and they were great
#beta-ptr-spoilers
long blade
Yea like that. But it’s all a mix. On it’s own it’s good but imagine, each trait, Azerite piece trait and talent you choose had more synergy
dense plover
they need a mix between actives like essence system and the artifact tree
long blade
And you could have more builds per spec than just one or two which is the case right now. One build dominates PVE and one PVP
dense plover
i like the concept of choosing my active
but it takes so long to get minor traits
and the rewards between levels are lackluster
so having a reward every level would be good
maybe a sort of choose 1 from 3
where by max you have everything
then when they add more, its things like, universal traits
like with the concordance thing
long blade
Or maybe a way that each level gives you points to allocate on each trait
You can put them where you want
dense plover
they need to add a classic-style talent tree
that they can expand on
and that stays through the expacs
long blade
It gives you a more rpg aspect and player choice
dense plover
because they clearly dont want to add cata-style talents
which btw, we need a new row REAL bad
signal bone
I agree with you peach
new talent row
PoE style tree in addition
that grows every expac
doesn't have to be huge
not sure if it would be class / spec specific, or maybe just general utility or role-based
signal bone
the spec section is the current talents we have now though
maybe have all classes have all abilities, and you choose talents to expand a certain playstyle
like all death knights get UH abilities, but have to spec to make UH good
probably too much for Blizz
long blade
Yeah but it’s better when each spec is more unique to the others
Idk about that, I feel like only a few spells should be baseline for all specs but each spec needs it own flavor
signal bone
I really hope they reverse the GCD changes
I don't understand what the point of that was
I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't want them to add more class-specific stuff
I'd rather they stuck with the 36 classes style, not 12
Partly because I feel like their solution is just reversing the prune and that's it
like hunters getting back eyes of the beast or whatever is not going to improve the MM playstyle
long blade
Well that’s what I meant with more flavor. Each spec is unique and good on its own
It’s not one spec dominating over the other two.
It’s a mix of each spec being strong and being different from the others.
Class and specs is one of the major reason wow is awesome, you got choices, you can either be a frost dk that chops everyone down with ice and cold or an unholy dk that rises a ghoul or many and destroys his target
I wouldn’t wanna see a blood dk with howling blast or rise abom
I rather see unique spells for it. Aside from basic ones all 3 get
dense plover
i totally see the point of the GCD changes
we just havent seen the benefit on our side
the GCD changes showed what buttons dont actually do anything
we saw a few of these changes where buff abilities were shifted and do damage or where damage abilties gained a limited duration buff
i think we will see a lot of changes that reflect this in 9.0
sullen dawn
Yeh I think the gdc changes were a primer for future designs
Tbh I kinda like them, they make it much easier to play the game on a controller
That said, a lot of specs do feel a bit slow
Outlaw rogue is in a good place tempo/complexity wise
Ret paladin feels very slow, and the big juicy hits dont feel juicy enough to warrant the slow pace
signal bone
It's particularly bad for extremely CD based specs like UH
pair that with a generally slow playstyle, low mobility, and pets / diseases / passives being a large part of your damage
id
k
it's fine for some specs, some suffer a lot
dense plover
thats the point tho
helps them find the actual problem
instead of bandaids on bandaids
round lake
I actually cant see them adding a class, Im expecting reworks
autumn stirrup
well i believe they will
i think theres a real leak in mmo champ but thats what i think anyway
round lake
nah i dont think any of those leaks are right at this time
if anything this week we will see and influx of em
novel zodiac
what do you guys want the next expansion to bring?
autumn stirrup
i mean some guy so far has revealed 8.2.5 and 8.3 before we even got cinematics and info
this week we'll see blizzcon schedule and maybe something wednesday from what i read.
terse patrol
All the “leaks” so far have been failures
dense plover
^
terse patrol
“But they got <this> right!” “Yeah, but they also said <ten other things that didn’t happen>.”
It’s interesting how all these conflicting leaks all have so many similarities. It’s almost like they’re based off the wishes of the community or expectations for the plot. Or cynical imaginings of how Blizzard could ruin the story more.
@dense plover
dense plover
or based on reasonable predictions before they go off the rails
cyan prairie
What's wrong with the story? Alliance lost the war when Blizz said that none of The sides will win or lose... I don't see anything wrong about it /s
uncut vault
pretty sure the alliance isnt the one thats lost three faction leaders in the span of two patches
terse patrol
Eh, the Alliance got the genocide stick so I say we’re even. @uncut vault
And the Horde seems like they’re getting the night elf undead just to spite us.
autumn stirrup
Heres a link for you for, lostsoup made a post with a collection of his statements and 8.2.5 and 8.3 and 9.0
His post should be In the middle
He said what would happen in 8.2.5 before cinematic come out, said what 8.3 was about before it got announced and said video of ion announcing would be released next week which it did.
uncut vault
while I dont necessarily doubt that he leaked it, 8.2.5 was not hard to guess
like, at all
its just MoP again
autumn stirrup
Call me crazy but that's a lot of right things, and funny enough an old legion legion Jericho mentioned that someone has been leaking real stuff and might get in trouble
Just my 2 cents
Legion leaker*
Oh and also a Chinese riddle got released In 4chan which kinda matches what he says. Idk could be nothing but I think theres a good chance he might be on to something
lethal folio
Holy that guy 😄
round lake
Interesting read regarding his "leak": seems like its to much tho if its true
lament fjord
Lol the leak from razorpax would be cool, I doubt it is real though bc his credit comes from short-term news and while it is likely he knows someone at blizz that tells him one week before I don't think that qualifies him for long-term leaks like the expansion.
sullen dawn
you know it's funny, the only leak i 'hate' is the on from jericho21
it does seem like he might just be trying to mess with us this time though, there's some inconcistency in his posts, and it doesnt seem to fit the format of the legion leak where he just dumped the info in one post
unborn glacier
I hate every leak that says guild halls and housing are never happening
sullen dawn
thats just his
he's the only one who said 'never' i think
plus dragon isles as the main continent vomit
cyan prairie
Dragon expansion rn makes no sense since Sylvanas was shown as the "face" of the next expansion. I think we can be sure, that the next expansion will be death-themed.
