Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[fiery geode]

I can't run any fire damage dealers or even fire bruisers because Miles can torch them.

You're correct you can't run fire bruisers but not because miles can torch them, its because then carc can torch them

Skogul/Rina/Riley

you're correct about the wind water format but come on man... the list of options isn't that big

and you pick all the wrong ones?

wind tank water bruiser water support

there is no instance where chloe kat works

so the popular counter is haegang comps

like rica haegang nora

or louise haegang tesa

if you want to do a true turn 2 bruiser your best bet is feng aaliyah leo

or lulu instead of aaliyah if you dont have

otherwise there's like a million different cleaves you can do, some fancier than others

the most popular cleaves are going to center around mihyang/garo + draco

the best version probably is mihyang draco taor, killing sav twice first

but there's slightly worse versions with many alternatives to taor

basically just sniping something immediately and then 3v2

this def is like the 5* MST of 2016

[meager mauve]

I've seen a few instances at this level where Haegang has been used. I've got one so I think that's my next build. That's a good solution to this one too.

[young nexus]

khmun kona mara snipe carcano

[fiery geode]

great at lower levels, gets riskier the higher up you go as people might not be building super squishy carcs anymore

mara does not ignore def or anything

[vale jay]

My favorite counter to this is khmun Kona mara :)

Oops someone else posted already

So that works but if you don't want to do that you can do vigor windy elucia, it's quite safe when well runed but a bit heavier on rune quality

Xiong fei lulu yeonhwa

Is f2p and replicable

Go for tesarion first

I don't like any Leo counters at all but you can try and do what works best for you

Feels like this defense is designed to beat leo

But yes mihyang draco taor of course if you have taor is excellent

Personally if you are low rune quality haegang -> taor -> xiong fei -> everything else from my experience

There's mihyang praline KEN which is a f2p cleave angle but I don't care for it and the cleanup is sus as fuck

[meager mauve]

This Siege I was only able to get 9 attacks in. I didn't have a chance to use my 10th. But I think most of my attacks were on standard defenses. I was rune gapped pretty significantly on my losses, and my wins I think I managed to pick comps that felt pretty safe.

[vale jay]

TWL user

[meager mauve]

It should be noted that on #4, it was a trap. Shaina/Martina were will/shield. If I had known, I wouldn't have run Julie into it.

[vale jay]

Shield/will is not trap :D

Will is trap

Shield buffs Julie damage lmao

[meager mauve]

Technically Will also buffs Julie damage, but shield only buffs it until the shield is gone, right? Then the damage drops because that buff is no longer applied to the monster?

Regardless, I felt like all but #4 and #9 were all pretty standard and I was just rune gapped. #9 I'm not sure if I won because the comp was actually good or because they chose a terrible comp that could have been beaten by Rina + almost anything.

1.) TWL into CVT. Pretty standard.

2.) I take this comp into MST a lot. The Shaina outsped my Raoq without a speed lead. Just rune gapped.

3.) LCL seemed great here because no speed lead plus it is slightly faster than my Raoq.

4.) Trapped with Will.

5.) Tetra into Nora is really good. Tesarion helps kill Byungchul. Probably could have brought someone other than byung, maybe Hraes? I just picked a good wind bruiser.

6.) I ran BCI into this but I forgot that Martina steals beneficial effects. I got extremely lucky that she did not steal defense buff. This one was shaky. I shouldn't run this into MST anymore.

7.) This one I had seen my guildmate lose to it and I knew that Racuni could outspeed with a Mihyang lead. I had Cov snipe Shaina immediately. However, I made a mistake and I focused Mihyang instead of Martina afterwards, and Martina killed Covenant. If I had instead focused Martina, Mihyang woudl have only hit Racuni and Covenant could have finished this one off. Poor play on my part. I think the comp works with the information I had.

8.) I attempted this one because I'd seen it work before. I think it works if I'm not severely rune gapped. This guy's Shaina is on 4 tick and does a ton of damage. He had several defenses that got 5-10 wins in a row. Most likely a retired G3 account. I don't know if this offense is that bad into this comp. I think it works, I was just rune gapped hard.

9.) I'm not sure if this was a good comp, or they just had a garabage defense that could have been beaten with Rina + anything. I feel like it's the latter. No def breaks, no heals, and no strips. Rina never took any damage, and Eshir stripped any buffs Ophilia spit out.

[meager mauve]

Also on a slightly unrelated note, should I start looking to reapp my Swift runes? I've been farming GBAH and I think I have quite a few Swifts that could be reapped, but I've been told over and over not to do it, and to save them for Vio runes.

And since my fastest Swift set is only +192 or something, I really need faster sets if I want to reliably cleave at higher levels of Siege.

[meager mauve]

And I just now used my final attack:

Seemed pretty easy Lushen. Mihyang cleans this up nicely and Lushen can't really die after Ongyouki dies because Nora doesn't do enough damage and Nana never targets him.

[vale jay]

No don't do this

If you saw me asking about it and it made you consider

Do not

Reapping swift sucks and is only for people that have a LOT of high end violent runes

[meager mauve]

Oh that's funny. I didn't even see you were asking. This was just something I was thinking about as I was going through my cleaves and documenting speeds and how close to ticks they were.

[vale jay]

And honestly

I shouldn't be reapping swift but cleave is the way

haha, nah just hit the giant more

[meager mauve]

Okay. That's good to know. I've been worried that with how little I've reapped that I'm missing out on critical upgrades.

[vale jay]

No don't worry

Also just to give you some confidence

Had my first siege back and played in apoc

Had quite literally 10 bad hits and went 8-2

:D

So

Try not to be too hard on yourself - learn a lot and keep going, know we spoke about this before

[meager mauve]

Hey, that's better than me this week. 6-4, and I know I was rune gapped on 3 of the 4. 8-2 is me on a good day. hahaha

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate your willingness to help me out, despite my obvious lack of understanding.

[vale jay]

Remember how I said before you will do bad offenses
I promise you I have surpassed every bad offense you have ever done with my worst hit from yday X)

[vale jay]

That's OK. You are new. Start with reasonable expectations and keep working towards learning and improvement

Here check

#8

Worst offense you will ever see

[fiery geode]

the hwadam is much easier than triana or mihyang

should have saved the julie for a mihyang variant

one of the oldest counters to twins is just light tank + 2 water, it wasn't too safe if the +1 was another dd like cd triana but its much safer vs hwadam

for example you could have used shamann here and then some combination of tractor elucia tetra lulu etc

against the mihyang ones you should just cleave

also you should be patient and hit some other defs if you're running out of counters

that's what a guild is for

[meager mauve]

This is a good point. Poor habits from my old guild where everyone just used all their attacks all at once.

[meager mauve]

First WGB today.

1R - Poorly thought out. Miles does damage that ignores defense. Very silly of me. He vio procced 4 times right at the start and killed Tractor immediately. A better comp probably would have been Windy, Vigor, Elucia/Lulu.

2R - Sniped Manon first with Copper, then it's basically a free win after that.

3R - Originally I wanted to Lushen this, but I wasn't sure if thats possible. This felt pretty safe. Hraes was tanky enough to tank Odin hits, and he did enough damage to kill Odin really quickly. Juno was to help strip, and she was going to get a lot of debuffs from Bastet and Woosa.

4R - Honestly I thought this defense was pretty bad, and it felt like Tetra just basically makes it so you win. I picked Elsha for a defense break, but I don't know if that was a wise choice.

5R - I made a very silly mistake here and thought that Minato wouldn't be able to kill Tesarion very easily. I did not bring a cleanser/healer though, which means I was destined to lose this no matter what. Poorly thought out comp. I think a better comp would have been something like Kunite, Rina, Roid, or maybe Kunite, Elucia, Roid.

Second WGB today

1R - This just seemed like a solid comp. Tetra heals/cleanses taunts from Rakan, Kunite tanks Bolverk + Camilla, and as long as Skogul gets hit from Rakan, he's going to be able to kill them all with S2

2R - I liked this idea with Ophilia + Haegang. I took advice from earlier of using a haegang comp, but I modified it instead of using Rica, I used Ophilia with the runes from a support. I figured the buffs would make Haegang passive work well, and Nora could strip Lora buffs as well as apply DoT. Worked exactly as I intended.

3R - I made sure to take my time and play this one out in my head. I thought about each possibility: Boost Dozer and kill 1 of the 3, then who Copper kills, Boost Copper and kill 1 of the 3, then who Dozer kills. I ended up thinking that boosting Copper to kill Seimei, then having Dozer kill Feng Yan would give the best chance of winning. Seimei having the possibility of stealing a buff from my Bulldozer meant she had to go first.

4R - I thought this comp would work pretty well. Byung strips, Tesa has oblivion for Guillaume (though not super necessary) and Riley has lots of heals. I think on this one I just had him outruned. I wanted to Julie this, but because Cichlid has 3 more speed after lead + summoner skill, it meant I couldn't. Also Guillaume could have survived and killed my team.

5R - This seemed like an easy Lushen target. However, I did note that Moore could technically be a Swift threat, since he's got strip + CC in his S2. I am not sure if Moores are ever built on Swift normally though, and I figured it's either my fastest set wins or it doesn't.

I also think Julie might have worked here too, and it probably would have been safer since Bernard has a higher base speed with same lead. I was just using the checklist of "can I lushen this" and since I answered yes I just went with Lushen.

(My apologies for the huge amounts of text. I am just feeling like I'm starting to understand attacking a little better and I'm excited to see if my reasoning works.)

[fiery geode]

1r - this is fine, you actually thought the team well. its just that you probably dont have your tractor built that well. remember when we discussed tractor build (malite and kunite are similar) and how even though its def scaling, you should still stack a lot of hp on them

vigor is fine too, although the one bad thing about vigor vs miles is that vigor has buffs and that kind of feeds miles. still acceptable though to use vigor, just pointing out that its not like straight up completely better

3r - lushen is good. the def has no speed lead so you should be able to outspeed comfortably with mihyang teon lushen. the way it works is that even if lushen doesnt kill bastet or woosa, mihyang should follow up and klil odin again, and then you can 3v2

the team you ended up using... is very questionable. you may be underestimating odin damage here

4r - yea the def sucks and what you used was fine. if you want to more safely play the elements (i.e. your question about if elsha was the right choice), the better move was to use byung + fire support like racuni and then you're free to use elsha or any other ld or water bruiser

because then racuni tanks the chandra cami, byung tanks rakan, and your dd wont get hit

5r - the malite is kind of unnecessary here, minato def break will only land on fire and leo wont hit fire, so without def break leo isnt going to be doing much dmg

however atk buffed minato into def break will do a lot of dmg as you discovered

you can rina + 2 wind this easily or just cleave it the def sucks

[fiery geode]

1r - good comp, def sucks though no def break onit

2r - ophilia isn't as common as say louise or another dotter, but yea i guess this works

4r - do you know what cichlid does?

5r - lushen is good

julie is fine too

[meager mauve]

Cichlid can do a lot of stuff. S3 def breaks, attribute advantage, strips, skill cooldown reset. Cleanses and Shields as well.

