the world, which is kinda immersion breaking if you think about it.

[plush turret]

If you are going for REALISM, then name order depends on your nationality AND if you have duel citizenship that uses other first name for a different country.

For example:

Single Citizenship

Taylor Swift is American which uses first-last name.
If visiting Korea, she still introduces herself as Taylor Swift because she has no other first name for Korean citizenship.

Lee Joongi is Korean which uses last-first name.
If visiting America, he still introduces himself as Lee Joonji because he has no other first name for American citizenship.

Duel Citizenship

Felix Lee is Korean who has both Australian and Korean citizenship.
He uses other first name (Felix) when residing in Australia but uses last-first name ( Lee Yongbok) when in Korea.

(Not sure if I am entirely correct on this, if there is mistake, someone correct me)

[hasty lake]

I think based on Zoi'will be too confusing to me as a player.

[untold hemlock]

100% agree. each city having its unique experience, Style, culture, way of life, and social norms will be more realistic, and encourage players to try living in the different cities!!
(Like when you travel to a new country, everything is different! its fun!)

[iron basin]

Absolutely, different places work better for different people and a lot of that is culture.
Different playstyles should probably be more fitting for different places

[hollow crater]

Why not have a selection to choose from, where there's a basically setting that allows you to choose your preference.

First Name First -> Second Name Last
Second Name First -> First Name Last

And when you select either one, it will automatically change the names around depending on what you select.

[atomic seal]

Yesss I love this idea

[hollow crater]

Maybe you can manually assign it to show on a particular zoi, if you want a specific zoi to have it either way

[atomic seal]

This is making me think if our zoi gets married would we use the npcs last name or would the npc zoi would use our last name

[plush turret]

generally, the male family name would be used

[atomic seal]

Yuh I was thinking that

[thin shell]

What do you mean by "based on language settings"?

[hollow crater]

It will automatically decide and change depending on the language you choose. For instance, if you choose English, it would do First Name First -> Second Name Last

[raven sky]

I think basing the name order on the language you have set for your game is the most practical and functional. I understand using other solutions to help with the inclusion and immersion factor, but I think basing the format of our Zoi’s name on the preferred language is the most practical. I believe the player might just have to use their creativity, imagination, and storytelling skills to fit the way their Zoi would handle name order and using names. Think about how in some countries, like Thailand, people will use nicknames more often in life than their birth name. Whereas, similar to Japan, people might prefer strangers and acquaintances to use their last names instead of their first names until they get closer to one another.

I am not a game developer, but I think it would be easiest and most practical for Inzoi’s code to just format names of our Zoi based on language preference.

[plush turret]

idk, I thought were talking about name order not name translation. Taylor Swift will still be first and last name translated in Japanese. They will just use katakana to piece together the pronunciation of her name. And Japanese know foreigners uses a first-last name approach so they may call them Swift San in Japanese, like Ms. Swift.

[raven sky]

Sounds about right

[plush turret]

No, actually they call foreigners first name, then san. Thats only because they know they are foreigners

[thin shell]

The order of first and last names is ultimately a complicated issue. I still have a hard time choosing between :
1- based on language 🤔
2- based on the region in which a Zoi lives 🤔
3- based on nationality 🤔

But in any case I would like the Zois to have a nationality. The more I think about it, the more I think that it is nationality that takes precedence over language.

Personal example: my family name is pronounced in a certain way in some countries and in other countries my family name is pronounced differently. I think that it is nationality that determines the codes.

[raven sky]

Thanks for clarifying

I think it is best just to avoid over complicating it

[gentle sigil]

Hi. That is an good solution.

But another suggestion is to add an option to toggle (first-last OR last-first) name in language settings, we can change this anytime to our own preference. Not attached to any language, region, city, etc.

[hazy rover]

I feel like this is best solution without overcomplicating things

[untold hemlock]

based on language is my LEAST favorite approach if im being honest…It limits the player.
And its immersion breaking.

Id be living in a korean city but i go by first and last name simply because i speak english?
But my zoi technically doesn’t speak English they live in a korean inspired city…Does that make sense???

(Even having it in settings is very immersion breaking..)

Either based on region or your zois nationality are my personal favorites

[iron basin]

i've seen a mix personally

[raven sky]

This would be the best solution in my eyes

[plush turret]

Yeah i guess it depends on how close the relationship is also

[iron basin]

very true, the formality system in Japanese is fairly advanced compared to any European language, though I've heard Korean has an even more complicated one

honestly learning Korean would probably be really interesting, though I wish Chinese Characters were still commonly used in it as that would make it so much easier for me

[thin shell]

Yes, said like that it's relevant.

[untold hemlock]

wouldn’t that be so fun to see in game!? Like,
“Your Zoi’s friend has began addressing your zoi with their given name, They’re friendship has grown”

Its a such but meaningful detail i japan and korea i find it sweet :)

[iron basin]

It would be really cool but would be complicated on what to do with the system for non-East Asian locales
I would really love to see East Asian cultures represented in the game, as Sims is very America/Western focused

[untold hemlock]

I would too! I feel like compared to other Kjun’s concerns this one is the easiest to apply and the least complicated! its also a small but very meaningful detail!

[silver imp]

More centered on America, not the West, we may be similar in some aspects, but in Europe, it is completely different from the USA. We have various different countries, rich in culture, lifestyle, and habits. Therefore, The Sims 4 is very focused on the USA.

[iron basin]

I'm very aware Europe is very diverse culturally. I'm British myself.
But Sims has more elements of European cultures compared to others, in addition to the majority of it being American derived.
Windenburg in the Sims 4 for example has Tudor era architecture. You also have Romeo and Juliet themed worlds in Sims 2 and 3. You also have Sims Medieval which is very Western European.

[silver imp]

And I liked all the name ideas that you chose for me, it's good

[lucid bane]

I think this is great. I am in North America and the Koreans I know just refers themselves as First name last name in English. I agree you keep the order with the language setting. Also I'm Chinese but I don't call myself last name first name in English (although it's that way in Chinese)

[peak mirage]

I do not like the idea of the zoi's name order to be based on the player's game language settings. I agree with what some people here have said about an option to select your zoi's nationality in the character creator. I feel like this would be the best way to implement this feature without it being too difficult to program into the game.

[haughty basalt]

hi Kjun, I feel like it should be a toggle rather than determined by language settings, as there are many English speakers and countries who also adopt the last name first name order (for example in some countries of southeast Asia, the names in government id cards are written in English but on a last name first basis) - hope this perspective could help you reconsider!

[shy oxide]

I dont think its a good idea to decide the order by language. Especially as someone coming from a multicultural household, even if you switch between languages. Certain customs of culture are still present, even if it is a different “language”. I don’t like the nationality option either because cultures all over the world are so different and diverse. Also language, nationality and ethnicity (sometimes these things overlap) are not the same. I would prefer a setting in character creation that lets me decide which order the name is shown. Maybe it would also be a good idea to implement nicknames. In some cultures people are usually referred to by their nickname. Also this could solve some problems with creating trans Zois if they could choose an additional name.

[marble gust]

In my opinion it would be nice if we could select the name order for our chars in character creation, while the NPCs name order would depend on the city they live in.

Alternatively, introduce a nationality system which would take care of it based on the nationality assigned to a ZOI, and in case of ZOI having 2 nationalities the name order would depend on the city they live in.

[fringe knot]

I have an interesting take on this. Considering that the map has Asian, European, and American parts, I suggest using the "Last-first" name format for the Asian part and the "First-last" format for the European and American parts. This mirrors real-life naming conventions. The naming should correspond to the region where your Zoi lives. Living refers to starting a family, buying a house, and going to work.

