Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[fiery geode]

if you lose its going to be because orion does orion things and they proc enough to kill something

no one will be building this def to survive an atk buffed bomb, plus you have plenty of fluff dmg

[vale jay]

I'm concerned more about jayke specifically here

If you or I was hitting this OK fair

Because I've seen guildies in CV get damage checked

Can we see both builds maybe

Before we pass any judgement

Like specific concern because I have just spent too much time playing this level of siege

Helping people with accounts like this

I'm sure especially on 205 it's fine

But I'm paranoid after what I've seen

[meager mauve]

Sure. Once I build the Malaka I'll show the whole team so you can gauge its stats properly.

[meager mauve]

Siege this time around was strange. I saw a lot of defenses that I considered really crappy. No defense breaks, no way to survive easy cleaves, and I know I outruned a few hits.

1.) I thought this might work here. Dias tanks TL, Hraes is never hit, and Rina tanks Chandra + Byung. Unfortunately didn't work that way. Dias got def broken and died, and then I lost. I think this team really doesn't work the way I think it does.

2.) Seemed like a really safe comp. Not sure how I can really lose it since Savannah and Rakan will just attack Malite forever. Racuni cleanses taunts. Could maybe even be improved by running Windy instead.

3.) I thought this was a good comp. Byung/Tesa to counter the enemy Byung, Tetra to cleanse Nora. I didn't think this was a great defense though because no def break.

4.) Unfortunately, I got cut on this one. Praline moved, then Moore moved, absorbing ATB. After that, FY moved and it was over. I felt like it could have worked if my Cov and Taru were better tuned. Cov snipes Rakan, Taru snipes FY, and then they clean up Moore.

5.) I thought about this for a bit, then realized this looks a lot like Carc/Vigor/Triana. As long as I focused Moore and killed him first, TWL seemed like it would work. The only sustain is Byung S2, which means that Tractor and Lulu just have to survive Miles. Seemed to be relatively effective.

6.) Meme defense. Used to tag a tower full of it. Used this offense before to great success.

7.) I went into this one knowing that I had this guy outruned. I am not entirely sure this is a bad comp, but I think it isn't a super safe comp. I also knew that there wasn't a def break, just branding. I think it would have been safter to run a Shamann instead so that Leo wouldn't be at risk.

8.) Raced with Bernard and won. Pretty simple Julie food without Will.

9.) The Clara outsped my fastest swift set. Can't really do much about that. Guildmate hit this afterwards and he had +20 more speed and won it, so just rune diffed. Easy Lushen food though.

10.) I think this offense kind of works, but I know that I'm going to be told it's bad. I liked the high health, the cleansing from Triana, the forced Jultan targeting for Mihyang, the no counter attacks from Skogul S2, and Triana protecting Jultan from death.

If I had Mirinae/Dova/Lushen I'd Lushen it instead.

[vale jay]

for 10

if you wanna bruiser

two routes

#1 kunite windy tetra. this is tough-ish to build to be truly effective but if you can at least do a cdmg windy on 239 (doesnt need to be super tanky - just a bit) it should work fine.

#2 - tractor windy tetra. this is also fine and arguably 98%s into this with perfect piloting but that's extremely challenging and requires 286 tractor, windy and tetra

also what the fuck you have helena???

why do you never use jeanne leo helena? O_O

i never see you haegang rica either

with haegang rica nora i feel like you should do a bit more searching for defenses that lose to this

we should be utilizing our premiums

also ayaya doesnt need anything special

she's amazing on her own, you know

you can and should build her

fix your tuning on praline

holy shit #5 is extremely brave

you can never use windy s2, you know this right? im just making sure

#7 is not good at all yeah

@meager mauve

can we get the helena set up

you can spam that shit into beast rider stuff especially

if nothing else
helena is goated fire tank

I would just

this cat bat defense

just julie it every time honestly

if you don't have two julies unlucky though

lemme see

i think we had something else too i came up with

nah i got nothing actually, we just julied it

i would NOT dova 10

you're racing on disadvantage

this defense is still tricky honestly

especially post ai buff >_<

there's some offenses outside of your rune reach

there's also some briand angles but

we won't worry too much about those since

we have enough to build

[meager mauve]

I have no idea what this is used for. Don't know the comp, never heard of it.

[meager mauve]

No speed for the Dotters. Can't even get them to stable 239 without losing a bunch of stats.

[meager mauve]

Sounds good. I don't know anything about this comp. Not even a little. Can you help me understand how it works and what I need to build?

[meager mauve]

I don't really know who I would use her with. I don't have FY/Vela which I hear is a pretty standard comp.

The reason I haven't built any premiums is mostly because I haven't seen a specific need for them because I don't really know how to use them properly. I've been reading and following Beginner PvP exclusively, so I'm completely unaware of how to use Helena, Aaliyah, etc.

It's also partially because I don't think too much about how to use them, because I just assume most of my premium mons suck. For example, Ariel. hahaha

Or Karnal or Carlos or Fire Indra or Water Hacker, etc.

[vale jay]

Aaliyah is broken as fuck

Ariel does not suck

Ariel is fine

It's a bit dated nowadays but for awhile I used to run Ariel cami belial

Into some defs

Like with aaliyah

If she's sitting there getting hit

She is constantly spamming s4

It's nuts

That unit is not normal

[vale jay]

Despair will 239

It's not great but you can try it

Or if you can't do despair you can go swift lmao

In all seriousness I get the struggle

Jeanne Leo Helena basically like

Helena + Leo is cracked

[meager mauve]

Hmmm

You mind if I take some time to figure out how it works myself?

[vale jay]

Sure if you want

It's up to you

[meager mauve]

I need to start learning to play. I can't just constantly ask you and other guides to play for me. Hahaha

[vale jay]

That's not really what you're doing

This is a specific team

I have never had it myself

I've piloted it a few times for guild

But I don't own helena

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... I guess I feel more like "I'm not really thinking of these things myself. I should be able to do that at some point"

Why haven't I thought up Helena + Leo?

Partially, experience. Partially, I have been focusing on beginner PvP. But part of it has to be my skill.

[vale jay]

Pioneering teams is not something necessary to be a good siege player

[meager mauve]

It's not? I feel like that seems like a crucial skill.

Or my perception currently is that good siege players can think of good comps for some scenarios.

[vale jay]

It takes a long time

Sometimes just piloting well is good

[meager mauve]

And that if you're just building a bunch of dupes and moving runes, that isn't as much "skill" as it is just using your resources.

[meager mauve]

I suppose so, but isn't the point of building good comps that you reach 99% winrate with them? If you have to pilot them super well, doesn't that indicate the comp isn't well-suited for the defense?

[vale jay]

99% is too high

Honestly

When you are starting out

I dunno

Some people disagree

But if you shoot for like 90 winrate avg

I feel that's good to start

When I set the expectations there

That's a good place to begin

But yeah JLH is great against ld bullshit

[meager mauve]

Okay I just finished reading through Helena's skills. I believe I understand why it is so good, but I am not sure I understand why it works into monsters that aren't water.

Helena boosts her atb every turn as horsie, which means she basically gets more turns with Leo than normal.

And as human, she can def break. Also cool. But I don't see how those two help Jeanne other than Helena can create a shield for her so she doesn't have to use invincibility.

Leo just makes it so you can't get lapped until he dies. Helena makes it so she can lap through a leo. But what does Jeanne do in the comp?

Plus, I'm confused about how to build Helena. Am I supposed to ignore her passive in human form, or am I supposed to give her 100 CR as well as make her tanky?

Oh wait! I just reread Helena passive!

She gains ATK with max HP, so if you build her tanky and give her 100 CR, she'll deal damage AND tank, AND get tons of turns with Leo. Jeanne can taunt and give invincibility. If you build it right, Helena could move 2 or 3 times before they move again.

Basically build her like Khmun and she's a crazy good unit in that comp.

[vale jay]

Yeah just 100 crate, some accuracy, high hp, tanky

It slays

[meager mauve]

Wow. I really need that comp. I can even build her with 0 speed because Leo.

Put it all into fat stats.

Okay, moving Helena to #2. Need to finish Shren.

Thank you for the advice, as always Therion. Very kind of you.

[vale jay]

Np ask any time you get new units too

Just ask

I'm here to help

I literally used to ask any time I got something new

Hello jx9 please

Can you tell me

Does water hell lady get used in siege

[haughty siren]

Can use into shartina triana xD

With light tank

If it's on 5 star tower for some reason or on AD

[meager mauve]

Recently pulled a Jade. Not really sure if she's useful in Siege or not, but she seems kind of like a Wind Chandra.

[vale jay]

she's decent but i wouldn't worry too much about her

[meager mauve]

1.) I have not fought against a Kumar in this comp, the one I've seen most commonly used is Liu Mei. I figured Rina could tank Byung, Tesa/Byung can do all the damage. Focused Sylvia first and then Byung.

[vale jay]

what if kumar oblivions byungchul

your only cleanse is rina s2

[meager mauve]

2.) I think I believed that my Imesety would be faster here, but the Conrad was on swift and Theo killed my Dozer with 3 vio procs.

[vale jay]

#2 i'm gonna be honest i would just fucking tiana and send it with liesel i think

wait swift violent theomars?

[meager mauve]

Sorry woops. hahahaha

[vale jay]

nah in all seriousness though

it's probably not safe

because if you miss

you can get screwed by conrad

[meager mauve]

Theo was faster than my Imesety on Vio.

But Imesety is on 3rd or 4th Swift set.

[meager mauve]

You gotta bear with me. Just had our second baby and I'm on no sleep. XD

[vale jay]

he has lead

from conrad

[vale jay]

understandable

i feel like

3r

is just an awful defense

you have juno right

just juno +2 this

im gonna be honest

[meager mauve]

I do have Juno, but I thought just sniping would be faster and easier.

[vale jay]

juno could probably solo this

with vamp runes

but

don't do that

i think you just do juno and keep hitting nora

angela and woosa both do nothing

[meager mauve]

Plus I knew that Cov hits through shield, which runes Angela's entire passive.

