▫️Horizon: Zero Dawn Remaster/Forbidden West

[thick salmon]

That first image indicates extreme stuttering right?

[fringe agate]

yeah, look at the frametime sausages in the presentmon graph

[thick salmon]

"Frametime sausage" should be a new term at Digitial Foundry XD

[fringe agate]

xD

looks like it right?

[thick salmon]

I see something is indeed askew here, seems indeed VRAM management related, but in what way exactly is not 100% clear

Whatever it is, hopefully Nixxes will look into it 🙂

@fringe agate I assume you have your GPU-drivers fully up-to-date right? Just to rule out one more variable

[fringe agate]

this should be about the same angle

the fps difference is me enabling hags,

hags seems to decrese fps

but I like MPOs

[thick salmon]

Should be enabled by default on Windows 11

[fringe agate]

yeotherwise the game would bully me about being not up to date

[thick salmon]

As it should

[fringe agate]

ye I disabled it to test someones claims that it increased fps

and it did

[thick salmon]

Not gonna step in that rabbit hole too haha

[fringe agate]

well, you can trust me on this one, disabling hags increases fps by about 10-20% depending on the scene

[celest nest]

just download more vram

[fringe agate]

but it's too big of a sacrifice

[fringe agate]

https://tenor.com/view/ohhh-duh-why-didnt-i-think-of-that-gif-21849807

[pallid hawk]

Frame gen won't work then i think

[celest nest]

yeah framegen requires hags no?

[fringe agate]

imagine paying nvidia money

but yeah, no framegen but I can only use the nukem mod

which has its own issues

because it doesn't work with upscaling

why? idk

[celest nest]

also does forcing rebar actually do things or is it snake oil again

[fringe agate]

for me it seems snake oil

tried it multiple times, no difference in my test scene

but maybe somewhere else it makes a difference

[pallid hawk]

I tried this by editing profile. It relieves ram usage and increases vram usage

Nearing it full

[fringe agate]

well, the regressions are there regardless

[celest nest]

so thats the opposite of what you want

[pallid hawk]

Enabling rbar should reduce vram usage?

[celest nest]

no idk, i mean in this case you didn't want that

[thick salmon]

Call me a huge cynic and negative person, but I don't work often from a trust-me-bro guarantee. Sorry if that makes our conversation uncomfortable.

[fringe agate]

Np xD

It's just that trusting me on this is up to you, I don't feel like justifying it rn

I was also sceptical, which is why I tested it and it seems to increase fps

[broken condor]

Not necessarily. Many data structures become more inefficient over time the more stuff you put into them.
A linear search on something with only 8 items in it is for all intents and purposes going to finish just as quickly as a binary search would.
But if you expand that to thousands of items, even if none of those items are in the list superfluously (i.e. nothing has leaked), binary's orders of magnitude faster.
Stuff just gets slower over time in computers 🙂

[pallid hawk]

Then devs should implement better data structure suitable to the situation. Or implement a garbage collection upon the generic data structure. This is the solution that should be. And not to tell to "buy a better gpu, lower settings and resolution" like some guys do here when the gpu chip clearly has the graphics horsepower to push those frames. Its Just handicapped by puny vram

[novel storm]

Just fix it

Ezpz

[pallid hawk]

some guys do here

And now I don't want to start any war here. Peace 🕊️

[novel storm]

Things like fragmentation are hard problems to solve. Should they do their best to make it as good as possible? Of course. But it's not all malice or laziness lol

Ratchet had issues where VRAM usage would baloon after repeated settings changes, especially DLSS changes. I wouldn't be surprised if this had similar issues.

[thick salmon]

Haha, as is your good right of course. Sorry for being a bit stiff regarding this.

[pallid hawk]

This is exactly what happens to HFW. Nixxes should fix their ports.

Unfortunately the issue affects greatly upto a point only in 8gb and less GPUs.

And only slightly to none on better vram GPUs, in which those users keep saying "my GPU doesn't have it. Its your GPU, buy a better GPU". And i repeat again, this doesn't mean game doesn't have any issues.

[broken condor]

That's kind of funny given their response to many graphics setting changes is to completely destroy the SwapChain and its DXGI factory.
They like to teardown everything and start over in cases where that's not even necessary.
Then again, that behavior itself can be the source of problems if stuff doesn't teardown cleanly. Then you just have leaked resources that hopefully get paged to RAM.

[pallid hawk]

You said had. So nixxess fixed this for ratchet clank?

[novel storm]

No, it's still present in Ratchet

[pallid hawk]

Oh God no.

That means they gonna do same for HFW

[novel storm]

It lead to fun situations like this

Admittedly this was me switching DLSS presets for a couple minutes, but yeah

[pallid hawk]

And the internet people praise nixxess for their ports. When in reality it has these unearthed to public problems

[thick salmon]

Could be them doing the teardowns to try to make sure nothing goes wrong, but then the teardown-process has to go well.

[pallid hawk]

Atleast iron galaxy ports did fixed their issues with tlou. Didn't they?

[thick salmon]

Lets not jump to conclusions here, especially because R&C still has active Steam Depot activity for the last around 6 months, so it is obviously gonna get at least one more update.

[novel storm]

We know it's gonna get FSR3.1

But that's about it

[thick salmon]

Most issues were fixed, but also Digital Foundry repeatedly said it still does things much too asynchronously, causing data-streaming to cause FPS drops and thus limiting performance.

[thick salmon]

That's the only thing we know of, but there could be much more in the pipeline, we simply don't know.

[pallid hawk]

Hmm. Then i think no dev skill can port a ps title perfectly fine to PC platform

[broken condor]

I imagine they'll putz around with that game forever as a means of benchmarking GPU decompression and deciding whether to pack assets for future titles using GDeflate or lzma.

[thick salmon]

Porting of a console-exclusive is a very very complex progress... don't underestimate it and blindly contribute a port's issue to a lack of skill haha. And to be honest, almost every PC-port has some issues to some extend. But as Nixxes does quite many as of late, a pattern of issues might reveal itself.

But Nixxes have shown to update their games for a long time post-release, so here is to hoping that these issues are fixed in the future

But have to agree, I think that Nixxes's ports are incredibly good, but certainly not perfect

[fringe agate]

Hehe no problem, am also always very skeptical of others their claims. It's a good mentality with randoms on the internet.

[fringe agate]

I still think that the death stranding port for pc was top notch.

Didn't encounter a single flaw

Only thing I would've liked was a sharpening slider with CAS. Because the default resolve was a bit soft.

[unreal niche]

They did have issues with DLSS 2 on release

[topaz horizon]

Wasnt it that on release DLSS was fine but a later patch that up'd the version made it bad

and they never changed it

[unreal niche]

Idk I just remember stuff like this

https://youtu.be/Iau8QccRNp8?feature=shared

[topaz horizon]

Yeah I know, I changed the DLL and it fixed it

[unreal niche]

Ya it’s working fine now

And there’s directors cut

[tulip canopy]

I've heard you should use 2.5.1 for pre 3.1 dlss games

Apparently 3.1.1 can cause some extra visual issues

[fringe agate]

I played it back when I had a 1070ti and it was during that game when I managed to snipe a 6800xt. Before I sold it for a 3080. So I never had the chance to run into those issues

But tbh, dlss wasn't needed for that game

More "neccesary"

[fresh hinge]

can you run both the HDR fix and FSR3 mod?

Edit: Installed it. Testing

[fresh hinge]

icky. smear city

[novel storm]

You don't need the HDR fix anymore, they fixed it.

[fresh hinge]

Yep

[pallid hawk]

Does the fsr3 mod work without UI flicker

I tried and it always flicker

[fresh hinge]

Didn’t notice. More bothered by the smearing on an oled, looked disgusting

[rich lark]

Has anyone noticed bright flashes on Utaru NPC outfits?

[weary ridge]

bright flashes? oh no dlss bloom issue strikes again?

[rich lark]

Specific parts of some characters model give out distracting bright flashes. If you turn down shadows to very low you can see exactly which bits are causing it.

I'm not sure, this happens even with AA off.

[weary ridge]

turn off dlss/fsr and check it again

[weary ridge]

it happens with upscaling disabled? then thats good news, maybe just a bug then

[rich lark]

Yeah, it happens with all upscaling, AA, dynamic res, Frame Gen, Reflex off.

I was worried about an unstable GPU so I wanted to check stuff out. The first playthrough I found on youtube shows the same effect in the same scenes.

[weary ridge]

PC playthrough?

[rich lark]

Yep, on a 4090

This is what it looks like with shadows off

And this is what it looks like with shadows maxed.

[weary ridge]

that looks bad

[celest nest]

rare glitch yea

[rich lark]

I spent an hour now diagnosing it and yeah, has to be the game. Tried everything and nothing changes it.

It sure seems to be tied to the shadows setting somehow.

[tawdry delta]

Riverhymn is like by far the most noticeable HDR area in the game imo btw

some regular google image

to give idea

also the desert location when you get neon holograms at night is pretty cool

[fringe agate]

Bloom, turn it off, no more flashes.

[rich lark]

Sadly, it's not bloom. It sounds like it makes sense but turning bloom off only lessens the glowyness of the flashing slightly. It just disables bloom from the glitch.

[fringe agate]

yeah the artifacts will still be there, just that they won't be blooming

which is way more distracting

[rich lark]

It probably alleviates it a lot in some scenes, but in my test scene (Meeting in Plainsong) it only had a very slight effect.

Bloom might also hurt it a lot more with lower resolutions or DLSS.