dull flame
Was deathwing not death enough for a dragon?
tropic trail
so that Legion "Leaker" who "leaked" some stuff about next xpac most likely talked shit
there is no way an Blizzard lawyer would threaten someones child and wife
dark furnace
I see a pattern where "leakers" want to make Blizzard look bad
Like that old leak where working at Blizzard was compared to working in a coalmine 16 hours a day
They think it will give them credibility
oak wraith
We just need to wait a week or two at most (by now).
stiff vector
Can confirm Rod Rigole is the dude at blizz that calls people tho
So that's interesting
Not many know that specifically
tropic trail
but he would not threaten someones child? like that sounds super super unrealistic
stiff vector
And at most he probably mentioned it'd be a costly legal battle with consequences for his family
Which would likely be accurate
Because murica
tropic trail
so the guy just overreacts to make blizz look bad?
stiff vector
Probably yeah
sullen dawn
marlamin, you're a level headed guy with a good instinct for this stuff. whats your thoughts on if he's legit this time around or not?
stiff vector
Jericho? No idea honestly
While the things he said aren't at all ridiculous there's no way to prove them yet either way
And if he or someone near him truly got into trouble last time around I doubt he would leak things again
He'd have more reasons to not leak things than to leak things
tldr inconclusive
dull flame
Hot elf girl on any poster brings all the boys in the yard
Besides why bother with reveal poster
They keep that as suprise for blizzcon
dark furnace
No, but it probably means Sylvanas will be a relevant character
And he says they are taking a break with her
Or perhaps they are trying to throw people off with Sylvanas not being relevant
dull flame
Tbh it would be stupid to just ignore her now
dark furnace
Yeah, especially with the datamined Death Knight stuff
There is no way they would do something death related without her
tropic trail
A Character being featured on the blizzcon/gamescom poster means most of the time always something
being it the expansion, a Cinematic (when Saurfang was featured and that one cinematic was revealed) or a big patch around this person
the only time where it didnt mean shit was when Sylvanas was featured back in legion
for a patch
and she did just a small thing in this patch
So Sylvanas being featured on this blizzcon means 100% shes the Character to bring us into the next xpac/being featured in the new xpac trailer
dense plover
so
we have an actual potential leak
this is from sept 10
before we knew about 8.3
and before 8.2.5
so.....
limber mural
i'll take aspects back yes thx
the hell's meant by 'more control in players' hands?'
limber mural
Yup
oak wraith
It's fun to search the MMO forums for that persons posts only. He either knows stuff ... or at least, remains on-message 😄
sullen dawn
he also said this on the 18th (6 days before 8.2.5 went live)
campaign ends in 8.2.5
sylvanas gets ousted
horde still kinda in a bit of chaos
new leadership system
8.3 wraps up a few loose ends with the factions
we must deal with nzoth and his army rising
now those are guessable (and i think we might have known war campaign was ending in 8.2.5 already) but 6 for 6 is pretty good
sullen dawn
if he's right, at least there's some revamped zones along with dragon isles
limber mural
I wouldn't be object to a hard dragons-focused expac again
sullen dawn
i would
limber mural
you make me sad
sullen dawn
the only thing i didnt want 😦
but the revamp zones make me happy
even if it's only like 3-4 zones remade
limber mural
I am monkaS about them trying to match Legion in quality
oak wraith
... I already play Guild Wars 2 as my other game? (which is SO MUCH FOCUS on their dragons 😛 )
limber mural
Cause dev-time wise they can't
sullen dawn
who knows, production processes improve and 8.3 seems to be a bit light on non-raid content
i wonder what zones would get remade
my hope would be for either northrend or lorderon/quel'thelas, due to death theme
but he mentions black empire invasions
oak wraith
There's the invasions for non-raiders, with 2 zones for that (not heard if there's minor ones too), plus the SW/Org scenario-type stuff.
sullen dawn
sure but they didnt make new zones or dungeon. 7.3 had 3 new mini zones, 1 dungeon and 1 raid
im not saying its a tiny patch, but might have saved some dev time for 9.0
tulip sun
There are supposedly minor ones
marble briar
So got a few thoughts here....Now idk if its game play or what...but wasnt it arthas who was the only one with ability to raise death knights? And that was with the power of Frostmourne if I am not mistaken....Now....if ptr is led to be believed....how does bolvar have the ability to raise Pandarean/Allied Races into Death Knights when hes trappen in a block of ice....Now I know that DKs raised those who they did in Legion...but isnt that like Game play and not necessarily lore? And if they were to raise peopel from the dead how do they keep thier human form....sylvannas does it and she gets Forsaken...how can Bolvar and or or other DKs able to....and added to the fact...that newly created DKs are born intot he Arthas era....i know long ramble but i been in thought all morning lol.
limber mural
DKs need a starting area revamp
marble briar
Im sure they will but .... how does Bolvar have the ability to raise new Death Knights without the power of Frostmourne?
tropic trail
I'm still waiting for the Sethrak AR announcement at Blizzcon
cyan prairie
So alliance players can cry again? Thanks, but i don't want to see any more cryposts on Blizz forums from them (especially after the "Hordemode")...
tropic trail
Now they're going to be alliance if anything
cyan prairie
They have no reason to join alliance
Especially after the Zuldazar invasion
Where alliance attacked the Loa's Sanctum
tropic trail
Oh so they were in Zuldazar? they were just there hanging out you know I didn't know that we killed them in the raid
Oh I didn't know they had a statue there you know
cyan prairie
If Sethrak were playable, they'd make most sense to join both factions.
The Devoted would join the Horde, since they saved Sethraliss, avenged her by killing Mythrax, and we've already seen Sethrak Priests taking part in Talanji's Crowning Ceremony. Meanwhile the remaining Faithless could join alliance, because well, their only reason is to kill The Devoted.
