▫️Horizon: Zero Dawn Remaster/Forbidden West

[broken condor]

Alright, cool.

 24.3.22
 =======
  + Merge pull request #153 from Nustat0:fix-empty-api-name
     * Update Active API if its name is empty
  + Integrated Ersh's Horizon Forbidden West HDR fix and updated it for
       Steam -and- Epic versions of the game.

Tested and it's automatic on Steam and Epic now, provided they don't already have your ASI patch installed.

[wooden oracle]

leaving this here in case anyone else has issues with the Tab key binding in HFW:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2420110/discussions/0/4292566217059966584/?ctp=2#c4292566446026420977

[celest nest]

registry?? wtf

[mild sand]

is there a fix for horizon hdrå

?

[celest nest]

yes, check pins

[mild sand]

it`s working now! thank you!

[copper frigate]

what should my paper white be after fixing the luminance slider? I have the aw3423dw

[celest nest]

the default should be okay

[broken condor]

Significantly higher than it starts at, or you can't read text.

[celest nest]

(don't listen to kal :D)

[copper frigate]

why cant you do max lum at 1000

its like either 986 or 1060 its weird

[broken condor]

Because that would be insane

[copper frigate]

wait why

my monitor does 1000

[broken condor]

ABL

[copper frigate]

so i shouldn't have mine at 1060

[celest nest]

you still should set max luminance to whatever your monitor's max luminance is, regardless of ABL

[copper frigate]

ok

i mean it looks really good right now

[celest nest]

yeah leave it at 1000, you have actual hdr highlights then

if you up paperwhite too much you'll lose the punchy highlights too

[broken condor]

Well if you set it to 1000, then you ahve to set paperwhite to 1000 too, which is even more insane

[celest nest]

kal please

[copper frigate]

oh im an idiot you can set it to exactly 1000 i was just using a controller

[celest nest]

oh yeah they skip a bunch on the controller

[broken condor]

What? lol. I'm serious. If you don't jack paper white through the roof, the UI is just going to blend into the rest of the scene.
That's why you bring down max luminance and you won't have to jack paper white up nearly as a high.

It still needs to go up much more than it starts, but it'll be less with a lower peak luminance.

[celest nest]

you have extremely strange views on UI brightness in HDR that aren't shared by pretty much anyone else. if they can see the UI fine with the default paperwhite (i for sure can), they should leave it at a ~200 value because that's the standard

[copper frigate]

yeah my ui looks fine

i moved the paper white up a bit because it made everything brighter but thats about it

[steel phoenix]

My UI also looks fine with similar settings

[celest nest]

I do agree that the UI brightness should be a separate slider always. but in this game it's not, and upping paperwhite too much just destroys what most people love about hdr which is the contrast and punchy highlights

[steel phoenix]

They got 99% of what matters on day 1 so I'm just grateful for that after so many terrible, terrible ports.

And this quick hdr fix was a godsend, they need to hotfix this too, and reflex + boost, and then I'm pretty satisfied

[copper frigate]

exactly the PC performance is really good. no stutters or anything

[celest nest]

hope we get a ultrawide hud fix soon though 😦

[copper frigate]

oh i literally just noticed that

[steel phoenix]

Right. Returnal is my favourite ps5 game (then HFW) and returnal is a total stutter fest when loading rooms. It's playable but disappointing

[celest nest]

it was fine in the first game wasnt it

[copper frigate]

great now i cant not notice it lol

[celest nest]

have you played it with raytracing? that's the main cause of stutters

[celest nest]

damnit sorry haha

[steel phoenix]

Oh really? I tried both, still stuttered, but I'll turn them off and play for a bit and see

I only tried without RT for a few rooms

[celest nest]

i think you need to restart the game to fully see a difference

[sonic pawn]

Sorry to jump on the wagon like this, but did someone say HDR fix? 👁️

[celest nest]

ya check pins

[steel phoenix]

I'll give it a shot. But afaik there's still an issue and it's even apparent on ps5

Also... The draw distance is atrocious

[celest nest]

yeah it doesnt entirely fix the stutters, but there's less without RT

[steel phoenix]

The pop in is noticeable everywhere except the underwater part.

And yeah I set particles to high because I heard setting it to Epic makes it even worse

[sonic pawn]

I had the same issue!

[sonic pawn]

Sorry but where can I find them? 🥲

[celest nest]

the pin icon

[broken condor]

You can look at the calibration screen with your own two eyes and see that all detail is gone if you leave it at 200

[celest nest]

you know the calibration screen is bad though

[broken condor]

And the UI text is also much too dim to be seen

To get UI levels up to visible levels, you have to increase paper white by a lot.

[celest nest]

you're right about the detail being gone in the calibration screen, but it's because it incorrectly only uses the paperwhite brightness

it's useless for actual calibration

[celest nest]

and that - you've seen others confirm that they can see it just fine. idk, maybe it's your screen, I can't see what you see

[broken condor]

🤷
I mean, this game is mostly white clouds and a white UI. I can't believe anyone can see that text with the default paper white

I've tried several HDR displays

[sonic pawn]

Damn I don’t seem to find this. So odd.

[celest nest]

oh you're on mobile. not sure where they put them nowadays

#1220402379321770027 message heres a link

[sonic pawn]

Alright thanks

[celest nest]

you've seen the jxr i sent right? with the menu text on top of the sun. can you read the UI there?

[sonic pawn]

Omg just tried your fix woah I hadn’t even noticed that there was a problem but now I see. Thanks a lot for the fix.

[unreal niche]

John seems to be the only one interested in HDR

they used to have more hdr content

[celest nest]

have the others used one of the great oleds? i can't imagine anyone not becoming a convert after experiencing that lol

[unreal niche]

alex has c1

[tulip canopy]

Alex

He made a video about rtx hdr recently

[steel phoenix]

They all care about hdr imo, but John definitely cares the most

[unreal niche]

I feel like he isn't super invested though

[celest nest]

i think it's probably more about the fact that it's a niche

[steel phoenix]

It is an odd oversight but I know Alex was probably primarily concerned with it actually not having stutter and other big issues

[unreal niche]

he goes over the differences in how autohdr and rtxhdr look but not why, like the differences in how they treat gamma

but this is also niche and no ones gonna really care

except us

too lazy to check but i feel like they used to make more hdr videos

[steel phoenix]

It really is disappointing how niche HDR is. It has mind blowing properties when done well.

Hell even rtx hdr being applied to YouTube videos makes them look so much more realistic

[celest nest]

it's gonna get more popular with all the great monitors coming out now

[unreal niche]

I would like john to talk more about good hdr and surround sound

[steel phoenix]

They'd usually talk about when hdr looked really great like in several PS exclusives

[unreal niche]

good atmos, headphones, etc

[steel phoenix]

But it was difficult to show how so... Yeah

[unreal niche]

honestly i didn't like the hdr in horizon

a little too eye searing

[celest nest]

It has mind blowing properties when done well.
it is funny how people have NO IDEA what it is and what it does before they experience it. you can't even explain it properly

[novel storm]

Alex really liked RTX HDR but it looked pretty terrible in the Lost Planet stuff he showed :/

[unreal niche]

ya lost planet and republic commando

[steel phoenix]

Yeah part of the issue is you can't really show the benefits.... Also the hdr standard is so loose, and then so many devs and film studios take massive liberties with it, making it look terrible

[celest nest]

a massive, really MASSIVE blow to the public perception of HDR was done by the godawful "hdr support" monitors

[steel phoenix]

The worst thing was allowing tv manufacturers to put some goddamn stamp on the box saying HDR and then it just meant... It'll allow an hdr container but it does fuck all

Yep

[unreal niche]

also in his comparison videos

he compares what looks like 80 nit sdr to like 200 nit hdr

[celest nest]

at least most tvs that don't have dimming zones can still display it properly and it basically looks like SDR. but the monitors like the LG GL850... man

[novel storm]

It's weird, because the control HDR mod video was okay ish

But then the RTXHDR stuff was just "look how cool this insanely saturated mess looks"

[steel phoenix]

The fact that DF is trying is enough for me honestly... They are one of the most popular outlets trying to get people on board with hdr

[steel phoenix]

Oh really, so some monitors just look worse with hdr on?

