they may or may not change tho with modern players getting there hands on it
#classic
young latch
vocal halo
Dont shot talk my WAs bruh. :(
dense bronze
@light torrent Server list is not announced yet
vocal halo
Shit*
dense bronze
shot talk
frigid robin
ducking phones
vocal halo
frigid robin
vocal halo
light torrent
Alright thx
main marsh
still no beta cuz not murican
hearty ermine
dense bronze
They aren't really inviting more people Tianton
dense bronze
A new wave? where did you hear that
main marsh
when they changed lvl cap to 40
dense bronze
I haven't heard anything of such
Nor have I seen anyone saying they got in for a while
gray widget
Watch name of the 1st dude in 2s bracket 
gray widget
But not on beta 
gray widget
Get botted 
small pebble
I heard they’re going to invite way more people to the beta. My source is a dude who posted in this channel a few hours ago.
mental crystal
nice
main marsh
pls blizzard invite me, and break that bfa chains pls 🙏🏿
honest ridge
I cant wait to be at the bottom of the charts as a boomy 🌕
tacit tartan
just tell the healer you will innervate them only if they refuse to heal X person
so that person dies
and you can beat them on meters
honest ridge
Now those are the words of a true classic druid
pearl agate
I accept you as a young classic padawan
honest ridge
/kneel
honest ridge
Is Starfire always better than Wrath in classic? It seems like the case from watching vanilla videos
honest ridge
I was thinking of a build like this for PvP and PvE since I will be too poor to respec all the time
noble forge
why wouldnt you get moonkin form?
seems to be basically only reason to ever take a balance druid to raid
honest ridge
Because it seems expensive switching forms to cast non-balance spells. I wanted a more offensive version of the Moonglow build but still be able to off-heal.
35% of base mana according to wowhead
whole swan
PvP your just gonna run flags in travel form dont worry about anything else
honest ridge
Yeah probably haha. I was just theorycrafting a general build I could use for PvE and PvP
I will probably be left on the bench anyways so it doesnt matter
honest ridge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCvb8MwvsD4
this is nuts (notice how he doesn't use moonkin form lel)
noble forge
he has some setup with wild charge so prolly some kind of tryspec
honest ridge
Yeah there is a link showing their talents, its 29/11/11
Don't think I will be able to do that for a general build tho
It seems like a pain to have to respec between PvE and PvP all the time
tacit tartan
just level 2 chars
honest ridge
- Haha it's not like Druids are useful in pve *
honest ridge
noble forge
thats not really what I said
but a balance druid without moonkin and without healing talents is not useful in pve
you dont really do dmg, you dont have utility and you arent offhealing well
junior wagon
will anyone ever take a decked out boomie over a decked out mage though lol
feel like if i roll my spec for classic i'm fucked from day and level 1
noble forge
probably not
honest ridge
Yeah I'm okay with pure dps classes topping the charts but the gap between them and hybrid classes is pretty big lol
Oomkins would probably be a lot more viable if their mana costs weren't so high. Guess we gotta spam Rank 1 Starfire lel
noble forge
literally no threat reduction
is an issue too but well big problem is just straight up damage
tacit tartan
cat form cower while you melee for mana
noble forge
🤔
honest ridge
Can't get threat if you don't do damage 
I never played vanilla but from what I've heard, they ran out of mana early into fights which is why they did so little damage
Their initial dps isn't that bad
noble forge
quite sure they just did little dmg.
honest ridge
Probably
tacit tartan
you could do ok up front with lucky crits
honest ridge
I guess we will find out in a few months
honest ridge
Was enh any good for PvE? Cdew makes them look pretty dang good
tacit tartan
same boat as any other hybrid
honest ridge
so pure dps > hybrids > balance druid
tacit tartan
balance wasn't that bad, not an entire category below other hybrids
honest ridge
So it IS viable 
noble forge
no
tacit tartan
it's all viable depending on how you feel about getting carried
junior wagon
personally i don't give a fuck about the meters in classic as long as I get to play boomie
but that's the issue, i don't know if i'll even be invited for anything in pugs
honest ridge
Thats where I'm at as well.
tacit tartan
well you wanna get in a guild and do stuff with them anyways
honest ridge
Even in a guild I'm scared they won't let us play lol
junior wagon
i think my guild will let anyone play anything in classic thankfully
i guess you're right, i won't be fucked but i'm thinking of all the poor guildless classic boomies
unwanted and forgotten
noble forge
quite sure you can find groups in a guild
if you annoy them as much as possible
obviously would be a lot easier as either resto or bear
cause dps are generally more common
tacit tartan
it's not like there's that much group content to run anyways
noble forge
I would rather say
tacit tartan
there's no m+, no true endgame dungeons
junior wagon
you guys reckon they'll release new classic content post-naxx, or will they continue into tbc?
probably too early to even guess
noble forge
🤷
way too early
I doubt blizzard knows it yet
its a big gamble how sucesful it will turn out too
junior wagon
yea
honest ridge
My opinion doesn't really matter lol but I'd rather have them attempt to make new content like OSRS does
tacit tartan
it's basically a new fork
honest ridge
They started making new classic for OSRS
polar vine
Osrs is better than real runescape
honest ridge
content*
polar vine
Osrs only content is actually engaging
noble forge
okay
polar vine
Its all player voted
noble forge
so they basically make post endgame content
polar vine
Osrs has had some endgames updates, like new "best boss"
honest ridge
The reason why I'd be against TBC is because it would split the classic community in half
polar vine
No new skills, no map updates( except for boss zone) and this relatively recent change
Osrs is actually
Not bad
tiny elm
I doubt they will ever go the update route with classic
polar vine
Ye
tiny elm
TBC possible, but not some new content in vanilla
polar vine
They literally have to release new content lmfao
tiny elm
they already said that TBC and Wrath are possible
noble forge
ye
tiny elm
but where do you stop?