[vale jay]

that's his s1

not his s3

double snipe is fine too

i'm just thinking about it from the perspective of

can we use praline somewhere else

[meager mauve]

I wasn't sure, honestly. The final two were MUCH easier without Praline.

4.) Honestly just viewed this as "make Chacha tank and Theo deal damage"

I forgot though that with def break, Eshir will focus someone other than Chacha.

I got lucky I think. My guild came up with a fun Dark Ciri comp using Mihyang, Fire Blacksmith, Dark Racuni (forgot their names)

You snipe Ciri with Mihyang. I might try that comp out soon.

[vale jay]

i think tractor windy tetra is fine here for 4R

but

yeah unfortunately orion def break retarget

you can lose

[meager mauve]

I considered that, but I also thought that Dark Ciri could probably kill if Orion def breaks Lulu.

[vale jay]

do not use this comp

you do not have the runes

trust me

i cannot rune this offense well.

[meager mauve]

5.) Really easy. Just pick a wind tank and then Carc + Racuni.

[vale jay]

yeah 5 is fine

[meager mauve]

It's just a bad defense because all wind.

6.) I liked this idea, and I felt alright putting Malite in because no ATK buff for Seara bombs.

7.) Jultan to tank Berghild seemed pretty reasonable, and I figured that if he was def broken, Mihyang could S2 him and kill herself, which happened.

Also since no def breaks on anyone else, I just needed to bring a steady healer/cleanser. Tetra/Racuni were fine I think.

8.) My Windy is so poorly runed. He died to Carc. Shouldn't ever happen. I need to rebuild him.

[haughty siren]

you are still taking julie into tanky stuff that will live her

you are not killing a single of enemy mons

[meager mauve]

I will admit that I thought "Zen is typically on Swift, so he's probably squishy"

[haughty siren]

he is wind

[meager mauve]

Yeah, I made the dumb assumption that my Julie + Gally def break would be strong enough to kill a squishy wind unit.

[haughty siren]

i think you have taken julie into chandra in the past and was told the same

[meager mauve]

You are right. I have. I need to figure out how to stop doing it.

As in, write it down and make sure I read "Don't Julie Chandra" before attempting to julie anything.

First two questions I ask. I will not do this again.

Because I've done this more than just twice too. If I am not learning, I'll just read it until i do.

[haughty siren]

ok found it, i mean you can still julie chandra def, if you are sure you can kill the other 2, but you can't here

[meager mauve]

Yep. Very poor choice. I'm going to learn this time.

Not going to listen to the voice in the back of my head that says "just 3v1 chandra"

10.) Seemed like a decent enough Lushen candidate, but I'm not certain. Betta lived with 1 hp and Skogul got S2 off.

[haughty siren]

it's still 3 vs 3 here after julie moves so yes, the voice was wrong

[meager mauve]

Also going to set a mental rule that I should assume Julie will not kill wind monsters.

[meager mauve]

@vale jay Questions about the Jeanne/Leo/Helena comp:

Should Jeanne stay off Vio to prevent proccing out of invincibility?

Is it better for this comp to put Leo on Vamp or Vio? Does it matter? What kind of stats am I looking for? Tanky or hybrid?

Should I attempt to get Helena to 100 res with Jeanne lead, or is that not necessary?

Is there ever a time where I'd want to use Leo lead instead of Jeanne?

[vale jay]

You want violent on Helena and Jeanne!

I think you pretty much always take Jeanne lead

Sometimes Vio leo is a decent choice but for the most part just tanky Leo works. 100 res double will shield

[meager mauve]

Finally, I'm thinking about comps I would want to look at hitting with this comp. Here's the things I'm thinking, please let me know if I'm on the right track:

Beast Rider teams

Miles teams?

Elsharions?

Swift teams that attempt to trap Julies/Lushens?

[meager mauve]

@vale jay see above (sorry, forgot to add these to the list of questions earlier)

[vale jay]

You gotta provide specifics

I think that when I see beast rider stuff usually its not a bad idea

Don't bring it into cleanse/immunity

[meager mauve]

Okay, some example teams I've seen:

Nana, Perna, Savannah/Xiana

Carc, Miles, Triana

Chandra, Zen, Perna/Tesarion

[vale jay]

Not carcano

Carcano is scary

It's a bit less good when there is a water unit but it's still fine

[meager mauve]

Ah, now that I think about it, that seems obvious. Carc hits through invincibility and can def break and kill leo.

[vale jay]

It's just scary

[meager mauve]

Okay, I have a feeling Verad isn't used in Siege, but I just summoned him so I am curious.

[meager mauve]

This is really random, but man did it make me feel good. Guildmates are wondering how to hit a Moore Savannah Rakan defense and they posted this:

Feels good to know that I'm actually building comps good enough to be used as examples, especially since I'm completely F2P

[meager mauve]

I would like some advice on my SWC2024 scroll picks. Here's what I'm thinking of doing:

I have a hard time deciding for the following:

Laika or Perna
Feng Yan or Louise (for Haegang comps)
Tien Lang or Akroma

The rest are all pretty simple as they're great picks and I can use them immediately.

[autumn crystal]

Assuming you saw this? #1049886722831429672 message

[lapis pecan]

jx9

[Message Link](#1049886722831429672 message) to #1049886722831429672
SWC 2024 Scroll Recommendations

Req. by sokkermax. Quote from · Sep 18, 2024, 4:11 AM

[meager mauve]

I did see this. I want to ask specifically for a couple of comps I want to build though, since monsters are for comps, not just in general.

Louise I would need for a Haegang comp. Tien Lang I would use to build a defense with, Feng Yan I'd use in a couple of comp ideas. Perna I'd build a comp with, Laika I'd build for an attacking comp, and Akroma I'd build for another comp.

I kind of looked at these recommendations as "these are generally good because they can be used well in the areas you want to play". I didn't assume it was the be-all end all. I looked at it as "here's blind recommendations, but it's box-dependent."

[night berry]

Here mine

[fiery geode]

perna >>>>>>> laika

feng >>>>>>> louise

tian lang >>>>>>>> akroma

none of those choices are remotely close

[vale jay]

I would take nephtys over Nicki if I were you

It's up to you really but just taking ISA into consideration as well (which you should be doing - nephtys really does make a big difference in arena), well rounded unit for all content, I think she is probably #1 pick

[vale jay]

Goated

I do think this counter is a bit on the scary side

Cdmg Moore can eat you alive

But I'm sure it's fine

[meager mauve]

Thank you both. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear.

[meager mauve]

Unfortunately, Siege today was about as bad as it could get. We got promoted to G2 and immediately met another G3 guild that was basically all retired tournament accounts. They blue mapped us faster than I could get on, and I wasn't even able to finish all of my attacks.

[meager mauve]

Siege ended before I could use the rest of my attacks. The last 4 were just rushing to attempt to use all of my attacks.

1.) Windy to tank Carc, Tesa never dies to Cami, and Lulu cleanses/heals. Oblivioned Celia and then focused Carc first.

2.) No defense break on this team, and Carc hits through invincibility. Juno/Tetra help heal and cleanse so that Carc can kill everything. Because of no def break, Carc wasn't ever in danger.

3.) Seemed a pretty easy target for this particular offense. Barbara only has single target def break, and Seara will target Tetra. I put -DMG from Wind on Tetra and increase S3 recovery to ensure she could survive. Nora was the only one hitting Hraesvelg, and Tetra prevents Nora from perma-taunting my team. Focused Seara -> Barbara -> Nora.

4.) Like I said before, just started throwing attacks together to try and use them all before Seige ended. I've used Vritra into Danu before with good success, but in this instance, I should have brought either Dias or Jultan instead. Cichlid def broke Eshir and he died from Danu vio procs. Dias would have been better I think. I also don't have Cha Cha on 100 res, and Danu stunned Cha Cha so that she never revenge procced. One goal is to eventually get 100 res on Cha Cha

5.) I saw Mo Long + Molly and knew I could Dozer/Tractor this. Boost Bulldozer, one shot Molly, Mo Long hits Dozer, then Copper + Imesety kill Mo Long and Dominic easily.

6.) Had around 1 min, 30 seconds left in Siege, so I threw this at it. Honestly might have been able to win it if my runes were slightly higher quality and my Leo were tankier.

7.) Just threw a preset in and ran it. 30 seconds left in Siege. Does not work and I wouldn't run it if I weren't attempting to just use attacks.

I did have an attack that I wanted to run but didn't, and I'd like feedback on it too:

I did not run this, but I was debating on it. Priority would be to snipe Gapsoo and then save MHW for last since he never kills Malite.

I didn't have confidence in my Covenant's ability to one-shot the Gapsoo without ATK buff. But I thought it might be a good idea.

[fiery geode]

1. the dangerous thing that can happen is celia hits tesa > carc def breaks tesa since he is lowest hp > now tesa gets 3v1'ed

need windy double water

4. i dont know why you keep using eshir like this, he's not a tank

5. this is like the 5th time you still didn't think through copper/dozer

you can't copper dozer this

mo long is a stripper

after you kill molly mo can strip your buffs

[meager mauve]

I thought Mo Long always used S3 if there's a fire monster to hit with it. Crappy assumption on my part.

[fiery geode]

so you also thought that mo long can't vio proc as well?

[meager mauve]

I did not think that far. Also crappy assumption.

[fiery geode]

thats how you should be playing out every fight in your head

you play out the worst case scenario

every monster on the def procs, lands everything

or stuns everything

[meager mauve]

Okay. I will work harder on that. I struggle visualizing that.

[meager mauve]

Just pulled a Seara. Is she ever used on Siege offense, or is she kind of like Clara where she's exclusively a defense monster?

[fiery geode]

you can use her on offense as a wind bruiser

[meager mauve]

Alright. How do I know if a monster shouldn't be used on offense? Clara is one that I know for certain, but what things would make a monster worse on offense than on defense?

[fiery geode]

clara doesn't do anything special and the things she does do aren't reliable

i wouldn't worry too much about trying to label monsters as offense monsters or defense monsters

focus on knowing good specific counters to specific defs

and then understanding why its a good counter

which will allow you to extrapolate on that and make good similar counters to similar defs

[meager mauve]

This WGB I tried really hard to just imagine worst case scenarios. I focused exclusively on "What happens if they do this, even if unlikely"

1.) Seemed like a pretty easy Julie candidate. I should have used Julie lead instead of Gally lead.

