Fam's help thread | Summoners War | Page 4

marble lance Jul 25, 2024, 11:40 PM

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approximately only 10% of my units or builds that i made

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saw any real action

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90% of it was just testing and me deciding it sucked and wasn't good enough

slim hatch Jul 25, 2024, 11:41 PM

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Yeah that feature is pretty helpful, Yak's guild is full of good players

marble lance Jul 25, 2024, 11:41 PM

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i don't know anyone good who actively plays more than 1 account

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there's just no time

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there is way too much to do in this game now

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if you want to actually get anywhere

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 2:12 AM

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For toa hell should I go for 239 tick vio or 286 tick swift?

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I can afford 2 286 vio set for spectra and tyron but not sure for others

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 2:48 AM

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286 tick vio

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 2:51 AM

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marble lance 286 tick vio

I can't manage that on other teammates

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I have to choose between more tick and vio

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 2:56 AM

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you can use a speed lead

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manage it

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 3:08 AM

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marble lance you can use a speed lead

still not enough with tyron lead

hybrid crystal Jul 26, 2024, 3:10 AM

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For toa hell vio is nice but not really compulsory

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 3:10 AM

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On low base spd mons like Homie, I can only manage up to +140, which is around 270 cmb spd

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So yeah I think I'll go for 286 spd swift

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:19 AM

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marble lance 286 tick vio

Do I need to be this fast in Bolv teams?

hybrid crystal Jul 26, 2024, 5:20 AM

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slim hatch Do I need to be this fast in Bolv teams?

Nah

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Ur string could be like no spd

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:24 AM

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no

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:26 AM

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marble lance no

239 vio is enough on buffer right?

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:27 AM

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yes the bolv team is just all siege

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 9:45 AM

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I still don't get the +6 spd rune in rune craft event

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what should I do?

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 1:27 PM

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what do you mean

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 1:28 PM

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marble lance what do you mean

The free 2 rune event that let you get 18 spd rune I mean

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It's ending soon but I still don't get a quailified rune

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 1:29 PM

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oh

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well what do you think.. just settle for the next 17 or even 16 you see

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 1:30 PM

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Yeah I guess I'll have to do that

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I've spent all eblem and Jesus still hate me

merry star Jul 26, 2024, 1:52 PM

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2 days left to farm emblems… get into giants with a vengeance

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:38 PM

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took me quite sometimes but I finally managed to build the team

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mihyang is about 10 spd slower than to be tuned but it's because I lack grind, sleeping in r5 and pray for an intagible grind for that

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:41 PM

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sometimes its ok for your 2nd DD to not be tuned, if your 1st snipe kills the potential swift unit

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:41 PM

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marble lance sometimes its ok for your 2nd DD to not be tuned, if your 1st snipe kills the po...

so my mihyang is fine?

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or can I drop some spd?

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nah I'm to greedy here, I just hope she's fine

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:42 PM

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it'll be fine for now

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farm giants and look to improve but this looks better

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:43 PM

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ok tks

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I think I should drop spd lushen

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that beth take some spd lushen rune and maybe he's not worth running anymore

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:45 PM

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you can swap around some sets

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like this bethony set you can put directly on a spd lushen

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:48 PM

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marble lance like this bethony set you can put directly on a spd lushen

and he'll deal 5k damage 💀

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but I get it, spd lushen is only use like 20% of my arena cleaves, not gonna priority it much

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btw, since my julie is tuned to bernard, can I run bernard miriam julie lushen?

marble lance Jul 26, 2024, 5:49 PM

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julie is good for ao yes

slim hatch Jul 26, 2024, 5:50 PM

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I'm a bit fear that nem monster will kill me

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 1:45 AM

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Fam's help thread

marble lance Jul 29, 2024, 2:07 AM

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forgot to reply but typically you overtune these kinds of double dd spd aos, and julie's multihits has a bit of anti nem protection

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only abellio is really scary but traditional nem monsters aren't

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 2:10 AM

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marble lance forgot to reply but typically you overtune these kinds of double dd spd aos, and...

why is that the case?

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I've several trouble against Ariel nem iirc

marble lance Jul 29, 2024, 2:12 AM

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nem isn't all or nothing right, you gain atb for every 7% hp lost

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if a single hit does 22% against a monster with a nem set, that monster will gain 12% atb. but if that hit is split into 2 hits that do 11% each, then the monster gains 8% atb

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so julie's 6 hits dampen nem effect quite a bit compared to a single big hit that does the same damage

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also i dunno about this specific bernard miriam julie lushen team

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but if you do a more classic bernard bastet julie lushen

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you can easily overtune and get your mons more spd than needed

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also you don't even have to use lushen with julie

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these days i think the more meta julie team would be something like shimi julie

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so you can get in a spd lead and race with kabilla/eshir

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 2:16 AM

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I get the idea

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thanks, gotta take shimi out from storage

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is psama a better shimi?

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uh, nah I guess not, they're 2 different unit plus psama need def break for big dmg

marble lance Jul 29, 2024, 2:17 AM

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shimi does more dmg than psama, and with julie you already have julie being water

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its a different team

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you wouldn't use shimi julie against enemy psama

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 2:17 AM

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I'll just try to fast lushen these shjt

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or skip

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in case I need to race spd can kabilla reliably replace bernad?

marble lance Jul 29, 2024, 2:19 AM

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kabilla lets you race higher speed defs but you lose dmg because no spd buff

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for shimi that is

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 2:31 AM

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alr tks

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ofc when we need to race spd dmg become less important

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 3:11 AM

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marble lance also i dunno about this specific bernard miriam julie lushen team

I think of this specific team mainly because my Julie is tuned to bernard

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Will keep that in mind

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Recently I noticed I'm able to clear more and more defs in conqueror ranks

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now it's usually 3-4 def per list, which is insanely good tbh

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I start to think about building Gin properly

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he seems rather mediocre for now

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 1:09 PM

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@marble lance this is even better than I expected

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I see this def, pause for a moment and think "my lushen can hit 14k, he'll kill that Abellio"

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And he did, Byung also reduced to like 30% hp and get finished by gin

surreal iron Jul 29, 2024, 1:12 PM

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you can't hope to kill good abellio without any dmg up support for lushen, it only works because they seems to have not a good runes

slim hatch Jul 29, 2024, 1:16 PM

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I'm at C2 (monday so don't mean shit) so I'll risk

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still a good way to learn what I can do

marble lance Jul 29, 2024, 1:27 PM

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it's definitely good to try but i'm pretty sure i've said countless times that abellio is not lushenable

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there are of course exceptions, for example if the def is bad and abellio is the only thing that will survive lushen (think things like psama triton sav abellio) then it doesn't matter

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or you can risk it if you're doing a full atk 1 shot setup (like the alicia miriam/mirinae full fight in beginner pvp)

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but in this case byung juno have very high chance of surviving

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 1:49 AM

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siiiiuuu

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https://tenor.com/view/cr7-football-robozão-gif-26544036

Tenor

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@marble lance bye bye kabilla, adriana is my favorite booster now

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time to build gemini adriana miriam leah offense

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this is enough on her right?

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 1:57 AM

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what do you mean enough

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 1:58 AM

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enough skillups

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I aim for the 20% free crd

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 2:00 AM

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usable with 0 skillups, but only when its maxed then its "enough"

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stop trying to rationalize you having 3 random skillups on hand

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 2:01 AM

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can you elaborate in simpler english I'm a bit confused

cyan steeple Jul 30, 2024, 2:02 AM

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she doesnt need skillups

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maxed skill up is what u need for it to be considered enough

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 2:02 AM

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i am saying even if she had no skillups you should still be using her

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 2:02 AM

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ah yes ofc, I just happen to have some spare blade dancers

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if it needed I can even devil her, but luckily don't have to yet

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 2:03 AM

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do not devil her

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 2:03 AM

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yeah

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so for now I have 2 favorite booster

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the best is adriana to run this team and cleave most offense

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and next is bernard to use in galleon julie cleave

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in siege I would swap the fastest set to bernard, this is for wgb

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in situation when I need to use lushen for fastest ao possible I'll just switch set to kabilla, can't think of much situation where I should run lushen instead of leah either

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 4:28 PM

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Abellio is meta in AD but does the same case apply to siege defense?

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I fear he'll be the Amduat situation because no def break

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 4:33 PM

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abellio is not good for siege def

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 4:52 PM

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marble lance abellio is not good for siege def

yeah I just summoned him recently on my alt, he seems really meta for ad

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gotta use leftover runes

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 4:52 PM

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marble lance abellio is not good for siege def

how about siege offense

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he seems like a strong failsaver

surreal iron Jul 30, 2024, 4:53 PM

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Triana hwadam seems better at that

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 4:54 PM

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btw smol question, is the elite stage in these event dungeon provide anything better than normal one?

surreal iron Jul 30, 2024, 4:54 PM

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Before it was the upgrades you get were better quality

marble lance Jul 30, 2024, 4:54 PM

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slim hatch how about siege offense

nope

slim hatch Jul 30, 2024, 4:55 PM

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alr, I'll do elite ones then since it's just take a bit longer

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 2:39 AM

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basically tell me who should I give 3 of my swift set to

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at least I can use a same rune set between leah/bethony

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the process isn't wrong right?

