Its not about the size of the world
#beta-ptr-spoilers
plain vigil
It's about the amount of people you see playing the game.
zealous basalt
A lot of people connected at once
RPG - Role Playing Game
You play on a role of something else that level up
plain vigil
And when the world is old and dead with no incentive to redesign it, old areas, leveling zones, do not feel massive in player count.
zealous basalt
It is not an argument even
Like, why argue about what it means to be massive or if its because the lack of redesign
plain vigil
Wow used to be a web of activities, and now it's a linear short story. Basically an RPG with DLC and people walking around you revamping the world would bring back that concept of exploring the world, you'd see more people everywhere.
zealous basalt
....Because it grew up
plain vigil
The people exist they're just concintrated in the same zones
zealous basalt
Expacs are DLCs
And trust me when I tell you
If they revamp the world
they will make it more linear
ivory meadow
damn Destiny must suck then.
plain vigil
I really don't like destiny
zealous basalt
There are
plain vigil
Not saying it's bad
zealous basalt
a shit ton of linear games that have a great story
Heck
WoW -is- a linear story
plain vigil
Just that it's risking leaving the genre
zealous basalt
what the fuck are yout alking about
RPGs -are- linear
you have your definitions wrong
even classic is Linear
plain vigil
No. They have a main storyline yes, but they have non linear content throughout
zealous basalt
THAT'S NOT WHAT IT MEANS
gods
dude either you need to learn about linearity and free-roam or stop
plain vigil
Lmao let's just move on and agree to disagree yeah?
zealous basalt
no , fuck that
plain vigil
Cause this isn't getting anywhere
zealous basalt
You are making it hard
ivory meadow
W.T.F
zealous basalt
Stuborness is one thing, but you are different
zealous basalt
Im not trying to insult you but, gods, linearity is something different
Linear or having a free way to roam
uncut lintel
heheheheeeeee
tropic trail
What's going on, monk brother?
zealous basalt
WoW is
A linear story
with multiple choices to the way how you want to end at the beggining
but making a story with multiple choices
makes it different from a storytelling narrative
Because it comes with the cons of the question of the billion
"What is considered canon, and what is not"
plain vigil
By definition wow is open world and non-linear because you can choose the zone you want to quest in and the line of quests you follow. As they've put more focus on expansions they've moved away from that into a singular storyline
zealous basalt
Not even
ivory meadow
it was never non-linear from a story perspective.
plain vigil
Classic?
night swift
It is now though
zealous basalt
You tied it from zone to zone
plain vigil
BC?
zealous basalt
The first 5
plain vigil
Both non-linear
night swift
Ok but like MoP
uncut lintel
im sitting here wondering what the ffuck linear means
night swift
Warlords
zealous basalt
MoP is non linear
night swift
Legion
zealous basalt
Legion is non linear too Jhock
plain vigil
Same with WoTLK you chose where to start. Mop is where things began to go linear and it got worse each xpac, taking more choice away from the player
zealous basalt
because its the best for the player
plain vigil
Legion is linear because you're required to complete every zone in order to progress
tropic trail
I still wonder... was Taelia the adventurer in Kul Tiras questing lorewise?
zealous basalt
That is why it started becoming fixed to each zone
So the player can feel
Immersed into it
plain vigil
Wotlk isn't linear, sure the end game content is, but you choose to either progress through the right or left side of Northrend.
zealous basalt
And it ends on the same place
ivory meadow
which means fuck all in the grand scheme of things in the story.
zealous basalt
Non-linearity hurts narrative
I think there is a canon explanation of who started where
plain vigil
Wow is about the player though not the ending of the story
zealous basalt
Sadly
Flaw of design if you ask me
Giving a player that amount of freedom leads to very controversial things
plain vigil
Like fun?
ivory meadow
the player is just there to let the story play out.
zealous basalt
In theory
but we have become so entitled
that we want the story to move WITH us
night swift
Its cause they keep making us super story important
We’re not the adventurer anymore
zealous basalt
A stupid decision tbh
tropic trail
I miss being a random adventurer that happened to be there
zealous basalt
I like dealing a lot of damage for the sake of easyness
plain vigil
The player is there to be the player and Experience the world, the story is there to give the player a reason to move forward. The issue with our argument isn't a lack of understanding of each other, it's that we view how the game should be created differently
night swift
Like we go from “The Highlord” to “The Mainlander” in bfa
tropic trail
I like my Grandmaster title. But use Brawler
zealous basalt
Unless you are mean to start from the beggining as an op person that's good
but again
it's different for everyone
night swift
Like ff14 we are a set title from basically the beginning
zealous basalt
The PC should have that amount of influence?
I think it depends
Since the NPCs of WoW take any NPC as the NPC that went through raids
....
PC*
night swift
The only thing that was kind of confirmed was the factions that took down some old raids
zealous basalt
And it kinda conflicts with how are we treated in game
But it's done nonetheless
Legion was the decisive point of PC storytelling
And it kinda fixed it as "the godly person"
No matter what they do I don't think they can ever delete that
night swift
Legion screwed a lot of character development tbh
zealous basalt
BfA made us "The Mainlander"
night swift
Especially with new classes now
zealous basalt
and worse
"Champion of Azeroth"
So you have two conflicted titles
And I agree JHock
Legion screwed character development
tropic trail
I like how Valtrois called us Outlander at the beginning of Suramar
zealous basalt
And then we shut her up
plain vigil
I feel like we're starting to get on the same page here Makore, we just have different philosophies for how to fix the issue
zealous basalt
A world revamp is not the way to fix the PC development
Because you will still become godly
plain vigil
Correct, but it's a way to make the game feel less linear and more relevant.
tropic trail
"Bystander! Help me kill The Jailor!"
zealous basalt
that is not the solution
ivory meadow
when you go from essentially the savior of gods to just mainlander...
zealous basalt
if all making it linear is the best thing
but
extend it
Let's be honest here
the "Open world" RPG thing
Is not a good selling thing anymore
Open world as in being free of start whenever you want and do the story you want
Linearity is a good way to be introduced to a story
I would have loved a million of times
Following the story of Westfall
Since it abruptly stopped at the burning of Sentinel Hill and we didn't know anything after it
Just...a filler quest to go to another area
tropic trail
Isn't that why they make new players start in the new zone then get sent into BfA?
zealous basalt
I'd have to play the new zone, Lyo
tropic trail
True
Honestly, I don't think people will return to old world questing unless they farm rare mobs
zealous basalt
But really
tropic trail
Which I doubt will exist in the new zone
zealous basalt
I think, gandem, that if they remake a new world for a new expac
Say goodbye to the "freedom" of non linear
plain vigil
How so?
zealous basalt
Because if all they wouldmake it a strict linear storyline taht someone have to fit on the new area and touch all the expacs
You would have to bend in all the topics of the past expacs
And sandboxing it would make it a mess
plain vigil
That's what I'm saying tho. They wouldn't make any linear storylines. Go to Kul'Tiras, what type of world quests do you get?
zealous basalt
Oh
but they -would-
and they will
I am not talking about the world quests
I am talking about the mqs of the world revamp
Just think about it
in a developer stand-point
Why would you revamp a whole world?
