#beta-ptr-spoilers
uncut vault
dunno if you saw it for the fianl boss of the vale one, but theres a portal to him at the entrance to mogushan palace
feral belfry
So is the auction house update not ready yet? I'm seeing 24-48 hour crap still
should of fixed that to a much higher time lol
uncut vault
ionic terrace
ionic terrace
their light hurts, trust me
ionic terrace
My sun
uncut vault
theres a difference between the sun ones adn the light ones amongst these mobs
but its likely theyre both light, since sunwalkers also treat them as one and the same
zealous basalt
wtb magic aclaration
tulip sun
@ionic terrace Jade serpent anywhere??
zealous basalt
badass celestials
terse patrol
@uncut vault Why’re they fighting us tho
uncut vault
they came out of a tomb when sargeras' sword hit and believed they were the true voice of the titans, and have their own third forge that produces titanforged
terse patrol
ah
signal bone
how much is encrypted on the PTR?
zealous basalt
What the heck
dense plover
its from the worgen heritage questline
essentially fake nathanos conjured by tess's memories with the 'help' of goldrinn to show her the dangers of uncontrollable rage
zealous basalt
Freaking Nathanos
uncut vault
still better content than anything else regarding the forsaken this patch
dense plover
what?
i actually like some of the lillian stuff
theyre putting her forward as the leader
with help from calia and derek
theyre going to help with the transition
and with some of the others who need help
like the undead night elves
zealous basalt
Whatever happened to them
uncut vault
help with their complete lack of experience regarding anything forsaken, Calia especially
neither of them have been forsaken by any stretch of the imagination
dense plover
theyre not helping with forsaken
theyre helping people transitioning into undeath
the ones they mention are specifically ones who arent all rotten
like the night elves
uncut vault
which is even worse lol
zealous basalt
Without Sylvanas theg should jusy
uncut vault
at least they have the sliver of a terrible excuse for normal forsaken being Lordaeronian
zealous basalt
Send them to their eternal slumber
night swift
The forsaken could join them
uncut vault
undead elves have no reason to care about a white savior human with no relation to them
night swift
Its the first build, more dialogue could be found later
uncut vault
If they actually are setting up just Lilian as the leader, I'd accept that, even if shes been retconned quite a bit
just keep Calia and her discount Nathanos out of it all beyond the patch or two of preaching
dense plover
they arent setting calia up as the leader
zealous basalt
And be done with it
dense plover
some of the dialogue is voiced
the way the tone is set, it very clearly sounds like Lillian is going to Calia for help
not to have her be the leader
infact, Calia suggests Lillian should lead them
Calia feels that she owes her life to her people
but she knows there are others who need her help
thats all she wants to do
the dialogue, especially voiced, makes it much clearer
uncut vault
I hope thats the case
uncut vault
the damage already done is irreversible, so I can only hope that Calia preaches her crap for a little bit then fucks off for light story
and leaves the forsaken alone
dense plover
it makes it clear that Lillian is just scared of leading them
and that Calia has no plans to lead them
uncut vault
latter
she'll probably pop up in a golden novel and have some sappy chapters with her and anduin finding out about Bolvar in Jaina's required one chapter per Golden novel
uncut vault
me too, but I dont trust her with the story team or Golden
Quest team did her plenty of justice, I doubt the overarching story will
night swift
She was pretty cool in the zone quests
zealous basalt
Kill her then? Better than leaving her in the dark
night swift
And then she just kinda disappeared
zealous basalt
I'd do that to those characters that don't appear anymore
night swift
And same with Flynn past the Scepter thing in Tides of Vengeance
zealous basalt
Like you know
uncut vault
trust me, with blizzards current story team, even death doesnt give characters peace
theyre almost always tarnished in the patch they die
zealous basalt
Almiral Taylor
They killed him
Honestly tho we need friends
Because it feels that characters are like
Just that
But we should have friends while we level
... And then have them killed just to make us remember what we are playing
night swift
Runas in Legion
night swift
Voljin
terse patrol
@uncut vault That is true pain
night swift
stabbed by random legion minion
terse patrol
No one has died a worse death than Taylor.
night swift
That is true
uncut vault
Im stuck between understanding game size needs to be consistent for bosses being seen beyond a purple blob
night swift
Absolute unit
uncut vault
but also, this is a free old god
it should be massively bigger than the avatars of two other old gods
uncut vault
I feel like it would be weird for him to have a properly sized rest of his body
and then an itty bitty head
zealous basalt
Yogg scares me
night swift
Omg
terse patrol
Tbh
I think this is going to be his “core.” @uncut vault
As in, you break into his continent sized body.
And find his weird tentacle boy core inside
night swift
I could see that
uncut vault
ionic terrace
night swift
My god
tropic trail
Mechanical midgets? Racism!
night swift
Uhh no? How?
tropic trail
Called 'em midgets
plain vigil
@zealous basalt this is his lore size. He's larger than the entire zone of Naz'jatar
sour burrow
Question: With Calia being directed into the Horde... Lightforged Undead like her... How are/were they made? Is it a conversion? Is it a fresh necromancy? Would she have any reason to enact such things?
pine stirrup
i don't think that lightforged undead will be a thing... i think she will be the only one 
plain vigil
My assumption is that by the time they're released as AR (looking like 9.0 or 8.3.5 preorder assuming we don't get an 8.4) the factions will be unlocked, allowing heroes to take allegiance with who they please.
One concern 8.3 gives is that the Heratage quest makes it really difficult for goblins to get a new start zone, assuming that there will be a world revamp 9.0 or beyond.
sour burrow
I didn't ask whether you think it'll be a thing, as much as how it actually works currently for how she even came about. We've been assuming "Lightforged Undead!!" is what Alliance would get, but now that's... less likely. But yet she's decidedly being involved in matters.
