yup
#beta-ptr-spoilers
amber beacon
I think the Logo is the only thing they keep a closely guarded secret xD
cyan prairie
because it's the most important thing
amber beacon
Also the reason the website picture is up is because they've probably got it scheduled to go live at like 11:45am on friday as soon as they've announced the expansion.
cyan prairie
we had
Safe Haven screenshots
before the cinematic went up
like few hours before
upper remnant
The purple logo and the dark ranger picture are both made by fans and known as 100% fake
storm marsh
Yea
amber beacon
no no the fine art print will most likely be the mystery print in the brochure. But when it's announced at blizzcon or just after the ceremony the website/blink store will then display the image. But with everyone at blizzcon and for the sake of effective marketing it'll be on a schedule to release at x time on x day. It's not uncommon for blogs, shops etc.
misty blaze
if that is true i already have a name for my dark ranger already picked.
strange falcon
🤔
storm marsh
Mine always end with -iel anyway 😏
strange falcon
I honestly would rather have tinkers than dark rangers,and tinkers are quite hated in here
cloud iron
Looks ... very fan made.
livid walrus
haha
bitter horizon
lmfao they hecked up
cyan prairie
I can't wait to see so many creative names for Dark Ranger class like Syylvvannaas, Syllvaanas, Slyvanaas, Syylvanas, Sealvanas
mystic heart
DDOS 😄
dark furnace
Wrath of the Cataclysm
amber beacon
If tinkers got a torbjorn mog set I'd be happy 😂
strange falcon
@cyan prairie like illidannn and DH names
cloud iron
@cyan prairie I'll have you know, when demon hunters came out, I came up with the Unique name of 'ILLIWOMAN'.
livid walrus
if wowhead staff want to see
cloud iron
how is that showing up for you? I can get onto the site fine
storm marsh
Ill laugh if they remove bolvar
cloud iron
If they remove Bolvar it just makes it even more confirmed. - Unless they are doing a sylvanas 4d chess on us.
daring dune
ancient forge
they are less quality
amber beacon
It might be cos blink store just went live
and everyone's trying to pre-order to pick up thursday
It happens every year
mighty wolf
https://i.imgur.com/XQEHhfM.jpg
even this is not fake, why do we need Uldorus after defeat Nzoth?
strange falcon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301856568050319360/638472796674064387/Zdvl5Ms.png "" Leaks"" amirite 
deep pawn
melted northrend is insane
cloud iron
I dont see the Old Gods dying that quick; based on the Ingame cinematic of us Kamahameying he-who-shall-not-be-named. It leaves room for a fully animated cutscene of another character going. "Hah-! Now is my chance to strike!"
tropic trail
Tuskarr playable race pls
dark furnace
The Tuskarr come out and kill Nzoth
mighty wolf
Isnt that an axe?
strange falcon
@tropic trail what if --> tuskarr are playable BUT they are only tinkers
dark furnace
It doesn't look like it
cloud iron
The hammer of hers is.. way too generic. I dont see them reforging her hammer.
strange falcon
Ez
cloud iron
Tuskar and Tortollan Tinkers.
sullen dawn
taliesen would be happy
cloud iron
Would end the world.
sullen dawn
tbh id roll a tortollan
calm plank
@mighty wolf there's a lot of stuff hinting towards us not being done with old gods after 8.3
sullen dawn
if they could spin around in their shell
tropic trail
Bolvar grabs her hammer, and through PURE RAGE, it becomes that
cloud iron
rage boi
tropic trail
Literally breaks it into that shape
cloud iron
Just gimmie Dragon Knights.
calm plank
yeeessss
dark furnace
Or Taelia goes to meet him, he gets possessed and his eyes turn blue
calm plank
that's not what I want 😔
cyan prairie
Looks like Belf Heritage
dark furnace
And he kills her
tropic trail
It's Dragon Knight from DOTA
cloud iron
And before people ask- Death Knights becoming Dragon Knights is technically plausable. While Bolvar isnt a Death Knight, he was reborn through Dragons Breath, I imagine he could bestow power to the Death Knights to be 'Dragon Knights'.
cyan prairie
Ahh, the game that stole assets from WoW?
That Dragon Knight would be more possible as 4th DK Spec
especially with that 4th DK Sword
cyan prairie
The Fiery one
deep pawn
they pulled the bolvar image
normal mango
fire DK stuff seems more suitable for a class skin similar to warlock green fire imo
cloud iron
Hm, I guess it would make sense making it a spec. They could just simply call it 'Fire' spec.
Or to be fancy; Dragonfire
night swift
Dragon or Lich fire
cloud iron
Heck, DK's are already OP as it is in the Lore, they are litteral killing machines. Lets throw dragon magic into the mix, what could go wrong?
night swift
Only problem is blood dk is already the red spec
daring dune
hypetrain
night swift
My dk maining ass would jump so hard on a fire themed spec
mighty wolf
where is bingo post? 
calm plank
maybe the lich king is more in control than bolvar is
night swift
Helm magic
uncut vault
It’s probably a single moment in the cinematic
night swift
^
dense plover
I hope it’s not evil Bolvar
calm plank
could be that too
dense plover
Because that would be lame
uncut vault
Eyes are normal most of the time, then at the climax, they turn blue
cyan prairie
Make Blizzard give us HypeTrain as a 10 person land mount
dense plover
I want anti hero bolvar
night swift
The helm could be controlling him
calm plank
or they turn blue when he's casting something
dense plover
But also this explains the lack of nerubians in an assault
They’re saving them for next expac
cloud iron
I have a feeling the 'orange' we saw on the crown/eyes in the past was because of his 'Dormant' state reflecting himself. Yet when he 'awakens' the Lich powers within show the more 'Blue' tint.
sullen dawn
Yeh hes finished his meld right?
dense plover
I mean we have seen him raise undead
I hope it’s more like him fighting back nerzhul or something
Or arthas
Idk
G2g
cyan prairie
The Blue tint might be Lich King taking over Bolvar's mind completely
dense plover
Just popped in for a sec
cloud iron
Nerzhul 'cant' be there. He needs the rest of the armour to be whole. The Helm and Armour are what binds Nerzhul together.
cyan prairie
"removing" what was left of Bolvar there
sullen dawn
Plus didn't arthas crush nerzhuls spirit?
cloud iron
Mayhaps, depends really.
mighty wolf
World of Warcraft: Battle for Wrath of the Burning Legion Warlords of Mists Cataclysm in Pandaria. 🤔
cloud iron
The term 'Jailor of the damned' comes into play. I would be fine if Bolvar was no more, only to be replaced by a 'Neutral' character that served as someone who guided souls through icecrown and into the shadowlands.
calm plank
the world of conflict and construction: conflict for the world known as Azeroth
cloud iron
sounds like the start of a CSI case episode.
