Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[meager mauve]

Usually they build them depending on the passive to help her survive longer.

[vale jay]

There's no swift threat r5

Meph Kona Kahli is fine

[fiery geode]

oh and just looking through the rest

2r on the second set was a really really bad offense lol

you picked units into units that counter them

first, don't use iunu into fire dds period. very easy for iunu revenge hit to glance and not do much. using it into raoq who feeds off killing things is even worse

second, every single unit on the enemy side has multihits, and 2 of them have cc. all of them can easily kill laika

[hardy plank]

Can I ask why you’re trying to tank maxi zerath

[meager mauve]

Mostly because I figured Jeanne could provoke to prevent them from hurting too much.

[hardy plank]

What if they’re just on will/ leo misses

And they just

Strip -> maxi def break + damage -> zerath nuke

On open before ur team moves

[meager mauve]

Then I blame vio procs.

Yeah I kind of just assumed I could tank it. Dumb to assume that.

[hardy plank]

Zerath is one of the few units

I don’t think you can realistically tank if def break lands

I’ve seen people put rage will zeraths on def specifically to blow up tank offenses

[vale jay]

I feel like the Fiona maxi zerath you should just mirinae and not overcomplicate it

[rotund sail]

or haegang

[tired hollow]

[meager mauve]

@fiery geode We immediately won our first defense:

Looks like it was built well enough!

[vale jay]

Hahah

Jx defense moment

Honestly I was surprised with cdmg sigrid

I've never seen that

[fiery geode]

add dmg to the stuff people think won't do dmg

and add tankiness to the stuff people think do dmg and will be squishy

[vale jay]

Noted, when I run it next season that will be one of my builds

[meager mauve]

WGB hits #1!

[hardy plank]

[meager mauve]

My 2R I knew that Byung could 1v3, but I was curious to see if I could get close enough to maybe pull it off. I also wanted to just see if my double snipes could kill blue knife lady.

[calm falcon]

what was the plan for swift conrad

[hardy plank]

verad s3?

[meager mauve]

The plan was mostly just that I outspeed because higher base speed + higher lead. I said if they have a swift unit that outspeeds, then gg go next.

[calm falcon]

I dont follow

[meager mauve]

In retrospect, this was probably the only defense that had the possibility of having topset somewhere

But I didn't really think it was that big of a deal. I felt like this was still pretty safe considering.

[hardy plank]

so what does swift conrad do here

[rotund sail]

S2

[calm falcon]

I dont know, it just seemed like something to consider and I actually wanted to hear jaykes thoughts

[hardy plank]

attack break

[rotund sail]

Exactly

[fiery geode]

can you stop limit testing this double snipe comp and just try to win with it

why didn't you double snipe 3r

are you scared of elad? look at how much dmg your beth does and tell me if you think any monster without dmg reduction can survive it

also consider that at lower levels no one is aware bethony exists and no one will build anything on -dark

[rotund sail]

Bolverk mo long amelia is free into conrad ophilia theo, just swap teams ye

If you dont have mo long im sry

[meager mauve]

This was actually because I saw there was no def break, and the only real damage threat was Manx. That was the first thing I saw and I hyper focused on it.

I think part of my problem is that double snipe is a really foreign concept to me and I struggle identifying good comps for it because I'm inexperienced at it.

But that is not reaply an excuse. I am also trying stupid stuff "just to see" so I can fix that.

[meager mauve]

I do not have Mo Long runed, but I am not sure why this works. Can't conrad just swap after a bolverk s3 and then theo bop whoever is swapped?

I just see that happening so easily in my head that I never attempt it.

[rotund sail]

Be tuned

I have this preset and never lost into it

[meager mauve]

Does Bolverk S3 trigger nem?

I just realized I don't know that answer. Same with ML S3

[rotund sail]

No

Mo long does tho

[hardy plank]

no because its not damage

[meager mauve]

WGB 2

1R I was outsped by Clara. I forgot to switch my topset onto Dova though so I probably could have won if I had done that. Misplay on my part.

5R seemed like a good Double snipe. Bethony -> Louise Cov -> MHW and Praha has to 1v3 which doesn't seem super likely.

[rotund sail]

leaving out louise is probably better

[meager mauve]

I couldn't tell which was better. Why would you leave Louise instead of Praha?

[rotund sail]

praha does more than louise

[meager mauve]

I decided on Praha mostly just because then no one glances.

But you're probably right. Louise doesn't deal damage or heal while Praha maybe could I suppose. I don't actually know how she's usually built.

[hardy plank]

I wouldn’t lushen 1 regardless

Clara is fire sav has a passive and thebae is hp scaling

This isn’t a good def it won’t be built well

But anything resembling a proper lushen trap would eat you

[rotund sail]

just send haegang

[supple onyx]

I agree with klo

Ppl prob Leo preset 1R too

[meager mauve]

Random question I just thought about while doing Guild Rival Battle.

Would it be worth it at all to unrune my monsters and attempt to do Guild Rival battle as though it were WGB/Siege hits? Or is that not a good way to get practice/experience?

[hardy plank]

Lol no

Just auto them

They won’t ever be something cohesive

[vale jay]

If you really need more practice ask to pilot other people or practice in research tower

[supple onyx]

I agree with scarlet

[tired hollow]

pilot me

[meager mauve]

Final winrate at the end of the season:

85% is not good, but there are a few caveats. First, this is my first season in G3. Heck, this is technically my first season really taking Siege seriously.

Second, I do not cleave as often as I should. I'm not creative enough to come up with cleaves other than Julie, Lushen, double snipe, and Tiana stuff. I need to spend some more time thinking about other units that can be used for cleaving.

And third, my goal for this season was 85%. I really worked hard to try and maintain that goal, so while it's satisfying to have met it, I'm not satisfied with that performance.

I very much appreciate all of the help provided by the people in this thread. I would have had a much lower winrate without the guidance here.

[vale jay]

Gz, keep improving and working at it, you will continue to see results as you put the work in

What's next season WR goal

[tired hollow]

congrats jayke!

85 is something to be proud of, especially b/c (i assume) you started off lower, and worked to build it up as you improved 🙂

[meager mauve]

I'm not sure. This is a tough one. Ideally I'd like to set it at 90% but I don't know if that's feasible considering my inability to understand basic things about the game still.

Setting it at 90% seems like it would be really tough to do since 85% took what felt like everything I had.

[tired hollow]

you aren't the same player that you were at the start of the season, and that's more than most people (myself inluded i almost feel like) can say

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah couple of other minor things:

I've been feeling rather discouraged considering my lack of major improvement. But it isn't like I'm not improving. It's just at a rate slower than I'd like.

I've also been wondering if perhaps I should reconsider at what level I want to participate in this game. I am not sure I have the time/dedication/ability to get myself to a higher level than this.

[hardy plank]

[supple onyx]

gz wr

[supple onyx]

stop playing ur other 10 games

[fiery geode]

i bet 85 wr is much higher than the average in your guild

[rotund sail]

Aslong as youre having fun and trying your best its all that matters, gl next season

[meager mauve]

WGB hits from today

The only one I was really concerned about was 5R. I could use a few more ideas on how to handle this kind of a comp. I figured if I took damage reduction passives along with Triana I could survive long enough to kill Odin twice.

[fiery geode]

not a bad idea for 5r, but instead of 2 bruiser 1 support you should go 2 support 1 bruiser. they dont even have any sustain

[meager mauve]

1R I think was alright? Brita doesn't seem like a reliable stripper though.

3R I specifically chose to kill Chandra and Shahat so that Praline could tank Moogwang. Seemed like the right idea.

5R was super risky. I should have taken MY + Nezuko instead. Would have resulted in a much safer finish on Khmun.

Also 4R honestly I wasn't sure this was that good of a defense so a lot can work I think.

[fiery geode]

how is your mi ying runed btw, did you change him from res build

[supple onyx]

res build on mi ying is WILD

[meager mauve]

It was pre buff!

[meager mauve]

I haven't changed this. I'm going to adjust him right now because I keep forgetting in leiu of other things.

[fiery geode]

his passive dmg reduction is conditional on him having high atk. be aware of this if you're using him to tank perna, who is also likely to have very high atk...

[meager mauve]

Okay here's what I'm looking at adjusting:

I can grind up a little more to get some added speed and HP. I also get destroy. I think that seems well worth the removal of the res.

[rotund sail]

We're losing cr but gaining cd

[meager mauve]

Yeah the CD is coming from 2 runes that rolled it.

Actually 1 rune + innate from another

This rune is the main culprit:

I have another that I'll use instead that doesn't have CD, but I need to have a gem for HP%

Which I'll be farming Dhole for since it's ancient.

I'd gem HP% over the defense.