fluid sigil
there was content that was in the pipeline as well that was just not released
emerald dream ect
tiny elm
most of the content that was in the pipeline during vanilla was rolled out later
noble forge
well
tiny elm
like Karazhan
honest ridge
I'd rather have WoW 2.0 with the same sense of immersion that classic has but the modern touch of retail WoW. (easier said than done)
noble forge
vanilla was "supposed" to be like level 100?
fluid sigil
yea kz as well
polar vine
They gonna end up rolling out basically blizzard official servers for every expac
noble forge
and outland was supposed to be in vanilla
tiny elm
ED was never a thing
polar vine
Up to wod
polar vine
7.3.5 servers please
tiny elm
also, releasing cataclysm again would completely defeat the purpose of the whole classic thing
legion was 
the first expansion I came back to after leaving in early cata
junior wagon
well
polar vine
Yeah duh
tiny elm
I mean end of legion was good
polar vine
It was best expac
junior wagon
legion post 7.2 was good lol
tiny elm
ye
honest ridge
I liked Legion minus the legendary system, titanforging, and raidfinder
tiny elm
raidfinder is cata tho
honest ridge
Argus is probably my favourite fight
tiny elm
or MoP?
fluid sigil
I enjoyed all of legion
honest ridge
Yeah i mean if Legion didn't have those systems it would be the best exapc imo
tiny elm
I'm old, dementia is kicking in
fluid sigil
least mostly all of the specs didnt feel clunky
which is just a massive problem in bfa
honest ridge
MoP had good class design
junior wagon
i don't get why they have to redesign everything every expac
artifact weapons were wonderful
why trash them for this garbage
honest ridge
I'm not a fan of them raising the level cap every expansion. Numbers are too damn high for my small bird brain
Another good reason to "reset" with WoW 2.0
I miss artifact abilities but I didn't like the idea that everyone had a super powerful weapons
honest ridge
A level squish you mean?
fluid sigil
if they do the 2 expansions per 10 levels squish again
they could squish us to 60 for next expac
honest ridge
True. I just feel that they are better off with a fresh start lel
dense bronze
@tiny elm they also said that new content in vanilla after phase 6 is also possible
if that is what the community wants
and classic is a success
dense bronze
they said that in the interviews they did with streamers that got invited to Blizzard HQ
you can find the post on wowhead
tiny elm
reading wowhead quite often, didn't see the post you're talking about
dense bronze
ffs
honest ridge
I feel like the community is gonna be pretty torn on getting new content.
dense bronze
DenofGeek interview Brian Birmingham, Lead Software Engineer, and Patrick Dawson, Production Director.
Content beyond Phase 6 (Naxx) is a possibility, "anything is on the table. This (Classic) is a love letter to our fans.". Blizzard isn't planning on it right now, but if the community wants it, they can talk about that.
mental crystal
how altruistic of blizzard to do this thing that will make them lots of money 
dense bronze
If classic were to be a success it will be good for both blizzard and players 🤷
that also includes players of retail
noble forge
ye
and classic, very obviously is quite a big gamble
it may work, or may very well not work at all
dense bronze
Well the fact that they are doing it means they are confident enough in the gamble that they will at least break even
mental crystal
im not saying them making money is bad but i'm pretty sure the concept of a "love letter to the players" died a hell of a long time ago in blizzard's cold shrivelled corporate heart
💙
dense bronze
Maybe, maybe not
They seem to be fairly serious about not selling out so far, they could easily add a store and sell shit to classic if they wanted
That is what anyone who want to earn money would do, but someone somewhere have convinced someone that this might not be a good idea
low glade
You can never please everyone. Blizzard did listen to a player base when they added most of the QoL features like LFG etc. There were players in classic who complained about weapon skills and low drop rates and in particular people complained about not being able to see raid content. That's how we got to the state of BfA. Little by little the target audience for WoW changed
I believe there's enough market for both types of MMOs
Anyway my point was: listening to the players is not always a good thing
agile plume
So many players acting like scorned ex girlfriends. Everything will be okay. Everything is okay.
dense bronze
Well that is why Classic and retail can co-exist now Mishun
Dislike classic? well then maybe retail will be for you
Dislike retail? well then maybe classic will be for you
For everyone else there is solitaire
brittle thistle
Let’s just be happy you get both games with your sub
low glade
We agree on that. If you don't like the game, go play something else
brittle thistle
I’ll enjoy both games for different reasons 😃
low glade
I won't be happy until I get solitaire with the same subscription
dense bronze
There were card game addons back in the days, don't think any of them work any more (sadly) 🤷
mental crystal
Bejeweled on flight paths 
tacit tartan
bejeweled during trash pulls
polar vine
@dense bronze peggle flight path
Never 4get
Iirc something to do with blizzards licensing with in game content
They all got removed in a very short period
digital delta
Didn't they also have some slash command that would let you order pizza from Pizza Hut or Dominos? Or am I remembering Everquest?
main marsh
Eu beta wave when 
dense bronze
Are you a streamer or are you on the F&F list?