If it's a matter of raising yet-more undead, it does feel weird to do that...
If it's a 'conversion', or something capable as a conversion(?) then it's a bit more likely.
plain vigil
Again, I'll reiterate, I think factions will be a choice come 9.0
strange falcon
Gandem do you think sneks could still come as the worgen AR e.e
plain vigil
Hell atm you have some pretty clear possible cross faction or rather on faction racial allignments that may split the factions even further.
sour burrow
If that even becomes a possibility, it'd be level 120+ only, with a large cooldown or something lol.
plain vigil
I think if I was right about Mechagnomes, we'll get sneaks eventually. There's definitely enough fan backing. But honestly broken deserve a shot, they've been waiting the longest. I also hope for one day to bring us gnolls.
sour burrow
I still strongly stand by "Worgen -> Sethrak, San'layn (Or now LF Undead) -> Undead", and now it's even stronger for the pattern to be SnekAlliance.
Gandem, yes, trash gnomes (gawd can you believe that development name? XD) happened. As we BOTH were stating months and months ago, back in like, early 8.0
plain vigil
If we get another elf race I wouldn't be surprised with Night Warrior Elf Worgen. Depends how desperate Tyrande geta
Gets*
The dev name was Junker
Yes, indeed. The non-believers were doubtful, but I pursued it gloriously
strange falcon
I can see the unoriginality backlash for elf worgen lul
sour burrow
I am disappointed it came before a better Alliance AR, but given the work load distribution, it kind of makes sense. Mechagnomes aren't terribly different from regular Gnomes, and LF Undead would be comparable.
plain vigil
All of the allied races bar Vulpera are Subraces of their particular race. We would have gotten a gnome sub race. It just so happened to be this one
sour burrow
Oh, I didn't WANT it to happen, but I already knew it would before we even had solid proof. The pattern has held all the way to this point, and they didn't shorten the banner for the AR page. We WILL get one more pair, and it almost definitely WILL be Undead/Worgen related.
plain vigil
This^
sour burrow
Sethrak are the only thing with resource-parity for Alliance, AND they continue to keep the general silouette thing Blizzard used to like. :P
Development resource parity.
plain vigil
Hell I'm not completely convinced goblins aren't corrupted Vulpera. I see it highly likely that goblins may be related to the vulpine wildgod as it has yet to make an appearance bar a book reference from the WoTA
Vulpera -> tested on by the Titans -> add kajamite = goblin is my current theory
sour burrow
While that would be exceptionally gross and weird, Blizzard can pick whatever lore path they want. I hope they do extend the Vulpera storyline more in the future.
strange falcon
What do you know maybe goblins are vulpera altered by the kajamite,just like other races that have been morphed by close contact with a mineral
plain vigil
The only thing tying goblins to a different origin is a single in game perspective sketch from the Warcraft magazine connecting them to troggs. But it was from the perspective of a dwarf speculating so it shouldn't be concidered hard cannon
I think it's highly possible that they added void elves to better divide the alliance. As they share a common suffering with Worgen and Night Warrior Nelfs.
As for Belfs, I think in 9.0 if they do indeed open up factions, we'll be seeing blue eyes added as well as paler hair.
strange falcon
Blizz already got a lot of good PR with the 8.3 announcement, all they had to do was hold on to it for a few weeks until bcon,and they go and ruin it with politics.
And this doesnt pertain to the channel so leave it at that
sour burrow
I would say we will have the announcements for the last ARs and/or 9.0 content during Blizzcon, hence why the raid for 8.3 is so far along and the timing of things.
But yeah, hope the political stuff doesn't muck up too much for WoW.
sour burrow
Ehh. Nah. It'll be 2 months. Don't see it coming sooner. Stuff's still pretty rough.
plain vigil
Followed by an August release (the way sales work I don't see a midsummer Xpac ever happening)
sour burrow
2 months patch, Early January for raid.
plain vigil
You'd be surprised, a month and a half on PTR is a long time
Keep in mind they release content in batches to PTR, the content is there, they're just QAing it.
sharp gulch
i could see them releasing it near the christmas sale tbh
sour burrow
I mean the fact there's a lot missing in terms of completion for stuff that HAS been added.
plain vigil
The art team was done with legion by the time 7.2 released as hinted by the release of the update for Wendigos and Troggs (per them not being used in legion and slowly updated for BFA)
sour burrow
Plus Blizzard has, in the past, delayed raid launch until after xmas holidays.
plain vigil
If the story is hinting it, I think they planned to release the new season mid patch post break.
plain vigil
8.3 has a lot of story buildup. Killing N'zoth 2 weeks after the patch drops is not a good idea. So release mid/late November. Raid comes january
We will know the end of BFA roughlt by blizzcon opening ceremony
sour burrow
Right. It's either patch drops mid November (doable but unsure) with raid start of December, or patch drops Early December with raid Early January.
plain vigil
Raid won't drop before breaks (remember US has Thanksgiving) so I'm looking at patch drop day after blizzcon followed by a raid release in January. Story looks to point at a long buildup before we can actually enter the raid (due to the fact that we have to slowly get used to the insanity of Ny'Alotha in the mage tower/withered training/chrome style events
sour burrow
I see patch drop being after Thanksgiving, personally. 1.5 months of no raid after patch is too long. Better to delay the patch itself in that case. Polish it more. :P
plain vigil
Assuming we're getting an expansion announcement expect a 9.0 demo at blizzcon. They've done a demo for the past 2 blizzcons.
