Azul's Helper Pokémon Tier List

[blissful mortar]

👀

Can't tell if this is genius or idiocy

[lofty crow]

XD

[neat elk]

@lofty crow @blissful mortar I've mentioned that I've tried doing more than 30+ hours not sleeping with the "experimental" team on #1135459507959496802 as you can see on the earlier post I made and look at the team's energy on the overview page. I didn't notice that much drop off in berries/ingredients as haunter is giving 5% speed boost to the whole team. After the first day of the week update the power raised wasn't that much difference maybe it's due to me putting a lot of fiery herbs on to the 3 meals of the day

It was one of my experiments as that's the purpose of that account

Trying out things

[blissful mortar]

Wait awesome

I do not have time to read cause it's bedtime but I want to check these out. I feel like you usually become active around when I am ready to sleep sometimes which makes it awkward since I remember when I see you around xD

[neat elk]

UK time

[blissful mortar]

My brain capacity is on the lower end rn and ready to sleep

[neat elk]

GMT+1 since it's summer

[blissful mortar]

Uhhhhhhhh 5:30am in the United States with no sleep

I need to get back on track, finals week is just destroying me with school though and ruined this game helping me but I'm gonna try to go back to the normal schedule

[mortal maple]

And I had 16m with berry team 100% s8ngle sleep session.
Multiple things are viable depending on what you have

[neat elk]

I was pointing out that this specific player is doing an 80 then 20 sessions for min maxing the amount of candies they get and gives to friends list

[final nimbus]

that sounds like socialist propaganda /s

[neat elk]

Having 2 research allows you to encounter more due to the minimum that can appear is 3 while you still can technically get 7 if 80+ sleep score with a really high power and maybe even 8 if a good camp set is active so totalling 10-11 encounters per day

Meaning more chance of getting free candies without catching due to also a minimum of 3 candies per style

That's how you level up efficiently imo

Also you choose to give 2 free candies instead of 1 if doing 1 session of 100 sleep

[fickle perch]

tfw the sleep game that encourages you to have weird sleep habits to minmax

[mortal maple]

One problem

Its always 20 first if i do that

So premium biscuit for less pokemon to choose from

[neat elk]

I think that's what the absol profile pic guy is doing

[hazy turtle]

Does prem give another biscuit or does it replace the regular free biscuit

[neat elk]

More encounters rather than 1 full 100 session?

AHH so it does work

Hmm not sure IF I have time to do that

Plus sacrificing the free biscuit at the first 1

I knew it could reach that high but I haven't done it myself

Yo add me as your friend and give me extra candies😅

On that note did you actually get the reward for having a level 1 friendship level from a friend? I had 2 level 1s just 30 minutes ago and I went to check my bag and only got 1 candy even though 2 players name popped up and mentioned level 1 for both

[neon tree]

No i didnt

The handy candy didnt go into my inventory

[neat elk]

Yeah scamming is

Need to fix it

[mortal maple]

Replaces

[tardy knoll]

Welp I got another slowpoke to see if I could roll a tail, it's the first one, not sure if I should keep the older second one and invest in that one instead or just focus all on the slowpoke tail one or even just run both

[torn whale]

If you had to build one the first is the natural choice

I would try for one with tails in both slots

[tardy knoll]

Oooops I shared in the wrong channel sozzz

[blissful mortar]

uh I rate the inventory/berry very highly personally on the second one and gathering 2 caccao is nearly as efficient as 1 tail unless you are hitting pot caps hard.

yah

[lyric cliff]

Question, is it just the variety of Togekiss that puts it in D?

I'd say it has the potential to be the most versatile

[blissful mortar]

The randomness means you can't bank on it consistently. You will get dud skill triggers.

The reliance on skill triggering and getting something good is most of what is good about kiss. It doesn't collect 2x pechas and it has a very average ingredient list (it's decent though).

If you highroll and get like help bonus and ingredient gathering or get a berry finder/help speed setups you could use it to good effect almost certainly but it's way too much effort/randomness to actually be good.

It just isn't consistent enough to reccomend on a tier list but it's fun and the dopamine of the skill triggering is nice when it hits good stuff.

[lyric cliff]

Yeah that makes sense

I have an insanely good Togetic

And its been the sole reason I made master

[blissful mortar]

I will note above average frequency and capacity is super comfy and if you roll caccao long term prospects could be good 😛 There is very little in the way of fairies rn and it's the rarest type in the game period. We likely won't get them for awhile either if this game favors earlier gens which it seems it does. (nothing after gen 4 even in the game aside from sylv but that's cause eevee)

[lyric cliff]

I rolled Ginger

[blissful mortar]

And the line is pretty easy to evolve you don't even need any sort of level requirement and 20-80 candies is easy enough. 50 hours is just short of a week of sleep and shiny stone is manageable

Ginger is good and eggs are good. Caccao is just chefs kiss

If you got like berry finder or something you don't care. I'm mostly mentioning perks that could make it standout

[lyric cliff]

Yeah fair

[blissful mortar]

Argument for togekiss to be best fairy cause energy wack af, good frequency/capacity, fine ingredients, and while metronome is random there are some FIRE hits like charge strength M or ingredient finder, the pot skill, and friendly helper

[lyric cliff]

I think also its potential to be boosted even further from it evolving from a Togepi is nice

[blissful mortar]

You have 4 great hits in charge M, cooking up, magnet, and extra helpful
2-4 fine hits in the two different charge strength S, dream shards, and maybe energy everyone.
4-2 dud hits if we don't like dream shards (i do though) or energy all. Energizing cheer and charge energy are dead hits as far as we know

[lyric cliff]

yeah energy seems absolutely useless

Assuming you sleep well

[blissful mortar]

12 skills:
33% are awesome hits
worst case 16% okay hits, best case 33% okay/decent hits. I think dream shards and energy all probably good.
Worst case 33% duds. best case only 16% duds.

Aka if we take a favorable stance on some skills it looks like 2/3 skill procs are stuff we like and 1/3 are stuff we don't like.
If we take a negative look on those same skills it's like a 50/50 chance of a good hit or not.

[lyric cliff]

Yeah that seems fair, its not quite as consistent as we'd like

[blissful mortar]

That is better imo than ??? sylveon or wigglytuff. If the energy all skill is good it is added to togekiss good hits and boosts metronome strength a touch. It may even make the low rolls not bad at all if energy good just make them less good

[lyric cliff]

I have to admit I don't really see the value in energy

[blissful mortar]

And togekiss it edges out wigglytuff by a decent amount of frequency and ties sylv frequency but with like +6 carry limit

Well if energy bad metronome is strictly better than wiggly/sylv

[lyric cliff]

Thats sorta my thought process

I have only found a single Togepi, but in all my Jigglys none seem comparatively worth raising

[blissful mortar]

If energy good togekiss could see itself placed high in tiers potentially cause of no dead hits on ability and good frequency/capacity compared to sylv/wiggly, but you can opt for sylv/wiggly for consistency

I doubt energy is good though if it's "good" it would be more like a slightly nice perk not dead space

Which would probably be optimal for togekiss cementing itself as best fairy

[lyric cliff]

Well I definitely hope thats the future we get

Largely because my Togetic is so good I dont want to drop the fella

[blissful mortar]

I think it's the reality but I am assuming 😛

[loud radish]

https://tenor.com/view/reality-substitute-replaced-adam-savage-mythbusters-gif-10816078

[blissful mortar]

I think berry finder togetic is just random S tier garbage cause pecha hard to get good stuff of

[lyric cliff]

Some people seem to think increases in energy late in the day boost berry production

Which holds some water but

I havent seen much of a change personally

[blissful mortar]

There is also talk of high energy = high skill chance

[loud radish]

Energy can overcharge past 100% right?

[blissful mortar]

But it is shakey it might just be people coming off of sleep and getting a skill proc, but I'm confident the game just holds your skill proc for you overnight

[lyric cliff]

I do notice skills trigger more frequently in the mornings

But I dunno

[worn nacelle]

Do we have proof one way or another that energy affects speed of help?

[blissful mortar]

This is something that needs to be explored because there is a chance you get benefits for over 100 energy but there is not enough data (nobody runs slowpoke/wiggly/sylv lol)

[lyric cliff]

I assume not at present

[blissful mortar]

at 0 energy you collect life half speed or some nonsense. Otherwise no

[worn nacelle]

Seems like a pretty important thing affecting these tier lists

[blissful mortar]

1-100% energy has little to no impact on gathering speed

[lyric cliff]

0 percent does massively diminish it though

[blissful mortar]

i think people are stuck putting mons low cause like, what if energy is a bottleneck lategame and this lets you gather during the day that more efficiently

but meh

[worn nacelle]

Are we sure about this? Serebii still says 20% for nature's when we know that's false for speed of help at least, like did we do some tests?

[blissful mortar]

And low information around energy in general

[lyric cliff]

I dont see how it can be a bottleneck

its not like days get longer

[blissful mortar]

Right but you might run out of energy faster

Say by noon

[lyric cliff]

I cant imagine that

That would be an insanely reductive mechanic

[blissful mortar]

I think it's possible when we hit lategame 50+ but that's

1. guessing
2. not relevant now

So yah

[worn nacelle]

Is the "speed of help isn't changed between 1-100 energy" based on any tests or just feeling for now?

[blissful mortar]

I wouldn't say ttar best mon in game even if I KNEW its energy skill was super helpful at high levels

so why would it change the placement now when we don't know

[lyric cliff]

Somewhat related question, is it better to swap out all your pokemon to those that fit your Snorlaxes type or is it better to train up high tiers, any thoughts?