[thin shell]

I love your ideas

[fringe rapids]

Hii Kjun 🙂 I think this should be an option in the settings... I know that the menu is gonna get information overload cause we keep suggesting to have options in there but it doesn't have to be in the settings menu, perhaps in the city edit menu somewhere, but if I am in Dowon I would like my last names first even though my game language might be set to English 🙂

[fringe rapids]

Also a reminder ❤️ please be respectful and follow the rules when talking to the devs 🙂

[gentle sigil]

I disagree to add nationality option.

When the game randomize Zois, it will randomize nationality too and the results wouldn't make sense. Names in-game texts also will get very confusing with all mixed Zois name order.

[fringe knot]

It should be strictly based on the region where the Zoi will live. Because if let's say you move to live in a foreign country they will put your name on the password as it is already being done in their country.

[thin shell]

I partially agree with you because with the word "living" in a region is quite relative. I mean when we can consider that a zoi lives or not in such region. If a Zoi stays 2 days in Dowon is it that we can really consider that this Zoi lives in Dowon. I also mean a Zoi can also very well live temporarily in another region for holidays or just to work.

[fringe knot]

When people purchase a house or apartment, start a family, and go to work, it shows that they are settling down. Going on a holiday is not the same as living somewhere while starting a family and buying a house indicates a long-term commitment. If you decide to live in a different region, the name format will change accordingly.

[thin shell]

I think it would be nice if the InZOI game could also allow a bit like in the Sims to add the labels "native of Dowon" and or "resident in Dowon" for example this would also imply that with these labels : the zoi is linked to the customs of the city.

[rocky jungle]

Personally I think it would be a fun idea to have a “heritage” option

So you can have a first-last if your character’s heritage comes from blissbay and last-first if the character’s heritage is from dowon.

More scripting involved but I think it would be really cool for our Zois to actually experience that kind of cultural diversity

[fleet phoenix]

I think having the set up changed per language would be best and feel more fitting for the people playing

[gentle sigil]

Just realized no info on what'll be next topic

[undone wharf]

Hello there, my perspective is that I think that the asian NPCs should have for default their name in their correct order, as well as the bliss bay ones, we as a society should be aware the culture differences and we should be able to add the first-last or last-first on CAZ, sorry guys but “Hyungjun Kim” feels just weird to me it’s like okaaaay Kimberly😋😋🫰fun fact: when I create asian S*** always ALWAYS swap their first and last name, so the game displays messages like “Zhang just went to work” in my heart his name is Zhang Hao, his first name being Hao and his last name being Zhang, even though the game denies it 😭😭🫰

[thin shell]

Kjun indicated his posts about these concerns will stop at the end of August.

[fringe rapids]

When I moved to Japan my last name was first on all of my government documents even though I am not from there...

[fossil wagon]

I understand everyones POV but how would I know if I am speaking to a Korean or American in the game? How would I know if the particular zoi is using their last name..rather than their first name to begin with?

[viscid cloak]

Hi Kjun! I think a setting option where you can pick which one, because if it's a choice (In cas) by Zoi, then random NPC's walking around with both last-first name and first-last name choices may confuse players. I personally like something simple like an option in the settings. Thank you for giving us another post ^.^

[fringe rapids]

you could add a small indicator or extra bubble or something like this to indicate which name order that ZOI has if they decide to go the nationality route

[fossil wagon]

Yes that would be very confusing. I prefer having a nationality to know which zoi is from where

[thin shell]

Maybe with indicators that appear when the player puts the cursor on a character or NPC's. So the player will be able to see basic information of a Zoi such as: name / first name / age / nationality. Of course it's important that the characters have introduced themselves so that the player has more information on the NPC's.

[lucid bane]

I think my Korean coworkers follow the convention here in Canada - first name last name because all our legal documents are written this way and it's less confusing probably for an English speaker. Though tbh at work we just refer to ourselves with our first names. 🤷 I think they're not allowed to get dual citizenship too (?)

[fringe knot]

It's important to remember that the game isn't just for English players; it will be released worldwide. Focusing solely on the English player's perspective is limiting and inconsiderate. I'll be playing the English version even though it's not my native language and there's no translation for my language in any game. This perspective doesn't apply to every single English player.

[lucid bane]

That's why I say go with language (though I said that further up). My mother tongue is Chinese and yes it's the reverse but if I heard my name in English last name first name it would sound odd to me (granted I never lived in China and I'm not that fluent in Chinese)

[rocky jungle]

I’m updating my original post lol after read some of the comments, just make it a CAS option! No need to make a heritage option or anything like that, just make it an option a player can choose and change whenever they’d like! So if the player ends up moving to Dowon they can change it to last-first and vise versa!

However, default the NPCs in each location to have first-last if in blissbay and last-first in dowon!

[lucid bane]

^ oh that is a good option. keeps it somewhat cultural. but lets people choose. (just because I find it odd to have last name first name, to others, they find it odd the other way around)

[errant nebula]

I am in the UK but I'd have been happy enough to get used to the Korean way as it's a Korean game. I am also happy with the proposed solution of linking it to the language. So I am not hard to please in this way

[last pawn]

Instead of defaulting a region, would it be possible to have a toggle per region? That would allow for the most freedom. But I still like the idea of it being based on language.

[foggy monolith]

is this the last post in kjuns concerns?

[lucid bane]

yup Edit: no 😂 sorry thought you meant latest

[foggy monolith]

oh it makes me feel like the game will be released soon now

[errant nebula]

Only problem is the game probably needs to know the family name so it can name the children or married partners appropriately

[lucid bane]

ohhh that is another different thing. I think it changes per culture too. Some people like to keep their maiden names here (like professional females). I think in china, they just keep their own last name. I don't know how koreans work. I googled it:

Traditionally, Korean women keep their surnames after their marriage, but their children take the father's surname. In the premodern, patriarchal Korean society, people were extremely conscious of familial values and their own family identities. Korean women keep their surnames after marriage based on traditional reasoning that it is inherited from their parents and ancestors, and cannot be changed. According to traditions, each clan publishes a comprehensive genealogy book

wiki

probably better to just have a toggle at this point. LOL (or ask after the marriage/birth) - what is the last name. Or just choose one convention and go with it. haha i think we're making it very complicated xD

[young sand]

Can't we have a pre set as in "last-first" name in down and then be able to change different households in for example Dowan to "first-last" name. So it can be different ways to call someone even in the same place. Like change it manually but have standard "first-last" name in Blissbay

[rocky jungle]

What I’m saying is an order flipper, not putting your first as your last and vise versa

So say you originally chose in CAS to have your first-last but you wanted to change it

• there would be a ↪️ button next to your name that would flip the order for your whole family whenever you’d like.

No extra steps of anything. Just flip orientation whenever you’d like. However, npcs native to each district have their order in what’s native to them

[young sand]

Same

[rotund halo]

It is supposed to last until august

[rotund halo]

I don’t think so

[lucid bane]

Oh I thought you meant latest. Sorry. Poor reading comprehension on my part

[foggy monolith]

don't worry it's fine

[gray raven]

seems good to me

[limber wing]

Dont mind me, just typing so i can keep tabs on this post

[frail aurora]

the first-name last-name changing based on region where the game was downloaded OR language of the game installation is the way to go imo

[marble gorge]

I actually prefer the idea of having “last name - first name” in the Korean city and “first name - last name” in the western cities.

[mental steeple]

I think it'd be more immersive for it to depend on the city as well. when I immigrated I had to change the order of my name irl, so to me this makes sense in the game.