Put aside the excuse of "its because players would like it"
Come up with straight facts
A) You would fix all the holes of the stories
B) You would come up with resolutions
tropic trail
Honestly, a visual revamp would be nice
zealous basalt
C) Coming up with ties to old expacs that feel fresh
D) Simplify it for a better and enjoyable experience for the player
Because new players aren't that interested in getting lost
let me tell you
Here comes a story from a noob Makore a lot of years ago when I tried Cata
I choosed a quest that sent me from Elwynn to Loch without any knowledge of dwarves
Feel how much was the change from Westfall to Loch
tropic trail
"Bearded midgets?"
plain vigil
You get simple stuff, like help this farmer kill some seagulls. Stuff like that. They don't have to make quests, they just need to put up engaging world quests with a few strings of story to move you through zones. Want to stay local to the dwarves? Stay in the Dun Morough-hinteroands zones and help the local townsfolk. It doesn't have to be any major big stories, have bounty boards for example with world quests for killing a specific type of job or rare to that zone . You remove all the focus on past expansions and put the focus on helping the locals of each zone. Maybe getting things unique to that zone along the way. Hell, you could even consolidate zones by reputation. So the hilsbrad and arathi could become one big zone for example.
zealous basalt
Why do you want world quests?
My question comes because
you aren't looking for the msq btu just the world quests
plain vigil
Can you define mqs? I'm unfamiliar with that abbreviation
zealous basalt
The thing we do in every rpg when following the main story questline
The thing you and I do when we go through the areas
Questing
not world questing
Focus on questing
Let put aside the system that is world quest
uncut lintel
?
zealous basalt
Why would you want a game where you do everything via world quests?
plain vigil
Right. Your goal in leveling from 1-50 Should be just that. Leveling. You save the big crazy questlines for expansions and focus 1-50 on raising your hero through completing worldquests to help the locals.
tropic trail
I think... for simplicity's sake?
uncut lintel
World quest suck no thanks
plain vigil
Leveling with worldquests, and then major questlines saved for end game content
uncut lintel
Loool
zealous basalt
Why the revamp then?
Like, do you just care about new graphics and wqs?
Stop being selfish for a moment, please
tropic trail
Aw... I want a visual revamp. But only visual
zealous basalt
plain vigil
@uncut lintel with the current state of world quests I would agree, however they're revamping the worldquest system in Shadowlands. So I'm building this concept off of the idea that the Worldquest 2.0 system is successful
plain vigil
How am I being selfish. 😂
zealous basalt
Wq's is good for alts
uncut lintel
ehhh i still wont do them though lol
plain vigil
Correct
zealous basalt
Because you are just thinking in overleveling
Which is good for alts
But as a dev your main objetive are the new players
tropic trail
You know Mak
plain vigil
My point is to revamp the world FOR alts and new players. Not for the main.
zealous basalt
That is a waste of resources
zealous basalt
WQs doesnt help new players
tropic trail
World quests during questing would be nice if they were done like in GW2
tropic trail
During. Questing
zealous basalt
What im reading from Gandem is that he wants to make leveling mainly by WQs
tranquil steeple
if that's the case
plain vigil
Correct
zealous basalt
with main sequence of story being a small thing
uncut lintel
If that ever happened I would just buy boost
plain vigil
I'm glad you finally get what I've been saying for the past 3 hours 😂
ivory meadow
wait what?
uncut lintel
Is dumb
tranquil steeple
throw in more breadcrumb/connecting quests (between zones or simply hubs within a zone) and then area bonus objectives at certain level checkpoints
tropic trail
^
zealous basalt
It not just dumb but also an insult to new players
uncut lintel
I would quit
tranquil steeple
that way you feel more engaged in the story, and/or feel better about doing an optional objective
plain vigil
Again keep an open mind, I'm basing this off if worldquests 2.0 is successful. If it's unsuccessful obviously the current state of Worldquest in underwhelming
zealous basalt
One moment
Just a question
do you know what
wq 2.0 is?
Like do you know if it would do storytelling?
Because so far what I have learned is that it is just a better reward system
plain vigil
Hey Makore can you please type paragraphs so I can have time to respond rather than going line by line?
uncut lintel
Shadowlands is like a whole yr away
tranquil steeple
wqs 👏 are 👏 rep 👏 trackers
zealous basalt
When something says 2.0 it doesn't mean that it will revamp it entirely and make it something new
plain vigil
Cause I go to respond and then you're into another question Makore 😅
I understand that
tranquil steeple
I hate myself for that message, but I had to say it
tropic trail
You know, for as much as I hate the horde, the transition between Silverpine and Hillsbrad was excellent. I want more of it
zealous basalt
And again I ask
Do you think a world quest will do the job of a questing line when coming to storytelling?
Because if it's not then what MaoMao said will be better than a revamp
just buy a boost
ivory meadow
^^
zealous basalt
And the revamp would be a waste of resources just for eyecandy
Good for roleplayers
Bad for the rest
uncut lintel
Wouldn't ppl still just go to main xpac city?
zealous basalt
That too
plain vigil
I actually feel like this conversation would be better had over voice, would y'all mind jumping into a voice channel?
zealous basalt
No
uncut lintel
I cant talk
zealous basalt
I don't do voice in english servers, apologies.
ivory meadow
basically, all the world revamp will do is put a chain around the problem and fumble everything up.
plain vigil
Not a problem, it just may take me longer to explain my point then
ivory meadow
I mean we've been here for how many hours now?
zealous basalt
Just go straight for the point with these questions
ivory meadow
some time to figure what one wants to say wouldn't be too much
zealous basalt
1.- Will the world revamp solve story issues?
2.- Will it be a pleasant experience for new players?
3.- Will it be nice for alts?