[novel storm]

If at the very least it gets studios to give us proper calibration screens and settings that's already worth it I think

oh yes

[steel phoenix]

Christ lol

[novel storm]

When you hear people saying that HDR looks washed out and terrible, it's probably because they're trying to use it on some super crummy HDR400 LCD

[celest nest]

significantly worse. it's just broken, washed out, colors are all weird. i assume this is where many of the complaints about washed out hdr come from

yeah that ^

[steel phoenix]

I just thought that was due to the terrible bugginess of hdr in windows at least until recently... It looks better now I think lol

[novel storm]

The HDR1000 stuff with no dimming is usually okay because they can actually reach good brightnesses and color accuracy, even if they can't do local dimming

But the lowend stuff is terrible

There's no point

[celest nest]

and I mean, it's not their fault. they just believed what the manufacturer said. HDR on the box, "oh yeah imma see what the fuss is all about... wait this looks like ass. man hdr is a scam"

[unreal niche]

ya if you don't have good local dimming then hdr looks awful

[celest nest]

so we gotta educate

[fresh hinge]

HDR is only good on OLED imo

[steel phoenix]

I mean my hdr looked all washed out on my old P65 vizio on the desktop. Until I actually got in a game

[unreal niche]

idk about monitors but for tvs youre not gonna get good hdr for less than like a tcl 6 series

[novel storm]

I'm curious to see what the masses will think once we proper local dimming ends up being widespread though

Cuz I quite like HDR on my OLED, but it wouldn't consider it as transformative as some others unless I'm comparing stuff side by side

[unreal niche]

i think maybe 5 series might be decent now but even just 2 years ago tcl 6 series was just decent

[celest nest]

supposedly with enough dimming zones non-OLED is great too but I haven't seen that personally. I kinda struggle to believe it though, unless the zones are extremely tiny (and afaik none of them are yet)

[unreal niche]

i have tcl 55r655 and it's decent

[fresh hinge]

Using AW3423DW trying the fix on forbidden west, but it may not work because “reasons”

[steel phoenix]

At one point I wouldn't even consider any 65" TV under $1000 because the hdr was so bad on them

[novel storm]

Depends on how sensitive you are to haloing (if it's a scene where that actually matters ofc)

[steel phoenix]

It's a lot more cheap now

[novel storm]

The 300+ zone stuff is at least worth enabling HDR on I think, assuming it doesn't have some other stupid quirks (looking at you coolermaster)

[fresh hinge]

Does the fix supposed to overwrite something in the game directory???

[steel phoenix]

Personally the dimming zones on my P65 were pretty satisfactory, but going to OLED was like looking through a window into the movie lol

[celest nest]

nope, just put both files next to the exe

[fresh hinge]

Both! There’s only one I found on this thread

[celest nest]

the calibration screen in game is broken (nothing to do with the fix), but it works in actual gameplay

[celest nest]

i mean both from the archive

check pinned posts, this is the most recent one that supports both steam and egs #1220402379321770027 message

[fresh hinge]

Damn I have to find it then cause i found the cpp file only

[celest nest]

oh lol no

grab the archive from the one i linked 😅

[novel storm]

I wish you could sticky stuff in forum threads, that would be nice

[celest nest]

yeah

[sharp glen]

Any other AW3225QF enjoyers in the chat, just curious what HDR settings you are using. Interested to see if they are the same i set mine too. Although i havent put the fix in, juust learning of it

[fresh hinge]

Ty! Works great

[glossy sequoia]

I think the fix is working, now I just have to figure out the best settings. Currently some lights look "blown out" at night time. Could that be the Bloom setting or bad HDR settings I've picked

[fresh hinge]

How come the HDR was never fixed for HZD on pc?

[unreal niche]

i find the bloom horrendous looking at times

[lean hull]

@celest nest haven't caught up fully but wanted to see how you're liking the default paperwhite so far, progressed a bit in the game?

[celest nest]

https://www.nexusmods.com/horizonforbiddenwest/mods/10/ It's on the Nexus now

[tulip canopy]

I use the default as well

[lean hull]

[lean hull]

Yeah, Ersh and I are using default, too.

[celest nest]

i like the default yeah

[lean hull]

Max nits goes to 798 for me, whcih is ~800. And that's perfect for my C2.

[lean hull]

ayyyyyyyy! #DefaultGangGang.

[tulip canopy]

max goes up to nearly 1500 nits for me

[lean hull]

Cause your slider is set to 1500.

Mine is set to 800 😄

[fresh hinge]

Game defaults to 1020 for me. Changed to 1019

[tulip canopy]

its cause I have no edid

[lean hull]

Is there a way to upvote or something on Nexus?

For mods?

[steel phoenix]

I thought it worked properly?

[lean hull]

I guess downloading helps, right?

[celest nest]

yeah download, endorse

[lean hull]

[tulip canopy]

I'm on windows 10 still. Didn't really feel like using cru to change that as well.

[lean hull]

I'm too early.

#First

[fresh hinge]

The tone mapper doesn’t work. Highlights are overblown at 10,000 nits so you have to use Lilium tone mapping to correct it

[celest nest]

idk why it's taking so long

[steel phoenix]

Oh

[lean hull]

Win 11 is dope, mang. You should make the jump.

[simple briar]

@celest nest holy crap! Fram gen + DLAA is game changing! I always assumed it would be more taxing. Thank you 😊

[lean hull]

https://tenor.com/view/james-franco-the-interview-hate-us-gif-12303612

They don't want us to be great.

[celest nest]

it's the secret best combo

[tulip canopy]

why

[celest nest]

why not

😄

it's actually got some good stuff for gaming (and HDR) there

[lean hull]

I'm using DLAA + DRS, and my framepacing is rock steady.

Albeit, my 1% and 0.1% lows were kinda wonky at 115 FPS limiter (in SK), but at 100 much better.

[tulip canopy]

the stuff they have is kinda eh

[glossy sequoia]

Is Max luminance what my monitor is capable of producing, no matter how small the "window of brightness" is?

[celest nest]

it's peak 10000 in that game and you can't change it 😄

[lean hull]

Everything that you want and like in Win 10 is already here, and then it offers more. There's also a minor uptick in performance in some games, IIRC?

Biggest crying was the taskbar, but you can change it to left so it's similar to Win 10 then.

[celest nest]

yeah

[lean hull]

Shared it earlier in SK, but dat solid framepacing.

[simple briar]

Those ghosting problems I mentioned 10hrs ago, imperceptible without dlss. Definitely the secret combo.

[tulip canopy]

I'm aware of that, but that wasn't my biggest grievance anyway

[glossy sequoia]

Should i find a way to measure that myself or just go off of reviews or what the manufacturere sasys

[tulip canopy]

right click is

but that can be fixed by modifying the registry

[steel phoenix]

Jesus, can mods fix it? I haven't played it in years but definitely will in the future

[lean hull]

There's a registry fix that makes it like just before, but I like the new right click, better than what it was at launch. Still could use some more improvements but I don't mind it anymore.

[celest nest]

yeah. you can use lilium's hdr reshade shaders to tonemap it down from 10k to your max luminance

[tulip canopy]

but anyway autohdr and rtxhdr isn't enough to motivate me to upgrade

[steel phoenix]

Alright nice

Ty

[fresh hinge]

This the way

[tulip canopy]

it doesn't realy have any "killer app" over 10 imo

[fresh hinge]

Must use Dice tone map method

[celest nest]

seems good now

[rich lark]

Huh, the game is detecting my peak nits as 1499 again, same as Alan Wake 2 sometimes did. It's 800 in windows.

[celest nest]

hdr calibration crapped out again i guess?

[rich lark]

I'll airlock the current profile and make a new one.

[celest nest]

is HAGS/rebar in win10 too?

[tulip canopy]

yes

[lean hull]

I downloaded, butttttt ... endorse option is still greyed out. How long until that becomes available?

[tulip canopy]

if hags wasn't in I'd def upgrade

[lean hull]

Also, thanks for the mod again.

nvm, can endorse it now.

[tulip canopy]

I don't use rebar though

[lean hull]

But of course

[tulip canopy]

causes issues with my old ass board

[tired vapor]

how can I get the mod? the one on nexusmods says its still uploading to cdn

[celest nest]

should be fine now (refresh the page?). or grab it from the pinned posts

[rich lark]

Ersh working overtime for the community again.

[lean hull]

Do creators get any monetization done on their mods if a 'paid Nexus mod' user downloads their mod or something?

Or it's all free and paid is only to benefit Nexus, not creators?

[tired vapor]

got itthanks!

[celest nest]

we do get a tiny bit from every unique download

[lean hull]

Noice!

[celest nest]

not sure what is a "paid nexus mod" user but no, from any user

[lean hull]

And is it same for free and paid downloads, I'm assuming?

[lean hull]

Upgrade one

[celest nest]

oh like the premium

yea no matter

[lean hull]

aye, that premium shid

okay, good

[fresh hinge]

I bought nexus lifetime premium for cheap many many years ago

Forget what it cost at the time

[glossy sequoia]

same, lifetime is great

[lean hull]

I barely download mods but what does Premium offer over free, other than faster downloads?

[fresh hinge]

You can download more than one file at a time. Bigger files too

[lean hull]

Noice, okay

[fresh hinge]

I think? lol don’t know what free offers lol. Been on premium for so long so yeah lol

[steel phoenix]

I've only ever had free

It's not taking hours for me to download mods so it's been fine for me

But I'm not the type who is modding gamebryo engine until it breaks

[celest nest]

you should, it's fun 😄

[steel phoenix]

I only needed 30 mods to get FNV to work properly

[rose sail]

make sure to sub to Ersh's patreon if you are deep enough down the rabbit hole

[steel phoenix]

I'm not adding one more or one less to that pile. It's a delicate balance lol

[tawdry delta]

why cant i set max lum at 1000....

its giving me 997 or 1001

my ocd

[tawdry delta]

how

guess ill just change paper white to 235 from default 236 as it seems to only way to have lum 1000

fucking weird

[lean hull]

With a mouse.