"Conflict on azeroth; these are the many tales that make up the special conflict division. Also known as... ACI. (Azeroth Conflict Investigation.)"
tropic trail
Yikes
Shaw would love that though
Genn the crazy detective that was removed from the case because he got too involved with trying to bring justice.
cyan prairie
Genn the police dog
tropic trail
LMFAO
cyan prairie
Varok Saurfang the Sheriff
tropic trail
😂
cyan prairie
Gallywix the azerite dealer
cloud iron
Jaina the pissed off wife who had her home trashed
cyan prairie
If Galakrond really appears in next expansion because he got resurrected
we will actually have a reason to go to Dragon Isles
and it will be a perfect combo between both Death-themed and Dragon-themed expansion
cyan prairie
weren't these leaks confirmed yesterday by someone?
tropic trail
All I care about are wow leaks
deep pawn
mostly, but we just get more and more confirmation of the weakauras stuff
tropic trail
But the art work looks cool
cloud iron
Heck, Lucio and Tracer have aged based on their art.
cloud iron
tbh, Im not a big fan of shooters, but I've always loved OW. I'd love a PVE campaign/focus to it
amber beacon
everyone thinks the new hero is echo. I'll laugh if it's soujourn
tropic trail
It’s kinda boring tho no more ptr stuff uploaded rip
I got excited with all the latest news
amber beacon
this close to blizzcon probably not
sullen dawn
How do people have names of potential new heroes btw? Always confused me about overwatch
amber beacon
Echo was announced last year at blizzcon
sullen dawn
People saying 'I hope the new hero is x'
amber beacon
Sojurn was featured in the archives mission in may
amber beacon
Well Jeff announced Echo at blizzcon last year when the cinematic ended. Saying she was coming but not right away
Sojurn was speciffically named during the archives mission as a character
sullen dawn
Oh so theres non playable characters in the story already?
amber beacon
Watch the ashe cinematic we meet echo for the first time 😄
sullen dawn
Ah ok
cloud iron
thing is, having OW2 Have a PVE focus means that when they introduce characters, there is more of a easy transition to add them to the PVP scenario. - As we will be able to 'play' the story, rather than watch/read it
amber beacon
The other person to watch is also andrea the head of voice acting for blizz she usually annoucnes all the prominent VAs and who they play 😄
tropic trail
Is it how they introduce new chars in mortal combat?
Or what’s that game Kill something lmfao idk I don’t play overwatch so I’m actually curious
amber beacon
Non of the wow leaks are confirmed
amber beacon
D4 is probably being kept tightly under wraps as the keynote presentation
mighty wolf
"wow leaks confirmed" confirmed
amber beacon
the OW2 leaks appear to be the press release kit got spilled early cos someone can't keep it in their pants
amber beacon
Nah all the OW2 images so far look like press release shots
cloud iron
Blizzard has been memeing us all along. We are getting a My Little Pony Expac
cyan prairie
Now Alliance, will get GHOST-HORSES!!!!
While Horde gets Ghost Dragon, Ghost Flying Wind Serpent and a Ghost Bat
sullen dawn
I hope we get some Arabic style gear in shadowlands
tropic trail
Undead super horses from Bolvar plz
amber beacon
Shadowlands is probably going to be greek
tropic trail
Not those dumb ones from original dk
amber beacon
Everything in the leaks looks to be of greek origin
sullen dawn
I think greek/Persian mix
cyan prairie
amber beacon
Ion has said he wanted to do greek inspired
cyan prairie
The best undead horse
sullen dawn
Cos theres no deserts in greece
cyan prairie
If that Shadowlands leak is real, the theme would fit
it looks like some ancient greece city
sullen dawn
Even though I agree a lot of it will be Greek themed, I think it'll be s mix with persian
It looks like alladin
sullen dawn
Which was a mix of cultures (persian/Indian etc..)
amber beacon
You know when they said we're going back to uldum in 8.3 the first thing that came to my head was the hearthstone song
tropic trail
Lmfao yal know that star wars meme “Don’t worry no-ones ever really gone” is what came back into mine
amber beacon
Still waiting for a 3 minute full version of that beauty
mighty wolf
And now we've got Northrend HS teaser 🤔
tropic trail
When shadowlands comes out “no-ones ever really gone” 😂
cyan prairie
8.2.5 Varok Saurfang is dead... we will all miss him
9.0 Guess who's back?
sullen dawn
Arthas?
deep pawn
One of the earliest shadowlands had Calia and Jaina looking for his spirit
Calia is horde after all now
jade basalt
@dense plover Agreed. Hearthstone-Gadgetzan would just be great in WoW as well. Technically they kind of canonized it with Traveler (by acknowledging it is supposed to be a giant sprawling city etc.).
tropic trail
So won’t light undead be horde
cyan prairie
If Bolvar comes back - you think as an ally, or as an enemy?
tropic trail
Or are they neutral
cyan prairie
Light Undead appeared in Blizz's april fools post
storm marsh
wowhead's
cyan prairie
making them hard to believe to become playable at all
dense plover
I don’t think light undead is happening
tropic trail
They don’t have to be playable for them to be part of the game tho they can just be npcs
It’s not likely they would come out lmfao
But if they were to come out would they in the middle or horde
sullen dawn
I hope redeemed are alliance not horde
Unless it doesn't matter due to faction restrictions being lifted
*if
cyan prairie
The faction restrictions need to be lifted, if we want to stop reading cryposts how broken Horde racials are
Both sides could get the same races
everyone would be able to choose what they want
i liked the idea of faction restrictions being only in Warmode
Ehh... just 3 more days and we'll know everything
sullen dawn
Yeh more distinction between warmode on and off would be cool too
Like no flying in warmode but you get it start of expansion otherwise
cyan prairie
+1
sullen dawn
Keeps everyone happy
cyan prairie
Flying makes warmode a gankmode
sullen dawn
Yeh it was really fun until 8.2
8.1 warmode assaults was some of the most fun content all expansion imo
sullen dawn
Yeh :D
sullen dawn
People were actually kinda roleplaying too
Like hunting down horde or alliance with pure hate hah
cyan prairie
and it was much more fun than BGs
sullen dawn
Felt like an actual war
sullen dawn
My fear is warmode gets left behind in 9.0
cyan prairie
I mean they should remove the rewards for using warmode
to not make anyone feels worse with PvP off
sullen dawn
Unfortunately I think they're needed mauldrak
cyan prairie
it's meant to be made for fun, not for grind
sullen dawn
Not enough people would keep wm on j think
tropic trail
If they removed the rewards I’d never do pvp
sullen dawn
Instead of bonuses it could have a separate progression system
cyan prairie
i never complained about WPvP, and if they took my 10% buff i'd still keep it enabled
cyan prairie
yeah, unfortunately
sullen dawn
Wpvp would half its user base if rewards went
tropic trail
Yeah I mean I only do pvp so I get stuff I don’t do it because I enjoy ruining someone’s good time when They are trying to herb in peace lol
Not saying yal do that but xD
cyan prairie
i enjoyed alliance ragewhispering me back in legion
i even made friends with some of them 😄
so let's say we defeat the forces of death in the next expansion (if it is a Shadowlands expansion)
what would you expect after that?