[granite bough]

https://x.com/nixxessoftware/status/1775845505345474570?s=46&t=0OSlMse8iNalmjNjPo8BdA

Nixxes Software (@NixxesSoftware) on X

Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition 1.1.47.0 Release Notes

Twitter · Apr 4, 2024, 11:18 AM

[celest nest]

Added HUD Widescreen Scale options to the settings menu.

yesss

HDR settings have been moved to the display menu to allow live viewing of changes.
they gave up on getting the UI to work correctly? 😄 can't blame them

Fixed visual issues with save previews when HDR is enabled.
@broken condor haha

[granite bough]

There is sill no Reflex fix

[celest nest]

lol proper ultrawide hud feels so weird now

[thick salmon]

What is wrong with it atm?

[granite bough]

Frametime is bad and game fell not smooth

[thick salmon]

Isn't that just caused by hitting a GPU limitation? Leaving not enough headroom for FG to function properly?

As it is also a very graphics intensive game from my testing

[celest nest]

i'm really not seeing the framegen/reflex issue

[thick salmon]

So, could indeed not be an actual issue with the game, but just how FG functions not well in any game when starved of GPU resources

For reflex counts the same

[thick salmon]

To my knowledge

[hidden urchin]

Framegen has been a necessity for me for whatever reason on 4070ti, gets me up from 80 to 110ish everyone once in a while

[broken condor]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with either that I know of.
Low Latency + Boost was overly aggressive, but NV fixed that in a driver patch.

[celest nest]

wow the preview screenshots are awful 😂

[lavish vessel]

It happens even without FG, the camera motion simply isn't smooth with reflex, at least it was, haven't tried the latest patch

[celest nest]

it is smooth to me

either that or i went senile. because i certainly know what that means and seen that happen in games

[fringe agate]

check long distances, when you turn your camera

something is really wrong

[celest nest]

they really look normal

[lavish vessel]

Might be something system specific then, but I saw a bunch of folks reporting it, so I know I'm not alone at least

[hidden urchin]

Curious if using ReBar is helpful or not in those type of situations, if it’s LOD/asset loading, possibly direct storage too would be helpful

[thick salmon]

I'll pick that second option 😋

[thick salmon]

I see a bunch of people reporting that with every game it releases with

[thick salmon]

Reflex doesn't have anything to do with that to my knowledge

[hidden urchin]

ReBar is a bit different than reflex from what I thought but I’m quite new to all this stuff. Thought reflex was only for “controller lag” if you will. ReBar was only introduced in 3 series cards was thinking others don’t have the feature which might be causing LOD issues

_ Resizable BAR is an optional PCI Express interface technology. As you move through a world in a game, GPU memory (VRAM) constantly transfers textures, shaders and geometry via many small CPU to GPU transfers._

[lavish vessel]

This is really the first time I have a problem with reflex causing judder myself

[thick salmon]

Likely caused by hitting a limitation somewhere

Likely lowering settings resolves the issue

[celest nest]

I think @wooden oracle mentioned somewhere that it looked like nixxes did something weird/wrong

[granite bough]

look how not stable is frametime when I turn on Reflex

but when I turn on DLSS FG its back to be stable lol

I add dlss SR and FG 3.7.0

[celest nest]

tbf i did not check any graphs, just talking about how it feels ingame

it does feel/look smooth

[pallid hawk]

I think they still need to implement aggressive vram management for 8gb vram and lower if using high textures.

Current vram usage is generic and offloads to system ram for no reason.

[lavish vessel]

Yeah, the frame graph itself doesn't really mean anything

[thick salmon]

I think it is wise honestly not to use high textures anymore in the newest games while working with only 8 GB VRAM

[grand yacht]

in the new driver

[thick salmon]

Nice, maybe a slight performance boost

[celest nest]

oh a new driver

[wooden oracle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1186021762186625115/1222505974347202641/image.png?ex=661fb0e9&is=660d3be9&hm=fd4f5f5f8f55760a8ee7ef5f0f306ee6e52950e18a1c5e80147c61fa8dfc1d75&

enabling reflex with frame generation causes massive stalls. haven't bothered figuring out why that is

afaik it goes away if your cpu is able to keep pace with your gpu (frame time nearly equal). don't have a way to check though

[thick salmon]

Isn't that a known limitation of Reflex?

Doing something takes resources. If you don't reserve a tiny bit of resources for FG or Reflex (not done by Nvidia to my knowledge), it causes issues if the resource you take it from is depleted

[wooden oracle]

yes, but for one reason or another, it seems to break frame generation pacing as well

[celest nest]

afaik it goes away if your cpu is able to keep pace with your gpu
might be why i'm not seeing the issue

[thick salmon]

See comment above, same reason from my suspicion

[wooden oracle]

there is no fighting for resources in my screenshot

the gpu goes completely idle

[thick salmon]

Because it is not an HDR-image 😉

[thick salmon]

Isn't that because you minimized the game and this is one of the games that might be smart enough to stop rendering if it is not in view/focus?

[pallid hawk]

That's why fg mod doesn't work with this game?

[wooden oracle]

no, this was all recorded walking ingame

[celest nest]

pretty sure nukem knows what hes doing lol

[thick salmon]

True, sorry for asking the obvious

[wooden oracle]

it's not a problem with any mod. it's the game. you can observe this on rtx 4000 cards to some degree

[thick salmon]

You sure it is not a general limitation of Reflex?

[wooden oracle]

rexflex attempts to minimize latency by reducing backpressure, i.e. no queued frames. what's happening here is that no work (even FG?) gets queued at all on the cpu side, leaving the gpu idle for milliseconds at a time

and no work gets queued because of nvapi_d3d_sleep shown in the graph - it's not nvidia's fault - however timing is wrong

it could be due to weird fence/signal patterns...I haven't bothered to check it out

I want to say "lol just dont be cpu bound" except it doesn't explain the FG pacing issues. anyone know if spiderman had similar behavior?

[pallid hawk]

I saw someone explaining that nixxess ports have vram budget assigning lower than total vram capacity and this causes to system ram usage resulting drops

Nixxes ports does have common issues

[granite bough]

Could you try add newest dlss 3.7.0 for SR and FG + mod for FG?

And check the graf?

[wooden oracle]

won't make a difference here. it's reflex related

[granite bough]

When I play with reflex and FG it’s fine on frametime graf, I have also newst driver plus 1.1 patch

[rich lark]

I've gotten the jittery camera when reflex is on since launch as well.

Not even boost, just reflex on with or without framegen and it's just not smooth.

[wary ridge]

Reflex, and especially reflex+framegen, are very much so busted in this game. The camera pan judder is insane. Just disable reflex fully, disable framegen, add the "-noStreamline" launch option and set dynamic resolution with framerate target of choice (I find 105 to be perfect for me). Works marvelously like that.

But man, advertising reflex and framegen in this title so hard, and then delivering the most busted implementation of them all to date... Yeah, takes some guts I'd say 😄

[rich lark]

I've just been running every scaler and dynamic res off with DLAA and letting VRR fool me.

[weary ridge]

Same issue on my PC, turning off reflex fixes all the weird frametime spikes

[pallid hawk]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1817070/announcements/detail/3299474214664311943

[celest nest]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/s/Aqazwkn1ev hfw reflex is listed as an open issue

[granite bough]

"Reflex is set to “On + Boost” but only this

this set your max GPU usage at 85%

[kindred berry]

We have also updated AMD FSR to version 2.1.1 and will be adding NVIDIA DLSS 3 in a future patch soon.

The game already has frame gen what?

[wooden oracle]

POSTED
Thu, October 6, 2022

[thick salmon]

Getting off-topic, but yeah: https://steamcommunity.com/games/1817070/announcements/detail/3543795218882882296?snr=2___ For like 1.5 years... 😂

With the v.2.1012.0.0 patch from October last year, the DLSS (FG and SR) implementation was updated even to 3.5.0.0. Not even mentioned in the changelog haha. https://steamdb.info/patchnotes/12423814/

[kindred berry]

Oh some random posted it weird

[tidal escarp]

Guys is HDR fixed on update v1.0.43.0?

[tulip canopy]

yes

[tidal escarp]

Tnx

[sonic pawn]

What does adding the “no streamline option” do?

[thick salmon]

No Nvidia streamline I assume.

Is the system from Nvidia for Devs to easily implement different upscaling solutions. Don't know how disabling that helps here in any way... Would advise against it.

[broken condor]

Turns off the Streamline interposer, which is needed for Frame Generation.

They have standalone implementations of all the upscaling algorithms, so the only reason Nixxes uses Streamline is for Frame Generation, and it's among the worst integrations of Streamline that I've come across.

[wooden oracle]

the streamline integration probably isn't at fault. hfw's engine kind of relies on 2 frames being in flight

[rich lark]

I wonder how this stuff would behave in Death Stranding then.

[wooden oracle]

I'd have to go and check if the streaming system works similarly. chances are, no

[granite bough]

Did you try 3.7.0? The say streamline is improved

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-releases-streamline-2-4-0-sdk-and-dlss-3-7-0

[thick salmon]

Don't think that replacing the DLSS DLL will implement a whole new Streamline version and to my knowledge you can't just replace the Streamline DLLs to take advantage of their new fixes/features.

It likely needs the developer to improve the actual implementation of the SDK itself.

[celest nest]

it's not about streamline dlls tho

just the 3.7.0 dlss dll

[thick salmon]

Indeed, it is about the way Nixxes implemented Streamline

[celest nest]

oh god i didnt notice which thread we're in sorry

i thought this was just about the new dlss lmao

on topic: some of the internal fixes could work if you just replace the streamline dll, but the issue is with the implementation not streamline itself

[thick salmon]

Malibu seemed to suggest that replacing the DLSS DLL improved/updated the Streamline integration in the game....