[blissful mortar]

Favored berry is strong.
Favored berry mons that can also make you a dish consistently for each meal are even stronger.

[worn nacelle]

Depends if you want to win now or win later

[blissful mortar]

Some level 10 high rolls though you probably slam regardless. Like a berry finder level 10 you probably slot on regardless of week

[worn nacelle]

People rotating in berry teams might be lvl 50 when people who kept an ingredient team the whole time might be 75

[blissful mortar]

idc if it's woodo

[lyric cliff]

See I dropped my Woodo this week but I think I should swap him back

[blissful mortar]

Relevant togekiss discussion starts here. Not saying what tier we should put it in but it is relevant info for you and how you might frame togekiss @torn whale . When you wake up

[blissful mortar]

Especially relevant summery and the odds for rolls I posted above.

[lyric cliff]

I second this

[blissful mortar]

Tldr, if energy bad togekiss better cause better freq/capacity and the skill can be useful sometimes. If energy good then togekiss has no dead rolls you just suffer inconsistency. It would at worse be a sidegrade option that trades slightly better numbers for a random ability that has all good rolls. AKA togekiss is best fairy

[lyric cliff]

Team Togekiss here, take our Fairy prince to S

[worn nacelle]

I think the problem is metronome is by definition an average skill and a skill pokemon with an average skill seems kind of meh

I would love togekiss to be good because I love the pokemon but idk, hard to justify it over almost any berry or ingredient pokemon

[lyric cliff]

I think Metronome is better than you might think

It triggers a better version of the skill it picks 9 times/10 and can take skills not normally on skill pokemon

It sometimes won't so is the epitome of rng and not consistent

But I think it's worth it for the upside

[worn nacelle]

It triggers a better version?

[lyric cliff]

It's more frequent on average and its a 3 stage pokemon, so should have a higher leveled skill more often

[blissful mortar]

IT probably ends up slightly above average cause of stage 3 nonsense so high skill level yah. not much higher though

it would trigger level 3 skills as compared to 2 stage pokemon having level 2 skills like eeveelutions etc.

But it is basically average. I like the take of it being above average slightly though it moves me personally

Yah actually there are enough 2 stage mons in game it has like a weird slight advantage as the "average" skill since you will always be proccing a level 3 and not a level 2 (and easier to max to level 6 by an amount)

[lyric cliff]

Ill take my slight advantage fairy plane

[loud radish]

[shut perch]

New to the discord here. Polishing off my own tier list soon and I don't see what you see in Sylveon, Wigglytuff, Persian, and Lucario to name a few😅 Also, the whole slowpoke tail discourse is odd to me, given that there's an opportunity cost with running the slowdudes or ditto to begin with. Like, once you get enough for the recipe entries, you could probably just put it behind you.

[obtuse loom]

OK so

Recipes allow for excess ingredients

Slowbro tails are the best excess ingredient

also, you need mons for every berry typ

Wigglytuff is bad imo

until we know how energy works better

[white cradle]

The swagman himself has come to throw his hat in the ring I am very excited
That was my plan on the slowpoke tails and most ingredients anyway, I was just gonna try to find a recipe that didn't need such an exclusive item that works well enough, I hadn't noticed people were talking about them so highly in here but I can see why some one would want them rated higher, because everyone wants those tails to fill out the recipes right now, and since they are out of reach, it makes them feel more important. I think they are similar to Swablu being the only dragon berry making it slightly over valued on some tier lists. I do think it is really good though, so maybe it deserves S... I feel like A is a more solid place for it though.

[blissful mortar]

This tier list isn't wholly an effectiveness tier list or good early so it will def be off if you're gonna make one. It disproportionately weighs uniqueness of berries . I don't understand the wiggs/sylv placement myself either ftr. I think it weighs berries a little too hard, unique access a little too highly, and ingredient lists not enough outside of that compared to like a list where we sort by what is the "strongest". @shut perch I scrolled back so I could find why the OP put them up there.

My guess is that they felt obligated to put a pecha berry user in A tier as the best pecha berry user but these two seemed interchangeable at the time of posting and thus they both were put in A tier. I think it is bit extra though

Because of the ruleset lined out in pins

[white cradle]

Ohh yeah I forgot this one lays out that S is specifically for uniqueness in berries and ingredients RIP slowpoke family recently. Neat to know that about Ditto.

[blissful mortar]

Ye. I already laid out my thoughts way earlier that I think slowbro even without unique access still has a great ingredient list so despite the bad kit could be shoved into the middle tier instead of worse tier

But ye it's whatever really. Ditto does outclass it as far as we know

[worn nacelle]

Fancy seeing you here 👀

I think the issue and big discrepancies in tier lists stems from the fact that we don't seem to know if lack of energy decreases productivity

Because if it doesn't then no reason for wiggly to be anywhere but D

[gusty moat]

is there a plan to make an early game tierlist
or is evolving to final stage a short time and not an issue

[hazy turtle]

tbf the energy skill just seems so outclassed rn

5 to all seems too low and 14 for 1 is a 1/5 min for a dead hit

[blissful mortar]

I am working on one rn 🙂 I'm pretty confident in it. Mathcord and I will be talking about natures in a video (and "ranking" them) and I really want to push something about what mons are good rn at level 1-24 next (basically before our midgame spike down the road).

If you are curious about skills take a look at pins in #rate-my-mon-or-team. I talk about the skills we really want to see early in the pins and the guide does a deep in depth discussion on what is good on which pokemon etc.

[worn nacelle]

I'm inclined to agree. I'm running 3 pokemon with it right now and don't really see the difference. Although there are people out there who think otherwise. Until then I'll be waiting for someone to do a study to see if higher energy=higher productivity!

[blissful mortar]

We don't really see much of a difference to any from 1-100 energy. 0 is really bad but i think that's obvious. Only thing left to study is going over energy limit like say 118% energy etc.

[white cradle]

I've never thought higher energy meant higher productivity. Also 0 isn't really bad it's only 50% productivity which is a big debuff... but it's not like it stops producing completely or anything, which is nice to know, and probably still means something that's a favorite and leveled up can be useful

[blissful mortar]

50%? where is that number from

[white cradle]

Just personal experience, not a fact

[hazy turtle]

even if it was a gradient it’s just hard to justify. 5? barely a difference vs running a specialized berry mon with a better skill

[blissful mortar]

ye

[hazy turtle]

not to mention u can add in naps which refresh energy or that sleeping replenishes energy to 100

[blissful mortar]

My ONLY hangup is how does energy scale into the game. When we hit level 50 or whatever are we going to run out of energy before lunch time cause pokemon gather too fast?

[white cradle]

Having an energy skill is the main thing holding Swablu/Alteria from being S IMO

[blissful mortar]

but that's way down the line

Hard to know

[hazy turtle]

my personal guess is that it doesnt. i dont notice a difference in energy with my high freq mons vs low freq mons.

[blissful mortar]

That's like fair enough of a hunch, but the frequency on our mons when we level to higher levels is a significant increase. We could get like 20-30 minute gathering with the right setup

Need a study on high gather/low gather energy for sure

[hazy turtle]

all this rolls back to the back that replenishing energy is free

if the skill triggers right before u sleep, it’s just a dead skill

[blissful mortar]

imo enough "good" mons like ttar etc. that are good despite their skill just have time to potentially shine lategame

But farming up a dedicated energy mon just to test sounds so pain

All theorycrafting

[hazy turtle]

i think they might buff/rework energy skill eventually

so it doesnt matter atm

[blissful mortar]

Maybe.

Imagine all of our amazing down energy natures suddenly becoming garbage tier lmao

Would be sad

It's possible though 100%

[hazy turtle]

exp rate down seems kinda safe? i dont have one to see if it affects candies though

[blissful mortar]

Exp rate doesn't actually affect your pokemons exp gains

It affects your RESEARCH RANK lmao

no joke it's wack

[hazy turtle]

damn its alrdy future proofed 💀

[blissful mortar]

Energy is the best dump skill but you really don't care about exp down at all

You just don't want like a team of 3-5 exp down cause sad

And like maybe there will be a time where 5exp up mons for grinding ranks could shine

[hazy turtle]

good skills i think will have more impact down the line anyway

good skill + neutral nature > alr skill + good nature from what i see atm

[blissful mortar]

You have to fight really bad natures like help speed down (probably the main bad one) but neutral and up? 100% skill list dependent

I think perfect skill+neutral/fine kit is = to good skills+ neutral nature. I am not accounting for the high roll in berry finder though in this

[hazy turtle]

ye help is a dead mon unless it has like 6 gold favorable skills

[blissful mortar]

ye something like that

Help Speed M is 14% up and help down is 10% down, so if your help speed down mon has help speed M you just evaluate the rest of kit as normal

But that's still a red mark

[hazy turtle]

ye

thats why true meta is staying low power to constantly fish for the easy to catch base pokemon

[blissful mortar]

Evolving gives you permanent stat buffs and babies are easier to catch

I think it's bait going for evolved mons unless they are hungry

They do come in at a nice level and have the evolved bonus frequencies but the work to get them and the slight suboptimal endgame means eh

[hazy turtle]

ye

ditto is the only reason to go to high tier level

[blissful mortar]

You REALLY want sleep styles it's the main reason you grind ranks.

