this is true, depending on the list.
#classic
proper oracle
covert rover
Bit weird but obvious enough
proper oracle
well give it time and the list will change, but the list i provided is just a rough idea
leveling will take time
speed runs take about 5 days.
and most won't reach endgame content let alone stick around for each phase...
proper oracle
yeah horde is pretty much solo, ally tends to work together for server shit
proper oracle
hell i may dust off the 2nd account and multibox lol
tacit sedge
@covert rover Blue Dragon? 2% chance for 100% mana regen proc
proper oracle
If I remember correctly alliance was always beating the horde when it came to server firsts.
agile plume
so you guys going to roll druid?
limber hollow
Obviously
chrome scroll
yeah for sure; balance dps all the way
cold moth
There is a lot of Dire Mail gear on that list for it to not be available until phase 2
agile plume
balance? ur crazy
pearl agate
0 chance
I’ll play Lock probably? Or Mage. Haven’t really ciddd yet
@cold moth that list is a product of private servers
It’s about as useful as BiS list are on retail
cold moth
People still love to glom onto them, just figured that it’s worth pointing out that half the items on the list won’t be obtainable at the start
pearl agate
For sure
But until people can prove the content on private servers is the same as classic
All the private guides/lists/videos mean nothing
restive grotto
Not the math 
polar vine
Yall think feral dps will be good in classic?
lilac wharf
pearl agate
@lilac wharf you aren’t wrong
tacit sedge
Make that sweet core hound 18slot soul shard bag
solar kite
Yeah feral was viable just bottom on the the dps charts. Their gear is all healing gear
brittle thistle
Spam rank 4 HT. Innervate priests
cold moth
Guys resto is best option for Druid right ?
I keep checking Druid play style at all doesn’t seem fun
tacit tartan
most casters in classic have the same 1 spell spam playstyle
low glade
Keep in mind that vanilla is not for everyone. It is possible that you won't find any class fun. The druid strength in classic is being a true hybrid. You can do some ranged dps, melee dps, tank and heal all with the same spec. In PvP druids are god tier flag carriers and good kiters in general. In PvE most druids would play resto for all the extra stuff the class brings and no one knew how to make feral dps work. We have always been solid off tanks and as feral you can both tank and dps on demand (kinda). Guilds would still bring at least 1 feral to raids for LotP and FF if no druid is in the raid
From personal experience from 2005 feral was fun to level and do 5man dungeons with. That's coming from someone who also leveled a hunter and a shadow priest to 60 back then
noble forge
the 1 feral you bring for raid isnt true faerie fire the resto can do
and leader of the pack isnt raid wide so it isnt really worth it (unless your gm is a melee which wants to parse)
low glade
Fixed it. I still deem worth having 3% crit for the melee group, especially if you don't have windfury
If memory doesn't fail me, druid was the least played class in vanilla. What I remember is that my guild had usually 1-2 druids in the raid just because there were never more than that online
tacit tartan
you'd want a few for brez and quicker buffing between pulls
but you'd stick 'em as resto anyways
usually put a resto shaman in melee group for wf, so hard to justify sticking another hybrid in there, esp for only 3% crit
low glade
Resto doesn't bring anything special either if you compare it to other healers. Any spec can brez and innervate
noble forge
windfury
and the reason most guilds are more likely to bring resto druids over other druid speccs is that they arent as far behind in terms of throughput compared to feral and balance
cold moth
It doesn’t seem like I’ll enjoy classic then if Druid play style is like that.. tho I might switch to warrior or something
tacit tartan
also keep in mind endgame is gonna be unimportant for many classic players
leveling is the huge part of the game
you could easily spend 200 hours just to get to level 60
noble forge
I'd say the average, at least for people without recent classic experience will be higher
200 hours is ~8 days played seems fairly low
low glade
@noble forge the reason most guilds are more likely to bring resto druids is that no one wants to heal
noble forge
no
low glade
All hybrid spec were forced to heal. Paladins are strong healers but druids and shamans are just ok
noble forge
the reason they were "forced" to heal
is because the dmg/tank speccs are just a lot weaker compared to pure dps
low glade
But tbh, in a raid of 40 players you can bring whatever spec you want, even retri of balance
low glade
I remember doing 36-39 man raids all the time and having people dc during fights
covert rover
you can also do 10+ with garbage specs npnp
and full melee
but you won't find many going for it
one thing is what you can do.. another is what people will ask for. .and it's the latter that is going to be the deciding factor
low glade
If you raid with a group of friends I doubt they will care if you have the perfect class/spec. As long as you are good enough, that's what matters
low glade
Classic will be a good opportunity for you to make new friends
fluid sigil
i bet u can probably clear the raids with less than 40 people realistically
low glade
You can, with blue/green gear and some pvp specs
You could in 2004 and you certainly can today when players have more resource
And stable connections
Seriously, I remember an offtank who would lag and dc all the time, and still we would kill bosses when he was our MT for the day
I myself would play with 500ms sometimes
There's a video of a 3man Onyxia on youtube
A few very good players was usually all you needed. Though, in some fights a bad player could wipe the raid (eg Baron Geddon)
brittle thistle
People will smash the content, you can easily play sub par specs. Don’t let the snobs deter you.
