yeah
#beta-ptr-spoilers
dense plover
tropic trail
so I think we'll see the first week of pre patch next week
storm marsh
tropic trail
hopefully the new shadow priest talent came with the new PTR update
the PTR is back to release
mossy perch
😮
tropic trail
mossy perch
they must have bumped into something pretty bad previously then
tiny stream
I feel like Blizzard needs to relook at leveling. I've always been under the opinion that getting the loremaster of a continent would be the ideal road to level 50, but I get that some people don't want to do that. I hope Blizzard tries to aim you to need to finish the story of at least 4 zones/ Major storylines. For BFA, you would have to do Kul Tiras or Zandalar, and then the entire war campaign, at least on your first time playing through a BFA continent.
For something like Outlands, I get that loremaster is kinda unfeasible until you out level all the enemies, so you can do the dungeons, but I hope Blizzard does something like requiring you to finish Hellfire Pennisula, Zangarmarsh, Bladefist Mountain, and then either Nagrand or Terrokar Forrest. Or do a "highlights of Outland system" where you play through the 2 best quests/storylines in each zone with the new ! symbol to guide you through and then it ends with you taking down Lady Vash, Quel'thalas, and Illidan with bot allies, and ending with the reclamation of the Sunwell.
For example:
Hellfire Pennisula: The introduction to Rexxar and learning about the Hellfire Citadel (Maybe even ending the section with the Magtheridon raid with bot opponents
Zangarmarsh: The Sporegarr story (Hands down the most memorable story) and the quest to learn about the water pumps before taking down Lady Vash
Nagrand: The Storyline with Garrosh ending with Thrall meeting Garrosh. (It's a VERY long questline so just the one) You could throw in the circle of blood with bot opponents though.
Thousand Blades (Whatever it's called) The Rexxar quest and the becoming the Ogre leader quest (still a favorite of mine)
Terrokar: The investigation into the Blood Elf presence there, and something with the arrokoa.
Netherstorm: The Investigation with the blood elves, a modified take on the Consortium, and then taking down Quel'thalas with Bot allies
Shadowmoon: The story with the Netherwing Drakes, and the enslaved Dranei before taking down Illidan with bot opponents
Ilse of the sunwell (or whatever it's called): Straight into the big raid with bot opponents.
At this point, you will have played through the most memorable story moments and visited all the zones in some capacity.
I could give other suggestions for the other continents, but I think the point gets across. Blizzard should chose the most important/influential storylines to the future of Wow as the guided questing with the rest being optional, but offering minimal experience. It should feel like a complete story that shows off the continents and story of that continent from beginning to end while cutting out some of the less important middle stuff.
This feels closer to what Blizzard wanted leveling to feel like, and I hope they fix it to make it that way.
frozen stratus
Yeah no one is going to read that
frozen stratus
Im not reading it
So blizzard has made it clear rhey want leveling to be a short process
tiny stream
TL; DR: Blizzard should redo their leveling structure to slow down leveling so that you go through the best questlines of each zone in a continent before working with overpowered bot characters to take on the major raids..
placid granite
The game's too big for that
frozen stratus
The one idea some youtuber proposed was a good one
It basically told the story of an expac in a shortened version
tropic trail
I don't think there is a way Blizzard can make leveling meaningful anymore, even with what you said. No matter what Blizzard does, content will be missed.
tiny stream
It would still be WAY faster than BfA leveling, but Chromie time right now doesn't solve the issue that they made chromie time for
frozen stratus
It makes it so every zone is the same level
But now people will just do only wod
Cause wod is just so fast
tiny stream
They said that they want you to experience the whole story of an expansion and end at level 50 ready for shadowlands, but right now no one has to even finish a continents main stories because they finish too fast.
halcyon crypt
Storm I'm sorry to say that but 80% of players don't give a damn about the quests and stories... it saddens me. They just want quick max lvl and mythic boost.
frozen stratus
I want quick max level but not mythic boost wtf
young latch
ohhhhh this looks so good...
frozen stratus
Why do those two need to be together?
halcyon crypt
*or just quick max level OKAY?
tiny stream
Right now you finish BFA right around Level 50 without doing the whole war campaign. Right now you get halfway through wod at max because its too fast
halcyon crypt
🙂
frozen stratus
No one wants to do all the shit side quests
halcyon crypt
I want
frozen stratus
Leveling is just a chore to a good few people
halcyon crypt
over and over again
tropic trail
I think Chromie Time is the best thing they can do. Taliesin's idea about scenarios to explain the rest of the expansion story is neat but for the majority of players that's just a hurdle to getting to max and endgame.
frozen stratus
Have both
tropic trail
The game is far too big for any kind of long-term cohesive story.
tiny stream
@tropic trail But you can make each continent work as a cohesive story
Most of the text in just walking through an example with the burning crusade which has some great story moments hidden by tons of boring quests
tropic trail
Sure, but it just takes too long is the problem. People don't accept long leveling experiences anymore. For both ESO and FFXIV, one of their main complaints is that leveling takes far too long and isn't interesting enough.
tiny stream
I want them to highlight the best 2 storylines of each zones for older content so you can come out of it with a reminder of what BC story was instead of the current leveling experience which is crying in Hellfire Pennisula for 50 hours..... killing the same 5 boars hundreds of time
tropic trail
MMOs as a whole have moved towards shunting you into endgame as fast as possible. The destination is indeed the most important part.
tiny stream
Last I recall, most people spent a long time leveling in classic though
tropic trail
Classic was 16 years ago. The current iteration is for people who like that experience.
tiny stream
What's the point of redoing the leveling experience then if you just make it play through 3 zones
tropic trail
It's a different game entirely.
tiny stream
No absolutely, but I don't see why a 10 hour story is problematic especially when Shadowlands leveling will be probably 10 hours on your first time
tropic trail
Because it isn't for us veterans. It's for completely new players to get a gist of the current story so they can go into the new expansion with some idea of what's going on. That's why players who level their first character in Shadowlands are forced to start with BfA.
tiny stream
If you can shorten each expansion to roughly 10 hours of leveling minus side content then I feel like that would be preferred from a story perspective
tranquil steeple
the majority of the time spent leveling (and clearing max level content) in classic was lack of knowledge about the game and less than ideal tech
frozen stratus
mhm
also just the way they designed classic
it is definitely a grindier leveling experience
tranquil steeple
like, you saw/heard how fast people hit levelcap, and how fast people clear the raids in classic
frozen stratus
mhm
and we can even look at other games too people find ways to make leveling really fast
in any game
tranquil steeple
23m to clear blackwing lair... equal to M+15. y'know, dungeons on live
tiny stream
For example, imagine you are a new fan who wants to try wow. They get a great leveling experience from 1-10 and 11-50. Then they through 50-60 and say That was fun. I want to try the other expansions now from the beginning. They try out Burning Crusade and find the story too slow, the gameplay boring, leveling has too many 5 person quests to do until level 60 or out of chromie time, and you give up on the alt.
