#Combat and Style thus far (10/31/05)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

thorny merlin
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Heyo! Played around for a few hours with the new update going for a general feel. Some of this will sound redundant, and again, this is just a random internet rando's opinion, so grain of lurid salt and all that.

Combat:

Regarding melee, pretty much a glorious click fest where the biggest danger is not spamming a healing potion fast enough.

**Dual weapons: **
Remains the sultan (read:king) in terms of ease of use and raw damage, for the most part. The damage can ramp up, and you aren't locked in animations more often than not.

Additionally you have the creative window to use different world and weapon drops (and thus more stats AND style), and while most of the 'special' attacks are still lackluster, you at least can have a variety depending on your weapon types.

**Weapon and shield: **
Works, but the damage progress is slow, and while you are 'tanking' your allies tend to get chewed up regardless. At least you can mostly block with this approach, but the animation and lining up still feels less useful and viable than just spamming roll, dark souls style.

Also as you tend to be swarmed by foes in great number, this quickly negates your advantage of taking less damage 1v1, and you can't block from the back and the front (assuming your block doesn't get broken anyway).

** 2 Handed Weapons:**
A... mixed bag. If you cram enough points into agility you can swing them around fast enough to not die instantly while your back is exposed on the wind up or recovery, but then you are crippling your much needed HP (vitality) or damage dealing potential (Strength).

Additionally anything other than the shield is absolutely useless regarding blocking. You would think a big two handed blade would make blocking at least have some body to it, but for now this isn't the case.

In my not so humble opinion, 2 handers feel floaty, lack impact, and feel inferior to dual wielding (and sometimes single wielding) in most respects.

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**Balance: **
As mentioned before, dw deals superior damage to 2Handed, AND has the benefit of two sets of stats, (as they are two different bits of gear).

DW feels like a blender going brrrr, which is pretty fun! Especially with two blades it is really leaning into the dervish whirlwind sort of vibe.

2 Handed feels a bit like a struggle in comparison, neat looking oversized weapons aside.

I'd suggest that heavy weapons such as 2 handed, or maces/warhammers have additional hitstun, impact, or both when they connect, with 'heavy' attacks outright interrupting or occasionally stunning foes on impact.

Additionally, 2 Handed should probably deal partial or chip damage to a block that isn't a shield. Rolling or avoiding the giant sluggish hit box should be the answer, not standing in place.

Lastly, maybe this is a skill tree thing or whatnot, but 2 Handed weapons should probably deal increased raw damage based off strength.

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**Vibe and Feel: **

Lots of weapons feel the same currently, but that's probably just a early access sort of thing. Here's a few noticeable outliers, though.

Spears feel kind of... off. Like you'd think they would be superior at range for a bit of poking, especially if you are going sparta style with a shield.

(Also worth mentioning for potential special moves: Sparta kick? Knockdown, stun, all that good stuff.)

Instead you mostly twirl with a short sword swinging style of animation. It works, but it hardly feels like you are using the pokey end to stick holes in the baddies.

Maces are nearly identical to axes in terms of pacing, gameplay, and atmosphere. Instead of a tonk blap meaty impact sounds you have the sounds of ripping and tearing.

They work, as does every weapon, but a little extra style to make them feel different than the others probably wouldn't be amiss.

Swords are great! They do sword things. About the only thing that comes to mind here is if you were making a more poke heavy style, such as rapiers and whatnot, but that could easily dovetail into the daggers, giving them extra range.

Swashbuckling and lunges are neat concepts, but that's also not exactly the genre you are rolling with here, haha.

That said, attacks that change up the anticipated range of a strike with lunges, heavy golf swings and the like could be a way to vary up the melee experience for both the player and antagonists. (Though the swarms of foes may also be a bit tricky to deal with if they all can whip out being moves at the same time.)

Shields probably should reward the player with extended foe stun and recoil if you time a block, though I'm not sure how you would balance that for 1v1 foes that are boss types.

Diminishing returns, perhaps? The first time is effective, the next is less so, to the point of it being less useful after a set time?

thorny merlin
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World, Colors, Atmosphere:

While I don't have every bit of graphic setting cranked to the maximum, while the ladies look great in the castle and sprucing them up, seeing them in action is a mixed bag.

