Nothing dsr can’t fix
#pc-gaming
full flint
torpid heath
kinda fax
smoky flame
wait, there is scaling issues with 1440p? People been recommending I get a 1440p monitor. That doesn't sound like an issue I want to put up with. If 1440p requires some tweaking to get games looking right on a game by game basis I'd rather stick to 1080p or go straight up to 4K
torpid heath
that's the usual consensus. you can also try doing some personal research
marsh linden
Thinking about building a pc for the first time and making the jump from console to pc gaming, anyone know a good place to start
full flint
Parts
marsh linden
Yeah
smoky flame
what sort of games do you plan to play? Budget?
full flint
What’s your budget
marsh linden
Budget wise i’m looking to start small so maybe like 500 to 600? Not looking to play anything crazy, just testing the waters with games like CSGO, Minecraft, Rocket League, etc
full flint
Oof
ruby spear
Buy a Series X in November/December. It will play games way beyond what a $500 PC can manage.
smoky flame
500-600 would be quite a challenge, even going the used route I think at this time. The games you mentioned aren't demanding
full flint
I honestly don’t thing it’s possible right now
Pc parts are inflated in price
Your PC is going to be trash for 600 currently
marsh linden
So would it be best to hold out until after this whole quarantine thing?
full flint
Yep
smoky flame
I'd say longer than that. The impact could extend for weeks, months or even years after all this is over
marsh linden
That’s very true. Once this is all said and done though, for somebody lacking in computer knowledge like myself would it be best to start with a pre built pc or use the time to study up and build one myself?
smoky flame
better to build it yourself and save some money
marsh linden
If I’m truly going to hold out until after quarantine, I’ll also have the time to save up and raise my budget
smoky flame
prebuilds tend to cheap out on some components to drive costs down. Building it yourself may cost more but you have the freedom to pick exactly the components you want and don't have to pay any labour costs if you were to go the semi custom route where you can pick parts (still somewhat limited) then have someone else build it
marsh linden
Good price point for parts then? I’m guessing by the reactions I got 500-600 isn’t necessarily good at all, so it’d be cool to know what I should save up for
The games I wanna play aren’t too demanding so I don’t need anything crazy, I’m fine with anything low to mid end, it’s just gotta work really
smoky flame
for the games you plan to play I'd say a budget of around 1000 would do. It is a lot and I'm not even aware of what currency we are talking, that could be a factor too
marsh linden
American currency
smoky flame
ahh, I should have just assumed we were talking USD but you never know. If we were talk CAD, AUSD or NZD then I don't think 1000 would have gone far
modest gulch
@full flint Hey, if you're calling out the needs of resolution as to not having anti-alias, I was just keeping the marketing hype out of it.
And sticking to a 16:9 aspect ratio.
marsh linden
CAD isn’t too far off from the American dollar now a days is it?
full flint
it's pretty much the same as it's always been
marsh linden
Ahhhhh
smoky flame
apparently 1 USD = 1.41 CAD. That $1000 USD build I recommend you could set back some Canadian $1410 CAD
just makes everything a little more awkward
marsh linden
True true
Guess only thing for me to do is get my studying in then for this whole thing
Honestly though, something that I can build upon and upgrade as I learn would be nice once this is all over being i’ve always been a better hands on learner
smoky flame
that is the joys of PC gaming really. Doing something that costs around 500-600 now would imo be a waste of money when you later end up adding the same or more and over time some parts will work out more expensive when considering upgrades over others. Take CPUs for example. Eventually AMD and Intel release new CPUs that require whole new motherboards, maybe even new RAM too. That sort of upgrade could very easily set you back more than $600
smoky flame
hah, that's pretty neat. Shame I don't use Xbox Game Bar. With the exception of game launcher and RTSS overlays I tend to disable or turn off other overlays. Doesn't XGB need the game to be running in windowed mode? I highly favour fullscreen/exclusive fullscreen
full flint
no?
smoky flame
just tried it with The Division 2 and game bar only showed in windowed mode
livid brook
nope dont even need a game running, just windows key+g
lament cipher
the web browser thing is the more interesting part to me since it means being able to look stuff up without context switching out of fullscreen mode
Steam already has something for that, though I think it requires launching the game through Steam
torpid heath
yup
i like game bar, not as snappy/fast as steam overlay, but overall its pretty good
full flint
that could be useful for some things
GTC in 5 hours
these were all posted when the announcement dropped
full flint
didnt see them straight away
anyway are any of you actually watching GTC?
I'll pass on it...
trim zinc
most of the presentation will be about workstation cards
so would make more sense to watch or read a summary after it’s over
full flint
yup
I think nvidia hopper is actually the 3000 series
and ampere is like tesla
but we will see
trim zinc
every rumor seems to say ampere is both
trim zinc
ampere is supposed to be a pretty big jump itself
but every new architecture gets hyped
so it’s best to just wait for benchmarking
full flint
yeah
my youtube feed will be full of vids anyway
also I have never pre-ordered hardware but depending on the prices of 3000 series and performance will determine where the market will end up, assuming there isn't another monopoly again
pure obsidian
Fortnite
ruby spear
Month
amber sparrow
full flint
autumn sluice
So if I need a webcam what should I be looking for and watching out for?
heavy marsh
identify your use case
and buy one for it. there's not a TON of differences in them, but depends on what you need
hot seal
Nvidia tech conference starts in 10mins if anyone wanna watch. GTC keynote
dont know if you need to register to watch though
torpid heath
I might try
hot seal
ah you can watch from youtube channel
torpid heath
Cool cool cool
autumn sluice
That's the plan
full flint
Holy hell
The A100 accelerator is disgusting
thats the blog post think it has everything there
full flint
about that UE5 demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2_RkfStSk
this is 5 years ago...
autumn sluice
Can someone eli5 what this all means
full flint
dark where are you
devout remnant
@full flint nice, I like ASUS boards!
trim zinc
zen 3 will be better 
full flint
I have my parts list laid out. My final decision won’t be till launch when I can take a week to analyze bench and thermal results
Right now there’s not much available other than it’s powerful and it’s hot as hell
Like
Too hot
I’m getting a 360mm aio as well if I get it
smoky flame
I find the whole AIO coolers silly and that is coming from someone with a 240mm cooler and a 6700K. I could have saved a bit of money simply going with an air cooler
jolly quarry
@full flint what
full flint
@jolly quarry what. :3
quasi storm
@full flint 
full flint
trim zinc
what what
full flint
about that UE5 demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2_RkfStSk
this is 5 years ago...
