beta-ptr-spoilers

[dense plover]

Yeah dude gets so much wrong

I hate everything he says and does

Because it makes my life with this channel so much harder

Like he just says wrong things

And he won’t even admit he’s wrong

He just makes shit up until he’s right

And then ignores all the other shit he got wrong

If you guess 500 different possibilities, eventually 1 will be somewhat correct

I don’t think anyone predicted Sylvanas breaking the lich kings crown

[tropic trail]

except reddit

or 4chan

i think

[normal niche]

I can't wait to see his thoughts, on Shadowlands pretty much

disproving his theories.

[dense plover]

That’s the problem

He will act like he was right

He always acts like he’s right

And he still hasn’t corrected himself on some of the bullshit from that fucking cosmology chart

[azure estuary]

Pyromancer?

[normal niche]

yeah

[azure estuary]

He’s the Alex Jones of Warcraft lore

His theories are interesting, but people need to take them with a grain of salt. His whole, the light and the titans are the true villains, while death and void are the true good guys. Theory tickles me though.

[dense plover]

^this

He has some interesting stuff but it’s surrounded by so much bullshit

So so much

Just like mountains of shit

[azure estuary]

He’s probably the biggest reason that so many people still ride the “Sylvanas will save Azeroth” train.

[plain vigil]

I'm here

Pyro was right about Chronical tho. The devs confirmed it at the Q&A

[azure estuary]

Yes, and he will make a video gloating about it like he does when he turns out to be right.

[normal niche]

so when you say he's the alex jones of warcraft lore.

he's basically like this

[plain vigil]

The issue of gloating issss

[normal niche]

SYLVANAS IS SERVING, SARGERAS BECAUSE ARGUS IS A DEATH TITAN, THE TITANS ARE THE TRUE BAD GUYS, AND THEY HIDE A LOT OF SECRETS.

[azure estuary]

Exactly

[plain vigil]

Y'all art taking this shit really poorly.

[normal niche]

pretty much the faceless ones:https://youtu.be/IoCUoB4Ex3c?t=196

[azure estuary]

lol

[dense plover]

the problem is that he is only right because he guesses SO MANY things

[plain vigil]

I see it more as he learns as he goes (he's a mop baby) so he changes his theories as he learns more

[dense plover]

but he doesnt say his old theories are wrong

and if his old stuff is right, he hops on that bandwagon

he just creates a pile of theories so big, that ofc some are bound to be right

if youre trying to guess a number between 1 and 1000, and you guess 500 times, you have a pretty good chance at being right

it doesnt mean youre a good guesser

[feral belfry]

I know people hate grind and rng on this

There will be a tremendous number of factors that influence the weekly loot choice.```

But such bad wording

in before you have to do 1000 activities to get the best chest for the week haha

It just seems more scary due to the wording haha

[deep pawn]

more like it's just combining all your chests together

So you'll get an option from your +10, your pvp rating, how far in torghast you got that week, and if you used any bonus rolls in a raid

so if you do everything at the same skill, you'll have lots of options

if you do one better than another, well, rip if that high ilvl reward isn't an upgrade over the other content haha

unless they offer at least two options from each content you clear

[feral belfry]

I guess time will tell 🙂

[deep pawn]

indeed, but right now it sounds like it's just throwing all your chest loot together and it will all be different ilvls haha

[dense plover]

they said theyll offer 6 options didnt they?

[deep pawn]

as an example, if you did everything

if you only do m+, it might be 2

[dense plover]

thats still better than where we are now tbh

some choice is better than none

[deep pawn]

might also be less loot overall, but with less rng it should hopefully be okay

[tropic trail]

does anyone know if there was a Q&A that they asked about the next heritage armor after 8.3 ?

[night swift]

nothing

[signal bone]

undead / NE seems likely

for 8.3.5

did we not get any 8.3.5 info?

[night swift]

we got none

[azure estuary]

All they talked about was Shadowlands

I do like how they are trying to make this game more alt friendly. Especially when we have 4 different covenants to join

[deep pawn]

I will do 16 characters to get all 16 sets

[dense plover]

Hopefully, getting 1 version of the set will count for later transmog

[deep pawn]

that would be too easy and you know it

[ancient jasper]

Any guesses on possible new Race/Class combos in Shadowlands?

[night swift]

AR dks

[ancient jasper]

Nope those are coming in 8.3 😄

[zealous basalt]

Oh

Then nothing

[tropic trail]

HUMAN SHAMANS

Not

[normal niche]

human shamans sounds cool

some humans can attune to the spirits

the heck blizz

[zealous basalt]

its kalled monk

[normal niche]

yes

So which, shadowlands zone would any of you think you'd end up at, in general anyway.

[deep pawn]

With the new starting zone, GIVE US GOBLIN AND WORGEN MONKS

hell, Lightforged too

[frigid crater]

pandaren demon hunters when

[proven widget]

All I wanted since their announcement was to be a Lightforged Shaman even if it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense

[uncut vault]

really does suck that lightforged got shafted because blizz couldnt be creative with the highmountain classes

so both got 5

[deep pawn]

is that it?

[storm marsh]

I don't get it. I need someone to openly ask the devs about AR customization because there is a different answer every time.

-from another devs interview

[deep pawn]

we probably won't have an answer before alpha

[storm marsh]

Yeah

[calm garden]

when 8.3 comes out those who pre ordered the expac will be able to check out the deathknight stuff early as the events of there new start experiance takes place shortly prior to the events of the cinematic

[peak fern]

I'm very curious about the new skin tones for AR DKs, almost makes me want to preorder lol

[strange falcon]

stahp

[peak fern]

:c

[tropic trail]

@signal bone why do you say Undead / NE seems likely?

