Fam's help thread

[hard trellis]

Whats stopping you from using tesa raccuni riley in 3rd and coppering 4th?

[slim hatch]

shjt tons of def break

[hard trellis]

3rd one has no strip 4th one has only mhw def break

I think even normal double snipe with wind cookie would work better

[slim hatch]

I remembered jx told me somewhere

if the enemy have shjt tons of def break, it'll be better to cleave

normal double snipe is even riskier here, the snipers are squishy and if antares passive proc there, they die

[flint stone]

in third one you can bring immunity like woosa

he has no strip

[slim hatch]

If I must bring immu, I'd instantly think about Lulu

[hard trellis]

Im talking abt using double snipe in 4th

And tesa in 3rd

[slim hatch]

Or even fran

oh i see

[hard trellis]

Riley should have perma s2/s4 since shes being perma focused no?

[slim hatch]

Anyway, in 4th I just see it have just fire mk def break, so bruisering is also easy

hmm

so tesa riley +1 fire

I noticed he only have feng s2 to sustain, but just to be safe

[marble lance]

do you have leo? you can do leo tetra +any wind bruiser

if you want to bruiser it with the team you used, would use racuni or lala over tetra as sav is the main threat so a fire support is safer

so get will runes? or don't cleave it

nana is anti cleave too that was a horrible offense

[slim hatch]

How do you use Leo btw?

I try to research on Leo

Technically when no atb manipulation is involved, he just become 400 spd and the turn order just go on like how it normal does

Leo passive can also be resisted

So other than reducing spd scaling damage, how do I use Leo in offense?

[slim hatch]

Most cleaves don't run will runes, I got caught suprise by this.

[merry star]

This is a big benefit. And you can build your team with all stats and ignore speed without worrying about getting lapped

[marble lance]

they don't but most defs don't have antares either. i dont know what you mean by surprise, you know what antares does. the monster doesn't randomly change when you go into the battle

[slim hatch]

Anw I got a bruisering solution for that, the one where I spam immu,/cleanse with tesa riley racuni

But I need to understand my nat5 more

Especially Leo and Adriana who are really strong yet I can't ultilize

[marble lance]

leo is a tank that gives your team a huge stat advantage

most common build for siege is double will/shield pure tank

adriana is basically just a booster like praline

except the boost is very small since its technically just a spd buff and not any boost

best with mihyang sonia (spd scaling dds), but you can make her work with anything

[slim hatch]

Just work I guess, because my Kahli is hitting 50k with current build

She is +120 now

So if she have to be spd tuned to a +180 adriana, maybe she'll be +160 and hit 35k?

[slim hatch]

Big ohhhh

Leo

Is a fucking tank?

[marble lance]

yes

he's only a bruiser in rta

[slim hatch]

Huh

[verbal sentinel]

?

[slim hatch]

So what is truly his advantage over normal wind tanks like Windy, Malite or Skogul

[slim hatch]

Go away this isn't your thread

[marble lance]

yea just don't bother using kahli with adrianna, you need spd scaling dds like mihyang. the easiest non spd scaling dd to use with adriana would be taru since he has big base spd and doesn't need much crit

[marble lance]

the second part of what i said

gives your team a huge stat advantage

when you use leo you're using a special team that's runed specifically to be used with leo

i.e. 0 spd

so you can give everything more hp def atk etc

whereas your enemy all their spd is wasted

[slim hatch]

Do I have to rebuild my team to use Leo?

[verbal sentinel]

so I cannot comment on your thread?

[marble lance]

yes

we always build teams, not individual monsters

that is a lesson from day 1 of the game

[slim hatch]

Get the fuck out 😦

[marble lance]

yes you cannot make useless comments in this channel

[slim hatch]

You can keep making fun of me in our server, so be on your way Fedora loser

[slim hatch]

I tried to do some search on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/6v1b10/leo_a_comprehensive_guide/

this one particular guide stated that the strength of leo also lie in his ability to reduce atb

[marble lance]

please do not search on reddit

it's trash

no high level players bother sharing their knowledge there anymore

also,

[slim hatch]

it might be the only other reliable source of info I have

seanb and sei don't do vid about leo

[slim hatch]

Now I kind of regret picking Leo

[marble lance]

what do you want to know?

[slim hatch]

Don't get me wrong, I know he's great

[marble lance]

i've said everywhere leo is super overrated

[slim hatch]

But sometimes I think Tiana or even Camilla would be a better pick for me

I can still run Galleon Tiana Kaki Liesel on my main

But that's not a story to talk about anymore, Leo is the pick I changed into

Come to think of it, some hundred thousands mana for a guarantee win isn't a bad price

[marble lance]

leo is at the top of the list because of 2 reasons

first, he's the best trophy elemental nat 5 in the game, people just think he's cool because of the whole speed thing. it's definitely the best pick for the average player who doesn't play the game and just collects monsters

second, he actually is good in all 3 pvp content, although it's mostly skewed towards RTA

and RTA does get a pretty high weight because it is the most "prestigious" pvp

but if you know what you want and don't actually care about rta and but do want to do well in siege and regular arena

leo is a really bad pick

[slim hatch]

lmfao

[slim hatch]

I can't be sure of it yet

But right now, I haven't think a lot about RTA

I tried to played a few matches

[marble lance]

i wouldn't regret picking leo as he's still a really important mon to have

but i completely understand the regrets

because they do make sense

if you haven't been touching rta yet

anyway i still dont know what you're looking for regarding learning about leo

[slim hatch]

Get some win, some lose, and yep I don't really like when enemy Sav vio proc 9999 times and kills me

[marble lance]

we can answer any questions you have about him

it's not something complex or something where there's lots of different high level viewpoints

[slim hatch]

to sum up, here's what I understand about him:

1. the dude is overrated, he limit everyone else spd but keeps the turn order the same. he can manipulate turn order too but they can be countered by will and resisted => not a good pick for siege
2. he help reducing runes requirements, the leo christina thinggee is great because of that, but I heard you mentioned somewhere christina is the only dd worth using here

[slim hatch]

how does he work in rta?

