Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[vale jay]

just so if you fuck up

or something goes wrong, i dunno

you still have rina def broken

so feng will still go for her

double snipe isn't too bad

praline is slight advantage with lead

like +2? or something?

[meager mauve]

+1

So still risky

[vale jay]

i like laika for 8R, nice idea, i'd hit this differently but laika probably just soloes this def fairly unconditionally

good job

9R i VERY strongly dislike

feng gets def broken and you're cooked

hmmm

but

it wouldn't be turn 1

it's workable but this counter is not good

i dont like it

again this is another place i'd like you to use yeonhwa i feel

a yeonhwa with tanky core sounds good

kaki hurts

a LOT

you still haven't tried using him right

did you make it into isa?

[meager mauve]

Yes. I have used Kaki a couple of times, but not for anything substantial. Just for random things like a Tiana cleave or something.

[vale jay]

that's where he's generally used yes

[meager mauve]

I've mainly avoided him because jx9 said he didn't like kaki's damage.

[vale jay]

alright

well i disagree

kaki is an incredible monster

even with my more premium options

i have double cheongpung for example

i prefer

if a defense is tiana-able

to kaki it

i also want to point out

kaki is REALLY, REALLY good

if your runes suck

like REALLY good

you won't feel like your runes suck if you use kaki because the multiplier is so bananas

the tiana-able defenses

so like

you know the karnal abellio defenses?

i don't double cheongpung those anymore

i just deb kaki

it's less headache and honestly feels safer

try for yourself

it doesn't matter what either of us think

kaki is awesome

[meager mauve]

Going back and reading through the jx9 kaki stuff, I think he's referring more to Kaki for Siege offense with Tiana, rather than Kaki for AO. I think the specific situations where I used Kaki were poor, rather than generally referring to Kaki as a bad monster.

[meager mauve]

Forgot to post WGB hits here:

1.) I think this was a really poor hit. I just kind of threw it together thinking I could depend on Perna killing Seara and Iunu killing Masha.

2.) I believe I can win this if I choose my targets better. If I use Cov to hit Woosa instead, and then use Kahli on Savannah, then Rakan targets Praline and I can 3v1.

3.) I liked being able to use Jaara to kill Taranys immediately, then turn on Barbara. Dismounted her because Jaara targeted her during the Sigrid S3.

4.) I figured as long as I had a couple of ways to survive Odin's attack, I'd be okay. He targeted Carc, Triana protected him, and then both carc and theo killed him.

5.) I am around 95% certain I just rune gapped this defense. I don't think this comp is super great. I mostly just picked Tesa and FY for surviving theo. No attack buff for theo other than his passive, so I just left him to last.

6.) Leave Juno for last and it was a pretty easy 3v1.

7.) Probably could have Miri/Lushen'ed here. I just noticed that Copper/Dozer could immediately snipe Shizuka and then Ritesh. First cleave that came to mind.

8.) I needed Windy for another hit later on, so I used T/FY/Lulu instead. Now that I'm looking at it, CP can actually reset Lulu, so I should have taken Tetra instead.

9.) Jaara S2 on Theo kills him with no passive proc, and then I figured it would be a pretty easy win afterwards. I got unlucky and Vela def broke Jaara, then Chandra vio procced a few times to kill. I still won because Gemini + Sigrid managed to clean up.

10.) This one I think I just got plain unlucky. Byungchul procced 5 times in a row on two straight turns. He proced 5 times to kill Windy from half health, and then once my Racuni and Tesa moved, Byung procced another 5 times to kill Tesa from half health too. I think the comp is fine.

[green bronze]

Making a defence with Minato and Riley. Do I pick fire mk or Ophillia lead

Nice run-down btw jayke 🙂

[meager mauve]

I already shared these with Scarlet, but wanted to post them here in case there was different advice someone else had.

[green bronze]

do you have any advice for what I asked?

[fiery geode]

make your own thread

and read #1048719420870107227 before you do

[green bronze]

🫃

[fiery geode]

don't bring iunu into defs with a strong fire dd

[fiery geode]

not sure what order you tried but you should save sav for last. the problem with leaving rakan for last is that he can revenge counter and cause problems for your dd. also sav can't even be 1 shot

[meager mauve]

The order I went was Rakan -> Savannah. Leaving Savannah for last does seem right now that you mention it.

[fiery geode]

pretty sure we talke dabout this def before, elucia is better here over theo. you dont need 2 dd

[fiery geode]

yea this is bad. you have no way of getting through ophilia fast and if theo gets a few procs you eventually die

[fiery geode]

this doesn't work. fire megumi has a strip...

[meager mauve]

Right, but he's always going to target Copper or Imesety with it. He's not going to target Dozer will he?

And I figured Copper was going first, so it was fine if he got stripped.

He'd kill Shizuka off the bat, then if Megumi strips copper it's fine because Dozer isn't stripped yet and on Will, so he can kill Ritesh after.

[fiery geode]

oh shit you're right i'm confusing some of these new units

i thought he had an aoe strip but it maybe was some other jjk guy

[meager mauve]

I think that's light megumi?

[fiery geode]

id have to see the replay but the team does sound fine. make sure your stuff is runed well though

also note that since the only def break is xf who is single target, you didn't have to do 2 fire with windy

could be windy + any 2 non wind

[vale jay]

?jx9

[lapis pecan]

intelligent advisor marvelous reading capabilities

[fiery geode]

LOL wtf

jx9 should be "i'm getting old and can't keep track of all these newfangled dongles"

[vale jay]

you just like me for real

[meager mauve]

More WGB hits:

1.) I figured Jaara into Perna and Taranys was a good play. S2 Perna, then attempt to kill Taranys. I got lucky with this comp though. Looking at it now, I could easily have lost this if Mo Long S3's Jaara and then Taranys revives Perna, who then hits the low Jaara.

2.) Seemed like a good lushen target. Mihyang can clean up the rest.

3.) This defense was just bad because no defense break. Just pick a wind tank, make sure Tesa is built to be strong enough to withstand Camilla, and you basically just press auto.

4.) Snipe Rakan, Snipe Louise, then Water hacker can't 3v1. Louise survived the Kahli snipe, so probably best to run Fire Kass instead next time for the extra damage.

5.) Ran Julie because I don't really have other MST counters set up yet.

6.) I didn't even consider this very well, I just sent it. Poor choice though. Mirinae is lower speed than Savannah, even speed leads, and all 3 monsters can survive if built properly. I only won because I rune gapped. 😦

7.) Boost Copper -> Kill Aaliyah, FY and Bellenus do whatever they want, doesn't matter because Dozer is on Will and there's no strip, Dozer kills FY, and then 3v1 Bellenus.

8.) Killed Kinki with Jaara, then the rest fell eventually because they didn't have any damage.

9.) I did not have any idea how poorly thought out my comp was. I got very lucky that the Frigate was built so incredibly poorly. He moved first on Swift. I was only considering him using S3. I didn't even think about him using S2. If I had thought about that I would have run all monsters on Will. I didn't do that and nearly lost.

10.) Snipe Woosa with Cov, Snipe Jeanne with Kahli, then 3v1 Cadiz.

Several comps were only won by rune gaps. I need to take WGB more seriously, despite the fact that I know I can rune gap 90% of my battles.

[vale jay]

keep in mind rune gapping is going to end

quickly

you will be playing permanently rune gapped soon

i feel like you should feng more

like honestly 2R i would feng aaliyah racuni and 5R i'd miri it

vela is fine if you wanna preset warrior too, whatever

for 4R how come you used praline lead?

i don't think you need it right?

[meager mauve]

I know. That's why I'm disappointed in this WGB. I shouldn't be making dumb mistakes like this. I should be taking them seriously.

[vale jay]

there's louise lead here, if they're tanky enough i can see you losing

i mean most of these hits aren't that bad

[meager mauve]

I was worried about water hacker on swift. Wasn't sure I could outspeed since Praline isn't on my fastest swift.

[vale jay]

they're fine, you know how i feel about julie into MST

i'm gonna be honest

i look at a defense like this

[meager mauve]

Yeah I don't like it either, but I don't have the other counters for it built yet.