4.- Linearity? How? Non-linear? How?
tranquil steeple
and to make it easier to read, if possible separate answers either by new line or number
uncut lintel
o - o
zealous basalt
You all know, its considered good manners to wait until someone ends the typing
Just...letting you all know.
uncut lintel
yes
tropic trail
Sorry Makore
uncut lintel
Anyone got any idea when next store mount comes out
tropic trail
Rare sight
tropic trail
You support the game, that's great :)
uncut lintel
They support me by putting cool mounts that I can just buy with just 25 bucks so I'd be satisfied enough bcuz I can't get any cool raid ones untill 2 xpacs later and my RNG sucks
(fuck you invincible..fuck you)
tropic trail
Is that bracket an insult or a wish?
uncut lintel
Both
tropic trail
Sorry I had to 😂
uncut lintel
xD
It's the only mount I want but every time I run it I just leave with a broken heart and pure dissapointment
plain vigil
Okay so I'm going to use an example from Kul'Tiras. There's a Worldquest where you go and help a fisherman with a seagull problem. He has a voiceline where he asked for help, you kill seagulls, get your reward, and move on.
When leveling throwing big storylines at a player can get confusing, especially in a new world of lore. If you make zones with a goal, say help out x amount of villagers, or gain x amount of rep (not locked on time but amount of Worldquests completed) you can have little self contained stories about the people who live in that zone. This helps new players slowly acclimate to new lore. While old players would have more of a choice on which zone they want to spend their time in.
Q: 1. Will the world Revamp solve story issues?
A: Ideally yes. You won't have issue with past expansions because the focus won't be on the world, just you leveling, and story focus on that zone, making a name for yourself.
Q: 2. Will it be a pleasent Experiance for new players?
A: Ideally yes. Players won't be sent to go kill major expansions bosses, maybe meet their racial leader, and a few important lore characters from each zone, but nothing that would be hard to swallow.
Q: 3. Will it be nice for alts?
A: That really depends on playstyle. If you're an RP person you'll be able to go start a new adventure and have meaningful RP interaction with people in the villages. If you're a speed leveler, you can just farm WQ's and not have to worry as much about travel time between quest givers and quest hubs. As the quests will just be visible on your map.
Q: 4. linearity? How? Non-linear? How?
A: So this question is a bit more complicated. It's really however the devs decide to go with it. I do have some ideas though.
If the devs want a linear story, they can frame each zone with a Worldquest or rep requirement. But how will you make rep not time gated for questing? Well, with the new party sync feature, everyone having the same worldquests on their map is no longer an issue. You could have worldquests cycle normally, but also allow players to get more worldquests just by completing them. So say you need to be friendly with the zone to progress in the story, doing 5 world quests will open up 5 more, no time gates, and party sync would sync worldquests between players.
If the devs want a non-linear story, maybe set some boundaries with level requirements for new players so they stay within a zone, but for returners allow them to go wherever they want.
Either way, the story wouldn't be synced to a specific expansion time, the storyline would be you working your way through the ranks by gaining favor with the denizens of Azeroth. Over time gaining levels until you can return to the playerbase and start the content questlines for the most recent expansion.
Bonuses Q: How would this then serve returning players?
A: you could have major world events like the legion prepatch where limited time worldquests spawn around the world. These worldquests would stay all expansion and/or all patch until a player reaches the level required to start the current expansion's questline. That way new and returning players would Experiance the current expansion without having a Perminant effect on the zone and future issues with zones being in a time paradox.
For those who are curious the old world would be instancable via the caverns of time, so they wouldn't have to remove old items/mounts/pets.
If I missed anything, or there's any more questions or holes you'd like to poke, i'd be more than happy to answer. Remember, the format is just to make things easier to read, all of this is speculative.
Damn character limits
tropic trail
👏
tranquil steeple
that much text well explains the 20 min typing, now to get to reading
zealous basalt
So from what I read
You are making the character the -main- focus of the revamp, basically a revamp for the PC itself
plain vigil
I hope this makes things easier to understand where I'm coming from. I feel like the issue with wq's now is that they're only for rep. With he prepatch it was a lot of fun leveling toons with the legion invasion world quests
Right but only from level 1-50 makore
Level 50-60 would be current expansion progress and normal quest-line Experiance
Although if a player really wants to return to the old world and level with wq's through Max I don't see that as an issue
zealous basalt
While the idea of having a world for a character is tempting
It doesn't convince me entirely over the use of WQ's
plain vigil
And that's well and fair
zealous basalt
It would have to wait and see how is 2.0
tranquil steeple
I am still heavily in favor of just throwing in bonus objectives (prime example being the ones in WoD) with sparkly rewards/good amount of EXP, that are only available for a few hours after reaching any applied level checkpoint the developer(s) want
just so that WQs stay max level related, and there not needing to be a tracking system to your progress while leveling beyond the zone(s) story
zealous basalt
I didn't really like how it worked, the bonus objetives in BfA
Like you are suddenly going from point A to B
tranquil steeple
... i just realized i made a pointless edit, undo-ing
tranquil steeple
hell, even only adding a breadcrumb quest telling you "go to X or Y area, there's something going on there" for THEN the bonus objective to pop up
would make the BfA version of bonus objectives actually... nice.
plain vigil
The reason I'm opting for worldquests rather than normal quests is worldquests already have skeletal presets while quests require being built from the ground up. Additionally worldquests can be quickly edited to fix any time issues in order to keep the old world relevant regardless of expansion and have their own self contained stories
zealous basalt
Yeah but remember that you want to have a good story to tell
Not just having objetives
zealous basalt
World quests are nice for completing flat objetives
But they suck for storytelling
tranquil steeple
the reason I'm against WQs is that all they do is tell you "do this thing we tell you to do here", which doesn't work unless you have 100 wqs per zone
ivory meadow
main quests makes you interact with the NPCs and generally get you acclimated with your new surroundings.
zealous basalt
That is why traditional quests exist and that's why dailies evolved to wqs
I feel that MQs prepare you for WQs
tranquil steeple
to add to the level pop-up bonus objective (with potential breadcrumb to make it more fluid), make completing it give bonus exp buff for an hour or something aswell, so it's rewarding beyond the initial completion only
plain vigil
If blizzard could come up with a way to add more story interaction to world quests it could maybe work out in the end
ivory meadow
on Q1 as well, it seems the solution is to make expansions happen independently is what it seems like it's saying
is that right or wrong?