@verbal sentinel I had a match with a c3 dude that played somewhere in 2018

I understand the dude will greatly outrune me, so my mind instantly think about picking Leo

I'll be doom instantly if his vio monsters move as fast as my swift booster and infinite turn more than me

turn out I can still do something and even almost kill one of his monsters, he didn't seems like he was toying with me then

[slim hatch]

my guess is maybe he can be picked as a last slot, then do something like making enemy stripper move after gany

but like I said he can be countered by will runes, and in my case I even run tiana on swift will in ao to prevent non stripper from instantly kill me if I fail to outspeed

[marble lance]

we can separate out pvp into 5 distinct areas

rta, arena offense, arena defense, siege offense, siege defense

he's great in rta, good but kinda niche for arena offense, bad for arena defense, top tier for siege offense, and bad for siege defense

he's overrated because people are considering him to be the very best nat 5 in the game, but as you can see he's actually horrible in 2 of them and only really good in 2 others

there are other monsters that are even more versatile and more widely used than him

for arena offense your analysis is really good - the atb reduction on hit seems cool and could be really useful for ao in terms of decreasing atb of enemy first turn mon like a stripper

but it's countered by will, or it can simply just be resisted

so even though you can ensure leo moves first, he can't do that much with his turn, and you cannot ensure that the rest of your team is able to move before the enemy

siege offense is the place he really shines, because you simply bring him into defs where the main threat is speed scaling

so immediately with him just being on the field, you cut out a ton of the damage from the def side

and that is a huge advantage

think things like theo and sav

[slim hatch]

oh

yeah it make prrfct sense

[marble lance]

and then your other 2 monsters on your team that you bring with leo, because again we rune teams and not monsters, those 2 monsters are runed to not have speed either

so you get a huge stat advantage there as well

for siege offense purposes you don't even care about leo's damage, or atb reduction

just the "set speed of all monsters on the field to 100" is so good

[slim hatch]

Ok so for example against the moore sav nora def

[marble lance]

leo tetra any bruiser

rune tetra and that bruiser with 0 spd

and then you can basically hit auto

and come back to a win

[slim hatch]

There is an option where I can load runes with just 200k mana

I usually use that option when I do ToA hell and want to runes my mons with strong vio that are usually on siege mons

[marble lance]

you can do that, or you can just make a dedicated leo team anyway since you probably should be using him every siege regardless

[wind kiln]

@marble lance when you get a chance can you give some advice on my thread (no rush thank you).

[slim hatch]

there's even a dedicated leo team?

[marble lance]

no i meant

whatever sort of leo team you find yourself usually using

for example leo tetra feng

(or if you want a f2p feng, roid is great)

[slim hatch]

dom?

[marble lance]

uhh sure

then you can rune that tetra with 0 spd

and that bruiser with 0 spd

and only use it with leo

[slim hatch]

I think about Leo when fighting Sav and way too speedy teams that definitely don't run will on boosters

[marble lance]

for siege will on the enemy literally does not matter

you don't care about the leo pushback or who gets first turn or not

you're bruisering it out

[slim hatch]

How about against def with orion?

Or just some weird mofo that basically runs cleave teams to def?

[marble lance]

you can tank shit with leo

that's the whole point

he makes your team super tanky relative to your opponent

[slim hatch]

I got the point

Ok so I can rune the Dominic now

I'm still doing fine without Dominic, so even if I lack him as an usual option for bruisering

oh wait

[slim hatch]

if you run feng and tetra on 0 spd, you can only use them with leo

[marble lance]

yes

that's what i mean by dedicated team

[slim hatch]

Hmm since we still use them maybe it won't be a waste

So just leo domic +1 against everything

[marble lance]

leo support bruiser

most common supports are tetra, lulu, riley, aaliyah

[slim hatch]

Lucklily I have a dupe tetra

Thanks for your help

I'll learn more about Leo to do better next siege

At least now I have something to deal with Sav

[marble lance]

as for leo in rta

it's a bit more complicated since opponent can just ban him

leo usually ends up being a force ban and you can draft him into opponent who picks a bunch of spd scaling dds like miles, sonia, masha, etc

[slim hatch]

oh yeah

they are super popular in rta

even the f2p tesa is have speed scaling

[marble lance]

yes

although that one is a tricky interaction since tesa can counter leo

[slim hatch]

tesa can counter everything

that rta match against 2018 dude, he banned my tesa twice

[slim hatch]

I remember that one time I used bolv against perna wind paladin +1

The +1 have no heal tho

I used bolv windy lulu

They stack buffs too slowly

[marble lance]

i guess if you dont have aaliyah or amelia you do have to be a bit pickier in where you can use bolv

because those are much better than lulu

and second was your windy on destroy?

windy is a bruiser, not just tank/support

[slim hatch]

Oh

Well I didn't

This windy is a bruiser is new to me

Like even prenerf sometimes I find him failed to tank big fire damage like perna

99% perna out there run destroy

[silent lance]

Windy (Wind Jack-o'-lantern)

Wikia

1. Trickster

Attacks an enemy 3 times. Each attack has a 30% chance to decrease the enemy's Attack Speed for 2 turns. This attack will deal more damage according to your Attack Speed.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%

Multiplier

{ATK}*({SPD} + 180)/230 x3

2. Song of the Night Wind

Increases the Attack Speed and Critical Rate of all allies for 2 turns. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1

3. The Shadow of the Moon (Passive)

Becomes immune against the Defense decreasing effect and creates a shield that's equivalent to 10% of your MAX HP for 1 turn on all allies excluding yourself when you're attacked. This effect only activates once a turn. [Automatic Effect]

Levels

Shield +10%
Shield +10%

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

And that's really bad, comparing to my Rina who tank Sav like nothing even while def broken

[hybrid crystal]

With arti and decent speed, he could provide decent damage

[slim hatch]

additional damage on def

that seems to be the only practical way for him to do damage, as he doesn't scale with hp

also might help if built on 205 tick too

[marble lance]

yes you still build him tanky but use add dmg from artis for dmg

205 tick as opposed to what? should be 205 tick if you're just starting, and try to get to 239 tick soon

[slim hatch]

Windy is still first and foremost there to tank

Without enough HP he would fail that task

Otherwise you need to update #1048719420870107227

not to mention windy base spd is kind of low

[silent lance]

Windy (Wind Jack-o'-lantern)

Wikia

Base

HP: 9720 — DEF: 637
ATK: 692 — SPD: 101
CR: 15 — CD: 50
ACC: 0 — RES: 15

Info

Type: Support
Stars: 5
Devils: 9
Farmable: GS

Awaken

From: Jack-o'-lantern

Lead

Increase the Defense of ally monsters in the Dungeons by 33%

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

just average

that's quite a lot of tankiness for more turns

[marble lance]

how does the windy build in the guide differ from what i'm suggesting

[slim hatch]

and since he'll deal damage based on hp, less hp is less damage, so you're kind of doing less damage more times

it's listed as a tank

not a bruiser

[marble lance]

nothing is black and white

[slim hatch]

If that's the case, maybe we can do it like triana case

put both in bruisser and tank category

[marble lance]

i think the part you're missing is that even tanks need speed

i'm not suggesting building atk or crit on him

making him do dmg doesn't make him less tanky

thats the power of artis

every single tank there i would build at at least 205 tick

even rina

[slim hatch]

huh

the rina in the guide is about +60 spd or sth

but I get it is "beginner" Rina

[marble lance]

yea sure it's ok but not good

and especially now, 2 years later

with rina getting buffed twice since then, plus natural power creep

definitely would be building her 205 tick no question even for beginners

[slim hatch]

just curious how did she got buffed

[marble lance]

her s2 got buffed twice

it used to be a weak heal on herself and 1 other monster

then it got buffed to be decent heal on your entire team

then it got buffed again to also cleanse a debuff

so it's a pretty legit support skill now

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

and when i say natural power creep

i mean both in terms of rune quality available to you

but also monster power creep

you'll be facing stronger defs with better monsters now

and you need your offense monsters to do more

[slim hatch]

windy got nerfed pretty badly

now I don't even understand if he can be an usual tank

he take hit and create shield for 2 monsters that aren't supposed to take hit?

