lol
#beta-ptr-spoilers
languid yoke
sullen dawn
saying there is no 8.3 is not fun, and is just stuid
sullen dawn
uldir was amazing
dense plover
The bosses were engaging and the environments were awesome
sullen dawn
BoD is S tier
zealous basalt
Raids were amazing
sullen dawn
i admit eternal palace is a bit lacklusture, but its not bad by any means
tranquil steeple
I honestly haven't liked any of the armor in bfa
languid yoke
it wasn't great either, definitely not better than the first set of Cata raids. BoD was definitely one of the best raids, agreed
tranquil steeple
the raids were still interesting, though
languid yoke
like BoD and Firelands definitely should be in the top 5 of best wow raids imo
dense plover
Like there are a few things blizz is currently unable to fuck up - raids, zones, music, art. Those are not things we need to worry about anymore
languid yoke
Eternal Palace is fun until Azshara
sullen dawn
they got those items on lock
languid yoke
slightly less fun but still fun there
zealous basalt
The should rework some armors from the past
dense plover
Currently the main concerns with wow; classes and talents, writing, end game significance
sullen dawn
yeh its systems design and story really
languid yoke
(still mad it's horde-only)
dense plover
The writing should get better assuming that Golden was in full command for 9.0
sullen dawn
and even the story isnt bad, it just takes huge jumps of faith and skips most important details
dense plover
Considering she joined late in BfA development
Is in full command
Scuse my tenses
tulip sun
dense plover
I expect she is up towards the top
sullen dawn
is feasel head of story or golden?
dense plover
And has had more impact as we have gotten further in the expac
It’s why individual character stories have improved so much
tropic trail
Golden is not even part of the wow team
dense plover
Yes she is
tropic trail
Golden don't works for blizzard btw
sullen dawn
she contracts I thought?
dense plover
She became a part of the writing team
tropic trail
She tweeted that herself
sullen dawn
the business arrangement is irrelevant
tropic trail
Some days ago
tropic trail
She has no impact on the story decisions, all she does is the writing
sullen dawn
ah, so feasel = lore/direction, golden = actual low level writing
dense plover
I doubt that - she likely has influence, but even if she doesn’t make any decisions, the writing has gotten better
A writer can make a big difference
sullen dawn
oh agreed
tropic trail
Alex Afrasiabi = Lore
terse patrol
Why do people say WoD’s world building was shit? I’ll agree I don’t like everything after the founding of the Iron Horde, but all the detail they added to the Orcs, Ogres, Arakkoa, and Draenei was awesome.
Prior to WoD, all Orc clans were basically the same.
zealous basalt
Has been eons since I saw "Multiple people are typing" in here
sullen dawn
people hyped now that the drought is over makore
tropic trail
That's right, good writing can make the overall story better. But again, she just writes . She doesn't have any power over the story directions and the plots
She bagged Afrasiabi to make Calia a thing, because it was planned that someone else would play calias role
terse patrol
Is it true that the game director chooses the general path of the story and the writers have to make it work?
terse patrol
That’s terrible if that’s the case. But it would explain Teldrassil.
tropic trail
The story has to fit with the new gameplay content
terse patrol
“We need a big flashy event to sell copies.”
zealous basalt
Don't give mah boi Ion shit bruh
It's far better than making an orc some green Jesus
sullen dawn
Marketing driven storytelling
terse patrol
wot
sullen dawn
Tbf that's how a lot of the entertainment industry works
terse patrol
saying Ion is better than Metzen
jade basalt
The only real leaks we've had were completely out there. And they were detailed.
People did not believe in the Cata one. Why? Because it was completely out there. It had nothing to do with WotLK.
Deathwing? Planes?
It entirely consisted in "new" things. And that doesn't make sense to a current player. We feel like the story should be like a book. But it's how expansions work. Suddenly, everything's different. Cata is completely different from WotLK.
If you look back, none of the expansions had anything to do with each other. At best, and that's recent, you will have a short bridge with a short story or novel, maybe an in-game event, but that's about it.
MoP was completely different from Cata, besides the continuation of the Alliance v Horde feud.
WoD was completely different from MoP, besides Garrosh serving as a temporary link.
Legion was completely different from WoD, besides Gul'dan serving as a temporary link.
BFA was completely different from WoD, besides, I guess, the sword of Sargeras serving as a temporary link.
You have one tiny element that connects the two just to kick-start the expansion, and then that's it. The rest of the expansion has little to nothing to do with the previous one (from a worldbuilding or storywise point of view I mean).
That's why those real leaks were not considered true. They were "out there". They contained original developments, something that fake leaks usually don't have. Fake leaks just have logical continuations, logical next steps. They're predictable. You can tell someone is just writing them based on the current story. If a leak is made 90% of things we already know, characters that are already current, and not made of new plots, but the continuation of existing plots, then that probably means it was made by a fan, because the "leaker" is, just like you, basing things off current material, instead of creating new stories.
So when a leak does not contain an ounce of original development, like 99% of them, it's a big red flag. Even worse if there's no original creation at all, i.e new races, creatures, etc.