2.) I think this was a rune diff, not a good Lushen candidate. Lulu and Praha might both be pretty tanky. Poorly chosen I think. If I were to go back and select a different offense, I'd probably do a Praline comp where I snipe Zerath and Praha, then 3v1 Lulu.

3.) I chose Helena to attempt to handle the damage output from Liam. Covenant was able to kill everything else. I made a piloting mistake though. I did not S3 Liam immediately, which I should have. Mo Long can't really kill Helena, even if he vio procs (I think?). I should have used S3 on Liam, then killed Racuni, then saved Mo Long for last.

4.) I thought about this one for a while. I came to the conclusion that Bulldozer/Copper should be okay as long as I killed Eladriel first to prevent strip or revive. Leo moves, then I would first boost Copper and S3 Eladriel. If Zaiross moves next, he can't increase cooldown time for Bulldozer since Bulldozer is on Will. If he does so on Copper and Imesety it doesn't matter. Then, Bulldozer S3 on Zaiross and Leo has to 1v3.

5.) This defense was just bad in my opinion. Vanessa would be the only monster hitting Byung/Triana, and her damage output is so low that the only way she kills anything is with 5-6 vio procs in a row after def breaking Triana, which seemed so low probability that it should be fine. Even then, I felt it could still be possible to win because both Kunite and Byung have their own forms of sustain and are pretty tanky, and since Byung would only be targeted by Vanessa, it seemed highly unlikely for this offense to lose no matter how I looked at it.

6.) I don't think I had any other choice. Julie this or lose. It's all speed based, and since all 3 can be on Swift, I had to use my fastest cleave.

7.) Super easy, just snipe Fire Yuji and then Abellio. Ophilia cannot 1v3 this comp.

8.) I wasn't sure what to think about this defense. Balegyr has no way to get more than 3 knowledge, and after he burns all of his knowledge in one attack, he's practically never using that skill again. Malite to tank MHW and Bale, and Theo for damage, as well as Lulu to heal.

9.) This one gave me the most trouble. All of the things I wanted to do I had already used monsters for. I wanted to Julie it, but I had to use Julie on 1R in this one. I wanted to use a snipe comp to just snipe Masha, but again, using it on the other round seemed better. Eventually I settled on Yeonhwa to tank Masha, Nora to strip buffs, and Tesa to deal damage. However, looking at this team now, it's rather poorly made, since I'm depending on Nora S1 to heal Yeonhwa. If I want to use Nora to strip, Yeonhwa could die. Probably better to run something like Tetra or Racuni, since there's no sustain other than enemy Nora S1.

10.) This one was super easy again. Kunite should be able to tank the attacks, Mihyang + Vigor can provide buffs and healing to help sustain him, and then Mihyang and Vigor can kill Carc first. I definitely had this guy outruned though. All of my monsters, including Kunite, moved before his Raoq did, which I had expected to be on Swift.

[vale jay]

Nice Helena usage in 3. You definitely kill Liam first. I think covenant Kona Helena is fine here. No swift threat.

[meager mauve]

I already used my fastest set on Teon for the Lushen comp. :/

Though I could probably just put Praline's runes on Kona and call it good since they have no speed lead and no swift threat.

[vale jay]

Use 2nd fastest

[meager mauve]

Does Helena reduce Mo Long S3 damage despite it being Fixed damage?

[vale jay]

s3 you mean?

yeah she tanks mo for days

[fiery geode]

did you have will on imesety?

[meager mauve]

Yes

[fiery geode]

did you think about how abellio would cut in between your 2 dds if you didn't kill him first?

[meager mauve]

Yes. I figured he would hit Kahli after Kahli sniped fire Yuji.

[fiery geode]

windy tetra would be unkillable here, you can almost even 2v3

[meager mauve]

Ah I knew I missed one! Great idea.

[fiery geode]

others are pretty good

[meager mauve]

Does Abellio have smart heal mechanics?

I was actually unsure if Abellio would use S3 if there was nothing to heal, but I thought he wouldn't.

[fiery geode]

yes

so you were fine

[meager mauve]

How accurate are the AI targeting rationales listed in #1048719420870107227 ?

Is it just kind of rough guesses, or is it pretty close and can be reliably used mathematically?

[vale jay]

Post hits @meager mauve

[vale jay]

It's estimate

We don't know exact #

[meager mauve]

1.) I kind of figured that with the destroy from Kunite + damage from Roid I'd be able to make this work. I can't tell if the comp was bad or I was outruned. I always lean towards bad comp though. :/

2.) I just looked this up on SWGT. I didn't even think about it or consider anything. Never doing this again. Vigor can be faster than my Imesety and just S2 and I lose.

3.) This was a recommendation from my guildmates. Several of them have used it and it's got a 100% winrate in our guild against this particular defense. I liked it, but felt that it was too easy to lose to vio procs. Nearly lost myself because of that.

4.) I misread Fermion's passive. I have to stop making stupid mistakes like this.

5.) Surprisingly, this was a recommendation from @vale jay , despite their hatred of the comp.

6.) Recommendation #2 from @vale jay . Honestly could have been a win if I had put Bulldozer on Destroy and gotten a little luckier a little faster with the double S3 crit on Lulu.

7.) I saw that there were no def breaks on this team and decided to do Jeanne Leo Helena. Worked super well. Helena ended up taking 11 straight turns (no joke) at one point.

8.) Seems pretty safe. Carc was going to be hit by Nora and Chandra, but as soon as I kill Nora he's safe. I didn't really see a way I could lose this other than insane vio procs from Chandra.

9.) Pretty easy Julie. Squishy, speed lead, and the race is against a Tiana or a Zaiross, both of which have significant speed disadvantages against Bernard

10.) I thought Lushen would kill Icares, bring Mo Long low enough for Mihyang to kill, and then I'd 3v1 Chloe. Instead, no one died and it tore me apart. I did not know Icares was built that tanky. I know for next time. This is not a Lushen candidate.

[haughty siren]

check icares s3

[meager mauve]

Yet again, more silly reading mistakes. -.-

Thank you.

[vale jay]

I was just trying to cook with ingredients present

[meager mauve]

My apologies. Fixed.

[vale jay]

You gotta stop trying to Lushen tanky stuff

[vale jay]

If you want to copper bulldozer this you better use your fastest set on imesety

Vigor is 115 base

Repeat after me

I do not Lushen defense with HP lead

I do not Lushen defenses with vigor

I do not Lushen defenses with Triana

[vale jay]

This offense isn't bad

You need to swap left side artis

Take a break from giants and farm sfah for awhilr

So top to bottom

1. Logan chacha Triana is very safe here
   Considering how rampant Kinki is in your sieges, build more chachas
   For Logan the build is super easy
   85 acc, 100 crate, 80k~ ehp (more is better but it's fine) and rest damage
   Violent destroy is ideal. Can use acc slot 6

SPD/crate/acc

If you find yourself consistently missing runes of certain types, farm dungeons, use your rune lock tickets to try to get what you need

If you need Vio time to go do dragons for a bit. In reality you need all types of runes

Find basic blues and make your way through it

3 is good. Nothing wrong with this. Do you own Juno? I think you do right? @meager mauve

[meager mauve]

I do, yes.

[vale jay]

Usually it's Juno cami racuni but that's too premium and you don't have Camilla

Computing alternatives

[haughty siren]

tetra is nice, but in this case she will die to savannah

[vale jay]

Nah fuck fish here

She finna die trust me I've seen his runes

Do you have lala?

Lala is still good here too

You can do like tractor Juno racuni/lala

[meager mauve]

I'll be honest, I hate LaLa. There's never been a time where LaLa has been a successful pick for me that I can remember. Every time, Lala fails to cleanse or whatever and I don't have triple rev to make her work.

[vale jay]

The scariest part to me is that you can get def broken on racuni and then Chandra can bonk you

You don't do triple revenge

Vio revenge is good usually

The annoying part is your s3 can get you revenged by Chandra and then you get despair (or just normal) stunned

And life sucks

So racuni is good too

[meager mauve]

Now you know why I have 0 confidence going into my fights. 😉

[vale jay]

No I don't think tetra is a good choice here anyways

I disagree with kodenir

Too easy to die especially now that Chandra does more damage these days with autocrit s1

Tractor racuni Juno is probably pretty safe also

Both counters are fine though, you should test and see which one you like better in research lab

Tesa is a bit awkward

Just because of how you need to not really hit sav for awhile but hitting Nora also feels bad

I would just not stress yourself out over the LD defenses too much

Like just let someone else hit these

They're above your pay grade for now

This isn't a super hard one but I would still just not worry about them too much for now

There's nothing wrong with picking hits you feel your box handles well

Every siege you should look for something to JLH

(not Moore lmao)

Like what are your premiums

[meager mauve]

What are typically the comps that JLH can hit?

What kinds of things am I looking for in a JLH candidate?

[vale jay]

Savannah theomars is best kind of stuff

Avoid tesa

Can you show Leo + Jeanne build

Don't JLH immunity stuff either

A lot of the LD bullshit JLH is fine for

It's still good enough into tesa a lot of the time honestly but skip tesa stuff

With JLH

It can go south really quick

[meager mauve]

I assumed Tesa was automatically a no-go because of oblivion on Leo.

Point is kind of to turn cycle with Helena and if you remove Leo then you can't really do that well enough.

[vale jay]

You'd be surprised

[meager mauve]

At risk of subjecting myself to further embarrassment:

[vale jay]

How many people still do it

[vale jay]

Quick question

[vale jay]

How do you think Jeanne would be best built with Leo in mind

And her res skill in mind

Also that Leo build is a no go too

I dunno if some weird guildie told you to build like this but

Let me show you how to build Leo most of the time

Bruiser is fine but

Bruiser implies being tanky

If Leo dies the Leo offense fails

I pretty much only ever use this build

[sleek wigeon]

Here is the requested monster.

therionshadow1 - Leo

Full views:
#1 Leo

#1 Will, Will, Shield

HP%, DEF%, HP%

HP: 43680
DEF: 2123
ATK: 1067
SPD: 109
CR: 27%
CD: 50%
ACC: 18%
RES: 102%
EHP: 374359
Effcy: 98.72%

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

Double will shield or if you can't do shield then broken is fine

If you don't have will runes time to go hit a skeleton

Leo doesn't need to do damage for JLH.