limber hollow
Tactics wise nothing in classic is hard, but there are quite a few numbers check fights. Bringing the best is what makes them so easy
polar vine
Druid doesnt have rdps in classic unless your resto is spamming wrath
And there is a big difference between subpar and actual garbage, and anyone who thinks the "clear efficiently and asap" mind set wont carry into classic is going to be in a casual guild
People are still gonna talk shit on ferals/balance in classic just like legion/bfa when they werent strong. Yeah they did "average" but your appeal is wicked low
hearty ermine
Classic raiding basically has no tolerance for alot of specs
polar vine
Nah
People are not uninformed now. Too many guides and videos available. "Casual" will clear content. It will be harder, and take longer, but they will do ig
The problem ive encountered with "casual" guilds is that once they get a taste of progression, or hit a wall, they start to go "hmm, maybe its the shit dps classes holding us back" almost always as a first thought. Its rare as fuck to find people who are cool with failing over and over again and yet stay together "for the friendship"
solar kite
So if you truly want to dps, roll mage, rogue, lock, hunter, or warrior lol
polar vine
If you want to never get kicked because of your dps, yes
steady bone
I'm no expert on classic, but I think one of the reasons for not using feral dps is it occupied one debuff slot for subpar dps
polar vine
Yeah but dude thats entirely too logical for these smooth brain " i must play feral at all costs" people
THEY WILL BE VIABLE NO MATTER WHAT
noble forge
why do you need a debuff slot
rocky copper
thees a cap on debuff slots in classic
dense bronze
Need one? unclear
but rake, rip and moonfire takes a debuff slot 🤷
noble forge
but arent they less damage
dense bronze
Unclear
polar vine
Ngl i been a shred spammer
No one in #feral takes my gospel seriously but oh they will
pearl agate
@polar vine literally no matter what
I play feral
Idc if it takes 2-3 other dps to make up for mine
Not my problem
pearl agate
actually the only reason
polar vine
Yeah but why at me
Woth that lil personal tidbit
How is that at all fun
Its so different and on top of that it seriously lacks any attractive reason to play it
Like i strictly play feral. I maxed 4 in legion pre artifact buff and 2 in bfs but classic feral is not feral lol
I d9nt even pve lmfao but i will admit stomping meters is just as beneficial to your self confidence as a comoliment irl. Like destro in mop was 
polar vine
ImmolateimmolateimmolateCHAOSBOLT
agile plume
i cannot wait for everyone to play classic and ppl realize its not as hard, raid wise especially, as ppl remembered.
everything will be fine to use and level. which is good.
we can just enjoy the class we want. and customize our class accordingly.
pearl agate
I agree with you until the customize part lol
agile plume
heh.
tacit sedge
0/0/51? 😄
young latch
that dosent give any real customisation
tbh
its just pick whats best set and forget
pearl agate
Yeah like people think Vanilla talent trees were more in depth
They really aren’t
You still had one option if you wanted to do well
You weren’t changing talents around
young latch
you couldnt choose to be a feral tank who had this or that talent
there is a feral tank build
pearl agate
Right
polar vine
Yeah kinda like u couldn't choose feralcand be viable. No one said it was hard
Its been stated its easy multiple times
polar vine
Also the only reason i personslly thought it was hard, was that i learned how to pve by word of mouth, because 1. Im an idiot, and 2. The person telling me what to do, was also an idiot. Guides and youtube circumvent that problem now.
light sparrow
I wanna be a feral cat in classic but everyone keeps tellin me ill be forced to heal T-T
polar vine
Well thats wrong
U do u man
No one will force u to heal
Resto druids wont even be forced to heal 
young latch
The might be forced to buff shitters tho
tacit tartan
just gotta be ok with doing less dps and find a guild willing to carry you thru it
think too many ppl are forgetting there's no such thing as flex raiding
or really pugging bosses
young latch
Same as any choice in vanilla or any customization if you are speced less than optimal you might just simply not be taken in raifs
And you have to be okay with the choice your making
That includes playing less than optimal classes or specs
tacit tartan
ya you'll get benched. otoh if someone is a no-show guilds will take w/e spec you are to fill 40
so as long as you're fine with being a backup, and sometimes not being able to full clear all bosses, you can run the 'bad' specs
low steeple
You sure you're in the right channel?
graceful minnow
low steeple
XD
small sorrel
I can't wait for people to realize the debuff limit on bosses is 16 and get bitched out for putting up a dot that knocks off an important debuff
small sorrel
"WHY THE FUCK IS OUR 15% SHADOW WEAVING BUFF GONE!?!?!?!!?"
..... a hunter put up Serpents sting.....
"50 DKP MINUS"
vague coral
Are any of the Druid spec viable for classic raiding ?
young latch
Yes
But also if you really care just play a preist or warrior
Or mage or rogue
They are super far ahead of everything else @vague coral
low glade
If you want a guaranteed raid spot then roll a dwarf priest, otherwise roll whatever you find the most fun to play
cold moth
Salut, je cherche quelqu'un pour me r'apprendre le jeu Et faire un perso Avec moi Pour s'amuser et apprendre tranquilement
wild marlin
me too
spice bane
😃
harsh agate
Thought it was last week
frigid robin
it was
tacit tartan
There's a another one starting now
frigid robin
😮
torpid inlet
200iq
torn terrace
well yeah is a part of what they test, seeing if they can actually handle it or not
steady bone
Stressing everything that is the plan
hearty ermine
classic was not a good time for a lot of specs sadly
rigid glacier
polar vine
Where is that emoji from @rigid glacier
low steeple
@polar vine I see it on the weakauras discord
mental crystal
noble forge
5% parry woulda been weird
dense bronze
Its interesting that all these years people have been wrong
small sorrel
where's the classic stress test server? can't find it on realm list
pearl agate
Isnt that long over?