Both sides would be happy, the story would kinda make sense and i guess nobody would complain.
novel zodiac
@dense plover About that leak, what does "WF", "IE" and "WF/TF" means?
novel zodiac
Thanks
tropic trail
I mean
The Horde helped the Mechagnomes so much
And were so much nicer than the Alliance
With so many goblins there too
And yet they went Alliance
tropic trail
I like them
cyan prairie
Yeah and Mechagnomes seem to like Goblins more than actual Gnomes, but i'm happy that my faction got Vulpera xD
tropic trail
Alliance Sethrak is still a very high possibility. Nevermind that they're a reimagining of the Draenei
cyan prairie
The biggest problem of Sethraks isn't even the helmet thing, but lack of female models
novel zodiac
if they become an AR, whos going to join the other faction?
cyan prairie
I'll say it again - Sethraks make no sense as alliance AR
novel zodiac
i know
cyan prairie
I'd rather say that alliance gets Jinyu/Ankoan
novel zodiac
now that we're going back to pandaria
horde could get the monkeys
i forgot how they're called
cyan prairie
No i think i have an idea
When there was one interview
Some guy mentioned allied races
And said Mogu among them
novel zodiac
there is a friendly mogu faction in 8.3, right?
dark furnace
Hozen would be amazing
cyan prairie
Yup
dark furnace
They are my most wanted race
cyan prairie
And the Mogu Faction tells us to stop the smaller Mogu Clans
novel zodiac
i wanted to play as a tol'vir since i saw them in cata
dark furnace
And if the leak is legit, we might end up with a continuation of the Allied Race system
novel zodiac
but that ain't happening
dark furnace
Something like United Races
cyan prairie
Tol'vir just like Sethrak - no female model
dark furnace
To differentiate them
cyan prairie
Or their women are just very manly
terse patrol
I’d rather the Alliance gets another race with the worgen skeleton.
Not another night elf skeleton race.
cyan prairie
But what else uses worgen skeleton except Sauroks and Saberons?
dark furnace
The Worgen skeleton is used by the lion people from Draenor, who fled into the Barrens
terse patrol
Dragonmen.
cyan prairie
Yeah forgot about them
dark furnace
And if they revamp the world, there will definitely be consequences to Botani and Saurok fleeing into the barrenss
cyan prairie
They ugly AF tho
dark furnace
Alliance needs an ugly race
terse patrol
^
cyan prairie
U'll get small humans then
dark furnace
Imagine the Worgen Allied race turns out to be the thin humans
People would be so mad
terse patrol
I just worry about if Light Undead go Alliance, they’ll just be recolored humans.
And people will freak out.
dark furnace
It would be the other way around
cyan prairie
Zandalari hate Mogu
dark furnace
If they didn't do another Nightborne flip
cyan prairie
Nightborne liked Blood Elves from the start
dark furnace
Yeah
sullen dawn
What I wouldn't give for recoloured light undead humans with lorderon racials/theme
cyan prairie
And Tyrande was spitting on them
sullen dawn
and reclaimed lorderon
dark furnace
And Tyrande turned them away from the Night Elves
tropic trail
Except the Alliance and Mogu aren't amicable either
sullen dawn
would change my paladin in an instant
tropic trail
Sethrak are practically Draenei.
cyan prairie
What
dark furnace
The most likely things are Sethrak for Horde and Light Undead for Alliance
cyan prairie
Did you even play Vol'dun campaign?
terse patrol
Issue with the Nightborne situation.
The way Tyrande acted was way outside her character.
cyan prairie
Tyrande was always a bitch towards everyone
sullen dawn
tropic trail
Why would the Alliance get undead?
sullen dawn
lorderon pride rising
terse patrol
She treated the blood elves with respect and even sacrificed herself to save them.
cyan prairie
Ugh Tyrande quests in Legion... Neverending trauma
dark furnace
Retcon
terse patrol
Crappy retcon.
cyan prairie
Dukkha the reason would be simple
Some undead already wanted to rejoin their families
tropic trail
You dont want them on Horde?
dark furnace
Calia Menethil will not go Horde
cyan prairie
And Calia was an alliance from the beginning
tropic trail
So the bomb is in your hands now
terse patrol
If the Horde get the undead night elves, I’ll be mad.
cyan prairie
Ok so you say that daugther of Terenas wasn't member of the alliance?
tropic trail
Yeah
terse patrol
“bruh come back to us, we want you back” “WE HAVE BEEN ABANDONED REEEE”
tropic trail
She wasnt a member of the Alliance of Stormwind
cyan prairie
What was her faction then? Legion?
dark furnace
No, Lillian shows her the Night Elves that died in Teldrassil and Calia takes them under her guidance
uncut lintel
Did someone say Sethrak >.> O3O
tropic trail
Her faction in Legion was the Netherlight Temple
cyan prairie
And Liadrin was a member of The Silver Hand in Legion
dark furnace
Night Elf Sentinels
cyan prairie
Not all forsaken are Horde
tropic trail
None are Alliance though
cyan prairie
The diference is that Calia didn't get resurrected by a Valkyr or Lich King
cyan prairie
And what is her reason to join the Horde?
tropic trail
Because her people are there? The Forsaken
unborn glacier
To "lead her people" 🤢
cyan prairie
If she wants to help them, she would help them reunite with their families
Wasn't her goal to make the Forsaken leave the Horde from the beginning?
Those forsaken who showed up there could get resurrected by the light as she got
tropic trail
To get away from Sylvanas, basically.
cyan prairie
And rejoin their families that are still out there
tropic trail
Now that the hag is gone
And the relationships mostly mended
Why would they just up and join the Alliance? When they could make a better Lordaeron?
smoky mural
better kill the forsaken then let callia lead them
tropic trail
"Oh no! I might not be stupidly edgy anymore! This is a fate worse than undeath!"
cyan prairie
I still think that something is wrong with Derek
smoky mural
says the guy who never played forsken or cared about there lore before bts
marble briar
Ya Sylvannas wouldnt of just let him go without being a Bomb instantly
cyan prairie
I'm starting to see another Nathanos when i see him
smoky mural
better than callia
tropic trail
The Forsaken aren't the scourge
Under Sylvanas, they were becoming what they hated
Now perhaps it's time we had undead that weren't dicks that needed to be purged?
smoky mural
fuck no
dark furnace
That wouldnt be Undead
tropic trail
"Oh no! I can't play a reprehensible monster that is tolerated on the noble savage faction for some reason!"