[vale jay]

there's no way it's on swift with proper runes lmao

[vale jay]

just miri it

miri is fine

its not perfect but its going to have a very high winrate

don't overcomplicate this in siege either

if you see this def just miri it

you have 3 miris

you should use them

[meager mauve]

Yeah actually question about that. I feel like using Miri on MST is a waste because there's so many other ways I could hit it. I could save Miri for a more "valuable" defense that needs it to win, rather than one that can be beat by several F2P comps.

[vale jay]

you have 3 miris

just use them

don't overcomplicate

most sieges you will not use miri 3 times

don't try to "save" stuff

you can "save" when you're more confident and learned

your account has more strong premium options than mine does

and i think the only real time i've ran out of safe hits was against malevolent

my hits are almost always just me being a bozo when i lose

[meager mauve]

I'm also not super confident in my FY because he's so slow.

[vale jay]

bozo

he's not supposed to be fast

how fast is your feng

read feng yan third skill its a good skill

[meager mauve]

Yeah I know, but I seem to recall that he should ideally be on 239 tick or something?

I couldn't make that work, so I have him on 205 tick, which is much slower than the recommendation.

[vale jay]

well for starters

that isn't 205

and secondly

read feng yan third skill

and thirdly

[meager mauve]

I know about the FY S3 ATB boost.

😄

Oh wait hang on

Maybe it was recommended on 205 tick and I couldn't do that

I can't remember. All I know is that this is as good as I can build him for right now.

[vale jay]

https://imgur.com/QmAUzLv

feng ticks dont matter

179 is fine

i'm going to rebuild mine

since i've gotten upgrades

but i have 0 losses this season in siege with him

[meager mauve]

Hey same! (I have not had a FY until after this season was over)

I do need to work on my Vela build too. I have both VY and Aaliyah built, but I am just using whatever is on Vela currently rather than an actual build.

Need to get to 100 res I think, a little more accuracy would be nice, and I think I need to skill him up.

Ignore the blue arti because I replace artis based on the defenses.

[vale jay]

Blue artis are fine

Skill up vela

There are multiple ways to do vela

I think my favorite is just 100 res though most of the time
If you can do 100 res and crate eventually it's goated but just 100 res Vio will with tankiness gets the job done well

You can forgo res also and just stack crate and tankiness
I've done plenty of that too

I do feel like it's a mistake to not make him bruiser style usually

[meager mauve]

Why CR?

I don't really understand what CR does for him.

[vale jay]

If you crit you do damage and they die

You have def buff so you want to be taking advantage of that and contributing meaningful amounts of damage

[meager mauve]

Yeah, this is a mechanic I don't really understand. If you crit, but you have no CD built, does it really do that much extra damage? Or would you end up doing more if you just built more DEF?

[vale jay]

CD is fake my brother

[fiery geode]

there's a lot of free CD you get from summoner skills even if you dont get any CD from runes

[vale jay]

It doesn't matter for bruisers

In comparison to other stats

[fiery geode]

although i will say these days i really prefer full tank vela

[vale jay]

Cdmg is always icing on the cake

[fiery geode]

there was a short period of time in between balance patches where bruiser vela made sense

[vale jay]

Indeed he do be the unit dying most often these days

[fiery geode]

that short period where his s2 heal scaled on his dmg

also if you want CD it's much more efficient to get it from artifacts

it's like the most efficient thing you can get from artis

[vale jay]

I'm def up effect enjoyer for velajuel

Is good

[fiery geode]

enjoy your def buff getting stripped though

[vale jay]

Good thing modern defenses don't have strips on every single defense
oh wait

Outside of def up effect though if you're running full tank vela I think the only useful thing is s2 recovery which doesn't feel marvelous either
But it's probably best

[meager mauve]

The arti on him right now has S2 recovery and S2 accuracy on 2 rolls each. Probably as good as it gets until i can get higher rolls on something else.

[vale jay]

Oh yeah s2 accuracy oops

That's good now gem in def up effect or first atk cdmg

[meager mauve]

So tempted to use the Scarlet command now.....

[vale jay]

Idiot advisor....

[meager mauve]

And right after you hit the jx9 command too.

My how the mighty have fallen. 😉

[meager mauve]

I joined a new guild and did my first WGB with them today. It is very clear I will need to be much more deliberate and careful about my picks.

1.) Praline was on my fastest swift, but Craig still outsped. I needed to run Praline lead, but I figured that without a speed lead, I could have a decent shot here. Rune gapped, really.

2.) Very poor choice because of perma immunity on Zeratu. Don't know what I was thinking, honestly.

3.) I thought this comp would work well because I had cleanse, long-term immunity, good sustain, and FY does pretty good damage.

4.) Thought about this one for a bit. Figured that I just needed to boost, kill Ashour, and then I'd be able to win this eventually.

5.) Honestly just kind of had the idea that if I ran Lora + Tetra, I could survive Theomars attacks. Not the case. Poor offense. Not going to attempt something this silly anymore.

6.) I liked this idea, especially with the recent Vritra nerfs. I'd have long term immunity, and the only def break is on Vritra revenge. Worked really well.

7.) Honestly not sure what I was thinking with this one now that I'm looking at it. I can't one-shot Brita. Probably better to pick a bruiser team and kill Elad first.

8.) Seemed like a decent idea. The defense seems pretty bad though. No damage really.

9.) Honestly just thought "pick Triana, survive Odin nuke, then kill Odin asap. The funny part is that not only did Craig not boost, but I killed Odin with Tesa via S1 applying Oblivion, then S2 killing him. I think the comp would have worked even without that insane luck.

[vale jay]

Praline lead r1

There's a swift threat

[meager mauve]

Right. I just thought that Praline on my top swift + at a higher base speed would be sufficient.

Which obviously, not correct.

[vale jay]

Why no bethony used

Use bethony first

In double snipes

She's best double snipe unit in entire game

Just use her

3R just X this

You know?

No speed lead

[meager mauve]

3R in the first one?

[vale jay]

4R isn't bad. Nice job

Yes

[meager mauve]

Wouldn't Rakan be a problem for X?

Just because of immunity + provoke?

[vale jay]

6R is OK but I'm scared of Kumar oblivion

[vale jay]

How does he do that

Read s3 of your monsters

He has to proc 3 times

7R USE BETHONY!!!!!!!

Praline bethony covenant is good here!! You can and should use it!

It's possible for Brita to survive but I doubt it's happening

[meager mauve]

I'll be honest, force of habit to just pick Kahli. 😓

[meager mauve]

But that's assuming I move first right? How do I know I'll go first?

[meager mauve]

1.) Thought I could snipe FY then Riley and 3v1 Byung. This Byung was built horribly, so it worked. Not a good hit.

2.) Nana and dom were both on -wind and I hadn't changed my artis. I need to do that next time. They both survived.

3.) Thought this was just a safe solid offense option.

4.) Saw this recommended here. Windy died from multiple Carc procs. 😦

5.) Honestly I was using my Tetra runes elsewhere and hadn't built another set. Need to fix that. Really bad hit.

6.) Julie food.

7.) Looked up this comp on SWGT and really liked it. Easy to rune and extremely safe.

8.) As a consequence of my poor choice from earlier, this well built byung destroyed me. 😦

9.) Again, safe offense into the defense. Immunity, sustain, tankiness.

10.) I thought this was a good offense pick. Yeonhwa atk breaks and tanks, Racuni cleanses provokes, tesa kills Perna. Seemed impossible to lose.

[vale jay]

this counter on 4R requires higher quality runes than you likely are using

generally it's a lot better if elucia and vigor are 286, you also need to be smart with your piloting

[vale jay]

try again for 1R/8R
this def can be 2 mon'd lol

[vale jay]

Were you sleeping the miles

5R I think you are just supposed to double snipe

[vale jay]

This one is alright. Not a bad counter.

[meager mauve]

I was indeed. Rune quality was the issue for sure.

[vale jay]

show builds

[meager mauve]

Carc + Rina could probably be fine.

[vale jay]

sure vamp carc probably works

i was thinking of vamp skogul

just make sure rina is 0 res

[meager mauve]

Tetra build was on Elucia

[vale jay]

too squishy windy i think for this setup

also it would help

if windy was 6/7 S1

but anyways

[meager mauve]

Fastest Swift already on Miri.

[vale jay]

use second fastest

or third i guess

[meager mauve]

The problem I have with WGB is I can either Lushen, Double Snipe, or Julie.