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 3:08 AM

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turn out it isn't that simple

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@marble lance the ao is working good so far

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the first 3 mons actually use some of the fastest swift runes I have, I also runed adriana 3 spd slower than possible so I can use the acc% swift rune on gemini

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I also realize an advantage of tuning by spd buff

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leah rune is taken from bethony, however in 4 man ao she need 14 less spd to be tuned and I replace a rune for that

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maybe I can use a different swift dd set on leah and she would still do great

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it's also super convinient to have adriana atk lead when no spd contest, this is perfect

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 8:25 AM

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@half marten can you kindly have a look at how I build my team?

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seems like jx went out for milk

half marten Jul 31, 2024, 8:28 AM

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slim hatch <@308332822307930112> can you kindly have a look at how I build my team?

i would love to help you, sadly i do not even know what one of these units do because i didnt play the game, just came back some days ago
i never used a team like that and generally i feel like your game knowledge atm might just be better than mine because i came back after 1 year of not playing lol

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 8:31 AM

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alr tysm

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 9:00 AM

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so far as I experience, this team do hit a lot of things

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I don't even have to mind byung and camilla (actually yes if they go together but that's rare)

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So far I feel some counter to my team are: Amduat and Moore as they cut in b4 Leah, Juno or anything that affect spd buff, 33 lead into fast stripper because it fuck my adriana+19 lead, and rng sometimes make me miss strip and def break on abellio, preventing me from cleaningup byung/cami

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other than that I'm demolishing shit, and even if I don't adriana teams are fucking op to clean shit up

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 9:40 AM

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I'm still a bit stuck in end c2 tho

surreal iron Jul 31, 2024, 12:31 PM

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You don't have chiwu right?

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Your Leah's attack is quite low from what I can see

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 12:42 PM

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Yeah I'll try swop then

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 12:43 PM

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surreal iron You don't have chiwu right?

Yeah

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Well it's more common for one to don't have a nat5 than have one

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Even the ld4 are far from my reach

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:03 PM

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yea it looks correctly tuned

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you can always check for yourself by setting the offense as a defense and hitting yourself

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if possible you can add some damage to gemini

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gemini only removes 1 buff so you can get in trouble vs shields. if you have dmg on him he can actually break shield and then there's only 1 buff left to strip. dmg gets applied before strip

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after that the improvements will just come from better monster options, skillups, and runes

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leah teams will have trouble against good cami/byung/juno

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abellio should be ok because even if abellio doesn't die you're still 1 shotting most of everything else

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leah can still hit a lot of 33 lead + fast stripper other than triton but you just dont have the monsters and runes

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:38 PM

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marble lance leah teams will have trouble against good cami/byung/juno

what about amduat, can I hit him reliably

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:39 PM

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marble lance leah can still hit a lot of 33 lead + fast stripper other than triton but you ju...

yeah the main culprit is zen, starting c3 I don't see clara often but if she+33 lead outspd me once

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:42 PM

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slim hatch what about amduat, can I hit him reliably

no

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:42 PM

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slim hatch yeah the main culprit is zen, starting c3 I don't see clara often but if she+33 ...

well you have speed disadvantage with gemini and your adriana is really slow

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you can't hit zen with that team but ultimately there are leah teams that can safely hit zen

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:43 PM

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it's rune problem then

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:43 PM

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i said its both rune and monster

merry star Jul 31, 2024, 1:44 PM

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my account isn't too much more advanced than yours and i can hit 33 zen pretty reliably with chiwu adri

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:54 PM

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merry star my account isn't too much more advanced than yours and i can hit 33 zen pretty r...

I still hit zen tho, but I noticed most of the time I get outspd it's him

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:54 PM

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marble lance i said its both rune and monster

regarding energy management, is it bad if I feel like sleep in r5 nonstop

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:55 PM

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no

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most people don't farm enough r5

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:55 PM

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like I have around 20 vio runes that isn't spd grinded on my monsters

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:55 PM

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in terms of energy management

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99% of players actually farm too much giants/dragons/necro

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:56 PM

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I think I should find a balance

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2 months ago I start sleeping in r5 with the aim of grinding every single runes I'm using

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But now I still don't have enough grind, most vio grinds come from the claw crafting

marble lance Jul 31, 2024, 1:57 PM

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slim hatch 2 months ago I start sleeping in r5 with the aim of grinding every single runes ...

this is a goal even from beginner guides

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most people don't do it so yea, you'll have a lot to catch up on

slim hatch Jul 31, 2024, 1:57 PM

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my runes is pretty much farmed by doing daily 10 😦

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ok this isn't #rant-brag

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still I feel better than hitting one c1 def per hit with lushen now

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 11:40 AM

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marble lance well you have speed disadvantage with gemini and your adriana is really slow

How fast should they be to be considered ok?

merry star Aug 1, 2024, 12:04 PM

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201 from runes is only average of 26 speed for non-slot2 runes. So that’s not even a max triple before grind. There’s no set number but that’s a very slow top set if you are trying to compete at the high end of things. You don’t have any random quad speeds or at least max triples?

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 12:20 PM

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merry star 201 from runes is only average of 26 speed for non-slot2 runes. So that’s not ev...

yeah I guess so, this is the best I can get on any runes

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fastest rune is just 25+4

merry star Aug 1, 2024, 12:39 PM

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Getting grinds to +5 on all your topset runes will help some, but really you want at least base 21-22 floor for every slot. If you have a base 25 and still total +201, you are missing grinds or using some very low bases

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:14 PM

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slim hatch How fast should they be to be considered ok?

in pvp its always dependent on your level

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when you cleave things or try to outspeed defs, you always need to be mentally calculating (or just remembering from experience) what of speed advantage of disadvantage you have

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for example gemini adriana into clara. what's your speed advantage there? what about into 24 zen? 33 zen?

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then if you get outsped not infrequently, on equal speed

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it means you're slow

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:16 PM

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marble lance for example gemini adriana into clara. what's your speed advantage there? what a...

yeah I guess I'm at a okayish level now

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:16 PM

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frequently or infrequently is also tough to define

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because the goal of offense is to win like 95% of the time

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:16 PM

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ofc I lose when I fight zen +24 lead, that's 1 spd advantages

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:16 PM

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so even getting outsped 1 every 10 times

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is still bad

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:17 PM

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slim hatch ofc I lose when I fight zen +24 lead, that's 1 spd advantages

yea so you're slow

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it means you need to be more careful about what you can hit into

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:17 PM

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disadvantages

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:17 PM

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and you can still climb

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but you're slow

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:17 PM

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mb, 111+19<105+24

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:18 PM

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its close

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:18 PM

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pvp guide said I should never compete on equal ground

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:18 PM

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yes

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:19 PM

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so it's because it's a bad decision to race with zen already, not just because I'm not at my level

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:19 PM

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it's a bad idea to race like that but at the same time your swift speed is currently a big weakness for you and an easy target for improvement

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:19 PM

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I know my runes are bad for like p rank, maybe if I can get around +220 you'll consider it ok?

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:20 PM

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merry star 201 from runes is only average of 26 speed for non-slot2 runes. So that’s not ev...

max triple is even rarer than quads, thats not realistic

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realistically what you can expect from a beginner top swift set

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is something like maybe 2 swifts that are 22 + 5, 1 swift that is 21 + 5, broken 23 + 5, then a lucky quad on your account 26 + 5

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this brings you to around +208

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:22 PM

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yeah I'll keep the +210 number in mind

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:22 PM

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if you don't have 21-22 base swifts then you haven't farmed enough giants

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if you don't have any quads or other high speed runes in general not swift, you haven't farmed enough overall. or like i've seen with some other beginners you've saved up all your reapps for no reason or maybe wasted them

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if not everything is +5 grinded you haven't farmed enough raids

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:24 PM

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in short, I haven't farmed enough 🙂

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literally sleeping in raids for a month and get like 10 vio spd grind

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fuck rng

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:24 PM

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its not rng

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:24 PM

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it's actually is, I'm happy with even +3 rare grind for now

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:24 PM

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are you in isa

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:25 PM

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well I consider myself a somewhat diligent player

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:25 PM

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how many wings do you do each week

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obviously you're more diligent than the average player

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:25 PM

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marble lance are you in isa

can't really tho, due to work most sunday evening I'm occupied

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:26 PM

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and you wonder why i'm telling you to stop playing an alt

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:26 PM

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nah bro, at sunday evening I can't even play

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:27 PM

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not being able to rush is a huge disadvantage but it's not insurmountable

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:27 PM

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but it's more likely a personal problem so let's not discuss that

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:27 PM

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if you say "i can't rush" i'm not actually going to tell you haha if you can't rush then you suck

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you still do your best to get as high as you can latest you can play on sunday

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and work on your def to try to stay in top 10k

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:28 PM

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yep, gotta try every time there's an isa, just luck problem

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:29 PM

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isa is just 1 example

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my point is theres so many things you can do to keep improving and learning on one account

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that you're not doing

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both in terms of knowledge

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and in terms of actual account progression

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there's a lot more than just hitting repeat battle 30x

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isa is just 1 example

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using regular arena wings helps you learn and gives you scrolls

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playing rta helps you learn and gives you scrolls

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playing in a higher level of siege helps you learn and gives you a ton of rewards not just scrolls

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i know you have the time, you just choose to spend it on other things like helping people

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which is perfectly fine

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but you cannot complain about being unlucky or try to use that as an excuse

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now that is pure bullshit

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:31 PM

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I'll keep that in mind

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guess you walked right in my stomach

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and while that's quite uncomfortable, I have to say yeah you're right

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:32 PM

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just be honest with yourself, i will always be the first one to support whatever you enjoy doing and try to come up with solutions given your situation and how you want to play

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:33 PM

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by learning I can do so with actually playing the game, siege is running rn

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:33 PM

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i do not like it if you are not honest and just make up dumb excuses like "i don't have time" or "i have bad rng"

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:34 PM

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sorry for that then

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yes, actually learning to improve in sw isn't my top priority

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and I prefer to have 2 sw apps running on my laptop when I'm comfortable on my desk

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:37 PM

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so when we have conversations like and i'm saying you're slow

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what you could say is

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should i just put all my energy into giants and khaledrun and reapp only swift? or should i still try to do a mix, because since i can't rush sunday night i need to prioritize my def a bit more and get better vio runes?

