▫️Cyberpunk 2077

[whole girder]

sure thing!

'zere you go

and a version compatible with Alternative Weather Visuals. i just got permission from sosuine

[whole girder]

while we're at it 😂 https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/12913

hmm i think you're right on the 0.02 grain size, but maybe a bit less strong, 0.2 or 0.25

[gilded summit]

couldnt check in time, i did try the lut, its a classic cyberpunk look, pretty cool

this is with the weather from gits

[whole girder]

nice heheee

i might see if i can modify it a bit t make it a bit more playable lol

[gilded summit]

kinda like the over the top look, there is one more lut like this https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/11083

a few files actually

[whole girder]

oh nice!

[vale orchid]

I guess that's on me for not explaining what I'm looking for. I appreciate the feedback, but a grain texture looks like a bunch of noise. I was hoping WolvenKit shows it.

Something like this

If I know the texture, I can find it via my PIX dump, and then I can find the shader, then I can modify it. Same for Vignetting or anything else.

For example, the LUT shader is easily found by sorting used textures by depth and it's the only 32x32x32 one and there's only one shader that uses it.

[whole girder]

no you're good... i have been looking, but I haven't found any yet. I was searching for blue noise or similar textures. I will take another look today, I didn't realise you could sort by size!

the gradient vignettes were easy enough to find

how are you modifying the shaders?

and no, I totally ADD'd your question, you were quite clear 😂

[vale orchid]

a fork of https://github.com/crosire/reshade/blob/main/examples/06-shader_replace/shader_replace_addon.cpp

[whole girder]

roger

could we fork Reshade so it only does this one thing for CP? or maybe inject this into the game directly? a lot of people don't want to run reshade

[vale orchid]

Probably not worth the time to invest for just one game. Reshade is handling all the necessary hooks.

Plus, won't break after every single game update

[whole girder]

true and then you have the problem of "what if I want to run reshade AND this" (I was thinking something like BlitzFX for Witcher 1.32)

[gilded summit]

there are like 400 files like this for cyberpunk, couldnt find any info online which one does what, only a few files are labled properly, like ground noise, cloud noise etc

[gilded summit]

after some googling, i think the highest likely hood is that the "bluenoise" is the right texture, there are 64 files labeled bluenoise, one of them is 32_32_32_rgba.xbm Dunno if this helps much, but I think I narrowed it down properly, since all those files can be found in: engine/textures/noise

@vale orchid ^

[vale orchid]

There is a 32x32x32 texture that looks like this:

though i'm sure if a film grain should be in 3D 2D

[whole girder]

yep! I would expect a 3D blue noise!

lemme see if I can see what it's connected to

[whole girder]

results are coming in... I've managed to speed up ReSTIR while significantly increasing quality and reducing smearing and other noise

[south verge]

"better than vanilla with insane"? Guess I better go ahead and upgrade to 2.11 soon. Excellent work as usual @whole girder

[bleak karma]

48fps - insane
49fps - stock
v2

4K DLSS Q, RR, PT

[gilded summit]

first shot has 3d in the name, not sure what this is though, called texarray

[gilded summit]

isn't this one 3d? remember im a monkey when it comes to this, but this has 3 sides, height with and depth

the other textures have a dept of 1

[whole girder]

in fact, with the PT20 Fast version i'm getting 25% higher FPS, and i would argue it still looks better than vanilla CP 2.1x

the short answer is, RTXDI isn't working properly

[gilded summit]

this is the 3d texture, but rotated 90 degrees, doesnt look the same

[vale orchid]

I wrote a typo. Film Grain should be 2D.

But not required. Just weird to make it 3D for a 2D overlay

[gilded summit]

all the bluenoise ones are 64x64x1 exactly 64 of them and they are named bluenoise_64_rg, its like the game is trying to tell us something

i just cant put my finger on it

https://tenor.com/view/n64-nintendo64-nintendo-video-games-gaming-consoles-gif-17652719

[whole girder]

that 3D blue noise could be volumetrics

i haven't had a chance to look, work is blowing up

[vale orchid]

There are some references in the shader to volumetric fog, but that's in a bunch of shaders

[south verge]

So was the solution just disabling it for the time being? hence the fps gain?

[whole girder]

not quite.. it can't be disabled because it's doing the deferred indirect path tracing (RTX....DI) ... but CDPR has the temporal history set to 20 frames, which seemed high. looking at some nvidia documentation they set it to 4 frames (!) ... so i reduced it to 10 frames a while ago and it looked better, and then went on to work on other things

my assumption was CDPR wouldn't set it to 20 without a good reason, and i'm assuming NVidia helped them somewhat, or at least were in correspondence

but for v2 i decided to start again, because i know a lot more about the engine now, so i wanted to re-check my findings. and i started changing Editor/RTXDI/SpatialNumSamples, which is really expensive, from the default of 1 ... to ... 20

no visual change ... okay, that's weird. well, what if i set it to 0 ? is it even being used?

no visual change, and several FPS improvement

.... ooookay, so spatial sampling isn't wired up to anything. then i started to doubt their reasoning on all of it, so i went through each setting and set them to 32 or 64 or 0 to see what would happen

lo and behold most of them aren't wired up. turning off temporal samples (Editor/RTXDI/MaxHistoryLength to 0) removes the smearing noise. setting all the others high or low makes no difference, except for Editor/RTXDI/NumInitialSamples

the higher that is, the more stable the image. so i took some of the extra fps and put them into that

i think RTXDI was partially unwired when they moved from ReLAX to ReSTIRGI, but they didn't change the settings

however... oddly, going back to ReLAX (PT20), all the same things work. i was able to use all the same tricks (setting most of it to 0) and NumInitialSamples to 16 looks fantastic. better than vanilla PT21 imo

but it's lucky it works. i'm relying on them having fairly decent coding... i.e. when i set something to "0" it doesn't just CTD with a divide by zero error, their code (or NVidia's) needs to have at least a

if ( thisSetting == 0 )
{
    thisSetting.disabled()
}

(simplified)

which they do

[south verge]

@whole girder Thank you for the thorough explanation. For someone without much coding experience outside of HTML back in the day, I find this stuff is quite interesting yet quite confusing at times lol.

[whole girder]

that's all good. really, there's parts of the engine turned on that don't do anything, but cost fps 😊

[gilded summit]

bb88 posted this
"Don't delete reLIGHT.ini, regardless of what some idiot on discord or Nexus tells you. Including other mod authors - they're stupid, they don't know what they're doing. Nvidia RIS is bugged when Path Tracing is active atm, so I've disabled it to remove such visual infringement. CDPR has confirmed they're looking into it."

relight.ini:

[RayTracing/Reference]
EnableRIS = false

also some custom settings for RTXDI:

[Editor/RTXDI]
ShadowFadeFraction = 0.050
ForcedShadowLightSourceRadius = 0.01500000
SpatialSamplingRadius = 48.000000
NumEnvMapSamples = 16
NumInitialSamples = 12
SpatialNumSamples = 4
SpatialNumDisocclusionBoostSamples = 10

This is from the latest Gits 3.x

[south verge]

Will be curious to see what Sammie has to say on the matter 😉

@whole girder any of these values worth subbing into Ultra+?

[south verge]

Thinking about upgrading to 2.11 today. Has anyone used this mod remover utility before? https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/8597?tab=descriptionhttps://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/8597?tab=description

[gilded summit]

i use a different mod, that renames all modded files, works super fast and never had any misses https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/11451 Cant say i have tried mod remover though

takes about 3 sec or so

[south verge]

Appreciate the suggestion. Hopefully things go smoothly considering it wasn't a major patch this go around.

[gilded summit]

i had very little issues after all the script mods where updated

i think you should be fine if you came from 2.02

[south verge]

Coming from 2.10, wondering if I can just update and install all the major core mods. Mostly just have alot of texture mods along with Ultra+ and a LUT.

Had major issues getting everything working the last go around...

[gilded summit]

my general sense is that not much has changed in the inner workings

if you compare this to 1.7 -> 2.x

all those mods where updated really fast too like 1 day

[south verge]

Yeah I noticed that. Gave me hope 😄

[whole girder]

not really no. i have a separate file with just Bababooey's reflection blend settings, but I don't think they do anything with path tracing (I haven't had time to test)

it turns out RTXDI spacial samples are used... in only one place... the Heavy Hearts 🤪

so for that to not have a weird moire pattern, every other location has to lose several fps lol

I think I know how to move forward with the CET version of ultra+ now... maybe I can turn on SpacialNumSamples just for that area

[whole girder]

I just did the core mods, then sorted my downloads by update and did the ones that have updated since 2.11 .. works fine

2.11 wasn't a big change

[south verge]

Easy trade off there lol

[south verge]

My manual mod install is getting out of hand XD. Might have to resort to a mod manager soon

May just roll the dice

[gilded summit]

i get that, 300+ lose files + scripts + cet mods pff

[whole girder]

yes... i haven't seen it for myself yet. it could also be an AMD issue (no RR)

[whole girder]

https://tenor.com/bCVfs.gif

[south verge]

Done. Time for some Ultra 2.0 🎉

[whole girder]

yessss

if only i programmed 😂

[south verge]

If only indeed lol

This update is unbelievably smooth! I can actually play the game completely with DLAA now. Unbelievable.

