@ember tundra so its like Diablo caves, where each time you enter it, its different with different mobs inside it?
#beta-ptr-spoilers
ember tundra
not really, it is different indeed but always with the same base, and you start with nothing. Each time you die you earn the possibility to enhance some of your skills and, by the way after dying and dying you can continue to climb the tower
tropic trail
what they said is, Sylvanas is not working for anyone, shes above that. And that Sylv and Jailor have a deal/bargain
ember tundra
at the beginning you can't go really high because you have not the skills for it [meaning you didn't die enough]
tropic trail
@tropic trail pretty sure i saw the slide where they stated that sylvanas has a boss and it is not this jailer.
ember tundra
sorry for my bad english, I think the wikipedia article will explain better
tropic trail
but i need to check it
@tropic trail they you saw something wrong or misunderstood it. I dont even know how you can misunderstand it, since Ion literally said "Sylvanas is serving noone, shes above that. shes beyond that"
his words
he said this during blizzcon?
yes, he said it during the presentation
ill try to find the slide i have in mind
@tropic trail so yeah, i was wrong about Sylvanas and Jailer having a master. I was not wrong they are working together for some yet unknown goal.
must have been a recap and not a slide that i saw.
Does this mean that, if Jailer is the main villain, we will be going on with Sylvanas stuff into the next expac beyong Shadowlands? I kinda am getting bored and frustrated with her...
ancient jasper
Nah there's a good chance she'll either get Illidan'd in to non existence or we kill her
tropic trail
If, at least, writers would shed some light (no pun intended) on what is actual goal of Sylvanas, maybe it would be more interesting to follow her story. Now it is just her doing stuff for reasons.
@ancient jasper i'd rather we or something else kills her, than doing Illidan, to be honest
tropic trail
But yeah, good chances are, that after Jailer is killed by us, they go like "Maw needs someone to keep all them souls in check. There must always be a Jailer". And then Sylvanas Volunteers.
ancient jasper
Yep I wouldn't be surprised
tropic trail
Or maybe we have Bolvar and Sylvanas fight for who volunteers better to be the jailer.
Just a little throwback to WC3 TFT cinematic between Arthas and Illidan 😄
@tropic trail Im expecting a similiar Story like we had in BfA with Azshara and Nzoth. At some point (9.1 or 9.2) Sylvanas becomes a Raid Boss, in this Raid she will ty to free the Jailer, we wont kill her off but weaken/defeat her, she at the end will still succeed and the Jailer is saving her/or she will just escape for the last patch.
Last patch we gonna fight the Jailer in a Raid, Sylvanas will somehow help us or even sacrifice herself to defeat the Jailer and we will know her real, final goal
So my bets are, Sylvanas will die but still somehow get her main goal (get rid of the Jailer or the maw) or, which is very likely
we will get a "There must always be a Jailer" and Sylvanas will be forced to take that role
But Im sure shadowlands is where her Story will end. Its just a question if she will end like Illidan, trappen/imprisoned somewhere so blizzard can bring her back in some later xpacs, or if they kill her off
What ever they do, I hope its gonna something that doesnt make the fanbase of her upset. Like if she dies, give that women at least her peace and dont let her be in the fucking maw
zealous basalt
Tilted
ancient jasper
After Teldrassil, Wrathgate, Gilneas and Southshore to name a few I don't think she deserves anything less than torture for the rest of eternity.
zealous basalt
When is something not going to make the fanbase upset
The fanbase gets upset by anything
tropic trail
I mean, if I spend 450$ on a fucking Sylv statue as her fan , then I will at least not be disapppointed with her ending. I want to be pleased, so I can finish up with that character in peace
And I couldnt care less about Teldrassil or something else, where just a bunch of noname NPCs died, who never were important to the Story.
At the end, this is not RL
ancient jasper
So let the Genocidal maniac have peace? Nah.
tropic trail
Ofc. remember Sylvanas back in vanilla - wotlk? Before they made her Character go in this direction
ofc she deserves peace, not her fault that blizzard decided that story direction for her
ancient jasper
...
dense plover
She was literally crafting a plague to kill people
tropic trail
to kill Arthas
dense plover
No...
tropic trail
yes?
dense plover
To kill undead AND living
tropic trail
the scourge and arthas in the first place. And to those who stand in their way
remember when the humans hunted down the forsaken
dense plover
Oh yeah that’s totally the actions of a good person
tropic trail
didnt said shes a good person
she was fitting the role of an anti hero back in vanilla - wotlk very well
more then in legion
also in the first place, she was a good person before Arthas made her a banshee
ancient jasper
Okay? That doesn't absolve her of what she's done since she became a Banshee. She's no longer under Arthas' or any Lich King's control. And yet she still commits atrocities.
tropic trail
Thats right. Thats why Im saying, if she has to die, then let her soul at least have her peace. Ppl who hate her gets what they want, cuz shes gone from the story and is dead, her fanbase can at least finish with her character arc in peace
ancient jasper
No mercy for the merciless.
ancient jasper
Sure, sure.
bold granite
Idk i really think everything she has done could be forgiven if she is successful. I meam i forgave illidan because of what his true end goal was
It is possible for a person to be good and make all the wrong choices
But that is jist opinion
tropic trail
also, back to the whisper: "The light has made a bargain with the enemy of all" . can we assume that this whispers refers to Light making a bargain with the Jailer?
because hes literally the only person right now I could think of being "the enemy of all"
calm plank
I think death may be "the enemy of all"
bold granite
But light making a bargain with death?