sullen dawn
I enjoy it cos I grew up on ultima online
Where you had to keep you eyes on anyone you came across
austere gazelle
Azeroth birth
sullen dawn
Since if you died they could loot all your stuff
austere gazelle
hence world revamp
and taking the fight to the void lords
and the light crap wanting to convert everyone
sullen dawn
10.0/11.0 for that engal
My guess is shadowlands -> reorigination (revamp) -> light vs void
white quartz
Totally possible atm
tropic trail
Light vs void would be interesting if we were helping them both
sullen dawn
I think the way wow will eventually end up is
You can choose one of the 6 forces to align with
sullen dawn
Death,life,order,chaos,light,void
The story seems to ultimately be going towards the big game between those 6 forces
obtuse vine
cyan prairie
Still lacks Vol'jin
And Bobsalami
BTW found the 100% confirmed leak i had before the prepatch started for BfA
cyan prairie
I have an even worse one
vernal juniper
read several leaks, the 3 month old on reddit is very reasonable and seems legit
several fact described 3 months ago, happened only in this month
cyan prairie
yeah forgot the hair
tropic trail
and shoulders!
unborn glacier
Welp, if 9.0 is LK related, PLEASE BLIZZ... Do NOT make his a good guy.
cyan prairie
How many Death-related people we met were good so far? Bwonsamdi and.... and that's it?
oak wraith
He's not exactly good 😛
unborn glacier
Bolvar needs to be evil
cyan prairie
Talanji says that the souls she hears when she's near Bwonsamdi are peaceful and seem to be happy.
unborn glacier
The thought of an anti-hero/good guy LK is just ridiculous.
cyan prairie
When she was in Icecrown she heard souls screaming in terror.
So i doubt they'll make Bolvar a good guy
HOWEVER... Someone has to make new Death Knights, and i don't think Blizz will repeat the first DK starting questline...
worn crown
I think ridiculous is to rehash an old enemy just for fan service. I do hope Bolvar is not simply Arthas/LK 2.0.
feral belfry
So anything new or we just still at the SL for sure is happening?
unborn glacier
Ex, Ner'Zhul still dwells within the helm.
feral belfry
Wait why would Bolvar be LK 2.0?
Is the whole point of him not existing in 9.0
to bring new army because of the depletion of our current armies as well as I assume a connection to the SL?
it seems that he would play a more bridging part then a whole main war against.
dense plover
Literally we already had a bad guy lich King
And bolvar isn’t a bad guy
Having him be the bad guy would not only be a shitty rehash of wrath, it would also be completely antithetical to his character
We already have wrath - we don’t need it again
jade basalt
Bolvar's a jerk now, but he's still technically working for the greater good. He has you genocide red dragons, manipulates you, threatens you and all life on the Broken Isles, but it's all for a good cause, to protect from the Legion invasion. That makes him more akin to Odyn and Illidan, aka an anti-hero, rather than a villain.
dense plover
^
This is what he should be
Anything else is just antithetical to what we have seen
jade basalt
He could be the counterpart to Sylvanas, who would actually be a villain.
unborn glacier
Its all for HIS good. The defeat of the Legion works in HIS interests. I dont think for one second Bolvar cares about any of us. He is the LK. The LK should never be a good guy. Its just ridiculous.
feral belfry
Yeah he is a hated figure but not that hated and he really does not hate anyone besides Sylvanas where she is fracking the balance. He would want to set the balance I would assume.
dense plover
That’s literally not how the LK works ranger
novel zodiac
the LK Widows may be nutting right now
dense plover
That was arthas
unborn glacier
Ner'Zhul still exists in the Helm
unborn glacier
Arthas was never able to remove him
feral belfry
but mrpeach his helmet is on too tight so clearly he is going to kill everyone 😛 Pretty much how badly reddit come down with their lore LOL
unborn glacier
Ner'Zhul was weak.
dense plover
Nerzhul didn’t gain strength
unborn glacier
X to Doubt
dense plover
Based on what?
unborn glacier
? Neither of us have proof. We're both speculating.
dense plover
Because we have evidence of bolvar LK doing stuff for the greater good
I’m not speculating
We have proof in game
unborn glacier
"Greater good" No, we had evidence of Bolvar using us to further his own goals, defeating the Legion was simply a bonus
dense plover
Ranger why do DKs raise the new horsemen during legion?
unborn glacier
To serve the LK
dense plover
Why does Bolvar help on the broken shore
unborn glacier
I have done the entire DK order hall
distant folio
Ranger do you have literally anything to back your claims up?
dense plover
No
They don’t
They’re making assumptions of intention based on what they want the story to be
Bolvar helps the DK hero defeat the legion because Bolvar has always been about saving azeroth
He put on the helm to save azeroth from the scourge
He helped fight back the legion at the temple of Sargeras so we could stop their invasion
novel zodiac
do people really wants a LK 2.0?, its the exact same shit, what is gonna change?
unborn glacier
And we learned he has not been the same since. He has been struggling againsst a dark force
dense plover
If he chose not to help he would’ve had more people to rez
What dark force? Based on what ranger?
jade basalt
I mean technically even Arthas!Lich King was acting for the greater good, as per Chronicle - killing literally everyone and raising them as undead was his twisted version of saving them.
Bolvar is still acting for the greater good as well, but he doesn't want to kill anyone. He is just defending against the Legion invasion, although he doesn't hesitate dirtying his hands, like almost any other anti-hero in Warcraf.
dense plover
Arthas believed he was acting for the greater good but he was a maniac
He was an antihero who went full villain
distant folio
Exactly. Arthas was insane. Bolvar isn't.
tropic trail
My opinion is biased, for sure, but if I had to pick who should be the villain and who should be the anti hero (Sylvanas and Bolvar) , I would rather have Bolvara being a villain and Sylvanas develop to an anti hero.