[peak fern]

It would make sense considering Calia and forsaken story progression, also Tyrande makes an appearence in 8.3. But since Darkshore WF armor has these themes, I wouldn't be surprised if trolls and draenei are next

[deep pawn]

I'm hyped for long draenei tails

For vulpera, I want either a bright blue fur, or a bright pink fur

Ptr build is hopefully Tuesday

[strange falcon]

@tropic trail currently the only races that dont have a main race ""tied/inspired/using their model""

is worgen/undead

so while blizzard is now working on shadowlands,so they could have diverted all funds there

there is a nonzero chance of a last batch of allied races

in 8.3.5 to combat the content drought

[night swift]

I doubt vulpera are getting more appearances on top of the ones they’re about to drop with

[strange falcon]

yeah ^

[night swift]

Besides they have a lot of options already

[strange falcon]

though they do have a bright yellow fur color in the files,it's probably dropped for possible copyright issues

[night swift]

And might get a couple more now cause dk fur colors

[tropic trail]

main race?

[night swift]

A race to base it off of

Like how void elf are blood elves, vulpera have goblin skeletons etc

[tropic trail]

Ohh

[night swift]

Theres no base race skeleton for one

Unless they add that uhhh tiger race from draenor for worgen

But I highly doubt it

And I don’t think anything shares the forsaken skeleton

[sharp gulch]

skinny kultirans but they arent playable

[tropic trail]

i really dont get bothered about Forsaken being next for Horde heritage after Goblins but i would get bothered if NE/Humans would get it before Draenei..

[storm marsh]

im pretty sure Humans/Forsaken/Night Elves/Orcs will be the last races to recieve heritage armor

next must 100% be draenei and trolls

[tropic trail]

i agree with that ^

since they already got the warfront stuff

[peak fern]

I hope draenei get something else than crystals everywhere on golden plate

[tropic trail]

same lol

[lethal folio]

Hey there. When starts the wow birhtday ingame? I heard 5th of November is that correct?

[warm wren]

I heard 15th from some people in a different server

[tropic trail]

its the 5th

[warm wren]

Sweet

[peak fern]

since there's a lot to do this year I think the celebration is prolonged, no?

[warm wren]

Maybe. A lot of different sites are speculating 15th or 16th to the beginning of December

[tropic trail]

its 2 months long

November 5th to end of December

[strange falcon]

really?

i need a source :o

if it lasts until end of december,i can take my uni exams on 1-3rd december,and then buy a 1month sub

[tropic trail]

yes they said it at Blizzcon that its 2 month long

[strange falcon]

:P

[warm wren]

Nice

[tropic trail]

https://youtu.be/ZKun7BL0NmU

skip to 4:30

[lethal folio]

Thx

[sullen dawn]

Are Old Gods like C'Thun or Yogg-Saron still alive?

AA: I would say we should consider them dead.

@dense plover

[unborn glacier]

@sullen dawn That's the wrong interview.

At BlizzCon it was confirmed we have defeated their physical manifestations but they've returned to the great dark

[zinc sandal]

https://gyazo.com/b5efeed28354717fdf10fd199788d992

[peak fern]

XD

[sullen dawn]

the thing i posted is from blizzcon

they said we can consider them dead, but that dead isnt always dead in wow

basically we did 'kill them', but yes they can remanifest

i only posted it because peach always says we never killed yogg/c'thun

[normal niche]

http://i.imgur.com/xzWZVMx.jpg

Player Humans descend from Stormwind.

Wait, is Orc Heritage Armor a thing

or Mag'har Orcs only?

I'm confused

[inner copper]

Just the warfront sets from stromgarde look like orc heritage

[dark furnace]

There currently is no Orc Heritage Armor

They did want to make one for each core race though

[normal niche]

Oh.

[dark furnace]

What Lunar Aurora said

Is the closest there is

[normal niche]

Well if the Orc Heritage Armor, ever comes out.

I hope its something shaman like, probably gonna be warrior like

I mean, tauren didn't get something shaman like

[dark furnace]

I expect it to look something like that

[normal niche]

Yeah.

[dark furnace]

Imagine Thralls vanilla armor

That would be cool

[normal niche]

Undead Heritage Armor too.
https://i.imgur.com/RbSAhI7.jpg This is an art of, what people imagine it could be.

but damn, this looks badass.

[dark furnace]

That's from the Warfront

Its already in game

[normal niche]

It has like a scourge theme to it, since the forsaken

were

oh

then whats the damn, point if we've got the warfront sets

lmao

the human looks good already

one

[dark furnace]

This is from Darkshore

[cloud iron]

@unborn glacier @sullen dawn Yeah, based on what Ive read they are trying to look into multiple aspects of the afterlife. Shadowlands is a sneak peak, so I imagine in the future they may look into an “Afterlife” for the Void. Its part of their attempt at the cosmology of wow

[daring dune]

I think that could be more better with new straight back option for undeads

[normal niche]

well if that's true

Imagine @cloud iron
The Afterlife for the Void.

that'd be creepy as hell

[dark furnace]

Yeah, that could be a customizastion option in Shadowlands

[sullen dawn]

@cloud iron yeh this is direction I thought they'd take things for a while. they need a few expansions to flesh out the cosmology before the 'cosmic war'

people speak in such certainities about death/void/light/life but to be honest we actually know so little about them. expect 'retcons' a plenty in the coming years, even though I don't feel like they're retcons, just building out the lore

the only forces we actually know a lot about are chaos and order

[normal niche]

Retcon is a meme word at this point

[sullen dawn]

yeh

[normal niche]

literally anything new to warcrafts lore

is a retcon

[sullen dawn]

haha man

i agree 100%

thank you 😛

[normal niche]

Retcon and Filler Expansion

[sullen dawn]

people need to accept it's a whole new world now, the old lore was running out of space, so things are gonna get much wider

[normal niche]

my two favorite memes

[sullen dawn]

according to some people every expansion is filler

i heard people call legion filler rofl

frankly im excited going into the shadowlands, so much mystery and potential new lore

[dark furnace]

They call it filler if it is something they do not want

They need to carry the story forward somehow

[dense plover]

Retcons are only bad when they rewrite existing lore in a negative way

[sullen dawn]

well this convo started around blizz saying yogg and cthun are dead

[dense plover]

Also, MoP was considered filler and it worked out great mostly

Yeah I dislike that

Especially when they recently said (last Blizzcon) that they weren’t

Seems like they can’t come to a decision

Or don’t want them to be a threat forever

[sullen dawn]

or maybe not 'dead', but we did kill them. old gods can remanifest it appears

gives them options

[dense plover]

Yeah

I think they’re essentially trying to open up the box they created

[normal niche]

Well I'm glad, that they're expanding their universe and the lore.

as much as I loved the warcraft lore of the past, sometimes you gotta expand on things.

explain things.