calm plank
and the bargain might be when the light made calia an undead
tropic trail
well the jailer is death
calm plank
ye
tropic trail
he even refers himself as death in the shadowlands gameplay trailer
calm plank
I don't remember that but I'll trust you
sudden oak
wasnt the one talking in the gameplay trailer bolvar?
tropic trail
no, it was that jailer dude
strange falcon
dude he says "a job at which i failed"
at the start
its bolvar
plus the voice is really close to the one from the big cg trailer
where he got owned by sylv
calm plank
yeah the failed job thing is bolvar
calm plank
but "death come" could still refer to the jailer
strange falcon
yeah
tropic trail
it refers to him, because the camera points at him when "death comes" is being said
thats why I thought the jailer was talking
lol
calm plank
fair
but yeah death would make sense as "the enemy of all"
I feel like most people aren't fond of being dead
I'm still trying to figure out who the "beware the eyes of green" line is talking about
calm plank
could be
strange falcon
it doesnt HAVE to be an already established character
calm plank
ye
isn't there a character that chooses in which part of the shadowlands you end up in?
strange falcon
the arbiter
though we have been shown concept art of her(think auriel from diablo)
calm plank
do we know what they look like?
calm plank
I'm thinking of another whisper that could be tied to her
strange falcon
so i wouldnt be able to tell
tropic trail
"The light has struck a bargain with enemy of all" i think there was this quote. Looking into Arbiter, it seems quite Light-sided being, angelic even. Could it be that Arbiter has alied with the void (which has a goal to consume all, eg. enemy of all) to defeat the death? Since Arbiter along with all Shadowlands is getting weaker and void, as far as i know, is afraid of death?
This, in turn, could lead to light vs void xpac. As such alliance should end eventually (when death is defeated), and both sides should turn on each other.
quartz lintel
tropic trail
anyone already posted this here ? https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ds05jt/buffed_interview_with_ion_hazzikostas_and_steve/
buffed: Is Patch 8.3 the last one of BfA?
Hazzikostas: Yes, it is the last, big patch for Battle for Azeroth. The one that follows it will be the Shadowlands prepatch.
does this mean no 8.3.5 ?
buffed: When can we expect Patch 8.3 to be released?
Hazzikostas: We haven't yet decided on that, as we first want to make sure that all of the content works as we intend. We also don't want to release the patch too early because there are enough players that have yet to find their way into the Eternal Palace. What I can say is that the update won't see release within the next couple weeks.
also this..
<-<
night swift
Idk if new ARs are happening
cloud iron
Reading the group interview on wowhead... I really hope Torghast isnt weekly locked in the sense I cant go back in. Yeah lock me out of loot, but the instance itself has that “fun” replayability with the effects and “items” you can get inside.
zealous basalt
I hope it is like withered training
night swift
They says it’ll be highly replayable so if its locked out thatd be dumb
deep pawn
if we can practice it, it may not last as long.... oh noooo!
night swift
Well ff14 has two “torghast” like dungeons in the game that are constantly played after being in the game for years so it’ll most likely still have people coming to it
normal niche
Its Bolvar, the dude who speaks in the trailer
if that's what you're talking about
Also, did they change Bolvar's voice?
What ever happened to the dude who voiced him originally?
I mean LK
zealous basalt
Probably got some throat problems and had to change?
normal niche
or maybe
it was that Michaels voice wasn't like
gothic/creepy enough.
I do admit, that I love the trailer voice.
''Death comes. and the End of everything... Is just the beginning.''
tropic trail
well new ingame
lorewise its his same voice
just...deader
his voice changes when he become the LK
member ICC
normal niche
yeah that throat cancer voice
should've quit smoking
oh wait
he got smoked
at the wrathgate
jk hahaha
tropic trail
hot take
arthas get redeemed in sl
we kill the jailor
arthas become the jailer to sylvanas
and everyone else
normal niche
smells like Garrosh
what is Sylvanas gonna break free and become the next kerrigan?
tropic trail
id love for bolvar and arthas to switch places
forest sphinx
I don't think we will be messing around with Arthas
normal niche
no pls
tropic trail
yus
normal niche
let arthas rest
tropic trail
bring back my gold haired love
tropic trail
i want kael'thas back
he did nothing wrong
also he has more then 2 lines every expac unlike
normal niche
when Kel'thuzad put sylvanas in her place
tropic trail
what was his name again
normal niche
everytime somethings wrong with the horde
green jesus will return
Actually I'm watching the Wrath of the Lich King Cinematic Trailer RN.
The comments are infested by people who hate the Shadowlands Cinematic.
lol
night swift
Green jesus seems to be back for now since saurfang dragged him into this mess
tropic trail
every time i think i'm out
they pull me back in
also
the you think you do but you don't guy mustve lost a bet
honestly that long hair doesnt suit him
sullen dawn
Sometimes as a head of a product you need to tell senior management to fuck off
Contrary to popular belief, product leads are rarely forced by senior management to make system changes. Their budget can be decreased sure, but as a product owner you need to be able to negotiate with them, and demonstrate how this will damage revenue long term
So I'd argue it's not as simple as blaming upper management. People like Ion etc are equally responsible for the business direction
Ultimately they're closer to the product, and probably retain ownership over most the decisions. It's up to them to balance the needs of senior management, staff and customers/users
tropic trail
Budgets are usually defined and set in stone without much room to stretch. And then you can fuck everyone off all you want, there simply will not be more money. Also, you cannot tell shareholders to fuck off, because if they do, they will also take a part of said budget. Same for sponsors (as we saw what happened when Mitsubishi pulled off their sponsorship from blizzard). So not really, POs are not in that spot. In small companies - sure, but not in coorporations, like Activision-Blizzard. Just too many cogwheels there for a PO to have a meaningful word.