Bolvar is nice and all, but hes more like a mid tier Character for me , while wasting Sylvanas as a villain would be a let down to me
dense plover
The slaughter of the high elves
tropic trail
I personaly would prefer Boilvar dying at some point in the next xpac, like a heroic sacrifice
dense plover
I don’t think we will see Sylvanas as the main villain of 9.0
tropic trail
and Sylvanas taking his place
distant folio
wasting Sylvanas as a villai
?? she's always been a villain
dense plover
Fuck that
uncut vault
do people really wants a LK 2.0?, its the exact same shit, what is gonna change?
After BfA, this is exactly why I expect Bolvar to be a villain
distant folio
Fuck this lol no
dense plover
We don’t need lich Queen fanfic
dense plover
That’s shitty fucking story
And it’s also not what she wants
She literally hates the LK
Not only is that cliche it’s so far against her character
tropic trail
Saying Sylvanas was always a villain os objectively wrong . thats a fact. she become the villain with BfA and was never before one
dense plover
She would never put on the helm of domination
distant folio
Literally when has Sylvanas ever cared about anyone but herself? Now she's supposed to become an anti-hero and sacrifice herself and save everyone? That would be so againt her charater, I can't. And I say this as a Sylvanas fan.
dense plover
Well - not necessarily
She called for the retreat at the broken shore
She didn’t have to do that
distant folio
Well she needed the Horde, can't let everyone die
tropic trail
A Character caring only about herself is not making her a villain
distant folio
Strategic decision, not emotional
tropic trail
a character doing evil stuff is not making him a villain
tropic trail
the Story direction is what makes someone a villain
uncut vault
She has multiple passages in before the Storm showing genuine regret about voljins death and that all her actions in Legion were for the sake of saving the forsaken
distant folio
@tropic trail Did you forget the part where she says she literally wants to kill all life?
tropic trail
that part from BfA
dense plover
She wants to kill hope
tropic trail
yea
dense plover
Not the same thing
tropic trail
thats where she got a villain
dense plover
And based on datamined text from the raid
All of the stuff she has been doing is very anti hero
Screwing over the horde to save the planet
And destroy Nzoth
Assuming that’s legit
That she allied with Azshara to use the dagger
She’s still evil
But it’s not black and white
jade basalt
All villains can show emotions. Just because a villain shows emotions, even regret, does not mean they aren't a villain. Literally the biggest villains in all of Warcraft, even Kil'jaeden, Illidan, Arthas, and so on, have all shown human emotions - they're still villain. Sylvanas has been a villain since Vanilla (or WC3 I guess), but she's still able to show emotions sometimes.
tropic trail
thats wrong
distant folio
Yeah basically
uncut vault
She literally objectively has not been a villain
uncut vault
Villain doesn’t mean doing evil things
distant folio
^lol
tropic trail
someone can only be a villain if the story tells it that way. Basically when the world, or the players seeing a character that way
Sylvanas got a villain at BfA - was never before one
jade basalt
Yes... and the entire story around Sylvanas, since Vanilla, has been about her being the antagonist, she's the villain in every story involving her.
distant folio
Are you even serious? Cataclysm? Vanilla?
Every single story that Sylvanas is involved in, she is the villain.
So you are correct when you say that "someone can only be a villain if the story tells it that way", but the story has ALWAYS been that way
tropic trail
Sylvanas being a villain to 1 faction but not the other one (forsaken, horde) doesnt make her a real villain
distant folio
She was a villain to the Horde as well? The experiments she secretly did on Horde captives?
uncut vault
Cataclysm, where we explicitly quest alongside her and aid her goals
autumn dagger
bellulargaming has a good vid on sylvanas behaviour and how it changed from WotLK's ending and onwards
tropic trail
doing shady stuff is not what makes you into a villain . again
deep pawn
I hope sylv is trying to raise galakrond
distant folio
@uncut vault You do that in BFA too buddy, and she's still a villain
tropic trail
someone can only be a villain if the story makes you one. Which only happened in BfA
distant folio
No, the story already made her a villain in Vanilla, and in Cataclysm.
tropic trail
Nope
cyan prairie
I consider Genn a villain
tropic trail
disagree with this
distant folio
Do you remember literally any quest from Cataclysm or Vanilla on the Forsaken side?
tropic trail
ofc
distant folio
Or do you choose to ignore them?
uncut vault
Yes, all of which are you willingly working for her, as the player protagonist
tropic trail
I said it already . doing shady stuff is not what makes you a villain
distant folio
You are ALWAYS willingly working for people as the player. You also willingly work for her in BFA.
Just because the player does stuff with villains doesn't mean they are not villains.
You also worked for demons and Void beings and thieves.
uncut vault
Seeing as the player is literally a protagonist, yes it does
tropic trail
Villains are villains when they are being treated that way from the Story direction
deep pawn
Hell, sylv may be right but doing bad things
tropic trail
If you have someone in your faction, like a leader, doing evil/shady stuff but is not going to be judged at the end of the story/xpac
hes not a villain
distant folio
@uncut vault So you're saying if the player does a quest for someone, then this someone is not a villain?
autumn dagger
what term do you prefer then, elf?
cyan prairie
So if alliance players helped Genn does it make them a villain?
uncut vault
When you do quests for them and can openly support them for fifteen years, yes
When they are portrayed to one half of the playerbase as someone you can ally with and serve, yes
distant folio
No, that makes them a protagonist. A protagonist can be a villain.
cyan prairie
Both factions are evil. The protagonist tries to be better than the rest of his side, by taking care of the world.
We don't kill our enemies, just because they are our enemies, but because we have a reason for it.
distant folio
@tropic trail The entire story direction in Cataclysm was about Sylvanas doing evil things and being shunned by the rest of the Horde. And then she keeps doing her evil things in secret while the orcs put her under surveillance, AND even Neutral factions too. Even in Vanilla the Forsaken were already put aside because of what they were doing.
cyan prairie
And by that, how many times our enemies became our friends, due to greater threat?
uncut vault
Except she literally wasn’t shunned by the horde in MoP, WoD, Legion, or 90% of BfA
tropic trail
Yes, did she got judged at the end?
did she become a raid boss or was kciked out from the Horde?
no?
well not a villain
distant folio
That doesn't mean she's not a villain OMG
cyan prairie
She was rejected by most of the Horde, only her loyalists were happy with serving her
tropic trail
You are saying Sylvanas was always a villain because she did evil and shady stuff
thats wrong
distant folio
a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot.
a bad person who harms other people or breaks the law:
a character in a book, play, film, etc. who harms other people:
something or someone considered harmful or dangerous:
tropic trail
you are not instantly an villain for doing evil stuff
cyan prairie
I think we can't call her a villain until her story ends.
uncut vault
If your definition of villain is “person who does bad thing and someone else dislikes it”, Bolvar is a villain, as is Genn
deep pawn
We are murder hobos, we're bigger villains
distant folio
Sylvanas corresponds literally every single definition of the word "villain". You two are just making up non-existent criteria to twist her into not being a villain.