Drag the slider.

[tawdry delta]

i am

it goes 997 or 1001

unless i change paperwhite to 235 instead of default 236

[lean hull]

Yeah, you're gonna need that 8000Hz mouse.

||joking.||

[tawdry delta]

no clue what you people are doing

[tawdry delta]

joking but i have one

[lean hull]

Mine is set at 800 by default, so. I leave it at that.

In-game I see mine going to 798-799 something

[lean hull]

In that case, you're gonna need those 100Hz ones.

[tawdry delta]

the motion blur is only per object in this game?

(which is ideal)

[tawdry delta]

wow the default sharpening of 5 is so bad

so oversharpened

[rose sail]

impossible

[tawdry delta]

what

also the motion blur isnt per object

its bad

disable motion blur and all sharpening'

[lean hull]

oh shit.

Just tried launching the game.

I guess the Nexus one is most updated then

[tulip canopy]

yes

he removed the game version check

[lean hull]

Ah, nice. Might as well, cause who knows when they gonna fix it.

Works fine, time to finally enjoy the game now that weekend is here.

[broken condor]

Use SK

It has it automatically built-in

Man that's tiny

Too Small; Couldn't Read: Nixxes knows about the HDR problem

Sucks that it's not a priority issue though. It's so simple and it's making the game look like shit for everyone with an HDR display.

[tulip canopy]

where is this

[broken condor]

Where's what?

[tulip canopy]

what server

[broken condor]

DirectX. Various developers are there, Becca happens to be one that works at Nixxes.

[tulip canopy]

oh

dope

now we have confirmation at least

that it will be fixed

wonder if they're aware of the deck shader compilation issues

[lean hull]

That's what she said.

Integrated in SK is clutch, though. Love to see it.

But yeah, rather odd that this isn't a priority fix when it's such a simple fix. Could've literally pushed it out with that DualSense patch they did today.

[wide schooner]

Im gonna fire this up on my CX - Ill try default values first. Any CX owners here?

Also, big thanks to @celest nest and @broken condor for your work.

[spiral fable]

Ever any hope for being able to copy a ps5 save over to PC?

Prolly not

[lean hull]

Mate, can't even copy save files from one PS to another without running into a lot of issues, and getting lucky, unless you pay for those $40-50 software, and even then can only port PS4 to PS5 saves in games.

Don't see that happening on PC, since the saves are encrypted on PS apparently.

[sly horizon]

Is there any consensus on TAA vs DLAA for this game? I'm on 4k and honestly can't really tell the diff, and if so which is more performant?

[fresh hinge]

Isn’t DLSS the better of those two?

[sly horizon]

It tends to vary by game (and also preference) and resolution (1080p DLAA isn't really comparable to 4k DLAA)

So was just wondering if there was a consensus for this game

[broken condor]

WTF is a FLT release?

Nevermind, I don't care.

[sly horizon]

Pirated release

[thick salmon]

You're getting a warning for clearly discussing a pirated version of the game. We do not support piracy and will give you no support regarding this game.

[sly horizon]

What does DLSS have to do with piracy

[thick salmon]

His original message mentioning piracy has been removed

[fresh hinge]

Isn’t DLSS the better of the AA options?

[thick salmon]

To my eyes yes

[sly horizon]

Well, I feel like I answered that in the quoted post. ;p

I'll give both a try and squint real hard. DLAA would perform better all else equal though, right?

[sly horizon]

No such rule in #📋welcome-rules-info btw.

[thick salmon]

No honestly, as difference is extremely minor

[thick salmon]

I've discussed it in the past and those rules need a serious update haha

[sly horizon]

Well that may be so, but you can't reasonably hand out warnings for rules that don't exist.

imo anyway

[fresh hinge]

Ok. I saw piracy talk in the main HDR Gaming thread

[thick salmon]

I think piracy being a no-go is quite obvious right? 😅

[fresh hinge]

Sure. Just make it a rule for the server lol

[thick salmon]

I missed it then, but has nothing to do with this haha. But let's not discuss this further. I'll make sure to update the rules this week

[sly horizon]

Thanks a million for this

[wooden oracle]

I'd say that's covered under "common sense"

[sly horizon]

Common sense is not so common

[thick salmon]

Apparently 😋

[wooden oracle]

I suppose we'll have to make rules to remind those people to breathe too

[lavish vessel]

HDR isn't "niche", most movies and TV shows released now have HDR version
It's just games industry is completely oblivious to it

[sly horizon]

Hardly comparable

[thick salmon]

And to take a dump now and then

We're just joking

Don't worry, we'll update the rules to be a tat more specific in certain places

[wooden oracle]

I'm just saying. people that discuss piracy in a public server generally don't care to read rules either

[fresh hinge]

Why is it then that nearly almost every pc game on windows has broken hdr in some way?

[thick salmon]

Let's put a pin in this discussion, it seems unproductive

[sly horizon]

But moderators do.

[thick salmon]

Bad Devs? Unclear standards?

[thick salmon]

Please stop

[sly horizon]

If the majority of test images are useless I think it's probably dev incompetence

[lavish vessel]

Most people treat HDR like officially sanctioned vivid mode

[tawdry delta]

There's a difference between discussing something and promoting or linking to it

Digital Foundry literally discusses piracy actually sometimes in favorable ways when it comes to preservation maybe they should be banned lol

I recall Alex saying he has no problem buying whatever that new Zelda game is and then emulating it on PC

Which requires getting it through not legal means

But you still supported them if you bought a copy so

[fresh hinge]

If you own the game on switch you can do so legally by dumping it to the emulator

[flint sedge]

Hi guys. I installed the HDR Max Luminance fix but HGIG doesn't seem to work. When I set tone mapping on the screen it sets max luminance but tone mapping itself doesn't seem to work.

[tawdry delta]

Oh interesting, I assumed they just paid for a copy and then it collected dust physically

[flint sedge]

Is there any other way we can fix tone mapping to have real HDR experience?

Thanks in advance

And sorry for interrupting

[thick salmon]

This wasn't such a case. And this isoff topic. Feel free to discuss it in #💬chat

[tawdry delta]

No you're more on topic I'll shut up

[lavish vessel]

b/c devs don't care

[fresh hinge]

Does the latest hotfix from nixxes fix it? HZD HDR was never fixed at all

[lavish vessel]

HGIG disables tonemapping and the game doesn't support windows calibration, just set peak brightness to ~ what your display peak is

[flint sedge]

Nope, it's not a priority issue

[fresh hinge]

Well it is priority to me!! 😂

[flint sedge]

So you recommend for this game to use Tone Mapping option and set peak brightness and good to go?

Problem is that I can't see difference between lights and shadow areas

They're equally luminiscent

Looks good, but it's not a dynamic range per se

[tawdry delta]

What is Nyx cooking

[fresh hinge]

Did you install the HDR fix from this thread?

[flint sedge]

Yep

Just throw two files on game exes path and ready?

Is it?

It seems to fix peak brightness but not game tone mapping

[lavish vessel]

No, HGiG + peak brightness in game, for example if you have LG C series TV that would be 800 nits in game with HGiG on

[grand yacht]

Real life snap I took with settings that fairly represent what a good Mini-LED can look like in HDR regarding black depth / punchiness etc.

This one is the Neo G7 w/ 1200x zones and a 4K VA panel, it can do good HDR - but what I noticed with these panels is that although the peak brightness on test patterns is quite high (1200~1300 nits on 10% windows), the real scene brightness is actually lower than OLEDs because of the dimming algo having to do so much work to fight against blooming artifacts.

Of course the smaller the highlight -> the more the peak brightness has to be rolled back, so scenes with starfields etc. end up looking very dim. In fully bright colourful scenes they look amazing though since there's less aggressive ABL.

I retired that monitor and just stick with my OLED UltraWide and 4K TV.

[flint sedge]

That's the problem. HGIG does nothing for me

Disabling tone mapping options or using HGIG in this game is the same

So the game doesn't seem to be sending the data needed to run HGIG

[lavish vessel]

HGiG needs no data, it disables tonemapping, so everything above display peak is clipped

[flint sedge]

But as I said then game looks like HDR disabled

(with this game)

Someone said for dynamic tone mapping to work you need to use lilium shaders

[fresh hinge]

Took this earlier. Camera doesn’t do it justice though (edit probably not the right way to do this)

[flint sedge]

OK now HGIG works. I don't know why previous launch was the same

Installed fix, launch game, the same. Closed game. Installed Reshade + Lilium shaders, no settings were tweaked, just relaunch the game. Now HGIG works.

[tawdry delta]

im curious what bigger priorities nixxes could possibly have

what is more glaringly broken and easy to fix

[wide schooner]

What if on certain older LG monitor's, HGig has a serious brightness hit compared to DTM.