Absol is nuts don't sleep on him

[hazy turtle]

only to throw ur master biscuit and see it has -help nature w/ silver skills and level 100 gold energy up or whatever

[blissful mortar]

Caccao specialist and can get like 8x caccao at once at level 30 unlock which is dumb

[hazy turtle]

ye ill unlock absol on last two days of this week

im a dozing dozer anyway

[lunar current]

I still went for Wigglytuff in my personal tier list, since eggs are already provided by Altaria.

I do understand 5 energy being meh, but if a mechanic is not working out well after 2 weeks of release, it might see a buff/rework in the future

Personally, I wouldn’t throw the puff-tuff line under the bus yet

[lofty crow]

Ill help

[torn whale]

Sylv/Wiggly moved around my list a bunch over the last couple weeks, since it wasn't clear how much energy affected gathering speed. Now it's more established to only matter when it hits 0 I've been planning to drop them, not sure how far yet.

The dream shard skill seems nice to give a slot for early game, and keep checking for procs to help power up mons. Levelling up the skill puts the gains equal to a 3* sleep style iirc.

Other guys here explained the Slowpoke Tail benefits. It gives like triple the value compared to any other ingredient when using as an excess slot, blowing everything else out of the water.

Finally just to touch on why my list prioritized opportunity costs and late game potential. The distinctions between mons only becomes more distinct at higher levels; otherwise you're looking at variables such as sub skills and natures for deciding what to use early on.

Basically every mon can be viable early so long as they have good starting builds, so I wasn't sure how to approach early game tiering. Looking forward to see what you come up with

[torn whale]

I have to remind myself how Metronome works. I was under the impression only lv1 skills could be pulled

[blissful mortar]

It matches the skill level of the metronome. Level 1 metronome pulls random level 1 skills, and level 6 metronome pulls random level 6 skills

Much better than lol energy. It's lol energy but can be something better 8/11 times!

Randomness looks undesireable but i think skills on average are good outside of energy especially with levels and this is much better than wigg/sylv who we can't value the energy gains well for and are likely kinda poopoo

Randomly hitting "bad" hits like dream shard bonus or "pot size increase" when your'e not ready for it still are pretty nice coming off high metronome as little surprises (lol filling up a level 6 pot size but if you're pushing max ingredients this can let you offload. Especially good for f2p)

[torn whale]

Ah ok yeah my togepi does have a level by its skill, I thought it was blank for some reason. Yeah I can see the case for pushing it up, I'm gonna dive through each mon and make slight placement adjustments too

[blissful mortar]

ye ye

I just think it might be much better than we initially thought cause rng at a glance isn't great but the fairy options aren't great and togekiss isn't like... bad it's just random. It has decent other stuff and most skills are useful

Berry finder togepi is on like my number 1 to find list ironically. I want togekiss really bad and berry finder can easily segway me into using it long term and be nutso. The rng minigame could be really fun

[shut perch]

As a player who gets like ~60% er on work days (Pokemon sleep is doing a lot to help me sleep earlier😅😅) and has been recording their gameplay, I too am noticing a drop once I hit low/no energy. It doesn't appear to be a gradual decline. Just a straight on/off.

With energy, I gather at ~2-1.5x the expected frequency. At the end of the day at likely 0 energy, the rate is ~=frequency.

[torn whale]

That sounds roughly the same as what I experienced

[shut perch]

Hello there! Can I get sleep coaching on metafy? :V

What's wack is, every so often I get a little turbo outlier data. Like my Pikachu will have 4x the output it'd normally have for X time. Sometimes my Pokemon will follow the general trend I'm seeing for Ingredients, and sometimes they're like "Nope. Not gathering Ingredients today. Sorry."

[blissful mortar]

This actually lines up with current theory in the math cord. Frequency is your rate at 0 energy and you gather faster for having energy

We just don't promote it cause we haven't done tests to like 100% confirm but I'm getting a bluestacks account set up later this week I'm never sleeping on to check if its right

[torn whale]

Here's v9:

• Wigglytuff and Sylveon from A to C: now we have a better understanding of energy, we know having a skill battery throughout the day isn't that important. Could be useful for strats involving multiple teams down the line, but potential there is hard to ascertain.
• Togekiss from D to B: goes up to make up for the drop in fairy placements. Has surprisingly good base stats and ingredient pool. A lucky roll on sub skills and nature can enable this line to perform well.
• Slowpoke line from D to C: despite how much I dislike its build, Slowpoke Tails having as high a value as they do stand out. Besides, Ditto is rare so you may find yourself having to rely on this for the drop.
• Various adjustments within tiers

[lofty crow]

Does it also align with sleep time gather rate? So 0energy gather rate = sleeptime gather rate?

Only energy>0 gather rate is multiplied by maybe 1000%-1800%. (At least from my test)

[blissful mortar]

This is just a theory qrill talked to me about and it "makes sense" and "feels right" but I haven't tested anything yet

It is likely culprit but need to test area

0 energy = frequency x 1
100 energy = frequency x Y

[nova tundra]

So why hasn't there been any updates on sableye?

Is he just datamined rn cuz I thought the only ghost type was the gengar line

[wise junco]

sableye is dark for berry purposes

and he's not in the first 2 areas

so nobody caught it yet

[nova tundra]

Ohhhhh right ig we'll start seeing data next week

Are there any other exclusive area mons we dont have data about?

[wise junco]

dratini was in the beta and was removed, but nobody knows when/where he'll appear

[torn whale]

Sableye is the last

Any other area exclusivity is just sleeping styles

[nova tundra]

Noted also thanks for the info graphs I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates it

Helped me realize how important S tier mons are

Wished I recruited the doduo and spheal I saw my first couple of days playing 😭

[torn whale]

Swablu is basically identical to Doduo early game if you have that

[nova tundra]

I did catch a swablu the other day actually so I do feel good in that regard

[blissful mortar]

Azul

We've basically confirmed that ingredients are the same amount for a species by type

Aka croagunk always has 5x sausage at level 30 its not a range

And like growlithe always has 3x sausage at 30

Like 99.999999999999999% accuracy

It may shake up the tier list as we get all these listed out

[torn whale]

So it seems, from the dupes I haven't transferred that holds true

Have you guys started collecting data?

That goes to explain your observation on Slowpoke Tail having low counts

[nova tundra]

What's y'all opinion on dupes would it be wiser to save candies for a good mon with skills/ingredient pool or just whale on ur first mon to get the final Evo faster

[torn whale]

Skill mons I say transfer, maybe ingredients too but I'd lean more toward keeping. Berry dupes are nice to have for certain weeks

If you have an insane mon that's, say, a few candies short from lv10 or evo, maybe it's worth transferring a mid mon you don't see yourself using

[white cypress]

hello

[blissful mortar]

Let me rephrase

IF GROWLITHE HAS SAUSAGE at 30 it will always be 3x

Nitpicky

[hybrid escarp]

yo bro how was your exam

[blissful mortar]

I think you hold dupes unless you need box space personally because you may want to hard grind candies one week. Running multiples of the same mon do that.

Some easy optimal* setups also really want dupes like cyan loving a double squirtle triple totodile team it doesn't matter their skills or natures too too much

[blissful mortar]

Was fine

Destroyed my pokemon sleep schedule

But I got through homework hell

[nova tundra]

Omg ur right I didnt even think about running dupes on a team

[hybrid escarp]

are you a uni student if you dont mind me asking

[blissful mortar]

Ye

Going in for social working bachelor's right now

[nova tundra]

So with that would running two riolus stack sleep by any chance?

[blissful mortar]

Eventually getting masters and lcsw

[hybrid escarp]

nice bro

im freshman in bachelors engineering and commerce

[nova tundra]

Oh god a master's fuck that I got my bachelors and dipped aint going back unless its paid for 😂

[blissful mortar]

They each could get riolu candies and dream shards.

I am not like immediately interested as a player in double riolu cause the dream shards are a bit whatever atm (but they might become scarce down the line) and ingredient/berry mons should power snorlax better. That said though if you high rolled your riolus bust them out for cheri week

[hybrid escarp]

was it difficult fnding a job without a masters?

[blissful mortar]

They'll be happy and you get a chunk of meta currency to boot

[blissful mortar]

My masters is 1 year after my bachelors I am gonna do it. My college has an insane program

1 year masters is so hot

[hybrid escarp]

yeah my notion is i need a masters to find a job

[nova tundra]

Tbh I have my BA in computer science hunted for about 5 months had a couple od interviews came up with nuthin finding a job in ur degree is really lucked base unless you got some crazy work/uni experince

[nova tundra]

That is actually insane congrats man!

[blissful mortar]

Bachelor's gets you into most places but depends on field.

[hybrid escarp]

yeah im hoping to get an internship and start from there

too bad i wasnt smart enough for a coop scholarship which sets you up with internship and paid study at the uni

[blissful mortar]

My program requires internship for hands on training. It's kinda the norm for social working to do internships

[nova tundra]

Yea it sucks even with an intership under my belt I came up with nothing sadly😭😭

But thankfully I'm working at a government facility as a security guard gonna make some connections and apply for cyber security down the road👍

[hybrid escarp]

good luck with your future endeavors

engineering is literally praying for my downfall

half the cohort is on the verge of failing

[nova tundra]

Good luck to you as well it's a tough road but pushing thru will teach you so many lessons outside of school

[hybrid escarp]

literally final exams for introduction to computer engineering no one got above 85%

[blissful mortar]

Engineering field is cutthrought and I like stuff with a bit more of a person to person touch so that's why I chose social working

Props to people who go through engineering it's difficult

[hybrid escarp]

different occupations and professions are what make a stable society

I'd like to think even I am contributing in some way even though im averaging 70%

[white cypress]

ooooooo

[blissful mortar]

70% for an engineer is like a 95% for us regular humans

[digital mortar]

question, i can't figure out what makes lucario an a tier mon, it's surely not just access to a normal amount of potatoes right?

