#Daily Discussion #29 - Seance

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

steel bramble
marble condor
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Seance is cool

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if you can constantly trigger it it’s great

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otherwise it gets meh 🫤

narrow fox
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its a win more joker

lunar island
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Spectrals in consumables are fun

cold ice
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Oh hail naw

narrow fox
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i tried doing a couple magic deck runs with suit changers and fool into the suit changer

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and you can get straight flushes pretty damm consistent

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but on most runs you can just not use this

cold ice
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Meh overall in my opinion spectrals just aren't strong enough to suggest a strush build, and this is a insanely specific joker to get

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Although I'm scared for perkeo tech

marble condor
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perkeo is going to be insane with this

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“infinite sigil”

cold ice
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Tbh spectrals kinda mid now

narrow fox
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too early and you might not have the setup to find the straight flush and late and you might not be able to sacrifice a joker slot for util

cold ice
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In late game, spectrals hard fall off,

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A lot of spectrals help buff early game

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Like ankh hex sigil and ouija

narrow fox
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Oujia is just bait

cold ice
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Ouija is my beloved

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4oak never screws me

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😅

steel bramble
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ouija's great if you don't bite off more than you can chew

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3oak is just fine :)

cold ice
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My favorite is double ouija

narrow fox
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7 hand size hurts a lot if you need to find 5 card hands

cold ice
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Who said handsize is helpful

narrow fox
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if you are playing 4 hand cards and below it can be a option

cold ice
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I mean

narrow fox
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or if you have hand size from other sources

cold ice
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I had a level 30ish 4oak

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With ouija 8s

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And fibbonacci once

narrow fox
marble condor
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ikr

narrow fox
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but orbital rarely show up late

cold ice
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Meh

narrow fox
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and even less likely that it is a okay hand

cold ice
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The only bad hands to get are like

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Strush

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And that's it

marble condor
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unless ur running strush

narrow fox
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if you have 30 levels in high card i guess it would still be good

cold ice
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I don't like how you diss HC

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😭

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Banner hard carries with good basemult

narrow fox
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i love high card, just wish there was even more synergy, like a joker that would do xmult for every cardslot unused in your played hand

cold ice
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I mean

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Fair enough

narrow fox
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so 5 cards hands would be 1x, 4=2x, 3=3x, 2=4x and high card would be a x5 mult

cold ice
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Ig for now we have Steelcard spam

narrow fox
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thats a pretty good one

marble condor
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splash exists too

cold ice
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Banner is just better

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For hc

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Unless you have 5 different suit/rank RPGs

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And also dusk

wary plaza
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Not a fan of this card ngl. I totally can see how it would be good, but you basically need 4 fingers to make it viable. Most of my experience with this joker dumbs down to: I buy a spectral pack, use a Wraith, then get disappointed when I get a rare that I basically can't get any use out of

woven finch
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I once got double holo seances early in a run with 4 fingers and hologram. Every cryptid was awesome.

lean rivet
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It feels much harder to make work than superposition, and that already feels like an enormous headache to make work. It does feel like you need a straight or flush "helper" (i.e. 4 fingers or shortcut) to even make it work once, but sometimes it does very, very silly things for your build

woven finch
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yeah, it only works on already-ridiculous builds

narrow fox
silent kite
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ı'll always tryna make seance work but as if now i only made 1 working build with seance its hard but satisfying

minor chasm
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  • First, building around straight flushes are generally bad. When you convert most of your cards into a single suit, you don't have a reason to play straight flushes other than to proc Séance. At that point you can just play flush houses which has a stronger base mult. The only other way of getting straight flushes without mass card conversion is getting the support jokers for straights and flushes (Four Fingers, Shortcut, Smeared Joker, etc.) that don't score you any points (unless the jokers themselves score through Baseball Card and Foil/Holo/Poly). Meanwhile Flush Houses don't demand such, you can just aim for scoring jokers instead of support.
  • Second, the effect itself is meh for straight builds. Ouija is VERY bad unless you're gonna pivot to 5OAK, Ankh and Hex can kill your run unless received early, Cryptid is practically useless for straights unless the cards have useful effects (steel/purple or blue seal), Familiar, Grim, and Incantation are RNG if the cards gained are of the suit you're building around, Immolate can be counterproductive depending on if your hand is mostly filled with cards you don't want to later convert to another suit, and Deja Vu wants to be duped which unless you're gonna strength them into separate card values aren't going to be spammed much on. This leaves Talisman, Aura, Wrath, Sigil, Ectoplasm, Trance, and Medium (excluding Black Hole and Soul due since they're not in the demo and we don't know what Black Hole does) as generally the most useful spectral cards for straight flushes. That makes half of the spectral cards undesirable (barring the specific scenarios where some mentioned above are useful, i.e. when you have steel cards dupable with Cryptid or cards to burn with Immolate). If the effect is this meh, do you really wanna pick up Séance over another joker that assists with scoring?
marble condor
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is there a tl;dr

