Fam's help thread

[hard trellis]

Is there really a spd threat? All of em except sav have a p slow base

[slim hatch]

it has nothing to do with base spd

Most of the "spd threat" have a booster that can outspd them, but the fact that it tried to force you play a spd cleave to outspd sav/bastet is enough to consider spd threat

[slim hatch]

I made a table of good f2p siege def mons based on what provided in the guides, SeanB's video minus some not really popular option like Fuuki

@marble lance Are there adjustments I can make

[hybrid crystal]

when did iunu has def break

[cyan steeple]

whole table looks a bit scuffed but ye iunu does not have a def break

and u wouldnt take these monsters for "def break"

[marble lance]

iunu has brand which functionally is pretty much def break, i get it

i don't like this categories though, why not just divide them into the 3 categories that are suggested for building a siege def, spd lead stripper bruiser?

doing this sort of table for siege def just overall isn't as useful as say offense

on offense you have to make a lot of different offenses and it's super f2p friendly where some of the best offenses are just f2p

that's not the case for def

on def you only need a few good defs and premium options are much better here. you have to identify what your premium siege def mons are and then build around them

[slim hatch]

I did the thinking process like in beginners pvp: more than one threat source, anti cleave (but it's also fit other categories and therefore omitted), def breaks and strips

I also don't see monsters like riley or harmonia fit in any of that categories

[slim hatch]

yeah but at least it helps when identifying what kind of defs we want to build

it's the usual process of: you try to come up with something yourself, then throw it up here, ask

so basically you a one carc vigor triana def like usual

then the next one might be a clara theo iunu, or even clara theo sav

then maybe a mihyang cichlid liu mei

well you get the idea

[slim hatch]

don't you consider them when building your def?

[marble lance]

because riley and harmonia actually are bad and aren't used in any good siege def

triana is good because she can be built as a bruiser, and should be built as a bruiser. tank triana build is just a special more niche build you use if you want to make your whole def tanky and trap a cleave

riley is only reasonable with very specific other monsters, namely odin

(and even then its still not a top tier def)

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

that's why my thinking process is just 1 category for each of the slots. you have 4 categories, a siege def has 3 monsters

[slim hatch]

Wait a bit I'll try to reorganize them

[marble lance]

the better monsters in each category already have those anti cleave properties, or rng, or def breaks that are important

it's much more common for multiple monsters on your def to have def breaks or anti cleave than multiple monsters with spd lead, or aoe/random strip

[slim hatch]

hmm that's a bit new to me

I don't recall having spd lead is mandatory somewhere

but I'll implement them in my siege def sections

[slim hatch]

is carc vigor triana a good def anymore?

I see it lack a stripper

[marble lance]

it's great at lower levels, obviously not a top tier def

but it was carefully recommended as the monsters are some of the most important for both offense + defense

[slim hatch]

take a while but here it is

[slim hatch]

took me a while but here it is

there's not a lot of f2p stripper, should we consider elsha and chilling

but both of them are single target no random strip

for additional spd lead optionm, maybe her?

[silent lance]

Eliza (Wind Cyborg)

Wikia

1. Flying Kick

Attacks the enemy to decrease the Defense for 2 turns with a 50% chance.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

2. Crescent Kick

Attacks the enemy to deal damage that ignores all damage reduction effects. The target defeated by this attack cannot be revived during the battle. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

6.0*{ATK}

3. Self Repair (Passive)

Recovers your HP by 20% if you gain a turn while having 50% or below HP. Increases the damage by up to 75% according to your HP condition if you attack the enemy while having more than 50% HP. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

spd lead and s1 def break, kind of decent

[marble lance]

you can put clara in both categories

chilling is fine to add, elsha is usable but i think a bit too niche for htis

[slim hatch]

chilling is a stripper or bruiser

[marble lance]

both

also stripper is less important on 4* so its fine if you have just a few single target ones

[marble lance]

no i dont like her

if you want to add another one can do galleon

but really there's no reason to have that many options

[slim hatch]

is eshir a valid choice?

[marble lance]

no one is going to have 5 f2p siege defs

[marble lance]

sure

[slim hatch]

yeah I get the idea

I don't see a lot of chilling nowaday

[marble lance]

just leave it as cichlid orion clara as strippers its fine

[slim hatch]

has chilling outdated?

single target strip isn't reliable, so I think he lean more on the bruiser side

[silent lance]

Chilling (Water Jack-o'-lantern)

Wikia

3. The Cunning (Passive)

Steals a beneficial effect from the enemy target when landing an attack. Your Attack Speed increases according to the number of beneficial effects currently on you. In addition, recovers your HP by 10% whenever you steal one beneficial effect from the enemy. [Automatic Effect]

Pos. Effects

Increase SPD
Self-Heal (10%)

Neg. Effects

Steal Buff
Remove Buff

provided by SWARFARM

[marble lance]

yea

[slim hatch]

Do you rune him on tick?

Oh obviously yes

[marble lance]

well he's a lot trickier

since he gets speed from buffs and he even has spd buff

also higher up if he does get used, he's used as an outspeed threat

[slim hatch]

I see, I'll add him in the bruiser section

I guess that's enough f2p options, I can't recall of other meta options to add in

maybe they aren't important enough for me to care

[slim hatch]

there's this particular tier list made by sei

from what I see, it's pretty good, the tops tier are viable siege mons mentioned in beginners pvp

there're still some questionable option tho, for example the water taoist I have never seen before, or fuuki, wind carc

especially fuuki, I read his skill and on theory he seems great

[marble lance]

what is that

a generic nat 4 tier list?

anything generic for the entire game overall is going to be completely useless

it's just a for fun thing that's great for content creators

it has literally 0 use

like how would you use this information?

[slim hatch]

Well at least it's not the sss, ss, s tier like other bad tier lists

it still imply some directions like which one to keep dupes of, which one can kept one

but yeah it's useless in general

[marble lance]

but it doesn't at all

or at least it's completely wrong

you don't need clara dupe

half the things in the "op but build one" are monsters that siege mains have 10x of

[slim hatch]

Damn

Julie

Yeah I forgot about that

[marble lance]

and i don't know what strong in specific content means, what's the difference between that and the tier above or below it

the names for the tiers seem meaningless and it actually is secretly just sss ss s

[slim hatch]

Sei is a reputated sw player

[marble lance]

he is a reputed content creator

[slim hatch]

I can't remember but he played swc one year

[marble lance]

the only thing he's trustworthy in is his pve stuff

[slim hatch]

And yet his info seems so bad

[marble lance]

given how much time and money he has put into the game, his results are not spectactular

[slim hatch]

SeanB seems to be a bit more reliable, his siege def video help a lot

[marble lance]

his advice is in generally really bad since he is carried by his account

seanb is a bit better but really you shouldn't be watching any of them to actually learn anything

[slim hatch]

They even write progression guides themselves

Now I kind of feel insecure

[marble lance]

sorry to tell you this again but its going to be really hard to tell

if you're improving or not

because you're playing in trash ranks

if you want to actually get better in guild stuff you need to leave your guild

[slim hatch]

I get it

[marble lance]

if you just want to have fun that's fine

but don't put all this fake energy into trying to improve

[slim hatch]

It's almost siege season end now, so maybe I'll stay until it end

Oh should I?