[fiery geode]

the attribute advantage of s3 is the big part

it means she just uses it randomly, it can def break tesa and then your tesa can get nuked

would be safer if you used triana instead of riley

[meager mauve]

I keep thinking that since Tesarion has a damage reduction passive that he's basically invincible. Poor habit of mine because on defense he's typically anti-cleave.

[fiery geode]

depends on how you rune him

if you're runing him tanky, then sure

but if you're runing him as a bruiser with dmg then probably hes not that tanky

[vale jay]

5r Shren rina teon (any booster that isn't water really, you could even do praline lol) snipe ritsu press auto

If you have Shren on destroy it's (safer?) in case it's some insane shit Riley but I dunno

You could even just put a destroy set on rina and turn on netflix

If you don't have Shren you could use taru

Quite busy tonight so can't read everything but just wanted to drop that quickly

It's single threat defense

Eliminate threat and then you can auto

Tbh

I think rina skogul autos this lol

But yeah the main thing is identifying these single threat defenses

Because they exist for a very long time

If you can find a way to remove that single threat and have the remaining monsters tanked

It's usually quite comfy

[meager mauve]

I had almost written out an entire reply asking "should I make a fat Shren or a double snipe Shren (tuned to a Praline, for example)". Then I thought about this some more and realized that because Teon is going to be on my fastest set, it doesn't matter which build Shren is on, she will be slower than Teon anyway, so the boost will work with either build. Which then means that Shren should (ideally) be tuned to another booster to allow her to be used in multiple comps.

Which then opened my eyes to realize that Teon doesn't just have to work with a fat damage dealer. I hadn't even considered this, but it's a brilliant idea. Previously I had kind of restricted Teon to "Fat Sniper only". Thank you very much for this insight. 😄

[onyx hamlet]

place holder comment as im learning and want to follow

[fiery geode]

you can follow a thread without posting a message btw

[onyx hamlet]

ty

[vale jay]

oh but it's OK to do just pure fat snipe shren here too! you can do either

i was thinking of you during siege today and wanted to share something

i faced a really shitty defense and was wondering how you'd hit it

I think if you successfully solve it you'll be demonstrating a skill i've been trying to teach you

[meager mauve]

OH YEAH! This would be awesome for me. Fire away!

[vale jay]

here you go

[meager mauve]

My initial thought is just to Lushen. Minato and Kass both seem like they're squishy and Riley is Riley.

However, if I were to bruiser, I'd probably go something like Kunite as my tank, since Minato is the only def break on the whole team and he's single target. Only problem is that Kass ignores defense, meaning I can't just pick Kunite and hit auto.

I like Byungchul since his passive makes it harder for Kass to one-shot him. Problem is if she gets enough stacks of her S2 she might still one-shot regardless just because of ignore defense.

[vale jay]

Kassandra is fire

I guess you could bank on mihyang S2 strip

But ehhhh

I don't like this

[meager mauve]

oh right, vamp.

[vale jay]

It's not a bruiser comp but it does involve a tank

[coarse valve]

Would Tiana galleon pos work?

[meager mauve]

No, Minato would shield and Kass would survive still.

[vale jay]

Minato only shields when she gets hit

Oops

The answer is possibly but I wouldn't risk it

[meager mauve]

Poseidon would hit Minato, he'd survive, and then Tiana wouldn't be able to finish him off with S2

[vale jay]

The comp I have is f2p

[meager mauve]

I thought about Gally/Tiana too.

[vale jay]

What do you mean?

If you miss def breaks Minato can live, or if it's some weird build

[meager mauve]

that too.

[vale jay]

Minato doesn't start in hand state

[meager mauve]

I was just thinking in absolute best case scenario it's still not working. Def broken Minato might survive Poseidon S3, then shield, and Tiana couldn't finish him off.

Oh wait

I'm dumb

Tiana S2 is AoE

He only shields single target

Nvm. That's a part of his passive I forget all the time.

[coarse valve]

dont forget galleon s2 aswell

its rng tho if u dont land pushback or def breaks

there is probably a better comp

[meager mauve]

Okay so here's the part I'm stuck on:

[vale jay]

I don't like Poseidon in general

[meager mauve]

I can't tell which monster I need to tank: Kass or Minato.

[vale jay]

But for new players it's great

[meager mauve]

On the one hand, Kass is really powerful and has the potential to one shot.

[vale jay]

You could choose either

[meager mauve]

On the other, Minato can Def break.

And he's typically really high damage.

What if I did something like Cov, Kunite, Lulu?

Kunite tanks Kass and Minato, Cov can one shot Kass and Minato, and Lulu can sustain Kunite.

Then Kunite has destroy to make it so that Cov can eventually kill Riley.

Cov can also hit through Kass invincibility.

[vale jay]

No :)

Kassandra ignores defense

I can just tell you if you'd like

[meager mauve]

No. I want to figure this out.

[vale jay]

haha

I am the same way when someone gives me one of these

If you want a hint let me know

Here, to make it a bit easier
My solution (I actually used one unit different, but this would be better) is
One nat 2, one nat 3, one 2a nat 3 (this is the unit I did not use but is largely interchangeble)

I think that should make it a lot easier considering it involves a nat 2 :D

There are many solutions and you may arrive at an equally valid one

[meager mauve]

Now I'm starting to think my idea around this defense was entirely wrong from the start. hahahahahaha

The nat 2 thing is throwing me for a loop. The only nat 2 I'm using at all right now is Taru.

But I don't think a Praline comp could work here.

Which is the only place I use Taru currently....

[vale jay]

The 2a is interchangable for taru

:D

Also that's untrue

I saw you use another one

[meager mauve]

Another comp with Taru in it?

I've only ever used Taru with Praline.

I've used Praline with other snipers, but never Taru outside of Praline that I can recall.....

Anyway, that's sidetracking.

So Tractor/Kahli/Kona seems to fit that description, but I don't see what Kona does other than be a resurger.

Kahli does seem pretty good though if you can manage to resurge Kahli first with Kona and then use invincibility to tank Minato + Kass.

Problem is that I don't think Tractor can kill Minato fast enough.

Nah, that's 2 2a mons so doesn't fit that description.

I'm going to feel so dumb after this. hahahahahaha

I've got to put my son down for bed, so unfortunately I don't have much more time to think about this at the moment. I'll concede this time. :/

[vale jay]

Do you want me to tell you or not?

Before ent would give me these and I would be stuck for weeks

The longest one took me three months to solve I think

[meager mauve]

I was about to, but actually I'll think while I'm putting my son down. Maybe a fresh perspective could work.

And no SW in front of me so I have to think using my brain. XD

I'll get back to you on it.

[outer warren]

I've been seeing a bunch of these too recently idk where it came from lol

[vale jay]

There was an interesting one that we had a super duper elegant solution to

[outer warren]

What def

[vale jay]

Fire kass Riley theomars

The solution is

[outer warren]

Tiana cp for sure

[vale jay]

Cov Kahli songseol is seamless

[outer warren]

I assume that's water string but I have no idea what she does lol

But elements make sense

[vale jay]

She blocks buffs

Shoot theomars

Kassandra will s2 Kahli during invinc

[outer warren]

Oh buff block is cool there

[vale jay]

Then Kahli s2 and kill kassandra

[outer warren]

There's no res check either right

[vale jay]

Nothing

[outer warren]

Neat

[vale jay]

It's songseol tuned to Kahli speed buff

[solar finch]

Just a quick hijak @vale jay do you think ermeda is able to tank the first cass snipe with atk buff?

[outer warren]

Surely -50% is one metric fuck ton

If byung could survive Sonia with -50 then

[solar finch]

.

[vale jay]

Where spoiler tag

[solar finch]

||Just thinking about another way, that you can use ermeda as tank and use teon with Shren||

[vale jay]

||This is the answer though yes but I opted to use a different birb||

||shren ermeda Kona||

[solar finch]

||I was also thinking about it, but I felt like if things go very very wrong for some reason. You still have revive of teon||

[meager mauve]

Could Megan Cov Kahli work in roughly the same way? Only difference is Cov has to S1 through Kass invincibility.

[vale jay]

||yeah this is fine too - both are valid I think. I actually ran my Kona on violent at +207 the Kona also tanks Riley this way for what it's worth||

[vale jay]

No it needs to be songseol

Theomars needs to die turn 1

You are misunderstanding I think

[meager mauve]

Oh I misread.

Yes, it must be songseol. Makes sense.

[vale jay]

Kahli s3 -> songseol s3 -> covenant kills theomars -> Riley s3 (or not) -> Kassandra s2 -> whoever didn't move moves -> Kahli s2 (songseol s3 is still active, so no invincibility for Kassandra either)

[meager mauve]

Yes. I misread and didnt see you were referring to Theo there.

I thought it could work with the Minato one though. Problem is if Riley vio procs I lose I think.

[vale jay]

You could do the same comp though, sure

It would be way overkill but it would work

How come Riley vio procs win

The other thing is you are a lot less likely to get damage checked on a theomars

Than most other units

Cov speed tuned to speed buff isn't exactly super high damage

[meager mauve]

Oh I thought I had an idea with Kugo but his passive only works if he's already 50% health. 😦

Man I was excited about that one....

[vale jay]

What the heck is a kugo

[meager mauve]

Fire Golem. hahahahahaha

[vale jay]

Is this the forbidden pr*z tech

[vale jay]

(this is a meme)

[meager mauve]

Okay, I just don't understand what I'm supposed to do.

See, I'm thinking about damage reduction passives, but you already said that doesn't work because I attempted to use Malite for it.

[vale jay]

I didn't say anything about that

You were saying you wanted to tank it with kunite

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah, sorry. Kunite.

[sleek wigeon]

Kunite (Fire Gargoyle)

Wikia

1. Stone Claws

Attacks the enemy to inflict damage that increases according to your Defense and stuns the enemy for 1 turn with a 30% chance. In addition, increases your Defense by 30%. (Accumulates up to 5 times)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%

Multiplier

1.8*{ATK} + 2.9*{DEF}

2. Destructive Claws

Inflicts damage on the enemy in proportion to your Defense, destroys the target's HP by the amount of damage dealt and provokes for 1 turn. Afterwards, you will be turned into a statue until the next turn starts. While you are a statue, you won't be able to move. But you will gain immunity against inability effects, receive 30% less damage and recover your HP by 15% when the statue state is removed. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.35*{DEF} (Fixed)

3. Statue of Protection (Passive)

When the battle begins or if your turn ends with 70% or higher HP, you will be turned into a statue until the next turn starts. The damage dealt on allies will be reduced gradually if the ally gets attacked with multiple hits when you are turned into a statue. This does not accumulate with other damage reduction effects. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

This is for multi hits only by the way

And kunite is generally built higher def rather than full HP to utilize his S2

[meager mauve]

I use him for the damage reduction passive on S2. I suppose if Kass moves before Kunite, which is highly likely, Kunite will die before he gets that....

Wait wait wait. What's that one unit that jx9 told me would be the only monster he'd use to tank coco....