Is that the experience you want new players to have?
tranquil steeple
if it's all based on the leveling experience, then yes it's going to be pretty shitty
frozen stratus
thats why I think taleisans proposal is best
tranquil steeple
but leveling isn't the entire game
tiny stream
Leveling may not be the entire game, but its where 80% of the content that makes wow such a vast game lives
frozen stratus
what
tiny stream
The new expansion may be what everybody plays, but remember there is countless hours of content in the older expansions which are designed in a way that bores new players
frozen stratus
no
tiny stream
I mean 10+ years of work have gone into content that people don't consider very important anymore. If you are blizzard, why wouldn't you try to give all that work of yours some extra life.
frozen stratus
thats why I think taleisans proposal is best
tranquil steeple
that 80% of the game's content is irrelevant outside of leveling because the game has moved forwards
tiny stream
There are 6 expansions worth of content and story that no one will really touch now. Why shouldn't Blizzard put a little work in to make all that hard work accessible.
I agree that Taleisans proposal is pretty good.
tranquil steeple
and it's entirely accessible by anyone at any point (once reached), it's a matter of whether they want to put in the effort to do it
tiny stream
Sure, but things like Outland aren't very fun because there is so much boring content to get through just to check out the cool stuff.
I can put in the effort to do it, but if it isn't fun and I'm shear grinding and doing busywork for it, then whats the point of having the content available
uncut vault
I mean honestly, if they wanted to actually prepare new players for shadowlands, theyd just skip a lot of zuldazar/kul tiras, and have the war campaign be mandatory leveling
cause atm, a new player wont know why theyre suddenly fighting their warchief in a new outfit in the maw
tranquil steeple
then that's more the way the game's looked at/played being at fault, honestly. also, surely you can make your own fun or put some music, stream vod, podcast, etc, on just as background noise
because frankly, grinding is part of the game to a large degree, especially was in bfa where top people had to farm island expeditions for hours just to stay on top/be prepared for the next set of content
frozen stratus
not even to be prepared for new content
no no no
literally just to wear their raid gear
placid granite
Even veteran players wouldn't wanna play through it like that. It's just too long, the game has become too gigantic for something like that.
They solved the problem you're talking about by being able to select a specific expansion to level through
tiny stream
@placid granite That was their goal, but the current system didn't solve that. By the time you get halfway through Wod or even faster, you are done. You don't actually get through the story in any capacity right now before you hit 50
young latch
I think what's weird for new players is that a lot of story is told in the raids. But you skip raids when you level. So they miss the story.
tranquil steeple
if anyone's dedicated to the story they'll finish it regardless of their level
so, honestly, fuck it.
young latch
They'll see the story out of order is what happens, which messes with pacing.
tiny stream
Exactly, that's why Blizzard should have a bot option for non-current expansion raiding.
young latch
final fantasy players are used to seeing all of the story even after they level past content, so they complained loudest when I tried to get them into wow, and tbh I understand their issues with the story pacing
tiny stream
You should be allowed to have either bosses changed so you can fight them in a difficult one on one encounter or have bot teamates. But it needs to be doable once you know the mechanics and how to avoid them.
The most fun moments I have with Wow by myself are playing things like Normal BfA dungeons with nyolotha gear, or soloing legion raids.
Now, every player is different, but I don't see why they can't try to alter the leveling to make it more enjoyable and let you do the whole story.
opaque pewter
Resource management basically
placid granite
WoW is more endgame than enjoying the journey. Also nobody who does that once or twice will want to do it more than that many times.
opaque pewter
But yes it would be nice to have them experience that
tiny stream
@tranquil steeple But the are serious difficulties. Playing through old expansions at max level (excluding Legion) is boring because there is no challenge attached to it. You make completing an old dungeon about pressing one button and getting to the end.
@placid granite Sure, but wouldn't giving players the option to relive old stories in an accessible and fun fashion be better than right now
Legion at max level is fun because some of the endgame content requires some skill. (Not a lot), but it does have some challenges and mechanics that can kill you at certain difficulties
tranquil steeple
in that case look at Classic POTENTIALLY (NOT CONFIRMED THO) branching onwards to TBC... there you can relive the stories as current
otherwise if you're only there for the story itself you CAN do it at any level once you've reached it
tiny stream
Sure, but what if I want to redo Pandaria? Do I have to wait 6 years
tranquil steeple
it doesn't need to be on equal level
tiny stream
No, I know, but at the same time, it would be nice to have some challenge in the bigger moments.
It would be nice to have the option to play through a raid that scales to your level, but scales in a way that makes it soloable
tranquil steeple
leveling stopped being a challenge and became a chore because of how long it is.
I doubt people are going to jump in the air and scream "yes! leveling content is challenging again!"
tiny stream
So why don't we make it shorter and have some challenging moments.
tranquil steeple
people will more often than not want to get to max level to experience relevant content that actually matters
tiny stream
We got the shorter part but not the story and challenge part right now
placid granite
You also have to think about how that splits community
tranquil steeple
though I'm not explicitly saying "do the story once you're levelcap"
placid granite
While people boost to 60 some people are behind in fuckin' MoP
While other people are still in TBC
tranquil steeple
just do it at a point where you can comfortably complete the story
tiny stream
That's why I'm proposing we trim the content down to 10 hours per expansion where 1 expansion takes you from 10-50.
placid granite
I'm sorry to say but your idea and opinion are in the very very small minority
tranquil steeple
without adding unecessary bloat to the game for the sake of "challenge outside of relevant content"
tiny stream
But you make the 10 hours the highlights of the expansion with having a major raid that should take 30ish minutes every 2.5 hours.
One of the cool parts about hearthstone now is that there is a TON of singleplayer content that you can check out for fun.
tranquil steeple
.... and it being a vastly different game
tiny stream
The content may not give you cards that matter for the current expansion of hearthstone, but the expansion stories are fun and hard but side content
Why can't replaying BC be turned into a fun 10 hour story (maybe 15)?