Will I still get reward?

But it's fine, sooner or later I'll leave

[marble lance]

what rank is your guild in siege

[slim hatch]

P3

[marble lance]

its too late to switch and still get rewards

but it's still over a month before you get season rewards

[slim hatch]

So I'll stay until season end

[marble lance]

so if you want to stay to keep rewards you miss out on another month of being in an actual guild

if you care about the transmogs i guess you can stay

but if you think you want the crystals or seals

[slim hatch]

Idk, 2000 crys and some exclusive skins seems valuable

[marble lance]

you'll end up getting more just by having regular sieges at a higher rank

[slim hatch]

Yeah I'll leave

My guild was created simply to get some Guild points for ifrit, it's even a miracle it can do sth in PvP

I feel kind of insecure tho

Some dude on reddit told me I can find guilds on this server, so I came here to find a guild

I didn't find one, yet I found an efficient guide to carry my dumb ass to play the game properly

[marble lance]

join therion's guild, maybe the sister one

it's pretty much the unofficial sw unofficial discord hna guild

@brisk swift

[slim hatch]

If I didn't find this place, I probaly still stuck somewhere in GB10 because reddit say it's worth

Fck it, thanks again for saving my ass

But it feel so bad to know many ppl out there still do DBAH first, or pick Tyron to do ToAN, or just play GB10 and think Spectra in GBAH is bullshit cuz there's nothing teaching them

[marble lance]

doing dbah first isn't that bad of a mistake

just a little inefficient but it wont kill you

following any seishizo or seanb or reddit guide isn't going to kill you

the worst mistake is just not following any guide, reading tidbits of random things, and then trying to do things your own way

[slim hatch]

Some particular post on Reddit told me Gbah isn't worth it

Cost one more energy and just give you slightly better runes, while being slower

[marble lance]

guide

not some random guy in a random comment

[slim hatch]

Multiple random guys?

[marble lance]

most people on reddit on indeed braindead, but most people aren't making guides on reddit either

[slim hatch]

Yeah forget it

But at least I feel better now

I always regret picking Tyron tho, he did help me clear toah a bit easier, but now I wait for eternity for Galleon

But I'm still doing fine

[cyan steeple]

i just do the defs my guild tells us to do

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I've read a comment from you that mention a big fat nuke version of tiana galleon team

which is tiana galleon deb + pung/kaki

Do you think a variation with Miriam or a second pung/kaki work?

[marble lance]

no

big difference between miriam and deb

2nd dd doesn't work because the point of big fat nuke is to 1 shot things

otherwise you run into problems with abellio and nem and other things

[slim hatch]

so, uhm, I just hit def without abellio/potential nem?

otherwise there's no point to actually get a tiana unless you get a cp or posei

[marble lance]

you're talking way too generically

give specific teams please

arena is very monster dependent theres no way around that

[slim hatch]

ad like karnal sav rakan chandra

I actually think if you go deb+big dd route you open up way more damage options

kaki, pung, alicia, zaiross on atk no acc build, julie, teshar

no wait, even things that might sound dumb will work as long as it is big AoE hit, maybe even Amir and the attack homunculus?

[marble lance]

the recommended monsters of kaki and pung do much more than just "big damage"

alicia is also good because of her skills but zaiross, julie, teshar, amir are horrible for this

kaki is good because no crit will do more dmg to cami than crit, plus with the way he is built even on a max dmg build he can be quite tanky/bruiserish

pung has several things going for him that allows him to bypass tons of annoying AD things, also you only have to land 1 def break on a unit pung can hit

[slim hatch]

I've also seen ppl using taor, beth, asima

taor has hard cc which is similar to alicia

idk about beth, she has some cc on her skill but not at the level of taor

[marble lance]

alicia is not used for her cc. she's used because of her huge auto crit s2 nuke (just like tiana), and because she can chain with s3 (allows you to deal with revivers, sav, other similar things very easily)

taor is definitely usable as a dd with tiana teams. but he's much more similar to poseidon in that regard, not alicia

beth is not great, maybe more usable if you have certain lds

asima is a much better beth, but still requires lds to shine

[slim hatch]

so the way to use alicia is to s2 nuke?

[marble lance]

depends on the situation if you use just use s2, or if you do s3 > s2

[silent lance]

Alicia (Water Polar Queen)

Wikia

3. Frost Rush

Attacks all enemies with ice pillars 3 times and freezes them for 1 turn with a 35% chance on each strike. Gains another turn instantly if the enemy dies or the enemy is frozen after the attack. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.6*{ATK} x3

Pos. Effects

Additional Turn (1 round(s))
Additional Turn (1 round(s))

Neg. Effects

Freeze (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

i see

[slim hatch]

what is that ld?

can't you just do tiana galleon asima +1?

[silent lance]

Asima (Light Hell Lady)

Wikia

3. Crumble

Attacks all enemies 3 times to weaken the Defense and inflicts continuous damage for 2 turns. Increases your Attack Bar by 10% per Continuous Damage granted on the enemies after the attack. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.4*{ATK} x3

Pos. Effects

Increase ATB (10%)

Neg. Effects

Decrease DEF (2 round(s))
Continuous DMG (2 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

Asima (Light Hell Lady)

Wikia

2. Gouge

Performs a ruthless charge, attacking all enemies 3 times. Each attack has a 35% chance to inflict Continuous Damage for 1 turn and the skill will deal 50% increased damage to enemies under harmful effects. (Reusable in 3 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.3*{ATK} x3

Pos. Effects

Debuff Bonus Damage (50%)

Neg. Effects

Continuous DMG (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

oh it's actually a big s3>s2 nuke

[marble lance]

you always have to think of the AD and how it will deal with common AD mons

there's a huge difference between alicia s3 > s2 and asima s3 > s2

do you understand what it is

[slim hatch]

alicia combo has cc

[marble lance]

no

i mean yes, but thats not the main thing

[slim hatch]

and alicia don't require crit

stat advantage

[marble lance]

nope

[slim hatch]

idk

[marble lance]

it's regarding the ability to chain s2 with s3

that's your homework assignment

figure out the difference

[slim hatch]

asima s3 and just get a bunch of dot since she's light, and she just get a bunch of atb

nah that's not a second turn, not reliable, I get it

[marble lance]

instant turn is much different from gain atb

even if it's a gain 100 atb

[slim hatch]

yeah just discuss it for fun tho, I don't have asima to begin with. maybe beth will stay in storage for now

I remember you mention somewhere that you don't use whomie for gbah

[marble lance]

Yea I don’t, I like to play around with homie for other things

[slim hatch]

well I have the same idea now

I switch my julie to a faster +130 spd build to use in siege

Now she's not usable in gbah anymore, so I play around the vero prilea amir kro whomie

1 minute avg, twice as long as my usual gbah time, but completely fine given how other dungeons also avg around one minute

[slim hatch]

do you play water homie?