[vale jay]

👁️

[meager mauve]

Ermeda? That's a passive, not active skill.

And typically builds high HP so it isn't like ignoring defense will crush it.....

But that leaves me with the question of, if I'm just tanking Kass, how do I kill her and still manage to kill Riley?

Oh wait. I don't have to use Covenant.

OH

Wait, would Ermeda, Kahli, Teon/Kona work?

No, Kahli couldn't kill Minato.

Cov can't kill Riley

Taru?

[vale jay]

This is false

It just takes awhile

X)

[meager mauve]

Sorry sorry, MY covenant can't kill Riley

[vale jay]

It can

It isn't rune dependant unless you have a fat covenant with +1.2k atk and 150 crit damage lol

But yes you basically got it

Shren is definitely better than covenant here but

Sec

[meager mauve]

But how do I avoid Minato killing my sniper?

If I run Kona/Teon and Shren/Taru/Cov, they're all element neutral to Minato. He could just Vio proc after a def break and kill the sniper in one turn.

Especially if he's atk buffed from Riley.

[vale jay]

Oh yeah my brain

It does have to be covenant

Wait no

It doesn't

Long day

[meager mauve]

Oh wait, I'm dumb

[vale jay]

You shoot Minato first

[meager mauve]

You just snipe MInato

[vale jay]

lol

[meager mauve]

Yeah.

[meager mauve]

I kept having this idea that I needed to just 3v1 kass and kept just assuming I'd snipe Riley, so I skipped a logical thing there.

[vale jay]

So yeah Shren is better

[meager mauve]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[vale jay]

It doesn't matter though

It works fine either way

Nothing lives a fat attack buffed covenant without a damage reduction passive

And even then it requires a specialized build

[meager mauve]

You know when jx9 mentioned Ermeda a bit ago, he mentioned that Ermeda was rather niche.

[vale jay]

He is

[meager mauve]

And yet from then on, Ermeda has been mentioned as a possible tank 3-4 more times.

[vale jay]

This is his niche lol

:D

[meager mauve]

Which I think is just ironic

[vale jay]

Fire kass tank

Keep in mind

In modern siege he is practically unused

This defense is really bad

[meager mauve]

As a side note, that is why I didn't think of Ermeda right away. I immediately wrote Ermeda off in my head because "it's super niche".

[vale jay]

haha

[meager mauve]

At least I figured it out eventually. I just had to go past freaking Kugo. XD

Thank you for this exercise. It was a good way for me to think about how each fight would play out with each comp I tried.

[meager mauve]

Yesterday I made the egregious mistake of not taking my Siege hits seriously. We blue mapped, so my guild just said to "get the hits in" before Siege ended. I also wasn't able to make significant hits until later in the evening.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I went 5/5. And I know that I lost several from being lazy and not taking Siege seriously.

However, I learned the important lesson of taking all Siege seriously, even if it's just "to get my hits in"

10.) Angela resisted Poseidon pushback.

9.) Seemed like an easy Julie candidate. No speed lead, all pretty squishy. Both Laima and Minato were on Will and it still worked.

8.) Seemed pretty safe. Byung was only going to hit Rina unless he used S2, and Mo Long had to vio proc 3-4 times to kill either Racuni or Tesa.

7.) This comp was a test. I thought it would be pretty fun to have a Vritra comp into Eshir/Danu and it seemed to work alright. Vritra's revenge did so much damage that Eshir and Danu both died after hitting Vritra with multihits twice. Tetra was there to ensure he couldn't die, and Eshir was there for lead. I'm not sure the comp works super well though.

6.) From 6-3 were all where I wasn't attempting to take things seriously. Loss after loss from poor judgment. This one I figured Leo + Shamann would make it so that Xiana couldn't do anything and Lulu could provide sustain. Lulu got stunned and then def broken and then Xiana killed her. Lost pretty quickly after that.

5.) Figured Riley + Byung would give me lots of sustain/tankiness, and then Haegang would prevent Zen from stripping everything without severe consequences. I just got absolutely slaughtered here.

4.) This was a re-hit and I made a very stupid mistake. I didn't watch the replay to see which tick the Zenisek was on. If I had, I would have known that I had to put my Praline as speed lead to hit 5 tick and beat the Zenisek. At which point, I could have easily gone Cov -> Manon, Taru -> Zenisek and the match is easy after that. This was laziness. Nothing else.

3.) I thought this comp worked, but losing here made me realize that it doesn't. This is one of those "it's always worked before until it doesn't" comps. Copper did not have more defense than Manon and therefore did not kill her. I cannot use this comp into Manon anymore, as there's always the chance that Manon stacked more defense than my Copper.

2.) I liked this comp for a few reasons. I thought Chacha was a good pick because of S3 stealing Kinki attack. I thought Roid was great because he deals lots of damage with no crit. I liked Kunite to deal with the multihits from Mihyang and Cichlid.

1.) This was a pretty easy Lushen call. Speed lead but the only Swift threat I could see (Nyx) was only 3 speed higher than Teon, and with Mihyang as a higher speed lead + my Teon being on my fastest swift set, this seemed like a good Lushen candidate.

Overall, I've learned 2 important lessons: First, always take Siege seriously, even if you're "just getting your hits in". And second, if you lose, always watch the replay afterwards to gather as much information as possible if you're going to re-hit it.

[meager mauve]

Luckily my guildmates are very forgiving and called this siege "an experience-building opportunity." XD

[meager mauve]

As for my WGB hits this time around, I managed to go 10/0. 😄

My pick on #1 3R felt risky, and #1 4R I didn't really think I needed anything other than high health and a cleanser and I'd be fine. #2 5R I thought that they were all squishy minus CP, so Khmun could solo them. I just had Haegang and Racuni to support.

[vale jay]

#1 is horrible

Have we not spoken about CST?

[coarse valve]

Is that not haegang+dotter food

[vale jay]

#2 is easy Julie. Good job.
#3 is bad. Try again.
#4 is very bad. Try again.
#5 is standard.
#6 is good.
#7 is fine.
#8 is mediocre, but it probably is safe enough.
#9 is standard.
I don't even know what the #10 defense is so I'm not gonna worry about it

[fiery geode]

#10 doesn't actually look that bad of a def if you think about it

[vale jay]

Is that cheongpung

Or am I colorblind

[fiery geode]

it is cp

[meager mauve]

Specifically? I am not sure we have. I would have noted it in my list of "common defenses" if I did.

[vale jay]

Is this not free for dongbaek windy tetra

[fiery geode]

can you imagine anyone at this level coming up with dongbaek windy tetra

[vale jay]

I could have sworn we did

[vale jay]

OK that's fair

X)

[fiery geode]

it's a bit squishy of a def but honestly its pretty good, has aoe strip aoe def break and a really high spd threat

[vale jay]

You're right people don't know about julie here

[fiery geode]

it outspeeds any standard dova lushen or gal julie

[vale jay]

Are we talking about frigate?

[fiery geode]

yea

[vale jay]

He's +2 on both right

something like that

[vale jay]

no we did @meager mauve lmao

we talked about this before!

it's ok there's a lot to remember

[vale jay]

.

[meager mauve]

I didn't write it down. Completely my fault. I've noted it this time.

I've had I think every single string master mentioned at least once in this thread, and several many times. Dongbaek, Yeonhwa, and Hongyeon specifically have shown up multiple times.

I haven't built them. I haven't even looked into them at all. Should I start building them?

[vale jay]

yep

[meager mauve]

Okay. Are they all pretty much the same build? Support?

Vio, 100 res, as high speed as I can get, SPD/HP/HP or one of those HP's as defense?

[autumn crystal]

Read their skills

They do different things

[vale jay]

well

dongbaek and yeehaw very similar

they are built more or less the same haha

hongyeon is very different of course

she's a booster

[sleek wigeon]

Here are the requested monsters.

therionshadow1 - Yeonhwa

Full views:
#1 Yeonhwa
#2 Yeonhwa

#1 Energy, Endure

HP%, HP%, HP%

HP: 47160
DEF: 1813
ATK: 827
SPD: 107
CR: 26%
CD: 50%
ACC: 41%
RES: 104%
EHP: 353016
Effcy: 99.88%

#2 Will, Shield

HP%, HP%, HP%

HP: 46080
DEF: 1946
ATK: 825
SPD: 114
CR: 15%
CD: 54%
ACC: 21%
RES: 102%
EHP: 366382
Effcy: 108.66%

provided by SWARFARM

Here are the requested monsters.

therionshadow1 - Dongbaek

Full views:
#1 Dongbaek
#2 Dongbaek

#1 Guard

HP%, HP%, HP%

HP: 52964
DEF: 1963
ATK: 832
SPD: 156
CR: 21%
CD: 50%
ACC: 28%
RES: 29%
EHP: 424268
Effcy: 105.12%

#2 Energy, Will

HP%, DEF%, HP%

HP: 42879
DEF: 1982
ATK: 665
SPD: 166
CR: 15%
CD: 57%
ACC: 47%
RES: 104%
EHP: 346333
Effcy: 100.10%

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

hopefully this helps

[autumn crystal]

Should note this is one of the specific instances where vio is actively negative

[vale jay]

oh yeah

[autumn crystal]

You don’t want to proc out of using song

[vale jay]

this is like violent malite

[meager mauve]

Ugh. I've got a problem with this game right now and I'm getting really demoralized when I need to build new units.

It's really tough for me to enjoy building new units at the moment. I have basically maxed rune capacity, but all of the runes I'm keeping don't even get me anywhere near the required stats.

[vale jay]

you're fucked my friend

you will always be building units

[meager mauve]

And yet all of the ones I want to keep actually seem like good runes to keep.

[vale jay]

wait are you thinking the stats i have are required or what

also this is one of those cases where you may just not have a lot of runes laying around that look like this

which is fair

yeonhwa you actively want to not have any speed on

[meager mauve]

I'm demoralized because my runes reflect poor understanding of rune quality, and I'm not certain I have really learned runes that well.

[autumn crystal]

It’s an ongoing process

[vale jay]

congratulations you don't know the most complicated part of the game, much like 99.9% of the playerbase

[autumn crystal]

Don’t try to learn the whole game in one day

[vale jay]

not entirely

you have a partial understanding of something incredibly complicated

[meager mauve]

Well it's more nuanced than that. It's that the runes I'm keeping don't work and yet the stats are "good" in my eyes. It's that I feel like I've learned incorrectly I think.

[vale jay]

nah this game is just really hard

[meager mauve]

How is it possible that I have 1200 runes and I can't build a single fat DD that has higher CD than 150?

[vale jay]

i mean how much giants have you farmed

i didn't farm giants at all for a very long time

[meager mauve]

I am still farming it. I haven't stopped.

[vale jay]

yes but like how much have you actually farmed

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... I'm not sure to be honest. I usually farm during the day while I'm at work, but there's probably large gaps between when my 30 runs finish and when I start the farm again.

[vale jay]

okay

so like how long

years

months

or what

and how long

did you know which stats you're looking for

[meager mauve]

That, I can't give a definitive answer. Probably a year or so? But post PvE, only about 2 months...ish...