Make some of the moments a little difficult (not too difficult) but difficult enough to be satisfying
tranquil steeple
bc/outland as a whole is an absolute chore to level through, that many players have expressed their opinions about
and would rather avoid entirely
tiny stream
It is a f***ing chore right now, that's why I'm proposing changes to it.
There is a fun 10 hours of story in there. It wouldn't be as polished as say BfA leveling or high quality, but there are some quest and moments worth doing.
tranquil steeple
it's going to be a chore regardless. to make some enemies/moments challenging would require most other mobs/moments to be easier to compensate
tiny stream
There are some raids that could be scaled to be fun to play solo.
tranquil steeple
otherwise, surprise surprise, people are STILL going to avoid it like the plague
tiny stream
@tranquil steeple I'm not saying everyone has to do it, but if you reworked it a little then people who want to relive it but don't want too much grinding, or people who've never checked out the continent before might enjoy it.
Then if Wow does this for every expansion, then Wow could have a 60-80 hours of story that once you play, you will know all the major beats
And plenty of moments along the way would be really fun.
And While doing the 60 hours, you would play through it with 6-7 different characters giving you 7 different alts for shadowlands
and if you realy want to replay a story or see the other factions story then you would have another 60 hours to play albeit with a decent amount of repeat content.
Given that people haven hundreds if not thousands of hours of Wow, why would having 60 hours of optional story be a problem?
dense plover
because no one would do it
opaque pewter
I'm sure this was one of the ideal way they've discussed it. But it's a lot of resource that would take away from other stuff
dense plover
theyre not going to put work into something no one will do
resources go where the majority of players go
tiny stream
I disagree. I think some people would and most of the content is already there.
tranquil steeple
or, again, if you're only there for the story... don't care about the level you are when doing it. because you'll still get the story, you'll still get to levelcap... where content actually matters, and where you'll spend 99% of your time
dense plover
some isnt most
tiny stream
I have a feeling 10 programers could probably get it done at a rate of about 1 expansion a month if that.
opaque pewter
lol
dense plover
you know each expac has thousands if not 10s of thousands of quests right?
tranquil steeple
dense plover
let alone all the other content and systems
dense plover
really?
frozen stratus
yes
dense plover
feels like more
tiny stream
@dense plover Yes, but no one wants to do that content because it takes too long to do, so why not simplify it
dense plover
because theres no reason to do that?
tranquil steeple
that still leaves 1200-1300 or something quests per expansion on average
dense plover
a small minority would do that, which is a waste of resources
opaque pewter
10 "programmers" would step on toes a lot. There is a saying that you can't make things faster in non-labour job by putting in more people
dense plover
you have to manage your resources or you end up screwing up stuff
frozen stratus
it would take more than just 10 programmers
tiny stream
I mean how much new stuff actually needs to be added
frozen stratus
it would take programmers, writters, ui designers, quality assurance testers, systems designers, etc.
its actually technically less peach
cause duplicates are definitely in that list
tranquil steeple
player testing.. as in, testing the new system as a player that it actually works
and providing feedback where it doesn't work
which means more changes need to be made
frozen stratus
you need to make ui for it
tranquil steeple
it's not something you just throw people at and say "make this"
tiny stream
I mean, the chromie time UI already exists.
frozen stratus
you need to design the experience gains and changes to stuff
you need writers to figure out what works
you would need more than just that UI
you would need programmers to program certain aspects that'd need to be adjusted
and program the entire system
opaque pewter
Yeah QA resource surely. It's also going to be iterative
frozen stratus
its not a simple easy task
tranquil steeple
it would take time and resources that could be spent making sure meaningful content is actually properly made
opaque pewter
Depending on the wanted quality
tranquil steeple
instead of something you go by once or twice
tiny stream
But at the same time, you would create a system you can just reuse for each expansion
frozen stratus
true
however it is not a simple easy thing
there is definitely a substantial investment to do that
opaque pewter
I think they have a good starting point
tranquil steeple
kinda like Chromie Time, which... gasp... EXISTS?
tiny stream
I mean I'm proposing a ChromieTime +
dense plover
we dont need it tho
frozen stratus
is it a worthwhile investment? I would say yes. However, will they ever make this investment for a minority of players benefit? No.
opaque pewter
It can be expanded later if needed, and maybe we'll get down to 50 every expac and get that train rolling
tiny stream
Chromie Time is a great start, but they can make it better
dense plover
spending resources on a system that can be expanded for only a few users isnt neccesary
tranquil steeple
I'mma say it like this
tiny stream
I think 1% of users would do it
Most of them being new, or people wanting some nostalgia
tranquil steeple
I'd rather not risk (regardless of how small chance) Shadowlands being downgraded to BfA 2.0
tiny stream
But only like 1% complete mythic raids, but we include those
tranquil steeple
because of a system a very small minority will use once or twice... up to 4 times, maybe.
tiny stream
What makes this different from the 1% that play Mythic Raids or try to get all the transmogs?
tranquil steeple
RELEVANT CONTENT
opaque pewter
Hmm Sela's not explaining it well admitetdly
tranquil steeple
current expansion content outweighs old expansion content
especially when it's just the leveling in said old expansion
tiny stream
I think you are underselling the value of those 10 years of content
opaque pewter
It's has a lot to do with limited resource vs. delivered value
tiny stream
Shouldn't the developers be able to let their hard work shine and be fun 4 years down the road
opaque pewter
The value which is higher for end-game content. I don't think people really condone any work for new players
As a side note, if we take that 1% experience at face value, the 1% people that complete it, is experienced by more people that play it but don't manage to complete it. The percentage rises a lot more since now it's reused to be playable in lower difficulty, down to a mode called "raid finder". So it's a little different from work put in questing.