[slim hatch]

fifuckingnally

100 scrolls and fifuckingnally

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I just got a shren

now I can optimize my praline team using him and 2 light element ignore def dd

praline oberon shren for example

[marble lance]

shren isn't really an upgrade to standard praline team

she's not better than cov or kahli

[slim hatch]

but the good thing about her is that she's neutral element

in normal ignore def I don't use praline tbh

[marble lance]

but that's almost never relevant

it's offense

you always pick your units

there's a f2p ignore def monster of every element

[slim hatch]

my cov and kahli are 100% cr build and usually go with their respective ninja booster team

or just same old cov megan kahli

[slim hatch]

so it might worth to change build before every fight?

damn now I wish for a kind of build loaders

one for with praline, one for without him

[marble lance]

you can have dupe kahlis and covs

and you can have a 70 cr build and a 100 cr build

[slim hatch]

tch

well maybe it might worth spending mana instead

I don't really want to build dupes on my half assed leftover rune

[marble lance]

yes so you can swap

when it comes to siege, 100 cr build with megan/bastet will eventually be very rarely used

maybe just into defs that you know aren't swift

because any good def will have a higher spd threat

[slim hatch]

I guess it might be better to switch 70 cr build as standard build

I can afford dupes praline

I can't recall of situation where I really need hongyeon so it might worth

[marble lance]

hongyeon will be too hard to use if you don't have good runes

she helps you outspeed since base spd higher than praline/bastet/megan

but comes at a cost

and anyway unless you have like

kiara

[silent lance]

Kiara (Dark Gladiatrix)

Wikia

Base

HP: 9720 — DEF: 604
ATK: 889 — SPD: 100
CR: 30 — CD: 50
ACC: 0 — RES: 15

Info

Type: Attack
Stars: 6
Devils: 11
Farmable: No

Awaken

From: Gladiatrix

Lead

Increase the Attack Speed of ally monsters by 21%

provided by SWARFARM

[marble lance]

then its hard to get a spd lead so its a moot point

[slim hatch]

yeah so it's should definitely be praline

[marble lance]

for siege just have a bunch of pralines

your standard nukers with praline are just cov kahli

if you have claire and beth, they are the only real upgrades

[slim hatch]

Well I have beth

oh

bethony

both 🙂

[marble lance]

yea beth is useless so when people say beth

they dont actually mean beth

[slim hatch]

The best thing about beth is her base speed is so high

[marble lance]

that is not the best thing about beth lol

[slim hatch]

it's 119 or sth i guess

[slim hatch]

big damage

[marble lance]

yes

its so big

its reasonable to even use her without atk buffer

[slim hatch]

yeah I realize the only occasions I fail to one shot is using kahli

[marble lance]

so like you can use her with eshir for example

helps spd contest a lot

[slim hatch]

I read somewhere that the high elementals has lowest ignore def damage

On the other hand, I also realize that I never fail with cov

[marble lance]

compared to what?

[slim hatch]

compare to most ign def dd

[marble lance]

this isn't something you have to read somewhere anyway, base stats and skill multipliers are all available on swarfarm

you can compare/calculate for yourself

[slim hatch]

so for the "premium" ignore def dd, we have beth, claire, sonia, cov, probably odin too

[marble lance]

plus i dunno how much of base stats is being factored in

for example cov has crit awakening, kahli doesn't

[slim hatch]

oh yeah

just remember that

[marble lance]

i dont like odin that much, his dmg is very low

[slim hatch]

odin also get free 15% crit

[marble lance]

the only good part about odin is that he makes 3v1 safer because of his second life and he's a nat 5

[slim hatch]

cov hit hard enough to be in fat snipe team, so I guess he's in "premium" category too

[marble lance]

nah we don't call f2p monsters premium

cov kahli are standard

beth claire are the premium like i said

sonia is an entirely different category

you don't use sonia with praline

[slim hatch]

Idk about Taru, never reach 60k with him like cov yet his stats advantages help a lot

[marble lance]

you dont use taru with praline either

[slim hatch]

and lastly there's oberon

I do realize that I fail to oneshot with him a couple of times

hit like 50k damage

I guess he's just one of the weaker ld5

[marble lance]

he's premium but not because of his damage

[slim hatch]

ventilate?

help you reload the second ign def dd

[marble lance]

that, plus the invulnerability against theo

[silent lance]

Oberon (Light Fairy King)

Wikia

3. Light of Judgement

Calls upon the power of light to inflict damage ignoring enemy's defense. Gains 1 turn of invincibility if the enemy dies. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

Pos. Effects

Ignore DEF
Invincible (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

I see

that's if oberon can finish theo with his s1

or 3v1 theo

there's nothing to make sure theo will hit him

[marble lance]

every bit helps

the goal is as close to 100% as possible

100% is impossible

a 98% wr player is literally twice as good as a 96% wr player

[slim hatch]

?ad

[reef pawn]

The following is a generic template for building an arena defense that's applicable anywhere from conqueror to G3. The listed monsters are just examples, there's certainly other viable options that are not mentioned.

1. Speed lead: Vanessa, Psamathe, Clara, Halphas, Moore

2. AoE stripper: Triton, Clara, Nora, Juno, Zen, Byungchul, Amduat

3. Bruiser: Camilla, Savannah, Byungchul, Perna, Rakan

4. Support: Abellio, Triana, Manon, or simply another bruiser from the category above

If you don't have any of these premium options, common f2p siege def monsters can be used as well: Vigor, Eshir, Cichlid, Chilling, Iunu, Tesa, etc. Example complete f2p def would be Clara Vigor Triana Tesa.

Note that working on any sort of PvP is useless until you've completed finished PvE. If you are just trying to get to 1300 arena points for the Summoners Way mission, read ?arenamission.

When you are just starting to work on arena and aiming for conq ranks, you should be focusing 95% of your efforts on AO. You climb by improving your offense and being able to beat more defs, consistently, and faster. AD is mostly a deterrent to discourage players from hitting you in the first place, there's very little you can do to get def wins. And even then, people will always attack you no matter what. Your only option to get a higher rank is to win on offense faster than people attack your defense.

Feel free to ask for help and feedback by starting a post in #1047269577614164098 , but show that you've read this and have given it some thought and effort yourself first. What teams have you already tried? What teams do you think would be good to try?

[slim hatch]

the siege def template you mention b4, using a spd lead, a stripper and a bruiser remind me a lot of this ad template

I also realize these monsters are actually top notch siege def monster

so I try to use the siege def mindset to make another ad

and it's actually work quite good, get hit less and win a bit more than the clara triana vigor tesa def I used before

I think it's because the deter cleave factor

[slim hatch]

@marble lance am I getting things right?

[marble lance]

it's not bad but its not better than vigor tesa

[slim hatch]

There's anti cleave factor here right?