They usually just re-use existing creatures. Ethereals, Old Gods, whatever. Which can be true, but if, for example, you went back in time and wanted to leak MoP, what woul you do? You would probably mention the mogu. Or the mantid and the sha and so on. For WoD you'd mention a lot of things, but also random things for worldbuilding like the giants, the saberon (in fact, they were mentioned) and so on.
sullen dawn
At least in movies and games
zealous basalt
Ofuc
jade basalt
Same things for zones. If you pay attention, you'll notice that most leaks re-use or refer to existing names to name new zones. "Tyrande's Peak" or "N'Zoth's whatever". That's pretty rare in-game, so having entire zones and subzones named only after existing things? Doubt it. Specially if Shadowlands is true, you can bet you'll see brand new original names.
If there's little to nothing "new" in a leak then I am questioning it severely, because expansions always bring new elements. They are only made of new elements.
Now the Shadowlands or the Void are interesting because they have been heavily foreshadowed. Draenor, Pandaria, etc. were not. So any leak that mentions them will probably be a bit "correct". But then again people have been predicting South Seas, or Kul Tiras or Zandalar for a dozen years, and eventually it did happen, although nothing like anyone predicted.
tranquil steeple
the feel when MyMind basically slaps everybody else off the stage and goes "you gon' learn today, kids"
zealous basalt
We needed you yesterday, friendo
green laurel
makore needed you because he can't make a good argument if his life depended on it
terse patrol
Let’s not today.
tranquil steeple
let's atleast wait until tomorrow before starting that again.
with the whole end of the war campaign and whatnot
green laurel
also just so we're clear, the things this person is saying do not line up with your logic
zealous basalt
At least I admit it and don't feed of others like a leech
green laurel
this person is saying your line of logic that "because its not happened before, it can never happen in the future" is never the case for any expansion
terse patrol
zealous basalt
And I'm quite sure the mods say drop it yesterday
green laurel
no pretty sure they said to be nice
terse patrol
Don’t make fun. I wish I could play a blood elf like him.
zealous basalt
But their face is horrible
green laurel
the welcome rules page says the encourage healthy debate, they just prefer you not call people monkeys because they respond to your bad arguments
terse patrol
green laurel
stay bitter
meager zodiac
pff that is more bald than hair ahahhaha
tropic trail
Dodge the paradox
meager zodiac
lucious malfoy wants his look back
tropic trail
And let's wait until tomorrow
zealous basalt
I will have to buy a new AC charger
dense plover
I actually got pretty close with my guess for BfA when we found out via the Kul tiras armor leak
Back in 7.3
zealous basalt
But wasn't that datamined?
dense plover
The armor piece
But I predicted both KT and Zandalar
And Nazjatar
Tho I expected it to be raised from the sea
I said Nzoth was gonna be freed
green laurel
who didnt know nzoth was gonna be freed
zealous basalt
Many people
green laurel
you?
dense plover
And I predicted some of the other possible islands - dragon isles, plunder isle
We never saw plunder isle
Dragon isles might still happen
zealous basalt
I expected him to be free since I saw the crucible
But what I would like to know is
dense plover
I predicted it back in 7.3
zealous basalt
What do we do with the God damn eye
zealous basalt
But they said it won't be a old God xpac
dense plover
I was pretty damn close
green laurel
eye?
zealous basalt
Gift
zealous basalt
That would be interesting
green laurel
heres some crazy tinfoil hat idea
theres a brew you can buy from brewfest called spirit spirits
it basically just changes the skybox to be like the death version
its description says it gives you a glimpse into the spirit realm
dense plover
Anyone mind fetching my image from 02-06-2018?
green laurel
now im not saying the shadowlands is a thing, but if it were a thing, that would be a really tinfoil way of easter egging it in some random spot
green laurel
like you just drink that shit and it reveals some thing in some random spot in the world
zealous basalt
That one where you got hyped when your prediction got true
dense plover
Yes
zealous basalt
No
dense plover
I believe I said something along the lines of “I love being right” XD
zealous basalt
And I'm not going to scroll
dense plover
Doesn’t allow you to copy images on mobile tho
zealous basalt
Oh it doesn't let me search your words in that date
Can't you screen shot your whole phone
green laurel
you can save images on mobile what
green laurel
just press and hold the image
green laurel
is there not a jump to button on mobile
dense plover
Which is impossible in this channel
No - it just takes you back to where you are in chat
tranquil steeple
I'm tryin'
was this it? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/406285497846071306/410577837528055808/ZandalarPrediction.png
dense plover
Nzoth stuff was later I think
zealous basalt
And we joked about you going to brozzard
dense plover
Yeah
Nobody believed they would do both
Even I was skeptical
But I didn’t see Kul Tiras for horde
And I was right
dense plover
I predicted Nazjatar and Azshara raisiny it - she removed the water instead - close second
zealous basalt
They too ugly to be leveled
I made a bad joke with a friend that wasn't OK with how thick the necks are
uncut lintel
chonky neck best neck
tranquil steeple
o boi
uncut lintel
xDD
vernal juniper
hey
does anyone remember if I can link old accounts with raf or I need to make a new one?