dark furnace
That would be like playing a Night Elf that goes around destroying nature
cyan prairie
The only race worse than Forsaken are the Worgen
tropic trail
The Worgen are alright
cyan prairie
No they aren't
smoky mural
i don't care what you want for a race you have never cared about before bts
uncut lintel
Worgen are clearly the best alliance race
tropic trail
I dont care what you want for a race that should have been put back in the ground
smoky mural
you want to make them into another bland human
tropic trail
You can either lose the edgy "I HATE THE LIVING BECAUSE... REASONS!" Or not get written at all
cyan prairie
The Gilneans abandoned Lordaeron when it needed their help.
tropic trail
@cyan prairie And what would they have done? Fed more Soldiers to the Scourge?
cyan prairie
So The Forsaken are right to hate them
smoky mural
yes
tropic trail
The wall was a smart move that saved his people and kingdom
Maybe Lordaeron should have made a wall
cyan prairie
Genn Greymane - Veteran of hiding behind a Wall
tropic trail
Hey it worked
smoky mural
no it didn't
tropic trail
For a decade or so, before Deathwing fucked it up
smoky mural
he had to use the worgen
dark furnace
People play Undead for the edginess, not for the Lawful Goodness of the Alliance
terse patrol
It held them back long enough to summon the worgen.
tropic trail
The Earth broke before the wall did
cyan prairie
Alliance aren't lawfully good tbh, they made some evil shit too
unborn glacier
The cult of the damned did infiltrate it tho
terse patrol
Internment wasn’t evil.
cyan prairie
Arthas alone could be compared to Teldrassil
tropic trail
The point is. The undead can keep their edginess, but they need to lose the "death to the living" shit
terse patrol
Arthas was an Alliance evil
dark furnace
Thats why the Undead dont fit there
cyan prairie
And Garrosh was Horde evil
tropic trail
I mean, we did bust in and murder Rastakhan
cyan prairie
And his crimes were directed towards the Horde as well
terse patrol
That’s like saying Gul’dan is the Horde’s fault.
sullen dawn
Calia considers herself Lorderon
Lorderon pride yo
She talks about reclaiming her family name....Menethil
cyan prairie
She has no kingdom tho since it got a bit greenier
terse patrol
@tropic trail Rastakhan died because of Bwonsamdi.
tropic trail
The Forsaken were introduced into WoW in the first place because so many liked the Scourge in WC3. The Forsaken are an edgy race and this is right so. Their whole identity is being cruel and neutral evil
No
terse patrol
The Alliance intended to capture him.
dark furnace
^
tropic trail
Yes
sullen dawn
we'll get it back
unborn glacier
Most of Arthas's crimes were against all of Azeroth cx
cyan prairie
Rastakhan died because Bwonsamdi allowed it
terse patrol
^
cyan prairie
He could wipe the alliance out from Zuldazar alone if he wanted
sullen dawn
Yeh but bwonsamdi wasnt ever going to kill rastakhan
terse patrol
Wot
cyan prairie
Bu Rastakhan wasn't a good King
tropic trail
He's not that strong
sullen dawn
he was just like...yoiu know what...there's an opportunity for me here...i dont need to save you
terse patrol
He PLANNED to get rid of Rastakhan so he could get Talanji.
tropic trail
Dont kid yourself
terse patrol
He wanted Talanji, not Rastakhan.
cyan prairie
So his death could actually help the Zandalari
sullen dawn
not from the start
uncut lintel
o-o Wait why deos he want Talanji
tropic trail
It is only fair for the Forsaken fans to complain about not being edgy and cruel anymore and instead becoming an misunderstood Twilight boolshit race
sullen dawn
he hardly planned the alliances invasion
tropic trail
thats the real edge master lvl
cyan prairie
Talanji is a better ruler than he was
terse patrol
He let it happen.
dark furnace
Rastakhan had the power of the Loa of Death on his side
sullen dawn
yes at the final moments
tropic trail
undead beings that are misunderstood , like it was in Twilight is the TOP lvl edgeness
sullen dawn
you're confusing what happened
cyan prairie
Because he didn't see the world outside of Zuldazar
terse patrol
Bwonsamdi saw it as benefiting his goals.
unborn glacier
Rastakhan died because Genn is a prejudicial fuck. "Give us your daughter as a hostage or die" "ZANDALAR FOREVER" "Kill this savage"
sullen dawn
Yes I know
terse patrol
Also.
tropic trail
Genn isn't prejudicial
cyan prairie
They did
unborn glacier
He literally did
dark furnace
He did
tranquil steeple
alliance attacking is due to rastakhan not surrendering
tropic trail
Rastakhan
terse patrol
Bwonsamdi might serve Death too. So, letting the Alliance capture Rastakhan and potentially force the Zandalari out of the Horde would mean less deaths.
tranquil steeple
rastakhan dying is 'cause bwonsamdi let him die
sullen dawn
But he only decided towards the end to let rastakhan die, when he saw the alliance were gaining the upper hand. He didn't plan for the alliance to come and kill him. Yes he viewed talanji as easier to control, but that was an opportunity he took when he saw it. He never 'planned it'
tranquil steeple
when bwonsamdi could've NOT let rastakhan die
unborn glacier
He literally said you will hand over your daughter as a hostage or die
sullen dawn
He has no loyalty to zandalari sure, and wants an easier ruler to 'infulence' but he never organized his death
terse patrol
Bwonsamdi will be a baddie next expansion, calling it.
tropic trail
And? Are we going to murder her or something?
cyan prairie
And the alliance weren't as innocent in that attack since the Dark Irons were killing civillians there
unborn glacier
Ahhhh, so crimes are okay so long as it's the alliance
sullen dawn
bwonsamdi is my homie tho
tropic trail
Genn Greymane: King Rastakhan of Zandalar... On behalf of the Alliance, and in the name of King Anduin Wrynn, I hereby request your surrender.
King Rastakhan: You...an exile without a homeland...you dare invade dese sacred halls and demand dat I turn my kingdom over to you?
King Rastakhan: De Zandalari built an empire dat would endure for over ten-thousand years...while your barbaric ancestors scuffled in de dirt.
King Rastakhan: WE conquered this world. WE brought it glory. You...you are nothing. Merely de latest in a long line of savages seeking to undermine our greatness.