Should it still be used over DTM.

[celest nest]

yeah i don't get it sometimes. it's literally commenting out a line of code. without the fix the game simply cannot look at its best. it's still a rather tiny subset of users that can enable hdr, but still, come on

[steel phoenix]

I disagree with "most". Also, plenty of these shows and movies have HDR in name only. And very few people I talk to irl care about HDR, even many huge movie buffs I know (I went to school for it and know a lot of people in the field locally).

[celest nest]

unless it's not prioritized because we have an unofficial fix, lol. then i'd agree and rather have them fix something I can't first, like the hud not being 21:9. but even then, there's not much to prioritize when we're talking about commenting out a line of code

[fringe agate]

Thank you, this has been plaguing me so much

[fringe agate]

I found that it's fine WOLED screens, I think it's to do with QD-OLED panels and their different ABL curve

[limpid bronze]

Thanks for the HDR fix! @celest nest Do you also use lilium's black floor fix?

[celest nest]

no, i haven't noticed raised black levels

[limpid bronze]

Ok thanks.

[steel phoenix]

It's could be the QA validation involved with each patch that holds back some of the easiest fixes in games.

I've worked behind the scenes on some stuff and everyone in the game's community knew that all they had to do was change one value in the engine tags to fix something, but since the issue was pretty minor it didn't get fixed for a long time because everything has to go through some rigorous QA process regardless

[azure rivet]

Ersh what do you mean by putting files next to game.exe? Do you mean copying those two files into the directory where the game is in?

[fresh hinge]

Place them in the same directory as the .exe

[azure rivet]

.exe as in the game launher?

launcher*

[fresh hinge]

Game route. Yeah

[azure rivet]

Yeah that shit still didn't work game still capped at 300 nits paper white

I been trying for a whole day yesterday

[fresh hinge]

Two files yes?

[azure rivet]

correct

the two files that was provided

[celest nest]

next to the exe as in here

[azure rivet]

yess that's how mines looks

[fresh hinge]

Yes adjust the max luminance and then go in game. It’s not going to show over 300 at the calibration anyway.

[flint sedge]

do you recommend to use any lilium preset alongside with the fix?

@celest nest

[fringe agate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HorizonForbiddenWest/comments/1blkvuf/psa_nvidia_gsync_vrr_players/

Any Merit to this post?

[celest nest]

yea but hotfixes usually don't really have to go through this. or, well, shouldn't

[azure rivet]

Hmmm i set it too 1k nits didn't look alll that difference in game to watever knits i put

[celest nest]

i don't think anything is needed? but you should do what you think looks best

[azure rivet]

Its actuall brighter when i use the rtx hdr featuer from nvidia but i don't want to use that cause of the performance impact

[fresh hinge]

Check it with HDR Analysis shader. Massive improvement for me. Photo proof

[azure rivet]

How do i get that?

[vital quartz]

The game is very.......yellow/brown

[azure rivet]

Yeah my game is very dim also lol

[fringe agate]

what monitor do you have?

[azure rivet]

aw3225qf

[fringe agate]

yeah it has an agressive ABL, especially if you use peak1000

my LG oled shows the image plenty bright

[azure rivet]

So i'm fucked?

[fringe agate]

bump up paperwhite or swap to Trueblack400

everyone with QD-OLEDs has been complaining about the image being dim

[azure rivet]

No but it doesn't seem like the fix did anything, the luminance slider still broken, the brightness in game is the same no matter how many knits i set it too

[fringe agate]

are you sure the mod is working for you?

[azure rivet]

i'm positive that it isn't working

[fresh hinge]

Install ReShade. Unselect all in list during the install. Check Lilium HDR shaders to install. Enable HDR Analysis shader in game after ReShade compiles. Press Home key to open ReShade UI

[fringe agate]

download reshade for the game and install the lilium hdr shaders

[fringe agate]

this

[azure rivet]

I don't even know wth is Reshade

Nor what lilium is

[fresh hinge]

https://reshade.me/

[fringe agate]

gonna warn you, if you're a perpetual tinkerer kinda person this is gonna ruin your life

[fresh hinge]

When you install it for Forbidden West game .exe it will ask you which graphic api the game runs. Choose the one with DirectX 12. Then it asks you which shader effects you want to install. Deselect all and scroll down for the Lilium HDR Shaders. Install those.

[amber badger]

Same here, had too actually put luminance to 168 from 236. I was getting a headache 🤡

[azure rivet]

OK done

[azure rivet]

I'll be fine

[mint crystal]

Ooh, there's a DX11 mode? That makes modding easier.

[fresh hinge]

Yeah so run the game. Wait for ReShade to compile. Press home key. In the ui list enable HDR Analysis. What is the max ccl say in game? Not menu. In game play.

[azure rivet]

OH okay but before all that , game looks better now for some reason

[fresh hinge]

I think Lilium and ReShade is required for the mod I think??

[fringe agate]

There's a good discussion about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1bes9ju/comment/kuws9sg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[azure rivet]

Is it required or am i just tripping lol

[fringe agate]

it's not

just need to dump the 2 files next to the executable

[azure rivet]

I don't see HDR analysis

[amber badger]

Nice, I'll have a further read later but I have turned off abl on my cx with the service remote. Some dark movies would dim over time so annoying

[fringe agate]

it's called lilium something

[fresh hinge]

No Lilium shaders at all in ReShade GUI? Means you didn’t add them. Run ReShade install again and add them in ReShade effects list. In the effect list to assign there should be effects by Lilium.

[fringe agate]

that's different

[azure rivet]

Here u go

[fringe agate]

this is about the direct change in luminance based on the APL

[fringe agate]

looks perfect

[azure rivet]

Really? wtf

[broken condor]

You haven't? That's the first thing I noticed. But maybe it's just cause I'm used to SK's HDR that's -always- 0.0 black, I can spot non-zero black a mile away.

[fresh hinge]

It’s worken

[broken condor]

I had to figure out how to use that shader for this game 🙂

Not complicated of course, I've just never had a need for it

[fringe agate]

yeah, you can see that maxNits is 1k, which is what you set it to. and there's plenty of the image above 300 nits as you can see in the histogram in the bottom right

[azure rivet]

Okay so i was right because when i loaded it right now it looks brighter than it did from yesterday even the white logo in the intro pops

[fringe agate]

I guess you subconsciously did something different

[fresh hinge]

Glad to help you bro! 😎

[azure rivet]

The only different thing i did was install reshade. Hey but thanks a lot man really appriciate your help. Now i can enjoy this masterpiece

[fringe agate]

does it look correct to you in game now?

[fresh hinge]

I use this shader all the time now because nearly every godforsaken game on windows had broken hdr and the Analysis shader tells you exactly in most cases

[fringe agate]

yeah, HDR on pc is cursed, and this game is another exmaple of that

[azure rivet]

It looks liike RTX HDR butr without the performance impact

[fringe agate]

because RTX HDR is trying to get to this image but by using AI inferencing

[fresh hinge]

But better though

[fringe agate]

RTX HDR cannot however figure out if white is just a white surface, a light, a sun or UI for example

and it has to work with less information

[azure rivet]

I think HZD HDR is better though

[fringe agate]

and it crushes blacks

and it has banding xD

[azure rivet]

like way better but the graphics for this game is unmatched

[fringe agate]

because HZD was broken too, but you can fix it with liliums shaders too

[fresh hinge]

Oh HZD is even worse mate.

[fringe agate]

the hdr tonemapper, use bt2446 and give the old max level as 10k and the new level as your monitors peak

[azure rivet]

Hzd will blind you if you stare at the sun i don't know about this one havn't gotten that far yet

[fringe agate]

this game doesn't have that

they fixed that at least

[fresh hinge]

Yeah cause HZD is too bright! 😂 HZD doesn’t tone map properly

[azure rivet]

Yeah i like it like that it like it when i have to squint it's hella immersive

Is Reshade better than SpecialK?

[fresh hinge]

If you run HDR Analysis on HZD the luminance graph is peaking at 10,000 regardless of what you set the max value to in the game. Tone mapping shader is necessary to preserve the highlight details.

[fringe agate]

the lilium shader is imo more userfriendly and powerful, but for HDR special K does a lot fo cool stuff that Reshade cannot compete with

[tawdry delta]

What the hell does more powerful mean if it can't compete

[fresh hinge]

I’ve never used SK. What does it do?

[fringe agate]

the lilium shaders can fix natve implementations, and they give more information about the hdr. there is also shaders that can add hdr like renodx(it's an addon technically) and pumbo. however Special K can remaster the whole rendering pipeline and add hdr to games that don't have it, as well as do more metadata related stuff

overall, I use both of them for different things

if a game has no hdr I use special K, if it does have hdr I use lilium to analyse it and fix if needed.

RenoDX is gamespecific and still in development but it's better than Special K and pumbo and even native in for example cyberpunk

[azure rivet]

Ah i see. I'm not adept at using Sk neither but was just barely able to manage making certain games work and when it does it's beautfiul

[fringe agate]

check #🧩renodx-dev

[fringe agate]

yeah special k is kinda magic, it takes the available buffers of the game, forces them to be wider and makes them work with HDR, then tonemaps them too. it's very close to native.