To be able to use the +50% exp bonus
tranquil steeple
I think it said
zealous basalt
Old accounts that were innactive for 2 years
tranquil steeple
2 year+ inactive, or fresh accounts
vernal juniper
damn
dense plover
Woah - why is EU so expensive?
vernal juniper
Wrong question
dense plover
US is way cheaper
zealous basalt
Probably in EU people buy more tokens with gold?
storm marsh
Question: I'm honored with Honorbound on my horde character, with 8.2.5 it means that I will be able to finish war campaign without needing to get to exalted?
vernal juniper
If I'm not wrong they removed every requirement for war campain
forest sphinx
Did they?
vernal juniper
Quests and World Quests
World Quests and Missions now offer gold or war resources instead of Artifact Power to players who can no longer progress their Heart of Azeroth (level 70).
War Campaign Updates
All reputation requirements have been removed from the following War Campaign quests:
Horde:“A Stroll Through a Cemetery,” “Tracking Tidesages,” “Journey to the Middle of Nowhere,” “When a Plan Comes Together,” “A Mech for a Goblin,” “Breaking Out Ashvane,” and “War Is Here.”
Alliance:“Crippling the Horde,” “Our Next Target,” “Intercepted Orders” “Bringing Down the Fleet,” “Sensitive Intel,” “The Abyssal Scepter,” and “The Fall of Zuldazar.”
Players are no longer required to level a Nazjatar companion to level 3 to access the War Campaign quest “Stay of Execution.”
Oh nice! That's awesome
I've been away for the past week and haven't been able to keep up with anything news related. Today is my first day back in the saddle for Warcraft anything.
storm marsh
Awesome
sullen dawn
You've arrived back just in time
green laurel
oh shit did you guys know bwonsamdi literally admits he has a boss that he works for? I never knew that
i thought that was just a straight theory from no where
green laurel
well i just did the vol'jin questline for the first time and at the end he freaks out cause the spirit is missing
and he says "the boss aint gonna like dis"
sullen dawn
Or mueh'zala
craggy nexus
But then he becomes the Loa of kings and doesn't have to worry about that any more. I don't know if he doesn't have to worry about "the boss" anymore, but he is now the Loa of kings.
green laurel
why cant he be both?
sullen dawn
I doubt hes free of any prior bonds
green laurel
he was already considered the loa of death beforehand and was a henchman to a higher power
sullen dawn
Even if hes in a better place now that's he zandalari loa as well as darkspear
green laurel
so why would also becoming another loa change that necessarily
sullen dawn
It wouldn't probably
sullen dawn
Hes not the loa of kings now btw
sullen dawn
Hes just the zandalari patron loa as it were. Hes still loa of death
Maybe mueh'zala?
sullen dawn
Although I wouldn't write hakkar off, there could be loa that are more powerful than others
dense plover
Maybe Helya but it doesn’t quite fit his MO
dense plover
If he had hakkar on his side, he wouldn’t be against the blood trolls, ghuun, or scared of The trex loa
No hakkar is a loa
sullen dawn
Isnt it implied mueh'zala is the entity that gifted odyn with sight jnto the shadowlands. I reckon he and hakkar are pretty damn powerful- more so than loa in the mortal realm
dense plover
It’s just unclear how he became one
sullen dawn
He was against the blood trolls cos they embraced the void
Or at least an offshoot of void
dense plover
He was like a winged serpent that ate stuff and then became a loa - hakkar is super weird
sullen dawn
Yeh we don't know enough about hakkar or mueh'zala I think
green laurel
hes definitely different as he had to be summoned in almost a forceful way that caused the blood blague
blague
dense plover
But he is also a major enemy of the zandalari
green laurel
lmao
sullen dawn
But imo mueh'zala is gonna be a pretty big deal at least
green laurel
they could be the same thing
dense plover
That’s more likely than Hakkar
sullen dawn
Hakkar is prolly like first raid boss of an expansion material. Unless they're the same entity
dense plover
Bwonsamdi’s actions wouldn’t make sense if he was working for Hakkar
green laurel
explain pls
dense plover
Tbh if anywhere Hakkar would’ve made the most sense in Uldir or this expac in general
green laurel
im interested in this
sullen dawn
I dunno. Hakkar would prolly be pretty mad at blood trolls for following ghuun
sullen dawn
Ghuun is void aligned
dense plover
Consume, focus on blood
sullen dawn
Hakkar death
dense plover
Yeah they’re similar not the same
green laurel
but just because theyre similar doesnt mean they wouldnt have conflicting motives
sullen dawn
Hakkar wouldn't want some fake old God taking his souls/followers
dense plover
I could imagine blood trolls switching to Hakkar now that ghuun is dead
green laurel
in fact i would say the fact that theyre similar is reason as to why hakkar would hate ghuun
hakkar sees that as insulting
sullen dawn
They might operate similarly but they definitely would be compeating
dense plover
I don’t think we have ever seen Hakkars motives - does he ever talk?