[blissful mortar]

If you're referencing this tier list I think it's just because out of the options that can get dream shards he is probably the best value. If you want to do it, he is the only reasonable option (at least without getting berry finder on a mon).

I don't think it's great but if you are to run one he best and this tier list weighs uniqueness hard soooooooo

[digital mortar]

ahhh i see

it might be good to have a dream shard magnet you can swap in when you spend a lot on levels or something, i could see it

[blissful mortar]

I think it might be reasonable for last 1-2 days of the week if you are happy with your ball rank

But meh

If you hit masters 1 could just sub em in

Or run 1 on Cheri week isn't that bad tbh even if not a mankey

[digital mortar]

yeah, that's what i'm doing right now actually. caught one this morning and it's my only cheri producer (since i started last week)

[torn whale]

The dream shards the skill gets each proc really ramps up into the later levels, gains being on par with a 3* sleep style per use.

[worn nacelle]

Let's say having 12 extra energy the whole day was equivalent to like 5 more helps, then it's already on par/ better than ingredient finde depending on your luck. Maybe I'll run some tests today

[stray canyon]

Why is ditto s tier

[neat elk]

just for tails plus ingredients specialist

not for me as its way later down the line and hard to catch

unless you have a master ball or premium and lots of great ball s

[hazy turtle]

biscuits r the true premium currency in this game

[loud radish]

real

[hazy turtle]

still suffers from the daily free replenish

[brisk harness]

question

how do you guys usually rotate the team? since sleeping can only recharge main team

[lofty crow]

Switch in the morning so all your pokemon stay at 100% and can be switched in for a full day

[brisk harness]

so, 2 teams a day?

[lofty crow]

No. 1 team a day. But when you want to switch its better in the morning so that the switched out team has full energy for next time you need them.
Or you do the opposite, and switch before going to sleep with empty energy.
But just stay consistent with your switch timing i would say

[brisk harness]

i see

do you do a mix of berries and ingredients team or ?

[heavy orbit]

why is alteria considered S tier and sylveon meh? don't they both have Energy skills? What makes one good and the other one bad?

[grizzled pasture]

#1133866288771518566 message

Mainly because it is the only Pokemon with Dragon Berries rn iirc

[heavy orbit]

so skills are not valued high in general?

[white cradle]

Well not an energy skill like that. You get energy if you get 8.5 hours of sleep so most people don't need a pokemon to provide their own energy

[heavy orbit]

yeah my energy gets full every day and lasts until the night

[white cradle]

Maybe the energy production skills will be good for people that can't sleep for more than a few hours a day lol

[heavy orbit]

which is why i wondered why alteria is so high.. but if the berry is rare i guess

[white cradle]

Yeah it's the only dragon and the dragon type's yacht berry is the most powerful berry

[lofty crow]

dragon frui is highest value. Eggs are valuable for many dishes.

[white cradle]

I always have so many eggs because of my Swablu team. One time I had like 50 eggs at once

I should stock up the next time I get a lot because yeah, there are a lot of dishes I need to make that use them that I wasn't paying much attention to

[lofty crow]

my blue team in #1135538369238155284 uses many eggs

[torn whale]

Altaria's the only dragon mon in the game, therefore has exclusive access to a berry type. For one their energy skills are different types, on top of that Sylveon is a skills specialist unlike Altaria. Having a bad skill is more impactful in this case

[gusty moat]

How many points does it take to catch a ditto or is it just super rare

[worn nacelle]

Are we sure energy can go over 100 from skills? I slept just under 8.5h today so all my pokemon were at 99%, my larvitar hit its mainskill in the morning which should bring him to 111% but 2h later he's at 90 while everyone else is at 89

[neat elk]

yes it depends on the level of the energy charge s main skill

the 12% (1.12 gold) subskill doesn't go over 100 energy as I had it on a bellsprout that I had tested

[lyric cliff]

That being said, assuming we have a few updates in the pipline, Altaria is very likely to be outclassed

So maybe its worth giving it a little asterisk in case new players beeline to Swablu

[torn whale]

You can say the same about literally every mon. Notice how every single main skill is an "S" variant except one "M"

[lyric cliff]

Tis a good point

I think some will be mainstays regardless though, and Altaria is very much defined by having a nice berry

Does raise the question of why we have such little dragon representation

Makes me think Dragons might be event mon

[torn whale]

It's also a berry specialist so it does capitalize on that exclusivity. The Dratini line was in the beta so it's likely we'll get that soon

[lyric cliff]

Huh, wonder why it didnt make it to the final version

[worn nacelle]

Wait so you're saying if it's a level 2 charge s main skill it will go over 100? Seems like a bug 😅

[vernal orbit]

yeah we saw the 114% energy alrdy

[loud radish]

What makes Dodrio good? 2x flying berries?

[neat elk]

thats the whole point of most berry specialist if you look at all of them

have the energy charge so they don't need sleeping

[loud radish]

oh I didnt know if it was or not

[final mason]

what site did you find ditto having slowpoke tail at?

[neat elk]

then you use your pokemon that wants to level up to sleep with you

[vernal orbit]

@final mason we saw a screenshot of it if I remember right

[final mason]

was it its base ingredient or a level up ingredient?

oh it's its third

[tawny willow]

wow I didn’t realize that, could be I great strategy, if procs where more reliable

[gusty moat]

Yeah ditto having the slowpoke tail possible as its third makes me not care much for it. Having pokemon at that level is gonna take extremely long for me to consider it as important right now personally.

[neat elk]

yeah I've been "studying" serebii for more info

it's not updated yet but it'll for now

[vernal orbit]

@final mason it can be on slot 2 or 3

[final mason]

i worded that wrong but yea

[torn whale]

Need an updated pin for this version

Thx in advance 🙏

[loud radish]

me after investing in Wiggly

actually i might benefit cause some workdays I only get like 5 hours sleep.

[torn whale]

I mean it's still a good mon and I see worth investing in it, especially with a good skillset

But you'd have to be specific about how you teambuild with it, making it difficult to recommend

[loud radish]

for now, me with a small dex, I dont have all berrys coverage so my 5th it seemed like Jiggly was a decent placeholder but I like the skill

[vernal orbit]

I'm on the same boat, I sleep only 5-6hr so either I do a fake nap or manually enter data (when I can) or it's just lost

in that case energy mons are rly good

[fickle perch]

is there an advantage to entering data vs fake napping?

or a disadvantage

[loud radish]

it will mess up your irl stats if you care about that, and you could argue you mnight lose interest in the game quicker by 'cheating'. and something about biscuits and naps but idk I've never done fake napping or sleeping

[neat elk]

Define "fake" napping on for me please so I can try to answer the it

[fickle perch]

well I suppose it can apply to real napping too, but by fake napping I mean using your PGP+ or smart device to pretend you're sleeping for 1.5+ hours even if you're not

and simulate movement and/or noise to get a specific sleep style

on top of your normal 7+ hour sleep (which most people log legitimately, or at least I've never heard of anyone faking a long sleep)

[neat elk]

oh OK then fake nap ftw

you can manipulate the sleep type you want

[fickle perch]

what's the downside of manually logging sleep vs fake napping?

[copper marsh]

first time you sleep during a new day (the nap) ur given ur bonus biscuit, but it’s a nap so you would probably get less encounters

[neat elk]

I've never actually done a manual log as it's less encounters

meaning less candy for you and your friends

[night solstice]

If you sync same day. Waiting to sync until next morning makes it the 2nd sleep

[main mauve]

dang i just spent 5 biscuits on a igglybuff before seeing this 😦

[idle oracle]

just because they're meh doesn't make them worthless

or so I tell myself

[loud radish]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[main mauve]

I could've gotten a togepi instead lol

[crude ermine]

What are the best skills?

Or skills that I should be going for?

[idle oracle]

main or sub?

[vernal orbit]

manual data entered = energy back for Mons only, no XP no wild pokémons ect
and you get an extra bonus cookie the next day

[gusty moat]

If i manually enter data i get 2 bonus cookies instead of 1?

[vernal orbit]

yes the next day you'll get 2 bonus cookies instead of one, but it's normal cause if you do a second sleep ont the same day as the fake nap I'm not sure you get the bonus cookie

I'll try and tell you

[gusty moat]

I did a fake nap once after failing to record a real nap i took and got no bonus biscuit on the real sleep later on in the day. Havent bothered recording naps due to that.

[torn whale]

When making that change I completely overlooked the possibility of not getting ideal sleeps every night, so in hindsight C might've been too low

But for the skill to produce enough energy to offset a poor sleep, you need a set of sub skills, high main skill level or both

Unless it's like one hour off a perfect sleep score or smth

[neat elk]

nah I'd rather do it "legitly"

[vernal orbit]

if you can sure, never said that was something to do over real sleep

[crude ermine]

What is the difference?

[torn whale]

Something of a hotfix, let's call it v9.5

• Wigglytuff and Sylveon from C to B: I overlooked the fact that not everyone gets sleep that the game considers ideal, having this main skill to compensate is a huge plus. Requires a lucky spread and quite the investment for reliable performance

[torn whale]

I assume sub skills since they're the only type that differs between individual mons. Your best bet is to match them with a helper's specialty, e.g. an ingredients pokemon wants ingredient finder

Helping speed is a universally good sub skill

[final mason]

how big of a difference is speed of help vs ingredient finding on an ingredient specialist?