[dense plover]

This is the first time in a long time we have a totally unknown villain

[sullen dawn]

It's kinda cool imo

[normal niche]

Also with the fact, that they pointed out that chronicles is written from the titans perspective.

this makes me think, whats the perspective of Sargeras

or the Void Lords

[terse patrol]

I just hate how inconsistent Blizzard is with the Scourge. The “there must always be a lich king” shit makes no sense. When Illidan weakened him, the Forsaken were created. When we defeated him in Wrath, however, the Scourge split into warring necromancers vying for power in Cata rather than more Forsaken happening. NOW, the Lich King is gone and the Scourge is running rampant.

[sullen dawn]

Gives me feels of warcraft 1-3. When we had no idea what to expect

It does make sense imo honkerton. "There must always be a lich king" hasn't always been true - simply since the legion created the first one. We will probably learn more about this in shadowlands. It appears there was a legion 'heist' if shadowlands at some point, which led to the creation of the scourge etc..

[normal niche]

Legion heist kek

so they just robbed, the shadowlands

and took the helmet

and armor

[sullen dawn]

I also think, but this is pure speculation, this 'heist' is how the demons gained the ability to respawn in twisting nether rather than go to shadowlands

I say heist in ' ' because I cant think of a better word. I dont think it's as simple as they stole it

[normal niche]

Well I think that's funny.

[sullen dawn]

My gut instinct is something the nathrezim did

But yeh were gonna meet the guy who forged the helm

[normal niche]

Okay so, what are your favorite wow cinematics I'll line mine in order.

Wrath of the Lich King Cinematic Trailer,Cataclysm Cinematic Trailer,Wod Cinematic Trailer,BFA Cinematic Trailer, Mist of Pandaria Trailer.

those are my favorites.

[sullen dawn]

Just trailer ones?

[normal niche]

mhm

[ember tundra]

bfa, wotlk, cata, wod, mop

[sullen dawn]

Wrath, mop, shadowlands, vanilla

[normal niche]

the reason I liked the Battle for Azeroth one is because

well

Horde vs Alliance aspect.

[sullen dawn]

Actually wrath,mop,shadowlands,bfa,vanilla

[dense plover]

We need to find out where the crown came from and why it matters

[vivid harness]

wrath, shadowlands ,bfa ,cata

[dense plover]

Why did breaking it open the portal

How did it end up in the legion’s possession?

[vivid harness]

anchor to the shadowlands

[sullen dawn]

i think thats shadowlands story material peach

[dense plover]

But why?

Why is it an anchor?

[sullen dawn]

no way to know right now

[dense plover]

Yes it’s shadowlands story

I just mean they need to answer it in shadowlands

[sullen dawn]

ah

i have faith they will

given they already said we're going to meet the guy who made the helm

[dense plover]

Who built icecrown and the helm and frostmourne? Why? Why does it connect to the shadowlands? Why did it end up on azeroth?

[sullen dawn]

and frostmorne

[dense plover]

They did

And we should find out

[languid yoke]

heck a german website interviewed Ion and asked the real question

[dense plover]

It does beg an important question tho

[languid yoke]

When is 8.3

and the answer is very possibly next year

[dense plover]

Late dec or early Jan

They extended the anniversary because they aren’t confident they can get it out this year

Which imo is good

[sullen dawn]

thats fine

[vivid harness]

scourge built icecrown

[dense plover]

Better a delayed patch than a bad patch

[languid yoke]

yeah but neither me nor my guild are looking forward to doing eternal palace any longer

[dense plover]

Scourge didn’t tho

[vivid harness]

they did

[sullen dawn]

no the scourge did not

[languid yoke]

if eternal palace at least had a fun endboss

[vivid harness]

didnt they?

they built it around the frozen throne

[dense plover]

During the presentation, they talked about how the tower of the damned was built by the same people

[vivid harness]

or was that ret conned

[dense plover]

Somewhat retconned

[vivid harness]

ffs blizzard

[dense plover]

Essentially arthas reinforced it

[steel venture]

Maldraxxus worked with the Scourge, TLDR.

[dense plover]

Maybe

We don’t know

[sullen dawn]

yeh it was a natural anchor point

[dense plover]

^

[sullen dawn]

but arthas/whoever else build around that

[vivid harness]

no maldraxxus is where the scourge are from

[sullen dawn]

to strengthen it

[steel venture]

That's the retcon.
No, we do know.
They mention the forces being used by the Lich King and Scourge.

[vivid harness]

^^

[steel venture]

The demons still created the OG Scourge we know, just, now more dead things are also taken from Maldraxxus.

[sullen dawn]

yeh id say the forge guy we meet will be in maldraxxus

its retconned that the demons didnt 'create' the scourge so much as they introduced shadowlands power/entities to azeroth

like in malxraxxus is probably a 'proto-scourge', you can see that with the abomination type creatures

[steel venture]

... gestures at first gen dks and og orcish necromancers

those guys are OG scourge.

So they kinda still did.

[sullen dawn]

yeh and their power is from shadowlands

legion just harnessed/stole it

[dense plover]

I figure forge guy is beneath torghast

[vivid harness]

nah

would be too hard to get there

no inn keeper

[sullen dawn]

that works too peach

[vivid harness]

they wouldnt do that

[dense plover]

Except there’s clearly a path to the tower

[vivid harness]

prob in uh what ya call it

[sullen dawn]

why does that matter? hes a story piece, not a gameplay thing we need to visit

[vivid harness]

orbius

or whatever

[dense plover]

And all of the forge stuff is tied to the tower

[sinful venture]

^

[sullen dawn]

unless he helps us build legendaries?

[dense plover]

He does

[sullen dawn]

ah

sorry

[dense plover]

Damnation armor is the leggo armor

[sinful venture]

He will be apart of the feature

[sullen dawn]

ok my mistake

[steel venture]

It's supposed to be more additive lore than full out retcons across the board. They're trying to not contradict Chronicles too much this time aroundm TLDR.