[vale jay]

What's wrong with res on mi ying

He is used as a bruiser and you don't want him getting def broken and dying

Mi ying doesn't lack damage

It's only inability effects that you want to get hit by

Nothing else

[sleek wigeon]

Mi Ying (Dark Panda Warrior)

Wikia

3. Almighty Strength (Passive)

Decreases the incoming damage by 50% and increases the damage dealt by 50% if the enemy's Attack Power is lower than yours. Removes the inability effect on yourself and another ally with the lowest HP status whenever you fall under an inability effect, and instantly uses [Calm Mind]. [Automatic Effect] (Reusable in 6 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Pos. Effects

Decrease Damage (50%)
Increase Damage (50%)
Cleanse
Cleanse

provided by SWARFARM

[rotund sail]

His passive having a condition

Makes res kinda eh

[vale jay]

If you're using him into inability you can forgo res

He is a bruiser that needs to not die

Def break makes him turn into panda stew

So ideally you have two builds

One when he is getting def broken/branded without inability effects

And one where there are inability effects or no meaningful debuffs

[supple onyx]

he's not the same as feng- going res makes u lose too much stats in tankiness and attack (required to mitigate dmg)

[vale jay]

I dunno when I have seen him he seems to do plenty with res

[meager mauve]

I've decided that I want more practice hitting teams and attempting to solve defenses. So I'm going to hit all of my guildmates' WGB defenses as though they were real WGB hits. They won't be perfect, but I think it can be a good way for me to get more experience.

Here is the first set

Went with Julie on 1, Hyanes on 2, Mi Ying Tetra Bastet on 3, Bolverk Amelia Windy on 4, Leo Shahat Lulu on 5.

Won 1, lost 2, and then won the rest.

I lost 2 because the Chandra was exactly 2 speed faster than my Hyanes team.

[hardy plank]

2 has no defense break!

Just afk bruiser it

[meager mauve]

I saw that but couldn't come up with a good bruiser combination I liked without Tetra, since Rakan could permanently provoke

[hardy plank]

Veromos?

[meager mauve]

Veromos was not an option I considered.

But much better than the alternatives I had in mind. haha

[hardy plank]

I personally would have

[meager mauve]

I do partially have a problem with considering Veromos a PvE-only unit like Spectra.

[hardy plank]

done bolv on 2 and then cleaved 3

[meager mauve]

Cleaving 3 seemed difficult to me because I'd need to get high damage while also having full will for light monkey.

[hardy plank]

I mean they don’t do anything

Moving first

So you just run full will and fast enough to outspeed a violent smicer

[fiery geode]

runing a cleave on full will is too much work for me

bruisering both 2 and 3 is fine

racuni can also has passive cleanse similar to tetra and vero

another similar solution is to use haegang + louise/riley

also i dont see a reason to use leo for 5

just use feng vela aaliyah

nothing is speed scaling there

lulu makes it dangerous for you because she can get cc'ed

leo sits there and does nothing

[meager mauve]

Leo is there because Shahat has next to no speed. He would get severely lapped otherwise.

But lulu dying I felt was a risk I could take since I was forced into taking Leo from my Shahat build. Perhaps I need to look into finding a second build for him that has higher speeds.

[fiery geode]

ok but you don't have to build shahat with no speed and you don't have to use shahat with leo

there's no reason to use leo here

think of leo as a team damage reduction monster that works against monsters that scale on speed

if you're not using him into a team that has anything that scales on speed, leo potentially is doing absolutely nothing

yes it's true that most monsters are built on some high speed so leo can always give your team some sort of stat advantage, but unless there's anything speed scaling, that advantage isn't really that big at all and isn't worth having to use an entire monster there that otherwise does not contribute much at all to the fight

you don't need to change your shahat build, its fine to just keep him to use with leo

but dont use this leo team here

[hardy plank]

[fiery geode]

if you have extra time

i would sit down and try to optimize your builds more

[supple onyx]

If u have extra time, do my hits

Thx

[fiery geode]

i did that this week already

[supple onyx]

ty

[supple onyx]

raki predicted it

[meager mauve]

Actual WGB hits:

1.) I liked this into the lineup. Carc doesn't hit shields and I feel like Alesia can tank Mi Ying for a long time. Riley provides attack buff to lessen the damage.

2.) Lost this to a swift Chiwu. I mistakenly thought (and I'm not sure why) that he only increased attack bar if he removed beneficial effects, which this lineup doesn't have. I will remember for next time that this doesn't work.

3.) Sniped Louise with Beth and Miles with Cov.

4.) Pretty simple jaara hit. Killed FY/Laika in one rotation

5.) This actually got dicier than I would have liked. Yeehaw died and then it was just rina tanking all 3. I think there's probably a better solution to this.

1.) I like Leo Shahat into wind zeni. Dots do not proc Wind Zeni's passive and Leo nerfs his damage a lot. Could have lost to RNG from Monte, but I focused him first.

2.) Eladriel survived my Kahli. I think he was probably heavy -fire. I have Bethony moving first so I need to find a second build for Covenant where he can move first for scenarios like this. I believe if Cov sniped Manon first, I could kill Elad with Bethony and this is a win.

3.) I thought this might actually be a decent idea. 100 res yeonhwa I thought could be really annoying for this comp. There's no atk buff for seara, so her bomb will do less damage. On top of that, if Yeonhwa lands her ATK debuff, she does even less damage. So I thought it was possible for Yeonhwa to survive. I also liked Racuni + Coco because I could S3 with Coco and then use Racuni to boost her to move immediately after.

I considered there could be despair Iris, but I had Racuni actually moving before Coco to cleanse that. Coco has less health than Racuni so it should guarantee Racuni cleansing Coco, which allows her to S3.

4.) THis took a while but I thought it was pretty safe. Only way carc really hits monkey + riley def broken is through pretty bad luck. Brita kept getting tractor low enough that it was hitting him instead of the other two.

5.) As soon as I sent this comp I realized that I coudl have potentially lost to Byungchul 1v3. The Tesa was built super high damage and nearly killed Lala. However, Lala came in with a lot of revenges and managed to keep everyone alive.

[rotund sail]

Be aware that Miles gets speed from your shield sets aswell, he could easily outspeed you on vio

[meager mauve]

Even with no speed lead?

[rotund sail]

ye

[meager mauve]

Wow. Alright, I'll keep that in mind for next time. Thank you.

[sleek wigeon]

Miles (Water Sky Surfer)

Wikia

3. Jet Engine (Passive)

Increases your Attack Speed by 5%, up to 100%, for each beneficial effect granted on the enemies and allies. In addition, inflicts additional damage that ignores Defense in proportion to your Attack Speed when you attack the enemy on your turn. [Automatic Effect]

Multiplier

20*{SPD}

Pos. Effects

Increase SPD (5 round(s))
Ignore DEF

provided by SWARFARM

[meager mauve]

WGB hit:

Really disappointed with how this one turned out.

I thought I had come up with some good comps but clearly I didn't.

3 I think I built ethna wrong. I have no idea how she's supposed to be built. She didn't seem to deal any damage. Is she supposed to just be a nuker?

4 was actually one of the worst possible scenarios I could imagine. Shahat vio procced 3 times in a row and stacked dots on Windy. Then Racuni moved, and I boosted Racuni to try and cleanse the dots, but Celia cut, which made Racuni lose 10% ATB because he lost his speed boost. Then, Windy was up, and he vio procced, which meant he took full damage from the dots and boosted shahat to move afterwards. It seemed winnable until the carc hit Mi Ying in stance, then procced and hit mi ying again, and then Shahat moved again.

I think if I make Racuni faster, and if I put Windy on a different build where he has higher res, this works maybe.

5 seemed I got unlucky, but I'd be willing to bet someone here will show that it was just poor team planning on my part. Here's what happened:

Berg's first move was to hit Yeonhwa, and she stunned her. Then Tesarion's first turn was 3 vio procs in a row while Yeonhwa was stunned. I managed to push back MY with Brita to prevent her from S2ing the def broken Yeonhwa, then I did Lulu S2 on Yeonhwa to heal her and cleanse the stun. The fight continued for 1-2 more turns before Berg stripped Yeonhwa, then Tesa vio procced 2 times in a row to get Yeonhwa def broken and hit her with a non-atk debuffed S2 to get her rather low. MY then moved and killed Yeonhwa with S2.

I attempted to salvage it, but when Tesarion took his next turn, he vio procced another 2 times in a row to not only land oblivion, but also land defense break on Brita, who then quickly died.

This strategy of taking on defenses that I don't have the comps to hit results in losing quite often, which is frustrating. But I'm attempting to push myself to learn the game better.