sullen dawn
I mean they used to follow him
dense plover
Yeah they might switch back now that their false god is dead
green laurel
i mean it seems pretty basic god stuff to see other gods doing your job as totally not good
sullen dawn
Agreed tj
dense plover
But I don’t expect to see Hakkar in next expac - we just got an entire troll expac
No way we see a huge focus on trolls
sullen dawn
Ghuun the parasite comes along and steals your souls - I wouldn't be happy
dense plover
He doesn’t want the souls
Ghuun wants the rot and bodies
He doesn’t care about souls
Didn’t
He dead now
tropic trail
I think its likely we will see Bwons boss next xpac, since Im pretty sure it will be heavily death related
and much more of bolvar
green laurel
I agree if they did that blizzard would need to be very careful to avoid the burnout on troll-ness we've already had for the past year
dense plover
I don’t see us going death if the focus is on Nzoth
sullen dawn
Yeh next expansion definitely gonna be death vs void a plot, dragons b plot
green laurel
idk about you guys but the troll aesthetic wore off for me so long ago
tropic trail
And I dont see a black empire xpac =/
dense plover
Why would it be death and void? Why waste two concepts?
That’s too much
Save the death stuff for later
tropic trail
I dont know
dense plover
Focus on the old gods
tropic trail
Its just I feel like they dont gonna do a Black Empire xpac
dense plover
Focus on Nzoth - the only time an old god has ever been freed
This is a massive fucking deal
green laurel
the black empire expansion would be an azeroth revamp imo
sullen dawn
Yeh
green laurel
not a new zone thing
dense plover
I disagree
sullen dawn
Agree
tropic trail
well is it? I think Argus was a much bigger deal
dense plover
I don’t see them doing a revamp ever again
tropic trail
Im sure Argus is a lot stronger then an old god
dense plover
Yes a free old god is bigger
sullen dawn
Revamp will definitely come at some point
tropic trail
and yes, we had help I know
green laurel
I read a theory on reddit awhile ago that seemed pretty sound for why a revamp is coming
sullen dawn
Ek kalimdor is from another age now
It's not sustainable
Prolly 10.0 tho
Reoriginiation/titans vs blackempire
dense plover
I don’t see it happening any faster than right now - a few zones each expac
green laurel
it mentioned how all of the content that has been released up till this point in bfa are assets they could easily reuse in azeroth as world revamp assets
green laurel
i'll try to find it
sullen dawn
Exactly TJ
dense plover
They’re different sizes and the hit boxes are different
green laurel
dense plover
They would have to painstakingly go through every zone
green laurel
theres just so much setup
dense plover
Make sure all npcs are correct
green laurel
read that thread its a good read
dense plover
It saves art time - it doesn’t save zone creation time
And it takes time away from new zone creation and new art
stiff vector
i mean yeah anything bigger than a plant cant be simply replaced
dense plover
^
This is the issue
Every building has to be manually replaced
Every npc has to be checked
Every quest
It’s a massive endeavor
stiff vector
lets start by moving the TBC zones into the normal world
green laurel
i dont think they would like totally go in an surgically replace things, they would just redo it
stiff vector
that'll make me happy enough for starters
dense plover
They would have to TJ
green laurel
because they have the phase system now or whatever
where you can optionally go back and forth
stiff vector
there's your proof right there its a bit more work than just replacing assets
dense plover
Because none of the old quests are in the new one
Because it would take even more time
green laurel
most of the revamped things released recently have had the whole "talk to a chrom dragon and go back" option
dense plover
They changed a bunch of the zone because it was empty
stiff vector
yeah but if your point is them redoing kalimdor/azeroth
dense plover
That’s not what I’m saying TJ
stiff vector
using the dragon to go back defeats that
dense plover
^
green laurel
say what?
stiff vector
because everyone would still have to level up in them?
dense plover
^
stiff vector
then why make the new zones
stiff vector
so at both low level and high level?
green laurel
im confused at the contradiction
no just like how we have now
at low level you start in old version
and once you get to the story point
it switches
stiff vector
if they do the time skip thing sure maybe that could work
dense plover
Why not just an entirely new set of zones?
green laurel
its literally what theyve done before man idk im not a blizz dev
green laurel
you're asking me why would they do this kind of content i cant tell you that
stiff vector
i mean it could
dense plover
I don’t expect it soon tho
green laurel
I mean theyve done it with 2 zones just for this expac
dense plover
They’re clearly currently trying a few zones at a time model
green laurel
that already has 4 other zones in it now
dense plover
The zone redos are pretty basic
No quests, not much of anything
Doing that for both continents would take a long time
And the stuff still wouldn’t have content
stiff vector
only thing i have against the whole thing is that having 2 versions of both continents is a big technical debt
dense plover
Currently the redone zones are just graphical overhauls and mob spawns - there are 0 quests or story or any engaging content
stiff vector
i mean there's quests
world quests are just quests
nothing really different about them
dense plover
You mean the basic WQs? Yeah
stiff vector
still gather and kill quests in the end
dense plover
But they are of limited engagement
tranquil steeple
hell
dense plover
Which is fine because you only see them for a few days every 2 weeks
green laurel
okay this sounds lame but there are hundreds of azeroth old world quests that could be converted to upscaled versions if they did a revamp
stiff vector
for sure yeah
tranquil steeple
there are quests in updated darkshore... in an instanced version where you can't fly, aka fully separate area than the actual zone
tranquil steeple
which is honestly kinda weird compared to arathi highlands
tranquil steeple
where you can pick up quests and fly around
dense plover
Yes but that’s functionally what darkshore is too
tranquil steeple
(provided your faction holds the zone currently)
green laurel
every zone is a linear questline in terms of the "story progress" you see
dense plover
Like both warfront zones share that feature
The darkshore questline is a scenario
Not a zone worth of quests
Redone darkshore would wear pretty thin if it was
green laurel
I love it when a zones storyline has like different groups of seemingly unrelated storylines, and then they culminate to a bigger picture which ends in some finale
dense plover
Because it hasn’t changed much
terse patrol
I’d hate to have the entire world replaced by warfronts in each zone, or some sort of similar WQ based system.