[vale jay]

the thing is 2r is unsafe because

nana comes back and rica goes ham

hmm

[meager mauve]

All snipes are tuned to fastest. I suppose if Praline is faster than them still it should be fine.

[vale jay]

yes

you just have a slightly slower praline

that's all

a +180 praline or whatever

is still gonna outspeed

unless its swift nora

in which case

unluck

we go next boys

[meager mauve]

Yeah that's one of them o7 defenses.

[vale jay]

hopefully its faster than +180

but if it isn;'t

you just say

eh

swift nora

unluck

we go next

same shit as swift shaina with MST

sometimes you just have to say

eh

[meager mauve]

I would also guess that you have to leave Ritesh for last right?

[vale jay]

unluck guys

i'm not 100% sure

i think you leave ritesh

that's my guess

[meager mauve]

I can't tell if leaving Nora or Ritesh is a better idea.

[vale jay]

not nora

it would be audrey

but the problem is

if you leave audrey

i dunno it seems sus

you could triple snipe this too

but i don't think you have runes for triple snipe yet...

[meager mauve]

I do if I take them from another sniper! XD

[vale jay]

no it's

you need to speed tune

to kahli speed buff

which is

[meager mauve]

I need to find my 2nd and 3rd fastest swifts.

[vale jay]

that or pull a kiara

it's hard to rune

and you still want

like

you're looking for like

at least +180 kahli

[meager mauve]

Because I have just top for right now.

[vale jay]

with real stats

yeah

i dunno

depth

comes with time

but anyways

do you

have belial

you do right

[meager mauve]

I do, yeah. Just no Camilla

[vale jay]

it's not perfect but i feel like

juno rina belial

is probably

like 93-94

[meager mauve]

On 5R?

[vale jay]

ye

should be

it's not perfect at all

but i feel like it wins more often than not

you just need to get rid of nora very quickly

because she can fuck you up

[meager mauve]

Right. And you'd leave Ritesh last for sure.

[vale jay]

juno will probably die

you're just buying time

as soon as nora dies

i feel like

you're probably ok

audrey will hurt but

idk

thats

my guess

if you dont wanna double snipe there

i feel like ritesh can gosicko mode and solo you

it's not that unreasonable

but eh

[meager mauve]

Nah double snipe is best. I should find my other sets.

[vale jay]

you need touse bethony more

she's so baloney man

use that unit

please

[meager mauve]

Gotta find my other sets first.

[vale jay]

7R is interesting though, i've never seen that solution before

generally it's not a good idea to miri most fire units to be honest

some exceptions

like

you can into MST (it's not perfect but it's fine)

i would NEVER do it into rica

that sounds fucking nuts

rica/nora

those units can solo

she hurts

[meager mauve]

Swgt suggested it and I immediately realised it was a free win. Even if Laika dies Nana revives and Laika on vamp takes forever to kill.

[vale jay]

its smart

cool idea

[meager mauve]

You can even kill carc and miles first to stack nana passive.

[vale jay]

i like it

might copy in future

ty for leaking tech for solved defense

i will use anyways

nana is back on the menu guys

just make sure

you dont fuck up hp amounts for some reason

should be free

like where carc sees tetra or something then miles goes bananas

but nah

its fine im sure

[meager mauve]

Even then, Nana has passive for Tetra. Only way you lose is a million procs from Miles and Carc on Laika.

[vale jay]

USE BETHONY NERD

[meager mauve]

Any use for Pungbaek? Just pulled a dupe and I don't think I've ever even considered using my first.

[fiery geode]

not for siege

[meager mauve]

1.) Belial seemed free because Rina tanks Chandra + byung forever, and if Seren dies there's no def break.

2.) Thought this would work just fine as long as I just sniped Gapsoo first. Worked well, though I did make a mistake piloting and killed Perna with Gemini. Nearly lost me the hit.

3.) This is a suggestion that Scarlet has given me before. Finally worked out how to make it run and it works really well. Need to work on the piloting though.

4.) Not a great JLH candidate, but I needed to get some hits in, and I had some prior info that this defense was not runed very well.

5.) Used some tech here that I know of but I don't think is common knowledge. Blurred to prevent leaks.

6.) Again not a super great FY/Aaliyah/Vela candidate, but needed to get some hits in. Also went in with knowledge on this one too. This guild was repopulating towers left and right with these defenses, so I had plenty of replays to figure out which defenses would be safest to hit.

7.) Thought this was actually pretty clever. As long as Windy is tanky enough to survive a few vio procs from perna, I'd never really be able to lose this hit since Zen doesn't hit super hard and Chandra isn't ever going to kill either water unit.

8.) Went in just trying to get a hit in, but I also thought this was a great Miri Lushen candidate. Miri has higher base speed on same speed lead. Lost this one because I did not bring a +damage to light arti on Lushen.

9.) Ran it back on the exact same hit, but ran +light on Lushen and it was flawless.

I did not get my 10th hit in before the end of Siege.

Overall I think this was a decent performance. My hits were a little questionable in some instances (#4 for example) but I managed to make them work. Definitely need to get more rune depth, as part of the reason I was so slow in getting hits was because of the enormous amount of runing I had to do for new monsters like XF, Yeonhwa, and Belial.

[vale jay]

Bolverk is good but don't underestimate Chandra with def break

Did you run -water on bolverk and Amelia

[meager mauve]

Yes on both. I figured Chandra would hit harder than Zen, so I put both on -water.

Bolverk was on my best one, Amelia on my 2nd best.

[meager mauve]

Not happy with WGB this go around. I picked some that were difficult for me to solve and paid the price.

1.) Felt like this was pretty easy to Julie. Put Julie on +Wind and also put Gally on -wind.

[vale jay]

I really don't like Feng into ashour

If you can avoid it ai would

You don't have Kinki right

[meager mauve]

No Kinki.

[vale jay]

Can gamble miri 5R

Feng into tesa fucking sucks don't do that

I'm gonna be honest

Yeonhwa +2

Probably is fre

[meager mauve]

3.) I honestly couldn't come up with any other way to handle this. I didn't really have any good cleaves that I could think of and I wasn't sure how to bruiser this without Tetra.

[vale jay]

Free

What is this f2p shit

[meager mauve]

Old habits die hard. :/

I'm forgetting to use premiums because I'm so used to using F2P units instead.

4.) I think if I had gone Manon -> Ophilia I could have won this, but I went Manon -> Wind Monkey and failed to kill Wind Monkey through passive.

[meager mauve]

5.) Problem is I was already using Bernard on 1R on topset swift, so I couldn't Miri. I honestly don't have a good answer for this. I figured if I just made Audrey extremely tanky and then ran Bolverk I might be able to keep her alive. Unfortunately Zeratu vio procced while Audrey was def broken and killed her before she could even move.

6.) Used this comp before. Bolverk + Amelia -water. Worked well.

7.) Just set this up as though Betta was Eladriel and it worked fine.

[meager mauve]

8.) Yeonhwa + 2 fire recommended here. I'll keep that in mind for next time. I picked Feng just because I figured he has cleanse + I have tesa to prevent oblivion. Save S2 for when FY is hit with oblivion and then focus Tesa first, I felt this was alright.

9.) Just a Miri gamble. I figured if they had this on swift, Orion would want to move first, since Xiana can't strip. I have a 1 speed advantage on Orion, so I felt this was a decent race to run.

10.) Order was Nora -> Louise. I figured Amber would have a tough time 1v3. I put Praline on +S2 accuracy to help land stun.

[tiny orchid]

wouldn't it be better to kill ophilia with cov, zhe with bethony and then praline tanks manon? cov can cleanse her buff without issue

assuming bethony has enough damage to snipe zhe

[finite terrace]

im confused, why would praline tank manon

[tiny orchid]

nevermind I got it switched around

[meager mauve]

Can't do that. Manon passive.

Manon must die first or else you are gambling.

[tiny orchid]

yea, nevermind disregard my advice then

[finite terrace]

im surprised u tried to double snipe this, monkey with his dr and hp lead is hard to kill

i think id just bruiser it

[meager mauve]

Yeah, you are right. This was a poor decision. I think if I'm being honest I just auto-piloted to double-snipe as soon as I saw Manon.

I'll sit down in a while and see if I can come up with a bruiser solution to it instead.

[finite terrace]

i think rina double wind destroys this defense?

rina dominic riley is my first impression

[meager mauve]

No dom, but that seems like it might work.