[sweet oriole]

hey all, new here - Understanding the tier list represents which pokemon are worth long-term, late game investment, are there any pokemon that are understood to be particularly good in the early game?

[stone monolith]

Early game it was "Berry Specialists"... of each type to capitalize on Snorlax's fave berries each each. and also sometimes just 2x Berry is better than a single Snorlax Fave Berry...

However, some big changes came today with the hotfix. So things might need to shake out

[loud radish]

plus, levleing up recipes is solid

[sweet oriole]

so it seemed better to focus on berry specialists for your snorlax and just do a simple recipe again and again than focus on ingredients for bigger recipes?

[loud radish]

the first week everyone posted their weekly review and it was like 100K from berries, 30K from cooking, etc, so everyone assumed berrries was best

[hazy turtle]

usually single snorlax fav berry > 2x neutral just bc of the ingredients/skill special tho

[torn whale]

Helping Speed gives you drops more frequently, while Ingredient Finder increases the chance that's what drops. Overall finder is better, since reducing the odds of a dud drop (i.e. berry) causes less time to be wasted

[final mason]

awesome, thanks

[torn whale]

Which hotfix are you referring to?

[stone monolith]

The one that came today 8/1 that appears to have altered helper collection rates. Specifically "In-App" collection vs. passive collection. Though there's no official notes that this was exactly what changed

[torn whale]

Ah ok just making sure we were on the same page

[stone monolith]

Curious for some more insights on the Growlithe/Arcanine line... now that help rates seem to be adjusted. Is getting 4x extra help improved as a skill? later game that could mean lots of berry strength / ingredients.

[idle oracle]

my arcanine gets 5x extra help

[final mason]

[stone monolith]

Yup - Growlithe evolved... goes up to 5 based on it's Evolution increasing its skill level by +1

[final mason]

big helper

[idle oracle]

it doesn't seem to proc very often though, unfortunately

[rancid umbra]

I think Raichu is S tier especially with Berry Finding S

[astral veldt]

Any chance an early game tier list gets posted soon?

[lyric cliff]

Why is the heroic Tree in D

Enlighten me

Is it because Charge Strength scales badly late game?

[eager helm]

I think it's because he's bad at gathering, ampharos has the same skill with ok berrys I think

[rancid umbra]

Imagine Arcanine with Berry S, Skill Trigger M and Skill Level Up M

[stone monolith]

He's slow, but early game he's good... the Tier list is looking more into the long run not just early. Though he's pretty solid early game and easy to target farm on Cyan Beach

[torn whale]

Tbf anything with that skill can rise to S 😅

You might wanna check the pins again tho

[odd berry]

why did you name raichu pikachu

[magic cliff]

does anyone know if the global ability stack? from sub skill

[rancid umbra]

Not sure how this happened actually haha

[torn whale]

It's entirely outclassed by the Mareep line, even in early game. For comparison Mareep is superior to Sudowoodo in every aspect, even at its stage 1 evo

[torn whale]

Not enough data/testing I don't think

[rancid umbra]

Does anyone know the main skill activation cooldown time?

[torn whale]

We don't have an exact number

(Yet)

[rancid umbra]

Do we have an approx number?

[lyric cliff]

Fair, I do love my Sheep so this is good news

I benched my Tree this week and felt bad, now I feel better

[torn whale]

It's within a couple hours iirc

[rancid umbra]

Like help frequency x 1

Or once per meal period.

I have definitely hit once per meal period.

[torn whale]

Even after the base cooldown passed the time it takes to trigger isn't exact

We currently believe there to be a trigger percentage at every helping speed interval

On top of the cooldown

[gusty moat]

I benched my sheep for ghastly, too many pokemon i want to build. If only leveling didnt take years

[digital mortar]

I'd actually love to see a like...a first month of play tier list to help get off the ground right

[gusty moat]

If only we could see what skills wild pokemon have, id be catching all the lvl 10 sleeping xp pokemon i see

[rancid umbra]

I doubt non-friended mons have assigned sub-skills. I would bet they are determined randomly when caught.

[torn whale]

@blissful mortar you were working on one right?

[odd berry]

i think for early game you SHOULD be catching evolved pokemon. they simply drop berries and ingredients at a higher frequency

stage one pokemon are an investment

[torn whale]

Not always, certain evolved mons like Sudowoodo suck

[blissful mortar]

What other people said. Nutty cause tails and tails/leeks/oil is highest combo in game

[rancid umbra]

Anybody get a ditto that drops tails yet?

[blissful mortar]

Highest value ingredient set*

Let me rephrase

[blissful mortar]

Ye. I can get to it tonight or tomorrow

Tonight after midnight, or tomorrow day lol

[torn whale]

Besides it's quite the resource pool just to catch an evolved mon. If you do that and end up with unlucky skills it's a total waste

[odd berry]

i think woodo is very subskill dependent and probably worse than the mareep line

[blissful mortar]

It's worse longterm but woodo is really good short term. You really prefer getting it as bonsly though

Charge strength M is really good and we've been overlooking it somewhat

[torn whale]

Honestly even as Bonsly it's a yikes

[odd berry]

agree

[torn whale]

Almost 2 hours helping speed 💀

[blissful mortar]

Bonsly is bad but if you can get it 12 and evolve

It's one of the hardest spikes you can have its so consistent

And good

[odd berry]

my bonsly has a great nature but very mid skills

[solar steeple]

Woodos carry size is also very low if you catch it as a woodo

[blissful mortar]

It's probably highest short term "invest" it'd a pain it evolves at 12

[odd berry]

Does Speed of Help actually help with skills?

[blissful mortar]

The capacity is not ideal but especially the fact it's charge 1 and not charge 2 is the nail in the coffin

Since you run the lines for that skill consistency

[torn whale]

@odd berry

[blissful mortar]

That sounds weird

I know there is a diff for skill mons to trigger more frequently

[odd berry]

so any time your pokemon gives you a berry or ingredient, there's a chance it activates its skill?

[torn whale]

That's the theory yeah

[blissful mortar]

There may be a small correlation to energy for trigger % or frequency if you can roll skill when gathering but those are smaller

[torn whale]

It'd explain why you more frequently notice skill procs after waking up

[blissful mortar]

Uh Azul i don't know where you got that from but if it's consistent data it might point towards gathering CAN roll berry, ingredient, or skill

Thats best I got

[odd berry]

i wonder if Energy Recovery Bonus will be especially helpful because of the patch

but I don't even think I want to take a woodo to level 25

[torn whale]

Talked about the idea with mcmandin earlier, it correlated with their testing in https://discord.com/channels/1129035839398228028/1135459507959496802

[blissful mortar]

I really need to read through it

I just haven't had the time/motivation too but they're doing good work I think

[torn whale]

Same there's some interesting implications for team building

[hazy turtle]

early game tier list is kinda bait though

[astral veldt]

What do you mean?

[torn whale]

Kinda agree, it's very dependant on individual differences like nature

[hazy turtle]

expanding ur berry/ingredient range is what u want imo

[odd berry]

plus that gives you diamonds

[hazy turtle]

like even if there’s a single s tier early game pokemon

[torn whale]

Pichu and Caterpie are cream

[odd berry]

it's probably chikorita

[hazy turtle]

u’d still benefit and progress arguably more by making catching pokemon of types/ingredients u dont have / cant produce

[torn whale]

All the starters are up there too

[hazy turtle]

ye all the starters are really good bc they either produce 2x berries or 2x ingredients

[torn whale]

I did see a tier list go up on YouTube several hours ago

Seemed pretty mindless tho, dumped all the berry mons in S and had super useful ones like Ditto in D

[hazy turtle]

ditto is useful just super hard to get

[blissful mortar]

Squirtle. Cyan always like orans and you use milk all 3 dish types. Even on on greengrass it pushes you to make quotas for dishes although less slam dunk neccesary than cyan. You really really want it for cyan or even 2

[odd berry]

cyan?

[blissful mortar]

Cyan Beach

[hazy turtle]

cyan beach

[torn whale]

Island 2

[blissful mortar]

It always asks for water/fairy/flying berries

[odd berry]

island 2 snorlax ALWAYS likes orans?

[hazy turtle]

but then u have to play cyan beach

[blissful mortar]

Cyan Beach is lit

You unlock the sleep styles earlier and it unlocks level 3 sleep styles for everyone period it just looks blegh at a glance cause harder to progress and you need right berries

If you catch pokemon for it though of the right berry types it's very cozy

Particularly squirt/totodile but we like birds too

Fairies meh unless they rolled really lucky kits though

[loud radish]

🏖️

[torn whale]

Mhm, Swablu Doduo combo hard carried

[hazy turtle]

just no exclsuives on cyan beach that make it worth vs getting a magnemite/swablu etc on greengrass

[torn whale]

At least out of the limited number that do spawn there many are great pickups even early

[blissful mortar]

Ye I think you go either way if you can support cyan you should do it though for sleep style reasons to unlock taupe, but very small bonus tbh.

The smaller pool technically better for candy density and it has good mons like said squirtle, spheal line, and totodile in large amounts. Even still has pika

Greengrass has some good exclusives though ofc

[hazy turtle]

if u have double squirtle double totodile party i dont doubt it’s prob insane for consistently farming snorlax week by week

[odd berry]

only dragon type

[blissful mortar]

Other Kanto starters lit af and you CAN get absol when you hit ultra which is like nuttiest mon rn just exceedingly rare

[hazy turtle]

dragon type + berry specialist

op

[solar steeple]

Is heracross any good ? I really want one cuz it’s one of my fav mons

[odd berry]

heracross is in this game?