green laurel
as if a zone has an underlying theme or motif, and you discover it through journeying and completing the whole picture
dense plover
This is an amazing example of you think you do but you don’t
terse patrol
Where all zones become hollow experiences.
sullen dawn
I don't think it is
dense plover
It sounds great in one sentence but thought out it’s a fucking awful idea with extremely low impact on end game player experience
green laurel
there are so many lame ways they could and would fuck it up yeah
sullen dawn
I think it's an example of you think you don't but you do
green laurel
im talking about story structure of some zones here lol
sullen dawn
Critically needed by 10.0
dense plover
Like you leveled in all those zones - going back to them over and over for an entire expac you would get sick of them
They eventually need to be redone for leveling
But not for endgame
sullen dawn
Well I imagine end game and levelling content (in the world) will eventually be the same
Like in ESl
It's a really strong model
*ESL
sullen dawn
Its amazing
dense plover
Level scaling made the game a lot better - being able to go through a variety of zones is nice. But the focus for next expac doesn’t need to be on the leveling experience
It needs to be on max level quest balance and end game
sullen dawn
You don't really in ESL, because you can go do anything at any point, every characters journey is unique
green laurel
i think I agree completely peach
sullen dawn
Fix classes and get end game right
dense plover
I want next expac to make classes feel good, the grind feel meaningful, and the alt experience actually possible
sullen dawn
Agree
dense plover
Maybe redo a couple of the more awful zones along the way
sullen dawn
It's a higher priority than revamp
green laurel
what if they had it so that quests were less completely about progressing your level, while at the same time were not required to repeat for every alt
sullen dawn
Bu revamp need is getting more critical
That's the ESL model TJ
Quests are purely about story and xp, you can do whatever you want
dense plover
IMO the zones that need to be redone the most are blasted lands, ashenvale, barrens (north and south) and dustwallow
green laurel
its depressing to think about cause you know it would never happen because really its what drives boost sales
dense plover
idk I don’t think it needs to be a priority ¯_(ツ)_/¯
sullen dawn
Agree to disagree then
dense plover
That’s like, something that should happen over an expansion
And probably not so soon
sullen dawn
Already EK and kalimdor are dated AF
dense plover
Like, gilneas should come first
sullen dawn
90% of the world is just useless
dense plover
Lol, Outland is way worst
sullen dawn
And this is the 'world'of warcraft
Sure but at least outland is kinda dead lore wise
green laurel
i would be okay if they gave alliance lorderon back just so they quit crying
sullen dawn
They could just abandon that
dense plover
I mean, I think if anything they should keep old zones - just make it work with the story
sullen dawn
not good enough imo
dense plover
Start at BC, go to wrath, then cata - you can choose any of the cata zones including old world
Then MoP, WoD (or just straight to legion tbh) and then bfa
green laurel
idk what you mean now
dense plover
Especially if they do a level squish
Change the starting experience - get a bronze dragon involved and make the story linearly logical
Redoing the visuals in an mmo is always going to be low priority
Because it takes so much time
green laurel
agree
sullen dawn
the vision (prolly over a few expansions) should be stick TBC,wotlk, cata, mists in CoT - rework EK/kalimdor/northrend and pandaria (less so than others) to reflect current quality of zones
green laurel
visuals mean nothing to me now honestly
sullen dawn
draneor can stay as is zone wise
then update the story across all of them to be more 'evegreen'
dense plover
Redoing elwynn for example would be pretty fast assuming they leave out all quests
Yeah that would take forever
Because you are redoing the ground, textures, buildings, npcs, quests, dialogue, VO
sullen dawn
and from then on, dont add new continents with expansions, just evolve trh world, add a zone or two per patch
dense plover
Like, that’s 3-4 expacs of content
sullen dawn
oh i agree
green laurel
i agree w you peach they should try to rework things so that new players can experience the storyline of wows expansions linearly while at the same time keeping them enthralled by it rather than it being a forced slog
dense plover
And the payoff is super limited - as cata showed
dense plover
Yes it is
sullen dawn
its not
dense plover
Go play classic, then play retail
sullen dawn
revamping from classic was WAAAY harder
dense plover
It made a world of difference
sullen dawn
due to the way classic was made
dense plover
Lol, they wouldn’t keep the same quests are redoing the zones
It’s functionally equivalent
sullen dawn
theyd have a much easier time now, plus their team is waaay bigger,they have a lot of assets, their production processes are stronger
dense plover
Except the team is bigger now
green laurel
idk what ur talking about now
dense plover
Assets don’t change quest time
dense plover
Building the zone is the easiest part
green laurel
what if they took the leveling structure of Bfa and applied it to all expansions
dense plover
The zones get finished long before the quests and dialogue
sullen dawn
what evidence is there to say art is faster than quest development?