King Rastakhan: No, I will not surrender. Because no matter what happens here today...Zandalar will stand long after your Alliance has crumbled to dust.
King Rastakhan: But if you are so eager to meet Bwonsamdi...den step forward. De Loa of Death awaits!
King Rastakhan: Zandalar forever!
Genn Greymane: So be it. Heroes... you know what must be done.
cyan prairie
Check the Horde Side of The raid
terse patrol
Mauldrak.
tropic trail
And not some rando Zandalari
unborn glacier
Lmao
tropic trail
Given that the Alliance actually experiences that fight
terse patrol
You know the Horde side was a flashback right?
tropic trail
The Horde is a retelling from someone else
terse patrol
Designed to twist the entire situation?
tranquil steeple
I mean besides the difference in Genn's quotes
cyan prairie
The Dead civillians were a flashback too?
terse patrol
The Alliance saw the first hand account.
tranquil steeple
what Rastakhan says is the same across both sides
sullen dawn
rastakhan isnt exactly in the wrong
terse patrol
Yes. But the edgy shit Genn said doesn’t.
cyan prairie
Then Alliance killed undead Grong before Horde actually killed him?
sullen dawn
genn is a dick in that fight
terse patrol
The flashback versions are not canon, Mauldrak.
cyan prairie
The fight with Grong is not a flashback
hasty elbow
aren't those lying dead in the Horde side entrance just random zandalari soldiers?
unborn glacier
They are
sullen dawn
who said they werent canon?
tropic trail
The 3rd boss held up the Horde long enough for us to kill Rastakhan
unborn glacier
They are canon lol
cyan prairie
There are 2 versions just like the Darkshore campaign
terse patrol
Explain how there can be two canon versions of one event.
sullen dawn
yeh theres nothing saying theyre not
tropic trail
They're canon if you're a hard horde or alliance supporter
sullen dawn
easy, blizz didn't bother to sync up the exact timing/continuity
tropic trail
And dont want to listen to the other side
It's an unreliable narrator
Meant to stir up conflict and faction loyalties
cyan prairie
As Horde you go save the civillians, because Saurfang orders you to do it, and then Alliance saw a flashback where they all were Dead, with no Saurfang there
terse patrol
You’re saying Genn stood there, told Rastakhan to surrender, said “bruh pause a sec. I’m going to repeat all that for your witness and be super edgy instead.”
sullen dawn
you're thinking too much into it
tranquil steeple
if someone re-tells how something happens after their leader just got killed by the enemy faction, of course it'd be a little different
sullen dawn
well yes...that's how blizzard writing works
tropic trail
Genn didn't ask for Talanji's daughter
cyan prairie
And which one is canon? The alliance one because it's alliance?
terse patrol
OKAY
unborn glacier
Yes he did @tropic trail
tropic trail
Because the Alliance segment of the raid actually hears what he says
terse patrol
Slow down so I can explain this for you.
tropic trail
@unborn glacier That's what some random spear troll says
sullen dawn
both are canon, its the same event, blizz prolly just didnt think about it much as we are
tropic trail
She wasnt Genn Greymane himself stating the terms of surrender
She wasnt right there, standing next to Genn as he spoke
sullen dawn
the easiest answer is "we want both sides to feel badass here, make the dialogue appeal to each faction depending on whose playing"
terse patrol
This is the canon timeline: The Alliance’s first half of the raid is canon. Then the Alliance hears a flackback retelling of the Hordes retaliation against the Alliance.
unborn glacier
Lmao
tropic trail
And vice versa
cyan prairie
Play the raid as Horde - you kill The first 3 bosses where Grong dies and Bwonsamdi resurrects him to stop alliance.
cyan prairie
Which part is first you think?
terse patrol
WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. Ok, simplifying it even further.
Neither retelling on both sides is canon.
terse patrol
It’s a biased retelling.
sullen dawn
tropic trail
Its a design retelling
unborn glacier
The entire raid is canon and Genn wanted to kidnap talanji
terse patrol
You get the full story by playing both sides of the raid.
unborn glacier
Kappa
tropic trail
@unborn glacier Liadrin is also a doctor-killing savage
sullen dawn
i agree with ranger wynter
terse patrol
@tropic trail That got changed to a random Orc lady.
hasty elbow
btw we should return to something ptr-related lul
cyan prairie
Grong died while climbing the Great Seal and falling to the ground while being shot by Goblin helicopters, and then he got resurrected by Lich King with the Aid of Gul'dan and Aegwynn. Because the Horde Side isn't canon
tropic trail
The Alliance side of Rastakhan is canon. Horde side of proudmoore is canon
sullen dawn
so....king kong?
tropic trail
Easiest explanation
limber mural
Rename this to PTR-arguments deadass
tropic trail
Because those two sides are not retellings
terse patrol
The non-retelling portions on both sides are canon. The retelling/flashbacks are survivors biased, non-canon versions.
unborn glacier
No dukkha. Lol. Anyways, lunch breaks over.
cyan prairie
Alliance went to Crucible of Storms to kill The exact copies of The same bosses the Horde killed before them, when they got Xal'atath and delivered it to Sylvanas.
sullen dawn
the easiest explanation is blizzard didnt think about it this hard and they consider the differences unimportant - i.e. its all canon
terse patrol
mauldrak over here having an aneurysm.
tropic trail
You sound like a very biased elf @unborn glacier
unborn glacier
Pot meet kettle
cyan prairie
The thing is that alliance role in that whole expansion seems like just watching the Horde do things, and pretending, like they mean anything in the story.
unborn glacier
"alliance can do no wrong, Hurr durr*
cyan prairie
Alliance: "We enslaved pandaren children and women in Jade Forest in the name of justice"
tropic trail
Im not saying it was right to murder rastakhan
Im just saying he didnt ask for her daughter
@cyan prairie Funny. Horde did the same thing
Almost like the theme of that expac was realizing both factions were warring for stupid shit
unborn glacier
He did, get over it
tropic trail
They both were but they're not unreliable narrator's
No he didn't it's not his character
I mean you seem to forget that he does have a daughter and that he is also lost his son I don't think he wants to put any other parent through that sort of shit
terse patrol
pffft
tropic trail
That's from the Horde retelling
terse patrol
Hot take.