Or maybe we're supposed to play 3 elements offense with him now

like against orion sav perna

I'll run tractor windy racuni

with windy tanking perna to create shield for tractor

[marble lance]

not being able to be def broken is huge

windy is fine

[slim hatch]

like building triana on bruiser build?

I haven't seen a bruiser triana before

[marble lance]

building triana on crit is pretty common

[hybrid crystal]

crit rate slot 4 in harp magician not rare

[silent lance]

Triana (Wind Harp Magician)

Wikia

1. Tempting Dream

Attacks the enemy target to put the enemy to sleep for 1 turn with a 10% chance and absorb the Attack Bar by 15% with a 30% chance. The damage increases accordingly to your Attack Speed.

Levels

Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%

Multiplier

{ATK}*({SPD} + 60)/50

2. Healing Music

Removes harmful effects of an ally target, recovers the HP of all allies by 20% each, and grants immunity for 1 turn. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Recovery +5%
Recovery +5%
Recovery +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

3. Salvation Song (Passive)

Offsets the incoming damage that may cause your ally to die and instantly gains another turn. [Automatic Effect] (Reusable in 8 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

Hmm

Spd scaling

But what about Harmonia?

[marble lance]

harmonia is same thing. you can build harmonia on dmg

but dmg harmonia is slightly weaker/less efficient than dmg triana

because harmonia has 2 non dmging skills

oh also your spd scaling comment reminded me

i meant to reply to one of your comments in someone else's thread but i forgot where it was

it was about speed ticks and you mentioned tesa at 205

don't do that, minimum 239 if not 286

tesa scales on spd

so just lower crit/atk and add more spd

which means you don't lose dmg, and you gain spd for free

slot 4 cr is very common on tesa, slot 4 cd can be too hard to do

[slim hatch]

I don't build atk on him btw

[marble lance]

?

you're not runing him correctly

[slim hatch]

I do't have the game with me now

But I remember him on 205 spd, spd cr hp build

[marble lance]

i don't know where your stats are going into

[slim hatch]

He is +23k hp and 50 res

Have some acc and def as well

I'll post the build tommorow

[merry star]

Res is all or nothing. Thought you said you regularly reread beginner PvP

[slim hatch]

Bro

I use him on def, with res lead he is 100 res

That also mentioned somewhere

[slim hatch]

I'm pretty sure my better runes are on him as a siege defense mons, just wanna say he is build to also serve as a tank

[slim hatch]

@marble lance how do I counter the bolv amelia skoguo def

It looks really weird in theory but csn actually do great

[marble lance]

just cleave it

it cannot do great

[slim hatch]

Coppering seems legit

I don't want to risk weaker cleave against tanky mons and 44% lead

[marble lance]

coppering is fine

you just have to dozer skogul first, and be patient

i.e. if bolv amelia both have def buff just wait it out

[slim hatch]

Here's my bruiser Leo

[marble lance]

is that a question

[slim hatch]

idk just wanna here some opinion about it

I have dark undine and helena

[marble lance]

i told you already that outside rta he's almost always built as a tank

figure out teams you want to use him against

[slim hatch]

t4 I'd have won if I use tesa vigor tetra instead

Tesa is 100 res and he literally resisted all debuff before that

Leo still got hit sometimes, but one def break from carc and he killed leo, I lost the 2v2 with elemental disadvantage

Hmm can't remember what's wrong with my mind when fighting this

When was the last time I lost so miserably?

But well at least Leo got his use correctly for once

Sav hit like wet noodle

[marble lance]

you want to split up the carc and miles so they can't both hit the same target

that means best is wind tank + 2 water

i like malite vigor lulu

also your leo died in 1 hit?

[slim hatch]

no, he tanks a bunch of carc shot without def break

and he got brought down to about 60% hp, carc almost die

he s2, got a vio proc and kills leo

[marble lance]

is your leo still on that bad build?

[slim hatch]

yes?

[marble lance]

well then

carc is not ignore def

you can have more def not just more hp

that same carc would not be doing 40k to a tankier leo

leo comp is not the worst here, a lot of people use it, but there's better team without leo

you're being quite insolent here and it's putting me off

[slim hatch]

oh really sorry if anything I said make you feel that way

please don't be mad at me I never meant to upset you

[marble lance]

ok so you ask about leo

i tell you he's built tank for siege

then you go do some "research" and dig up a random 6 year old reddit thread

i tell you again he's built tank for siege, with more explanation

then you drop a screenshot of a non-tank leo build asking for "opinions"

i tell you again he's built tank for siege

then you proceed to use that leo, and immediately lose because the leo is squishy

and still try to argue that it's not because your leo wasn't tanky enough

i'm totally ok with people not following everything i say, but at this point it almost feels like you're just taunting me

even if you aren't trying

[slim hatch]

I'll rune him on 100% res build tanky next time

For that match, a dialouge running through my head

Will tesa alone have enough damage for this?

And then I decide I may just keep that Leo for this fight

The reason I lost this match was because def break

[marble lance]

yes. building something tanky means they can possibly survive even when def broken

[slim hatch]

Tesa himself is on 100 res so he didn't got def broken

[marble lance]

100 res is not going to always prevent you from getting def broken

the common leo counter to this is tesa lulu leo

it's just ok

it's not my favorite

tesa as the only dd is enough though

can give him destroy too

[slim hatch]

Only when he is on destroy he'll have enough I suppose

That Triana heal is nothing to be scoffed at

[marble lance]

this is example of a leo

[slim hatch]

set 2 t1 I actually won because Leo don't really tank hits

[slim hatch]

that 60 is when you use him with Jeanne lead i guess?

[marble lance]

the high def is just because i was bringing this into sav and was trying to not get def broken by sav. in all other cases you can drop some def for hp and have like +40k hp +1k def

yes the res is so he can be used with jeanne or tesa

the double will is nice so he still has will on enemy's turn

the shield helps against single buff strippers like cichlid or clara

[slim hatch]

I got the idea

[marble lance]

but its not completely avoidable

your leo can get def broken by theo

or sav

and then everything will hit him

[slim hatch]

He actually got def broken there, but sav just hit less than 10k per hit and nothing really gone wrong

but just ignore that, wrong build shouldn't get much attention

I think the other losses matter much more

[marble lance]

r2 i like the fire tank + 2 water idea

but water twins bad here because you have no strip vs louise

and harmonia isn't the best tank

this is one to copper/dozer

[slim hatch]

What if I still want to fire +2 water this?

Do I need premium shjt like Miles, who can also strip?