[tawdry delta]

I kind of hate HDR because it's better than SDR but it's all fucking broken

So it's like I have to use it but I have to fix everything now

[fringe agate]

yeah, it's a mess

[fresh hinge]

On windows it’s a mess. Consoles get special treatment

Mostly

[strange fiber]

Wait what is the fix for HZD forbidden west?

[azure rivet]

Definitely. I just wish it works with steam games.

[strange fiber]

Special K? darn.....what about rtx hdr?

[grand yacht]

The slider for max HDR peak brightness is broken in the release version of the game. It only goes to 300 nits in reality.

[strange fiber]

yea thats what i heard. There's a mod in nexus supposedly...i tried but i can't tell if it worked

Someone told me to come here for a fix..

[fresh hinge]

That’s cool, but now we have more options like RTX HDR. If a game does not have native hdr I’m unlikely to add it

[azure rivet]

RTX HDR lags too much for my taste but it looks real good though.

[strange fiber]

So whats the fix everyone was talking aboujt?

[grand yacht]

Works perfect. See here -> #1220402379321770027 message

Files must be in the same folder as the .exe of the game.

[strange fiber]

ok thanks. Yea I installed that. Ican'[t really tell if its working or not

[broken condor]

That's just a post-process filter

Though in D3D12, SK's not much more than that either 🤣

In D3D11 and OpenGL, SK's HDR is vastly more sophisticated than it is in D3D12. The low-level APIs don't like to be messed with a whole lot.

[broken condor]

That Nexus mod is the same thing that's here. It's also built-in to SK now.

[grand yacht]

Alien Isolation is a great example of a game that benefits a lot from SK HDR, I am glad it exists. Very impressive results on this older title.

[strange fiber]

yea i installed the nexus mod in the main folder and I can't tell if its working or not

[fresh hinge]

ReShade Lilium HDR Analysis Shader can tell you if it is. It displays the hdr source

[strange fiber]

k ty

[fringe agate]

it does, just not multiplayer.

[broken condor]

Does that one support Steam and Epic?

[broken condor]

lol, why wouldn't it work with Steam games?
I hate Steam's DRM, that much is true, but SK has a ton of Steam-only features. That's its number one platform, largely because that's where all the users are. I don't really care for Steam myself anymore, they've rendered my game library unusable.

[strange fiber]

btw, random question. Anyone got a decent save far along in the story? i had it on ps5 really don't wanna start over totally llol

[fringe agate]

if you value image quality or performance RTX hdr is not a solution, I only use it for multiplayer games, or tarkov to "cheat"/fix. The lightingin that game is so bad that you can't see shit, so I bumped down the contrast to -50 so now it looks like I have minecraft nightvision

[fresh hinge]

I could tell the forbidden west hdr mod was working without hdr analysis lol

[fringe agate]

same for me, but if you look on reddit, plenty of people were praising it for looking fantastic while being capped at 300. even found one who was actively post-truthing everywhere trying to discredit everyone who pointed out that it was broken.

[fresh hinge]

Certainly. RTX HDR is still cool to play around with

[fresh hinge]

I was one of them to be honest. Didn’t test with Lilium haha

[fringe agate]

you've been forgiven xD

[broken condor]

SK doesn't have the explicit numbers, but it has real-time heatmap, and gamut coverage map as its visualizations.
Lilium's solution's better if you need to find a problem with black floor and quantify just how much black is raised, etc. But SK can also get you confirmation quickly whether a game's calibration screen is doing anything 🙂
You can also load ReShade into the game while it's already running (Ctrl+Alt+Shift_R) to have a quick peek at things with Lilium's shaders.

You shouldn't need either tool to tell something's wrong with this game though.

I don't know who plays games at 300 nits, but apparently it's a lot? 😛

[amber badger]

I think that's also because a lot of "hdr" capable monitors are just a sticker on a box lol

[fringe agate]

I wish it was like that, because the whole oled gaming sub was circlejerking

[azure rivet]

When i try to load a steam game it keep giving me an error message saying i cacnnot use specialk or something like? Am i doing something wrong?

[mint crystal]

Windows started WCG more recently. Reality is if you wanted bt2020, you needed HDR or some custom nonsense with icc profiles. Displays broke out of bt709 a while ago, but no way to really interface with it without "HDR".

[rose sail]

Hitting 1000 perfectly

[broken condor]

No idea

Maybe you cracked the game? There's a message if SteamAPI's been modified, cause SK has to turn stuff off very quickly in order to not crash if that happens.

[azure rivet]

No wtf it's wprking now on all my steam games lol

I dunno wtf happen

[azure rivet]

From my past expereince only cracked games work with specialk and any games i legit bought off steam never worked with specialk but it seems to be working just fine now.

[fresh hinge]

No offence but it’s user error lol 😂

[azure rivet]

hahahahah

[broken condor]

This isn't without its problems 😕 They added WCG for SDR displays, but have yet to make the V2 Windows Advanced Color Capabilities API public, so to anything other than the Windows Display settings, those SDR WCG displays are showing up in the only API that exists to check if a display supports HDR.

I know that new capabilities API exists, because the numbered strucutre showed up in docs very briefly about a year ago, then disappeared.

So, laughably, a Steam Deck (original model that's only 68% sRGB coverage) declares itself Advanced Color capable, and software assumes that means HDR.

But it's neither HDR nor WCG. I don't know what that's about, I think Valve is just trolling Windows users like asses 🙂

[celest nest]

yea

[celest nest]

i think caves are foggy but the black floor isn’t actually raised?

[amber badger]

That's just reddit lmao

[fringe agate]

r*ddit🤮

I am a heavy reddit user though, they even offered me the IPO, but you have to murican for it

[grand yacht]

That stock will pump and dump pretty fast like most IPOs. You are dodging a bullet by not being allowed to invest in it.

[weary ridge]

I used to be a heavy reddit user too, but it is almost as toxic as the steam forums now. I don't have the time and/or patience to deal with the idiocity.

[dusky jolt]

guys anyone having an issue with hdr where there is a grayish filter being added when u turn hdr on?

the only way i can fix it is if i switch to sdr then turn hdr on and not change any setting (but after a couple of desktop switches or alt-tab, the gray color returns)

[fringe agate]

Oh I know, especially reddit.

[fringe agate]

yeah slowly pulling back too, am getting too old and have less time for it now.

[fringe agate]

Turn on HDR in windows, then turn it on in the launcher and it should work

don't turn it off or on in the game

[worn bloom]

paperwhite 236 still considered standard or it's a preference thing?

I was using 250 in Ratchet so I don't think it would be that different

[dusky jolt]

same issue unfortunately :/

i guess i'll keep having to toggle hdr whenever that happens for now

[pallid hawk]

Nah. It doesn't.

Either you don't realise it or.... pretending?

I mean only AA methods (TAA, DLAA) works with it. If any upscaling method is enabled fg is not working.

[dusky jolt]

it does work

[weary ridge]

DLAA is kinda broken if you use non 16:9 resolution on a 16:9 screen

like 21:9

[dusky jolt]

i just tested 4K DLAA without FG on my 3080 (getting 50fps) and when i turn it on it feels smoother (70-80 fps)

[weary ridge]

I'm testing 21:9 3840x1600 and DLAA is streching/bluring the image

TAA looks good

[pallid hawk]

That's what I meant. It works when anti aliasing methods are enabled. TAA, DLAA also with SMAA i think. But doesn't when upscaling is enabled.

Try enabling dlss and fg, it isn't smooth. Fps counter might show higher fps but its the same base fps

Is this the reason nukem mod doesn't work properly?

[weary ridge]

the base fps is lower with FG enabled by around 15%

[pallid hawk]

Yeah. Close to base fps

[weary ridge]

so if you get something like 50fps without FG then with FG you get 43fps x 2 aka 86 but with 43 base fps

[hidden urchin]

4070ti I’m having to use DLSS at 1440p/1080p at max settings 4k but it’s working pretty well all things considered for a 1.0

[pallid hawk]

Hows frame generation?

[fresh hinge]

RTX 3080 12gb I was getting 75-110fps 3440x1440p DLSS quality

Ultra

[hidden urchin]

I have it on, doesn’t seem to be affecting too much for me personally but will check it out a bit more. It kinda depends if you are in an open area or not too I’ve noticed (as with any game really)

[weary ridge]

4080 here and 4K DLAA 60-70 avg fps or kinda locked 115 with fg

[pallid hawk]

Using any fps counters? Use it So that you can understand if the smooth enuf according to the generated frames.

