#Scientific Notation Money
dim coral
e
craggy lark
f
latent peak
r
hushed cliff
what are you doing to all me money
long zenith
ok so we need 100 billion
dim coral
ok I need numbers on the amount of commons/uncommons/rares
granite gyro
ok so we need 100 billion
yep
dim coral
and I will write up a scuffed program to estimate the amount of loops itll take
one simulation should be enough bc law of large numbers and all that
subtle hemlock
Man this is so stupid, I'm so sorry.
granite gyro
i'll ctrl f on balatro.wiki
hushed cliff
16×4+2=66, subtract parking/vampire/vagabond/burnt, add sixth sense/seance, subtract glass/steel/lucky/stone
granite gyro
67 uncommons
but baseball is in the ctrl f
so 66
123-67 commons
19 rares
does that add up
long zenith
lets do a fermi estimation and say that getting however many of a joker you want will take at most 1 yr
dim coral
16×4+2=66, subtract parking/vampire/vagabond/burnt, add sixth sense/seance, subt...
subtracting steel is probably unrealistic
bc thats our joker technology
or scoring tech sorry
long zenith
lets ignore scoring
dim coral
we will need steels in the deck for setup to happen
hushed cliff
loop hanged man to get rid of the steels or something
craggy lark
we will need steels in the deck for setup to happen
wait why im dum
long zenith
lets ignore scoring
unless it means we play less hands
dim coral
loop hanged man to get rid of the steels or something
when would you kill the steels?
hushed cliff
does this have to be at killscreen
granite gyro
maybe baron without mime can get us far enough but idk
granite gyro
does this have to be at killscreen
no just enough to get emperor loop setup
hushed cliff
you could just have exactly enough steels to kill them all in an arcana pack right
granite gyro
maybe baron without mime can get us far enough but idk
i meant baron mime without steels
dim coral
you could just have exactly enough steels to kill them all in an arcana pack rig...
this is very insane luck
dim coral
i meant baron mime without steels
WAIT YOUR MIND
latent peak
wait i just realized
latent peak
if u score naninf do u lose???
dim coral
nope
long zenith
why are we talking about baron???
latent peak
oh
dim coral
why are we talking about baron???
you have to score in order to reach the setup
latent peak
then why not just use DNA instead of certificate and then make a bunch of kings
hushed cliff
why are we talking about baron???
you need to get to high ante to feasibly have all the tarots
latent peak
u dont need any steels
dim coral
OK so let me get the numbers correct
latent peak
oh wait u ned to get there in the first place ig
long zenith
you need to get to high ante to feasibly have all the tarots
lets assume you already have scoring tech
which took negligible time to do
latent peak
idk this is out of my league at this point imma just read
hushed cliff
lets assume you already have scoring tech
the problem was that we thought that scoring tech needed to have steels which adds steel joker to the joker pool
dim coral
money = (Mimes x Parking) x (Certi + DNA) right?
dim coral
and DNA + Certi will all have full blueprint power
long zenith
You can even just Wee to win anyway
ty
dim coral
because you can just move them to mime/parking after
granite gyro
ok apparently balatro.wiki is MISSING the rarity of sly-crafty jokers ðŸ˜
but i got the numbers
60 commons 66 uncommons 19 rares
latent peak
because you can just move them to mime/parking after
so smart
granite gyro
adds up to 145 as expected
dim coral
so uncommons we ignore stone lucky steel glass right
granite gyro
fuck i should check if they updated for 1.0.1 rarity changes too
dim coral
and commons we ignore golden ticket michel
granite gyro
they did not
hushed cliff
fuck i should check if they updated for 1.0.1 rarity changes too
61 commons 64 uncommons 20 rares in beta
granite gyro
we need showman to do this
dim coral
61 commons 64 uncommons 20 rares in beta
is that before culling for bad uncommons?
hushed cliff
is that before culling for bad uncommons?