[marble lance]

that would be nice

could just do a tanky lala or nora as the fire tank

and then bring a wind support like triana or riley

and then 1 water dd

vigor or manon are fine

[slim hatch]

I see, so you want to share the damage burden on nora

[marble lance]

yea because there's no good super fire tank

[slim hatch]

I didn't think about that before

[marble lance]

like there is for water and wind

closest is kunite

but i dont think he's that appropriate here

r3 very similar thing

copper/dozer if possible

otherwise use a rina or tractor to tank feng

then bring your lala or nora as strip support

[slim hatch]

I remembered

[marble lance]

then either a tanky bruiser wind like roid

[slim hatch]

R3 I didn't lose because Byung die

[marble lance]

or tesa if you didn't use him earlier

[slim hatch]

It's because the fight just last forever

[marble lance]

you didn't bring a def break

and i dont know if you have byung/perna on destroy

[slim hatch]

I have perna on destroy

And, oh fuck, he outdestroyed me

then for a moment of mistake, I hit feng with racuni

he then got def broken and laika killed racuni

maybe byung nora tesa can be a better option here

[marble lance]

byung racuni and choose one of nora or tesa

[slim hatch]

oh yeah

dot work perfectly

[marble lance]

for 4r you can't use bombs vs rakan

only against perna

should cleave this but if you have to bruiser it your best bet is probably bolv lulu windy

5r was just bad target to copper/dozer, out of all the defs to use copper/dozer on you chose this one lol

not only is elad very anti cleave in himself, miles can easily just outspeed imesety and stun dozer

[slim hatch]

I hitted Elad with Copper

[marble lance]

this is another def that bolv or nora will wreck if you want to bruiser it

[slim hatch]

tried to brute force ophi with dozer but failed

I didn't use bolv and nora a lot

I don't really get why tho, like 80% match out there I don't even think about using them

but now I start to get an idea

[slim hatch]

I thought about mihyang ehsir cov/kahli here

But maybe it won't be practical

say I kills one of the rakan or seara, but then what next

Will they just solo me?

[marble lance]

yes

mihyang eshir cov is just not enough dmg

i forgot you have adriana too... she is op

you can do mihyang adriana taru if you don't have sonia

then you can kill 2 monsters not just 1

[slim hatch]

mihyang only have a weaker s2

maybe I can use it to kill seara

My runes aren't good enough yet to just build +150 spd on dd and have it tuned to spd buff

So the only choice here is to use taru

[marble lance]

what do you mean mihyang only have a weaker s2

[slim hatch]

I never managed to kill something with her s2, maybe it's because my runes are bad?

[marble lance]

how have you tried to use her?

i think on equal rune quality mihyang might actually do more dmg than taru on that team

[marble lance]

are you using her with both atk buff and spd buff?

[slim hatch]

not yet

so I'll build a adriana and try out

[marble lance]

you can try it out with kahli or hraes instead of adriana

(and that's a team that you can then use on 4* towers too)

[slim hatch]

I see

she hit about 35k on this ristesh

not enough to one shot him yet, but 35k is also equal to my fat lushen

[marble lance]

yea remember this is a spd contesting comp, you're not going to be hitting tanky bruiser stuff

you just need to 1 shot a seara or something

[slim hatch]

Can you reliably cleave the tanky bruiser stuff anw

So far the best method I can think of is to copper dozer or tiana galleon

[marble lance]

with better monsters and runes yes

[slim hatch]

this is my current kahli

she hit about 47k in s2 if she keep that spd

[marble lance]

this looks reasonable for a kahli with garo draco kahli

too slow for a dd to be used with praline

and if you want to use kahli as a buffer, need to be much much faster (or just swap top set swift)

[slim hatch]

47k should be enough to kills all non tank monsters

[marble lance]

yea but this is not a very useful speed

you dont even have draco to use the draco team

[slim hatch]

So I can drop some damage for spd, how much damage do you think is safe enough

[slim hatch]

yeah I usually use her in cov megan/hongeon kahli team

Oh and this too

the carc vigor triana def

get rid of triana and carc, then just try to kill vigor

kahli s3 is actually useful here

but it might be better to use oberon, which can mitigate risk

[slim hatch]

Ophillia here also seems super anti bruisering

So either we try to bruiser ophilia

Or try to strip that threat

[marble lance]

yea but she needs to be way faster to be used with megan or hongyeon

[marble lance]

this isn't a good question

you have her tuned to your boosters spd, and then as much dmg as possible

you don't aim for a certain amount of damage and then use that to figure out speed

[marble lance]

not against nora or bolverk

[slim hatch]

wait why tho?

[marble lance]

is your megan/hongyeon really that slow?

[slim hatch]

they are like +165 +170

[marble lance]

that's super slow and not really viable

that's slower than 286 tick even

meaning you get outsped by regular vio bruisers

you have to remember that you're playing way below the level you belong in

[slim hatch]

oh fck

that can only be solved by farming giants

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

but even my fastest boosters aren't fast

kabilla is only +200

and bernard is +185

[marble lance]

i dont know if you have mana issues or not

if you don't and care about siege, considering swapping around your top set

or i guess you dont need to now

but keep in mind that that's a common standard

so if you're looking for goals

you want to have all your cleave dds tuned to whatever that top set is

[slim hatch]

I kind of get it now

But oh boy

[marble lance]

yes you'll need to farm giants

[slim hatch]

Just looking at this make me feels scared

[marble lance]

but it's definitely the way to go

[marble lance]

cleaving is always safer when that is an option

you don't need insane runes, but you do need good runes

[slim hatch]

at 240 spd, maybe my kahli will hit way less

[marble lance]

consider reapping swift runes

[slim hatch]

a bit more than 40k or sth

[slim hatch]

got it

[marble lance]

but still

even if you're not swapping

really, +164 megan is not usable for sure in any situation

[slim hatch]

and that's what I need to work on

if that's true, I should be winning every single fight

but that's not the case, sometimes I even lose because of rune issues

[marble lance]

your losses are almost all bad teams or incorrectly runed teams

they are not getting outruned

[slim hatch]

maybe I'm just dumb?

[marble lance]

no just still learning

anyway i wouldn't run anything less than like ~280 spd (rune speed, not including tower/lead) for boosters

that puts you at around 10 spd over 286 tick

i think the beginner pvp account has like 7 sets over +180 being used at the same time, its definitely not crazy

[slim hatch]

I don't think ppl in asia server really understand 239 286 tick thingees

[marble lance]

its not a server difference

at low levels most people don't

but at beginner g1 siege level you'll have lots of retired/farming accounts who do

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

its just a good threshold to aim for

don't bother saving second (or 3rd or 5th or 8th) tier swift sets that slow

[slim hatch]

I got the idea

thank you so much

sorry for the earlier things, sometimes I'm a dick without even realizing that

[marble lance]

its fine, again if you don't believe something i say i'm not going to get offended by it immediately, but id rather you just ask for elaboration than try to find some other random opinion

i'm also quite aware of common things that other people do even if i don't personally agree with it, like you'll see me say a lot that "a lot of other people use X team but i personally don't"

[slim hatch]

yeah I do notice that

in the baleygr things for example

we might be the only server out there that don't run bjr5 and tbh, bjr5 being fast and easy to set up is still a good reason to build it

I also run a summoenrs war server myself

For R5, I advise ppl to improve on sr5 and while I explained clearly bjr5 isn't optimal in long term, I still give a post on how to build it for anyone who feels like it