My only worry would be if Manon def breaks Rina and then breaks shield, Wind monkey could hurt before she gets shield again.

But it's probably good enough.

[finite terrace]

hm maybe, idk how much manon does to rina, i cant remember the last time i tried to tank her on siege def

[meager mauve]

I don't know either, but I don't think it would take much. Just a vio proc or two without any crits and Rina loses shield + has def break. Then monkey hits afterwards. Seems kinda scary.

Actually thinking about it now, bruisering this would be really tough. Manon passive + monkey passive means you have 2 chances of counterattack.

[finite terrace]

idk, i trust rina to tank stuff xd
ive tanked brita + byung with rina, idk how responsible that was but its worked out

[finite terrace]

oh manon counter with threat stat could cause issues ig

[meager mauve]

Manon doesn't get threat state. She just has hug.

[finite terrace]

from the ophilia i mean

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah. Gotcha.

yeah, this defense is actually a tough one. You're practically forced to cleave it or else you're in for a really bad time.

[vale jay]

Cherry pick more and find your second best swift

[vale jay]

Which defense is tough?

Xing Ophilia Manon?

calculating

Can't you praline song Shren this? Run double or triple will song tuned

You can take unfair races with your second (third, whatever) best swift to compensate

[meager mauve]

Probably put fastest swift on Miri, second on Bernard then I suppose.

No way I'm going to race on 2 speed advantage against a Zen with 2nd set. Seems too risky.

[vale jay]

Ideally not

Jx will yell at me again for suggesting song but I think this offense is fine here
Outside of that yes you can do rina stuff

If you wanna be a premium baller even though there "isn't AoE" (normally we want that when we take belial in) belial is fine

Because you can just s2 on open and xing will kill you

[meager mauve]

I'd agree if I had cami. I don't know about Rina though. Seems too risky.

[vale jay]

Why

Rina is still good

Realistically speaking you just need to hit one window and kill Manon and you're fine

[meager mauve]

Manon can both def break and leave Rina without shield, and then Xing can hit Rina.

[vale jay]

I mean your rina sucks

You know we are going to have a 3rd unit present right

So

Ideally the third unit is some kind of support unit with a cleanse

Remind me no Angela right?

[meager mauve]

No Angela

[vale jay]

Triana is fine

Triana rina belial sounds fine

Safer than praline songseol Shren probably

In case there's some weird window where you are forced to hit Ophilia and the monkey strips your will

But yeah your rina sucks man get better runes

Look for pure tanky runes

They don't have to be high quality, flats aren't bad in scenarios like this

Triple energy or some guard mixed in is fine

Don't tell jx but I've been running a 179 rina forever

It still works

Think since booster event I can improve it but yeah you can literally do 179 tick

Plenty of other options too

Like

Rina Triana/ritesh/Angela/Riley belial should all serve you fine

[vale jay]

So you do this

Except instead of covenant you run Kahli

I believe

Double sniping this is good too

Just don't hit the damage reduction unit and set up a condition where at least one of your DDs will be the last to be targeted

Bethony kills Manon
Kahli kills Ophilia

Chandra Kahli bethony is probably cleaner than praline here FWIW

[meager mauve]

Yeah but that would involve re-runing both Kahli and Bethony to 100 CR. They're set to 70 with Praline at the moment.

My rune depth is still pretty severely lacking.

[vale jay]

It's a rune swap offense

But yeah

Just praline but be better next time

That's the plan

[meager mauve]

Yeah. Targeting Xing was a mistake. Your idea of Kahli is great actually.

[vale jay]

That offense I suggested should be much easier to rune and higher success rate FWIW

And can be used into other stuff

[meager mauve]

Siege hits. I'm omitting a loss due to tech. I was unable to finish all of my hits before Siege ended.

1.) Terrible defense. This was the first thing that came to mind that I thought could win. Just oblivion Momo and there's no damage.

2.) Top Swift battle.

3.) MY on a slower Vio build to ensure water robo dies, then 3v1 Kinki.

4.) I had lots of info on this. The person before me attempted to Lushen and ended up failing to kill Byung with 1 health. His Lushen was actually built terribly and wasn't on +wind. This was an info cleave.

5.) My guildies gave me a great idea on this one. Set Amelia to be 1 speed slower than Bolv so that she always gives bolv immunity so that he can't be def broken by Sav unless she vio procs. Worked like a charm.

6.) This was a race, but one I felt I could win. I had a 2 speed advantage on the Chandra. Killed Chandra first, then killed Fire Hacker.

7.) Same defense as #1. I knew I could Julie this with no issues.

[vale jay]

Where's @fiery geode

[vale jay]

Wait this seems wrong

I don't remember but I think normally we go Kinki first?

Hmmge

I forget

But I'm sure both are ok

[haughty siren]

You are really bold

[fiery geode]

no he did it fine

nana momo nora isn't a horrible def you're just rune gapping him

[meager mauve]

Bold? Why do you say that? I had info on the defense. I knew how squishy they were.

[fiery geode]

it's not good practice

maybe they were missing runes

[meager mauve]

Sure. We could even say they were completely unruned. Is it bad practice to Julie when I have the info that they are weak to it? This wasn't a blind cleave.

[fiery geode]

even if i knew it was unruned it still wouldn't cross my mind to use julie

you can cleave with something more appropriate like tiana

like you should never even think

to julie a tank def

[meager mauve]

Ah. That makes sense. The cleave wasn't the right one for the job.

[fiery geode]

if you are seeing these units and thinking "julie"

your thinking is wrong

[meager mauve]

I've got another question that I think I'm just lacking knowledge on.

I don't understand Tiana's use cases.

She has a really low base speed, but she needs to move first and deal damage. So you run her on a high CD swift set.

But since it isn't your top set, you can't really contest any speed leads. And even if you did have it as your top set, you'd still be racing at a disadvantage a lot.

So then realistically, wouldn't you be running Tiana into only defenses without Speed leads?

And if that's the case, wouldn't there be other options that are better that would run your topset to guarantee a win?

For example, a double snipe with Praline over Tiana. Or in my case, Miri/Lushen over Tiana.

So I am confused as to what kinds of defenses I am looking to hit with Tiana, and why Tiana would be a good pick into them instead of other offenses.

I imagine this is also partially due to experience where I need to learn how mons are typically built.

[fiery geode]

you're on to some things, i very rarely use tiana in siege. but some things you're not considering:

there are a lot of defs without spd leads

even defs with spd lead, the def has to have a spd threat that can actually do something threatening with their first turn

and against tiana who has a full cleanse, there's lots of cases where you don't even care if the enemy gets first turn

for example, we often talk about swift ophilia

or maybe the spd threat is only a single target stripper/cc like brita who can't target tiana, so it wont matter

and then there are plenty of defs where you can't use other cleaves like praline, such as nana, but you could use aoe cleaves like tiana

and tiana's advantage over other aoe cleaves like lushen isn't damage, but it's the cc that it brings. so you can stack cc on top of multiple layers/hits of damage

that's also why i don't use tiana that much, because the best tiana teams require premium lds that have additional cc. think things like neph or maxi

[meager mauve]

This was what I wasn't getting. I always assumed it was the damage. Also explains why most people prefer CP over stuff like Poseidon.

This being the case, then would a Tiana offense be acceptable even if Tiana didn't have high CD, but was on Swift?

[fiery geode]

depends on the def and you certainly can, but i'd say thats just not a good use of tiana and you should look for something else

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

1-5 I did with Scarlet looking over my shoulder, so I think they're pretty good.
1.) Standard counter into this defense.
2.) Thought that double revive would work because of fire kass. Worked just fine. Diana managed to vio proc a few times too, which helped.
3.) Standard counter into this defense.
4.) Took forever, but pretty safe. Vero even died, but we had already killed Frigate so it was fine.
5.) Needed to kill Misty then Vigor and I thought I'd be okay. Got a little dicey, but worked out in the end.

6.) I thought this one out a lot, and I think I had this pretty much perfect. First, I realized that Nigong does not give ATB on revive, which means if I kill Gapsoo and Theo and they are revived, they are revived with no ATB. Since this entire comp is on swift, I know I could get more turns. 2nd, I thought about Jaara getting S2 up. Again, Jaara would have S2 up by the time they were revived and would be able to use it to kill both Gapsoo and Theo when they revived. Even if Nigong vio procced and revived again, I could keep doing the same thing since Jaara wouldn't need attack buff anymore to kill them. I thought it was a well-thought out fight and it worked exactly like that.