100 res tanky no speed. That's it. Acc is good too.s3 acc in artis.

If you have no will runes though seriously go will rune lock ticket and hit a skeleton

And sort through every single rune

Every single one

And look for use cases

Don't accept total garbage but get yourself started

[vale jay]

8 is no good. What if Riley just gets perma provoked?

She does heal with s1 but you're getting out cycled. Chandra is in the mix

[meager mauve]

I have done this before. I always forget that Nora could perma provoke.

[vale jay]

You definitely wanna see if you can find used for your Juno into nora

[vale jay]

To answer what I said before

59 res tanky

For jeanne

[meager mauve]

Woops. Forgot to answer. That was actually going to be my response, followed by "probably non-vio to avoid proccing out of invincibility"

[haughty siren]

what i meant that tetra is nice against nora chandra, but not here when there is sav that kills her

[meager mauve]

Also random question that I just considered. How "worst case scenario" should I consider?

For example, should I consider 10 vio procs? Seems impossible, but that would be absolute worst case scenario, you know?

In the Riley case, we consider "perma-provoking" from Nora, even if unlikely. Should I also consider 6-7 vio procs from anyone, even though it is unlikely? How far do I need to take it?

[vale jay]

Vio is good

Can do vio will

Being permanently provoked considering how hard Chandra cycles is not that unlikely

Or provoked long enough for a unit to proc and kill something

Hence why racuni is preferred

Even if you can proc out of invincibility Vio is still good. There are times where you aren't using invincibility on yourself and there are times where procs can save you

[meager mauve]

I've got some WGB hits to showcase too.

You know, I'm getting really tired of my inability to think of good hits.

1.) I figured def breaks on Velajuel and FY made it so that Windy was a great choice here. Khmun on destroy, Racuni on vio. Worked pretty well and seemed really safe barring insane vio procs from vela + FY.

2.) This defense is a really tough one. I've run into it before. I wanted to attempt an attack on it because I need to start hitting actual good defenses instead of total garbage and then acting like I'm getting better at the game. I think I had this defense outruned rather than an amazing comp, but I think the idea was alright considering my options.

[vale jay]

Yeah windy +2 is free for #1 haha

[meager mauve]

3.) Brita survived Cov's S3. Vio procced and killed Kahli.

[vale jay]

Yeah #2 is tough. I don't think I can share much there unfortunately

[meager mauve]

I know there's a lot of G3 tech involved with it. Just going to assume what I did wasn't great. Best I could think of for the moment though.

[vale jay]

I dunno 3 is a deceptively challenging defense to hit f2p

[meager mauve]

4.) I had to think about this one for a while. I couldn't decide whether to boost Bulldozer or Tractor with Imesety. I ultimately decided on boosting Copper and killing Dark Skogul (I can never remember his name). Then going for a Bulldozer attack on Skogul, as his passive increases defense and makes it possible Copper can't ignore defense.

[vale jay]

It's the same shit as always with this stupid Kumar unit

Hmmm

I think

I'm scared of trying to snipe Brita without Sonia to be honest

[meager mauve]

5.) This one I feel was safe, but requires good piloting. Can't use Tractor S2, Tetra has to save shield for herself if Nana def breaks, and then Tractor has to be on Destroy.

[vale jay]

She's just too tanky

[meager mauve]

6.) This was just stupid. Tesa beats Juno. I have no idea what I'm thinking.

7.) This was actually hilarious. In my head, I just imagined Theo getting one shot by Taru after resurging SongSeol. That happened. Then I figured it was just biding my time until both resurge AND Taru S3 were up and killing both Ophilia and Riley with it. I ended up reviving Taru about 7 times, but it worked out.

[vale jay]

Praline song shren

[meager mauve]

8.) I forgot that Carc would focus Helena if def broken. 😦

[vale jay]

#7

It's clean

AI is controlled with sustain

Think about it

[meager mauve]

9.) Juno stripped Malite will and he nearly died, but Racuni managed to heal him enough to get Malite into his S2. From there it was just letting Tesa take down the team.

10.) Tetra for provokes from Rakan, Delphoi for oblivion and heals, Byung because he seems pretty good into Guillaume since he can't glance. Thought it was a pretty poor defense though.

[meager mauve]

I have absolutely no idea how Brita is supposed to be built.

[solar finch]

Brita has a passive with dmg reduction, I think therion already mentioned once that sniping units with dmg reduction is almost a no go unless you have some premium unit

[meager mauve]

Holy cow you're right.

I'm starting to lose faith in my ability to read.

[solar finch]

Dont get discouraged, it happens sometimes

[vale jay]

At least you don't have a command named after your inability to read?

[meager mauve]

Should I look at this as a reapp target?

Or should I continue looking?

[nova nova]

no, CR is a stat you would actually want on slot 6 atk

[fiery geode]

no

[vale jay]

Arent you siege player

Will is lot less desirable for a siege player

[meager mauve]

I feel like I must be doing something wrong with reapps. I'm at around 177 and I've only reapped something like 5 runes total? I'm not farming DBAH so I'm not getting Vio runes at all, which means that I'm not ending up using any reapps at all. Is this normal?

[cedar sun]

same situation

if you were playing during the rune events this summer u must have some reapp targets that are vio/will though, I know I do

[vale jay]

Will doesn't fall under the same category as violent, stop lumping them together

[vale jay]

Farm dragons too

It's ok to go back and forth a bit

Buy Vio reapp targets with ancient coins

[fiery geode]

you can reapp other stuff besides vio

[cedar sun]

care expanding on that? or linking a resource

[meager mauve]

Reapp target?

It meets the requirements in the command, but the CD innate is something I feel is iffy?

[vale jay]

100% buy it

Doesn't have to be reapp target

Pray it rolls well

Basically any way it rolls efficiently it can be good tbh as long as it's dodging flat attack

[meager mauve]

I can't tell if this is reapp or not.

It's basically blue.

[vale jay]

up to you

its not a bad rune

even though it is blue

if you gem hp its still very useable

i dont think i'd reapp this lol

[meager mauve]

It's right on the cusp of "okay reapp" vs "decent enough to avoid reapp"

[meager mauve]

Just pulled this guy. What's he used for?

I haven't actually seen him used in Siege almost anywhere, so I'm thinking he might be rta instead.

[fiery geode]

yes, not really used in siege other than some "fun" or niche comps where you can try to use him to finish off a theo

[meager mauve]

1.) I've seen this comp used as an offense, not as a defense. I don't know if it works well. Nora stripped buffs, Byung killed stuff. Tetra tanked FY and cleansed def break.

2.) I thought I could Lushen, kill Nana and Smicer, then have MY finish off the Federica, leaving Nana to 3v1. Nana survived, then Federica one shot the Lushen, meaning that Nana could res Federica again.

3.) This one, I'll admit, I did not think through very much. I just figured I could snipe Gapsoo, snipe Moogwang, then 3v1 the Jeongnam. Didn't kill anything with this comp. I don't think I have the strength to snipe them.

4.) I figured a water tank + 2 wind would suffice here. Triana was to help prevent Ameila from dying. Comp seemed to work just fine. I focused Mo Long first to avoid strip + S3.

5.) This seemed like a pretty bad comp. Only MHW for def break, just slap a Windy in there with a Tesa and this comp dies. Racuni cleanses and heals pretty well too.

6.) I thought about this one and didn't really see how it could lose. Boost Copper and kill Louise, then just let Cha Cha tank both Vigor and Kinki while I get Copper S3 up. Wait for Vigor to use S2, then S3 Vigor and 3v1 the Kinki. Worked really well.

7.) I was about to use TWL, but I thought that Tractor would be ineffective against Eladriel. Instead, I figured Theomars would be better, as he will never be attacked by Carc, even if lower health and def broken, and he will have def break + attribute advantage against Eladriel. Worked well, and Windy tanked Carc.

8.) I thought I was going to snipe Bolverk. I forgot, however, that Cov does not get ATK boost in this comp, and he failed to kill Bolverk.

9.) I saw this comp in tournament towers. Seems really difficult to defeat. I wasn't sure how to solve this one other than Oblivion on Sylvia, so I got my Byung, Tesa, and Riley on the best runes I had and sent it. I really don't know the best way to solve this defense.

10.) Dominic did so much damage to Malite he died while in his stone form. Carc was also permanently taunted. I wanted to bring Tetra, but then Dominic would kill Tetra instead of attack Malite. I had already used Racuni on my other round. Would have been better suited for this defense and I could have used something else on 8.

This go around, I decided to look for strong defenses that looked difficult to beat, rather than weak ones that I could easily beat with 1 monster. Ended up losing a bit more often, and I overestimated my runes.

[haughty siren]

Tetra is not great feng tank, she will die to some procs

This was the one you should have used double snipe for

[haughty siren]

If you want to use it at least change to cov lead

[meager mauve]

I have had FY survive my Kahli S2 before, so I'm always scared.

[haughty siren]

Then hp type monster is even more likely to survive

[meager mauve]

I always have trouble remembering to do this.

[vale jay]

rina windy +1 for 1R
i don't like tesa into cleanses, it feels real bad

[meager mauve]

I thought about this, but figured I wouldn't be able to win because no strip and not good enough sustain from Rina.

[vale jay]

if you dont want to you can also just windy double fire it

[meager mauve]

Carc actually would have been a good choice now that you mention it. Good idea.

[vale jay]

so like windy racuni/harm then your +1 is just a bruiser

carc is workable

but

they have really high immunity uptime, i'm sure it wins 99%

okay i cant see your box anymore

because swarfarm support is gone for boxes

can you post swgt screenshot again

and i'll pin it

like realistically speaking i feel any fire bruiser is gonna work fine here

but want to check if something premium is available

[vale jay]

MHW probably feels really nice here

you can use bernadotte

then you actually bring a strip as well which is pleasant

just don't press s2 when feng has counter on

[meager mauve]

Is Bernadotte Ken?