If the answer is no to both of these questions then there is no point in thinking you will ever get invited
gray widget
Get r1 in 2s for beta accès 
tiny elm
@dense bronze I didn’t stay excited for long, seems like Ion is against the idea of updating classic
tiny elm
Not sure I understand what you’re saying
To me it sounds they are saying they won’t be adding to or altering classic in any way
dense bronze
The context of the conversation is about changes to classic on release and during phases
he is saying that changing the game on classic release is out of the question
dense bronze
Ok so, to put this very simple: there are 6 phases of classic planned
These 6 phases are not to be touched in anyway, the content is as is, no changes will be made, no new content will be made
What happens AFTER phase 6 is over is not set in stone
tiny elm
dense bronze
Did that make it clear?
tiny elm
Don’t want to disappoint you, so I’ll just say yes
young latch
What about it don't you understand @tiny elm
dense bronze
Ok how about this: there will not be any changes for 2-3 years
What happens after that depends on what the community wants and/or the success of classic
dense bronze
What is it to agree/disagree on
tiny elm
Sorry Dyne, I didn’t wanna start this, let’s just wait and see, this is all speculation anyway
tiny elm
young latch
The will release classic as Is no changes and strive not to change it going forward
??????
tiny elm
I’m not sure you understood what we were talking about
tiny elm
Most likely because you didn’t see our initial exchange yesterday
young latch
I scrolled up
tiny elm
I don’t know what to tell you then
young latch
Classic Will be classic
tiny elm
It’s pretty obvious
young latch
After phase 6 who knows
How is that different from what I said
They will strive to keep it free of changes untill then
tiny elm
Sorry mate, don’t have time for this, have a good day!
young latch
I was waving good bye as you left bye @tiny elm
tiny elm
Thank god for local mute
covert rover
‘Addition of new content were out of the question’
Don’t make me ping you cyous 😦
I mean. It’s pretty clear <<
vocal halo
Shame. No one to play with 
covert rover
Am sad tragic Eu boye that is too acosial to stream
I’m ok with waiting. Mostly going to try to play it due to the guys I’ve played with since back then is talking about playing too
So just silliness
indigo crypt
^ Horde?
polar vine
@vocal halo
covert rover
Herb. Nah. Always been horde. Going for alliance this time round to see that side
Tbh I would pick horde if I could but my friends are traitors this time round
indigo crypt
sad. but true
polar vine
Although the old dwarf models are hot garbage
Ngl im pumped to level in old dun murogh. My first ever toon was a stupid gnome and thought the 1 zone was the entire wow experience.
Funny because all these years later i dont ever leave 1 zone to play 😂😂😂
covert rover
yeah.. i'll lvl on some pvp realm on alliance side apperently
so might even get to play with you
watch me be a useless feral
first time ever i'm going to lvl on alliance side
will be different
last time i tried i got lost at lvl 2 and never could find my way back
and gave up
<.<
main marsh
Ally
tiny elm
remote lance
Accurate
covert rover
Usually always have trade disabled due to clever things like this <.<
lusty gazelle
Yeah but it’s about the community
covert rover
One of the guys i'm going to play with is 100% adamant that vanilla is 100 times better than anything else, community got bad after that, vanilla was the golden pinacle of fun and all
i wonder if he will keep playing vanilla for long
tiny elm
He’s not wrong tho
still reef
remote lance
Lel
rigid glacier
polar vine
I mean
I had an insane amount of fun leveling in the barrens during bc
Because of the chat/community.
I met some people i still game with during that time.
The community was more vocal in game because 1. Fuck ventrilo. 2. Other chat things were not as popular/free (discord).
And then once they boosted leveling speeds it just was beating a dead horse.
@tiny elm he is wrong because the arena community is the most wholesome and generous community in wow
covert rover
lol
and yeah.. tbh i didn't talk that much in the channels back in vanilla
i were more reserved online then
pearl agate
Thinking Vanilla is 100x better than anything else is pretty 50 iq
polar vine
The only reason it was "better"
Is because it was new
So of course i was like HELL YEAH THIS GAME IS AWESOME i was just playing rayman like a fucking moron
pearl agate
Yeah, I love vanilla and even I think it was “ok”
knotty moth
anyone else going bear tank???
polar vine
@cold moth mage is big dick tho
lone bear
Feral kitty ftw
pearl agate
You aren’t winning anything as feral in classic
royal fossil
most innervates done
fierce herald
they make good flag carriers, and good DPS offtanks
lone bear
-will play feral irregardless of what peoples think-
fierce herald
^
lone bear
kitty is what i am and therefore shall be
fierce herald
they're just way more fun than everything else tbh
speaking of feral, anyone know if chance-on-hit procs work in forms? Found some stuff online about it but it seems a bit confused as to if this worked before 3.0 or not
lone bear
supposedly weapon enchants dont
but we can have omen of clarity if we spec it
part of the leveling spec til the level right after it
fierce herald
if built in procs work we can use that left claw shiz as an infinite MCP, but I kinda doubt it will work. Most super powerful feral changes seemed to come in Wrath
lone bear
weapon procs dont work with feral since we dont use the weapon at all
its a stat stick for feral only
fierce herald
oh right even in the game files its marked as "feral duel wield" or something right
well thats a big sad, still probably not gonna use MCP lol
lone bear
mcp?