steel bramble
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tl;dr this is a daily discussion, expect to read

minor chasm
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At best, I see this joker as one you can pick up and sell later with the aim of getting spectral that are useful for other builds (flush 5 and flush house).

marble condor
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fine you win

minor chasm
# marble condor is there a tl;dr

Point 1 argues that straight flushed demand too much and get close enough to accessing other, and higher scoring hands, that there isn't a point in chasing straight flushes unless you're specifically trying to proc Séance.
Point 2 argues that the effect itself is meh, due to most of the spectral cards being either too specific to gain value out of, actively detrimental to playing straight flushes, or detrimental in general.

wary plaza
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anything that gives -1 hand size is a hard take for me, no matter how good the effect is

minor chasm
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I love greeding so I always take those

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Best spectrals (real)

wary plaza
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i've lost one too many runs to making a meh joker negative and having a tiny hand

woven finch
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I don't consider "half of the spectrals aren't good for straight flush builds" to be that bad. Half of the tarots and 90% of the planets aren't what I want when I'm building with those.

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like if I have a vagabond build, I frequently waste tarots (convert a club to clubs for the +1 to Fortune Teller, or just to avoid selling it to break vagabond.)

I think the main problem is that a straight flush build is going to one-shot most blinds, so you get fewer spectrals if you have that build

minor chasm
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True, but that's more of a issue with jokers that give consumables to you

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I'm not fond of them either for that reason

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I usually sell whatever Vagabond gets me.

minor chasm
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Random thought that I'd like to propose as a way of making this joker better, how would making Séance proc with Flush House and Flush Five along with Straight Flush work out? I believe it is unprecedented for a joker to specifically work with a secret hand, but it would make this joker become more usable in terms of spectral cards.

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Getting Ouija, Cryptid, and Deja Vu would now be great, and if you decide to pivot away from Straight Flush, you can still keep Séance for the spectral cards instead of the joker becoming dead weight.

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The way this effect could be displayed in text without spoiling the secret hands would be for them to appear as "??????" in the text and only reveal that it works with Séance if you played that hand in the run.

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Something like "If poker hand is a Straight Flush, ??????, or ??????, create a random Spectral card."

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I can understand if localthunk has a policy for jokers not interacting exclusively with secret hand due to them being, y'know, secret, but I like to dream that one day this happens to Séance and it becomes a more loved joker to me.

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That's at least my balance idea.

woven finch
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"if poker hand is a straight flush or higher" would be the simplest wording, though that would also include non-flush 5oak

marble condor
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i think seance is fine as is tho, doesn't need more hand triggers

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straight flush was chosen for a reason: to make it naturally hard to trigger

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or else it gets too op

steel bramble
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i kind of like the idea of alluding to secret hands without explicitly stating them

minor chasm
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I do agree that it is fine the way it is but I do feel that it's not that great of a joker.

marble condor
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5oaf is way easier to build with deck manip compared to straight flush

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especially if you get ouija sigil from it then you'd be spectral farming

hardy grove
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Seance is a weird joker. I agree with Flowwey that objectively it's not very good, mainly because a lot of the spectrals do not support straight flushes. But it's a really fun joker. Having spectral cards in your consumables is a great novelty and building for straight flushes is a fun challenge. I'm just not sure if its novelty will hold in the full game. If I were to buff Seance, I wouldn't open it up to more hands, but I'd give it something like "x0.1 mult for each spectral card used this run"