V true
strange falcon
if they've blown their content now,they MUST have an expac announcement at bcon
or it ends up like last year's diablo section
pine stirrup
hmm.. i mean, i don't think that calia will create new undeads by using the light... idk - have you read "before the storm" ? it looks like it's only possible by using the naaru...
ofc the question will be, how will new undeads be created then...? 
sour burrow
I haven't, which is why I asked.
What Naaru are left atm? Would any be open to the idea? Heh.
plain vigil
The Naaru could still bring up more undead... After all healing them isn't the same as resurrecting them. And Calia has direct access to the Narru. It's quite literally under the battle of Lordaeron.
The Naaru that brought her back was the one in the priest order hall. Which begs the question, were there alternate motives to the SoL?
'The Alabaster Undead'
The Illgynoth quote "the blind queen holds a scepter of bone" Calia not only looks like Lady justice, but she's the same class too.
The vestimates of "blind absolution" shows the light breaking the blindness.
I'd love to see a holy cult that worships Calia
sour burrow
Just saying that there's enough openings for it to happen in the same way there are definitely openings to Sethrak joining the Alliance. Plot DOES have to happen, but it's not unreasonable.
pine stirrup
Is that a raven in the background? 
smoky mural
Just rename the forsaken so we can completely kill them off
sudden oak
Just call them the redeemed and make them alliance 
oak wraith
Release date for the raid also depends on how "done" most people are with the previous raid.
uncut vault
something interesting, a few NPCs in mechagon city use an unused mechagnome customization
just the eyes replaced
sullen dawn
calia better not join the horde
unless they're about to remove the factions, it feels weird as hell with Calia ruling the forsaken
rather than alliance light undead
uncut vault
tulip sun
Calia isn't alliance
sullen dawn
I never said she was alliance
But she should be
She should either run i) run type of light undead on alliance, ii) an offshoot of forsaken who want to return to their lorderon roots and turn alliance, or iii) rule all undead if factions are removed
But having her as forsaken leader on horde is silly if factions remain
zealous basalt
She won't be
sullen dawn
Especially with derek going with her
zealous basalt
And it doesn't make sense for her to be Alliance either
dense plover
She isn’t running the forsaken
The audio makes it clear
Lillian seeks her out to get help from someone with leadership experience
sullen dawn
Oh? Good, I thought it made it seem like she was taking over
dense plover
But even Calia thinks Lillian should lead
sullen dawn
After llillian said she wont lead
dense plover
Lillian doesn’t want to
sullen dawn
I hope you're right
dense plover
But then Calia says that she will help, because she owes her people, but she thinks Lillian should lead
sullen dawn
Calia should be alliance, or lorderon if horde/alliance break down
terse patrol
So who is the golden one who takes the vacant throne
dark furnace
Doesn't Calia take the Alliance undead? Like the Night Elf undeads?
dark furnace
In the broadcast text
sullen dawn
Yeh, But alliance leaning neutral
dense plover
She is helping new, non-horde undead transition
She is very much supposed to be a neutral middleman
sullen dawn
I'd like to see her bring back the lorderon culture
sullen dawn
Her menthil family is the most interesting part about her
dense plover
We only got tiny bits
sullen dawn
Yep, I saw that. That's what got me excited
dense plover
Don’t take anything too seriously yet
Bits of the Lillian VO make it sound like Lillian is just scared and apologetic
sullen dawn
I assume well get some idea for 8.3.5
dense plover
And wants to help the forsaken
It really seems like they are positioning her as leader
Not Calia
dense plover
They’re using Calia and Derek as a way to bring the factions together
sullen dawn
And I really like the calia character dont get me wrong
terse patrol
Calia is implied to take the throne though
dense plover
And as a way to humanize the undead
sullen dawn
Yeh, just like gazlowe and gnomes at end of op mechagon
dense plover
No she isn’t - the VO makes it sound like she doesn’t want to take the throne. She just wants to help people
terse patrol
The ilgynoth quote
sullen dawn
They talk about looking forward to working together again
sullen dawn
Hopefully they mean the lorderon throne
terse patrol
How many golden ones are there
terse patrol
And how many vacant thrones
sullen dawn
That's what got me a bit worried
dense plover
It doesn’t mean she is gonna be leader
Returning to her home and retaking her throne could be a thing but it doesn’t mean she has to lead the forsaken
terse patrol
Why are we discounting Alliance Light Undead
zealous basalt
Restore the house of memethil without taking formal leadership
I don't think there are going to be light undead at this point
Although something troubles me a little
dense plover
Because there’s no evidence of any other light undead and Calia’s circumstances were extremely specific
zealous basalt
When you say "Helping in undead transition" you mean the old undead? Because I don't see how can Undead wake up without Sylvanas and their valkyr anymore
terse patrol
<_> We arent even done with the expansion
tropic trail
@dense plover , did you listen to a different version of the Calia quests or why you think they building up Lilian as the leader?
because its exactly the opposite
sullen dawn
I mean guesses currently are redeemed and dark fallen for final allied races
Maybe the final allied races come as factions merge and calia acts as a bridge across the two
tropic trail
When Lilian talks to Gre yah she makes clear she dont want to lead the Forsaken, but she knows someone who could
then the Calia quest happens
terse patrol
“She is not the last, but the first.”
sullen dawn
Which is why I talked avijt this originally
I really don't want calia to simply be forsaken leader on horde
It's a complete waste
tropic trail
I dont know to what you did listen, but everything right now is pointing to Calia taking the lead
and not Lilian
terse patrol
That clearly implies more like Calia are coming.