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:38 PM

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ýe

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fucking yes

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:38 PM

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should i be sitting in r5 until literally all my top speed runes are +5 or is that a bit too much?

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:38 PM

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thanks for saying shit out loud from my brain

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those are exactly what I want to ask

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:38 PM

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i'm never going to blame you for your preferences and situation

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but you can't say shit like well i'm slow because i'm unlucky and don't have time

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:38 PM

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how should I optimize my resources, including time

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:39 PM

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marble lance but you can't say shit like well i'm slow because i'm unlucky and don't have tim...

I was impatient and it's my fault, really sorry

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:39 PM

#

my answer would be - yes you do need to farm more r5 than most people normally think, your top set should always have maxed +5 leg spd grinds

#

and as far as rune farming goes

#

definitely prioritize giants, dont do any dragons or necro

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:40 PM

#

really don't know why I couldn't say those shit

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:40 PM

#

get vio with event runes

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:40 PM

#

but it's now

marble lance Aug 1, 2024, 1:40 PM

#

your top swift not just helps your offense

#

but it also helps your defense

#

a fast swift monster on defense will get you wins

merry star Aug 1, 2024, 1:41 PM

#

marble lance realistically what you can expect from a beginner top swift set

Is fam a beginner account tho? Not expecting a 220 set right away or anything, but 201 top set seems slow for someone who wants to be in punisher or higher. Which it sounds like you agree with

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:42 PM

#

merry star Is fam a beginner account tho? Not expecting a 220 set right away or anything, b...

probably not, I don't miss a single days in 200 days

#

but I don't farm the same amount of time everyday

#

sometimes I spend hundreds of crystals daily

#

sometimes I just complete daily quest and quit

#

I expect myself to at least be stronger than the account in #1048719420870107227 , as their fastest swift is 10 slower than me

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:45 PM

#

marble lance should i just put all my energy into giants and khaledrun and reapp only swift? ...

I can't get will and destroy runes that way, so I think it's lumel

slim hatch Aug 1, 2024, 1:46 PM

#

marble lance my answer would be - yes you do need to farm more r5 than most people normally t...

Since that's the case I actually consider baleygr spd r5 teams to be ok, will try to learn one

#

thanks again for helping me grow both as a player and a person

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 9:06 AM

#

maybe it's time I drop the spd lushen

#

I don't use it anymore, his only place in sfah feel no longer worth it

marble lance Aug 2, 2024, 2:24 PM

#

this is why i didn't want to add spd lushen teams to ?ao guide

#

you're right it's just not too useful right now

#

however in siege it's a bit more useful

#

there are lots of good cleaves with spd lushen, for example julie bastet lushen, praline kabilla lushen, jamire homie lushen

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 2:29 PM

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instead of playing julie bastet lushen I'll just build dupe galleon julie bernard

marble lance Aug 2, 2024, 2:29 PM

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it's a completely different team

#

julie bastet lushen is great for something like nana sav rakan

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 2:31 PM

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marble lance julie bastet lushen is great for something like nana sav rakan

oh I see

#

well I guess I can keep him

marble lance Aug 2, 2024, 2:32 PM

#

but of course it's always still going to end up being a matter of priority

#

maybe you have things more important still

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 2:32 PM

#

hmm so it make sense to remove him

#

I'm fine with eirgar raoq kro ling ling loren for sfah

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 4:07 PM

#

I just reread Beginner's PvP and really want to talk about this part: #1048719420870107227 message

reef pawnBOT Aug 2, 2024, 4:07 PM

#

diliskar

[Message Link](#1048719420870107227 message) to #1048719420870107227
Siege offenses - bruisering continued - bruisers

Bruisers: these are built tanky to be able to take damage from a real damage threat, but aren't full tanks that you'd expect to survive forever without significant support. They're also able to output some damage themselves, which in a lot of cases may be all the damage you need on a team especially if you have destroy. Most often bruisers are HP scaling monsters (but not always - sometimes they have passives that increase their tankiness, such as Tesa). The HP scaling skills are what allows them to be built tanky but still output some damage. As an example, I'd expect a bruiser like Skogul to be able to safely tank an enemy Perna - but only if nothing else could def break that monster. Expecting to continuously tank a Perna while def broken is something I'd save for a monster with a dedicated tank role.

Bruisers are usually runed Spd/HP/HP or even HP/HP/HP (or def, if it's a def scaling monster like Tractor). If it's an atk scaling monster like Tesa, you'd see a build like Spd/CD/HP. Again Vio/Destroy is ideal for most of these, but broken sets are always ok when you're first starting out.

Example bruiser - my Vigor: https://imgur.com/a/SXPHDfV

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 4:07 PM

#

Bruisers are usually runed Spd/HP/HP or even HP/HP/HP (or def, if it's a def scaling monster like Tractor). If it's an atk scaling monster like Tesa, you'd see a build like Spd/CD/HP.

#

Yet we see Khmun, Eshir who should be built on crit, and tbh I'm still not sure with Tractor and Roid

#

what does split scaling have to do with Vigor not benefit from crit build?

merry star Aug 2, 2024, 5:13 PM

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slim hatch what does split scaling have to do with Vigor not benefit from crit build?

You have to invest in more stats in order to do damage if the mon has split scaling. Pure hp scaling lets you prioritize hp, spd, def, and cr to do damage while staying tanky. If you add attack scaling, you need to invest stats in attack and cr (and some cd potentially) to up the damage, so that takes stats away from speed or bulk

slim hatch Aug 2, 2024, 5:56 PM

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I see, tysm

slim hatch Aug 4, 2024, 8:52 AM

#

I decide I'll keep julie gbah

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I rune her on 205 tick atk/crit dmg/atk for giants and maybe make a second julie for siege

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or even easier I'll replace the slot 2 atk with slot 2 spd and make sure she's tuned to bernard

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my current julie is too weak

slim hatch Aug 4, 2024, 9:56 AM

#

#

I can't hit this def

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haegang isn't included in ?ad yet I'm having trouble with him

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he's like an aoe amduat

hybrid crystal Aug 4, 2024, 10:53 AM

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Gemini does nothing here frfr

slim hatch Aug 4, 2024, 11:05 AM

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hybrid crystal Gemini does nothing here <:frfr:1195006958827208785>

well he boost the enemy team peepolife

marble lance Aug 4, 2024, 1:23 PM

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replace caremlla with a booster

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i dont know what you mean by haegang is an aoe amduat, amduat is already aoe

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haegang boost is only 20%. you can easily work around it/outboost it

#

for example with tiana, its actually fairly common to overtune your DD (make the much faster than needed for standard tuning)

#

tiana boost is 30%, its still higher than haegang

#

for example i think i've showed my tiana dd before they are over +170

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it lets me hit things like tian lang, and haegang in this situation too

ripe idol Aug 4, 2024, 1:34 PM

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I would tianagalleon this with psam as lead and pos for Atk bar reduction

marble lance Aug 4, 2024, 1:37 PM

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ripe idol I would tianagalleon this with psam as lead and pos for Atk bar reduction

this doesn't work at all

ripe idol Aug 4, 2024, 2:06 PM

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Why not? That’s what I’ve been using against similar comps with vanessa lead, does Haegang change the equation?

slim hatch Aug 4, 2024, 2:48 PM

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marble lance replace caremlla with a booster

in normal circumstances you mean?

#

like gemini kabilla adriana leah?

marble lance Aug 4, 2024, 3:22 PM

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ripe idol Why not? That’s what I’ve been using against similar comps with vanessa lead, do...

i dont know what you mean by similar comps with vanessa lead

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haegang and triana both present big potential problems

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do you know what they do?

marble lance Aug 4, 2024, 3:23 PM

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slim hatch in normal circumstances you mean?

i mean against haegang

slim hatch Aug 4, 2024, 3:23 PM

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got it

ripe idol Aug 4, 2024, 4:07 PM

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marble lance do you know what they do?

