Seems fair to me
#beta-ptr-spoilers
inner copper
terse patrol
I get the feeling the new dark rangers won’t be loyal long term.
Don’t be surprised if Delaryn shoots Sylvanas.
inner copper
pretty sure its forced mind control
no way they'd switch sides 2 seconds after being risen
terse patrol
Unless its bad writing
uncut vault
It isnt mind control
tropic trail
it isnt mind ctontroll
we have 2 quests that totaly destroy that theory about mind controll
- the Valkyre raised only willing souls in the darkshore quests, other souls refused to be rezzed
- with the derek quest we see sylvanas or the valkyre cant just mind controll without a long "ritual"
uncut vault
but it is possible that the counterpart to light undead are undead elves. It hasn't been implemented or finished yet, but in 8.1.5, a questline involving Dark Ranger Velonara, who is the most prominent high elven dark ranger outside of Sylvanas, taking on a new, male apprentice, who will likely have a name revealed
In that same questline, we will encounter a small band of scarlets, who have propoganda books talking about Calia and the Alliance
Im hoping it comes back in 8.2, since calia will likely actually be in the story, so the books will make more sense to more people
lone marten
Have a look
meager zodiac
its a joke, but at this point id take anything
unborn glacier
@tropic trail Thank you! So many just gloss right over this.
uncut vault
It’s just a justification people try to push because of their dislike for the canon
Despite all story pointing to Sylvanas having no way of mind controlling those risen by the Val’kyr
uncut vault
Which in itself shows she cannot mind control them, as she cannot raise fully functional undead herself, and is not the power source of the Val’kyr
dense plover
Which is much harder and can’t be done enmasse
And yeah
She essentially just creates a puppet
It’s not a real undead
unborn glacier
Jeeze, at least you guys understand. I've wasted too much time in YouTube comment sections trying to get people to actually acknowledge the established canon, but they refuse to with a Multitude of mental gymnastics.
terse patrol
You have to admit theres conflicting information especially in Cataclysm.
“DONT LET THEM TURN YOU.” dies, gets raised
salutes the Horde after killing their friends
unborn glacier
You watch Hirus video on how saurfang isn't honorable? I know it's his "April Fool's" video, but he raises all the good arguments against Saurfang
terse patrol
No rage
unborn glacier
@terse patrol You mean, you can say one thing outwardly but believe another completely?! My word!
It is established that only willing souls can be brought back
terse patrol
Thats new lore
All corpses were raised in Cataclysm.
None “didnt want to come back.”
That’s a cop out Blizzard made in BFA.
unborn glacier
You are just trying to get around the lore. There is zero proof those raised in cata was done so against their will
dense plover
Retcon, not copout
jade basalt
Honk isn't wrong, in that questline they were clearly mindcontrolled or at least, mind-screwed. They were fighting/fleeing the undead for their lives, literally screaming and yelling to not let the undead "turn" them. Then after they die, they get raised, so they get up and immediately start killing their friends and salute the undead.
As for val'kyr requiring willing souls, that was basically never a thing, this is new from BFA. Before that val'kyr just raised literally anyone they wanted.
dense plover
Didn’t they also say that undead are initially kinda kooky
Like when they are first raised they aren’t quite there
jade basalt
Yup. Basically, until BFA, val'kyr just raised people, regardless of if they're willing or not. They just raised people en masse, as the Forsaken dug out graveyards and stuff. When someone is first raised, they sometimes entered a state of confusion, which the Forsaken use to direct them against their enemies. When it subsides, they have the "choice" to go back to the grave, or join the Forsaken.
jade basalt
Now, in BFA, during Darkshore, the val'kyr only raise the "willing souls", for some unknown, stupid reason. But there's ways to reconcile that with previous lore I guess, maybe it was just easier/cheaper/faster to raise willing ones than unwilling ones, maybe the Forsaken and Sylvanas wanted loyal dark rangers and not ones that would turn against them or run away immediately, so they only raised the willing ones, so on.
terse patrol
@jade basalt It just makes no sense.
All those souls get to become wisps. But instead, they choose to help the people who are genociding their people?
How are there any willing souls at all?
Honestly, I think they changed that in the beta because they keep chickening out on Sylvanas being outright evil.
jade basalt
It's a bit weird.. Red Shirt Guy had included that in his article on why Darkshore's story was messed up during 8.1 PTR, I think, but I guess that bit was overlooked (perhaps intentionally).
But I guess the story is not over. They said we'll see some more of Delaryn (and probably Sira and dark rangers) in the future. Maybe we'll learn more. Maybe Delaryn isn't so loyal after all. Or maybe her head truly was messed up by death. And so on.
terse patrol
My hope is they reveal Delaryn is going to lead a coup with her dark rangers.
Delaryn does mirror Sylvanas.
Also
@jade basalt Doesnt Sylvanas only have one resurrects worth of Valkyr left?
“When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall.”
Delaryn shoots Sylvanas like Sylvanas shot Arthas.
jade basalt
Can't really say
Depends on the val'kyr's "strength", it seems. Annhylde was the most powerful of all 9 val'kyr, so she herself was enough to bring her back once. Another time it took 3 val'kyr to bring her back.
terse patrol
With no more ressurections, Sylvanas may get desperate
jade basalt
So the few she has left could equal to 1 rez, or maybe 2.
But probably 1, don't think storytelling-wise they'd want to kill her two more times.
terse patrol
It is canon
inner copper
That was a wasted val’kyr
jade basalt
Godfrey ? It's canon. That's when the 3 val'kyr sacrificed themselves to bring her back.
inner copper
Oh yeah Godfrey
terse patrol
She might start listening to the daggers whispers when she dies again.
inner copper
Damm I’ve made over 50 worgens up to lvl 20 in my WoW lifetime and I frigging forgot
dense plover
Undead are immune to whispers from the void/old gods
At least that’s what allerias voices implied
terse patrol
They can still hear them.
inner copper
I was thinking about the top hat you get from the mission after which Godfrey suicides
dense plover
Yeah but why listen when you know they crazy
Not to mention we don’t know what’s in the dagger now
terse patrol
Sylvanas being desperate hears what she wants from the dagger.
She thinks she outsmarts it but she just plays in Nzoths plan.
jade basalt
I don't think anything related to Alleria implied undead are immune to Void whispers.
tropic trail
I agree that its totaly stupid that Delaryn and Sira changed the views so fast without any mind controll or anything. but it is how it is. there is no mind controll. maybe we will get in 8.2 or 8.3 some missing informations and it would make more sense
but I think its just, your whole view of things changes after you become undead
jade basalt
In fact the whole "undead are immune to Old Gods" is pretty much an age-old myth. This is really never stated anywhere.