[hardy plank]

ok I’d be super cautious with these guys

1/2 are fine

3 is likely a build issue but I like a unit who can kill Nora there. Ethna is ok (I’d need to see builds) but units who can kill Nora easily like seara prevent the funny 1v3
4. This kinda sucks. Imagine this turn order -> shahat s2 on mi Ying -> carc s2-> 1 mi Ying

5 is an interesting thought but as you noted it sucked if they stunned you. I’d honestly rather exploit the strips here and go from there

[meager mauve]

Here's Ethna's build. Like I said, I have no idea how to build her for this particular team:

I was mostly trying to build her to be tanky enough to survive Nora stuff while she kills everything else.

How would I build Seara for 3? I'm too worried about Nora killing Seara, so I think I'd want something like SPD/ATK/HP or SPD/HP/ATK?

85 acc obviously.

[fiery geode]

ethna is unusable if not skilled up

where did the ethna suggestion even come from

not that it can't work, but i don't see any great reason to use her here

there are tons of units in this game where people randomly skilled them up a long time ago, or have them skilled up for other content like rta. and you can make them work in siege

but if they're not built for other purposes already there's no reason to force them anywhere for siege

[meager mauve]

No one suggested it to me for this hit. I picked her myself.

[fiery geode]

ok so just forget ethna exists

she takes a bajillion devils anyway to skill up

not worth it at all

#4 - you're cooking way too hard and trying to combine too many different things

you're like using 2 different tanks for carc? that makes no sense

do either mi ying OR windy (not both)

and then 2 water

tetra is better here than r3

also dont even do windy here, gyomei is better than windy in this situation

[meager mauve]

Even though she can be focused by Shahat? That was my main worry.

[fiery geode]

why does that matter

who would you feel better about being focused by shahat?

[meager mauve]

Mostly that Shahat could kill tetra in a couple of vio procs since she doesn't cleanse the dots right away.

That's why I took Racuni so that the cleanser couldn't be focused by Shahat at all.

[fiery geode]

ok so what kind of monster would fare better than tetra in that situation?

[meager mauve]

I suppose Namib would work, but then I don't know if I have enough damage.

[fiery geode]

yea the answer is that there isn't

you're too scared of shahat for no reason

[meager mauve]

Why wouldn't you be afraid of Shahat? I feel like the instant he vio procs and lands dots he starts dominating the fight.

[fiery geode]

i'm not saying shahat does nothing

i'm saying you're asking for too much

if you think tetra can't even stand up to him

there's no unit that exists that does better, and also doesn't die to carc at the same time

if you do gyomei + tetra at least you're splitting the dmg between carc and shahat

carc cannot hit tetra, shahat cannot hit gyomei (at least not until he gets super low)

that's better than every other situation where you end up with any 1 unit getting 3v1'ed

for 5r - your idea not that bad maybe just unlucky

you gotta start cleaving more though, you didn't use a single cleave in this set

5r you can do something like jultan teon lushen

[meager mauve]

I have a major problem attempting to be creative with cleaves. I struggle tremendously coming up with new ways to use cleave monsters.

Jultan Teon Lushen wasn't even a combination I'd ever even thought about before, much less considered using anywhere.

I'm not sure how to fix that, but it's the biggest problem I have. There's so many instances where cleaving would be better, but I look at it, I think "julie, Miri Lushen, MY Lushen, double snipe" and that's as far as my cleave knowledge goes.

[fiery geode]

you dont have to be creative

you just ask about it, someone tells you, and you remember it for next time

i'm not a good player because i'm creative. practically everything i use comes from me learning it from someone else

[tired hollow]

It’s a pretty common cleave I think

[meager mauve]

Honestly 3R I mis-piloted. I used Shahat S2 before Chandra hugged Savannah. If I just save Shahat S2 for that, we win this very easily. The others were all pretty quick and easy.

2R was rather risky I think. Savannah can probably 1v3? I'm not certain though. It was basically unruned though. Did 0 damage and had 0 health. Also no idea how to hit 4R. I wanted to Lushen but saw 5R and figured that was easier to Lushen. I can lose that very easily.

[royal summit]

Do u have wind pvc

[meager mauve]

pvc?

[royal summit]

Pure vanilla cookie

[royal summit]

Just run fire kas instead of cov and ur alot safer into sav

[meager mauve]

Oh Angela. I have mixed feelings about her in this comp.

[royal summit]

Lol she def better than tetra imo benefits of the Leo lead also

[meager mauve]

Oh Fire kass is better there. I just though about Kahli and figured it could be a loss if Savannah vio procs a couple times.

[meager mauve]

I dunno. Fire hacker can just block everyone from getting a shield

I took tetra specifically for fire hacker and felt Angela might lose a lot of functionality.

[royal summit]

Ye fire kas passive is just hella nice

[royal summit]

Ngl that's a good point lol

Wind thing cleanses also so I don't think it matters too much

[hardy plank]

No she’s not

Angela is usually not better than tetra

Honestly @meager mauve most cases you use shahat Leo I’d rather feng leo

[royal summit]

Y?

[hardy plank]

Because versus most monsters tetra is just a flat aoe cleanse

Turning def break from 2 turn to 1 turn with Leo makes her moving an aoe cleanse basically

Additionally targeted cleanse is pretty useful in the right spot

Angela has her uses versus low damage grindy matchups where the shield spam is nice to stave off destroy but versus most threats tetra is just better

[royal summit]

Hm i was only using the shahat team into byung comps tetra was just worse in that case

[hardy plank]

Yea low damage destroy fests basically means byung defenses

Where tbh any support works there bc they’re not doing anything quickly

[royal summit]

Lmao ye

[hardy plank]

I feel like versus most

Non byungchul defs

IE anything where damage is happening quickly

Angela is probably the worst of the pure supports in these kinds of shells

[royal summit]

[meager mauve]

@fiery geode I think you'd like seeing this:

Apparently this is just too good

[fiery geode]

what is this again

[meager mauve]

This was teh defense you built on my account.

The CD Sigrid and Chandra

[shut leaf]

[fiery geode]

oh ok

i mean the def is just op if you put real runes on it it will win

build more defs

[north zenith]

Jayke coping with the Lora nerf well with his new gf sigrid

[vale jay]

He don't have Lora bozo that's me

(wait.. he does)

Jx9 should I rune this defense?

[fiery geode]

the sigrid def you have now is fine

[meager mauve]

First siege started 8-2. Not the best performance for first siege. I would have enjoyed 9-1 a lot more. I'll share my 2 losses because they can be helpful I think.

I thought right before going in "I should put ChaCha on Will". But I ignored it because I thought "I have her on full revenge, so if she's hit at all, she'll heal and be able to survive. I've got her on -water too, so MY can't kill her that easily."

It turns out Despair Truffle is a thing. I have never heard of it nor seen it, but now I know it is a thing.

I redid this hit immediately after with ChaCha on Will and everything went perfectly fine. Lesson learned, just play optimally, don't take shortcuts.

This was the second loss. I thought if I killed both heals then Parjanya wouldn't be able to 1v3. I was completely wrong. Not only did he 1v3, but I didn't even kill him once to get the passive off. Lesson learned, you can't double snipe Parjanya.

Other than that, the only other questionable hit that I ended up winning (but it was close) was this one:

I thought Fire hacker wouldn't deal much damage and wouldn't be that much of a threat. I ended up putting FY into a 1v2 against nana and Byung and thankfully he clutched up with some vio procs and Def breaks.

I really don't know how Fire Hacker is typically built, so I was hoping some more experienced players could explain that to me so that I know what to expect next time. Also never taking this comp into Fire hacker again. Too dangerous.

[finite terrace]

parjamesan def scares me from double sniping. also since he will hit praline last. usually if i double snipe i try not to leave a water monster last who will start hitting the snipers first

[fiery geode]

do you mean put imesety and copper on will?

[fiery geode]

you should still be able to double snipe parjanya, you just need your booster to be the one tanking whatever monster is left. not your dds

so use colleen, or bastet + some wind sniper like sonia, etc

[fiery geode]

did you ever fix your feng vela aaliyah builds

[meager mauve]

No, I mean Chacha.

[meager mauve]

I actually forgot completely that I needed to do this. I've been focused on grinding runes nonstop and building my clara vigor deborah defense that I haven't done that yet.

I'll start this evening.

[tired hollow]

Can i get feedback on mine actually

Wasn’t sure how to build vela

[vale jay]

i've tried this but pajama is too strong

he just kills everyone

[hardy plank]

Why are you mispelling parmesan

[fiery geode]

wait really

i guess ive never seen pajama in siege

i would imagine something like sonia would be pretty good at not getting killed

[vale jay]

maybe sonia specifically works a bit better because of her passive

but parmesan has a tendency to just get a million stacks of thunderer and never let you take a turn

[meager mauve]

Couple of questions on rebuilding FY.