cyan prairie
You want me to play the raid and screenshot it for you?
terse patrol
How are you this stupid?
tropic trail
Why would they even want his daughter
Anduin even said
They came for Rastakhan
Not his daughter
terse patrol
How do you not understand what a biased retelling is?
terse patrol
The Alliance even gets a biased retelling of the Jaina fight.
tropic trail
The guy responsible for Pandaria almost being enslaved again?
cyan prairie
Why didn't they imprison Zul alone then?
tropic trail
The guy who has been stirring shit up since 4.1?
ionic terrace
This totally isn’t ptr related at all
tropic trail
We dont know. She was with him, so we just imprisoned her until we figured out what to do
It's not like we're going to torture and murder them. Might be some Horde projection there
stiff vector
but @ionic terrace what do you think about lore
cyan prairie
So maybe the whole idea of Horde working together with Zandalari was an alliance projection too?
Tbh Zandalari wouldn't even join the Horde if Rastakhan didn't die.
He was against it since the beginning.
tropic trail
Sure rhey wouldnt
pulsar iris
also the alliance version of that quote
Genn Greymane: King Rastakhan of Zandalar... On behalf of the Alliance, and in the name of King Anduin Wrynn, I hereby request your surrender.
tropic trail
We did you a favor by deposing him
cyan prairie
He cared only about his own ass, so his only enemies were the Blood Trolls and their god.
tropic trail
Again. We did you a favor by axing him
cyan prairie
But still he died as an innocent King, who didn't even take part in the war. Is that something, that a "good" faction does?
tropic trail
The Alliance was never good. We're just not as evil as the Horde is.
If they'd excise the Forsaken, we'd be alot more even
cyan prairie
Go check the Dark Irons, i guess they can be compared to Forsaken
tropic trail
I mean
They summoned Ragnaros
But...
Most of their shit was contained to themselves?
They fought with the Dwarves and stuff
But they're not wiping entire towns off the map with chemical weapons
cyan prairie
Then go check Night Elves
I guess they caused the most death and destruction in the whole story
tropic trail
Oh, you mean the valiant kaldorei who fought off the highborne?
The highborne arent the night elves
The night elves were the country bumpkins and peasants
cyan prairie
You call all forsaken the same so i call all night Elves the same
tropic trail
To be fair, the Forsaken dont seem to punish their folks
Like the people in Hillsbrad
Who did some really
Really
Really
Deplorable shit
cyan prairie
The Forsaken in Hillsbrad got quickly Removed by us because of that
The questline there ends with you killing them after what they did
And surprise the ones who Tell you to kill them are other Forsaken
terse patrol
Because they turned traitor.
Not because the Forsaken disapproved of their actions.
cyan prairie
I guess killing people and making huge flesh giants to kill everything actually was disapproved
The Forsaken are split into Tiny factions alone when it comes to what they approve or don't approve
Some are "to let's kill everything because why not" while others are completely against it
That's how both factions are made
You can't compare Grimtotem Taurens to the Bloodhoof Taurens, or the Night Elves to the Highborne
Both factions are shit who did comparable amount of evil things
If we call Garrosh a Horde villain, then we can call Arthas an alliance villain
If we call Gul'dan a Horde Villain, then we can call Azshara an Alliance Villain
limber mural
Bruh. Horde-bias version of that line is a lot wilder than what Genn actually says
never did the raid on horde
cyan prairie
The line Genn says on Horde side actually makes more sense, because if they had Talanji as a hostage, they'd be sure that Rastakhan doesn't take part in the war.
limber mural
Yeah
Alliance one is like... what's actually said though
but dazar'alor retellings did have a lot of 'see, the terror of the enemy and their injustice' spread on with a spoon
cyan prairie
Controlling a city of that size would be impossible, especially since alliance had much less military power than the Horde, and the Loa themselves would be a huge threat to them.
Holding a single person on your own territory however would seem much easier and better.
cyan prairie
(And before anyone says "uuh hurd bias") I'd like to remind that none of The alliance soldiers survived in Nazmir, Tyrande took a big group of Night Elves and Worgen away from alliance, and Genn himself mentioned in Lost Honor that they are recruiting farmers instead of actual warriors.
Alliance would've won the war if they destroyed Zandalari Fleet and didn't even attack the city at all
Rastakhan would blame the Horde that they brought war to him.
And instead alliance lost the war when they lost the only advantage they had over the Horde - they lost their fleet because Azshara showed up, while they were trying to destroy the last Horde ships. And now Tyrande will come back with whatever idea she's gonna come up with and do some weird shit.
With the recent writing i wouldn't be surprised if she tried to kill Anduin and take control over the alliance because he isn't good enough in her eyes.
dark furnace
So, how does the Azshara cannon fit into 8.3?
cyan prairie
Some higher-ranked minion of N'zoth is torturing her for her betrayal.
She also mentions a deal she made with Sylvanas, tho we know only what was Azshara's plan.
What Sylvanas wanted exactly is still waiting to be revealed/datamined.
I guess that's everything we know so far.
Nvm i read it wrong. The Cannon in Azshara might be used in some scenario or sth. There was a mention that it'll be used in BfA, but since the best opportunity for it would be the Goblin Heritage Armor questline i doubt it'll actually happen.
Maybe there will be something in 8.3.5, but again - can happen, but doesn't need to.
dense plover
actually there have been some edits
its likely it is going to be used
possible that it could be used to shoot nzoth or something
that would be sick
cyan prairie
Yeah imagine shooting a huge octopus God with a huge harpoon gun
Would make the most epic raid cinematic ever
You mentioned changes - to the raid, or the Heritage Armor questline?
dark furnace
And then it backfires because the Alliance blocked it
That would be epic
And the whole "city" explodes
cyan prairie
Tbh i would like the N'zoth fight on the open Waters even more than in Ny'alotha.