no
after itd be 59 commons 60 uncommons 20 rares
i think
latent peak
oh are we not trying to get all jokers anymore lol
latent peak
ig that's easier
dim coral
ok beautiful
granite gyro
oh are we not trying to get all jokers anymore lol
for the colas we could hold everything but showman and colas because we only needed one cola at a time
dim coral
no the parking setup should be way easier
granite gyro
yeah
i'm guessing the only real issue timewise for the parking setup is gonna be animation speed
dim coral
OK accounting for bpbs I believe the formula is (bpbs/2)x(mime x parking) x ((bpbs) x (certi + DNA))
granite gyro
because it's $1 per animation
latent peak
i'm guessing the only real issue timewise for the parking setup is gonna be anim...
i feel like it'll def be setting up the jokers
animation won't take thattt long
latent peak
at least in relation to how long it takes to get the jokers
hushed cliff
OK accounting for bpbs I believe the formula is (bpbs/2)x(mime x parking) x ((bp...
this is probably negligible but right side is +7 right
cus of base hand size
dim coral
its 70/25/5% common uncommon rare right
hushed cliff
ye
granite gyro
you could add juggler + marble to the right hand size
which is probably not negligible actually
long zenith
it is though
granite gyro
you could add juggler + marble to the right hand size
*max(juggler, marble) i mean
long zenith
wait wait wait wait wait
dim coral
waaait bpbs is addition not mult
granite gyro
oh yeah was gonna mention that as well
hushed cliff
yeah
granite gyro
addition yeah
dim coral
you could add juggler + marble to the right hand size
marble adds to deck you wont draw it
long zenith
no marble joker adds cards which means if you have paradolia its face cards!!!!!
granite gyro
yeah
latent peak
wait so we're trying to get all jokers except showman? so you can control the joker spawns right
granite gyro
we need showman to get duplicates for everything
dim coral
ohhh yes juggler is in common pool! so it will outpace the handsize from DNA and certi!
dim coral
I need to write the formula down on paper
granite gyro
oh wait marble is uncommon though
latent peak
ohh i see now
granite gyro
that's still pretty impactful though
latent peak
u can do cola cus u sell it anyway
dim coral
oh wait marble is uncommon though
true so juggler isnt worth thinking about
granite gyro
u can do cola cus u sell it anyway
yep
granite gyro
true so juggler isnt worth thinking about
yeah only marble
dim coral
I should only think about marble count
hushed cliff
hand size is 8, -1, whichever is lower between juggler and marble, bpbs+certificate, bpbs+dma
granite gyro
i'm also gonna mention this sounds WAY more annoying to actually do than the cola strat
so cola strat might still be worth thinking about
dim coral
whaddahell I lost my pencil
granite gyro
if you gotta choose between doing one of these for months
dim coral
the thing is it could maybe be WAAAY faster
hushed cliff
or ig base hand size may as well be 52 with how many jugglers youd get
dim coral
cola strat is def better than temperance but it would still take years
latent peak
i'm also gonna mention this sounds WAY more annoying to actually do than the col...
i dont knoww, you have to get 100 billion and cola strat is not multiplicative in the same way as this
hushed cliff
so any additional cards you can get before the setup would make it faster
probably very negligibly
granite gyro
oh wait i was thinking of cola drunkard which is multiplicative but also doesn't work lol
because of the showman stuff
yeah cola by itself is still like maybe 15 years min that's true
hushed cliff
this is also all divided by how many hands you have right
minus 1 bc you need to spend one hand with bpbs on dna
craggy lark
just came back what's the best method as of now
granite gyro
this is also all divided by how many hands you have right
True in theory but i think you'd score too much
latent peak
mime + gold cards
granite gyro
actually no you can just sell every baron you get nvm
granite gyro
so multiply by burglars too
latent peak
DNA a bunch of gold cards
hushed cliff
also certificate would make 1/4 red seals and youd dna a red seal
hushed cliff
so divide by like...1.75?
latent peak
also certificate would make 1/4 red seals and youd dna a red seal
true
dim coral
also certificate would make 1/4 red seals and youd dna a red seal
oh shit this is huge
ugh this makes the math hard
granite gyro
oh yeah red seals affect it multiplicatively though
granite gyro
so roughly (2*DNA + 1.25*Cert + Marble) x (Parking) x (Mime) x (Burglar)
latent peak
Gold cards is basically +3 to the parking count
but this is pretty significant cus now you need thousands less parkings, unless im mistaken
dim coral
why 2*DNA?