Haegang passive is problem if they built on shield/will ur right

marble lance Aug 4, 2024, 4:08 PM

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ripe idol Haegang passive is problem if they built on shield/will ur right

what?

ripe idol Aug 4, 2024, 4:09 PM

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"When enemies remove beneficial effects of allies, all harmful effects on the ally with removed beneficial effects will be removed and the Attack Bar will be increased by 20%. [Automatic Effect]"

#

If i strip with tiana

#

and they are built on will/shield, that counts as a beneficial effect

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They will get atk bar increasement

hybrid crystal Aug 4, 2024, 4:30 PM

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Wait is that effect sum up?

surreal iron Aug 4, 2024, 4:33 PM

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no

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 10:23 AM

#

#

it's midweek, but I can see my limit up here

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 1:09 PM

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@marble lance how should I swop optimizing deva for kyledbah?

marble lance Aug 7, 2024, 1:09 PM

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you dont have to worry about ehp on her

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 1:10 PM

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oh yeah

#

fuck swop

marble lance Aug 7, 2024, 1:10 PM

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+fire = co-op dmg when it comes to artis

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its really simple to rune her

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 1:10 PM

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alr thks

marble lance Aug 7, 2024, 1:10 PM

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hit spd req, 100 cr, balance atk and cd for as much dmg as possible

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no vio

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 1:10 PM

#

I'll try, have some decent rage runes for this

fleet grail Aug 7, 2024, 1:15 PM

#

Hey 😄 I already have Vero, Verde, Spectra, Loren, Fran, Bella, Kro, Mav, Darion and Raoq 6 star. What should I 6 star next? Smth like Vigor, Icaru, Lulu? I read that Mellia and Shannon are not required to 6 star

slim hatch Aug 7, 2024, 1:15 PM

#

fleet grail Hey 😄 I already have Vero, Verde, Spectra, Loren, Fran, Bella, Kro, Mav, Dario...

#guides

#

and next time ask in your own thread

fleet grail Aug 7, 2024, 1:17 PM

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But the problem is that I keep asking people what I should 6 star and everyone says go check #guides there is nothing there... I even got muted for an hour trying to look at console 😓

ripe idol Aug 7, 2024, 1:24 PM

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fleet grail But the problem is that I keep asking people what I should 6 star and everyone s...

Make a new thread and we will figure it out

fleet grail Aug 7, 2024, 1:25 PM

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Ok, sorry. Thank you

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 2:53 AM

#

#

@marble lance the way arena works is interesting

#

I expected myself to drop straight to c1 after one night, but suprisingly I just drop to c3 due to lower than 1500 point

#

and I got hit 5 times in 10 hours

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how weird, my def is basically clara+3 bullshit

#

#

and my clara is even +109 spd to begin with

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 2:57 AM

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midweek arena is not interesting

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 2:58 AM

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haha, it's interesting because it's the first time I experience it

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goes against my expectations

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should I intentionally lower my ranks so that I won't get ambushed during rush hours?

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I need to stay around where I want to finish, do I?

merry star Aug 8, 2024, 3:03 AM

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Just use midweek as practice for your AOs

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You’ll get hit slightly more Saturday/Sunday pre rush

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:09 AM

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marble lance midweek arena is not interesting

btw, my helena is skilled to 3/7 and 6/6

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should I spend devil to max her s1, it has stun

#

#

can I leah this?

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 3:11 AM

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try it and you'll find out 🙂

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(hint: you cannot)

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:12 AM

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ok I won't

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:12 AM

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slim hatch should I spend devil to max her s1, it has stun

how about this

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 3:12 AM

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slim hatch how about this

id save your devils

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 3:13 AM

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slim hatch ok I won't

no i was being serious in terms of trying it out

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:13 AM

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marble lance no i was being serious in terms of trying it out

I actually craft the battle in mind

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 3:13 AM

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"can i hit this" is actually a pretty bad question to ask

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because honestly you really should try it

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that's what midweek arena is for

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you will learn the game better

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:13 AM

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it's likely that I will be swepted by dark ponie passive

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but yeah I'll come back and try

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:15 AM

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marble lance no i was being serious in terms of trying it out

haha I lost

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but yeah I'm sure I can't clear it now

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:16 AM

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marble lance id save your devils

adriana is my next devil target

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really helpful for cleanup imo

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:58 AM

#

#

mid week practice

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:23 AM

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who the fuck is lushen

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I forgot him

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 7:59 AM

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a bit revision on my team

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generic support build, main drawback is she's slow, have to improve overtime then

#

#

building this little buddy on spd/cr/acc and it's so damn useful with clearing shield buff

#

#

idk if this is worth, she actually do help with hitting byung, I haven't fail clearing any byung with her

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but sometimes it trigger abellio passive

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I guess it's still more beneficial

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 3:47 PM

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@marble lance just wanna confirm how should I rune leo helena jeanne offense

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so I got Leo on double will shield

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Helena maybe go vio destroy, hp/cd/hp

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then maybe Jeanne go Vio Nem/Revenge/Shield, full tank build

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do I get that right?

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:05 PM

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you want full will

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and max res

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:06 PM

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marble lance you want full will

vio will on everyone then

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:06 PM

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except leo

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:06 PM

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by max res I'd take it as 59

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:06 PM

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yes

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:06 PM

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since we use jeanne lead

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alr, will try out

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:07 PM

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marble lance yes

is it fine to build hp/cr/hp helena if I can't afford res?

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:09 PM

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some people don't do the res for helena

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i like it

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you shouldn't go cr though

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it's a leo team you dont need speed

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:14 PM

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ok, I'll try

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:17 PM

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marble lance some people don't do the res for helena

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I still haven't gem things but here is what I get

#

more precisely what I'm aiming for

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:20 PM

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you have 5 vio runes

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you need more acc

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:37 PM

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marble lance you need more acc

can I get them on arti then

#

#

+45 s2 accuracy arti, now I get 45

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:40 PM

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yea that looks better now just get 100 cr

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:41 PM

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marble lance yea that looks better now just get 100 cr

a bit hard tbh

#

maybe I'll try drop some atk, but 100 cr is tough

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:42 PM

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the cr is more important than res

#

and definitely more important than a bit more atk

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:46 PM

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Since res is all or nothing can I run 15?

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 4:48 PM

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you can see how you like it

slim hatch Aug 8, 2024, 4:50 PM

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Ok

#

For arri I'm going -water on helena, -firr on leo

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What should jeanne get on left

marble lance Aug 8, 2024, 5:08 PM

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you leave them blank and swap specifically for each def you're facing

#

if you're too lazy poor or casual then figure out the most common def you use this on, use artis for that def, and just leave them there

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 1:54 AM

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marble lance if you're too lazy poor or casual then figure out the most common def you use th...

I think it'll work on anything as long as I can keep leo passive

marble lance Aug 9, 2024, 2:00 AM

#

huh?

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 2:10 AM

#

wait a bit, I'll try to hit one and see

#

#

it isn't a strong def since no immu, but I think it's a good case to use here

#

strategy is rather easy too

#

just leo hit, jeanne provoke+invincible on self, helena turn into human and AoE nuke

#

as long as savanah don't def break into perna, I'm fine

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 2:26 AM

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marble lance huh?

#

damn this is a weak opponent yet I still lost in 4

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is it rune issue or could I have pick a better option?

#

#

I guess I misplayed t5

#

I let a def break slid in

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 2:38 AM

#

Jlh is hard into immunity right

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 2:39 AM

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oh and dark mermaid too, yeah I wasn't smart with my pick

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 2:39 AM

#

For 4/ in the first battle you could kill Theo with anti revive

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 2:39 AM

#

lemme see if I have one

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 2:39 AM

#

Something like fluff + Karl + something that can kill Juno easily

marble lance Aug 9, 2024, 2:51 AM

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slim hatch is it rune issue or could I have pick a better option?

need better team

#

typically need some premium monsters to be safe vs theo

#

for example leo, or tractor windy camilla

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 3:38 AM

#

marble lance need better team

oh so I struglled against good defs

#

it has no spd lead, can I safely cleave it

ripe idol Aug 9, 2024, 1:14 PM

#

marble lance typically need some premium monsters to be safe vs theo

Isn’t that def weak against raki

marble lance Aug 9, 2024, 1:59 PM

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ripe idol Isn’t that def weak against raki

typically need some premium monsters to be safe vs theo

#

i'm considering nat 5s to be premium

#

this def in particular is not great because there's no speed threat, so it's "weak" or "easy" to use raki (basically what furyn suggestesd with killing theo with anti revive

#

but this won't be the case for better defs with theo

brisk swift Aug 9, 2024, 7:37 PM

#

slim hatch

3 is bad also

#

Adriana Bethony is weird to begin with but tanky twins easily beats this

#

I forget but we had a pretty elegant solution that was simple to the elad Theo shit

#

I remember doing mo raki but that feels like it just loses to nem theo

tacit dragon Aug 9, 2024, 8:14 PM

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Isnt nr 1 also bad? Julie into feng doesnt seem good. Woosa can survive Julie and S3 for immunity . Then Feng can just solo

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 9:15 PM

#

Yeah is bad

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:36 PM

#

brisk swift Adriana Bethony is weird to begin with but tanky twins easily beats this

I don't know about this tanky twin teams, can you elaborate?