dense plover
All of the dev interviews
stiff vector
also
dense plover
Store mounts
sullen dawn
i agree game engine systems take a while (like adding the world quests enginer)
stiff vector
apples and oranges please
sullen dawn
can you point to specific interviews please?
dense plover
I’m talking about taking an old zone and upgrading - assuming they have all the assets done
green laurel
also honestly a big part of this would HAVE to include the option to do old raids at the proper difficulty
sullen dawn
quest wise?
green laurel
you're missing out on 50% of the story if you're not doing the raids of the old expacs
sullen dawn
ok that takes time i agree, but i dont think as much as you think
dense plover
It is
sullen dawn
you can stick them in CoT TJ
dense plover
That’s why cata took forever
sullen dawn
again, false equivelancy
green laurel
disagree toby that takes away from it so much
dense plover
They had to rewrite an entire 60 levels
sullen dawn
for the reasons i listed above
dense plover
Rewriting that many quests takes forever
If you want to make it evergreen, the current quests don’t work
sullen dawn
what took them ages in cata was the world
dense plover
They all occurred during cata
green laurel
imagine going to the dark temple with a raid group to go actually fight it as a new player
would be so lit
sullen dawn
i get that - thats why the next set of quests need to be prodominatly 'time' agnostic
dense plover
Dude, they had to write thousands of new quests
They aren’t going to do that again ON TOP of a new expac storyline and WQs
green laurel
world quests are just quests
dense plover
Redoing the old world would mean functionally skipping a new expac
sullen dawn
theyve said the hardest part was redoing the world from classic, which in a lot of cases was FUBAR for flying due to way it was initially designed for classic
thats fine by me
sullen dawn
the more new zones they add, the bigger the gap in quality between new vs old
they need a new benchmark level of quality
dense plover
That would mean more than 3 years of no new content
dull flame
on a serious are these old world quests newly written or did they bundle them up into a story ?
dense plover
That would kill the game
sullen dawn
the old zones would BE the new content
dense plover
Yeah that would suck
dense plover
Because you level in them
sullen dawn
so?
dense plover
You already experience them
green laurel
theyre different tho
sullen dawn
you might go through like 4 zones levelling
dense plover
That’s why WQs work - you only spend 2-3 levels in each zone
green laurel
wait are we still discussing this in the context of the black empire or
dense plover
I completely disagree
sullen dawn
especially with stat squish
dense plover
I have to go - I have work
sullen dawn
its not really something to disagree with, its an idea, not an observation
like you can not like the idea
im 'pitching' this i guess, more than anything
green laurel
theres so many cool things they could do as to change the new player experience and open up the entire world as doable content
sullen dawn
in summary - take the ESL model of levelling VS end game (open world), turn the whole world into a playground relevant at all levels, upgrade EK,kalimdor/northrend/pandari, CoT the rest, add cool 'events' that happen across the world over time alongside evergreen content that doesnt feel weird story wise in a few years
yes!
green laurel
you have to think about it from the perspective of a new player or someone who maybe started playing anytime after cata - even though they may just be making old content replayable for people who played back then, they would also be releasing effectively a handful of actual expansions for new players
sullen dawn
thats my point TJ :
green laurel
for new players now, the only content is bfa
green laurel
yes
sullen dawn
which sucks
green laurel
and all of the old content is pointless and is only seen as leveling
sullen dawn
given we're supposed to the be in the 'world' of warcraft
not the world of 'power through 90% of the world' and then spend all your time in 6 zones
levelling doesnt even feel like part of the game any more
feels like a giant tutorial
seperate from the main game
green laurel
really my agenda here is that I only started playing like 2 years ago late in legion, and want to raid in old raids 😡
sullen dawn
CoT and a good reward mechanism (aside from mogs) for old raids could solve that
green laurel
i never even raided in legion raids so i basically STARTED in bfa
sullen dawn
timewalking is a good first step
green laurel
oh yeah i know but thats lamer than lame lol
green laurel
a timed event of sub part rewards only one expansion at a time in limited instances..
green laurel
when i first heard of timewalking i was so excited and the let down was so hard when i found out what it actually was
an idea ive had before would be if they had the level squish down to 60, they could have the entire world level scaled to max level but with linear level floors to force leveling linearly
on top of that, have an account-wide exp buff for each expansion recieved for doing loremaster for each expac
ideally it would give you an exp buff for the next following expansion, so as to encourage moving on to the next one because it will give you more exp
dungeons and raids would all scale to 60 with proper item level rewards
idk theres so many nuanced things that would need to be handled but thats my starting point of how they could improve the game
sullen dawn
The squish opens a lot of doors design wise I agree
I think people don't realise how valuable it will be for the game in terms of creating design space/long term game health. Same with a potential revamp
Anyway gonna take a step back from this channel till wednesday
Enjoy the patch tomorrow any Americans on here :) see ya on the other side
And no hard feelings peach, good to get into heated debates ;)
ancient jasper
I'm worried that a level squish is going to screw over people soloing old content considering how badly they messed up the iLvl squishes.
tropic trail
wait
we will have 8 h maintance tomorrow?
thats from 16:00 to 00:00 for me
it will probably last 4hrs
its not a really big patch..