plain vigil
Basically the story of the worldquests would be in tangent with the beginning of Xpac but because the story is localized to the zone and day to day life of the people that live there Rather than big picture stuff. So yes from a mechanical perspective, from a story perspective it frees up the issue of "omgdeathwingisinvading" 10 years after his death
tranquil steeple
isn't that effectively what the new leveling stuff for Shadowlands is doing, by letting you choose BC, WotLK, Cata, MoP or whatever you wanna and being either fully ready to head to the Shadowlands, and if not be close to the starting point of Shadowlands levelwise
so it all ends up being "if you wanna see what deathwing did to azeroth, do the Cata leveling cycle"
or "if you wanna see the rise and fall of the iron horde, go ham and enjoy yourself"
plain vigil
Right but this updates the world so the world is relevant again
ivory meadow
also, isn't that how BFA storytelling works when leveling? you go through each zone seeing what's the problem, and then go through another zone without needing to go through another to understand why it's happening while all of it is working to the bigger picture?
plain vigil
Yes but BFA's questlines are very much tied to the fourthwar timeline wise
zealous basalt
Tied timewise but not very into it
ivory meadow
^
plain vigil
So questline wise very much so tied to it, but if you strip away the Magni world quests and the regular quests all the wq's on Kul'Tiras are basically help the villagers.
The difference is worldquests aren't used for leveling in BFA
zealous basalt
You don't really get into the Fourth War unless you really want to
ivory meadow
yeah
zealous basalt
WQs arent used for leveling
tranquil steeple
just like they weren't used for leveling in Legion
plain vigil
The entire Stormsong zone is about Sylvanas's invasion
zealous basalt
Not really
ivory meadow
Azshara becomes the real threat
plain vigil
You walk up to a town and people are screaming because nthe horde is invading
plain vigil
True
zealous basalt
but that's not the main thing there
ivory meadow
it's a side thing though
zealous basalt
The main thing is discovering what is happening with Lord Stormsong
plain vigil
Which in turn is still tied to the timeline of events in BFA
tranquil steeple
which actually were ongoing before we got to Kul'Tiras
ivory meadow
the zone questlines though have little to no interaction with the Fourth War though; it's just you going around helping them out so you can get them on your side.
tranquil steeple
we as players get there and REALLY speed up the events that was already happening
which goes the same way with fighting back the Nightmare in Val'sharah back in Legion
plain vigil
Right but it pertains to the same issue of timeline. Which is where chromie comes in
zealous basalt
What issue witht he timeline now
ivory meadow
you may be there because of it breaking out, but you don't really see the Horde or the alliance in the zones a lot until you're past 120 and the War really picks up.
plain vigil
My concept with world quests could just be another option to level as well, no point in throwing away the systems made for BFA to allow you to level through other expansions
ivory meadow
how exactly would you get the story in the zones to matter through world questing?
the same way MQ already do.
zealous basalt
WQ's dont have a dialog box because they assume you are familiar with the story already
tranquil steeple
WQs haven't been used exclusively for leveling
specific, conditional ones have been tweaked to work while leveling
plain vigil
Well you focus on the individual stories of the characters you help. The goal of leveling from the get go is to level up, so maybe having intermission quests every 10 levels like the monk teleport where you meet up with increasingly important people of your faction's military? Or heck even receiving a letter with the cool voicebox they added in BFA . As for dialogue, most worldquests in BFA have a character who speaks to you and tells you the issue.
zealous basalt
its not the same
plain vigil
You could also have hidden quests, like random drop quests. Or rare worldquests
zealous basalt
Like how it happens already
ivory meadow
to the Story?
tranquil steeple
but the way they're designed they're simply meant to give rep, resources or items that you may need initially (and becomes more and more worthless as you grind dungeons for gear) that then simply becomes a daily activity tracker, instead of a nice experience you're going through
zealous basalt
Why not
ivory meadow
I mean yeah it already happens.
plain vigil
I mean for newer players an intro quest and outro quest for each zone comemorating you for helping the people and encouraging you to move on couldn't hurt
zealous basalt
If it is not broken don't try to fix it
The way how the game delievers the story with normal quests is just good
The issue is how the story is written
tranquil steeple
that's what I'd call "breadcrumb quests", essentially
if my 6am mind can be trustworthy to "work"
plain vigil
The problem is current quests are basically worldquests but you have to put more work into them. Notice how a lot of Worldquests in BFA are just repeating quests you've already completed.
tranquil steeple
because they're daily quests you don't pick up at an npc
they're designed to be repeatable
plain vigil
Sticking to worldquests only allows them to place the quest base and build off it without having to build new quests from the ground up
zealous basalt
But they -want- to build new quests from the ground
plain vigil
And then you over time add to that library new types of work quests
zealous basalt
You aren't agilizing that aspect of how wow works
plain vigil
So every playthrough is different
uncut lintel
ill be back at 5 AM
zealous basalt
a big mess narratively speaking
ivory meadow
for real.
tranquil steeple
ok, worldquests are daily quests.
aka repeatable quests you do for reputation
that are intended to be re-done OVER and OVER end on end... NOT be a means of telling a story and providing you with a leveling experience
zealous basalt
If you are looking for a randomizer every time you log in or create a character
just buy a boost
Because it will be tedious
I mean WQs are a chore nonetheless when you are maxed out
Also sorry to burst the bubble
But I don't think 2.0 will be made to replace the leveling system
tranquil steeple
current quests like the ones we have to go through for Loremaster achievements... tell a story, while providing you experience... so you can get to max level and do the endless worldquest grind for rep (until exalted, at which... endless grind for paragon)
plain vigil
Enter zone: gain quest: "welcome adventurer come speak to me in the tavern"
Go to tavern: "hey we need your help go to each area and help out the villagers"
Go to area and complete a few wq's: go to next areas: return to inn: quest to move on, or you can stay and continue worldquests. But it would build a randomization to it so if you do the same zone 5 times you've helping the same villagers but doing somewhat different tasks to reduce it feeling old.
tranquil steeple
... you're
ivory meadow
to me...
tranquil steeple
essentially just putting
plain vigil
No bubbles bursted here, again this is a concept, not really a guess
tranquil steeple
"world" infront of "quest"
zealous basalt
You don't really know
ivory meadow
that seems really lazy from a storytelling point of view
tranquil steeple
y'know, quest... the thing we already do... the thing we go to a place to grab and do
zealous basalt
That is how you kill wow, man
You kill WoW by getting rid of the only thing that makes it WoW
plain vigil
You can guide a player through a story without them having to kill the same 20 mobs every time you come back on an alt. This would add some variation to the quest Experiance.