As a person that wants people that missed out to experience the same thing as us while it was being delivered while it was "current", I understand where you want to get at
Some resource have been put aside for new players this expac, which is good for that aspect. If they can and want, the same amount can be allocated to bring it closer to that vision next time
signal bone
well, pre-patch all but confirmed for the 13th I guess
cunning fossil
I mean IDK about that but at ellast we know it's coming
signal bone
was there ever a doubt?
upper lantern
Why is it all but confirmed for 13th?
upper lantern
I still see it going out on the 6th but it's an asspull too lol
mossy perch
yeah it's just.. here when it's here at this point
upper lantern
yeah
mossy perch
😠
frozen stratus
what
you know its usually a tuesday or a thursday
usually tuesday
so 6th or 13th
terse anvil
Yep
mossy perch
if all goes well, sure
signal bone
I mean, a stress test less than a week before launch seems unlikely.
frozen stratus
that is true
signal bone
They need to gather analytics and possibly make changes
frozen stratus
which means the 13th is definitely more likely
granite lion
Also, the 13th is 2 weeks before launch. Wouldn't that be the shortest prepatch to date?
errant hinge
I agree pretty sure it all comes down to how the stress test goes tomorrow what the date ends up being
Will see though
upper lantern
Yeah, I think the result of the stress test will impact on launch date
granite lion
I can see the 13th as a fallback. Personally, I see the 6th. People are going to want to level new characters and play out new classes. I would like to have a week to decide if I want to change my main fountain expansion or stay with my current main.
Oh android typos are so fun.
errant hinge
I’m hoping it’s the 6th also, but I think the people saying the 13th do have some good points. We really just don’t know until Blizzard gives us a date.
granite lion
Yeah. Even if I prefer the 6th, at this point I just want a date to look forward to.
severe gull
be good they just annouce the pre patch and put all speculation to an end
thick saddle
Or just... stop speculating, and assume it will be released when it's released. Which will definitely be before Shadowlands launches at the end of October.
Done.
tropic trail
id rather just do that^
speculate all you want Mark, what ever makes you happy friend
severe gull
speculate all you want Mark, what ever makes you happy friend
@tropic trail na thats what i mean just announce it so everyone isnt speculating at all lol im not i think it will be the 6th but hey i have no idea just best guess really
tropic trail
What's with some of the racist people in PTR?
I'm guessing it's because there aren't as many rules...?
wary salmon
Idk but I've seen it quite a lot too
frozen stratus
Less gm
tropic trail
Yeah
frozen stratus
tropic trail
"Too many people of color in the game now."
frozen stratus
They arent going to change just best to give them no thought or time
tropic trail
"I'm not inviting black humans to my raid group."
It's super low quality
Yeah I just give them no thought
placid granite
The only black character you could have ever made looked like if you dipped the whitest man alive into a can of brown paint
tropic trail
Baha
placid granite
Now they actually look diverse
tropic trail
Now I can actually have my afro
I'm going to be making a Human Blood Death Knight so guessing they'll be waiting another hour for a tank
Sucks to be them lmao
limpid spade
The only black character you could have ever made looked like if you dipped the whitest man alive into a can of brown paint
@placid granite that made me lol hard xD
placid granite
I'd rather they turn 90% of Stormwind into a PoC than them look like a white black man
frozen stratus
PoC?
placid granite
People of color
tropic trail
we dont know when prepatch is coming until Blizzard announces it.
The Female Human laughing noise is spooky
tiny stream
I know we discussed it yesterday a little, but I'm glad they nerfered WoD leveling
urban talon
we dont know when prepatch is coming until Blizzard announces it.
@tropic trail "it's coming when it's ready"
imagine releasing shadowlands in 1 month
and the pre-patch isn't ready
shadowlands gonna be fixed in 9.3
silent urchin
iirc SeTec9 is one of the lead server engineers and probably the person who sent that message
granite lion
With all that being said, this is pretty good news.
lime venture
pre-patch event is up again in Ptr?
foggy abyss
It has always been up
lime venture
no
tropic trail
still no announcement for pre patch huh?
Prepatch is cancelled
Shadowlands is postponed to 2022
granite lion
If it releases th 6th, I feel like tomorrow would be the day for the announcement. If not, its goimg to be the 13th.
errant hinge
They announced the pre patch date the Friday before for Legion and BFA was the Thursday before. If we don’t hear anything tomorrow or Friday though then it’s the 13th.
tight ferry
Well 5 days seems pretty unlikely not sure what happened to pr they communicated a lot more some years ago.
mossy perch
Probably a lot going on
ancient jasper
PR? What PR? Blizzard fired them all.
tropic trail
I wonder when people will remember that we're in a world-changing pandemic atm
Have some class WoW peeps
The game will release when it's ready
wind lake
frozen stratus
Or will it 
wind lake
Any1 else got the mail?
tropic trail
OR WILL IT
frozen stratus
I think shadowlands will release when activision says
wind lake
Received the mail last night
tropic trail
Prepatch will come when its ready like that one person said
frozen stratus
Doesnt mean its ready
Just cause you launch a product doesnr mean its finished or complete or ready for that launch anymore
Sadly
tropic trail
It's pretty much there tbh, I'd rather Blizz didn't spend an extra two months solely focusing on balancing Covenants no one will be happy with anyway
tropic trail
Mhm, I invite you to use my words against me if Shadowlands isn't complete by release day
I said the same thing before BfA and ate my words hard
wind lake
If they are still giving beta keys to test, then it takes at least 1 week.
wind lake
💯 💯 💯
frozen stratus
Either way a month extra but less crunch would be better
tropic trail
Crunch is terrible, I hate it
frozen stratus
I dispise it
tropic trail
My job has 2 hours a day extra mandatory overtime
frozen stratus
I detest it
tropic trail
Its fucked
frozen stratus
Jusy all the time??????
tropic trail
For the foreseeable future yeah
Thankfully that time is spent mostly just watching YouTube LOL
faint crystal
been changed for a bit hasnt it
tight ferry
Like 4 days ago it still said December
I play a minigame of what edition should I buy for weeks now
errant wraith
it may mean its pushed back or it could mean nothing
errant wraith
i have personal feelings about the company itself. all ill say is the past says it should have happened already, and we've yet to be notified when the season will end.. blizzard said soon with no eta.. that is the only reason i have doubts it gets released on time
tight ferry
Blizzard has a tendency to lose info
Because it goes through 800 people
Not knowing when shit will be released is pretty usual
mossy perch
they don't lose info at all
they're just swamped with a global pandemic, working from home and having to deal with a major release
if they throw it out and its still ridden with bugs then it's a problem, there's not -that- much content within the PTR to even worry about, it's everything else thats the issue
its not just a couple of hair changes and a colour
tight ferry
You can use the pandemic excuse for a while but I'm working too in this conditions and communicating with 500-600 people that work from home and I still need to report or I get booted.
