Double Deck

[rare vault]

Have 2 different decks that you can choose to draw between. Tarot and spectral booster packs are set to one deck when purchased (e.g jumbo tarot booster pack has a red mark with a 1 on it)

Standard packs show the cards and which deck they will go in

So you choose between both decks after every hand and discard by simply tapping them when they highlight waiting for you.

[rare vault]

Unlocked when all 150 jokers are unlocked maybe?

[twilit jacinth]

Doesn't feel very vanilla

[rare vault]

Yeah but its balenced and peak

I mean

Nothing new would feel vanilla

But sometimes you must try chocolate or strawberry

Amd whiden your palatte

[twilit jacinth]

Not exactly, feeling vanilla and being vanilla are very different things

This feels like mod territory

[warm eagle]

Most vanilla concepts don't introduce their own new mechanics, just mess with, or synergize with, mechanics already in the game

This adds smth entirely new- and smth that wouldn't fit into the rest of the games overarching mechanics

[rare vault]

So then how is it possible for plasma deck to be made?

[regal kelp]

This isn't that far from vanilla, for reference, a voucher, director's cut adds its own UI element to fulfill its purpose, this would be as simple as adding a little ↪️ button underneath the deck.

People have a really weird mindset about how nothing can add any new mechanics or it is modded. Things that add excessive new mechanics, are overly complex or have conflicts in theming with the game are certainly not vanilla, but this is easily implementable with less mechanical changes than plenty of pre-existing jokers, decks, and vouchers. Games regularly add new things, it is ok for them to change more than just new content.

[lapis shuttle]

plasma isnt really a over arching mechanic

[regal kelp]

The part about tarot and sepctral booster packs being pre-assigned to a deck is bad, but that is easily circumvented by simply applying them to the equipped deck.

[warm eagle]

I've suggested the addition of stuff like Token consumable types- i think adding an entire 2nd deck Tainted Lazarus style is a bit much to me; and I just firmly disagree with the "less mechanical change" part- the worst offender i can think of is Plasma or Erratic- which is just RNG starting, or addition and averaging- neither of which change the actual mechanics, so much as adding an additional layer on top

[warm eagle]

This would make me much more amenable to the idea

Since it removes the bulk of what feels really really out of place to me

The idea of playing with two decks seems neat- I dislike how you want to severely seperate them in terms of packs and cards, especially since your deckrixing is already halved

I'm not noping this but.. eeehhh

[leaden harbor]

Tbh I think green deck is the best example of a weird vanilla deck

[regal kelp]

The change then comes down to on the player side, a single swap button and the the developer side, logic for 2 decks, which is actually fairly easy since only one can be equipped at once, you just store an extra table and swap with the real deck.

[leaden harbor]

Plasma plays the most differently, but isn’t that mechanically different

[rare vault]

It would be in the suggestions

[lapis shuttle]

noooo?

[rare vault]

Its almost like a challenge deck

[warm eagle]

Ehh I put it on par with Plasma as one makes a bigger change to thr active gameplay- and one is just "more unique"

[lapis shuttle]

more unique is weird though

[warm eagle]

Green usually feels like an afterthought to me- even the idea of not being penalized for spending lots

[rare vault]

No its cool

[leaden harbor]

I really don’t get the argument everyone loves to make where you can’t say something feels modded because X thing also feels modded, like that doesn’t change my opinion

[rare vault]

Nobody wants like +3 hands -3 hand size🤮

[warm eagle]

I just meant that it feels like a good fit; it's mechanical changes aren't as weird on paper

[warm eagle]

Huh???

Im aaying they're both equally weird to me, not green isn't weird

[rare vault]

Do you like double deck?

[leaden harbor]

Not to you

[regal kelp]

I agree, I think the idea needs adjustments, but I just wanted to steer the conversation to be about the idea itself and not how vanilla it is.

[warm eagle]

Oh my bad gamer

[rare vault]

What adjustments?

[regal kelp]

I think that it would need to somehow provide some extra deckfixing potential to be ok.

[lapis shuttle]

just have two decks switched with a button

and then have what ever the current deck is have everything applied to it

[leaden harbor]

No, I feel like you’d just ignore one of the decks tbh

[warm eagle]

Seperate our jokers into two seperate builds too/j

[rare vault]

Thats true

[leaden harbor]

This deck feels like only a downside with no upside to switch between them

[rare vault]

Could be a cool deck anyway tho

Think about the reuse of cards

Making a four of a kjnd would be easier

[lapis shuttle]

i mean you could have a scoring and a econ deck

[rare vault]

Harder hands become much more reachable

[rare vault]

Yes

[regal kelp]

So first of all, tarots and spectral packs, unlike the original idea can be applied to whatever deck the player equips.

Perhaps you get 2 packs, whenever you buy one(not buffon packs), and you open it, apply it to the first deck and then open it again(it gives different tarots/spectrals) and apply it to the second deck.