While vigor and tesa in general just die if got cleaved

These 2 won't

[marble lance]

you're overestimating how anti cleave taranys and theo are

sure they'll survive an initial hit but then what? they have to wait until their turn to do anything, and they can't even do much when it does get to their turn

its easy to kill them twice

compare that to something like triana

she not only will prevent a death, but automatically cuts in and then heals and puts up immunity

stopping a cleave isn't just about surviving an initial hit

you still have to be able to kill the entire offense team

[slim hatch]

Hmm is that so

Oh wait that's an offensive reply

Sorry my english isn't perfect

[slim hatch]

There's also Iunu and Perna

I get it that Iunu can revive and just nuke on your face

Perna on the other hand just revive, while it give you full health, given that you'll nuke Perna twice it doesn't matter

[marble lance]

are you trying to say that you don't think iunu and perna are better than taranys and theo

[slim hatch]

I'm objectively wondering

Put them in situations against AO cleave, it's too rare to see a bruiser AO to begin with

So an important things to have in AO is anti cleave, if Iunu and Perna can revive and nulify a big shot that was meant to eliminate them, shouldn't the same apply to Taranys and Theo?

Sure Perna is just so good in general I won't dare compaing Theo to, but what about Vigor?

If he got cleaved he just die, that's it

[marble lance]

you always have to think about specific offenses people use

lushen?

• vigor has enough base hp to survive lushen
• tesa is fire
• perna is fire
• iunu will be revived and automatically kills lushen instantly
• taranys revives but doesn't do anything. or maybe he revives someone else when it gets to his turn? but the revives don't give turn or full atb or anything, and everything just gets killed again without doing anything
• theo survives with his 1 hp, he'll get his turn to shoot at someone. then dies immediately next turn because he's at 1 hp

tiana?

• not relevant in any case here because of clara

[slim hatch]

Or he use Psama lead 🙂

96+33% compare to 103+19%

[marble lance]

generally not safe, people aren't putting their absolute fastest set on tiana because then that tiana probably is doing very little dmg

[slim hatch]

Yeah but that's the rarer case

[marble lance]

and ok lets say they do use psama cp

well what do you think is going to fare better against cp

[slim hatch]

I get it

[marble lance]

vigor, tesa, theo, taranys, perna

yep, theo and taranys are dead last

[slim hatch]

Theo and Perna

Oj no

Tesa

Fck forgot his name

[marble lance]

the reason perna and vigor are good is because they just do a lot on subsequent turns

[slim hatch]

Vigor is a bit disadvantage since his skills have cd

[marble lance]

again the battle isn't over after the initial hit

vigor putting up anti crit buff also helps against some other offenses too, for example a 2nd turn leo christina ao

[slim hatch]

I kind of get it now

What about things that aren't mentioned including Laika, Xing Zhe, Molly?

Odin too

Oh Odin share the same case with Theo

I always thought siege def and arena def are the same

[marble lance]

people mistakenly think that the difference between ad and siege def is 3 monsters vs 4

maybe there are some smaller nuances with that

but the big thing is just that someone is forced to attack a siege def, and they have unlimited time to do so

whereas people can just opt to skip arena defs, and there is a much greater incentive to hit arena defs that can be cleared fast

[slim hatch]

Why Theo is so scary in siege def yet just not good in ad?

[brisk swift]

Just want to point out this specifically is incorrect

Tesa deters cleave/snipe hard

[slim hatch]

Not as hard as I remember

So I don't usually fear sniping Tesa

[brisk swift]

You can choose to not listen to it but sniping units with damage reduction passives is a bad idea

They exist to deter these options

I can make a tesa that survives a fat cov with attack buff and still is on a solid bruiser build for example

Once you

If you I guess

Start playing people who rune things properly

You are going to start losing

But that's up to you if you are actually interested in learning and pushing

[slim hatch]

I will

Maybe yes when I start joining your guilds

[brisk swift]

Are you going to learn good habits or just play lazy until you don't have to

Because the second is a sign of someone who will never actually be a good player

[slim hatch]

I do want to win more tho

[brisk swift]

Lazy players are the best and the only thing that really generate wins in proper siege

So if you wanna snipe tesa xing other units by all means

Otherwise learn how to properly hit these

[slim hatch]

Yeah sometimes I forgot that Tesa real strength is his percentage

[brisk swift]

Arena tesa can be the same you use on siege defense, by the way

So it's not like

A tanky tesa

Doesn't exist

On arena defense

[slim hatch]

Sorry sometimes I just get a bit over myself

[brisk swift]

You are not good, don't think you are

When you do

You stop learning

I know this because I also am not good :)

I'm always learning myself

[slim hatch]

We all do

For now I think I'm getting a hang of it

This thread exist for the purpose of enriching my knowledge and maybe some other ppl

[marble lance]

i think the frustrating part for people helping you

is that while you think you're just asking questions to learn

a lot of your questions aren't actually that good, and can be answered immediately if you simply have a bit of experience yourself in that area

and you are doing very little to gain that experience

you're just theorycrafting without experience

[brisk swift]

+++++

[slim hatch]

What's that?

[marble lance]

we discussed the siege issue already

how about arena?

are you actually rushing every week?

are you doing 300 mid week wings to learn?

where are you finishing each week?

[brisk swift]

I agree with jx

That's what I am saying

[slim hatch]

Like C2 C1 sometimes but I never see the unit I use b4

[brisk swift]

That doesn't make sense

[marble lance]

show your arena page

[brisk swift]

If you are rushing you never are finishing c1 lol

[marble lance]

this one

[slim hatch]

I do some refresh and I just give up when I decide to

Tbh I can't hit 70% def out there

[brisk swift]

Why is that a problem

Turn your game off and on

[slim hatch]

Because it's too much effort

[brisk swift]

Lushen cleans enough defenses to finish g1 consistently outside of ISA week

[marble lance]

you've read the guide. i'm sure you've seen the part where it says that the standard expectation is that you can't hit 85% of defs out there

[brisk swift]

If you aren't interested in effort I'm not interested in helping

[slim hatch]

I do, just not too much

Like, if I'm at 4000 atm I'll try to get C2

And I did, but if I'm at 7000 I'll just give up

[brisk swift]

The first week I put in proper effort I finished g1
If you aren't doing that then you are doing something wrong
My AD was memes, it was literally back when I was so clueless I used Theomars and Leo together on AD

You need to be refreshing this way

If not you are just gimping yourself for no reason

[slim hatch]

I'm fine with having several thousands ppl above me

That's why I don't try too hard, I just gradually do what I can

[brisk swift]

To this point, the Tiana Galleon command I wrote was made from doing nonsensical amounts of wings with the AO in all configurations, losing a fuckton and then learning

[brisk swift]

Okay this is stupid logic though, I literally finish c1 by doing a few wings here and there and not rushing without any effort, if I can do that you are clearly not putting in the effort

Show the page jx was asking about

That number of players is irrelevant

[slim hatch]

I'm not having my games on rn, maybe tommorow

I can't run the game atm

[brisk swift]

When you put in the effort necessary you tag me my friend, I won't chase you to show if you are actually doing wings

[slim hatch]

I do remember checking that regularly and last time I check, I only get 80% win rate and I'm at top 2800

It's mid week so not to much to say

Goodbye for now, I guess I'll figure out the Theomars problem eventually

It probably because you tested it thousands of times and it's not work, so it is what it is

I'm sorry for making you any frustration, just want to say I geniunely want to learn the game "science"

If my question are meaningless you tell me "we tested it b4" and I'll shut up

[marble lance]

we're not saying "shut up and just trust us"

we're saying "try it yourself"

learning doesn't happen from us telling you what to do or answering your questions

learning happens from you doing it yourself

we just provide a bit of guidance so you have some sort of idea of what to do yourself

[slim hatch]

here's the one in my main

@brisk swift

and here's the one in my alt

I actually plan to hit c ranks with my alt this week for once

[slim hatch]

Oh I get it now

@marble lance took me a while but I think I finally get what you mean

because in arena you only cycle around same old specific lushen, tiana galleon, leah, leo christ, so it's better that I try to build my def and cycle around countering them

theo is a good siege def mons but he doesn't do well against usual arena cleaves so he isn't here

did I get it right?