[slim hatch]

Also try to do sth on my alt, which for some reason is just way luckier

I actually can win this if I wasn't reckless, I killed the Jubelle and just start autoing it, focusing on vigor, but then somehow Vigor vio proc and manage to kill tesa

I'll keep that in mind

maybe I should cleave t3

try bruisering and rely on revive isn't practical, odin just kill me again

[hybrid crystal]

I think u need to bring strip in that chandra odin def if u want to bruise, or chandra can just protect odin until odin have enough stack to kill u again

[slim hatch]

or just cleave the shjt of it out

kill odin twice and once he die, I can safely bruiser it out

Or maybe I can try stripping

But I'll always cleave whenever possilbe

[marble lance]

t1 looks dangerous, you can easily miss pushback and glance on masha and she starts taking over especially with the boost from haegang

t3 - yes cleave is good, if you want to bruiser it you just need much more high hp tank units, preferably premium ones too like elad, diana, xing, triana, byung, etc

tractor is really not smart here as there's not even a def break on the enemy side lol

t4 - 2 water + windy is safer here, again you want to try to split up dmg from enemy dds whenever possible

tesa will get hit by both carc and camilla when hes def broken

t5 - water tank + 2 fire is great, but your choice of water tank is not ideal. talc is used into multihitters so that his passive actually works, for example dom or fuuki

xing has no multihits and will not activate talc passive with his hits

rina would be better here

[slim hatch]

I see

[slim hatch]

Oh yeah that's the best way to ultilize windy

[slim hatch]

This is what I did in the first set

[slim hatch]

@marble lance I think set 1 t5 is lushenable

but how did I do in that match?

[marble lance]

oh this one? i didn't see it

r1 - would always cleave this (double snipe), if you want to bruiser i dunno if i like tesa here would do rina or tetra + 2 wind like triana hraes

r2 - not safe you have major speed disadvantage

[slim hatch]

cichlid you mean?

[marble lance]

r3 - i guess this is ok

r4 - don't like this, you don't have enough cleanse. need tetra, racuni, or similar unit in there. since this is wgb vero is good too

r5 - not good, you can still get proc'ed on to lose even if you have revivers

[slim hatch]

why is vero usable in wgb and not siege

[marble lance]

i meant it's a 4* def. you may see it in regular siege too and you wont be able to use vero there

but this is wgb so yes you can use vero

[slim hatch]

I see

[slim hatch]

you mean his dark kaki vio proc?

[marble lance]

revive comps are valid though but you want stuff like psama iunu

[slim hatch]

I start investing some defense for this account as well

The first 3 def is what I want to focus on

[marble lance]

first 2 defs are fine

don't like 3rd def at all, you have no spd threat, only 1 single target def break and a different weak single target strip

[slim hatch]

I'll upload a swarfarm, wait a bit

[slim hatch]

I might do even better with mihyang zen tesa here

[marble lance]

yes that is fine

[slim hatch]

https://swarfarm.com/profile/AnotherUser/

swarfarm just take forever

[slim hatch]

?ad

[reef pawn]

The following is a generic template for building an arena defense that's applicable anywhere from conqueror to G3. The listed monsters are just examples, there's certainly other viable options that are not mentioned.

1. Speed lead: Vanessa, Psamathe, Clara, Halphas, Moore

2. AoE stripper: Triton, Clara, Nora, Juno, Zen, Byungchul, Amduat

3. Bruiser: Camilla, Savannah, Byungchul, Perna, Rakan

4. Support: Abellio, Triana, Manon, or simply another bruiser from the category above

If you don't have any of these premium options, common f2p siege def monsters can be used as well: Vigor, Eshir, Cichlid, Chilling, Iunu, Tesa, etc. Example complete f2p def would be Clara Vigor Triana Tesa.

Note that working on any sort of PvP is useless until you've completed finished PvE. If you are just trying to get to 1300 arena points for the Summoners Way mission, read ?arenamission.

When you are just starting to work on arena and aiming for conq ranks, you should be focusing 95% of your efforts on AO. You climb by improving your offense and being able to beat more defs, consistently, and faster. AD is mostly a deterrent to discourage players from hitting you in the first place, there's very little you can do to get def wins. And even then, people will always attack you no matter what. Your only option to get a higher rank is to win on offense faster than people attack your defense.

Feel free to ask for help and feedback by starting a post in #1047269577614164098 , but show that you've read this and have given it some thought and effort yourself first. What teams have you already tried? What teams do you think would be good to try?

[slim hatch]

I want to ask a bit about the speed lead option

say you have a clara abelio camilla +1 def

is it really threatening to keep clara 19 spd lead, instead of a oliver, chiwu or chandra that aren't mentioned here assuming I have one of them?

[marble lance]

what is the +1

[slim hatch]

if I'm following the guide, it'll be a bruiser

so clara abellio camilla rakan

or one of the lead spd that isn't mentioned

[marble lance]

clara will deter tiana and challenge a lot of mid range comps like bombs or leah who have a 24 lead + not a super high base booster

oliver is useless because there's no spd threat. people will use tiana or anything else

[slim hatch]

so I can oliver clara abellio camilla

[marble lance]

chiwu is similar to clara, but essentially just a worse version of her because no stun

[slim hatch]

just the same structure, a lead spd that also do sth, a good stripper, a bruiser and sth anti cleave

[marble lance]

chandra faces same problem as oliver. or if you want to be tricky and rune chandra on swift, then its really not any better than clara either

[marble lance]

the faster spd lead doesn't do anything though

you're not deterring any new AOs that you weren't deterring before

instead you're giving up a strong bruiser so all it does is just make your def weaker

[slim hatch]

yeah I also think about that

just wanna confirm

[slim hatch]

as for strong bruiser, if I lack the premium shjt I can just use sth that is in siege def right

like clara abellio camilla laika

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

I adjusted my def

While the first three defs can do sth, I just want to come up with something look threatening enough to not insta lose for the last 2

But so far I have no real idea for that yet

[marble lance]

gal clara kaki

and then i dunno, just use whatever best runed pve mons you have that includes def break and strip

hraes loren darion

[slim hatch]

Darion?

You don't even consider roid?

Oh will Loren be really viable for siege def?

[marble lance]

Loren used to be meta on siege def like 6 years ago she’s not horrible

Strip and def break

But we don’t really care about this def and you have nothing

Not worth building a new Mon

Roid is fine but all you have left are wind bruisers and can’t stack too many of them together

[slim hatch]

what about liesel

One important thing he have is AoE def break, also adding some pushback

[marble lance]

liesel is ok but he's probably runed on a cleave build right? which would be really bad for def

runes are so incredibly more important than composition for siege def

you're better offwith something like vero loren fran if they have your best runes because you're still using some pve stuff

than the most op meta chandra byung whatever if they were on leftover or wrong builds

[slim hatch]

my pve stuff won't have their better runes

And ofc not Vio

I won't put Vio/Nem spd/hp/hp build for Vero

[marble lance]

it's just an example

[slim hatch]

another siege done

I gradually improve my wait of thinking a bit

I gave up on bruisering these, copper dozer might be the safer way, cleaving are the safer choice if built correctly

I tried to counterbalance the hp lead using the atk lead from cov, but to no avail, he won, so this time I try bruisering, I can't think of a suitable cleave for this

I lost twice on this paticular def, I don't usually see 3 bruiser on the same def and it's confused me

these are the easy wins

Now to focus on my alt

I lost this due to tian lang outsped and just give up

on this def, I underestimated the threat of clara, not only she can do some decent damage, but also the stun and that fcking def break on s2

on this def, I won but it wasn't an easy fight, I got cced a lot and I guess I picked the right strategy

Some easier wins

[marble lance]

show builds

how did you play it out?