There's a bunch of undead foremen mining Saronite in a cave in Northrend, constantly whispering "Yogg-Saron..", and somehow people jumped from that to "undead are immune". Wut.
Which is also ironic because this in fact literally shows they're not quite immune as they are getting influenced by Yogg just by merely mining saronite, like everyone else..
Hell we've seen many undead in the Twilight's Hammer as well. Or Void-raised undead.
tropic trail
I thought it was mentioned in the chornicles? or was it the arthas book?
jade basalt
Nope.
Hell there's even theories that the Lich King himself could've been (slightly) influenced by Yogg, so.
unborn glacier
XD
tropic trail
interesting. so blizzard could just play out the "she was all the time controlled/corrupted by an old god" card again
jade basalt
I guess so. But I doubt it, if she is to be corrupted, she'll get corrupted later.
Plus it'd be weird because the Void was wary of Sylvanas for serving death, so clearly she wasn't/isn't Void-corrupte (yet !).
tropic trail
I hope so. And I hope she will never get corrupted
would be just so stupid to go threw it all again
dense plover
I doubt they will pull a “she’s been mind controlled the whole time”
That’s worse than blizzard writing
night swift
That’d be dumb
dense plover
That’s JJ Abrams writing
languid yoke
@inner copper as a worgen you never get to know godfrey killed sylvanas, it's stupid
jade basalt
Did you misspell JK Rowling
languid yoke
most of cata worgen lore is in horde quests
dense plover
No
JJ Abrams can’t fucking write
He ruins everything
Star Wars, Star Trek
He is the Michael Bay of Sci Fi movies
languid yoke
~azerite has caused old god mind control over everyone~
dense plover
JK Rowling can write, she just needs to stop retconning stuff for no reason
The Harry Potter books were good mostly
Just like ST TNG was good
uncut vault
I think it’s more likely she’ll just have a hidden goal that gets revealed. Why she didn’t reveal it to the champion, who knows, but it’ll probably be a more up front form of what Illidan got
A plan that was actually good, with less than ideal methods, and people who don’t know it standing against her
Just instead of retconning it in five xpacs later, it’ll be in the same xpac and be a (somewhat) coherent story
foggy abyss
Yeah 8.2 would be heavier
dense plover
You’ll know when it’s major because the servers will go down
rough pollen
Huh
PTR is updating for me
ionic terrace
Read above 😛
rough pollen
Oof
That was the wrong server hehe
Meant to send it to my friend but uh
meager zodiac
all the 8.2 hinting is making me hittttcccch
meager zodiac
mostly the sudden kotaku interview, but its also a vibe , a feeling
uncut vault
Muffinus (which I do take with a grain of salt) also tweeted about how interesting it is to see the sudden amount of rise of azshara articles
dense plover
On Friday
When everyone thought the build would drop
What kotaku interview?
Link?
uncut vault
I think yana means the polygon article
dense plover
What article tho
uncut vault
meager zodiac
i hope so as well, but i feel it in meh bones
pulsar iris
i blame Mak if no new build this week
zealous basalt
Why me
dense plover
Which servers are up?
uncut vault
same two, just anasterian and benedictus
strange falcon
Heres my conspiracy theory,since everyone Is banking so much on 8.2 to be the miraculous comeback,Blizz doesnt want Anyone to see It,until its not a buggy mess(which Is usually acceptable for a ptr)
uncut vault
I don’t think that’s a worry for the patch as a whole
Azerite revamp? 100%, they aren’t releasing that until much later builds
lone marten
you never know
tropic trail
I have a feeling they will wait with the 8.2 ptr for the release of the new raid or even 1 week after it
uncut vault
They’ve never done that in the past
It might happen to come out then, but it isn’t because of the raid
meager zodiac
Another day, another wait 😦
ionic terrace
dense plover
Wut?
ionic terrace
Tired of waiting lol
dense plover
Might not happen today or this week
Got about 2hrs before you should give up for the day
tidal stone
Now’s a really good time to focus on downtime activities like obtaining heritage armor sets, pet battling, getting this season’s pvp mount, etc. while we’re waiting
sour burrow
I personally think times like this are important and should happen a bit more often than they do. Locking people into the AP grind isn't good for the long term health of the game.
shell arch
You know now is the ap grind time right?
When most ppl are done with progression and prepare for next tier
sour burrow
Yeah, there's still a few more levels it'll be boosted, we cap at 50, and it really doesn't matter too much. It's an illusion for min maxers, heh. But I still feel bad for people who play alts a lot.
shell arch
Illusion for min maxers eh xd
upper lantern
so no PTR tonight eh 😦
terse patrol
nope
flint meteor
shell arch
I got a feeling we shouldnt expect 8.2 content on ptr before Crucible of Storms drops on live in 2 weeks
Just a feeling
upper lantern
Yeah. Not usual Blizzard practice but it could happen
uncut vault
Like I said earlier, theyve never waited until the patches raid to come out before ptr
shell arch
Would be kinda logical to put one patch on test realm after previous is shipped
uncut vault
8.1.5 PTR came out two weeks before Battle of Dazaralor
shell arch
Also last q&a they said next q&a will have some news so that would also make sense to happen before dropping it on ptr
terse patrol
They don't mention spoilers and other things on Q&As.
The PTR would come out before the next Q&A, because they don't want to make broad statements on mechanics for 8.2 if the PTR testing shows said mechanics are shit.
@shell arch @uncut vault
shell arch
Sure they dont mention any news on q&a, it was just an accident that they showed all about BoD raid there 😒
uncut vault
That wasn’t a QnA, that was a patch announcement
lucid steeple
im hopeing for another elemental mount like the one that drops from mythic jaina im hopeing they make more like it but others ways to get it maybe an achive or quest
dense plover
Play a shaman
There will not be one like mythic Jaina
It’s a mythic Mount
They’re special
tropic trail
There's an infernal mount from Gul'dan, but that's a demon
dense plover
That one is the exception to the mythic rule tho
tropic trail
The green one is not mythic only red
uncut vault
gimme this week ion, do it
dense plover
Pl0x
umbral lake
I think it may hit next week
dense plover
Best thing here
Going forward, we're going to keep making new Azerite traits that are unique to Azshara's raid or to Mechagon that complement the existing pool of traits, but armor will just have those traits fully unlocked and players can choose what they want most for their playstyle. Instead, there will be a progression path within the Heart of Azeroth itself, so as you level up your Heart you'll be able to earn access to and choose among a variety of new active and passive powers. And when I say active that includes being able to select an active ability that's a key-bind kind of like your Artifact active that really will meaningfully change your combat rotation immediately. That was something that was missed from what Artifacts offered in Legion that we wanted to reintroduce.