flint fox
Anyone know if have the discount sale on service games in 15th anniversary?
forest sphinx
Glad to have it confirmed of when 8.3 will be released
novel zodiac
late december early january?
forest sphinx
Early 2020 according to the blue post
sullen dawn
Public businesses I guess you're right. I wouldn't say corporations in general though - as privately held companies can operate at a corporate/multinational level too
novel zodiac
that bluepost is kinda BS, they're stretching BfA all they can
so we don't get 1 year of 8.3 till shadowlands release in december 2020
strange falcon
Well thats actually a smart business decision
Unlike many many they have taken
If you stretch a few weeks from each content patch,you dont end up with 5+ months of drought
novel zodiac
we will get 9+months anyway
strange falcon
Well,the CE box says "on or before december 31st"
So considering they do it like legion and bfa and release it a month early
dense plover
the 12/31/XX thing has been consistent since WC3R
forest sphinx
Yeah, I don't see Shadowlands coming out before August
dense plover
theyve been doing that for all of their games
also, they arent delaying 8.3 more than they need to
it isnt ready
strange falcon
It coming out in august would be a shitshow
dense plover
lots of stuff is broken
corruption is still being iterated on
and the rewards are still unfinished
not to mention corruption resistance on the cloak isnt implemented yet
and quest balance for essences is totally fucked
zealous basalt
They haven't sent builds so far
dense plover
currently only dps and healers can get the essence that reduces corruption by 10 from the quests
tank cant
thats clearly not intended
might not be a shitshow
we dont have context for how finished the SL content is
we know they arent finished with class changes
but like - they clearly have already figured out a bunch
and major class changes can continue up until a few months before release
novel zodiac
i hope they're far from finished
strange falcon
Well,nobody wants another bfa where they had too little time to test things and had to spend the rest of the expac
novel zodiac
there's no changes at all
dense plover
like, bastion is way more finished than nazmir was when the nazmir demo came out
strange falcon
Fixing what should have been iterated in the beta
dense plover
no changes? they arent implemented yet
you cant say they arent making changes when they arent implemented
they werent even in the demo
theyre in the design stage
novel zodiac
i didn't know that
zealous basalt
That's not how people think peach and you know it
novel zodiac
i heard them talk about class identity and all that
zealous basalt
For them the moment they see a demo they think it's far advanced
strange falcon
We've only seen the hub area of bastion as far as i know,rather than the full zone
novel zodiac
but didn't know that there weren't any of that in the demo
strange falcon
Also yes
forest sphinx
The demo is just that: a demo.
dense plover
the demo was a demo of the zone
zealous basalt
Its to show there is something
strange falcon
"Oh so this is the thing you're showing me 1year early,must be the finished product"
dense plover
and its very far along
forest sphinx
The same goes for like Diablo IV. It's FAR from being done but there was a playable demo for those at the convention
novel zodiac
i just though that they were showing everything they said
at least a little bit
i don't know how the demos works
that's really good to know
dense plover
for context - at blizzcon 2017, they had part of nazmir finished (lots of still white textures) and 1 dungeon
bastion has no missing textures
its a finished zone
the majority of the storyline there is done
which may be the case for other zones
dense plover
it seems like they do plan to do a beta sooner rather than later
not 2019 sooner
but like, relatively
strange falcon
To prevent a systems failure like bfas azerite armor
Which was put in last minute
forest sphinx
Want my guess as to when we will see a beta?
dense plover
no difference between alpha and beta except who has access
i bet we get beta soon
probably right after last lfr wing goes live
strange falcon
Imo theyll put 8.3.5 on ptr first
forest sphinx
So this is my thought: if 8.3 launches in January and the raid opens up in February, we will start having invites for the alpha around the same time
ancient jasper
Ion already said 8.3 is the last Patch of the Expansion in an interview
So no 8.3.5
forest sphinx
Link?
ancient jasper
strange falcon
He also said 7.3 was the last path
forest sphinx
That makes no sense?
strange falcon
.5 patches are subpatches of the same 7.3
He meants we wont get an 8.4
Or a new raid after nyalotha
strange falcon
Exactly
forest sphinx
There's always been a .5 patch from what I can remember
And we have to have the invasions of the dead
ancient jasper
Literally says the patch that follows will be the prepatch in that sentence, but.. shrug
dense plover
yep, its part of how they prep characters and such
no it doesnt
thats a mistranslation then
ancient jasper
buffed: Is Patch 8.3 the last one of BfA?
Hazzikostas: Yes, it is the last, big patch for Battle for Azeroth. The one that follows it will be the Shadowlands prepatch.
Last,BIG patch
forest sphinx
I can see how it's confusing though
dense plover
its talking about the next big patch
do you really expect no prep for 9.0 and no sword stuff before SL?
strange falcon
7.3.5 was the silithus stuff right?
forest sphinx
I think so?
forest sphinx
Yes. Silithus was part of 7.3.5
dense plover
but it added quests and story
and eventually artifact draining, possibly in 8.0
it also added world scaling
and some other useful stuff
forest sphinx
And this is why I think in 8.3.5, we will see the legion like invasions happening
That's what it brought to the table
strange falcon
See? SMALL patch
dense plover
well, the invasion is prepatch
so 9.0
with 9.0.1 being release of expac
8.3.5 will likely have other stuff
strange falcon
@ancient jasper
strange falcon
Back to my tangent,assuming 8.3 releases when anniversary ends(7th jan), and the usual 2weeks to get to grips with content,we get raid on 21st of Jan.
