I recently finished #guides, and I want to start working on pvp, specificaly arena. I've read the beginning parts of the beginner pvp thread, mostly the parts regarding the fat lushen AO teams, but I'm missing just about all the good options, I don't have any of the nat5 spd leads, I don't have Orion to use with Susano, I don't have Kabila. My plan atm is to use konamiya on her role, but I'm wondering what to do about lead and atb booster, would it be better to use as recommended for "if you're very poor", susano + Wayne, or should I run Orochi + bernard, since I do have Orochi, and Bernard seems like maybe a better option compared to Wayne? Sorry for the long thread for such a silly thing
#First Ao, Fat Lushen
austere cedar
I also have some nat5's, with spd leads, but only 24% ones so I don't believe they would work here
dusty yoke
Susano/Wayne works, the issue with orochi Bernard is then your whole comp is wind so you’ll struggle to clean up fire mons
Which speed leads do you have? You need the lead to help with cleanup as well, so just because it’s a smaller lead doesn’t mean it isn’t viable if it offers good damage for cleanup potential
austere cedar
Gimme a second to check all the names haha
Ik for sure one is tomoe
Tomoe, Chandra, Jamire for nat 5 with att spd lead
dusty yoke
None of those would work for this offense
austere cedar
Figured, since they all seem the support type
For a bit I thought maybe Chandra worked cuz of his atb boost but then I saw his speed 
Guess susano wayne it is
dusty yoke
The issue with Chandra isn’t his speed, it’s that he doesn’t do much damage
In this comp, you aren’t expecting your boosters to do damage, so you need your lead to be able to finish off anything lushen doesn’t wipe
It isn’t as simple as “outspeed, boost lushen, press s3, gg”
There are mons with revives, there are mons built to tank lushen, he can glance into fire units, etc
So your lead needs to take it from there
austere cedar
Right, yeah there's quite a bit of monsters with revives i noticed
dusty yoke
Any defense that doesn’t have a way to deal with lushen is automatically bad
austere cedar
Also a lot of monsters are very tanky, my rune quality on the lushen is still not super mega great, so a lof of the tankier monsters survive my lushen specificaly
dusty yoke
It’s been a staple mon/offense for years, so the defense meta has mons that have a way to deal with it
Some of that is target selection. You aren’t looking for super tanky defs with this team. You want to find fast defs you can race and wipe before they do their stuff
But it’s not unusual for one or two tanky mons to survive lushen even on faster defs, so that’s where the lead comes in
dim trail
i think you can try chandra
he's the best option you have and either way there's no harm in trying, as chandra is top tier everywhere else
austere cedar
Chandra as lead + wayne, or use chandra both as lead and atb booster and have another unit fill that 4th slot?
dusty yoke
Chandra base speed is too low to be the race unit into the comps you want to fat lushen