First, is it more important that I have him on Destroy or Will?

My other questions are kind of predicated on that one.

[hardy plank]

It depends

But there aren’t many defenses which necessitate destroy

[supple onyx]

if enemy teams lacks sustain, u can go will

if enemy team has some sort of sustain and enemy has hp scaling on heal/dmg, go dest (assuming they cant destroy u t1)

for a lot of moore defs, i go will and

[meager mauve]

Looks like it's time for me to start building some DECKS

Okay, then second question for Destroy FY specifically:

I'm not sure what to gem. I think I gem SPD, but I don't know if I want to.

Do I regem SPD, do I gem Acc, or do I try something like ATK

Or do I even attempt legend gemming HP?

[supple onyx]

u can leave as is tbh...

ull farm a better one soon

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

Only 2 questions for this set.
1R: I couldn't come up with a good cleave into this. Was I right to just attempt a bruiser with cleanse? Only targeting change is branding from Rahul.

5R: Is Savannah a good choice for this? I figured he has strip + def break + with Riley she gets ATK buff to help def break the enemy team. Is there a better choice for a DD instead of Savannah?

2 questions with this set:

3R: Leo Feng for fast units, but I was using Tetra already on 1R. Angela seemed alright for this. Would Racuni have been a better choice?

4R: I completely forgot about Angela cleanse, but it worked out okay in the end because she never got a turn. This is unsafe though, right?

[vale jay]

I would recommend rina double wind (example; Logan Triana) for 4R for this defense for the future. You don't want to lose to some random idiot putting swift vigor (I've lost to this before)

[hardy plank]

Yea ur fine id use a wind bruiser though personally

[hardy plank]

Ethna

[hardy plank]

Yea that’s fine

[hardy plank]

Bolverk!

[meager mauve]

I actually considered it for this, but I was worried that Moogwang destroy + strip could cause a lot of issues.

But I suppose if you focus Moogwang first you could probably turn out okay.

[meager mauve]

I figured swift vigor wouldn't be on topset because Tiana is on topset 100% of the time. And at that point it's basically who has the faster swift set, which I don't think they'd do. I figured this was safe.

[royal summit]

High atk Dominic but ngl any wind dmg dealer works that def sucks 😂

[royal summit]

Ye there's always a swift Chandra that could screw u over

Plus no def break so it's food

[royal summit]

Ye racuni would be better

[royal summit]

Ngl u can get away with it but as someone else mentioned this is just bolverk food

[sleek wigeon]

Namib (Wind Mummy)

Wikia

1. Touch of Corruption

Attacks the enemy 2 times with each attack having a 20% chance to inflict Continuous Damage for 1 turn. This damage of this attack will increase according to your MAX HP.

Levels

Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

0.5*{ATK} + 0.08*{MAX HP} x2

2. Body Roll

Slams the body with the enemy at the cost of 10% of your current HP, dealing 20% of your MAX HP to the enemy as damage. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

0.2*{MAX HP} (Fixed)

3. Poisoned Body(Passive)

Becomes immune to Continuous Damage. When being attacked, the attackers will suffer Continuous Damage for 1 turn. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[tired hollow]

I wonder if namib Lexy works

[prime rose]

poking for visibility so I can follow my buddy jayke

[fiery geode]

fyi you can follow posts without posting

[prime rose]

ooo that is helpful, thanks!

[meager mauve]

I am not starting off real great in Siege this season. Here's the 2 hits I lost:

This one is simple. Just forgot will on Julie. Free hit otherwise.

This one I think was rather unlucky. The perfect chain of events happened that made this impossible. First, Ashour resisted the Dhomie cooldown increase. Second, he procced out of freeze and cleansed Dark Bayek, who then stunned Hyanes, preventing her from increasing stun duration on Taranys. Taranys procced and stunned Verad.

After that, I thought I could still salvage it, as I managed to get Dhomie S3 off again and no one resisted, but Taranys stunned Verad 2 more times in a row to prevent him from CC'ing them.

Finally, right when I thought I could still pull it off, Dark Bayek stunned Verad for the final time before Taranys killed him. From there it was just a loss.

I think the way I fix this is I need to get Seal on Hyanes. If I can do that, then I think it makes the entire comp much safer.

[calm falcon]

youre running all swift now right?

[meager mauve]

No. Hyanes is on Despair.

[calm falcon]

and no seal?

[meager mauve]

No seal. I didn't have any seal runes previously. I've crafted a ton from the Demon Slayer collab and have a few now.

[calm falcon]

seal will definitely help prevent things like this yea

you got unlucky

[meager mauve]

Also my first set of WGB hits from today:

3R I thought a little bit about, then I realized that with no speed lead, I can race Bastet SUPER easy with Hraesvelg. I still had to be careful afterwards, but I sniped Odin which made this pretty safe.

5R Honestly if I had a Sonia, Rigna, Tirsa, Claire, I would have easily won this one. I did the best I could to cleave it as I didn't think I could ever bruiser since Raoq + Iris can make Seara delete something. Even without attack buff, there's still a risk. Lushen didn't kill anything and I think if I had piloted better by attempting to kill iris rather than attempting to kill Raoq, I could have won this.

[royal summit]

you ca do rigna with lora it will work here

then just mihyang lead

or wait i just read u dont have rigna 💀

u can race with julie comp only threat would be a swift iris

[rotund sail]

Not sure if you have cayde but cayde double fire beats R5

[meager mauve]

Not skilled enough to pull Cayde 😦

[hardy plank]

Julie 5

4 you can do that. I like khmun Kona Shren but this also works
3 you can do this or hyanes with swift runes

You really should have hyanesed something

[tired hollow]

time to make a julie trapped seara iris raoq

doesn't swift iris race equal to bernie?

and then she s2's something and you lose

or swift raoq

is fairly close as well

[hardy plank]

At -1

Sorry -2

3 after tiebreaker

None of the other ones necessitate real racing so you can just topset bird

[meager mauve]

WGB 2

2R I thought about going Mi Ying Riley Racuni but figured Hyanes was probably a safer bet. Turns out Valantis is NOT a good Hyanes candidate. Noted for next time.

3R I figured that topset would be on Bastet, not on Orion, so I went for it racing only at +1. I was right. Orion was swift, but not topset, so I won it.

[vale jay]

Man what the fuck

Dias +2

3R blows, rakan can just solo you too

When you see a mono element def with only single target defense breaks you should immediately think about just tanking it sending +2

Orion is no less likely to have topset than bastet. I would argue for noobs they'll probably put it on Orion because it's attached to a speed lead, which most people think means swift is better there

Just GDK or garo draco Federica 3R, that's what the cool kids all do

Or yeah use your mi ying here. Its free too

Mi ying Angela/Riley Mei hou wang clears quickly and safely

Mi ying is even better because of the stuns

And arta is very very very frequently ran on despair

[meager mauve]

On the other hand, you could say noobs might just throw topset on Bastet because they built Odin mega yolo and want him to snipe something instantly.

[vale jay]

You know you can check replay too right

[meager mauve]

No one hit this base yet. It was untouched.

Otherwise yes, I would have just scouted for sure.

[meager mauve]

Yeah I will admit this was bad. I will get to work runing GDK this evening. I don't currently have it runed.

[meager mauve]

Only question is on 3R. Was Brita a good choice or was there a better option?

3R here Cami unfortunately managed to kill Cov and Beth before they could S3 again. I was 1 turn away on both of them. :/

[fiery geode]

im pretty sure we talked about this a lot

and its even mentioned in the basic ?doublesnipe command

your booster cant be the element that is strong against whichever monster you leave for last

your booster has to tank the remaining monster, or at least tank it in front of 1 of your 2 dds

you have to use hongyeon or colleen

or bastet or megan but with a wind dd

[meager mauve]

Oh I haven't even thought about Colleen as a booster. I was thinking only Kahli, but I don't like using Kahli to tank Cami. Colleen is a better idea.

[fiery geode]

honestly kahli is fine too

just because she has the 2 turn invulnerability

[hardy plank]

Don’t Leo Bella

Not like that at least

[fiery geode]

brita is probably fine but its weird that you even have her runed

if you have brita on a def and she's taking up good runes then it makes sense

otherwise, just derune her

you already have massive issues with where your good runes are

any water monster can work there, for example just use your chandra

[meager mauve]

I'm mainly taking Brita in places where I feel like everything she offers is helpful. For example in this instance, I felt her damage reduction would help her survive random carc hits from weird ai changes, smicer bombs (I think her passive is applied to those?) and the atb pushback and def break help her to kill carc pretty quickly without him hitting Kunite.