fierce herald
pummlers
part of me is hoping there are other viable builds to the main deep feral we know atm, waiting to see if anyone builds a classic DPS simulator to try stuff out
lone bear
in raid supposedly we shall be restricted to powershifting +shred/bite
fierce herald
Like BIS stat values, str = 2.2 AP, agi = 1 AP but 1/20 crit, which is hard to calculate because it feeds into faster combo ramp for finishers and MOC
lone bear
dungeons we'd have more leeway
fierce herald
I think on the beta the dubuff limit is at like 12 or something right
fierce herald
like split the difference
whole swan
No point wasting time trying to find a warrior when you do a perfect job as feral
pearl agate
16
fierce herald
bear tank is pretty fun tbh, but I try to heal when I can as Its easier to be cat/heal hybrid
cant be switching to cat with aggro on you, not past 40 anyway
lone bear
Isnt it only 8 at the start of classic?
pearl agate
We aren’t playing the start of classic
fierce herald
it was 8 then 16 in the real thing, I was under the impression they just did 12 for beta but I dont remember
pearl agate
Yup
covert rover
the main reason to play feral is that there's no transmog in game
covert rover
indeed
whole swan
Plenty of reasons to play feral if you want, so many people act as if you are feral your cat only
covert rover
top tier game play.. can mock others for their look all the time
whole swan
You can and will tank, no point not using you for that
covert rover
well feral and feral is same spec
pearl agate
Unless they have two warriors
whole swan
Even if you have warriors
pearl agate
Then there is a point in not using you to tank
whole swan
You use bear for certain things, no reason not to
whole swan
You can just put the druid on offtanking shit works fine
lone bear
was mark of the wild and what of the wild?
fierce herald
depending on your raid comp you might get 1 debuff, or 2, lol
lone bear
will the group buff be in 1.12?
fierce herald
as in, for dps dots, not fire lol
pearl agate
Feral doesn’t use DPS dots though
whole swan
Yeah you wont get a debuff slot as feral
fierce herald
bleeds
whole swan
They do nothing though
pearl agate
Feral didn’t use bleeds
lone bear
did rake have ranks?
whole swan
ye
fierce herald
its not going to be as good as other classes, but RIP is going to do more damage than just biting, assuming there are spare slots, right
whole swan
But you have 40 people
There is easily another dot that beats out yours
Assumign you even have free slots
lone bear
rend, warlock dots, spriest if you have any
covert rover
heart of the wild btw
pearl agate
Even at 16 slots you had pure dps that weren’t allowed to use dots
covert rover
is the other one
and mark of the wild have 2 talents you can improve it with
which you really want others to do for you
whole swan
faerie fire, sunder also
lone bear
so mark and heart, whered gift come from?
whole swan
cant remember all of the debuffs that you want to keep up off top of my head
gift was the one that buffed everyone i think, was probably added in wow alot later i just remember the name and different icon
lone bear
faerie fire was not as prefered as sunder? sunder gave the tank threat
whole swan
You keep both on boss dont you?
lone bear
heart of the wild was the 20% self stat buffs?
pearl agate
Mind Flay
covert rover
ye 20% if you put 5 points into it
lone bear
warlock CoE
pearl agate
Ignite
lone bear
heh, fire mages were all slotted into as one
covert rover
i used to be CoE bot
lone bear
and the person who first put an ignite on would get ALL the dps from it, but also all the threat :3
lone bear
was mindflay always a debuff?
whole swan
If your having someone in raid use nightfall theres another
pearl agate
Yeah if you had Shadows they used SWP and Mind Flay
lone bear
someone yell at blizz to give feral dots scale
amusing we kitties had to use both str and agi
pearl agate
A lot of classes did
noble forge
That was true for a long time
pearl agate
I didn’t tank back then but I’m pretty sure Warriors did
noble forge
For basically every melee
whole swan
2x Thunderfury, crse of reck, faerie fire, sunder, annihilator, curse of elemnts, improfed scorch, ignite, curse of shadows, improved shadodw bolt, shadow weaving / swp , nightfall, gift of arthas , hunters mark
And your already at 16 with that and missing quite a few
but thats later on when people actually get TF and shit
lone bear
gift of arthas? whats that?
whole swan
Makes the boss take 8 more damage from every hit
noble forge
Doesnt Fireball also Take a Slot?
whole swan
that didnt even include judgements, trinkets, demo shouts and taunt. The procs from gear such as hunter T2
not sure
lone bear
sword from strath had a debuff 😛
watched a vid where a guy described he was happy to get one once but in raid his leader warned him off cause of it
whole swan
forget about alot of that shit for molten core and even bwl though thunderfury debuffs / fire mage stuff etc
whole swan
was just winters chill i think
covert rover
shan - they already said they will in no way change anything in vanilla for the first 6 steps of it
so no changes before t3 is out
lone bear
I knows 😛
pearl agate
As long as they wait to change anything until a TBC Classic is out I’m fine with it
novel jackal
Rogues deadly poison took one as well
noble forge
well thats something you could easily drop
noble forge
good way of getting yourself banned
low glade
@lone bear the party-wide version of the buffs came from dungeon random drops, like Tome of Intellect, Codex: Prayer of Fortitude etc
lone bear
I knew it was a learn from tome, didnt know when it was implemented
low glade
I can't remember when it was changed to be learned from the trainers but I believe that was TBC
It stayed that way at least till late vanilla
Naxx late
lone bear
least we get hour long buffs
low glade
Yep, just don't forget to buy 2 stacks of reagents before raids
low glade
Seeds and thornroots, ye
Has anyone confirmed the behavior of Wolfshead+Furor in the beta yet?
pearl agate
Lol that Addon is from private server people
Says all I need to know
Private server players are such a joke
lone bear
As taught in the Alamo's sermon, "Alamo teechs u 2 play DURID!":
DURIDS IS ALSO VERY STORNG 4 PVP! BARES AND CATS FITE, MOONKIN MAKES MOON STUFF, AND SUM DURIDS IS 4 HEEL!