[slim hatch]

Maybe I am. Starting mid C2 I can't hit any def with Lushen.

And on my alt, things even worse

I had to finish at 1380

Everytime I beat someone, I come out and see my rank get lower

Ppl just chew my def like gums

[brisk swift]

Gotta work on identification skills then

Again you have infinite refreshes

Your defense does not need to be good lol

[slim hatch]

or maybe I can troubleshoot my teams from very beginning

I'll screenshot my fat lushen teams first

[slim hatch]

@marble lance for arti, lushen is using +28% atk buff, idk about gin arti so I use additional dmg on spd

[marble lance]

your runes are better than the level you're currently achieving or playing at

the only thing stopping you from higher ranks in practically any pvp content

is just lack of effort or experience in execution

[slim hatch]

I'll join a better guild and seek some true improvements right after this season end

But for now, I want to troubleshoot my arena progressions first

[marble lance]

my comments are for arena

[slim hatch]

So this mean I'm runing things correctly?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

My fat lushen team is fine I guess

[marble lance]

fuse some skillups for that lushen though

but otherwise looks fine

[slim hatch]

Yeah I will, I just lack the fodders to do so, hope they increase event currency

[slim hatch]

It works great whenever it can be used, yet when every defs out there is being filled with Vanessa, Byung, and Camilla, it's this dot offense that I use more often

And one really bad things about this dot offense that it's not 100% work

Because I can't apply dot fast enough, I can get outdamaged against strongers bruisers like Sav

Or the enemy has ton of heals

like Geld

[marble lance]

dot offense is good to have

it will improve with better runes

it is slow though. in conq ranks you can definitely find some ad to lushen every list

you need to practice more mid week

should have 300 wings used every week

you need to know what you can hit, what you can't hit, what may be an ok risk to hit

and you won't know unless you try

[slim hatch]

I usually manage to hit around 200 wings only

it's mainly that I see I have wings, I want to make it less than 10, so I used until it becomes 0

not that I try to be up to prevent it from reaching 10

this week I'll try again to reach p ranks at least, also gonna save up crystals to do 10 crystal refesh

But I guess there's no quick improvement I can do for now

[slim hatch]

how do I rune deborah for tiana galleon deb kaki ad @marble lance

currently I rune her on trash fight x3, I find it hard to tune her as a backup def breaker to galleon

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I'm thinking about the skillups event

for the 2a skillups I think shamann might not be a good target, so probably a dupe vigor

for the nat4, I'm torn between deva or sabrina to use in dbah, or mihyang, but I already has 3 skillups on her and there might be no need for a dupe

for the nat5, since siege is still my main focus, I think I'll skillups triton or ritesh for siege def

or maybe amelia and aaliyah to use with bolv

dominic might not be a good choice since he has passive

[marble lance]

i don't have deb

what's wrong with shamann? you should not prioritize skillups for dupe 2a at this point

twins are a good target but i will say mihyang is my most used 4* siege dupe right now

both triton and ritesh are bad

[slim hatch]

Maybe I'll keep her on fight x3 trash, fail to tune her on 3rd turn

[slim hatch]

He only need 2 skillups on his s2 so I think it's a waste

[slim hatch]

so what should be my target?

[marble lance]

if you want to use it on a 2a monster with 5 or 6 skillups total that makes sense, but you are mistaken if you don't think s1 damage skillups on a damage dealer is valuable

[marble lance]

think of your next siege def

[slim hatch]

yeah so it's shamann

[slim hatch]

I need someone to replace that jubelle

[marble lance]

manon byung and perna all skilled?

[slim hatch]

oh it's manon

yeah she'll be my next target

thanks

someone I forgot about her

I'm thinking about rebuilding my siege def as well

that tesa byung manon def for example, according to your new siege def template that include a spd lead, a stripper and a bruiser, is lacking a spd lead and probably a stripper as well

[slim hatch]

I optimized Talia+Sabrina to solely use them in dungeons as the twins aren't used much in siege anymore

I also give up gbah kyle team to use julie in galleon bernard siege

Maybe I will also drop speed sfah team to build a speedier lushen for speed lushen ao

[slim hatch]

@marble lance

Is the tuning I'm doing correct?

I'm trying to make deb a backup def breaker for galleon, or she might even move before

I considered nem users before, but I think it can be mitigated by building deb on lowest damage possible, or make her go before gale

[marble lance]

looks about right

[slim hatch]

ok so I'll rune deb on low damage triple fight

[slim hatch]

I've updated my def to your template

@marble lance

I tried to build the 3 real defs around my premium siege def options

[marble lance]

the defs look good but worry more about runing them well 1 at a time

[slim hatch]

yes I will

however I'm a bit concerned about 3rd def, about the def break there's ciclid but maybe that's not enough

cichlid has literally 0 skillups there, I think she's an even better target for skillups than the mihyang with 4 skillups already

def 5 is without a true stripper but maybe it's still fine

or I might consider a triton

[marble lance]

you're not listening

concern yourself with 1 def

before 3

[slim hatch]

Ok so

Def 1,2: fullfill all the rules, fully skilled up, properly runed

It and def 2 gonna be my 2 main def

[slim hatch]

You mean I just need to care about that def 3 for now?

[marble lance]

Show runes is what I mean

[slim hatch]

I guess that's an affirmative to my def placements

[hard trellis]

uhh 3 things

1. U did not show clara stats
2. You wasted a leg grind by grinding not even max purple gem
3. If possible you want destroy on byung

[slim hatch]

oh fuck my bad

[slim hatch]

I'm living in r5, don't worry

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I had conversations with other advisors while you're absent

it's about the dd options for tiana galleon

basically we came into the conclusion that zaiross and poseidon isn't good

they only hit once and there's always a 15% chance that will be resisted

so it's not safe at all

[marble lance]

lack of skillups is still a huge concern especially on clara

i feel like we've had so many rounds of pierrets in anni hoh?

and where have your devils been going into

why is manon at 0 skillups

[slim hatch]

All went into that dumb Julie

[marble lance]

you didn't use almighty?