zealous basalt
The dialogue of the questing box
The storytelling
Because you want to agilize it for level...that's now how it works
plain vigil
Nonono
tranquil steeple
so instead of 20 of X mob, it's 20 of Y mob... or 20 of Z mob
plain vigil
You can still maintain the same level of story, you'd just have to adjust the Worldquest systen
tranquil steeple
what's the difference?
you're still killing 20 mobs
the quest still needs you to do the same thing
plain vigil
No it's instead of killing 20 of x mob, kill this rare, or complete this puzzel, or go find my lost cat.
tranquil steeple
bonus objectives
zealous basalt
You would be ending the same
zealous basalt
Like
All you say
It's what we usually do
but instead you want to make it one at time
tranquil steeple
you're just making quests into "world"quests
it's the same thing it's just... "world"quests
plain vigil
Yes that's true Makore, but it's better than it being the same after the first time.
ivory meadow
the storytelling takes a lethal hit though
zealous basalt
That is a lie
tranquil steeple
like, yes, I want change. but the change you want, as far as I can tell, is going to make people wonder why the story of a zone is different each time they go through it
zealous basalt
Wayward
As far as I see
he cares little to nothing for the storytelling
Atm its just
"make this faster or different"
tranquil steeple
a story that for a zone should be linear... THEN sprinkle sidequests, objectives, or, I suppose... a "world"quest
but the zone's entire story SHOULD STAY THE SAME EVERY TIME
ivory meadow
not trying to mean to you Gan, but because the answer to Q1 falls apart instantly, so too do the other solutions.
zealous basalt
Sel
Basically
A lying system
Because it says
"Oh, we have a bunch of objetives, but you will just see these in this run...if you come back -maybe- you will get the rest"
Imo that's....adding RNG to questing
tranquil steeple
yeah that's another thought I had; "that just sounds like RNG"
ivory meadow
and adding even the smallest amount of story to it.
uncut lintel
😢 No more RNG plz
ivory meadow
you have no way of getting the full story because of the RNG
tranquil steeple
adding RNG to something that should be clear and simple WILL kill the purpose of it
plain vigil
I mean the system's not perfect here, never said it was, but if you could somehow combine the variety of world quests with the story of quests it would kill two birds with one stone, adding timelessness to the gameplay and adding a meaningful story to the player. In the end every quest is the same, you're helping someone with something. It's just a matter of how many words you out on the page.
tranquil steeple
like I thought going through DDDA's story and being locked out of something I had full control over was bad... imagine being locked out of something because of RNG
plain vigil
Keep in mind this is for 1-50 51-60would continue the normal leveling sydtem
tranquil steeple
no offense, but
ivory meadow
that's even worse.
tranquil steeple
I'd rather suffer through classic PvP realms than try the system I'm envisioning you're proposing
zealous basalt
That would
tranquil steeple
aka I'd rather die 1k+ in-game deaths and spend 2 years leveling
zealous basalt
Be the real nail to the coffer
And the worst part
It's just the revamp part
Not the whole expac plan
plain vigil
I guess another part of it is faction, because the 1-50 quest Experiance on alliance is way less linear than the quests like the story of Dun Morough is literally, help out the villagers, the story of northern barrens is investigate the destruction of a town and help with the aftermath. So it may just be my perspective is coming from the faction with the more simple questlines
ivory meadow
so you're leaving story details that could be essential to understand something in a story up to RNG?
tranquil steeple
adding variety should not kill off something else that's already working just fine
zealous basalt
The whole mention of RNG is enough to make it a failure
plain vigil
Nonono like for example the quests in Loch Modan don't really matter. You kill some bears and animals and invade the kobalds but there's no story that underlines the loch. Maybe that's the issue with cata? All the story was about repairing broken zones
tranquil steeple
I'm going extreme with this next short message, but...
uncut lintel
i wish i could post emojis
tranquil steeple
I'm starting to understand Des leaving..
plain vigil
I've done it multiple times through
uncut lintel
omg wayward i love u
plain vigil
Wow I didn't even realize Des left but now that you mention it
zealous basalt
And think on a new player
plain vigil
I am.
zealous basalt
You are not
tranquil steeple
Des would be SUPER vocal about what you're suggesting
there's be no way you wouldn't notice
zealous basalt
The moment you are leaving stuff out to rng you are assuming that they would know
plain vigil
I'm not being selfish here 😂 the best way for a new player to Experiance the whole of Azeroth is to bring the visuals of it up to par.
zealous basalt
IT
uncut lintel
x'D
ivory meadow
don't affect everything else to make it happen though
zealous basalt
You are messing
plain vigil
But then you still have to fix it so the quests aren't tied to a specific Xpac @tranquil steeple
zealous basalt
BECAUSE THEY WERE MADE FOR THE EXPAC ONLY
plain vigil
Else another world revamp would be required down the line
ivory meadow
holy shit my dude.
zealous basalt
Making the world relevant all the time
uncut lintel
?????
zealous basalt
MAKES A GAME EXTREMELY BORING WITH A LOT OF CONTENT
tranquil steeple
why do you think blizzard didn't do a cata 2.0
tranquil steeple
because it's THAT much of a pain in the ass to rework A FEW ZONES
why would they want to rework the entire planet at the same time
uncut lintel
im honestly laughing
tranquil steeple
hell ding ding think back to the hot shitfest adding more bagspace was
zealous basalt
You are suggesting
tranquil steeple
MORE BAGSPACE
zealous basalt
A world revamp
tranquil steeple
BROKE SHIT UNRELATED TO THE BAGS
tranquil steeple
not to mention on the visual update
zealous basalt
And change it for a world quest system
With no impact on the storyline for a new player
AND RNG BASED?