I am a little confused as to why she's a monster that shouldn't be runed. She seems to have a kit that is useful in a lot of scenarios since she can both strip and def break on her own. She can take the spot of 2 monsters.

[hardy plank]

So uh

You know carc counters Kunite right

Like explicitly checks him

[meager mauve]

Yes, but I couldn't think of a better fire monster to tank carc + brita.

[hardy plank]

Btw

Read euldong

[sleek wigeon]

Euldong (Light Dokkaebi Lord)

Wikia

3. Triumph Over Evil (Passive)

Increases the Critical Damage by 100% when an ally attacks the enemy and decreases the damage taken by 10% for every beneficial effect granted on the ally when an ally is attacked by the enemy. This effect doesn't stack with other Critical Damage increase and damage reduction effects. [Automatic Effect]

Pos. Effects

Increase Critical Damage (100%)
Decrease Damage (10%)

provided by SWARFARM

[fiery geode]

wait is euldong a dontsnipe? it applies to himself right?

ive never even seen euldong before

[meager mauve]

So I read it, and I thought the same thing. I didn't think it applied to him, just to his allies.

Kind of like a Molly type deal.

The wording is confusing.

[fiery geode]

wait how so? is carc bypassing kunite dmg reduction? i thought it only ignored dmg reduction from buffs

[hardy plank]

Kunite damage reduction resets ever turn

IE chilling -> carc

Chilling racks up the dr during his turn but the moment it ends it goes away

So single hit units aren’t affected by kunites passive whatsoever

Think like this

Chilling s1
0->14->30% dr (ends)
Proc, s1 again
0->14->30% dr
Carc s1
0% dr

[fiery geode]

all gargoyle stone form gives them 30% damage reduction

separate from kunite's passive

[hardy plank]

Yes… and carc will still just chew through you with a def break

Why do you think people ran carc vritra x

Bc while Kunite is attractive versus vritra carcano will just kill him

[fiery geode]

ideally i would always snipe this, there's not much i would personally try to tank carc with so yea i agree with you there

but as far as trying to bruiser it goes

it's at least something and im not sure what is better

in the past we've used malite to tank carc and its not any better than kunite here

[hardy plank]

I don’t think you ever bother with bruiser the only unit with a protective passive is brita and this def doesn’t race well

[fiery geode]

i think we have the same feelings but just the way you said carc counters kunite, i mean if you're saying that you may as well be saying carc counters all t2

[hardy plank]

I mean he kinda does in most shells I’ve thrown him with

Where you’re just better off figuring out a cleave instead of playing dice against carcano Ahmed

/iris vritra

[vale jay]

Doesn't he?

Turn 2ing Carcano with the current standard stuff is kinda not feasible I think right

I honestly see Carcano and I instantly think I do not want to bruiser haha

I honestly wonder how people dealt with Carcano before he was nerfed, the unit still feels super oppressive to me to this day

[tired hollow]

Do we like the obese demon slayer guy to bruiser him?

I’m not sure how easy it is to force carc to hit him

[vale jay]

Use names dude I have no idea what you're talking about

[tired hollow]

The free guy

Idr his name xd

5* windy

[vale jay]

No

I like windy more for tanking Carcano still in most scenarios

But I don't like tanking Carcano

[hardy plank]

The thing with carcano is with any amount of setup it’s not too hard for him to just kill you

[vale jay]

The turn cycling windy provides is just too good

[hardy plank]

You ever see a cd carc whaling on a windy?

Even when you can’t defense break something carcano hits like a truck

[vale jay]

Agreed. Its too much.

[tired hollow]

Ye was wondering if higher bases made it safe enough

[meager mauve]

10-0 in Siege on Thursday. I have a couple questions about some hits.

I've generally done nana/byung comps as FY/Aayaya/vela food, but Ashour is one I haven't done. I feel like this is fine though. Is Ashour a bit too risky to send Feng into? This felt fine but often times I can't tell if it's because it's built poorly or because it's actually okay.

This one I won on a fluke. I mistakenly thought Platy and Carc were going to be the same.

Is there a way for this comp to work with Platy as the lead instead of Carc? I feel like there isn't.

Will can be stripped, and even on my topset Teon will not move before the entire defense does (if they are tuned properly)

And since this comp doesn't work, I'd be curious to know how running a light tank such as Alesia would be here. Nothing would target Julie still, but instead of having Teon as the tank, Alesia can take it all.

As far as WGB goes, only did one set of 5 so far. Will do the other set later. 5-0 thus far and I have 2 questions:

I realized too late that this was ridiculously unsafe. Def break from Zen + Perna vio on Racuni and I lose. But I was having trouble figuring out good cleaves into this.

Am I wrong in thinking if I just kill Perna I win?

Second question is how often should I expect swift nora here? There was Zen in this set, Eshir, Ophilia in an Odin comp, and Cichlid. I thought Nora was never going to be on Swift.

[hardy plank]

Bolverk lol

[hardy plank]

Can you show the full set

You can’t help wgb in a vacuum you need all 5 defs

[vale jay]

Praline is my recommendation for this defense generally if we are trying to keep things simple

This defense is a bit tricky and kind of demands premiums otherwise

[meager mauve]

Sure. Good point. Here you go:

[hardy plank]

[north zenith]

woah using 5* into a 4* defense is bm

[meager mauve]

It's called efficiency

[meager mauve]

I haven't posted Siege hits in a bit. I've managed to reach a mileston. 3rd 10-0 in a row. First time that's happened.

However, we go against guilds that are pretty bad. And in the case of pulling an okay guild, we got pulled into a 1v1 immediately against the other guild that was pure garbo.

So it's not super significant, but still that's the expected result against crappy guilds, and I'm sticking to it. Rather proud of that.

[autumn crystal]

op gz

any iffy hits?

[vale jay]

Bro stop talking man shut the fuck up you're doing great stop discounting it

In all seriousness that's good, keep it up and maybe we can convince jx...

Go 10-0 every siege for rest of season

[meager mauve]

Only one that I didn't know for sure.

[vale jay]

Leek

[meager mauve]

Fy/Aaliyah/Vela into Nana Byung Jager

It felt like the Jager was basically unruned.

But I don't know how good jager can get.

And if that was just a lucky hit because the Jager was bad.

[vale jay]

Good enough

[meager mauve]

WGB set 1

This set was really hard for me for some reason.

1.) I thought Julie would be fine here but Moogwang was built on Nem, so he S2'ed, healed everyone to full, and I was unable to kill anything after that.

4.) Really I had no idea how to hit this because Mi Ying has a self + other monster cleanse. I did this and ended up losing because Mi Ying def broke Tetra, then Taranys managed to vio proc 3 times in a row to kill her.

5.) As a note for 5R, I killed in the order of Manon -> Seara but I couldn't tell if that was better or if I should have done Manon -> Nora.

[rotund sail]

you can just mihyang adriana sonia(rigna is even better) the 1st one and double snipe zeratu

for the ashour def you can also just send feng aaliyah vela because theres no strip besides ashour s2

[meager mauve]

No sonia or rigna for 1. :/

As far as the ashour one, I thought sending Feng into Ashour was a bad idea? Or can Ashour generally not kill FY?

[rotund sail]

just put will on him and youre fine

i wouldnt really recommend throwing julie into revive tho

that can always get funny

[meager mauve]

Reposting because I realized there was a comp in there that my guild specifically asked me not to share:

[rotund sail]

fair, but still

theres barely any strip

abuse it

[meager mauve]

Yes you make a great point. Thanks. I'll remember that for next time.

[rotund sail]

mihyang adriana snipe should work into r1 tho

doesnt need rigna or sonia

they are just common in the +1

[meager mauve]

Set #2 was uh.... also interesting

2.) I forgot that if I use Kahli as a booster she gives Speed and ATK buff, not CR and ATK buff. That was a stupid mistake and Bethony did not end up killing Eladriel. This is a result of me not cleaving often enough to remember/think of that. I will not make that mistake next time.

3.) Thinking deeper about it, this was actually a really bad comp to take into this. Not only are all 3 able to self-cleanse def break, but 2 of them give themselves immunity. Terrible idea. Will not do this again.

[fluid kite]

Can I hop in and ask what's the general idea of team 3? Cause Tiana galleon is usually an aoe cleave kinda thing and jaara is single target?

I might be knowledge gapped here

[meager mauve]

This is a bad idea in this particular round.

[meager mauve]

Generally this comp is built to kill something that is tough to snipe because of the passive. A good example is Nana Byung Julianne.

Jaara also takes 2 turns. T1 the S2 snipes something

And then you get another turn because something died to S2

So then you generally S1 something afterwards and it's either stunned or dead, or it is def broken and branded so that Tiana and galleon can clean it up afterwards.