[slim hatch]

both of the time I lost because they are just too tanky

and that laika hit really hard

I targetted the woosa because it might be the only pratical way to win, otherwise he'll just sustain with s2, s3

There's also not a lot of debuff for lala to s3

eventually I lost because laika kill roid

[marble lance]

targeting woosa is correct

[slim hatch]

I also notice roid being not op as I thought

the idea is to strip woosa so that I can provoke him forever

but no, against already def broken target he won't provoke

[slim hatch]

there's also a problem with the strip

because they are AoE, both feng and laika counter attack

[marble lance]

lala can strip without aoe

nora you just have to be careful not to use it when feng has counterattack up

its fine to take laika hits

show builds

[slim hatch]

I think they are both tanky enough to tank hits

but only when not def broken

and definitely not when laika s2 on def broken target

oh didn't realize lala rune was so bad

[silent lance]

Here is the requested monster.

summoner1722 - Lala and Friends

Full views:
#1 Lala and Friends

#1 Violent, Revenge

SPD, HP%, HP%

HP: 36300
DEF: 1361
ATK: 821
SPD: 215
CR: 15%
CD: 50%
ACC: 23%
RES: 93%
EHP: 214297
Effcy: 97.10%

provided by SWARFARM

[marble lance]

if it's runed considerably worse than summoner1722

thats a bad sign

[slim hatch]

well I'll try to farm more rune for him

[marble lance]

roid looks pretty weak too

bad efficiency too, theres a lot of random cd on it

also you didn't even show rina, she is important too

remember she is not just a tank

with decent speed she is important as a support

especially when you use her with nora, because then on that team rina is your only cleanse

[slim hatch]

I also haven't improve my rina

I'll keep that in mind

but for now I'll just try to improve gradually

[marble lance]

the team is fine, runes are just weak

[slim hatch]

tbh some of my runes aren't fully grined yet

so right now I'm sleeping in r5

@hybrid crystal bjr5 time?

[hybrid crystal]

fire unit has cleanse so u cant bomb with that team

[slim hatch]

it was noon when we start the siege, wasn't really concious back then

[marble lance]

cleave is fine but you just need better cleave runes

xing is the tankiest though keep that in mind. dunno which you targeted first

[slim hatch]

you can join my guild and help carry my ass

[slim hatch]

I tried to kill rakan first

[marble lance]

well you're killing 2 units first

[slim hatch]

he alive with like 1 hp

and wreck me

[marble lance]

as long as you recognized that xing is potentially the tankiest and you trie dto kill rakan with kahli and ariel with cov

then it was a good try and you lost due to rune issue only

[slim hatch]

yeah there's not much I can do about that

keep farming I guess

[marble lance]

lala bad choice here, racuni is better because camilla can cc the fire

the 2nd bruiser team was really bad

tractor is really bad here, he doesn't need to tank anything and no def breaks will even hit him

raviti also sucks in general

[slim hatch]

I know, I'm still fusing riley for that

it'll take a while

[marble lance]

as long as you had destroy it should have been easy

[slim hatch]

What should I use then?

Another water bruiser

[marble lance]

windy and anything...

the first thing you need to do

when trying to figure out how to bruiser anything

is to identify the def breaks and where they can go

if the only def break is single target from fire

then you should instantly be thinking oh this is an easy windy

and theres nothing else to think about

[slim hatch]

hmm so maybe windy vigor +1 wind

[marble lance]

????

[slim hatch]

oh wait

that +1 wind can be hitted by clara

+1 fire will be cced by camilla

ok this isn't that easy

windy racuni vigor?

yeah there's no real def break here only triana will hit vigor

maybe I can even go wild and use theo

but vigor has heal

yeah it'll be vigor

[marble lance]

windy racuni vigor sounds fine

[slim hatch]

ok tysm

I wrapped it up and learnt a thing or two

[marble lance]

do you know what tian lang does? you comp doesn't work unless you've tuned your monsters just for it

[slim hatch]

I usually win the fight if I can go before tian lang

oh that's not really true theoritically

[marble lance]

ok so you don't know what tian lang does

read his skills

[slim hatch]

Ok so I can't reliable cleave this

[marble lance]

you can its just not as easy

for example i'd use something like mihyang adriana/kahli sonia/taru (this cleave has no atb boost)

[slim hatch]

he reduce 50% atb boost and get maybe 25% atb, so if I lushen for some reason can have 70% atb before the fight start I'll lose

[silent lance]

Tian Lang (Light Panda Warrior)

Wikia

Base

HP: 12345 — DEF: 637
ATK: 681 — SPD: 96
CR: 15 — CD: 50
ACC: 0 — RES: 15

Info

Type: HP
Stars: 6
Devils: 10
Farmable: No

Awaken

From: Panda Warrior

Lead

Increase the HP of ally monsters in the Guild Battles by 44%

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

Oh he's also pretty slow

[marble lance]

or you can tune a comp that takes into account the reduced atb you would be getting

for example i can also use galleon tiana cp against it

but my galleon and cp are 270+ spd

and they are that fast specifically to deal with tl

as normally they only need to be like 230 spd to be tuned to tiana

[slim hatch]

I give up, won't cleave this

[marble lance]

well mihyang adriana/kahli sonia/taru is an important cleave you should work towards getting sooner or later

we already talked about it

[slim hatch]

it might be more reasonable to bruise

[slim hatch]

Assuming my adrina is +170 spd, how fast do I need my taru and mihyang be?

[marble lance]

that's going to be super difficult to bruiser

cleaving it is much much easier than bruiser

[marble lance]

https://swgt.io/speedTickBracketCalculator.do?method=load

[slim hatch]

this tool looks nice

I'll test a bit

[marble lance]

another def with only 1 def break, single target coming from fire

[slim hatch]

Windy

[marble lance]

you're still doing a really bad job of picking the correct units to use

unless you're just out of units and knowingly using unoptimal units because you have no choice

like why talc as a tank?

talc is only there to tank against multihitters so that his passive likely comes into effect

like dom

or maybe if you want talc as a def buff for someone on your team that can utilize the def buff, like feng

[slim hatch]

I'd use Rina if she is still available

[marble lance]

byung and ritesh are just generic decent bruisers

which are fine to use but

[slim hatch]

But after that I take a closer look on that fire dude

[marble lance]

you need to put together some better "premium generic bruiser teams"

rather htan throwing random stuff together

[slim hatch]

He's also a bruiser

[marble lance]

you can bruiser against bruiser

and if you do bring generic bruisers like byung and ritesh

you gotta make sure they are runed super well

[slim hatch]

What does this really mean?