It's hard not impossible.
mossy perch
okay? are you working on an entire rework of a levelling system within an MMO, alongside an overhaul of cosmetic functions?
they don't -have- to report to us
tight ferry
Never said that
errant wraith
no idea whats happening im not behind the scenes, i just know the usually pattern of old expansions thats the only thing im going on. and expansions always release with bugs in it they are never perfect the game also acts different when its on the live servers some bugs seem to just disappear for whatever reason
tight ferry
But the total lack if communication and dev diaries that other companies manage during the pandemic is strange.
And it's not like they don't have thousands of workers to share the load.
mossy perch
they are constantly working with and talking to us, you are aware of this right?
errant wraith
ill mention one thing though.. i do miss pvp scaling... my 50k health when i just turned 120 a couple weeks ago verse someone with 800k health is a little... disappointing
mossy perch
there hasn't been a single week in this lead up where they haven't directly connected with the community
the only thing they haven't mentioned is a release date for the prepatch
errant wraith
i forgot which expansion had pvp scaling but i liked that better
tight ferry
And some other things yea.
mossy perch
such as? what else relating to the expansion have they not talked about
errant wraith
i think we have everything dont we? and everything is in beta?
mossy perch
yup
errant wraith
except for the updates that come after the expansion ofc but thats a given
tight ferry
I can't write anything to satisfy you. But I work with companies as a game tester and things are different work every single one. So I rest my case.
mossy perch
so you don't know and just need a reason to complain, alright
tight ferry
Nope
mossy perch
then state your case, don't just give a cop-out answer, it makes you look dumb
tight ferry
You are just aggressively defending them
And I don't have the energy to calm you down while I'm writing my reasons
mossy perch
i'm asking you to put forward your points, there's no aggression in this
you're just not putting forward anything other than "no they're not"
tight ferry
I wrote that last time and before that and before that they did things different
And that the pandemic excuse is not a valid one
You said it is
mossy perch
And now because they're paying closer attention to the game and the community it's bad?
mossy perch
I never said the pandemic was a valid excuse, I gave it as an example
We won't go anywhere because you won't put forward your points and hide behind "im a game tester" as if your job makes any difference
errant wraith
we dont know their working conditions, they said everything is on schedule... schedule is what we look at when we look at the past, judging by the past everything isnt on schedule
tight ferry
So saying that I work in the same conditions
Is hiding behind it
Yea
That's why we won't go anywhere
mossy perch
It means literally nothing, yes
if you cannot understand why that means nothing, then yes, we won't go anywhere
and it essentially means you have zero points to bring up
tight ferry
So do you.
tight ferry
Right now you just say my point are wrong without giving any counter to it.
errant wraith
doing worse in what way? like fun in the game in general?
mossy perch
My point is that they're doing more than they have previously in terms of community outreach and actually listening to feedback, as seen with class / covenant and a multitude of other things within the game
but apparently this isn't enough
tight ferry
So they doing what 99% of companies did all along.
errant wraith
it is never enough, everyone has their own likes and dislikes you can never appease them all, you can only the majority. judging by again the past, the majority prefer this type of gameplay
tropic trail
Blizz communicates far more than any MMO dev out there. FFXIV and ESO see almost no inter-expansion communication.
tight ferry
Communication with a player base and tuning accordingly is not a unicorn thing. They get free labor.
mossy perch
what
tight ferry
Ofc they use it
errant wraith
in the past 4 days ive made 7 tickets... blizzard replied to them all within 12 hours. since this is right before an expansion they get more volumes then usual which imo is great reply time
tropic trail
I feel like you're espousing things you want to be true rather than things that are true.
tight ferry
Not really mate just don't want people to forget that blizz made some pretty questionable things before. So we don't need to defend anything they do or don't. I get that shit is hard. I won't even hold it up against them. But that doesn't mean they couldn't do better. They doing alright.
mossy perch
"blizz made some pretty questionable things before."
nothing to do with anything currently
"But that doesn't mean they couldn't do better"
this is quite literally the best they've done before an expansion they've ever put out in terms of listening and interacting with the community
tropic trail
Every company makes questionable decisions and we rightfully call them out for it. I'll defend them for inane accusations against them that aren't true though.
mossy perch
you're just wanting to be mad for the sake of it, for whatever reason
tight ferry
Why do you think I'm mad?
mossy perch
because you're going after them for made up reasons with almost no basis
tropic trail
You are expressing irrational dislike for them.
mossy perch
just flat-out wrong about them, in most cases
errant wraith
"questionable things" are all in the eyes of the beholder... imo world quests are these things.. but im in the 1% so oh well
tropic trail
But the total lack if communication and dev diaries that other companies manage during the pandemic is strange.
This for example is a complete falsehood
Dev diaries come from brand new games, for one
tight ferry
When did we get a video last time?
tropic trail
And two, we've seen tons of conversations
Did you miss the dozen plus video interviews Ion and his staff did with content creators
mossy perch
streams etc
errant wraith
ive yet to watch the videos, and arent these videos ingame ?
mossy perch
podcasts, interviews, all things generally outside of mainstream press and on content creators pages; all with Ion right there
errant wraith
the afterlives series, im assuming are ingame
tropic trail
Probably
He's talking about dev interviews though
Of which there were several
Blizz also regularly puts out commentary on the forums and in blue posts
tight ferry
Not really I'm talking about the bfa style 2 devs sit down and talk.
tropic trail
Those happen during the expansion lol
errant wraith
oh i dont care about those, ive never been to a stream before, i just play wow before an expansion or when im extremely bored irl
opaque pewter
I don't follow things closely because I don't want to be spoiled, but the communication was definitely there
tight ferry
@tropic trail now I need to say that that's incorrect.
mossy perch
If the goalposts are now "well since there's no sit down then its worse"
tropic trail
And even if Shadowlands were here, we cant have two people sitting right next to each other
opaque pewter
But what I'm seeing here is just dismissal
mossy perch
Twitter
errant wraith
usually the expansion itself is over hyped for me, and i just dont care after 1 day. i like it when they nerf stuff and leveling and questing is easier at the end of the expansion
tropic trail
They're doing better than their immediate competitors
The only real information FFXIV players get about new expansions comes from in person expos
Dev interviews are a few to none
ESO has almost no public communication at all
mossy perch
"But the total lack if communication and dev diaries that other companies manage during the pandemic is strange."
"Blizzard has a tendency to lose info
Because it goes through 800 people"
"And some other things yea." - still no clarification on that one btw
"So they doing what 99% of companies did all along."