It works pretty well in the right places, but this was a terrible place to use it.

[autumn crystal]

First def would be a candidate for it though

Or last

[fluid kite]

Icic

Ty for explaining jayke

[meager mauve]

Nah, last doesn't work because if you don't def break Taranys you just lose.

I've done that before and learned that you just don't do it into Taranys.

[autumn crystal]

Didn’t you say luck is a skill?

[meager mauve]

I never said I was any good at it

[autumn crystal]

[meager mauve]

First comp absolutely could be a good candidate. I just don't have any idea what I'd send on 3R to be honest.

This is where our more experienced and far better players could provide me with some ideas.

[drowsy quiver]

Why did 3 fail? Wouldn’t it be easy to kill Rakan and then manon?

[meager mauve]

3 was doomed to fail no matter who I hit. That's why this is a bad comp into this.

If I kill FY, Rakan kills everything like he did.

[fluid kite]

Luck check if Manon passive roght?

[meager mauve]

If I kill Rakan, FY/Manon cleanse def break and kill everything

If I kill Manon, Rakan kills everything

[meager mauve]

Jaara doesn't activate passives.

[fluid kite]

Oh

[drowsy quiver]

Don’t you get to kill 2 though?

[fluid kite]

What's the command for unit abilities i should prolly read it

Or stop talking cause idk what I'm doing

[meager mauve]

Nah. No way I'm killing FY/Manon with just a single S1 from Jaara. They're usually built on too high of health.

[meager mauve]

/skills

[drowsy quiver]

Oh yeah true mb. only enough damage to kill 1

[meager mauve]

Yeah 3 is just a terrible comp to send in there and if I had thought about it harder than I did I could have easily fixed it and run something with Racuni

I dunno though. Bruisering that is hard because Manon also does a billion damage

Racuni could die

These were just tough sets really.

[tiny orchid]

what happened in round 3 exactly? i guess you used s2 jaara on rakan but manon cut in?

[meager mauve]

I used S2 jaara on Manon because I thought Rakan would be relatively squishy so I could S1 him instead. Also figured he would not be on any res since he typically has his own cleanse + Will so I could maybe get a good chance for a stun.

[rotund sail]

Res doesnt matter

[meager mauve]

Rakan was built pretty tanky though. Maybe down to 1/2 health? No stun either.

[rotund sail]

you have max acc on galleon

[meager mauve]

I meant for stun from Jaara.

Don't have max acc on jaara.

[vale jay]

1R is really bad, you should understand by now that Julie is not for tanky comps like this

[vale jay]

I mean 3R is very simple

Rina windy Racuni for instance is good

Galleon Tiana Jaara should not be used in cases where you need to kill multiple units in order to win

Hint, you do here

Because if you kill Manon and don't kill rakan, well you can just lose to rakan

He just s2 -> s3 and Feng heals him and you lose

[meager mauve]

Yeah. See my analysis above for my discoveries with that.

[hardy plank]

Where is the hyanes deployment

[meager mauve]

Only one Hyanes could have worked on is possibly R1.

[rotund sail]

I'd send hyanes into anything there but r4

[fiery geode]

these teams are messed up too why are you using mihyang praline together thats dumb

[meager mauve]

Mostly to tank Tesa. Mihyang was to double snipe taranys

[fiery geode]

r2 should have been cov praline beth no reason to use kahli

not safe

[meager mauve]

Brita doesn't focus Praline

I was trying to follow the idea of "the booster should be the one to tank the final monster"

[fiery geode]

kahli isnt a booster that can tank brita anyway

can use hongyeon or colleen then

i was thinking you were trying to snipe brita

double sniping taranys is not safe because taranys can be on nem

you can double snipe odin because everyone is building odin vio/will

[hardy plank]

Hyanes beats I think all but 3/4

[fiery geode]

and also i think tesa praha can 2v3 pretty easily too

[rotund sail]

nem doesnt trigger tho if you oneshot

[meager mauve]

I feel like it could easily lose to 5 because Swift Nora. I'm not running topset at all so if they put Nora on a decent set I can lose.

[fiery geode]

oh good point i'm too used to lushening taranys

[rotund sail]

[hardy plank]

The nemesis on death interaction is so wonky

If lushens first card kills they get nemesis

But if rigna oneshots they don’t

[cursive basalt]

go look into beginners guide

[rotund sail]

?

[meager mauve]

Little bit of a different question. I'm starting to put more time and effort into Arena, and I'd like some help understanding how to hit a few comps.

I see this exact comp probably 4-5 times per refresh. And I have no idea how to hit this safely.

I've heard of people using Leah but I don't like Leah comps because they feel like they just depend heavily on Gemini/Galleon to land Def breaks. Is there a better comp I can use into this?

I've attempted using stuff like Psamathe/Tiana/Galleon/Jaara, but Vanessa makes it impossible to win because whatever you kill with Jaara just comes back, and killing Vanessa is a good thing for this comp.

[rotund sail]

this defense was made to counter leah

because every unit can easily survive leah

you should be able to use a proper tiana off into that tho

[meager mauve]

What are the typical Tiana +1's that are used?

I've heard of Kaki but I don't know if that works into this.

[rotund sail]

Zaiross is good

Alicia aswell

[meager mauve]

Ah Zaiross. I forgot about that guy.

Alicia I haven't heard of before. That's a good suggestion.

I'll go through and get those two runed, because no joke, this exact comp is all over C2-C3

If I can just eat this defense I'll climb much faster.

Thanks. 😄

[autumn crystal]

c2/c3 versions of this comp should be leah food tbh

[meager mauve]

My leah isn't runed very well. Besides I have Zaiross so that's easier and safer anyway.

[calm falcon]

I used leah into this up to g1 tbf but

runegapping is never a good solution

[meager mauve]

Leek leah 👀

[calm falcon]

its changed a bit with recent addition of adriana

give me a sec

this is what I currently run

basically just my julie set on s2 spd

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... Okay. I'll see if I can make something out of that. Because I have seen a couple comps that Leah could help beat.

Thanks. 😄

[calm falcon]

you have adriana right

I forgot

[meager mauve]

Yeah. Picked her from the nat 5 stuff

[calm falcon]

ok yea should be a good offense for you then

this is the one I currently use

[meager mauve]

OH DARK TANJIRO

[calm falcon]

yep

[meager mauve]

Oh that's a good one actually.

[calm falcon]

deploy him unless you have truffle

[meager mauve]

I'll probably swap inosuke for Psamathe

But I have that comp. That's a good idea.

[rotund sail]

no

[calm falcon]

wheres your strip NERD

[rotund sail]

for chiwu

[calm falcon]

only inosuke/chiwu work

[meager mauve]

No one has will at this level

[calm falcon]

[rotund sail]

[meager mauve]

Legit I've seen 1 monster on Will my past 30 wings

Not even joking. XD

[calm falcon]

even then...

[meager mauve]

I think I have chiwu so I have to do it like that then. No inosuke

[calm falcon]

chiwu is just as good if not better

[meager mauve]

wait wait so is the turn order Adriana -> Chiwu -> Tanjiro -> Leah?

And wouldn't that lose to anything on Nem?

[calm falcon]

yeah

[calm falcon]

dont deal too much dmg on chiwu and tanjiro

and be tuned and you should be fine a lot of times

• adriana gives immunity, protects against a bit of nem stuff already

[hollow basin]

like Klo said I would hit this with Tiana Galleon

I think better than Galleon though would be like DTanjiro or Truffle but if you have a proper atb reducer like CheongPung or some other form of consistent protection I think Galleon is safe

I would say though you probably play Arena at a higher level than me; Tiana Galleon can hit this if your Tiana is fast, but be wary if you do not have a proper speed lead, it is very easy to lose the race to Juno

I have seen a lot of despair Junos outspeed my Tiana (+210), though it's not often; most times people just run it as tank but be wary that Juno is winning the race likely without a speed lead like Nepthys to support Tiana

[meager mauve]

Yeah tuning is pretty crucial, but usually I'm finding most Junos are on 239 tick and I have the team on 286 tick so it's generally fine.

[hollow basin]

You should be fine then if you see most people running fat Junos

[meager mauve]

Oh I also don't run my Tiana on topset. I have her on a +180 damage set. Probably need to change that once I get to higher ranks.

[hollow basin]

I think that's a good idea +180 can get outsped by even some bruisers ngl

Back when I was +200 I would see some entire teams faster than me

granted I think everything I said is all very uncommon but it is very real

should be safe for you to hit

[meager mauve]

The good news is that the majority of stuff that I'm hitting right now in C1-C3 is garbage anyway.