[tulip canopy]

4090 here dlss drs with a 90fps lock or dlss balanced with a 90fps lock

[pallid hawk]

Try dlss and fg and check if its smooth as shown by boosted fps

[weary ridge]

it's smooth

[pallid hawk]

Hmm

[weary ridge]

dlss with fg is just is 58fps x 2 in my case

I use gsync too

don't use reflex with boost tho

21:9 DLAA fixed itself, not sure how but it works now

you have to feed 3840x2160p to it for sure not 3840x1600

or I guess the native res of the screen

[hidden urchin]

Frameview has me at 112ishfps with 83fps 1% Lows at 1440p

95ish FPS with 75 FPS Lows at 2160p

reflex + boost, DLSS Balanced and FG on both

[dusky jolt]

@pallid hawk i think u might be right

i just tested the mod with dlaa+fg and aloy's shadow is slightly blurred when running

but when i use dlss + fg, the shadow remains sharp

[weary ridge]

try it without boost

[dusky jolt]

and generally u would assume that FG issues with DLSS should be more obvious than with DLAA, not the opposite lol

in terms of smoothness i cant tell the difference bcz my fps is already high dlss

[hidden urchin]

Still about 85-92ish without Boost MPaul

[weary ridge]

I just tested it and her shadow looks okay? idk

[dusky jolt]

are u using dlssg -> fg mod or just dlssg

ill send a pic

[weary ridge]

interesting, turning off boost increased performance by about 15-20% on my end

[weary ridge]

ahh you are talking about the fg mod

not the HDR mod lol

[dusky jolt]

yea lol

[weary ridge]

my bad I have a 4080

[hidden urchin]

Yeah this is one of those games where there’s a lot going on, perhaps something isn’t utilized on my system even though I’m updated software and driver wise

Generally pretty content with 90ish with no frame drop/ timing issues. that’s the big one for me personally since that’s what brings stutters

[weary ridge]

consistent 90fps is good enough tbh, even with FG

not perfect since it's 45+45 fps but perfectly playable

[hidden urchin]

Exactly, there’s a big drop off from 90 to 80 to 70ti series cards so I can’t be thinking like some of you big boys that I’ll be able to play 4k with no DLSS

I’ll probably go 5090 since I’ve been on 70 series cards for like 3 builds now but will have to donate a lung for that build

[weary ridge]

I will never buy a xx90 series card haha

the 5080 is going to cost more than the current 4090

[hidden urchin]

I’m usually content on 8’s myself too, definitely will be a “why the heck not” moment since as you said the cost is just absurd these days.

It’s just stuff like this where I’m right on the cusp of 60 FPS which just kills me internally

[weary ridge]

throwing $2500 + tax which is around 30% here at a 5090 is too much even if I can afford it

[hidden urchin]

Ugh that tax seems brutal sorry man, I’d prob max out at $2k too myself so if 9 series are at that price then as you said just not worth it. Especially with cards coming out so often

But yeah I’m pretty content with max settings/ 4k display / balanced DLSS and FG for anyone who was wondering on a 4070ti. About 80-90 FPS with 1% Lows at 65

HDR wise I’m having to use HGIG with a paper white of like 550 on a C3

[amber badger]

Probs gonna get the 5080 which might be around 1100 eur over here

[weary ridge]

yea welcome to Hungary haha, same $2k max after tax

[weary ridge]

nah closer to 1500-1600

[hidden urchin]

I’ve always had issues setting up HGIG with how dark it looks. Had to increase the paper white to 500

Games only looks “good” to me a lot of the time with DTM because it’s too dark. To be fair all this display calibration stuff is a bit above my head but do my best

[weary ridge]

Let's move to chat btw

[hidden urchin]

Yeah Im trying to pivot it back too into HDR talk, was a nice chat though MPaul!

HGIG 1050/550/1/0 Looks pretty good for me on a c3 but who the heck knows why and a bunch of people may say it’s too saturated who knows

[dusky jolt]

@pallid hawk here is a video that shows fg might not be working with upscalers since the shadow has FG artifacts only with DLAA+FG but not DLSS Quality + FG

[tulip canopy]

yeah I'm going to stick to dlss drs then lol

[pallid hawk]

So its confirmed FG isn't working with upscale methods.

[dusky jolt]

idk if it's confirmed. maybe aloy's shadow has artifacts with DLAA+FG for some random reason but doesnt in DLSS + FG

imo it's unlikely that's the case bcz it seems so arbitrary

but it isnt direct proof either way

[tulip canopy]

Enable the dlss debug overlay and it should tell you

It's under the dlss indicator tab in special k

And it'll be enabled without sk too I think

[weary ridge]

but only if you use the FG mod, native FG works fine

[tulip canopy]

Oh. I thought he was using dlss frame gen. My bad

There is still that one patreon pay walled fsr 3 frame gen mod

Which only requires you to enable dlss

It doesn't "link" itself to dlss frame gen

[sonic pawn]

I honestly couldn’t tell the difference between perfomance mod and native with DLAA

[tulip canopy]

Really? Hmm it was kinda obvious to me

Foliage had more shimmering

It you get less and less shimmer with higher dlss resolutions

And it goes away pretty much with dlaa

[weary ridge]

DLAA helps with foliage shimmering yea

but that's the only really noticeable difference between DLAA and TAA in this game

[sonic pawn]

I did. Fixed for me

[fringe agate]

can't even get it to work with DLAA

[grand yacht]

regarding the shimmering, have you tried turning down the default 5/10 sharpening filter? it's really aggressive at 5

[fringe agate]

honestly, put the sharpening to 0

[grand yacht]

absolutely, it's what I did and didn't look back

[fringe agate]

are you using sk?

[dusky jolt]

nope, nukem9

[weary ridge]

works fine on my end

what GPU?

[fringe agate]

I meant special K

[fringe agate]

hmm

[fringe agate]

3080 10g

[weary ridge]

ahh ok you are using the mod

[fringe agate]

yeah, or at least, trying xD

what does your log say?

This is all mine is

[tulip canopy]

I always turn that shit off

[weary ridge]

It's interesting, but after DLAA fixed itself, not sure what the problem was, I tested the sharpening filter, and 0 sharpness native res, without AA or SMAA, looks as sharp as DLAA with 5 sharpness

so i think the default 5 is fine, I notice no shimmering with DLAA though

it depends on the resolution I guess

[dusky jolt]

did u just install nukem9's mod and that's it?

[fringe agate]

yeah the dbghelp one

and I have special K running

[dusky jolt]

hmm i see. i used the first option in nexus and i dont have special k running but ill test the dbghelp one now separately

[fringe agate]

do you have reflex enabled?

[dusky jolt]

its forced

[fringe agate]

or any nvcp tweaks?

[dusky jolt]

nope

the mod works with the dbghelp version for me (no special k yet)

[thick salmon]

So, this was filmed without any mods installed? Even when deactivated?

[dusky jolt]

yes no mods other than nukem9's mod to enable FG for my 3080 gpu

[dusky jolt]

do u have special k installed globally? im doing the local install with dxgi.dll and its telling me i have to remove sl.dlss_g.dll

[fringe agate]

you can't do it locally

Nixxes games are extremely wonky with sk

you need to do it via SKIF

[dusky jolt]

oh alright

[fringe agate]

ok it seems like special K is conflicting

ok funny one

for me dlss quality + fg works perfectly fine

getting 140 fps

[dusky jolt]

yes it does increase the fps

do u find it smoother tho?

(at this point i have lost trust in my eyes xD)

[fringe agate]

yeah

but rtss is capable of showing the bad framepacing

and my monitors osd is reporting a fairly stable framerate

and the osd is usually way more errating than the real fps

[dusky jolt]

can u try the same test i did in the video (sprinting sideways and seeing if aloy's shadow is blurry only with DLAA + FG)?

[fringe agate]

the test is the same yeah

but keep in mind, fg works better at higher base framerates

[dusky jolt]

true but my fps is already high in both

[fringe agate]

so fsr could be resolving the interpolation better because of the smaller difference in frames

just like with TAA, higher framerates result in less blur and artifacting

[thick salmon]

Please move this now quite long haha non-HDR discussion to #💬chat please to keep this topic... on-topic haha

[fringe agate]

srry

[wide schooner]

LG owners - are you using DTM or HGiG?

Ive got the SDR picture looking damn near identical in HGiG mode but as usual, its not as bright. Im on a CX.

[weary ridge]

C1 user here and HGiG

something is wrong on your end then, the game looks fantastic with HGiG, SDR looks very "dull" in comparison

DTM rises avg picture brightness too much imo

and it's also slow

[wide schooner]

Then something weird is happening. I've got the fix installed also. With HDR configured in game : 'OFF' in the CX settings gives a brighter picture than HGiG. Overall brightness and highlights. That's weird right..

Does that mean my settings are bad/wrong?

[weary ridge]

did you calibrate the TV using the windows HDR calibration app?

[wide schooner]

I did.

[weary ridge]

with HGiG enabled?

[lavish vessel]

Never use DTM, it breaks PQ tracking to artificially boost brightness/contrast

[wide schooner]

I think no. I must've done it with DTM.

[weary ridge]

then that's the issue

rerun the calibration with HGiG

the peak brightness setting was way too high

it's around 4000 with DTM

[tired vapor]

what settings are people using in game on an LG C2 (or similar) after the HDR fix?