"Communication with a player base and tuning accordingly is not a unicorn thing. They get free labor."
seems like dismissal to me
errant wraith
i have to disagree, they showcase how things are even made within the game engine itself... ESO does.. they have great communications when a dlc is about to release
tropic trail
WoW does that as well.
tight ferry
Yea. Transparency is lacking.
tropic trail
They've done a few engineering videos already.
tight ferry
And it's delusional to think beta testers are not free labor.
errant wraith
i know nothing abotu ffxiv, i never played it during a release before
mossy perch
So having a public / private beta is now a bad thing in your eyes or
tight ferry
No.
tropic trail
Yea. Transparency is lacking.
Where
mossy perch
oh, a definitive answer for once
errant wraith
in general though comparing it to other companies is a bad idea. blizzard is known for a quality that should be held above all others. giving them tough love imo shouldnt be meant with "well this other game studio does things worse"
mossy perch
especially given that this has been the most they've ever been in contact with the community regarding an expansion, just seems a bit ironic that people then say "its not good enough" when it's the best we've ever had it
tight ferry
That's not transparency mate. That's info dump.
errant wraith
just a prefernce but i like adding < > to my links so it doesnt take up so much space
mossy perch
goalposts?
tight ferry
Info dump is a good tool to not answer questions.
mossy perch
you're not asking anything
you've been backpeddaling for so long you've not even asked a question
tropic trail
Okay so you dont know what the transparency you're talking about is orrrrr
tight ferry
Ofc now that I'm defending my position I'm backpaddle
mossy perch
you were right at the start, wasn't going to go anywhere because you literally have nothing
tropic trail
Dude answer the question so we can move on
mossy perch
you've picked a ditch to die on as opposed to a hill
tropic trail
What transparency is lacking
tight ferry
So yeah.
tropic trail
Heavy
What transparency
Is
Lacking
If you dont provide an actual answer im going to assume you're just using buzz words
mossy perch
yep
tight ferry
If I provide one you say I'm back paddling.
tropic trail
Okay so its a buzz word
mossy perch
so you're not going to argue your point
tropic trail
Thank you
Moving on, Blizzard's communication has been great and beta testers are v useful
It's not labour however
tight ferry
Yes and info dump is transparency
tropic trail
You refuse to tell me what transparency is by your definition after saying they lack it
So yeah, its just buzz words at that point
If you cant provide a simple definition to back up your argument you've already lost
tight ferry
- Language if you are ready to translate from Hungarian I'm more than happy looking up definitions as I go is not easy for tech shit. But this is back paddling in your eyes
tropic trail
You appear to speak English just fine
tight ferry
Good. I don't.
mossy perch
gonna be honest, thats the best way of trying to get out of an argument i've seen in a while
tight ferry
@mossy perch and that's a good assumption to win one
tropic trail
I shouldn't be up this late, just stop being so damn negative all the time folks
errant wraith
im just going back and fourth, ive noticed only Elegy egging you on, and someone called Heavy dumb earlier for having an opinion.. imo the argument is in the gutter as is because people cant keep is civil
mossy perch
if you're winning it for me by not answering basic questions relating to your points then..
tropic trail
It's annoying
tight ferry
Well the problem of this conversation that every time I make a controversial point I need to fckin write an essay to prove it to angry internet people that I know what I'm talking about. So here is the answer you are waiting for: they doing alright but dancing around the answers people care about and dump info on our heads so while we read they can make up some shit to delay answering. They doing alright. Still lack of transparency regarding why the build barely fckin stands 1 month before release and crashes every hour for 70% of the player base.
mossy perch
So baseless and just being upset at nothing
And this is 10 years of games testing, i see
tight ferry
We are at the " it's your driver that is wrong point"
We will step into the have you reinstalled the game point in a week.
mossy perch
What a waste of time thinking you had a point 😔
tight ferry
Yea an alpha build that is barely functional is not a point.
26 days to the official release.
mossy perch
Yes because it specifically says “beta” in it
tight ferry
It says
errant wraith
expansions always release with bugs... this is normal....
tight ferry
It isn't.
mossy perch
But it is
errant wraith
it is, what fairy tale game have you been playing?
mossy perch
You’re just straight up wrong
tight ferry
Gimme the definition of a beta
mossy perch
???
errant wraith
world of warcraft expansions always have bugs
mossy perch
Its a product not yet finished and still in testing. Its in beta, you can look anywhere and see that
#beta-shadowlands ask there for a version
errant wraith
it doesnt matter what it is labeled world of warcraft launches are not always smooth.. they can easily launch this tomorrow and give stuff up while we play it, the main goal of the beta is trying to fix all the exploits and major bugs
mossy perch
Its been out of alpha now for.. couple of months, if i had to guess?
Beta went public a while after
Its common knowledge, easily googled
If you werent aware of that then uh.. maybe its not blizzards communication but your comprehension
tight ferry
@mossy perch mind if I dm you?
errant wraith
one thing to give someone information another to smoother it in their faces and be a douche about it. you also have to learn on your communication skills. no reason to be a turd
mossy perch
Hazel you’re the only one insulting people here
errant wraith
i just blocked him, you are fine to have your own opinion and he is fine to have his, but i do not like how toxic they are being. back to what ive been doing
tight ferry
Writing from passion or anger or IDK what you are using has a negative impact of now remembering what you said 2 minutes ago
You want to win the conversation not to communicate.
mossy perch
I’m not asking you to, I’m asking you to put over any valid points
tight ferry
You need to defeat me so your day is better
tight ferry
That's why I want to dm you
mossy perch
Can post here if its relevant
tight ferry
Not so relevant to insult your knowledge about shit you have at most google knowledge about.
