Reverting 8 Ball

[dark fiber]

I was looking through the wiki when I saw 8-Ball's old effect:
"Create a planet card if 2 or more 8's are scored"
This seems way better than the current effect, imo

[stiff karma]

unless you have something like constellation random planets seems kinda weak bc you cant build towards it
while on the other hand tarots are (almost) always useful

[fluid glacier]

1. 8 Ball is actually solid as is
2. Random planets are so dookie and needing to play a pair of 8s is so difficult for how little reward there is

[dark fiber]

Pairs?

[fluid glacier]

Yeah but for a random planet?

[near thorn]

random planets are worse than rsndom tarots

[idle loom]

so you are comparing "an 8 ball that sometimes becomes useful/sometimes life saver to an 8 ball that depends solely on luck if its a planet that you even use"?

[long peak]

no, because its just a random planet card. Do you REALLY want that 4oak card when you're building for Straights?

i actually like new 8 ball

sue me

[near thorn]

new 8 ball is fun

[dark fiber]

To be fair it is luck based anyway, and I would always take the guaranteed planet over a 1/4 chance for a tarot

Worst case scenario, it is sold for pocket change

[fluid glacier]

Thing is it’s worst case scenario 1/9th of a time since you only care about a single planet type

Meanwhile the average tarot is pretty strong or at least has some value

[near thorn]

which is worse than even just getting a suit changer since you can use it to make blackboard even more reliable as an example

[long peak]

nononono

this is luck based too

i don't think you get it

it's a random planet card

how is that gonna be useful

mm besides constellation i suppose

[near thorn]

do they know why blue seals used to be shit

[tepid kelp]

random planet cards will always be awful, as they have a very low chance of being useful. The only reason high priestess is ok is that you can sell the planet cards. 8 ball is fine as is, and if you want to buff it, then I'd focus on small tweaks instead of massive reworks

[dark fiber]

I do not

[near thorn]

they used to do this

[dark fiber]

How about if it gives the planet card for the played hand?

[rugged prawn]

put simply there’s a reason things are reworked

[rugged prawn]

thats just a repeat of blue seals

blue seals are broken

imagine if you could proc them multiple times per round

[dark fiber]

However, it will still have the restriction of requiring 2 or more 8s in the hand, which will offset that

[near thorn]

it's not too hard to play a pair of 8s

[long peak]

This is an instant pick bro

[long gorge]

Create a 8 ball if 2 or more tarot cards are scored

[tranquil sierra]

holy bump time
Instead of 1 in 4 chance to create a random Tarot card, it's 1 in 8 chance to create a random Spectral card

8 Ball's artwork gives me the vibe that it could be a Spectral card joker so I had an idea of reworking it thematically

[rugged prawn]

sounds horrendous

similar to seance, by the time you can proc it consistently you dont really need or want the spectrals it would give

i mean sure occasionally spectrals can be clutch but thats not what makes a joker good

[tranquil sierra]

8 Ball doesn't seem that good to me because it's the weakest of quite a few other Jokers that do Tarot generation and that causes it to not have much of an identity

[rugged prawn]

it kinda powers itself

any tarotgen is good, and you gotta remember this one is a common

the 1 in 4 is a little sucky vut random arcanas are nice and its not too unlikely to be awful

8s are also pretty okay in terms of ranks because fibonacci yay

[wintry thunder]

You can't even retrigger the old effect in a single hand unlike the new one, yeah no old 8 ball's effect is ass

[long peak]

kid named superpostion:

8 ball is fine

it's amazing and helps you get even more 8s

[autumn abyss]

flawed logic, the reason this is an issue for seance is because proccing it at all usually requires substantial setup in the first place, this would simply be down to rng and would be genuinely feasible to hit a few times without actively building towards it

not that i think this is necessarily a good idea but

conflating this with seance is misleading at best

[long peak]

yeah i suppose they are 2 different arguments

[rugged prawn]

you can draw a straight flush randomly

they’re in the deck by default

its just unlikely

its usage is very similar to seance in practice

either hope you get a random spectral and then get rid of it or build into it and hardly get any use out of it after

i guess the first use case is a little more likely but still not a good joker

[autumn abyss]

this would be so much more versatile than seance is in so many ways i genuinely do not understand your logic

[rugged prawn]

i realize its more versatile

but at the end of the day its usage is similar and its not really much better

[long peak]

sorry, this is better than seance?

no way

it's maybe more useful to have spectrals when building for 8s, but just barely

honestly not really

tarots are better for building for a rank

unless of course you get lucky on

[rugged prawn]

yes