[slim hatch]

Lemme see if I have some left in my storage

Oh shoot

Ok I'll note that

So far I only pick light pierret hoh

as well as the ld, I picked gin on the first one

[slim hatch]

well she'll be the target for the nat5 skillups event

[marble lance]

build wise the stat allocation is not bad but overall still feels really weak for your #1 def

[slim hatch]

the most recent devil target I used on was riley and haegang

[marble lance]

these monsters should literally have your absolute best runes on your entire account

why did you devil riley and haegang

over #1 siege def

riley is fine actually

but deviling haegang a huge waste

he doesn't need devils to work

i dunno i feel like ive stressed this over and over

and you've been working on pvp for months

and still don't have these basics

[slim hatch]

well as for him I just realize he miss strip too often and try to get his s2 maxed, might help once I get into rta

But so far manon is the only nat5 I really use without devils

same for bolv and yeah you'll kill me if I tell you I devilled him

[marble lance]

other small things - you dont have to have manon on crit but i think i prefer her on crit. if you don't have her on crit its usually because you're building her super tanky (i.e. with a lot more hp) to try to survive a cleave or something

clara has no offset

the rev vs destroy on byung is not a big deal (responding to the other guy)

but one major thing is that you have a huge speed gap between clara and your other 2 monsters

that's bad

also because clara is a stripper in addition to byung, you could consider turn order of clara > manon > byung

[slim hatch]

noted

now I remember that it's also noted in beginner pvp

dunno why I missed that

sry

[marble lance]

it's not unreasonable to have clara "slow" at 239 tick if thats where the rest of your team is

it's also not unreasonable to have byung and manon at 286 tick

you pick

[slim hatch]

should clara be on bruiser build btw?

like spd/cr/hp?

[marble lance]

if you slow her down then yes you can definitely afford to get dmg on her

especially on this team

where manon probably will be the first target

[slim hatch]

get several in storage

should be much better now

[marble lance]

still missing skillups

[slim hatch]

well gotta way for guild shop then

with these vio/despair gradually become popular I fear that ppl will no longer fear spd racing clara

[marble lance]

this is the last of your worries on this team

how are you going to cleave byung manon

[slim hatch]

frederica

but yeah not everyone get a fredi so that might not be a problem

if I meet this def myself I'll just try to pull the leo offense out or simply give the fuck up

[marble lance]

leo is dumb

nothing here is spd scaling

[slim hatch]

how may I bruiser this anw

lemme think

vigor delphoi roid i guess, since there's no immunity roid might be safe

[marble lance]

bolv would be the easiest premium counter

otherwise you'd just bruiser with your usual tank stuff + immunity

like feng aaliyah

[slim hatch]

ok

how about the matter regarding the tiana galleon ao?

[marble lance]

i dunno what you guys mean by not good

or what your expectations are

there's 2 DDs with tiana galleon cleave

nothing is 100% guaranteed

the point of it is that you're stacking many chances of cc

specifically for zaiross - one thing that i've done in the past is to reduce his dmg or tune him to go before galleon

so that against abellios, even if you miss the reset on abellio

you're not doing enough dmg on your first hit to trigger his passive

remember that tiana team is all about control and allowing your 2nd wave of hits (including tiana s2) to clean up

zaiross s2 is strong too, and you have another dd to follow up

as for poseidon, that's crazy he's literally the 2nd best overall tiana dd next to cp

currently against the super meta g3 ad of vanessa juno cami byung, my best rush ao against it is pos cp tiana

[slim hatch]

psama lead I presume?

oh no

it might be nephthys

yeah that sound more reasonable

[marble lance]

im not using spd lead

against juno

its not a nora

[slim hatch]

you still outspeed it?

[marble lance]

most of the time i do

because juno is despair

and even if i dont

the chance of juno using s2 and strip stunning tiana (+ additional units)

is not very high

[slim hatch]

huh, my nora is despair, hope it's not too bad

after my conversation with halo, I think that for the first dd to move, it might be safer to use cp, liesel or charlotte

liesel actually give you closest to 85% atb pushback on avg since he hit 5 times

cp and charlotte also hit 3 and it's work too

[marble lance]

what

i said i'm using cp

[slim hatch]

for the without cp players

[marble lance]

well yes

[slim hatch]

poseidon on the other hand might get resisted and be punished by nem wielder

I also think about zaiross cooldown increase to make him go right after galleon, but the can be resisted too and might be more dangerous than poseidon case

[marble lance]

thats why when i used zaiross i had zaiross go before galleon

theres ways to tune and rune your units to deal with the problems you have

it doesn't make the units bad

[slim hatch]

haha if anyone but you said this i just think it is meme build

[slim hatch]

but i guess halo's point still stand, even tho he stated he don't use tiana often

[marble lance]

what is his point

[slim hatch]

lemme recheck first

[slim hatch]

well just the same with what we discussed, zaiross cd increase is unreliable because res

[slim hatch]

after i experience with zaiross myself, it's actually his damage that impress me more

but we already have kaki for big dmg

[merry star]

Assuming your Tiana is swift/will? 100 res, just fast as possible on will, or something else?

[marble lance]

oh yea i have my stuff on will

sorry forgot to mention that

[slim hatch]

https://youtu.be/W0YDhh30kL8?si=6oKgcDtnsgCjPbq6&t=65

it's exactly this situation

in short, he's running a cp poseidon cleave in rta, his poseidon get resisted by a juno and he lose instantly

I think if you need a reliable option that move after galleon, it's either cp/liesel/charlotte

poseidon instead move last

[marble lance]

um that's what i'm saying too

[slim hatch]

great, thanks for that clarification

I think the dd in the last slot might actually just be any AoE dd

the one in guides are to counter specific things, but otherwise it can be any dd as the nem threat is resolved

for the abelio threat I think it's crucial to have 2 pushback together like liesel+cp

[brisk swift]

i don't know why people don't talk about this but generally your defenses should be 7-10 speed above tick

[slim hatch]

I remember that

[brisk swift]

because people build monsters "on tick" and try to not "waste" stats

[slim hatch]

I'm just lacking grinds so I try to at least get them on tick

Many of my vio grinds are just +3

some are not even grinded yet

[slim hatch]

there must be something I'm doing wrong

based on what I'm doing here beth need +151 spd no arti buff to be tuned, yet I tested and find out it wasn't

[surreal iron]

You need to add the speed buff to more ticks

For you you only have speed buff during one single tick

But it is 2 full turns

[slim hatch]

lemme see

[surreal iron]

Either click on the button there which add it to the end, or just manually few more ticks

[slim hatch]

like this

[surreal iron]

Oh yeah can choose between ticks

Doesn't matter much because it's cleave, only need few more ticks

[slim hatch]

I don't think this is the correct answer

+180 spd mihyang is so insane

[surreal iron]

You still didn't add it

[slim hatch]

lemme manual

[surreal iron]

Speed modifier, only one tick is 30% green

[slim hatch]

yeah that max option won't work

[surreal iron]

Needed to click speed buff here before 'set' probably

[slim hatch]

alright it's done

but that's not the real problem

I set bethony on +151 yet it doesn't work

the enemy "adriana" still get right after my adriana and ruin the combo

[surreal iron]

Checked in swift runes correctly on first tab?