I hope so
zealous basalt
Sup everyone
pulsar iris
hi mak
green laurel
in that case maintenance will literally be 9 to 5 here, a full work day
zealous basalt
Damn it
green laurel
hopefully thats to make up for the fact that there wont be any timegating on the story 
ancient jasper
Yea for the longest time maintenance usually was 8 hours. Longer on Patch days.
green laurel
y'know with party sync doing old raids scaled is a lot easier now
👀
not the same though, level squish kinda tainted how difficult everything is
tropic trail
I'm not going to wait that long! Gonna start with the Sunwell trilogy that arrived today 
The art style is total shit btw
Too anime for me
tropic trail
I know, I bought them because I never read them
And it's always nice to have all the wow Lore stuff in your collection
zealous basalt
I'm sad I can't get any of those in my area
tropic trail
Why? You don't have internet ? 
green laurel
those covers look sick
tropic trail
Like Amazon . It's cheap as hell there
green laurel
do you just not like anime art style?
tropic trail
Yes I don't like anime art or anime in general
junior prairie
I see a war of parrots vs pugs coming
@stiff vector Also again ty marla for all your amazing work ❤ 💙
green laurel
can someone explain the context for me pls 
stiff vector
I mine things
zealous basalt
Wait, so they baited?
stiff vector
They're trying to not have things minable
junior prairie
Marla opened his trench coat of secrets to Jeremy and Jeremy hid them in his van
green laurel
oh so you're saying they might have misdirected your mining efforts?
stiff vector
I wouldn't be surprised.
junior prairie
Probably, but also prob was looking at the data-stuff mined and worked on that prob keeping stuff away from marla
green laurel
thats interesting
zealous basalt
Damn they really want to hide things
green laurel
i'd love to learn about how that all works like what you might look for when you start on projects like this
zealous basalt
Makes thing more interesting
junior prairie
they really do, they sneaky hobbisites
green laurel
so is jeremy saying you're intentionally keeping things a secret or just that youve helped them anticipate miners
junior prairie
More like Jeremy looked on how marla's stuff works (or least how stuff get's data-mined) and they used that to help them encrypt, that's my theory
stiff vector
I'm sure I've helped map out all the things that were leaking references
But there's more to come
green laurel
stiff vector
It'll keep being an ever increasingly harder rope pulling contest
junior prairie
Am I close marla? 😄 @stiff vector
dense plover
I don’t think they plan to switch to no data mining
But they definitely are working to lock down the things they want locked down
green laurel
like adblock developers and the websites that sell online advertisements
stiff vector
Probably yeah @junior prairie
green laurel
a constant struggle
stiff vector
All my stuff is publicly available
So it wouldn't have been hard for them to check what I check for references
junior prairie
woot ty marla 😄
dense plover
Which?
ionic terrace
Baine
ionic terrace
Prob because I did it like3 times on PTR
Another reason why i'm happy they didn't unlock it
uncut vault
I’m worried Blizz is gonna continue the trend of “pseudo hiding the loyalist option”
Cause the first time through in the PTR for 8.2 I didn’t see it
So now we’re going live without knowing lol
tropic trail
thats also something that annoyed me
they were "hiding" the loyalist option on purpose
ionic terrace
idk what it even was
ionic terrace
Might be a good idea to turn off WM if you have it on before tomorrow
or Wednesday 😛
round lake
Im wondering if this is going to be a big let down
dense plover
Well, two guaranteed cinematics
round lake
getting hyped is good and albeit fun Im just concerned its gonna play out poorly
dense plover
I don’t expect the actual questline to be too long, but who knows
I mean there’s still an entire patch after
So it just needs to frame the transition
uncut vault
I expect the whole thing to be long
just in segments
I have just barely enough faith in them to do literally anything to introduce calia to the playersa s a whole before throwing her at Sylvanas
tropic trail
@uncut vault do you believe that they want to make Calia the leader of the forsaken? Because I beviele she is going to be an AR leader
That's the most logical conclusion for me
pulsar iris
yas
zealous basalt
I love the new thing they added
long blade
No she isnt
green laurel
she leads the light undead?
long blade
There is no light undead
shes the only one of her kind
She leads no faction
shes sister of Arthas and thats it
restive pasture
Twitter
dense plover
its ok
either way, we only have to wait like 14 hours now, assuming maintenance takes the full time slot
frigid crater
dense plover
im gonna go to sleep - make that time go by faster and also allows me to function as a human being
restive pasture
so close yet so far
tropic trail
tropic trail
And what do you recommend if you just woke up? Sleep again?
uncut vault
Yes
tranquil steeple
if you haven't been awake for 15-30 min
it's easy to fall asleep again.. so yes.
vernal juniper
so when is the live for NA servers?