7.) This was a weird comp, and I'd like some input. Dark Monkey doesn't have strip, but has CC. Valantis has strip, but low base speed. If you make them think Valantis could be Swift, you could run Dark Monkey with his insane base speed on Swift and win if they don't have Will. I gambled. I got incredibly lucky, and Dark Monkey was on swift but instead used S1. I don't know how to handle this comp or how to think about it properly.

8.) I used some tech that I've been asked not to disclose.

9.) I'll be honest, I have absolutely 0 idea how to handle this defense. I sat for a good 45 minutes and couldn't figure anything out, so I just decided I'll throw stuff at it and expect a loss. I could use some help figuring this one out. I feel like it's just gambling no matter what. Molly + Manon passive make this really hard for me to figure out.

10.) This was a fun one. I took Laika + 2 water to make it so that Carc focused him. Chow cleansed his own sleep, and Tetra was there to help heal them all. Chow ended up dying, but then Laika killed everything with S2 afterwards.

[north zenith]

No rigna?

[young nexus]

dominic riley rina, kill manon first

[meager mauve]

No rigna. 😦

[meager mauve]

No dom. 😦

[young nexus]

bolv amelia windy, feng leo aaliyah

[north zenith]

Autocrit or bolv seem op into that setup

[meager mauve]

Is bolv unable to glance?

[fiery geode]

are you talking about byung molly manon?

[north zenith]

His dmg mechanism kind of involves not touching the unit

[fiery geode]

what was your line of thinking?

just go back to basics

there's only 1 def break on this def and it's single target

[meager mauve]

I honestly didn't have one. I had no idea how to hit this.

[fiery geode]

rina + 2 wind

[meager mauve]

The problem is that the single target can still hit anything because of Manon passive.

[fiery geode]

no?

[meager mauve]

Wait, you mean killing Manon first.

[fiery geode]

read her passive again

[meager mauve]

Oh I'm dumb.

[fiery geode]

its double dumb

first the passive excludes herself

so if you hit manon its fine

second the passive counter doesn't even def break

it stuns

[meager mauve]

The passive counter doesn't use S1 as the attack?

[fiery geode]

no, thats why you need to read it again

[meager mauve]

I had read it, but it doesn't specify that it isn't the S1 attack. They way I read it, the passive just added a stun to the S1.

That's useful information. I'll make sure to remember that in the future.

[fiery geode]

if the skill says "counterattack" that means it uses s1

if the skill says "attacks the enemy" that means it's not s1 and it just uses the passive skill as an attack (it's a completely separate skill)

[meager mauve]

I was not aware of that. I just thought they meant the same thing. Thank you for that info.

[fiery geode]

for example compare xing or chandra hug (counterattack) vs manon or miho (not s1)

[meager mauve]

I'll need to re-read any skills with counterattacks in them again to make sure I know which is which. Super helpful.

[vale jay]

Full will

But yeah you don't need dom

Rina Riley X or rina Triana X works (I think I like Riley more)

To name a few good options
Logan/Hraesvelg/fuco are solid f2p options
For premiums it can be anything really
Dominic/Momo/Eleni/Odin to name a few
If you have Kashmir this is one of those weird instances where he's actually not bad too
Be careful about revenge Manon if you choose to go for her first
She can revenge and def break you

[finite terrace]

I thought the revenge couldnt def break, just stun

[sleek wigeon]

Manon (Water Macaron Guard)

Wikia

1. Macaron Boomerang

Attacks the enemy to decrease Defense for 2 turns with a 40% chance. This attack will deal more damage according to your Defense.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

1.8*{ATK} + 2.7*{DEF}

2. Justice of Dessert

Increases your Defense for 3 turns and becomes immune to harmful effects for 3 turns. Instantly recovers a turn afterwards. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

3. Fat Macaron (Passive)

If an ally excluding yourself takes damage from an enemy during the enemy's turn, you have a 15% chance to offset that damage, attack the enemy instantly to deal damage proportionate to your Defense and stun the enemy for 1 turn. [Automatic Effect]

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

If she is runed on revenge, and you attack her, and she revenges, she will use her s1. That's what I am referring to

Usually when I hit this and I want to kill Manon first with this format I choose to only hit Manon while I have immunity until I see her destroying HP

[finite terrace]

Oh she goes revenge? I thought she was just will

[vale jay]

?? O_O

Wtf do you mean

Like that everyone who ever builds this defense runes it on will?

Destroy is most common honestly

Will is rare

[finite terrace]

Mhm idk, dont see that much manon xd

[vale jay]

I don't either

But when this was a thing destroy was most common

I mentioned the revenge thing because I've lost from this before where Manon def breaks my wind DD then some procs happened and I lost

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

1.) I put Lushen on +Wind and Byung lived with 1 HP. Very very close.

2.) Shahat was def broken, so I killed him, then I used Jaara S1 on Kinki, which one shot him. In retrospect, probably a slightly better option to do the reverse.

3.) Thinking about this now, I actually got lucky. Perna could vio proc a couple of times to kill Imesety and then I lose. Probably better to attempt to bruiser. Perhaps Bolverk would work better here.

4.) Seemed like a decent JLH target. No water units, focus the Cichlid first to prevent cleansing.

[fiery geode]

don't lushen byung

[meager mauve]

5.) This was a bad comp now that I'm thinking through this. Carc could S2 first, then Seren S3's on Tesa and I'm pretty much lost. I think a better choice is to just double snipe.

[fiery geode]

even brita can easily survive lushen

2. is an even speed race btw

3. copper dozer not safe because of possibility of swift chandra

bolv is better

[meager mauve]

I suppose it's pretty close to even. Gemini has 3 speed lead though, which made me more confident.

[fiery geode]

why are you counting gemini?

and not sigrid

[meager mauve]

This comp goes Gemini -> Sigrid -> Jaara

I suppose Sigrid is the one that boosts the damage dealer.

[fiery geode]

ok but does gemini buff spd, reduce enemy atb, or boosts your own atb?

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... that's something I had not thought about before.

[fiery geode]

is your sigrid not the same speed as your gemini?

[meager mauve]

It's tuned to Gemini.

[fiery geode]

so it's the same speed?

[meager mauve]

I think it's 1 speed less if I remember right. Let me doubel check.

[fiery geode]

that's also concerning

because if they are the same speed then that means you probably don't have your fastest set on any one of them

why does gemini go first anyway

[meager mauve]

I don't. I have 2nd fastest on Gemini and then tuned Sigrid to it.

[meager mauve]

Gemini can strip + def break, then Sigrid S3 allows Jaara to hit a def broken target.

[fiery geode]

your 2nd fastest set is like 4 speed slower than your fastest?

[meager mauve]

Then jaara can hit again.

[fiery geode]

i see

i'm just thinking of it from a speed contesting perspective

thats the main thing that's concerning about this comp

its not that fast and will have difficulty racing against any spd comp

[meager mauve]

I typically don't use this comp to speed contest. This was a good example of why I shouldn't and don't. I hadn't considered that Sigrid was the one that needed to contest, not Gemini.

2nd WGB hits:

1.) This is an example. No speed lead so I can be a lot more confident in this comp moving first.

2.) Pretty nice lushen target. Same speed leads but +2 base speed advantage. Also 2 really squishy monsters.

3.) This one I completely and totally forgot that if Vigor is on Swift he could S2 and then I lose. Better to just attempt something like a Julie cleave into it instead.

4.) Used tech that I've been asked not to disclose. I don't think it works well into this comp though. Poor choice.

5.) I think this was probably risky to hit. Praline was on 3rd fastest swift set and that can be beaten by a top speed vio set Shaina. I think I need to build a different comp for MST to hit this, like the TQ comp.