[gilded summit]

i get a very consistent 10 fps with dlaa in the black market in dogtown on 4k though, but it does look good

o i just noticed its only running 300 watts instead of ~360 or so

[gilded summit]

RIS samples raster data, it's disabled with the reLIGHT.ini because of this

its bugged so might as well, gain some performance while RT/PT

[formal lodge]

do we still suggest 2.0 for best quality, then?

[south verge]

2.0 is better quality hands down but in lower lighting conditions you have to be ok with a little noise. Motion is much cleaner in with 2.1 PT

[formal lodge]

thanks!

re: cyberpunk frame generation. ive heard FSR3 is better because SCRGB is still usable

i do have a 4000 series card

id imagine because its not a native port its performance is likely not to be as good but

[whole girder]

i'm trying to fix the low-light noise issue now

(for PT20)

[south verge]

SSCRGB works with FSR3? That's actually exciting to hear

[whole girder]

this is my latest wip version. it's also worth trying HistoryFixFrameNum = 4 (for both settings)

[formal lodge]

thats what i remember reading anyways i don't know if that's accurate

oh neat! your work on that mod is incredible

[whole girder]

res resamples raster ?? i thought "resampled importance sampling" meant it was resampling the path traced samples

why would it sample raster?

[south verge]

Testing historyfix = 4 for both

No luck.

[whole girder]

i don't think it matters ... the default setting of 20 causes smearing, 10 is "better" ... 4 is "better again" and 0 is best from what i've been able to work out 😜

i think it's the usual case of they tuned it "good enough for release" and shipped

[whole girder]

really? how do i get it?

[south verge]

Have they released FSR3 yet for CP? or is it still the hacky version?

[whole girder]

also, make sure you have my cet fix installed for the latest ultra+. some mods are enableing the NRD denoiser, which should only be enabled if you're not using RR

i need two solid days to finish the full cet version of ultra+ which will make things a lot more predictable. other mods are fiddling with settings, and ultra+ is basically a full hack at the moment, it requires very specific settings to work correctly (which is why i think we're getting variability amongs users)

[whole girder]

noooo

it's hacky. it doesn't do screen edges correctly. and Luke's FSR3 isn't working well for me on CP

(but it does do screen edges for me)

[south verge]

Yeah I'll just wait to test the proper release if I ever want to switch to SCRGB later. HDR PQ is just fine in the meantime.

[south verge]

As in some mods, are you referring to GITS? lol

I usually stick with DLAA in most scenarios so which setting should I enable for the time being?

[gilded summit]

idk i just qouted bb88, devs did acknowledge the error and are looking into it

#1206471811265724476 message

[whole girder]

what's scRGB?

[south verge]

scRGB (Standard Colorimetric RGB):
Color Depth: scRGB uses 16-bit color depth, which means it can represent a wide range of colors with greater precision.
Compression: It compresses the output after using the full 16-bit color depth, resulting in accurate color representation.
Purpose: scRGB is technically more accurate and is suitable for applications where precise color fidelity matters, such as professional photo editing or scientific visualization.
Visible Artifacts: It suffers from less visible banding artifacts due to its higher bit depth12.

VS

HDR PQ (Perceptual Quantizer):
Color Depth: HDR PQ operates at 10-bit color depth, which is slightly lower than scRGB.
Process: It performs the entire HDR process at 10 bits, including the PQ EOTF (Electro-Optical Transfer Function).
Purpose: HDR PQ is often used for cinematic settings, providing a pleasing visual experience. It’s commonly seen in movies and TV shows.
Visible Artifacts: While it sacrifices some accuracy, it aims for a more visually appealing look by using enhancements12.

Accuracy vs. vibrant colors according to Copilot

[whole girder]

oh, yes i know what it is (thank you), but is there a shader replacement for CP for it? ... sorry, badly phrased question 🙄

[south verge]

You can choose scRGB or HDR PQ for HDR natively

[whole girder]

oh. okay. well, i don't have HDR

so should i worry about the new CP shader?

i really don't understand what Bababooey is saying about raster for RIS ... maybe he's over-simplifying to explain it? ... at the simplest level, yes the materials fed to the engine are raster textures initially, but they're not treated that way by ReSTIR or RTXDI ...

the simplest way i can explain it is

1. MIS takes (path-traced) samples of the scene. MIS is "multiple importance sampling"
2. this information builds a PDF (probability density function) which tells RIS (resampled importance sampling) how best to sample the scene
3. RIS now takes PT samples "more for some bits", "less for other bits" according to the proability density suggested by MIS

even this is overly simplistic, but it should hopefully give the idea of what's happening

as far as i know, raster is never used. if it is, it's probably a hack from CDPR to get "something" working (shadows? is that what Bababooey is talking about?) ... i do know that "some" stuff is NOT in the PT frustum ... some things are i guess... path tracing "multilayer" ? (even though that's a confusion of terms, but like i say - hacks).

... hair, for example, isn't part of the PT frustum, because it's using environment probes. some shadows are also not part of PT, because they disappear with distance (even though they're still part of the PT scene). here i expect Bababooey knows more than i do

for the record, i think CP is using generalised RIS. there is a newer method called conditional RIS, which fixes more problems (https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3610548.3618245, Dec '23). this field is going to progress very rapidly now

for "hair" that uses environment probes as i mention ... "what" it's probing exactly, i don't know ... is it sampling the local and global lighting from the PT scene? is rendering a basic raster scene? ... same question with shadows... again, this is - i suspect - what he's talking about. it would be really annoying if CDPR is rendering a raster scene AND a PT scene, because the raster scene is completely unnecessary (other than for "hacky hacks") 🤔

[vale orchid]

I got sliders working now in realtime. I think I'll try for Film Grain next https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1204850050530807838

[gilded summit]

honestly idk, but it looks like rasterised lighting probes or something. We need like a super squad of modders, Cyanide, Manuel Enhancer, Sousine, Sammi and they need to mind meld somehow, so they can fix CDPR's game 😄

https://tenor.com/view/doyobug-mind-gif-21088087

[whole girder]

CyanideX, Bababooey, sosuine and I already talk (as much as sosuine talks, which isn't much 😂). idk TheManualEnhancer

[whole girder]

is there any point running this without HDR?

[vale orchid]

It only replaces the scRGB HDR shader. I didn't embed the SDR or PQ shader.

[whole girder]

okay 😊
(😭)

[whole girder]

and here we go ... RIS on vs off

innnteresting. i need to talk to Baba when he's recovered

is RIS just sampling raster shadows? how are shadows not part of PT. i don't get what CDPR have done here, i think he's worked it out though

ohhhh, the main difference is in corners

maybe RIS isn't sampling raster. maybe it's re-sampling NRD, instead of the new pipeline

[whole girder]

*off vs on

[bleak karma]

RTX 4000 users in shambles

[vale orchid]

Oh, the new build has both now (PQ/scRGB)

[bleak karma]

RTX 4000 users rejoice

[vale orchid]

At this point it's just about adding more sliders.

Already thinking about the next game to mod

[teal imp]

You're taking requests? Because I have one

[vale orchid]

Sure. If I don't have to pay for it. 😅

I do have Xbox pass for the moment.

[teal imp]

Resident Evil 4 Remake

[vale orchid]

What's wrong with it? (Generally)

[teal imp]

Bad HDR LUTs that turn shadows into a bright blue clipped mess, makes some parts of the DLC borderline unplayable due to how dark it is when forcing G2.2 with reshade (PC is sRGB, consoles use G2.2). You can don't force G2.2, but then shadows look like even brighter blue washed out but less clipped mess. There is a mod that disables LUT's wholesale, but that a) changes the look of the game, b) makes well lit parts of the game washed out c) breaks visuals in some cutscenes

[vale orchid]

LUTs and HDR are just not easy. I'm not sure of a good way to use both

[teal imp]

Maybe it's not LUT but some kind of color tint done in post?

Here's the mod I'm referring to

https://www.nexusmods.com/residentevil42023/mods/4?tab=files

[devout mirage]

@sturdy goblet

[teal imp]

It's sadly not a silver bullet as I've mentioned earlier

I mean, I rather use it than not, but ideally I would like to have color correction without ruining the image in HDR, it was like that in 7, 2R and 3R, dunno what they did with the engine for the VIll-age to make it behave like that

The funny part is that Capcom claims they have been grading their games in HDR for a while now, umm, did no one noticed that it looks, like, very wrong?

ok, rant over, back to cyberjank

[whole girder]

@true saffron 😏

[true saffron]

What am I looking at? 😅

Floating trees?

Oh, is that Wind Begone?

[whole girder]

no it's not your mods

they weren't like this in 1.63 😂

[true saffron]

https://tenor.com/mr12r57ePgT.gif

[compact flame]

#🔧hdr-troubleshooting message

[gilded summit]

try removing ZZZDrawDistancePart_3 i had some of these too at one point, the spot i saw this in doesn't have this anymore, so maybe check if there are updates on this or other lod affecting mods you had installed

[vale orchid]

is film grain now broken in latest version?