[vale jay]

while farming it

you're a wee baby

cute tiny little baby

be at peace

[meager mauve]

Well that's the part I think I'm struggling most with. For example, I know that Energy runes I'm looking for HP%/DEF%/SPD/CR (bruisers like khmun for example)/ACC

[vale jay]

well khmun you want destroy

not energy

[meager mauve]

But then if I see an Energy that rolls well into say, ATK, I always question if I need to keep it for something

[vale jay]

i will help you!

the answer is no

sell it

🙂

#1084154772493447258

[meager mauve]

The main issue being that I'm not certain if there's instances where a rune that rolls oddly will be used on a random monster I don't have or don't know about.

Anyway, all of this is secondary to the other part of it that is difficult:

[vale jay]

sell until you learn where it goes

or put on random monster

or ask question

because

like okay

here's a different mentality for you to have

how long are you gonna be playing this game

because realistically speaking

if you aren't planning on playing for another couple years

it doesn't matter
but if you are then you should be fine with it and understand you're going to continue learning

you're actively putting in effort and seeking to improve, that pays dividends

[meager mauve]

I'm not sure how long I'll keep playing. Ideally I'd like to get to a high-level guild and participate in some fun theorycrafting and stuff, but I am not certain I can really ever reach that considering I refuse to spend any money on this game.

[vale jay]

you can absolutely

but what's high level mean to you

like

top 50

top 10

top 5

or what

[meager mauve]

Making you lose against one of my defenses. 😉

[vale jay]

no i never lose in siege

i always win

[meager mauve]

Nah, probably just G3. Maybe not tournament level, but close.

[vale jay]

then you'll be fine

[meager mauve]

Tournament level seems like it requires a lot more effort and time than I think I have for this game.

[vale jay]

i started playing g3 siege with a hot garbage ass account

nah you can get to tourney without spending astronomical amounts of time on the game

it just makes it easier the more you farm and the harder you go

[coarse valve]

I dont want to say requirement but is there an incentive to go p2w when u are at tourney level?

[vale jay]

ent spent liek $10 on the game and was in malevolent

before he quit

a week ago

just to put that out there

mind you he's not normal

[coarse valve]

Yeah there are always gonna be an odd sheep

I just meant if we're looking at the whole picture

[vale jay]

he's an insane person and has managed to fully weaponize his autism (still learning how to do this with mine)

sure

there's a bunch of absolutely horrible players that spend astronomical amounts of money and thus get invited to high level guilds

but

if you actually put good effort into the game

you can definitely play at tourney level

[meager mauve]

The second part that really gets my goat with runes is that I'm not sure how to improve a monster's stats. With PvE, it was really easy. Did I just find a rune that has a bunch of stats? Awesome. Let's slap that on there.

PvP feels much more difficult, because the stats often feel very delicate. I need to get 100 CR, for example, but I need more ATK. If I find a rune that has more ATK, I often find that I then lose my 100 CR. So then I have to completely re-rune the monster to make sure sets aren't broken, etc. But then it turns out that the overall stats are worse just because I want to add more ATK with one rune.

[vale jay]

no one saw that

but in all seriousness

there's a very big difference between top 3 and the rest of the guilds playing in tourney, for instance

[meager mauve]

Which then makes me think "Do I really need to have rune requirements this absurdly high?"

[vale jay]

if you're motivated and hard working it's absolutely possible to reach heights

[vale jay]

you've been farming runes post pve for 2 months

[meager mauve]

This can really work with almost anything, but the problem for me specifically with this game is:

I'm an absolute tart. XD

I have a mental handicap with this game apparently, so I've got to overcome that as well, which is part of the fun at this point.

It's fun to get the seal of approval on my attacks.

[autumn crystal]

If you try to take some pressure off yourself it might help you think more clearly

There are lots of very experienced very knowledgeable players on this server

Who are extremely generous with their time and insights

But it can be like drinking from a fire hose

Go at your own pace so you don’t burn out or overwhelm yourself

[meager mauve]

Yes. This is something I've had a few people tell me, and it's hard because within 2 months of farming for PvE, I basically had a Vero that was ready for almost anything. So I feel like I must be doing something wrong if it's not like that all the time

[autumn crystal]

As long as the trend line of your knowledge is going up, you will make gains over time

[vale jay]

this is so funny

[meager mauve]

And that's just a personal thing, not really due to anything other than a mentality shift from PvE to PvP

[vale jay]

you too?

[meager mauve]

Oh actually, one thing that might make me start playing less is if I become good enough to eventually become an adviser.

That's one extremely lofty goal I've got. I love teaching people and I think being an adviser could be a lot of fun.

[vale jay]

i love to help people too

i've been here for way too long

i mean i actually was still watching your thread and giving you help after i quit lmao

the community in this game really keeps you in it

[meager mauve]

Thanks for the help. Sokkermax is correct. You guys are all very generous for helping me out.

[vale jay]

but yeah it's fine just have fun man

i love helping you too

i like watching you grow. it makes me happy.

reminds me a lot of myself when i was a lot newer. i'm still learning.

[meager mauve]

Question about prioritizing String Masters.

I need to build pretty much all of them. However, I do not have enough of them to skill all of them up fully. I think I have enough in storage to skill up one.

Which one should I prioritize for skill ups?

I have read through all of the skills, and here's what I think:

Hongyeon: Booster. Not really sure what comps she would work in or who she could counter. Seems like a more advanced booster that has better uses when I have a slightly deeper monster pool for cleaving.

Songseol: I think this is who I should skill up. The passive seems like it can be used against multiple comps and monsters, Theomars and Marsha come to mind immediately.

Yeonhwa (yeehaw?): Seems a little more niche, though I am not certain. This is where I am not entirely sure. Will I find better use/more use out of yeehaw than songseol? I'm not sure I will.

Dongbaek: I think I'd rather skill up Yeonhwa over Dongbaek. I feel like almost any place I could use Dongbaek, I could probably also use Yeonhwa... maybe.

Mirinae: I don't have her. Should I save my skill ups for her instead, and use the rest unskilled?

[fiery geode]

you should skill up dongbaek for toa hell lol

but if you really dont care about that and just want to focus on siege

yeonhwa 100%

weird that you think she is the niche one

everything else here is niche (not counting miri that you dont have), yeonhwa is super meta

id skill up a 3rd yeonhwa before touching any of the others

i hate songseol actually

she was popularized against odin comps, but they were bad because you could just end up not able to kill anything and then the song is over and then you die

yea she can be used against theo but it's quite hard to setup. you really won't see any good theo def that allows you to use songseol. because again... remember good defs have a spd threat

how do you plan to outspeed and play a song and still kill theo

and also a good def has more than 1 threat besides theo, so how do you make sure you can also not die to the 2nd threat even if you can kill theo

[meager mauve]

I haven't actually looked into ToA hell at all. I have seen (from the 1-2 times that I've bothered to look things over for it) that most of the time the easiest comps to rune require some monsters I don't have, so I haven't even thought about it. To be honest, I've just kind of assumed that's something I can't do until I get more monsters and higher rune quality.

I will start looking into that before I skill up any of the String masters then.

[meager mauve]

The reason I assumed it was more niche was because I felt like anywhere I wanted to use her, I could instead use Malite, as the passive seems pretty close to the same. The only big difference I noticed was that yeonhwa can get her damage reduction up by only getting hit once when not using it, whereas Malite needs to be hit a few times for it to refresh.

[fiery geode]

nah you're missing out on easy rewards, if you're at this stage working on siege

should be able to get 20* each month

[fiery geode]

theres lots of big differences, you mentioned a very important one

that malite needs to take a turn to do anything

whereas yeonhwa can be triggered without you having to move at all

[meager mauve]

Oh does it trigger when it isn't even her turn?

I just made the assumption it woudl only play on her turn.

[fiery geode]

yeonhwa also helps your entire team, via the atk break she puts on all enemies

[meager mauve]

Okay, so that's where the wording is a little strange to me. It says "Until the next turn starts" and I wasn't sure if that meant next turn for the monster or next turn in general

But now that I think about it, ATK break is applied like normal, it's not some non-visual effect like Mirinae's buff.

That then leads to my next question, in which cases would I want to use Malite over Yeonhwa? or is Yeonhwa just going to be a better choice every time?

I'm thinking perhaps Malite would be more useful if they have a high single-target damage threat that doesn't ignore defense, like say a Masha?

[fiery geode]

malite is a bit better into monsters that don't really have atk scaling

for example a def like clara eshir vritra

eshir is mostly hp scaling dmg

vritra dmg comes a lot from dots

so the atk debuff doesn't do as much

and you could potentially get more out of just malite chain provoking everyone

yeonhwa was suggested into tesa sav

that should make sense right, atk debuffed tesa sav is going to tickle you

[meager mauve]

Oh, and it works against vio procs too. They can vio proc out of immunity and then get attack broken on their turn instead of yours.

Meaning that if they have say a Riley, it's still possible you can attack break.

I hadn't considered those things before. That's super helpful!

[fiery geode]

yes, every time an enemy gets a turn if you have song playing, they will atk debuffed

it can still be resisted of course

but at least its 100% activation chance

and yes she starts playing the song not even on her turn

as soon as anything touches her it activates

i do use yeonhwa much more often than malite

[meager mauve]

Curious about this again. From what I'm reading in the FAQ, it looks like you need Bolverk for the team to work. I don't currently have him. Should I stil look at skilling up Dongbaek?

[fiery geode]

you can still use dongbaek without bolverk, but like anything else you should probably sit down and attempt toa hell first before deciding what to use or what to skill up

[young nexus]

hongyeon used in AO bomb team (seara hong tiana john), i think shes an atk buff + bar booster with highest base spd?
for siege i use her alot against chandra byung + ld def
songseol can be used with mihyang taor/barbara against sylvia/geldnir ophelia theo def, her base spd helps you to not get outspeed by swift ophelia
but this is probably too early for you

[fiery geode]

how do you use hongyeon against chandra?

and mihyang sonia taor/barbara against ophelia theo sounds crazy, you have no buffs...

like i'm sure it'll work most of the time against your average squishy theo but not all theos are built like that, plus nem can mess you up

[young nexus]

ramael judiah hongyeon shren, snipe the 3rd unit then 3v2, i like hongyeon coz she race like +7 against chandra

[fiery geode]

Ok that’s pretty cool

[young nexus]

the variation is like ramael/chandra - hong/racuni/chasun/riley/teon - eleni/shren/other snipe

[young nexus]

barbara mihyang can deal around 45k dmg without buff, and barbara boost up to 50% atk bar, also mihyang built with around 210 spd so i doubt nem theo is an issue

if the theo is specifically built to trap the offense then ill take the loss

[fiery geode]

theres lots of questions or weird things that feel like they can happen too, like are you running your DDs at +200 spd too? are they on will?

people don't need to try to specifically trap this one counter to trap it, like theo can just be built tanky hp/cd/hp as a generic def build

i dunno it just feels like this counter lands in the awkward territory where it'll work practically all the time at lower levels, but then you're building some pretty niche monsters on niche builds just for it.

and then if you are using this at higher levels then the possibility of traps and the offense failing increases dramatically

[young nexus]

yeah ofc that counter isnt the safest, probably third choice after bolverk team and feng leo team, besides im just trying to give op idea how to use songseol

[fiery geode]

i haven't legitimately used song in years

once i used her in a wgb against a shitty def just because it was "fun"

[meager mauve]

Your suggestions are much appreciated. I don't have almost any of the monsters you mentioned though, which tells me Song is definitely a waste of skillups in my circumstances. 😄

Last night I attempted a serious climb of ToAL, and I came to the conclusion that I probably jumped the gun slightly on PvP. My runes are nowhere near the quality they need to be for me to clear ToAL, and according to the guide, I need the higher quality in order to clear it, which in turn means that I can't G1 PvP "properly" (words of the FAQ).