[sullen dawn]

yep, and thats fine by me

[vivid harness]

well like technically they can

since its from the perspective of the titans only

[steel venture]

(Which doesn't make sense but ok Ion.)

[dense plover]

I don’t think they meant the titans wrote it

I think they just meant that the titans don’t know everything

And we only learned the stuff the titans could learn

[austere gazelle]

Yeah but it doesn't make sense anyway

[steel venture]

The titans somehow watching all this shit happening after Sarg wrecks them and not intervening.
That's literally what is intended with Ion's mention

[vivid harness]

no they said they wrote it no?

[austere gazelle]

many things couldn't have been written by the titan's perspective

[steel venture]

It's dumb to give an OOC Lore Bible an actual credited character perspective.

[austere gazelle]

It's from me'dan PoV

[vivid harness]

lmao no

[unborn glacier]

@sullen dawn No, what you posted was from a interview with Alex Afasiabi months ago. Wowhead juxtaposed that one with an interview with Steve Danuser done on the weekend.

"If you think about our cosmology and the way that creatures of magic work as opposed to mortals, mortals die they go to the Shadowlands. If you fought the Legion, you fought demons. If you kill them on Azeroth, where do they go? Back to the Twisting Nether, which is the place where they come from."

"So if you think about other magical creatures and think what happens when you kill them on Azeroth, where do they go? There's the potential for things like that to kind of happen. We try to have this cosmology of the way things work, and that's something that you can apply to other things. And I think the old gods are an interesting case where, you know, we've defeated one version of them and who knows if another manifestation will eventually take place."

[austere gazelle]

there is still Xalatath though

[sullen dawn]

oh thats an odd thing to do

mixing the interviews

[vivid harness]

Q: After the Maghar orcs scenario, what happened to that alternate Draenor? What's up with the lightbound?
A: That Draenor is still out there ,the light still has a presence on it. Those things, we keep in the back pocket, and if something really fits that's something we can grab to look at under a new set of circumstances. Right now it's life and death but light and void is very interesting to explore. This is just the first step on exploring the cosmology. Chronicle is written from a specific point of view (titans) but it is canon - more stuff did happen behind the scenes though, and you'll find some explained in Shadowlands.

[austere gazelle]

but for the Demons, I'm curious as why Argus was needed, if he was a titan of death , why influence reincarnation of ppl not " dying " ?

[unborn glacier]

@sullen dawn They didn't mix it, they juxtaposed it against the answer Alex gave months ago, where he claimed they were dead. But now we're told that their physical manifestations have been defeated but they've returned to the great dark in some manner like the Legion. @dense plover So their threat is not squished yet, they've just been pocketed til the whole good thing happens, which likely includes Yshaarj.

[dense plover]

Yeah

That’s what I was saying

Getting themselves out of a box

[sullen dawn]

yeh makes sense to me, pretty much what i thought

they have choices where to take it now

[unborn glacier]

@austere gazelle It was likely that syphoning power from a titan lets you do really fucked up shit

[normal niche]

I mean has someone even siphoned a titans power lorewise?

ranger?

[unborn glacier]

Sargeras

Using Argus to fuel his burning Legion

[normal niche]

Oh yeah

[steel venture]

You know what'd be fun? If the Winter Queen was a new representative of Elune on her behalf.

It'd work with how the wild gods apparently now go to recover in the Ardenweald.

[zealous basalt]

Who dat

[harsh wedge]

Leader of the Night Fae covenant

[tropic trail]

i can see her as an aspect of Elune

or a secret old god

[near garnet]

Isn't elune the moon?

What if she is a martian?

Begone Elune

[normal niche]

By Elune

the only goddess that's close, to a real deity

in warcraft lore

like one of those gods, that literally don't use a form to appear

they just,

well their followers

[tropic trail]

i know that guy

elune so far is non corporeal

[normal niche]

i question what would happen

if you gave the middle finger to elune

if that's a concept even

lmao

in the wow universe

[tropic trail]

i want to moon the moon

[meager zodiac]

literaly any woman that shows up "ITS ELUNE"

like ... chill

its the winter queen

[strange falcon]

^

People still think the arbiter is elune

[meager zodiac]

the night fae are basicaly the unseelie court, and in fae mythos, having a queen comes with their season

the winter queen rules over anderfell, and if she was elune, we wouldnt see kaldorei souls in non night fae areas

and you see night elf souls walking around in bastion

and yeah "arbiter is totaly elune" anoys the crap out of me becuase if this was supposed to be elune there would be 2 things:
1: it wouldnt be revealed until a massive moment
2: have clear moon design because blissard is not subtle

its a bottom of the barrel theory just for the sake of it, and its anoying

[normal niche]

people are gonna say that anything that has to do with nature is elune

ffs we have people who think, that elune is a death goddess

[cyan prairie]

i guess that people think that the Arbiter is Elune, because Tyrande has a story in next expansion (what a surprise)

[normal niche]

I mean, the Arbiter is female but that's a completely new character.

and the Arbiter isn't commonly associated, with a moon

[tropic trail]

Elune is a Nether goddess!

[normal niche]

I think the reason of why people are getting, that Idea of Elune being the queen

[tropic trail]

Both light and shadow

[normal niche]

is primarily because

you remember, when Ysera

that cutscene

in legion

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Elune_lifts_Ysera.jpg

and this is from the Warcraft RPG, I guess.

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/a/a1/Elune.PNG?version=9d6c3a819e14adf1d9fcb0a3504f301a

Which is uncanon

That's what, Elune should be tbh
just some super powerful non-corporeal night elf, mixed with a troll that lives on azeroths moons

[unborn glacier]

Yseras soul is likely in Ardenweald

[normal niche]

I really hope so

that'd be nice

[pulsar iris]

or the maw

since she died

and death was already broken

[normal niche]

yeah

[unborn glacier]

True

[normal niche]

Since the veil is broken, there is a lot of potential.

[azure estuary]

When did death get broken?

[unborn glacier]

I hope we see Arthas's soul being consumed in the Maw

[normal niche]

Remember when the vale of eternal blossoms, was turned into that sha wasteland, i mean its restored now, but I'm thinking that they're gonna do a zone change in a major patch

considering the theme

of this expansion.