[teal imp]

It works the same as it always did, I think

What's wrong with it?

Aside from not being accurate

[vale orchid]

doesn't exist at all

modding wolvenkit to make it larger now #cyberpunk2077-dev

was the resolution. doesn't work at 1600x900

[whole girder]

hmm okay ty, I don't think I'm using draw distance 🤔

[whole girder]

oh yeah, @ 900 was set to 0.0 film grain??? wtf

I saw that and was like, okayyy maybe there's some reason idk about 🤪

[vale orchid]

film grain doesn't appear until 960 vertical resolution

then scales linearly until 2160

[whole girder]

yes it's set to 0 strength for 900px res

(defaults) ... no idea why

[true saffron]

Because film grain will mess with detail at lower res. It's gross. 😛

[whole girder]

it's always gross 😂

[true saffron]

Also just found out luminance bias affects saturation:

So there yah go, @vale orchid. 😉

[whole girder]

mm, no draw distance. only these. i think it's a vanilla bug? but idk

[gilded summit]

honestly i have no idea anymore,. it might be the lod ini too, or it might even be this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/12700

@whole girder ^

[whole girder]

mm I can't use that 😂

idk. I just watch the pretty pictures 🤪😂

[gilded summit]

🙂

[vale orchid]

#1204850050530807838 probably good enough to use now. not sure what else to add. SDR?

[olive ether]

The map menu is affected by the tonemapper

only other changes i can think of:
srgb 2.2 gamma mismatch on UI elements
adding some kind of value to control highlight desaturation
adding more sliders to DICE and ACES if possible

[vale orchid]

DICE and ACES don't really have parameters for it, but OpenDRT does have a desaturation slider. i'll look into the map and menu gamma mismatch

[vale orchid]

yeah, dechroma at 20% is better

[olive ether]

Does ACES desaturate lower values?

Shadows are more green in OpenDRT

Well I’m comparing by moving the ACES shadow slider up to match OpenDRT’s black level but that also doesn’t seem to work well cause it just makes the shadows super gray

[vale orchid]

That's an internal value in OpenDRT that forces a hue shift in an attempt to produce an image similar to what colorists were used to seeing with ACES. But at the same time it targets effects colorists didn't like. So it makes it hard to find a singular solution because we don't know if CDPR leaned into ACES 1.0 "side effects".

Eventually I'll sit down and grade the hue shifts to look similar to what CDPR did to the ACES engine.

Though a perfect color match probably won't happen. There really is no proper HDR color grade here. It's probable a colorist would have made some shifts to shadows because the range of HDR is much larger than SDR.

I don't think this is graded at all for HDR. 300/550 is barely HDR to some. Usually I've seen people grade to 4000 or 10000. In less circumstances, 1000 or 2000.

That makes you the colorist here, and there are no real rules as to what an HDR representation of the artistic vision looks like.

[vale orchid]

The tone mapper runs in vanilla game. Except the map apparently has negative colors that OpenDRT treats as real (because negative colors means BT2020 colors in scRGB). That's what those white areas are. They're probably math errors, so I'll just convert negative colors to 0 (black).

[south verge]

What does dechroma do btw? (in this specific use case) Didn't have much luck with a straight answer from what I found on google

[vale orchid]

controls the highlight desaturation effect built into OpenDRT.

[vale orchid]

good example of me tuning it in Starfield: #sf-luma-development message

[south verge]

Thnx for this. Basically removes color from highlights?

[vale orchid]

Yeah, it's important for flames, suns, and neon lights to look right.

[south verge]

I see. Must have missed it while following Luma dev

Does anyone have ACES settings recommendation for the new build? Should I be pushing paperwhite to 500+?

[olive ether]

i left paperwhite at 203 and upped exposure to 2.0

but honestly i dont like the look of aces anyway

i have custom settings with opendrt

[olive ether]

I think you might need to up exposure to 4.0

I think it needs to be double the vanilla

So vanilla exposure 2.0 was a match for SDR from what I recall

Ya ACES at 4 matches vanilla 2

[gilded summit]

i was testing the builds yesterday too, and at nights exposure of around x2 seemed right, on daytime the slider felt best just around x4. Though i did switch builds, and I am running a custom LUT

open drt on 10x actually

mind you this looks horrid (sdr pic)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fsPSXWsM40YwzYWjBh2TOe1Bea1tmCF6/view

well these are pretty different approaches anyways, with whitepoint at 80 opendrt lol just ignore

[south verge]

4500nits ohh my

[gilded summit]

thats just inacurate, dunno why, likely because of nova lut

i get these weird issues too, like the sun is ~1000 nits, and the reflection of the sun is 1600

I do run HGIG so my screen just hard clips it

[south verge]

Spent some time matching PreemLUT. Vanilla/OpenDRT/ACES

Can't seem to get reshade capture to grab the overlay though

For those interested in settings

FYI: my display 10% nits maxes at 457nits and both at D60 for the match

Oh and OpenDRT saturation was set at 55 as well

[gilded summit]

alt + screenshot, might mess up hdr/sdr conversion

or just use steam screenshot, that captures HDR in the latest beta build

[south verge]

Will try the first one. I'm on GOG but perhaps I can add the executable and launch through steam.

[gilded summit]

i know for a fact that gamebar doesnt like it, that is the sdr pic i last uploaded

[vale orchid]

FYI, in-game tonemapper midpoint only works on Vanilla Tone Mapper. Should have no effect on the others

[south verge]

NovaLUT + Ultra+ + RenoDX is something to behold folks. Straight from game

[gilded summit]

looks swag

[formal lodge]

What's REnoDX?

looks v nice

[gilded summit]

Custom HDR shader with sliders #1204850050530807838 message

#1204850050530807838 message

need both files installed open reshade with home key, and you can make a setup with renodx, set to 440 nits, so use ingame sliders to set peak to your monitors max peak/clipping point

[formal lodge]

ooooh

[neat sky]

When using RenoDX in CP2077, is there a specific step-by-step guide how to set it up once everything it is installed and the game is lauched and the reshade menu with the renodx settings is in focus?

I'm asking because in the "tonemapper section", when using "vanilla" the hdr peaks seem fine, but when switching to any other, there seem to be no highlights... Do I need to set something in game? (I've set midpoint at 1, peak at 800 and paper white at 1, is that ok?)

[olive ether]

Vanilla hdr was mastered for a low peak brightness

Raising the peak just stretches everything out instead of revealing more detail

In game midpoint setting is ignored

Just use reshade to change the hdr settings

With renodx raising the peak brightness works as it should

[whole girder]

this is crazy good

[whole girder]

RT only (left) ... RT+PT (right)

[whole girder]

local light importance sampling adjusts local lights to be an appropriate strength in the scene
off (left) ... on (right)

off (left) ... on (right)

in this scene, where is the ground light coming from? there's a small billboard behind me but that's not it. it's overly bright local lights..

(the tree light) .. well, i think it looks over-bright anyway

idk now... to me the darker scene is "what night actually looks like irl" ... but curious what others think?

a good example of RIS on (left) vs off (right) with relight

[teal imp]

RIS looks like its bleeding light a lot
But relight looks a touch to dark maybe?
Having comparison with full PT would be good, since it's the closest to ground truth

[whole girder]

you mean comparison to no relight?

[teal imp]

This is full PT or RT+PT?

I assumed the latter

But anyway I think RIS off looks better

[whole girder]

full PT 😊

yes same

idk another way to look at it is almost like some of the bounce lighting is just gone

[teal imp]

Good spot to test light bounce is a container with the guy sitting inside in south dogtown, right after big metal wall/checkpoint

With 2.0 PT it turns pitch black, but with 2.1 you can actually see inside

RIS off might look better in a well lit environment but worse in a dim one

Fuck I'm gonna be googling photos of warehouses now instead of working am I

https://tenor.com/view/larry-david-therapist-curb-your-enthusiasm-yikes-gif-13827584

RIS might be more correct after all?

Neither is what I would call completely accurate, really

[whole girder]

I don't know... I think I want to go back and turn off local light importance sampling, which can make some local lights darker (or brighter)

technically RIS is more accurate. ReSTIR (reservoir spatio-temporal Importance resampling) is built on ris. but the assumption is CDPR are sampling the first level of importance sampling (MIS, multiple importance sampling)

none of it is supposed to be sampling raster. it's a direct rendering of the scene. BUT something's going on with particles, foliage (I think), hair, and apparently according to BB's work "some other things" seem to be added into MIS or RIS or somewhere in the PT pipeline. I haven't had a chance to talk with him about it

[teal imp]

https://tenor.com/view/good-burger-some-of-these-gif-12933391

Seriously though, thanks for the explanation

[gilded summit]

SSR is raster, they might use info from that for RIS? Im just guessing here, but it would make some sense in a way.

[whole girder]

oh yes there's SSR data in there too

I'm fascinated to see their pipeline. it's also not like we've seen full twiggy foliage in NVidias PT demos, they've all been of metal and machinery and things

and then openAI comes along with realistic neural network generated scenes...

[teal imp]

It's not uncommon to use SSR to supplement RT for things that are not in BVH
I'm playing Doom Eternal right now, and it does the same

[gilded summit]

BVH being?