[thick salmon]

Exactly

[broken condor]

It is. They destroy the SwapChain and create a new factory and SwapChain every time you change graphics settings.
That doesn't work with Streamline because it's still holding references to the original SwapChain on the old factory and you can't create a new SwapChain for a window in D3D12 without the original one fully being destroyed first 😕

If they're going to do this, with Streamline screwing factories up and all, they need to completely destroy their window too.

[wooden oracle]

you're saying SL holds references behind the scenes and the game doesn't account for this obscure edge case? sounds like an issue with streamline's implementation rather than how nixxes integrated it

[kindred berry]

implementation skill issue

[pallid hawk]

How to force dlss preset E without using dlsstweaks, as its conflicting with FG mod.

[lavish vessel]

You can force it globally with NV Inspector

https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/781?tab=files

[pallid hawk]

Thanks

[pallid hawk]

Can also per game?

[lavish vessel]

Only globally afaik

[broken condor]

Yes, that's how the interposer works.
You'd have to wait for the interposer's generated frames to clear the compute queue and be presented to the screen before trying to destroy the SwapChain, but Nixxes doesn't do that.

Normally it wouldn't be a problem, because Streamline would pass you back the same SwapChain you're trying to destroy.
But they take it one step too far and destroy the factory that Streamline has wrapping all this stuff.

[sonic pawn]

What does preset E do for the game?

[pallid hawk]

Less shimmering and ghosting

[weary ridge]

Preset C is very very similar

[sonic pawn]

Got it.

Has anyone notice that the in-game compass and some hud elements seem to be capped at 30 or 60fps? It’s so annoying

[grand yacht]

Very jarring when games do this, many do it. Starfield was a terrible example early on, 30 FPS UI.

[sonic pawn]

Yeah, thankfully starfield has mods for almost everything

[thick salmon]

Didn't even notice it, but hopefully it gets fixed then. I assume it is then animating at 60 as the PS5 supports that.

[sonic pawn]

I believe it’s the same frame rate on both. Maybe 60, but on pc is more noticeable if you’re on 120+

[thick salmon]

Then 60 is likely indeed

[sonic pawn]

Yeah. It runs at 60-80fps on the ps5. Honestly I’m impressed that that game runs so well on the ps5 with those frame rates.

[thick salmon]

Same, but with quite reduced image quality of course

On pc you get the best experience 😋

[sonic pawn]

No, not really. It looks exactly like on pc. I was surprised too. And some details are better on the ps5, very minor.

[thick salmon]

DF looked at it and saw a bump in image quality

Compared to performance mode on PS5

[sonic pawn]

I believe they only mentioned anisotropic filter as the only visible difference and slightly better anti aliasing. Now for hair, they said it’s better on the ps5

[fringe agate]

I found it's a bit more blurry in movement

[thick salmon]

Compared to performance mode

[thick salmon]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2420110/view/4199118427682767426

[sonic pawn]

Yes, so almost no difference. Even on perfomance mode. Only noticeable difference are features like dlss and higher frame rate

[thick salmon]

I meant image clarity mainly. And some Alpha effects resolution differences

So not any other real visual differences

So due to drs

So, just due to resolution

So, maybe doesn't really count

[sonic pawn]

If I’m not mistaken, on the ps5 quality mode runs at 4k, and perfomance ranges from 1440p and 1800p. It’s pretty high already. I don’t think that in regular play, no one can notice the difference. And it get 60-80fps. It’s pretty impressive.

[thick salmon]

Might be true, opinion territory anyways

But yeah, by default the game already looks great

Even on PS4

[sonic pawn]

Yeah. It’s definitely ahead of the curve cause other games look substantially worse. Tried hogwarts legacy on the ps5 and it’s… BAD

[thick salmon]

Unreal Engine magic 😂

[topaz horizon]

guerrilla games talented devs yup

good to know they can make the most out of their own engine

[pallid hawk]

Yet they can't implement dlss properly

[unreal niche]

Nixxes did that

[pallid hawk]

Another then, they can't implement optimal memory management

Previous ports r&c, Spiderman still not fixed.

[lavish vessel]

It's optimal as you can get on PC, you either use system memory when running out of VRAM, or get massive stutters/crashes instead

[pallid hawk]

It's optimal as you can get

That's a lame excuse for not optimising for all PC hardware combination.

[lavish vessel]

That's literały impossible to do

We are talking about dozens of thousands of variations

[pallid hawk]

I mean it shouldn't be hard. Just load and offload more aggressively for low vram gpus. Disk reading and IO getting high is the disadvantage. And maybe some asset pop ins. Id take all that over tanking to 20fps and lowering texture as a solution 🤷‍♂️

[lavish vessel]

If it's so simple, why doesn't everyone do it? Or maybe 8gb of VRAM is simply not enough for the games designed for 16 gb machines?

[pallid hawk]

Lol every others does it. Its only nixxess ports

8gb isn't enough statement is dumb my brother

Just listen to this

Read this

[lavish vessel]

For example?

8 gb has been an issue for almost every single AAA port that come out in the last couple of years

Any UE4 game? Not enough. Dead Space remake? Not enough. Resident Evil 4? Not enough

The last of us? Not enough

I can't remember last game that would run fine on 8gb cards tbh

[pallid hawk]

A game is said to be not enough for a said vram 8gb vram in this case, if it gives a fps value (low fps to play smoothly as its not enough. Obvious. ) irrespective of whether it was running on or just started or restarted.

It gives a fps particular value for a particular card for a particular setting and all other temperature... etc is constant.

[pallid hawk]

Yes. Those games give a constant value fps which is too low to play. Hence not enough.

A restart isn't going to fix fps for those games

But for HFW a restart fixes the fps drop for a time until it comes again.

Show me another game with low fps for 8gb cards and a restart fixes it. Then we can talk.

[lavish vessel]

Yeah because HFW doesn't saturate the whole VRAM at the start

That doest mean there is a memory leak, it's just the game filling memory gradually

[pallid hawk]

I'm not addressing it as a memory leak.

[royal aurora]

Its not a memory leak, it doesnt keep on filling the vram till its full

Bf1 had a memory leak

[pallid hawk]

But still, show me another game that gradually fills memory and a restart fixes it.

[pallid hawk]

Proof please

And a restart fixes it?

[royal aurora]

No, had the use a tool ro clean the standby memory

Since it kept filling up ram

Game is old af tho, haven't played in ages

[lavish vessel]

Dude, restart "fixes it" because it cleans up memory, then you play it again and and it fills up vram again
It's an expected behavour, not a bug

[royal aurora]

Im topping out at around 11-12 at 4k with max settings and quality dlss with fg, if it was a leak it would fill all 24gb of it

Think its people trying to play with max textures on limited vram cards

Well, low vram cards

[pallid hawk]

That's why i keep telling you, show me a game that does like this way.

[royal aurora]

Just enable nvidia shader cache lol

Jk

[pallid hawk]

If it's only nixxess ports that does this, why are y'all keep telling its not an issue.

Its their sub optimal memory management.

[pallid hawk]

Yo. I didn't term it as a leak. Nor did tell it keeps filling. So stop with this memory leak term.

[lavish vessel]

https://youtu.be/MvQl7EDPRC4?t=1107

[royal aurora]

Think i missed the not part then, nvm

[lavish vessel]

Except in case of DSR it's a bug caused by the dynamic resolution

That's just how the modern asset streaming systems work, depending on quantity/quality of assets it increases and decreases VRAM utilization

One part of the game might work fine while other will not

Again, the difference with HFW is that if fills up VRAM gradually instead of flushing assets all at once, THAT'S A GOOD THING, that's how the games should do it, otherwise you get traversal stutter

Memory management isn't inefficient, you simply don't have enough memory for the texture quality/resolution you want to use

[pallid hawk]

Bug shown here is Changing graphics settings brings a "lower than expected" performance drop and a restart fixes it.

Its told as lower than expected and not massive like HFW does. Also DF didn't show how much of a impact. So it must be a low impact one.

Can't relate HFW to this

[pallid hawk]

How's that a good thing. You have to flush assets if its unused and stream new ones. Traversal stutter happens when this streaming and flushing isn't fast enough.

[lavish vessel]

Except when it drops to 8 fps like in a timestamp that I linked that you seem to ignore

[pallid hawk]

And for that is what I meant aggressive memory management. Not because vram is low

[lavish vessel]

But whatever, you seem convinced that 8gb of VRAM is enough for everything, no point to continue this convo

[pallid hawk]

I saw that. It didn't require a restart to fix. It fixed itself flushing memory by itself. That's is what actually needed for HFW.

[pallid hawk]

Convinced by proof that it's real.

Whereas you didn't prove anything to back your statement

Dead space video you just linked shows what needs to be done to fix it lol.

Until you show another game exactly what hfw does, your statement is pointless

I have played DD2 on my 3070 and it runs like shit (because the game is shit optimised).
.
CP2077 max ray tracing settings runs like shit because 3070 both processing power and vram isn't enough. I admit.
.
Alan wake 2 max settings. Same. 3070 isn't enough for ultra texture settings.
.
Tried ARK new ue5 game. Same situation 8gb isn't enough.

I can go on for older games too.

None. Literally no game i have played fixed a low fps due to vram limitation after a restart.

I guess that's enough for you.
Imma stop now.

[thick salmon]

@pallid hawk you made the initial statements so the burden of proof lies with you.

And @lavish vessel statements sound true to my knowledge. So, please take that at least into consideration. Because you state your suspicions as absolute fact

But again, anyone has anything further to add, do that in #💬chat and not here....