tacit tartan
it's still up
small sorrel
should be up till tomorrow at 4, so I resubbed just to play it
I got scammed
y u do this 2 me blizzard
tacit tartan
clearly the answer is to take your $15
small sorrel
I accidentally 6 month subbed instead of 1 month
and 3 months will be wasted since no classic till august 27th
oof
zinc fiber
do pet battles
dense bronze
Well did you get invited @small sorrel ?
small sorrel
I thought beta was invite only and stress test was open to all
clearly I'm an idiot
dense bronze
Make sure you to update your beta options in your battle.net profile
they added one for classic
and you might get in to the next stress test
narrow knot
You don't have to be subbed to play classic beta.
zinc shale
Guys who do you think back in the old days in vanilla that aspired you to become a druid
Mines was azgaz the nerf druids 
pearl agate
If anything I was inspired not to become a Druid 😂
noble forge
actually in vanilla I played the druid of my brother sometimes he started leveling on my account
and I played like level 38 pvp "twink"
echo abyss
is classic gonna be using classic models or updated current game models?
echo abyss
no idea
I assume a lot of players would like updated models
but some people bitch about "nostalgia"
mental crystal
think you might be missing the point of classic
low glade
No updated models or animations. You get the option to use modern stuff like lightning and shaders but that's it
echo abyss
aight thank you
pearl agate
If you don’t want the content of classic it’s not for you
They already gave people the option for updated graphics
last bison
I imagine there would be a considerable memory footprint cost to having two sets of models unless it were player models only and then itd look really weird in context
covert rover
People will complain about d dry change they make to classic
Every*
Won’t be worth for them to change things
crimson vault
What did you say?
small pebble
I think the goal is to reproduce the classic experience as accurately as possible while maintaining modern server uptime expectations. Some may say “being unable to login for long periods of time” was part of the experience, and it was, but not something they want to reproduce.
I also have no idea what monitor sizes were in 2004, but I’m sure they want to be sure the game plays on modern resolutions and with modern hardware.
small pebble
Nice
I originally had very little interest in it, but I’ve been getting pretty excited recently. Played a different class in vanilla so going to try starting as my current main to get that experience.
polar vine
Not logging in part is a meme
small pebble
Makes sense
low glade
Yeah, very few used 16:9 screens with computers in 2004, the norm was 800x600. Internet connections were also ridiculous, both slow and unreliable. Your options were ADSL, cable or dialup, no fiber (not that the game needed fiber's bandwidth but still). But maybe the most noticeable technology change is youtube and streaming. They can keep everything in their game as it was but it will be interesting to see how the community will react to it 15 years later.
Ah yes, voice communication programs were also scarce, which meant harder to organize stuff
small pebble
Ya. I was watching something yesterday talking about how classic feels much easier than it was back in the day. And one theory is because we have 15 years of playing WoW under our belts and are just overall better at the game. I thought that was a good point.
The game was different back then but the core game is mostly the same.
The game was different back then but the core game is mostly the same.
noble forge
people being massively better is very very real
covert rover
i had a 24" back then with 1600*1200 resolution
didn't really make the chars less pixelated
noble forge
and massively means massively you can still watch just about any pvp(or pve) video from that time and 99% of the people are not only clicking they also are keyboard turning
tacit tartan
was it a crt
covert rover
trinitron
covert rover
got a 26" flat screen a couple of years later.. actually still have that but not using it .. but had to pick that size because i didn't want the 1024 resolution in the height. .and it was the only i could find with 1200
and ye.. was a bit of a monster.. the old one.. some 70 cm deep
when including the cleverly placed cables on the back
small pebble
I played on a 15” Samsung that I got in 2002. My wife still uses it as her 2nd monitor to pull up wowhead while she plays.
But it was my first flat screen so it has sentimental value.
covert rover
XD
i don't care about that.. i just still used it up to recently when a changed placement of computer made the cable too short.. needto buy a new cable before i can use it <.<
small pebble
Gotta keep the dream alive.
I didn’t even know you could use addons in vanilla.
Man I was bad
covert rover
main one for me back then was omen
had to keep below tanks aggro
think i used icehud there too and bartender <.<
might have been later i used icehud.. only used it for a fairly short time.. liked it then but when i tried it again i hated it XD
could never get used to it
small pebble
Seems like some newer UIs work with classic. I think I saw someone using details
covert rover
would make sense
low steeple
Weak auras is getting support as well
noble forge
decursive was huge in vanilla too
I remember I had that but no damage meter or anything
covert rover
yeah.. don't recall i used dmg meter either
was kinda useless since i anyway had to hold back
low glade
Decursive forced Blizzard to change the game API. The addon was too automated. You could basically spam 1 key and the addon would pick the targets for you
Omen at first required everyone in the group to have it installed
If you didn't have it your name wouldn't show up in the threat meters
small pebble
It’s going to be funny when dps think they can just spam cast and rip threat and get mad at the tank.
I think I overall prefer the mechanics of modern WoW but classic is going to be a lot of fun.