Yes, you can decide to help her. This doesn't mean she's not a villain.
deep pawn
She's an antagonist, slightly different
uncut vault
Cool, so you think Bolvar is a villain, yes?
distant folio
Bolvar is a quasi-villain, i.e he's a villain that works for the greater good: an anti-hero.
So, yes.
tropic trail
A Villain is only a Villain if he/she is being treated that way
and that happened only in BfA
distant folio
Sylvanas has always been treated that way.
tropic trail
you can discuss long as you want about it
distant folio
People were nice to Sylvanas in vanilla? in cataclysm?
cyan prairie
The only real villain of BfA is N'zoth so far
tropic trail
Yes?
deep pawn
Tyrande will be a raid boss before sylv
tropic trail
Thrall?
cyan prairie
and G'huun
tropic trail
Thrall literally defended Sylvanas after the Wrathgate
distant folio
Lmao reminder that Thrall literally did NOT want to ally with the Forsaken, he HAD to.
tropic trail
haha
distant folio
Because he needed allies in the Eastern Kingdoms, as per Chronicle
tropic trail
I know that very well
zealous basalt
What is the topic today
tropic trail
We dont need to continue arguing about that. I think Mind and Starseeker are bouth wrong , I explained why .
Someone is only a villain if hes being treated that way, as I said , that happened only in BfA
deep pawn
Regardless, be hyped to see sylv attack bolvar to open the way to the shadowlands. Will be a hype cinematic
tropic trail
in fact, Sylvanas was in vanilla - wrath a generic anti hero
cyan prairie
Imagine a cinematic:
Sylvanas tries to fight Bolvar
Bolvar doesn't want to
She asks him why
He replies "only 15% Warmode buff this week, Blizzard plz help me"
tropic trail
someone who wanted to get his revenge no matter for what cost, but also would safe the world by killing this person (arthas)
distant folio
An anti-hero does bad things for good. Sylvanas is not trying to do good, it was always for HER.
cyan prairie
We don't know why she wants to empower Mueh'zala (probably him) yet
distant folio
Illidan did a ton of bad things, but ultimately it was only in his obsession to save Azeroth.
tropic trail
many, maany anti heros doing bad things that are for the greater good because of selfish reasons
like revenge
cyan prairie
If the light can't defeat the Void, maybe the death can
distant folio
Sylvanas is not trying to save shit, she was just pissed at Arthas so she did everything to kill him. That's not good intentions, it's purely personal revenge.
cyan prairie
it would explain why the Void is so afraid of her
jade basalt
Let me tell you one thing: nothing that Sylvanas has done in Battle for Azeroth, is different than what she's done before.
Manipulating people? She did that before.
Raising people? She did that before.
Plaguing people? She did that before.
Invading other races' territories? She did that before.
Destroying a city? She did that before.
The only difference is that, as Warchief, she can do it on an even bigger scale than before.
So if you consider her a villain in BFA, even before Saurfang gave her the boot, then she was already a villain back then.
The entire appeal of Sylvanas is that she's a villain. In fact the Forsaken were literally created to allow playable bad guys, which they of course put in the Horde, which Blizzard saw as the bad guys. This is all part of John Staats' book on the creation of World of Warcraft.
distant folio
^Sylvanas' actions are literally not ONE BIT different to what she's ever done before
tropic trail
Thats right, the story direction is that changed
distant folio
Nothing has changed.
tropic trail
the Story did not treated her as a villain before BfA
distant folio
Yeah it did.
distant folio
Yeah, she was a villain part of the Horde.
tropic trail
she was the evil part of the horde
distant folio
Yeah we know she is evil.
cyan prairie
let me explain something
In BfA she's causing as much death as possible, because she has some reason to do it
tropic trail
she become the villain only in bfa, because this is where the Horde started to treat her as such
cyan prairie
If it all ends up with us saving Azeroth, will she still be considered a villain?
zealous basalt
Sylvanas talk
distant folio
The Horde always treated her like shit. It's always purely been an alliance of convenience, not trust, she said it herself.
cyan prairie
Maybe N'zoth isn't as dangerous as something else coming for us
distant folio
Like that's literally the reason they even joined the Horde.
cyan prairie
They joined the Horde, because alliance are a bunch of racist dicks
That play the "good" faction
tropic trail
yes and this didnt make her a villain. People dont trusting her is a difference to ppl chasing her and want her to kill and kick off from the Horde
distant folio
She didn't suddenly become a villain in BFA. She's been doing the EXACT same things in BFA that she did before.
The Horde tried to stop her in Cataclysm, so she stopped, and did her things secretly. Then in BFA she stopped being secretive because she was Warchief, so the Horde tried to stop her again.
zealous basalt
So what's the argument?
distant folio
Tilted is saying Sylvanas just suddenly became villain in BFA, and that she was not a villain before 😂
tropic trail
the argument is by Starseeker that Sylvanas was always a villain, which is technically wrong
because she become one in BfA
zealous basalt
Dark antihero might be a better word than villain
distant folio
There's nothing she's done in BFA that she hadn't done before. She was always a villain.
tropic trail
Starseeker argues that Sylvanas did always evil stuff - which is right - and this did make her a villain
which was not the case
zealous basalt
... Why don't we
distant folio
She was always a villain. Even the Horde tried to stop her before.
zealous basalt
All stop and
cyan prairie
I see that no matter what i say, these two have a duel now
tropic trail
it doesnt matter that she did exactly the same stuffin BfA as she did always before
what matters is
distant folio
yes it does
zealous basalt
Go back to the definition of Villain
tropic trail
that the people around her judged her as a villain only in BfA
deep pawn
Like she said in cata, the difference is, she was serving the horde
autumn dagger
i think the matter here is the sense of scale y'all giving to the word villain
tropic trail
exactly
cyan prairie
did anyone here
read what i kept spamming here
while these 2 had an argument duel?
zealous basalt
cyan prairie
If what she does ends up with us actually SAVING the world, i don't think we should call her a villain.
Her story didn't end yet.
We don't know WHY The Void was afraid of her.
distant folio
Sylvanas became the MAIN ANTAGONIST in BFA. But she was always a villain.
cyan prairie
Ah, shit... here we go again...
tropic trail
cyan prairie
N'zoth is the main antagonist
distant folio
Just clarifying. According to every single definition of the word villain, she is a villain. Literally, look it up. However, before BFA, she wasn't the main antagonist, she was just a side-antagonist.