They are adding more armor traits too
So it’s not just getting pushed to the backend
I hope they go through with the solo exploration island mode
uncut vault
definitely gonna be asking at the next QnA how they plan on improving the xpac shift regarding the new abilities
hopefully better than the artifact abilities
especially considering we're getting these for an even shorter amount of time
hasty elbow
I hope they deployed 8.2 to ptr this week but at this point my bet is on next week.
dense plover
They said very soon like twice or three times in that article
uncut vault
it could be either, I'd wager this interview happened last week
simply because of transcription and good release times
so very soon doesnt seem like two weeks off
so I lean towards this friday
dense plover
Not to mention, I think they did want to put it out Friday, hence the weird muffins tweet
But I think something broke
So they are fixing that
uncut vault
that, or they wanted to make sure their 'info dump' came out alongside the PTR
which Im curious what that will be
hasty elbow
i remember they said something like "8.2 will hit ptr "shortly" after 8.1.5" at Blizzcon.
but 8.1.5 is 3 weeks old on Live now 😦
dense plover
Shortly in blizzcon terms is not the same as a 1 week old interview
uncut vault
three weeks is about average for ptr releases over the last xpac
pulsar iris
i still wonder if they can't make use of island expeditions AI to make a "solo dungeon" or "solo raid" mode, where you get even lower rewards than from LFR, but still a good way to play the game on your own pace
dense plover
They specifically said they were looking into adding solo island stuff
Where it was focused on exploration and not on pvp kill mobs super fast
pulsar iris
i feel stupid asking for solo stuff on a mmo
but that's how i like playing so shrugs
dense plover
They said they will be playing around with different things in islands in 8.2
pulsar iris
also when was that interview released?
pulsar iris
this one being discussed is not new then?
dense plover
No, this new interview doesn’t mention islands
pulsar iris
no no i'm not talking about just islands. i'm asking about the new interview itself
was it released today?
dense plover
Yes
pulsar iris
oh man
dense plover
That’s why the ‘very soon’ thing is big
Especially since Porter is probably right, the interview probably occurred last week
pulsar iris
i hope very soonisher isn't next week or after
dense plover
Statistically, this week is looking good
uncut vault
next week is probably at latest
since they said we will have weeks of testing in april, and they probably dont want to release it the same week as the raid
pulsar iris
i'm hoping it comes today
tulip sun
SOOONNNN
pulsar iris
otherwise we blame Mak
tulip sun
We can't keep changing our blame or we just seem invalid
terse patrol
I was surprised when they said there would be new warfronts in the future. @uncut vault
pulsar iris
that barrens warfront would be cool
still want a new world revamp but i'm asking too much
uncut vault
Me too, given what they said before
but Im happy for it simply because I dont hate the mechanics like many, and enjoyed the huge overhaul that arathi got, as well as the story buildup that darkshore got
pulsar iris
i like warfronts
they don't require me paying attention to the game as much as dungeon or raids do
pulsar iris
tauren story would fit heritage armor
uncut vault
Since the warfront will be in 8.3, I'd say the stakes of it will likely be more important than the barrens which, while close to orgrimmar, isnt an immediate threat if the alliance has a foothold there, seeing as without theramore, its cut off from any major alliance holdings
main reason why I think out of the ones we know, azshara or silvermoon are the most likely
but there could be a curveball
similar to darkshore
tropic trail
I want my Black Arrow ability back for my Hunter, that summons undead skeletons... So I can have that Dark Ranger feelings like I had back in Legion
I hope they adding that ability back in 8.2
uncut vault
I mean, Id rather they let us look like a dark ranger finally 😛
pulsar iris
i'm curious about how the faction war will keep going forward even after queen azshara rises
tropic trail
or just give Dark Ranger as a new undead class
tulip sun
I guarantee you we will fight each other as we walk up into her palace
ORRRE UNDEAD ELF PLAYABLE AR
uncut vault
same way as wrath, cata, and BfA
huge threats dont wipe away the hatreds
hell, in, ICC, we had a faction conflict fight
pulsar iris
i understand it. but the war was never this fierce. hatreds were never that strong i think
i might be wrong
uncut vault
that just means its more likely to continue with azshara being present
pulsar iris
yes, but the change of focus is a important thing
uncut vault
especially considering the intro to nazjatar is likely going to be the two fleets fighting, if the foreshadowing is referring to that
tulip sun
Then we all fall into a hole in the ocean xD
uncut vault
I dont think WoW has ever had a conflict where the faction animosity has fully gone away
Legion got close, but suramar still had some
pulsar iris
i just want to see what will happen there
tulip sun
And then there is stormheim
pulsar iris
truce? keep fighting all the way until we reach her?
