Bring back the covers channel

[fallow heath]

With one condition, forbit file uploads (includes places like Google Docs but excludes places like Youtube or Reddit) there for copyright reasons.

[wind crescent]

Vote for this suggestion!

[modern crescent]

Already answered here https://discord.com/channels/1159260121998827560/1160932092293685299

[fallow heath]

What about Fair Use?

[fallow heath]

.

[modern crescent]

Big entities like the RIAA and UMG don't generally care about that. If it's copyrighted then they'll just DMCA you

[fallow heath]

I'm not a lawyer, but Google Fair Use. By definition it's a law that allows usage of copyrighted content without consent for reasons like education, research, news and, of course, parody purposes.

The only way you can solve this is by showing them right in their faces legality over using copyrighted material for parody purposes.

Not every country is Japan, which is known for not accepting Fair Use unlike some others such as Europe (correct me if I'm wrong here), and I bet no one responsible for owning and moderating the old Ai Hub is from Japan, especially the owners. If the feature comes back and Discord takes this server down for copyright reasons, it's best to find ways to bypass it using things like Fair Use or similar that protects content used without the original owner's consent for parody purposes if they exist.
However, since I'm not a lawyer and ai voice covers are a pretty new technology, there's nothing legal I can do to help other than intensive research because, like I said, I'm no lawyer.

[floral bone]

Copyright is like owning a special recipe for a dish you created. When you have the copyright, it means you have the exclusive right to make and sell that dish. Others can't copy your recipe and sell it without your permission. Copyright laws are in place to protect the work of creators, whether it's a recipe, a song, a book, or any other creative work. So, when you see a copyright symbol (©) on something, it's a sign that the creator has legal rights over it, and you can't use it without their permission unless there's an exception like fair use.

Copyright is a legal protection that gives creators exclusive rights over their work, such as books, music, and art. It means others can't use or copy their work without permission. Fair use, on the other hand, is a legal exception that allows limited use of copyrighted material for purposes like education, criticism, or commentary without permission, but it depends on specific circumstances and is not a blanket rule.

[fallow heath]

What about non-profit ai covers?

[ebon brook]

@fallow heath has reached level 2.

[floral bone]

Non-profit AI covers can still potentially involve copyright considerations. Whether something qualifies as fair use, even in a non-profit context, depends on various factors, such as the purpose of the use, the nature of the copyrighted material, the amount used, and the effect on the market for the original work.

If a non-profit AI cover falls within the scope of fair use, it may be considered permissible without obtaining explicit permission from the copyright holder. However, this determination can be complex and often requires a case-by-case analysis. It's essential to remember that non-profit status alone doesn't automatically make a use fair under copyright law. Consultation with legal counsel or experts in copyright law may be necessary to assess the specific circumstances and ensure compliance with copyright regulations.

[keen dune]

slow typer alert

[fallow heath]

I guess only a real lawyer can help us now. Nonetheless, doing ai covers is the bot equivalent of doing voice impressions of whoever you want.

[keen dune]

you can still make covers. with the wordband bot. its just people can't see it.

idk what that has to do with this argument

Im dumb

[floral bone]

Creating AI covers is similar to doing voice impressions in that we use copyrighted material as a reference. Just like an impressionist might listen to a famous voice and mimic it, AI systems analyze and replicate the characteristics of voices or instruments from copyrighted sources. However, it's important to remember that while this process involves copyrighted material, it doesn't grant us the right to use that material without permission. It's like using a famous painting as a reference for creating your artwork; the original painting is still protected by copyright, but your new creation must be a separate work inspired by it.

[ebon brook]

@floral bone has reached level 11.

[keen dune]

can't you just share the covers through youtube?

[fallow heath]

I assume that ai covers could be under Fair Use when done correctly for transformative media.

[floral bone]

You can, however, your account could be subjected to termination if you gain enough strikes from violating copyright. So we do not want to encourage this.

[floral bone]

AI covers have the potential to fall under fair use when created as transformative media. Fair use permits limited use of copyrighted material for transformative purposes, such as commentary, parody, or creating something new and different. However, whether an AI cover qualifies for fair use depends on factors like its purpose, the nature of the original work, the amount used, and its effect on the market for the original. If an AI cover adds a new creative dimension, alters the meaning, and doesn't harm the market for the original work, it may have a strong case for fair use. Nonetheless, fair use is a nuanced and case-specific concept, and seeking legal advice is advisable for clarity on copyright and fair use in AI cover creation.