[shrewd matrix]

Personally, as long as it is correctly identified "last name" and "first name" when creating our ZOI it doesn't matter. In France sometimes they put the first name first, sometimes the last name. Generally we introduce ourselves by saying our last name first but on official documents it is often the first name, it depends. I think that already being well identified is already good.
Then if we had a choice in this case, it would perhaps be more logical that it be based on where we were born or in which city of departure and create our ZOI. So it applies at the level of its culture which seems logical for a game based on realism like inZoi.

[brittle dock]

I think we should just have the options to swap them around or something like that

[untold hemlock]

vote to make it easier kjun to understand the majority’s view point!

[sullen zephyr]

What about middle names?

[young sand]

I REALLY want that!

[sullen zephyr]

@weak tiger how do family, children, household and married names work in game?

[thin shell]

Good question, I think the player should be able to choose different options: the wife's name, the husband's name or a combination between the 2 last names.

[little plank]

I think it would be good to have it automatically chosen a certain way based on whatever language you have it as, but I also think having the option to do it manually would be a good choice to accommodate every player.

[dreamy bluff]

As someone who heartily enjoys the differences of cultures and traditions from many countries around the world no matter the region, I personally would actually like the idea of last-first if I played in the city of Dowon. 💕 I'm someone who really likes to go with parts of realism, and I think having an option perhaps for people to pick via tradition, or two others:

• Traditional: The default setting depending on where you're playing in. This would mean that In Dowon, it would default to last-first, and within Bliss Bay, it would be first-last automatically. (And for any other planned cities in the future depending on their themed setting.) 💙

• First-Last: A choice people can make if they want to stick with the more western tradition of first name and last name no matter where they play. I don't know how different it is in varioua western countries, but I've always seen folks either address others by name, or in some form of respect. "Mr./Mrs./Ms. (Last Name)" (The Mrs./Ms. depending on if the individual is married or not.) 🤔

• Last-First: Same as above, but strictly set to the person being addressed via their last name. With this one in particular, I am aware that family members by default, and very close friends will address the individual by their actual name. Additionally, another thing I'm aware of is that romantic partners will also at some point address their boyfriend/girlfriend by their actual name. I'd love to see an option where maybe if you're a close enough friend with someone, you could tell them that you can say their name? Maybe with romantic partners, at some point, they'll start calling your Zoi by their name later in the relationship, or in some affectionate ways?

I'm not sure if I missed anything, but it'd be very neat. Middle names I'd say would be an optional thing if someone is either born with one, or none at all, same with some fun nicknames people could go by. ✨

[verbal shadow]

love the idea of nicknames and middle names it adds so much character!! 💕

[craggy pecan]

I think a default name order based on nationality system, along with a toggle in CAZ, would be good. Then you wouldn't have the issue of western sims living in dowon automatically having last-first name which would be weird and irrealistic imo.
You could also have mixed nationalities and cultural aspects which would be a fun addition to the game.

I really don't like it being based on just game language because I would always have my language set to English but I would like to have my korean zois with last-first names, because that is how it would be regardless of my own nationality. I'm not korean myself but I would still call Koreans by their last name first.

Additionally, like others suggested, nicknames and middle names would be really nice to have as well.

[fringe knot]

I believe that naming formats for Zoi should be based on the region where the Zoi will live. For example, if you make a Zoi live in Asia, the name format would be "Last-First", which is traditional there.

If you then move your Zoi to Europe, the name format will automatically change to "First-Last", which is more common in Europe.

In the case of America, where many people have middle names, the naming convention could be specific to that region as well. The name format will be “First-Middle-Last”.

As a European, I don't encounter middle names very often, so this is less prevalent in Europe.

[craggy pecan]

Im European too but almost everyone where I live has middle names🙈

[gentle sigil]

I live in Asia and we don't use Last-First name order..... :/

[fringe knot]

I personally have never met a single European person with a middle name.

[fringe knot]

This is based on legal documents strictly.

[craggy pecan]

Hello nice to meet u I am a european middle name person🙃

[fringe knot]

Hello, as well I'm a European Balkan Area.

[gentle sigil]

This is not true at all. First-Last name order used in mine n many other Asian countries. I don't agree regional based name order because it may not be accurate, also my country is multiracial so its difficult situation.

[gentle sigil]

That's not even all countries in Asia .

[iron basin]

^

Turkey is in Asia.
East Asia does not represent all of Asia

[fringe knot]

I want to ensure that the game includes the correct naming format for different regions. For example, in Russia, the name format is "First-Last." If there are Russian cities or countries in the game, the naming format should apply to those regions. I applied this to the regions I already know are added for a fact.

[iron basin]

But it's only part of Asia that uses FamilyName-GivenName
Raz's objection to applying that order to all of Asia is because it's simply not used in all of it.
If that order was applied exclusively to the cultures that use it-not all of Asia-it should be fine.

[fringe knot]

Every region should be respected and the way they use their name format.

[gentle sigil]

Personally I'd rather just have an option to toggle between First-Last or Last-First name order in settings, and it applies globally. I can imagine how confusing it can be when different cities = different name order. If my Zoi travels or moves between cities, the name order will keep switching? I don't prefer to be using Last-First name in certain cities, this does not feels right if I wanted to make diverse Zois living in Dowon.

[upbeat pine]

Would it be possible to have both options to have last name come first or first name come first?

[jovial pecan]

I think that is a good idea. This way we're all seeing the names displayed in the order we are used to based on our language.

[thorny rivet]

Yes, i think being based on your language settings is perfect! Simply for the fact that most Americans playing the game may not have names that sound idk "correct" when using the asian last-first format. For example you may have a zoi that's name idk Jane Doe, but to Americans it would be odd if we had to put her name as Doe Jane because that's ismply not natural for us. However, the asian players may think that's perfectly comfortable. So, I think it's good being based on language settings. I could also see there being some confusion where American players may mix up the last name, first name and have their first name as their last name. So, in short, i believe that the language settings option is the best.

[thin shell]

You can answer the survey if you wish.

[signal flare]

I think what you've done there is the perfect solution.

[naive shore]

What you suggested is fine

[timber walrus]

Dang, I’m late. Yeah, it depends on culture. TS4 has a toggle to do that anyway. Remember, in a global, multi-cultural world the situation is incredibly nuanced. You certainly won’t see a 2nd generation Korean expat teenager living in America calling their friends by “last name-ssi/hyung/unnie” in high school when the norm is calling them affectionately by their first names despite having pure blood Korean parents at home. Furthermore, the naming systems in the West are complex as well like the east. The Slavs use patronymics and the North Germanics have their -sens and -dottirs

that one is incredibly complicated

[raven sky]

I agree! It shouldn’t be complicated and adding more time and work for the team. Keep it simple and make it an option in the menu.

[thin shell]

Just off-topic ideas :

• It would be nice if the game offered a random list of first names and last names typical of Korea, of the USA, etc. for those who want to, for example, make Korean Zois in Dowon and American Zois in Blissbay.

• If this random list of first and last names proposed by the game could be modified and could be completed by the player, that would also be great.

[fickle glen]

Have both options would be good. Like a button where you can switch between them? Just an idea.

[fringe knot]

I'd like to learn more about language-based settings.

Are we saying that everyone who selects a certain language setting will have a default naming system wherever they go?