Dude
tranquil steeple
wow being the way it is... IS PART OF WHAT MAKES THE GAME ENJOYABLE, BECAUSE BASICALLY ANYBODY CAN GO AND PLAY IT
zealous basalt
You can work at Activision you know
ivory meadow
as Gordon Ramsay would say "What in the fuck..."
tranquil steeple
I'm... not only "starting" to understand Des leaving, I just about do at this point
plain vigil
Don't worry Makore my goal is to work at blizzard one day
zealous basalt
I am too
uncut lintel
LOL
tranquil steeple
like listen
tranquil steeple
i get wanting visual upgrades, a freshened up leveling experience
zealous basalt
Tell me it's a bait
tranquil steeple
but atleast make reasonable suggestions
zealous basalt
Please tell me we took it
tranquil steeple
atleast THINK
ivory meadow
but to completely sacrifice story to do so is just... wtf?
zealous basalt
The problem with the wow community
Is that they are so spoiled
They want things without thinking on the developer way of doing things
I can't still believe you came out with an rng questing system
Like
I'm in awe
ivory meadow
A: Ideally yes. You won't have issue with past expansions because the focus won't be on the world, just you leveling, and story focus on that zone, making a name for yourself. ```you need to go back and think about this a lot
plain vigil
Lmao
ivory meadow
i'm not kidding man.
ivory meadow
that Q1 right here is your whole gateway as to how the other three things will matter.
zealous basalt
You need to understand many things
tranquil steeple
I'm equally amazed and scared on how you made a suggestion to WoW be nightmare fuel.
plain vigil
This shit's not that deep, y'all are acting catatonic as if this concept will actually happen. Makore and Sela are out here just being straight up bullies. If you don't like my ideas fine but name calling? Grow up guys
zealous basalt
We are scared that you came up with such idea
And calling out
In this case is a shout for you to get help
ivory meadow
even if it is just an offshoot idea..
zealous basalt
It has to be a bad idea
ivory meadow
it needs a little more thought put into it.
plain vigil
Oh 200% wayward, but y'all are acting like I don't understand that
zealous basalt
You just suggested an Rng based quest system that fucks up storytelling
As a wow player we assume you care about storytelling
But when you want to get rid of it
It's like a big insult
I may be overreacting or underrreacting
ivory meadow
if you do understand though, why would you consider such an idea to even be one?
even if it's one made just a few minutes ago.
especially one that required a lot of time to type out.
zealous basalt
Evil
ivory meadow
to establish the goals you were trying to accomplish with it.
molten pine
Not sure if the wowhead team has posted about this any where but they've changed the soulbound items you used to turn in for rep from island expeditions into BoA rep tokens that can't be used past exalted
uncut lintel
o
zealous basalt
Pretty
tranquil steeple
i can admit that i may have been overreacting due to, well.. lack of sleep aka 6:30am right now, but at the same time the way (it seemed to me) you were going about it, a lot of what you said went against your own words, that you at a later point go back to claiming is the main point you're going for... and then go against it again, and it just kept going back and forth like that until 20-30 min ago, where the cup overflowed
plain vigil
It's called brainstorming my guy.
uncut lintel
o _ o
ivory meadow
your core argument didn't change though
zealous basalt
That's how they call it
ivory meadow
throughout the 20-30 mins we were talking you only talked about how it would affect leveling, nothing at all about storytelling.
which was the whole point of the 20-30 mins we were talking.
plain vigil
Yeah I haven't thought the storytelling bite through yet 🤷♂️
tranquil steeple
well, you do some thinking then. I'mma satisfy my brain with sleep before it short circuits from not getting the sleep it wants
and pray I don't wake up near nighttime tomorrow, and at best middle of the day
cyan prairie
I know that it's a bit late to say that when the argument is over, but @plain vigil all these dumb ideas you had here would take a lot of effort, forcing a big part of the dev team to waste their time on that instead of making raids, new zones or even working with the new expansion. Just because you were bored with current quests doesn't mean that the world revamp is needed since there are other ways to lvl up alts than just questing and all the new players should be able to experience these zones since they are made especially for them to see some story. About your complaining that people sit at one place - would you enjoy flying from Zuldazar to idk. Northrend just to clear some World Quests? WQ System is meant to be something quick to complete and placing them all over the world would be a complete mess. Most of your "ideas" or "discussions" here were useless and pointless, since your argumentation was wrong or it was just your personal, irrelevant opinion which wasn't a fact at all.
zealous basalt
Daamn
ivory meadow
damn talk about brutal honesty...
limber mural
scrolling through this chat has uh reminded me of two things
-why the hell I have gandem blocked cause I couldn't really remember up til now
-why blizzard should really never pay attention to what the community says
cyan prairie
sometimes people complain about things that shouldn't really be touched
but they don't realise it for most of the time
peak fern
as someone said here, the community is pretty spoiled
when there are no real, "burning" issues that require fixing people tend to look for stuff to complain about
that's what I think
plain vigil
Y'all are Fucking cruel, calling an idea dumb because you didn't like it is just Fucking rude. Like y'all are after me for no damn reason just because you don't like an IDEA. What the fuck is wrong with you? Grow up. Be adults, and if you're not an adult, I repeat, grow the fuck up. I'm not here to Fucking complain, none of my ideas are a complaint. I'm just looking for ideas to improve the game and make the world more open and relevant again. And most of all I'm here for fun. I don't know who raised y'all, but the internet isn't the place where you take your issues out on someone. Y'all are all bullies. Learn to have a respectful conversation/discussion for once. We had it for a second there when y'all gave me the time to type my brainstorming out, but holy fuck y'all have a hate boner for me or something. TL;Dr you don't call someone's idea dumb, it's highly disrespectful. You should give constructive criticism sure but just going on a slew of hate spewing doesn't help anyone in the long run. If your goal was to hurt me or my feelings congrats. You've done it. Have some Fucking compassion goddamn
zealous basalt
Trust me, we weren't cruel
The only thing you were called out was for being selfish as you seem to ruin the storytelling with making WQs so into leveling instead of just something as a side
strange falcon
oh boy,another hurt feelings rant 🍿
would "impractical" feel better to you than dumb?
zealous basalt
We didn't call him dumb though, I don't get where he is getting being cruel
cyan prairie
we're cruel because we have different opinion
and as we all know, having an opinion in 2019 is forbidden by law
plain vigil
Literally yes @strange falcon
No. Maul that's not it at all, maybe it's a language barrier? I know some people here English is their second language
Calling ideas dumb is hella rude though
ivory meadow
@plain vigil ok first let's get one thing straight. You typed out that outline for that idea for us to read so we could understand it more. We couldn't even get past the answer to Q1 before the whole idea fell apart. We called the idea dumb sure, but let's be fucking real here, is that the worse that's been said about an idea before? Also, we told you why exactly it was a really bad idea and then I proceeded to tell what you needed to do in order to get it going if you thought about it again.
zealous basalt
I mean, that's up for everyone
I have got called out for having dumb ideas for projects and I just make them better
cyan prairie
man, i've heard much worse things in my life and i didn't cry as much
plain vigil
Calling something a bad idea is different from calling something a dumb idea @ivory meadow
zealous basalt
Not really
A bad idea is something that you can enhance
When your idea gets called dumb
You need to check up what you messed uo
Which
We actually helped you in telling why it was bad
ivory meadow
it means there's something you didn't consider.