Counting 3months as the usual "time raids should last on average", we can stretch that to 5months for last expac raid since it will prob have a special mount from doing heroic like every other last raid
We are in june,with 8.3.5 drop
zealous basalt
no
strange falcon
🤔
zealous basalt
idk i mean 😛
strange falcon
Assuming we endure 3 months of whatever 8.3.5 has for us
Prepatch drops mid october
And release mid november
Shortest content drought ever
ancient forge
PTR or WC3R Beta build tonight
ancient jasper
PTR build tomorrow, I believe, because they're doing a character wipe tomorrow.
Unless they're updating tonight to do the wipe tomorrow? shrug
tropic trail
I’m just glad I have more then enough time to switch mains now lol
forest sphinx
Shouldn't or couldn't it be both? We were supposed to have people getting access to the WC3R beta for buying the virtual ticket
restive pasture
People have, I got access first day of blizzcon
dense plover
i mean, wc3r beta ticket thing is available I think
storm marsh
I wonder if they'll add DKs/features for AR DKs in next build(s)
calm plank
I expect it might take longer but who knows
ancient jasper
I imagine we'll definitely be testing AR DK's for possible glitches during this PTR cycle
zinc sandal
dense plover
so yeah - it does confirm allied races are a possibility
but it definitely doesnt position the kyrian or those owls as a confirmed allied race
kinda the opposite tbh
zinc sandal
It kinda says that if we cry hard enough for them, they just might give them to us
looks at Vulpera
dense plover
vulpera were planned from the start man
when they got the sleeping animation, it was guaranteed
calm plank
I still want my playable snakes <.<
frigid crater
[sethrak]
haughty houndBOT
zinc sandal
Many people think of the Shadowlands as the end of life, but it's really more of a cosmic force. A place like the Firelands has several creatures that are made of Fire, born of Fire magic; the Shadowlands is the realm of Death, and so there are creatures born of that power as well.
I'm glad they said this, because I'm actually toying with this concept in roleplay.
lean yew
sudden oak
the best parts of the cinematic are her unholy screams when she throws that chunk of ice at bolvar and when she breaks the helm
tropic trail
What level do you think we'll be able to solo old raids at? I think all old raids will be scaled to level 40 or something
deep pawn
they've confirmed elsewhere that outside of Chromie time everything will flow the same as it does now
So expect Molten core to be a level 25 raid
tropic trail
Huh... that's almost too weird xD
lol
Reminds me of Dragon Nest, where the first nest was level 24
Nests were their raids
LFR MC
#addLFRforoldraids(no don't)
make MC a mega dungeon
Tied to Blackrock Depths
Man, we need a Blackrock Depths 2.0
12 hours dungeon with a raid entrance inside of it
Or maybe... bring Zul'Farrak back! With more bosses! With increased health and damage!
Just make it Classic ZF on steroids
storm marsh
So we should keep praising how cool covenant races look and would be cool to play as if we want to see them as ARs
strange falcon
well,expac is still a year+ away
so if we start praising them as AR now
and keep going,they can put that into their design now
instead of having to change them last minute after launch
like kultirans
@storm marsh
a lot of people is really liking the owlbois from bastion,even popular youtubers like taliesin
but technically the zone's covenants is BLUMANS
so we have to make the interest known now
austere gazelle
strange falcon
but the ones we'd get
would be wingless
since only the spirit healers have wings
storm marsh
So far I think Venthyr uses nelf or belf skeleton and night fae uses draenei female 100%
strange falcon
the big owls use tauren,and the small owls use vulpera,the kyrians use human animations
storm marsh
Thats nice
coarse gazelle
But kyrians are not so muscular as humans
strange falcon
but they're not thin humans from kultirans either
so they're using human model,without the textures for muscles
ez
doesnt discount they're literally a recolor
on the level of void elves
instead of an actually imaginative and unique race thats in the same zone
languid yoke
don't the kyrians use titan animations
like the watchers in uldaman
also buff bat men
smoky mural
peak fern
storm marsh
Venthyr posture reminded me of nightborne
But i think it's new since their head is up like they're proud
Watching over something
storm marsh
just a tip guys: if there's going to be a PTR build today, make sure you check how much gold will you get if you don't spend titan residuum on live servers
if it's worth not spending it i mean
dark furnace
👀
limber mural
Oh nooooooo
dark furnace
Mankriks wife is the Jailor
mighty wolf
dense plover
Hey, so character wipe is today which means there should be a new build
Can someone ping me when it comes out?
tropic trail
dense plover
@tropic trail what does that have to do with ptr spoilers?
storm marsh
I can ping you
Also it seems like there is an alpha build already
I dont know if ppl at blizzcon demo could leave bastion
I dk where is this from
ionic terrace
They weren't supposed to but DID mole machine let them
storm marsh
Yes?
tropic trail
but it says it 4 times so one is left Crystalsong Forest and the other one joined Crystalsong Forest
dense plover
Yeah people were able to break out of the zone
It being the border of crystal to be seen or maybe even be seen across zones isn’t impossible
tropic trail
im guessing we will be able to see it from a big part of Northrend.. well hopefully..