Tehm whos bare durids, can B 4 tank
Seel for swim, is fast & dont breeth
Cheetuh can run fast and him is can run away frum trubul.
mostly uh moonkin is 4 a spam moonfare
Cat uis for fite
Durids is storng for bare or cat or seel or whatver and u dosent haf 2 heel if u dont liek heel
DURIDS IS 4 haf FUN TIME WIT FRENS
CAT IS 4 FITE!
good ol sermon of vanilla druids
polar vine
tiny elm
@lone bear
lone bear
aw come on :3 this is an ages old druid meme
pearl agate
It really is
covert rover
@low glade - dunno what you want to know
it directly says what it does in the original text
unless you think they wanna implement bugs it should work as always
they directly said they're not going to change things so there shouldn't be any news to it
low glade
I want to know if the effects stack or not
Some people claim that they used to stack in vanilla, other say that it only stacked during TBC
With powershifting being so crucial for cat dps, it's important to know how these effects work in Classic
tall belfry
was anyone planning on making an all druid guild in classic?
small sorrel
that sounds like more of a meme than a legitimate plan
brittle thistle
You needed to keep reagents in your bags for battle res and gift of the wild lol
covert rover
also for a cooking fire and such
tall belfry
just be interesting if a druid guild took down the classic raid bosses first. ;D
covert rover
that's not going to happen
both boomie and feral does significantly less dps than proper dps specs
bear isn't as good as warrorios for tanking
and resto isn't as good a healer as things like priest
brittle thistle
Getting enough good players to play Druid would be hard enough lol. And both Druid dps specs are highly gear dependent to be even mediocre
tall belfry
if everyone is tank viableish who needs to worry. just pass the boss around in the circle ;D
in any case. my plan is to see if i can get Classic Druid feral tank to work.
cold moth
Could maintank Patchwerk, no crushes/crits from him 😛
remote lance
You mean offtank. His regular melee shares some behavior as others
Unless you argue first hateful tank is the real mt I guess
lone bear
defense gear... hated having to get it in tbc. clefthoof armour was the only thing that had it?
solar kite
Dont forget resist gear too lol
lone bear
especially that cloak?
proper oracle
in general, not just one cloak lol
small sorrel
Classic raid bosses are pretty easy in the grand scheme of things
so sure, you can play sub optimal things and still down bosses
but that's just like trying to run with ankle weights on
just makes life easier/faster to play better classes
junior wagon
is there any sense in rolling anything other than resto if i want to do atleast some endgame classic pve content? i'll hopefully be in a guild so I guess i'll be fine
small sorrel
even a 40 druid raid could still clear molten core, they would just do it slower, like over 2 days rather than full clearing it on day one like a real raid would
@junior wagon there will be room for 1 boomkin in a raid to give the top casters extra crit in their party from Moonkin Aura
junior wagon
alright yolo
small sorrel
same for feral
1 to give the top melee leader of the pack
and probably at least 1 resto
given a 40 man raid size and the 16 debuff slot limit
I'd say there is a higher liklihood of having multiple resto druids
compared to multiples of the other specs
noble forge
I wonder how many people you actually need to clear MC at the start
with reasonable pre raid gear
small sorrel
you could probably do it with like 23 people to meet the checks
noble forge
you think that many?
