#Rerolls

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

atomic swift
#

Hey all, still out of town with family. Have a great evening!

civic linden
#

🧵

worldly crag
#

i'm in between b and c on this one. don't think it's unbalanced, but also i don't tend to reroll unless i have a good amount of extra money

verbal lantern
#

I would personally pick a different option than all of these-
It feels too expensive in the early game but becomes much more reasonable towards the late game.
Rerolling early game with a low amount of money feels incredibly bad because you're spending future money to do it as well, so it costs more than 5, it costs an additional 1 per round of interest in the future that you're now missing out on. I think the base reroll value starting lower and then going up over time would be reasonable.

civic linden
#

I usually spend my excess cash on packs, which usually cost about as much as i'm making every round unless i have an income joker, so I often don't feel I have the ability to spend money on a reroll for just a chance at something i would spend even more money on. Perhaps in the longer game I would spend more on rerolls, but it does often feel like a lost opportunity because i'm too poor

civic linden
verbal lantern
#

I had the idea that the base reroll cost could be equal to the ante

#

not sure if that would be too easy to fish for stuff early though

civic linden
#

probably

idle imp
#

I wouldn't mind one free reroll per shop maybe?

civic linden
#

even with red/abandoned, you can reroll 4 times and still get a $6 joker in the first shop

verbal lantern
#

no it would still go up by 1 per reroll

civic linden
#

oh right

#

twice then 🤔

#

still seems a bit much

verbal lantern
#

really?

civic linden
#

maybe

#

that's a lot of options for a first shop

verbal lantern
#

I mean, getting nothing from your first shop or 2 feels super bad 😅

#

and that's happened to me a couple times

civic linden
#

also might encourage players to reset more since you get more choices on each reset, so grinding through the first round is more worth doing

verbal lantern
#

😩

flint crane
#

I like the idea of rerolling getting more expensive over time

verbal lantern
#

Maybe it could start at 3 instead?

#

And go up by 1 every other Ante

flint crane
#

i definitely like that better

verbal lantern
#

I might reroll once on the first shop with $10 if it cost 3

flint crane
#

currently i almost never reroll unless ive already bought packs AND vouchers AND i have at least 30 bucks left

flint crane
flint crane
verbal lantern
mortal grotto
sinful widget
#

Honestly, I feel like rerolling should restock the card packs. Maybe the upgrade should be a voucher?
Would make rerolling feel a lot better tbh. Rerolling feels awful when what you've rerolled into is garbo.

civic linden
#

oh yeah, there also doesn't seem to be much incentive to reroll when your joker slots are full, at least for a little bit after

#

not unless you're still struggling to survive

rugged folio
#

I don't reroll often, it tends not to be worth it. Most stuff in the shop aren't things you need. Unless I'm desperate or have extra money after packs I don't press it.

civic linden
#

randomized between the pack types

rugged folio
civic linden
#

in conjunction with cheaper rerolls, it might work

steel ingot
#

honestly i feel like shop in general could be better, idk if it's just cognitive bias but uncommons and esp rares seem to show up very infrequently even with rerolling

next crow
#

maybe if rerolling would just refresh one pack at a time as opposed to refreshing two

#

although that still seems very overpowered tbh

steel ingot
#

I think rerolls not refreshing packs is a pretty important part of balance though, caps the amount you can modify your deck per shop

next crow
#

agreed

#

if ever available, it should only be through a voucher

steel ingot
#

keep in mind the craziest econ options arent in this demo

#

(assuming they don't get drastically changed from their 0.8.8 iterations)

#

though admittedly hard pivoting in one shop with a ton of money sounds like crazy fun

tall wharf
#

I think the $5 base price is basically spot on - it's painful, but affordable with good economy. The reroll voucher should be a $2 discount on rerolls though IMO.

#

Assuming you don't have discount voucher, you need to reroll 10 times after purchasing just to break even on the investment. And realistically, you need to do this over the course of many shops, due to the scaling price.

#

Like, if you reroll once on every shop after buying the voucher, 3 antes later you still wouldn't have broken even compared to not buying the voucher.

limber surge
#

I think a few people are missing the point. While it feels like rerolls are a win-more mechanic -- I think that is kind of the point of it, and I wouldn't call it win-more, I'd call it win-enough. The game challenges you in the early game to get a good generic joker or two, build up a good economy, which lets you roll into even better jokers/the things you really want in the late game. I think most people find rerolls unfair because they really expect the game to hand them the specific joker they want, but that's not the point of the game or the reroll system.

covert axle
#

I'd have much preferred if it scaled differently, like 3-6-9 but i suppose it's fine as it is

agile arch
#

the situations I notice reroll sucking are:

  • you get a shop full of tarots (or worse, enhanced cards hahahahahah) and need a joker but don't get it and $5 is too much
  • you are mostly set on ante 3-4 and want to upgrade into some better jokers, but spend like $30 in rerolls and get scammed by having nothing good come out of it, it turns rerolls into eyerolls
steel ingot
#

Yeah it sucks to be halfway into a build and fishing for more pieces but you just see the same commons and planets again and again

static ice
#

it just feels like a useless button until you are well over 20$ especially not on yellow deck

#

although i think that's kind of fitting, similar to SNKRX

#

at least good money builds can still cheese it in endless when the full game is out

steel ingot
#

it's so bad that the tag that gives a chance for a rare seems extremely worth forgoing the income from the round idk

#

not sure if that's just me

tall wharf
#

That seems like good balance to me

#

That you might consider skipping a round occasionally

#

Compare to "skip for free mega arcana pack"

steel ingot
#

i agree but shop could stand to be better

tall wharf
#

Uncommon = you will get a few in any given run, but maybe not the one you want
Rare = you might not get one at all, let alone the one you want

vital ember
#

Starting at like $2 and going up every ante sounds good. Also agreed with the reroll voucher being too expensive for what you get

#

To me it feels better to keep rerolls cheaper at the beginning to let players explore the game. If the player chooses to up the difficulty level, then you can start to crank up the reroll price

turbid iron
#

For me at the current price rerolls are something I never do unless my run is already a victory and I'm just wasting money to see if a get a poly joker for fun

terse sapphire
#

Early-game rerolls feel bad enough that when I have bad early shops, I'll often rather go without any jokers at all than reroll for the chance to get one. I'll echo the sentiment that having rerolls start at $3 and scale to $5 later would feel better.

Also agree that reroll voucher isn't great. There are times where it does give you a net gain, but those gains are typically weaker than those of other vouchers and often you only really get that gain when you already would've won anyways.

#

The early blinds are easy enough that you can usually do fine without jokers, but you can't deny that finding a +mult joker early gives you a huge eco advantage in saving hands, which often sets the tone of the rest of the game. I think being able to more consistently get an acceptable joker early and balancing the game around that would turn out more elegant than trying to work around both cases

#

Could also help with the issue of resetting mentioned last week

fading shard
#

rerolls are too much of a high cost for early game. i need to seek a mid joker as soon as possible so i can scale through the first blinds, so the odds are on my favor, but when that joker doesn't appear then i'm either restarting the game or coping on a arcana or/and a planet pack. but later on, when i'm building interest or i have a joker that helps on economy, i can afford rerolling once to seek for better stuff

brisk rain
#

+1 to "rerolls are too expensive early and too cheap late".

rancid coral
#

Thinking about it a little bit, I think the $5 initial cost for rerolls is fair but not necessarily the most fun

#

Rerolling is fun, and deciding between rerolling or saving $ is fun too