They’re both just a different kind of fun
tacit tartan
i dont' think it'll be that bad
anyone wiling to devote hundreds of hours to get to 60 and raid ready is prolly gonna be good enough to know to not pull threat
and the type that would get mad after pulling threat won't last long enough to get that far into the game
small pebble
True
remote lance
Just play rogue and laugh at threat until you get a furrythunderknife
And then you blame your tank for not also have a furrythunderknife
dense bronze
@mental crystal Its bfa client, it was legion client for demo
dense bronze
they want to have both running on same client, less work to maintain over time
mental crystal
remote lance
Rofl
limber hollow
I haven't played classic beta but the videos i've seen make it seem like threat will be much less of an issue than in vanilla
just due to knowledge of how the systems work
dense bronze
Yet just as of yesterday we learned that we didn't have a clue how dodge, hit, parry etc works on bosses in vanilla so there is that 🤷
Something that will impact threat as well actually
tacit tartan
unless they disable the threat functions in the api, it shouldn't really be an issue
there won't need to be any guesswork at all
limber hollow
but inside of raids it seems like people won't be deep prot tanking, and for Feral there's stuff like crowd pummeler for ludicrous threat
but inside of raids it seems like people won't be deep prot tanking, and for Feral there's stuff like crowd pummeler for ludicrous threat
dense bronze
That is emulator talk, which won't work (nearly as good) in classic
A big reason is what i mentioned a few line above
Boss parry chance in emulators is 5,6%, in vanilla and classic it is 14%
Dual wield warrior tanks is straight out of window due to that
feral bear is risky, and prot will most likely generate more threat anyway
noble forge
ive watched some videos about that fury tank
the people which made them didnt quite clearly say it but from what ive understood its mostly if you overgear content
for letting your dps parse
dense bronze
They will most likely just kill themselves in classic regardless
Remember that the boss will have increased speed on next swing after a parry
noble forge
ye I know will see - I doubt that that tho, but only time will tell
dense bronze
I have no doubt someone will try, and some might pull it off
But the meta won't be like it is on emulators currently
cold moth
Got a friend wanting to roll feral dps in classic as he has seen it work on multiple private servers, trying to tell him it won't work but he keeps insisting that everything that has been calculated is wrong, and it works
dense bronze
Well if he is locked in then why bother trying to convince him
Let him figure it out by himself, he might even enjoy feral in the state it really is 🤷
If it was me I would just warn him that I will definitely gloat with "I told you so" if he complains in the future
But that might just be me
covert rover
That’s indeed just you. Because you’re an evil person
The rest of us will try to lift him to almost same dmg as the tank
noble forge
or tell him that at least he isnt playing moonkin
tacit tartan
but moonkin has no threat problems
actually guess that's not true. pretty sure it was possible to pull with early starfire crits
cold moth
"it just needs dedication and hard work, and wolfshead helm and 8 pummlers per raid"
Would be nice if that were the case actually
covert rover
Yeah
Unless he think there will never be progress of any sorts
I remember mc took us about four hours to clear.
covert rover
8 pummelers amounts to 1/20th of that time
Yaaay
So yeah
Tell him he need to stock up 90
Then he’s somewhat ok
Pr raid night. If they just go with four hours
If he wanna do it properly he should aim for well over 100
Is a fair bit of downtime running about too after all
So don’t need for every single minute
tacit tartan
40's prolly closer to what you'd need for farm night
tacit tartan
but eery farm night is gear progress night
noble forge
just heal on farm nights 
tacit tartan
gotta gear up 40 ppl 2 itmes at a time
noble forge
I like when people think the amount of loot you current get in MC is the same as in vanilla
covert rover
Having to go for half or full year without the item ms they want
noble forge
tacit tartan
yeah, i think ppl have forgotten how excruiating raiding can be
most ppl haven't even considered lockout id
noble forge
even 5 man drops
covert rover
I can’t remember which tee item it was
covert rover
But we had one not dropping for a full year
noble forge
will be horrible to farm
tacit tartan
all these ppl talking about 'viable enough to not get kicked'
as if they'll actually get pug invites in the first place
noble forge
ye thats kinda my issue, people right now complain not getting invited to m+ as feral/moonkin
covert rover
Yeah. I mean. I’ll play feral but have zero intentions of believing I’m viable as pure dps
noble forge
and both of these speccs currently are a LOT better compared to vanilla
tacit tartan
raid id lockout was prolly one of the most horrible parts
covert rover
Yep
noble forge
can you do content with either, sure but will not be too easy to get groups
covert rover
Feral is pretty good dmg even
covert rover
Yeah
tacit tartan
there's no flex raiding at all
noble forge
eh
covert rover
Sounds like both my own and another I raided with will be playing
noble forge
I remember literally pugging onyxia in vanilla
covert rover
So I’ll have them to suffer from my deeps
tacit tartan
yeah but pugs formed way after content was over
it's not like now where you could pug stuff week 1
and you needed to follow gear progression
covert rover
People are already mad that they can’t do lfr from week one. Always post on forums every new tier
My plan is just to have fun there
I’m good at that
brittle thistle
I can guarantee you will be able to pug almost all of classic content pretty quickly. With whatever dumb spec you want
polar vine
Lol
pearl agate
Yes
(But not really)
Basically a Prot with Thunderfury meant your dps gave fuck all about threat and just pumped
crimson vault
So would you still need to talent in def. or does that weapon allow you to talent more offensive stuff?
polar vine
Yes
crimson vault
Thanks
polar vine
Yes
dense bronze
Welllll thunderfury wasn't THAT powerful, it was good but not godly good
Made AOE tanking easier, the threat on single target was around the same as 1 sunder
brittle thistle
It looked cool
dense bronze
@brittle thistle indeed, and as we all know: aesthetics > *
brittle thistle
Look good play good
pearl agate
Did anyone look good in Vanilla?
polar vine
LOL @brittle thistle THATS MY MOTTO IRL
brittle thistle
I had that full FM set bruh. I was the coolest Druid on Sesame Street
Except I wasted an entire summer pvp grinding and was the opposite of cool
pearl agate
Tbf if you played Druid it wasn’t a summer, you wasted all of Vanilla
brittle thistle
Ok man whatever you say. 👌
polar vine
Tbh feral dps is small
brittle thistle
Classic Druid discord is amazing
frigid robin
there's multiple "unofficial" ones, yeah
including classic druid
iirc there's also a german one and a russian one
polar vine
Are we "official"
frigid robin
official as can be without being directly attached to blizard
frigid robin
polar vine
😘
Jk rhyme u cool
10% seems a bit low
U mean white dps as in autos
I mean
Its low either way. Iirc feral gameplay was power shifting oriented for energy
tacit tartan
it's still an upgrade
polar vine
Than gnomer mace?