noble forge
oh for sure
small sorrel
like if I really cared about efficiency and speed
noble forge
I woulda thought you'd need around 10ish
small sorrel
I would have the bare minimum amount of necessary classes that bring what the raid needs
noble forge
at least for most bosses
small sorrel
then stack all the vacant dps spots w/ warriors
noble forge
considering they actually did 3 man onyxia in vanilla
I have heard that theory before
with stacking warriors
I actually doubt that would be worth it
simply due to lacking loot
small sorrel
so 1 feral, 1 boomy, 1 mage, 3 warlocks, 1 hunter, 1 rogue, 1 shadow priest, enough resto shamans to give tranquil air and windfury to necessary parties, enough priests and resto druids for healing, and just pile on the warriors for the rest
tacit tartan
idk if you'd take boomy/feral if you're trying to be efficient
noble forge
no way shadow would be worth in that setup
tender scarab
have fun getting raid gear on all of those warriors
noble forge
ye same with those 2
small sorrel
I would take one of each
tacit tartan
lotp/moonkin aura is not worth a dps
small sorrel
just for the extra rebirths, extra innervates, extra tranqs, and most importantly the 3% crit buffs they give to each party
noble forge
to one party
tacit tartan
it's doubtful it'll be worth over a full dps
small sorrel
well
given that warriors would be fighting over loot
I can't have 15 warriors as dps
small sorrel
I have to have some variety
noble forge
or some rogues
small sorrel
for loot sake
tacit tartan
ya
small sorrel
you only need 3 warlocks
1 SM ruin, and 2 DS ruins
each to provide a different curse
small sorrel
shadows, elements, and recklessness
tender scarab
you'd want to bring a better balance of dps if you want to gear your raid at any sort of decent rate
tacit tartan
so bring a mage insteaad of balance if you're going for effectiveness
small sorrel
sure, I'd probably be fine w/ 3 or 4 mages since they scale decently into naxx
they're bad at MC because of the fire resist mobs/bosses
but that won't matter much in BWL AQ ZG and Naxx
but like it was mentioned earlier, I just need the bare minimum of class diversity to provide the necessary raid buffs/debuffs
everything beyond that is entirely optional
noble forge
quite sure frostmages do quite well too
small sorrel
arcane/frost or just frost? my vanilla knowledge is a bit lackluster on mages regarding that
small sorrel
right
tender scarab
couple of winter's chill bitches and arcane frost for rest
noble forge
and pretty sure a fully geared mage/rogue will outdps a pre raid geared warrior
tender scarab
which is what you'll have if you bring 15 dps warriors
tacit tartan
wdym. 4x MC splits
small sorrel
classic splits
omegalul
ideally you'd not want to have 15 warriors in MC
but rather
you wait till BWL or AQ and then poach them from other guilds
tender scarab
to sorta look at it another way, a feral dps druid only kinda wants 3 items from mc/ony, 2 of which are contested (quick strike ring+ony head). They might not do as much damage but they also don't really need anything until bwl. Makes them pretty good logistically
small sorrel
I mean if we're gonna play that route
nobody will need anything until BWL if they just pvp and farm HWL gear
but I get what you mean, it is loot efficient, I'm just not sold on bringing a 2nd feral when the first is barely useful as is
I'd rather just pile on more rogues
tender scarab
gotta be loot efficient if you want to get your raid geared fam or you're just accumulating shards on prog night
small sorrel
I can totally see some hardass raid leader telling his raid team if they want loot, to go get HWL
tender scarab
i can totally see him not having a raid team because he gets told to fuck off
small sorrel
Oh same, but I know there will be some assholes who will be brazen enough to suggest that.
tender scarab
good luck soloing AQ lmao
Even if i was dedicated enough to try raid at a high level in classic there's no way i'm spending 10 hours a day pvping to get a spot in bwl/aq clears
small sorrel
same
playing pvp at a slighter higher than comfortable pace will probably net you up to rank 10 if you're diligent and not dogshit
any higher than that and you'll have to start putting in overtime
noble forge
pre raid sure, but you do want everything in the actual raid so you can use gear which drops
tender scarab
yes and they aren't always good for your warriors so you get double cucked
young latch
dosent change anything
¯_(ツ)_/¯
your talking about optimal speed kills
then talking about gear distribution
tender scarab
gearing is already slow as fuck but what you're suggesting is making it glacial
young latch
and making sure no gear gets wasted
tender scarab
i'm not talking about optimal speed kills
young latch
they are different things
tender scarab
i'm talking about gearing the raid
noble forge
well ye speedkills is a different thing
tender scarab
all i'm saying is don't chuck out hybrids/less viable classes because you won't gear your raid at any sort of reasonable pace
even if your 15 warriors are running dungeons all day
its gonna take ages for them to get weapons with ~2-3 warriors per group competing for them
longer still for UBRS truestrike shoulder runs
etc etc
baron cape and all that good stuff
low glade
On the topic of 40m druid raids, Baron Geddon will be a huge wall. You need a class who can dispel magic to remove the mana burn debuff. The debuff is raidwide and recast every minute iirc
When it comes to having the "perfect" raid roster, don't forget you need to fit in the designated skinner (someone with 415 skill) and players with the crafting professions that drop patterns from the raid
low glade
The profession point should not be dismissed. A lot of classic enthusiastics seem to going for engineering
True but how do you suggest you'd be making that gold? Mission tables?
Professions were one of the most profitable ways of making gold in vanilla. If you were the only enchanter with the +healing gloves enchant you'd be rich
noble forge
im sure you can make a shitton of money off of flipping and if you wanted to, wouldnt be an issue to have the whole raid be engineering
low glade
If one guild decides to do it maybe, but if everyone decides to do the same there won't be enough gold for everyone
There's less "free gold" in the game and more ways you are required to spend it (like higher repair costs)
I'm just speculating ofc, we gotta see how that will turn out. I think it will be interesting to watch how the economy will play out with limited resources
vocal halo
The most expensive part of vanilla is crafting. So many good items require a bunch of mats.
It's a slow grind, but one lucky drop will save you a ton if time
brittle thistle
I’d like to try a different prof. Main has been an engineer since day one
LW / alch / ench... can’t decide
covert rover
Enchanting is a lot of effort to get up but also used to be what you could earn good at
solar kite
I made a bunch of gold using leatherworking/enchanting. But I had a toon to farm my mats on also.
brittle thistle
Yea I’m leaning toward LW simply because I’ve literally never done it in the years I’ve put in
leaden zodiac
LW is quite good in classic- Some of the best starting for raiding gear is there
remote lance
Just farm gravemoss until your head explodes
cold moth
Alch was good for heart of the mountain ❤
brittle thistle
Isn’t heart of the mountain enchanting?