I know cyperpunk does it for some 2d luminous textures

[teal imp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_volume_hierarchy

[whole girder]

what blows my mind is getting it all to line up 😂

and yes, hogwarts does rough reflections completely in raytracing, and it's expensive

i think that's an unreal thing

[south verge]

About as close as I can get with NovaLUT (Van -> OpenDRT). Lemme know if anyone needs sliders, will have to be text form.

[true saffron]

What's the point of matching vanilla instead of using vanilla? 😅

[south verge]

As a reference starting point, of course. Then you can tailor it to however you'd like.

[mystic shadow]

They look identical in games though. At least in terms of vibrancy

[whole girder]

that's probably pretty user friendly

[whole girder]

so what happens if you do this mission and change your face

awww it doesn't recognise it

[south verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc3OXiFjsSg

[whole girder]

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/13236

[whole girder]

he doesn't have much of a ... potato 🤔

not that i looked 😂

[south verge]

Now you aren't assuming that gonks gender now are you @whole girder?

[whole girder]

coming back to this ... doesn't look like RT+PT is working at all in that third image

[teal imp]

Gonna make a new comparison later

[teal imp]

Raster/RT/RT+PT/PT

RT+PT with Ultra+ 2.5, otherwise vanilla

[whole girder]

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/49912/patch-2-12

[sturdy goblet]

@whole girder how did you get so many people to join the discord 😄 ?

[whole girder]

oh f

I added a link to my mod page (recommended mods)

but I meant to ask you guys!!

I'm so sorry, is this a good thing or a bad thing 😂

(DM if needed)

[sturdy goblet]

mmm, theoretically this is an HDR focused server.
You are free to talk about your mod here (especially in threads/formus), but maybe it's better to invite people to either your own discord or a CP2077 focused discord?

not like it's a big problem

[whole girder]

they're only coming for RenoDX, not for ultra+

[sturdy goblet]

ah ok.

[whole girder]

I just have a list of mods I recommend on my mod, and one of them is RenoDX

I put the link on there when I was doing a bunch of edits, then though, oh crap I should ask ShortFuse about that

it would seem I forgot!

[gilded summit]

i wasn't sure either, i did try to help a person out, so i removed my comment directing to this discord too

[vale orchid]

So far somebody asked me about HDR LUTs and I think when you're presented with a Discord called HDR Den you know what kinda group you're getting into.

[signal flicker]

Don't worry too much, Shortfuse is right here, so nothing to worry about

[whole girder]

okay, likely the mod will be closed when everyone upgrades to 2.12 anyway

[south verge]

https://tenor.com/view/的9-gif-27299608

[whole girder]

unless I can find the shaders and ShortFuse wants to put it into RenoDX 😊

[formal lodge]

dropping cyberpunk ultra completely or, what do you mean. i know im a few dawys late but

days. guh

[whole girder]

if U+ doesn't / can't do something substantial to improve the game like with previous versions then yes i won't continue it

at the moment i think there's a good chance i can reverse the path tracing shaders... i just won't have any time due to work for the next several days at least

i had an hour to play on the weekend but CP was crashing while PIX was doing shader dumps for some reason

that reminds me i'll reinstall CP

[formal lodge]

oooh

i look forward to whatever work it is that you do. you've always done incredible work and im sure people appreciate it. that doesn't sound like a particularly easy problem though

[whole girder]

ty!

meh easy schmeasy 😂

[brittle sphinx]

so uh since there is no pin here, I need renodx(shortfuse mod) to have proper hdr on this game ?

[teal imp]

Yes

[brittle sphinx]

is it possible to pin the lastest release ?

[teal imp]

#1204850050530807838 message

#1204850050530807838 message

New releases will be in https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1216700679612268564 so you can join the thread or set notifications for it

[brittle sphinx]

appreciated

[whole girder]

i wonder if PT in 2.12 is doing bounces from off-screen light sources

[teal imp]

Portal RTX comes with the new RR dll (3.7) but sadly it doesn't produce any improvements in CP2077

[south verge]

Was just about to test 😪

[whole girder]

yes the problem is CP is the debasing, not the denoising

[whole girder]

https://youtu.be/KG_CBUijtUA

@vale orchid have you seen any of the RT shaders in the pix capture? I'm not seeing them

[vale orchid]

I can check my new devkit logging

[gilded summit]

as long as it hits the camera in less than 2 bounces i guess

*2 or less

[teal imp]

Restir has infinite bounces I think

[whole girder]

kind of. but in practical terms they're limited by importance sampling and total number of rays 🤔

[whole girder]

CyanideX thinks it might be a contrast issue

[whole girder]

ty!

[whole girder]

i don't think the DLSSG 3.7 from Portal is compatible with Cyberpunk. it's using different spatial sampling

also idk why, no one else seems to have a problem, but the latest modded build of Reshade causes a complete nvidia driver crash and failed reset

[whole girder]

actually what the... now i'm having spatial sampling problems with dlssg 3.5

[south verge]

What do spatial sampling problems look like? I upgraded and haven't come across any major issues yet

[whole girder]

the dots on the floor

and shadows smearing

i had 2.11 running perfectly with Editor/RTXDI/SpatialNumSamples = 0 and now it won't run without it??

[south verge]

Hmm, I'll keep an eye out. So you reverted back to 2.11 I see lol

[whole girder]

yes

but... specifically to fix this issue

i fixed this a month ago

maybe it's the 551 drivers?

[south verge]

No issues yet with the current drivers outside of the event viewer ID 0 crashes... Can't seem to figure out what's causing them.

[whole girder]

(1) vanilla RTXDI sampling ... notice boiling noise at bottom of door
(2) ultra+ performance RTXDI sampling ... normally this is perfect, but now there's black spots on the floor
(3) ultra+ balanced sampling... this IS perfect, but at the cost of 15% fps

[south verge]

Out of curiousity. Does it happen with older version of control+/ultra+?

v2.2 was the sweet spot for me

v0.3 for control

[whole girder]

yes i'm just bifurcating

but as usual i can't see any changes that would do this

and i am getting the same ghosting as CP 2.12 now .... in CP 2.11

i've even changed the 2.12 install path so windows/CP can't access any of the files in there

i am absolutely stumped

the problem with using the spatial sampling is they don't work properly... they cause the smearing problem

[south verge]

Shader cache clear? idk

[whole girder]

oh good call

trying

seriously, this engine bakes my noodle

give me UE any day

this is hack upon hack

[south verge]

Bizarre. Maybe a full reinstall of CP as last resort?

[whole girder]

this is a full reinstalll

it's a fresh download from steam depot, modded from scratch

hence my confusion. it must be the compiled shaders

[south verge]

🤞

[whole girder]

the biggest difference i can see in 2.2 vs 2.5 is the frame timing. 3.0ms (v2.2) vs 5.0ms (v2.5) for asset streaming

[south verge]

But what I don't understand... I importing the values from 2.5 to 2.2 and theres no difference in performance. But when I upgraded to 2.5 and the new version of control I lost over 12% performance

With the old version of control theres no performance loss

Testing every value one by one and still couldn't figure out the difference

[whole girder]

i think this is because the version of Control uses more RTXDI samples in v2.5

it goes from 16 to 24 initial frame samples

[south verge]

I changed those back to 2.2 values with 2.5 and same performance loss. idk lol

Perfectly happy with 2.2

[whole girder]

no change after deleting shader caches

i am truly stumped

[south verge]

https://tenor.com/view/mock-why-exasperated-oh-lord-simpsons-gif-6712454037734860562

[whole girder]

hahaha

okay, all i can think to do is roll back to the previous nvidia driver

if it's a driver issue that would be brilliant

[whole girder]

this is bonkers

[whole girder]

I think I've fixed it

[signal flicker]

How? What was the culprit?

[whole girder]

I'm still not sure... the short version... re-enabling spatial sampling and changing some other settings, it works again

what's so confusing is that now a completely clean 2.11 is behaving like 2.12 and neither of them work without spatial samples any more

I've downgraded drivers, cleared shader caches, it's like 2.11 never worked with the mod. yet it did

I don't remember a time I wasn't able to bifurcate. I'm literally stumped

[south verge]

Have any idea what could be causing this phenomenon? I was testing a different version of AgX this morning and upon launch my entire screen was completely blurry. I've cleared shaders, disabled reno, went back to the vanilla lut, and even tried the game in sdr. Other games load just fine.

How bizarre... loading an older save seems to have fixed the issue.

[craggy vessel]

@whole girder Yep , better here

They updated Intel APO few days ago

Cyberpunk with APO could be awesome

And i think they are gona do it, because in 2.12 they works side by side with Intel to integrate the P Cores well

[craggy vessel]

Ooo u have the same visión like me With Out glasses in rl

Very inmmersive

Hahhahahha

[whole girder]

ooh, nice! this isn't for 12th gen though hey

brb, clothing sale 😂

[craggy vessel]

For now , im pretty sure they are gonna added

[whole girder]

oh nice!

[craggy vessel]

I have one my "old" cpu

[whole girder]

do you have a profile or mod page i can link to to add you to the contributors list for testing hair and things?

[whole girder]

cpu porn

[craggy vessel]

My nexus profile u mean?