@full flint this inherently looks so much worse
for one, it relies on normal maps, which indeed the UE5 demo showcased as not being needed or used
it also displays polycount limits
...which UE5 also removes the need for
it has Gamma Diffuse issues since it's running on UE4, and Antialiasing Smear because once again...UE4
and no, those are not things you can change with the source code either, as they're directly tied into the UE renderer
plucky marsh
Dynamic shadows still aren't perfect in UE5 but it's a step in the right direction
full flint
they're pretty darn close
even CryEngine's doesn't compare, but CE6 is still in the development phase as well
plucky marsh
They're better...
full flint
they're near accurate
plucky marsh
dynamic lighting I'm on about, not environmental
full flint
yeah. visual polarization
plucky marsh
UE engine has always been buggy with a light source in front of a character
The shadow will usually point towards the light source rather than away from it
I spotted it in the UE5 demo too
full flint
yeah. it was a bit too low-res to really see how well it handles gamma as well
it's using ray-marching and rasterization in that demo though
so we haven't seen ray-tracing capabilities on it yet
I imagine that'd be something they let a 3rd party like AMD or NVIDIA display on their own channel
plucky marsh
full flint
yeah
plucky marsh
This is just an example of what I mean, the light source is directly in-front of the character.
full flint
I'll chalk that up to rasterization
full flint
not when path-traced lighting
but so little things reliably run path-traced lighting it's negligible to discuss
plucky marsh
Sorry, I mean just from dynamic shadows/lighting
plucky marsh
Right, and that looks beautiful
full flint
which also allows light to occasionally bleed through solid geometry on vertices
plucky marsh
In UE5 I assume it'll be the same.
full flint
light when a character or object in a room has a reflection from the setting sun outside....through a solid wall
probably. that's just a limitation with raster
plucky marsh
It's definitely looking good though
full flint
oh was referring to adhd chief comment
nvm
autumn sluice
Yea I really don't get what that Nvidia article means for me as a consumer
full flint
GPUs will be extremely insane for the consumer cards as well, since it uses the same architecture
devout remnant
@autumn sluice just means a big leap in performance or this coming gen.
The cards will be very good.
I’m excited because I need an upgrade.
My games are virtually 100% GPU bound.
full flint
What gpu do you currently have?
I mean
even a 1080Ti is a bottleneck
so it doesn't really matter
full flint
FFXV treats a 1080Ti like an intel integrated chip
flint aurora
Yup
full flint
and that launched before the 20 series came out
flint aurora
Is it badly optimised ?
flint aurora
So why does it run so badly?
full flint
they just have 4-8k textures everywhere and NVIDIA Gameworks stuffed into it
flint aurora
Ohh
flint aurora
I was gonna say it doesn't look absolutely brilliant or anything
It looks great but not groundbreaking good sorta thing
full flint
oh it does. in the right places
they didn't try to shove certain visuals where they don't belong
like a lot of other games do
flint aurora
Maybe images don't do it justice
flint aurora
Yeah lol
Wait a second
How is this game on consoles?
Or is it like GTA IV on PS3 where the graphics were lower than low
full flint
it depends on the console
man..even PC ultra's shadow distance isn't that far. simply can't handle it
flint aurora
Jeez
full flint
the game focuses on clarity that would normally be seen over landscapes in specific situations
instead of just adding fog and god rays everywhere for no reason
RDR2 has Fog everywhere
which kills its performance
flint aurora
Yeah
full flint
honestly, just install the demo of FFXV and hop into ansel and look at the textures on ultra, even if it doesn't run at 30-60
full flint
and like just..look at them. they're beautiful.
RDR2 is finicky
maybe high with some ultra tossed in
flint aurora
Probably yeah
full flint
it's hard to say as I don't own it on PC to do my own tests
flint aurora
Fair enough
flint aurora
70?
full flint
I was thinking more 60...
I mean the xbox one x version is around 30 from what I have seen but not actually played it yet
full flint
Some may find this useful Ubisoft Uplsy thing seems to lead here which is interesting
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcKpytGyWm9o6SHKuag4Rj-J_0yQxJ4PV
flint aurora
I was looking and I'd probably run it at 70 at max so I could get 80 with high mixed
full flint
lament breach
So, I'd be able to play fiveM if I download GTA from epic store?
lament breach
Thanks
dull hatch
y’all ready
surreal yacht
@full flint crazy that even works, guess the bandwidth isn't as crazy as I assumed
full flint
it is in beta atm
surreal yacht
to think occulus was selling their official link cable for like $60
full flint
there is a reddit thread don't know if I can link here
surreal yacht
I hope xbox will open up VR headsets for use on series x
ruby spear
A USB 3 link cable is going to be much better than a USB 2 cable either way. Selling that special high speed cable is fine, especially when the ability to use lower speed cables wasn't available at the time.
surreal yacht
ideally, a wireless streaming option like Virtual Desktop + Quest
ruby spear
Having seen what difference streaming VR over 2.4 and 5Ghz makes, I'd much rather use a high speed USB cable.
surreal yacht
Yeah, that's why I'm surprised to hear it's an option. And according to the article linked it seems to work just as well
full flint
this is the reddit post
there are some videos online too
https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/gjgcq0/oculus_link_usb_20_support_on_ptc_170/
surreal yacht
thanks
full flint
found this article today was posted yesterday
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-05-14-first-hdmi-2-1-gaming-monitor-announced-eve-spectrum
hot seal
ah was expecting a much higher number
smoky flame
seems the company behind that monitor is a kickstarter and has a record of scamming people
flint aurora
🤔
flint hinge
Xbox 360 Minecraft dm me Xbox user
full flint
@smoky flame
yeah they made the Eve V
flint aurora
I not Xbox user lol@flint hinge
flint hinge
@flint aurora oh wrong group srry
flint aurora
Lol np
smoky flame
I want to see those kinds of speeds some day. Paying for up to 930 mbps getting, if lucky 400 mbps and the stay fast guarantee sits at 455 mbps but I believe my issue is being on wifi. They really should have added in the small print: These speeds are only accessible on a wired connection and third party routers and devices with the latest and fastest wifi standard (wifi 6 - AX)
is it even possible for wifi to reach full gigabit?