[sonic pawn]

Still a little iffy yeah. I found the optimal settings for me. Frame gen plus dlaa at native 4k. If I include dlss frame gen looks worse and not enough fps to warrant it.

[unreal niche]

to be fair the last of us p1 did end up getting fixed for 8gb gpus

but ya 8gb GPUs are gonna need to lower textures nowadays

consoles have 16gb of total ram and I imagine games aren't gonna need 8 whole gbs just for non vram usage

so 8gb vram is basically under the baseline for a game built with ps5 in mind like horizon

does vram scale well if you lower textures?

the game was able to run on ps4, albeit with much lower fidelity

the game doesn't even have rt though so I don't think it should require all that much vram

I heard frame gen can require a lot more vram in some cases though

[thick salmon]

The geometric, effects and texture fidelity are all very high though, probably explaining the VRAM need

[unreal niche]

does the game scale down to ps4 settings?

[thick salmon]

DF said it actually didn't seem to do that if I remember correctly, but that Nixxes implemented their own presets

But again, not absolutely sure as I can't easily find the timestamp

[unreal niche]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6IT9vYIkAQ

these settings are for 3070

@ 1440p

he says medium textures for 8gb gpus

in description

[thick salmon]

Let me know when you find the timestamp

[unreal niche]

Optimised Settings:
Texture Quality: High (Medium for 8GB GPUs on resolutions higher than 1440p)
Texture Filtering: 16x
Shadow Quality: High
Depth of Field: High
Level of Detail: High
Terrain Quality: High or Very High
Crowd Quality: High
Hair Quality: High
Ambient Occlusion: SSAO
Screen-Space Reflections: High
Water Quality: High
Cloud Quality: Very High
Translucency: Default
Parallax Occlusion Mapping: On

thats the description

[thick salmon]

Regarding if it being able to reduce to PS4-like settings

[unreal niche]

i dont see any mention of ps4 in the transcript

too lazy to watch the entire video

i dont think they have ps4 settings on pc

i recall the ps4 version had some pretty big changes

[thick salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUWNpOHi3kA

[unreal niche]

the intro was prerendered on ps4

[thick salmon]

Could also be in that video

[thick salmon]

This is a condensed version of the original video though

[unreal niche]

no mention of ps4 in the transcript

[thick salmon]

Indeed, only on PS5 and PC is it rendered in real-time

[thick salmon]

Could also be under "last-gen" or something

[unreal niche]

not seeing that either

@pallid hawk

i'd try these settings

#1220402379321770027 message

[lavish vessel]

No, port is based on PS5 version, replicating PS4 settings is impossible
Alex tried to do so for Deck but failed

[thick salmon]

Have the timestamp of a video of DF of him talking about that?

I remember it too, but can't find it back quickly

[lavish vessel]

https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=641

[thick salmon]

10:40 is the more exact timestamp in that video where it is mentioned

[lavish vessel]

Already edidted

[wooden oracle]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/2420110/announcements/detail/4173223363960212450

they fixed the asset streaming bug with reflex enabled

[celest nest]

ooh

also

Improvements to texture streaming to reduce memory usage and improve quality.

@pallid hawk

[pallid hawk]

Ooh

Testing time

Lets see if my 3070 can take high preset for a long time

[lavish vessel]

"Improved the visual quality of dust." How abut letting me turn it off dammit

BTW someone modded out hero lighting
https://www.nexusmods.com/horizonforbiddenwest/mods/63?tab=description

[topaz horizon]

Good mod that

[lavish vessel]

"Some dark areas, these can bug out with the hero lighting toggled off, seen in last screenshot. Disabling [subsurface scattering] fixes this mostly, though the eyebrows and eyelashes still glow a bit I couldn't get that fixed. Should be pretty rare hopefully but if in an area with this issue you can use these."

[thick salmon]

I highly doubt they will add that option if the PS5 version never supported it

[thick salmon]

Hopefully they keep it updated to keep compatibility with newer updates of the game

[thick salmon]

And Resolved performance regression when enabling NVIDA Reflex On+Boost.

[fringe agate]

that's extremely cursed, I thought I was looking at Balthazar Gelt from warhammer for a moment

[rich lark]

I remember this bug being in the first game. This would happen in dark areas in some indoor areas.

Whoops, sorry for the @

[sonic pawn]

The game still has some weird camera judder in certain areas. Idk if it’s something on my end or if it’s the game

[wary ridge]

It's not just you. The same thing was happening with the first game, and then, after like 10 patches, it was magically gone. Hope this happens with this one too, but given they've made the same mistake again, AND are taking this long to notice and fix it, well...

Thing is that most people probably don't notice, as it is subtle after you've properly framecapped the game. But yeah, sometimes it does judder, even when in-game reflex is fully off.

[sonic pawn]

Indeed. Capping at 70 mostly solved it for me. It’s just sad that i can’t play at 120hz because my gpu can handle it.

[rich lark]

Noticed some new camera judder hitting me randomly after the newest patch, thought it was just the area I was in.

Then It hit me again in the Base. Toggled to exclusive fullscreen and it was gone. Huh.

[sonic pawn]

It happens to me in areas with lots of people, so camps and settlements. Exusive full screen or not. Capping at 60hz makes it better but it’s still worse than the ps5 version which is buttery smooth.

[fringe agate]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220414721342312589/1234275458703425627/image.png?ex=6630ccd9&is=662f7b59&hm=a93925db5b0d3d13687046af0acae0950e256e775c1715c1bab0828e8a497352&

you mean something like this?

[fringe agate]

exclusive fullscreen doesn't exist and is just mislabeled borderless

[fringe agate]

yeah I noticed capping far below what your pc is capable of is a bandaid to fix the stutter

like, here you can see me hitting 90, while typical performance is between 80 and 110. but to get rid of the stutter I need to cap at 65 to also have no stutter in heavy areas

[rich lark]

Good to know. I'm not sure my stutter is the same as yours, I can reliably make mine go away by changing screen modes back and forth.

[fringe agate]

I'll try, it's probably destorying the swapchain when swapping modes, "cleaning up something"

[rich lark]

Could be some overlay bug for me or something. Never noticed any similar stutter before last session. Might not even return now that I've restarted my PC.

Only saw stutter with FG or reflex before.

[lavish vessel]

That's not entirely true, exclusive fullscreen (in this game) actually changes the output resolution (if set different that your desktop one), borderless changes the 3D render resolution, and then upscales/downscales to the desktop one

[fringe agate]

for the game there is no difference. yes it has more capabilities than normal borderless, but these are still within the borderless type

[sonic pawn]

Hope they fix it soon

[broken condor]

Changes it even if it's set identical to the desktop as well.

You really don't want games ever doing that, the APIs available to change desktop resolution do not allow you to specify color depth or chroma subsampling.
Only the driver control panels allow that. If D3D or any other public API requests a change in refresh or resolution, it's undefined what color format is going to be used.

Many obnoxious games come along and start in Fullscreen mode and set your refresh rate as high as it goes, then you suffer because that refresh rate requires 4:2:0 subsampling, etc.

I think it's unlikely this problem will ever be fixed with API revisions, either.
Microsoft's design direction is toward hardware scaling using overlay planes and dynamic refresh / vrr.
No point in even enumerating the output depth for every combination of resolution and refresh ratre when they don't want you changing the display output.

[rich lark]

Even if it's identical to the desktop? Shit. Now I want to overlay a quick brown fox jumping over a lazy dog to see what happens.

[thick salmon]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2420110/view/4169846932049799888

[fringe agate]

was thinking to myself: there should be a new update coming soon today

framepacing fixes not included

[thick salmon]

Weird, was thinking the exact same. Nixxes is so damn predictable

[thick salmon]

Related to?

[fringe agate]

this, just in general framepacing on some systems is poop and becomes pooper

[thick salmon]

Certain you're not just hitting a CPU-limit or use too high settings on limited VRAM GPU?

Also made sure to update to the most recent Nvidia driver that contains a Reflex-related fix?

[fringe agate]

definitely not cpu

vram could be but am not nearly near the dxgi budget and the pci-e bus is not being hammered either

[fringe agate]

happens on all reflex settings

also off

[thick salmon]

So, you're not near the used amount of VRAM?

With latest Nvidia drivers?

[fringe agate]

haven't tried the latest, am still on the one before that since I didn't see anything interesting in the latest one

[thick salmon]

If you encounter any issue, I would always fully update your GPU-driver cleanly

Because many driver updates from Nvidia also contain some hidden changes sometimes

[sonic pawn]

I also encountered some issues with camera panning. Idk if it’s a frame pacing issue on my side but it’s very distracting.

[thick salmon]

Could it be a camera movement animation issue?

Do you have frame generation enabled?

[sonic pawn]

Yes. But I’ve tested extensively with frame gen on, off, reflex on and off. Frame gen makes it less noticeable. Even capped at 60hz with no upscaling and frame gen I still have the issue, especially in settlements/cities. Plainsong has the worst. And I compared it back and forth with the ps5 version and that version runs smoothly everywhere.

[sonic pawn]

Could be because it only happens when I move the camera fast and it only seems to affect the background, not Aloy or other elements that are close to her.

[thick salmon]

If FG lowers the noticability of the issue, I would expect it to be an animation issue

[sonic pawn]

I’ll try to find the right tools so I can properly document the issue.

[thick salmon]

Keep us posted Luke 🙂

[weary ridge]

Disabling reflex solved the panning stutter issue in my case, but I don't have the game installed atm to test it with the newer driver

but ofc you want reflex for FG

[lavish vessel]

Did someone try SK or RTSS reflex limiter to see if it fixes reflex panning stutter?