Icecrown is probably getting a make over like Silithus
i'm not just talking a skybox change but the entire zone, we'll see for the rest of the continent
forest sphinx
Good morning everyone
frigid crater
12 am 
tropic trail
I would assume it would be at daily reset lol
ionic terrace
They said not before 10am pacific
forest sphinx
Sorry, I was up late sick and still feel like shit
dense plover
There was no evidence of ice crown changes in the demo
Also why would they spend resources on Northrend when we aren’t going to be there?
novel zodiac
not even the sky changed?
tropic trail
i mean we go there in the pre patch to stop the scourge
a simple skybox change to fit the events is probably gonna happen
it is just a demo tho and we have atleast a year until release so
dense plover
Yes I agree there will be a skybox change
I’m saying they won’t be updating the physical zone
At least not massively
Npcs will probably be moved and there will probably be new structures but like, don’t expect the entire zone to be overhauled
Probably just a chunk
Skybox might be visible across all of Northrend
But outside of icecrown that’s the only change I expect there
Think like - pre warfront but post bfa darkshore
That’s the level of changes I expect
strange falcon
i reaaaaaaaaaaaalllly dont believe an august release date,it would come out rushed and shitty,i'm going by the assumption that the last 3 expacs came out 1month before the "release on or before xx" date on the CE edition box
which means a fall 2020 release,or more accurately a mid november release
after bcon
@pulsar iris
dense plover
Eh I doubt that tbh
So my logic here is we have evidence that they pulled out on a new zone for 8.3 all the way back in 8.1
Which means they probably started to put resources to shadowlands all the way back then
Bastion is far more finished than nazmir as well
So there’s evidence they are further ahead with SL than they were with bfa at the same point after Blizzcon
strange falcon
I mean,it being more along than we thought doesnt disprove the fall 2020 release.
Because even if the content is "ready" it doesnt mean it is polished,
Azerite armor was a shitshow because it was added last minute in the beta
And had to be polished during patches
And personally i dont mind waiting a few months to get an enjoyable experience
PLUS "FIRST impressions" is all people base their thoughts on the expac
So making a good first impression is crucial for the reputation of the expac
tropic trail
the thing that scares is they said they start planning expacs 2 expacs before, which means they already planning stuff post shadowlands
and noone knows what it is
insert lotr alright then keep your secrets meme
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Sargeras-possessed Illidan
strange falcon
They plan the lore
They said they could have done legion straight after MoP,but they didnt want to make voljin last so little
So they made WoD
Then they spent bfa setting up sylvanas for shadowlands
@tropic trail
dense plover
Azerite armor was a shitshow because they designed it on paper without the game in mind and assumed that the part of legion that worked was the AP grind
The failures of bfa are going to be a massive boon for SL
Because now they know what didn’t work from legion
tropic trail
and bfa
dense plover
Read what I wrote
strange falcon
It still will be as much of a shitshow if the features are UNTESTED
tropic trail
I hope we get to craft legendary weapons in Torghast. But it's unlikely
dense plover
I literally said bfa failures
strange falcon
@tropic trail they said only legendary armor so far
dense plover
Yes which is why I fully expect the beta to have all of the core features already implemented in some form
tropic trail
saronite armor eyyyy
tropic trail
Yeah but they did also say we'll learn of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination's origins
dense plover
Icecrown was reinforced with saronite by arthas
strange falcon
we get anima from torghast apparently,along with some spoopy alloys
tropic trail
Frostmourne is a weapon
strange falcon
from the maw
dense plover
The legendary armor will be forged by the same guy
tropic trail
Hardened Anima nodes?
dense plover
The damnation armor - the legendary system - is literally about that stuff
It’s the forge of the damned
Where frostmourne and the helm were made
tropic trail
weren't they made by the legion tho
dense plover
No
It’s a soft retcon
Legion used them
They were crafted by the person in the forge of the damned
dense plover
Also, saronite wasn’t an available resource when the legion made them
They’ve never been made of saronite
tropic trail
ffs
i wasn't talking about it being made of saronite
i was talking about saronite armor for the player
dense plover
Saronite is the blood of yogg - it wasn’t available until the tree in crystal song was planted
That’s the armor of the damned
tropic trail
DKs always wear saronite armor in the lore
dense plover
What saronite armor for the player?
Yes that’s because it’s available at that point
It’s very strong
And they apparently aren’t as susceptible to the whispers
tropic trail
Because ded
dense plover
Yes
tropic trail
lovecraftian beings don't die
hahaha
That's why Arthas used skeletons to mine it!
dense plover
Yes
It is
Because even DKs can’t handle mining it
That’s too much
We see some living beings in that dungeon mining and they’re all insane
tropic trail
Even skeletons started muttering Yogg in game
tranquil steeple
Saronite is the Sargeras of metal 
dense plover
But I’m still a bit confused why it was mentioned in the first place
I don’t understand why it was brought up in regards to SL
tropic trail
Jaina thought we'll be making saronite armor in Shadowlands
dense plover
We won’t
dense plover
^it isn’t in the shadowlands
tropic trail
you do realize the LK is a main character right
dense plover
And?
tropic trail
he has an entire continent of that stuff
And wearing saronite drives you cookie kills crazy
dense plover
^
tropic trail
we're taking on an old god
candid ginkgo
But the LK has nothing to do with Torghast. Or the forgesmiths that are making our armor.
dense plover
Living beings can’t wear saronite without the specific way it is treated
^^^
This
candid ginkgo
So why does it matter if the LK is a main character.
dense plover
So much this
candid ginkgo
We're crafting our Legendary armor from Shadowlandian material we collect from Torghast. Nothing Azerothian is involved.