[vale jay]

Don't Lushen byungchul

You're using copper bulldozer way too much

[fiery geode]

copper dozer vs vigor is fine... i have never met anyone in g1 build a swift vigor (where the swift is actually a fast swift set)

[vale jay]

Oh 100% that wasn't what I was referring to sorry

[vale jay]

This is my cook so I'll take responsibility, I cooked this Jaara offense randomly and then Jayke ended up having both Sigrid and Jaara so he's been deploying it
I would definitely not use it here @meager mauve
My primary uses of this comp would be into non speed lead stuff or things where there really isn't a significant swift threat unless it's triple swift insane person behavior

[fiery geode]

oh it makes sense against the slower defs

[vale jay]

5R is wrong you know better I've told you this many times try again

This is still fine but it's less good than it can be

[coarse valve]

Does he have TQ

[vale jay]

No no it's not that

He has bethony

If you have bethony

I'm waiting for jayke

Oh this was your 3rd fastest swift

In that case it's less bad

[meager mauve]

This was a poor use of the offense, and I did not realize how poor it was until I sat down and looked at it. I typically only ever use it when there is no speed lead. I agree that it's slow and racing is a bad optoin.

[meager mauve]

Do you mean I should have run the Eshir Kona Bethony variant instead?

[vale jay]

indeed

[meager mauve]

How is that piloted? You kill Triana and then kill Shaina?

[vale jay]

Fat Bethony hurts

Kill Shaina through Triana passive

[meager mauve]

oooohhhh fat bethony. I don't know why i didn't make that connection before.

[tired hollow]

why is this that much better than just sniping triana with bethony?

isn't praline beth cov fine? send the beth into triana, cov into martina and then shaina hits ur praline?

[vale jay]

Think about it for a second

[vale jay]

Of course it's fine. They are both good comps. I don't see any reason to praline when you have bethony available though.

[tired hollow]

can you elaborate more on why this is the case? because you have limited pralines?

[vale jay]

Praline can be damage checked easier.

[fiery geode]

i don't think this is a fair assessment @vale jay

maybe i'm reading too much into it but it sounds like you just had a bad experience where you had players get rune gapped hard

MST is a tough def. there is no easy answer. there is no safe answer that doesn't require good runes

players getting damage checked using praline will be getting losses with practically any other comp

[vale jay]

I certainly may be scarred from my CV days but I was getting damage checked on MST myself when running praline

I ended up resorting to TQ myself and we gave up on praline because even better runed players where catching loses with praline being damage checked

[tired hollow]

bethony wasn't killing triana?

[vale jay]

We didn't really have bethonies FWIW

It probably is super safe with bethony

Silly monste

Monster

Yeah I redact my statement upon further thought
It's Bethony
Carry on @meager mauve

[meager mauve]

I moved to a G3 guild this season, and it's really kicking my butt.

1.) used a comp I've been asked to not disclose.

2.) Fun Jaara target. No Speed lead. Killed Byung first then Julianne.

3.) Pretty good Lushen target. I had Lushen on +light and +water to ensure I could kill Chandra and Craig.

4.) I attempted another Lushen, but this one was built to be a trap. Everything was on -wind and extremely tanky.

5.) This loss was a dumb move. Don't blind cleave Cichlid. Lesson learned.

6.) This seemed pretty doable. The only problem was that Amelia got def broken at one point and Byung procced a few times. But she was tanky enough that she survived.

7.) This was an interesting comp to hit, and I basically just threw my bruiser runes from Tesa on Ethna to make this work. I think I should have focused Han first instead of the Dark dragon warrior, but I still did fine.

8.) This comp is pretty strong. I used it here because I felt like this was going to be an easy enough win. I do need to adjust the runes on this comp a little bit though. I need to ensure that my Angela can survive hits.

9.) This was an honest mistake. I was quickly going through a tower and I saw Nana but believed it was Kiki instead. Never Belial a Nana. I will make sure to click on the monster next time instead of making assumptions.

10.) This one I think I was just rune gapped. Although Aaliyah and Vela did get stunned 3 times in a row. It's possible I got really unlucky. I think I might need to put this team on full will to make it the best it can be. Unfortunately I don't think I have the rune depth for that right now.

Very disappointed in my performance this siege. However, we did go against some guilds that will be stronger than your average G2-low G3 guild.

[north zenith]

8-might be a hot take but I kind of think this is a waste of a leo and shahat? Doesn't double wind + groggo take this pretty well?

[vale jay]

No the defense is easy, you're right, tractor windy groggo wins most likely, but he is playing severely rune gapped as well

Better to use premiums than to not use them

[vale jay]

Ok let me review a bit

4 we talked about. You can blind miri weaker guilds. Don't do it into stronger ones
5 you already learned your lesson
6 is probably fine. Haven't thought too much about this defense but it seems alright
7 we talked about, fine
8 is fine
9 & 10 - both of the ld shadow casters very hard to bruiser. I don't think I'd try

Welcome to your first siege where both opponents aren't total food. It's better if you want to improve to feed your brains out in g3 than to sit in g1.

[tired hollow]

isn't miri usually paired with teon? i don't think dova is any better than teon with a miri

[north zenith]

higher base speed

[tired hollow]

you don't need higher base spd since miri is already moving first and spd buffing- and i think teon is more useful after the t1 cleave. not saying it makes the diff here if the whole defense is trapped, but just asking scarlet to make sure

[north zenith]

oh you're talking about the clean up

I guess you could argue the revive is more useful than Dova if you know for sure you can win the speed contest

[tired hollow]

dova isn't thee speed contester, miri is

[north zenith]

oh thats a good point, would like to know if theres a difference in this case too^

[meager mauve]

My guess is that Miri isn't doing ATB boost, so you'd need even more speed on Teon to tune her to move after Miri. The higher base speed makes it easier to reach the required speed.

[vale jay]

but i'm also not a miri owner

so

@fiery geode is also not a miri owner but probably knows

[fiery geode]

That sounds right

But it also sounds reasonable that your 2nd fastest swift set on teon may not be fast enough to be tuned, even with spd increasing artis

[meager mauve]

Random question.

I'm not quite sure I understand why Res must be 100% or nothing.

I get the idea that if you can't get the Res you want, then don't get it at all and invest in other stats.

What I don't get is why, for example, 90% resistance is considered as ineffective as base resistance.

It's higher than the 85% accuracy recommended for anything that needs high acc. Are we attempting to build 100 res for 100 acc builds?

[dire lake]

because things that are going to want acc will more than likely have 85%, meaning that the only way to have the lowest of being debuffed is the default 15% chance which needs 100% res

[meager mauve]

This is where I'm confused. I don't quite understand the 15% chance thing. Is that just added on to 85%? And why? If you have some monster with 0% accuracy that tries to debuff a monster with 100% res, does that mean the 0% accuracy still has a chance to hit?

[dire lake]

there is almost always an inhertant 15% chance to land debuffs

[coarse valve]

max(15, resist - accuracy)

This is how 15% chance is calculated

This is also why u want 85% acc since more than that is "wasted"

[meager mauve]

Oh! I never knew there was a formula. That explains a lot. Thank you!

[fiery geode]

No this reasoning is not correct

Res being all or nothing is just an efficiency thing

Every next point of res is effectively worth more than the last

The easiest way to understand this is to think about a more extreme scenario, like let’s say you have 98% res against a 0% acc monster. That 0% acc monster has a 2% chance of landing debuff on you

Now if you get just a single res more for 99%, you’ve effectively reduced the enemy’s chance to debuff you by half

I know we often talk about runing monsters with max acc, but realistically most monsters are not runed with 85 acc

This is especially true for most bruisers in the game, like just think about the average carc, triana, vigor, Theo

You will never see these monsters runed with 85 acc

They will always have some acc

But not max

So if you rune your monsters with just “some res” that effectively does nothing against these bruisers with “some acc”

Might as well just get no res at all

But go for max res and you will be resisting a noticeable amount of debuffs from these bruisers

[meager mauve]

So I thought I remembered reading somewhere that a monster with 100 res cannot be debuffed by a monster with 0 acc. Is that accurate?

Or does the 0 acc mon still have a small chance to hit because of the innate 15% chance?

[fiery geode]

A monster with 100 res cannot be debuffed by a monster with 0 acc

The innate 15% chance is an innate resist chance, not innate chance to land debuffs

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

1.) Bastet was on a faster Swift set. Just outruned. Gemini isn't on my fastest swift set though, so I probably could have won this if I had tuned it to my fastest set instead of the set I have now. (I think 3rd?)

2.) I think this comp is actually not great. Tesa nearly killed Yeonhwa. Probably better to attempt something like a Bolverk instead.

3.) Easy double snipe. Just kill everything but Lulu.

4.) Just threw -light on everything and made sure I had sustain. The dots also helped kill things pretty quick.