[fiery geode]

this is a rune quality check

there are many offenses that can work pretty well into it

there are no offenses that can work with much weaker runes

as mentioned, leah is good if you outrune the def

i used to use a lot of pos tiana galleon cp against it

but again, you need good runes. none of this shitty 239 tick swift unit stuff

leo christina is viable

the lamiella amber comp is really good too

knowing you, you're struggling and going to keep struggling because you haven't taken the time to optimize your teams

pick 1 team and just optimize it

don't look for additional solutions in terms of different teams

[meager mauve]

By this I'm assuming you mean "pick one team for to hit this particular defense" and not "pick one arena offense team period"

Because I don't really see how optimizing my Lushen will make it so I can suddenly hit comps that aren't Lushenable.

[autumn crystal]

You’re better off with like 2 offense comps on good runes than 5 on mediocre runes

[fiery geode]

no i mean if you are working on arena

pick one arena offense team period

and optimize it

start with that before moving on

[tired hollow]

@fiery geode what do u think of 33 Lora snipes as the first ao, and Tiana as the second for @meager mauve

[rotund sail]

people use lora rigna rigna 33 lead for a while

[fiery geode]

no rigna and no runes

[rotund sail]

[drifting latch]

Could you please tell me where I can find a table or chart with defenders and attackers, or team compositions like attackers, healers, bruisers?

[vale jay]

Open your own thread - check #1048719420870107227

[tired hollow]

Ye exactly

Oh

Whoops

Aren’t Jaykes runes good enough to g2 at least? Idk if jayke has Sonia either though

[vale jay]

He has no speed scaling snipes

[meager mauve]

Debateable considering my teams, as jx9 said, are not optimized well.

[tired hollow]

No Leah either? Maybe 33 Lora truffle Leah would work

Not many people are trapping Leah anymore

Bailey as well

[meager mauve]

At higher end Arena maybe, but I'm seeing all sorts of Leah trap builds like the one I showed earlier.

Not joking when I say that exact comp is 5/10 of the defenses on the lists at C1-C3

[tired hollow]

If you have Bailey you might have less of a damage issue

[tired hollow]

That exact comp, like other people said, is Tiana food which doesn’t really eat any fast runes

[meager mauve]

No Bailey

[tired hollow]

My opinion is a lil different from jx, but I’d rune 2 teams- one for Tiana and one for Lora? And then try and optimize those two because they won’t have too many conflicting runes- the damage dealers might fight a little bit but you can rune them on different sets to reduce contention. If you can get a Tiana to +195 or so, and tune the comp to her I find that most despair Junos (and even Nora’s) don’t really outspeed too often even in g3

[meager mauve]

I think jx9's thinking is just specifically tailored to me.

I have an issue of spreading myself too thin and not attempting to make teams as good as possible before building the next one.

[tired hollow]

Because each rush is more valuable, you might want to full rerune for rush now, since it’s only once every 2 weeks if you don’t have the depth? You can save, break everything, save ur teams to presets in friend thingies, and then reload ur runes for siege stuff later

2 teams is double the rune spreading, but also double the coverage. You won’t find much to no lead Tiana in g3, but in c1-g1 you’ll find she’s still quite nice. I’m also mostly saying it from my pov as someone without lamiella/tr1x/amber, so I just run no lead tiana and 33 kabilla, which I feel gives me decent coverage

If you think it’d be helpful, I can list some of my Tiana hits when I next log on which might not be as intuitive. Main thing I see to hit is 33 Juno, because despair Juno has to outspeed, strip, and stun which is 3 checks

[autumn crystal]

What rank are you pushing for jayke?

[vale jay]

He wants g1 arena

I dunno I feel like you can kinda be somewhat carried by ad no

You have Lora

I'm not an arena scientist

But I know like klo just set Lora and Feng Leo'd

On furyn's account

If I'm not mistaken

@rotund sail

[rotund sail]

that was a while ago ngl, not sure if its still doable tho

but can be an angle aswell

[vale jay]

Do you remember what the ad you ran was

I feel like there's Leo Aya angles that are faster too that you can do

Jx will probably come through and roast me but I feel like if you're punching up there's nothing wrong with it

[rotund sail]

Nessa Lora Juno asima

[vale jay]

[autumn crystal]

We’re swift-limited here right? Can’t really take even races at the level we want to finish?

[vale jay]

His swift is AWFUL

Like +208 imesety topset bad

Its not playable

That's why I'm saying Leo Aya

But I dunno

If Jayke even has Aya

I know Jayke has Feng

[autumn crystal]

Christina? There’s a bunch of leo Christina victims up into g1/g2 every week on global (on old arena at least)

[vale jay]

@meager mauve

[meager mauve]

No Aya

Christina uhhhhh

I do indeed have Christina

At least that's what the mon thing says let me make sure it wasn't fed before I received the account....

Phew. Not fed. We have it.

[meager mauve]

I'LL say what I want thank you!

(It is G1 Arena)

[autumn crystal]

Nice thing about Leo Christina is it doesn’t compete for runes

[meager mauve]

Yeah this is the confusing part. What shoudl I realistically be looking at racing?

Because people don't put topset on their AD right?

[autumn crystal]

Don’t race anything

[meager mauve]

No I mean, what are the speeds I should expect

[vale jay]

FARM GIANTS NERD

(and don't race)

[autumn crystal]

Plenty of people are running topset on def in guardian ranks

[meager mauve]

I WILL FARM GIANTS IN A MINUTE. I AM BONKING A CERBERUS DRAGON.

[vale jay]

Everyone and their slow ass crusty grandma is gonna outspeed you

[meager mauve]

Wait so are they racing on their 2nd set then?

This is one thing I don't understand. If I put topset on a mon, I can't have it on defense.

And if I put 2nd set on a mon, I'm racing against topsets

[hardy plank]

Yep

[autumn crystal]

If you’re like +190 or higher on Tiana on will you can risk it into 33 juno/nora

Lots of current ao comps aren’t hard racing

[meager mauve]

which of my sentences is "yepped" XD

But you can't race on 2nd set if you're going against other people's topsets unless your sets are absolutely insane right?

It's so incongruent I don't get it.

[hardy plank]

All of it

[autumn crystal]

Haegang doesn’t need t1

[hardy plank]

That’s why you race at advantage

[vale jay]

I don't believe in putting topset on defense unless you are giga pushing or stacked honestly

[hardy plank]

And if you can’t you t2

[vale jay]

Just me or what

[autumn crystal]

Same

(Don’t race me my triton is +250 nemnemwill I swear)

[hardy plank]

wtf curse runes

[meager mauve]

There's so much about this idea that's really warping my brain. Let me see if I can get this down properly.

So topset on defense generally isn't the way to go unless you have great 2nd sets.

But if you run 2nd on defense, you're just going to lose anyway right, because it's 2nd set

So the only way you win is if they take crappy stuff into you anyway, at which point does it really matter if you're on 2nd set or not because they're taking stuff into you that would lose the race regardless?

I mean Siege defense makes sense, you're just trying to make RNG the bane of the offense's existence in most instances. But AD the theorycrafting doesn't add up to me.

How am I supposed to have a scary AD but also have a strong AO without giving up one or the other?

Or am I just overthinking this and really it's just topset not on AD?

[vale jay]

The honest answer is if you want strong ad and don't want to race you play lami/hae

[meager mauve]

Oh also christina isn't skilled so I don't think she'd be great on AD

[calm falcon]

the real answer is just rush

and figure out by that

[meager mauve]

Simi earning his mini helper role

[calm falcon]

its true

did you def do well

nice

did it not

not nice

[vale jay]

AO not ad

Good news Jayke her skillups are 4* and there's an hoh event

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah I missed that part.

[meager mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/sweats-gif-25346666

[calm falcon]

what happened to the leah idea

[meager mauve]

I may or may not have used the extra cannon girls on Abigail

[vale jay]

🐢

Its fine hoh it

[sleek wigeon]

Leah (Light Blade Dancer)

Wikia

1. Reverse Turn

Attacks the enemy and decreases the Attack Bar by 30% with a 50% chance.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

2. Crescent Blade

Attacks all enemies 2 times to decrease their Attack Speed for 2 turns with a 50% chance each. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +15%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

2.0*{ATK} x2

3. Turn Out (Passive)

The damage increases up to 200% as your Attack Speed is faster than the enemy's Attack Speed. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[meager mauve]

See how you need speed

[calm falcon]

I got g1 with +199 kahli

[meager mauve]

I have less speed than you homie

[meager mauve]

yeah but what dat ad do

[calm falcon]

other people are also slow

[vale jay]

We try it???