full flint
onyx grove
does anyone know how to run on a mac book pro 2019? I did not know that GTA could not be run off of a Mac. My school FSU provided me with one and I got the GTA5 free thing but the op sys is for Windows. Is there a way to run windows off mac to be able to run GTA I know I can DL windows but will it play the game?
run windows on a MacBookPro*
worn condor
You could, but I doubt it will run well
You can install windows on a virtual machine, or use the bootcamp utility. The latter will run better, but I don't know how well it will.
onyx grove
So simply put use a windows PC for better results. Noting worse than lagging in the middle of a fire-fight
ruby spear
Bootcamp is your best option rather than a virtual machine, but yeah, that won't run well.
worn condor
If you have access to a PC, I would do it that way
but if you have no choice, use bootcamp
onyx grove
Did y'all see me use any wrong language? I got a message saying watch my language
worn condor
The bot auto deletes it, so I can't. Just make sure you didnt have a typo or something that would be filtered.
quasi storm
One of words in your message is filtered is why
onyx grove
what one they are all normal words or abbreviations. . but thx
onyx grove
Where? what did I say
ruby spear
We're obviously not going to repeat it.
onyx grove
Well if I don't know what whoever says is profanity then how can I not say it again? was it FSU that is abbreviation for my school
ruby spear
Just move on.
onyx grove
I look back over the conveersation and I said nothing'
ruby spear
It was not an abbreviation or typo, it was clearly spelled out profanity. Just be more aware of what you type in future.
quasi storm
Message was deleted, so you won't find it in chat
ruby spear
Jeez, my dog lets go of bones easier. Here...
onyx grove
ah thx Rhinne. Yeah I remember that now won't happen again.
wow chat has more rules tha FB lol gotta get use to it
onyx grove
You sure do have attitude with your little power. I'm not use to ppl beiing so rude. You can DM me instead of making me look like an idiot m
Mr. Rhinne
ruby spear
That wasn't aimed at you. It's a general summary of the rules. Chill.
onyx grove
ok
old loom
Getting 10th gen Intel so tempting......I don't wanna wait until later this year lol
But I might have to anyways
full flint
Gen 4 Ryzen will drop sometime soon anyway
I thinking it’s a bit too little for Intel at the moment
old loom
Yeah looking at the lineup.....pretty underwhelming
Ryzen 4 should best it
The 10700k looks nice, pretty much just a cheaper 9900k. But eh
Still a bit annoyed that AMD said nope to Ryzen 4 on 400 series motherboards.....either way I'm having to get a new motherboard 
full flint
they're going to be PCIe4 and DDR5 ready I'd imagine
old loom
Hopefully they are equipped to use the next gen nvme ssds xbox series x will use
That will be a game changer
I know there are some faster nvmes coming, just don't know when and if they're gonna match series x speed
full flint
those are xbox proprietary
the only thing would be a faster m.2 or new standard entirely
old loom
oh, hmmm.....makes me worried if PC cant reach those speeds anytime soon
not even talking PS5 SSD speeds, that's a whole another level
trim zinc
cerny said eventually pc ssd's will reach the speeds to be compatible with ps5
so they're coming just not yet
old loom
"eventually" could be a long time. shudder I can already imagine having a bunch of stupid solutions to this on PC
PCs could literally be the one holding back consoles now. Could see more games just not coming to PC......probably won't happen until 2021-2022 or so anyways
strong walrus
Anyone want to play Roblox
trim zinc
well PCs have to do more than just game, so you can't build an SSD that is only optimized for gaming the way sony and microsoft can
full flint
That’s also why PCs leverage horsepower to game
They have to do a lot more than something entirely optimized around it
old loom
true enough
but makes me even more likely to buy a Series X
was thinking about it anyways. MMOs on PC, rest on Xbox on 4k TV
or 4k monitor idk. I dont want to have to get a new GPU
devout remnant
@trim zinc PCs already have 5GB/s storage speeds and Samsung announced 6.5GB/s
smoky flame
I'll wait to see how well the new consoles perform when they actually launch. Used to fall for all the hype and marketing but over the years I have grown pretty wise to it all. Would be great if both consoles really do turn out great but "holiday 2020" is still some way out
full flint
smoky flame
speaking of the next update. Heard it has a neat feature or two for gamers and other GPU power users
full flint
uhhh
no clue about that
since the only thing GPU-related is thermals displaying in task-manager
torpid heath
I heard it'll be a decently big update
torpid heath
I haven't really read up on it tho
smoky flame
there's meant to be some GPU Scheduling option. Read up a bit about it
torpid heath
What's that do
smoky flame
was made aware of it in another server. I'm going to have to try and dig out the post
full flint
I mean...it may improve in some areas
but it's not going to effectively be a game changer
smoky flame
turning it off is said to impact performance apparently
got a feeling it will show true use with newer GPUs. Think it required GPUs with shader model 6.5 or newer
full flint
I really only care about the drive indexing improvements
because HDD bog down as is, so the improvements will be welcome
smoky flame
ahh yeah, I saw something on that too but didn't really think it would be that big a deal
full flint
it's probably the single most significant feature in the update imo
since it changes how standard hard drives are indexed
if a single drive spins to max, it will bring the entire system to a crawl
aaaaaa
I find it funny how G: and H: are slotted inversely
smoky flame
I guess this doesn't impact SSDs? Would suck for HDD users with an SSD to have their hard drive spins to max causing the SSD to slow to a crawl
full flint
I mean, it'll likely effect SSDs as well, since it's indexing
but...it's not going to really make a difference there due to throughput
and yes. my C: is an SSD
my computer's trudging along right now
that being said, 2tb of data is enough to make any hard drive cry
Your CPU, Memory, and every other drive can be at 1% usage. But if even one of those extra drives is at 100% you’re gonna feel the speed of a celeron
smoky flame
I think I understand it and what I picture of it doesn't sound too good. Game downloads on a hard drive for example. Couldn't that trigger this 100% usage? If so it may prevent gamers from playing a game and downloading at the same time since that would impact performance and add further to the hard drive's usage if that game being play while downloading another one also happens to be on the same hard drive
full flint
No.