[sullen dawn]

i hope Arthas plays a huge role in this expansion

illidan/legion levels

[cyan prairie]

he'll be a random spawn in the Tower dungeon xD

[sullen dawn]

lol

[cyan prairie]

tbh i'd like the idea

of that Tower being "endless" while the expansion lasts

and becoming a raid at the end

where we defeat the Jailor

[sullen dawn]

itd be funny if Arthas defeated sylvanas

[cyan prairie]

you know like, we had a few dungeons inside of ICC already

[pulsar iris]

i dont think we'll see arthas

if i'm not mistaken, they told us he is gone for good

[tropic trail]

Arthas cant defeat Sylvanas

hes nothing then a soul

[cyan prairie]

nobody can defeat her currently

[pulsar iris]

EXCEPT

THE HEROES OF AZEROTH

[cyan prairie]

with the current state i expect us to die faster than she does

[sullen dawn]

they said 'Arthas is dead' in the kind of way that's basically, we're misdirecting you so it's more of a surprise

there was even a smirk as he said it

[cyan prairie]

we need to rescue Garrosh

he had enough Plot Armor to call her a bitch and live

[pulsar iris]

i must be one of the few who doesnt want anything to do with arthas this xpac

[peak fern]

The only moment I actually liked him

I dont mind. I would be okay if he didn't show up at any point, because tbh if they brought him back the chances would be high that they would ruin him

[dense plover]

He just needs to stay evil if he appears

[cyan prairie]

do we have the precise date of the "Machine of Death" getting broken?

[strange falcon]

not really

[cyan prairie]

it had to happen after TBC

but before BfA

[pulsar iris]

before legion even

we know the conspiracy with sylvanas and the jailer began before legion

[dense plover]

Well no, we know the deal with the jailer was made during edge of night

But that doesn’t mean that’s when death broke

[pulsar iris]

when was edge of night

[dense plover]

Right after the end of wrath

Bolvar put on the helm and sylvanas tried to kill herself by jumping off icecrown

It’s when she got her valkyr

BUT

[pulsar iris]

yeh i know a bit of that story

[dense plover]

The going theory is that the machine of death was broken when sylvanas made the deal with Helya

[cyan prairie]

if the machine of death was broken back then already

[dense plover]

Or around then

[cyan prairie]

he wouldn't need her

he's like N'zoth

"powerful but needs help"

[dense plover]

As I said, I don’t think it’s been broken that long

They said a few years, so 2-3

So around legion

A lot of people theorize it’s after she became warchief

Possibly during her deal with Helya that we still don’t know about really

[cyan prairie]

what if

it happened after Argus died?

[dense plover]

There’s probably going to be a book

[cyan prairie]

"the victory nobody noticed"

[dense plover]

Argus didn’t die did he? I thought Argus was defeated

[cyan prairie]

i think that it might be related to Argus

since Ogmot already described like whole BfA

in his journal

"a lady wrapped in dark swirlies, leading a herd of blind sheep over a tall cliff"

[dense plover]

Yeah that’s sylvanas

Obviously

But Idk

[cyan prairie]

and he talks about the "scary red star"

[dense plover]

Could be Argus could be Helya

[cyan prairie]

The portal of Shadowlands reminds me of that star

[dense plover]

She wasn’t on Argus so idk if that would make much sense

[cyan prairie]

just getting bigger

[dense plover]

I think the star is the closed portal to Argus

The red star

[cyan prairie]

and he also mentioned a "victory that came unnoticed" on Argus

[dense plover]

Literally in the sky on every map

He didn’t say it was on Argus

[cyan prairie]

he said

let me log my main, gonna screenshot the page

[dense plover]

Just go to wowhead

[cyan prairie]

"great victory dat our enemy not even notice"

[dense plover]

Yeah those are twilight cultists

Why would they care about the shadowlands?

They don’t

They care about Nzoth

Remember the tidestone?

[cyan prairie]

why would they care about Sylvanas?

[dense plover]

Pretty sure that’s the victory here

These are visions

I don’t think those 2 are related

There’s one that talks about a throne

And being free

Now that one I think is about Bolvar

And shadowlands

[cyan prairie]

Bolvar wasn't bound to the throne

i mean being bound is kinda against your will

but he chose to do it, to keep Azeroth safe from the Scourge

[dense plover]

Read the quote tho - the full quote

I’m pretty sure the unnoticed victory thing is about the tidestone

Since that’s what benefits the twilight cultists

And would make sense to have happened while we were on Argus

[tropic trail]

throne

being set free

it's the jailer obvs

[cyan prairie]

i doubt it would take the Naga that long to get the Tidestone

[dense plover]

No?

Jailer isn’t free tho

[cyan prairie]

we literally left it in Tomb of Sargeras

[dense plover]

Even now

[tropic trail]

yet

[cyan prairie]

he kinda is "free"

he does what he wants

takes all souls

[dense plover]

I meant he literally isn’t

He’s trapped On the towe

[cyan prairie]

that

[dense plover]

They literally went over how he can’t leave

[cyan prairie]

is why this line makes sense

[dense plover]

How he is trapped

[cyan prairie]

we think he's imprisoned there

but he's free, because Sylvanas works for him

[tropic trail]

the tower is his throne

[cyan prairie]

she does what he can't

[tropic trail]

he's bound to his throne

metaphorically it makes sense

throne represents his domain

[cyan prairie]

nobody else fits that quote

Sargeras is imprisoned, but Legion is disorganised now

and too afraid too fight after Argus' death

[tropic trail]

hot take

expac ends with a redeemed sargeras and arthas fighting sylv and the jailer

[normal niche]

or

[cyan prairie]

and Garrosh spamming "Come at me, Bitch!"

[normal niche]

a void expac takes place

it turns out that the Jailor was a minion to the void lords.

[tropic trail]

there's only one person in the maw tied to sylvanas

[normal niche]

so he sends us to the void

[cyan prairie]

btw the Throne part appears on a page, that is just after a page related to Sylvanas

[normal niche]

to be honest tho.