Who else could that be pertaining to?
sullen dawn
Exactly
tropic trail
Lightbound Undead, the Redeemed? Spoiler alert?
tropic trail
Will there even be an 8.3.5?
sullen dawn
Yeh
dense plover
Yes
sullen dawn
With 2 allied races likely
terse patrol
Its already referenced in the files
sullen dawn
In preorder
dense plover
Well, last two might come with prepatch tbh
sullen dawn
Some quest content
dense plover
Really depends
tropic trail
I expect 8.5 to be the last patch of BfA
terse patrol
Undead and Worgen are the last two without corresponding AR’s.
sullen dawn
In legion 7.3.5 gave us allied races
dense plover
Curious question of what they plan to do after too
terse patrol
what
sullen dawn
So 8.3.5 might give us faction merge or level squish
terse patrol
I assume you mean 8.3.5
sullen dawn
As a 'preview feature'for 9.0
Worked well last time as content between 7.3.5 and 8 0
dense plover
Like, what they plan to do with ARs after - if they want to keep making them, they need to clear the space for them
terse patrol
There is absolutely NO WAY there will be five major patches in BFA.
sullen dawn
He means 8.3.5
terse patrol
Blizzard is on the two year expac model now.
sullen dawn
Obvs
Just curious what the preview feature will be in 8.3.5 to keep us going until 9.0
My guess is faction changes
dense plover
It’s possible
There’s a bunch of assets for purple faction things
And the login emblem is a curious addition
dense plover
That definitely wouldn’t be necessary otherwise
terse patrol
Purple is a superior color anyways.
dense plover
I like it - could work assuming they let you pick a side each expansion
dense plover
Like - start of expac you do an intro quest and then pick a story side
sullen dawn
*neutral
dense plover
Probably not unless they only have 1 story
They might
Would allow for a deeper story
terse patrol
One story would be easier for them.
Also, it gives the illusion of more contnet
Content
A lot of people dont play both sides
dense plover
I mean, per character it technically would be
terse patrol
Which was part of the issue with BFA
dense plover
One longer chain instead of 2 shorter ones
And a more focused story
And that would mean everyone would have the same unified reason for doing raids and dungeons
round lake
or itll have you make choices which changes te outcome of said story
dense plover
Unlikely
Story outcome doesn’t really work in an mmo like wow
Especially when the goal is a linear story
With big moments
tropic trail
I still think Tyrande will start another war
dense plover
She might
It would be fitting and would be good to give the night elves their wild hearts back
They used to be vicious
terse patrol
Or she becomes Maiev 2.
tropic trail
And racist
terse patrol
I’m getting the feeling Maiev and Tyrande are going to be switching places. @dense plover
Tyrande’s lost faith.
tropic trail
Especially to orcs
dense plover
Idk - Maiev might not be relevant anymore
Also Tyrande is trying to seek out around
terse patrol
Ehh, she was in Darkshore. She’s as relevant as Shandris.
dense plover
Elune
tropic trail
Undead night elves allied race? Spoiler alert?
dense plover
Unlikely
sullen dawn
I disagree a lot
The thing in legion with each class having their own story is one of the coolest things they did
It's ok for people not to see story content, making it only available to certain choices
terse patrol
Idk. Between Shandris, Maiev, and Tyrande, I think they’re prepping for Shandris to lead the neutral Night Elves. Maiev might side with Shandris, since she’s kinda been humbled over the last expansion or two.
tropic trail
I loved Legion
sullen dawn
Encourages alt play and builds immersion
terse patrol
Tyrande is going to leas the Black Moon though.
Which I assume will be the “pvp” faction for Alliance.
dense plover
I’m not saying they should do less story and I think having a story choice system would be nice - I think having two entire faction questlines on top of the special questline is a lot
tropic trail
Gilneans might help them too!
dense plover
IE instead of a faction continent story and war campaign, if there was one consistent story and then a story based on a choice
So one story is the same for everyone
And then the side stories are different based on some kind of choice system
tropic trail
Have you noticed that the quests in PTR use the chatboxes for the quest text?
tropic trail
Instead of the usual quest pannel
tropic trail
Er... hol' up
dense plover
K
zealous basalt
Hax
zealous basalt
That is an addon
tropic trail
Oh
zealous basalt
I think it is immersion
tropic trail
I got so excited for that
zealous basalt
There there
sullen dawn
They could make a smaller centralized story
To give more room for other types of storytelling (choice/alignment specific)
Like it's silly putting most if the story work into the levelling experience
Front ending it to the start of the expansion and making it the same for most people
Like if bfa was 70% levelling story, 29% end game story, 1% choice based story
They should do 30% levelling, 40% end game, 30% choice stuff
tropic trail
I agree with you, end game should have more story
dense plover
Woah hell no
I pay for the expac for the leveling story
I love the leveling
I think the current ratio is fine, I just think patches should have more story
dense plover
It isn’t tho
dense plover
That’s why they put so much work into it
zealous basalt
And if the quests are boring... Like tbc ones
That's why I never touch Outland in leveling
zealous basalt
Fuck the Fjord
zealous basalt
One second
tropic trail
Ugh, he's put me on ignore!
dense plover
I love howling fjord
But tbf, horde questline there is much better than alliance
Alliance see the worst parts of that zone
tropic trail
Too bad for me then, huh? I only play Alliance
zealous basalt
The
Story about human starts is nice
But after that the pacing sends you everywhere
Me likes a pretty order in story
tropic trail
wait so is tyrande really going insane
Don't you have Northrend flying right away though?