cyan prairie
bad idea has a point, but it's gonna cause some issues
dumb idea is just completely wrong
restive marten
So did we manage to discover all the vulpera tricks ? Those i ve seen are all on the gcd and barely do any dmg. It s like vulpera dont have any dps racial atm
dense plover
Racials have never been about dps
The places that racial will shine are utility
They already have a second hearthstone and 8 more bag slots
night swift
^
Well, the only real “dps” racials are orcs and trolls
And the LF draenei
And I guess the goblins
cyan prairie
Mag'har Orcs too
night swift
Yeah theres has that little bit of rng though
night swift
We’re talking more of active spells
plain vigil
The man just wants to find out if there's any new news on Vulpera bag of tricks and y'all go on a tangent about other races racials 😂
@restive marten there's no new information on Vulpera bag of tricks
My best guess is they're waiting for patch launch to add them as a secret to discover
uncut lintel
lol
ionic terrace
@restive marten We've found Flames of Fury and Sinister Shadows
FoF is from H Rag in Firelands and SS is from Cho'gall in BoT
Not found Holy Relic yet though!
Also doesn't appear to be a 100% drop
plain vigil
Oh nice I stand corrected!
night swift
They did say that “Its like they have no dps racial atm” and we just talked about how not all of them have to be dps racials
restive marten
all race have some sort of racial t hat increase their dps wether it s an active or a passive
dense plover
vulpera have a tanking racial
worn crown
Actually you guys didn't specify at all before if were talking about passive or active racials. And I see no point to only talk about one kind.
azure estuary
I hope the reveal how and when the “machine of death” got broken in Shadowlands
icy narwhal
I think I know but I don't want to spoil it for you
round zenith
well there’s only so many major events that have happened that could explain it
novel zodiac
@icy narwhal But is not actually confirmed, isn't it?
icy narwhal
Right.
novel zodiac
so, what's your theory?
icy narwhal
Well it has to do with the Emerald Nightmare, I am still working on it to be honest
plain vigil
I don't mean to be that guy but wouldn't this conversation be better suited for #beta-shadowlands
dense plover
it probably would
also you cant spoil something with a theory
it would be a spoiler if it was inside knowledge
a good guess makes you look smart - if youre right
ionic terrace
My theory is that mrpeach is the Jailor
dense plover
XD
more likely, im the guy who originally assigned the jailer and have been planning this expac since the start. I knew the jailer would eventually side with sylvanas and that the players would end up in the shadowlands, giving me the time to release nzoth from the dagger and DESTROY AZEROTH
plain vigil
@ionic terrace that's not a theory.... I know a guy who knows a guy's uncle who's grandmother's nephew works for blizzard, and I can 190% garuntee Peach is the jailor
spoiler alert the guy who works for blizzard is JJ Abrims you heard it right, world of Warcraft trilogy where JJ can't do the second movie so the guy in charge makes Sylvanas the queen of the alliance because the light
plain vigil
Personally I think they should do a Tv series like the witcher
dense plover
and warcraft has way too much to fit into movies
plain vigil
Ah yes same page!
dense plover
tbh, im not sure wow could get that support
even if everyone who plays wow watches, thats not enough to support that large of a budget
might be smart to go from a clone wars perspective
get people interested in thge story
THEN go full cgi
plain vigil
The power of China compels you
zealous basalt
Which is not bad
dense plover
china didnt watch the movie enough
and they are NOT the tv market
the tv market is the US and EU
plain vigil
Rip
They could always do a more mundane, easy to follow story like with the Witcher and build up to orcs and elves and such
dense plover
lol the witcher is in depth
but the witcher is MOSTLY real footage
with SOME CGI
warcraft would be cgi heavy
like the last season of GoT
thats why i suggest a clone wars style series to capture interest
plain vigil
Right but if you focus a specific part of Warcraft history, with either eleves or humans, you can get away with practical effects
dense plover
yeah but the warcraft story starts with the orcs
and its easier to secure funding if you have an audience who already watches your tv stuff
no way the mandalorian would have happened without both GoT AND clone wars
plain vigil
Warcaft starts with orcs yes but there's other events further back that you could begin with. Or even tell a new take leading up to Warcraft
icy narwhal
Blizzard probably does have the resources to create a really cool series/movie but things got/get in the way
The cinematics are so gripping they need to make an Amazon original or something.
plain vigil
uncut vault
Boo, they removed the ability for anyone who can use a weapon type to xmog a legendary in that category
so warriors cant xmog dragonwrath anymore
frigid crater
zealous basalt
F
sullen dawn
They'd be better of doing a castlevania style series - would be a lot cheaper to produce and could cater to core fans
Have it play alongside wow storyline - high fantasy and meant to compliment in game story
Have a new season launch at the start of each expansion and major patch
plain vigil
Animated Azeroth just isn't as worth it imo. Also locking gameplay story behind a tv schedule and streaming platform seems risky
zealous basalt
It's just extended universe but more visual
343i is doing it with Halo, comics, books, series, webcasts
tulip sun
It is like expanding the lore with books
plain vigil
Okay here me out, Disney buys out Blizzard, aquires wow, Warcraft Disney+ series
strange falcon
i dont want to be part of that timeline
plain vigil
Lmfao
plain vigil
Ah I see you're throwing it back to my secret source
sullen dawn
soo....Blizzney?
uncut lintel
whos blizzney
sullen dawn
Blizzard/Disney
zealous basalt
Actiblizzney
uncut lintel
eewww
half summit
Will Artifact Knowledge start week 1 of 8.3? I'm wondering if I should save my paragon turn-ins even tho I'm not heart level 70 yet
sullen dawn
should start week 1
half summit
Thx!
limber mural
Actiblizzney is the most cursed thing I've seen in a WHILE
I can only improve it by EA Actiblizzney
zealous basalt
EActiblizzney*
dark furnace
ApplEActiblizzney
zealous basalt
ApplEActiblizzneysoft-two Interactive
mighty wolf
Blizzney? Is that really or meme?
uncut lintel
meem
mighty wolf
novel zodiac
he really is
uncut lintel
i wanna marry him
uncut lintel
Dr.Facilier
languid yoke
ye
sullen dawn
well they're all based off of Baron Samedi
sullen dawn
Loa of Haitian voodoo
uncut lintel
o
sullen dawn
languid yoke
"Baron Samedi (English: Baron Saturday) also written Baron Samdi, Bawon Samedi, or Bawon Sanmdi" huh.
zealous basalt
Bob salami
plain vigil
The thing I love about wow is it's a slightly dark disney
limber mural
Oh fuck me Baron Saturday? I just understood a reference in a book I read once
Never knew he was called that
harsh wedge
"Samedi" is French for Saturday, litterally
strange falcon
also,SMITE's god artwork being useful once again
plain vigil
SMITE out here acting like a loa is a god 😔
strange falcon
i mean,at least they got his pantheon
plain vigil
But like, loa aren't really a pantheon
plain vigil
That's the thing Loa were more personalized Dieties, like they weren't all worshiped by the larger group it's semantical but still
zealous basalt
So is 8.3 Ptr like complete? Or more builds are a possibility?
strange falcon
i mean,the vulpera racial just got updated o.o
and the patch itself is coming in like 2 weeks soo
tulip sun
SMITE does a lot
Like..