I wish that they wouldn't have went with the

(Sylvanas breaks the helm of domination

(and opens something to the shadowlands thing

[tropic trail]

but they explained it

[normal niche]

mhm

[tropic trail]

the LK summoned beings from Maldraxxus

the crown was like an anchor

[strange falcon]

blizzard have outright stated "sometimes we like to space out expansions,for example,we could have done legion,right after mists of pandaria"

[tropic trail]

or the place ICC was built on

[strange falcon]

does that mean...... tinfoil conspiracy hat on blizzard intentionally does 1 shit,expansion

1 good expansion

[tropic trail]

they spread out the story

so it seems more real

and makes sense

[normal niche]

so the expansion after shadowlands is gonna be shit

^_^

[tropic trail]

you can't go from fighting corrupted garrosh to sargeras in like 3 patches

[cyan prairie]

we go

from killing Titans

[normal niche]

Kind of BFA.

[cyan prairie]

to killing pigs

in one patch

[normal niche]

we went from killing g'huun some titan made old god, to back to the faction war

to N'zoth

and that's about it

[tropic trail]

they started setting up n'zoth in legion

and they explained the blood war

[cyan prairie]

After killing G'huun, i'm surprised that jaina is still alive in any way

[tropic trail]

it was a literal blood war, for the jailer to gain strength

and slyv

[normal niche]

Jaina is just strong

[tropic trail]

yes

yes i am

[strange falcon]

jaina is female,so she has innate plot armor

[tropic trail]

@cyan prairie Sylvanas doesnt work for anyone. Ion even confirmed it that shes above serving anyone

they have a bargain

[cyan prairie]

i didn't say she's working for anyone

[tropic trail]

you did

[cyan prairie]

i just said that she has a reason to help him

[tropic trail]

a mutual partnership you mean

they both gain

you said she works for him

[cyan prairie]

my bad then

[tropic trail]

[cyan prairie]

you get what i mean

[tropic trail]

ofc

ahem

wahmen are not slaives

[normal niche]

Jaina literally did this https://youtu.be/TpAzBsApEZw?t=838

[tropic trail]

yes

[cyan prairie]

Blizzard today: wahmen aren't slaves

[tropic trail]

yes i did

[cyan prairie]

Blizzard back in MoP:

fuck the screenshot bugs again

[tropic trail]

sylvanas: breaking the glass ceiling, and destroying the patriarchy of the scourge

[sullen dawn]

wat...

[sullen dawn]

just because shes female?

[tropic trail]

nice doublepost

[zealous basalt]

What is the topic today

[cyan prairie]

Discord is glitching for some weird reason

sends screenshots twice

[tropic trail]

the patriarchy of the scourge

[sullen dawn]

be sexist apparently

[zealous basalt]

Excuse me what

[normal niche]

Bolvar was just weak

[tropic trail]

it's a joke

calm down you horde scum

[normal niche]

The OG Arthas Lich King would've whooped slyvanas

sylvanas-

[cyan prairie]

Silence, alliance dog

[sullen dawn]

im alliance

[tropic trail]

in time

all will serve the scourge

[sullen dawn]

and its not funny

[tropic trail]

OG Lich KIng would died the same as bolvar

bolvar didnt die tho

[zealous basalt]

They don't seem to understand

[tropic trail]

yea

[cyan prairie]

TBH i wonder why she didn't kill Bolvar

[tropic trail]

they dont undrestand that Sylvanas is literally like frostmourne

[zealous basalt]

Can we... Stop memeing

[tropic trail]

everyone she kills she gets stronger

noone touch my burn victim

[cyan prairie]

like "i will leave him alive, so he can gather an army that will kill me after some time"

[zealous basalt]

Mauldrak

[tropic trail]

so when are we protesting the horde annexing teldrassil

[zealous basalt]

Those uestions will be answered when 8.3 arrives

[strange falcon]

i believe the devs said canonically alliance won both warfronts,since it was their land to begin with

this bcon

[tropic trail]

damn right

Teldrassil je Alliance

[cyan prairie]

Then Sylvanas sees an army of angry Orcs, Trolls, Vampires, Forest Hippies, Angels, Some Weird Undead Spiders coming for her and says:
"Oh, you're approaching me?"

[strange falcon]

"we cant kill you without getting closer"

[normal niche]

I know I'm just joking, its just funny that I've talked to so many people who're unaware of the lore behind sylvanas's power

[tropic trail]

Gilneas is the heart of the alliance

[cyan prairie]

"then come as close as you want"

[normal niche]

so its like a joke about that yk

[sudden oak]

I still have the urge to stab people that tell me that bolvar should be stronger than sylvanas

[cyan prairie]

and then we all say "Ah shit, here we go again"

[normal niche]

To be fair

I found Bolvar grunting funny during the cinematic.

Like he was an Ogre

[cyan prairie]

Sylvanas could kill any of the leaders currently

why she doesn't do it?

[zealous basalt]

I think that he stopped being bolvar when his eyes glowed blue

[tropic trail]

he should be stronger

[cyan prairie]

Bolvar lost

cuz he respecced

to frost

[normal niche]

frost sucks

[cyan prairie]

should've stayed in Blood

[tropic trail]

bolvar lost cause it's 2019

[cyan prairie]

Tanks are better for 1v1

[zealous basalt]

Or unholy

And use control undead

[cyan prairie]

And tell her to jump

again

[normal niche]

but Sylvanas is marked as a skull

[cyan prairie]

Bolvar is a Skull too

tho he's a lvl 80 skull

he was afk since WotLK

[normal niche]

Sylvanas had her dodge rate going tho.

did you see those crits?

[zealous basalt]

He didn't have correct stats

And his heart level was 1

[normal niche]

she also disenchanted the helm of domination

[zealous basalt]

I think he forgot to put warmode talents on anyways

[cyan prairie]

Bolvar is the guy that comes back after a long break and instantly starts complaining how "casual friendly" the game is

[normal niche]

and she typed

delete

after disenchanting it

[cyan prairie]

when all he did was 3/9 LFR

and a +2 Atal Dazar

then he meets a fully geared Belf Hunter

and gets oneshotted

[normal niche]

How did she solo Bolvars army of the dead?

[cyan prairie]

good AoE i think

[tropic trail]

feminism

or aoe yeah

[cyan prairie]

this is how

[normal niche]

I really feel like Sylvanas has her own version of Barrage.