#

However I do believe Mihyang Adriana to be a ok choice for this, the match play out exactly how I want it to be

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

You are sniping with non boost bethony

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

tacit dragon Isnt nr 1 also bad? Julie into feng doesnt seem good. Woosa can survive Julie an...

So I could have double snipe with Praline Kahli Stella?

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

So either you’re not tuned on you run a very fast bethony

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

I run a +160 beth

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

I’d rather just praline bethony here

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

And she hit 27k

#

Per shot

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

Drop speed for more dmg

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:39 PM

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Well I have other sniper to

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:39 PM

#

Ok answer this question

#

What is the benefit of mihyang Adriana vs praline

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When would you use one over the other

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:39 PM

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Yeah I'll use Praline Cov Kahli against this

#

My beth is built to be used in Mihyang Adriana/Eshir so I'll keep it as it is

tacit dragon Aug 9, 2024, 11:41 PM

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slim hatch So I could have double snipe with Praline Kahli Stella?

I rather use bulldozer copper imesity here, cuz in t2 you can use f2p units

#

Which you havent used yet in your attacks

#

Like

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:42 PM

#

The problem I have with copper dozer is a lot of ppl at low rank run swift woods

#

So you can get dmg checked

#

And die 1v3 to laika

#

Woosa

tacit dragon Aug 9, 2024, 11:43 PM

#

That oph theo riley is just Theo being the threat. Jx probably mentioned many comps in other threads, safe counter for me is praline songseol shren and just snipe theo there

tacit dragon Aug 9, 2024, 11:44 PM

#

copper elbow The problem I have with copper dozer is a lot of ppl at low rank run swift woods

Fair, ngl I havent seen this def in ages

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:45 PM

#

I saw ppl in cv lose to this like that

#

Or just a +180 swift imme getting outsped by vio woosa

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:45 PM

#

Or can I play with immunity since no stripper?

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:45 PM

#

For feng team?

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:45 PM

#

Yes

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:45 PM

#

It depends

#

Feng and laika can kill without def break

#

They do a lot of dmg

#

Depends on what you take

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:46 PM

#

Haha thinking bour Harmonia Nora Skogul

copper elbow Aug 9, 2024, 11:46 PM

#

Harmonia is 1 turn immmu so I wouldn’t think of it like that

#

Lot of gaps

#

When you say immunity tank I think of a 3 turn unit like woosa vela Louise

slim hatch Aug 9, 2024, 11:51 PM

#

No vela so I guess Dozer Coppr

#

Guess I'll have to build dark neostone

#

Can megan darkneo+1 that

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 4:36 PM

#

@marble lance what should kyle's right arti be?

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 4:41 PM

#

Add dmg by atk or any cd

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 4:44 PM

#

got it, tysm

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 5:23 PM

#

marble lance Add dmg by atk or any cd

should I switch Nora to 286 swift build for dot offense?

#

she isn't on my main siege def and I think 286 swift still work for offense

#

tbh should I even run dot ao alongside my leah and lushen ao?

copper elbow Aug 10, 2024, 5:27 PM

#

is your whole dot ao 286

#

i personally run 239 dot offense would rather be tankier and have res if ur gonna put more stats

#

its more annoying if u move first bc then haegang doesnt do as much

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 5:29 PM

#

copper elbow i personally run 239 dot offense would rather be tankier and have res if ur gonn...

@marble lance what do you say

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 5:30 PM

#

copper elbow is your whole dot ao 286

it's pretty much required as stated in ?dotao

copper elbow Aug 10, 2024, 5:30 PM

#

they should all be the same tick and tuned

#

#

i guess this is the advice written, so then your answer is "yes make it 286"

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 5:36 PM

#

copper elbow i guess this is the advice written, so then your answer is "yes make it 286"

alr tks, I will run 286

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

i did 239 at first but 286 is definitely much better

#

there's no way even with 286 that you move first against any real def

#

ive been using this ao a lot for months

copper elbow Aug 10, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

I share runes with the siege off

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

same

copper elbow Aug 10, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

Where it is more likely

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 5:56 PM

#

but siege haegang team is different

#

you can do 239 there

#

for example i still have a bellenus for siege that i use with haegang sometimes

#

and i have it on 239

#

but cant use that for ao

#

for arena there's going to be lots of things that haegang will have trouble cutting in on

#

tritons, lora, tl, etc

#

you need the extra speed

#

and also arena plays out a lot more like a bruiser team rather than a 2nd turn cleave

#

in siege its understandable when you face stuff like clara tesa sav, 1 rica s3 and its pretty much over

#

this won't be the case when you're fighting ad camilla

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:25 PM

#

#

t4 lost because of def break

#

that AoE def break+slow from occult girl is actively harmful, feel like I need immunity

#

harmonia?

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:39 PM

#

You need to just cleave this

#

0 reason to bruiser it

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:43 PM

#

fuck it why do I forget cleaves teams

#

actually hp lead is a bit scary

#

but could have copper dozer

#

#

t1 is a bit risky nora almost died, next time I'll bring full tank instead, maybe a tesa

#

t3 failed to oneshot racuni, managed to bring the fight down to 1v1 with odin then lost

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:47 PM

#

slim hatch actually hp lead is a bit scary

it is not scary at all

silent lanceBOT Aug 10, 2024, 6:48 PM

#

Odin (Wind Lightning Emperor)

Wikia

Base

HP: 10215 — DEF: 714
ATK: 747 — SPD: 102
CR: 15 — CD: 50
ACC: 0 — RES: 40

Info

Type: Attack
Stars: 6
Devils: 11
Farmable: No

Awaken

From: Lightning Emperor

Lead

Increase the Critical Rate of ally monsters in the Guild Battles by 33%

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:48 PM

#

people always overestimate the impact of lead skills

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:48 PM

#

you mean the only one really matter is spd lead?

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:49 PM

#

hp lead doesn't make a squishy monster tanky, and will never be the difference between a cleavable def vs non cleavable def

#

same thing for spd lead

#

the presence of a spd lead doens't mean it's a spd def that you need to race

#

for example if you see something like carc molly ritesh, it has a spd lead but there's no spd threat, you can cleave it with your 5th string swift set

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:51 PM

#

slim hatch fuck it why do I forget cleaves teams

this is a big problem

#

the first thing you do for any def is to ask "can i lushen this"

#

next thing you ask is "can i praline this"

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:52 PM

#

Yes yes

#

Aghh I was so fucking dunh

#

Dumb

#

It's too obvious

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:52 PM

#

slim hatch t3 failed to oneshot racuni, managed to bring the fight down to 1v1 with odin th...

????

#

what monster failed to 1 shot a racuni

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:52 PM

#

The team run a couple of shield

#

Taru

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:53 PM

#

what does your taru look like

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:53 PM

#

Fast enough to be tuned with Adriana

#

Damn

#

Yes it's my fault

#

Gonna remember that next time

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:55 PM

#

is it runed to be used with your praline?

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:55 PM

#

No sorry

#

It's my fault, I forgot about that

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

congrats never in my life have i heard about a racuni surviving a single target ignore def nuker

surreal iron Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

slim hatch

why not just garo draco khali third one, and kill odin

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

actually this is a good point

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

Oh yeah

marble lance Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

i didnt even see the odin

#

its a bad offense

#

you can get 1v3'ed

slim hatch Aug 10, 2024, 6:56 PM

#

I need to play more siege

#

I'll test and play with my guild defs for more experiences

#

Good thing is, you don't see me lose 3 4 matches anymore

#

Just 1 match due to skill issues

slim hatch Aug 11, 2024, 3:41 AM

#

@marble lance I've max skilled Helena, should Adriana be my next target

marble lance Aug 11, 2024, 4:54 AM

#

why did you do helena before adriana

slim hatch Aug 11, 2024, 5:02 AM

#

because I've already skillup helena

#

then I got leah and start using adriana consistently

#

but nvm, adriana is definitely my current target

marble lance Aug 11, 2024, 5:06 AM

#

oh it sounded like you just recently decided to skill up helena nvm

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 12:39 PM

#

marble lance oh it sounded like you just recently decided to skill up helena nvm

I maxed Adriana s2 and s3, should I also max s1?

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 12:41 PM

#

You can skip it for now and come back later

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 12:41 PM

#

great, tysm

#

now to think about my next target

#

Leo is fine unskilled I guess

#

So I want to properly play Bolverk teams

#

Either Aaliyah or Amelia will be my target

#

which one should I go for

hybrid crystal Aug 13, 2024, 1:33 PM

#

Aaliyah can work without skill up, u just spam s4 clueless

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 1:36 PM

#

traditionally people use amelia with bolv, although aaliyah is pretty much just as good

#

however if you have both, aaliyah is good in more other places such as with feng

#

so it is better to save amelia for bolv

#

both are sort of usable without skillups, amelia moreso because you can just leave her in human form forever

#

if your goal is to just make a bolv team i wouldn't skill up either of those for now

#

if you have a feng or something else to use with aaliyah, id consider doing aaliyah

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:03 PM

#

marble lance if you have a feng or something else to use with aaliyah, id consider doing aali...

what are something else to use with aaliyah, def based bruisers?

