#0.9.3k
crimson crane
Do I understand it correctly that using ectoplasm twice decreases your hand size by 3?
crimson crane
I see 👍
quasi raptor
We had some testing issues with negatives, they needed a nerf
The issue was targeted negatives
quasi raptor
remember to share you experience in this thread if you end up trying this version!
low dew
Upsetting these are all posted at my bed time
pure lintel
my popcorn is still -2 visually
low dew
anyways is there gonna be a way to redo the tutorial in later versions?
low dew
latest k
low dew
lol
pure lintel
probably just gave local a mini heart attack
low dew
thats my job
pure lintel
oh yea should prob report that trading card thing
low dew
what thing?
pure lintel
where if you lower your handsize on the hook and play a hand it counts as a discard with one card
low dew
ohhh
pure lintel
easy with hangman lol
brittle bone
How exactly does joker copying work now?
quasi raptor
same as before, but if it's a negative being copied, the copy has 'negative' removed
low dew
basically its the same, but if the copy jokers negative the new joker is normal
tacit widget
Is 0.9.3k pushed out? On experimental branch but still in 0.9.3j
quasi raptor
hmm let me see
crimson crane
i switched to experimental after this thread, it downloaded, and yeah it's still j
tacit widget
last updated 11 hours ago according to SteamDB
quasi raptor
sorry about that, updated now
low dew
lol
low dew
anyways is there gonna be a way to redo the tutorial in later versions?
btw this wasnt answered
tacit widget
works now
brittle bone
Is there anything to prevent exceeding joker slots with negative invisible joker?
quasi raptor
No that is possible
but it cant get past N+1 slots
I thought that was preferable to an invis nerf
brittle bone
Joker slots seem like one of those things that shouldn't be tampered with
low dew
lol
tacit widget
casual 9k after this (had top up tag too)
old crown
Flush maxxing
tacit widget
I got The Star again
low dew
dave gonna get run out of bussiness
old crown
Interested to see new ectoplasm. I thought taking more than 1 would be a rarity anyways outside of high card builds. Maybe i was wrong
low dew
whats trobadour do again?
low dew
so inf hand size
quasi raptor
yeah
low dew
I mean, you would need inf ecto plasms though
quasi raptor
Not as difficult as you would think
quasi raptor
Legendary shouldnt mean trivialize the game and turn it into a waiting contest
old crown
lol i have a million thoughts going on at once about this. I do think this new effect will limit ectoplasm to a soft once per run effect
tacit widget
pivot time
I set up strengths to go for 4oak kings
except I'm against the mark
I think I'll go for 10s
low dew
gl
low dew
So for this strategy to work, you need trobadour an uncommon, somehow gaining ectoplasm in consumable slots (ghost deck or seance probably) and have a legendary joker
then you have +1 hand size per round, and 1 hand
quasi raptor
What if you have multiple Perkeos?
low dew
fair, but then you would have to have ankh or invis
ankh ruins trobador and 2 perkeos already seems busted
quasi raptor
What if they're eternal?
low dew
then you are lucky as fuck
old crown
Part of me wants to say leave it in. STS has some convoluted infinte combos and the game does not get trivialized. I'm comparing apples and oranges here but i'm wondering if neutering ectoplasm to stop this niche interaction is overkill
quasi raptor
I think what you are saying is that it's unlikely
low dew
it does seem that way
quasi raptor
Balatro end game and STS end game are not the same
Balatro end game is 'how far can you get'
old crown
i don't know what a better solution will be atm but its something i'd like to consider
low dew
rip
tacit widget
and decided to spend all my money on paintbrush
instead of skipping for $33 I went for planets
lots of misplays but a fun run
quasi raptor
From testing and feedback from all the testers, and the general design methodology I have that true infinite is actually not fun, I think this was a necessary change
low dew
ok
quasi raptor
True infinite means you are limited only by your patience
old crown
Its a tough balancing spot for sure. All im wondering at the moment is if there is an alternate fix
low dew
I just think that inf hand size is only half the game solved
tacit widget
I think inf hand size would be kinda unfun though
old crown
a not so elegant solution is that ectoplasm cannot target handsize jokers
quasi raptor
I can say from our testers experience - it is unfun
low dew
how many people got the combo?
quasi raptor
Are you claiming it would be fun?
low dew
Maybe once
quasi raptor
exactly
tacit widget
high card run now
low dew
and this seems so niche that once is the best you will get
quasi raptor
It's not - I think you might be underestimating what people can do in this game
tacit widget
does hermit double negative money?
quasi raptor
does not, no
low dew
It's not - I think you might be underestimating what people can do in this game
I guess I am
tacit widget
foil drunkard again
quasi raptor
cheaper editions should help with some of the frustration of seeing them without being able to afford
low dew
yeah
quasi raptor
At the very least it's much easier to sell down to buy them, so it's less likely to be impossible to buy
low dew
I gotta get use to that ig
old crown
are cheaper editions a new addition to this version?
quasi raptor
version j
knotty trail
Trading card now jiggles when active
this is the greatest day of my life
stone portal
shadow pike
>Trading card now jiggles when active
this is the greatest day of my life
I saw every single person who used trading card forget they had it some of the time, and I myself forgot so often I stopped taking it, so this is indeed the second coming of Jokesus
Also popcorn nerf feels like it makes way more sense for what Popcorn was going for
tacit widget
High Card run going strong
low dew
lol
tacit widget
$107 before boss
shadow pike
I just got 4 x 3 lvl ups for High Card so it was level 13 and better than straight flush
and then died anyway cause I had like no jokers
tacit widget
not high card only but close
bull came at the right time
almost one shot
I still don't like this end deck animation, but what a wild high card run
Everything just fell into place after I got banner
tacit widget
about equal, my second card was multi and that scored about 1% less
if it was an ace would've been more probably
old crown
New editions still too expensive please make cheaper
quasi raptor
You can afford that!