[keen dune]

i created 4 covers or something none of them were strikes.
plus theres like ai cover channels that never get striked down.

[floral bone]

As I said, we do not want to risk our chances.

[fallow heath]

On Youtube I only upload ai covers of songs that don't risk any copyright claims (basically excluding songs like Michael Jackson songs or songs banned there like Pewdiepie's Coco), much less strikes or takedowns, regardless of being royalty free or not but somehow permitted by original owners like Sonic music.
The rest goes on Reddit. I've seen a community dedicated to ai covers (r/AICoverSongs), which is still present today, no DMCAs, other copyright takedowns or anything.

[floral bone]

It's great to hear about your positive experiences with communities and platforms that allow you to post copyrighted content. However, in our Discord, we cannot take this risk or permit copyrighted content. Our guidelines prioritize compliance with copyright laws to maintain a safe and respectful environment for all members and to minimize risk of server deletion again.

[fallow heath]

Kinda like I said earlier, only real lawyers can help us with the legal ai cover problem. We need to take advantage with rules such as Fair Use and similars.

[floral bone]

I get what you're saying about fair use, but it's important to remember that fair use can be tricky and isn't a sure thing. We prefer to play it safe in our community. Instead of relying on fair use, we avoid using copyrighted material altogether to prevent any legal issues. Our top priority is making sure our community stays safe and respectful for everyone.

[fallow heath]

Yes, but if it gets taken down, we know what we have to do.

[floral bone]

Counter point, we can avoid getting taken down, if we just avoid using copyrighted material altogether.

[fallow heath]

Unless we have a lawyer ready, I guess you're right for now. Just in case for yet another DMCA or something.

[floral bone]

I truly empathize with your frustration about not being able to share AI covers. It's been tough for all of us, especially considering the precautions we took in the past. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, the covers channel was deleted, and we lost our entire community, along with all the interactions and memories we had built.

I believe it's essential to learn from that experience and prioritize the stability and safety of our community. As much as I understand the desire to share fun content like anime characters singing, I'm personally not willing to take the risk of going through all of that again. The potential consequences just don't seem worth it.

[fallow heath]

Basically, my idea involves this:
Firstly, we play safe until we found a lawyer that can help us regarding ai covers.
Secondly, once we find out that the lawyer found a way to fix the legal issue (otherwise no covers channel), we take the risk and if there's a DMCA we need to find ways to restore the server and channel back, even down to making agreements with the original copyright owners themselves.
Lastly, once everything is settled, if we win, the covers channel needs to be brought back, but if we fail, we just don't.

[floral bone]

I understand your eagerness to bring back the covers channel through legal means, but we must also consider the factors of both finances and time. Legal procedures often come with substantial costs and protracted durations, and their outcomes can be unpredictable, even with legal representation. It's worth recalling that we've previously experienced the loss of our community and content. In my view, it is paramount that we place a premium on the stability and security of our community.

[fallow heath]

Or, if we fail, best case scenario, back to server with no covers channel.
Nonetheless, if you just don't want to take any risks, why not do both?
Not doing it until some random lawyer who knows a lot about Fair Use may be able to help us out of miracles.

[fallow heath]

And yes, I understand what you said. I was just giving you some advice just in case, for the good of both copyright holders and us.

[floral bone]

I value your advice, but I've already discussed this with a family member who is a lawyer in a reputable firm. We talked about the ever-evolving nature of AI and the lack of clear laws around it. The conclusion was that the outcome of legal actions in this area is uncertain, and we don't have the financial means to engage in a legal battle with RIAA.

[fallow heath]

I guess the lack of clear laws regarding ai voices it's only because it's such a new technology, legality can tend to be confusing.
So, overall, we're both right I guess.

[floral bone]

Please understand, one of us is a licensed attorney, and the other isn't.

[fallow heath]

We need to guard ourselves from copyright. And if something lucky comes to us, we can take some advantage once we found out how exactly.
If you don't want to take any risks for copyright reasons then I understand and our chat regarding it is closed. It's called friendly agreement.
Long story short, unless we luckily somehow manage to legally get the legal usage of the covers channel, that channel may remain in a private hiatus.

[fallow heath]

.