whole swan
The trinket? Yeah its enchanting
lone bear
Everyone will see enchanting as money making so.... Go blacksmith to make the rods :3
polar vine
Make money by rolling rogue on pvp server and extort people for gold in order to leave them alone
brittle thistle
^ this won’t work
low glade
Alchemy stuff will be always in demand, especially Arcanite Bar transmutes with their 2 days cd
polar vine
Most shit will be in demand tbh
But also people gonna fsrm hard core
The available reaources will be cheap af within 6 months
pearl agate
Well yeah cause there will be no one playing to buy them
polar vine
😂😫😫
cold moth
Ack, yep, enchanting, not alch for the stone, grumble
Arcanite transmute cd... Guildmate started leveling a mage after we joked about ice block removing transmute cds
Took him a while to call bs on that
small sorrel
I'd recommend gathering professions on your way up to 60
crafting professions later
or if you're duo lvling with a buddy, one guy does mining/herb, the other does skinning/enchanting
cold moth
Blizz posted that you can only have characters of the same faction on pvp realms, so no, you could not extort people for gold to leave them alone because they won't have a character of the same faction as you
Unless you had some BB AH scheme going
small sorrel
Neutral AH schemes, omegalul
cold moth
No worth lol
covert rover
I guess you can have on each faction if you just have two accounts even if it’s tied to same bnet
torn terrace
will it be sustainable to not have 2 gathering professions? and have just 1 and the other 1 consuming the mats? like Mining/Engineering ? or is something you cant really afford at the start without huge time investments
low glade
1 gathering and 1 crafting is the self sufficient way to go. You can likely make more gold by having 2 gathering professions, but that will depend on the market
Engineering is a huge money dump if you can't mine yourself. There are not a lot of crafts you can make gold out of with it
For double gathering, avoid taking both herbalism and mining. You can only track 1 type of nodes at a time
torn terrace
so skinning/mining is better than herba mining?
low glade
Yes
torn terrace
I mean I really dont expect raiding to be fun in classic, compared to retail, I am not coming for raiding unless it really surprises me, coming more for leveling and world pvp, so engeneering will be fun, but in the same time i dont wanna go rly low on gold and struggle to get the mount and other consumables and stuff like that
low glade
Unless you are really good at making gold you will not get your epic mount as you ding 60. You probably won't even have money to afford a lesser mount at lv40. You can make enough gold passively to afford repairs and some consumables at lv60 if you choose to go with a normal prof combo like mining+eng
You just won't make a lot of money out of engineering because it's a "closed" profession. Only engineers can use use their gadgets
torn terrace
so with skinning/mining until 60 all my dreams will come true ? 😃 then I can drop skinning and level up engeneering
low glade
If you want the extra gold, ye
torn terrace
thx for answers
dense bronze
Its easier to level profession at max level anyway, doing it while leveling is in my opinion just a waste of time (and money)
But then again it depends on your goals
low glade
Good point. If you intend to do a lot of world pvp while leveling then you might find getting engineering early to be a better experience
Just decide what is more important to you
fierce herald
Yeah thinking of skinning/herb for my leveling, make some money ready for enchanting and something else
I also... slightly have my doubts about the use of engineering while leveling. Not sure you're likely to have a lot of the right items just by leveling it up on the side
main marsh
there is no ixp from mining/herbing in classic right?
fierce herald
yeah
small sorrel
Engineering is awesome, but I wouldn't bother trying to lvl it until you're 60
also play warlock or paladin for a free mount at 40
and a quest chain for your epic mount that is time consuming, but ultimately cheaper in overall gold than just buying an epic mount even w/ the exalted rep discount
If you play correctly, gold shouldn't be an issue and you won't be starved for it, but you're sure as hell not gonna wealthy the way you can be now
the game has been shitting gold at players since basically WoD
main marsh
iam possibly too
small sorrel
going back to my roots
gonna go skinning enchanting while my buddy does mining/herbing, I told him about the tracking thing and he doesn't seem to care, so w.e
truthfully it would be better if one of us went herbing the other mining, and both enchanting so we can DE everything and then one of us keeps the mats stockpiled
main marsh
imo mining / engi is the move, but minning early on might be pain
main marsh
prolly true
main marsh
so better would be skinning+mining
small sorrel
skinning is cool, but 95% of what you skin just ends up getting vendored anyway
main marsh
that suck
small sorrel
where was enchanting is a money maker
main marsh
so maybe the enchanting is the move
small sorrel
like once we clear BRD a few times for Fiery enchant, or get the +healing to gloves
small sorrel
we'll be raking in the dough
main marsh
and i dubt someone gonna buy enchanting mats early on
main marsh
small sorrel
between my voidwalker and pulling from max range, most mobs will die before they reach me, even pulling 2 at a time
fear/reckless juggle and I can do 3 at a time
whole swan
It is
small sorrel
imp is at the start for triangle pulls
small sorrel
but when blueberry is online, aoe taunt keeps two guys while I dps a 3rd and fear juggle a 4th if I'm feeling cheeky
but since I'll have to deal w/ asshole trying to gank and pvp at launch
main marsh
yeah
main marsh
uhm
small sorrel
only reason I can afford to DE mats
small sorrel
haven't decided fully but I'm probably going SM/Ruin for utility's sake