#

not what I have for now btw

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:03 PM

#

yea feng is ideal, but i mean you can still use her as a generic op support

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:04 PM

#

maybe I can start playing some rta?

#

for now I think my team will be around leo, so it's leo haegang helena

#

I tried to watch seanb video, it's pretty much the only thing I can come up with for now

#

maybe I'll save devils in the mean time

#

damn I feel so hesitate to start rta

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:08 PM

#

slim hatch damn I feel so hesitate to start rta

this is your biggest problem overall

#

not just rta

#

but it's a super common problem

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:08 PM

#

never try to do stuff you mean?

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:09 PM

#

in other pvp games ive seen it called ladder anxiety

#

it's just a general fear of playing against other players

#

so you try to make any excuses possible to avoid it

#

the easiest excuse to make in summoners war is "i'm not ready, i want to build my teams perfectly before i start, i want to have the right monsters, i want to have things skilled up, blah blah blah"

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:10 PM

#

I see, you saw me through again

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:11 PM

#

it's not you in this case

#

i mean anyone asking "help me build a team for rta, i want to start playing rta"

#

is suffering from this problem

#

the correct answer and move for all of these people is to literally just hit find match

#

the game gives you support monsters to start with so you dont even have to rune anything. but of course you can just throw some random runes on your own monsters too

#

no one ever is ever truly ready or has things prepped perfectly

#

it's a constant learning and evolving process

#

and you will never evolve or learn from just theorycrafting on swop or having people answer your hna questions

#

you only do so from gaining real experience playing

#

if you play some and enjoy rta, now you have better questions to ask about deviling stuff

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:13 PM

#

I get the idea

#

ok I'll start rta around that core

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:13 PM

#

you can say - well i really like my leo for rta, now i think devil priority for him is higher even though he doesn't need it as much for siege

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:14 PM

#

Idk yet tbh

#

like my main focus is still siege and I have sth that may want skillups, say dominic, aaliyah as general bruisers

#

or maybe dupe galleon, vigor that need skillups

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:19 PM

#

marble lance you can say - well i really like my leo for rta, now i think devil priority for ...

I feel like I have a bad habit of never asking about nat5 when I pull them

#

I've updated my swarfarm, right now I have 3 choices for siege in mind: dominic, aaliyah and bellenus

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:20 PM

#

can you link your swarfarm again

#

also hard to keep track because you have 2 accounts

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:21 PM

#

sure

#

https://swarfarm.com/profile/AnUser/

#

I'll drop that alt

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:21 PM

#

how many devils do you have

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:21 PM

#

for now, 1

#

I've just finished my Adriana

marble lance Aug 13, 2024, 2:25 PM

#

i have you less than 10 there really is no point in wasting time thinking about it

slim hatch Aug 13, 2024, 2:31 PM

#

haha ok then

slim hatch Aug 19, 2024, 7:34 AM

#

When should I use grinds? Right when I get a rune I want to keep?

brisk swift Aug 20, 2024, 12:38 PM

#

That's honestly up to you and what type of rune it is

There's a lot of conflicting opinions on this but realistically speaking you shouldn't be keeping a rune unless you plan on using it
But there are inevitably going to be a lot of violent runes you want to max purple (your best ones especially) or even fish for legend on
Same to an extent with swift but less so

#

I think if it isn't a super common set you kinda want to just use up your grinds, you are going to get so many more blade grinds than violent grinds in terms of needs

#

At the same time some people say grinding a rune and having it sit in your inventory is pointless and that will inevitably happen

#

My personal rule is if a rune that isn't super main set drops that I know I will keep/use then I instantly all in my grinds for max purple
If it's main set (vio really is the main one here swift to some extent) then I wait to find where I want to use it generally, unless I know 150% this rune is going to get used soon

#

I think it's different if we are talking about legend grinds too though

slim hatch Aug 20, 2024, 2:29 PM

#

tysm, I get the idea

slim hatch Aug 21, 2024, 1:11 AM

#

#

what does this part really mean?

#

I don't get it

#

or maybe my english is too bad to understand this?

#

does this mean PvE can just have some minimum rolls, while PvP need our rolls to be higher than average? So you'd want a blue crit rune to roll 18+ crit instead of just 12-17?

granite dragon Aug 21, 2024, 1:14 AM

#

think probsz was going more for, pve runes can be not as efficient as long as they get you the stats you need

while pvp runes tend to want to be more efficient (less dead stats/quality rolls)

slim hatch Aug 21, 2024, 1:16 AM

#

granite dragon think probsz was going more for, pve runes can be not as efficient as long as th...

does that higher than average mean a 6+ crit roll like I presumed?

granite dragon Aug 21, 2024, 1:16 AM

#

a more general term, also this was writen pre-ah release

slim hatch Aug 21, 2024, 1:16 AM

#

so that's a yes?

#

and what does that nem<energy ariel part mean?

granite dragon Aug 21, 2024, 1:19 AM

#

no idea

slim hatch Aug 21, 2024, 1:19 AM

#

fuck it

#

our rune guide is messy as fuck

#

https://tenor.com/view/chores-cleaning-housework-tom-and-jerry-housewife-gif-20706096

Tenor

#

it's time to clean

primal salmon Aug 21, 2024, 3:59 PM

#

slim hatch

I'm just going to give my opinion here. I think he's basically saying "you put a nem on your Ariel, but you lose out on so many stats from a well rolled Energy rune that he's actually weaker than he could be"

#

I think it's a small provision towards the "sets over stats" in PvP. As in it isn't worth losing 50k HP just to get Nem set on Ariel.

#

But that's just how I'm reading it. I could be way off. Just my 2 cents. 🙂

marble lance Aug 21, 2024, 4:26 PM

#

you're not way off in terms of that's what it meant, but at the same time fam has a good point

#

it's not a good guide

#

i don't agree with it and never did

slim hatch Aug 28, 2024, 3:09 PM

#

#

is there something I do wrong with swop?

surreal iron Aug 28, 2024, 3:11 PM

#

it counts khali speed buff, put any other mon on same base instead of her

slim hatch Aug 28, 2024, 3:25 PM

#

surreal iron it counts khali speed buff, put any other mon on same base instead of her

damn, can this also be used to tune adriana teams?

merry star Aug 28, 2024, 3:26 PM

#

Just use swgt if you’re tuning with speed buff

surreal iron Aug 28, 2024, 3:31 PM

#

slim hatch damn, can this also be used to tune adriana teams?

You are using speed up artifacts for those, swop doesn't support them

slim hatch Aug 28, 2024, 3:33 PM

#

surreal iron You are using speed up artifacts for those, swop doesn't support them

pretty sure jx explained how spd up arti is kind of bad

surreal iron Aug 28, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

Oh if you mean something like double snipe for siege then that's true

#

No idea if swop would work for tuning mihyang adriana sonia for example, since i started using swgt i haven't tried much with swop

marble lance Aug 28, 2024, 4:28 PM

#

swop cannot be used to tune adriana teams

#

there is a bug with kahli because of her spd buff

#

you should still use swop to tune praline teams

#

just replace kahli with some other monster that has same base spd

slim hatch Aug 28, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

Got it

#

What abt bernard?

marble lance Aug 28, 2024, 4:35 PM

#

bernard is fine

slim hatch Aug 28, 2024, 4:35 PM

#

Tks

slim hatch Aug 29, 2024, 1:35 AM

#

marble lance bernard is fine

you did mentioned before that lacking damage is a common reason for double snipe to fail

#

is there a safe number I'd aim for, like 45k without +elemental?

marble lance Aug 29, 2024, 1:31 PM

#

no

slim hatch Aug 31, 2024, 12:27 AM

#

marble lance no

U mean I'm still supposed to tune them with my booster regarless how much damage I do

lime osprey Aug 31, 2024, 12:31 AM

#

slim hatch is there a safe number I'd aim for, like 45k without +elemental?

you always want as much damage as possible

slim hatch Sep 2, 2024, 4:12 AM

#

How do I prioritize my fastet swift set

#

Should I let my siege def Orion get the fastet one and swap it to my offense booster when I need them?

marble lance Sep 2, 2024, 5:48 AM

#

yes

slim hatch Sep 2, 2024, 1:51 PM

#

marble lance yes

got it, thanks

slim hatch Sep 2, 2024, 4:10 PM

#

@marble lance I can't find the bruiser AO options in #1048719420870107227

#

Do you mean in the ISA part like Khmun Imesity Copper Dozer part?

ripe idol Sep 2, 2024, 4:30 PM

#

There are bruiser ao options in ?ao

slim hatch Sep 2, 2024, 4:45 PM

#

ripe idol There are bruiser ao options in ?ao

I only see the Haegang one

#

Others are premium cleave options

ripe idol Sep 2, 2024, 4:52 PM

#

slim hatch I only see the Haegang one

you are right

slim hatch Sep 2, 2024, 4:53 PM

#

Seems like jx forgot abt them

#

Certain bruise teams like Feng x2 Leo can even match some cleave

marble lance Sep 2, 2024, 5:28 PM

#

i didn't forget anything, they're not good

#

i talked about bruisering in isa. i also mention how it's valid if you want to auto swords during midweek or something

marble lance Sep 2, 2024, 5:31 PM

#

slim hatch Certain bruise teams like Feng x2 Leo can even match some cleave

some people have good ads and aren't try harding in arena. i can end guardian without rushing, so can i make the claim that the best strategy for getting guardian in arena is to not rush?