I played around and found maxing out the luminencse to 1500 and paperwhite to 286 gave a nice image, not sure if this is too much though

anything lower than 1000 I found to be too dim

[devout hazel]

Guys did some of yours or anyone here spammed-told-reminded NixXes about the HDR issue ?

I saw someone in comments from Gaming4tech ( amok4all ) that they are aware

[wide schooner]

I recalibrated with HGiG. Still the same result. 'Off' and 'DTM' still give a brighter image but the accuracy is off. The clouds are all banded together. HGiG breaks everything apart nicely.

HDR settings : 1350, 800, 3, -3

[fringe agate]

Kaldaien got confirmation that they are aware

[devout hazel]

Who is kaldaien ? Anyway nice 🫡

[fringe agate]

developer of Special K

[weary ridge]

whats 1350?

Try 790-800(Windows HDR app calibrated peak brightness)/236/0/0

if you got 1350 peak with the windows HDR calbiration app then something is still off

800 paper white is way way way too high btw

also ignore the in-game calibration screen, that's off

[wide schooner]

Here's the win calibration at 1060 max luminance still showing the visible boxes.

Surely for the win calibration, it should go as high as it can?

[weary ridge]

if HGiG is enabled the boxes shouldnt be visible past 800

maybe some other setting is messing with the app

[broken condor]

Some kind of AI cat

[wide schooner]

Hmm could be. Rechecking...

[weary ridge]

@wide schooner LG CX right? Enable HGiG, set the peak to 800 in the app, and use these in-game settings: 800/236/0/0 to test

maybe restart your PC or display driver after the calibration too

btw turn off the RTSS overlay while calibrating

[grand yacht]

NVIDIA beta app also breaks Win11 HDR calibration app for me, if you know your display peak brightness it's best to just do it by numbers and ignore the test pattern

[weary ridge]

It does? lol

[wide schooner]

Well that 800 is the problem it seems. Its too low. Ive checked eerything on Windows : night light off, afterburner gone, any 3rd party apps.

I am using 100 OLED light and Contrast in Game mode though, maybe thats it.

Atm, maximum luminance blends in around 1400 and max full frame luminance blends around 1200 :wtf

[weary ridge]

that's not too low, that's the correct setting for the CX

you should be using 100 OLED Brightness and Contrast while HDR is enabled that's correct

maybe some AI brightness or idk is enabled in the TV settings

just ignore the test pattern and set both settings to 800

[amber badger]

Make sure all your TV settings are correct, also under picture options etc. I could dm you my cx settings if you want

[weary ridge]

there is not much you can enable in game mode

AI brightness is the only setting which can be enabled I think

and ofc you should keep the screen brightness at 50 +/- 1-2(If the panel is not calibrated)

[wide schooner]

AI brightness was enabled - thats off now. But now my cable isnt working. What a night.. 😆

[weary ridge]

After testing the settings more, I think TAA is better than DLAA. There is something strange going on with DLAA, distant LOD can be over sharpened or blured, it's random? Even with sharpening set to 0. No issue like this with TAA. Dynamic DLSS res seems to change negative LOD bias on the fly too which is really annoying.

[tulip canopy]

Rip

[wide schooner]

@weary ridge Back in the game - seems ai brightness was the culprit. As you mentioned, everything blends in around the 800-850 mark.

I tried 800,236/0/0 and it looks ok. Abit less vibrant than i like but i can tweak it. Is the in-game HDR picture to be trusted?

Because according to that, your settings are not good when it comes to details. The clouds is banded together (on my CX anyway).

[weary ridge]

ignore the in-game calibration picture

and tweak the vibrancy etc to your liking ofc

TAA, sharpness/motion blur at 0, looks the best at 4K. Guerilla's/Decima's TAA implementation is surprisingly good

[tulip canopy]

Damn

[weary ridge]

with TAA distant LOD is more stable, zoomed in edges are smother, picture is sharper

[tulip canopy]

But what frame rate do you target

[weary ridge]

115 with FG

[tulip canopy]

Do you hit that?

[weary ridge]

yes

100-115

[tulip canopy]

Dope

I can probably lock to it then

[weary ridge]

with a 4090? absolutely

[tulip canopy]

Ye

Imma try 4k 90fps though for a bit longer

The latency is very nice

And res wise it doesn't drop below balanced dlss it seems

[wide schooner]

Are there any optimization guides out yet? Wouldnt mind a few more fps on my 7800xt.

[tulip canopy]

Except in cutscenes

[tulip canopy]

Nein

[weary ridge]

do you notice the negative lod bias change on distant lod textures?

[tulip canopy]

I haven't played much like this

Because I only recently discovered that dlss drs can be smooth if you set a frame rate cap lower than it

[weary ridge]

nope, Alex from DF is working onit

[tulip canopy]

Be default settings it to 90 or smth causes wobbly frame pacing when it activates

But if you set it to 105 with a 90fps cap

It's smooth

[weary ridge]

dldsr + dlss?

[tulip canopy]

Nein

Dynamic dlss

[weary ridge]

ahh ok

[tulip canopy]

100fps should be doable as well

But I'm not sure if my cpu is quite up to the task

Plus you'd probably need to set drs to 120

Which will lead it to dipping to performance during gameplay

I'm not even talking about in fights. I'm talking just looking at a more demanding area.

While standing still

[weary ridge]

if I can hit 70 avg fps without FG native res then you should be able to hit 90 at native res

[tulip canopy]

So with dlaa and while looking at the "more demanding area"

I was hitting about 80 iirc

Or in the 80s I don't remember

[weary ridge]

what's your display's refresh rate?

[tulip canopy]

Lg c1

[weary ridge]

ah ok

same

[tulip canopy]

So I think frame gen should bring that up to 116

But man what's more annoying

[weary ridge]

with FG you would hit 115 fps (reflex max) all the time

[tulip canopy]

Ui bugs or mip map bugs

[weary ridge]

hmm

[tulip canopy]

Yeah and taa should be more performant than dlaa

[weary ridge]

I noticed no issues so far

[tulip canopy]

I've noticed them a ton in like a dragon infinite wealth

Haven't played forbidden west with frame gen much though

[weary ridge]

motion blur sure casues all kind of issues if you enable FG

but I saw no artifacts since I disabled it

[tulip canopy]

I don't use motion blur

[tulip canopy]

This is true right?

[weary ridge]

it is

[tulip canopy]

I've found that dlaa tends to drop your gpu performance by 10%

[weary ridge]

not by much though

[tulip canopy]

Ok cool

[weary ridge]

5-6%? maybe

[tulip canopy]

That's something though

[weary ridge]

yea

[tulip canopy]

That can be the difference between hitting your 116 target

Or dropping below

Granted it probably won't be too bad to drop below since reflex is engaged

But sometimes the stability is quite nice. Sk's 90fps limiter feels really nice

[weary ridge]

I can't get 100% GPU utilization with reflex + boost it stays around 90% wich is quite strange

it should only sacrifice around 1%

[tulip canopy]

I preferred it over running uncapped

[tulip canopy]

I never use boost

I just force max perf in the nvcp

[weary ridge]

yea it's not really needed

[tulip canopy]

Boost causes weird issues like that sometimes

So I avoid it

Except for indie games maybe

Also can't forget that frame gen will stop working in cutscenes sometimes?

Or when you pull up certain ui stuff(weapon wheel)

[weary ridge]

anyways the game runs fine so far the first 1-2 hours should represent the whole game, but I still need to test performance during big machine fights

[tulip canopy]

Not a big deal, but some are bothered by it

[weary ridge]

it turns off in the menu but not during cutscenes

if you pause the game FG is turned off

[tulip canopy]

Rip

[weary ridge]

btu thats not really an issue

you have to press esc for that

[vital quartz]

FG and DLAA is awesome

[weary ridge]

FG and TAA is even better in this game haha

[vital quartz]

I'll try it.

What's the consensus on the HDR? Obvs with the fix

[weary ridge]

it looks good I think

[tulip canopy]

It's OK I guess

[vital quartz]

Some areas and time of day looks great, others look very gamey

[weary ridge]

no black level rise

[tulip canopy]

But it's internally clipped

[vital quartz]

Coming straight from Avatar, this looks more basic I'd say. Lack of RT I guess

[tulip canopy]

So it looks kinda meh imo

[weary ridge]

yea especially night time can look funny and sunrise/set is way too orange but that's the art style of the game

[vital quartz]

Yeah the game is basically your avatar

[tulip canopy]

You don't have to go through any reshade madness at least

[vital quartz]

It looks good though! I was blown away by Avatar though, and they play so similarly

[tulip canopy]

And it's probably better than using special k or pumbo's shader

Or the similar

[vital quartz]

Yeah it is. I tried SKs on day 1 before the HDR fix. Couldn't get happy with it

[weary ridge]

avatar is a pretty but kinda generic/basic game

I only spent a few hours testing it

later areas in forbidden west, especially the jungle looks really good

[vital quartz]

Cool, looking forward to getting there. Burnt out on it a bit today though

Combat is an improvement, but I feel like I'm not doing quite enough damage! Spongey machines, though maybe I'm doing it wrong

[weary ridge]

same story, use the focus, aim at the weak spots

shoot canisters with elemental arrows

PS5 capture from 2 years ago, that ambient cloud/mist generation is still very good looking imo

[sonic pawn]

My HGiG looks good on my oled BX as well. But sometimes it looks off in certain games or certain scenes.