[vale jay]

yeah

[meager mauve]

I've got him runed for PvE at the moment. What's his PvP build supposed to look like?

[vale jay]

steal tesa runes and send it

just bruiser

[meager mauve]

Forgot to share my other one by accident. I'm going to see if I can pull the info from SWGT

These defenses were pretty bad. I didn't really feel like any of them were difficult to solve.

1.) Only threat is FY. Just pick Malite, run Khmun on destroy, this is easy.

2.) Tiana is racing my Bernard on the same speed lead.

3.) Kunite + 2 water basically makes this unloseable. Also no def breaks.

4.) Only one I was thinking might be a problem, but I honestly think he forgot to rune his monsters. All 3 of mine moved before his, and I killed Elsha before he could even move.

5.) I had to think about this one for a bit. I think I may have misplayed it. Probably a better idea to boost Copper to immediately kill Seara. Then let Bulldozer S3 Skogul. I did the opposite, and Imesety could have died to bomb. I got extremely lucky and Imesety resisted it.

Ah here we go

6.) I completely misunderstood how I was supposed to run this comp, and I don't think Dozer/Copper works here. Better to run a Praline I think.

7.) This one I got super unlucky. Seara vio procced 4 times in a row to bomb Tetra and kill her. I was very close to killing Seara too, which then would have made this a win.

8.) I like Helena into Mo Long. This ended up being a little bit of a long fight because I don't have destroy on anyone for Riley. But it worked out pretty well.

9.) This one I had to think about for a bit, but I came to the conclusion that as long as I ran Dongbaek, there really wasn't anything this comp could do against me. Theomars ATK broken wasn't going to kill anything, especially if Khmun shield is on it. It did take a bit longer than normal because the debuffs on Juno let her heal, but none of my monsters were ever in danger, even if defense broken by Theo.

10.) This one was.... Odd. Thinking about it now, Tesa can die if Savanna def breaks, then Nana hits, then Rakan hits afterwards. I'm not entirely sure what works better here though. Maybe TWL? I'd like some help solving this one.

[haughty siren]

Do you have all 3 of them on will?

[meager mauve]

Yes

[vale jay]

Dont JLH into riley

Next time do Helena +2

With the +2 being water

Just go -fire helena

We don't do Jeanne Leo Helena into immunity

[fiery geode]

4 - this is not a good team, you should try to have some sort of passive cleanse like vero/tetra/racuni against jeanne, and a dark tank against elsha like dias

6. copper dozer still should be fine, you copper minato and then you're forced to dozer ophilia but thats still fine unless you're weak and don't 1 shot

7. tetra is not the best tank against seara, rina and camilla are a bit better

8. helena into mo is fine but the problem here is that there's also a perna. mo def breaks helena and now perna kills her

9. i dont know what you mean by as long as you run dongbaek theres nothing the enemy can do? they enemy can just kill you

dongbaek has no damage reduction, there's a betta that can give him immunity so he doesn't even get def broken

10. stack the immunity and you're fine, they have no sustain. for example byung lulu + 1 more support like fran delphoi whatever

[meager mauve]

Would Rina work here? I thought about Rina but thought that I had no sustain.

[fiery geode]

you dont need more than 1 damage

you just do rina + vero/racuni + whatever bruiser you want thats not water

[meager mauve]

Is strip into Woosa not a requirement?

[fiery geode]

use a dd with a strip then

but no

[meager mauve]

A friend of mine had an old account that he didn't play anymore and gave it to me.

Here's the current box:

I've been working on re-runing this account, and I am stuck in a couple of areas. I'm hoping I can get some help with how to rune certain monsters.

1.) Bethony. I've heard that Bethony is one of the best, if not the best, snipers in the game. I don't know how she should be runed or which teams she would work in.

2.) Feng Yan. I know he can be used on Defense and on Attack, but I don't know how he should be runed.

I'd also like some help building defenses, but I'll get to those once I have ideas.

[fiery geode]

i think you should be able to figure out bethony. she is just a better cov/kahli/taru/etc

she does way more damage, but does come at a small cost of having additional rune considerations

which are that she herself needs a will set, and someone on the team needs a shield set. it could be herself, could be your praline, could be your 2nd dd doesn't matter

feng runes depends on team

[vale jay]

Don't use Feng on def

[fiery geode]

i think feng is ok on def now

[vale jay]

For WGB defenses (gonna just throw some ideas out)

1. Carc Lora X (Elsharion/Sigrid come to mind)
2. Chandra Zen X (Beelzebub & mi ying are both decent mons here)
3. Odin style defense (no Adriana - could go Odin Sigrid X, Odin Riley, Odin bastet Perna, etc)
4. Ramael isis Bombay (if you have Bombay)
5. Nigong Gapsoo X (theomars/tesa probably farms people here, for example)

@meager mauve

[meager mauve]

These are good ideas. I had 2 ideas similar to yours. I'll go through them one by one to get them runed once I get Bethony runed.

I'll most likely rune them separately, since I'd also want to put them into Siege. But we'll see.

[meager mauve]

Siege hits from old account this Siege:

1.) WIN - I thought this would work pretty well. No def break so Tesa/Racuni would be safe from Perna, as would Byung. Tesa beats Byung/Perna pretty easily.

2.) WIN - I figured that Theo could survive if Savannah def broke him and then vio procced. However, I did not think through beyond that, and I realized that if Theo then moved, Moore could kill him immediately. This hit was not good.

3.) LOSE - I've used this comp before, but I realize now it is just because I got super lucky. This is one of those instances where "it works until it doesn't" happens. Racuni got def broken from Savanna and then Tesarion vio procced to kill him.

4.) WIN - Standard hit into a standard defense.

5.) WIN - This seemed like a pretty good chance to Julie. I just had to outspeed Zen, and I felt like Dorothy/Vendhan would be dead even if both were on Will. Easy 3v1 against Zen. Worked out pretty well.

6.) Jeanne/Leo/Helena vs Ramael/Byungchul/7R1X WIN - Honestly just picked this and sent it because we needed to take a tower quickly, and I felt like this would be a safe bet.

7.) Skogul/Tetra/Kunite vs Hyanes/Vigor/Iris LOSE - I thought my idea was pretty good actually, but Skogul's rock didn't even really damage them. Vigor was on Swift, so I could not cleave. This defense won 7 times in a row. I believe he had great runes.

8.) Dozer/Copper/Imesety vs Ophilia/Theomars/Riley WIN - Boosted Dozer, killed Ophilia, then killed Riley. Theo would be hard pressed to win this 3v1.

9.) Mihyang/Teon/Lushen vs Verad/Nora/CP WIN - Saw this as a good Lushen target. Relatively Squishy monsters, no speed lead, and no swift threat.

10.) Carc/Lala/Yeonhwa vs Feng Yan/Aaliyah/Velajuel WIN - Thought this one through for a bit before deciding on this comp. I didn't think Feng Yan/Velajuel would be able to kill Yeonhwa, and I figured that Carc wouldn't ever be def broken, so he'd be safe. I had Carc on destroy for Aaliyah too. Finally I thought that Lala would be a good pick for strip + cleanse + heals.

[haughty siren]

savannah does have strip on s2 while mounted btw, if you didn't know

[meager mauve]

I did, but I kind of figured that she'd S2 before his passive kicked in. I didn't think Savannah would one-shot Theo with a single S3.

Though I didn't take into account the idea of S3 -> S1 -> S2.

[haughty siren]

yeah but she has 2 hits on s2

[meager mauve]

Sure, but only the first strips right?

It says Beast -> Rider. I am assuming that's the order in which the hits land, but I don't know.

Oh I completely misread this.

By rider it's saying when dismounted.

[haughty siren]

no you were right, turns out i can't read, tho it's still kinda sketchy since theo boost is not more than sav reduce atk bar

so moore will move right after

[meager mauve]

Yeah, like I said, looking at this hit now, it's a pretty bad one.

[haughty siren]

like you don't know his turn order, moore can move first for example even if you take will

then sav def break plus s2

[meager mauve]

Yeah. And Theo is also guaranteed to be targeted by Savannah because he has lower health, so he'll take more damage.

Next time I will be more cautious.

[cedar sun]

I was recommended Mihyang Draco Taor vs this def, killing sav first

idk ur box so just throwing it out there

[meager mauve]

No Taor. 😦

But thank you for the suggestion! I have Taor on the new account, and I see this defense frequently, so this will be a good team to use.

[cedar sun]

.

it's basically this but moore instead of clara so im assuming you're trying to counter it the same way

jx suggested a bunch of options there

[meager mauve]

oooooooffffff you're making me realize that I have already had this comp addressed in my thread and I just didn't remember. Ouch.

Thanks for finding that for me!

[cedar sun]

something I've just started doing is basically noting every comp i've successfully used or been recommended against every def on a personal discord cz I had this exact same issue

but ye no worries i find it useful using searchbar here to see if I can find info about a def / offs, not hogging ur thread any longer though!!

[meager mauve]

Cleaner format of the hits above

Tenth hit the battle ended while I was in the middle of it, so it was not recorded.

1.) This seemed like a pretty good chance to Julie. I just had to outspeed Zen, and I felt like Dorothy/Vendhan would be dead even if both were on Will. Easy 3v1 against Zen. Worked out pretty well.

2.) Standard hit into a standard defense.

3.) I've used this comp before, but I realize now it is just because I got super lucky. This is one of those instances where "it works until it doesn't" happens. Racuni got def broken from Savanna and then Tesarion vio procced to kill him.

4.) I figured that Theo could survive if Savannah def broke him and then vio procced. However, I did not think through beyond that, and I realized that if Theo then moved, Moore could kill him immediately. This hit was not good.

5.) I thought this would work pretty well. No def break so Tesa/Racuni would be safe from Perna, as would Byung. Tesa beats Byung/Perna pretty easily.