tropic trail
vulpera skin armor
dense plover
The helm of domination was made by the forgemaster in the shadowlands BEFORE saronite existed
The world tree in crystal song led to the creation of saronite as an ore
Before that there weren’t veins of saronite
But supposedly, frostmourne and the spite of ice crown were there
tropic trail
Hey Peach? Shadowmourne was the first Frostmourne attempt, right?
dense plover
Honestly don’t know
tropic trail
we crafted shadowmourne tho
dense plover
I thought it was an attempt to forge a blade strong enough to break frostmourne
But it failed
We reforged shadowmourne
candid ginkgo
I don't think that's right.
tropic trail
I feel like that's the case
But retcons, sadly
the LK always had frostmourne tho
The Arthas LK
candid ginkgo
The back story for the Shadowmourne is literally a rumored weapon to best Frostmourne that Darion came up with.
dense plover
I looked it up
Shadowmourne is something they decided to make in wrath
To defeat arthas
tropic trail
Oh
dense plover
And beat frostmourne
tropic trail
thats what i said
pulsar iris
saronite is a material from wotlk. they probably wont reuse the same material
dense plover
So it’s an attempt to replicate the power of frostmourne
But they don’t quite succeed because frostmourne has no known crafter in wrath lore
Now we know it’s made by the forgemaster in the SL
Maybe he used to be living
tropic trail
It would have been so much better to be Ner'zhul's old weapon that he ditched for Frostmourne and we build it from blueprints
dense plover
Maybe that’s where he has always been
It can’t be
Frostmourne came before nerzhul was lich King
dense plover
It was there in the ice cursed for who knows how long
Same with the pillar topped by the frozen throne
tropic trail
icecrown spire you mean
i think that was the name
Oh yeah! Icecrown was just a pillar/spire back in Warcraft 3
dense plover
My guess is that the forgemaster crafted frostmourne for the jailer but deemed it too powerful and decided to throw it to azeroth or send it there via a powerful ally of some kind
tropic trail
And Arthas chilled while his army built a citadel
dense plover
The helm, my guess is that the legion commissioned that
They probably had the forgemaster build it so they could command the power of the scourge outside the shadowlands
tropic trail
What's your main's covenant of choice, Peach?
dense plover
Or maybe it was meant to act as some kind or anchor to prevent the jailer from being able to break free of the SL should he ever escape torghast
tropic trail
Venthyr, I imagine
dense plover
And the legion took it and used it for something unintended
candid ginkgo
Until we learn more.. The armor and weapon were crafted around the same time that Ner'zhul was turned into the Lich King through Kil'jaeden's torturing in the Nether. They were both incased in the Frozen Throne until Ner'zhul launched it from the spire to where it landed and was found.
tropic trail
Anything for ptr yet
candid ginkgo
Again. Until we learn more, because this is all old information.
dense plover
Tbh not sure, probably the Venthyr, because it’s the only place my undead monk fits since I have a DK a Druid and a pally and I want a character for each
dense plover
No
tropic trail
disgusting
dense plover
He was put into the helm
pulsar iris
my DH will go for the vampires zone
dense plover
Undead monk is so good - I can break out of fears and keep tanking
tropic trail
My main will go for Night Fae
candid ginkgo
They technically shackled Ner'zhul to all of it. The armor, the helm, and the sword.
tropic trail
Human monk
dense plover
Not the sword
candid ginkgo
Which is why Ner'zhul could speak to Arthas through the sword.
candid ginkgo
Not until what we learn in SL says otherwise.
tropic trail
Andrew is right
none of the covenants are manly, but i'm going Venthyr cause fuck it why not
dense plover
It’s probably still true
pulsar iris
arthas gets frostmourne before he becomes lich king
dense plover
But the sword is probably there before nerzhul same with the armor
tropic trail
Necrolords are manly
pulsar iris
they were separated
dense plover
I’m going to do all 4 covenants
tropic trail
time to play the manliest character
orc warlock
I’m going Kyrian
PffffHAHAAHAHAH. Gul'Daniel?
I mean the other ones sound cool but they don’t have wings
I might try the others lmfao
vulpera can't be druids
and that triggers me
I'll honestly choose whichever has a scarf back attachment
pulsar iris
i think it's alright they not being druids
tropic trail
That’s Kyrian
The black wings
No. Scarf
Legitimate scarf
Wait there’s an actual scarf df
humans need more beards
not masculine enough
Someone show me pics plz
strange falcon
you wanted tiny druid forms? :p
tropic trail
No scarves have been confirmed
Just my wishlist
LMFAO
I was like I was at blizcon I didn’t see a damn scarf
gnome rogue
tyrion lannister
I’m sad these new rep changes won’t be implemented till next year like wtf
-.-
pulsar iris
rep changes?
pulsar iris
oh essences
tropic trail
venthyr get trenchcoats
Honestly I’m excited for the new endless dng “ if you make it to the end we will probably ban you”
LMFAO
ponchos arent gothic
pulsar iris
i care more about ARs rep. sadly they didnt talk about it
tropic trail
But they match the theme of Van Helsing
pulsar iris
yeah i'm excited to try the tower
tropic trail
that old guy
pft
World first Tower here we go
👀
Who’s gonna try and get banned first
the asian humans are going to invite so many weaboos, you heard it here first
pulsar iris
WORLD'S FIRST BAN RACE
pulsar iris
i want all customizations
tropic trail
Super excited for seeing half of Argent Dawn run around on human females just cause asians look good
I know we won’t get tattoos I’m fine with that because of DH but god damn fix OUR HAIR
strange falcon
imagine playing human in a fantasy game 
tropic trail
yikes.
tropic trail
Every time I race changed to human I fix it the next day
pulsar iris
the eye tattoos
pulsar iris
eh my monks are dwarf and troll
pulsar iris
brewmaster monk dwarf
pulsar iris
because what the fuck is this fantasy where dwarves are not the greatest brewmasters ever
tropic trail
dwarves are alpha males
Pandaren!
typical weaboo
Dwarf be like "Beer!"
