#Daily Discussion #28 - Spare Trousers

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

delicate delta
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If 2 or more topics get enough votes, I'll keep the other(s) in the rotation on the next vote.

polar ether
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best joker in game, no cap

languid dagger
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one of my favorites

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made me actually use two pair when i would never ever play them before

polar ether
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i just love how it uses the hand i love to make it not-ass anymore

languid dagger
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i also love using it with houses

polar ether
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yeah

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no full house? no problem, pants got ya

magic matrix
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it has great mult scaling with little requirements

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unless you are doing a straight build in which case this isnt the one

lethal wave
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I mainly use it with houses. The scaling feels great, but also not too excessive. Wonderful joker

magic matrix
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full house is better for scoring and saving hands for money, but worse for scaling the joker

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sacreficing income early to scale it more and switch to full house later can be worth it in some cases

weary storm
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get trousers first or second blind win the game

magic matrix
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trousers is a insta take unless im far into the run or doing a build where i cant play 2 pairs

weary storm
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one of the best strategies right beside vaga+fortune teller

timber herald
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the best part is that it retains its scaling even if you don't play 2 pair so it's easy to pivot

languid dagger
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its so nice

magic matrix
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definite s tier in this demo at least

timber herald
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ehh i wouldn't say s

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but high a for sure

languid dagger
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refrence

image.png
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people said low a

neat wave
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some

pants

languid dagger
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いくつかの

パンツ

weary storm
timber herald
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some

pants

magic matrix
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i would argue that pants can carry alot more runs then most of the other A tier jokers and even some of the S tier jokers

grizzled slate
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pants carry, but at the cost of econ. Everything I voted as S tier (which wasn't vagabond) is strong enough to be a key piece of a one-shot-each-blind kind of build

magic matrix
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but the whole tierlist is a bit scewed anyway. What does the tierlist represent? usage for high scores, maybe how consistent you can win runs with it, or the value you are getting from the joker. what about how fun a joker is too play with. All these things can influence the tierlist, but this leaves the question does the tierlist represent its strength or other things.

timber herald
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idk how hack managed to get s

magic matrix
timber herald
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but dusk only got b last demo

grizzled slate
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hack + fibo is great, and when you start adding in things like glass, polychrome, red seals hack becomes super powerful

timber herald
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but it relies on other things

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imo s tiers should be main components of a build

magic matrix
timber herald
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still, it's not self-sufficient

weary storm
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if you dont have some editions on 2 3 4 5 than hack kinda falls off

timber herald
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shouldn't have been s

grizzled slate
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IMO hack is a main component of that style of build. If you're not retriggering your poly glass red seal 5 with hack, the build isn't doing what you're looking for.

weary storm
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a would have been better

delicate delta
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it's worth noting that after stacking mult on pants, that mult is usable for any other hand

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so if you somehow transition to straight flushes, pants is still good provided you got enough stacks

timber herald
magic matrix
grizzled slate
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pants are self-sufficient in some sense, but at the cost of econ

grizzled slate
weary storm
steel prairie
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super solid joker. It took me a while to see its merit, but it's one of the best jokers you can get in ante 1

grizzled slate
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nothing in this game is like ... if you get this joker, it totally carries with nothing

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I think of S tier as like ... if I get it in shop 1 or 2, I'm going to build around it

magic matrix
grizzled slate
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or even, I'll make decisions (like with tarots or standard packs) based on the possibility that I could get it later

magic matrix
weary storm
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shortcut shouldnt be up there aswell when you think about it

grizzled slate
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if I get pants in shop 1 or 2, I might build around it, but probably not on anaglyph (because I want to get value from the skips) and not if I already have something else I want to build around

timber herald
weary storm
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pure utility for specific build

grizzled slate
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personally for me, my preferred playstyle is big hands and one-shots, so I put shortcut/four fingers pretty high (straights and straight flushes are good to build around if you know you can get them) and I put stuff like green joker really low. I'm perfectly capable of playing a slow scaling game (just finished a magic deck game where I got vagabond in shop 1 and I picked up fortune teller mid-game and had it up around 70) but I really prefer the "yo this is a level 9 straight flush and kaboom flames everywhere" approach

weary storm
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not really s whorty

weary storm
grizzled slate
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of the scaling jokers, I think trousers are the most compatible with that game style, in the sense that I can scale them up for 4 antes and then use them with whatever hand type is my "score a lot of points" hand

weary storm
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but in general gameplay s tiers should be able to imrove any run on hand if you ask me

grizzled slate
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that would make like ... maybe 3 S tiers total

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my criteria are looser. I'm like ... if I'm almost definitely going to build around it and prioritize it if I can get it, it's S tier. Shortcut isn't going to help with a non-straight build, but if I get it early, I'm building straights.

weary storm
weary storm
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jokers that is easier to build around

grizzled slate
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too many jokers that are like "this will improve any run no matter what" would make it too easy for sure. Whereas by my definition, having several jokers of that type promotes variety -- if I get pants early, or 4 fingers, or hologram, or throwback, or baseball card, or shortcut, or hack, then I might play a totally different style than my usual

weary storm
magic matrix
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thats also the difference between blueprint and brainstorm, 1 is a always take and the other might be usefull in some cases

weary storm
grizzled slate
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there are very few circumstances in which I'd skip either

lethal wave
magic matrix
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blueprint always, but brainstorm is like a 80-90% take imo

languid dagger
magic matrix
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what i dont understand is how the suit jokers are in B tier

timber herald
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anyway pants are good

UEp6uIb.png
plain temple
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Pants are goated with the sauce

grizzled slate
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I think it'd be interesting to do a second list that's like "what % of the time do you take this joker" where the choices are laid out like standard deviations, like over 95% , between 70 and 95%, between 30 and 70, between 5 and 30, and under 5%

weary storm
grizzled slate
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green's drawback makes it hard to build around sometimes

magic matrix
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green has a high cost of scaling compared to pants

plain temple
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I think of jokers in terms of “am I gonna pick this up when I enter the shop” and although stacking jokers like Pants and Green Joker are strong if you already have a build set up do you really have the time to stack it?

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If it’s the first few jokers in the shop I would

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But later? Nah

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It’s why I consider both A despite how busted you can make them.

abstract coral
delicate delta
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oh yeah, that was on my to-do list. i ended up delaying them since they got changed recently

grizzled slate
# plain temple But later? Nah

yeah, that's a good point too. If I get pants in like ante 3 ... not gonna take it. If I get Fibonacci in ante 3, almost certainly am. Brainstorm too. Throwback unless I'm playing an intentional no-skip game.

kindred monolith
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i love this one, I've never ever played two pair unless I'm trashing hands to get a hand i want, but when I got this, I instantly used two pair, a lot, this is a must take unless I'm at a late round or already have a setup for a different hand