If that's the case, I anticipate that many people will choose the English language settings because I know for a fact that there won't be a translation available in my native language. As a result, I will likely encounter the option for a naming format such as "First-Middle-Last" because the majority of English speakers are Americans. This won't feel true to my culture and the way I'm accustomed to seeing naming formats, and it won't seem like an accurate representation of reality for everyone. Therefore, I don't think this is a good option, especially because playing games in the English language setting doesn't mean that English is your first or mother tongue.

[thin shell]

The option based on language settings is my least favorite because there is no immersion.

[dim knoll]

I do like the idea of different settings but as a few have already pointed out, the naming system is not really necessarily based on west and east side of the world. Maybe, since the cities are inspired by certain cultures and real countries, have inzois that will live in the korean city dowon go with the last name-first name and inzois that live in bliss bay for example with first name-last name. Therefore it creates more immersion of the inzoi itself and their surrounding

[craggy pecan]

Area based would already be better than language based for sure, because language based is so incredibly limiting. The most accurate and realistic system is just based on nationality because in real life not everyone who lives somewhere has the naming system of that place. It should be changeable per individual zoi with a default suggested order.

[vital zodiac]

I’m not sure, but I think it would be to complicated to choose the nationality. I believe it would be better in choosing the region like “Dowon” , “Bliss bay” etc. the name should be with regards to the location the zoi is living in.

Please let’s focus on the “concerns” Kjun has asked us about. Instead of putting ideas he was not asking. There is specific group for it.. thank you

[thin shell]

The nationality also answers to the Kjun's concerns.

[drowsy cobalt]

I like the idea of it being based on the city we choose. Like if i were to move to Korea I would be addressed the traditional way. I would love if this could be a setting preference based off the city and not language oriented.

[gentle sigil]

Language based is not limiting, its more manageable than area/city based. Just add an additional button to toggle/swap name order if we didn't like the default setting. In my case I preferred to have First-Last name applied to all because having both in one game can be so confusing.

[craggy pecan]

It is limiting because you can only have a specific setting based on your language, I can only use english because I can't speak Korean or other Asian languages, so that would mean I could never have last-first names even though I want to have that for my Korean sims because that is how their names would be said in their country

[gentle sigil]

I understand but there could be situations where things can get confusing. Imagine an acquaintance to your Zoi named "Kuai Liang". When your zoi lives in Dowon, "Kuai sent you a message". Then your zoi moves to Blissbay, "Liang sent you a message". It will keep switching according to the city.

[craggy pecan]

They would probably just make it so it will always use the first name for messages like that, regardless of if the setting is to have the first or last name in front for their full name

[thin shell]

I admit it's quite funny.

[fringe knot]

It's uncommon to have friends from different continents in real life, and I think the same applies to the game. In real life, you can only communicate with them through social media. If you have a friend with a traditional Asian name in the "Last-First" format and you have a Zoi who lives in Europe, when sending messages or communicating, it will show in the "First-Last" name format. For example, if your friend is named Lee Hyori, and your Zoi lives in Europe, then their name would be saved on your phone as Hyori Lee and that's how messages from that person will appear.

That is why it should depend on the area where your Zoi lives.

If you're European and have an Asian friend, you save their name in your contacts the usual way, "First-Last".

[warped veldt]

Basing the name order on the language chosen is a good idea, however this could make things difficult for those who may like or prefer having last-first but are unable to read the language it is assigned to. So an alternate solution could be to simply make it an option that could be checked on and off across the bored. On could be last-first and Off could be first-last.

[polar grove]

The best option would be giving 3 settings:

• first-last
• last-first
• "ask with each Zoi I am making"

Of course, each city could have its own rules and ready-made Zoi should have the order based on the area/culture/country the city is based on.
Tying it to the language you're playing in would be a good option but could also be limiting or even confusing to some players.

[warped veldt]

Agreed. Another reason I think it should be an option chosen by the player is because people could feel limited to location. What if I want to go by last-first but also want my zoi to be in bliss city? No one should have to be relegated to a specific language or location to have their name display a certain way in the game. I understand we are shooting for realism but we have to remember that this is still very much a game.

[sly jay]

Wouldn't it be better to let the player decide in what order your character would be adressed?
My language used for in game will probably be English. But in my region we usually also use a last-first name basis

[polar grove]

That sounds like a good idea too! They could make an even more advanced optional menu where you could choose how you want to be adressed based on which city your specific Zoi is in.

[distant epoch]

Hi, Spicy KJun. 🤣

As an American with a lot of Asian friends (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino, and Vietnamese), I am very much accustomed to last name first.
I would obviously set my game to English, but I would want to see my Asian Zois with their names last, first.
Is there a way to set your preference for this that isn’t tied to your language setting in the game?

When I create a Zoi and they are, for example, Korean, I want their name to appear correctly last, first if possible.

Edited to add: Maybe for the already existing Zois in the world, their name order can be based on the city they came from... However, if I encounter a Zoi in Bliss Bay that I did not create but I want to befriend and make part of my story, I hope I can click on them to edit how their name appears (or find them in some world directory or something to be able to edit).

Thank you for asking us our opinion.

[alpine hazel]

Absolutely love your solution! I am English speaking and First-Last is my preference for sure! Appreciate you taking time to consider this detail!

[bitter gorge]

I'd rather an option in settings to change it honestly.
Maybe by default the name setting could be set by the language selection, but I would like there to be a toggle in gameplay settings. Maybe it could even be on each zoi individually, so if I make a Korean zoi then I can have her introduce last-first, but the american zois I can set to introduce first-last.

[dapper path]

I think it should be something that’s NOT LOCKED by region or language and more based on what the player chooses!! I think locking the feature by region OR language is a bad idea.

Perhaps in language in settings you can flick a switch to change the order of the names!!

[dreamy bluff]

This, right here. I want to be able to use the last-first option, especially as someone who embraces differences in all sorts of culture.

[thin shell]

I really like the idea that the InZOI game promotes cultures.

[fringe knot]

I believe it's important to take into account cultural and traditional customs, which vary by region and should be respected. Since the game will have a global release with different areas like Asia, Europe, and America, it's necessary to respect the specific customs of each region. In the default setting for the Asian region, where the traditional name format is "Last-First," this should be reflected in the game. For European cities, the default naming format should be "First-Last," and for American cities, it should be "First-Middle-Last" by default. Players can always relocate their character (Zoi) to a different region to experience a different naming format. The default naming format will also apply when communicating, via phone or face-to-face, with NPCs from the same and different cities than the one your Zoi resides in.

For players who want their Zoi to reside in America but still use the "Last-First" naming format, there should be an option in the settings for them. However, this should be strictly an option, as most people would likely prefer the default settings, as I do, for example.

[gentle sigil]

Kjun initially stated they tried doing name order based on city, but it wouldn't make sense when non-Korean lives in Dowon. Last-First name doesn't sounds right for english or non-Korean names. Its better to let players pick either First-Last or Last-First for their preference in general like suggested. Many players will be confused when once their names order reversed at some point, they will think it's a bug.

[fringe knot]

You have the option not to move to cities where the name format is "Last-First", which will solve your problem. You can vacation there, but your Zoi doesn't have to reside there. Personally, as a European, I'll probably move my Zoi to Europe, and by using the default naming format "First-Last", everyone I interact with will have names in the "First-Last" format. When I decide to move to a city where the name format is "Last-First," then I will pick a name suitable for the said city (if I want to change the name), since you can always change your Zoi (name, appearance or play with a completely different Zoi) at any time.

[craggy pecan]

Like I said, Europeans can have first-middle-last names just as well as americans

So middle names certainly shouldn't be just for america and not for europe because we use them very frequently as well

[craggy pecan]

It wouldn't make sense to have to change your name just to live in another country. That's not the case in real life either

All of this would just be solved by having a toggle for every zoi and the option for one or more middle names or not

[untold hemlock]

if you live in a different country, you go by their government and rules..when signing legal documents in japan and korea you do surname and then given name. Your name doesnt change just the way it’s arranged.