Most cases a simple download won’t RPM-max
Usually large transfers or caching will. Or a page file
smoky flame
I see, well that is good to know. Worst case scenario, my system slows to a crawl and I now know why that may be. Not going to be much fun for my brother though. His only storage is a hard drive and you mentioned page file. Might be interesting to see how his PC reacts to this indexing change
full flint
System drives will improve the most
But yeah. System drives on HDD are already basically running at Cap
smoky flame
is it a bad idea to go SSD only? System, page file and games all on one drive? Thinking of going with either a 2TB pcie 4 NVMe or 2TB SATA SSD. My current storage configuration is 250GB SSD (system) + 2TB HDD (games)
full flint
no. honestly it's a better idea than a hybrid system
the ONLY benefit to HDD are their sheer volume
4-8tb are only like $200-300 for a nicer-end Internal HDD
smoky flame
cool, will be looking into upgrading my storage along with my first major upgrade
full flint
micron or samsung
for boot drive
intel's ok as well, but idk much about their longevity
smoky flame
think I will wait to see what Zen3 brings meaning it gives me plenty of time to save up, potentially go for something better than I originally planned for. Was going to go 3600 + B550
full flint
also, be careful with going too large for a boot drive
the more you stuff into it, the more it will need to index
but if you get a higher end SSD or an M.2/NVME you should be fine regardless
since windows only allows for 2tb on boot drive
everything else is partitioned
smoky flame
nice, I'll be sure to keep a note of the stuff you said. What about SLC, MLC etc. My main use being gaming will any of that impact me at all?
flint aurora
@worn condor well hello
smoky flame
hah thanks again
btw, looked a the date that video was uploaded and that was around the time I built my PC 😮
Crucial are Micron SSDs right? MX200 250GB is what I have so I may already have picked a pretty good SSD, just a shame the capacity isn't big at all 😅
smoky flame
yeah, that would be the SATA SSD I go for, if going SATA that is
what I remember it tends to cost around £200 but with things the way they are just now I won't be surprised to see that price rise a bit or those SSDs completely out of stock
flint aurora
jeez they are expensive
smoky flame
a 2tb Samsung SATA SSD costs quite a bit more
full flint
yes, because samsung's are faster
Micron = Longevity
Samsung = Speed
Intel = Intel Tax
Hynix = Failure
flint aurora
200 usd is quite a lot tho
full flint
objectively it's a lot of money. for computer components that's not a lot, nor anywhere near a lot
trim zinc
it's a lot for that specific part segment
autumn sluice
So what does all this new Nvidia stuff mean for me and my 1650s
full flint
that you should continue following my advice and save up
since that'll be most of our advice
it will be considered low end soon
or entry level
or is it already?
devout remnant
I wonder the prices on the next gen cards.
I mean, Nvidia did a Smartphone and doubled prices
Imagine they will stay steady now for a few years.
flint aurora
Not sure
trim zinc
need big navi and rdna 2 to force competition and lower prices
full flint
if the 30 series drops and is in the projected rumors' range. a 1650S will be a baseline
autumn sluice
I see. Well guess I'll shove a cerb check in my savings
autumn sluice
Well unless Nvidia drops the ball through the glass floor for a few years and amd has a massive breakthrough software wise
full flint
no
Gameworks alone will keep their prices high
as will their drivers and low TDP
AMD will never be able to bring NVIDIA's prices down
unless they somehow create better software, which isn't feasible
autumn sluice
I mean it is. It's just highly improbable
autumn sluice
Ah
full flint
NVIDIA focuses on GPU alone, and their software R&D is the size of AMD's totality
AMD would have to quadruple in size in order to fully surpass NVIDIA in GPU market share
trim zinc
seems like a weird argument to make given what AMD has forced intel to do with prices
Intel has literally 4 times the market cap of AMD
250 billion vs 60 billion
full flint
speaking of nvidia
this and a lawsuit...
https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/james-dawson/atos-launch-europes-first-supercomputer-equipped-with-nvidia-a100/
full flint
old loom
wait what Intel 10th doesn't have PCI 4.0?
lol what a fail. Sticking with Zen 3 then
I know it doesn't matter for GPUs yet, but pci 4 nvmes exist
old loom
also newegg completely out of stock of x470 motherboards lol wtf
old loom
think it's good idea to buy 3700x now instead of waiting on 4000 series?
Kind of worried 4000 series will be hard to obtain at launch, but I'm used to that with Intel. Idk if AMD suffers from that, too.
autumn sluice
What did u expect with China being out of commission for so long
wheat ginkgo
Hey everyone... Quick question. I want to upgrade to PC over Next Gen console but I want to continue to run my xbox madden league. Will I be able to play Madden on an Xbox One X against users with the next gen xbox?
Thanks in advance
smoky flame
if you are going for the 3700X I'd recommend you wait until June for B550 motherboards to launch, Stralgarr. Otherwise Zen3 (Ryzen 4000) has no confirmed launch date as yet but rumours do point to a possible September launch
old loom
Yeah I'm gonna wait I think. Either for B550 or if they release a x670
@wheat ginkgo don't think anyone but EA will know that. It's up to them. Now I'm assuming it'll be based on if you're playing the same Madden game, but not 100%
The next Madden will be on Xbox One and Series X......so I'd imagine that shouldn't be a problem. Just need EA to confirm that themselves
old loom
full flint
@full flint did you know the Conquer 2 case released?
Yeah I saw it the day they launched, it’s terrible
ye
acoustic socket
H
tribal pilot
I cant believe grad theft auto 5 is free on epic games store. I was just about to buy it a couple days ago lol. Wondering how good it will look on pc.
tribal pilot
Anybody play that mechwarrior 5 game? What did you think of it?
flint aurora
It looks pretty good
If you what any help with it btw and me I've been playing it for ages.