tulip sun
Nope
We will see Yahlyssra throwing arcane spheres at Tyrande and tyrande firing arrows at Thalyssra as they charge Azahara
They ain't gonna play nice
Itll be a 3 way war
pulsar iris
that's what i mean with "keep fighting all the way until we reach her"
tulip sun
Even when they reach her xD
uncut vault
on the topic of dark rangers, Ive touched on it before here, but its likely that if they are playable in any form, they'll be an undead elf allied race to be counterpart to light undead
uncut vault
their stories match up, and both got hints in the unreleased Velonara questline in 8.1.5
tulip sun
I dont even care if their Night elf or thalassian. I will settle for either
uncut vault
counterpart as in released together
tropic trail
the alliance can have undead lightforged If I get my undead Elfs
tulip sun
I want undead elves so bad
pulsar iris
we need more elves
tropic trail
yes
uncut vault
they'd probably go thalassian, because people would not be pleased if we finally got undead elves, and they're the ones made up in BfA, from an alliance race
tropic trail
you cant have enough elves
uncut vault
Im biased, as seen by my icon, and would definitely have thalassian as a requirement
pulsar iris
end faction restrictions and give blue eyes to blood elves already damn it
uncut vault
that wont happen
uncut vault
they should not regress to an old state for the sake of a very minor customization option
pulsar iris
yes yes but
tulip sun
Isn't the sun well both arcane and light? Could be because the arcane bit alongside using arcane
pulsar iris
no let's not discuss this
tropic trail
dude I would love it so hard if they would give blood elves blue eyes as a custm option, just to see that hard rage from the alliance fanbase 😄
uncut vault
you cant separate out the arcane in the sunwell
continuing to draw on it gives golden eyes, because it is primarily a holy well now
uncut vault
also, wanting them for the sake of being petty is a dumb reason
dense plover
I would rather they just never do it
And ignore high elves
And focus on more important, not elves
pulsar iris
i think that removing faction barriers and being able to make an "blue eyed blood elf" would be a ok choice to roleplay high elves
tropic trail
yea I prefer to ignore them too
pulsar iris
but that won't happen so i'm settled
dense plover
I know you’re joking but some people won’t stop
We have 4 elves now
That’s plenty
uncut vault
we have four humans, but its likely blizz will add another with light undead
tulip sun
Undead elves technically would be an undead variant
uncut vault
that number doesnt really matter
pulsar iris
greyish with purple tattoos on the eyes
i mean around the eyes
or was it cult of damned?
languid yoke
urgh not elves again
pulsar iris
i want death knights available for undead elves
tropic trail
I would love to have undead elves that look like San'Layn with that creepy look. and the creepy wings
anorexic and thirsty for blood
pulsar iris
san'layn was hinted so damn hard to be discarted
tropic trail
san'layn would be the perfect counterpart for the worgens. you know, the classic werewolf vs vampire thing
but then they just killed off the san'layns that were in the alliance warcampaign
so im not sure anymore if we will get them ever
tropic trail
Wanna be a vamp, play blood DK
pulsar iris
but they asked me when i said i would like to play fat humans so i'm happy once more
uncut vault
Not all of them were killed
tropic trail
actually I just wanna be an undead elve
uncut vault
on the horde side, if you go over to the other ship, some are still alive
tropic trail
I know that not all are dead
Play forsaken and RP that your ears were'nt sewed on
no
i want them ingame
pulsar iris
number of alive members of said race were not a issue to void elves
but undead stuff is tough to talk about
i believe it was a mistake making the forsaken playable
pulsar iris
i mean they are cool
tropic trail
it would be only a mistake if they want to redeem the forsaken
pulsar iris
but how you make dark rangers?
tropic trail
which likely looks like what blizz want to do
tropic trail
Forsaken are the fallen people of Lordaeron, most of them are, making them not playable would irritate the Warcraft 3 fans of the Kingdom
there should be more dead high elves then void elves
uncut vault
keep in mind, undead elf doesnt need to mean dark ranger all of the time
pulsar iris
i cant argue dude lol
uncut vault
Lorash is a good example of this
pulsar iris
but is it a good idea to make a single race for each undead race the playerbase wants?
uncut vault
I mean, nobody is asking for that
pulsar iris
say humans from lordaeron, now high/blood elves, maybe in the future goblins you know
uncut vault
undead elves is just an iconic thing
tropic trail
Wait...he died?
uncut vault
unlike all other races, those two would have made up the bulk of the scourge
tropic trail
high elves were forsaken before the forsaken were forsaken
- sylvanas is the first forsaken and her banshees
uncut vault
Yes, malfurion kills him in the novellas
and he is brought back, and appears in darkshore
tropic trail
so undead elves are even more og forsaken then the actually forsaken 😄
I don't like undead Kaldorei
pulsar iris
i always thought it was weird that sylvanas was the leader of the undead humans idk
uncut vault
theres a difference between wanting a bunch of different races, and wanting to play like the actual leader of the forsaken
who we know isnt the only one of her kind
tropic trail
I wasnt talking about Kaldorei
pulsar iris
i would like if you could chose a race to be undead, but it would be weird
tropic trail
Worgen not supposed to be undead
pulsar iris
but porter we also know now that there are undead nelves and all
tropic trail
Well Sylvanas created them or gived the forsaken an identity
Dwarfs can, I think, no proof
so it would be weird if someone else woudl lead them
All base races bar pandaren can be DKs so anyone can be undead
pulsar iris
yes helden but i believe being a undead elf should be a customization option and not an entire race
i dont know if it would work
tropic trail
oh I would even take it as a customization option
uncut vault
if antlers or yellow eyes work, being undead works
tropic trail
but the thing is, that those undead elves wouldnt be able to understand thallassion
which would be a weird thing
Antlers should be a customisaton
RP wise
pulsar iris
it would work as a option to the forsaken and not to elves
limber mural
@tropic trail lorewise pandaren can be DKs even
pulsar iris
you would have a selector just like orcs have for their stance
limber mural
when they make Lich king 2 which they'll inevitably do, that'll probs happen
pulsar iris
but it would be weird
tropic trail
I think it was a mistake to have Worgen and Kaldorei DK
limber mural
worgen def
pulsar iris
need a elf worgen customization option too
tropic trail
I used to think all Kaldorei turn into wisps on death, guess I was wrong
Kaldorei DK makes sense since the scourge attacked them in WC3
balmy ingot
i have stupid qeustion. 8.2 is endgame what it means with endgame?
inner copper
idk
dense plover
What do you mean?
End game is max level when you aren’t leveling and doing level up stuff
balmy ingot
8.2 will take the best features of past endgame content, but is also trying a lot of new things.
uncut vault
Everything you do once you hit max level is what endgame means
uncut vault
In this instance, itcmainly means outdoor areas
dense plover
Like world quests, timeless isle, zone bosses, and new stuff
dense plover
XD
Or more so she does something unexpected
Maybe she releases Nzoth by sacrificing herself?