old crown
lmao i just noticed the temparance. I just saw $8 and got sad
low dew
Ok but its banner
old crown
Banner is a pet card of mine
chip only run incoming
yeah im thinking mult is for noobs
low dew
lol
old crown
you know i might actually win this without picking up a single mult joker
low dew
gl
old crown
mental math never again
low dew
dang
old crown
its definitely possible to do. There are enough glass cards in the deck to pull the mult up
Empress was early game MVP
ruby epoch
is +2 hand size good enough to be on a legendary?
maybe I'm missing something but you still can only play/discard 5 cards at a time so it's really only seeing two extra cards for the entire round right?
fossil kettle
wait you cant dupe negatives anymore??????
as in they cant still be negative???
sad
ecto change is funny too
when was poly price changed
idk if this was in last build or not
because didnt poly add 10
glass patio
i think it was
i saw someone else post about the edition jokers in the shop being cheaper in the j build thread
chrome igloo
Gold card triggered by red seal, huge W
chrome igloo
idk if this was in last build or not
It was in j ver
fossil kettle
ah ok
chrome igloo
maybe I'm missing something but you still can only play/discard 5 cards at a tim...
There is no legendary that gives hand size. I you're referring to the convo above they're talking about perkeo - legendary that dupes one of your consumables every round
fossil kettle
maybe to make ecto less viable on high card builds?
chrome igloo
ecto already made the run hard enough
It was to fix a special case with duping troubadour jonkler, I doubt many people use more than 1 ecto in an avg run to win
(+2 hand size)
pallid copper
Eh
I think there could have been a use for double ecto
But imo now with -3 that's a rip
rocky forge
Yeah trading card reminder ! I guess this applies to DNA as well in the full game
pallid copper
Also invis and ankh nerf is just sad
Another unneeded change imo
I really think killing their power potential just isn't a smart move
Like ecto invis and ankh being nerfed to this point is just sad imo
The power of spectrals and rare jokers is meant to be high
And work with negatives
If I had to give my opinion the ecto nerf needs to be reworked and invis and ankh nerf needs to be just outright removed
glass patio
i just had a visual glitch with a Red Seal Poly King in hand at end of round that said "Again" while the round was ending. wish i recorded it
chrome igloo
Parking?
glass patio
nope
chrome igloo
Or gold card
glass patio
nope
chrome igloo
Hmm
glass patio
just a Polychrome King with Red Seal
glass patio
no
glass patio
there was zero reason for that king to do anything
chrome igloo
What jokers did u have
glass patio
Shortcut, Hologram, Odd Todd, Fortune Teller, and either Joker, Popcorn, or Misprint (and Even Steven maybe idk how far into the run i got him)
Negative Todd btw
chrome igloo
Alr, ty
glass patio
np
chrome igloo
can confirm this to be a thing, red sealed lucky card popped with "Again" at end of round
my recording of it vanished somewhere, but it's 100% a thing
chrome igloo
hollow gorge
lol
chrome igloo
trading card wiggle seems to work fine, there was one moment when it felt like it started just a little bit too late, but maybe just me
glass patio
i wonder if the red seal thinks the card is gold regardless of the actual enhancement?
just spitballing how id imagine it would work under the hood
chrome igloo
probably retriggers itself at end of round without checking if there's anything to retrigger
glass patio
or that yeah
quasi raptor
Thanks for the big report!
I'll fix that soon, other than the red seal causing an 
when nothing happens, any other issues anyone noticed with this version?
chrome igloo
Played a few games and did not spot anything weird
shadow pike
I noticed my score wasn't big number and i lost actually, v strange dev pls fix
woven echo
I reaaally don't think the invis nerf is good
it's already a consumable by nature
And you already basically have to get rid of everything for ankh, making it extremely bad in the endgame
pallid copper
Same with ankh
pallid copper
Feedback from the testers apparently
shadow pike
The issue was **targeted** negatives
I don't fully understand how invis lets you target negatives, like you didn't get to pick which joker had the neg applied in the first place so getting a second one seems just as much up to chance as finding one in the shop via neg tag
I'm assuming your testing showed players getting a bunch of really strong jokers too easily but I also don't totally know how a dev might even go about communicating what the playtesting that informed a balance change demonstrated, at least in a way that is comprehensible to a player
My intuition (and current skill level at the game) tells me that getting 7+ jokers only happens if you already start rolling in cash and manage to find spectral packs or get lucky with neg tags, so yeah idk
mellow violet
Let's not forget, Thunk is also a tester and allowed to decide for himself
whether or not a game-breaking interaction it too frequent for comfort.
Moreover, what may seem infrequent to us, on the outside with limited information,
may be more frequent, and more game-breaking, in the context of the full game
(about which we don't know everything).
For example, we have no experience with Ghost Deck putting Spectral cards into the shop;
we don't know what the drop rate is going to be. We have no experience with Endless mode.
No experience with Eternal Jokers. Custom rules created by the Challenge modes.
If Thunk wants to write us an essay explaining the reasons behind the changes, he can,
but he doesn't owe us anything.
shadow pike
Yeah I was thinking about it earlier and the rest of the game can wildly toss whatever ideas of balance we've been accustomed to in the demo(s)
mellow violet
In my experience, the new demo has already had a much different mouthfeel than the "September" demo
shadow pike
Yeah what I'd heard about the last one was that straights were very bad and it was all about flushes, but this time around with Shortcut, 4 fingers, and Seance it seems like straights and slushes are all the rage