Also if you have a beefy pc I recommend NVR and PRSA
tribal pilot
Ill give it a download and check it out. I played mechwarrrior 2 way back in the day wonder how much it has changed
flint aurora
Oh sorry I was talking about GTA 5 sorry
old loom
Why is there a x570 motherboard shortage going on wtf. Only place you can get one is Ebay for way more than its worth
full flint
There’s a part shortage for all parts
Welcome to coronavirus
Everything is sold out, and everything that isn’t sold out is over inflated
heavy marsh
supply and demand
tall geyser
hey i have an asrock amd 5700 rx xt gpu, with a 450mac mobo... is there any way to universally force any app regardless if its a game or an prductive app. to be in windowed.
theres a game i want to try https://store.steampowered.com/app/327650/Mays_Mysteries_The_Secret_of_Dragonville/
and everyti8me i try to load it, it forces itself in a ful screen mode, which only loads a black screen and music in the background
Steam
autumn sluice
@old loom gotta realize quite a few businesses gave their employees a fat check to get remote working available to them. A lot of ppl either upgraded their setups or built brand new ones. Now might be a good time to look for used like new parts
plucky marsh
That actually sent a shiver down me lol
At least the F keys are still in the right place
And the numbers
full flint
Chaotic Neutral
full flint
Speaking of keyboards, my ducky one 2 mini is acting funky, so I have a ducky one 2 mini v2 mecha on the way
So happy to finally have metal frame board
full flint
Several keys were double and triple pressing
I don’t feel like repairing it because of the newer model + the mecha version
flint aurora
Fair enough
full flint
I thought that was fake but when I searched a bit I found they did actually "showed" the effect of hairworks on 47 lol
smoky flame
just got a 30GB update on Modern Warfare... Hope Battle.net doesn't mess this up lol
full flint
CoD updates are true internet killer
I missed the times when patches were like few megs and fixed massive amount of bugs
smoky flame
same
oh wow, I must be downloading at a good time (8:05am UK) getting over 30 MB/s still some way off the speeds I should be getting but unfortunately for now there is no real fix for that
smoky flame
download finished. That wasn't too bad. Hope some day soon (preferably this year) I can see my broadband's full speed in action. All 930 mbps 😮
tribal pilot
Anybody play monster hunter on pc? How are the graphics on it?
smoky flame
I used to play it. Graphics on it are pretty good. I play at maxed settings. Would recommend you stick to DirectX 11. Monster Hunter Worlds does have a DirectX 12 API option but using that tends to introduce crashes. Performance may improve though
tribal pilot
I have it on ps4 pro and played the base game was thinking of getting it on pc with the expansion and playing it on there.
Can you tell a major diffrence between directx 12 API and direct x 11 or does it just depend on the game. Also I saw some games have something called volcon or something another.
smoky flame
Most of the differences between DirectX 11 and DirectX 12 aren't really that noticeable. You would need to compare them side by side with some hardware and frame rate/frame time monitoring software but features like ray tracing are a DirectX 12 and Vulkan only feature.
Vulkan is another API, not related to DirectX
tribal pilot
Thanks for the info
autumn sluice
Vulkan is something amd works with more
smoky flame
that last point I'm guessing no new motherboards for Zen3?
full flint
I just had the worst experience ever
I put in my new ram and somehow it reordered my boot devices without telling me, and I just was booting into windows error screens for the past hour trying to figure out what happened
I almost reinstalled windows for the billionth time
But hey new ram works
old loom
So to my understanding, AMD is only releasing their new top end cards this year?
No mid-low range yet?
azure flicker
Okay so I'm about to buy the mafia trilogy in steam. Like it has all three games in it but it won't let me buy it due to me not owning the classic mafia 2. I'm over here like what why mafia 2 definitive edition comes with it for free
Why you do this steam
Like what
worldly ravine
What keyboard do you guys use for gaming?
full flint
Ducky one 2 mini
flint aurora
Ducky one 2 TKL @worldly ravine
full flint
I had a ducky one rgb
seems like a pattern here 
flint aurora
That are brilliant keyboards
full flint
full flint
full flint
Lol they’re a little late
Alienware and asus both announced months ago
Rog swift 360 being the other one
ruby spear
They only care about Denuvo in the early days after release any way. Once the bulk of sales are done and the game is already on the seven seas, it serves no purpose.
full flint
It was kinda bad considering the Bethesda launcher version had no drm at all
So that move was just extra low-blow
But are you surprised
That Bethesda added it or iD got it removed? The answer to both is “No”
Also while I have you
https://imgur.com/gallery/qqbOrWn saw this beautiful album today
So many cursed images
How to increase phone connection
You think that ones bad
Also those ram sticks are getting RMAd
Good times
Yours?
Ye
Nonstop system crashes
What make?
Ran the windows memory diagnostic and there’s a hardware issue. I tried lowering frequency, using various common presets, applying extra voltage, the whole 9 yards
Gskill trident z royal
4000mhz c18
I meant silicon
Not brand lol
Samsung lol
Odd
I know. I just was like ok RMA time, I’m done messing with this
autumn sluice
I mean tbf I broke the small tiny antenna in one of my old Samsung phones and I just uses a piece of conductive metal with some duct tape and I got twice the WiFi range after till it died
smoky flame
id should maybe look at adding easyanticheat. Haven't heard the PC community "rip and tear" into that anti cheat solution anywhere near the level that Denuvo gets
full flint
That’s because none of the other solutions are as egregiously bad on performance as denuvo. Even the other kernel-level one that Valorant uses isn’t a huge hit to performance.
full flint
https://www.whathifi.com/news/gaming-headset-brand-razer-turns-its-hand-to-thx-certified-wireless-headphones
this means nothing imo
razer own thx...
ruby spear
High Fidelity
full flint
$200 though which is interesting
full flint
yes I have heard of that
full flint
guys, I am worried
will the new xbox be more powerful then my 700€ PC?
I need to make sure my games look better then filthy consoles
but with microsofts agressive pricing I might need to do something else
or lose all my money to paying to play online like a weirdo at the cost of good graphics.
ruby spear
Leave the 'filthy console' comments out, please. We don't do platform war silliness here.
ruby spear
Then build one
full flint
I have on
ruby spear
Cool, have fun with it then
full flint
I need to upgrade but with the theorys of the new xbox being €500 and having raytracing means I need upgrades
But an RTX 2080 TI is like 1000€
ruby spear
Looks like the "filthy console" will be the better option for you then.
full flint
I will ask nvidia on the reddit
smoky flame
At this point if you can wait Nvidia may launch new GPUs before the new consoles launch. Improvements to ray tracing performance to be expected but I don't think you need a 2080 Ti to rival an Xbox Series X. AMD and Nvidia hardware performance figures don't scale 1:1
ruby spear
Then dig deep and build better.
smoky flame
why though? Don't feel pressured into upgrading your PC over a bunch of console specs. They are impressive on paper but that's all just now. We have yet to really see either the PS5 or Series X in action properly
ruby spear
If you want to 'be better', make it happen.
full flint
RTX 2080TI, The competing GPU, is 1000€
keen knot
Got a deal on an RTX 2060 laptop c:
full flint
cool
keen knot
yeeeeeee
ruby spear
But if you're going to come in here with PC appetite, but calculator budget, you're not going to get far.
keen knot
How low is calculator budget?
full flint
look at it, over a thousand
and thats just the GPU
I will need to buy a new AMD CPU.
keen knot
I'd wait for EVGA B-stock 2080ti's tbh
full flint
I can't upgrade my RAM since this is a pre-built so stuck on 8GB.
keen knot
$800-900
full flint
Then a high power PSU.