6.) Honestly just picked this and sent it because we needed to take a tower quickly, and I felt like this would be a safe bet.

7.) I thought my idea was pretty good actually, but Skogul's rock didn't even really damage them. Vigor was on Swift, so I could not cleave. This defense won 7 times in a row. I believe he had great runes.

8.) Boosted Dozer, killed Ophilia, then killed Riley. Theo would be hard pressed to win this 3v1.

9.) Saw this as a good Lushen target. Relatively Squishy monsters, no speed lead, and no swift threat.

10.) Carc/Lala/Yeonhwa vs Feng Yan/Aaliyah/Velajuel WIN - Thought this one through for a bit before deciding on this comp. I didn't think Feng Yan/Velajuel would be able to kill Yeonhwa, and I figured that Carc wouldn't ever be def broken, so he'd be safe. I had Carc on destroy for Aaliyah too. Finally I thought that Lala would be a good pick for strip + cleanse + heals.

(Reposted for better formatting)

[fiery geode]

3. try yeonhwa instead of malite

then 2 water like tetra cami/tractor

4. yea basically this wind water idea, except you used really bad units here (riley and theo here are much worse than yeonhwa tractor)

[meager mauve]

Question about this one, if I use 2 water, doesn't that put them at risk of dying to Savanna? Or is it specifically with Yeonhwa that it would be safer?

[fiery geode]

yeonhwa adds a lot of safety

6. this is fine but be careful that there are several things that make this a bit unsafe. add up a lot of these small things and it'll tip the scales over to the "avoid jeanne leo helena"

byung is one of these small things. he will steal your immunity and then be protected against all the cc you have. he also has stun which is very dangerous, even more so if he has rev (can rev stun your helena)

water units in general also are a small thing, as you have less chance of landing your helena stuff on them

[meager mauve]

I'm not sure what immunity you're referring to here, unless you mean Leo on Will, in which case, I do not have that yet.

[fiery geode]

also note that helena gaining the atb required to cycle is reliant on both harmful effects and critting, and both are reduced vs water

?

you don't have will on your team?

[meager mauve]

Nope. No one on Will currently. (Still farming for it)

[fiery geode]

yea thats much much worse

this is a pure second turn team you're eating the entire enemy 1st wave

[meager mauve]

Got it. I'll make sure to fix that.

[fiery geode]

7 - team idea is good, i really like the kunite tetra here

try malite or jultan instead of skogul next time

[meager mauve]

Ah Jultan is brilliant! I wish I had thought of that. Thank you.

[fiery geode]

10 - yeonhwa is not the best tank choice here, she applies atk break on enemies making it great against things like sav and tesa

but not feng or vela

and even worse if theres vela giving immunity to them

wheres windy

[meager mauve]

Only have 1 currently, and I had already used him in the TWL hit on CVT.

Looks like its time for another!

[vale jay]

remember i told you how to beat ophilia riley theo already

praline songseol shren

much safer

cant lose really

[meager mauve]

I never wrote this down. Putting it down now so that I do not forget.

[meager mauve]

(Left then right)

1.) Used this comp before and it works well. Just need to make sure to save Delphoi S3 for after Skogul rock.

2.) This is just CVT but Jultan instead of Vigor.

3.) Just racing the Tiana with Bernard. Bernard was on 2nd fastest because I had a Lushen later on in this hit.

4.) Snipe Douglas and Riley and game is over.

5.) Seemed like a free Lushen.

6.) This was a very strange comp. I've never seen a Lushen comp with Leo before. I think the only way to win is to take T2 against the Lushen. Something like Byung/Cami or a full revive team maybe.

7.) I wanted to use Windy, but I needed him for a different hit later in this same WGB, so I used Malite. Worked well.

8.) I made sure to run Cov lead to counter Vero HP lead. Then I took +damage on Water on Cov, +damage on dark on Taru.

9.) Standard.

10.) I did not think about this hit very much, but I should have considered it much more carefully. I nearly got my Helena killed because of my poor thinking, despite a -water arti. I did not consider that when Hraes S3's, Bolverk gains stacks. I should have focused Bolverk since the very start. I instead focused Mo Long for the first little bit. Once I realized my mistake, I changed targeting and managed to secure a win before Helena was killed. Piloting error that will not happen again.

[finite terrace]

leo lucifer is very funny to hit. leo always moves first so most ppl just use a nem nem will megan to take a hit, get the nem boost and then boost up ur own lushen to kill them

[meager mauve]

Oh that's a great idea! I'll note that for next time. I hadn't even thought about something like that.

[meager mauve]

Actually, wouldn't this be risky because Leo can pushback Megan attack bar?

[finite terrace]

will

nem nem will

[meager mauve]

Oh duh.

[finite terrace]

the only risk is leo like, vio proccing like crazy and oneshotting megan ig? cuz megan needs to be somewhat squishy to get nem boost, but ive never seen it.

[haughty siren]

people do triana for safety if it's dmg vio leo and he procs

so megan survives

[finite terrace]

oh that i didnt know. i just assume she lives lol

[meager mauve]

I want to start runing my defenses, as I'm starting to run a little lower on runes to build them. I want to build the following defense first:

Carcano/Lora/Elsharion

Few questions on builds for Carc and Lora.

1.) Carc can be built tanky. I'd like to see if I could accomplish that. What should his SPD/CR/ATK/ACC look like for that kind of a build?

2.) Lora I'm assuming must be built tanky and should attempt to move first in this defense. Should I put her on a swift set?

[vale jay]

don't use swift on def

its bad

(in g1)

you'll farm more wins on newbs with vio

just go fast vio

[vale jay]

1 is pretty good. i like elucia more than delphoi but this is good

i'm unsure if its possible to glance douglas when you have higher atk power than he does

@fiery geode ?

nice job, most of these hits are good

[meager mauve]

Next questions for the next defense! Chandra/Zen/Mi Ying

How should I rune Zen? I am not sure if I need to just make him fast and high accuracy, or if I should make him tanky.

Mi Ying is also a little tricky for me to know how to build. Do I want to put him on SPD/ATK/ATK, or should I change one of the ATK mains for an HP on 4 or 6?

[fiery geode]

not possible

glance chance from passive just goes from 0 to 50

maximum glance chance is somewhere around douglas having 1500 more atk

mi ying is just a regular attack based bruiser

you would build him with crit

reread siege def parts of #1048719420870107227

[meager mauve]

How is Odin typically supposed to be built? I know he needs someone on his team to have Shield runes, and he himself needs at least one set of Will.

I think for stats I'm going to go SPD/CR/ATK or SPD/CR/HP and make sure he has 100 CR, 100 res. I know there are Odin traps where he is built tanky, but I think most of the time I'll want to just build him as high damage as I can.

Also I do not have Adriana, so I'll have to run something like Odin/Bastet/Perna or maybe the classic Khmun/Bastet/Odin. Do I want to focus more on tuning for Odin to move when his team finishes buffing him, or should I try to make Bastet on Swift as fast as possible so that she can move first and create teh shield for him?

[fiery geode]

is this for def?

[meager mauve]

Yes. This is for a defense.

[fiery geode]

do you have a skilled perna and bastet?

[meager mauve]

Yes. I have both skilled.

[fiery geode]

you can do odin bastet perna

that has a guild cr lead so you can run slot 4 cd

I know there are Odin traps where he is built tanky, but I think most of the time I'll want to just build him as high damage as I can.

tanky doesn't make it a trap. that's just how def units are built

this isn't really a preference thing. high damage is just bad

bastet should be vio

[meager mauve]

1.) Seemed like a pretty easy TWL target. Only def break besides Carc is Lulu. I felt the only way I lose is if Cichlid lands S3 to strip Lulu's Will and then def break, and then Mihyang S2's Lulu and is built really strong.

2.) I've used this comp before. Only real scare is CD Moore hitting def broken Racuni.

3.) Crazy part about this one is that I actually lost the swift race. Tiana beat me. But this guy's runes were so bad that my entire lineup survived.

4.) I did not think about this very well, but I think the idea mostly worked. I had everyone on -wind damage and then attempted to taunt Skogul endlessly. That happened, but I failed to think about what if Skogul vio procs. He did throw a rock and it didn't deal much damage, but I did not consider vio proccing to throw a rock through the taunt.

5.) I felt this was a safe enough race.

6.) I had this suggested in this thread, so I tried it and it seemed to work pretty well. Only problem was that Tetra got low from Miles vio proccing 3 times in a row. Luckily I have her on nem so she went after that and healed back up.

7.) This one I thought about for a while and decided that really I just needed a cleanser that wouldn't be hit by Byungchul. Racuni seemed to work. Byung did get low a couple of times, but the shield from Khmun + Racuni's healing kept him alive.

8.) Just snipe odin twice and then wait for the ignore defense abilities to come back up.

9.) Put Teon on my fastest swift and hoped for the best. Won the race, but we were on same tick, so I think just barely.

10.) I'll be 100% honest, this one I didn't even really think about. I just picked Wind tank + 2 fire and sent it. Team didn't even make it past turn 3 before collapsing. I'm not sure what team would work best for this, and I'd like some suggestions. 😄

[haughty siren]

it is not that crazy, if i remember correctly you don't have great swift set on praline

[meager mauve]

No, not crazy as in "holy cow tiana beat me"

Crazy in that I survived despite losing the race.

But yes, you are correct. I think my Praline is on +182 or something like that.

[haughty siren]

yeah you have like 6* speed advantage on tiana, so that's not the best to race her with your praline

[meager mauve]

Ah, you're right. I got mixed up and thought Praline had 105 speed instead of 102. Racing there was a bad idea.

[haughty siren]

praline is 103 iirc, but that doesn't change the fact that your pralines is not built for racing

[fiery geode]

praline has 2 speed advantage over gal tiana

praline speed lead is only 19

[vale jay]

Lulu vs cic is rough

Didn't I give you suggestion already for 4R?

go khmun vigor elucia

Is good

[meager mauve]

I was already running Khmun somewhere else.

[vale jay]

Ahh I see

[meager mauve]

Ah man, jx9 is right. That means my Praline hit there was actually pretty terrible. Yikes. :/

Better to just Lushen it then I suppose.