Pandaren be like "Alementals!"
outlaw rogue is not pirate themed anymore
rip
the best roleplay characters
NINJA WITH A GUN
no
no ninjas
stop
Corsairs?
i can't wait for all the bruce lee characters in 9.0
Best RP in WoW is worgen rogues. Who else can be a werewolf ninja with a gun who dresses as Robin Hood?
no ninjas
stop it
Jaina ninja looted that Hanzo Sword from BWL that I wanted
for a second i thought you said BDO, i was getting ready to internet slap you
I main a mystic in BDO, not a kunoichi like you
Kunoichi = female ninja
YOU NINJA LOOTER
i do have to say, eastern mmos make me want to throw myself in front of a train
but yes
i ninja looted
BDO combat is pretty fun. Too bad the game is designed for grinding mobs, so they die in one hit
it does look kind of nice but the asian faces make it hard to make an attractive character
atleast for me
Oof
strange falcon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329807329245659147/641700519408042014/IMG_20191106_200603.jpg
daring dune
strange falcon
fun fact: the lore dev supervisor said the owls are a native species to the shadowlands
while the kyrians are just souls who have trained so hard
they gained wings
dense plover
Are servers still up?
ionic terrace
Yes
dense plover
Boo
strange falcon
partypooper peach :p
dense plover
Yay
lime venture
New build today?
dark furnace
Could it be the DK stuff?
dense plover
It’s very possible
They’ve been slowly adding stuff every build
Now would be a good time to test it
I’m expecting them to start at level 58 like current DKs as a sort of temporary measure since DKs don’t currently function before that
Curious if they’ll be able to get heritage armor before SL goes live or if AR DKs will have that disabled until SL
forest sphinx
Ping me once the servers are up again
unborn glacier
Pretty sure ar DKs aren't coming til pre patch.
harsh wedge
They are available in 8.3 tho
strange falcon
@unborn glacier you can play AR dks in 8.3 if you preordered
pulsar iris
they said it was a preorder thing?
i remember they saying it was a 8.3 thing, but not preorder
lone marten
Its a preorder thing
limber mural
Pretty sure this is something y'all would know - I forgot when they said virtual ticket friends would get WC3 beta
When was that?
calm plank
I'd say this was during the opening ceremony
azure estuary
Have they officially announced how destroying the helm of domination shattered the veil to the shadowlands?
tropic trail
i juwt wanna know how we are gonna close it tbh
zealous basalt
I think that answer is easier than pulling out the sword of Azeroth (if that's even a possibility)
azure estuary
If they haven’t, my theory is that it’s been said the veil is very thin at ICC. To me it would make sense that the energy released from such a powerful artifact of death magic would rip a hole in that thin area of the veil.
tropic trail
i think it would do more harm if it was gone tbh
the line "there must always be a lich king" is still there tho
azure estuary
I think Sargeras’ sword will remain, but the wound itself will be healed. Just like the well of eternity.
tropic trail
i mean i dont think they can magically find a new crown
soo im curious to know what they're gonna do
azure estuary
There must always be a Lich king to hold the scourge back. But if there isn’t one. Then the scourge might have to finally be eradicated, or something we find in the Shadowlands to substitute
tropic trail
maybe something in the tower
nah they wouldnt make it that complicated rip
I know I am damn ready to see Saurfang in the maw.
they could do so much that it will be a shame if they just give us something small with him.
zealous basalt
There is a reason
Why the "legendary maker" thing in the tower is called
Forge of Domination
azure estuary
We tape that thing back together!
warm wren
They did say the opening event during pre-drop was going to be the scourge running amok. And it's possible the end game is forging a new Helm and returning Bolvar to being the Lich King in more than just title
tropic trail
i mean its by random to IF we were to make it we would need to find that floor for the quest
dark furnace
"To show you the power of Flex Tape, I sawed this crown in half!"
tropic trail
Bolvar is not worthy of the crown
azure estuary
Idk I have a feeling if there is a new Lich king, it won’t be Bolvar.
warm wren
Who else is then?
tropic trail
I feel like he could of went all out tbh. I was not thrilled to see him go down so easily
"Heres your second chance, guy" like what
azure estuary
He went down so easily because Sylvanas is being empowered by the jailer. Who is way more powerful than the Lich King.
tropic trail
he could of put more of a fight
warm wren
He should have been able to destrot Sylvanas easily, but it's possible the Jailer was limiting him as well.