Badass and unexpected
balmy ingot
so they will make new expansion later.. i think 8.2 is longer to use..
maybe 1 year?
lone marten
@balmy ingot They always make expansions with 2 yr gaps
tulip sun
I could see it going to 8.4
balmy ingot
i see
uncut vault
I could see 8.4 with a mini raid at most
But I doubt we’ll get an extra tier of content
tulip sun
I imagined mostly story
tropic trail
Im curious how the Sylvanas raid could be if they really going to make every Warbringer as a Raid boss...
better it will be like dazar alor, that only the alliance will fight her
night swift
There won’t be a sylvanas raid
Blizz has already stated they won’t just kill her off in a raid garrosh style
dense plover
^^^
dense plover
They said she wouldn’t be a raid boss like garrosh
tropic trail
doesnt mean that there wont be a raid
terse patrol
I think Azshara might turn on N’zoth.
tropic trail
"Does that mean you will not fight her?" he added. "Not necessarily true either. The reality is you can fight her every day of the week in Grommash Hold, in a raid, right now. But I do think there's a lot more to Sylvanas' story that hasn't been told yet."
terse patrol
She’d never sacrifice herself for anyone
tropic trail
thats the original quote from the same interview where he said they wont kill her as a raid boss
dense plover
That’s pretty much saying she won’t be a raid boss
Like verbatim
“But you can fight her everyday”
terse patrol
Was Jaina killed?
terse patrol
Then dont worry
tropic trail
Well I hope u guys are right, I dont want to fight my Queen!
dense plover
It’s very unlikely
terse patrol
You probably will fight her. She just won’t die.
dense plover
"Does that mean you will not fight her?" he added. "Not necessarily true either. The reality is you can fight her every day of the week in Grommash Hold, in a raid, right now. But I do think there's a lot more to Sylvanas' story that hasn't been told yet."
Dude
Read
Not kill her
Fight her
They are saying it’s probably not
Everyone thinks since we fought Jaina and azshara we gotta fight sylvanas
That’s wonky logic
dense plover
muffinus is posting some weird tweets
languid yoke
nothing is faster than a dog chasing that pink-glaced donut
ionic terrace
for what it's worth, the two ptr servers are still up
dense plover
yes
ionic terrace
no sign of a shutdown
dense plover
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ionic terrace
tulip sun
@dense plover What is he tweeting
storm marsh
What is this teasing
Ptr might actually come tomorrow
There used to be new beta builds on thursday
upper lantern
yep
tidal stone
my guess is they'll do an ion info dump on a thursday or tuesday and the 8.2 ptr will go up on that following friday
foggy abyss
I think you guys are too hasty
8.1.5 added minor content
I expect the PTR to hit us next week or in two weeks
uncut vault
8.1 PTR was on a thursday, 7.3 PTR was on a thursday
mystic vault
0
dense plover
@foggy abyss we arent being hasty, this is statistics
foggy abyss
Guess we'll have to wait and se, you've been around surely longer than i was
dense plover
so usually first ptr patch is around 3 weeks after last real patch
royal orchid
If we talk about statistics based on legion patch cycle, the ptr should most likely hit between 15 and 27 days after the last patch hits live. I did a simple prediction based on the average:
note: those dates are in DD.MM.YYYY
but those are just statistics without including quite a few factors
I mean, I can't include muffins tweets in these statistics 😄
And I'm not sure if we could just assume that the bfa PTR cycle will be comparable with legion, we just don't have enough results yet
hasty elbow
well if nothing show up today it must be next week, if still nothing next week i guess something wrong happened. 🤔
hasty elbow
There’s a build on Friday too?
I though they deployed a new build on Tuesday or Thursday only. 😮
languid yoke
since Ion mentioned info dump I'm kinda thinking it's gonna be next week, since if they would announce an info dump today for tomorrow, that's still a very short amount of time between announcement-action for blizz
upper lantern
Yeah. I think it makes sense to expect an info dump on tuesday or something, and the patch on the following day
royal orchid
Well, if we assume that the info dump ion was talking about is equal to the one we got for 8.1, we can't get it today or tomorrow.
The info dump for 8.1 came on september 18, that stream was announced on september 15, and the ptr came on september 21. By that, it's very unlikely that they gonna stream this week, without announcing it a few days in prior. But we don't know if they gonna handle it the same way as 8.1
hasty elbow
Or info dump could mean the 8.2 ptr client itself. 🤔
dense plover
^^^
This is what they did with7.2 and 7.3
They released the patch
And then released a bunch of info at the same time
hasty elbow
Also I don’t remember there’s something like “Live stream for dump info about the new ptr build then deployed the build”.They just announced something like “Hey there’s new build which include xxxx, pls expect downtime thx”. Etc.
Except for 8.1 which they announced via live stream
which at that time we don’t have any 8.1 info
But this time they already announced some of 8.2 info at Blizzcon.
royal orchid
Yes, that's what I was talking about. If they handle 8.2 the same way. I hope they don't. I don't see the reason behind that either. But we just don't know.
hasty elbow
Well, in my opinion they did 8.1 live stream because we don't have any info about it at that time so they announced it and also dump info but things are different for 8.2. They already announced it at Blizzcon and we also have some info so I doubted they will handle it the same way as 8.1
tulip sun
Why do we need an info dump
royal orchid
I'm not sure if that's the reason for the 8.1 livestream, because we already had other patches that went on PTR without precise information of the content.
I think the livestream was more a marketing decision for a better communication purpose.
8.2 does have a lot of new things like the new azerithe system, they need to make sure that we don't get a wrong "first" impression on that. If that system is way further in development on their builds than on the first ptr build, they need to communicate that. Wasn't the 7.3 netherlight crucible something like that? If I remember that correctly, it went through a lot of changes and the first thing that we saw wasn't really a good impression of what blizzard intended.
I mean, I really hope they don't do a livestream first, because I think they need to give us something, but I wouldn't be suprised if they do so.
languid yoke
we don't need one, but Ion said there will be one
hasty elbow
if they gonna do a live stream very soon i think we gonna see some announcement before this week end.
royal orchid
yes, if they do, I think today would be my guess
hasty elbow
it's either this week or next week
and the week after next is CoS launch week which seems unlikely for testing things.
they will be busy during raid launch week i guess?
royal orchid
One other thing that speaks for a livestream before ptr is the wording from Ion in the last PCGamer Interview: "Not too long after this, we're going to have a large info dump for the community and the [public test realm] for Rise of Azshara will start [...]"