[fringe knot]

Given Names (First Names):
These are individual names given to a person at birth or during a naming ceremony.
They are often chosen based on cultural, religious, or familial preferences.
Examples include “John,” “Maria,” or “Sophie.”
Given names can vary significantly across different European countries and traditions1.
Family Names (Surnames):
Family names, also known as surnames or last names, indicate a person’s lineage or family affiliation.
They are typically inherited and shared within a family, tribe, or clan.
Examples of family names include “Smith,” “García,” or “Müller.”
In some cultures, family names are added after the given name(s) in the full legal name1.
Name Order:
The order of given names and family names varies across cultures.
In the Western name order (commonly used in most European countries), the given name(s) precede the family name.
For instance, in the name “James Smith,” “James” is the given name, and “Smith” is the family name.

[craggy pecan]

Yeah thats what I meant, the actual name wouldn't change just the order which would make it very strange if you get names like Puth Charlie or Obama Barack lmao

[fringe knot]

I got this from Google, we can't talk about exceptions, because the majority use the "First-Last" name format in Europe, and the majority is most likely to play the game.

[craggy pecan]

But we already knew all of that

[untold hemlock]

it would be strange, but they’d be living in blissbay so their names would be in the usual order.

[craggy pecan]

Yeah if they just live in the country they're originally from it would be fine, just when immigrating it would become an issue and confusing

[untold hemlock]

yeah but thats life..🤷 When westerners move or immigrate (Unless they’re tourists) they go by the korean naming system and follow the government rules.

Same goes with the korean zois that move to blissbay, the order of their names change to first-Last.

It’s not an issue, this is just life and how moving to a different country works.

[fringe knot]

Thank you for saying it!!!!

[polar grove]

I think similarly but just cause you move from France to Korea it doesn't mean your name changes in general so it would be cool if zoi from back home would use the system they're already used to (when they call you or visit your new city for example) and zoi in the new place could adress you by the local customs!

[untold hemlock]

i feel like this is more the players problem isnt it?? Each city has its own rules and customs. It's an opportunity for players to learn about different cultures and gain a greater appreciation for diversity. Rather than catering to the misinformed, let's embrace the uniqueness of each city and allow them to maintain their individuality. Let's make each city truly unique, fun, and an exciting experience for all players, and not just a one-size-fits-all solution.

I heavily want to avoid what happened to the sims. Each city in the sims feels exactly the same and it doesn’t really matter where you live as the only difference is the way it looks.
So wouldn’t it be cooler if inzoi lets each city true to themselves?
(Ik this is just about names but idk i just wanted to voice my concerns and thoughts.)

[polar grove]

Yeah... the sims has this "its all the same country" vibe, so it would be great if anyone could choose the order they want their zoi to have but also that each city would just have it's own rules for every premade zoi living there.

[lucid bane]

Yes! We go by local custom though this might confuse a player who isn't aware of other customs

[untold hemlock]

good opportunity for them to learn then! 👍

[lucid bane]

🤔 though if I were to say my name in Chinese, i would just go for last name first name. Hmm 🤔 though I think English media (like Kpop fan sites) refer to Korean celebs last name first name. But my Korean coworkers in Canada just go the other way cuz it's less confusing for locals

[polar grove]

Yeah! The choice could come with a short disclaimer like "hey, did you know that the order of your first and last name varies? here you can choose your preferred order!"

[fringe knot]

And you have the freedom not to live in cities where the "Last-First" name format is used, as the game will offer you various cities with different cultures, for those who find it confusing.

[fringe knot]

Wait, I just noticed something while scrolling. I actually like Obama Barack way more. It always seems like a last name to me anyway. 🤩

Anthony Barack 🤩 🤩 🤩

[scarlet bough]

Can't we have it interchangeable as a setting decided when making a Zoi? I speak English and don't know Korean, but last-first is more natural for me oddly enough due to my school

That way players can simply select it or let the game decide

[chilly ibex]

Hello!
I appreciate the thought, however, as someone who throughly enjoys learning other countries cultures, I wouldn't want to be deprivated of something like this. It would feel like I'm more or less saying "well I'm from the States and that's not how we do it." I'm not saying that's what it is saying, I'm just saying I feel like I'm being disrespectful to another countries culture by not following the customs. Personally, I love little details like this. Names are very important to alot of people and therefore the order does matter to alot of people.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but if there was a way we could switch it when we are in the Zoi creating mode or if we change something when in game with them, that would be great. So that way it's up to the player if they want to have last name first or first name first. Kind of like a toggle button for lack of a better word where you can switch it. So maybe for us in the US were we commonly have first names first but we want to tell a story of a Zoi coming from Korea to the US, they can still keep their name order properly.
I hope that makes sense. Basically I would hate for any form of culture to be cut out. This one of the many many many things I am so excited about for this game. The opportunity to not have to play a game that is really only set in the country I live in. I want to play where I can explore and learn about other places. ❤️😊

[dreamy bluff]

I’m hoping that if the “middle” is included, it’s an optional space to fill. Since not every American and European has a middle name. Also, I do know that some people do have multiple middle names. Heard of some folk with about 5 words in a middle name or more. Even some peoples’ ancestors would have that commonly, too.

I’d be a bit unhappy if I was forced to fill in a middle name if I don’t want my Zoi to have one.

[fringe knot]

English naming conventions arrange names as follows: [first given name] [middle given name (s)] [FAMILY NAME]. For example, Bradley Justin BROWN (male) or Jacqueline Casey SMITH (female).

When I searched the most common American naming format I got "First-Middle-Last". I see your point, maybe you can leave it empty. However, the majority of Americans have middle names therefore it should be in the game (for the American cities).

Could be just me, I don't believe adding multiple middle names is a good option. However, when naming your Zoi, you can add multiple options, For example, let's say you want to have two different middle names when clicking on a middle name option when naming just add two different middle names, Justin Bradley Don Smith. I believe this is done in Sims 4 when naming I can add two last names for example.

As for the European naming format “First-Last”, you can add a middle name to the last name section. Watch the video I posted below you will see what I mean. @craggy pecan

[untold hemlock]

Voting makes it easier for Kjun to understand the general public’s opinion

[fringe knot]

You can type multiple options for first and last names, the same function will apply to middle names as well (for those who want to have multiple first, middle, and last names).

[orchid crane]

Perfect solution. I agree

[rustic niche]

Sorry, but if I had to choose between language and region, I prefer region all the way. Although I am an English speaker, I am used to seeing Asian names written last-first, and if I am making a Korean zoi, it would feel VERY unnatural seeing their names first-last. Imagine me making a Zoi version of Wony and being forced to call her Wonyoung Jang instead of Jang Wonyoung? If not by nationality, I prefer you keep it region based. Also, I don't think it's weird for an American to use last-first when in an Asian setting, as that's just the norm there, and it isn't actually like their name has changed just because it will now be addressed in a different order. That's how it works in real life, so why not? Another example is Yoonchae from Katseye. She's in a Western Girl group and if you Google her you will see her named "Yoonchae Jeong" and it's like that in all the western articles written about her since she is residing and working in the U.S. Doesn't mean her actual name has changed though, has it? If she goes back to Korea she will still be Jeong Yoonchae. This is the way to go.