hushed cliff
dna red seal
granite gyro
you can duplicate a red seal
dim coral
I think you always dupe mimes for scoring right
you dupe cert on roundstart and DNA on hand 1
latent peak
do red seals retrigger every time mime hits?
hushed cliff
theres no merit to duping burglar on round start is there
dim coral
no they dont
latent peak
i thought they only do the retrigger once
hushed cliff
do red seals retrigger every time mime hits?
no just once
granite gyro
I think you always dupe mimes for scoring right
it'd be half half on mime and parking
dim coral
it'd be half half on mime and parking
youd have way more parking
latent peak
yea lmao
dim coral
yeah red seals are just mime+1 ig
yep
craggy lark
im hella lost what's the strat to get the money
granite gyro
youd have way more parking
oh yeah because rarity oops
dim coral
still parking
hushed cliff
get a bunch of cards with certificate and dna, pareidolia oops mime parking
granite gyro
ok so (DNA + Cert + Marble) x (Parking) x (Mime) x (3*Burglar)?
dim coral
I figured out the equation without red seals
granite gyro
forgot the 3 on burglar before
dim coral
can I just ignore redseal plase
dim coral
its pretty negligible
latent peak
wait what is 3*burglar
dim coral
ok so (DNA + Cert + Marble) x (Parking) x (Mime) x (3*Burglar)?
this is what I have yeah
hushed cliff
spending all your hands
latent peak
burglar only works once tho right
hushed cliff
no
latent peak
you cant stack it
dim coral
I always forget how to use rand in python
latent peak
oh wait
granite gyro
BPBS is just added to everything but parking right
subtle hemlock
I always forget how to use rand in python
import random
latent peak
nvm
craggy lark
I always forget how to use rand in python
dawg how
dim coral
import random
I rmr that part LOL
subtle hemlock
random.random()
dim coral
listen Im stupid
craggy lark
just look it up if you need to
latent peak
hmm, so how are you going to use all your hands without winning though
hushed cliff
sell barons
granite gyro
yea sell everything that gives you score
latent peak
i see
granite gyro
it'll be ante like 20 or something
hushed cliff
ok am i crazy or is copying burglar better than copying certificate
bc burglar copy is triple the value and its on a much more underrepresented side of the equation
dim coral
wait you might be right?
latent peak
yes
latent peak
cus it's another multiplication rather than just addition
dim coral
yes youre right burg is better
latent peak
only problem with burglar is the animation
hushed cliff
should be negligible right
granite gyro
shouldn't be slower than animations without it i think
hushed cliff
since more hands means less needed cards
latent peak
hmm true
dim coral
youll only have like 10,000 burgs at most I think
latent peak
oh actually true
granite gyro
ig the animations do speed up over time but not enough to matter right
dim coral
I should get shot in the head for writing it this bad
latent peak
it might actually be faster with burglar strat
hushed cliff
yeah 99% of the animation would be at max speed anyway
dim coral
can you tell Im not actually a CS major
craggy lark
if it gets the job done it's fine
dim coral
thank you!
craggy lark
wait can't you just return the equation itself
latent peak
what's bpbs
hushed cliff
blueprint brainstorm
dim coral
~~wait can't you just return the equation itself~~
yes but I do it like this bc im weird
it makes my brain more happy
latent peak
ah
dim coral
negative is 0.003 correct?
latent peak
wait so pareidolia makes stone cards count as face cards too?