Not just empowering her, but also limiting the extent of his and Nerzhul's power
azure estuary
That is possible too
tropic trail
I mean maybe
they finally give him screen time just to let him get his ass kicked rip
azure estuary
Sounds like he will play a sizable roll in the expansion
tropic trail
im just talking about the trailer
warm wren
But as it stands, idk who else would make a suitable Lich King. Bolvar was brought back to life by Alexstrasza's flames to bear that burden, to be the jailer of the damned.
tropic trail
but hopefully there will be some story with him and his daughter now
warm wren
Bolvar had a daughter?
tropic trail
what
azure estuary
We shall see. Being the Lich King pretty much removed him, from the story. Maybe they want him back in it
tropic trail
yeah
azure estuary
Yes.
dark furnace
Taelia, who we meet in Kul Tiras
warm wren
Huh, must have missed that
dark furnace
Taelia Fordragon
tropic trail
yeah Flyns gf
warm wren
Then again, I haven't done much with alliance
My worgen still isn't through his first zone, probably 112 at best
tropic trail
I mean ppl want her to be with The Boy King but
warm wren
Anduin will find someone to love. He is still young, after all
warm wren
He was what, 19 in legion?
dark furnace
Idk his name
tropic trail
FLYNN and SHAW
dark furnace
He's in the rogue order hall
tropic trail
x'D
zealous basalt
He is i think 21 by SL
tropic trail
Ppl want Shaw and that hot be
dark furnace
Valeera
tropic trail
Yea
warm wren
SL? Sorry, I'm brain farting
dark furnace
Shadowlands
tropic trail
Anduin doesnt need a lover he needs to learn to be king first
before he can tap anything
warm wren
I mean, he's no Varian, but he's doing his best
warm wren
He had hots for that one dwarf girl in The Shattering though
tropic trail
maybe if there wasnt a war every 5 months
warm wren
Aerin I think her name was
dark furnace
And Draenei girls in another book
tropic trail
WHAT
dark furnace
Or the same
dark furnace
I havent read any
tropic trail
what about a thicc NE
calm plank
elves are boring
warm wren
I just know he was devastated when Aerin was crushed by the earthquakes Deathwing had caused
zealous basalt
Ah ye
calm plank
I have no idea who aerin is
zealous basalt
Manduin likes draenei
warm wren
And tbf, Tyrande has probably scared him away from Nelves
dark furnace
Aren't the Nelves like a thousand years older than him?
warm wren
Infi, she was a dwarf assigned to help train him when he visited Ironforge prior to Cata
calm plank
I think tyrande has scared away everyone rn
tropic trail
tbh humans are gross
calm plank
oof
warm wren
The mentor student relationship became a friendship
zealous basalt
Yet all Windrunners got into humans
tropic trail
But not as bad as dwarfs
dark furnace
And look how all the Windrunners turned out
calm plank
I wouldn't say the windrunners are a good example to follow
dark furnace
66% chance of madness for dating a human
zealous basalt
What if they are all mad
calm plank
and there's no way alleria and turalyon are gonna have a happy ending
dark furnace
Vereesa is hiding it
warm wren
Before she was crushed in an after shock while helping people escape a collapsed brewery in one of the towns near Ironforge. As for elves, most of them seem to be good
tropic trail
just because its sad doesnt mean its not a happy ending
zealous basalt
I think in a milenia both know whats good and whats bad
tropic trail
He knew once she learned the void they were taking chances im just saying
warm wren
Alleria and Turalyon haven't split, have they? And they'll stick together for the benefit of their son
tropic trail
no
but in the 8.3 it showed him dying
and their son was sucked into some black shit but its all not real
dark furnace
Alleria said their son was the anchor between her and the void turning her mad
warm wren
Actual him or n'zoth vision him?
tropic trail
nzoth
dark furnace
N'zoth
tropic trail
so its not real
but ti could be
it*
there is not telling when she could snap tbh
no*
warm wren
I was gonna say, even with X'era destroyed, he's still a competent paladin
tropic trail
but lets say her husband and son die
or maybe she watches her husband die
or maybe she has to harness more power to kill her sister
i mean there are so many options for her to go ape shit
warm wren
Sylvanas will get waffle stomped by the player as a boss in Torghast or something I bet
zealous basalt
I think there is a big line of people
tropic trail
like no more escaping
warm wren
I wanna get revenge for both Teldrassil and Saurfang's death
tropic trail
like how many times can she escape
zealous basalt
As much as they can do it
tropic trail
how are the horde even on her side i mean i know a good chunk arent but the rest
like what is this bs if this hoe doesnt go into the maw after all the shit she caused.
zealous basalt
They just like the character
tropic trail
I will be upset LMFAO
her character is cool but its getting kinda sad that I just know shes up to something theres no surprise
like after shadowlands if shes still alive im gonna be like "k what you doing now"
zealous basalt
Probs this might be her last xpac active
tropic trail
i hope so
i want other characters to get more screen time im over her lol
maybe we lock her in the maw
dense plover
She is key art
tropic trail
she needs a time out
dense plover
So this is probably her last hurrah
tropic trail
that way she isnt dead shes just on a break tbh
cyan prairie
Jaina also appeared on a key art some time ago, and unfortunately she's still alive...
cyan prairie
Varian died
tropic trail
eventually
cyan prairie
True heroes never die - that's why we see Vol'jin appear in BfA, and not Varian
tropic trail
Varian doesnt want to come back
calm plank
honestly I hope we'll get a meeting between varian and anduin during shadowlands
tropic trail
and you dont know if we will see him in shadowlands
cyan prairie
he'd get oneshotted by Sylvanas anyway
calm plank
can't get killed if you're already dead
vivid harness
you go to mega shadowlands
cyan prairie
tbh i'd like the idea of meeting old characters after killing the Jailer
like Broxigar for example
calm plank
yeah that could be nice actually
cyan prairie
Or Mankrik's wife
zealous basalt
I think it's semi confirmed that we gon see her
calm plank
and that way it gives some time to actually explore the new lands with new characters
vivid harness
mankrik's wife wouldn't be in the maw
cyan prairie
She'd be in Bastion
vivid harness
true
vivid harness
no one tell him
calm plank
I hope so
calm plank
I'm wondering