zealous basalt
Yes
And thanks I have it
Also
I don't know why are people surprised if Tyrande goes on a dark road
She accepted it when she became a tool of vengeance
tropic trail
I'm surprised she hasn't earlier
zealous basalt
Like it's a general rule
tropic trail
I’m not surprised I’m just kind of excited. like thank god she finally snapped
zealous basalt
If you get a dark pattern of a certain source it is obvious you can become a little off the head
It won't surprise me if she stops getting rational
And become more emotive
tropic trail
tyrande tosses me into the void for asking her how her day was
I'm glad what Varian taught her in MoP didn't stay
zealous basalt
That's a thing
People get pissed because of it but forget that Tyrande killed her own wardens when she disobeyed Malfurion and did her own thing, even if at the end it "worked"
tropic trail
I keep forgetting about Varian. it’s probably because I haven’t been here through the full span of WoW but sometimes I’m like oh yeah Varian existed
zealous basalt
Still I called it when I read the whole "Night Warrior is an avatar of Elune's vengeance"
And since she has lots of hate in her heart
Well
That makes up for a pretty antihero
tropic trail
what’s Illidan been up to
tropic trail
maybe he’ll reappear in the malfurion/tyrande divorce questline
zealous basalt
tropic trail
that was a joke
tropic trail
oh ok sorry I’ll work on it
tropic trail
I think it’s about time we had a divorce in the WoW storyline
Hurry Genn say something mean to your wife
tropic trail
oh that’s true
whatever happened to that night elf baby that Mia saved in the Teldrassil fire
dense plover
Probably with the other night elves
forest sphinx
Good morning folks
tropic trail
I think it was from the novelization
dense plover
Don’t think it will be significant
tropic trail
Good morning
dense plover
Morning
forest sphinx
How are we all doing today?
tropic trail
Tyrande named her Finel I thought it was sweet. I hope they do something with her but probably not
I’m doing ok, thank you for asking :)
dense plover
Bored waiting for a new build
wise crest
I wanna say Calia will bring an AR
dense plover
I really expected one
wise crest
Cause the prospect of her leading the forsaken just sounds wack
dense plover
Again, they’re clearly positioning Lillian to take over with Calia’s support
wise crest
I hope so.
forest sphinx
So is there not a questline for 8.3 yet?
wise crest
Lilian saying she will be a voice for her people but won't rule them has me a bit concerned.
dense plover
I could see Calia leading the lordaeron forsaken and Lillian being the faction representative for the new council
Nope
forest sphinx
That has to be coming soon then I'd imagine
wise crest
I would lose like all interest in the forsaken lore if they just have Calia come in as this magic fixit for the forsaken.
dense plover
Soon TM
I don’t see her as that
She is very intent on paying her dues to her people, the lordaeronians
Not all forsaken
But she wants to help them
And she clearly believes Lillian’s cause is just
dense plover
I think Lillian doesn’t want to be leader
But Calia thinks she should be
And Calia will help her
wise crest
The fact the writers know people see Lillian as a better candidate so they tossed in a line from Lilian saying she doesn't wanna be a leader is just yikes
I agree.
Hopefully
dense plover
I don’t think they just tossed it in
wise crest
Lilian will reluctantly embrace the role
Like Vol'jin becoming Warchief
It'll be a moments realization kind of thing.
Maybe even Amalia might prompt her.
forest sphinx
I will be pissed if they do what they did to Vol'Jin to Lillian
dense plover
I truly think that they want to have a story around how Lillian doesn’t want to be leader but she actually would be good at it, and Calia who would be a good leader but knows she shouldn’t be because she isn’t representative
They make a good pair
I could definitely see them working together to lead
wise crest
At the very least.
dense plover
Maybe create a new forsaken council
wise crest
They imply Lilian is on the Horde council.
Which is nice.
"I will be a voice for my people but I will not rule them." seems to hint that Lilian is the forsaken rep on the council
dense plover
Well, she helped Sylvanas do some terrible things
And she doesn’t want to be that person
wise crest
Lilian would be the best option forsaken have.
dense plover
I think if Calia can show her how to not repeat Sylvanas’s mistakes and how to lead, they could slowly change her character
wise crest
She doesn't ruin their image, she represents the forsaken struggle and helps steer the narrative away from Sylvanas.
dense plover
Again, having them lead together or having Calia be a representative for the undead to both factions as a sort of middleman
wise crest
I actually kind of anticipate them playing Calia as a light zealot.
dense plover
I don’t
wise crest
"The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring darkness."
dense plover
Her voice over is too gentle
wise crest
So is Yrels.
dense plover
Yeah but that doesn’t mean she does it on purpose
wise crest
So was Xe'ras.
dense plover
Yrel was never gentle
wise crest
If they're playing the Light as an antagonist.
"The Light has made a bargain with the enemy of all." = Undeath
dense plover
They don’t need her to be the aggressor for the light to be the antagonist
Also undeath is not the enemy of all
wise crest
I don't mean she's gonna be aggressive.
I mean she's gonna be incredibly focused on the Light.
dense plover
I could see it where they like, take over her body and use her as a way to push the light
But so far she hasn’t been any kind of zealot
She is very human
That’s the point of her character
wise crest
Come, find peace : ) in the light : ) join me : ) my brothers and sisters : )
dense plover
It wouldn’t make sense
wise crest
It wouldn't make sense... for a Light worshipper, to turn fanatical?
