First shop cost

[bitter flicker]

🧵

[wheat venture]

I like the fun of getting an insanely powerful joker in the first shop, even while most of the time being unable to afford it

[eager veldt]

I don't mind some unaffordable jokers as long as there's like 1 affordable one, if I can't buy any then it's frustrating lol

[wheat venture]

It makes the moments where you can (because of yellow deck, tags, tarots, etc.) that much more special

[polar light]

I think the poll already shows a pretty clear answer

[flat stump]

I feel the same

[gentle basin]

Maybe have a deck that makes the shop only display affordable jokers

[cursive ferry]

across 100s of runs, there were very few instances where something was polychrome or negative preventing me from buying it due to the cost. What's more annoying is getting scary face and a Neptune when I have $6 on an abandoned deck. But I just don't think you can optimise to make every run never experience a 'bad' shop

[polar light]

that deck would barely have any noticable effect om most runs

[gentle basin]

True, I'm just intrigued by the concept of a "Shop Master" deck

[twilit solar]

You are in debt - no jokers are displayed

[gentle basin]

You use debt to get negative jokers 😂

[eager veldt]

I think having an edition joker in the first shop and actually managing to buy it is an experience worth preserving, it feels awesome lol

[polar light]

then add some effects like +1 shop slot, +1 pack, those or other shop related things could have alot more effect.

[haughty tartan]

ooh shiny ✨

[twilit solar]

How do you end up with 6 dollar first shop isn't the absolute min 7$

[cursive ferry]

shop 1 buy credit card to buy Poly Mystic Summit etc, a wonderful fun boon

[polar light]

immolation shop 1 is best, thinning early and money

also great start for interest

[wheat venture]

Immolate is overpowered, I’m glad a lot of the other spectrals have gotten buffs

[haughty tartan]

especially incantation and some others

[bitter flicker]

How on earth is this poll so one sided

[twilit solar]

Lmao

[haughty tartan]

i guess we haven’t thought of a good solution for this problem

[twilit solar]

No idea but it's funny

[bitter flicker]

What was all that discussion about??

[twilit solar]

We need the origin

[cursive ferry]

Mountains out of mole hills?

[haughty tartan]

raise hand up bias? tend to stick with a majority group 🤔

[bitter flicker]

A and B encompass all possible solutions to the problem

C is "what problem?"

EvKem and Evab I think wanted something like this?

[cursive ferry]

Yeah, I was in C, but through the discussion I was trying to help apease people that were A/B by offering solutions for a middle ground...

[bitter flicker]

EvKem brought it up

And it's something I have heard before

[twilit solar]

I see campfire too

[bitter flicker]

Well I'll give the poll some more time so we can get a bigger snapshot but seems pretty clear what to do right now

imo even the wording of the answers in the poll massage a No answer

So it's amazing there aren't any

[haughty tartan]

i think we are so used to it we don’t mind, or at least that’s what i think

[jagged plover]

nuance on c - maybe you should guarantee at least one affordable joker

[bitter flicker]

That's possible for sure

[jagged plover]

you don't have to cap the shop at $10, but if you're going to generate exclusively editions on rare jokers maybe there's a failsafe that summons a common

and the rare goes back in the stack

[eager veldt]

Yeah I voted C because as long as there are some affordable jokers I'm fine

[haughty tartan]

guarantees business card on abandoned

[bitter flicker]

This is all heavily hedged by the fact that you really don't need a Joker shop 1

[jagged plover]

yeah but this is actually okay because your deck shouldn't influence the generated joker

[haughty tartan]

yeah just listing some rare funny moments

[jagged plover]

i'm fine with as it is now but if you wanted to make sure there was the option to purchase at least one joker i don't think that's unreasonable

you never even have to tell the player about the mechanic it's just potentially a little leg up, if you want it

[wheat venture]

For those who want a guaranteed affordable joker, the best solution might just be to generate a random uneditioned common/uncommon joker as the first thing in the shop, then do everything else as normal

[cursive ferry]

Shop 1, a $16 rare joker appears, Jimbo pops out, says "Sorry about that" and $3 Joker takes it's place for some basic survival /s

[twilit solar]

😭

[bitter flicker]

A $16 rare Joker does have "Jimbo mocking you when you lose" energy

[cursive ferry]

Is +4 mult Joker the only $3 joker in the game?

[bitter flicker]

Credit card as well

Because Society

[cursive ferry]

runs to edit script

[haughty tartan]

current poll status: 0:0:13

[stray timber]

1st shop free reroll could also work, because I occasionally get only tarots, which also sucks

[haughty tartan]

not really though

sometimes the consumables are good ( like empress or even chariot )

[unique dragon]

Yellow deck masterrace

[twilit solar]

changed from 2$ to 3$? 🤔

[wheat venture]

On Yellow Deck, you can buy Polychrome Jimbo shop 1 and still have $9 left

[lucid agate]

It's frustrating to never have possibilities to buy a very good joker just because the run is early

[dim marsh]

i will say sometimes on the last demo when id do red or abandoned deck and i saw something i couldn't afford, like a foil or holo or poly card in the first shop, id exit out of the run, copy the seed and do a yellow deck so i can afford it

but i also dont think that should change anything, part of the fun of roguelikes is that anything can happen. sometimes its amazing some times its like damn...not enough money.

[lucid agate]

it's a double sanction with no reason :

• You can't buy a good joker
• You have one useless shop slot

[haughty tartan]

*joker

that aside i see your point

[wheat venture]

**jonkler

[proven bison]

Well I’m late but I’ll give my two cents from last night anyway

The main issue here is with agency. If you get a rare editioned joker in the small blind ante 1 shop, there is NOTHING you could have done differently to have afforded it, barring playing yellow deck.

On the contrary, if you find one later in the run that you can’t afford, it’s your fault that you can’t afford it because you could have played differently, bought fewer things, optimised more interest, etc etc to have afforded this.

It’s the difference between “what the hell this sucks” and “damn I wish I had saved money! Next time I’ll get it for sure”

So, missing out on things later in the run is completely fine, that’s the risk/reward you take when you spend money

But ante 1 small blind shop? It just sucks

[dim marsh]

the thing i found most annoying was just the shops repeating the same 2-3 jokers i dont need for my run on 2-3 different shops, even if i rerolled. but that also could be an issue of the demo having limited jokers and i just got RNGd

[haughty tartan]

relatable

i sold business card

it appeared the next 5 shops

RNG has changed tho so idk

but if a solution were to made, it think a decent solution is roll’s “passive remember thingy” where passive you saw in the shop won’t appear in for the next four rerolls before being readded into the pool

to prevent the same annoying pause you don’t want from reappearing that much

this could potentially be added into balatro, but instead just prevents jokers that appeared that shop from appearing in the next shop

[twilit solar]

the changes in rng do not affect that as far as I'm aware

the changes were regarding jokers appearance being inconsistent, not that you wont have a chance of the same one over and over