He distinguishes between the "large info dump" and PTR.
uncut vault
not really, he says the info dump and the ptr will start
not the info dump, then the PTR
royal orchid
Well, I guess that's then a limit of my English knowledge 😄
hasty elbow
I wonder how long is his "Not too long". 😂
dense plover
Info dump will probably be text too
hasty elbow
if he said "very soon" i will be happier lul
unborn glacier
@hasty elbow likely next week or the week after
hasty elbow
well.....i hope it's this week but my bet is next week onward. 😂
hasty elbow
^
uncut vault
I’d say it’s unlikely to be the week after next, honestly
Crucible releasing + the wording of this interview
Doesn’t indicate that it’s something released two and a half to three weeks from then
dense plover
^
hasty elbow
^
dense plover
Especially since the interview was probably last week
And published this week
They might’ve even been told a release date of ptr off the record so they could garner the most article attention
Or at least like - late next week
hasty elbow
oh i forgot about that the date of the interview is nowhere to be found right?
only published date.
dense plover
It was probably before
Takes time to write
And generally you send back to the interviewee to make sure that you didn’t misinterpret anything
It’s not a Blizzcon interview, so it generally has more time put in to it
sour burrow
Is there any official German->English translation of the article? I'm kind of curious of the syntax or whatever of the question involving new races. We've been told before that Allied Races are NOT just variants, just that they happen to have been so far, but this response indicates that maybe they've doubled back on that view.
languid yoke
the variants part is something readers read into the question/response
the translation on wowhead is what is said in the german article, don't see it being misstranslated
tropic trail
wait
I translated it jesterday on a different discord about races
buffed: "What will be the next allied races and when we will get a complete new race?"
Ion: "Not every patch will have an allied race. **In the Azsharas rise update as an example, there wont be a new allied race. **
If it makes sense for the Story, then we will ofc create a new allied race or a complete new race, so the player can learn more accurate about the race and learn the Story/Background of the new race. Complete new Races like Goblins, Worgens, or Draenei are more a "new expansion" thing . "
languid yoke
no offense, wowhead's translation is better
uncut vault
I feel like "completely new races" doesnt just mean the concept of the race itself
tropic trail
my english isnt perfect, so I just did a quick translation
uncut vault
but instead the inclusion of a starting zone
tropic trail
because yesterday they didnt translated it
languid yoke
personally I understand "brand-new race" as a race that doesn't build on another previously released race, and get added without a lot of story buildup outside of their own starting zone, whereas allied races are ones that you have to earn their trust for, that make sense to start on level 20, and more than likely are based on already existing player models
like all the core races added so far basically had no choice than to ally with their faction
...except pandaren
but we don't talk about their inclusion into either faction
tropic trail
new race = goblin, worgen , pandaran lvl
terse patrol
I think they’re doing allied races on the .5 patches now. @uncut vault
sour burrow
We're talking about it now in the VHC. It could be that things like, say, Ogres and Drakonids are more in the latter category, and things like Vulpera or Sethrak/Arrakoa or even Hozen/Jinyu are more in the former category of already existing at this point where we learn about them as we play.
inner copper
there's a guy who didn't want to be either horde or alliance. He leveled his pandaren to max lvl while never leaving the Wandering Isle
inner copper
Anduin's got a sixth sense
meager zodiac
i kinda do, but mine is prone to flaws, but i feel it
languid yoke
nEw MuFfInUs TwEeT
dense plover
I SAW!!!!!!!
languid yoke
I think he won't fall for my cleverly veiled trick question!
ionic terrace
languid yoke
did he just leak how they look like or is that seahorse from a blizzcon slide
dense plover
From the slide
languid yoke
boo
ionic terrace
Horse3 lmao
meager zodiac
uhhh stop teasing, why u so active muffinos
uncut vault
Ive got the next three days free, Im so hoping for a release tomorrow
terse patrol
muffinus why you tease
tulip sun
MUFFINUSSSS
dense plover
its only 12:30 there
meager zodiac
✊
dense plover
calm down
languid yoke
if it only were that simple
uncut vault
Might be reading into it too much, but Patty Mattson is doing work with another voice actress, Chrissy Baker, in the LA area
Could be a new character we meet
tulip sun
Hmm
dense plover
only 1pm
sour burrow
There's enough massive stuff in the PTR that they're going to have to address it in a "Direct" before it actually goes live or else deal with a massive shitstorm of chaos. Everyone has super high expectations. :< So unfortunately, we've gotta wait for that dissection video before we get the ptr. Likely will hit after whenever that drops.
Like, the big system changes etc, he'll want to ramble on about that for 20-30 minutes before we get our hands on it, lest we draw incomplete and wild conclusions and cause even more headaches down the line.
unborn glacier
The reasonable assumption would be in the next two weeks
My theory is the PTR will be updated after the new raid goes live
hasty elbow
More like next week or the week after the new raid, I don’t think they will release something during raid launch week. :/
uncut vault
Dunno why you think they’d detract from the mythic race
Nor release it that late, seeing as we know we’re getting multiple weeks of testing in April
sour burrow
Yeah, they've had ptr drop before raid before.
uncut vault
8.1.5 dropped before the raid released, they have no reason to release it after
More reason not to
steel venture
its probably within the next few days, otherwise muffinus wouldn't drop so many hints.
sour burrow
lol yeah... Unfortunately they've been burned too much these days to have close contact with fans. I miss the indie days.
storm marsh
So yall think ptr build is still dropping today? 😛
plain fern
@storm marsh I'm thinking next week but I'd love to be surprised.
sour burrow
I could use the excitement. Tomorrow would be perfect.
dense plover
i just want this so bad
sour burrow
I've finished all my tasks. Hard drive files are sorted, house is clean, even wrote a story for the Vulpera group.
uncut vault
You expecting any vulpera to show up in 8.2, Tobias?
sour burrow
If you mean as part of the story in some way, I do expect them to participate in the Horde side of the war campaign to at least the extent they have been.
They've been present in every major event so far, from funeral to coronation to incursion. Not massively, but still present.
If you mean as a clear Allied Race or somesuch, it's still way too early for that. :P 8.2/.5 will be for Goblin/Worgen model updates. What comes after that is still too early to say. Though they say they are listening to community feedback, and they've still yet to give a definitive 'not happening' to vulpera OR sethrak, amusingly enough. RIP Blood Trolls / High Elves.
dense plover
there was a 0% chance for either of those since nightborne/void elves/zandalari
sour burrow
Oh, I agree they were unlikely choices to begin with, but Blizzard made a point of speaking up when it came to them. But for the most part, they've been content to let the community hype itself up, for better or worse, lol.
dense plover
now if only they would do the same for 8.2
sour burrow
Aye, I don't remember this much palpitation for, say, 7.3 content.
