A joker that adds xMult to itself for every debuffed card “scored”

[vestal iron]

Like vampire where it gains a bit of mult each time. I think it would be fun as a deliberately weak/mediocre joker

[tight mulch]

Only really functions on boss blinds

And not even all of them

[vestal iron]

Yeah, but after playing the debuffed cards, the mult can stay, it doesn’t have to reset like campfire

Idk I just thought it would be interesting to actually get something out of debuffed cards, maybe a rare joker that could show up every now and again with a specific niche would make things interesting

[tight mulch]

This would be way too weak to like ever take

Like a mult matador

[vestal iron]

Not every new joker has to be the strongest.

Anyway, we’re just having fun out here

[hollow fiber]

Its too situational to scale though

It doesn't have to be the strongest it just has to be usable

[vestal iron]

Maybe like 0.2 or 0.25x mult added for each debuffed card. That would go up to 2.00x or 2.25x if you eg played a flush of diamonds whilst facing the window boss

Idk man I don’t make the game, I boot it up, play for 30 mins and come back later. I’m not super serious about this

[serene forge]

Id rather it be flat mult or chips

Idk Xmult seems like itd be harder to balance EV, especially since bosses are inconsistent; even at 0.2 this could realistically outscale legendaries on a half decent run

And at 0.1 id rather just have constellation which isnt as suffocated by RNG

[serene forge]

I agree with this sentiment though, debuffed card interactions would be very cool (both as in a way to create them as risk, or to profit off them)

[dark gazelle]

If most bosses had debuffed cards, sure maybe. But as is its way too few bosses

[serene forge]

Thats fair; and also why I added the note about wanting to be able to create them

Im pr sure awhile back I made a few pitches about that idea

[vestal iron]

Hit the road (with some deck fixing) ,Hologram, A photochad can all reach XMult similar to a Canio though. But yeah maybe it would work better as a flat mult or chips. But there’s already a lot chip and flat mult jokers, and not that much XMult. You need XMult to win most of the time, so even a mediocre Xmult at 0.1-0.15x per debuffed card could be helpful

But yeah, I agree that it could easy become really strong

[nocturne zephyr]

yall are being so hard on this idea I think it would be okay

only good during boss blinds where if you have a good enough run-winner you can use that as your last hand

[hollow fiber]

i mean i disagree on how fast canio scales as it personally outpaces the others you listed. and id like this idea more if there were jokers that made debuff cards or something along those lines

which gives you more ideas to work with if you have like 5 jokers that would make debuff cards and this then i think people would be less tough

[vestal iron]

Good point. Although, I can’t help but feel that there’s already jokers in the game that kinda stupid no? Like if Luchador, Cola, etc didn’t exist in the game, and someone pitched it for the game here people would say that’s dumb, bad idea. But they’re still in the game, and still have a niche to fill

[serene forge]

Photochad is on trigger, it's more comparable to Triboulet, which it is more limited than

Hit the road resets, and is limited by discards flat out. It does not scale past your current stats.

Hologram just takes a lot of setup, I can't really argue that one LOL

[serene forge]

These have controllable, but limiting factors

Your factor is currently "do i get the right boss(es?)" Which is NOT good as it leads to unpredictable scaling, and therefore a way too inconsistent payout

[vestal iron]

Good point, really goes to show how much thought goes into jokers that actually make it into the game. Although some bosses are limited to only show up on higher antes, which increases the chance of of getting a suit debuff boss but yeah I see your point

[serene forge]

Honestly, you have the right idea IMO

Most of the jokers are just basic game mechanics that either scale, have a limiting factor, or both

[serene forge]

See: Runner, Sixth Sense, Obelisk

Obelisk is honestly a decent comparison here. 0.2x mult per hand is worth NEVER playing your most played hand again.

Earning 0.5x mult per fully debuffed hand is roughly comparable to Obelisk scaling, but itd be limited to niche bosses

Earning 1x (0.2x per debuffed card) would be too high for it (IMO,) and would still be inconsistent

Ill stop yapping now, myb lol

[vestal iron]

0.1x it is then! Nah but seriously I do think there’s a good chance something gets done with debuffed cards at some point

[serene forge]

I really hope so@

Shameless self plug on tje topic of debuffs https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1367832427577213039

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1377380786268803204

[vestal iron]

those are creative wow. You’ve reminded me how bad I want that blue stake rework coming in the 1.1 this year

Anyways fingers crossed for debuffed cards to do something at some point sometime somewhere

[tight mulch]

Yeah but they have to have like

An ability to be strong

[vestal iron]

Respectfully, balance kinda gets thrown out the window as soon as someone mentions blueprint and brainstorm. Those would be considered stupid OP if they weren’t in the game, and suggested here. Also are you tying to say that crafty joker needs the ability to be strong too

You can just have weak stuff no?

[hollow fiber]

crafty joker is strong

[tight mulch]

Crafty and the other ones are not weak

A reliable source of early game chips/mult (I dont remember which one crafty is) is good

[hollow fiber]

i have taken it over blueprint once becuase i would have died if i didnt

[tight mulch]

Something like this is just too niche to function

[hollow fiber]

actually no it was droll joker

but still

[hollow fiber]

exactly

[dark gazelle]

Difference is that’s an early game joker, it has its place. This joker rarely has its place because of how infrequent card debuffs are

This is like Idol

Yeah, idol could be strong but it’s too rare it actually does something

[vestal iron]

True. But know, jokers like obelisk are in the game so, the bar for utility can’t be that high

[tight mulch]

Obelisk is really strong 💀

[vestal iron]

*But Yknow

[hollow fiber]

obelisk is good

[dark gazelle]

Thunk said before that matador has stinky design and is too variable in use, and this has even less bosses this works against

[vestal iron]

Matador gives you 8 dollars. It doesn’t help you win the blind, the idea is that this one does help, and benefits a bit. I know that this idea isn’t the best one, and there’s probably a reason why there’s not something similar in the game already, but hey, we’re just having fun discussion, I’m not about to argue every person on why this is great idea

[dark gazelle]

Matador isn’t exactly weak, it’s just kinda bad feeling when it does nothing vs some bosses.

[hollow fiber]

the way you word that sounds like econemy jokers are something you should never take becuase it doesnt help beat a blind (i know thats not what you mean)

and its flaw is its inconsestentcy which is what also effects this one.

[vestal iron]

Come on, it’s matador. When did I say that golden joker, mail in rebate, cloud nine wasn’t worth taking? Mail in rebate especially is surprisingly good

[tight mulch]

It’s not weak when it works but it rarely works so it’s weak overall

Oh ykw I should do

See the average money econ jokers give you a round

[hollow fiber]

i meant that your argueing this is good becuase its helps scoring and thats why its better than matador

i know it wasnt your arguement but like its how it read

[vestal iron]

Sorry if it was confusing, that might have been bad wording on my end. Matadors getting reworked anyway

So fingers crossed it’s end up better than it is now

[hollow fiber]

it defedently will be