[vale jay]

Teon isn't that much faster right

What's the face diff

[meager mauve]

I guess yeah, Teon is just 2 speed faster as well. The difference would just be topset vs 2nd topset. I use 2nd topset on Praline to keep the snipers tuned. I can't get them tuned to my topset and still keep decent damage.

[autumn crystal]

Can you tune one of the two DDs to top set with damage? Lets you snipe the swift threat on the other side which hopefully means your second DD will still move next

[meager mauve]

I don't think so, but I'll look into it with swop and see what I can find. That's a great suggestion.

[meager mauve]

Looking at building a sniper team with Praline on this new account, and I've got several options that I can see. I'm looking specifically at the following mons with Praline:

Covenant
Fire Kass
Bethony
Shren

With this lineup, I think I cover pretty much every element pretty well. Two questions:

1.) Can Fire Kass work like Bethony, where all I need to do is make sure she has will and someone on the team has Shield? Or is she not quite as efficient and powerful in that regard to be an effective sniper?

2.) When building all of these monsters, since I get the CR buff from Praline, I'm assuming I can build with 70% CR. However, would it be worth building closer to 100 CR so I can use them without Praline? Or should I never plan on that kind of a scenario?

[vale jay]

Bethony is broken my brother just use bethony x2 every time

Use her first

No Sonia/Tirsa right

[meager mauve]

No sonia. No tirsa. No rigna.

[vale jay]

SKill issue

but yeah fire kass is a good sniper

build your other f2p options but definitely utilize your bethony first

[fiery geode]

if you want to use snipers with a buffer that doesn't have crit buff, then you need a different set of runes lol

make 70 cr sets for praline, 100 cr sets for not praline

[vale jay]

Good thing you have two bethonys

[fiery geode]

i have 1 bethony and 4 different entire sets just for her

they're loaded on different monsters and those runes not shared with anyone else lol

[vale jay]

@meager mauve does this give you an idea of how bullshit strong this monster is 🙂

[stone tendon]

dam I came here to see jakye get flamed for trying to race 24 lead Lora with Praline after he talked some shit but looks like he never posted it

[meager mauve]

Bit of a unique situation, and I'm hoping to get some input.

On this new account, I managed to pull a dupe Jaara. I'm aware that Jaara is a very strong monster for Siege, but is a duplicate worth keeping around, or should I feed it for the LD blessing?

[fiery geode]

ld blessing

[meager mauve]

I also have pulled a couple of extra dupes over the course of the summons. I'm pretty sure I can feed them all for Crystals, but I'd like to make sure before I make a mistake:

Moogwang
Abellio
Enisha (Fire Magic Order Elementalist)

[fiery geode]

yes you can crystal them

[meager mauve]

In the process of runing a FY. 2 questions:

1.) Is FY one of the monsters that you have different ways of runing based on if he's on Defense or Offense? Or is it more role-based runing, like if I'm using him as a bruiser or a tank in certain comps?

2.) I'm assuming that because of FY's passive, he can actually be runed pretty slow, especially if I can funnel attacks into him, and even moreso if I'm using him with a Leo. Does tick even matter for FY?

[fiery geode]

Is 1) really a question you need to ask

2. yes you can rune him slower and tick matters less

[vale jay]

Don't go slower than 179 unless used with leo

[meager mauve]

Hits from last Siege:

1.) I thought this would work pretty well. Kunite helps with the multi-hits and tanks both Ashour and Brita, and Tetra prevents him from dying. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough damage from Covenant to kill anything, and Ashour and Brita both vio procced 3-4 times in a row to kill Kunite.

2.) This one seemed pretty easy. It took a while because of no strip for Woosa, but seemed pretty safe. It was a possible loss if FY had vio procced a ton, but seemed okay.

3.) I kind of brewed this off of looking at SWGT counters. The counter I saw used Roid instead of Triana, but I didn't think that would work well. My monsters were way too slow and got lapped.

4.) Very easy Julie.

5.) I thought about this one for a while and came to the conclusion that as long as I used Byung S2 for when Cha Cha was low, and as long as I provoked Kinki enough, I should be okay. Cha Cha did die to Herteit, but it was a full health Byung and full Roid against Herteit at that point, so it was a win.

6.) By this point we had 20 minutes left in Siege so I was just trying to get hits in. However, I did think this would work. The reason it lost is because the enemy Misty vio procced 3 times to finish Jultan off after being low.

7.) This really isn't a safe comp. I got lucky and outruned him.

8.) Also not super safe, but I think the comp works if you get lucky. Vritra defense breaks into MY S2 killed every monster one at a time.

9.) Just throwing attacks before siege end.

10.) Again just attacking. I had just lost hit 9 to this and knew that I would be racing the vio Cichlid on my fastest swift. Unfortunately Cichlid won the race.

[cedar sun]

I run this def, easy way to beat it is double snipe Ashour and Gapsoo then 3v1 the Britta, I think it's free this way unless someone disagrees

[meager mauve]

I don't really have premium snipe options. And I can't run Covenant lead because if Brita is on Swift I can lose. Unfortunately I can't really guarantee that I kill Ashour and Gapsoo with a double snipe team. I agree that it works with premium options though.

[fiery geode]

you don't need premium snipe options to beat this

99% chance brita is not on swift, even if she is on swift it's an even speed race with atk lead so then it's just a rune quality issue and not a team isue

brita is the potentially tankiest monster here because she has a dmg reduction passive, so it's fair to say you need premium snipe to want to 1 shot her

but ashour and gapsoo have no damage reduction passive

it's expected that you can snipe them with a cov

[fiery geode]

this team is ok, could be better if you got a strip in there somewhere. for example lala is a healer with a strip

also you don't have to have tesa to kill monsters like feng and laika. you can just kill them normally

[fiery geode]

i dont like this, if you're bruisering with stuff like triana against cichlid, you need 2 different support monsters that can cover each other because you can't really stop cichlid from messing up any 1 particular monster

for example you can use briand + triana + bruiser (like the suggested roid)

another example of a better support unit here would be chacha, since her main sustain skill is s1 and she won't care if she gets hit by cichlid's -cd

so overall i think the most spammable counters would probably be like triana roid chacha, or maybe tractor windy tetra/chacha

also if the enemy guild is spamming this def - over the course of the siege you can scout out how they are built. any cichlids not on swift you can just cleave on subsequent hits

both lushen or julie

[fiery geode]

yeonhwa tetra cami is safest. you have to use water, not fire. because sav can still def break your fire units then tesa will kill them

tractor can work in place of cami

if you have to use fire, tesa is somewhat acceptable because at least he has dmg reduction

racuni way too squishy

[meager mauve]

I've always been scared of Tetra into Savannah. One def break + one vio proc and I feel like Tetra could easily die.

[fiery geode]

ok but consider this

if you bring tetra, sav has to s3, then proc and do s2 to do what you said you're scared about

even when tetra is def broken then tesa will not hit her

if you bring racuni, then sav s3 and def breaks racuni, and now tesa hits your racuni

that's the exact same damage output by the def, except one requires procs and one doesn't

racuni is a nat 3 so he has much weaker base stats than tetra

and on top of that, yeonhwa will apply atk break to the def units once they proc (i'm assuming that if they are on will, their first hit can't be atk broken)

[meager mauve]

That makes sense. I suppose I've mostly just looked at worst case scenario and then immediately said "Tetra can just die". Racuni I also know can die, especially if there's a CD Moore.

I've also been advised to use 2 water and a wind before, I've just never asked about how that works, which I should have at the beginning.

[fiery geode]

what do you mean how that works?

that's just a basic ai manipulation concept covered in #1048719420870107227

[meager mauve]

Mostly how Tetra is a safe pick into Savannah. I couldn't grasp the idea very well, but your explanation makes a lot of sense. Like I said, I was always just going "Tetra dies so that's out". I wasn't thinking through the entire scenario like you explained.

[fiery geode]

so when you chose to use racuni you didn't consider tesa hitting racuni?

[meager mauve]

Oh I think I might have given the wrong impression.

I know this comp is bad. I know if Tesa hits Racuni it's over. I was just attempting to get hits in before the end of the siege.

I even noted to my guild in the replay that the comp is bad because Racuni can just get hit once by Tesa and you lose.

I just never thought through the Tractor/Yeonhwa/Tetra attack as thoroughly as you explained it, and I never asked. That's all I'm saying. I wasn't defending my comp. It's bad.

[meager mauve]

Siege hits:

1.) Saw this and didn't really see how Cha Cha Copper Imesety could lose here. Kill Vigor first and there's no sustain, Kinki will always hit Cha Cha, and once Imesety boosts a 2nd time it's a free win.

2.) Only way I lose this is if Byung and Ashour kill Malite. Neither were ever going to hit Tesa/Racuni because only def break is on Ashour.

3.) Seemed like a pretty easy Julie target. Racing Julie and everyone was squishy.

4.) Standard hit into a standard defense.

5.) I like running Vritra into Danu. Kunite helped reduce damage from multi-hits, and Triana made it a little extra safe.

6.) I immediately thought I could Lushen this defense. However, they had HP lead, so I decided to run Elsha lead so that I'd have ATK lead. Also Elsha steals Riley buffs. Seemed to work well, but probably could have gone sideways if Dominic had vio procced a ton.

7.) I thought that the worst case scenario would be swift Ethna uses S2, which then def breaks Racuni and not Khmun. Then Psamathe goes next and vio procs a couple of times to hit Racuni. Looking at this hit now, I think it's risky because Racuni could probably die in that scenario, but that scenario is tough to get.

8.) Used this before. Works okay, though it's a little risky because you can lose Imesety.

9.) Counter for MST.

10.) Counter for MST.

[fiery geode]

1. you need to kill fuco first not vigor

fuco can hit copper and def break him, then kinki can hit copper too

vigor cant

2. good but be careful don't underestimate damage from ashour byung and nigong

5. i dont like triana at all here, you need something with passive or s1 sustain

6. you're still overestimating effect of lead

it doesn't change anything you still lushen it easily. the more important thing rather than hitting hp lead or not or using your own atk lead or not

is to have your lead be fast and can follow up lushen before riley moves so it can finish off stuff

[meager mauve]

I'm a little confused. I kind of looked at this as a situation like running Cov with Praline, for example.