I don't have that kinda money, nvidia needs to lower prices drasticly to compete with this console.
ruby spear
Good luck with that.
full flint
or
ruby spear
Top end PC gaming isn't a cheap hobby.
full flint
oh no
or, this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmWlNSaEiSk
I wish I could get microsoft to look at this
keen knot
Top end PC gaming isn't a cheap hobby.
exactly, enthusiasts will typically have enthusiast grade builds
for everyone else there's plenty of bang for buck options
smoky flame
that is part of the fun of pc gaming. Eventually you will have to upgrade. 5 years maximum I'd say most will get out of any hardware besides storage. Everything else is subject to being upgraded
keen knot
and if you're not part of the crowd that thinks all used parts are evil, more options
full flint
@keen knot there is bang for buck options at €500 but the new xbox might be that price and will have ray tracing
keen knot
Short term, consoles catch up on the power curve, and then fall right off once Ampere comes out
full flint
I can guarantee you that new NVIDIA 30XX series would be costly
keen knot
pretty standard cycle
full flint
or a 26XX Series
full flint
sorta like the 1660 TI I have
full flint
guys will an AMD RYZEN 3 3200G Bottle neck with an RTX 2060?
smoky flame
think so. Performance won't be ideal
full flint
ok
smoky flame
is that the CPU you use just now?
full flint
that cpu is low end
full flint
its £150 but I seen some sell it for less
£124 since scan charges £11.50 for delivery
full flint
all vendors have my bad
here is 1 example
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B550-TOMAHAWK
full flint
I hate these “records”
That have no real application in 99% of pc users
think ddr4 5000 is already a thing anyway
lament cipher
it's like those "jd power awards"... things that we would never know existed if marketing weren't so insistent on telling us about them
although at least I know what a world record is and don't need to question whether the criteria aren't meaningless
full flint
think the b550 announcement is more exciting though nobody has commented on it yet
like all the motherboards avaliable to see and view
lament cipher
is pci-e 4 the one that should match the PS5 SSD spec?
full flint
idk
sabrent has a 8TB one now
sick grail
So I have a question: I have lots and lots of games for my old Xbox 360 console that I would like to be able to play on my PC. But I don't want to buy the games a second time for my PC. Is there any way to use the Xbox Windows application, steam client, or any other way, to play the games I've already bought for my 360 on my PC?
full flint
no you will have to rebuy them
or use hdmi on the monitor from 360...
sick grail
dang
autumn sluice
Monitor arrived
heavy marsh
you too?
nice!
all my PC parts arrived yesterday, sans the SSD which arrived today
autumn sluice
@heavy marsh I got an MSI OPTIX 27" g27c4w from Canada computers for 380$ cdn after tax. I was looking for a particular monitor but they were back ordered for at least 3 months so I got the smaller 27
Bigger than I expected tbh
heavy marsh
awesome
tender nova
PS4
ruby spear
No this is for PC
white sequoia
I'm a loser but
Once I finish building my pc, I'm gonna overclock it and play minecraft with shaders on it.
ruby spear
Don't repost it
full flint
Chill,
ruby spear
We don't want platform wars here. And it's even less relevant in this channel.
autumn sluice
full flint
You kinda agresive
autumn sluice
hes not though? hes explaining something professionally to you
ruby spear
Well, maybe if people respected the rules more, I wouldn't need to enforce them as often.
autumn sluice
@white sequoia if you want raytracing i honestly suggest either waiting or buying a used rtx card till the new 3000 series cards come out. theres rumors that amd and nvidia will be releasing their new gpus in september.
and if rumors and technical interpretations are to be believed, this new series of cards could be a much cheaper but much more powerful and efficient than the 2000 series cards, especially in regards to raytracing
full flint
rumors also point to september if you can wait that long
flint aurora
@autumn sluice building pcs is fun
people say its weird i like it considering my age but who cares
autumn sluice
ive got ads out for building them for people
full flint
hasty kite
i just build my pc i bought a Radeon Vii just for dota and counter strike
now i feel stupid
stuck sandal
Hi, I'm just about to get my pc next week an alienware aurora r9 and am buying siege was wondering if anyone wants too start playing with me. Never had a pc so will be nooby only played t6 on xbox. Will buy games but want some new mates
calm sun
So I’m planning on switching to pc ever since I lost my xbox, can I get all my digitally bought xbox games onto my pc?
lusty oak
I don't think you can.
ruby spear
Only if they are Play Anywhere titles.
calm sun
How do I see if they’re plat anywhere titles?
ruby spear
Check the store page
calm sun
Thanks
full flint
Any games you’re able to play on PC will be under the “ready to install” section of the Microsoft store app
Don’t expect a whole lot
trim zinc
@hasty kite why would you get a radeon 7
hasty kite
honestly thought it would be a good card but now for the games a play its a bit op at 1440p cause i only play Moba's but now it wasn't @trim zinc worth the price
trim zinc
but you got it recently right?
trim zinc
weird
the radeon 7 has been obsolete for awhile
why didn’t you look at the 5700s or nvidia super models
hasty kite
thats where the stupid comes in
i had bought one today since the came back in stock and im gonna try to get a refund for this one from ebay
trim zinc
you bought another radeon 7?
hasty kite
yeah if i do ima save it for RDNA 2 but ima wait cause once the new cards come out the will have alot of bugs
hasty kite
yes yes and the 4000 series had to get the x570 to be future proof for amd
trim zinc
if you mean for zen 3, they went back on that
hasty kite
yeah i heard right when everyone panicked
trim zinc
having rdna 2 will be especially nice since devs will be making games with that architecture in mind for next gen consoles
hasty kite
yes yes
full flint
Realistically, you’re still gonna want a new board for Zen 3
Don’t expect good OCs off of a cheap 450
smoky flame
@hasty kite apologies for the ping but that is some of the craziest stuff I have heard. Radeon VII for MOBAs? With them being competitive games they won't take much to run. I'd bet even the 5600 XT would do fine with most, if not all MOBAs. As for CPU core usage I'm not sure but I'd like to think they don't use that much of the CPU so you could probably get away with something like the Ryzen 3 3300X.