She just sends like ten dark arrows at her opponents.

at the same time

[cyan prairie]

the fuck is wrong with Discord today?

[indigo laurel]

I would guess with the powers the Jailer lend her she probably has some technique to instantly cleanse/control lesser undead.

[cyan prairie]

they were all lvl 80

[normal niche]

Aww man I want my DK to be empowered by the Jailor.

[cyan prairie]

so they all get oneshotted

[normal niche]

I want my class to have chains and shit

[cyan prairie]

Sylvanas came to get Invincible

but he dropped a plate helmet instead

[normal niche]

This expac needs to have a mount, that's a nod to Invincible.

take Ideas blizzard, give Bolvar a new horse.

call it vincible

[cyan prairie]

Invisible

a mount nobody can see

[normal niche]

also

those Val'Kyr models

it'd be neat to bring back glyphs so priest can

transform the thing

you know the spirit healer, that they die

and form into is it like a talent or something

[sudden oak]

I think priests can still use it

[cyan prairie]

i just realised that what Sylvanas currently does kinda doesn't make sense

[languid yoke]

only currently?

[cyan prairie]

currently - after getting powers from that weird spiky guy in Shadowlands

[tropic trail]

so thats like

early legion

[cyan prairie]

everything seems to lead to some ultimate plot twist

if she really wants to free the Jailer

[tropic trail]

there already was a twist

[cyan prairie]

and i think there will be one more

i guess the expansion will end with us killing the Jailor

and her taking his powers

or sth like that

because right now i don't think anyone on Azeroth could win against her

she could just go, kill all the leaders

they would all end up in The Maw

with no hope of escaping

but "nah, you will all live, because someone has to come and kill the Jailor"

[night swift]

Its still kinda dumb that the Sylvanas loyalists aren’t getting shit in SL

Well, more hilarious than dumb

[terse patrol]

Watch, that will be her NOBLE TRUE MOTIVE.

“I could have killed you all, but I didn’t because I wanted you to kill the Jailer!”

[tropic trail]

they can't say anything about loyalists

it's technically a spoiler

[night swift]

They did say gameplay wouldnt change for them though

[tropic trail]

they also said farahlon would be in wod

[indigo laurel]

I am pretty sure they said in the Q&A that they consider that part of the story more or less done

[night swift]

They did yeah

[indigo laurel]

And nothing agains optimism, but blizzard announcing some feature/zone/system and then not following through has a much broder track record as them announcing they wouldn't do something in a given expansion and still introducing it

[night swift]

Lol

Part of this is already not gonna happen, at least the saurfang thing

[tropic trail]

i wonder

if we take someone to the ardenweald

can they be reborn

aka arthas

sylv getting killed for real by arthas would be the ultimate pro troll move

[strange falcon]

dont only wildgods have that ability

to revive once theyve passed enough time in the ardenweald

[tropic trail]

you sayin my boy arthas ain't a god

that's disrespect yo

[languid yoke]

didn't blizz say several times this blizzcon arthas is gon

[tropic trail]

no one is ever truly gone

Ankaranir thanagooorrrrr

[languid yoke]

gesundheit

[terse patrol]

“Arthas is gone”

arthas warns dks in legion not to trust the new LK

[night swift]

Oh yeah the frost dk thing

[uncut vault]

That’s legion lore

Don’t expect the current team to care about that

[terse patrol]

True

Apparently Bolvar is now WoW Tyrael.

[night swift]

Interesting

[terse patrol]

Tell me he’s not WoW Tyrael.

[normal niche]

Sylvanas on the ground, really injured in the end cinematic of Shadowlands
Vol'Jin:''You Disappoint me Sylvanas, you were not worthy of your Warchief Position.''
As Vol'jin attempts to go for a swing, Tyrande stops him in his tracks.
Tyrande:''The Banshee queens punishment is not, alone for you to decide.''

Vol'Jin:''I won't let you kill her.''
Bolvar:''We have all suffered, because of her atrocities, the Shadowlands, the Scourge, The Val'Kyr.
''Let her stand trial in Bastion.''

Meanwhile next expansion, Sylvanas is freed by her loyalist

and some sort of void lord manifestation dude

takes her to the void

[tropic trail]

you didn't give vol'jin an accent mon

what ya be thinkin

[normal niche]

well i tried

lol

In the next expansion, after Shadowlands

Sylvanas will become the messenger of the void lords.

and they'll tell us that the titans lied

the titans are the true bad guys

what a meme

[tropic trail]

kael in 9.0:

a set back of a set back was merely a set back.

[normal niche]

I'm sure blizzard is gonna pull off that joke.

its a 100 percent chance

I can imagine them telling kael's voice actor

''Yo we need you to do another setback joke''

''for the next expansion''

[tropic trail]

then he looks into the camera

like jim from the office

[normal niche]

To be honest, tho out of all the voice actors.

the lady who voices Sylvanas

does it really good

[tropic trail]

Malfurion in Darkshore: Tell her, WE ARE COMING, Malfurion five minutes later: Teldra-what

you know what would be cool

[normal niche]

hmm?

[tropic trail]

the nelves separating from the alliance, and fighting against the horde for teldrassil

[normal niche]

Imagine the Dark Alliance.

[tropic trail]

all playable nelf are now loyalists to the alliance

[normal niche]

that's some warhammer fantasy shit

[tropic trail]

alliance civil war

[normal niche]

The Dark Alliance, the edgier version of the Alliance

Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarves, Night Elves

hmm what else?

[night swift]

Worgen

[tropic trail]

worgen ofc

and nelf worgen

[normal niche]

considering that there is a dark-hode

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dark_Horde

[tropic trail]

honestly

rip off garrosh

for the alliance

garrosh is malfurion forming his own alliance, anduin is vol'jin

[night swift]

Dark Horde leaders are all dead though

[normal niche]

true

[night swift]

Both sides were against the dark horde iirc

[normal niche]

the alliance and the horde are like switching places rn.

[tropic trail]

kul tirans should be made an actual race imo

[normal niche]

The Horde is the new alliance, with the council

[tropic trail]

kul tiras is a part of the alliance

just like ironforge or stormwind

if you really think about it, the horde is more united then the alliance

[normal niche]

yup

[tropic trail]

the alliance is like a tight federation

[normal niche]

the alliance has changed.