[formal lodge]

it is now yes. the update hit the microsoft store. just dep[ends on the generic DTT trivers to hit webistes now

which are also out

just not officially. sketchy websites

that said im not sure how much APO can or will help in the case of cyberpunk because - yes. raytracing is CPU intensive. but idk how much of an uplift you'll see there

[whole girder]

hmm 🤔

ugh asus will never update my bios

[formal lodge]

fortunately i dont think you have to update your BIOS just the generic intel DTT drivers whenever they go up

i still get nervous about updating BIOS even though its more safe these days

[whole girder]

these seem to be the latest DTT drivers https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/downloads-for-motherboards/drivers-intel-dtt-gna-5xx-6xx-7xx/td-p/905856

[whole girder]

i just realised all my screenshots are on the lowest quality versions of my mods 🤔

[whole girder]

dammit

get. in. the. carrr

[craggy vessel]

Check if u have Dynamic Tuning enabled on BIOE

BIOS *

Or i can give u my drivers haha

[craggy vessel]

Do it in 5K

[whole girder]

okay

I don't think it's an option in my bios

but I'll look

I could do DLSDR if I use my external monitor

[craggy vessel]

What brand is

[whole girder]

it's an Asus Zenbook Pro

(laptop)

[craggy vessel]

[whole girder]

another new version ... now has "Real Turbo" mode which disables RTXDI spatial sampling while player is outdoors for some free FPS (it's not used outdoors in 99% of locations)
https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/10490

also now enables particle FX integration with path tracing if it's raining but player is indoors (if "Particle Fix" is enabled)

nexus has blocked it because of my DLSSD auto-upgrade script. here 'tis

i've emailed them

[teal imp]

@whole girder what may be the reason that U+ Control crashes the game when trying to load the save?

It also supposed to reset every time I boot the game?

[whole girder]

cyberpunk doesn't have error handling around a lot of its functions

is the real answer... i try and identify where CP is crashing and work around it... i obviously haven't found them all yet

it's not expecting some other piece of software to be manipulating the engine 😂

one way to work around the issue is to rename cyberpunk's UserSettings.json ... it should load fine then

[craggy vessel]

I fixed the script issue for @whole girder :3 , so dont worry guys soon available

[craggy vessel]

I found the cause, and the fix haha

When u change a option for example Denoiser or RR in the Menu of CET, the game explodes if u want to load a save

U need to set it everything to default to load a new save ok

[mystic shadow]

How much DLSS sharpness do you guys use?

I'm at 1440p quality dlss if that helps

@whole girderfyi

it's the dlss script they're blocking?

[teal imp]

none

[mystic shadow]

@teal impare you using RT or PT in cyberpunk. Tryna see how many people are using each combo

[teal imp]

PT looks too good to pass

especially with Ultra+

[mystic shadow]

yea i'm gonna set that up now

just tryna figure out why i cant see the SK OSD with reshade

i'm using shortfuse's fork

are you using the renodx mod

[teal imp]

SK hates local reshade installations since 6.0

[mystic shadow]

ah

i'll load it through SK then as aplugin

[craggy vessel]

Yep, but fixed now

But sammiLucia is not here now

Sleeping or doing things hahaa

[craggy vessel]

0.45 here 2K Auto DLSS

[mystic shadow]

2k as in 1440p?

[craggy vessel]

yes

in screenshots tab u have more screens

[formal lodge]

i need to get the proper reno mod to work for cyberpunk still

[mystic shadow]

Do you guys use the 2.12 eith ultra plus or 2.11

[whole girder]

i'm heerreee

i was trying to fix my pre-coffee code 😂

[whole girder]

me too... forked reshade 6.0.1 is crashing for me rn

[whole girder]

U+ is working perfectly with 2.12 now 😊

i'm running 2.12

i just noticed there is a sector loading hitch

[mystic shadow]

I'm just tryna get my game set up with renodx and then i'm going to put ultra+ on top of it

[whole girder]

https://tenor.com/bk92x.gif

[mystic shadow]

so i choose one ini file from the 2.11/2.11 folders, then one file from the 2.0/2.1 folders?

and which do you prefer. CP2.0 or CP2.1?

[formal lodge]

yeah its not been working for me at all either

[gilded summit]

@whole girder @formal lodge uninstall it, remove all shaders (especially liliums old hdr shaders) and install those again, there where some issues in older builds, when running in "peformance mode".

[whole girder]

oh okay, so it's not just me

[whole girder]

otay 😊

[mystic shadow]

What does the gits 3.x mod do in comparison to ultra+. I noticed on the ultra plus page it mentions to load it before gits 3.x for performance reasons. Do they do similar things?

[gilded summit]

Gits changes sectors to get rid of false Raster lighting that was left in the game, it changes some illumination on objects too, like the fast travel spots etc. And has some ini tweaks for clouds, hair, and "spreading" distance of light or range. in the initweak called "rtxdiy" is a line called [RayTracing]
EnableImportanceSampling = false, that Ultraplus mentiones is needed for GITS to function as intended. There might be some overlapping ini tweaks, but thats where load order comes in. Ultra+ gets priority with a regular instal (drop files in folder) because the naming is different. You likely won't notice any major glitches and errors when using Ultra+ and GITS simaltaniously, but there are some minor conflicting settings/toggles (ultra plus has a cyber engine tweak option).

Gits kinda brute forces visual spectacle (not too much brute force like increase bounces and ray count) but still. Ultra plus does to much to mention :D, and has performance options that do hurt fidelity if you think this is worth the tradeoff

[whole girder]

• Attempt to (re)fix sector load hitch. I had assumed Intel/CDPR would have fixed it but they haven't. It appears the engine isn't unloading the previous sector fast enough to stream in a new sector, so I've increased the unload
• Corrected "Show player avatar" to "Hide player avatar"
• Stopped trying to load default values, which is probably what was causing crashes on load (defaults loading, then settings loading confusing the engine if they're different). There's actually no reason to have default values, so they're gone!
• Removed Skin & Hair since the options do nothing
• Added the option to disable SHARC, which is less accurate for path tracing, but stops the light levels adjusting constantly
  huuuge thank you to @craggy vessel for working on these changes too

[whole girder]

EnableImportanceSampling = false doesn't do anything ... at least, i haven't found any areas where it does do anything

i don't agree with some of BabaBooey's ini tweaks, but he's been offline since he posted GITS, so we haven't had a chance to discuss them

[gilded summit]

i just commented on this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/13644?tab=posts that people who use ultra + can make it compatible if they edit the common fixes, and some1 already mentioned the ini files. They kinda conflict making suosines mod not work properly

[gilded summit]

it does have an effect at least on the fast travel points. EDIT: Forgot to add that this was with your ultra+ from a few weeks ago

[south verge]

After a quick test, the disable SHARC toggle doesn't seem to be working. Stays checked when selected.

[indigo summit]

On nvidias page for RTXGI

Seems neat

For nvidia NRC would be neat doubt it’s supported in cyberpunk though

[indigo summit]

So, in terms of algorithms that Nvidia has implemented for Path Tracing, we have Generalised Importance Sampling, Neural Radiance Cache and SHARC.

What’s to come that Nvidia has already researched/prototyped is ReSTIR PT, and the following papers that expand on it and fix it up. Unified denoising for Volumetrics, also anything they reveal around GDC time

The big one is the restir upgrades, the research there dramatically improves the fidelity of restir.

Conditional Resampled Importance Sampling

[indigo summit]

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/SHARC/blob/main/docs/Integration.md

Voxel data buffer - stores accumulated radiance and sample count, use 128-bits per entry, RAW buffer. Two instances are used to store current and previous frame data
Logarithm base controls levels of detail distribution and voxel size ratio change between neighboring levels, it doesn’t make voxel sizes bigger or smaller on average. To control voxel size use sceneScale parameter instead.

[whole girder]

I think I might have broken all the toggles 🤔

[whole girder]

oh wow great find!

[whole girder]

yes I've seen those. I'm not sure they'll come to CP 🤔

[whole girder]

damn I looked and looked for this when it came out. all I could find was some paper written in 1986 😂

sharc is "okay", but it lags behind the frame by quite a bit (50 to 1000ms ish depending on SceneScale) ... so it's a bit like shadows that don't pop in but fade in. it IS noticable, the lighting of the whole scene changes after and as you move

[indigo summit]

best way to put it is, the key to reducing ghosting is to have more detail for the denosier to work with, and algorithms such as SHARC do exactly that. they improve how much of an image the tracer can produce before terminating, which in this instance has a symptom of more light because more paths are traced to a longer extent, producing closer to what could ever be considered a reference image

in this sense, once your at the denoiser stage its an absolute struggle of trying to make sense of what the tracer put out, but if there's more sense to the image you'll have a better time of it

but yeah unfortunately SHARC is the raster twin to NRC in terms of fidelity, it uses the core concept of NRC but without the context afforded to NRC by the neural network
but in terms of results, it'll be something similar to this just less crazy

I'm experimenting atm dropping samples back to vanilla, maintaining 2 spatial samples for DI/GI and the 32 boost, but with SHARC at downscale 1

FPS is def less stable

it kinda dramatically drops at points, mainly when the image seems to invalidate

also is there a reason to not sample the env map at all? seems like you'd be missing some info

[whole girder]

set Editor/RDXTI/MaxHistoryLevel to 0 and the fps will stabilize

I don't know why but it's spiking massively when you turn the frustum

[whole girder]

I know that's my thinking too, but changing between 64 samples and 0 (live in game) makes no difference

idk if that CVar isn't wired up, or... ?