hasty kite
That's what I thought too because running re3 with a 3300x And a 5600xt you'll do fine at the time I was just power hungry wanting the best performance for dota 2 but after researching and I was like I just wasted 700$ that could of gone into a more reasonable gpu that's already factory oc just enough for me to play the games reasonably I just wanted something for performance and streaming from time to time
@smoky flame
smoky flame
ahh when you add streaming into the mix then you may want to consider a CPU with more cores. Ryzen 5 3600 should do nicely. Ryzen 7 I'd only recommend if you were streaming much more demanding games and Ryzen 9 is a whole other beast
hasty kite
I have the ryzen 7 3800x and my 5700xt is coming on Monday
So I should be fine but I don't really play call of duty warzone just mobs of indie games so it should be chill
smoky flame
Nice system! Hope you have at least 16GB ram. Warzone/Modern Warfare is also considered a competitive game so again, it shouldn't take too much to run it 🙂
hasty kite
32GB
smoky flame
a bit excessive but hey, you are ready for when games begin to want more than 16GB ram 😄
hasty kite
Lmao at the time all I want was power even bought a 1000 power supply in all honesty it's over kill for one of the indie games in playing
smoky flame
yeah, you really don't need a 1000w power supply. 3800X, 32GB ram and a 5700 XT I think 650-750w would have done
yeah, I was right. Might even get away with 550w
full flint
gtx 1080ti though
this was his minecraft video
https://youtu.be/FQNdkHJzL40
o..k?
It's more about the fact that it was Watch_Dogs, that's the whole focus.
full flint
if the og watch dogs was like e3 2012 who knows what it would look like now
better than that video I linked
flint aurora
gtx 1080ti though
@full flint what do you mean?
full flint
that isnt a raytracing card
so fps will be bad
....
you do know that...
well for one
the 1070 and above are RTX enabled
hybrid ray-tracing is capable
second, Reshade uses software-based ray-tracing, just like SEUS for Minecraft
meaning any card can run it
it's screen-space based, meaning not full ray-tracing
plucky marsh
I didn't know I could do 'raytracing', that's news to me
Whatever the hybrid is called
full flint
I mean, it's still graphically intensive
and proper hybrid ray-tracing will eat performance for breakfast
plucky marsh
Yeah I probably dont want to try my laptop lol
full flint
but SSRT that's software based, like in Reshade, can be ran on most hardware
flint aurora
@full flint I doubt it's real ray tracing
It's probably just screen space reflections
full flint
think dark said that
full flint
anyway not bad for £406
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-3900X-Processor-Cache/dp/B07SXMZLP9
Screen-space ray-tracing is still ray-tracing
just like hybrid-RT is still ray-tracing
flint aurora
Looked good tho
Yeah it's not as performance heavy if I remember correctly
Doesn't need the tensor cores
mellow fiber
Hello, everyone! I need some help, please!
My xbox 360 controller is switching to player 2, in the middle of the game, making me restart all the system, and loosing whatever I'm doing at that moment. It doesnt matter if I unplug it and plug it back, I can't get back to player 1. Does anyone have a clue of what is going on? I've already googled it, and I've made almost everything, to try to solve this problem. The last attempt was deleting the driver, take the controller out of USB, restart, plug it back, and search for new drivers, and it still made it back to player 2, in the middle of the game.
I'm using it on PC.
full flint
Maybe this issue is related to game?
full flint
@mellow fiber that’s definitely a game issue. Have you tried reinstalling or validating the game files?
mellow fiber
@mellow fiber that’s definitely a game issue. Have you tried reinstalling or validating the game files?
@full flint Yes, I did. Not solved.
full flint
do you have any driver updates or system updates?
trim zinc
@static storm
full flint
Corsair Harpoon RGB mouse is $19.97 and the MM300 Mousepad is $13.97 at walmart. Both are really good products, so it's a nice budget get if you're in need of new mouse and pad but strapped for cash
I saw the harpoon was $20 yesterday, I was slightly amazed
yeah
it was dropped to $20 at walmart a while back, sold out at the one here, they finally got more and now that's standard price
still $30 everywhere else
heavy marsh
i cosign the mm300
plucky marsh
Is it heavy? I need a nice heavy mouse
full flint
literally twice the size
no. that's actually one of its marketing points
it's extremely light
plucky marsh
Ah dang
full flint
heavy marsh
Woops wrong channel. Big fan
plucky marsh
I already have a Corsair which is good, just too light for me.
full flint
it's textured differently from my other mice I've had
so I'm getting used to that
it's iCUE-ready though
heavy marsh
And I got the drop on iCUE profiles if you need 'em.
full flint
the Razer Deathadder was a tossup, it was a dollar cheaper
and had a higher max-DPI
but I figured I planned to shift my main rig into Corsair anyway
iCue's awesome though
@heavy marsh have you played blair witch on you pc using icue?
heavy marsh
i have not
full flint
heavy marsh
that seems like it would scare me
full flint
the symbol shows up whenever spoiler stuff happens throughout
heavy marsh
I stick with Subtle is Beautiful. Version 3.0
full flint
full flint
tense, stressful moments, and corsair's like "yeah let's ENHANCE"
quartz cosmos
I'm just curious if anyone got gta v for free on epic games? Hope you did not miss that deal:(
lusty oak
Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.
ruby spear
I already owned it on Steam. I bought it at launch.
quartz cosmos
How's mp on it?
quartz cosmos
Yea I was afraid of that:( But I play on single player with a ragdoll mod
full flint
extremly light
laughs in model o
flint aurora
laughs in model 0-
dawn pawn
full flint
monopoly
that's the one that usually has a more advantageous aspect for those with a lot of time
agreed
keen knot
So I've been doing something stupid lately cus it's fun.
Trying to make Tekken 7 playable on Z8500 Atom
c:
full flint
yes! finally!
kindred finch
hello
meager trout
does having a game installed on and external effect the performance at all?
ruby spear
No
Unless it's a slower drive than your internal, then you may see slightly slower loading. Or faster if it's a better drive.
meager trout
how can i tell if its slower then my internal or not
ruby spear
Find out what internal drive you have and which external and Google them.