[solar steeple]

Yeah

[hazy turtle]

ye im hoping i get absol

[torn whale]

Caterpie too which is massive

[blissful mortar]

Heracross looks like i5 might be solid but idk what ingredient amounts it hits

[hazy turtle]

i’ll hit ultra sat and i might do double friend incense

[blissful mortar]

Ultra 2 is when absol unlocks

So FYI if you didn't check yet

[lofty crow]

lvl1: 1 honey, lvl30:2honey, lvl60: 2 mushroom.
others still unknown.
Ingredient Magnet skill

[stray canyon]

That’s awesome need me a ditto!

[lofty crow]

ditto looks really strong.

[hazy turtle]

ye ill hit that before saturday sleep

[torn whale]

Tempted to master ball one

Ik the correct decision is to save for future updates but the temptation 💀

[hazy turtle]

i just wanna save my points

master ball is the biggest bait in this game i s2g

[solar steeple]

How many bars is absol?

To get as friendship

[torn whale]

16

[hazy turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-pikachu-pokemon-shock-surprised-pikachu-gif-15357817

mrw i use my masterball on ditto and it’s negative help all common skills

[minor kraken]

why is altaria s tier?

[torn whale]

Just find a shiny and guarantee the catch 🤣

[hazy turtle]

dragon berry specialist

[minor kraken]

ahh

[hazy turtle]

then no need for masterball BET

[minor kraken]

it's the one that semt off for me on the list

[stray canyon]

@blissful mortar this is you right? We’re almost there!

[solar steeple]

Do we have any ideas when the first event is going to be

[torn whale]

It's somewhere in #datamine-findings

[solar steeple]

Thanks

[hazy turtle]

i wish there was a way to view level of a dish

[odd berry]

i wanna be surprised on what it is tho

[blissful mortar]

Ngl

I feel like FINDING absol is like shiny odds

[odd berry]

but there are dark-type incense right

[blissful mortar]

It's so damn hard to find lmao. Nobody on server has it and just 1 person on someone's friends list is the only one I know of

[hazy turtle]

but u need to be a dozing dozer

[blissful mortar]

Like the only data we have on absol is through one guys friends list cause they happened to own one

They literally just noticed the absol pfp and were like "wait"

I'm praying it shows up at ice island.

[solar steeple]

I really want sableye to be good, it’s such a cool mon

[hazy turtle]

is it not in the cave as well

[blissful mortar]

Nope

No taupe absol

[hazy turtle]

rip. i do want to see spread out tyranitar though

[blissful mortar]

Could be me grasping but thus game has baller attention to detail it's so good. My hope is that absol is at ice cause it was a big deal it was in the ice forest in the mystery dungeon games. They would do something like that

[hazy turtle]

literally how i be sleeping

[astral veldt]

Hmm I may try it next week with my Swablu and Squirtle. Could be fun!

[blissful mortar]

. Look for blue crocodiles too. They're really good on cyan

[astral veldt]

This is only my second week playing. Glad I returned to Greengrass

[blissful mortar]

Greengrass is way more comfy and it's not like worse than cyan to stay there just diff perks. I like that the game is casual and the islands are kinda balanced 🙂

Cyan great if you like optimizing and greengrass just vibe and look for the wide variety of mons

[loud radish]

[lyric cliff]

Seems like Greengrass is wisest early for meeting sleep dex goals

[rancid umbra]

Peace is a nice guy, but ya he needed to give the list more thought.

[dull hill]

Based on the current theorycrafted tier list how are people putting together their teams pre max evo?

[blissful mortar]

Run your mons with good subskill spikes at 10 (like help M, bonus help, berry finder, skill level up M, skill trigger and ingredient finder M situationally based on species).

Match your favored berries

Match ingredient specialist to the weeks favored dish usually squirtle,.

And in cyan just use squirtle/totodile

[lofty crow]

anybody know with which level golduck can be evolved to`?

[dull hill]

Good advice. Appreciate it

[blissful mortar]

Skill trigger M particularly is weird. If you're curious about who does or doesn't like I have it listed here. In the skill trigger section 😛
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1klboAkPhl4MitUL7c2od8CROkomjT6Ar9Rjw-2lrZwE/edit?usp=sharing

I think it's generally a good read and helps people wrap their heads around mons. Put a lot of effort into this

[astral veldt]

I’ll read this now!

[dull hill]

Im a sucker for docs/spreadsheets. Ill take a look. Once again appreciate it ❤️

[blissful mortar]

I also have it pinned in #rate-my-mon-or-team

so if you want to find it latter just explore pins

[loud radish]

the pages keep jumping around as im reading 😭 idk if thats an edit thing or not but its trolly af bahahaha.

[blissful mortar]

Sorry about that lol. i was editing it

I am done now xD

no more page jumpy I promise

[loud radish]

haha was that actually it

i dont use docs often

[blissful mortar]

I realized the ingredient section was out of date and didn't want bad info so IMMEDIETELY went into edit mode

[loud radish]

hahah

[blissful mortar]

yah that was it. I was typing while you were reading lmao

I finished update to ingredient section

[loud radish]

its a great guide!!

[blissful mortar]

thank you! I put a lot of work into it. I've gathered a lot of useful info over the past couple weeks being super active here and I am fairly confident in this stuff

[astral veldt]

Will the - sleep exp get updated? Seems like the lack of major drop changed

[blissful mortar]

what do you mean

[astral veldt]

I mean - energy recovery

Do you still view that as a good nature?

[blissful mortar]

energy recover down is basically the best nature for sure. You will get full energy by sleeping every day even with this nature

It is th easiest stat to dump by far aside from exp, but we don't like having too many mons with exp down since it can affect research rank progression

[astral veldt]

What if my sleep scores are usually 50-70? Won’t my -energy recover mon be dead by noon?

[blissful mortar]

We kinda are assuming players are using the app as intended which is trying to get close 100 sleep score in a night and getting that 8+ hours of sleep

If you are having bad sleep scores it won't be JUST the -energy mons that suffer

every mon you have will

There might be a sweetspot where energy - is bad but I couldn't tell you what average sleep score that is

It would still be better to gather faster though even then likely for like a help speed up energy down nature though

etc.

[neat elk]

Hey @blissful mortar when overflow happens during sleep what is getting fed to snorlax berries AND ingredients or just berries?

[blissful mortar]

Just berries. Aka berry specialists and mons that don't have ingredient finder fare a bit better in overflow. Ingredient mons suffer the most in overflow since a lot of their kit is designed to have high value ingredient pulls and whatever berries.

You prefer not to go into overflow because favored berry bonus isn't applied as far as we can tell but berry mons can still really power through it no problem

[neat elk]

Hmm ok just want to know as I did some testing and will explain in my thread

[stone monolith]

I feel like Snorlax Berry Bonus is... applied in overflow overnight?
I've had a "Sneaky Snacking" from earlier this week that shows a major disparity in berries fed to Snorlax while Sneaky Snacking triggered in the morning with my favored berry guys just by far feeding extra strength

[blissful mortar]

What is sneaky snaching?

I want to point out

[lofty crow]

It got fixed. Now you only get 80% energy on a full 8.5 hour rest. -20% multiplicator. So energy down might be rather bad if you dont have a “team energy recover bonus of 12%” to counter it. Or mainskill to get energy

[lofty crow]

-answer to this

[stone monolith]

I have Grepa Berry as a Snorlax Favorite

[blissful mortar]

Pokemon that gather very fast or pokemon that have low capacity can reach overflow faster than pokemon that have high caps or low frequency. They will display as having high a high impact on the strength

Like pikachu gathers insanely fast and pikachu isn't bad either (and lowish cap there) so they will hit overflow faster and start feeding lax berries

[stone monolith]

The "Chikorita" is also berry specialist but gave waaaay less 🤷‍♂️

[blissful mortar]

Like check how fast your rats gather compared to chiko.

Also if there is a big level difference it can display higher. Higher level mons have more valuable berries so even in overflow they do well

[stone monolith]

4 level difference between the Chikorita and the Pikachu above it

[blissful mortar]

There is a touch of rng involved as well, you CAN roll berry or ingredient. if that chikorita is low level, rolled lots of ingredients while in overflow, or just is a lot slower with higher cap than pika bros. let me grab you a relevant screenshot

These metapod are:
1 a lot higher level than pichu
2 favored berry.

pichu isn't favored berry in this screenshot

When we mathed it out 2 of these metapods all gathered a like pretty average amount of berries but metapod+ low rolled a lot of ingredient drops in overflow and the metapods in general should have slammed pichu harder in this category cause of level diff and favored berry

[final nimbus]

i found it the one night i had garbage sleep lol

[blissful mortar]

but pikachu high rolled a lot of berry drops and the metapods hit like average

and one got bad rolls

There is rng involved cause of ingredient % gather chances

And most things we have seen do not suggest a favored berry bias at ALL once you hit overflow

[blissful mortar]

I'm jealous

I would splurge money to catch if I find absol lmao

cool mon and good this game

[final nimbus]

i spent 4 great balls on that sucker

i hate him and i love him

[stone monolith]

Gotcha - today was all messed up i think with the patch... The Strength went straight to the Lax with the "Sneaky Snacking" only having Chikorita providing overflow EXP.