[pallid hawk]

No one actually found out why fsr3 mods don't work for this game

Anyone know why ?

[wary ridge]

Yeah, with SK lowlatency limiter, the stutter is still there. Like before, much less noticable if in-game reflex is set to "off". There is no change since the lauch version in regards to this whatsoever.

[sonic pawn]

What refresh rate did you choose?

[weary ridge]

120hz

but I don't use FG

[sonic pawn]

I see. In my gameplay I still found camera stutter especially in large cities, like plainsong and fleet’s ends. I think those were the 2 worse places. Only way I completely eliminated those was to cap the in game 60hz option.

[broken condor]

You need to do more than just turn on the low-latency limiter.
Getting rid of that stutter is going to involve finding a value low enough that you're not oscillating between 0 and 1 frame of latency.
Stable framerates in this game are much lower than you'd expect 😕

I have to run at ~90 FPS to get constant smooth framerate that doesn't irritate the hell out of me 🙂

It can do average 110+ FPS, but it's got visible stutter even if the graph doesn't show it.
That's why the frames of latency counter's so powerful. You can actually quantify WHY there's stutter even though avg framerate looks smooth.

[sonic pawn]

Are you using a controller? I dont seem to see the same judder with mouse and keyboard. But it’s hard to be sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXbS6bcKNP0 this is what it looks like to me.

[weary ridge]

ugh that looks bad

I will reinstall the game to test

[sonic pawn]

That was taken in fleet’s end

[wary ridge]

Yeah, that's actually exactly the value I also cap it at. Any higher, and it judders like crazy. This way it's still visible sometimes, but very rarely.

I actually had to add that "-nostreamline" command line argument AND fully disable the in-game reflex option to acutally get to anything even resembling decent frametimes.

That's acutally why I'm so bummed that their reflex implementation has a knock-on effect on framegen, thus exacerbating that judder to the nth degree. Sad really.

[sonic pawn]

Would you say that adding that line actually changes anything? Or is maybe placebo?

[wary ridge]

One thing is for sure: if one wants to use SK with this game, adding that line will drastically increase compatibility with SK.

[thick salmon]

Placebo effect could be possible here. You see that often on Reddit and Steam where a whole group of users claims that disabling X fixes a certain problem and then DF look at it and it turns out to be simply not true; if a user hears or expects something to help, they will often perceive as it helping haha. Placebo...

[thick salmon]

Because did you test with an overlay on showing you the frametimes? Were the settings between testing with the command line option being on and Reflex being off the absolute same as the other way around?

[sonic pawn]

My thoughts exactly. I’ve tested the game with everything people were talking about. Nothing really fixed it. It’s not terrible so I’m just gonna finish the dlc and come back when or if they fix it. Already sent an official request to PlayStation so we’ll see.

[thick salmon]

Thanks for the testing @sonic pawn

[next kiln]

Are the side quests in this game worth it? Or can I ignore?

because in the first game they were boring as hell

I also find myself bored with the dialogue/story in general in this game compared to the last game

I might just be an old

lol

[unreal niche]

On paper this game seems like it would be better in every way but I got bored of this faster. Maybe I just have lower tolerance for open world slop now that I’m older

I ignored most of the side quests

[grand yacht]

I also ignore all the low-effort side content, I just don't see the gameplay value in it.
In many and most ways the game overall is better than its predecessor with the exception that I'm not in love with how Aloy moves and how long she gets knocked down for, seems excessive!

[next kiln]

Yea this is how I feel too

This game seems to have inherent stutter, even without reflex or frame gen

[unreal niche]

I think Kaldaien said you just need to cap it at a lower framerate and you’ll be good

There’s a frametime graph in SpecialK

[next kiln]

Yea I did. I mean it's smooth enough. Just the graph shows frametime variances if you look at it

but it's fine

[sonic pawn]

Totally worth it. I’ve done 3 playthroughs since it released on the ps5. First time I skipped most side quests because I was eager to know what happened in the main story. This last playthrough I took my time with side quests. Most of them are incredibly meaningful and memorable. They connect dots left open on the main quest. Now, world activities are a mix. My favorites are tall necks and cauldrons (always a tough fight in the end)

Give it a chance. Try it for a while, taking your time with side quests and see how u feel about them

[broken condor]

There is, but it won't do you a ton of good.
You can flatline that graph and still have frame pacing oddities due to render queue issues.

I've had to limit the game to 90 FPS for it to stop oscillating between 0 and 1 queued frames constantly.
I don't know what they did to cause this, it's very unusual.

[wooden oracle]

counterpoint: a lot of side quests in HFW felt unremarkable. even ones involving main characters. they often followed a "visit area X, kill machines at X, return home for some dialogue" formula and I couldn't keep myself interested.

cauldrons on the other hand were my favorites. same for tallnecks, but to a lesser degree. other world activities didn't seem nearly as fleshed out from a storytelling angle compared to HZD which was disappointing. though I haven't played the original in 2 years so maybe it's an unfair comparison.

[fringe agate]

same here

#1220402379321770027 message just look at it

I am starting to suspect it may be cpu related, but gpu load stays high so idk

that's without any fancy stuff, just dlss q and no reflex

[thick salmon]

Nvidia Driver 552.44 (latest) release notes document still note this known issue though: Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition: Lower GPU utilization when Reflex is set to “On + Boost” So, could still be a driver issue maybe as the open issue notes don't always seem to tell the whole story.

[kindred berry]

they said they fixed that in a game update though, probably just forgot to remove it

[fringe agate]

could be an issue from 2 sides

but the real problem i just the base framepacing that the game has

[wooden oracle]

I looked at nsight traces for a little while back during release, mostly out of curiosity. I've been wondering if the (greatly simplified) code below causes odd frame pacing:

begin cpu frame N (N = 11)

  graphics_queue->Wait(streaming_fence, 11); // cannot begin gpu rendering until fence is signaled

  dispatch_streaming_jobs();                                           --- |
                                                                           |
  dispatch_render_jobs();                                                  |
    // graphics_queue->ExecuteCommandLists(...) from multiple threads      |
    //                                                                     | ~10ms
    // even though commands are submitted here, work does not begin until  |
    // the next signal. gpu potentially idle.                              |
  yield_render_jobs();                                                     |
                                                                           |
  yield_streaming_jobs();                                              --- |

  transfer_queue->Signal(streaming_fence, 11); // streaming ops complete; rendering begins on gpu side

end cpu frame N```

when the gpu completed a previous frame's work quicker than the cpu could issue `transfer_queue->Signal`, it ended up idle for several milliseconds, even if render jobs submitted command lists in the meantime.

though I haven't bothered tinkering with hfw after the patches generally fixed stuttering on my system

[fringe agate]

would this show up as a cpu bottleneck in the reflex data?

[wooden oracle]

not necessarily

[thick salmon]

Or the issues is split and both the game and driver play a part in it...

[kindred berry]

Or... hear me out...
they forgot to remove it 😛

Who knows!

[thick salmon]

Honestly suspect it also to be an oversight haha, but who knows... Those little green men are weird 😛

[devout hazel]

Hey guys how is the current state of game ? Should I start the new journey now ?

( ** patch stability,crashes etc ** )

[next kiln]

pretty sure this game generated a weird telemetry log on my game drive

has anyone ever gotten this

reads like a game telemetry log

could be like a crash log?

yea it's HFW. one of the lines is "telemetryhealthpotion used" and "focusmodetriggered"

the fuck

lol

why did it put it on my main game drive and not in the game folder

[fringe agate]

it's okay, better than at launch, still some jank but it depends, some people have no issues, some people do.

[thick salmon]

It has still some wonky performance on 8GB VRAM GPUs, subpar Steam Deck experience and some minor 120+ FPS visual glitches. For the rest some seem to experience some minor frame time spikes. My experience is honestly extremely good with only some minor high FPS visual glitches being perceived.

Visual glitches as in some clothes physics going brrrr 😂

[thick salmon]

So, overall very good in my experience

[tulip canopy]

Rip fellow steam deck peeps

[next kiln]

yea generated by HFW

ha

confirmed

[sonic pawn]

If you can hold your excitement I’d say wait a few more weeks/months. Game still has some weird camera pan judder

[sonic pawn]

For some people

[next kiln]

does this game have some haloing around characters

even with the post processing stuff turned off

i'm using DLAA if that matters

[sonic pawn]

Are you talking about the hero light?

[next kiln]

What's that

[unreal niche]

https://youtu.be/AtTLrfdchoo?t=1455

24:14

[thick salmon]

Don't know what is weird with it though; looks like a normal telemetry log. All games nowadays use telemetry. Edit: ok, yeah, the location of the file is weird...

[thick salmon]

That is there yeah and forced on, but thought there was some mod to disable this. But don't know if it still works with the latest update of the game. If @next kiln about the haloing created by ringing artifacts... disabling sharpening should fix that.

[pallid hawk]

Yeah. I have systemsettings 55

Strange. And even if the game requires it so, why don't put it inside game folder or steam folder. Choosing root drive is strange, they're not considering what end user might think l.

[wooden oracle]

it's a bug. there's a typo in part of their code and it ends up in the drive root instead of the documents folder iirc

when HFW is installed on drive C it'll try the C:\ folder. it doesn't get created unless you run the game with administrator permissions

none of the developers have caught it, presumably for that reason

[weary ridge]

yup it is caused by depth of field

visible during cinematics

and ofc if you don't turn off motion blur then it is visible during gameplay too

[fringe agate]

There's also herolighting and a mod that removes it.

[weary ridge]

I don't think that it's the rim lighting that causes it.