I was unable to clear floor 2, even with just 1 condition. My monsters are not fast enough.

[meager mauve]

So while I will still be trying seriously to perform well in Siege, I am not expecting to have results until I get faster runes over the next few months. The fact that I cannot rune my monsters to 286 tick tells me I have a lot of work to do.

[meager mauve]

Okay, after going 1-4 in my first 5 attacks, I've decided I'm not ready for this level of Siege. My monsters are all way too slow to even have a chance at most of these defenses, and they are all G1 level.

Lost 2 cleaves because 1.) Praline wasn't fast enough and 2.) Lushen isn't strong enough. Lost 1 because my monsters were lapped, and lost another because they were lapped AND I made really poor decisions on monsters to use.

[vale jay]

What level of siege are we talking about?

Post hits

[fiery geode]

g1 siege is literally 95% of the entire population

it's a huge range, there's going to be a big variance in how strong your opponents are from siege to siege

don't get discouraged from just a few hits

[meager mauve]

Hits from today. Explanations on why I made dumb decisions in a few....

10.) Standard hit. IT'S IN THE GUIDE DON'T BE MAD. 😉

9.) Also standard hit.

[haughty siren]

I am not sure if my thinking is correct but i would rather use passive cleanser vs nora

[meager mauve]

8.) This one, I messed up. If I had boosted copper and killed Shizuka, I win it. I boosted Bulldozer instead and killed FY. I didn't read Shizuka's skills carefully enough. -.-

[meager mauve]

Yes. Tetra > Nora every time. I just didn't read my notes.

7.) This one seemed pretty reasonable to hit with this comp. Theomars was not going to get ATK boosted and as long as I kept taunting him with Roid he wouldn't def break Tesarion.

6.) Really safe. Seemed practically unloseable.

5.) This was a re-hit after I lost to it the first time. I figured I could at least kill Eivor and then Mihyang could finish off Chandra. I didn't kill any of them. I believe a stronger Lushen could have done it though... Maybe? Chandra is one of my weak points. I don't really have any great answers to him besides Rina.

4.) I felt like this comp should work, and it almost did. I think I just misplayed by not cleansing my monsters correctly with Triana.

3.) Praline was not fast enough.

2.) Seemed pretty reasonable. Juno will take CC from Rakan/Woosa and she can strip both of them. Theomars can hit anyone and deal good damage. Tetra passively heals the taunts from Rakan.

1.) I should have used Tetra here instead. Tetra beats Nora. I have it in my notes and I STILL ignored it. This comp was endlessly cc'ed by Nora and I lost. Extremely stupid.

50% winrate this Siege. 2 losses seemed preventable enough, so I could have had a 70% winrate.

This one I really got discouraged because there were TONS of defenses I couldn't touch. Chandra defenses in particular are extremely difficult for me to hit, and both guilds had their first 3 towers entirely made of Chandra defenses.

I also realized that my bruiser offenses rely heavily on having a good tank, and when I burn through Rina, Malite, and Kunite, I'm basically dead in the water.

[haughty siren]

Tetra was still hard to use here since she could die to dominic and rina would lose her purpose

[meager mauve]

I think I could have been okay if I used Tetra + Riley + some fire bruiser. Maybe Tesa or something.

[young nexus]

seara/dominic/xingzhe riley rina, rina will tank them all day long while the wind dd killing them one by one, target chandra first

[meager mauve]

Don't have any of those units. :/

[young nexus]

lushen this

[young nexus]

hmm ill check your swarfarm

or just use roid

as the wind bruiser

[young nexus]

how fast is your praline?

[meager mauve]

288 with speed boost. 268 without.

That's with all calcs done

[young nexus]

easy double snipe then 3v1 chandra

[young nexus]

is that on swift? so +168 is your fastest swift set?

[meager mauve]

No. I don't put Praline on my fastest set because I typically use Praline into Perna's. I think this is 3rd fastest.

My fastest set is +192

Which would put Praline at....

331

But my fastest set isn't tanky, so I couldn't use Praline into a Perna. I really like going Praline into Chandra/Perna/x comps because I can 3v1 the Perna and it never kills Praline.

But if I give Praline the fastest set, one vio proc and Praline dies, and suddenly I will lose the 3v1

[young nexus]

you should always use your fastest set, especially if youre still that slow, move them around

[young nexus]

praline isnt a tank and he is racing negative against chandra

[meager mauve]

True about racing negative. From what I've been told Praline needs to be tanky. Not a tank, but tanky.

[autumn crystal]

What’s your fastest set with tanky 4/6 mains? How much slower than your absolute fastest set?

[vale jay]

-10. Yes LCL is fine vs MST. It's probably 92-95% which is good enough.
-9. Standard.
-8. I'm confused. How come shizuka caused you trouble?
-7. I actually dislike this one. Theomars can easily proc and kill racuni on turn 1 or if you fail to get through Ophelia s3. This seems very dangerous.
-6. This is fine, the defense is very weak, no defense break so it's just a very straightforward win. Good job.
-5. I don't believe in lushening defenses like this. In general lushening byungchul is always very very scary. I wouldn't do this. This is a tough defense honestly. The biggest thing is it lacks cleanse, so this is abusable. I struggle against these style of defs too though (byung Brita) so don't feel bad about this loss. Still working out the kinks myself. Some people will do snipe comps. Mihyang Adriana Sonia is probably pretty safe (I don't think Brita will realistically survive Sonia) but that is very premium and not available to you.
-4. Again, this is a tough defense.
-3. This is a knowledge of the ancients kind of defense I feel. Normally my approach to Mo long is to just dagora but Sagar counters dagora. Triple snipe is workable but ehhhh. I think there's some simple bruiser solution. Would need to ponder more. There's a resident Mo long expert who wrote a 10 page document on him 2 days before he got nerfed who will probably have a much simpler solution to this than I could make
-2. I think praline is pretty good here, just make sure you don't leave woosa for last.
-1. This is almost correct, but you've forgotten our conversation.
Rina is a good option. We've talked extensively about Dominic tanks. Nothing changed. I like talc more, especially when there is a Nora involved who can strip rina.
Hraesvelg is not good. You get stripped. Juno is excellent. Tesa is not bad, but not as good as Juno.
Racuni is your go-to option here for support.

[meager mauve]

It is the set Praline currently has.

[meager mauve]

8.) Shizuka used S3 between my Bulldozer and my Copper, which means she gave Def buff to everyone. Copper couldn't ignore def on Shizuka with that def buff.

7.) I hadn't considered Ophilia S3, but I did think about Theomars. I wasn't sure how easy Theo could kill without ATK buff, and I figured Roid could taunt quite often. If Ophilia constantly had S3 up on Theo, that could have been bad. I agree it's a lucky break on my part.

1.) I'm not sure I understand the logic of Racuni for this comp. Can't Chandra + Nora kill Racuni? I feel like it's not that far off to expect 2 vio procs from Nora and 2 from Chandra and that seems rather dangerous for Racuni. Juno makes sense.

[fiery geode]

you're still not understanding that the biggest thing that matters in terms of whats dangerous or not

is the defense break

if something can be def broken, you should be scared shitless

if something can't be def broken, you have nothing to worry about

that is obviously a big generalization and there are exceptions

but i feel like a lot of times you just ignore that fact

[fiery geode]

?? how fast was your praline

you probably should start getting in the habit of just swapping your top swift set

this was a good team though otherwise. only thing would be i still dont like taru with praline as its a waste. should use kahli, or build a shren, or something like that

do you really not have any premium snipe options still?

[fiery geode]

no you shouldn't lushen byungs

[meager mauve]

Praline is 288 with leader, 268 without.

The problem though, is that my snipers aren't tuned to my fastest set, and I could just get cut anyway.

They're all tuned to Praline at 288, so I could put Praline on my fastest set, but if the defense has higher speeds than my two snipers, I'm basically toast anyway, right?

[meager mauve]

I'm working on a Shren. I just can't meet the speed requirements. Everything I build right now is too slow. Maybe I could swap the set on Taru onto Shren instead.

[fiery geode]

theres just something fundamentally wrong with the way you're farming or runing your units

i dont know what it is

you've been playing too long and putting in too much effort to still be struggling this hard with runing cleaves

its not easy of course

but the rune quality of your units is just still way below where they should be

i know we go back to this every time

but there is no other solution

a lot of these defs don't have any safe bruiser option

cleaving is the safest option

how are your reapps?

[meager mauve]

I don't think so, actually. I recall at one point that you mentioned that the length of time I farmed to finish PvE, I would need to farm at least that long for PvP, if not longer. I definitely haven't reached that point yet.

I believe for PvE I farmed for about 4 months, with probably about 1 month of that farming R5 for grinds and beasts for gems.

I've gone about 2 months farming GBAH?

Maybe 3 at this point. I have kind of lost track since I'm just endlessly farming.

[coarse valve]

Are you using any rune filter?

[meager mauve]

Still have plenty, but I'm not farming Vios.

[autumn crystal]

It’s 24 speed slower than top set? You said absolute fastest is +192, but fastest tanky set is +168. And you said it’s your 3rd fastest set. I’m asking how fast you can make praline on hp/def main slots 4/6 if you gave her access to every rune on your account

[meager mauve]

I am. Filtering out flat runes on 2, and any flats on 4/6 that do not have SPD.

[meager mauve]

Yes, actually. I suppose I could go through and see if that has changed, but I haven't had any luck farming Swift runes above 12 speed for the past few months.

The only difference would be faster runes that are not swift.

[autumn crystal]

So you can do broken 4/6 faster with hp/def main and rune swift on 1/2/3/5?

[meager mauve]

Maybe? Might also be that 4/6 Swift are fastest and broken is faster somewhere else.

[autumn crystal]

This sounds like you just aren’t hitting enough giants tbh. It’s a volume game to get at least max blues if not higher. Obviously quads and high triples will be rare

[meager mauve]

I actually have quite a few max blues, but max blues are too slow.

One of the problems I'm running into. I need to roll better than blue.

[autumn crystal]

Try right now to build praline as fast as possible with real mains on 4/6 and let us know how fast that gets her

[meager mauve]

And you're probably right. I am farming Giants pretty much exclusively, minus the daily mission every day.

[meager mauve]

Sure. Give me a bit to do some digging....