[slim hatch]

wait

oh fuck

[surreal iron]

It's very small difference in atk bar so it matters

[slim hatch]

checked it yet still not work

I run all 4 on swift

[surreal iron]

Try adding all 3 monsters to the enemy, maybe it works like swop in this way

[slim hatch]

it still doesn't work

tks I'll try to find out the answer

lemme rewatch the guides

[surreal iron]

Sorry don't know what else can be wrong, if everything is on swift, maybe you didn't awaken her or something?

[slim hatch]

I'm pretty sure I built her fine

But I guess it might be sth in the game

[slim hatch]

Oh

The beth I set on siege def isn't the one I'm testing

I've been reading the one on siege def

The one I'm testing is +144 spd only 😦

Sorry for bringing you trouble, I was careless

[surreal iron]

either way, mihyang needs to be faster, or +speed increasing effect artis, and it should be good to go

this works too, if you type custom amount like this

[slim hatch]

@marble lance what should be my 4* target for this skillups event

I have all carc, mihyang, galleon fully skilled

for now I'm thinking about one of the twin, talia, deva or sabrina to do dbah spd

or probably dupe of the siege trio

[marble lance]

would always prioritize a new monster over a dupe

can do a twin, maybe sabrina since she can be used in both dragons and rifts/raids

[slim hatch]

@marble lance you might want to kill me

I haven't really understand the rune guides

up to this point there's only one thing I know is that no rune are insta sell, so whenever I get a rune, I +6 +9 it and if I feel it's usable then I keep

I consider each roll in flat stat as 1/2 roll, so I'll keep anything with 2 or more roll which is equal to a blue rune

and now I've hit the rune cap

[slim hatch]

@marble lance based on what I've read in the rune guide as well as the rune event, I've come to some conclusion

1. good runes are the ones with stats synergize to one or the other, for example a slot 6 atk% with crit, spd, acc and hp is a good damage dealer rune

2. flat stat are for optimizing stats, so we keep stats that syngnerize with each other

well that's as far as I can understand, so I'll try to filter my runes using those category

I guess the substats sum can be used for such filter, for example high def+atk sum will probably results in bad runes

[marble lance]

not sure what you're trying to say

[slim hatch]

I hope you can correct if my 2 conclusions have sth wrong

keeping too much runes really hurt my process so I want to fix it

[marble lance]

those statements are way too generic

[slim hatch]

sorry for wasting your time

[slim hatch]

how should eladriel be runed in the carc eladriel +1 siege def

and is he good at all?

[marble lance]

i think he's a bit underrated actually

maybe not top tier but more than usable

just make him fast and tanky, max res is good too. with his high base spd and carc spd lead you should be able to get him to 286 tick

[slim hatch]

thanks, I just conviniently had him built for lab

making him tanky is the way to go, I've been losing some match again him because lushen cleave failed

[slim hatch]

@marble lance is it beneficial to rune pcah mons on vio?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

great, I already have raoq and icaru on vio, I'm considering eirgar and pang too

[marble lance]

thats fine you can leave that as is

vio isn't as great as it is for necro

there's just no auto counter or effect after you take x number of turns

like there is in giants, sf, or raids

[slim hatch]

The reason I'm considering vio is because I realize I got some very long run, or even fail

it's because I miss debuffs on the boss

mostly def break but sometimes also miss a bunch of strip/buff block and the boss just go kabilla mode

[hybrid crystal]

Have acc on icaru eirgar raoq then

[slim hatch]

I ensure you I did

[hybrid crystal]

And pang also has slow

[slim hatch]

do you use attack homunculus for subjugation?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

which path should I go for

For now I'm going for this path

[marble lance]

thats what i did

[slim hatch]

alright tks

I also want to test this for dot ao to stack up a ahit ton of them

a problem is he is kind of slow, but let see if I can work around

[hybrid crystal]

Just team up with raoq+icaru

[slim hatch]

this one clear wave 19, not bad at all

[marble lance]

don't use raoq for water

lushen is decent, he has 2 aoes

[slim hatch]

got it

I also want to drop hraes from fire team

guess I can use Galleon

[slim hatch]

is it more effective to build eshir on spd/cr/hp?

@marble lance

[marble lance]

it's an option but not the only option

[slim hatch]

I mean should I?

Compare him to Vigor, I think Vigor has hp scaling on all his skill so building spd/hp/hp won't lose much damage

Eshir however scale with atk only in s1 and he also has a bonus when killing someone with s3

[marble lance]

can you figure out what i'm going to ask you next to answer that, or what you're missing from this question

[slim hatch]

You're gonna tell me it's depend i guess

I'm runing him for Khmun Orion Eshir def

[marble lance]

yes i would get crit on him for that def

[slim hatch]

How do I know if I should get someone on full hp build or crit build

I haven't seen Vigor or Khmun on crit build but I think those also work

[hybrid crystal]

huh? i thought crit khmun is also common

[marble lance]

play the game get experience and think about it

eshir still does some damage even without crit, it's not like triana where you can have her on dmg or tank builds, but the tank build is literally going to do 0 dmg

eshir on full hp and no cr still does respectable amount of dmg

you just have to think if its worth losing the tankiness for some extra damage on eshir

if people are probably going to save him for last and there's higher priority squishier targets on your def, then maybe its worth losing tankiness to get a bit of more dmg with crit

if there's other monsters on your def that people are going to save for last (for example byung or kinki are examples of typical monsters people always save for last), then maybe its not worth losing tankiness on eshir

and also its always a thing to rune your entire def super tanky to try to defend against cleaves

vigor is usally not built on crit, part of the reason is that he just simply doesn't benefit as much from crit as eshir. eshir's s3 is pure hp scaling with no atk, vigor is a mix of atk and hp. and eshir s3 nuke is on a lower cd too. so a crit eshir is more threatening than a crit vigor

but of course that doesn't mean it's impossible, you'll certainly see crit vigors on specific defs especially at higher levels that try to trap a particular offense

khmun though is always built on crit. same reasons, he is capable of doing a lot of dmg, his s2 is pure hp scaling and on a 2 turn cd

[brisk swift]

Yeah uh

Just full add'ls on eshir melts shit to be honest

We aren't playing higher siege still right

Is there a reason this defense can't be Julie'd realistically speaking

Am I missing something

I feel like Orion can't really survive unless we hard trap this?