dim coral
ya
latent peak
that's actually pretty interesting
craggy lark
i mean stone card is a card
latent peak
i mean stone card is a card
never thought about it before though
craggy lark
i should probably get back to doing python lol
granite gyro
0.003 is actually so unfortunate i never knew it was so low lmao
gonna make the whole thing take 300 times longer
dim coral
is generating random numbers slow
fuck it Im too tired to optimize my code Im a python programmer
I dont know what optimization is
craggy lark
true
just try to half ass it in C+ or something
shouldn't be too hard to learn how to make functions and to operations
hushed cliff
this would take less time if they changed it so that mr bones dies for real
and cant show up again
craggy lark
but i like ma bones :(
dim coral
ok my generator is working but guys its NOT looking good
in 1 million generations it made um. 203 useful jokers
hushed cliff
huh
granite gyro
😠yeah negative chance and 150 joker pool is unfortunate
dim coral
yeah the thing is there are SO MANY whiffs
granite gyro
203 is actually like kinda close though isn't it
dim coral
the fact that only one common is good is tough
the random function or my math might be wrong but idk
hushed cliff
i mean youd only get 3333 negatives per million
dim coral
yes
hushed cliff
and of those 70% have a 58/59 chance to be useless
granite gyro
ok idk how many we need actually
dim coral
heuristically things look correct
craggy lark
i keep confusing e11 with undecillion
granite gyro
i was gonna type we only need 2000 but maybe it's more like 20000 given that some categories have more commmonly appearing jokers than others
hushed cliff
yeah i think there's going to be a very large number of reserved parkings
compared to anything else
granite gyro
yep
craggy lark
im seeing my old python projects and found lots of funny stuff
hushed cliff
by my math youd get 108 useful jokers per million on average
which would make 203 probably a statistically significant difference
i dont remember enough from ap stats to confirm
granite gyro
i'm gonna try mathing out how many judgements you'd need now that i know the negative and rarity chances
hushed cliff
the math in question if it needs double checking
dim coral
7847049
is the amount of judgments you would need to use
approximately
this is less than the temperance method by a lot right
hushed cliff
you only need 1600 useful jokers?
dim coral
you can hand check my math if you like
granite gyro
ðŸ˜
hushed cliff
desmos sweep
dim coral
143 BPBS, 262 Burglars, 253 Certs, 53 DNAs, 279 Marbles, 304 Mimes, 254 Parking,
granite gyro
ig i remove the 3/1000 term from everything and just multiply it by 1000/3 at the end
dim coral
ohhh my code has a bug
granite gyro
only 254 parking?
hushed cliff
yeah 254 parking is def wrong
dim coral
yeah my code has a bug
granite gyro
oh ic
dim coral
13860455
thats more like it
1 million judgments
ignore n and val
but wait actually thats too many DNAs now hmm
or maybe its not?
no yeah I think its all up to code just bc the rare pool is so small interesting
hushed cliff
yea rares are 5× rarer but 3× more likely to be the rare you want
so that checks out
craggy lark
we getting judged with this one
hushed cliff
i'll get back with what i get when my computer decides to work
dim coral
I did math manually and it checks out
14 million loops is an improvement right?
because temperance is 2e9 loops
granite gyro
yeah definitely
dim coral
this is approx 2e7 loops
granite gyro
and cola strat is like 6e8 if you get a $300 tag
dim coral
this strat is the truth
dumbest thing Ive ever done istg
I wonder if theres anything else we're missing tho
granite gyro
oh yeah i just realized mine is wrong it should be lower
i counted bpbs as one rare joker lol
dim coral
I searched long and hard but I think we got all the useful stuff
granite gyro
and also didn't multiply burger by 3
dim coral
wait so doesnt this mean you could loop for only one year
assuming a loop takes 2 seconds
granite gyro
yeah i think so LOL
ok which one of us wants to spend the next year doing this 😂
dim coral
get TKAZ to do it
hushed cliff
oh wait starting hand size isnt even negligible
dim coral
they brought it up first :3
hushed cliff
adding 52 to the number of cards brings it down to 12.4 mil
granite gyro
True...