[next kiln]

what is hero lighting

[next kiln]

Kind of sketch to have random files appear in your root drive. Seems like a huge oversight

[next kiln]

do you have a link? I can't seem to find it

[thick salmon]

Cinematic lighting; placing a few attached point lights around a character model. Meant to make the model better lit, easier to see, make it more cinematic etc. but many don't like it for it being unnatural looking

[next kiln]

Yea :-(. I dislike most of the post processing camera effects that devs add

[thick salmon]

Just a coding oversight...

[thick salmon]

Not post processing in this case though

[next kiln]

Oh yea you're right. It's lighting. Not postfx

[thick salmon]

Also can't find it anymore... Maybe it got removed after it wasn't updated to accommodate the new game updates?

[next kiln]

Aw maybe

Okay well not a huge deal

The game is very pretty looking

Hdr seems solid

Framepacing isn't perfect but solid 80 fps with SK latent sync cap

No FG or reflex as i heard it has issues

[thick salmon]

Some people say it does, but would try it out for yourself too

Could very well be system-specific

[weary ridge]

it's called rim lighting actually

[sonic pawn]

I like it. Makes it look more cinematic

[weary ridge]

same

[topaz horizon]

Its okay, there are lots of instances where I thought it looked silly though

[lavish vessel]

It's way too strong, especially since it's used all the time
It should look like this

And not this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220402379321770027/1238899066503561256/63-1712565561-2076624879.webp

[devout hazel]

Hey everyone

What should I select here in lastest patch. Its quite different from v1.0 and i honestly forgot it

My display ** LG G1 OLED **

Using HGIG

Wants most accurate picture

My win 11 hdr calibration app is set as 800 nits

549 gives most cloud details

[weary ridge]

wait

they removed the broken HDR calibration menu in one of the newer patches I think

if it's still there ignore the calbiration image

defaults settings should work fine

just adjust the HDR max luminance

[devout hazel]

Its the lastest patch 1.42

[weary ridge]

HDR brightness is paper white the default setting is fine which is around 234 or something

[devout hazel]

Yup 234 thanks 👌

[weary ridge]

I should really redownload the game lol

[devout hazel]

But interestingly 234 completely washes out clouds and have garbage atmosphere

[weary ridge]

ignore the calibration image

[devout hazel]

Is 1.42 patch still broken hdr menu thats the question

[weary ridge]

I guess it is still broken then

are you in-game?

or in the main manu

the in-game calibration screen should be the paused game

[devout hazel]

main menu. In game calibration takes so long time

[devout hazel]

oh u mean should i open the in game calibration menu while ** I am playing the game** and not in actual main menu ?

[weary ridge]

yes

[next kiln]

Okay this game does get more fun actually

The beginning was a bit of a slog

[sonic pawn]

And the burning shores dlc is amazing. It has the coolest final boss ever

[next kiln]

That comes with it right?

Do you do that after the main storyline?

[weary ridge]

yes

[unreal niche]

i liked the beginning but then i got bored really fast

i cleared the entire area before you get the glider

[next kiln]

that was kinda still the beginning ha

[fringe agate]

The game really starts when you enter the forbidden west itself xD

[next kiln]

Yea

[grand yacht]

Aloy feels quite a bit weaker in FW early game than she does in ZD too, things get more enjoyable when you scale that power curve.

[devout hazel]

I just experienced this and doesnt feel good.Any temporary solution ?

[fringe agate]

Maybe disabling reflex can help, but for me it's there without reflex too.

[thick salmon]

Disabled Frame Generation? And could you be more detailed?

[devout hazel]

yes, I read above posts.I ve 4090@so i dont need FG, i ll try it thanks

[thick salmon]

I meant disabling it is the best

Nice system btw 😋

[devout hazel]

Yes, thanks man 😅

should do it like ;

set 117fps in nvcp

disable reflex

disable FG

for best non stutter,smooth gameplay

[thick salmon]

If your g-sync monitor goes up to 120 Hz then yeah

[sonic pawn]

Reflex still causes issues for me, but frame gen helps with the issues and maxes out my monitors refresh rate. I found the best spot to Be use frame gen, native TAA (don’t like Dlaa), and cap it on Rivia Turner at 100fps.

[next kiln]

She feels very slow in FW

which is fine....if that's what they're going for...but the enemies are way faster than you

especially the human bosses

[thick salmon]

Maybe this is one of those games were they give priority to animations moving fluid instead of extremely snappy movement?

[next kiln]

perhaps

And maybe you get faster with upgrades

[unreal niche]

animations arent even good

[next kiln]

It's just some of the boss fights are painful

because even when i'm dodging away, i'm still not fast enough

and the UI controls on PC aren't great in my opinion

so i'm like stumbling over trying to heal and equip weapons

and when you get knocked down, you're slow to get up

[sonic pawn]

What? How?? It’s looks super realistic. That’s why she keeps falling all the time cause that’s expected when you’re facing massive bosses. Reminds me of Shadow of The Colossus… it’s a bit janky but I guess they aimed for realism

[unreal niche]

mostly traversal which looks janky

especially rolling and jumping

the climbing generally looks good but feels incredibly unresponsive

[next kiln]

agreed. it gets wonky

i had a few bugs where an animation wouldn't trigger and i'd have to purposely fall and reload

but that seems relatively rare

[unreal niche]

the worst part about the game is i feel like every aspect of it is wasting my time

especially the equipment upgrade grind

[next kiln]

most of it is

lol

also in the first game i found that ammo types didn't really matter

as long as you blasted off weak points

not sure if it's kind of the same here

but the different weapons and ammo types are kinda annoying. I just don't really care for the UI system

[unreal niche]

ya the UI is terrible

[next kiln]

but overall I think it got more fun as I got farther

[unreal niche]

and the general visibility of things in the environment is too

hence the focus being needed to see anything

[next kiln]

I can see that

also i noticed that when you use the focus to zoom in on a text log, and you press "tab" as prompted to open it.............nothing happens?

has anyone else had this

it's incredibly annoying

i have to go into the inventory manually to find it

[unreal niche]

you definitely have to use the elemental stuff more this time around

[wooden oracle]

I disagree. you can get through 90% of hfw with a normal hunter bow

higher difficulties make it less viable though

[unreal niche]

I feel like enemies get too damage spongy without upgrades

[next kiln]

Is there a fix for the opening text logs thing

it's driving me nuts

[wooden oracle]

it's probably something to do with the tab key binding. I haven't encountered a bug like that

[wooden oracle]

it depends. you still have to aim for criticals with concentration a lot

in the end game phase you can murder any machine with the death-seeker bow, but I'm unsure how it performs at lower levels

especially after it's upgraded with coils

[unreal niche]

ah right the arena

thats how you get death seeker, right?

my arena was glitched and wouldnt let me progress when I played on ps5

[wooden oracle]

yeah. and that's weird

I also unlocked that nora armor using arena tokens

[broken condor]

Yeah

I've never heard the term "hero lighting" 🙂

[fringe agate]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/did-you-know-about-“hero-lighting”-before-horizon-forbidden-west.531511/

it's "used"

occasionally

but yeah same thing as rim ligthing

people also use the term character lighting

[next kiln]

this game also lets you use more than 3 weapons

i think the first game limited you to 3

if i remember correctly

[unreal niche]

this is a clusterfuck

having to open the weapon wheel and switch between weapons depending on the enemys specific weakness gets annoying when you have multiple enemies with different types of weaknesses

making everything more complicated just becomes annoying at a certain point

which is why i like dark souls so much

its simple and feels good

and also isnt too reliant on reflexes

but instead on learning attack patterns

[sonic pawn]

Only souls I played was Elden ring and that one has a ton of equipment, magic, weapons…

[unreal niche]

Ya but there’s a tried and true method

Big sword

Level strength

[vital quartz]

This is very true

[unreal niche]

With Elden ring I basically just had my katana in my right and shield and talisman in my left

Talisman I only really used to cast buffs for my katana

So it’s pretty simple

That’s about as complicated as it’s gonna get for most people unless you’re a pvp god

[lavish vessel]

Not a fan of Doom Eternal I take it? lol

[unreal niche]

Depends how much weapon switching takes you out of the game

Haven’t played it cause I need an HDR monitor

Cause I don’t wanna play it with a controller on my tv

[lavish vessel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1REbJp7gHFw

Git gud scrub

kbm+m is cheating

/s

Seriously though, I've beaten DE on gamepad on normal, and I'm kinda bad at action games

Back paddles helped a lot though
If not, learn to love bumper jumper

[unreal niche]

Alright

I enjoyed Halo with a controller

Maybe I’ll like this

Gotta beat doom 2016 first

[sonic pawn]

That’s your playstyle. I went for a mage build and traversed around the map getting the specific parts to form the spell I wanted. It got VERY complicated. I believe your gripe is that you wanted horizon to have a better melee combat? Which I agree, it sucks in this game. Now the amount of weapons is a choice. You can easily beat the game with 1 good bow and two more weapons. You don’t HAVE to use anything else in normal difficulty. Mostly have different arrows and you’re goods

[unreal niche]

ya I prefer melee but I also think streamlining some aspects would be better

[thick salmon]

To seriously chat with that, you'd have to be very very good at it and extremely quick, luckily I'm not that haha

[unreal niche]

avoiding weapon wheels is a must in fast paced games imo

i also found the slow mo when you parry in gow and jedi survivor really annoying compared to sekiro

[sonic pawn]

You can at least disable the slowdown effect in Horizon. That’s what I do. Makes a huge difference.

[unreal niche]

i never played the dlc so I'll hop back in at some point and try to play differently to see if I can enjoy it

[sonic pawn]

There’s a quick swap button you can use to be able to quickly swap back and forth between two weapons of your choice.