BFA put her on the spotlight.
deep pawn
If sylv is a villain, so is greymane and tyrande
distant folio
Are you seriously comparing Tyrande to Sylvanas...?
cyan prairie
Ok, why you consider what she did evil? Do you know why she did it? Just to be evil, of to maybe let us SEE HOW THE STORY GOES ON FROM NOW?
zealous basalt
cyan prairie
This argument doesn't lead anywhere...
tropic trail
I mean, I wont agree with you at all
distant folio
Tyrande has not done anything evil so far.
autumn dagger
let's say she had antagonistic behaviours in previous expansions and became the villan in BFA
tropic trail
I said already everything, not gonna repeat myself all the time and be trapped in the PARADOX
distant folio
She's nowhere near Sylvanas.
cyan prairie
She abandaoned her people cuz her husband got rekt
autumn dagger
because her antagonistic behaviours drove the plot forward
deep pawn
She's still gonna die before sylv
distant folio
I can't believe this server lmao, pople are literally saying Tyrande is as much a villain as Sylvanas, this is ridiculous. Talk about dying on a hill...
cyan prairie
Guys, shut up for one moment and let me say something
tropic trail
I didnt said that -
deep pawn
When tyrande is the reason the peace ends don't cry
tropic trail
all I said is, I dont agree with Sylvanas being a villain since vanilla
and I wont change my mind on it
distant folio
a villain, not the villain, that's BFA
autumn dagger
maybe a side quest villain
cyan prairie
Until the story ends, we can't say WHO is the VILLAIN here. Magni can become a Villain at any moment if we find out all he did was to empower N'zoth, and Sylvanas can become a HERO when we find out ALL SHE DID was to SAVE Azeroth.
distant folio
Yeah but we're talking about SO FAR you peanut.
cyan prairie
It's called a "PLOT TWIST"
autumn dagger
that doesn't mean she was a villain at some point
distant folio
A plot twist that does not exist yet...?
autumn dagger
*wasn't
distant folio
^
autumn dagger
even if she did it for the right reasons, her actions could be considered evil and moved the plot forward, therefore she was a villain for a while even if she ends up losing that "title" later on
deep pawn
Antagonist, not villain.
cyan prairie
Ok let's say - in the Shadowlands there's some serious shit going on, and we can only stop it by causing mass death so we can get an army there
and if we won't even more of us will die without any hope left
modest temple
ive always considered slyv and the forsaken as villains. but i started this alliance side in vanilla, im sure i had some false illusions about them. but they do willingly turn against everything good and create monsters and bioweapons designed to kill living ppl
until golden didnt like that and changed them to fit her new story she wanted to write
autumn dagger
yeah still, killing ppl is kinda wrong if you ask me so, by being a major evil doer, she became the villain of this expansion
deep pawn
Living next to the scarlet crusade tends to make you wary of humans
autumn dagger
maybe she'll be the hero of the next one
cyan prairie
Humans don't deserve respect after Aedalas...
autumn dagger
or anti-hero
modest temple
making monsters out of parts of humans? they just continued the practices of the scourge under new management and said they didnt want to kill "eeeeveryone" so the orcs let them in
but it turns out slyv did
distant folio
Yeah clearly they're good guys
modest temple
i like the shade they had
autumn dagger
but i also think that pre-WotLK sylv and post Icecrown Sylv are two different ppl
modest temple
but she had villain stamped on her face all of wow for me, so i dont see any of this as much of a stretch. and thinking about it, i can see why golden had to write the forsaken in a new light, to give them a reason to separate them from slyv when she leaves the horde so they can stay a player race.
autumn dagger
bc her motivations radically changed
modest temple
yeah... well she died and saw -nothing-
cyan prairie
if her motivations changed, she actually had to see something
tropic trail
I don’t even care about her anymore tbh
modest temple
i can see her being scared of that and her cata goals made sense... this working for someone else thing doesnt
well the book said she saw nothing
autumn dagger
she saw eternal pain, which scared her out of her mind, drove her to make pacts, rise new forsaken for the sake of using them as shields to prevent her from dying for real and going back to that
cyan prairie
In BfA she serves something for a reason unknown to us yet, so all she does still can't be explained.
modest temple
i wonder if she isnt considering letting azeroth die, then trying to resurrect it as an undead titan. it would probably have a cascade effect. "if i cant be happy, no one can be. make them all undead!"
tropic trail
What
tropic trail
An undead titan
modest temple
just an idea
cyan prairie
If Sylvanas wanted to destroy Azeroth, she would kill Magni first
tropic trail
LMFAO
cyan prairie
and for some reason it isn't her goal
modest temple
then she gets to look at magni and say "look. i did what you asked. she isnt dying anymore. i helped"
tropic trail
“I’m dying Champion”
cyan prairie
That speculation of her raising a titan is just as dumb as that whole argument
modest temple
its literally an idea i had. just my own shit
tropic trail
If she saw nothing why would she want to kill everyone and put them through that
What a hoe
cyan prairie
Nobody knows what's her motivation, yet everyone says that it's entirely evil
modest temple
i dont think it is, at least not in her mind
cyan prairie
She serves someone, and now what? Is that everything we need to know? No
tropic trail
She totaly serves no one then herself
autumn dagger
it's not her motivations that are EVIL, but the actions she takes to ensure them are
uncut vault
Pretty sure the point is that she doesnt want people to go through that
hence all the raising
and the attempt to get infinite valkyr to give undead immortality
modest temple
i always assumed that only the undead or really cursed ppl see the darkness
cyan prairie
She serves the "Hungering Darkness" as she mentioned in the loyalist cutscene.
modest temple
cause their souls are cursed
tropic trail
remember guys, dont make the same mistake like with Azshara. Sylvanas is not serving anyone , she most likely did a bargain with this "hungering darkness" and probably already plans to usurp it
uncut vault
that was the case, until BfA, where we now have people like Derek and paladins in Drustvar also seeing darkness
tropic trail
since shes all about "mastering death"
autumn dagger
at this point sylv is all about serving herself tho
valid tundra
What did Sylvanas even do that was bad though??
modest temple
more bs ideas. there is a balance, souls are finite. maybe the we have reincarnations. souls go to the shadowlands then come back out as someone new. if too many souls go in, the balance is tipping. an idea from what bwomsamdi had to say about slyv.