No
Im not sure if that persisted until aq i played rogue only by that time
pearl agate
I bet Classic Druid discord is full of all types of 3% memes
polar vine
LMFAO
"OR WHATEVER"
"Yeah fuck it just throw some armor in there and get around this number"
pearl agate
The biggest stat weight is 1 Feral DPS= .5 dps
polar vine
"Did you pack all the kids lunches?" "Yeah all of em except timmy but thats close enough who cares"
tacit tartan
i'm sure there are some spreadsheets out there that'll get updated with actual stuff from classic
tacit tartan
afaik there's no plan for simc,, but classic is so simple that spreadsheet shuld suffice
pearl agate
Vanilla big TC
Or whatever
Maybe
But are you ok with not being bis?
Is “good enough” ok with you?
tacit tartan
there is no cd
you farm afrm frm fam farm farm farm farm
then blow it all
then farm some more
polar vine
Wasnr multke orange rank
polar vine
I mean dude you are either bis or garbage in this world
You either FARM PUMMELER OR GET PUMMELED
pearl agate
Then what is the argument even
Either you are bis or not
You can’t be “kinda bis”
Or “almost bis”
polar vine
well
polar vine
Im glad i witnessed that in real time
polar vine
Feral is dogshit dps in classic
pearl agate
Either you do the max dps your class can or you don’t
polar vine
So they boast every dps gain
pearl agate
And if you don’t. Someone else will
polar vine
??
pearl agate
And you’ll be subpar dps on an already subpar class
polar vine
What are you saying
pearl agate
You said you care about being bis
polar vine
Classic has a very short list of "optimal" set ups
polar vine
You either will get thay set up, or do less than bis dps.
Its not.negligble in the scale of feral dps
Its negligible to the 5 other classes stomping your dps
Maybe
Maybe not
U could be the last man standing
Against rag
pearl agate
10 dps out of 400 is 2.5%
polar vine
And he has 10 health
pearl agate
Hardly negligible
pearl agate
Lol ok
polar vine
2.5 is not negligible wtf
pearl agate
If 2.5% is negligible you could dps as a healer
Cause it doesn’t matter what you do
So why even care
pearl agate
2.5% is pretty massive
pearl agate
2.5% of a dps on live is like 1k dps
polar vine
Tbh i dont think you did m8
pearl agate
I’m just confused tbh, since you said tu care about being bis but then spend the entire time arguing against it
If you wanna talk about cringy
brittle thistle
This seems like a productive conversation
young latch
sad i missed another classic cringe fest
polar vine
Its whatever
young latch
2.5% is tiny
polar vine
Lmfao that will never get old
young latch
if i lost 2.5%of my savings i would totaly just batt an eye and be like its what ever
who cares i lost 2.5% of my life savings
polar vine
Were practically breeding memes
Inside jokes
You could even say, these are clique conversations 
main marsh
Today duel tournament at 10 am pst and 7pm cest 
dense bronze
🤔
barren plover
damn that was a fun read, imagine trying to argue that 2.5% dps increase is nothing
low glade
Druid's strength is not their dps (or hps). You guys seem to be undervaluing all the other stuff that each class brings in vanilla
Hunter's dps is pretty low for a pure dps class, but no one cares because they are necessary for tranq shot and kiting
junior wagon
is there any sense in rolling balance for classic if I want to do atleast some endgame pve content?
i really don't want to roll another spec or class just because my spec is rubbish
low glade
Balance suffers a lot from high mana usage and lack of good spell dmg gear. Unlike feral, you get lots of downtime drinking and you have to choose between dmg and healing spells since they use the same resource
They were called oomkins for a reason
Though, if you really like the spec fantasy you can still have some fun with it
For group content you bring a spell crit aura
cold moth
Aye, for four people, if you get 3 mages that really want to parse you might get a raidspot
brittle thistle
30/0/21 spam rank 4 healing touch like a good Druid and roll on all the cloth spell dmg / crit gear like I did back in the day
Innervate and mark of the wild are good too.
cold moth
Think about omen of clarity, then think about attack speed, then do a bit of math and wonder if 2.5% truly is the answer there
young latch
So if I got an upgrade in live wow and it gave me a 2.5% dps increase your saying it's negligible and I shouldn't care
I farm heaps currently for dps increases like that on live wow
I would say Easly more than 10 hours a week for gold for consumables that amount to 2.5%
It's the same shit
10 hours a week is nothing man
Not
The
Point
You are saying it's not worth farming gnomer 10 hours a week for 2.5% increase in dps
cold moth
If it were ONLY 2.5% dps from purely getting more white hits, that would not be negligible, and then you have to factor in extra omen of clarity procs, that will net far more dps
getting a free power shift with the hat nets you two shreds
polar vine
In fact, id argue it takes MUCH MORE TIME LOL
young latch
I very much doubt thay
noble forge
same
like what even would you do in an hour? you can do some flipping, but you cant snipe
polar vine
R u poor.now
young latch
Gsm?