[grand yacht]

https://www.nexusmods.com/horizonforbiddenwest/mods/63?tab=description

rim lighting on/off with the mod, can look very strange at times in cut scenes indeed

[sonic pawn]

Doesn’t this mod cause a strange silver look? When I enter indoor locations her face becomes weird. The mod says you can fix that but turning something off but it didn’t work for me

[next kiln]

Hmmm. Maybe I'll just deal with the hero lighting

whatever

[grand yacht]

Probably breaks more things than we can list, I think it's to be intended to be used as a hotkey toggle when you get back to base for 30 minutes of cut scenes in-between missions.

[grand yacht]

Played with the mod for a few hours today, almost finished the main story now - certainly seems worth using since it just takes a quick tap of F1 to toggle the effect on/off, only in edge cases that turning off rim lighting causes issues in some darker indoor environments.

Clouds can also be turned off in the mod, much better looking skies without them - blotchy and low rez.

[weary ridge]

clouds are blotchy and low res?

Clouds looked really good on my PC

the DLC clouds are much better ofc but the base game clouds were nice looking too

[next kiln]

Yea clouds look fine to me

lol

they look like clouds

the game is very pretty

I'm totally skipping all side quests though

[wooden oracle]

that's pretty extreme

[next kiln]

to skip all side quests?

i just don't find them interesting. But I am liking the main story now

more so i just don't have time

rather just experience the main story plus DLC

and then move on to another game

[wooden oracle]

I suppose it's fair with limited time. to me it seems like you'd miss out on large portions of the game world

[next kiln]

well i'll do any side quests that interest me i guess

but like not the "proving grounds" and stuff

or the scavenger stuff

[weary ridge]

those are side activities not quests tho

[next kiln]

oh ok

yea i ment mostly those

that I don't want to bother with

but if I see something come my way that looks interesting i'll do it

[sonic pawn]

Yep, definitely don’t skip the side quests, but world activities, sure. You won’t necessarily miss them.

[grand yacht]

might've been a bit of hyperbole on my part to say that the clouds looked bad - I think it's more a case of the smooth and colourful gradients in the sky looking so good and prefer to not have them covered up, something I appreciated much more after getting a flying mount!

[next kiln]

I think once again, the environmental ammo types are convoluted as shit

like the first game

like why have separate blast slings for different bomb types?

just have one fucking sling

and different bomb ammo

like come on people

same with the bows

and they should have done an upgrade tier system go from uncommon to rare in the same weapon, rather than needing to buy another weapon of a higher tier and re-upgrade it

like we're in the year 2024. It shoudl be clear what makes inventory/gameplay mechanics good and what makes them bad

this shit aint rocket science

I do like the auto-stash mechanics though. That's great

and other games can learn from that

and the climbing is fun

environmental interactions are good

[grand yacht]

it's not the most elegant system indeed, at least later game with some of the epic and legendary weapons they can come with 3x different ammo types on the same weapon

[next kiln]

Just little things you have to wonder about

like "have these devs ever played games"

ha

there's so much precedent for this

[grand yacht]

and the glaring omission in power scaling -> melee combat

[next kiln]

just seems odd to not borrow from other games that do it well

I know a lot of it is probably just development time constraints

like they dont have time to make different revisions

so i get it

They just do something and it gets baked in

and no one has time to fix it up

[grand yacht]

it has its issues for sure, lack of unified vision and a few of the systems and mechanics seem to be all over the place but at least what is in the game is largely good

I grew to like it a lot more with time when I got over the initial hump and slow start, there are aspects to the game which are awe inspiring enough to merit a playthrough

[next kiln]

Yea the beginning was extremely dull

but it gets a lot better

[sonic pawn]

I guess it goes to personal preference. I absolutely adored this game from start to finish. I wouldn’t change a thing. It hits all the spots for me. I love the variety of weapons and the amount of customization you can have with this game. Only thing I don’t really like is how the region filters change so drastically. It breaks immersion for me and then sun seems to move too when you cross certain areas in the game. Aside from that, no complaints

[rich lark]

I like the franchise too, 160 hours in Forbidden West so far. It's a cool world to explore. Not an edge to be found anywhere though, it's all very safe and soft.

[thick salmon]

New Nvidia 555.85 driver tries to fix it again: Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition: Lower GPU utilization when Reflex is set to “On + Boost” [4412035]

[next kiln]

I have reflex off due to the stuttering issues. But I did find a few areas that had bad stutter anyway for no reason

ha

but overall it runs well without reflex

[fringe agate]

sounds like the problem is fairly widespread

[sonic pawn]

Gonna try it now

[next kiln]

if it fixed it, i'm going to try to do framegen + reflex with a 120 framecap

[sonic pawn]

It’s better than before but it didn’t fix it. Especially with frame gen plus boost.

[weary ridge]

what about reflex without boost?

[sonic pawn]

It’s ok ish. It feels a little better but idk if it changed anything. I don’t think the problem that I am seeing is reflex related. It happens mostly in heavily populated areas, so I’m thinking it’s a cpu limitation?

[weary ridge]

oh yea, we should test it with intel's presentmon

SK supports GPU/CPU busy measuring too I think

[thick salmon]

Yeah, could be. As of late get the suspicion many seem to blindly blame reflex for all stutters instead of first looking at a CPU or GPU limitation

[sonic pawn]

Yeah, that would make sense since The boost option deal with CPU lag, so it could be why it’s affecting the performance so much

[next kiln]

Yea there have been one or two areas where i have gotten awful stuttering....and i am not using FG or reflex

but overall it runs pretty okay

but if you look at the frametime graph, even though it's easily hitting my fps cap, there are still frametime deviations

so the game is not smooth under the hood in general ha

[thick salmon]

Sure it is thus not caused by a CPU or VRAM limitation?

[next kiln]

definitely not VRAM. The game uses like 10gb max on my 16gb card

I didn't really look at the CPU usage. Next time it happens i'll see if I can find out anything

[sonic pawn]

I agree. I’m running a 24gb of vram and in the areas where it has that ugly camera judder I lowered the resolution to 1080p and the problem remained.

[broken condor]

It's not resolution related

90 FPS is as high as you can go without stutter.

[next kiln]

I'm capped to 80 and I got some stutter, but it was only in one area. But it was severe

[sonic pawn]

That hasn’t been my experience. It stutters in certain areas even at 70-80 fps. That’s actually how far it will go in cpu heavy areas

[sonic pawn]

Was it in Fleets End?

[next kiln]

That sounds familiar....but I honestly forget

[rich lark]

The judder is weird and I'm not sure if it happened earlier in the launch.

[thick salmon]

You give zero context here 😂

[next kiln]

🤔

[sonic pawn]

It did.

[true badge]

Are 8gb GPUS suffering with this game? For the life of me I can't pinpoint the reason performance tanks.

[unreal niche]

yes

[true badge]

That makes sense. I can run a few areas or cutscenes 3-4 times and every time the FPS fluctuates massively

[fringe agate]

8gb gpus need to stick to like medium textures

[next kiln]

On my 4080 super, the game uses up to 11gb of actual budgeted vram usage, as reported by SK

at 1440p

so i'd imagine a 8gb card would struggle, yes

[fringe agate]

framepacing is so shit am kinda thinking of just uninstalling and returning after a year

[sonic pawn]

I’m thinking they’re not even gonna fix it at this point. They’re busy with ghost of Tsushima. And will probably be busy with a god of war ragnarok port

[next kiln]

Did you turn reflex off?

It's not perfect on mine but it's pretty good

No real problems

[fringe agate]

I did, nothing works but to put dlss on ultraperf

[next kiln]

Hmm. I'm using dlaa and i don't have any noticeable problems. I had like one area that stuttered really hard

[unreal niche]

Kaldaien said he just had to cap the framerate and it was fine

Use the frame time graphs in sk

[fringe agate]

Would you call it stutter if there is no moment without? My frametimes look like sausages.

[fringe agate]

I'd have to cap to like 60 fps to resolve it. It seems that running the gpu anywhere close to max load causes severe framepacing issues.

I can hit 100 in most scenes easily.

[next kiln]

It could definitely be something with max GPU load. I don't think I'm at max much since i'm capping to 80 and uncapped i'd be getting like 100

I'll take a look at GPU usage next time I play

But like I said earlier, the frametime graph is rarely flat, even with easily hitting the capped fps

and i'm not using FG/reflex

so this port is definitely odd

but just the only time i got noticeable stuttering was a rare areas

[sonic pawn]

Hey guys. I may have found a solution for the judder. I’ve capped the game at 60 with RTSS, and then instead of using the game’s dlss 3 frame generation, I’m using lossless scaling frame generation. It looks better to me with lossless scaling and it also seems that, unlike dlss 3, lossless scaling doubles every game fps, even the compass. Im very satisfied with it. I had been using it with older games and emulators that are heavily cpu limited and it worked great.

I’d say the only downside on horizon is that there’s more input lag, even with reflex + boost on

[weary ridge]

I'm not sure how LSFG works, but capping the framerate to 60 means that the game is running at 30fps when you use DLSS FG

I mean the base 30fps is doubled to 60 by frame generation

[sonic pawn]

No. Lossless scaling doubles the capped fps you have. It works different from in game frame gen. Amazing tech. I bought the software a few months ago and it wasn’t very good… had a lot of ghosting. Last month they released version 2 and I’m loving it. I use it a lot with emulators, like RPCX3.

Just wasn’t expecting it to fix the camera judder in forbidden west. Finally a solution.