So yeah
Let's move on.
mossy perch
Asking you to put forward a valid point isnt being a douche, its just asking you to treat a conversation properly without resorting to baseless (and very false) accusations
But since you’re upset, we can move on
upper temple
maybe you should stop that argument
errant wraith
okay after reading this, i blame you both for being horrible people, geez. this isnt cool. its just a game
tight ferry
That's the best line in an hour or so. I. Wanted to move this to dms. But without the support of public chat macho isn't ready.
errant wraith
what set are dks wearin the character creation screen?
strange falcon
damn this chat really had fun earlier
@errant wraith if they didnt change it,it's the Nighthold mythic set
limpid spade
is there a fast way to test dungeons on PTR? mostly seeing group finder empty and queues take ages as dps
errant wraith
which should be soloable next expansion?
strange falcon
people on ptr are mostly testing class changes,so the fastest way you'd get a group,is by getting a group on discord,and meeting up ingame
it is what should happen yes
you can solo it right now with very high gear
errant wraith
yeah im a shaman that is in resto gear, so next expansion it is lol
crisp steeple
Anyone know if you get Exiles Reach weapons of one faction, you get the transmog for the other faction? Or if you don't if I earn Horde Exiles Reach weapons, will I be able to transmog them on Alliance or are they faction locked?
tropic trail
pretty sure those are faction locked
crisp steeple
Anyone know for sure?
soft flower
Is warfront gear faction locked
upper lantern
For wearing it, yeah. For acquiring, it isn't
tropic trail
well we finally got a prepatch release date lol
inner copper
I mean, I don’t have a higher than lvl 20 leather user on horde but I have the warfront sets unlocked cause I have Alliance druid with the set
errant hinge
At least we’re getting the pre patch soon 100% fine with the delay I do believe it was needed just assumed it wouldn’t happen cause of activision
tropic trail
yuup
same here
Why do they bring out Prepatch by the 13th of october when they dont know when SL is coming out this year?
That makes 0 sense
tropic trail
And play an broken game till it gets fixxed?
We all now that the prepatch status of the game is broken beyond repair in the power department
silent urchin
I mean
tranquil steeple
pre-patch is class changes and customization
tranquil steeple
that's not really the most broken things to worry about
silent urchin
because the balance is done for the new max level
thick saddle
prepatch is never balanced
@silent urchin Prepatch is ALWAYS balanced. But it's balanced for the new Level cap, which is not obtainable until launch proper.
That's how it's always been with past expansions and pre-patches.
tropic trail
Yeah, that was what I meant
I get the feeling they will release SL by the 15th of December
thick saddle
Prepatch won't be out 2 months before the expansion... With the prepatch now being announced for the 13th (14th EU), expect SL by Mid, to late November.
tropic trail
I would support December too
Two months is perfectly reasonable. MoP prepatch was 8 weeks.
placid granite
Pre-Patch is in two parts
frozen stratus
the event will be much later?
tropic trail
Er
thick saddle
MoP pre-patch was too long compare to most expansions. 4-6 weeks, tops.
placid granite
First Pre-Patch is new leveling, customization, Chromie all that
frozen stratus
Cata rght
placid granite
And second is the whole Scourge event
tropic trail
Im a big liar
tiny stream
I'm thrilled that we are getting some content to fill the time. Now we have a while to level alts and get ready.
slender ember
^^^
plain vigil
Also the perfect time to get your friends addicted to involved in wow
strange falcon
You joke about it but my brother passed down the curse when i was 8
Damn scoundrel
thick saddle
Impressive Influence buff is back, for the entire month (including 2 weeks post-prepatch)
tropic trail
Man, i just noticed that the requirement lvl 30 item from the event have been boosted to 50 for the ilvl 100 😦
rip twink 30
main kindle
So just read exactly what prepatch entails, and wow, I feel kinda ambivalent about this whole thing. I just started playing again like 2 weeks ago, got to 110 on one toon (own Legion from when I played for like a month a year ago, wasn't bothering to get BFA b/c of Shadowlands when it was releasing at the end of this month, that has changed now obviously). I don't know how I feel. The level squish feels weird. 8 expansions to get to 120 and now it just goes back down to 60 lol. All feels kinda weird.
tropic trail
Nothing else they could do. Making people go through 129 levels?
It was too much 39 levels ago.
main kindle
I mean you aren't wrong, although with the covid 19 experience buff leveling felt ok to me personally. A little over two weeks to max level one toon doesn't feel unreasonable in my opinion. Although I did find myself leveling out of areas constantly b/c I also did dungeons and bgs in between progressing through quest. I like the idea of playing through a whole continent and experiencing all the different areas, but that wasn't really feasible during the process of leveling to max it felt like.
mossy dome
I suspect the release date will be pushed back the same amount of time as prepatch would have been
Assuming it should have been last week common sense wise
I suspect 3 weeks later, and another week if that lines up with thanksgiving (think the week before)
limpid spade
I don't mind waiting and all, but as someone who also plays (mainly) FFXIV, it sucks if they push it early December
timing is shit and ofc commercially beneficial for Blizz to some extent
dense plover
i bet its going to be early or mid dec with release of the raid in january
at this point, any delay means raid in january
so the question is - long gap before raid or long gap before expac
frozen stratus
you know I would love a long gap before raid
dense plover
and the raid is balanced around a certain level of player power from covenants which have a weekly power gap
frozen stratus
like a solid huge gap
dense plover
so i suspect, while it will be longer than intended (more than 2 weeks), they dont want it to be more than 3 or 4
Dec 15th is the most reasonable - week before christmas, raid can release 2nd week of january which means only 1-2 extra weeks of player power
frozen stratus
i'd like that peach
would also give them more time to make sure everything is in order before raid
like just finish up balance tuning a week before raid drop
etc.
you know?
frozen stratus
sounds reasonable to me
I mean most of the issue is bugs, polish and balance; no?
frozen stratus
yeah
definitely humanly possible within that timeframe
1 month
just a big hell no from me
even if you outsourced
there'd be no way
severe gull
good they are waiting and making sure its all good before releasing, means less bugs can only be good
soft flower
Kinda upset I bought the 6 month sub now -_-
potent tree
at least 2 of those months will be of old content imo.
also i just leveled from 1-50 in 6 hours and 58 minutes.
tropic trail
also i just leveled from 1-50 in 6 hours and 58 minutes.
@potent tree by just leveling and doing dungeons? or with special xp boost stuff
magic echo
Dumb question but does anyone know if character copies have been reenabled on PTR yet?