noble forge
I dont think I am surprised
young latch
Tsm*
noble forge
big doubt on my making huge bank with glyphs
noble forge
you surely make money, no doubt
yes but you also have to craft them
which takes time
noble forge
it doesnt matter that they are cheap, im aware of that im not doubting that you can make money
young latch
Easly more than an hour
noble forge
but you wont make bank with doing only that
sure with nowadays prices on pots
I agree
they are real cheap
if you rune on progress it gets a bit harder tho
polar vine
Wait that's what u do
Nah i usually dedicate about 2 hours top on a boring day
Debate
cold moth
Since this channel has completely derailed already, I'll drop in to bitch about only getting cauldrons and stam flasks from the boiling cauldrons, when I'm trying to get a few int flasks for my mage 😛
cold moth
We are the 3%!
noble forge
stats scale with each other
even in classic
so those questions are nonsensical
yes
they are
because the dps 1 strength and 2% crit will change
depending on your gear
noble forge
but sure we dont really know that beause a lot of stuff - like boss armour isnt really known
noble forge
I would guess some people used it
seems unlikely that no one thought of something like that
but information just didnt spread as fast and as far
polar vine
I believe so but im not entirely sure
dense bronze
EJ was vanilla
dense bronze
There are several things that simply wasn't known or they got their theory wrong about back then
I have no doubt that we will discover a few new things during the beta similar to the parry/dodge thing
brittle thistle
1 strength was 2 attack power
polar vine
You think its within 3% dyne?
polar vine
Im actually nexiis mayan mathematics teacher
pearl agate
I’m probably old enough the
Tbh
It’s a tough life being the oldest colored name in the Discord
low glade
@polar vine it's 2.5%
polar vine
low glade
More on topic, agility is a better stat for feral @brittle thistle
brittle thistle
Correct.
proper oracle
here's a good question, unless i'm overthinking it, but does moonkinform buff in the balance tree stack with the feral buff "leader of the pack"?
if they do stack with each other, that's +6% crit chance if you bring both of those, but the moonkin will need to stay close to melee for the buff.
dense bronze
spell crit vs melee/ranged crit
Putting those in the same group with be utterly wasteful
remote lance
i dont think any of the "buffers" hybrids were good enough in classic to replace a pure dps spot?
dense bronze
Moonkin aura wasn't worth it no
remote lance
debuffers maybe, and honestly that's just shadoweaving priest that doesn't even need to be shadow
remote lance
you can remain a healer and drop all the totems though
tacit tartan
oh you mean as enh
remote lance
Unleashed Rage wasn't there until TBC
tacit tartan
yeah you'd put a resto there
remote lance
right, hybrid DPS
proper oracle
Yeah, I know moonkin wasn't viable in classic.
pearl agate
Maybe
But a great moonkin was still worse than a decent pure dps spec
And there were more things then just dps an individual could do
brittle thistle
Distinctly remember Consistently being near the top of his charts. Guy was geared and in a good guild.
pearl agate
I think having to rely on a single player kinda proves the point.
brittle thistle
Ok bro!
remote lance
do you have a screenshot of his damage/dps?
that would be the best indication, since i don't think logs existed then
brittle thistle
Nah I just remember seeing some of his screenshots from ZG and naxx. Guy had like 4 ranks of starfire on his bars
It’s an outlier spec for sure.
main marsh
But with naxx gear everyone one shots 
remote lance
Did they ever put nature swiftness back in retail
rigid glacier
Natures swiftness was a thing until legion
remote lance
The lockout yes
main marsh
thats insane
crimson vault
Anyone happen to know what was the best shield for prot w arrior?
crimson vault
ty
small sorrel
man that was some cringe shit to read through earlier lmao, glad to see Multke hasn't changed
polar vine
Negligible
pearl agate
He has changed, but only “negligibly” so it doesnt count
brittle thistle
Y’all are mean
pearl agate
I know I’m mean
small sorrel
I still remember the tantrum he threw when he said something that didn't matter and I said it was irrelevant. Hall of fame hissy fit.
although truth be told, I will say this
I refuse to play feral in classic
and if I ever somehow did, I'm not wasting my god damn time farming the mace for charges, I'll take the dps loss like a man
it's not negligible, but it's definitely not how I'm gonna spend my time
pearl agate
It’s funny you say that
He came in here asking about gnome weapon bis for feral
Then on his own decided it was only a 2.5% upgrade
Then said he cared about being bis but that 2.5% was negligible
Now he is a meme
Yeah I’m generally fine with people who are honest with themselves
But to say oh I wanna be bis
But I don’t wanna do that
young latch
I'm the same I'll play bear in classic but I know it's not optimal
Might even take the advice of naming my guy "GuardianDruid"
polar vine
Yeah i will not be playing druid
I will simply be here reaping the meme profits
And reaping your booty holes in stb
pearl agate
Lulz PvP
pearl agate
Wasn’t PvP even more of a shitshow then?
agile plume
Did you guys watch any of the PvP dual battles today on twitch?