[fringe knot]

I personally think the names should be by city/country. When people move or visit they normally change the order of the name based on where they live. If a westerner moved to korea they would most likely go by last name first and if you move from korea to Western countries they change to first name first

[fringe knot]

It should be optional, some people will prefer default settings and others will want to use the “Last-First” name format. The default setting in America would be “First-Middle-Last” if we are going region-based (everyone you communicate with will show up as the default). However, if you still want to see the name format “Last-First” even though your Zoi resides in America, you will have the option to click on the settings that will allow you to use the “Last-First” option. I suggested this previously.

I know as a European I would prefer the default settings since is what I'm accustomed to. The default region-based for Europe would be “First-Last” and everyone I communicate with will show up as the default option.

[fringe knot]

If I can give an example. Original name format Lee Hyori, if I met her in real life right now I would just call her Hyori since in Europe a lot of the time we just use the first name or family affiliation, and then the first name (Aunt Mary, reserved for older family members, so not cousins for example) when communicating. This feels natural to me and is what I'm accustomed to.

I would say: “Hi, Hyori how have you been?”

When introducing her I would say: “Have you met my friend Hyori Lee”

[thin shell]

I'm looking forward to hearing Kjun's thoughts on the order of first and last names in the game.

[gentle sigil]

Solution 1: Name order based on language used in game. But add an additional option to swap name order if players prefers the other.

Solution 2: In CAZ, add a toggle button to swap first-last or last-first order. We set ourself how we want each individual zoi's full name displayed.

Solution 3: Pick your own preference in settings. Set name order by :

• Language [default]
• First-Last
• Last-First
• City-Based
  The reason why city/region based can't be default because most new players will be confused seeing the name order kept swapping between cities and they can't change it. It'll be problem once they think it's a bug.

[young sand]

I love 2 and 3

[craggy pecan]

I think any solution would be fine as long as there is a toggle for every individual zoi as well

I would still prefer the default to be based on nationality that you could set per zoi, but if there's a toggle it doesn't matter that much because you can customize it anyway

By far the worst option would be to have it solely based on game language

[fringe knot]

I'm for region-based ALL THE WAY!!!! 🤩🤩🤩

https://tenor.com/view/baby-scream-yeah-hockey-kid-gif-24698394

[thin shell]

I agree for the solution 2 combined with solution 3

[untold hemlock]

I seriously think picking the zoi’s nationality is the best solution 👍 easy to put in the game, and it adds so much meaning to the zoi’s

[hollow crater]

So, by choosing the zoi's nationality, it will automatically change the format depending on where you picked

[untold hemlock]

Exactly, while also allowing your zoi to live where they want to.
And if for example you choose for your zoi’s nationality to be korean but live in blissbay. your zoi’s name is “Last-First” but everyone in bliss-bay goes by “First-last”

maybe you even run into zois of other nationalities

[craggy pecan]

Yeah that seems the smartest solution to me (especially if there's a toggle too) plus it would add extra depth, interest, and potential for cultural aspects to the game which is always good

[fringe knot]

1.) Nationalities based on the cities in the game or all nationalities in general?

2.) Will Dowon, for example, use the "Last-First" name format by default, while Blissbay will use the "First-Middle-Last" name format?

3.) Will anyone my Zoi interacts with have the default name format of the city my Zoi moved to?

4.) Will there be an option in the settings for those who want to use the "Last-First" name format, no matter where they move to, in the settings?

I'm asking to learn more about nationality-based settings.

[untold hemlock]

In my opinion:

1. based on the city’s in inzoi

2. Yes, NPC’s living in dowon will have the “Last-first” format, along with a korean nationality!

3. I’ll explain using an example:
   Lets say you let your zoi move into blissbay.
   You might (Small percentage as majority of blissbay will ofc have a blissbay nationality) meet NPC zoi’s in blissbay with a Dowon nationality! (Like tourists) low percentage, majority of them will have the Blissbay nationality.

4. Just pick the Korean nationality before moving to blissbay to obtain the “Last-First” name.
   You’ll get
   Living in: Blissbay
   Nationality: Korean

I hope i was clear enough!

[fringe knot]

1.) How does one obtain a Korean or Dowon nationality, for example?

2.) Will anyone with a different nationality than the one most common in Blissbay, for example, their name will show up in the "Last-First" name format or the default?

3.) Can you still use the name format "Last-First" without obtaining Korean nationality?

[craggy pecan]

(Also in my opinion)
1)

• For new zois this should be a setting in CAZ, where you can pick a nationality and this will apply a setting that belongs to that nationality automatically. I think they could also obtain a nationality by living in a country legally for a specific time, at least where I live you have to live here legally for 5 years to obtain citizenship.
• For already existing zois, this would probably have to be done by the game developers originally.
• For offspring, it should be the place where they are born and registered (not sure if that's how it works in real life but if it's different, the most accurate option should apply).

2. If someone with a different nationality goes to Blissbay, it should keep using their original nationality settings, so where they are originally from. At least until you legally become a citizen which could be an option. So yes, Korean zois would keep using last-first even when moving to Blissbay, at least initially.

3. I hope so, that is why I keep recommending a switch in CAZ so that you can use both options if you so desire, even if it doesn't make any sense logically and regardless of the default settings. Because this is a life simulator and people love to do the most crazy and illogical things.

[slate rune]

give asians (Koreans and Japanese or others who have this naming convention) and non-asian users. Perhaps this should be configured before the game is started?

is it just japanese and koreans who style their first and last name this way? Do Chinese or other nationalities do this?

[untold hemlock]

My opinion:

1. CAZ

2. if they have a different nationality than the one in blissbay, they keep using their original nationality’s name format.

3. Maybe if there is a japanese nationality, or a chinese one or something. Other than that no, you cant have a blissbay nationality and have the “Last-First” name setting. (Otherwise its confusing. Because actually think about it, you live in blissbay and meet someone with a blissbay nationality but their name is Brown Adam instead of adam brown for NO reason? how will players know? the nationality helps show that “Oh Dowon nationality, so their name is “Last-First”)

[craggy pecan]

Yeah I agree with point 3 that by default it should not be possible, except IMO if you manually change it with a toggle in CAZ

[untold hemlock]

Yeah yeah 100%

[fringe knot]

I prefer my Zoi is from Blissbay, for example, everyone they interact with (NPCs, tourists, etc.) will have the default settings for said region/nationality. When communicating with my Zoi, via phone or face to face, instead of "Lee Hyori," be "Hyori Lee,".

I love the idea for your offspring. After my Zoi gives birth, there should be a naming ceremony, afterwards, my Zoi will go to the government building for citizenship papers.

As for nationalities, you can either change it in CAS or a government building when moving. When scrolling up, I saw dual citizenship suggested, if added, should be done in a government building, not CAS.

Thank you, for answering my questions. @untold hemlock & @craggy pecan

[untold hemlock]

If thats the case seems like “Based on city” is what you ACTUALLY prefer! We’ll see what Kjun does 🤍

[craggy pecan]

Retag for people who havent voted yet🙃

[fringe knot]

I can't wait for his response. I want to see it from the Devs perspective.

https://tenor.com/view/excited-anticipation-gif-26437945

[weak tiger]

This is a great idea, especially as other people have mentioned that some countries call each other by their nicknames instead of their full names

[weak tiger]

This was something I wasn't aware of! I searched online, and this is very true
Thank you for teaching me something new. It definitely helped me with revising the rules 👍

[weak tiger]

I'm caught!! 😱

In all seriousness.. I had a hard time deciding what topic I wanted to discuss after this one, but no worries, Kjun's Concerns will keep going until August, as previously announced

I was pleasantly surprised to see how many of you took such an interest in this topic. It made me realize that we truly are a diverse collective of many different cultures.