dim coral
adding 52 to the number of cards brings it down to 12.4 mil
is 6 handcount negligible
granite gyro
adding 52 to the number of cards brings it down to 12.4 mil
oh yeah true because of the common jugglers
hushed cliff
is 6 handcount negligible
yes
dim coral
the problem is that loops would realistically take like 3 seconds
bc you have to sell the joker if its non neg or actively bad (aka baron, troub, andy, etc)
this would make a killer youtube video ngl
hushed cliff
can also confirm that red seals are negligible
granite gyro
this would make a killer youtube video ngl
IT WOULD
it would be an even better one if someone actually did it tbh but we'd have to wait a whole year for that
dim coral
that is not happening
granite gyro
maybe with a TAS? lmao
this whole discussion has genuinely made me want to look into how this game could be TAS'd now
hushed cliff
can also confirm that red seals are negligible
12,420,043 judgements accounting for everything
dim coral
ok but how many judgments for naneinf money
hushed cliff
dies
dim coral
the world explodes I think
why am I even trying to run this on my shitty unoptimized python script
hushed cliff
ok but how many judgments for naneinf money
2.7e81
dim coral
thank you
granite gyro
i guess the python script will be running for the next e70 or so years
dim coral
its SUCH a slow script it didng even get close
Im honestly surprised it takes so few jokers
on live patch this strat would take so so so much longer
hushed cliff
yea ive got that you get 422 parkings, 155 of each uncommon and 93 of each rare
which is 1.3k jokers
dim coral
yeah thats what my code spits out more or less
granite gyro
ok so
we should convince everyone that stone cards suck and marble should be common
hushed cliff
that would lower it to 11.3 million
would make it hard for juggler to keep up though
dim coral
wait shit guys
arent we kinda way off
you need to play 900 hands
there are not 900 cards
granite gyro
fuck that makes the math way harder LMAO
dim coral
listen Im a believer in heuristics
granite gyro
if we gotta consider how many cards are in your hand after each play
also some bpbs should be on cert now
maybe all
dim coral
yeah
dim coral
I think the heuristic solution is to put all the bps on cert and overshoot the money target
surprisingly even with 1.5e11 target and all bps on certificate I get 18M judgments
hushed cliff
im getting 14.2 mil
with all on certificate
but thats still almost 200 hands
so itd be going down
dim coral
yeah thats why I overshot the target
the sorta nice thing is that each card is addative on the previous ones money wise and not multiplicative
granite gyro
if we gotta consider how many cards are in your hand after each play
i think at worst this is gonna halve the money right?
hushed cliff
15.75 mil to hit 1.5e11
dim coral
uuuuuuuugh
hushed cliff
unless i got the red seal impact wrong
dim coral
how non negligible
hushed cliff
not very
dim coral
ok makes sense
hushed cliff
goes from 15.75 mil to 15.76 mil
dim coral
you could play all the non red seals is nice
hushed cliff
oh and the 6 hand size is even less negligible thats funny
not having that brings it to 15.79 mil
\left(5r+2u+52\right)\left(c\right)\left(2r+u+\frac{3r+\frac{2r+u}{4}}{5r+2u+52}\right)\left(3u+5\right)
cant send a full screenshot bc desmos moment but that's the equation i'm using if you copy paste it into desmos
with these variables
craggy lark
bruh what's all this meth for
granite gyro
Expected number of Judgements needed to get scientific notation money
hushed cliff
ok i stitched together a screenshot bc it was bothering me
craggy lark
Expected number of Judgements needed to get scientific notation money
wait balatro and meth are linked with each other
hushed cliff
i believe youd get the non heuristic answer by subtracting the triangle number of 3u+5 from the left part
i dont know how to do that though
or no thatd be a very negative number
you subtract the quotient of 3u+5's triangle number and 3u+5 itself
i think
apparently dividing a number's triangle number by itself always gives you half of that number plus 0.5
that's convenient
hushed cliff
ok i believe this is the full formula
and i'm getting 15.49 mil judgements needed on average
oh just realized the mime part needs a +1 lol
that lowers it to 15.47 mil
craggy lark
someone make this a meme
latent peak
sheesh
dim coral
The sell card would have to sell for 6,500 to match the loop count of judgment parking
It would be faster per loop tho which is non negligible, so heuristically maybe 3000 sell price per card is needed
But yeah inflation could be faster, getting to a 10k sell price might be realistic
The problem is how expensive rolling gets
craggy lark
chaos dupe?
craggy lark
i mean buy and sell chaos lol
it helps with both the buying and the reroll cost
the only problem rn is that you'd either have to do this random seed or just mod the effect in which is possible
long zenith
lmao what have i done...