Sodapoppin repped druids pretty well.
pearl agate
Yeah I think I heard
But
Duals on beta are kinda niche content lol
Def not a weakness of feral though
gritty fog
dense bronze
And done at level 30 🤷
young latch
They are all Ivl 30 twins
Twinks
Everything is so different you can't truly compare it
main marsh
almsot 200k veiwers yestarday on twitch
hopefully blizzards wakes up one day, and fix retail
🙏🏿
young latch
Viewers do not equal long term subscribers
main marsh
everything gives more subs then bfa
cold moth
The playerbase
Damned hard to say, for me the main problem is the roster boss, guilds topple, people come and go, mostly go
young latch
So much about the world and the ppl that play wow has changed in 15 years you will never get the same playerbase
cold moth
Can't get a sense of community
young latch
You will never have the same sense of community tho
cold moth
I'd be fine doing even normal instances if I just had a regular group running things
But people get bored so easily these days
Classic, we were running BRD for hours on end
Might end up doing 2 brd runs and a dm north and then back to BRD
The runs were slow asshattery runs, but we had fun
Some guys were in full bwl gear doing 5 mans, some were rolling into a new char and could barely hit the level requirements
But it was fun
Now if you ask for people to do something that takes more than 30 minutes, their attention span either breaks, or they just won't even start
Felt that the playerbase was pretty much fine till WotLK, ever since then, when I've tried to return to the game, the overall enjoynment factor has gone downhill, and it's more about the playerbase for me, than of the game in general
But the game has been going more and more for the quick fix type, which has made the playerbase shift into this 30 minute attention span mob
brittle thistle
You actually think people are going to want to run BRD more than once? You’re crazy lol
mental crystal
The player base has always been complete ass wdym lmao
Only major things that changed is people found our what the more efficient things to do were as time went on and people valued their time more when they don't have shitty hardware restrictions
Like I could kill the same generic mob in a dungeon over and over for a few hours or I could go and play something fun instead in that time because its 2019 and I actually have that option :0
cold moth
But on another note, I soloed a couple legion raids last night that I had not set foot into, and they felt much more engaging than the BFA raids so far, so there might be something about the "fix retail" comment
limber hollow
polar vine
How are old raids engaging
What
Raids for engaging for large groups of people perhaps but aoloing a raid is not engaging lmfao
limber hollow
And he means Nighthold/Tomb/Antorus, not proper old ones ^^
polar vine
Soloing old content is literally the opposite of engaging
limber hollow
Mechanically i think Legion and BFA raids are broadly mostly the same, in a good way. Maybe he means the style/appearance presentation?
zinc shale
Which they brought the resistances back
Or hit rating
It will be top kek to see people's frustration
limber hollow
"You think you want it, but you don't"
small pebble
Are bears viable for 5-man instances in classic? I heard raids are pretty much warrior only.
dense bronze
You can tank fine in 5-mans
remote lance
So can blueberries though just as reference
polar vine
Nah bears were common 5 man tanks
Paladina can even tank 5 mans without a taung
Wait im notn100% if 1.12 was before or after the threat nerf for pallys tho
small pebble
Cool thanks. I forget almost everything about classic. My only memory of it was handing out mage food to everyone as they zoned into molten core.
remote lance
Pally power and buffing forever
young latch
@zinc shale so you want the game to be more shit just so you can get a kick out of everyone's frustration ?
chrome nova
I got good/bad news for you buddy
small pebble
Lol
remote lance
Start with good news
chrome nova
There will be another 10 years until classic reaches WoD content and gets mission tables.
They might come in the future as classic reaches later expansions
remote lance
And then you do classic classic
cosmic vector
Kinda hope they do the RuneScape route later on and have us vote on new content/implementations.
dense bronze
They have said it could be a possibility if the community wants it
(after the phases)
fluid sigil
id want them to add some form of pvp content cos vanilla only has bgs really and world pvp
dense bronze
only?
fluid sigil
i guess its enough for some but ganking and fighting in bgs eventually will tire pvpers out
dense bronze
What is wrong with world pvp?
fluid sigil
nothing at all
its really fun
doesn't have to remove anything about world pvp though
dense bronze
There are also pvp objectives in silithus and eastern plaguelands
fluid sigil
i was thinking along the lines of arena themed stuff
would be fun to see what metas evolve at level 60
dense bronze
I rather not see arenas in classic honestly
fluid sigil
and it wouldn't really be harmful to game integrity really
idk i kind of enjoy seeing the stuff people come up with in vanilla, could be completely unrestricted and allow eng/potions so its not just specs
dense bronze
Just do gurubashi, i'm sure people will show up
fluid sigil
i guess so but then again it's just world pvp isnt it. A lot of the competitive players when they get asked say they got addicted to arena in tbc, just a thought really
like not many of them say they enjoyed the grind for grand marshal or that the world pvp was what attracted them
potent shard
getting the chest there is a dope feeling
dense bronze
Well you can do events, just gather your server
split people into teams of 2 and 3 and go at each other
fluid sigil
i guess thats currently whats happening isnt it lol
idk having an ELO system to compliment that would be awesome
i just think as long as they leave tuning alone it's harmless really people cant complain because they wanted vanilla everything
pearl agate
Is it Vanilla if they add the ELO system?