Would be curious if you can divide the strength applied by an expected berry amount and see if it makes a number of potential berry drops

[hazy turtle]

any + specialty with - non specialty is bis to me. energy down still may not be that bad unless they also changed energy affecting frequency

ie pichu + berries - ingredients

or + help since there isnt + berries i think

[blissful mortar]

@lofty crow WE 100% know that energy got changed today?

[hazy turtle]

energy down definitely made a difference in energy recovery from sleep

[wraith inlet]

My energy recovery down Pikachu recovered 17% less energy than the rest of my team, who got 82%

17 points less

Not % sorry

So 20% less, rounded up

But other people got 20% rounded down which is fun

[lofty crow]

Manye people showed proof

[lofty crow]

Its probably a number like 17.6 and normal rounding shown to the user

[blissful mortar]

kkk

YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS

[wraith inlet]

I only get around ~80% energy recovered per night anyways so in my experience my pokemon run out of energy after around 13-14 hours

[blissful mortar]

TOGEKISS BUFFED BY THE ENERGY REGAIN NERF

Togekiss propoganda rise up

[final mason]

[lofty crow]

Yes

[blissful mortar]

[final mason]

[blissful mortar]

[final mason]

togekiss buffed bc energy skills are slightly more valuable now?

[wraith inlet]

A lot of people are saying that togekiss buffed bc energy skills are slightly more valuable now

Throw out the tier list and start over

[white cradle]

Was it really an energy regain nerf or they fixed how it was supposed to work in the first place lmao

[hazy turtle]

they fixed how it was supposed to work

if only they also fixed energy skills

[final mason]

watch me roll out with a team of five togekiss

[hazy turtle]

cus they still suck

[wraith inlet]

What's next, exp gained down affecting the Pokemon's exp gained and not research exp?

[white cradle]

My lonely Swablu looking better

(Help speed up, energy recovery down)

Oh that's a good point @wraith inlet

[hazy turtle]

that’s basically bis swablu

[blissful mortar]

Energy is probably comfort now maybe for people that regularly gather is my guess

I actually like the change a good bit

Makes everything a lot case by case like mon swapping might be better

And like besporut/larvitar might gather throughout the day a lot easier than like Kanto starters but Kanto starters can do the whole ingredient magnet

I hope energy skills good

[final mason]

why exactly is butterfree A tier?

[odd berry]

it evolves early and thus gets a very good main skill and a big inventory

[neat elk]

Yeah it should be s tier imo

Ss tier for me as it's so good

It can drop the best ingredients once unlocked and has the highest limit atm without any subskill

[loud radish]

honestly im checking in on the game every 45 mins or so and I feel like my berries and ingredients are the same

i dont feel a nerf

[worn nacelle]

So I got bad news for togekiss

[loud radish]

[worn nacelle]

Which is good news for wigglytuff

[loud radish]

[worn nacelle]

Did an experiment, it's not quite over but it looks like energy is indeed linked to productivity

[final mason]

[worn nacelle]

I'll post my results tomorrow morning when I've got a full day of data

[odd berry]

why is this bad news for togekiss?

[worn nacelle]

Just because it's better news for wiggly so it might not be the premier fairy anymore 😅

[blissful mortar]

Higher end of frequency for cast and good capacity.
Ingredient magnet is steller on berry mons. They're really great for patching dishes while still optimizing for berry magnets.
Honey is used in a few really good dishes you can be making now and lategame even if it's low value.
It's easy af to get it's one of the few stage 3's we can reach now.
Only downside is lum berry bad but it's the only lum berry we have access to aside from heracross I think? It's really good for being able to whip out on lum weeks cause not a lot has it.

Help? 🙂

[worn nacelle]

Overall it's better for toge but just not in the context of a tier list

[blissful mortar]

Not in the context of this list maybe

[worn nacelle]

But yeah metronome shouldn't have any duds assuming my research is correct

[final mason]

my lonely caterpie is gonna grow up big and strong

[blissful mortar]

I think it probably moves togekiss up a tier if we talk about effectiveness but I'm tentative there till we get a good pulse on how the change affects energy in generally

[worn nacelle]

It's not based on the change

[blissful mortar]

Ye if togekiss has like NO duds and we like energy now it should shoot up

[worn nacelle]

It's based on energy in general

[blissful mortar]

The change is why it would matter

[worn nacelle]

No this matters regardless of the change

[blissful mortar]

Hitting 0 is very very bad and we get 20% less energy a day

[worn nacelle]

It's not about hitting 0

Pokemon at 100 are more productive than pokemon at 50

Has nothing to do with the natures

[blissful mortar]

100 is a small boost compared to 50

It is 3xistant but it's not like something we go crazy over

[worn nacelle]

My data showing a 20% difference ish

And no one has any other data

[worn nacelle]

Between 50 and 100 that is

[blissful mortar]

That is a big number. If that's accurate then that sounds good. I want to see one more study since it is difficult to track

[worn nacelle]

Yes of course, my study shouldn't prove numbers as 1 sample size is too small but it definitely shows a trend

[blissful mortar]

If that's true we like it a lot for players freqeuently check a lot. Want to cross check to be safe though 👍

Even if it's a lower amount than 20% (say 10% diff) that's still a helpful chunk of gathering speed

[worn nacelle]

Yeah I didn't want to crowdsource it yet because it's a bit more complicated than taking a screenshot so there's a high chance for user error for people who don't understand the experiment

[blissful mortar]

And we know 0 is bad anyways

[hazy turtle]

that’s big if true

[blissful mortar]

LMAO

Imagine if it turns out energy all is better than help bonus all

That would be WILD

And hilarious

[hazy turtle]

help bonus would still prob better

just means energy mons r back on the menu

[random urchin]

toge- fanbase in shambles

[karmic fern]

Honestly o think after the most recent update energy is more imporant

My pokemon seem to slow down a ton more when they are tired now

[karmic fern]

Toge?

[digital mortar]

Toge-pi/tic/kiss

[ivory zodiac]

geeze, how are these snacks so strong? were they at 100% energy and left to gather throughout the day? i only get about 1000 a night

[blissful mortar]

It was overnight. I do not know why these numbers are so high but I calced it and like the pichu gathered berries 24 times overnight or something dumb like that. It rolled like no ingredients xD

to get the power it did

[ivory zodiac]

can i see the pichu's stat page?

[blissful mortar]

uhhhhhhh i'd have to find

It wasn't impressive if I remember

Oh wait no yah it was crazy lmao

Berry finder and speed of help at 11

I remember now

[ivory zodiac]

ok

[blissful mortar]

FUCK that's a good totodile

[ivory zodiac]

so we have the same frequency

[blissful mortar]

[ivory zodiac]

my berries are faveroite

[blissful mortar]

Berry finder pichu

and high rolled no ingredient drops

or something

[ivory zodiac]

oh

[blissful mortar]

ye

[ivory zodiac]

so just luck?

[blissful mortar]

Berry finder op

[ivory zodiac]

that's a lot of luck

[blissful mortar]

slightly lucky too

[ivory zodiac]

assuming no luck, we would just expect to see 50% more strength

but that's more than double the expected strength

AND

[blissful mortar]

You "gather" afterwards so it was gathering 3 berries a pop and highrolling no ingredients or low ingredients make the highroll way higher

Your totodile most likely had average luck and this had good luck

[ivory zodiac]

the 300 strengh night i went to bed with 33% energy due to "energy for everyone" level 2, triggering 3 times in one day

[blissful mortar]

Like it's not gonna be just 50% better strength at night. That's the average

But the pichu has higher highs.

idk make sense?

[ivory zodiac]

yeah

[blissful mortar]

ye

[ivory zodiac]

what about the metapods?

[blissful mortar]

I'd have to check..

[ivory zodiac]

i assume the discrepency there is just do them having great frequency scores for being 2nd stage mons

[blissful mortar]

found another culprit

Help bonus isn't visually shown on your frequency but that whole squad was gathering faster too

[ivory zodiac]

yeah, damn, sick team

[blissful mortar]

ye

[odd berry]

was that metapod once a caterpie

doesnt look like it

[ivory zodiac]

dosn't look like it

[blissful mortar]

No it should be caught as metapod

which is fine enough

[ivory zodiac]

it is the lowest scoring metapod

so maybe the other 2 are evolved

[odd berry]

Your metapod and my caterpie should fight

[blissful mortar]

Not my metapod lol

[odd berry]

oh oka

[blissful mortar]

Damn that's some spicy butter bug

[odd berry]

they should still fight

[blissful mortar]

Skill level up M solid on magnets I'm jelly

gathering machine that happens to give double berries

[odd berry]

don't be jelly. this is my best pokemon

except maybe the chickcorea

what do you think of the level 60 honey unlock?

[timid pollen]

So is it better to go for all berry colecters and one ingredient colecter for a one ingredient recipe or have a mix

[ivory zodiac]

i have a wartortle an ivysaur and i'm having trouble keeping my snorlax fed

[blissful mortar]

I would have to compare it to the amounts of other things it could get. I think it's either bad or neutral but we don't like hate it or throw it out or anything. honey is in a LOT of really good dishes particularly desserts iirc so you need to get a qoata of it on your team somewhere I'm pretty sure at these late stages and it is a fair amount of honey at once too. We probably don't mind but difficult to say. It is less points than other stuff but is a desireable component sometimes

[blissful mortar]

1-2 ingredients and 3-4 FAVORED is generally a pretty good and easy to setup way to play. I prefer 2 ingredient focused picks (aka two squirtle or like squirtle+eevee. probably not eevee+eevee though) and 3 double berry favored if I can swing it.