autumn dagger
if she DID plan it, wrathgate, the invasion of gilneas, rising horde warriors during the battle for lordaeron
feral belfry
So is a Cata 2.0 still possible to any degree now especially with the higher chance of the Shadowlands or do you think that might not happen till 10+ still?
modest temple
banshees are vengeful angry spirits of someone who was wronged in their death, correct? i feel like i remember something in wc3 or wow mentioning that. mostly talking about other banshees... but slyv is also one, and she just found her corpse and possessed it. i dont think she has things like remorse or .... postitive feelings at all. no morals. the negative magic of undeath doesnt allow for positive emotions. unless you were a really strong of will person, like some rare cases of new forsaken, you go negative. its how i right off the atrocities some of them do. just me
tropic trail
I think its gonna be more like a Wotlk 2.,0 then a Cata 2.0
feral belfry
um
not sure why you think wrath anything is happening
Cata 2.0 actually has some sense because of the shadowlands and they might work on the world itself and if there is mirroring, etc
tropic trail
because we have ppl literal confirming that a revamp will happen in nordend
ppl from blizzcon
feral belfry
But there is no wrath not sure why people think this
the world story is so stale and old and so content specific 😦
tropic trail
@modest temple you are right but also wrong. Its right that Banshees do feel most of the time anger, since they are angry spirits
but they can feel positives feelings, as stated in some novels about Sylvanas (arthas rise of the lich king, War Crimes)
but they dont hold long
modest temple
ok
autumn dagger
Sylv does feel remorse and positive stuff every now and then
modest temple
not long enough for it to give her pause, i would say
feral belfry
In my books Northrend will be used for 9.0 content into the expansion but not the expansion. They need gateways I assume.
unborn glacier
Incorrect. I cite, Warcrimes.
autumn dagger
Yeah, not long enough tho
feral belfry
But I can't see Northrend be the expansion lol
tropic trail
Like Sylvanas did feel really good and happy when she had her time with Vereesa
but then
unborn glacier
Sylvanas felt genuine joy and happiness.
tropic trail
that hurted her
unborn glacier
When Vereesa betrayed her and abandoned her, it wounded Sylvanas deeply.
Because she actually felt happy.
It hurt so much more.
modest temple
join me in undeath, it wont hurt as much
tropic trail
well kinda yes
she didnt said it to vereesa
but she thought about exactly this
because the forsaken would not accept a living person in their ranks
unborn glacier
Funny thing is, Sylvanas DIDNT want to kill and raise Vereesa, but she was worried her people would never accept the leadership of a living person
upper remnant
This was in their online store
normal niche
holy shit, i thought this was fake
calm plank
yeah like
unless if some guy has been working on it for months/years then it's probably true
pulsar iris
yeh
pulsar iris
we cant confirm shit, but it is pretty damn safe to assume he will get new model and this to be real
calm plank
if this is real then it's guaranted that bolvar is gonna get a new model
dense plover
It’s real
Definitely guaranteed
It’s a cinematic still probably
Or art inspired by a cinematic
Not necessarily a still
calm plank
well in that case we're in for a really cool cinematic
tho it's a bit of a shame that it got leaked like that
signal bone
so what leak seems the most likely now?
any that contained bastion / shadowlands / bolvar?
dense plover
Tbh it’s still not clear
The bolvar build up is probably in 8.3 or 8.3.5 and is post raid
It’s really hard to say
I think the redone Northrend stuff is probably wrong
We might get a scenario or something
Specifically of ice crown
But redoing Northrend and keeping it feeling right would be very hard
tropic trail
@dense plover Didn't yo usay you'd eat your chair or something?
dense plover
No I don’t believe so
calm plank
yeah the redoing northrend seems unlikely
unborn glacier
If they could pull it off tho, a revamped Northrend would be amazing
calm plank
maybe they'll update the area around ICC?
dense plover
The problem is how do you redo Northrend while keeping enough of what it used to look like
It has to be fully new
unborn glacier
Icecrown Glacier is melting, so a revamp showing the consequences of that would be so cool
dense plover
But also remind you of the old one
It would be nice
But it’s also playing with Fire
calm plank
hehe
dense plover
They either have to nail it
unborn glacier
It'd still be awesome
dense plover
Or it’s gonna upset everyone
Much much safer to have new zones
Also considering all this, new class is a bit murky now
I’m gonna say it’s probably a paragon concept and we just get that and races getting new class combos
We will see in less than a week
Friday
Possibly Thursday if it actually leaks
lean yew
whats the collection edition leak people keep talking about
dense plover
Bullshit
lean yew
but the bolvar image is real?
dense plover
Yes
lean yew
I didnt think it was fake
dense plover
It was from a blizzard affiliate site
dense plover
The collection edition thing has no source
lean yew
yall are so full of shit
white quartz
It most certainly is not easy
dense plover
And doesn’t have any image
dense plover
And doesn’t line up with the people who leaked the thing it’s based on
white quartz
Whoever said it didnt take time is an idiot
dense plover
The internet has done that before
lean yew
ah okay
dense plover
It can take time and be fake
It wasn’t
But that has happened
Smash leaks generally
Some people spent like 20 hours making a legit looking grinch leak
And a couple of actual legit looking ones too
zealous basalt
No
unborn glacier
There was a "leaked" promotional piece recently about Dark Rangers. I can't find it. I wish it were true.
lean yew
I wanna buy stuff from the store
but i also want to wait until after blizzcon announcements
so I can buy a full order
I like n'zoth but im not sure I love this shit
shirt*
lean yew
yeah that looks fake
could be wrong tho lol
also - it doesn't say pre-purchase and unlock dark ranger early, it says unlock the dark ranger
which would be odd wording
pulsar iris
even if they redo northrend, it probably would be a max level zone with a zidormi around
stuck mica
That N'zoth shirt literally has Megadeth's font ripped off.
lean yew
i hate that the corruptor is so small
and why is there no picture of him on it
it's disappointing
I wanted more tentacles
stuck mica
On a side note, I really don't know what's up with everyone ripping off 80s metal band logos nowadays.
normal niche
also
unborn glacier
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2517338-World-of-Warcraft-Lament-of-the-Queen This one seems so cool, but with that Bolvar still being all but confirmed, I'm sad this one is likely fake.
normal niche
with the new expansion pack.
they could use, the chance to
revamp old stuff, well likely northrened.
but yeah
tropic trail
"lament of the queen" is a really shitty name for an xpac
dense plover
^
normal niche
I know blizzard wouldn't go that low, with an expac pack name.