The mog catalog is all wonky for the old copy I made back at 8.2 and I have no idea if it's just the old copy, or a PTR bug.
digital wadi
It was enabled when I tried during the week
dense plover
chromie is purposefully disabled on ptr
frozen stratus
are you sure peach?
frozen stratus
is it auto disabled on characters who already had it on?
tight ferry
leagion still forced me to go to outland
frozen stratus
at 80?
tight ferry
now i could go to howling fjord
tight ferry
yea kinda missed that one
but im happy
you can skip wod pretty much
and go to 100 with pandaria
tight ferry
never did it 😄
frozen stratus
they just nerfed it hard
tight ferry
even post nerf
frozen stratus
but it is still like an hr faster
tight ferry
yea
frozen stratus
ye
you'll likely still do wod anyways
since its just so easy
ill let the pros like des mephisto work that out tbh
mrpeach chromie time is still enabled?
dense plover
it is? i thought it wasnt on ptr but was on beta
frozen stratus
it is on both
dense plover
huh
frozen stratus
I actually just found an issue with chromie time im putting in a report
frozen stratus
frozen stratus
whats up?
dense plover
its using the expac cap for the portal
frozen stratus
but 32 isnt an expac cap ?
dense plover
you can get a new hearthstone from any innkeep @tight ferry
tight ferry
yea but not back to sw 😄
tight ferry
thank god im playing a dk
and ahve flightpaths
well chromie is bugged or disabled
its not working for sure on pt
frozen stratus
its working fine for me
what race
what account status
there is some kind of either bug, oversight, or you're doing something wrong
tight ferry
i have a max level on the same ptr realm
frozen stratus
and you copied?
tight ferry
frozen stratus
no achievement?
frozen stratus
so it updated?
tight ferry
so either i created that vulpera
before it got thta
that
and now its fcked
or its just fcked
so i try that
frozen stratus
retry on new toon
for chromie
I wonder
maybe its tagging characters at creation and checking if the account has the level 50 achievement and if not permanently tags the character as being a new player until itself earns the achievement
@dense plover thoughts?
frozen stratus
you made the vulpera before copying over account data right?
tight ferry
im really not sure mate
i already copied it once
should it work cross faction?
well now it shows up on the map
yea
it works
guess the copy was the culprit
or allied races
frozen stratus
it being allied races seems weird to me
you could test by making another ptr account, copying over account data, and doing an allied race again.
tight ferry
not sure the first thing i did when i made an acc that i copied my acc data
frozen stratus
im not sure then
fading girder
i dont' think you can make more than one ptr account
fading girder
when did they add that
frozen stratus
its always been there for this ptr
fading girder
ah
back in the day i made multiple b.net accounts to have multiple ptr accounts o.o
that was cata or mop
spiral horizon
How long does it take to reach level 50 in ptr?
dull flame
🤔 i got to 30 in few hours
coral kite
Just downloaded ptr and copied char, isnt there anything to do at lvl50 in ptr?
placid granite
Ptr isn't Beta Shadowlands.
fading dirge
How much time u was leveling from 45 to 50?
tiny stream
Once you hit 50, you just have bfa endgame tasks right now. Tranmogs, raiding, visions, etc. without corruptions
But this is a GREAT time to build your 4+ characters you will want for Shadowlands.
Cause you will want 1 character per covenant for the covenant campaign
strange falcon
you could also do legion endgame tasks
like balance of power,class mount
and secret artifact skin
terse anvil
how long do the class mounts take to get?
limpid spade
is it possible to mog 1hand swords to fists on the PTR?
with the new mog changes that is
upper lantern
Yeah, I think I did that on a ww monk
crisp steeple
only for monks and rogues
strange falcon
@terse anvil its reach 110,complete class.hall campaign and the entire broken shore campaign(12parts)
The broken shore heavily depends on how lucky you are with WQ,rares etc but maybe 3day for it
terse anvil
ty for response
strange falcon
Noproblemo```
cloud ermine
so I've tried to tp my 50lvl char to MoP through jade forest portal in orgri and my game doesn't let me in anymore, tested with another char same result. reported. anyone else minds doing so and reporting?
strange falcon
Maybe it doesnt count it as "out of chromie time"yet
terse anvil
gotta be a certain level to go there
cloud ermine
well yes its 120 on retail and 50 on ptr
dense plover
pandaria is broken
upper lantern
how? scaling of mobs, xp?
sonic flame
tropic trail
Thats gonna be a funny ride with prepatch next week and the Exp Release in December
Guess Blizz likes to see everything go down and burn xD
frozen stratus
what are you on about?
tropic trail
Glad my Gametime runs out by the 20th of October xD
frozen stratus
tropic trail
The Prepatch is making us all weaker
frozen stratus
yeah thatsa good thing
tropic trail
many stuff is broken
like pandaria, lvl squish, power in ,,older" raids when I am already lvl 50 and so on
terse anvil
no one wants to go to panda land
frozen stratus
they nerfed old raids so there shouldnt be problems
terse anvil
got to wotlk like a man
tropic trail
With my copied char I needed 7 mins for the LK 25 Men fight
tropic trail
on retail now only 1-2 mins cause of Roleplay
terse anvil
wod did have good leveling
frozen stratus
ye
they nerfed the shit outta wod sadly
kinda wanted to see it live as a joke but yaknow its good its fixed 
tropic trail
Would you rather farm your UnluckRNJesus 14x7 mins per week or 14x2 mins per week?
I have a strong opinion here about it xD
frozen stratus
that moment ptr fks up my hotbars and slow fall is where blink is supposed to be >.<
tropic trail
I enjoyed watching you fall to your death. Welcome to Basion! YOu are here for ever now @frozen stratus !
tropic trail
I feel betrayed... I will tell everyone in the Shadowlands about it!
terse anvil
ugh.. I should probably completely overhaul my ui.. and addons
frozen stratus
same knarles
terse anvil
I mean we have the time
frozen stratus
ye
terse anvil
ohh
terse anvil
ohh yeah no neck
terse anvil
massive il booster
frozen stratus
glacial spike would just one shot bosses still
but frostbolt/ice lance wouldnt
so you are definitely weaker
frozen stratus
but frost mages just dont have instant burst yaknow
at least not when running glacial
terse anvil
do you know what the people mean when they say pandaria is broken? Is it just the scaling or
cloud ermine
So after reporting bugs is there any way to see them somewhere? Or at least any feedback in form "ye it was a bug in our stuff and we fixed it" or something?
tight ferry
Patch notes.
They don't really give you any feedback
You just see them fixed and pat yourself on the back.
strange falcon
they send you an email ingame for reporting players,but for reporting bugs on the beta/ptr
they dont give any notice
you just see for yourself if they fixed it or not
they fixed one of mrpeach's bugs last build
proper scarab
noob question: will I be able to complete Visions after pre-patch or in Shadowlands? I took a (long?) break, but now I want to get the We Have The Technology achiev and buy the backpack for transmog! Am I really too late for this?
I know that corruptions effects will disappear, tho
frozen stratus
you can do visions but there will be some feats of strength going away
proper scarab
Ah, damn. I'm not a lucky person so...
frozen stratus
the one you want isn't going away