[odd berry]

i noticed you were the only one rating people's mons so I decided to step up and learn how to decide which mons are good lmao

[blissful mortar]

no worries lol

I think ingredient list is nice to find a really good one but probably not (usually) more important than like skills or nature until we optomize cooking and know more. High value stuff nice though so like it can be an extra bonus on top of a good mon or help a just okay one out 100%

[warm smelt]

It's so crazy to see other people's tier lists and how different they are (uploaded today)

[obtuse loom]

Someone made a good point on the sub

Why Lucario over Primeape?

[final mason]

the magnemite, magneton, and magnezone all being in different tiers lol

[warm smelt]

Hi Qril

[blissful mortar]

Bro based but sad togepi. No idea how I feel about half the cast in S tier though lmao.

It's such a weird tier list

Ditto in F is stupid there are a lot of really dumb things here

But like I get the attempt and they nailed a chunk of the good things ig 💅

[final mason]

ill give him the benefit of the doubt and say he doesnt know the new stuff

but that only excuses like half the list 🤐

[blissful mortar]

I would say a majority of players don't know half the info in this server/mathcord or even serebii

A lot of word of mouth it's a pokemon game and low info presented too

[final mason]

i like to lurk here to get the knowledge, surely that will help

I think once the mathcord site goes up it'll help people a lot

It did with unite, mostly

[hazy turtle]

thats p cracked

[final mason]

I still see some questionable builds on ranked in that game

[blissful mortar]

Ye

[warm smelt]

I hope the pokemon presents on the 8th showcases sleep

[blissful mortar]

Unite DB though def culled the actually horrendous sets though a million percent. Probably like 90% on ladder sets were fixed to some extent lmao

[final mason]

First event announcement

[final mason]

wise glasses assault vest cinderace instalocking jungle

I tried playing unite today but I just kept getting put in the Asian server with lots of lag

[warm smelt]

Sleep day event

they give us one pokebiscuit

[final mason]

I definitely learned a lot today after being in this server

[blissful mortar]

I hope you enjoy staying here meta 🙂

Just stay away from my number one spot on the leaderboard and we're cool

[final mason]

[astral veldt]

Matchcord?

[blissful mortar]

For pokemon unite we had a discord group dedicated specifically for numbers, data gathering, and optimization called mathcord. The owner of mathcord (qrill you might have seen them around) made another one called Sleep Mathcord 🙂 they love this game and want to get something equivalent up and running for pokemon sleep

A gathering hup (plus a website) dedicated to facts, spreading correct info, and optimal play etc.

[vernal orbit]

You can't do that, at least in 1 sleep, it doesn't allow the same Incense to be used in the second slot

[hazy turtle]

unlucky

just 1 sat 1 sun then

[main mauve]

Why isn't this pinned?

[vernal orbit]

cause a moderator needs to pin it

[blissful mortar]

ooop

there we go

I kinda forget we should pin that each update lmao

[torn whale]

Typhlosion has the highest carry capacity actually

[tardy wing]

Is there an explainer to the tier list? Like, why is Butterfree so high up on the tier list?

[torn whale]

It was in one of the tier updates, too far back to find now

[torn whale]

@blissful mortar you missed this one 😜

Well whoever tagged the v9 one technically but eh

[fickle perch]

natures were fixed in this update I think

or at least those that affect energy, because two of my team members didn't recover 100% after a 100% sleep

amongst other things this means their energy addition is still trash lol

because I went to sleep with more than 0% on each of my mons and my ER- natures recovered up to 88%

even if they didn't start at 0

[torn whale]

Has a lot going for it. Early evolution means it can capitalize on the evo bonuses earlier than most, great base stats on top of that, useful main skill, bug being a fairly limited type so the berry specialty is quite nice

[tardy wing]

So if I get multiple Caterpies / Metapods, then I could fill the rest of my team with ingredients?

[torn whale]

Well it depends on your Snorlax's favs ofc

But if you wanna pop a training incense or smth that'd work

[tardy wing]

That leads me to my next question, should I be focusing on ingredients or berries? I feel like I’m splitting my team between them and ending up at a net loss

[torn whale]

Early game berries is easier, but if you need an ingredient mon to be able to make a meal each session so be it

You still want to be cooking every chance you get for missions

[tardy wing]

Ahhh okay, that makes a lot of sense

Thank you for the help!

[blissful mortar]

guichi

[tardy wing]

I just went to make a new team and only have two berry mons that are my Snorlax’s favourite rip

[blissful mortar]

Yah aether butterfree we can get at level 8 😛

and has good frequency/capacity/skill and honey is used in lots of meals

goated mon

[tardy wing]

I did see that, I was taken aback

There’s a tier list of berries, right?

[torn whale]

It's more like the less mons have access to a berry the more desirable it is

[tardy wing]

Ofc, just like how Gengar is the only ghost type avaliable rn

I more meant each of them have different values I think

I remember seeing something, but I really don’t recall what’s best

FOUND IT

it’s pinned in general

[blissful mortar]

pog

[neat elk]

Maybe but no one has a typhlosion to prove it RIGHT NOW. Tier list should be the "current meta". Like any other games

[torn whale]

We have the data for it though?

[neat elk]

I can show you my 26 limit butterfree with no subskills

[torn whale]

Wait it starts at 16?

[neat elk]

But like I said most people can't get it right now

[torn whale]

Oh did you just evolve once?

[blissful mortar]

butterfree starts at 16 ye

[neat elk]

Once

[blissful mortar]

double check but pretty sure

[torn whale]

Oh could've sworn it was in the 20s

[blissful mortar]

spknm butterfree

?spkmn butterfree

[torn whale]

Yeah there ya go

[blissful mortar]

we pray it doesn't take ages to show up

[torn whale]

https://www.serebii.net/pokemonsleep/pokemon/butterfree.shtml

[blissful mortar]

last night it took like 5 minutes to pull up umbreon no joke

oh it is 21

WAIT

that means you get capacity boost once?

[torn whale]

Wdym

[blissful mortar]

@neat elk explain

[torn whale]

No mcmandin started with mrtapod

[blissful mortar]

oh

sad

I thought he like broke something weird

[blissful mortar]

If that team is slamming all bugs would you mind getting a caterpie -> buterfree next ideally?

[torn whale]

I'm working on that but so far away on candy

[blissful mortar]

I've been meaning to see if second evolution has same bonuses when doing triple stage or if it is the different

[neat elk]

This is my ingredients magnet s team

[torn whale]

Need 65 and I used all my reserves on houndour 💀

[neat elk]

Just caught a slakoth

Will update the thread

With an inventory up l as level10

[neat elk]

My caterpies were terrible and I want this butterfree to activate and drop me some cacaos often

[torn whale]

Fair, it's gonna be cracked with all those multipliers

Like if you got that going the 1 less evo bonus doesn't matter

*much

[neat elk]

It already is but Eevee seems like a sleeper

[torn whale]

Just wait till you get leeks and tails into the pool

[neat elk]

One of my eevees activated it's maim skill 3 times yesterday

The other twice

[blissful mortar]

I think eevee is really good at our current levels

[neat elk]

Skill specialty with ingredients magnet s, both skill triggers and positive skill for nature might be the best ingredients mon

[torn whale]

I saw your storage kept hitting max lol

[neat elk]

Yeah kept clicking

[blissful mortar]

it has not bad frequency at all and ye skill specialist magnet is really goodge i think

[neat elk]

But sold some milk

[blissful mortar]

It triggers like noticeably more than the others right

not just today?

[neat elk]

Yeah but I only go every 4 hours on the app so the nerf won't really affect me that much

[blissful mortar]

no i wanted to know about the skill trigger rate being better cause specialist

just was wanting to double check

[neat elk]

Seems to be activating more after I log in

That's when I start recording

[torn whale]

Think Red means like compared to Butterfree is it activating more?

[neat elk]

Yes butterfree only activated once yesterday I think

[blissful mortar]

kk. Curious about MOST days

but good to know for today

[neat elk]

I'll try to continue recording just after i log on so i can check back myself

[warm smelt]

Wait they nerfed berry gathering?

[blissful mortar]

They nerfed energy. It might have nerfed gathering indirectly. Idk if it was because of the energy nerf or if it was stealth nerf or an inintended bug when they touched energy

no idea but it's not an "official" nerf they didn't talk about it tmk

[warm smelt]

Interesting

[eager slate]

skill specialty mon with magnet S is eevee right

mine aint bad, it has both triggers and the nature is OK (not negative ingredient or skill), also has ingredient finder S for lv25

i just havent seen it activate that often

[neat elk]

I think it works well when you're not in the app as often. I tend to only log in every 4-5 hours mainly for mean

Mealtimes to feed snorlax

[eager slate]

yeah i normally do the same

[heavy orbit]

so i got a really good ghastly with helper speed up but energy recovery down.. i thought it doesn't matter but it wakes up with 80% only

[blissful mortar]

Energy got changed today

[heavy orbit]

can you elaborate

[blissful mortar]

I was looking for the message earlier so i could link it but it's buried

Before today: sleeping to 100 drowsy power got you 100 total energy
After nerf today: sleeping to 100 drowsy power gets you 80

I think this is them pushing a "balance" on energy. Energy down nature was too low cost and the energy mons were pretty bad

now we might have reasons to run them

Also might have indirectly nerfed gathering across the board we think higher energy correlates with gathering

[heavy orbit]

i slept 100% and my mons had 98ish when i checked except the energy down nature one