[amber badger]

Def scan for weaknesses and switch between different elemental damage, machines go down easy if you know their elemental weaknesses and hit canasters

[tulip canopy]

So at 1080p dlaa is sharper than the game's native taa

[uneven geyser]

I am getting this error message when I am using the HDR Fix in HFW. Thanks for your help!

Thanks again!

[hidden urchin]

Never seen a specific controller cause unplayable FPS drops before, must be annoying to be the one having to fix those type of bugs

As MPaul said at least it’s fixed now!

[weary ridge]

The newer version should work: #1220402379321770027 message

[weary ridge]

The hotfix (1.0.38.0) fixed the performance issues with the DualSense controller.

[celest nest]

yeah grab the one MPaul linked

[broken condor]

Ah, cool. There was a patch at some point 🙂

Didn't do anything useful though.

Bluetooth DualSense is cursed 🙂 250-500 Hz, vs 1000 Hz if you plug the thing in.
Is it any wonder they didn't even bother testing it wirelessly?

[rich lark]

I have never played with a DualSense controller but saw that "wired connection required" asterix and was a bit puzzled.

[pallid hawk]

Still the game has some kind of issues. Changing the graphics settings, especially upscaling methods like dlss to other and back to it, drops fps to low 20s.

I think game allots data from vram to system ram as said by alex DF, unnecessarily.

[granite bough]

Yep, to me when I visit new location the fps dropping by half, resetting game do the job

The issue for me is I can play in 4k on 3080 (10gb and 5800x3d) even with dlss at perf. Is like vram dropping and I have 4fps but the game dose not use whole vram

[lean hull]

That’s required for lots of games for haptics feedback and adaptive triggers to work.

Some games work wirelessly, but not most.

Thus you see a disclaimer in trailers when they market DualSense support that it needs to be wired for all features to function fully.

[lean hull]

My usage in 4K with 4090 goes a lot higher.

Like even rn in a cutscene alone SK is reporting 10.32GiB.

[fresh hinge]

Need to complete Horizon zero Dawn before I play forbidden west

[royal aurora]

Hey guys, new here, first time im trying SK and being a bit overloaded with all the settings, not sure if i set it up right?
Used the windows hdr calibration to set min to 0 and max to 800 (LG C2), ingame set to 800/235 (even with a mouse, dragging the slider doesnt let me choose the exact numbers, so its either 236 with 798 or this :p also set my lg to HGIG tonemapping and using the luminance fix.

If i enable perceptual boost it becomes really really bright, not sure its needed?

[fringe agate]

Use high textures

[grand yacht]

Still no UltraWide UI fix/mod out there in the wild?

[celest nest]

nope

[vital quartz]

With those settings you have there, you're not actually adjusting the HDR with SK.

What is it you're looking to achieve?

I'd suggest reading this if you haven't: https://wiki.special-k.info/en/HDR/Retrofit

[celest nest]

heh i've seen your previous post on my phone before you changed it, was the fix not working?

[vital quartz]

Personally I only use SK HDR for adding SK to games that don't already have it, or have a bad implementation. For this particular game, I'd suggest leaving the game's HDR as it is, though you will need Ersh's fix, either via the latest SK build, or by dropping the Ersh fix files (pinned) into the game directory

[celest nest]

was about to reply that it seems the fix isnt working for you hehe

[royal aurora]

Oh, guess because its passing through?

[celest nest]

ah, yeah.

[vital quartz]

Yep, it doesn't need changing

Typical use case is a game doesn't have HDR at all (e.g. Robocop). Then you fire up SK HDR, set your max luminance (as per the wiki guide), and pretty much just leave it on Preset 0. There's some other tweaking you can do, but you'll likely never need to touch 90% of the options.

But for this game, where the HDR is good (once you fix the bug with Ersh's fix!), there's no need for SK HDR at all

[royal aurora]

Ahh makes sense, thank you 🙂

ill still use it for the frame pacing though ❤️

SK i mean

[vital quartz]

Same!

[lean hull]

We're with the same setup.

Select scRGB HDR from top, and then ALT+ENTER once, and then ALT+ENTER again, so it populates the options there.

And then use these settings.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220414721342312589/1221131679058497597/image.png?ex=6611767f&is=65ff017f&hm=68bb717a16bf78059e2cd1e972f6574780e2f9c4677d89c7fa72cf41a613d16b&

Rest of it with calibration and all is good.

Make sure you apply Ersh's mod, but that's not needed since you're using SK and that automatically applies it.

[weary ridge]

Same with the 4080, VRAM usage goes up to 11gb or something

[lean hull]

Hmm

I wonder why is theirs so low then?

[weary ridge]

whats the problem with the ui?

[celest nest]

it's not ultrawide

well the hud

it's centered to 16:9

[weary ridge]

no idea, the game seems to cache textures and the vram usage is always around 10-11gb

[weary ridge]

not on my screen?

[celest nest]

huh

[grand yacht]

It doesn't go into the corners like it did in Zero Dawn on 21:9

[granite bough]

On all screens is 16:9

[weary ridge]

I tested 21:9 and the hud placement was correct

[celest nest]

we need pics as proof lol

[weary ridge]

ok lol

[lean hull]

aye, weird shit.

Why would TPU lie to us.

[vital quartz]

Are you seeing improvements pushing through scRGB?

Kal himself said not to bother here so I was gonna keep it simple

[lean hull]

Lol, Kal had me set it to scRGB but that was for tonemapping.

As the screenshots coming out of HDR10 were insane.

But he figured out what was wrong with it, so that's fixed.

So, I maaaaaaaay go back to HDR10.

I do feel like HDR10 has more 'pop' than when scRGB applied.

Do you feel the same?

Like just test it in menu, the red pop on those grooves in menu.

Bushes, that is.

[vital quartz]

I've not tried tbh. Away from PC but will do later.

[lean hull]

aye

scRGB usually is supposed to have more of a pop, correct?

Generally speaking, that is.

Not the other way around?

[weary ridge]

hmm, you are right, I was just imagining things lol, the dynamic hud fooled me i guess

[celest nest]

damn 😄

[weary ridge]

It's better to turn off the HUD anyways 😄

[lean hull]

LMAO

Ersh straight up demanded receipts.

[celest nest]

hey i just wanted that to be true 😄

[lean hull]

[tulip canopy]

I've seen it hit 12 once

But I had some tabs open and discord

Well like two tabs

But you never know

[broken condor]

That's kind of correct, but you don't need to enable HDR processing.

Click Reset

SK fixes the game's native HDR

[broken condor]

No, scRGB is better for composing overlays and taking screenshots, but won't change the image any (at least not in D3D12).

[lean hull]

OIC

Rn when I'm swapping HDR10 for scRGB, then I can tell HDR10 has a ore colour pop in there.

[broken condor]

In D3D11, scRGB is 16-bpc. It's linear though, whereas HDR10 is gamma-compressed.
In the real-world, that works out to only 1-bit of true extra precision for scRGB. It's there, it's just not significant.

[lean hull]

scRGB veeeeeeeeeery lil tones it down.

Could be my eyes deceiving me if it's not designed to do that?

Cause at least in D3D12 like you explained, it shouldn't change anything, for better, or worse.

But seeing as how you fixed HDR10 screenshots anyway

And I'm running into black screen screenshots issue with scRGB enabled.

I might as well go back to HDR10 and just enjoy that, as SDR tonemaped are good now as well.

[broken condor]

Also note that if you change between HDR10 and scRGB and press Alt+Enter to make the change take effect, you need to wait a second or so before doing any comparisons.
The game's eye adaptation resets every time you resize the window.

There won't be any visual differences.

[lean hull]

That must be it, yeah.

Could always just take screenshots with both and compare, too.

But that's good info, thanks!

[thick salmon]

But people often claim a lot, so always good to show some proof 🙂

[weary ridge]

It never hurts to double check either haha 😅

[thick salmon]

Agree, even in this Discord some users have claimed some things, which turned out not to be true, often just by mistakenly having interpet something in a certain way

Happens to all of us

[broken condor]

Kind of fixed anyway 😛
A one size fits all HDR->SDR tonemap approach is never going to produce satisfactory results 😦
I hate burning tonemapping into the screenshot, things will be much better when the web supports HDR screenshots and we can let the user's browser tonemap the original image if they don't have an HDR display.

That's why I also don't like UltraHDR, since it's first and foremost an SDR image and that means it had to be tonemapped down to SDR first, then a gain map added to reverse the tonemap and try to reconstruct the real HDR image.