might go DS/Ruin for raids if there are shittier warlocks who can be the stamina buff bitch
main marsh
😄
small sorrel
but at the very least being SM/Ruin guarantees a raid spot and you can do 5 mans
small sorrel
hey man, you need one for each curse, and of the three, one needs to be SM/Ruin for the stam buff for the tanks
main marsh
😄
small sorrel
if you're lucky you'll be allowed corruption for nightfall procs
main marsh
shadow bolt bot
small sorrel
but tbh both specs are shadowbolt monkeys
main marsh
ye
main marsh
yep
small sorrel
and just because you're not the best in MC doesn't mean you're not useful
for one, MC is dogshit fucking easy, any raid group of any variety can clear it fully on day 1
small sorrel
two, you need variety in the raid or gear will be wasted
otherwise we'd all be stacking 15 warriors
so if you literally just show up, make effort to play/gear and avoid the one mechanic that vanilla bosses had
grats, you're a raider
small sorrel
nah you gotta no life it pretty hard for rank 14
main marsh
i heard ppl with job can get like 11 or around
small sorrel
cuz 11-14 is all the tryhards who are outfarming each other in honor for 14
you're not getting 14 unless you have a family member or friend play your account while you work/school
main marsh
and u cant stop for a like a week, and come back and farm, cuz u will be behind as fuck
main marsh
i dubt he will get it
small sorrel
I'm just annoyed that I never got a scarab lord title or mount in vanilla
main marsh
i dont even know, how does it work
small sorrel
and now I know for a fact that streamers are gonna race there and beat me to the punch before I can complete the questline
main marsh
the title
small sorrel
oh right, title was after
still that fucking mount
no way I'll catch up in the 72 hour window
feelsbadman
whole swan
And yeah i dont think people have a chance
When they have raids that fill farm bugs for them
small sorrel
just a race between the streamers for bragging rights on the first
whole swan
Will*
whole swan
The war effort needs finished though right or nah? That would be only bit to slow them down I guess
small sorrel
I would rather it go to some random chinese or korean players. I hate watching asmongobongoloid get stuff.
main marsh
how many players, the servers gonna fit, do u know? CUz with the layering shit, i think its possible to make big dick servers?
rigid glacier
Don't play on streamer server?
small sorrel
Kinda hard when there's dozens of them
main marsh
iam eu, no one relavent streaming it
small sorrel
wish they would all play together on a designated streamer server
so I could avoid them
rigid glacier
They wont?
small sorrel
Not all of them
The alliance ones like asmongo, mconnell and esfand are all butt budies sure
but the horde ones might not
main marsh
i heard they wanna go on the same
but the queue for that server would
be like
5hrs
whole swan
Insane
small sorrel
I don't wanna be on a server where I can't get shit done because Sodapoppin, Cdew and Venruki have 2000 people following them around all day stealing my mobs
good
put all the degenerates in with them
so I can enjoy a normal server
main marsh
lol
whole swan
I wonder how many servers they actually launch with
small sorrel
The smart money says: Not Enough
whole swan
Yeah I think they wont have enough at launch for the demand
small sorrel
They've gone through 8 launches now, and every single time they've been unprepared despite the estimations and stress tests
They're getting slightly better at em
whole swan
We dont have any idea on caps or anything either right
main marsh
not rly
small sorrel
but they'll never actually pay the money needed for the amount to make the servers pleasant at launch when they know that the stress will only be critical for less than a couple days
because it's cheaper to just have a couple days of shittiness and an annoyed community rather than pay to have a better launch that would cost them more
rigid glacier
Legion and bfa launches were very smooth
small sorrel
No the fuck they weren't
whole swan
Unless you were on draenor
main marsh
rigid glacier
I had zero lag for entire leveling process for both
main marsh
smooth
small sorrel
They weren't the shitshow that WoD was, sure
but they weren't smooth on my end by any stretch of the imagination
rigid glacier
Legit man, zero lag, sub 100 latency, nothing
small sorrel
do you play on a no pop server?
rigid glacier
Yes, but people on kazzak I know had the same
cold moth
Had a nice breezy time leveling on a low pop server, trasnfered to a higher pop when we couldn't even fill an Uldir mythic raid
whole swan
Yeah I'm Kazak and both were fine
small sorrel
okay well my legion launch was on Sargeras, and my BFA launch on Mal'ganis
so I had a bad time buddy
young latch
I was on frostmorne for both and leveled fine 0 lag 0 issues
small sorrel
high pops are not fun for launches
whole swan
Legion had slight lag in dalaran npc wouldn't spawn
young latch
Same for all my guildies
whole swan
Draenor on EU though went down
rigid glacier
Kazzak has more people than both of yours
whole swan
And was down for a long time.on bfa launch
small sorrel
Sargeras was the top pop server in the game for the majority of legion
I don't even know what Kazzak is
is that EU
rigid glacier
Maybe in the US
whole swan
Yeah
rigid glacier
whole swan
Busy EU server
small sorrel
I guess, I don't know shit about EU servers
garbage servers, garbage continent :3
cold moth
Draenor eu is laggy even on odd hours
whole swan
Wod was shitshow and mop also whole zone lagged out
rigid glacier
MoP I leveled in a dungeon
whole swan
Cant complain about bfa though or legion was pretty much perfect
cold moth
Sometimes even just hopping on a flying mount outside orgrimmar and I get fps lag, doing the same on a lower pop server and fps keeps hitting the limiter
main marsh
gg bot purged my msg again
rigid glacier
Naughty words?
small sorrel
Kazzak only has an estimated 35k, that's less than Sargeras has now, let alone during legion
main marsh
ye, i think re tard is banned word