Blue stake rework

[slate bluff]

• Lose $1 for each card discarted on the last discard

Basically the same penalty for the last discard as the current version, but without being oppressive.
I think this change would at least make it more fun and strategic than simply not having the last discard.

[tardy nova]

but isn't this like a dead run anyway?

[tame oriole]

This doesn't fix the key problem with blue stake though. People don't like it because limiting discards makes it difficult to play big hands. This in turn makes pair and high card the most effective hands for high stakes which makes the game less interesting. Your idea would fundamentally improve blue stake by giving the player more flexibilty, but the gain doesn't fix the issue blue stake poses to the game's balance.

[slate bluff]

In my opinion, the stakes that work by progressive unlocking (white -> red -> green -> ...), it's more important to learn to use all the game mechanics than simply adding difficulty, since it makes you understand this makes you a better player and allows you to pass the other stakes more easily. To understand better my point:
Red Stake: With this one, you'll probably start really using tags, since it's the most intuitive to the stake modifier. It also forces you to try to maximize your hands if don't skip first blind.
Green/Purple Stake: These make you use more deck modification, using more tarots, since you need the mult and chips. I think that from this stake onwards you really appreciate the potential of hand effects since you want more planets to get more chips, you want the dollars to be able to buy more tarots or jokers, you need the steel to be able to pass the ante scale. Before, you could not spend so much on these effects because you simply did not need them that much.
Red, Orange and Gold: These teach you to spend your dollars on good jokers and not buy just any old thing, which also help the generation of interest, also, each of these stickers forces you to be more strategic, depending on their effect (like as when you do pivot jokers).

Blue stake: In its current state it doesn't learn anything, at most to reduce the deck but green and purple already fulfill that function, this one is simply restrictive, with the version suggest it would force you to save dollars so that the stake ability doesn't penalize you so much, which also helps you manage interests better (which I think is important since the next antes this mechanic is very important), it also helps you try to play a good hand instead of the best possible hand, to take fewer risks, this makes you win more times, the current blue stake already has this, but being very restrictive, since if you don't get the cards you needed you simply lose, with this version however, you can make another discard but you will lose money, which invites you even more to not risk so much by discarding fewer cards to lose less gold.

[tame oriole]

How often do you play gold stake? Econ is already hellish by then. Another econ stake is unnecessary and still contributes to the issue that all things discards, both jokers and hands are disproportionally affected. $5 a round to use all of your discards, while not equivalent to -1 discard still makes that discard largely unusable. Playing large hands that require that discard is analogous to needing to have nearly 2 rentals. As I said, this reduces the problem, but blue stake needs to find something besides discards to nerf. Stakes aren't just there to help players learn mechanics, their effects stick around to the next stake. The annoying little change on blue stake continues to ruin variety across all the stakes after. I like to play gold stake, but being largely limited to smaller hands in order to win reduces gameplay.

[lime jacinth]

black stake is distinctly missing from your analysis

[tame oriole]

I think that was just a typo, Red is listed twice and in the second instance it doesn't make any sense while black stake does.

[lime jacinth]

i mean red stake helps you learn econ management

[slate bluff]

Yep, just a mistake

[slate bluff]

Probably don't need more to the economy management (all stakes affect this to different degrees), but I still think it's important that the new effect helps you understand some mechanics. I think what Localthunk was trying to do was encourage deck reduction through tarots or jokers, we could start from there. The blue stake rework will be done in a big update that will bring a lot of new people and many will return to the game, if it were just a balance update this probably wouldn't matter so much.

idk, maybe I'm giving this much more importance than it really has, I mean, maybe the analysis I did wasn't even an intencional design (although the stakes work by progressive unlocking so I'm sure it wasn't accident)

[lime jacinth]

I think the big issue with Blue Stake is that it's tied to discards

This doesn't fix that

[slender tulip]

it's restrictive to bigger hands, which suffer from being inconsistent already while not doing anything to the smaller ones

this doesn't help solve that issue

[wary moat]

yeah this punishes econ if youre using a 3rd discard which is ehh

econ is very important early

this also doesnt teach players anything. you still run pairs because youre not gonna tap into that 3rd discard

because why play a hand that put you down money for playing it

in a funny way id be less likely to use riskier strats if the 3rd discard costed me money than if i didnt have it. psychological bias i guess

[warm zinc]

Wé

Eel

L

The hell phone

Anyway well it does teach you can use hands as makeshift discards i suppose

But itd blue stake so ehhhh i dont think the player needs to kesrn that at that time

[wary moat]

i feel its just very punishing that if you wanna use a 3rd discard youre paying for it big

which doesnt solve the pair preference issue

[grim snow]

Holy yap

[slate bluff]

I think it would work better if the last discard cost $2 or $1, so don't matter if you discard 1 or 5 cards, always cost you the same and it would be easier to make hard hands work, even so it's probably better if it doesn't interact with discards