dense plover
All of the zealot characters have been people who pushed the light from the start
dense plover
Uh
Half her VO was about the light
Literally
None of Calia’s is
Not one line
She is faithful, but she has seen the dangers
She is friends with Faol
She knows the depths of the light
And the risks
If that whisper comes true, I don’t see it happening as her decision but as either the light being the aggressor and using her, or her using the light to help and losing herself to it inadvertently
tropic trail
"Not one line" is wrong
she literally says "By the light" when she sees the elf undeads on the meeting
dense plover
Ok you got me
tropic trail
dense plover
But my point is that she talks more about who she is than the light itself
sullen dawn
People only pay for the levelling story because that's what they've been conditioned too
dense plover
I like the leveling story
sullen dawn
I'm not talking about getting rid of story, just spreading it more evenly
And encouraging more alt play
dense plover
I like leveling - at least post Warlords
That’s when the leveling experience is the most fun IMO
sullen dawn
Ideally they'd have both, but I'm talking about it from a 'with current resources'perspective
Like I love levelling story roo
dense plover
With current resources, if they only had 1 main story instead of 2, they could increase end game story without cutting leveling story
sullen dawn
True
dense plover
BfA had 2 main stories and 2 side stories
sullen dawn
I'm just arguing that the levelling story is over pretty quickly and is super front loaded
dense plover
If they had 1 main story and 2 side stories, it would work better
dense plover
It would be better if it wasn’t being pushed half through a side story
If the main story was unified for all players, and then the side story was a choice, it would lead to better story overall
sullen dawn
Problem then is it's the same for every alt
dense plover
That’s why you have a choice
sullen dawn
I'm arguing the 'same for everyone's parts should mostly be restricted to like 40%
dense plover
I mean, as is, BfA has 2 stories, horde and alliance
I’m just saying keep the concept of the two separate war campaigns, but get rid of the horde and alliance separate leveling stories
sullen dawn
Yeh legion shows that's good
wise crest
Twitter
dense plover
Make one leveling story that is slightly more than the current one, which would still leave more resources for side and endgame stuff
sullen dawn
Allowed for them to do class campaigns
tropic trail
I wish we would get a Time skip for the next xpac
sullen dawn
I wouldn't say more
dense plover
There is no precedent for mechagnome shamans
sullen dawn
I think 4 zones is the max for levelling story
dense plover
They literally enslave elementals and mechanize them
wise crest
I really hope Blizz give junkers shaman
sullen dawn
Rather than bfas 6 (3+3)
dense plover
The dungeon I think
wise crest
Also. I mean. Quite literally we have dark iron and goblin shamans.
dense plover
Unless I’m mistaken, in which case there are none
Dark Iron are shamans at their core
dense plover
Like, before the enslavement they were shamans
wise crest
The thread details why I think it's possible
dense plover
And only a subset did that
It’s not tho
They literally choose machines over nature
wise crest
Meanwhile vulpera have nothing to indicate shaman, warlock or mage but yet here they are
dense plover
They have a mechanical garden
Vulpera live in the wilds at one with the elements
They make perfect sense as shaman
Mechagon literally has a robot garden
They don’t even have plants
Let alone elementals
Goblins have no excuse
It’s just weird
But mechagnomes don’t make sense as shaman
Just like they don’t make sense as Druids
wise crest
Again. Read the thread.
dense plover
Again, no excuse for goblins, I don’t think they should be shamans either
wise crest
You're thinking traditional shaman
dense plover
Yes because that’s all shamans are in wow
round lake
to me they barely make sense to be priests as well but hey whatever
dense plover
I can see them using the light
wise crest
Except we've seen non traditional shamans
dense plover
They don’t use the the void
dense plover
Like, tide sages as in the playable ones use shamanism by praying to the elements
wise crest
Goblin shamans literally bargain with the elements
wise crest
Anyway.
wise crest
I'm hoping Blizz give junkers shamans
dense plover
What does that image have to do with shamans?
wise crest
dense plover
The thread already starts wrong
He isn’t talking about synthesizing elements
He is talking about empowering the ones you have
And creating electricity is not the same as calling on magic
Anyone gnome can use a big battery to zap stuff
That’s not shamanism
That’s engineering
Those aren’t totems - they are too big and don’t match the shape of any totem stuff
wise crest
dense plover
Yeah enhancing internal reservoirs, creating lava
None of that is shamanism
That’s literally engineering
wise crest
We've created pumps that tap into that personal reservoir.
Try internal forges to keep you fueled up.
They're literally talking about synthesising elements
dense plover
It has nothing to do with the elements
terse patrol
Ok so.
wise crest
You're insisting on viewing this as traditional shamanism.
terse patrol
I just had a thought.
wise crest
I'm talking about it being a non traditional variation
Same abilities different source.
Like how Zandalari paladins don't draw on the Light but gain their power from loa worship
dense plover
Like all of the stuff you are describing is essentially saying - hey, tinker class buts it’s just a skin for shamans
That’s not similar
Different power source is not the same as totally different powers
wise crest
You're insisting on far too rigid a view of shamanism.
dense plover
I make electricity with the battery is not the same as electricity from an electricity elemental
Vs Smiting an enemy
wise crest
I'm talking about something that emulates the abilities.
dense plover
The smite is the same
Yeah you are essentially saying Tinkers but they function like shamans
Wow has never done that
wise crest
????
dense plover
Not for a playable character
wise crest
Oh well. Removing void elf Holy priests.
terse patrol
“The blind queen wields a scepter of bone. From the deep she calls forth doom.” What if that refers to Tyrande, blinded to the light of Elune (as per the End Time dungeon)?
dense plover
They are the same as normal holy priests
flint meteor
i dont think we will see tinkers any time soon
blizz always ties the new classes with the xpac theme
wise crest
Anyway.
dense plover
The eithrr tinker or shadow hunter next expac
terse patrol
We don’t know what Tyrande is up to.
limber mural
i'd play shadow hunter
wise crest
I hope Blizz consider shamans for mechagnomes is all.
limber mural
shame i'm a lightforged
dense plover
Or they could do the other thing people have suggested
Instead of a new class add spec variety
Like spec skins with 1-2 new abilities
Functionally similar to a prestige class in a way
Shadow hunters, blood mage, warden, etc
tropic trail
shadow hunter?
like what voljin is?
unlikely
next xpac class is most likely gonna be tinker, or something similiar to a dark ranger/undead based class
dense plover
Voljin worshipped bwonsamdi - shadow hunter would fit if we are going to shadowlands
Or again, just add a prestige class system
tropic trail
shadow hunter has like no lore build up this xpac except Voljins questline
not even compareable to Tinker or Undead based class
dense plover
I see tinker as the most likely
tropic trail
me 2
tropic trail
I would prefer something death related =/
dense plover
I mean, DH only had 2 races so it’s not like a ton of races need it
Except how do you do that for the alliance?