Like Tractor Windy Lulu?

[marble lance]

when i say premium i imply something with strong nat 5

so not tractor windy lulu

[slim hatch]

Bolv

[marble lance]

yea so right now for siege meta (i know you dont have all of these but they are just examples)

[slim hatch]

Ah and maybe the Jeanne Helena Leo

[marble lance]

bolv amelia/aaliyah windy/mo long

feng vela aaliyah

jeanne leo helena

leo tetra/lulu +some other bruiser life feng,xing,etc

[slim hatch]

Hmm I thought this is supposed to be bad def

[marble lance]

it is a bad def

[slim hatch]

So can I beat this with some kind of generic random stuff together offense?

[marble lance]

yea i guess i was just saying talc is not a good monster in general and shouldn't have been used here

[slim hatch]

Their team also seems to have infinite sustain, so my offense will need practically all def breaks I can use here

Maybe Vigor Ritesh Tesa?

Vigor Windy Tesa

[marble lance]

how is your ritesh runed?

ritesh in general is not great, but he usable

but to be usable he's going to need really good runes

also you skilled him up?

[slim hatch]

Just generic bruiser, I don't have my phone with me now

[marble lance]

that sounds like you have absolute shit runes on him

[slim hatch]

I haven't, right now I'm doing riley

[marble lance]

ok so just derune ritesh

and forget about him

if you don't have devils then work on things that don't need devils

roid is a great wind bruiser that doesn't need devils

give him better runes

work on dupe trianas

triana can be a bruiser too runed on crit

[slim hatch]

He is in siege def so I have some of my better runes on him

[marble lance]

but you said he's not skilled up?

that's not acceptable

[slim hatch]

The leftover def

The 4th to be exacr

[marble lance]

ok then just dont use him

[slim hatch]

So I might even take him out and put roid there

[marble lance]

i don't understand why you have good runes on a leftover def?

[slim hatch]

They will never be as good as 3 first def

But they are on par with the offense mons

[marble lance]

you should be very concerned

if anything you're using ever

has no skillups

of course a lot of stuff can be used without skillups

but you should be scared and nervous

and needing to ask "is this unit ok to be used without skillups"

instead of feeling "this unit doesn't have skillups? meh probably ok for now"

[slim hatch]

Yeah I'll take Roid in

Dude still have def break, sound defensable

[slim hatch]

Bro made me chuckled, sometimes you sound like you really love this voluntary job

[marble lance]

this game is surprisingly complex and balanced and has a ton of room for creativity. every player and account is a bit different and there's always multiple good approaches to the same problem. so it's very fun

it's fun discussing the strategy parts of the game with people who are interested in it, much more so than just complaining about how unlucky you are

[slim hatch]

Especially when it never solve anything

@marble lance that swgt tools hurt my brain quite a lot

I'll try to learn it if it's the last way, but is there an easier tool to use?

Sth that is similar too swop

[marble lance]

its the only publicly available tool if you're calculating complex stuff, like spd buff no atb boost

theres video guides

[slim hatch]

Yeah I'll try to learn it

Thanks

[slim hatch]

@marble lance morning

based on the calculation I made here, assuming Adriana is +180, then Taru need +160 and Mihyang need +169

I hope I made the calculation correctly

but yeah it's really rune daunting

[marble lance]

yes

what's daunting, the requirements or using the tool

[slim hatch]

the requirements ofc

first lemme try building a +160 taru

[marble lance]

its not that bad for these units

taru only needs 50 cr and has spd awakening

mihyang doesn't need cr

[slim hatch]

basically build her like how I should build tiana right

[silent lance]

Adriana (Water Pudding Princess)

Wikia

1. Sweet Magic

Attacks the enemy target and recovers the HP of the ally with the lowest HP ratio by 10% of your MAX HP.

Levels

Damage +5%
Recovery +5%
Damage +10%
Recovery +10%
Damage +10%
Recovery +10%

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

2. A Scoop of Pudding

Attacks the enemy to grant Oblivion for 2 turns. (Reusable in 3 turns)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

5.6*{ATK}

3. Determination of Dessert Kingdom

Grants Increase Attack Power, Increase Attack Speed, and Immunity on all allies for 2 turns. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

just imagine her with like 20% atb buff instead of spd buff

or just even 15%

[marble lance]

she's already way overpowered as is

[slim hatch]

what is the strategy to manage a siege battle

in addition of hitting def you're cappable of, is there a general mindset for guild leaders?

[marble lance]

like siege macro and managing the map?

[slim hatch]

yes

[marble lance]

keep the map marked, stay in bonus, don't overextend

actually nvm

i dont think there's much you can or should do

you're in some super low guild

[slim hatch]

oh damn, ld5

I remember seeing this dude somewhere in AD

if he get a turn, he just s3 and somehow deal 30k damage no def break

[silent lance]

Zerath (Light Dragon)

Wikia

3. Armageddon

Redistributes the HP of all enemies, excluding the Boss, and sacrifices half of your current HP to deal damage proportionate to the sacrificed HP to all enemies. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

0.65*{Current HP}

Neg. Effects

Redistribute HP
Self-Harm (50%)

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

not that impressive?

[marble lance]

gz

he is very good

has pve speed dungeon usage, viable on both ad and siege def (although i wouldn't say top tier, its a bit hard to use and may require specific other mon), and you can use with tiana for siege offense too

[slim hatch]

how viable btw?

like, is he comparable to the premium options like byung, sav, camilla?

[marble lance]

for AD you'd often see him with 33 lead, a booster like racuni, then another bruiser or support

[slim hatch]

wait I have to build my ad around him?

[marble lance]

yes

you can't just randomly stick him in

thats why i said hard to use

[slim hatch]

damn

[marble lance]

for siege def you'll see stuff like clara sav zerath

[slim hatch]

I thought I could you slip him in and do clara triana tesa zerath

[marble lance]

yea zerath doesn't do much there

[slim hatch]

I don't have sav yet, maybe I can slip in another aoe def breaker?

Nah I give up

Too hard to use

[marble lance]

you have ritesh

but all of it takes nat 5 devil investment

if you're short on devils just hold off for now

[slim hatch]

this one is on my alt

[marble lance]

but in the grand scheme of things zerath is definitely one of the better ld5s in the game

so consider yourself lucky

[slim hatch]

where there is the shiny galleon there

[slim hatch]

thanks

[slim hatch]

oh he is also usable in pve?

what dungeons can he improve?

if the improvements aren't worth I might just let him stay in the storage for a while

[marble lance]

i dunno will have to ask zerath users

but i see him in multiple speed teams

[slim hatch]

oh yeah babe

[marble lance]

Gzzz

[crimson stump]

He’s mostly used in giants for speed teams

How I currently rune mine for giants

He requires high quality runes to get him to work

[slim hatch]

Why do you rate her so highly tbh?