[whole girder]

interestingly in a lot of scenes SHARC makes the scene darker in CP 🤔

at SceneScale 50 or lower it does anyway. at 100 it starts to get brighter

[indigo summit]

hmmm I mean its possible having too little data can do the opposite as well, from what I think was seen in RenoDX the exposure algo is very temperamental

that to me is a miracle if it can be denoised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_Xf24FpBU
50 seconds into this video, assuming Restir PT is GRIS then the artifacts exist in CP 2077 as well

there was another paper as well about issues with restir they had a potential algo for

https://research.nvidia.com/labs/rtr/publication/sawhney2022decorrelating/

"reservoirs holding more than one sample suffer from impoverishment in the form of duplicate samples"

which implies diminishing returns

so that paper has an idea of what my math-poor brain interprets as doing some fancy shit to avoid instances of locked-in error

so ReSTIR is Initial candidates -> Temporal Reuse -> Spatial Reuse

In Figure 9a we show ReSTIR PT’s (GRIS) integration error with temporal
reuse and increasing frame counts. Colors correspond to different
𝑀-cap values; the scene is static to avoid errors from animation.
Pixels compute a new independent sample on each iteration,
which is resampled with the temporal result from the prior frame.

The old sample’s relative weight is 𝑀𝑟 /(𝑀𝑟 +1), which drastically
favors this sample. This is akin to an exponential moving average

Reusing prior frame samples initially improves Monte Carlo variance. But until 𝑀𝑟 reaches the cap, the relative weight of new samples diminishes, increasing frame-to-frame correlation. This is analogous to sample impoverishment common in SIR: fewer and fewer
unique samples remain, unless this correlation buildup is halted.

Eventually, increased correlation overshadows the benefits of
reuse (red, orange) leading to higher variance until 𝑀-cap is reached.
Capping 𝑀 to maximize the benefits of temporal reuse (green) is
key to real-time rendering with ReSTIR. Figure 10 shows the visual
impact of capping M.

also interesting to note

[indigo summit]

that would be the MaxHistoryLevel param I think?

seems theres benefits to going to 20

[whole girder]

well, yes, but also downsides

I don't turn up RTTXDI temporal samples (MaxHistoryLevel) until the higher levels of the mod

because of the fps drops moving the camera on lower cards are much more noticable

and I wouldn't put too much stock in those papers... ReSTIRPT is very promising but it's not in CP... and while CP has a lot of elements (ReGIR, SHARC, etc.) we don't know how they're wired up, or if they are properly.... some things are not behaving how I'd expect vs. how they're described in the papers

[indigo summit]

yeah ReSTIR PT isnt in Cyberpunk, I accidently conflated ReGIR with GRIS

my understanding is with GRIS you wont have RTXDI/GI being separate

[whole girder]

there are a few gits with tests using bits and pieces of things, I've found some of their settings very informative (like lower RTXDI temporal samples)

yeah, ReSTIRPT does away with the separate direct and indirect/diffuse model

[indigo summit]

I think PT will debut with the 5000 series, my gut feeling at least

[whole girder]

i don't understand why they separated them anyway really...

[indigo summit]

by memory there was ReSTIR

then a paper of ReSTIR GI

so ReSTIR DI was basically the foundation for the first wave of ray tracing

but not in its current form, like a early ReSTIR for say BF5/Control

GRIS strips the whole of ReSTIR to its core and then redoes the math I think to generalise it into a singular algorithm

though I need to build up my math to comprehend these papers

[whole girder]

also it still seems to me this whole thing (PT) would be far more efficient to do inside a neural network. not just the denoiser... use the NN for the rays as well. because the problem with any PT is knowing which rays will come back to the camera and which won't. whereas in a neural network, there is implied correlation between the neurons, which could translate to knowing which rays need to be traced (and which don't)... this is similar to "spooky action at a distance" where two elections appear to "know" what the other is doing (quantum entanglement). we could do this in a NN... there's no way to do it on Nvidias current trajectory of brute force PT, with the NN only for denoising

[whole girder]

yes I think they've had to go through these progressive steps to work out how to do it iteratively

[whole girder]

well, the first step is to understanding the raytracing equation, because there's no getting around it. and then understanding the simplified RT equation

or you can use Phong in some situations

because for the initial samples you really only need to know what hire and what misses, so you can use vastly simplified equations

Zyanide has some excellent articles on this with visual examples as he tries crazy things http://zyanidelab.com/world-space-path-resampling/

and don't worry, for my integral calculous lessons I was mostly chasing boys 😂

but I also think at school and some of uni it was very... esoteric... they never game us examples or why we'd need it. at least in this situation we have a practical use

[indigo summit]

isnt that essentially the neural radiance cache

using some of the theory of ReSTIR on where to focus the cache, then using NN to figure out where to reuse rays

[mystic shadow]

Why does the ultra+ page say not to give gits priority over ultra+ unless you have a 4090?

[whole girder]

a little. it sounds like they're using nn to intelligently focus work. this would be the next level where the rays are actually constructed within the neural weights.

if you imagine a room with 10000 x 10000 x 10000 pixels (let's keep it simple), that can be represented by 1 billion neurons. this seems like a lot but the advantage is if there is a valid path from the camera, to a wall, then another wall, then back to camera, the NN can understand this and trace that path, and not trace other paths that don't return to camera.

once again this is similar to how *lightning (electrical potential) seems to know where to go. that is because there is an underlying information system.

in the current approaches, the information system is separate from the tracing. we are trying to trace > analyse > adapt > trace > analyse ... etc. the information system is separate from the actual tracing

within a NN the *information system is the tracing. it would be magnitudes more efficient

but how would you even start? well, you would feed the meshes, materials, lights, and motion vectors to the NN, and use reinforcement learning

the downside to this approach though is how do you make games/3D look different or distinct... this is where I think you could use another few neural networks that modify the primary "path tracing" one

[gilded summit]

i basically already said as much, but Ultra gets priority with a regular instal, but gits aims at quality and has less eye for balance. Im like that too, its all preference really. Thats why Ultra+ has 4 different setups too, the heaviest being way harder to run than if you just run gits.

I edited out a bunch of tweaks in the Gits ini, as to make it compatible with Ultra plus on my system

cant really remember what exactly but these are the specific ini files

RTXDIY is likely the only relevant and relight

also cp just updated -.-

i cri evertim

[mystic shadow]

What is the difference between editing them manually like that and just giving ultra+ priority? Apologies, I find this all incredibly confusing

Like why not just use the heavy version of ultra+ and let it have priority over GITS, if you want quality

[whole girder]

what!?

[gilded summit]

imho, just stick to the simpler mods for now, once you get a bit into modding, you can do silly stuff like this (honestly its not adviced)

but just install it like regular, which gives ultra + priority, you likely will get 99.9% better results

its just that i obsess over things (like many other modders), and we want to squeeze that last 0.1 % out 😄

[mystic shadow]

no i get it

i'm the same way lol

i just haven't modded this game in a long time

also there's like 40 gits files

to make it even more confusing

[gilded summit]

haha they are basically all the same, exept for the lut

[mystic shadow]

so these are just the effects files?

minus the LUT

[gilded summit]

all those are small tweaks, the brunt of the mod is in the archive file

[mystic shadow]

ah ok now we're talkin

I'm looking at their mod page and this looks great

i assume it's all ENV stuff

[gilded summit]

no

its a bit more complex i think

[whole girder]

me too. that's why I made ultra+ quite literally

[mystic shadow]

haha

[gilded summit]

🙂

[whole girder]

also if there's anything you're unhappy with let me know and I'll help

my mods are really just ADHD things that make me angry about the game lol

[gilded summit]

my character looks perfect with 0 mods, don't even have to censor anything, because its already that way 😄

[mystic shadow]

I'm just finding the gits thing very confusing that's all

ha

which file is which on that page

i don't think it's labeled clearly

[whole girder]

that's mostly the env mod 😊

I run gits Fuji 3.x too

I love it, though it does have a magenta cast, I just offset that with my monitor settings

[mystic shadow]

like what's the difference between "01 GITS FUJI" and "00 FUJI ENV"

lolol

Then there's fuji ENV Basic

that's where i'm getting stuck

I hate it when these things aren't crystal clear what is in each file

[whole girder]

I use
01 gits Fuji (without the env)
env basic (which is reLIGHT and reGLASS)
sosuine's alternative weather
ultra fog
ultra vignette

[mystic shadow]

do you use shortfuse's renodx mod

[gilded summit]

pretty close to my setup

[whole girder]

no the forked Reshade is crashing for me

I have to try and reinstall it but I've been busy

[mystic shadow]

i'm using his 6.0.0 forked one and it works

i saw you mentioned 6.0.1 yesterday

not sure if that helps

[whole girder]

oh! cool I'll try that

that worked for me

yep 6.0.1 but 6.0 worked fine for me

[gilded summit]

for your conveniance, you can just swap the dxgi.dll files

[whole girder]

oh nice, ty 😊

[mystic shadow]

so here's the env basic file

you're using all of this?