To keep the answer fairly short, I found that most were receptive to my proposal, though many helped me see that there was definitely room for improvement. For instance, one response pointed out that there actually are English-speaking people who use the 'last-first' name order, which I was definitely unaware of!

Ultimately, providing more options for players to personalize their experience seemed like the best approach after all, as was for a lot of our other topics. Please refer to the revised ruleset below for 'name order' conventions in inZOI.

1. Addition of an 'override' for name order setting

• We will be defaulting to our initially proposed ruleset, where the name order is determined based on your 'game language' settings.
• However, you will be able to change your name order from 3 different options in 'Game settings > Language' and 'Create a Zoi'.
• The 3 options are 'First-Last', 'Last-First', and 'Based on current city'.
• When 'Based on current city' is selected, names will appear as 'First-last' in Bliss Bay and 'Last-first' in Dowon.

2. Addition of a third name category: 'Nickname'

• In 'Create a Zoi', there will be a new text box where you can enter the Zoi's 'Nickname' in addition to their first and last names.
• You will also be able to choose from 2 different options as to how the Zoi's nickname will appear.
• The 2 options are 'First "Nickname" Last' (or 'Last "Nickname" First', depending on your name order) and 'First Nickname Last' (or 'Last Nickname First').
• The selected full name convention will be displayed on various user interface, but other Zois will refer to them just by their 'Nickname'.
• When creating a Zoi, 'First name' and 'Last name' are required, but 'Nickname' is optional.

Hopefully, this will cover most, if not all, use cases where you use 'name order' as another way of creating more immersion in your inZOI gameplay!

My apologies for the recent delays in posting new topics and replying to your comments. My team and I have been extra busy preparing for inZOI's appearance at gamescom 2024. If you missed out on the announcement, check out the promotional video below.
https://youtu.be/vfzAj55SpKE?si=9vgo_7-8MeAtHn4s

See you in the next post!

[weak oriole]

Thank you for the update.

I would like if we discuss culture representation next, if possible 🙏🏻

https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1248301150743171135

https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1254712578060455997

https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1255436280721051690

https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1257973761840250890

Or even scheduled/impromptu events.

https://discord.com/channels/1162040845181124618/1236051612066123806

From the gameplay footage it didn't look like it had any events except for the drone show which the ZOI'S were non reactive and it had no impact on how the game evolved from it.

[vestal patio]

We have to wait until August. There is very little video content.

[untold hemlock]

Thank you kjun for the update!
Im happy there will be an option for “Based on City”

[viscid cloak]

Love it all! Thank you:) I'm so excited for this game

[fringe knot]

I read “Based on current City” I’m happy. Thank you for listening to us and can't wait for Gamescom 2024!!! 🥰❤️🤩

[lucid bane]

Oh great solution. I think most people will be happy. I love how you kept the local option so I can just change it as per local custom. I might use that option! And Nicknames

[marble gust]

Sounds good. Thanks for the update 🙂

[ionic flax]

Solid solution! I’m more use to using my last name first in America due to my professional career paths since High school but I definitely understand that majority of Americans are comfortable with First name first and ONLY first names a lot of the times.

[brisk lintel]

Thanks for the update! Love the addition of nicknames! I do hope they are fine tuned a bit more in the future tho.

I'd love if nicknames were something unlocked after meeting someone. Like an interaction to tell the other zoi their nickname instead of just automatically using it if I'm understanding how they work properly.

[ionic flax]

Wow, That does sound awesome, small detail but Makes a world of difference in a relationship.

[fair terrace]

I prefer "FIRST NAME - LAST NAME".... However I didn't know that Korean people call it backwards.

[thin shell]

(Big parenthesis...

Kjun, I have an idea for a potential topic : the GRADUAL AGING.
I know there is a lot of divergence on this topic.
There are people who like and prefer :

1 > that the aging of the characters is progressive and visible a little and above all progressively during the life of the Zois and not necessarily during birthdays.

2 > that the aging of the characters is very visible and that each birthday marks the aging.

Etc...)

[plush turret]

What do you mean delays in posting new topics and replying, I didn't think you were late. 😄Gamescon 2024 let's gooooooo!!!🎮 can't wait any new surprises you have!💗

[plush turret]

That indeed is a topic to consider...how do we solve that? options in the setting again? (as usual hahaha) Also..some want aging completely off, what to do 🤔

[zealous goblet]

Coding wise, wouldn't it simply be easier to make it a toggle option? Let players choose if they prefer to see FIRST-LAST or LAST-FIRST? Whatever is easier for the team

[raven sky]

I am so happy with the solution!! You and the team really made a thoughtful solution that makes everyone happy. We appreciate you all and hopefully you all are resting and taking care of yourselves. Congratulations on you all working on Inzoi’s presentation and we are all looking forward to the next update and topic.

[raven sky]

He is right under you 🤭🤭

[next fox]

It is a fine solution! However as an American I would also enjoy having it work as different solutions for each city. So when we played in Bliss Bay: first/last. As an American I am looking forward to playing in the Korean city and experiencing life on that city's terms, so I would be fine having the reverse setting there. I would prefer that actually, as at least at first I will feel myself a visitor accepting the culture on it's own terms and wanting to experience a different culture than my own.

[kindred steppe]

yeah toogle what you would like

[lament mortar]

TWO toggles:

1. Straight up invert names, Lastname firstname -> Firstname Lastname
2. Per culture. Names inverted in culture? Keep them inverted

[stark pulsar]

Hi! It's nice to formally meet you all! I think this should be an option in the settings. I've immersed myself in Korewn culture and am used to having the last name-first name option but im also used to having a first name-last name option as well. So it could be great to have an option in the settings where the player can choose this for themselves.

[rain flax]

Having the choice in the settings seems to be a really good idea. Like a JJ/MM/YYYY or MM/JJ/YYYY format preference in basic apps

[fringe rapids]

@mellow sage Please refrain from pinging Kjun! 🙂

[mellow sage]

@fringe rapids What did I say wrong? I just asked chatgpt to translate for me! I didn't mean to offend or anything like that! and if I said a bad word I'm sorry in my country it's quite normal to say bad words or swear as a form of friendly banter, only people usually know that it's banter! I am really sorry! and I'm 13 years old, I don't even know his name, I just put what was written in the username! and no offense! Why are Asians so formal? In my country, the second meeting we have with someone we practically become best friends! I'm sorry if I offended!....

[fringe rapids]

Awe you are sweet! you didn't say anything wrong! I mean the @Kjun, that's a ping. It sends notifications to them every time you do it 🙂

[mellow sage]

@fringe rapids Thanks for explaining, pretty girl, the translator wasn't translating right!

[mellow sage]

@fringe rapids beautiful girl, follow me on YouTube please I do animation there name:"contos da Lari"

[twin perch]

As Westerners but with a love of the Korean culture, I would love to be able to play the game in English but with the 'last-first' setting. Although we're learning Korean at the moment, we're not fluent yet and so would love to have the game in English but still have the name 'last-first'.

[fringe knot]

I like the solution! It works well to allow people to choose how their Zoi will be referred to. Personally, when chatting with people from the countries that use 'last-first' name format while I myself am currently living in a country that uses 'first-last' name format, I normally simply ask them how they prefer I refer to them and I refer to them accordingly.

[frank tendon]

I think this should be a choice inside the game since it depends on each gameplay style and culture.