Though I admit I didn't become overly involved in this back-end hype until BfA beta, so...
dense plover
there wasnt for 7.3 because they dropped it almost immediately after announcing it
vs 8.2 where we have been waiting since fucking blizzcon
sour burrow
Well, they have a lot to 'fix', so... I can't really blame them. I wonder if it'll impact the expansion release schedule. I personally hope it does. I don't want to see the next big thing rushed as bad as BfA felt.
tropic trail
uff... I want 8.2 ptr really bad but I know already Im gonna be pissed after the leaks
I fear they gonna fuck up Velonara somehow and making her anti sylvanas, pushing sylvanas even more in to the villain role , so more horde leaders will go against her and stuff
just to build up that 8.3 "twist"
uncut vault
with that, definitely
tulip sun
OG MY
dense plover
OH SHIT
sour burrow
Vendor encrypted thing.
still thicket
what's the usual turnaround between the patch being at the vendor and the patch being live to the ptr realms?
still thicket
but you're thinking by the end of tomorrow?
uncut vault
that would be my bet, yes
last two xpacs have typically had the first build of a patch's PTR come out on a thursday or friday
sour burrow
Potentially but I still expect a video about it before we experience it.
dense plover
can be same day too
sour burrow
Oh for sure.
uncut vault
I dont think it particularly has to be a video
but we know there's some kind of info dump
latent blade
y am i alive
dense plover
are the ptr servers themselves still up?
uncut vault
yes, same two
dense plover
damn
then yeah
tomorrow is a safe bet
we get to play this weekend tho
probably
sour burrow
I can agree with that sentiment. As one of the designated info dismantlers over at the VHC, I forsee having to do some form of damage control on launch, because people will have a hard time interpreting the data they're seeing and what potential it could have. :< I just kinda want to delve into it / get it over with XD
tulip sun
What? People in the vulpera discord having a hard time with lore? Impossibbbllle
sour burrow
Psssh, no, I'm talking about having a hard time with understanding tech stuff and the various implications of game design choices. XD
They're too positive for their own good sometimes, but yet also quite quick don the doomsayer's robes.
balmy ingot
wow soon 8.2 PTR
if it come then i wil lleveling my char
until 120
about pathfinders path 2!
royal orchid
Yeah, I don't like being so pesimistic all the time, but at 8.1.5 we had the encrypted build a few weeks in prior. It could mean, that we get PTR tomorrow, but it's definitely not a safe bet.
strange falcon
well,ion in the last interview a few days ago said he didnt want to spoil much since the ptr was so close
so idk
you tell me
royal orchid
"so close" could mean anything at blizzard 😄
I mean, I want it know, but at the same time, it's blizzard.
There is a reason behind that soon™ 😄
weak bridge
8.1.5 was encrypted for a few weeks because it was pretty close to the holidays from what i remember
round jetty
weak bridge
i'm hoping for today but probably next week is when we get it
hasty elbow
8.1.5 was encrypted for weeks because of xmas and new year holiday but I will be pessimistic here. The ptr will be next week and will be drop on Thursday at worst.
The more we expected, the more we disappointed.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tulip sun
I believvvveeeee in blizz
dense plover
I really disagree
Why would muffinus tweet about the the stallion if it was dropping next week?
weak bridge
so i go around twitter
and i see with the corner of my eyes
Blizzard PTR news
i was like WTF
fucking diablo ptr 😄 😄 😄
upper lantern
someone in blizzard is rofling at us right now probably
hasty elbow
I'm just try to not expected anything much = not disappointed much lul
upper lantern
I'm expecting good scenery, at least a few decent sea or elf-themed transmogs, pets and mounts. And nice music, of course.
As far as the narrative and gameplay go, though...
hasty elbow
i'm expecting that too
amber narwhal
tropic trail
Hazzikostas: “There will not be a trial where she is in chains. #Sylvanas is not a character who would find herself in that situation ... ever.”
languid yoke
oh yeah sylvanas would definitely be a char who would be killed instead of getting a trial
if we ever had to go that far
tropic trail
they said she wont die as a raid boss and now they said she wont end up in chains
really curious what they planned for her
hasty elbow
i think they already dropped the hint with Sylvanas holding the spriest dagger.
tulip sun
I doubt she will die anytime soon
languid yoke
I have sylvanas set in my head as either 8th or 9th xpac main villain
or secondary if she plays along with old gods as main villain
dense plover
Unlikely
tropic trail
^
dense plover
That’s just garrosh 2
tropic trail
^
strange falcon
Inb4 lichqueen 3.0
tropic trail
if she would become the Lich Queen AND allied with Horde
well I would go for it
she would fix the problem with the forsaken rotting
atleast
meager zodiac
Camon ptr, you can do it
dense plover
Way too early
It’s not even noon
Wait until around 2PST
That’s the best time to expect something
That’s 3.5 hours
strange falcon
Are they going to push a ptr this important on a Friday tho
dense plover
They’ve done this before
umbral lake
it's happened several times that they put out the first build on a friday so not too uncommon
dense plover
^^^
uncut vault
My hope is that they push it today, but push it at around noon, so that if there are game breaking server bugs, they can try to fix them before the weekend
pulsar iris
make forsaken its own faction with the option to make undead for every single race Kappa
sylvanas leaves the horde and this third faction is available with ogres joining the vacuum
tulip sun
So @uncut vault @dense plover , do you actually think it is today?
tulip sun
Ughhhhh
uncut vault
but the vendor build was a good sign
sour burrow
I want to be optimistic, but I'm actually not expecting it until later next week.
hasty elbow
anddd Muffinus began to tweet.
meager zodiac
that scoundrel
tulip sun
V.v
inner copper
who's Muffinus?
tulip sun
hasty elbow
Senior Game Designer for WoW who like to tease new things 😂
ionic terrace
Muffinus shakes fist
As someone who is heavily involved in secret finding, I have a love/hate relationship with him, heh
inner copper
oh nice
i hope we get something similar to my mount concept art
peacock mount, using the Hawkstrider animations
languid yoke
He's mean
manic horizon
hasty elbow
there's still nothing like "shutdown" popped on ptr tho.
meager zodiac
stil a lot of time
tulip sun
Plssss
meager zodiac
people are saying there will be a big info dump, but i havent seen anything leading to it
zealous basalt
I blame peach again
tulip sun
We still got a while
tropic trail
wait like 4 more hours or so..
tropic trail
mrpeach says like for hours now its too early and wait for another 3-4 hours xD
dense plover
Yeah 3-4 hours 2 hours ago puts us at 2pm or so
2-3pm is a safe bet for something happening
sour burrow
He's talking about the seahorse mount. Probably making some sort of meta joke in the description because HORSE.
dense plover
Yes
But there’s a good chance build today
Muffin is active
And it’s still pretty early
strange falcon
On another note...so the devs arent completely clueless huh
The problem with Battle for Azeroth’s endgame is that a culling of abilities, the loss of Legion’s legendaries, and a lack of endgame talents means that hitting the max level doesn’t necessarily make your character more fun to play. Your character is a vehicle to explore new content, and it doesn’t matter how stunning the vista is if the core gameplay loop you’ll execute a few thousand times just isn’t fun.
sour burrow
Which is why I feel like we won't be able to access this PTR until they've done their 'this is our goal' video breakdown...