[calm falcon]

it was just nessa triton juno triana or smth

[vale jay]

We have Adriana too chat

[calm falcon]

imo yes

[meager mauve]

Okay we are all being too dumb. I need to just pick 2 offenses and rune up 1 at a time to be super efficient.

[vale jay]

That's what I'm saying

Go Leah and Leo Christina

[meager mauve]

Do those hit the byung/cami/juno/vanessa defenses well enough?

Otherwise I'd want Tiana Zaiross instead

[calm falcon]

they runegap them

[meager mauve]

Also Lushen is good right

[hollow basin]

I think if you do what Scarlet says you can rune up those two defenses simultaneously without any decrease in quality with the other because they don't share runes

[meager mauve]

Why not lushen

[vale jay]

Yeah you always run Lushen

You said two moron

You want three?!?!

Go 3!!!!

[meager mauve]

But I need to optimize Lushen as one

[calm falcon]

lushen doesnt use runes from either of those offenses

[vale jay]

But Adriana would share runes with Lushen since topset swift but I mean who TF cares

Just Lushen bad defenses

That's the only place we Lushen anyways

[calm falcon]

oh right topset

[vale jay]

Try Leah during normal week and see how it feels

If it works cool if not ask questions and improve or shelf it

[autumn crystal]

Leah shouldn’t be competing with Tiana runes either

[vale jay]

Let's keep it at just 3

Not too many things

Just 3

[autumn crystal]

Unless you are so swift poor you can’t tune Chiwu and def break without stealing from Tiana

[vale jay]

Lushen Leo Christina and Leah

[meager mauve]

YOu guys say it shouldn't be competing but uh

[autumn crystal]

This is really the answer. Just try some things on

[meager mauve]

My depth is about like the shallow end of a pool on a hot summer day and they forgot to turn the pump on

[vale jay]

Its ok keep it simple, do these 3 and ask questions here

[autumn crystal]

Int into lots of different defs with different aos

[vale jay]

Yep

[autumn crystal]

That’s how we learn

[meager mauve]

WE LOVE INTING

[autumn crystal]

Same with the mechanics of rushing tbh

[meager mauve]

Yeah, you're right though

Just learn what works and what doesn't. It's how I learned what I can and can't Jaara

[autumn crystal]

I lost to the same ad 3 times in a row today that I would 100 skip during rush

Just to test how different comps would or wouldn’t work into it

[meager mauve]

Yeah that makes sense. And honestly if I am good enough for G1 I shoudl rune gap 90% of what I face until I get into P1-P3 anyway

Key word there being should

[autumn crystal]

Correct. Which is why Leah should be fine into 99% of those nessa Juno byung cami defs you see on the way up

[tired hollow]

Who cares, swift people skip Lora- id slam despair on her and farm the nem tianas

And then also u get the added benefit of not using swift on ur defense

People catch on really slow to u having a trash set on ad anyways

Like this has been my triton for months

[tired hollow]

Adriana is cool into zen, but I’m gonna be honest I get outsped by 33 zen with 33 Adriana +220 sometimes… I wouldn’t ask jayke to try Adriana against most stuff that isn’t just tianaable

Also zens are a dying breed

I will also say I will go the whole hour without getting hit sometimes in g1 during old rush…

And I don’t have Lora

[autumn crystal]

P sure 24 Adriana 33 zen is dead even race. Which isn’t great for jayke if anyone is running zen on a real swift set

[tired hollow]

33 Adriana vs 33 zen is not even

[autumn crystal]

Yeah you’re right, edited

The comp we were discussing would be 24 adri though

[tired hollow]

Ah mb

Forgot no snipes and no eludia

[tired hollow]

untrue- even in g3 its a rarity to see topset

(i assume g3 topsets are approx 225-235, which all outspeed me)

the people who outspeed me are the ones who i know have second, third, and fourth sets that outspeed my topset

maybe in eu people might be sweatier? but in global its p much just a small subset of sf, malev, myth, and null folk

oh, with that being said if you're putting topset on lora for ao then she'll be on topset for ad as well

which means you'll need something tuned to her

[fiery geode]

1 - rune gap is a myth

i'm starting to really get annoyed by people who keep mentioning this in all pvp areas of the game

what most people are experiencing when they talk about rune gapping

is that guardian level players are used to dominating conq level players, and then when they actually face competition that is at their appropriate level, they start failing. not because anyone is doing any rune gapping, but because they're using shitty teams that are not built correctly. so then they think they are losing to rune gap or whatever but the reality is that their bad habits are getting exposed. no one is rune gapping anyone

the other big part of this is

there is an insane amount of r3 and accounts that have farmed for 10 years but are not trying to compete at their appropriate level

you will run into a ton of super strong accounts at low levels of all pvp areas

even if you're punisher climbing through conq. or guardian climbing through punisher. you can't rely on just "rune gapping" everyone

all the advice i give him always assumes that you have equal or worse runes than the opponent you're facing

runes are important, building your teams properly with your best runes is important. but don't think lower ranks are easy because you greatly outrune them, and don't think that higher ranks are impossible because they greatly outrune you. as much as people wish it to be, this game is not just a comparison of who has the fastest swift set or best single rune and then the loser just automatically loses

this leads into 2 - i'm serious, just start with 1 AO at a time. maybe you can do 2 or 3 but as of now i have yet to see 1 good AO

you already have enough problems with rune depth, don't make it even harder on yourself. spend a lot of time practicing midweek, you should have 350+ swords used each week

and 3 - to answer your question about top set swift, i think it's almost a 50/50 split in terms of what people do here. having a top set swift on AD and then not using teams that race for AO (or only using a secondary swift and just only racing those where you have huge spd advantage) is fine. not using swift on AD and giving that top set to AO is fine too. it's completely up to you

[tired hollow]

If he’s not using Lora on offense though, don’t you think it’d be a good idea to try some despair stuff so that he can keep topset on offense and beat the nem tianas that are running around hitting Lora’s?

Frees up rune depth moreso so he can rune 2nd offense if needed

[fiery geode]

what? you can try that. where did i say this was a bad idea

i'm also missing the context, i don't know what specific ad you're talking about

but i didn't say any specific ad was good or bad

[tired hollow]

I don’t have a specific ad b/c I don’t know his box well enough- just moreso my two cents referring to this. And generally afaik meta off into Lora is just Leo nem Tiana right?

[fiery geode]

you're overestimating how common any one solution is

anyway there's too much theoretical discussion here

present 1 AD and 1 AO and we'll go from there

[tired hollow]

It also beats Tiana’s that are hoping you aren’t tuned to ur +3, but I assume most people don’t ego race 33 Lora

Yeah, fair enough

Sorry if this wasn’t in scope

[meager mauve]

My Zaiross AO seems to be the best built and most consistently used. Let me share these builds....

[tired hollow]

I’d put will on galleon, helps with Leo

[meager mauve]

I don't run this comp into Leos. Shoudl I be?

[tired hollow]

You can if there’s no tl/luci/camix2 etc next to it imo? Just the Karnal lead type Leo defenses

[meager mauve]

Thinking about this last night, I need to fix Psamathe

I need to get him to move right after Zaiross.

[tired hollow]

Ur zaiross acc looks low, not sure how common high res stuff is on defense though

And ye psam doesn’t look tuned?

[meager mauve]

He isn't. I need to fix it.

Which is what I'm working on right now.

[tired hollow]

Fair, you also might be interested in having no spd lead options for other defenses like Juno strippers(which you posted earlier) or the aforementioned Leo’s

[fiery geode]

i don't love this team but if it works keep using it. it won't share runes with other AOs too so it'll be easy to add on additional teams

but before we start on those additional teams

keep improving this one

fix psama spd like you said for starters

how are your artis?

can you get tiana any faster?

[tired hollow]

How much do you worry about zaiross acc?

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah that was a question I had. With AO since you're rushing, are you supposed to leave Artis or are you supposed to change them like you do in Siege?

[fiery geode]

dont change artis

[tired hollow]

Not every hit

[fiery geode]

set generic ones

or like if you know you use this offense a lot into a specific def, then you can still use +ele

[tired hollow]

Ex: +wind/+fire on zaiross is probably okay for nessa byung Juno

[meager mauve]

Gotcha. Then I'll need to go through and set the ones I'd leave on there. I change them each hit I do into defenses during the week.

Well left side at least.

[meager mauve]

I am not sure I can, but I'll look to see what I can do. I think if I make her faster I lose a lot of damage.

[fiery geode]

your comp here relies much less on tiana dmg

my favorite tiana comps are those with lots of pushback like cp and pos

so they can give tiana that turn

you have no atb pushback here, tiana shouldn't be getting to use s2 on def broken targets most of the time

they're either already dead, or proc'ed whatever passive/nem