[weary ridge]

Oh nice

it probably smooths it out so it's harder to detect

the judder is there even if you dont use FG

[next kiln]

It's hard to tell though

Without fg and reflex

[weary ridge]

it's very subtle yea

[next kiln]

Ye

But it's there definitely

[sonic pawn]

Yeah could be. It just looks very good to me.

[next kiln]

This game is actually pretty damn long

especially if you do some of the side content (which you basically have to unless you want to be 10 levels behind the main quest line the entire game)

[sonic pawn]

Indeed. That’s what I love about it. You can distracted so easily. I like it when games make you feel lost

[next kiln]

The side quests are okay. Some better than others. THe couldrons are cool but i find the platforming very janky/annoying at times

[sonic pawn]

Agree with the platforming. It’s the weakest link in this game.

[next kiln]

Sometimes movements just do not trigger

[next kiln]

the last boss in HFW is fucking brutal

[sonic pawn]

Oh yeah it’s amazing. It’s long too. Probably 30 minutes to do the whole thing

[weary ridge]

the DLC?

[next kiln]

No main game

[weary ridge]

ahh the DLC final boss is even more epic

it's probably the best final boss ever? maybe not. but it's kinda awesome

[next kiln]

i just turned down the difficulty for the main game final boss. It was annoying me.

lol

the rate at which alloy gets up when knocked down is like 5x too long

it was pissing me off

[weary ridge]

haha

[sonic pawn]

Oh I thought y meant the final dlc boss.

[sonic pawn]

I agree

[next kiln]

no i just found the base game boss very annoying

like aloy gets knocked down, takes 900 years to get back up, then i get hit like 5 more times before i can even get away

it's just BS

lol

The other bosses felt properly balanced

this one was just BS

[sonic pawn]

The main game final boss took me literally 3 hours to beat. I was streaming it so it was embarrassing. It was because I was severely underprepared. I skipped a lot of the side quests and rushed through the main story. Second time I was prepared and was able to kill it in 5 minutes

[next kiln]

I had good weapons and i was the level recommended for the quest

and it was still impossible

ran out of ammo and supplies before the fuck was even at 50% health

i probably should have leveled up 5 more levels proir

prior

i think the recommended level should have been like 38-40 instead of 35

35 was grossly disadvantaged lol

[weary ridge]

Idk I had no trouble killing it

but I was probably overleveled

[next kiln]

Yea i didn't do enough leveling

And the upgrade system for weapons and armor is such a grind

So i didn't really go out of my wY

Way*

Overall this game is very good though. It suffers from a lot of issues that the first did, but it's way better. You actually need to use elemental damage unlike the first game

I just wish aloy didn't take an hour and a half to get up once she's knocked down

[sonic pawn]

The issue is not the levels, it’s the weapons. You gotta use the right kind, which is mostly poison traps and poison arrows, then you finish her off with spike throwers.

[next kiln]

ah yea i like never use traps

oh well

i already got past it

just on easy ha

[sonic pawn]

Hahah. Yeah you’re right, you gotta use elementals. It’s difference between grinding or not

So I recommended leveling up and mastering the weapons available cause burning shorted is a tad harder

[next kiln]

yea i'll do some side quests

the side quests don't really interst me though

also the one where you get the data so that guy can make a new arm was dumb

cause at the end he's just like "eh....i'm not gonna use it really"

lol

[weary ridge]

I used maxed explosive javelins

killed her in a few minutes maybe lol

[next kiln]

yea okay i definitely am not using the right weapons

also is it just me or is the shredder blade weapon cap af?

[sonic pawn]

Yes. It’s useless

[next kiln]

haha

i also never used the warrior bow

[weary ridge]

because he realized that he have to accept who he is now, he is tribal warrior after all 😄 not a fan of augmentations

[next kiln]

Zzzzzz lol

[weary ridge]

🤷‍♂️ Kotallo was one of the better written characters imo

[next kiln]

Yea his character was decent

The one dude is super annoying

the one that loves aloy

Overall I like all the characters

||Not a huge fan of the "nemesis" twist though. I feel like they keep convoluting the storyline just for the sake of making more games :(||

[sonic pawn]

Oh I finally realized what you’re talking about. I liked that quest but he does use the “item” just not every time.

[next kiln]

Ha yea

[next kiln]

So the spike thrower thing is good?

[fringe agate]

it's a funny yeet thing

[next kiln]

is it good against machines tho lol

[sonic pawn]

Absolutely. And if you use those when the enemy is under an effect, like on fire or freezing, then you get to detach their parts easily

[thick salmon]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/2420110/announcements/detail/4229524700808157680

[next kiln]

Honestly this game runs pretty dang well for me on a 4080 super, without reflex/framegen. Although once in a while it turns into a stutterfest and i have to reload the save. Haven't figured out what causes it. Happens very rarely

no vram/ram leakage

fps is fine

it's weird

maybe this patch will fix it

[fringe agate]

Double patch, wow

[fringe agate]

I think it actually may be vram. But I notice that too

Hope framepacing is improved now too. And am lookinf forward to try fsr 3.1 here.

Since the mod didn't work with upscaling.

[thick salmon]

Let me know guys if your issues with performance and frame-pacing are improved... very curious to know 🙂

[celest nest]

oo is that the first 3.1 game?

oh wow okay got and ratchet also got a patch

[next kiln]

It's not though. Vram never goes above like 10gb. I have 16

[fringe agate]

Yeah but still, it's as if it refuses to move some stuff from system memory to vram.

[next kiln]

Yea definitely possible

Game could have an internal vram cap

Which would make sense since FG causes more stutter and FG uses more vram

But I'm speculating

[broken condor]

Nixxes statically links libScePad, so their games aren't going to work when a PS6 controller is released.
At least they go back and patch old titles, even if they've started gimping them with statically linked libraries.

[sonic pawn]

Just tested it. Still stuttering in areas with lots of NPCS but it’s much less noticeable. FSR3 is pretty good. But still, lossless scaling is better than both solutions. It’s kinda embarrassing that a $5 app was able to fix the game perfomance but the developers could not.

FS3 is looking better than dlss3 in this game, which is very surprising. And it causes less input lag.

Only downside of fsr3 is that UI elements are jittery , as if frame gen isn’t working on them

[fringe agate]

no way lsfg is better, it demolishes performance and doesn't support VRR

[fringe agate]

that's normal, framegen can't handle UI very well so devs mask the UI off from the frame generation

[sonic pawn]

It does support VRR. It’s running smooth as butter for me with it. Have you tried it with their version 2.1??

[sonic pawn]

It will make performance worse if you don’t have enough vram. It uses about 10% of your GPU.

[fringe agate]

idk what to tell you, it doesn't work. it's literally stated by the devs and the toggle in the UI for VRR is a leftover setting that doesn't do anything. there is some support for VRR if you have an AMD gpu in DXGI capure mode, but it's not reliable.

[fringe agate]

it uses much more, for reference, on my 3080 I lose about 30% of my base framerate to it

oh and the disocclusion artefacts on the window borders and in movement are actually disgustingly bad.

[sonic pawn]

I can tell you that for me it’s running better

[sonic pawn]

No need to be rude man.

[fringe agate]

am sorry

am just super tired of the lossless scaling astroturf. since they released the 3x mode everyone is talking about it, huge marketing move and everyone is singing praises, until you test it and figure out it's a bunch of broken shit

[sonic pawn]

So try to figure out if it isn’t something on your end. Ive been testing it in a ton of games and they’re mostly really good. But in Horizon it’s better than the dlss3 and fs3, because of the frame pacing issues. I also use it on assassins creed odyssey that is heavily cpu limited in big cities full of NPCS. Works like a charm. And ofc, in emulators it works great too. But I don’t think it works well in every game.

I also don’t use the 3x feature.

[fringe agate]

this is what I mean, the well of discourse is already poisoned. the app is not broken, even if the devs say it doesn't support VRR, it's on my end, it's my computer that is wrong. even though I already tried everything until I literally asked Hybred and he said it doesn't work on nvidia

[sonic pawn]

There’s one more thing I noticed in Horizon… the effect only works well if I cap the game half my refresh rate with Rivia. The nvidia cap feels kinda weird

[fringe agate]

because HFW has horrible framepacing

[sonic pawn]

What monitor do you use and what refresh rate?

[fringe agate]

a 240 hz oled, what would it matter?

[sonic pawn]

Trying to investigate.

[fringe agate]

am sorry, don't waste your time

it doesn't work

[sonic pawn]

Ok

[fringe agate]

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/fix-vrr-for-overlays-always-on-top-windows/296168

[sonic pawn]

I wasn’t trying to make VRR work. I guess didn’t notice it wasn’t on because I get consistent 60fps.

[celest nest]

(fyi i've never seen it in action) I just can't imagine it working acceptably at all without having access to motion vectors, let alone being comparable to native framegen

[sonic pawn]

I think I need to give some context as to what I’m claiming. I’m not claiming that lossless scaling is better than frame gen by no means. It does have some more noticeable ghosting, similar to fs3. I’m just saying overall, in Horizon Forbidden West, given the issues with frame pacing everyone’s been talking about, lossless scaling was a better option for me. The stuttering almost entirely stopped. But the downside is ghosting, which is less noticeable to me than the stuttering.

[unreal niche]

i thought kaldaien said you can fix the stuttering by capping to a lower framerate than what you can get

so use fg and cap it to twice that

[sonic pawn]

Compare both videos. First is the one with frame generation and it doesn’t have any ghosting, but the game judder is noticeable. The second has ghosting on Aloy but no camera judder on the background

I recorded them both in slow motion so you guys can not itch the difference

Sorry, it’s backwards. First clip is lossless scaling, second is dlss3

[unreal niche]

wtf is that ghosting on dlss3

what gpu