Unless it’s like DKs
Where a ton of people die in the raid and in BfA in general and are then raised by someone
tropic trail
Could be go similiar with DKs way or the undead races will be splitted into alliance and horde
Forsaken ruled by Calia - alliance and forsaken ruled by voss - horde
undead nelfs and undead helfs/belfs
dense plover
Well next class is guaranteed as a hero class
They aren’t gonna make a new artifact
And it won’t be elves Tilted
tropic trail
Agree
dense plover
The last class was Elf only
tropic trail
I know
thats why I see Tinker as the most likely class
but I would prefer a death related class
I really dont want to play a god damn furry
if Tinker will be a thing, I hope it will be playable for goblins, undeads or even belfs
fuck that class if its gonna force me to play a damn furry 
languid yoke
no belf tinkers, they got enough classes
tinkers will definitely be goblins on horde tho
tropic trail
But lore wise Belf and undead would make sense
languid yoke
so you can play that if you're so racist owo (like a belf)
languid yoke
goblins, orcs, maghar, vulpera and dwarves, gnomes, did, megs
dense plover
And uh probably 1 other
languid yoke
horde for m+, alliance for raid
tropic trail
I thought you played always only WOrgen/alliance
flint meteor
if its shadowlands its gonna be death themed
languid yoke
I do play worgen a lot but I also atm play a lot of my horde panda and zandalari
round lake
The one thing im wondering will we get a new class or will we go ahead and get a change to the class systems now like a prestige style class or something along those lines
dull flame
im hoping for level squish
ancient jasper
My big thing with the level squish.. How are Hero Classes going to work with that?
And are you going to drop Allied Races level from 20 if it is capped at 60?
dark furnace
They will probably half everything
ancient jasper
And would you drop the level you get Mount training at because it would be far worse to get Mount at 20 when 60 is the cap and Fast Mount at 40 and Flying at.. 60.
dark furnace
Death Knights at level 23, Demon Hunters at 49 and Allied Races at lvl 10
zealous basalt
What be talking bout
dark furnace
Level squish
ancient jasper
If Blizzard does pull a level squish
There are a shitton of logistics they're going to have to deal with
uncut lintel
i dont think its a good idea
zealous basalt
I think it's a hard decision
ancient jasper
The 3 things I mentioned are only probably 1/5th of the crap they'd have to deal with
zealous basalt
Either continue with the current flow and add 10 more levels... The leveling would be boring after 100...i mean, it is already with not having anything good in Legion
Or turn to 60
Honestly tho if the 60 squish happens
uncut lintel
why not just leave it at 120 forever?
zealous basalt
I will have to relevel my characters to get the hang of it
round lake
leveling to 120 is daunting/annoying enough already. Next would be either 130 , it just doesnt look good. Unless instead of leveling they go ahead and have you unlock chapters and when you unlock those chapters you can get skills/abilities what have you
ancient jasper
I'm just worried if Blizzard DOES go the 60 route they'll use that as an even bigger excuse to never add any more talents or skills to the game and things are going to get VERY boring
round lake
they could add levels in the sense of the neck and our weapons in legion. A prestige system in a way but it does seem the squish is something they want to do
storm marsh
Can someone explain me the datamined model of nzoth and why isnt his size bigger? Did they make him smaller for boss fight?
limber mural
well him being like 9 blocks each side wouldn't make for such an interesting fight
so many fights in wow are just hitting a leg as is
round lake
I can see us being pulled into him or his mind something like that
limber mural
well uh
that is what happens
it's very similar to yogg-saron from a glance at the dungeon guide
round lake
ah ok yea I havent read that yet
limber mural
welp rip you
round lake
lol
unborn glacier
Someone posted a size comparison recently
He is utterly massive compared to a human male character
dense plover
It’s not necessarily final
And is probably within a vision, not actually fighting him
round lake
So do you think they build on the communities function or leave it as is next expac
dense plover
I mean, they already did some great changes in 8.3
Specifically with finding a guild
And how people share their guilds
sullen dawn
im not sure why theyd add 10 levels (up to 70) after squishing to 60
surely squishing to 60 would also bring about 'no more levels' and instead alternate long term progression mechanics
otherwise it's just gonna have the same issue again in a few years, also make people feel like theyre re-levelling
why repeat the past?
upper remnant
I had this idea once
Loosing our levels feel bads so what if a player only had to level to 60 and then he would have a level boost to max level
dense plover
It would be 5 if they squish
dense plover
If they change the level ranges from 10 to 5 or 20 to 10 it works
Time to level probably wouldn’t change
sullen dawn
if they squish to 60, 60 should stay the max for ever
dense plover
So a secondary progression system would need to be added
night swift
Also blizz is making that 120 boost
dense plover
God no
sullen dawn
create other methods of progressing
dense plover
Fuck that
sullen dawn
much better design
dense plover
It wouldn’t work
sullen dawn
sure it would
dense plover
Look at all the successful MMOs
sullen dawn
ESL?