This is possibly due to most of the combat and scene encounters are in a nighttime or misty setting, which while on brand for the secret enforcers of the Sultan story and plot, but as a player, the visual impact are a bit muted.

The colors don't seem to pop quite as much as they could, leading to a big swath of greys and browns in some stages.

The underground waters with the goblins are a pretty solid example of this. The map is a neat looking mix of browns and architecture, but the goblins themselves are a muted brown in color instead of a vibrant green or... anything else at all, really. So it all sort of blends together, foes and terrain, presentation wise.

Unique foes and monster races should probably pop in terms of visual eye candy.

The boss there, the grey skinned... undead? lady flailing with her fists was interesting, but it made me wonder why my heroine can't crack some jaws and delicates with the power of fistcuffs too.

(That boss tends to get shredded by fast attacks such as dual wielding though, as blocking with her hands does not work in her favor. Not sure if it's intentional, but it makes her a far easier fight than a bandit boss or the undead summoner in the crypt.)

Audio:

Touched on earlier, but some different sounds for impact regarding weapons would be nice. At least for wood and metal impact types versus slashing and stabbing.

Also an audio que or sound of when a bow is being strung and/or arrows whistling by (or impacting!) would also be wonderful. Sometimes it's hard to observe when you are being pinged by arrows, or your allies are shooting at things.

The explosive effect from your companion's arrow special detonating is also muted and could probably use a audio nod to its utility and swag.

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Hrm. Other than that? Perhaps some sounds for your footsteps, depending if the footwear is flat, exposed flesh, or stilettos and heels.

My allies also seem unable to chill currently; I'll tell them to hold off at one location due to being at low health, fight a few things, and they will run into the brunt of the battle at their glorious 5% HP with predictable results. Points for trying, though!

Special attacks are already a wip, so no need to harp on that. I dig the animations, but they just need some extra oomph and damage to make them worth using.

Although one idea would be not to have the cooldown share between the weapon sets, giving the player a reason to swap, use a special, then swap to the other at some point, taking advantage of their loadout.

Suggestions aside, the game is running pretty darned smooth. No huge glaring bugs, no crashes, no slowdown even when 10+ goblins are trying to nom on my pretty defined ankles.

The bones and foundation are looking solid!

tame mason
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Oh well this one is a quite detailed feedback

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We will discuss everything you wrote, thanks a lot for taking time to bring us this

thorny merlin
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Game deserves the love, and I'm sure a lot of these suggestions are already in the pipeline besides, haha.

glad loom
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nice write-up, agree with most of what you wrote, especially the dualwield vs 2h weapon parts

thorny merlin
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A couple more random thoughts after goofing around:

Sprint attacks.

While running, press attack (or heavy), do a thing. Possibly a lunge, or big whack, or ... something. Toss in a heavy stamina cost if its more effective than the norm, but this could be a good way to vary up attacks, or close in distance.

I just noticed that I spend a lot of time running at archers or foes about to eat my companions, so this seems complimentary for running at the opposition about to swing and whatnot.

**Shields Up. **

Watching my silly companion AI roam around with the shield lifted high constantly makes me think that maybe the shield could be a toggle, or just be able to roam with a faster decent walk speed with it lifted up, just to annoy archers.

Also it would be nice to be able to bop foes with it to break their guard as a unique heavy attack, which can double as a parry, perhaps.

Riposte.

If and when guarding becomes more effective, unique weapon swing attacks that can follow up a successful (non broken) parry within a few active frames could be neat.

Add in a hitspark, fancy grunt, animation, and whatnot. Give the player a treat for using a well timed combat technique.

Will only work from a 'fresh' block, timed to parry a thing, rather than just holding the block button up and active.

Maybe a talent tree or special foe only, so not to get slaughtered when all the AI decides to block at the same time, though.

Knockback and Ragdoll.

Hitting foes with heavy slow weapons such as the hammer may feel a bit more satisfying if they went flying a bit.

If a bunch of foes are standing around your character in a circle and you are swinging a blade or spear nearly twice your height around they should probably get knocked away a bit, rather than being able to stand with the heaviest of cement shoes.

tame mason
thorny merlin
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You had me at doggo.