[meager mauve]

HP slot 4, DEF slot 6. I can get about 24 speed faster. I stole 2 runes from different monsters for this, and I can attempt to figure something out for them. But again, I am not certain this matters, because my snipers are not tuned to this speed. I can put my fastest set on Praline, but as long as my next to move is still tuned to the old Praline build, I can still get cut and lose before my snipers move.

[autumn crystal]

At least now you know. This is your fastest tanky set and can be something you try to tune to when you build praline snipe units going forward.

[meager mauve]

One of the monsters I took the swift from was Tiana, and the swift rune I gave Praline previously doesn't work with Tiana, so I'll need to sort that out too.

[fiery geode]

tbh my fastest set is spd cd atk, i run it on praline and tank pernas just fine with it

another thing about tuning stuff to praline - even if you cant get both units tuned to praline

it helps to get at least 1 unit tuned to praline and the 2nd can be slower

because you can just snipe the potential swift set with that first unit, and then it doesn't matter if the 2nd isn't tuned anymore

[meager mauve]

THis is kind of what I was thinking of doing anyway. Setup my Cov to be tuned and then snipe the swift threat.

[meager mauve]

Interesting. I'll have to see what kind of stats I can get with my fastest set on Praline. Maybe it will be tanky enough...

[fiery geode]

you're not tanking a perna forever. just a few shots until you can clean it up with your other 2 dd

this is also an area where even though my runes are "cd atk" they are still well gemmed and grinded

and i still have like +15k hp and +600 def

[vale jay]

Ahhh. This makes more sense.

[meager mauve]

Which I could have easily seen and won if I had just played this one out in my head properly. Though, to be 100% honest, I forgot that Shizuka gives buffs on S3, so I might have missed that. I'm still too cocky that I know what monsters do, and then I forget.

[fiery geode]

yea you really have to know the skillsets of everything and think of any possible thing that can happen

[meager mauve]

1.) Seemed like an easy Lushen target.
2.) Tetra basically makes Roid useless here since she can't be taunted.
3.) Tesa for damage, Nora for strip, and Lulu for support/heal. Poor defense though because of no def break.
4.) Leo to counter Miles, Juno to tank Miles and strip Ophilia, and Riley to heal both.
5.) Thanks to some advice, I now realize this is the worst choice I could have made.

1.) Again, easy Lushen target

2.) Karnal survived with 1 HP. I killed Louise, but only after she cut, so it was an easy 2v3 with Cami + Karnal. In hindsight, this comp really isn't a great idea. Probably better to run something like Tesa/Nora/Lulu like I did before.

3.) This was incorrect speed tuning. Kahli moved first, not Covenant. Manon tanked Kahli's first S2 which led to Covenant dying to Dominic. If Cov had moved first, Kahli would have one shot Dominic and this is an easy 3v1 since Masha can't kill Praline instantly.

4.) Malite can't die to Perna, Khmun/Racuni is a great pairing.

5.) Dias seemed like the perfect counter to Benedict, and Byung strips Woosa buffs. Tetra was there as a healer/cleanser for Benedict. I wanted to Julie this, but unfortunately with the Susanoo lead + Woosa's super high base speed, there was a chance it wouldn't work.

[haughty siren]

please tell me a single argument that it was decent julie target

there is no way you can win that with bernard galleon julie unless they are unruned

[meager mauve]

I figured if they were not on Will, the def break + Julie damage would do enough to kill Jeanne + Abellio, and Theo would be in a 1v3.

[haughty siren]

what exactly did you not understand from this comment

[haughty siren]

in your dreams maybe

[meager mauve]

Nothing. I forgot, to be honest. I've just had this work several times before, so it's a bad habit.

One that I need to stop immediately.

[haughty siren]

even if it would somehow made sense, why would you use galleon lead there

[meager mauve]

Would you believe me if I said I forgot Julie even has a leader skill?

[haughty siren]

sure, but be sure to remember what jx said in regards to julie next time, would save you a lot of losses

cannot count on enemies not runing their stuff properly

[meager mauve]

I also constantly feel like I'm doing something wrong if I'm not using Julie somewhere.

Because of how much I've been taugh to cleave, if I end up cleaving only once out of 10 WGB attacks, I feel like I'm missing some really easy wins with cleaves.

So then I just try to shoehorn one in. Bad mentality.

(By the way, this is NOT a way to blame the guides, this is an admission of poor thinking patterns on my part)

[haughty siren]

it's fine not to use julie in wgb, if you really want to do it that much you can always change enemy if that's possible

[meager mauve]

Not really "want" as much as it is "I must be doing this wrong because I'm not cleaving"

[fiery geode]

there are many different cleaves you can use

you are doing something wrong if you are not cleaving at all

you are not doing something wrong if you don't specifically use a julie cleave in a set

i wouldn't have used julie on any of the defs from the 1st set

second set though both 1r and 5r are good julie targets

[fiery geode]

louise outsped your imesety?

this is a good team btw

if louise outsped you or karnal survived dozer, it's a rune issue

[fiery geode]

correct, this is an excellent team and you only lost due to wrong turn order

[fiery geode]

khmun racuni not good pairing here into perna

nana has aoe def break

khmun or racuni can both get 3v1'ed and malite can end up not tanking anything

you have to use water, not fire supports with malite against fire dd

[meager mauve]

No, Louise cut between Dozer and Copper.

[fiery geode]

even if woosa outspeeds you and s3s julie team should still win

[meager mauve]

Ah shoot. I forgot about Nana def break. I keep forgetting because I tunnel vision on her res passive.

[fiery geode]

??? who did you kill first and with who

[meager mauve]

I boosted Bulldozer with Imesety and then S3'd Karnal. Then Louise cut, then Cami cut.

[fiery geode]

well obviously louise "cut"

you can't even call that a cut

cut refers to some passive or nem that breaks your speed tuning and changes turn order unexpectedly

dozer imesety copper is not designed for your entire team to move before the enemy

[meager mauve]

Ah. My mistake. I thought it just meant going between your monsters.

[fiery geode]

you take first turn, kill something, then the entire enemy team (remaining 2 monsters move)

then you move again

you need to think it through

you get your choice of who to kill first. but once you kill something, the other 2 monsters will move before you get to nuke again

you have to kill the monster that can mess up your 2nd dd from killing something

usually it's a stripper. but louise can also throw up shield and allow a unit to survive

so you have to kill louise first

neither cami or karnal can do anything to you

didnt you make this same mistake last time against shizuka too

[meager mauve]

I did. However, my thought process was along the lines of "Karnal seems to really be the only major damage threat. Louise can't kill anything." And that was as far as I went. I didn't consider Louise throwing up the shield and surviving the Copper S3.

[fiery geode]

the benefit of copper dozer is that it's a snipe/cleave comp but your dds are actually tanky

there is no such thing as a major damage threat against copper dozer

(unless it has strip/def break, or ignore def, etc)

[meager mauve]

Really? Despite shield + immunity being up?

[fiery geode]

theres no way people are runing tanky susano benedict here

dont forget that buffs increase julie damage

[meager mauve]

Does Chilling need to be fully skilled to be successful?

Or am I okay to build one without skilling him up completely?

[fiery geode]

What are you using the chilling for

[meager mauve]

I'd like to use him for defense. Particularly, I'd like to replace Vigor in my CVT defense with Chilling so that I can put Vigor in a khmun/vigor/Skogul defense instead.

[meager mauve]

I also want to ask about a defense that I did not hit, but that I believe I had a good setup for:

I think Tesarion, Byungchul, Tetra can beat this. Focus Berghild first and then Moore/Rakan can't kill Byung/Tesa with Tetra cleansing the taunts.

Tesa oblivions Berghild, and the only real danger is if Berghild targets Tetra and lands def break with S1, and then Moore vio procs

[fiery geode]

At this point I don’t think it needs to be said to not use unskilled monsters on def, but

Don’t use unskilled monsters on def

[fiery geode]

Not the worst team but you’re still going about it the wrong way

What’s the first step to consider?

[meager mauve]

First, we consider threats. I view all of these monsters as threats, since they can all deal significant damage. However, if I were to say the biggest threat, it would be Berghild since he gets so many turns so often, and also has a neutral element to everything but dark.

Second, we think about def breaks. Berghild is the only def break on this team.

The problem with the next step that I'm having is that Berghild is neutral to all regular elements, meaning that I'd need to take a dark monster to force targeting. But I can't rely on that either, because if Berghild def breaks say, Dias, then both Moore and Rakan will focus Dias instead.

So I'm not entirely sure how to handle a light element single target def breaker.

[haughty siren]

I thought first step was "can you cleave it"

[meager mauve]

I don't think I can cleave it safely, since Berghild is a swift threat.

Berghild could also cut between buff monsters and cleavers because of his passive.

[fiery geode]

If you bring a dark tank then at least only the dark tank needs to be built super tanky

Even if the others are potentials damage threats, it’s a considerably smaller threat on non dark units since they can’t be def broken

So that means you can bring 1 super tank that’s dark, and then you can use 2 other units that are just bruisers

If you don’t bring dark, now all 3 of your units have to be tanks.

[meager mauve]

Siege today was extremely brutal. We recently moved to G2, but we got matched against a guild that just recently got kicked from G3, so they were extremely strong.

Going 5/5 against a guild this strong is alright in my book. My last 3 attacks were very rushed because we were near the end of Siege and I just wanted to get my attacks in.

1.) I saw this recommended somewhere around here. I can't remember where. I tried it out myself and it worked brilliantly in my tests, so I ran it here. My guildmates thought it was weird running it (because of no leader skill), but then when they saw the results against a defense that had already succeeded twice, they relented.

2.) I felt like this comp worked well enough. Only def break is on Suiki, and Kunite can protect against the extra hits from Suiki. Hraes can deal tons of damage, and then Tetra heals. Worked well enough, but took a while. Also got a little risky because my Hraes isn't runed super well.

3.) I thought this comp would work because I figured I could just taunt Molly/Triana and they would never cleanse. Unfortunately I forgot that Molly's glancing hit applies to Roid too.

[fiery geode]

In my book I look at if you used the right teams and builds or not. I don’t care as much about actual win/loss results. This is what I tell my guild too

[meager mauve]

4.) I didn't read Kahul's skills carefully enough and missed the part where he can remove beneficial effects. Lesson learned.

5.) I figured this comp could work (I don't have a Shren built otherwise I woudl have run Shren instead of Taru). Cov snipes Carc, Taru/Shren snipes Leona, and then 3v1 Gapsoo. It was pretty close actually. I think I got lucky, not that I made the right choice.

6.) I struggle with Miles tremendously. I don't know how to handle him properly without running something with Leo. Thinking now, Leo does NOT work with Tesa because tesa scales on ATK speed. I'm not sure what to do against comps like this with Miles. I can't really cleave, and if I bruiser, he can ignore defense anyway.

7.) Attempted a Julie. Got outsped by Zen. I will admit I do not know how Nicki is built, and I figured Zen would be a swift threat, so I used Bernard which as a 6 speed lead. Still too slow.