And khmun is gonna go for Bernard

[marble lance]

hes not playing high siege and no one knows about julie outside of that

[slim hatch]

Maybe I'll consider Khmun Orion +1 wind like Iunu to counter Julie to an extent

But even that Bernard and Galleon can 2v1 him

[slim hatch]

damn I usually follow summoners1722's swwarfarm to see build and I saw him spd/hp/hp

[marble lance]

but summoner1722 has khmun on 80 cr

[slim hatch]

oh I see

tks I got the idea

[brisk swift]

I mean if your guild is stacking this then run it

[slim hatch]

my guild don't stack at all

[brisk swift]

Then definitely don't build it

[slim hatch]

I'm about to leave it

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I had a discussion with Halo

Just want to confirm is it ok to run def like Vanessa Amduat Triana Abellio, where we use 2 supports and 0 real bruiser

[marble lance]

It’s fine

[slim hatch]

Got it

Sorry @little lintel

I didn't know

[slim hatch]

Maybe I'm dumb but I still don't get why split scaling reduce crit build effectiveness

I also check Roid and he is also built on Spd/Hp/Hp

[slim hatch]

I finally get into real siege by joining Yak's guild, which is G1 btw 🙂

[marble lance]

real beginner siege 🙂

[slim hatch]

And to get start I've built a more proper tank Leo and a Dominic to use alongside him

[marble lance]

thats not how you build dom

and that offense is bad

[hybrid crystal]

u know dominic dont need crit right

[slim hatch]

I build him hp x3

and optimize for atk% sub, for some reason it result in 10%+ crit runs

[slim hatch]

no, for real

I still can't understand why crit build worth on someone and not worth on some other

[hybrid crystal]

cuz the dominic highest dmg hit cant crit

[hard trellis]

Read dominic's skills

[slim hatch]

oh

[slim hatch]

this is my result

[marble lance]

why are you even building dom like this to be specific to leo

[slim hatch]

to use him with leo ofc

or I can build another roid and optimize him for leo if that's good enough

[marble lance]

Not that you can’t, but there’s no good reason to either

Dom and Leo have no synergy

[slim hatch]

or should I build Helena instead?

I have a Helena in my storage

[slim hatch]

oh now I realize Feng has atb increase, Roid can literally erase atb

[marble lance]

if you want generic tanky bruiser to go with leo, feng and xing are the best

and roid is best f2p

number one most important thing is being tanky, and atb control works well with leo

dom has no innate tankiness, and since he is atk based bruiser if you want him to deal damage you need to sacrifice potential tankiness

so thats why hes not great

roid you can build him full hp no atk and he'll still do dmg

[slim hatch]

damn that sei's arena guide really hurt my brain

[marble lance]

why are you applying arena to siege

[slim hatch]

why not?

[marble lance]

is that a real question

[cyan steeple]

is too different

ur missing a whole unit

in siege

[marble lance]

thats not really why its different

[slim hatch]

no but the mechanic of his guide is just like that

the leo feng arena, with domi is feng's alternative

[marble lance]

how fast you clear arena defs is important

how fast you clear siege defs is not important

[slim hatch]

I get the reason why Leo and Domic aren't compatible

[marble lance]

it's not that they aren't compatible but there is no synergy

so why not actually use something that does have some synergy

or helps you deal with real siege situations

not hypothetical arena ones

is this dom leo offense hitting carcs?

leo or no leo you'll meet siege carcs that can probably 1 shot the dom you had

[slim hatch]

alr

I'll build my current roid to use with leo then

[marble lance]

helena is good with leo too but you need to skill her up

and make a jeanne

and skill her up too

[slim hatch]

yep, so it's just a fully built helena that I'm missing

[slim hatch]

so, should I start building a dupe roid or just straight up invest in helena?

[marble lance]

up to you

[slim hatch]

I don't want to build a dupe roid really, most situation I just use byung

so I'll go with helena, she also seems popular with leo in rta anw

[slim hatch]

I finally have a mihyang adriana beth team runed

[merry star]

That Adriana is too slow. This offense is supposed to race

[slim hatch]

this is the best I can rune her tbh

she get the 3rd fastest swift, kabilla get the +203 one, bernard get the +185 one

I also struglgle quite a lot to rune mihyang that fast and she hit only around 10k per hit on s2

[merry star]

Giants is calling

[slim hatch]

sleep in giants

[marble lance]

consider swapping around your best swift set

mihyang is considered easy to rune

because she doesn't need crit, also because since she scales with speed she doesn't really lose damage by trading atk/cd for more spd to be tuned

not only stay in giants but consider reapping swift

[slim hatch]

alr

[marble lance]

that being said for mihyang, she doesn't ignore def so yea she'll be doing much less damage than beth

which is ok

she is only expected to 1 shot squishy stuff like carc or clara

[slim hatch]

I realize I don't farm rune as much this month

[marble lance]

you can still use this team into tankier things, adriana is OP and you can 3v2 stuff

[slim hatch]

one reason is that I get kind of busy

the other is that I lack a lot of grind

tbh that mihyang is lacking at least +3 spd from a grind

[slim hatch]

oh so I snipe out the most dangerous threat and then play 3v2?

[marble lance]

beth should definitely 1 shot whatever

i'm saying though that its ok if mihyang doesn't 1 shot the 2nd monster

your team has immunity, mihyang and adriana both have sustain

[slim hatch]

so did I rune them the way they should

[marble lance]

yes it is correct, but just very weak

[slim hatch]

feel like I need swop to help me with this

also some patience, I can't get good runes overnight

thanks

[marble lance]

try it without swop

especially monsters like adriana and mihyang

the less number of stats you need the easier they are to rune

so for mihyang who doesn't even need cr... you just need enough speed to be tuned and some combination of cd + atk

if you need swop for that that's bad

[slim hatch]

is speed the only thing I lack?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

I tested that Beth, she hit about 26-28k per shot, can be lower then

[marble lance]

and skillups on adriana but i guess thats different

[slim hatch]

is it worth to use spd up effect arti?

oh nvm, I tested it, give me like 7-8 spd at 5 rolls

[marble lance]

not really for these monsters

its not efficient

you end up losing dmg

[slim hatch]

alr

thanks, gonna try again

[slim hatch]

btw which type of monsters can use those arti

[marble lance]

it's better for supports that need to be tuned, for example if you have miri teon/dova

good for tuning that teon/dova to miri

otherwise for dds its mostly to tune them when its just going to be impossible with runes alone

for example tuning things to chilling

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

its not that common

[slim hatch]

not what I'm gonna do in near future anw, so I'll leave them be

[slim hatch]

should I use the skillup event on zaiross?

I don't have a target rn and I feel like he's a good choice, consider how often I use him in tiana galleon cleaves

[marble lance]

i dont like zaiross that much

[slim hatch]

I think I should start another thread for my alt

[marble lance]

maybe its time to drop the alt

[slim hatch]

my alt don't get that much attention compared to the main

a reason I start it is to get early water twin, galleon, astar and play in an efficient way

then I also can play Tiana, which I don't have on my main

[slim hatch]

I often farm them simutaneously anw so I don't think it's a big deal

[slim hatch]

have you ever played alt before, since you seems like you don't like them

[surreal iron]

you can see his alt in https://discord.com/channels/109904961969586176/1166120830921621504

[slim hatch]

Well whenever I can sit down and run SW on my device, it's always 2 account farming alongside each other

I can afford priority my main over my alt, but dropping the alt entirely seems not worth it

[marble lance]

it's up to you but i'm just commenting on what i'm seeing

to an extent yea this game is just idle farming

but i've repeatedly commented that you're just lacking a ton of real in game experience

and there's no way around that other than actively playing testing and gaining experience

use more wings

test out more builds

[slim hatch]

Siege swords?

[marble lance]

utilize the new guild research tower

for awhile when i was trying to learn and theorycraft a lot