Hercules, Medusa
Arachne. Stuff that is not technically a god
But still mythological or whatever
tropic trail
how do i get ptr?
zealous basalt
Hércules is funny
whole cedar
baron samedi is a voodoo deity that watches over death. he can prevent people from dying (if he refuses to dig a person's grave, they can't die) and he also has a twisted sense of humor
I actually researched on him a bit when I wrote the lore article on bwomsandi 🙂
plain vigil
We love some nice research 🙂
limber mural
It makes sense, I remember a character in a book I read brought back from the death who was the lord of the area, and his name was Baron Saturday
I never got the reference
plain vigil
Did it happen to be the phantom tolebooth?
limber mural
Nope
tropic trail
Do i need to buy a new subsription for ptr
zinc sandal
Nope
tropic trail
hmh if you make allied race DK, will it be eligible for heritage as long as you level it to 110? since they start at 55?
strange falcon
Dont think so
night swift
We dont know
dense plover
^
My guess is they might be eligible currently, but they’ll definitely be eligible with prepatch of shadowlands since AR start and DK start will both be at 10
uncut vault
I hope that they fix the NPC elf eyes before the patch goes live
some of em just dont work
dense plover
Theoretically we should get a RC this Tuesday
zealous basalt
Rc?
thick saddle
RC = Release Candidate
As for 8.3.5, not likely. Next patch after 8.3 will undoubtedly be 9.0 (pre-expansion patch)
uncut lintel
so we will get our last allied race in SL? i guess?
uncut vault
we likely wont be getting them for a long while after this
uncut lintel
D:
dense plover
8.3.5 is apparently a thing according to a source I have
It’s going on ptr very shortly after the patch but very short was in quotes
So my guess is the week after the raid launches
So that spoilers are spoiled
Also I don’t know why people think there won’t be a .5 - the fucking patch story needs to be wrapped up
We have to do something with the heart and the dagger
And none of that is currently in the patch
Also the grind nerfs that usually come with the .5 patch
thick saddle
Apparently you've never heard of hotfixes? Also, they have the ability to add content (or turn content on) without a specific patch. I suppose it's possible they might have an 8.3.5 patch between now and SL pre-patch, but it's not likely
dense plover
It’s extremely likely
You really think we won’t have any patches for more than 6 months? Unlikely
They’ve been doing .5 patches for years
Find an expac that DIDNT have one
vernal juniper
Does the serviant of nzoth buff
gives coins like the timeless ordos buff thing?
thick saddle
@dense plover ok boomer
dense plover
?
I’m in my 20s that doesn’t even make sense
You’re literally just saying you have no valid argument
So thanks
uncut lintel
thats an old meme, its 2020, come up with something new
dense plover
😂
sullen dawn
8.3.5 is likely coming with 2 new ARs, essence/grind nerfs, more heritage armour and some small story quests to close out the expansion
might get a new BG like 7.3.5 - something to do with undead maybe?
languid yoke
I forgot the new BG existed
dense plover
i dont expect more ARs
maybe with prepatch to hold us over
but probably not with 8.3.5
thats too close to the ARs coming in 8.3
they wont have time to test them
sullen dawn
depends when we get 8.3.5
sullen dawn
cycle is dffierent to legion so they might push 8.3.5 out a bit to fit more in between 8.3 and 9.0
like may
especially if 9.0 is launching later than august
dense plover
i doubt the prepatch is later than august
considering the latest the expac will drop is december
and even then theyll probably want to have the raid out before thankgiving
probably a while before
dont want the mythic race around christmas
or during thanksgiving
i fully expect prepatch sometime in july
with SL in august or october
sullen dawn
Late September, early october feels right to me
not hugely out of sync with other expansions, but an extra 6 weeks or so
and yeh prepatch maybe late july
/early aug
and sorry when I said 9.0 i meant the expansion, not the patch - my bad
dense plover
ah ok
yeah prepatch is no later than august
just because its 1-2 months
and raid cant come out later than mid october
sullen dawn
Agreed they'll want mythic race finished before xmas
Actually brings me to an interesting thought I havent seen discussed much yet. What lore/zones/stories would you guys like to see in 9.1/9.2/9.3?
dense plover
before thanksgiving even
its impossible to say
SL is like MoP
we know nothing
so we cant predict patches
we dont even know the current plot
languid yoke
we still have a better idea than with bfa to where the end of the xpac is heading with jailor/sylvanas
ionic terrace
oh
dense plover
its why we dont have patch the 7th
we definitely do not have a better idea
when we got the basic bfa story they mentioned azshara
and we knew ghuun was boss 1
it was fairly clear last boss was gonna be nzoth
assuming we didnt get an old god expac
which we didnt
ionic terrace
Thankfully AR DKs don't need to be tested
uncut vault
we also had 8.1's content basically told to us from an early alpha build
dense plover
^
uncut vault
the dazaralor raid map was in the game since the beginning
uncut vault
also yknow, MoP was a pretty handy template
dense plover
we at least need some dataminable content
ionic terrace
We do know that mrpeach is the jailor
dense plover
no no
ionic terrace
either that or 3 vulpera in a trench coat
dense plover
you dont remember
im the jailers boss
i set all of this up
everything you do plays into my plans
ionic terrace
😮
vernal juniper
oh found the "currency"
is not a currency
but you can't buy with it
bad
is only for upgrade gear recipes
dense plover
i dont know what youre talking about
theres only 2 currencies in 8.3
both are tied to the visions
vernal juniper
yeah I asked before about the serviant of n'zoth
dense plover
thats just a buff
vernal juniper
if it dropped a currency like the mop version of it
dense plover
it does nothing
it just denotes an enemy as a nzoth enemy
or do you mean the pvp buff?
vernal juniper
it drops coins
dense plover
one of which gives a title