8.) At this point, I was just making attacks because we didn't have long before Siege ended, and I wanted to get my attacks in. I came up with this comp and it ended up winning, but I do not think it was because it was the correct comp. Eivor could have one-shot Racuni, and if she didn't, Craig could have finished the job. I got extremely lucky that Racuni lived. Malite tanked Carc really well though, and Carc hurt himself so badly on Malite that Theomars killed Carc immediately following his turn.

9.) This one I also believe I got rather lucky. I went fat Cov to snipe Zima, then figured that Khmun/Racuni could 2v2. What I forgot is that my Khmun is not currently on Destroy. I thought I had already done that, but I hadn't. I got extremely lucky that Cov crit Ritesh on S3, and then extremely lucky that after Cov S3'ed Cami, Khmun triple vio procced and killed her.

10.) Terrible, terrible Lushen candidate. Does not work at all. I was just getting my last hit in. I didn't have any monsters or comps to hit any of the defenses that were available to be hit, and by the time the other towers would finish rebuilding, Siege would have ended. So I just picked Lushen. I figured I could gamble for fun and see what happens. I would never pick this otherwise.

[fiery geode]

This is good as long as your imesety copper are both on will

[fiery geode]

This is fine, lulu would have been better than tetra here though

[fiery geode]

Hraes was a good choice since he does a lot of damage. Roid doesn’t, he’s a big waste here as his 2 main advantages are being tanky and doing cc. The tankiness is completely unnecessary and the cc is negated by running into 2 supports both with cleanses

Also can use chacha instead of tractor for better sustain

[meager mauve]

Understandable. I did believe Roid would do more damage than he did.

[fiery geode]

I think I would have saved carc for last and kill gapsoo Leona first

[fiery geode]

Tesa with Leo is fine, but tesa into carc not good.

Just do wind + 2 water you don’t need leo

[meager mauve]

I've thought about this, but I am worried Miles can just quickly tear through the water units because he ignores defense and moves so fast.

[fiery geode]

Cleave or use premium bruiser immunity comps

[fiery geode]

He still does way less damage than a DD hitting a def broken target. Any bruiser should be able to tank several hits from miles

[vale jay]

1. Yeah this is the way. I'm telling you this defense is a fucking meme dude. Ent was malding so hard when he saw mali run this in finals several seasons ago

I think most of the top end people just do olivia instead but I prefer this variant

2. What do you mean kunite reduced the multihits?

[sleek wigeon]

Kunite (Fire Gargoyle)

Wikia

1. Stone Claws

Attacks the enemy to inflict damage that increases according to your Defense and stuns the enemy for 1 turn with a 30% chance. In addition, increases your Defense by 30%. (Accumulates up to 5 times)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%

Multiplier

1.8*{ATK} + 2.9*{DEF}

2. Destructive Claws

Inflicts damage on the enemy in proportion to your Defense, destroys the target's HP by the amount of damage dealt and provokes for 1 turn. Afterwards, you will be turned into a statue until the next turn starts. While you are a statue, you won't be able to move. But you will gain immunity against inability effects, receive 30% less damage and recover your HP by 15% when the statue state is removed. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.35*{DEF} (Fixed)

3. Statue of Protection (Passive)

When the battle begins or if your turn ends with 70% or higher HP, you will be turned into a statue until the next turn starts. The damage dealt on allies will be reduced gradually if the ally gets attacked with multiple hits when you are turned into a statue. This does not accumulate with other damage reduction effects. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

"The damage dealt on allies will be reduced gradually if the ally gets attacked with multiple hits when you are turned into a statue. This does not accumulate with other damage reduction effects."

IIRC it doesn't work on himself

Unless I'm losing my mind

oh you were vs trumped

we matched them the other week actually

[meager mauve]

I was mostly meaning for Hraes since he's taking increased damage via his S3, plus Suiki will be building up ATK power. Reducing the damage dealt with the other hit on his S2 prevented Hraes from dying.

[vale jay]

But there's no multihits on allies

Because the only def break is suiki

And it's on the unit he hits

[finite terrace]

I might be wrong but wouldn't it say (excluding yourself) or something like that if it didnt work on kunite himself?

[vale jay]

com2us wording is funky

I'll test it

[sleek wigeon]

Manon (Water Macaron Guard)

Wikia

1. Macaron Boomerang

Attacks the enemy to decrease Defense for 2 turns with a 40% chance. This attack will deal more damage according to your Defense.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

1.8*{ATK} + 2.7*{DEF}

2. Justice of Dessert

Increases your Defense for 3 turns and becomes immune to harmful effects for 3 turns. Instantly recovers a turn afterwards. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

3. Fat Macaron (Passive)

If an ally excluding yourself takes damage from an enemy during the enemy's turn, you have a 15% chance to offset that damage, attack the enemy instantly to deal damage proportionate to your Defense and stun the enemy for 1 turn. [Automatic Effect]

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%

provided by SWARFARM

[vale jay]

I honestly can't tell from testing it

But it seems like it does work

It seems like generally the S2 does less damage with each hit

I'm pretty sure I am wrong here

@meager mauve

You can try it yourself, it seems like it does work on himself

[vale jay]

Ty, that's a good catch actually, I must be misremembering because I remembered when I tested with kunite before it (didn't seem) to be working on himself

Back when it was mihyang cichlid everywhere

[finite terrace]

good to make sure

[vale jay]

ty

[meager mauve]

I'm pretty upset about my WGB results this time around. I thought I had built great teams and yet I look at them now and they're bad. I feel like I do when I play chess and I make a bad move but only see that it's a terrible move after I play the move.

1.) Seemed like a simple enough team. Just have Rina tank everything, kill Smicer first, oblivion Chow with Delphoi. Since all 3 monsters have healing, Rina would be able to tank all 3 enemy monsters.

2.) I've used Copper/Dozer into this many times. Pretty easy. Boost copper, kill Mo Long, then Dozer kills Ophilia and Perna cannot 1v3.

3.) I liked this comp because Tesa beats all 3 of these mons with oblivion. Racuni heals Malite a lot and cleanses def break, and only Cami hits Racuni/Tesa. Unless Cami vio procs a TON, she isn't going to kill them before Tesa takes out Laika and Feng Yan.

4.) Woosa was really really tanky. He lived. I lost because Theomars S2'd Mihyang, which killed her, and then Woosa S3'd, making it impossible to kill Theomars afterwards.

5.) If I'm being honest, I also don't really know how to deal with multi-revive comps with Savannah. I can't cleave her because she just revives. I can't dot because I don't have a fast enough DoT team (yet). So I just picked this team because I know Tetra is good into Nora, and I figured no def breaks on Tractor/Windy would make it harder for Savannah to kill either one.

6.) Standard hit against a standard comp. They were very tanky and slow, so this was pretty easy.

7.) I should not have cleaved here. But I falsely equivalated Copper with Lushen here and thought "Lushen can kill Mo Long and Icares, and then I 3v1 Khmun". That did not work. Mo Long survived. It came down to Mihyang vs Khmun and his Khmun was on vamp, so Mihyang couldn't ever finish him off.

8.) I saw this as a good Julie candidate because they're pretty squishy, and Bernard has a higher base speed than Orion. However, Seara and Fran were both on Will, and then both Seara and Fran procced on almost every turn. Came down to Bernard vs Fran and Fran vio procced enough to never be low on health. :/

9.) Khmun/Malite/Racuni seems like a good pick here. Malite can tank everything, and as long as I boost Racuni, he's always cleansing + healing Malite to avoid oblivion for too long. I think this comp can lose if Tesarion is built on Destroy though. May have been better to run Tesarion to oblivion the enemy Tesarion so that Malite doesn't get oblivioned.

10.) Fire tank + 2 water seemed pretty obvious, but looking at it now, I should have just used Praline to snipe Carc + Woosa and then 3v1 Abellio. I will admit my previous experience with Woosa surviving a Lushen made me hesitant to cleave him this time.

[vale jay]

The first 3 are all very reasonable here, good job

How fast was mihyang in the Lushen comp?

Was it nem on woosa or?

Theomars is always a bit tricky without premiums to be honest

[meager mauve]

283 combat speed. Short by 3 to reach next tick. Theomars I believe was on 286 speed. I will get 3 more speed added to this Mihyang.

[meager mauve]

I didn't check, but Woosa took a turn right after Theomars killed Mihyang.

[meager mauve]

I kind of get this sense. jx9 mentioned some monsters like Karl, but I don't have one built, and that would be a completely different cleave anyway.

[vale jay]

Can we go a good amount more

Your damage cales

Scales with speed anywho

Like 10 speed over tick is good if we can manage

Even more is better but just start there

[meager mauve]

I'm not sure I can. I think the runes are pretty close to maxed out on rolls. I'll need to double check that here in a second....

[finite terrace]

oh did he just outspd ur mihyang? kinda assumed it was after the 30% atk bar he gains from proccing passive

[meager mauve]

This is one of the confusing parts of Mihyang for me. I need to get as much of 3 stats as possible, ATK, CD, and SPD. However, I don't understand how to know which one I should prioritize over the others. For example, I can get around 20-30 more speed by changing 2 runes, but I lose an enormous amount of attack and about 20% CD. I could also get around 10-12 more speed and keep some attack and only lose about 10% CD. Which of those options will provide the best results with Mihyang?

Also from what I understand trading purely ATK for SPD is fine, but with my current runes I can only really trade ATK + CD for SPD or a little SPD for ATK + CD.

[vale jay]

actually i want to know too

i doubt he did

[vale jay]

I just use swop to be honest

[meager mauve]

Looks like it was the ATB boost from proccing passive. Mihyang was a full tick ahead.

[meager mauve]

Siege this week was rough. Real life stuff made it so that I couldn't sit down and properly think about each attack. Made some silly mistakes and ran into some defenses that I could have easily defeated if I had been able to think about them longer.

1.) Seemed like an easy 3v1 after I snipe Molly/Dominic. Unfortunately Theomars procced three times in a row and managed to wipe my team. He even procced out of a stun from Taru, which if he hadn't, he would have died.

2.) Re-hit this defense after knowing how strong they were. Focused Molly and then Theomars and it was a pretty simple cleanup.

3.) Seemed like a good team. Perna never kills Malite, Tetra heals him constantly, and Theomars can't die from Cichlid def break + Chandra hits. Focused Cichlid first, then Chandra, then Perna.

4.) I honestly thought I had come up with a great idea here. Songseol stops Riley and Ophilia from buffing Odin, she has -Wind damage artis, and Racuni was on Swift, so he could speed her up to go first so that Carc can snipe Odin. Carc is on destroy so Riley can't infinitely heal either. I forgot that I would need Songseol to be incredibly slow for this to work. She's also not fully skilled up. So it worked to kill Odin at first, but then after he revived, Songseol moved again and I couldn't prevent him from getting buffs and wiping the team. I do think this works if Songseol is slower and has S2 fully skilled.

5.) I thought this would be a decently safe comp. Khmun + Racuni heal and cleanse, and the shield from Khmun would prevent someone from taking a lot of damage from Trasar/Skogul. Roid also taunted Skogul endlessly so that he could never S2. Seemed to be safe enough.