5.) Just revived through the Sonia kills. Worked really well actually.

6.) Lesson learned, this comp does not work into Cami. I completely forgot she will cleanse the def break. Cami 1v3'd because she hit Jaara first.

7.) I think this comp is risky, but I couldn't think of any cleaves I could do that would be able to beat a swift Iris. The idea behind this was immunity + cleansing so that the only person carc could hit was Windy, and Smicer bombs couldn't affect anything. Worked pretty well, but I also made sure to put everything on -fire.

8.) This might be a little risky, but Rina basically tanked everything forever. I think the odds of losing this are pretty low.

9.) Tech I've been asked not to disclose.

10.) I do not know what I was thinking. I just didn't use my brain here. Dumbest possible comp I could take. Seriously stupid.

[vale jay]

I think your yeonhwa sucks

That's probably the main issue

[meager mauve]

I dunno, because the problem is her damage reduction is gone against a tesa. She had 100 res but tesa can still land oblivion. Then she's taking increased damage from tesa and not reducing the damage by much. And if she misses the ATK break it's just kind of joever.

[vale jay]

Yeonhwa is still a good tesa tank even when oblivioned

You can get unlucky and miss atk break for sure though

[meager mauve]

I feel like it's better than any other option I could think of, but I still get nervous because missing ATK break and Tesa landing oblivion means she's just any other wind monster at that point.

Though I suppose any other wind tank will have that same problem, so it's probably the best bet.

[meager mauve]

Siege hits from today.

1.) Don't Lushen Triana. Lesson learned.

2.) Standard hit with this tech.

3.) I've tested this offense for several hours into this defense and I can't make it lose unless Carc and Driller vio proc multiple times while Mi Ying doesn't have counter and is def broken by Carc. Even then, Mi Ying passive helps him survive for a long time.

4.) Fun comp for Jaara. No speed lead so it is doable.

5.) Not the safest thing, and I had to be really careful when piloting not to transform Helena when Theo was about to take a turn. Otherwise, worked out alright.

6.) I had info on this hit. I watched someone else Lushen it without Mirinae and they got everything down to 1 HP. I knew Miri would win it.

7.) Probably not the best hit in the world, but seems safe enough. Leo limits the Narsha damage slightly, and Shahat also helps prevent some abilities from going through. The funny part is that Narsha ended up killing herself on Angela's shield.

8.) Another Miri hit. I figured this could be safe enough as long as I went + damage to Light. Worked very well.

9.) Honestly I think this was just being completely unlucky. Tetra got hit with Cichlid S3, Danu then targeted her, vio procced, targeted again, and then MY vio procced to get her really low. I did cleanse and get a turn with Tetra, but no vio proc, so she ended up dying to the next Danu hits. Danu landed the stun every single turn. If he had missed stun just once, I win this hit no problem.

10.) I didn't really see how this could lose other than some insane vio procs from Iris. Kahli moves first to snipe Triana, then Bethony snipes Suiki.

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

First 5 were honestly all just terrible defenses. All the same element, vulnerable to multiple cleaves, etc. Only one worth thinking about was 3, and even then it was just miri lushen and win.

6.) I should have put Julie on +dark. Nephtys lived. Perna then procced 4 times in a row to kill Bernard and Julie.

7.) Seemed easy enough. Put Tesa on -fire and there isn't too huge a threat.

8.) I thought Bolverk would work here since I had Amelia for constant immunity. Unfortunately Clara vio procced a few times, as did Verad and they turn cycled enough to keep bolverk frozen.

9.) FY really seemed like the only real threat. Simple enough to just run this offense into it.

10.) Fun cleave. Probably my favorite comp to run currently.

[vale jay]

There's not enough buffs being provided really for bolverk to do much in 8R i feel

[vale jay]

@hardy plank

[hardy plank]

[meager mauve]

Random question about res that I am still confused about. We say 85% accuracy is max because of the 15% innate chance to resist. Wouldnt that mean that at 85% accuracy you only have a 70% chance? Wouldnt 100% put you at 85% after the innate res chance?

[coarse valve]

You mean 100% acc?

If you have 100 acc and the opponent has 100% res

Then the function would be: max(15,100-100)

Since 15 is bigger than 0 its a 15% chance to resist

But if u had 85% acc and the opponent has 100% res its : max(15,100-85)

Here it's max(15,15)

Here the chance to resist is still 15%

[meager mauve]

Ah. I figured it was a math question. That makes sense. Thank you very much.

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

1.) They were all 3 on swift. Not much to do. Rune gapped.

2.) I thought this should work okay. Nana and Triana prevent Carc from dying and he can take out Odin and Khmun through shield. Worked pretty well.

3.) Just ran Jaara here because I just needed high damage to kill Ashour before Woosa shield. Worked fine.

4.) Seemed like a fine place to Lushen. Only Chiwu really had a chance to live.

5.) I thought Belial would work here. No def breaks, so the def is just bad anyway.

6.) I've used Bolverk into this exact comp in Siege. Kill Sav twice and this is pretty easy.

7.) Jaara worked well here. No revive for Odin, and Tesa sniped because no passive.

8.) Really silly. Just pick a fire DD with destroy and I win this easy. Only single target def breaks on fire mons so yeonhwa pretty much wouldn't die with tetra.

9.) I can't tell if Julie is a bad pick here. Seems fine because of the multihits for Laika and Moore but I think this was runed poorly. Better mons probably survive.

10.) No def breaks and basically no damage. This defense is so bad I can just throw almost anything at it and it will work.

[fiery geode]

2. i prefer elucia over nana. this def has continuous threat and it's not like you survive the initial nuke and you win

8. Make it even easier and just double snipe it

I’m concerned that you still rarely use double snipe

I average more than 1 double snipe comp per wgb sword, it’s always the first or second comp i think about using

9. Julie is fine

[hardy plank]

1: I’m pretty sure you can do something with Juno tractor which will borderline auto this defense
3. Mirroring what jx said here it’s pretty easy to double snipe/swift offense this in a safe manner. Consistency is important

[meager mauve]

Two problems that mean I double snipe so little. First, I have only tuned my snipers to my fastest swift, not my 2nd fastest. And in a few instances it causes my booster to move second.

Second issue is all my snipers are only on 75% cr. None on 100, so I can't use any booster that doesn't provide CR.

I'm not sure how to handle that particular scenario.

[vale jay]

#1 is just use second fastest swift, i've done it on your account, you'll be ok

#2 is fine, just use praline then for now

(also you only need 70%)

[meager mauve]

That's what I meant. Hahaha

[vale jay]

Oh I just realized what you meant

So part of the reason I think jx is averaging more also is you don't have Sonia Tirsa or rigna so your speed scaling double snipes aren't there

But I do think you could use Megan or bastet too (there's a lot of double snipe food in your WGB)

Again not having it set up, I get it

But it's worth doing to simplify

[fiery geode]

you should be using praline cov kahli like every single set

i dont understand what you mean by the first part, like your cov kahli are faster than your praline on a secondary swift set?

thats kind of insane

[meager mauve]

Yeah. I attempted to set this up and (granted it was in game swop) the fastest I could get Praline is 318 cmb speed and my Kahli is 325.

I probably need to run some actual swop to find it.

[fiery geode]

oh you're using kahli as a booster for another team. that doesn't work anyway you can't use a 325 spd kahli as a nuker in a double snipe team

make another kahli or i'm sure you have some other sniper

[vale jay]

Keep in mind jayke has bethony too

multiple

and mirinae

post box @meager mauve

ill pin it

[meager mauve]

Yeah. I did actually attempt to set Kahli up as both a leah booster and a sniper. Better to have them separate for that.

[meager mauve]

Sure thing.

[vale jay]

he also has 2 leahs.

[meager mauve]

Missing the Dragonuv and the Icares that were just pulled.

[meager mauve]

This is going to be a lot, but I just now got the chance to sit down and do these:

Siege was a disaster this go around. I played terribly and lost in several instances where I could have easily won if I just took a few more seconds to think.

1.) Seemed like a pretty easy hit. Sav could vio proc a ton and kill Aaliyah, but I felt like it was a pretty safe bet once Aaliyah takes a turn.

2.) Belial into Chandra Byung is usually pretty good. Fermion doesn't pose much of a threat to my mons either.