[silent lance]

Bethony (Dark Magical Archer)

Wikia

3. Shadow Arrow

Attacks consecutively with 2 arrows. Each attack has a 30% chance to ignore the enemy's Defense. Increases the chance by 20% for each beneficial effect granted on yourself. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.9*{ATK} x2

Pos. Effects

Ignore DEF

provided by SWARFARM

[hard trellis]

Best snipe in the game basicly

Damage is unreal base very good

[slim hatch]

So in order to get full 100% ignore def, you need 4 buffs on het

[hard trellis]

Yes

[slim hatch]

Adriana can give 3

[marble lance]

not including sonia who is conditional and 5*

beth is by far

the highest dmg single target ignore def nuker in the game

the buff condition is easy to meet

you just need her on will, and someone else on her team to have a shield set

then you can run her with any basic 2 buff buffer like praline, megan, bastet, whatever

adriana like you said even has 3 buffs meaning you can drop shield or will

[slim hatch]

I see

So I get her on Swift Blade and try to give adriana a shield set

And I'll have 100% ignore def

I understood now, will build her

[slim hatch]

that's feel pretty great when I also picked her for the event summon

[slim hatch]

That's comparable to a PvP tank with cdmg build

yeah sound pretty hard to manage

[slim hatch]

?sstones2

[reef pawn]

The following is a list of additional notable elemental 4* monsters. Consider these once you have everything from the first ?sstones list. Each elemental section is roughly in order of priority.

Fire

• Khmun(anubis) - not as meta as he once was but still used for siege offense and defense. Also used in some dhole dungeons like Kharzan
• Clara (pierret) - even though her pieces are available from guild shop, she still deserves a mention here due to how prevalent she is for both siege and arena defense
• Kaki (onimusha) - kinda outdated, but still usable for arena and siege offense
• Draco (brownie magician) - used for siege offense and RTA cleaves
• Kunite (gargoyle) - good tank for siege offense against multihitters
• Garo (ninja) - a bit outdated but still has some occasional use for siege offense

Water

• Kyle (poison master) - used for several end game PvE speed teams, in particular DBAH
• Julie (pierret) - huge AoE nuker used in both PvE and PvP, her pieces are available from guild shop but she's important enough to be mentioned here
• Fedora (death knight) - used as a cleanser for beginner ?sr5 team and also as a buffer for Bolverk teams in ToA Hell
• Tetra (mermaid) - currently the most important water support monster for siege offense
• Covenant (sniper) - one of the best single target ignore defense nukers in the game for siege offense
• Orion (brownie magician) - good for siege defense

Wind

• Cichlid (mermaid) - good for siege defense
• Praline (choco knight) - important buffer for siege offense, paired with single target nukers
• Iunu (anubis) - used in siege and sr5
• wind Robo (robo) - one of the rare elemental nat 4's that still see a lot of play in RTA
• Yeonhwa (string master) - good tank for siege offense, also usable with Bolv teams for ToA Hell
• Malite (gargoyle) - good tank for siege offense

[slim hatch]

@marble lance So the wind robo is good for rta

I also recall Antares being a decent pick

Verde is still verde

What are some other good nat4 for rta?

[marble lance]

you can see for yourself on swarena or m.swranking

[slim hatch]

They aren't sort by star rating

I skimmed on the first 100 and found things like verde, robo, suiki, tetra

[marble lance]

well there you go

[slim hatch]

ok

the current rta meta is mainly cc comp

I guess I can start rta with the robo team

[slim hatch]

bolv aaliyah mo long

or mo long alternatives

[marble lance]

What do you mean

[slim hatch]

the premium bolv team

With her I have enough buff for bolv, I can run another strong bruiser

[marble lance]

bolv amelia/aaliyah +1

the +1 is either mo if you need to more or less guarantee a snipe immediately

or just a tank for whatever the enemy dd is

oftentimes its windy but can really be anything else, ive used stuff like kinki, dias, whatever

[slim hatch]

yeah

[slim hatch]

Set 1 t1 I got outspd

T4 I couldn't kill nana quickly enough, eventually I die

T5 I will never try to one shot Rakan

Set 2 t1 rune issue, failed to one shot Ophilia

T2 The dd hit too hard, Tetra failed to sustain both of them

[marble lance]

t1 you got outsped by that? how fast is your megan? i think we talked about getting your boosters faster right...

[slim hatch]

T3 outspd again

[marble lance]

also that's not a good team

mihyang without spd buff doesn't do enough damage

if you want to do a double snipe comp and you need a speed lead you have 2 options

mihyang + adriana/kahli/hraes + sonia (or taru)

or praline + 2 dd that do not scale with spd

for mihyang its not really "hard" to rune her like that, you trade atk for extra spd but because she's spd scaling she doesn't even lose damage by being runed at a higher spd with less atk

[slim hatch]

Yeah I'll try to rebuild the team again

[marble lance]

t2 - would not lushen elad

[slim hatch]

I know

That I won out of sheer luck

Elad survived

Couldn't remember afterward, did his AI derp

[marble lance]

t4 - double snipe or bruiser with rina + 2 wind

t5 - how did this lose? not enough dmg?

hongyeon really should only be used if you need to speed contest

otherwise if you've already used praline then megan/bastet is better

[slim hatch]

rakan survive

kahli nuke did 43k damage, he survive

[slim hatch]

yeah I kind of fear that AoE def break

[marble lance]

yea you just have to use tanky wind mon

feng, xing, riley, triana, elad, etc

diana, byung

[slim hatch]

now come to think of it, the enemy have 2 bruiser and 1 support, and so do I, so the win rate might be 50:50

Oh but not in this case

Momo get stronger as the time go, I'll lose

[marble lance]

ok so you're just losing a ton to getting outruned

i dunno if you're just not farming the right things or not balancing cairos with raids and artis or what

[slim hatch]

I kind of balance them out for now

Right now I lack grind so it's raid

[slim hatch]

Set 1 t1 why did I forget that Juno there

T2 Racuni massacred by the waters, but also some misplays

T3 Galleon miss the def break on Feng and Idk why he wen crazy

T4 I let the def break slide in and Tesa died

Set 2 t3 I tried this tactic a lot but I couldn't outsustain them

[marble lance]

racuni is not a tank

how is your tiana galleon cp runed? it needs to be runed well to handle missed def breaks

i have no idea what that t4 was

tesa is not tanky enough to tank 1v3

and you have no strip against woosa manon

i dunno much that can tank omore bastet sav, would just cleave this

i dont know what set 2 t4 is, were you trying to go for some suicide/revive comp?

[slim hatch]

Idk just runed like the one in ?tianagalleon

but my runes aren't good, so it's spd/cr/acc on cp

[slim hatch]

double snipe to kill sav twice

but god damn this def is kind of good

anti cleave check, AoE def break check, strip check, spd threat check

[slim hatch]

yes, and it work just as I planned

kaki s2 and killed the team, then they revived

It was 2 days ago, I don't remember how I won the fight

I just remembered I targeted Kaki first and then the rest