green laurel
a long time from now
vernal juniper
2000 hidden things are a lot
vernal juniper
Twitter
green laurel
oh well thats not really much
green laurel
no theres a damn 8 hour long maintenance
just to make sure none of us play the game too much tomorrow
vernal juniper
well is 8 hours confirmed or max to 8 hours
green laurel
its just the time period stated on the maintenance warning
vernal juniper
usually on bfa on previus patch the time was set at 8 hours but it took max 2-3 hours
green laurel
look at bnet
vernal juniper
I guess this will be longer but I don't think it will be 8 hours
green laurel
maybe if i sleep through most of it now
i will wake up dead in the shadowlands
and be in the next expac
that'd be great
vernal juniper
it should be shorter than 8.2
we have no new zones, only new quests and visual stuffs
on what it seems
sullen dawn
i dunno the party sync thing seems quite technical
strange falcon
Has US already got 8.2.5?
tranquil steeple
maintenance might have started, but that should be about it, I think
oak wraith
And lasts for 8 or so?
upper remnant
oak wraith
Yep. Better to be shorter than longer than announced.
tropic trail
I saw that gymnastic math on a other discord shared
confirmed that Sylvanas actually did not powerslided into meele range? 
uncut vault
She never did, it’s just a meme that I hope nobody actually believes
tropic trail
ofc not, I was memeing too
storm marsh
In how many hours does the patch go live in US?
tropic trail
in 3h is maintance
if we assume that they are gonna be really fast and need just 2hrs, 5
but I would not count on that
tropic trail
no
sudden oak
sadly people truly believe she powerslided towards arthas
terse patrol
I still think the fight should have been done differently.
I liked my idea better of her harassing Arthas with arrows, pissing him off.
Then he death grips her straight onto Frostmourne.
dense plover
i mean
that cinematic is 100% editorialized
its a summary of events
not how it literally happened
tender cradle
HAhah, this is hilarious. Is there more?
terse patrol
Makani’s tumblr.
dense plover
thats my point tho
that short is not about accuracy
its not a reinterpreting of events
its a summary/editorial of them
terse patrol
Her version of Three Sisters so far has been by far superior to the other.
what you think? @dense plover
dense plover
i think that three sisters was actually decent
the sylvanas cinematic, as long as you dont treat it as 100% accurate, is also very nice
terse patrol
smoky mural
tropic trail
the problem about the 3 sister comic was just the art style
terse patrol
terse patrol
I just don’t understand why Blizzard let the guy do their comic.
terse patrol
Like, you do a really well done, heart felt comic.
Then release the Three Sisters.
dense plover
yeah
art style for that was great
the writing for three sisters was fine
a skilled artist should go through and redo it
terse patrol
I mean, just compare these two.
Eh, Makani even rewrote it in a couple areas and it worked much better. @dense plover
terse patrol
Yeah, the children aren’t horrifying hobbit beings.
storm marsh
I dk if this was discussed earlier, many ppl said everything will be time gated, but Muffinus said he will do a live stream today to see our reactions so I guess we're definetly getting 1 juicy cinematic at launch
dense plover
no
thats not what he said
he said WE should livestream
so he can watch out reactions
there wont be timegating
theres no reason
8.3 isnt anytime soon
on a related note - maintenance has started
storm marsh
Oh
uncut lintel
O-O
storm marsh
Well if there wont be any time gating, im glad 😁
fathom schooner
Hey guys
Is it a thing where they reduce the AP needed for heart levels every .5 patch?
Pretty sure they did that last 2 seasons
Kind of like a catchup since it’s the halfway mark
tropic trail
next week they stop the catch up
dense plover
^
round lake
if I had to guess id say oct14-19 will be some sort of 8.3 reveal/discussion
dense plover
build has been pushed
tropic trail
yup
uncut lintel
whats that mean
dense plover
it means the exe is updated on retail to 8.2.5
uncut lintel
ooo
dense plover
and youll be able to play on the servers once theyre up
uncut lintel
cool thx
ionic terrace
oOo
ionic terrace
I know
uncut lintel
rip
sullen dawn
90 mins min to 7 1/2 hrs max
ionic terrace
I doubt it
sullen dawn
Doubt what?
uncut lintel
i dont think ima be alive when it even comes out bcuz im dying rn
sullen dawn
Prolly somewhere in between those too
ionic terrace
Lately it’s been eight hours just so they have a bit of extra time
If they need it
dense plover
might be much sooner
8.2 finished after like 1.5-2 hours
and that was a major patch
tropic trail
Im optimistic and say 1.5-2 h
dense plover
they just give themselves that much time so if something goes wrong, people cant say they werent warned
stiff vector
unsure if srs
tropic trail
forest sphinx
With how small of a patch this is, I don’t see the servers being down that long
stiff vector
RIP
there could be stuff on the backend that needs changing
especially after all those DDOS countermeasures
dense plover
^
if anything thats where all the time is going
but, server list is showing
so its definitely coming soon
because it wasnt showing 3 min ago
tropic trail
yeah
uncut lintel
hype
tropic trail
lets hope Party Sync doesnt mess anything up..
uncut lintel
shhh dont jinx it
ancient jasper
Bloody hell Token is up to 182k now
tropic trail
it was 181 yestarday :p
ancient jasper
So much for using Tokens for game time at this rate.. x_x
dense plover
actually
dense plover
for the past week it has an average 24hr fluctuation of 10k