[whole girder]

where are your nipples 🤔

[gilded summit]

update ;.(

they took ur nipples

[mystic shadow]

meh i'll probably just skip git

shit is too confusing

lol

i'll figure it out later

[gilded summit]

GITSHDR. archive has lut + env + shit tons of other mods

[mystic shadow]

oh it's within the archive

[gilded summit]

yes

if you want the weather effects the mods but a different lut, you have to download that lut and give it priority

ENV files contain weahter, lighting, bloom, grain etc

[mystic shadow]

what if you unpacked the archive and just chose what you wanted

[gilded summit]

need wolvenkit for that

[mystic shadow]

yea

[gilded summit]

thats how i did it

[mystic shadow]

i did that a year or two ago

unpacked mods

it's just been a while

[gilded summit]

skyrim was super easy to mod compared to cpk

[mystic shadow]

ugh yea

thx for answering my stupid questions

[gilded summit]

especially since there is next to no info on env editing

[mystic shadow]

i think i'll probably just use the .fx files that are suggested for now

and come back to this later

once i get everything else set up

[gilded summit]

the ~200 mb mod(s) are nice though, lots of things like very nice rain, reflections inside car windows, some world edits that remove fake raster lights and much much more, but its a very ambitious mod, that does a lot of things, just like ultra plus, so you need to pay a lot of attention if you want to combine them

[mystic shadow]

do you guys suggest the 2.0 or 2.1 verison of ultra+. I assume these are two different path tracing looks? Pre patch 2.1 and post?

[gilded summit]

when i ran it i prefered the 2.1

[whole girder]

yes. I'm working on making u+ CET only. but it's hard without crashing the game lol

[gilded summit]

well i forgot which mod i need to remove after every update, pff

[whole girder]

tbh you can just use ultra+ and completely ignore the gits ini

[mystic shadow]

i cannot figure out what the difference between these 3 files are lol. They hvae the same file structure

also just realized these aren't updated for 2.12 it seems

[whole girder]

if I had a 4070 or 4080 I'd run PT21 no doubt. its visually better and newer tech. but I don't and I need the speed so I run PT20 😂

[gilded summit]

its in the discription of the download link

[mystic shadow]

For some reason i thought you guys had said 2.0 looked better than 2.1

[mystic shadow]

yea i'm sorry man, i'm just not getting it even after reading the descriptions multiple times

i'm not just ignoring it

just dont get it

can someone just explain like i'm 5

[gilded summit]

its understandable

[mystic shadow]

I'm not a dumb person so this must be objectively confusing if i'm not getting it

lol

[gilded summit]

honestly just install the biggest file, from the lut you think looks the best (see pictures for comparisons)

actually do you use a mod organiser?

[mystic shadow]

yep

MO2

using a wabbajack install modlist (no visual mods)

[gilded summit]

o idk how those works

[mystic shadow]

https://github.com/z9er/CyberpunkTHING/blob/main/Wabbajack/Readme.md

gonna use this

then layer visual mods on top

Do you guys ever voice chat here? I feel like if we voice chat later, you could explain this to me in like 1 minute

would be easier ha

[whole girder]

you're good! I find it confusing too!

I install

• 01 GITS FUJI (only the GITSHDR.archive, ignore the rest)
• FUJI ENV (only the 5x .xl files, ignore the rest)

done!

[mystic shadow]

Haha it IS confusing, right?/??!

i'm not crazy i dont think

[whole girder]

yep! 😂 I don't install his hot fixes either

[mystic shadow]

lol

[mystic shadow]

2nd bullet....the Fuji BASIC one?

[whole girder]

I'm happy to voice, I'm just about asleep tho

[mystic shadow]

nah not right now

after work 🙂

just starting my day

but thank you for agreeing

i wanted to have this set up last night but ran out of time

[whole girder]

I do the full FUJI ENV, but I only grab the xl files (not the archive)

[mystic shadow]

same fx files between that one and the basic right?

[whole girder]

because I use alternative weather and ultra fog

[gilded summit]

this already has the env though

[whole girder]

cause it gives this blown out blue horizon look I live https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1180413261133402112/1219874057026142208/image.png?ex=660ce33f&is=65fa6e3f&hm=713791fcc169d77314dee480a354924df69c3fb5a5a5f1036518c157ca002625&

[whole girder]

oh dies it have the xl files? I don't install the env

only GITSHDR

[mystic shadow]

the ultra+ mod page says to grab the fx files from the "basic" optional file

i assume it doesn't matter?

all the same fx files?

[whole girder]

oh! probably then 😊

[gilded summit]

env files are easily overwritten by giving them priority

but it does have all the files

[whole girder]

yes that's true

[gilded summit]

that wabbajack thing looks interesting

[mystic shadow]

yea it's all gameplay mods

no visual

[gilded summit]

wrong reply but anyways

[mystic shadow]

np lol

[gilded summit]

nice

[mystic shadow]

but just to confirm, the fx files are the same from all the files? It's just the archive that changes between them?

unorganized mod pages drive me absolutely insane

lol

like why can't you just label things clearly...

😦

[gilded summit]

the .xl files and the ini files are all the same

[mystic shadow]

ty

[whole girder]

I'm not sure

some of them light up the fast travel things, some don't

I have the ones that do

I can send them tomorrow if need be

2.12a 😭 https://twitter.com/CDPRED_Support/status/1770415444060496087

CD PROJEKT RED CS (@CDPRED_Support) on X

We've just released an update for #Cyberpunk2077 on PC. It fixes the crash that occurred when actions were assigned to side buttons on Razer mice. The update won't change the version of the game visible in the main menu but it could affect mods.

Twitter · Mar 20, 2024, 11:41 AM

[mystic shadow]

was there just a patch?

ugh

how do i downgrade

lol

[whole girder]

yup

[mystic shadow]

are there downgrade instructions

uh oh, which one is it

i have the DLC as well

it shows the two top ones as updated today but not the "ultimate edition"

[mystic shadow]

Does anyone happen to know if i only need to downgrade the top one?

[mystic shadow]

Looks like it'll need both nvm - EDIT: nvm didn't work. flags an error about a version mismatch. Guess i'll just have to wait for mod updates

[mystic shadow]

@whole girdersomething wrong with your ultraplus download file off nexus

doesn't open

7zip can't open it

oh it's probably firefox flagging it as malicious

it flags so much shit as false positive these days

yep that's what it was

what do these files do

this is likely why it was being flagged

[craggy vessel]

No viruses or extrange things, i recompiled the script yesterday

[mystic shadow]

What do the two files above do? For whatever reason, Firefox was blocking it

I know there are no viruses lol. I didn't think you guys were malicious 😉

obviously false positives

[craggy vessel]

Standybylist is some processes stored in the ram for fast response, for example precharged websites, or assets.
It frees the ram they are using. It is not recommended because it does not filter which processes are using it and can lead to failures. But it is very useful for PCs with little ram, some of those processes can also use some VRAM, besides windows is generous, if it sees that you have a lot, it will use more. For example in my case it can consume 1,6GB of VRAM, but when you play the textures and all over write so don't worry. This is why if you have a video in the browser and you start playing and it uses 100% of Vram or close to it, you will see how the video web crashes.

Cleaning the standby is only recommended if the PC has been open for a long time or if several programs have been used previously. For example you opened Photoshop, closed it, some program files are stored in RAM being used as cache so that when you open it again it will load faster.

For your understanding it is a reserved part of RAM that is not being used. But it is anticipated that it can be used and will be used as a cache.

[craggy vessel]

Thats it

It is a bit counterproductive, because after a while windows will have to reload everything into RAM. I will show SammiLucia how to do it right. Or directly remove the script. We have already thought about this and discussed it this morning, about the game cache, reshade and Directx cache. I also plan to optimize for each CPU, for example in ryzen is always better to use a single CCX , in intel the cores closer to the Mesh if it is old or accelerate the ring in the most modern . This has impact on fps 5-15% , but mostly on stuttering, or low FPS.

90% of people do not know how to take their PC to the maximum it can give (within safe margins), I've even seen people with a 4090 I have a 4080, perform less than me and get them FPS.

[mystic shadow]

Can I just delete those 2 tools so i dont run it by mistake?

If it can cause failures then i dont want anything to do with it lol

[craggy vessel]

Yes u can

[mystic shadow]

thx

when you say failures....you mean it can fuck your RAM up? Or you just need to restart

[craggy vessel]

Nooo hahaha,

[mystic shadow]

haha thank god

just checking 😉

[craggy vessel]

Some programs crash

[mystic shadow]

hehe

[craggy vessel]

Or a BSOD if a kernel one is touched

[mystic shadow]

is there an issue with the most current ultra+? Saw in the comments that something broke

what is the last version before the latest patch? 3.1?

i'm trying to downgrade my game

[craggy vessel]

3.3.1

I dont recomend to use cyberpunk in the versión 2.1

Why do you want 2.11 and not 2.12?