Something with a scalelike Madness of Deathwing
dark furnace
He might stretch out above Nazjatar
cyan prairie
I'd love to see that Nazjatar map finished
Where part of his body is already 2 Times bigger than whole Nazjatar
dark furnace
And then the goblins use the cannon but it explodes because the Alliance put explosives in the cannon in the Board Missions
I would like to see Azeroth use everything they got on Nzoth
cyan prairie
The whole world united against him
Fighting him on some huge platform in the sea
With all the factions of Azeroth fighting him
dark furnace
And then Gallywix shows up in his ultra-sized mech, even bigger than Nzoth and smacks him in the head
With Gallywix being branded the ultimate hero of Azeroth
cyan prairie
Would be really epic, but i guess Azshara fight with some fishes in the background was laggy enough already
We get rid of Gallywix in 8.3 tho
cyan prairie
Since the post where someone said that he liked changes to prot warrior coming in 8.0 i can't tell if what i'm reading is real or a joke
But still a fight where we could actually see the whole of Azeroth united against one enemy in a raid would be awesome.
dark furnace
This is what the pinnacle of Wow would look like
No, this is the true pinnacle, nothing would ever top this
pulsar iris
ptr spoilers turned into meme spoilers?
cyan prairie
Imagine a cinematic where defeated N'zoth just looks at us on some coast and then someone in the background yells "Burn it!"
Then the whole fight ends with him just getting destroyed by demolishers
mighty wolf
no, just Wrathion'll kill him with Xalatath
limber mural
or Sylvanas'll do it and everything will be ok
mighty wolf
she's not appears in Ny'alotha 🤔
cyan prairie
I guess we (the players) will stab him
bronze gust
stabbie stabbie mcstabber murdering hobo/champion/hero/psycho
we are truly the worse villains that have ever lived
in 15 years I have killed more shit than the lich king ever did
inner copper
especially the BoE mount grinders in BfA
bronze gust
yeph thats me
upper remnant
modest temple
probably gunna get the patch out b4 the holiday so they can just turn it on in the new year
the raid*
uncut vault
Twitter
stiff vector
leaks
ionic terrace
tropic trail
@stiff vector you know more about that?
stiff vector
nop, i stay away from serverside stuff
tropic trail
😦
stiff vector
that's all @ancient forge's department 😛
requires usage of tools i don't exactly agree with
ancient forge
lol
tropic trail
@ancient forge tell us your secrets 👀
ancient forge
Still loking do we have anything about it
I didn't look at all scenes in 8.3
I just open the file casually and saw it there 😄
tropic trail
wanna tell what happens there? pls
pulsar iris
same
ancient forge
I didn't load up the cutscene yet, I think they didn't push it yet
stiff vector
i've only seen the DON scene in the files which is an azerite thing
ancient forge
@stiff vector did they encrypt with that DK key scenescriptext ?
pulsar iris
oh oh broadcasttext to what
ancient forge
but I doubt that will happen lol
stiff vector
the darion/bolvar voice lines but they're encrypted @pulsar iris
tropic trail
but stiven saw a cutscene, right?
stiff vector
no
tropic trail
or the intro scene
pulsar iris
what would be a intro scene if not a cutscene? i is confused
tropic trail
me 2
ancient forge
I just saw into the data new ID of the scene that is called 8.3 [DKI] Death Knight Intro - IGC
pulsar iris
ugh
ancient forge
means we will have cutscene for new Allied Race or all races for intro when u make an Death Knight
cus tbh it will be stupid to make Vulpera DK and be lvl 55 and Arthas teach him a lessons
so makes sense they need new intro
pulsar iris
yes it makes sense
tropic trail
yea
stiff vector
is that DBCache'd @ancient forge?
ancient forge
no it's normally in DB2
I just finish sniffing the screnescripttext
wanna see is server nice to me
pulsar iris
wait did we got a new build?
pulsar iris
you still working on latest build? 🤔
ancient forge
yeah I forgot it tho xD
stiff vector
whew
ancient forge
8.3 [DON] Death of N'zoth (Ny'alotha Raid Finale) - IGC
stiff vector
okay that file has a lot
ancient forge
8.3 [MRS] Magni Ra-den's Sacrifice - IGC
stiff vector
lol
ancient forge
8.3 [BWE] Blackwing Descent - Wrathion's Escape - IGC
8.3 [MRF] Magni Reactivates the Forge - IGC
8.3 [REM] Raid Epilogue From Magni - IGC
nothing cool here
tropic trail
soo.. just a bunch of titles b ut nothing more?
stiff vector
@tropic trail i mean pretty important titles but yeah
ancient forge
nothing big here
tropic trail
yea ofc they are important
pulsar iris
DEATH of nzoth
ancient forge
Death Knight is kind a cool
Death of Nzoth
we know we would kill him cus well he is last raid boss
ancient forge
10 man ppl kill an old god
pulsar iris
because nzoth is master illusionist
ancient forge
oh actually I can read some data and see what's going on there
pulsar iris
PogChamp
ancient forge
we fight nzoth in Azerite Chamber ?
pulsar iris
tilted why do your twitch profile has not a english version?
stiff vector
yeah stiven that is known
pulsar iris
wait do we?
tropic trail
because I mainly stream in german, jrkb
stiff vector
i think there's a hearth of azeroth chamber copy in the files somewhere too for the raid
i saw it scroll by in model viewer
pulsar iris
damn
stiff vector
might be cutscene only too as it looked pretty baked
pulsar iris
so nzoth got pretty damn far into azeroth it seems
tropic trail
damn
uncut vault
probably gonna be that Nzoth is almost killed by the reorigination beam, but not quite
ancient forge
I like how they didn't add Vulperas for Raid Epilogue From Magni cutscene yets 😄
uncut vault
then wrathion kills him with xalatath
pulsar iris
you watching it stiven? Kappa
stiff vector
the DON one might be available yeah
its in the files at least
i can't play it though, need magic for that
ancient forge
Since bein' wounded by the Mad Titan, Azeroth has been cryin' out in pain. In her hour o' need, she lent you her power.
Today, at long last, she's free from the grasp o' the Old Gods. Her song rings clear and strong throughout this chamber.