6.) Seemed like a fairly lushenable comp. Mihyang can kill Perna after the revive, Liu Mei should die, and Chandra would be the only one left to attempt a 3v1, which should be pretty simple. Worked out almost exactly as planned, though MY did not immediately kill Perna with one S2. Did kill on the second one though, as I had Teon resurge.

7.) Kind of saw this as a raw gamble. Either Zen moves first and I lose, or I move first and I win. Unfortunately, Zen moved first.

8.) Like I said, real life stuff happening. Didn't really think about this too much and hit send. Lionel obviously moved first and Liu Mei stunned Kahli before she could move.

9.) I am around 90% certain I've made this exact mistake before. I didn't have my resources that I typically go over in front of me, so I ran this without much thought. Very poor decision.

10.) Seemed like a pretty safe Dozer/Copper/Imesety candidate. No strip, Woosa could move first, but Dozer/Copper should be able to kill through shield (which they did). I do think I made a mistake in the order though. I probably should have used Copper to kill FY and then used Dozer to kill Moogwang. I left Moogwang for last instead, which I think could have turned out poorly given the worst possible circumstances.

I am actively building a Shren to replace Taru. I'm also working on getting a PvP ready Yeonhwa and Songseol. I also recently upgraded my Lushen to give him around 300 extra AD and about 25 more CD, and dropped his speed to 0.

For the defenses I just threw offenses at without thinking, specifically 7, 8 and 9, I think I'd probably run the following comps instead:

7 -> MY/Shamann/Vigor -> Seems like there's enough healing, and the anti-crit from Vigor would help lower chances of Zeratu passive from activating. Also has cleansing and I can win if I just kill MY first.

8 -> I actually don't think I can hit this defense at all. I don't know if I have the monsters for it. Perhaps I could run something like Kunite/Dias/Skogul? But I don't like that comp much because no sustain and Skogul might not get hit during S2.

9 -> I could probably Julie this.

[fiery geode]

1. this is fine you just got unlucky. although the way to deal with this better is to use more premium snipe units instead of super squishy stuff like cov and taru

for example fire kass and odin

but of course if you don't have them not much you can do

3. wind + 2 water is good although against perna i would have preferred windy. possible for cichlid to reset malite and then you can't go into stone form

4. ... #1232589438211850330 message

[lapis pecan]

jx9

[Message Link](#1232589438211850330 message) to #1232589438211850330
she was popularized against odin comps, but they were bad because you could just end up not able to kill anything and then the song is over and then you die

Req. by jx9. Quote from · Sep 9, 2024, 2:36 AM

[fiery geode]

5. id be scared of just dying to double rock, i dont think this is great. you can cleave this or use garo which is a bit safer

6. mostly ok but be aware you're at a speed disadvantage

7. this was a good gamble, you just got outruned

8. this was not a good gamble, you were at a big speed disadvantage

9. i wouldn't try to twl this, this is an old def and back then my favorite turn 2 comp was a turn 2 cleave of triana fran bomber (like malaka)

or just cleave

10. uhh read moogwang's skills again. he is a stripper

copper dozer is fine but you have to dozer the moogwang first

and then copper woosa

you cannot safely copper feng, he potentially has too much def

unless you are doing some crazy triple def copper build

[meager mauve]

Ooooffff.... Thank you.

I will admit that I let my guildmates hype for Songseol get to me. They all said "oh yeah songseol into Odin would be awesome". Duly noted for next time.

[meager mauve]

So, how would I cleave in this instance? I felt like both Trasar and Skogul are going to be built on insanely high health so I didn't think ignore defense sniping would work.

[meager mauve]

Yes, unfortunately I don't have a high speed Lushen booster, so I have to just put my fastest set on Teon and hope for the best.

[meager mauve]

I am not sure if I have the monsters to hit this defense properly. What are typically the recommendations into Lionel?

[haughty siren]

I really recommend garo draco khali against that specific odin def, just kill odin twice with khali then garo, simplest way

[meager mauve]

Ah, this is a good idea actually. I don't have bombers built, but I'll look into building one specifically for this. I see this defense constantly.

[meager mauve]

How is Garo typically built for that? SPD/CD/ATK with Vio?

[haughty siren]

I have no clue tbh, mine sits on vamp tho it's probably not necessary

[meager mauve]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've not built a Garo. From the Beginner PvP guide, it mentions a Garo build and says that you need Vamp specifically so that he can beat Rileys and such.

I don't have pretty much ANY vamp runes currently, so I haven't even attempted a build for him.

[haughty siren]

I mean you can use others like mihyang too

I would need to try if it works for killing odin second time tho

Never personally tried

[meager mauve]

That's something I'd need to test as well. I'd be too scared of MY element disadvantage to kill an Odin that was built tankier than a YOLO build.

But I will note your comp in my list so that I have something to work for. Thank you very much for your suggestion.

[haughty siren]

That's only for this specific odin comp since they have no second threat

[meager mauve]

WGB this time around was pretty nice, though I'm fairly certain I just outruned most of them.

1.) Easy Lushen. Higher speed lead + fastest set on Teon means this is just Lushen food.

2.) I figured this comp would work nicely, but I did not play it correctly. I used S2 from Nora while FY had counterattack up, and he def broke Nora, which got her insta-killed by Laika. If I had just S1'ed Laika instead, I would have won this one easily.

3.) I think this comp is very dangerous. Byungchul got to about 1/4 health, but Perna couldn't kill him after Seara's bomb. I'm certain this is not a comp I can run if they are runed properly. The bomber comp mentioned earlier is what I want to build next, but first I need to actually level and build a bomber. :/

4.) Seemed like a really easy Julie target. Bastet moved before Bernard, but that just increased Julie's damage.

5.) I thought this comp was ultra safe. Carc can never be defense broken, which means Masha never targets him. Moore won't do enough damage to kill him. Malite can tank Masha pretty well, and Lulu will never die to Eladriel, meaning she can heal infinitely.

6.) I thought I was clever, but looking back at this defense, there's no defense break, so honestly this isn't that good of a defense in the first place. I did like that Elsha could strip and give defense buffs to my team, as well as strip Chandra defend. Also liked Riley buffing Elsha to increase passive power.

7.) Only real damage threat is Jade, but she will never hit Carc. Nora + Jeanne have lots of provokes and dots, but Vero + Tetra cleanses that no problem. Super crappy defense.

8.) Thought through this one for a bit. Figured that boosting Copper and killing Jeongnam means that Ashour can move, but if he strips Copper it doesn't matter since he's already done his job. Have Bulldozer kill Ashour and I can then just hit Auto.

9.) Figured this one was pretty safe as long as I boosted Racuni constantly. Only way I really lose it is if Tesa lands Def break and vio procs 5-6 times, and then Dom vio procs 4-5 times. Seemed nearly impossible.

10.) In hindsight, I should have just Lushened instead. I got my WGB rounds mixed up and thought I was already using Lushen on 1R, as I did in the first one. Lushen eats this alive easily.

[vale jay]

fuck i forget what ent told me to use here but there's an easy coco angle if you have her

it's coco triana something

for #2

anyways

copper bulldozer imesety is pretty ~90%ish

it helps if bulldozer is 179

or 205

you can lose

i've lost before

had guild lose before

but i would just copper imesety dozer send it

and if you lose

its cool go next boys

im confused though

why are we sending these memes into seara orion perna

i guess

khmun racuni byungchul probably isn't that bad

but like jx said fran malaka triana, tried and true

if you don't want to do that, malite lulu vigor is fine, probably 92-93ish

[meager mauve]

Yeah, need to build a bomber. I'm attempting to finish off building my Shren at the moment, and then I'm going to have to re-read the bomber section of the beginner PvP thread to build one.

[vale jay]

this is very simple

don't over complicate it

you're on new account right

we're building for depth?

205 tick 35 acc ~100k ehp (too much is bad. too low is also bad. too much = you live seara bomb and seara s1 kills you through triana passive) too little = you end up dying to seara s1) as much atk as humanly possible

go fatal will

[meager mauve]

I'll see if I've got the Will runes. Might have to go Fatal/broken for now.

[vale jay]

nah

you gotta do will

listen it can be white runes lol

the requirements are so low

use intangible

you need one will rune

just one

if you don't have

go hit the skeleton until he drops a blue atk% will rune

ignore subs

+15 it equip it and send it my brother

or if you have an intangible atk% rune

+15 it, equip it, ignore subs, send it

find a will rune that is not complete garbage (maybe max green eff) and fill the rest in with violent

if you want i'll make you a build, gimmie that json

we are not griefing into seara orion perna

this is a solved defense

[meager mauve]

Okay these descriptions are hilarious. hahahahaha

[vale jay]

i'm serious

i did this in critical value

back when i had people tell me this

i did this exact same thing

we managed to get g2 finish with a collective swift topset averaging like +180 and people being unable to build shit on 239

[meager mauve]

No, I just started re-reading the bomber section of the PvP guide. You're exactly right. It even mentions that it's a T2 team, which generally means you're required to run Will.

I just like the idea of "+15 it and send it brother". Sounds funny to me. XD

[meager mauve]

205 I think is low. I can probably hit 239. Ideal tick I imagine is 286 right?

[vale jay]

no fuck 286 me and my homies do not do 286

you have no speed lead and the most important thing is to have these stat reqs

you want your bomb to send them to the nether realm

and its possible for your bomb to not kill

239 is great, but don't sweat it, seriously, it works fine without crazy runes on malaka. the quality is required on fran/triana

[meager mauve]

Oh gotcha. They're kind of like fat DD's.

[vale jay]

THOSE are the monsters benefiting from 286, but it's too hard so fuck that just do 239 with your best builds

[meager mauve]

Only 35% accuracy? Why so low? Wouldn't I want it higher so that I could have higher chances of hitting the bomb?

[sleek wigeon]

Malaka (Water Kobold Bomber)

Wikia

1. Firecracker

Attacks the enemy with a bomb. The damage increases by 15% for each harmful effect on the enemy.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +15%

Multiplier

1.3*{ATK} x3

2. Time Bomb

Installs a bomb that detonates after 2 turns on all enemies and increases your Attack Bar by 50%. In addition, increases your Attack Bar by 10% per bomb you installed on the enemies. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

4.2*{ATK}

3. Ice Bomb

Detonates a frost compressed bomb, dealing damage to all enemies and decreasing their Attack Power and Defense for 2 turns with an 80% chance on each target. This attack won't land as a Glancing Hit. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

4.6*{ATK}

provided by SWARFARM

[fiery geode]

ok so this team is so old, i first made it before triana got guild def lead

so now if you want to build it, alternatively you can run 85 acc malaka and use triana lead

and since def benefits all 3 monsters instead of just 1, that does make sense

alternatively you can just say that malaka is the most important monster so its ok to just use his lead to lower only his requirements

[meager mauve]

Ah, I see. Running Malaka lead. I was just immediately assuming it was Triana lead.

[vale jay]

Is it really that beneficial though

I guess the acc only helps malaka but I'm more worried about dying to bombs