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:06 PM

#

@marble lance can you correct how I understand the jamire lhomie +1 team?

#

from what I see, we have swift lhomie get first turn and use s3, +1 nuke, jamire reset, lhomie s3 into +1 nuke again, then jamire help cleanup the rest

#

yak told me I can nuke 3 time by having jamire > nuke > lhomie instead, but is that viable?

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:30 PM

#

both of you are dumb just look up a video

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:32 PM

#

marble lance both of you are dumb just look up a video

I hope you mean thí

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVU8JUW1pc

YouTube

ryan reynord

Jamire homunculus julie

▶ Play video

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

this video is correct

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

so we have jamire s1 > lhomie s3 > nuke > jamire s3 > lhomie s3 into s2 (idk why s2 here not first turn) > nuke

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

i mean im not referring to any 1 specific video, just telling you to go google a guide

#

this is a common standard team

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

slim hatch so we have jamire s1 > lhomie s3 > nuke > jamire s3 > lhomie s3 into s2 (idk why...

read skills

#

and think through it

#

you can do it i believe in you

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:34 PM

#

this way we have a non buffed nuke into buffed nuke

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:35 PM

#

marble lance you can do it i believe in you

lmfao, ok I'll try

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:39 PM

#

marble lance read skills

I got the idea, thank you

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:39 PM

#

are you sure

#

explain it to me

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:39 PM

#

ok teacher

#

so the turn order is jamire > homie > julie

#

jamire and homie have to outspd the enemy, so we have jamire do random shit, homie fill atb and buff julie spd, now julie is the fastest monster on the battlefield and pew pew

#

then jamire s3 > homie s3 because we are 100 ATB and they just move first due to faster spd, but now homie spd buff herself and she is the fastest mons (faster than julie) then use s2 on julie, julie do stronger pew pew

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:42 PM

#

very good

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:42 PM

#

marble lance both of you are dumb just look up a video

@dry totem you are just as dumb as me

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:42 PM

#

jamire does not do random shit though

#

jamire is runed as a dd

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

why didn't the guy in the vid use s2 first?

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

don't poke something not on will you may trigger nem

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

slim hatch why didn't the guy in the vid use s2 first?

what?

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

marble lance don't poke something not on will you may trigger nem

yeah rando poke sorry

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:44 PM

#

yea i also meant he does good damage too

#

really important since your first nuke is without atk buff

#

its not very common to use aoe dd here like julie or lushesn

#

because of the threat of nem

#

much more common to use single target like taru or sonia

#

or if you're rich, ian is bis

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:46 PM

#

slim hatch why didn't the guy in the vid use s2 first?

if you use s2 then the enemy moves before you can reset and do it all again...

#

the whole point is that you get 1 non atk buffed jamire hit, then 1 non atk buffed DD hit, 1 atk buffed DD hit, then 1 final atk buffed jamire hit ALL before any enemy monster moves even once

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:47 PM

#

I see

#

about targeting, are we hunting for non swift def?

#

I don't think we can outspd anything with 24 lead+101 lhomie base

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

then dont build this comp

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

you mean this comp is used to outspd

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

of course. all good defs have a speed threat

#

all cleaves have to be able to outspeed some swift threat

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:50 PM

#

marble lance all cleaves have to be able to outspeed some swift threat

I'm not experienced enough to understand this

#

it's partially the reason why I can't write the cleave teams guide

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:50 PM

#

that's what i've been telling you

#

you don't need to tell it back to me

dry totem Sep 4, 2024, 3:50 PM

#

slim hatch <@436183328576503810> you are just as dumb as me

smug

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:51 PM

#

marble lance of course. all good defs have a speed threat

so jamire and lhomie is on fastest swift

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:51 PM

#

homie is

#

jamire is easy with his high base spd

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:51 PM

#

and we are trying to outspd some really slow comp maybe like a clara comp

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

yea the most common things you'll see this against are clara

#

or for example seara jeogun theo

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

it's also too risky to deal with zen+19

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:53 PM

#

i dont know what is an example of zen + 19

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:53 PM

#

if for some reason some guy run khmun+zen+1

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:53 PM

#

yea but thats not good

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:53 PM

#

and yeah you're right

#

chandra is 24 lead

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:54 PM

#

another big thing you can use this on is tian lang

#

there's no atb boosts on this team

#

people dont really run TL without spd lead anymore at higher levels because its so easy to get around him these days

#

but you'll probably see a lot of TL with no spd lead at lower levels

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

can you tell me one real thing about all these swift booster things? I always think non-Dova Lushen, Tiana and Praline can't really race things and only be used on slower bruiser def, and they are fine to just be like 300 cmb SPD and be done with it?

#

while others cleave must be on fastest swift to race?

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 3:59 PM

#

i just swap around fastest swift set

#

i dont have anything that's "fine to be like 300 cmb spd"

#

the only time its relevant to use slower swift set is in wgb

#

and in wgb you can almost always find something less spd threatening to use a slower swift set against

#

also beyond all of this

#

you're in a guild

#

a lot of the time you can get info from a guildie that hit the same def before you

#

both siege and wgb

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 4:01 PM

#

marble lance i dont have anything that's "fine to be like 300 cmb spd"

you did mentioned a common reason for snipe to fail is lacking damage, is there any real way to solve that

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 4:02 PM

#

yes

#

farm giants

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 4:02 PM

#

beside just farm better rune and keep focus on crit rate and spd while scavenging for atk and crit dmg?

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 4:03 PM

#

marble lance farm giants

yeah, the best and only answer, but I get the idea

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 6:54 PM

#

marble lance i just swap around fastest swift set

Now I remember Therion told me somewhere that I shouldn't have all snipers tuned into my fastest Praline, what is your opinion abt this

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 6:55 PM

#

You have to provide context

#

When you are hitting a defense that realistically speaking doesn't have a significant speed threat, specifically if you aren't using covenant/Claire then using your fastest set is not necessarily best
When you're getting started in siege you should just focus on runing up snipe comps, which you are still in the process of. You shouldn't be constantly rune swapping. It's unrealistic for a new player to be able to tune every single snipe unit they have to their top set on swift while having enough damage

#

If you aren't pushing super high siege then you should just rune your units and not minmax everything. If you don't have enough good runes, go farm more

#

You can get jx opinion on it but I literally piloted summoner1722

#

Everything was runed

#

Swapping top swift set around is a good habit to get into but it shouldn't be necessary at the level you are playing at

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 7:02 PM

#

I get it like this: if I'm in a low guild like mid g2 sub g3 one then I don't need fastest swift on slow booster and can just be like 300 cmb spd, while in high g3 even Teon should be able to race

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 7:02 PM

#

Uh

#

I don't like this example

#

With teon you should probably just swap top set

#

He's slow as fuck and him having more speed does not reduce damage on the unit being boosted

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 7:03 PM

#

So how abt Praline

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 7:05 PM

#

You can do it however you want to
I opted to rune multiple snipes rather than rune swapping every time
That was also when mana was a really dry resource for players trying to push hard in siege without strong accounts

#

Mana also isn't needed to test anymore which is a blessing

#

Both ways are fine. If you are planning on switching DD sets too you're fine. Depends on how much mana you want to use. I would opt to not rune swap where you don't have to until you start pushing hard.

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 7:06 PM

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Idk how you can swapp snipes set, when every monster has different stat

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 7:06 PM

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People have different ways

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You can set up a few sets. One of the sets should be fast enough to make it so your slowest unit you will use with praline will be tuned to praline and just accept that some of the snipe units you use will have slightly more speed than is necessary

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That's probably the lowest effort option

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 7:13 PM

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Noted, it's better to waste some spd than using a weak sniper

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Tysm

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 7:20 PM

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summoner1722 is like over 2 years old by now

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the game changes, there's been multiple buffs to mana, as well as QOL life changes to make swapping easier

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not to mention the constant power creep as the game gets older

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there's always going to be more and more OP accounts with op runes sitting in super low siege

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swift sets on boosters is easy to swap around, dd sets you're right is much trickier

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there are some monsters where you can do it if they have same awakenings, for example cov and claire both have cr awakening can be swapped. you can just overtune speed by a bit but otherwise they are same

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kahli does not have cr awakening so you wouldn't swap a set between kahli and cov

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in the end though you gotta just play and figure out what you're losing to and what you need

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 7:30 PM

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marble lance the game changes, there's been multiple buffs to mana, as well as QOL life chang...

We still had a lot of less experienced players with mana problems in CV
I was absent for 4 months so not sure how much has changed but I know we had one player who farmed a lot and was always swapping and literally my guy was trying to farm mana before it was time for siege

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Like I'm sure if I made a new account today I'd be able to do it fine but newer players make a lot of mistakes I feel

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That's all that concerns me

marble lance Sep 4, 2024, 7:32 PM

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swapping just your top swift set around should be fine, don't swap more than that

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from a lot of these siege threads recently

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people getting outsped seems to be a common loss reason

brisk swift Sep 4, 2024, 7:33 PM

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Ahhh

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I see

slim hatch Sep 4, 2024, 11:19 PM

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marble lance swapping just your top swift set around should be fine, don't swap more than tha...