That way you also can't abuse the extra deckfixing to just focus on one deck

[lapis shuttle]

so you draw like 5 red seal glass cards and then switch decks and have gold cards fill the rest of the hand size

[leaden harbor]

Mirror Deck - consumable cards have a backside (different planet/tarot/spectral on the other side), but the cards flip every round (no other way to flip)

You buy a Tower and see there’s a Death on the other side, so you hold it for a round before using it

[lapis shuttle]

i mean 2 packs feels weird (red card am i right) but yeah as we said earlier just have it apply to the equiped deck

[rare vault]

Maybe ill increase hand size by 1

[warm eagle]

I think we need to force a deck swap tho

[leaden harbor]

Yeah, force the player to interact with the gimmick

[rare vault]

Just discard 5 and pick thhe other deck

[warm eagle]

Otherwise, it'll only ever come into play whenever you're already doing exceedingly well on the first deck

[regal kelp]

Well, it wouldn't quite be two packs, it would be more like what happens when you skip a charm pack with a double tag. You buy one pack, it plays the animation and draws cards from your first deck, it then opens again and draws cards from your second deck. It still only counts as one booster though.

[warm eagle]

Hwh would i ever want to draw from a more diluted deck unless it's better than my first one?

[rare vault]

Ok guys i have an idea

[warm eagle]

And if my second deck is better, why use my first?

[leaden harbor]

Thoughts gamers?

[lapis shuttle]

i mean the most interesting mechanics can happen if you can switch at will

[rare vault]

Deck 1 has odd ranked cards wirh queens, deck 2 has everything else

[warm eagle]

We need both

[regal kelp]

My idea for this was the 2 packs idea above your message.

[warm eagle]

Ik i keep comparing to T. Lazarus, but its a good example even if the type of game is different-

He is forced to swap, gets extra items if manually swapping

[rare vault]

Did yall even read the idea..

[warm eagle]

Same issue just now both decks can be fixed at once- unless you're guaranteed the same tarots, there'll always be reason to stick to the one deck that's more deck fixed

[leaden harbor]

I’d still stick with one deck and have abandoned deck+

[warm eagle]

This makes the problem even worse because now swapping decks mid-blind will severely hurt 4oak making

[rare vault]

They both have face cards

[lapis shuttle]

how can you make manual switching and forced switching compatible

i am trying my best to think about it but i cant find a way

[rare vault]

How about

They and forced to alternate

Instead of picking then

[lapis shuttle]

then the most interesting things you can do are gone

[rare vault]

Hm

[lapis shuttle]

and you might as well be playing one deck

[warm eagle]

Alternating per blind beaten and allowing two swaps per ante

Wait

Ehhh

[rare vault]

No the possibility of cards to get are narrower

[warm eagle]

At two you can do every blind as deck A

At one you cant capitalize off the ability to switch consistently

[rare vault]

Oh guys i have idea

How about

You have

2 separate hands

Both size 8

[lapis shuttle]

what if its if boss blind is beaten with cards from both deck you get something?

[rare vault]

No?

Idk

[warm eagle]

But if you don't force switching there's 0 reason to interact with the mechanic in a run that isn't already thriving- like T. Laz.

[rare vault]

But yeah make one even with kings and jacks and the other one odd with queens

Then you get a good chance

[lapis shuttle]

you are set on that idea

and frankly it does not fix the problems

and makes the others worse

[rare vault]

Hm

Maybe

[warm eagle]

Idk, maybe the idea itself is flawed. What if we went the opposite way

TWO Joker rosters, each a max of 4

[rare vault]

0 decks?

[rare vault]

Oh

Thats actually

Really good

[warm eagle]

At the end of each blind, your roster swaps, and you can swap once an ante for free

Allows you to ride the lines between econ generation, utility and jokers; as well as promoting solid deckfixing that works with both sets of jokers

[rare vault]

Make it so you cant move jokers between the 2?

[warm eagle]

Correct

The two never exist at the same time

So a Joker in A will never see B unless you sell it out of A

or you have showman

[rare vault]

Also can you swap rosters mid round?

But make it cost a discard

[warm eagle]

Once per ante, yes

At any time, without penalty, but only once.

[rare vault]

Discard?

[lapis shuttle]

with a button

[warm eagle]

You could farm more econ, but maybe you want to save it for the boss if your Joker rotation isn't lined up

[rare vault]

Just press the button and then press discRd

[rare vault]

Big blind is the real boss

[lapis shuttle]

what???

[warm eagle]

Idk the idea seems cool I just can't seem to put my finger on a good fix for the mechanic or even just concept of having two interchangeable sets of mechanics

[rare vault]

How about all cards have 1/6 chance of die

Like they kill yoy

You

🎮

[lapis shuttle]

i think if we encourage switching like Anaglyph Deck does for using a skip it would make it better

rewards a, o rogjt

[warm eagle]

I think that could work tbh

Skipping causing a swap makes it most useful for lining up your roster for bosses- while punishing you with less shops and money

I like that alot the nore i think about it

and it's a built in feature for balalala

[lapis shuttle]

yay!!!

i did it

we did it

i had anouther idea that was counter to the ideology i had for that one

where each round with out a skip subtracts a hand size and a swap would restore it (2 swap per round)