See what the speed of the drive is. Unless it's an SSD, it will be either 5400RPM or 7200RPM
But there's not a massive amount of difference
meager trout
ok thanks
flint aurora
The storage solution unless a very rare case can't affect the FPS
full flint
it just affects loading and some other things thats mostly it
trim zinc
yeah its more for loading and asset streaming
autumn sluice
On March 18, 2019 Nvidia announced that via a driver update in April 2019 they would enable DirectX Raytracing on the 16 series cards, together with certain cards in the 10 series, a feature reserved to the RTX series up to that point
uuuuuuuuuuuuh
only 1660/ti
bleh
deft panther
I need help, i was downloading halo mcc on pc and i opened the game before the games had downloaded. I changed that i want to only download campaigns. Then it errored and i started downloading the game again. Then it lagged and broke my xbox app, updated windows and the xbox app worked, but now when trying to download halo mcc it says that the space it will take from your harddrive is unknown. I would like to know if other people have gotten this bug. I don't want to start loading so i wont accidentally break the app
autumn sluice
sigh
u may have corrupted that section of space on your hd. go to the hard drives properties and see what it says
worldly ravine
What launcher do yall use on PC
lusty oak
I use many.
mellow charm
Hi
autumn sluice
Running afterburners overclock scanner and God it takes forever
full flint
think it chooses a lot of different settings
full flint
It has to take time and run a stability and performance test at each voltage interval
That’s what they all do
So it takes a little bit
autumn sluice
yea now im getting vexxed cause voltage control wont let me use it even after checking the box
limber flicker
stable dust
Not bad!
full flint
when you get bored and decide to go on pcpp for a bit
trim zinc
I find it funny that you're skimping on the ssd and cpu despite going way overboard elsewhere
limber flicker
skimping on the cpu?
lol nah
i could add way more storage
but i absoluely dont feel like upgrading a ryzen 9
flint aurora
Its actually not a huge difference @full flint
full flint
He’s spending 2 grand on storage
He can spare an extra $20-40 to ensure he gets optimal system performance
And it can make a huge difference depending on the usage. Gaming isn’t everything.
flint aurora
I didn't actually look at the parts list , all I know is that c18 3600 is the same latency (or around) that of c16 3200
full flint
It’s not
smoky flame
that build is a monster. Sure hope it is seeing use beyond just gaming otherwise most of it is unnecessary and ridiculously overkill
ruby spear
I doubt it's seeing much use beyond a figment of their imagination 😄
smoky flame
at this point I look at most people trying to build a PC and I think. What a poor time to try and get into all of this. Between stock shortages and new hardware coming soon. People buying now may very well regret their purchases within 6 months
flint aurora
@full flint 3200 C16 - 10ns 3600 C18 - 10ns
But I see your point. If he has the money, do it
full flint
I’m not sure what formula you used, but that’s incorrect
18 will have a latency of 10ns while 16 will have 8.8__8__
This is absolute latency for memory controller access on first word
trim zinc
@limber flicker yeah skimping on CPU. if you're trying to go overboard than the 3950X or even the 10900K would be better. Also should at least be getting nvme storage
full flint
for an $8000 setup you can do way way better
then again that gpu is over a 1/4 of the budget
I like how everything is super expensive and fancy
And then there’s just a crap mobo
I'm sorry..what
$600 for stereo speakers?
It’s razor doe
that's an insane markup even for razer
wait.
we're mix-matching corsair and razer
bad
swap those peripherals for another brand, or swap to razer headset
at that price id be considering studio monitors for speakers
or similar
never mix-match corsair and razer
you'll get at least one bsod a day
wait. that's a mid tower case
that's wayyyy too small for that titan
lusty oak
Wait, you get BSOD from using a Razer keyboard and a Corsair headset?
lusty oak
Because I have a Razer keyboard and a Corsair headset.
full flint
do you have both synapse and icue installed and running concurrently
lusty oak
I don't know what icue is.
full flint
that answers that
So no
icue's corsair's software suite for managing your devices and monitoring the system
lusty oak
I don't think my headset uses that.
full flint
synapse is razer's
if it's not RGB then it doesn't...or you're using synapse to power it
lusty oak
I have like the base model Corsair headset.
full flint
icue was one of the reasons I switched to something else
or was it the one before that
usually its the inverse
most people swap to corsair over razer or logitech because of iCue
I got my pc 2 days before icue was announced
so then how was it the reason you switched to something else
games would white screen idk what the issue was at first
then when i used a dell oem keyboard and cheap mouse it worked fine
lusty oak
I have the Corsair HS35 Carbon headset.
lusty oak
So I'm good, right?
full flint
yes
icue is for rgb I believe
no, and yes
it handles the RGB, but it also handles software profiles, DPI, hooks, system monitoring
I probably will have a ryzen pc down the line but atm I am sticking with series x...
more of a convienence thing tbh
unless things change
If you have an aio, you control everything via icue
Nothing can be altered hardware side
do you use corsair too or something else
boi bleeds corsair
lusty oak
Jacob Taylor, lol.
full flint
k95 platinum too?
I use their aios
That’s it
I don’t even use the provided fans for the aio. Most of corisairs products are overpriced for their value, or just an average performing product
But the adjustable speed pumps they use are great
oh
I use the ducky one 2 mini mecha and a model O minus
The model O is getting replaced with the new finalmouse, whenever that rolls around
will be pricey right?
I got mine for £44 or £45
yeah £44.97
Nah that’s cheap for a quality mouse
Which explains why it’s not that great of quality
limber flicker
@trim zinc or I could do a thread ripper, definitely wanted to put in nvme but I only saw 500gb 1TV and 2Tb storage
trim zinc
threadripper wouldn't give you any extra gaming performance
full flint
cheap for quality mouse?
i got end of last year
december 2019
What is this build for
They’re not the greatest in terms of quality. Cable is loosely sleeved and the plastic quality is not the greatest. I’m already getting minor squeaking in my right click in certain grips
If you were to compare it to something like the finalmouse range or the g pro wireless, you’d see the difference
well there is also a huge difference in price
Exactly my point
You’re not gonna get a quality mouse for $60
I paid more for my rival 600
I think the only exception is probably the g502 hero.
But they used to be crazy expensive until they were mass produced
So it’s more of a supply demand thing than a quality thing
Steel series stuff is the same boat as Corsair