3.) This hit I had knowledge about. I knew exactly how much hp that Byungchul had. When I went in, I accidentally selected the wrong left side arti for Lushen. I had been filtering by defense earlier for a specific artifact for FY and I failed to change that for Lushen. Byung survived with 1 health.

4.) I love hitting this comp with Jaara. The funniest part of this hit was that Laika was not defense broken, and Nana was, so I hit Nana with S2, which was a one-shot, and then I hit Laika with S1 (Byung was not def broken) and Laika also died in one shot.

5.) This loss I think I completely misread this comp. If I had run -damage from wind, I think I would have been fine here. I thought Ongyouki was the problem but I think Savannah was worse. Maybe this was just a bad Bolverk candidate.

6.) I had knowledge on this comp and this time I selected the right arti on Lushen.

7.) Honestly I don't know if I can Lushen this after looking at it. Louise lead makes them all super tanky and HP is how you defeat Lushens. Probably better to run a double snipe comp and kill Odin twice.

8.) Pretty easy Julie. Only nana was on will and survived. She couldn't 1v3

9.) Used some tech here that worked well. I had scouted the Chandra for Swift.

10.) I was rushing to get hits in before the end of siege, but both Ashour survived and Byung survived. I hit Ashour with Cov and Byung with Bethony. They did have Shield runes so that might be why they lived.

As embarassing as it is to say I went 6/4, that's the state of things. Real life stuff did get in the way too.

WGB hits:

1.) Basically just treated it like Cov/Elad/Miles. Took a while, but it's crazy safe.

2.) Seemed like a fine Lushen candidate. Went +damage to Light to ensure that Nigong couldn't revive anyone.

3.) 2 Wind I felt like I could funnel it all into Rina. I killed Valantis first so that all damage went on Rina. She tanked everything really well.

4.) I took the suggestion from jx9 and ran Cov/Elucia/Triana this time. Worked really well actually. Cov sniped Odin twice, and then I slept Khmun until he was the only one left. Very clean.

5.) Jaara did lots of work here. Hard counters this defense.

6.) I should have been more careful about This. I did win it, but only because they were slow. I forgot that Taranys can revive immediately after being revived himself.

7.) Standard hit with a well studied comp.

8.) Thought this would be a good bolverk. It got slightly scary because Perna vio procced 4 times and got windy low, but it all worked out.

9.) This was just supremely unlucky. Gemini missed def breaks, and then Sigrid's S3 made everyone focus Ophilia. I couldn't kill Odin and it was over.

10.) I did not read Han's skills. Admittedly I was just rushing to finish because of real life stuff, so I just picked Leo and sent it, assuming that han would be the same as the other ninjas and scale off of attack speed. They just took infinity turns and I just watched Shahat die like an idiot. Lesson learned.

[vale jay]

Why don't you Leo 5R

Way better

[meager mauve]

Because jaara go brrrrrr?

[atomic mirage]

Damn scarlet

When will u start coaching my siege too

[vale jay]

You don't need my help

[atomic mirage]

[vale jay]

Leo is safer for sure though right

[atomic mirage]

Send MY

[vale jay]

Don't give troll advice please

[atomic mirage]

Cant y MY Draco +1 that

Chris for example

Am i missing sth

[vale jay]

Into Nana Masha savannah?

[atomic mirage]

Nah into the odin def

[vale jay]

Jayke will get damage checked

[atomic mirage]

Rip

I lost to a 4x proc on craig odin def last siege too

[vale jay]

I thought you were saying into Nana Masha savannah I was like what the heck

[atomic mirage]

I cant say much

[atomic mirage]

Nuh uh i aint that dumb anymore

[vale jay]

Yeah mihyang draco Chris is probably fine but overcomplicated

Also not super sure if he has Chris or not

I'm on mobile and not sure how to check pins

Neat idea

[atomic mirage]

I see he got 0 chris hut 3 bethonies

Op,asl

[fiery geode]

since when did he get 3 miris and 2 dovas too wtf

[meager mauve]

Tap the thread name, it should bring up a menu where one of the options is pins.

[vale jay]

That's why I keep yelling at him to use mirinae

Cleaving warrior

Why do I have to go under options for pins

[meager mauve]

And yet despite the miri's I'm still failing. 😦

Just goes to show units don't make the player.

[vale jay]

You are slow and your runes suck

But you also need artifacts

And violent runes

[meager mauve]

and destroy runes

[vale jay]

Welcome to Summoner's War

[meager mauve]

oh and more grinds

[vale jay]

Yep

Welcome aboard matey

Do the @void jay method

Don't grind shitty runes

Just farm 6-7 months and get new op runes

Surely that's the way right

All we need now is to get you a sponsor so you can hit the giant

[atomic mirage]

[hardy plank]

just popping in to give some wisdom

Basically the only thing byung really offers on defense is protection against (basic) cleaves

You really shouldn’t be blind cleaving byung defenses

[vale jay]

https://tenor.com/view/write-that-down-taking-notes-school-universities-university-gif-17937210

[meager mauve]

Sorry, but I don't know the difference between a "basic" cleave and a "not basic" cleave.

Can you explain what you're referring to?

[hardy plank]

Basic as in easy bake lushen/tiana/praline/julie style offenses

More advanced cleaves are things like Chandra or a lot of the Adriana offenses

[coarse valve]

Is it advanced in terms of runes aswell or just execution?

[vale jay]

It is much more taxing on runes

It's fucking hard to rune Adriana stuff in comparison to praline/bastet/whatever, same with chandra

[hardy plank]

I mean they’re not one size fits all offenses

They’re a lot more custom

[hardy plank]

@meager mauve basically there’s two type of cleave offenses

General cleaves which are one size fits all

And more custom built for this one thing offenses

Byung is really good into most preset cleaves but really struggles versus most sentient offenses

[finite terrace]

Whats an example of a chandra cleave?

[hardy plank]

Chandra Kahli Sonia was an old one of mine

Chandra buffer nuker is the basic format

[finite terrace]

Whats it used against? U snipe one threat, then tank the other 2?

[hardy plank]

Now? Basically nothing bc the defenses it farmed died

But it used to fight stuff that had no speed lead

Praline killed that meta off

[atomic mirage]

senpai give me some siege wisdom too

[meager mauve]

My Siege results this time around have me quite sad.

1.) I've used this counter before into this comp, just without Kunite. It lost. I put Kunite in this time and it was much safer.

2.) I've used this comp before. Works well.

3.) Free Lushen.

4.) Jaara works well here and killed both Nana and Byung before they could even move.

5.) I've used this comp into this defense multiple times. Moore managed to land a despair stun every single turn he took. Lulu moved one time and then died while stunned. If XF had vio procced even one more time, or if Moore had missed a single despair stun, i woudl have won this one.

6.) I Lushened this one and forgot that Grego has damage reduction passive. I thought it was just a damage increase. Completely forgot. Still won it because the Grego was runed so poorly. I will remember for next time that you can't Lushen this safely.

7.) Tech into this can't be shared. Worked just fine though.

8.) Free Lushen. I had info from a guildmate on how fast they were. I knew I could beat it with Teon.

9.) I saw this defense and immediately realized there's just 1 def break. As long as that's isolated, Tesa and Racuni won't be hit. Worked like I thought. Maybe loses a destroy battle, but there wasn't destroy on this defense.

10.) Minato lived with exactly 1 HP. Otherwise this was a free win. Seara was half health after Julie. Bernard + Gally or Bernard + Julie cleans that up easily.

8-2 is not the result I'm looking for. I'm getting really frustrated by my inability to secure a 10-0 on any siege.

[hardy plank]

10 you can definitely do something with rina here. Not having cami makes this a little sad bc you get less control but you should be able to cleanly funnel this defense

8 I would strongly advise using a unit other than Tesa here

You’re racing a defense that can feasibly have 3 destroy units and a lot of heals

With a unit who doesn’t present a very fast clock

And doesn’t destroy very fast

Tesa kinda needs to vio at the right time to really work there

Otherwise you can just get your windy eaten

[meager mauve]

I considered Carc, but thought that it was too risky because if the Byung and Nigong used S2 on him, Ashour might attack him because he's got such low health.

[hardy plank]

Carc is even worse than Tesa

Because he only does thing every other then

*turn

And missing a defense break basically wastes those turns

You want something that’s burning down their max hp

And fast

Granted given there’s only one defense break