I want Into the shadowlands.
that's badass
dense plover
It’s too long
normal niche
Wrath of the Lich King was long tho.
dense plover
And they don’t start expac names with the generally
Burning Crusade possibly being an exception
That’s the only one
Shadowlands alone is far more likely title-scheme wise
normal niche
well
dense plover
I could see that, Dragon Isles
normal niche
we did get an expansion pack named Legion.
dense plover
Yes
Because it’s one word
One word ones are sorta common we have had 2 now?
Cataclysm, Legion
dense plover
The fire DK thing is fake
Guy made it for a mock up
And someone screencapped part of it
To make a fake leak
I still think paragon is the path forward
Allows for stuff that carries forward
tropic trail
we will get more ap lol
tropic trail
^
normal niche
😢 It's not, bad but damn
dense plover
The necklace sucked
Weapons were fun
Putting points in things is fun
Cloak is probably better than neck and that’s only for the patch
normal niche
Yeah, I agree I'll give the artifact weapons a win on this
dense plover
Because purchasing upgrades is a dopamine thing
normal niche
but not the neck
dense plover
Bfa has too much stick and not enough carrot
And legion had too much carrot and then when they gave us less people got upset
They need a middle ground
modest temple
A reddit "leak" that got deleted but mmoc peeps saw it, Crown of Damnation. It has us enter the roots of Vordrassil and purge yoggs corruption for a raid. I want this one only because i also came up with that concept during wrath and have wanted it ever since. There's even a perfect place in Grizzlemaw to place the instance portal. Also has decent exp ideas.
pulsar iris
also bearfolk allied race for that one thing you said above
modest temple
i can dig it
modest temple
yes. that roots of the tree was just ... my heart. i even drew up concepts a long ass time ago.
that means it will never be real tho
modest temple
idk
novel zodiac
i like this leak
zealous basalt
Lol
elder otter
novel zodiac
god i really hope this is a decoy
elder otter
Doubtful at this point.
uncut vault
They didn’t even try to get the right font to make it convincing
tropic trail
yep that was what i was looking at
the character name font looks off
and well also the action bars
forest sphinx
What a way to end my birthday ❤
cyan prairie
Btw just realised that Bolvar's hammer looks like the Hammer Taelia uses, while the rear part of it kinda looks like top of Icecrown
uncut vault
not really sure why that keeps popping up, its just a hammer lol
Taelias is literally just a stone block
cyan prairie
Ppl keep talking about his weapon, because it was the most iconic part of LK
And a hammer is an interesting choice, since his daugther uses a hammer too
I think ppl wouldn't be so interested in his weapon, if it was an axe
uncut vault
I think theyd be moreso, seeing as shadowmourne was a thing
deep pawn
man, I can't wait to find out if they're doing Tinkers, 4th specs, or something else.
I'd be largely disappointed if it's Dark Ranger or nothing new
tropic trail
Dark Rangers shouldnt be an actual class it should just be a spec
warm shore
real talk if we could get a hunter spec to use mana again, that would be pretty cool
more specs for all classes would be nice too
austere gazelle
it's interesting knowing he is half fire half frosty, the hammer is also used to forge things with fire, maybe he transforms the souls he get by forging them differently or some crap like that
deep pawn
I want Shaman Tank, Ranged Paladin, turn Unholy Ranged and make Cinder a 2handed spec, Ranged Monk dps, and melee mage.
Shield DPS warrior would be sweet too. As a unique spec it wouldn't be tied to protection
vernal juniper
do you think is more easy to make a new class with 3 specs or add 12 new spec to old 12 classes? And which one create more hype?
That's answer to the question about "new spec for everyone"
austere gazelle
new spec for everyone = insane balance to do
which can be dangerous cause it'll be make or break. I don't want to be seduced by a spec and be nerfed to the ground one patch later and switching to another one ( or class ) because it became crappy
deep pawn
I don't think they'd add 12 specs
3-5 at most
Like some classes just have no room really.
strange falcon
cough druid cough
uncut vault
Im in a lucky position to be a forsaken player and a gnome player, so whatever new class we get, I'll be pleased lol
vernal juniper
even adding a spec to some classes is not an option, it will create an infinite amount of whine to the ones who gets nothing
they can add 1 spec to each class BUT they needs to remove 1 spec to many classes
and thats create whine too
that's why you probably never get a new spec
deep pawn
And ranged have whined they have not had a new spec ever
Didn't stop monks or demon hunters
I see no difference to adding specs to existing classes vs 3 specs as a new class
vernal juniper
adding 12 specs (that you can also consider as new 4 classes with 3 specs for math) is 4 times harder than add 1 class with 3 specs or 6 times harder than a class with 2 specs (dh), and this is only mathematical.
Now about the lore, you need to explain how you will add 12 specs in to 12 classes and you need to make sense.
deep pawn
That I why if they do it, it'd only be 3-5.
vernal juniper
They probably can't do it, imagine the whine that it will create for the one who get nothing
they need to do something new for everyone or for noone
deep pawn
That's a bullcrap reason like I explained. New classes having only melee made ranged players whine, didn't stop blizzard. As easy as it is to make a new character, having the new specs spread along a few existing classes is no different than 3 specs in a new class
vernal juniper
@tropic tendon for you is a bullcrap for me make sense. I'm not telling it will never happen but is more probable they will add a new class than few-up-to-12 specs
yeah the new class will probably ranged and mail
deep pawn
Shaman tank and a dark ranger hunter would solve mails issues
strange falcon
ironically shamans in vanilla were designed to have enhancement as a tank spec,but it didnt work
so it wouldnt be that
farfetched
vernal juniper
yeah it will be necromancer/naga/thinker
deep pawn
Only class I see with ranged, mail, and a tank or healer spec would be tinkers
vernal juniper
for the lore
strange falcon
naga is a class?
vernal juniper
they can be with the azshara lore after 8.3
strange falcon
also naga have been talked about since vanilla like ogres,even by the devs themselves,with the current limitations,they are way too much damn work to put as playable
for the simple fact they have no legs
vernal juniper
everything can be a class if they decide to make it
strange falcon
and if you go for the "they are High elves out of combat like worgen
people will go mental and literally explode
vernal juniper
I'm talking about the lore poin of view on 8.3 8.25
thats the 3 that make more sense to me
spammer xD
strange falcon
lore can be retconned,and they have done so many MANY MANY times
what have infinitely more weight is the limitations of the engine and the gameplay
vernal juniper
they were talking in amazing imrpvment for 9.0 this year refering to "next expantion"
so
uncut vault
Dark ranger has the potential to have a heal spec as well, and also cover the ranged mail spec aspect. Both have foreshadowing for their involvement next xpac, so it really is up in the air
vernal juniper
I still believe in something void/necro/death related thing
tropic tendon
Wha?
delicate umbra