[mellow sage]

It would be cool if you could choose who will call Zoi by her nickname, for example choosing between friend, boyfriend/fiance/husband, family members, it would also be cool if you could choose a nickname for friend, boyfriend/fiance/husband and choose another nickname for friends close ones, friends and family! I hope you consider this

[opal torrent]

give players a choice in game, like players can choose name order

like in options for gameplay, the player can choose "first-last" order and "last-first" order

Moreover, some cultures don't use surnames, maybe we can also include the choice of not using surnames in character creation

[tardy umbra]

Commonly, name order is an cultural thing (nowdays, its an administrative thing). so I think it needs to be an option in the city-setting. Also this way is more easy to develop. Isn't? Or.. how about give a 'culture' for a character? which includes name order, mothertoungue, and etc

이름 순서라는 것은, 대개 언어의 수식어구 순서에 따른 문화적인 것입니다. 전산화가 이루어진 요새는 행정적인 것이고요. 그래서 저는, 이름 순서를 도시 설정에서 정할 수 있도록 하는 것이 더 나은 것이 아닌가 하고 생각합니다. 그게 만들기도 더 편하지 않나요? 아니면.. 캐릭터에 문화라는 클래스를 하나 더 할당하는건 어떤가요? 이름 순서, 생활양식, 모국어 등의 변수가 포함된 것 말이죠

[opal torrent]

I prefer making it a gameplay option

[upper jay]

i need my name to be Barbara Judge, not Judge Barbara ;_; 🤣 thank you ily

[languid junco]

first - last sorry i thought we were saying what we would be using lol. I do like the solution you guys came up with.

[lone pond]

last-first

[opal torrent]

how about containing both, and let players choose which one to use in gameplay?

[upper jay]

Well that would be acceptable for me, if I can choose that in settings and not only for my zoi-s 🤔

[bitter thorn]

In places like dowon you could do last-first and places like bliss bay do first-last. Just have it depended on what they do in the area the city is based off of.

[lone pond]

they made it so its based off of language

[opal torrent]

ok

[twin perch]

That may still change. I think he put up a KJuns Concerns on it and we haven't had an official answer yet... so there's still hope

[lament mortar]

There's literally many solutions to this and I like nearly all of them. Regional-based, culture-based, or just user toggle all would work.

[marble gust]

...except Kjun already did give an answer to this topic...
A month ago..
#1259812808615268394 message

[twin perch]

Awesome! Thanks for letting me know. That's actually great news! Exactly what I wanted.

[graceful flume]

If this question is asked then it shows the dedication of the team to make the best possible game. <3
I think I would rather have a preference for each character.
Let me explain, when I spent my time in homestay in Japan for an internship, I quickly noticed how I would call Japanese people by their last name, but they would call me by my first name, as it would be easier.
I think the format would be better depending on the background of the Zoi.
But for formal documents it would depend on the country/city where we are.
Not really sure about the workload required to do this tho.

[outer moat]

yes i was wondering about the last and first name, thanks for educating me , i thought all used first and last name throughout the world, but i am loving the idea if you play game in English it goes First then last name, what a great way of getting around it , and thank you for letting us play hands on with the Caz i loved it, i am hoping i get to play the next beta of the game as i wanted to start my gaming channel up again, i have already spoke in a ticket about it so fingers cross 🙂 but you guys are amazing so looking forward to dropping all my InZOI's i made into the worlds and following there story's and progress 🙂 once again thank you for letting us have hands on with the creator , it was great fun to create i think i only got to make 8 but loved it 🙂

[boreal needle]

I'd love to see a option to switch the last names! I want to make diverse families.

[lyric rapids]

I am Angel Koopa but I am American 🇺🇸.

[fringe knot]

First-Last Name

[warped gate]

First-Last name, however dependant on language

[paper spade]

Last-first so it's more professional

Also I had no idea this channel exists and the actual dev is in here that's cool

[paper spade]

Yo can you put this in the wishlist? So ppl can upvote and show the devs "hey this is a good idea pls make this"

[thin shell]

You're right, I'm going to make a post in the wishlist. It's a subject that is important to me.

[latent plaza]

Last name first name idea is awesome

[obtuse cove]

I think we should also have an option to choose so

[finite wyvern]

to answer the question: first-last for Europe and the Americas please!

[paper spade]

I'm Europe and prefer last-first

[finite wyvern]

I'm now sold on the idea of a "toggle switch" between first-last and last-first

[noble rampart]

Giving players the opportunity to choose, when possible, is always the correct solution. (In my opinion)

The only thing to be mindful of when making these sorts of decisions is the importance of a good, simplistic UI, that expands into options as needed. Presenting the player with too many options all at once can overwhelm them, and make them feel confused. Confusion is often the enemy of fun.

Tl;dr - More Options = Always Better If Presented Concisely and Simplistically

[chilly oxide]

Simply put, Excellent solution!

[sterile tundra]

Why not just let us enable the option? I would like to play in English but still have the names be in Korean order. Why not put it as a toggle in the options?

[blissful rapids]

Honestly, I think players from different countries will prefer different things so maybe there could be a toggle in the settings to decide if the first displayed name would be the first name or the family name. Having an option for middle names and/or nicknames would also be interesting.

[modern grail]

i think we could have an option in the game setting to choose between first-last name and last-first name in each city! it would be better! i want to play in Dowon, but i dont speak any korean so the language option is not good for me, and im sure more people agree with me! it would be so cool if we had an option of each city in the settings!!
I want to thank the devs for sharing all this with us. it surealy means a lot to all of us!

[long epoch]

Hey I don't know if this is hard to make or understand. But my idea is that next to the name input in making a zoi would be a switch button. You could switch if it's 'first - last' or 'last - first' Incase you play in English but want a zoi from Korea to use this instead. When empty the name spaces could say "first" and "last" to show how they are previously set before pressing the switch or putting in the name. (If it's too hard to understand I mean the text that usually says "write message here..." Or something. It would be different on different characters and the npcs name order could be seen on like a character profile or something.

[long epoch]

I just wrote this idea here. I think the best choice would be it being a character creator feature.

[trim wolf]

I dont mind i just hope we can change the name of our babies when they are born 🙂

[bold hazel]

I prefer last name first name, but i sadly can only read English.... I'd prefer an option being added to choose which name order we want, instead of it being based on language settings.
ex:
name order:
Option 1: First-Last (Soojin Shin)
Option 2: Last-First (Shin Soojin)

[livid ferry]

I would like if it could character based, so that each character has an option for the format of their name. I know that where I live in the US we are very familiar with the fact that other countries list their names in reverse from the way we do. I would rather see a, Kim Hyungjun, in my neighborhood, and still be able to use a fist-last for other charaters in the game depending on where they are from. 🙂

[fringe knot]

Name - Surname

[tribal crescent]

that's a really good idea 😊

[foggy dawn]

Let that be optional

[hot locust]

I like this, but maybe a swap order button in the CAZ or settings since some people might want it swapped anyway

[austere fossil]

Maybe it would be good if you choose if your zoi is "eastern" or "westener" as part of their personality in the zoi creator. This could affect their name order, if they prefere to sit on the floor or on furniture, if they use chopstiks or knife and fork, if they have a harder time befrending people of another age group, etc

[gaunt holly]

Well for me it would be first name, last name. I do also love the idea of a nickname as I saw mentioned here. Also how about middle name? I like using my full name.

[slim shadow]

Name order: 'First-last' or 'last-first'?

[lyric rapids]

I’m Angela Coop but I don’t care if I’m Coop Angela. I just gotta adapt

[craggy jay]

In Spain we use first the name + midddle name (if you have) and surnames first the father's one and second mothers' one