[tropic trail]

the horde is one centralized system of government

[normal niche]

it isn't really the union it was

imo

[tropic trail]

imagine if the alliance turned into a loose confederation

of semi indipendant states

after years of prolonged peace

the alliance has secretly started every war since the first one so they dont fall apart

[normal niche]

and the horde has lost at least?

how many warchiefs?

that they needed thrall to say

fuck that

we're not having a warchief anymore

[tropic trail]

a council of all the warchiefs

[cyan prairie]

Horde is a democracy now

[tropic trail]

like a UN for savages

[cyan prairie]

something the alliance is lacking

[tropic trail]

long live monarchy

[normal niche]

The Alliance Empire and the Horde Republic.

[tropic trail]

the federation of the alliance

or

[normal niche]

Emperor Anduin

[cyan prairie]

The N**i alliance

[tropic trail]

the united nations of the alliance

[normal niche]

Because

if you think about it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLzgsbtVAAAGJLm.jpg

kek

[cyan prairie]

who is this guy to the left

[normal niche]

Emperor Valerian pretty much the current leader of the Dominion in the Starcraft Universe.

He's compared to Anduin often

[cyan prairie]

didn't play Starcraft

but ye, they look similiar

[normal niche]

Wait, you also know who Sylvanas reminds me of?

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Sarah_Kerrigan

[cyan prairie]

this is what i heard about many times already

[tropic trail]

our icon is white now

yay white pri

nope

i just realized

the alliance is literally the holy roman empire

[cyan prairie]

that fell...

[tropic trail]

semi independent states united in a confederation

led by a king

[normal niche]

and the High King position is like a Sped Position now.

Anduin was special

[tropic trail]

so lor'themar isn't warchief

[normal niche]

Supreme Commander Genn and High Overlord Tyrande

[tropic trail]

why'd you have to spit in my face blizz

[normal niche]

Imagine a blood elf having a lead position in the horde.

like

warchief

• and such

[cyan prairie]

alliance is like russia

how long will you be the king?

yes

alliance can't even vote for their leader

[normal niche]

If them Elves ever lead the horde

[tropic trail]

as one should

[normal niche]

we can bring back Garithos

[tropic trail]

long live our chancellor

[cyan prairie]

i want to bring back Garrosh

best warchief

[normal niche]

You know what actually.

If you're a blood elf, in the shadowlands

they should have some sort of rare elite or something like a shadw

like a shade

of garithos

that you can fight, and earn an achievement for

[amber storm]

Edgy

[tropic trail]

is it just blood elves or

[cyan prairie]

Garithos was a trash mob

[tropic trail]

i wanna kill him as an alliance

[cyan prairie]

like Aedalas

[tropic trail]

cuz why not

oh shit bois

Daelyn Proudmoore

[normal niche]

Imagine Jaina's reaction

[cyan prairie]

lol this guy went straight to the maw

even before the death getting broken

[normal niche]

https://youtu.be/lwH-2Rd3KpY?t=45

[tropic trail]

imagine durotan meeting thrall

uwu

OH SHIT

WE'RE GOING TO SEE OUR GROM

AND BROXIGAR

[cyan prairie]

Daelin is like alliance players in WoW - he attacks a Horde player thinking that his friends will help him, but then he realises that it's a 1v1 now and he dies. Then he goes to write cryposts on Blizz Forums.

Brox would be in Bastion

Grom maybe in Maldraxxus

[amber storm]

Funny to try to rub the Alliance's face in the shit for that one, but Overlord Krom'gar did the exact same shit, same position of power.

[normal niche]

Well in the Demo

[cyan prairie]

Krom'gar got killed pretty quick for what he did

[flint meteor]

imagine jaina meeting garrosh

amen

[normal niche]

in one of bastions quests

[tropic trail]

groms death was badass

[flint meteor]

[normal niche]

you the player champion

you can like

fight your deeds or something

[tropic trail]

sleep with grom

[cyan prairie]

i can slap Jaina's ass again like i did in BoD?

[amber storm]

a whole nation was split from the Alliance over Dalen

[cyan prairie]

i see no reason not to go there

[tropic trail]

i wanna slap jainas ass

[amber storm]

lol wut

[tropic trail]

or... technically my own

[amber storm]

There you go

[normal niche]

Jaina would probably put someone in an iceblock

for that

[tropic trail]

it's a very confusing time

[cyan prairie]

Jaina Proudmoore we all know you're a guy

wahmen don't exist

[amber storm]

I'm from Moon Guard, I'd be fine with that.

[tropic trail]

my real name is jim

jim proudmoore

[normal niche]

why does proudmoore sound like a badass last name to have?

[cyan prairie]

imagine having a last name Hellscream

literally the god-tier last name

[normal niche]

I mean its possible, people have named their kids after wow characters

[cyan prairie]

oh no

Arthas... my son...

[amber storm]

I still love the idea of people naming their child Danaerys, before she committed genocide.

[cyan prairie]

Well... Sylvia is still a real name so...

[tropic trail]

whats wrong with genocide

of the horde

[cyan prairie]

nothing, as long as it's night elves

[amber storm]

I mean, I'm all for your tides wiping out Orgrimmar. tbh

[tropic trail]

imma call a teleporting fleet on your house

[cyan prairie]

imma shoot it all with my Lazer Dinos

[normal niche]

remember

theramore?

[cyan prairie]

u want another mana bomb?

where this time?

Kul'tiras?

[tropic trail]

remember the internement camps

[amber storm]

Make it Drustvar and we call it good.

[normal niche]

Imagine if that happened

if blizzard pulled off a huge nuke on kul'tiras

[cyan prairie]

i see it as an absolute win

[tropic trail]

if varian was still alive

the horde wouldn't exist

he said so at the end of mop

[cyan prairie]

he would die in a 1v1 against sylvanas

kek

[amber storm]

Anyone would at this point.

[tropic trail]

"if your horde fails to uphold honors as garrosh did, we will end you"

[cyan prairie]

he died like trash mob on Broken Shore

to some 2 random fel guards

[normal niche]

Anduin sucks compared to his dad.

In

tactics