They're backed into a bit of a corner and letting us run around on our own in this climate is... not their ideal. At least, that's how I'd be feeling atm.
strange falcon
I also feel like they're trying to get It as far along as possible because First impressions(all youtubers Will Make a vid on It)must be realgood
If they want to have a "successful" patch
sour burrow
Why is everyone randomly capitalizing Will all of the sudden? >_>
strange falcon
autocorrect
sour burrow
Yeah, I'm laughing because you're not the only one suffering from that. Random auto-correct patch mess something up for the whole world? XD
ionic terrace
sour burrow
But yes. If they don't set our expectations before pushing the PTR, due to the negative climate, I think it would be... unwise. That's why I'm not getting hopes up until next week.
Or, really, until they've announced the actual breakdown Direct.
strange falcon
""unwise""" ==massive dislike bombing for no reason
sour burrow
But will Will Smith smith? The world wants to know. @ionic terrace
sour burrow
I crushed Yoshi's Crafted World, and now I'm at a loss for what to fiddle with next. Nothing's grabbing my interest when it comes to video games.
strange falcon
nah,nintendo games generally dont catch my attention because they're designed to be easy.
which isnt really bad,but not my interests
i'm weighing KH3,DMC5,sekiro and Darksiders 3,on which to start first.
sour burrow
Meanwhile I feel that the overemphasis of visual 'fidelity' tends to drag down the creative aspects of the games you listed. I played and semi-enjoyed the first two Darksiders, for example, but have little-to-no interest in the modern climate for that genre. Same for KH3, it appealed to the younger me but feels unpleasant these days. I actually prefer indie titles with retro style graphics assuming they aren't obsessing on their visual style too much. And I can agree with Nintendo games being a little on the easy side. That's something I enjoy to an extent but also resent at the same time.
But really, it may be that as experienced gamers, we simply understand Nintendo games far more than non-gamers. I've seen 'normal' gamers play New Super Mario for example, and dear lord do they suck...
Meanwhile it's drop dead easy for me even all the way at the end of the game.
strange falcon
oh,i actually am not bothered by "visual fidelity" in games,
i often cringe at people that refuse to play some games because "muh graphics"
i'm in the process of finishing hollow knight atm on my laptop when i have free time at uni :p
coming from a place in the past where i had a shitty pc,and having to play on low graphics,i play for the gameplay mainly :P.
outer hinge
Story grabs me
languid yoke
when I'm in a conversation with someone and they just say the word "graphics" my brain shuts off because I already know, they are a lost cause
sour burrow
I'm not bothered by it existing, I'm bothered by the emphasis on it. ... Ah, you mean in that direction. Hmm, Hollow Knight wasn't one I enjoyed, compared to others like La Mulana 2, Owlboy, Iconoclasts, Ori, Messenger ... and there's another one that was semi-recent that I'm forgetting.
LOL Yes, story is vital to me. It's a shame how flawed the gaming medium is at its core, in terms of how it conflicts with the concept of 'story'...
Ah right, CrossCode. That's the one I was thinking of, thought it's not a Metroidvania.
strange falcon
i remember myself as a kid back in wrath,trying to raid and having bluescreens when the fights got too intense 👌 having the priest leap of faith me away from the particle effects to save my pc,having my best friend log in to my account to complete my dalaran quests because my shitty pc would straight up crash anytime i tried to get up in there
sour burrow
I remember staring into the corner and spamming lifebloom as a resto druid in Karazhan...
strange falcon
which eventually led to my account being stolen,when i rolled 100 need roll on blue proto drake(from utgarde pinnacle) in a random hc
and people were very jealous
and i didnt have anywhere CLOSE enough money to buy flying
good times bois
meager zodiac
It’s boring waiting, and each minute makes it more unlikely we will have to wait until next week
dense plover
if you want to kill time you could always log in
then when the server shutdown happens, if it happens, you can be the first to tell everyone
pulsar iris
well you know what Mak? you can't blame peach this time. because we decided it is your fault for not having a build yet
dense plover
theyre literally still at work
the fuck is with you people
how hard is this to get
its 3pm PST right now
theyre at work for minimum 3 more hours
lone marten
Different time zones u dummies
dense plover
it takes about 20min to deploy ptr
and we have had builds on friday night go out at 10pm PST
its rare
but it happens
we even rarely get weekend builds
lone marten
^
zealous basalt
Hue hue
ionic terrace
I just personally have this feeling it won't be today. Feel free to point and laugh if i'm wrong. 😄
tropic trail
I go for next week
modern axle
I'm hoping tonight 😄 however I'll happily wait till next week if thats the case, patience is key, it will be rewarding when it does come out 😛
uncut vault
man, I wish I had done the crucible quests on someone other than my hunter
Im excited to see what the gift might do, but not while looking like this
upper lantern
well. Hoping for tuesday now
dense plover
its only 4pm PST
strange falcon
@uncut vault you can get someone to remove the eye from your head
i know it's brother pike on ally
unborn glacier
Wait, the quest is live now?
uncut vault
nah, on PTR
Im waiting for nazjatar to open, because thats where it will probably be relevant beyond one NPC in the capitol saying something to you
tropic trail
so did you checked some npcs on the ptr already?
like sylvanas and anduin?
with that eye?
uncut vault
Yes, nothing happens
night swift
Unless they’re hiding dialogue
mystic heart
@dense plover do u check servers? 3 offline only?
terse patrol
😦
zealous basalt
y u do dis
dense plover
and again they have done weekend builds
terse patrol
why do they keep taunting us
zealous basalt
they are starting to hate us
dense plover
i thought they were going to drop it last minute and let us go wild over the weekend
that might still happen
but its unlikely
zealous basalt
they hate honker
terse patrol
“oh heres an 8.2 vendor build haha”
zealous basalt
Then try more