Hold her heart with pride. Know that ye are more than a champion of yer people... ye are a champion of Azeroth!
and this is the happy ending an hopefully we won't see that dwarf again
stiff vector
spoiler you will
tropic trail
oh nice
pulsar iris
now magni can go back to ironforge in his fleshy dwarven glory
tropic trail
can you do the same with the Death Knight stuff?
stiff vector
DK stuff isnt in the local files at least
pulsar iris
is this going to wowhead website?
stiff vector
if server is nice to stiven there might be something
tropic trail
oh ok
ancient forge
Server may be nice
stiff vector
in that case yes there very likely will be something on wowhead later unless stiven decides to keep it until thursday 😛
stiff vector
the scenescript names are probably enough for 1 article tho
ancient forge
"24000","8.3 [DKI] VO - IGC","-- Check BroadcastText window for list of V.O. IDs
WaitForTrigger(""SetupLoaded"")
-- SHOT 1010 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WaitForTrigger(""StartShot1010"")
Wait(2)
--Actor.Sylvanas:BroadcastTextStereo(BroadcastType.Say, 141195) "
My guess placeholder
no sense for sylvanas to say something there
stiff vector
wwwwwwwwwweeeeeeellllllllllllll
tropic trail
wait
pulsar iris
UNLESS
tropic trail
Sylvanas has something to do with the new DK intro?
tropic trail
yea, like she could attack bolvar
mighty wolf
Poggers
uncut vault
inb4 shes the new lich king
pulsar iris
pls no
stiff vector
they might just be trolling too
ionic terrace
stiff vector
it is commented out after all
stiff vector
does that broadcasttext exist on server?
ancient forge
:/
pulsar iris
oh
ancient forge
no it does not exist
ionic terrace
Sylvanas: The scourge is nothing.
ancient forge
I am confused is this trolling by blizzard L:D
ancient forge
I think I even saw in the past that Broadcasttext ID 😄
tropic trail
this could go hand in hand
ancient forge
this is just a placeholder
tropic trail
I can totaly see it that the new DK intro may have something like "defend the DK starting zone from Sylvanas attackers/loyalists"
stiff vector
a placeholder with spawns?
i meannnnnnn
i wouldn't say placeholder, i'd say not finished
uncut vault
Royal Dreadguards have never been in an IGC, to my knowledge
we've only seen the sludge guards in the Lordaeron one
stiff vector
just added a scenescript viewer to my list of todo's
not 3d, just one that assembles the scripts based on the db2s and points out the missing ones
😄
nice find tho stiven
article when
ancient forge
Dunno seeing if they want to write about it 😛
stiff vector
if not give me a holler i'll gladly write about it 😛
or just tweet it out i'll gladly rt
stiff vector
lower your scanning threshold/rate 😛
ancient forge
I remember there were before 3 db2 if u scanned them
You crash the servers
talked with Blizzard server guy about it and they were wondering who is doing that 😄
I dunno how much times I told them I am sorry about it xD
stiff vector
oof
ancient forge
but hey I found the bug and they fixed it later 😄
Heh looking more at the data they didn't even put the references / connection between scenes and scenepackage in scenepackagamember
terse patrol
Going to be annoying if they keep giving the Loyalists more handouts.
ancient forge
will take a lot of effort to link correctly Death Of Nzoth Cutscene
terse patrol
"Please don't get mad!"
uncut vault
is it an in game one, or pre-rendered?
uncut vault
Weird that N’zoths death of all things isn’t pre-rendered
vernal tartan
ancient jasper
lean yew
actually, I think if anything that indicates the new dk starting zone might be completely separate from the xpac
and that it's meant to make it so future allied races can also be dks
because why go through the effort of updating it just to make it old again xd
or, maybe better yet, bolvar gives darion/teaches him how to raise new dks, so if bolvar is used for something else, it's never "in the past" it can be in the current day, not sure.
signal bone
isn't Sylvanas involved with the new DK starting quests though
so probably related to the xpac
ancient forge
Brace yourself incoming cool thing
terse patrol
Orly
tulip sun
braces
signal bone
mybodyisready
tulip sun
https://twitter.com/Stiven_SRB/status/1186469109971771392 I am guessing this is the cool thing. 😛
signal bone
is that silithus?
zealous basalt
He got blasted
dense plover
this is an interesting "leak"
dont know how true it is, but its not as ridiculous as most of the others
story even seems pretty logical
i dont think he dies
also final raid cinematic is guaranteed to be a fancy rendered one
not cgi, but like, end of argus raid style
storm marsh
Only thing is i find void elves dhs weird, but I guess it can work out
Void-fel blood wow
round lake
Saurfang back...no
storm marsh
Yeah... that too..
dense plover
void elf dhs isnt outlandish
they used to be blood elves
many of whom mightve worked with kaelthas
and thought about becoming dhs
storm marsh
Yeah i know. I hope they will make it interesting
round lake
Yea Im gonna go with fake on this one too
dense plover
which? the nzoth one?
not exactly
i dont think thats the end
thats the shot of mother shooting nzoth
that occurs before nzoth is defeated
dense plover
idk
i dont think its the raid end cinematic
raid end cinematics arent done in engine
theyre rendered
storm marsh
Its character casting hoa thing
lean yew
yeah
dense plover
even the short azshara one was fully rendered
storm marsh
I think it happens during fight
round lake
Demon hunter starting zone:
- Happens in the Tomb of Sargeras
- New Illidari because they know the Legion will return
- Arluelle from Suramar wants to "be prepared" for the next legion invasion
- New void elf character Ranith as counterpart
- Haven't yet contacted Illidan but have been trying
- Tidestone of Golganneth has just been returned but not yet placed to reseal rift
- Eredar called Nuuri (velen's wife) sends demons to attack from the rift
- Leader of the remnants of the Legion many demons attack
- She seeks the other titan pillars to help free Sargeras from the seat of the pantheon
- Nuuri’s forces are pushed back by the combined might of the Illidari and the return of Khadgar
- Basically set up for a later expac
Lol sorry but no
dense plover
i mean, again
none of it is impossible
tidestone is currently in naz
does need to be returned
storm marsh
Return of... khadgar 🤮
dense plover
oh we knew he would come back
he said so
once we stopped fighting each other
which we have
im not saying this is guaranteed
it provides a LOT of info which makes me think its fake
storm marsh
I wanted to comment on "horde getting undead night elves"