[mystic shadow]

No, I mean I want 2.12, not 2.12a (this morning's update)

3.3.1 appears broken

[craggy vessel]

You must also set the version of Red4ext , Archive , Codeware , Redscript. For 2.11 it is not backward compatible. If you do not have more mods is fine but as you have it is very likely that you will have to check one by one because it will corrupt the cache of the scripts.

Aaaah ok shdhhss

[mystic shadow]

no no, no 2.11

2.12 lol

just without this morning's small razor update bullshit

[craggy vessel]

Oh no , she did it again

I want to cry

[mystic shadow]

so that's why i asked if 3.1 is best to use rn

if I can sucessfully roll the game bakc

[craggy vessel]

Use this one

[teal imp]

game update today broke CET anyway

[mystic shadow]

yea that's why i'm tryna downgrade

back to the feb 29th build

not sure if it'll work

i'm tryna downgrade both base and dlc

[craggy vessel]

Fck i dont have the files in the phone

[mystic shadow]

no worries

i assume version 3.1 is the latest from yesterday

[craggy vessel]

Yes

[mystic shadow]

🙂

[craggy vessel]

3.2 also

[mystic shadow]

yea but 3.2 has that issue

it seems

[craggy vessel]

3.2 is the fixed one

I did it like 14 hours ago

[mystic shadow]

oh

what exactly is ultra control

is that built into the main file

i dont even see 3.2

i see 3.1 and 3.3.1

[craggy vessel]

I need to sleep in 3 or 4 hours im back , and i fix all

[mystic shadow]

lolol np

[mystic shadow]

I got the downgrade to work

Feb 29th build patch 2.12

[mystic shadow]

Windows flags the dlssD.bat as a severe trojen FYI

lol

[winged coral]

defender is going insane lately, it's so dumb

[mystic shadow]

It's flagging it because it's auto downloading something from the internet

so i get why it's flagged

Shortfuse's reshade fork does something similar

it triggers a "cloud threat scan"

same with the renodx.addon

it all pisses defender off

[winged coral]

it's actually not because of that, other stuff gets flagged as wacatac too

[mystic shadow]

Maybe shortfuse is just hacking me

that's fine

[mystic shadow]

Is there an easy way to tell if the ultra+ mod wsa installed properly?

I guess just as long as you see the CET menu?

[craggy vessel]

Im back guys, i start cooking to fix all

[craggy vessel]

If u want the correct script is this one

[mystic shadow]

can i just download it manually?

[craggy vessel]

Yes

https://us4-dl.techpowerup.com/files/0MrVufdk_-xqta-5hCCwtA/1710889012/nvngx_dlssd_3.7.0.zip

[mystic shadow]

great

ty

How do you set load order for mods? I use MO2

is it just the order it's in?

[craggy vessel]

Umm

How to explainit

U must use this, to see if u have conflics

And add ## at the begining of a file to be loaded at top

[whole girder]

I'm malicious

don't stress, I'm about to fix it..just woke up

need coffee..coding before coffee is bad

[craggy vessel]

Im doing the work, dont worries hahah

https://tenor.com/view/business-cat-working-cat-boss-angry-gif-13655998

[mystic shadow]

Don't hack me, bro

i assume this means i installed the mod correctly?

and i chose the "high" preset. So these are the options that are configured for high?

I used the PT2.1 file so not sure why "vanilla" is checked @whole girder. Did I do something wrong

[signal flicker]

I call in open season on hacking this dude 😂

[mystic shadow]

I'm behind 6 proxies so good luck

(not sure if you're too young to remember that meme)

[craggy vessel]

Yes

[mystic shadow]

shouldn't the top section be on pt21?

[craggy vessel]

im rebranding some buttons to avoid confusion

Yep the top must be pt21 or pt20

[mystic shadow]

i used the pt21 config

is it supposed to default to vanilla

[craggy vessel]

Im working in the new version , so if u wait some mins u can get it :3

[mystic shadow]

Will it work with the rolled back 2.12 version?

i rolled the game back to before today's patch

[signal flicker]

Likely, that remark also rewarded you this; the first one here taking all of BR4P's Steam games, earns Legendary status here Edit: please don't of course haha

[craggy vessel]

Yes

This mod only stop working if the engine settings has been changed in the update

[mystic shadow]

great

then yea i'll just install the new version when ready

would someone be willing to talk to me in voice chat to explain which gits 3.x files are which

shit is confusing af

lol

ultra+ is explained well

gits is not

Do we even have a voice chat channel?

[signal flicker]

Nope

Honestly don't think we really need one haha. As this Discord is mainly about IMAGE quality 😛

[mystic shadow]

@craggy vesselHello friend. Can I voice call you? How's your English?

so both xerme and sammilucia work on this mod?

[craggy vessel]

Im from Spain so haha

[whole girder]

yes! 😊

[whole girder]

no

how did i break it so badly

[mystic shadow]

hmm

I need gits help lol

i just wanna pop in voice chat somewhere

it's too hard to understand with text

also i'm baked rn

[signal flicker]

Please don't come in here asking for advise regarding things when stoned

Especially a voice chat could go problematic when your inhibitions are off due to having smoked

So, please sleep it out and ask it again tomorrow 🙂

[mystic shadow]

That's ridiculous

[signal flicker]

Lets agree to disagree then here 🙂

[mystic shadow]

I'm stoned most of the time I'm here fyi

It's not like i'm drunk and going to scream on voice chat

but this is off topic

[signal flicker]

That is off-topic and honestly not the appropriate place to talk about this

[mystic shadow]

Hey, you started it man

I was just asking for help with gits

Plus I literally have a medical card for pain

I figured out gits. First few are ENV+LUT, second few are ENV, last few are LUTs. Idk why that was so hard to figure out from the page

[teal imp]

NRD is now almost as clean as RR but without the issues of the latter, at least with insane config

https://tenor.com/view/impressive-darth-vader-gif-13593833

[mystic shadow]

does the game force CAS or is CAS the dlss sharpening slider

[gilded summit]

i'm fairly sure cas is only used if you have it anabled in reshade or amd driver

dlss sharpening is nvidia's sharpening, that is only available though manually editing the dll or game sliders i think

[mystic shadow]

The ultra+ mod comes with a folder for "reshade sharpening" and says "Sharpen textures but not edges

I've included this simply because I'm unhappy with DLSS sharpening in this game and prefer something similar to Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (CAS).

CAS is enabled in the game by default, however I can't control the strength of it easily (currently looking for a way).

So for now, when I play personally I'm disabling CAS by setting ConstrastAdaptiveSharpening = false in the Ultra+ ini (note, the spelling error is correct, don't change it) and using this Reshade instead.

It applies LumaSharpen which is visually similar to CAS (you could use CAS as well) and then uses a very fast SMAA antialias. The effect is, it noticably sharpens tesxtures without making their edges too sharp.

(It doesn't modify colour or the look of the game, only texture sharpness.)"

[gilded summit]

CAS is enabled in the game by default, <- i didn't know this, but i guess you have to update your reshade to include the luma sharpen effect and tweak the settings in reshade to your liking

[mystic shadow]

i may just use lilium's CAS HDR shader

since he made it specifically for HDR

and i can disable it in the ultra+ in i guess

[gilded summit]

sounds good to me

it should be disabled by default because the ini setting from ultra plus

"So for now, when I play personally I'm disabling CAS by setting ConstrastAdaptiveSharpening = false in the Ultra+ ini (note, the spelling error is correct, don't change it) and using this Reshade instead."

[mystic shadow]

it's set to true

just checked

[gilded summit]

idk if thats the default

[mystic shadow]

in the ultra ini

[gilded summit]

ah ok

well its up to you, i guess i never messed with it, but im kinda curious after seeing some comparison shot in a different game

[mystic shadow]

eh i might just leave it alone actually

i'll see

maybe sammi has comparison folders

[gilded summit]

im not 100% sure, but i think i have read somewhere that it is available in nvidia's filters too

personally i would stick to reshade though

if i remember correctly you have a 4080 s, so might try dlss sharpening first (if you use dlss)

[mystic shadow]

I'm not sure the game needs any extra sharpening at 1440p honestly

oh, do you recommend the -1.0 mipmaps

that would probably look sharper as well

[gilded summit]

honestly no idea but i think nvidia does this default in the driver

[mystic shadow]

If the in game slider is nis then it's the same as the driver and geforce overlay filter

[gilded summit]

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-jeff-bridges-jeffrey-lebowski-the-dude-stir-gif-4685331

[indigo summit]

https://d1qx31qr3h6wln.cloudfront.net/publications/hpg21_rearchitectingReSTIR.pdf

[mystic shadow]

was this fixed? Multiple people are saying the increased ads draw distance mod doesn't work with Ultra+

i don't even see that line in the ultra+ ini that they suggest editing out...

[craggy vessel]

Ummm i have the mod and Works

Also yesterday i did a screenshot on the top of arasaka tower of the all city and the ads was rendered

[mystic shadow]

I'm not even seeing that "maxstreamingdistance" line in the ultra+.ini

perhaps it was removed in a recent version?

those comments are from March 18th so would have had to be pretty recent