If there's an HP lead you can afford to use Cov lead rather than Praline lead and it's increased damage.

Is the difference just that you don't have ATB boost?

[fiery geode]

i'm just saying the most important thing is to make sure your lead is on swift and super fast

if you already have a mihyang teon lushen team runed up correctly

then i would just continue to use mihyang in this case

even if you dont really need the spd lead

[meager mauve]

You wouldn't be worried about Dominic killing Mihyang?

[fiery geode]

dominic doesn't get a turn

if he does you did something wrong

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... I see what you're saying. I wasn't confident that I could kill Ongyouki after Riley moved.

[fiery geode]

are you sure you see what i'm saying

the only thing that could be surviving here after lushen moves is riley

if your lushen is really bad then maybe dom survives

and that's what your mihyang is for

[meager mauve]

Yeah, that's the crazy part. Everything survived the Lushen S3.

Dom, Ongyouki, Riley all lived.

But that's rune quality issue I'd bet.

[fiery geode]

so either your runes are bad

you just got unlucky hitting a good player and just got rune gapped

or you actually ran into some tanky trap (highly unlikely at this level)

[meager mauve]

I'd bet it was bad runes. I think I've posted my Lushen before and been told it needs work.

[vale jay]

Didn't we already discuss that this is super bad

[meager mauve]

We've discussed it, but I don't think it's super bad. Only way you really lose is if Theomars procs a million times. He can get attack buffed from Riley, sure, but I don't think that is enough to kill all 3 monsters.

[cedar sun]

do you boost dozer and snipe Ophilia first? (why not just praline song shren it?)

[meager mauve]

Yes. Boost Dozer and then snipe Ophilia first, snipe Riley second, Theo has to 1v3.

I don't run Praline Song Shren because I do not have that built.

I think every rune for Song and Shren would need to be moved from a different mon.

[cedar sun]

that's for sure

but it's probably builds you already have elsewhere

[vale jay]

It's not anywhere near as hard as you think it is

Theomars can fuck you up without atk buff

With atk buff you're cooked

Swift Ophilia exists
You are racing +1
You are slow
This is not a valid counter

There's so many loss cons

[vale jay]

One other thing is
Since theomars will get a turn
Riley atk buff
Theomars hits copper
You can just die if it's high dmg Theo, right away
Don't underestimate this monster
He is bananas

[meager mauve]

1.) I have this team for MST. So far 100% winrate.

2.) I've used this team before into Carc/Miles/Eladriel. I have to be careful and use Tetra's shield properly, but it seems to work.

3.) This was a meme defense. An entire tower full of it. Just boost Copper kill Vritra and Cha Cha tanks everything.

4.) Repeat hit.

5.) I should have taken Tetra instead of Cha Cha so that Vritra tanks Danu and then revenges him. Poor planning on my part.

6.) This defense had already been hit by my guildmate and I knew that I was faster than it. Also knew that only Seara would live the Julie.

7.) I thought this was a decent JLH candidate. I had everything on Will, so no Seara bomb risk either.

8.) If there was a Savannah instead of Masha I would have been a lot more worried to use this comp, but with Masha there this seemed pretty simple. Malite tanks both fire mons and then Khmun/Racuni can kill them when they get low.

9.) The Kinki vio procced 3 times in a row and killed Veromos. I believe the comp was actually okay otherwise.

10.) I will admit this was really stupid. I got incredibly lucky. I completely forgot that Fire Kass can't be sniped. I got very lucky though. I sniped fire kass, she one shot praline and did not vio proc, and then theo hit Covenant instead of kahli. Kahli used S3 and beat Theo in the 1v1. There's so much that could have gone wrong.

[fiery geode]

this isn't good, seara can bomb and kill vero

[meager mauve]

Would it work if Vero was on Will?

[fiery geode]

what do you think

[meager mauve]

I guess it would really depend on how fast Vero is. If Vero moves before Seara then it might not, but if Vero is slower then it's probably fine.

[fiery geode]

play out the entire battle in your head

who is likely to move first

out of all 6 monsters

[meager mauve]

Well if this defense is built properly, Nora will move first so that she strips.

[fiery geode]

ok

[meager mauve]

Which means Will doesn't mean anything.

[fiery geode]

so why does vero having will or not matter

[meager mauve]

On this particular defense the Seara moved first. I've just been thinking about that rather than optimal.

Thanks. 😄

[vale jay]

Don't use TWT into #2

If you want something f2p that is bruiser go vigor elucia windy, sleep miles

For low siege you can do khmun Kona mara but it gets damage checked very easily

[meager mauve]

WGB hits:

1.) I liked this idea into this comp. After talking it over with Scarlet for a bit, I've realized that I piloted this incorrectly. I got lucky.

2.) Seemed like a pretty good Lushen target, but I wanted to keep my fastest swift on Julie for a later hit in this set, so I just ran MY with my Dova. Worked like a charm.

3.) Bad def. All Wind. Just pick Rina and you win.

4.) Fun cleave. Use Jaara to kill Bolverk, then kill Tarq. Abellio cannot 1v3.

5.) Easy Julie target.

6.) I am not sure what to do here, so I made my best guess. Tesa to oblivion Theo, MY for heals/cleanse, FY to help heal + def break. Tesa nearly died to Theo vio procs, so it might have been better to run a Triana probably.

7.) Thought this comp was a little clever. Liam can basically oneshot Laika, and his heal block + beneficial effect block is super useful into Fran. Leo tanked Laika forever, and Tetra healed any damage done to anyone.

8.) I thought I could Lushen this with Mirinae and only Clara would live. Turned out exactly that way.

9.) Cleave with Jaara to prevent Perna passive from activating, then kill MY. If the MY is tankier here I think it can get a little risky, but Jaara hits pretty hard after Gemini def break, so I really think it is okay.

10.) Fire Kass -> FY, then Kahli -> Kaki. Chandra left to attempt a 1v3, which seems unlikely. Kass can't die to Chandra immediately without a strip from Chandra S1, same with Kahli after I S3. Seems pretty safe.

[meager mauve]

I am looking at building a Truffle for a Truffle/Tiana/CP offense. How should Truffle be built? I know Tiana is sharing a MY build. CP just needs high accuracy, but I'm unsure of Truffle. I would guess since he's subsituting for Galleon it would be 100 CR, 85 Acc. But since his S3 has such a higher chance of landing, is that the correct way to build him for the offense?

[vale jay]

Yeah he's a bruiser

Same build

Can go for 286 tick if your runes are good enough

[autumn crystal]

Cp wants cr too (and cd/atk if you can afford after being speed tuned)

You are giving up atk buff from galleon so you need all the damage you can get

[vale jay]

You don't need damage on Cheongpung really

Like you get some but for the most part you want to be tankier

[autumn crystal]

You aren’t worried about lacking damage counting on tiana with no atk buff?

[vale jay]

oh wait

i was confused

sorry my brain didn't allow me to process that we were using both truffle and cheongpung

yeah I can't speak on that actually, i'm not sure

it makes sense you'd want more damage but i'm not positive

I still think it's probably going to play out a bit more bruiser like

I think light robo is better if you're just trying to win in 1 turn

but i can't say anything irrefutably, i'll wait for someone who has used the comp more to speak on it

[meager mauve]

I thought about this too. I was going to work on CP after getting the Truffle stuff worked out first. One monster at a time. But yes, I would agree that you probably do need some damage on CP for this to work better.

[meager mauve]

Unfortunately my WGB hits are almost always going to be rune-gapping, as I'm in a random low level guild for right now. However I tried to pick the ones that had the toughest-looking defenses.

1.) I made a mistake. Tesa/Racuni could have been def broken after Cami vio procs and then Carc would hit them. I did focus carc and hit him with oblivion though. I thought it was alright, but it's definitely dangerous. Probably better to run 2 water + Windy or 2 water + random fire tank

2.) I liked this comp, though the healer was a little rough. Maybe better to pick something like Aaliyah.

3.) This seemed like a good spot to use Jaara. I can one shot the Laika, hopefully kill Woosa afterwards, and then FY has to 1v3, which would be kind of hard.

4.) Seemed like a fine Lushen candidate.

5.) This was a weird defense. Praline/Songseol/Shren wouldn't work because of Triana passive. I decided to Bolverk, but I was already using Windy somewhere, so I used Lora instead. This seemed to work out pretty well. There was always a def buff on every monster, which made it really hard for Theo to deal a lot of damage quickly. Plus I had cleanses and heals. Seemed okay, though 3-4 vio procs from Theo might have killed Lora.

6.) Snipe Lora, then FY. Pretty simple.

[vale jay]

yeah 1 is bad

hmmm #2 seems very scary

[meager mauve]

7.) I thought this was a decent Julie candidate. Speed leads are even but Bernard has higher base speed.

8.) Honestly just saw this comp and thought if I took Laika then no matter what the turn order was, Kahli couldn't kill Laika. Turns out it was tuned poorly, but worked out well. Kahli hit S2 on Laika and did nothing.

[vale jay]

i think for #2 you want to use yeonhwa

i feel like this defense is weak if you just yeonhwa and put two fire units

[meager mauve]

9.) I think this comp was risky now that I look at it. FY can get def broken by all 3 of the enemy comp and with a couple vio procs I can lose this easily.

[vale jay]

maybe yeonhwa tesa racuni?

[meager mauve]

10.) Kill Carc -> Auto

[meager mauve]

Ah, that's actually a great idea. I hadn't considered yeehaw.

[vale jay]

i'm sure 3R is fine
4R is good
5R is interesting

i dont see anything wrong with it, seems fine

hmmm 6R isnt right

lora is 120 base

i think rina skogul autos this

hmm

rina skogul

something with immunity as a third

[meager mauve]

Oh dang. I forgot about that. Even with Praline lead I'm at a disadvantage.

[vale jay]

you don't need it

but

a bit safer

i'd do 0 res rina