sullen dawn
it's one of the three big ones
dense plover
In comparison
sullen dawn
WoW, FF15, ESL
night swift
ESO, FF14
dense plover
I like leveling I’m certainly not the only one
night swift
Eso has a good post 50 level system
sullen dawn
yes
night swift
But they’re also planning to rework it
dense plover
I have no problem with a level squish, but we need more talents either way
sullen dawn
the markets best imo JHock
night swift
Then ff14 has no real end game level prog
sullen dawn
wow could learn a lot from ESO (systems wise not combat/lore/art cos wow knocks it out of the park there)
night swift
Since its just “switch to a new class”
Eso’s combat feels more engaging but its combat would never work in wow
sullen dawn
personally i prefer wows, but i do enjoy esos
anyway im more talking about from a systems design perspective (levelling, progession, rewards, choice etc..)
night swift
Yeah
sullen dawn
i believe wow should squish to 60 and follow ESOs lead in terms of sideways/diagonal progession after that point (but wows own twists of course, no need to copy 1:1)
like maybe an alignment system where you can level up you alignement with death/life/light/void/order/chaos for 30 levels
night swift
Level to 60, unlock talents 2.0, similar to classic talents
sullen dawn
giving new skills/passives etc..
imagine a full RPG talent system in wow 😮
with big complex trees
and multple viable builds per class
sullen dawn
ya
round lake
a balancing nightmare where the entire player base bitches because their class is not viable
night swift
Teah I feel like it’d be harder for wow since it has like 12 classes
While eso has half that
sullen dawn
Wow will never be balanced though
It's like chasing the dragon, you can never have perfect balance
They should accept that and just add cool stuff. Sure some builds will be better than others but at least the metas will be emergent and require experimentation
oak wraith
I like the way GW2 does levelling + post max level ('horizontal') progression, but their whole ecosystem is built for it. No gear treadmill like WoW has, too. Not something you can easily patch onto WoW.
sullen dawn
I agree progression and rewards as a whole needs to be looked at
Not one thing in isolation
Gear is currently a big issue in wow. It has little to no value (its throw away)
night swift
When they make a machine that lets you literally throw away any gear you dont need and get crafting mats out of it you know theres an issue with gear income
sullen dawn
that...but also the fact that gear is just stat sticks that you know is gonna disappear next patch (i know they did some cool items in CoS raid that hint at improvements in that area but core issue was still there)
round lake
Professions def need to be made to actually have worth to them, I mean the best way to go is alchemy crafting professions like LW and tailoring have little use IMO
night swift
Crafted gear serves little use
sullen dawn
it'd be cool if gear over expansions was still relevant, and instead of just straight up buffing you, helped you customise your playstyle
limber mural
Unless you're raiding and making consolation progress gear from mats
sullen dawn
so you might have 2 items from 9.0, 4 from 9.1, 3 from 9.2, and maybe even trinkets from the last expansion
to compliment your build
maybe upgrade stones drop in 9.1 raid so you can upgrade 9.0 items to current ilvl because the effect it gives fits your build
for e.g.
limber mural
So like Destiny sort of
sullen dawn
not sure, havent played D2
but for example, theres a cannon trinket (summon a cannon that fires at enemies) that i'd love to use on my current outlaw rogue
but it's 8.0 drop so it's useless
now thats more of a flavour thing, but some of the items from CoS hint towards build utility too
for example stacking this with a build that encourages you stay at high health
round lake
which is why they added things like TF so you keep playing tht content and hope for an upgrade of said item. But that system just feels bad
night swift
Remember when nighthold has bis stuff all the way till the end of legion
sullen dawn
and having to loot the same item multiple times
night swift
Why can’t we have stuff like that again
sullen dawn
yeh..
i dont mind expansion resets tbf
but patch ones suck
if i got a staff with my favourite effect ever (perfect for my playstyle) id like to kee it until next expansion
round lake
bottom line gears acquired to quick and becomes useless shortly after
night swift
If blizz allowed to do what destiny does and take old weaker gear, and take a higher level piece and just meld it to the old piece to increase the stats and ilvl
To let old .0 items with unique effects stay relevant
sullen dawn
would be good
good idea actually, cos itd sitll enoucrage peole to want the new drops
dense plover
ok, major issue im noticing
once you complete the cache, it seems its a weekly lockout
which means the zone is just some WQs maybe
thats BAD
zealous basalt
TJ noticed it before
zealous basalt
but can you get vision stuff?
dense plover
thats also a weekly lockout
it really feels like youll still be grinding WQs in naz
zealous basalt
what the
dense plover
and just going to these zones sometimes
zealous basalt
the currency is on a weekly lockout?
dense plover
i think you can do the major visions
OH, no the currency isnty
i thought you meant the gate thing
zealous basalt
no no
dense plover
right now you cant see the WQs, so grinding the materials is hard
dense plover
because its not active
and it might not have a skybox
so far only the nzoth one has a skybox
upper remnant
Did they remake the whole zone like Darkshore and Arathi ?
modest temple
I think they just added stuff on top of it. Cata zones probably don't need much to look better. I'm glad we are going back to Uldum, it felt so underused. Blind queen/scepter of bone could be Talanji. I don't remember her breaking her pact with Bwonsamdi, scepters are often visual of power and Bwom is all skulls and bones. Blind may just mean she doesn't see the bigger picture or the truth behind things. The truth behind her loa/power? Who's Bwoms boss? It's probably just the OGs looking at here and saying "Yeah... shes got no clue."
calm plank
do we have any new whispers from good ol' Il'gynoth?
dense plover
thx
plain meteor
ionic terrace
They aren't
dense plover
UH
Bolvar?
those might be old tbh
but theyre encrypted
so its definitely weird
nope
novel zodiac
come one shadowlands
dense plover
added in 8.3
dont bank on shadowlands
could be finally finishing out the voljin story
or developing taelia's story
novel zodiac
all i want is an old world revamp
dense plover
unlikely