So swapping top swift set around and try to tune snipers to them

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And I can consider using a same fast nuker set between similar stats nukers

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Noted

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 12:32 AM

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I've been looking around for a template of Odin def

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Comon template seems like Odin buffer spd/res lead bruiser

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For buffer it seems like Adriana is bis, while Bastet and Riley is the same

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Tesa and Khmun seems like 2 most common bruisers, also see Kinki mentioned

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 12:40 AM

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Kinki on defense sucks now

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Odin Riley tesa still will catch griefers honestly

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Clara/Carcano Adriana Odin is good if you have adriana

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:39 AM

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As for runing I think it's

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Sth like Fatal/Will or Rage/Will on Odin, on tanky spd/cd/hp build as odin doesn't gain much from Vio

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Then just have Shield somewhere, this allow Odin to start with 2 stack, get 3 stack from Adriana and kaboom someone

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Is it correct?

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Btw is Adriana team>Riley=Bastet?

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 2:53 AM

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how are you going to update beginner pvp if you haven't even read it closely to begin with

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 3:17 AM

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I'm not going to anymore, and if my memory serve me right I don't see specific Odin def guide there

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We get a mention of Tesa Riley Odin and that's it

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 11:58 AM

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This is one of the first things mentioned in beginner pvp

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When talking about building defenses

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And no Riley does not = bastet in this format, Odin Riley tesa is infinitely better than bastet

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Would reread through the building defenses section again

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This is not Odin specific

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And don't run Odin bastet tesa, that is a really bad defense

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 12:19 PM

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brisk swift This is one of the first things mentioned in beginner pvp

I'm sorry but I can't really find specific infos abt Odin

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 12:20 PM

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brisk swift And no Riley does not = bastet in this format, Odin Riley tesa is infinitely bet...

Yeah I meant to compare their specific teams Tesa Riley Odin vs Khmun Bastet Odin

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 12:33 PM

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slim hatch I'm sorry but I can't really find specific infos abt Odin

English isn't your native language?

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I had just said it's not Odin specific

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It's OK, I will help you

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All defenses should be built on violent with very little exception

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For beginners

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You really want to just rune everything violent especially

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But really people just rune shit violent forever

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Odin should be on violent. Building him on rage is really bad, or really anything off violent

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Keep in mind with Odin Riley tesa, Odin doesn't get 5 stacks immediately, and that is OK

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This defense has been quite thoroughly solved at this point but

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That's not something that most people who play siege know how to deal with still

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Or if they do

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They only know like

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Mephisto Shren Kona lol

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 12:50 PM

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brisk swift English isn't your native language?

well yeah, I'm Vietnamese

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but I said this after rechecking, and sorry didn't know you talk abt runing

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I really read beginner pvp even more than my actual university lectures

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and we already know each other for a while, I'm still a decent helper and ofc I won't say shit like "vigor is runed on swift"

silent lanceBOT Sep 5, 2024, 12:56 PM

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Odin (Wind Lightning Emperor)

Wikia

3. Legacy of Knowledge (Passive)

Attacks the enemy while ignoring the enemy's Defense by 15% for every Knowledge you have whenever you attack. If you have 5 Knowledge, use all of your Knowledge to attack while ignoring the enemy's Defense and having attribute advantage. In addition, if you get defeated while having Knowledge, you will use all of your Knowledge to be revived with 20% HP per Knowledge used. [Automatic Effect] (Reusable in 11 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Pos. Effects

Ignore DEF (15%)
Revive (20%)
Spend Knowledge
Elemental Advantage

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:01 PM

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my concern is just pretty simple "odin doesn't have a real skill to cycle, he has a 8 turn cd passive, so maybe I can rune him non vio"

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and I had to ask you to confirm

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:02 PM

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slim hatch I really read beginner pvp even more than my actual university lectures

It's OK, there's a lot of information & I'm not talking down to you at all

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That's ok

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What do you mean he has an 8 turn CD passive?

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:03 PM

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silent lance

I mean this

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:03 PM

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His revive? That isn't too relevant in regards to violent

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Oh but he can ignore defense any time he has 5 stacks

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You know this right?

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And it scales regardless

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Like he is still ignoring 45% of defense on 3 stacks no matter what

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:05 PM

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so 2 weaker vio nuke>1 strong rage nuke

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tks for confirming

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:06 PM

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Absolutely

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:06 PM

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I just don't like how jx seems kinda harsh about this matter

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:06 PM

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Jx is always harsh

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It's not a bad thing

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:06 PM

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or if he want to be harsh, reply to the trash message he meant to

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:07 PM

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He is very stern in the way he teaches

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:07 PM

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so I can locate where I fuck up

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:07 PM

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I understand

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The part that talks about how important violent runes are

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It can't be over emphasized

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When I teach people about defense I repeat it multiple times

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It has to be violent

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Despair is okay too for some monsters, and again swift is an option for some too. But that isn't the way generally, you want to add that chance that a monster just takes 5 turns in a row and you win

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I've had losses like this before

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If that was runed off violent

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I can never lose this way

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:10 PM

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ah this is basic def knowlege, I understood it thoroughly

brisk swift Sep 5, 2024, 1:10 PM

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Maybe you misunderstand Odin specifically here

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Especially in the context of this defense

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He doesn't get 5 stacks immediately

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:12 PM

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yeah, now I know why

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 1:14 PM

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i'm only harsh if you ask bad or lazy questions or confidently say wrong things

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i call people out if they deserved to be called out, doesn't matter who they are

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i think i'm pretty fair about this, because at the same time i give credit where it's due. i often compliment people when they ask good questions

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there's this big part in siege def portion of beginner pvp that says you should only be using vio

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it clearly says everything should be on vio, and then clearly mentions the exceptions

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so when you propose something else, especially an extremely meta unit like odin to not be on vio, it makes me feel bad because it means you've either not read this

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or you're just ignoring it and thinking you're special or it doesn't apply to you or i didn't consider any common exceptions and i myself wrote a lazy bad guide

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there are ways for you to ask questions

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in a way that doesn't make me feel bad

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and to show that you have read and considere dthis

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for example you could ask "i know the guide says everythink should be on vio, but it doesn't seem like odin benefits that much from vio?"

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acknowledging that you've utilized your resources and done your research first will help a lot

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when discussing these things with me

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 1:21 PM

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marble lance or you're just ignoring it and thinking you're special or it doesn't apply to yo...

this is a bit more similar to "odin is special"

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but you're right, I could have word it better

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I'm sorry

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your teaching mindset remind me of my dad, and I guess you're about my dad age

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 1:36 PM

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probably not just a teaching mindset but could be a generational difference between how we communicate online

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i was always taught to think before i speak, and i treat chatting on discord not really the same as a 1 on 1 conversation that you may have with a friend in real time in real life

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at least in a channel like this

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i often double check things before i say anything, i'll edit my messages several times before pressing enter, i'll reread and edit them if i make mistakes

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i don't say anything if i'm not confident in my answer

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and i guess younger generations treat these online mediums a bit more casually just like if you were talking with a friend in real life

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so maybe i just have different expectations

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:02 PM

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marble lance at least in a channel like this

wouldn't you think it's better to be flexible?

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like is a teacher a really good one if he can't be a decent father figure?

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 2:04 PM

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i'm not actually trying to be a father figure or teacher here

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i like discussing the game with people who have a similar mindset as me

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that is all

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:05 PM

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well to me you are, but maybe yeah we have different expectations

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 2:05 PM

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i'm not here to seek validation or approval from others, even if they are some sort of mentee figure

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:06 PM

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thanks for your help as usual

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about runing clara adriana odin, I'll assume the optimal route is vio/will on odin then vio/shield on either clara and adriana?

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this way turn odin can start nuking with 5 stack right from the start

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@marble lance

marble lance Sep 5, 2024, 2:30 PM

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yes

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:33 PM

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got it

slim hatch Sep 5, 2024, 2:34 PM

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marble lance yes

Leo
Tiana Galleon
Bolv
Mihyang Adriana
Dot Haegang
Jamire Homie
Leah

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7 types of premium offenses to note so far

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Oh I also stumbled upon a message from you about mihyang chimera cleave, so that we can snipe a target twice

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I spectaculate that we nuke with chimera s2 first, then nuke the revived weaker version with mihyang and start 3v2 things, am I right?

slim hatch Sep 6, 2024, 3:17 AM

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@marble lance I want to ask about swift set

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for siege def the swift booster/stripper will be runed on fastest swift and swap to booster if needed

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but what about arena def one like triton?

marble lance Sep 6, 2024, 3:19 AM

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what about it?

slim hatch Sep 6, 2024, 3:21 AM

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we can't swap between adriana and triton right?

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should triton or adriana be on 2nd fastest swift?

marble lance Sep 6, 2024, 3:22 AM

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i put my fastest swift on def for rush, i dont use it for offense

#Fam's help thread