fluid sigil
well they said there was the possibility later on of additions if people want it or not
dense bronze
Well I think that comment was more in the tune of more raids
Personally I don't think arena belongs in classic, rather just have TBC servers then
fluid sigil
i dont really know what they could add pve wise that could be challenging to current level players
unless they add something vanilla themed with grossly overtuned mechanics that are simple enough to work with the kits vanilla has
dense bronze
Well if you add a raid that is mechanically hard then it doesn't really belong in classic
Its a mistake to look at classic/vanilla with modern eyes, this is something the devs have acknowledged as well
If they were to add something it would have to be aligned with the spirit of vanilla
i.e something that could have been released in vanilla at that time
fluid sigil
yeah of course i totally agree but what i mean is
modern players will destroy that content extremely easily
so it would have to be vanilla enough to feel vanilla but still difficult/overtuned on how much damage/hp everything has
dense bronze
Probably, but people tend to forget to account for how much work coordinating 40 players is, let alone the extremely slow gearing process in raids
Are the raids hard? no not in the modern wow term
"hardness" comes from other factors, like time investment into pre-raid preps, coordination, gearing and attunments
pearl agate
By the time it’s time for any additional content it will be mostly people who enjoyed Vanilla as is
dense bronze
One of the things I dislike about more modern expansions is how older content is automatically invalidated once a new raid or expansion is out
The expansion thing have always been there, but at least older raids were still valid in vanilla and tbc
karmic juniper
if vanilla is a huge hit long term
i would like to see some kind of class tuning
not major class tuning or anything
but it would be really hard to do that
dense bronze
I think minor changes would be in line, they did that in pretty much every patch throughout vanilla
karmic juniper
hybrids are extremely tricky to tune correctly
dense bronze
as long as they don't approach it with modern plan of trying to get everything balanced
karmic juniper
being able to do multiple roles at once is really fun
i love being a hybrid in modern wow even so i fucking love it in vanilla even more
karmic juniper
yea not to the extent in classic for sure
but you can still carry situations really hard with offhealing
you don't really sacrifice overall damage for that ability though
so it's a bit different
dense bronze
PVP in vanilla with druid could be rather fun if you knew how to use your toolbox
Depending on your target it could mean using a large portion of your abilities in a single fight, even some obscure ones
karmic juniper
the hybrid style works very well in dungeons pvp and open world
and it's probably not that bad in raid either, but community perception is a terrible thing
dense bronze
Limited use in PVE in comparison to PVP
fluid sigil
if i was thinking like a vanilla dev on what could be released as future pve content like a raid
id definitely use buffs/debuffs more than current wow does
for example there could be mechanics that deal more damage based on the amount of buffs you have and a mechanic that also strips buffs
thats pretty vanilla esque while still being complex enough to not blast through
low glade
I kinda miss how you could get new spells and ranks from raids
Like hunter's tranq shot or all the new spell ranks from AQ
The prayer version of buffs being drops was fun as well, it made sense for those to drop from content where you'd need them the most
I mean, if you were a hunter who never raided you had no real need for tranq shot
brittle thistle
I raided bwl / aq 40 as 30/0/21. Guild progressed fine and I did ok on the healing meters
Far from optimal though
main marsh
(still no beta cuz EU 
)
noble forge
😦
covert rover
huh
honest ridge
I never played Classic but I like how the Moonglow build looks.
junior wagon
fuck it homie
i'm rolling a boomie in classic and nobody can stop me
i'll just respec to resto for dungeons and quit at 60
or just reroll at 60 to resto to be an innervate bot
pearl agate
That’s pmuch what ever Druid does
honest ridge
How painful is it to lvl as boomy
pearl agate
Not horrible
tacit tartan
leveling is just painful
low glade
Just make friends with a mage for free water
fluid sigil
ruined
noble forge
would guess leveling as boomy is very similar to feral
remote lance
Ruined
sonic fjord
Resto isn't just an innervate bot.
We're a brez bot
We're a tank hot bot
We're 3 things!
vocal halo
Brez bot every 30min? 
sonic fjord
Well that's how long it'll take everyone to run back to the boss between pulls anyway
stuck hare
rank 4 healing touch bot*
sonic fjord
honest ridge
I'm gonna go Moonglow and pretend to heal but I'm actually just a balance druid in disguise 
low glade
The good thing about playing balance is that you use more or less the same gear as resto
low glade
That's what I meant
+spell dmg and healing is better than attack power
and int rather than agi
remote lance
Yeah. You can have a ghetto spell set for healing or vice versa but a lot worse if going down feral
whole swan
Balance your gonna be OOM constantly though
pearl agate
Not on the bench you won’t be
polar vine
LOL
remote lance
Star fire rank 6 I think? Whatever last you through entire fight without ooming
I like the moonglow build though
polar vine
I told dyne this was going to be a meme channel @pearl agate
He was a non believer. But alas, the crop is to be harvested
pearl agate
Maybe they will be weeded out eventually lol
polar vine
Im actually listening to lauryn hills album "the miseducation of private server math" right now
lime wren
Is this the channel we commiserate om how to best be innervate bots for the priests?
lusty gazelle
Rank 4 Healing touch too
honest ridge
I can't wait to not get invited to anything ever
pearl agate
Now you guys are finally getting the right attitude
@polar vine see there are hopefuls
brittle thistle
Innervating myself and chugging mana pots. Can’t wait to de subpar dps and steal gear from mages
Sulfuras for when I need to melee for mana
honest ridge
😎
vocal halo
Anyone on Classic? WeakAuras2 test please!:
honest ridge
blissful roost
convince me to play druid tank in classic
i'm torn because i love druid but i heard its buns
never played classic so idk
pearl agate
Idk if anyone will convince you to play Druid
tired hound
afaik nexii is the biggest supporter of classic druid in Dreamgrove.
pearl agate
You caught me lol
formal iron
wait, classic druid is a thing?
pearl agate
You can get on as an offtank “ok”, or a healer
remote lance
classic is honsetly easy enough that as long as you cover raid buffs you can probably play whatever healer
outside of perhaps some fights that you stack 8 priests for PoH
cold moth
Anyone gonna play feral?
young latch
yep im making a feral tank called "GuardianDruid"
covert rover
Making a feral cat if I get to play. Might call it something creative like feralcat
royal fossil
so in classic you just throw all your points into the tree of the spec you want right?
light torrent
Is there a server list for classic out?
Want to do some research on 1:1 pvp servers